yuriy_workI don't know of it's a good idea, but the rebranding could actually be an opportunity for Kubuntu to match Ubuntu colors, which I always thought made some sense00:05
yuriy_workan aubergine tinted Air could look good00:05
nixternalit will look good getting replaced right away :p00:08
=== jonathan__ is now known as jjesse
=== jonathan_ is now known as jjesse
* NCommander builds a full kdebindings on ARM and has yet to get a segfault ...02:13
NCommanderand I'm at 81% ...02:13
persiaNCommander: What did you change?02:16
persiaOr are you just playing roulette?02:17
NCommanderpersia: the annoying bit? Nothing.02:18
NCommanderpersia: this happened before when I tried to debug it and then I pounded retry and it blew up again, then I forgot about it02:18
=== gatlinAFK is now known as gatlin
persiaAnyone happen to know which package does the compositing for kwin desktop effects?  A user in #ubuntu-devel claims that glxinfo is required, which slipped out of main, which, if true, probably indicates a missing recommends (unless this was intentional).03:27
persiaSarvatt: I just asked your question a moment ago.03:29
* genii waits for NCommander's ARM to blow up extravangtly and spectacularly03:30
NCommandergenii: not yet :-)03:30
=== gatlin is now known as gatlinAFK
yuriypersia: what do you mean "does the compositing"? kwin does its own compositing if i understand it correctly04:08
persiayuriy: Does kwin expect to find glxinfo?04:09
yuriyah is that the question. i don't see why it would, but i have no idea04:09
yuriyhmm nepomuk is using over a gig of ram, plus almost 500M for dbus-daemon :-\04:11
persiaYeah.  If something *does* want glxinfo, it ought be on the CD.04:13
JontheEchidnaKWin definitely does not need glxinfo to do compositing04:18
persiaSarvatt: With that, please file a bug about your issue.04:19
persiaJontheEchidna: Thanks.04:19
* JontheEchidna giggles wobbly windows sans-glxinfo ;-)04:19
Sarvattoh? will do then, I reproduced it 3 seperate boots where it wouldn't let me activate gl compositing until I installed mesa-utils and then it worked properly04:22
Sarvattyeah I grabbed the kdebase-workspace source and it shouldn't need mesa-utils, on the plus side I see I need to submit some patches to to kde to extend these hardcoded gl vendor strings to work for nouveau and gallium in general04:35
=== gatlinAFK is now known as gatlin
gatlinScottK: we spoke yesterday, but did you ever think of something for a novice with C++ experience to do?06:42
gatlinI like Kubuntu, this is to be a labor of love06:42
ScottKgatlin: JontheEchidna or apachelogger would be better people to ask.06:43
gatlinalright, thank you very much06:43
=== gatlin is now known as gatlinAFK
dpmhey Riddell, good morning. I've just seen bug 180994, and I wanted to ask you: is there not a locale for 'sco'? Looking at http://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=tree;f=localedata/locales;hb=HEAD, it seems there isn't. Do you know what the difference between Scots and Scots Gaeilc is (and which code corresponds to each one, if they are different)?09:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 180994 in langpack-locales "Scots cannot be selected" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18099409:58
dpmMy concern is that we seem to have a Scots team in Launchpad, and we're letting people translate into Scots, while these translations won't make it to the distro if there isn't a locale09:58
Riddelldebfx: Scots and Gaelic are entirely different languages, Scots is Germanic while Gaelic is Celtic10:32
RiddellScots is sco, not sure what Gaelic is10:33
RiddellI don't think there's a locale for Scots10:33
debfxdpm: ^10:39
dpmthanks Riddell, debfx10:40
Riddelloh aye, wrong d10:42
RiddellNCommander: how did kdebindings do?10:43
NCommanderRiddell: tuxdavis took over for me, and might have found the cause of the crash10:44
Riddellhmm, another seg fault :( http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40195659/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.kdeedu_4%3A4.4.1-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz10:47
RiddellNCommander: well if you or tuxdavies want a new challenge, there it is10:51
Riddelltuxdavis: ah, just the person for a new challenge http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40195659/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.kdeedu_4%3A4.4.1-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz10:54
Torchcan anyone here confirm that setting the date/time via systemsettings is NOT possible in 9.04 and kde 4.4.1? or the opposite?10:55
Torchi.e., there is no dialog asking for authentication, nothing. just does not work.10:56
tuxdavisThis is the same bug I found in kdebindings, and I believe NCommander found a similar one in another package, the issue resides in the toolchain and not kde10:57
NCommandertuxdavis: did your inline fix work as a workaround?10:59
tuxdavisno it still segfaulted11:00
tuxdavisbasically I first recompiled everything in debug mode, as it was the smokegen part of kdebindings that was segfaulting11:01
tuxdavisThen I re-ran make with VERBOSE=1 to find the exact command, then ran it through gdb11:01
tuxdavisWhen it crashes you can tell gdb to print two values11:01
tuxdavisvalue1 = "print m_session->token_stream->tokens[0].kind" (should print just fine)11:02
tuxdavisvalue2 = "print m_session->token_stream->kind(0)" (crashes with segfault)11:02
tuxdavisthe method for "kind" is "int kind(std::size_t i) {return tokens[i].kind;}"11:03
tuxdavisSince a very similar bug is being found on the same architecture, we've successfully narrowed it down to a bug in the gcc/g++ toolchain11:04
* Riddell hugs tuxdavis 11:08
RiddellTorch: works ok in lucid11:15
TorchRiddell: i'm suspecting sth is either broken after the update to kde 4.4 or on my machine regarding policykit on karmic. hence the question.11:17
Riddellyes it'll be a policykit issue11:17
Riddell"set date and time automatically" is broken on lucid however :(11:17
TorchRiddell: i have no authentication manager on the session bus. i think there should be one, right?11:17
Torch(my understanding of policykit is very limited still)11:17
RiddellTorch: I'm not sure, policykit 0.9 works differently from 1.0, one has it on the system bus the other doesn't11:21
TorchRiddell: yeah, i just noticed lucid has the newer one. works for me too in my vm on lucid.11:22
TorchRiddell: do you happen to know which package on karmic has the auth agent for kde and/or where it's installed?11:23
Torch(i just noticed i was writing 9.04 in my introductory question... should have been 9.10)11:25
Riddellkdelibs and kdebase-workspace both build-dep on polkit11:27
=== Nightrose2 is now known as Nightrose
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
Riddellshtylman_: seen bug 532533 ? seems nasty12:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 532533 in ubiquity "Kubuntu ubiquity crashed after selecting the language" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53253312:17
* Tonio_ is still woried about knetworkmanager...12:24
Tonio_anyone tried to right click on the icon ? crap window with empty lines12:25
Tonio_the same than with left click, but broken12:25
Tonio_am I the only one concerned ?12:25
RiddellTonio_: that's agateau's fault, he's working on solutions12:25
Tonio_Riddell: oh great then :)12:25
RiddellTonio_: one of which was to fix the plasma applet, we need testers for that12:26
Tonio_Riddell: I've contacted upstream about the vpn connections issues12:26
Tonio_Riddell: I can test... I just built a fresh svn snapshot, the plasma applet is completly broken12:26
Tonio_Riddell: where's agateau work ?12:26
Riddellin svn :(12:26
Tonio_Riddell: but yeah, let knm in the background and use the plasma applet would be nice12:27
Tonio_Riddell: ah :'(12:27
Riddellhe's also working on a workaround for the systray applet I believe12:27
Tonio_Riddell: well fresh svn is probably more broken than the current package reguarding to the plasma applet...12:27
Tonio_I hope one day kde will have a decent network manager gui :)12:27
Tonio_Riddell: it's been kde isue forever as far as I can remember...12:28
Tonio_seems we're not that far right now anyway :)12:28
Riddellyes, it's painful12:28
Tonio_Riddell: I'm also concerned about a hudge issue with oxygen window theme12:28
Riddellwhat's that?12:29
Tonio_Riddell: I made several tests and I can confirm it reduced the global plasma/kde FPS from 50% at least....12:29
Tonio_Riddell: it's not very visible with a powerfull network card, but with an old chip it's a nightmare12:29
Tonio_Riddell: I benched all window themes, oxygen is the guilty12:29
Tonio_Riddell: I know changing is out of purpose, but in my case for example12:30
Tonio_I have an intel 4500 HD whose driver is know for medium performances...12:30
Riddellthis is an issue for LTSP?12:30
Tonio_the all effects get slow and not smooth at all as soon as I go with the oxygen windeco12:30
Tonio_Riddell: sure it is12:31
Tonio_Riddell: but also it is an issue with modern laptops, most of them have the same chip than me12:31
sebasTonio_: what's broken about the nm plasmoid?12:31
Riddellmgraesslin may know more about window decorations12:31
Tonio_sebas: it won't display my connections12:31
Tonio_lemme show you12:31
Tonio_sebas: and "I !!! good to see you"12:31
Tonio_sebas: so first issue with current svn is I don't have an icon in the systray,but an empty space...12:32
sebasTonio_: kquitapp knetworkmanager && sleep 3 && qdbus org.kde.kded /kded loadModule networkmanagement12:32
mgraesslinTonio_: yes we have a small performance issue in Oxygen window decoration due to the animations12:32
sebasyou need to load the kded module12:32
Tonio_mgraesslin: yeah :(12:33
Tonio_mgraesslin: I don't get how can a window decoration theme cause this issue anyway...12:33
mgraesslinTonio_: unfortunately it's driver dependent, that's why we didn't notice in beta cycle12:33
Tonio_mgraesslin: any other one works like a charm here12:33
sebasTonio_: http://vizzzion.org/blog/2010/02/tokamak-iv-network-management/ and http://vizzzion.org/blog/2010/02/tokamak-finished/ for background and progress12:33
mgraesslinit's the active/inactive animation12:33
Tonio_mgraesslin: yep that's true, with nvidia you won't get any trouble as I said12:33
Tonio_sebas: looking12:33
mgraesslinin Aurorae it's even worse12:34
Tonio_mgraesslin: I personnaly don't use arora but rekonq so I can't tell about that12:34
mgraesslinTonio_: Aurorae is a windowdeco :-)12:34
Tonio_mgraesslin: but if all modern intel chips are concerned, which seems to be the case, that's a hudge problem for an LTS release...12:34
Tonio_mgraesslin: oh !! ;)12:35
mgraesslinTonio_: it's possible to disable the animations12:35
mgraesslinthat should improve the performance12:35
mgraesslinit's unfortunately a hidden option12:35
Tonio__sebas: indeed that's better with your command :)12:36
Tonio__sebas: still no icon in the systray anyway, but that's really better :)12:36
Tonio__sebas: well I just lack a background on the icon it seems12:36
Tonio__sebas: very close to something very nice :)12:37
Tonio__sebas: one thing I noticed also is that it will let me create a vpn connection when I don't have any network-manager vpn plugin installed12:38
Tonio__sebas: is that to be reported as a bug, cause it'll cause a crash, or already in the todo list ?12:39
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
Riddellwhat's different?12:46
davmor2you get a load of ugly stipes down it  I'm assuming it's to do with vm and screen size12:48
Riddellsebas: so knetworkmanager or plasmoid for lucid?12:49
Riddelldavmor2: got a screenshot?12:49
sebasplasmoid IMO12:49
Riddellsebas: oh really, that's not what I expected12:49
sebaswe're || that close now :)12:49
davmor2Riddell: I'll grab you one12:49
Tonio__that's good to read12:49
sebasActually, I think it's a good time to start testing, I just put in the last bigger UI changes last night12:49
sebasreminds me ... I still have uncommitted code12:50
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
Tonio_sebas: I'll perform many tests and will give you feedback12:50
sebasTonio_: I haven't tested VPN yet, that's next on my list12:50
Tonio_sebas: good point is that I can test vpn pptp and openvpn too12:50
RiddellTonio_: are you able to make us a package to put in kubuntu experimental PPA?12:51
Tonio_sebas: from my experience, it works with pptp but crashes, and fails with openvon12:51
Tonio_Riddell: I have the package ready12:51
Tonio_Riddell: also do we want qdbusfornm ?12:51
RiddellI think we do yes, we have it currently12:52
apacheloggergatlinAFK: things to do ... that entirely depends on if you want to do something in c++ only12:52
RiddellTonio_: able to throw your package into ppa:kubuntu-ppa/experimental ?12:52
Tonio_yeah but for some reas the patch won't apply, look like topgit is broken, misses apply paatches directive12:52
sebasTonio_: even better, if you can give me backtraces, I can probably fix that12:52
Tonio_Riddell: I'll fix the package for the patch then and will push it12:52
Tonio_sebas: sure12:52
sebasI need to set up a VPN here actually12:52
sebasTonio_: also, make sure to always grab the latest from svn12:52
Tonio_Riddell: no promiss to do that today anyway, I have a HUDGE work waiting for me on a broken active directory (thanks MS)12:53
Tonio_sebas: yep12:53
sebascool :)12:53
Tonio_Riddell: as soon as sebas commits I'll try to get the package to work12:53
sebasjust committed :>12:53
Tonio_and upload12:53
Tonio_sebas: perfect12:53
Tonio_Riddell: any idea how can I test debian patches with topgit ?12:57
davmor2Riddell: http://www.davmor2.co.uk/kub-ins.png12:57
Tonio_aka like fakeroot debian/rules patches or something ?12:57
* Tonio_ is tired of the 1 millions way to get patches to apply... and hates quilt12:57
apacheloggerthere are only too? :P12:58
Tonio_apachelogger: hum, not my opinion ;)12:59
apacheloggerrules apply-patches or something and manually12:59
apacheloggermy pet is super big on the screen12:59
Tonio_fakeroot debian/rules apply-patches doesn't work13:00
apacheloggerthen it was some other name13:00
Tonio_dh: Unknown sequence apply-patches13:00
Tonio_apachelogger: I read the tg2quilt.mk file and couldn't find anything13:00
apacheloggerTonio_: just do it manually via quilt?13:00
Tonio_apachelogger: and I can confirm the paatch won't apply during the build13:00
Tonio_apachelogger: shame on me but I don't know how to do so with debhelper 7 :)13:01
Tonio_apachelogger: any code example ?13:01
Tonio_there's no quilt.mk anymore...13:01
apacheloggerln -s debian/patches; quilt push -a13:01
apacheloggerthat has onthing to do with dh or cdbs :P13:01
apacheloggerman quilt13:01
apacheloggeroh, with above commands you shouldnt forget to rm patches again before building the package13:02
Tonio_apachelogger: I promisses myself I wouldnt't learn quilt13:02
apacheloggerotherwise dpkg-source will start crying ^^13:02
Tonio_apachelogger: have overengeneering apps :)13:02
apacheloggerquilt isn't :P13:03
apacheloggeryou just expect too little of a patch system13:03
apacheloggerwhich makes you shiver in light of quilt's mightyness ^^13:03
RiddellTonio_: I've no idea what topgit is13:05
apacheloggera patch queue manager13:06
Riddelldavmor2: wow, trippy13:06
davmor2I'm assuming not right though13:07
Riddelldavmor2: don't know what causes that I'm afraid13:07
Riddellthe artwork hasn't changed since karmic there13:07
davmor2I'll try on hw some point soon13:07
apacheloggerRiddell: http://repo.or.cz/w/topgit.git?a=blob;f=README13:08
apacheloggerRiddell: AFAIK topgit is like the superior implementatin of quilt, because it uses git and thus is capable of forming more relations than a rather crude quilt patch stack is able to offer13:08
apacheloggerwhich probably makes sense if you do maintain your source in git ^^13:09
davmor2Riddell: and what's with the vmware/vbox logo in the bottom right of the desktop ;)13:09
apacheloggerdavmor2, Riddell: that problem looks graphics driver related13:10
Tonio_apachelogger: then how can I use it to apply patches ?13:10
apacheloggerI have seen similar issues in alpha versions of karmic too13:10
apacheloggerin vbox of course :)13:10
Tonio_apachelogger: if I build the currentl knm package it fails to apply...13:10
davmor2apachelogger: yeah I'm assuming it's because it's on kvm13:10
Tonio_apachelogger: and I don't know how that works and have no time to learn about that ;)13:11
apacheloggerTonio_: quilt push applies a patch13:11
apacheloggerquilt pop unapplies a patch13:11
Tonio_apachelogger: yeah but I don't whant to change the existing packaging :)13:11
apacheloggerthat is the beautiy of quilt13:11
apacheloggerit is like a version control in itself13:11
apacheloggersay you have one patch in your stack13:12
apacheloggerso you run quilt push13:12
apacheloggerthat applies this very patch13:12
apacheloggerbut at the same time it does all sorts of tricky things so that you can go back13:12
apacheloggerso once you run quilt pop13:12
apacheloggerit will restore the original source again13:12
apacheloggerbuilding up on that you could run quilt push -a; quilt pop -a13:12
apacheloggerto just for fun apply all patches and then unapply them again ^^13:13
Tonio_apachelogger: yeah I know quilt is super powerfull, but well... I have enough in my mind with bzr, svn and git :)13:14
apacheloggerI do not see the problem then :P13:14
Tonio_apachelogger: that said, the current knm package is supposed to apply patches according to rules, but it doesn't work13:14
Tonio_could you eventually give a little hepl so that I understand and learn a bit about it ?13:14
apacheloggerTonio_: does it not apply them or does it not apply them successfully?13:14
Tonio_not apply13:14
Tonio_apachelogger: I have this in the rules :13:15
Tonio_ifneq (,$(shell which tg))13:15
Tonio_QUILT_PATCH_DIR := debian/patches13:15
Tonio_include /usr/share/topgit/tg2quilt.mk13:15
Tonio_and it should work I have the binaries there...13:15
Tonio_but they won't apply in pbuilder...13:15
apacheloggeris that a cdbs mk?13:15
apacheloggeralso why do you use topgit to begin with?13:16
Tonio_apachelogger: cause this is how the package is made :)13:16
apacheloggeroh my, exam on introduction lecture to computer science in t-1h13:16
Tonio_apachelogger: I don't want to diff from debian on that point13:17
* apachelogger thinks that he can imagine who introduced that in the debian package ^^13:17
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
apacheloggerthere is no topgit stuff at all -.-13:18
apacheloggerTonio_: is that code from above coming from debian?13:18
Tonio_apachelogger: yeah13:19
Tonio_apachelogger: that's what I said when I compained about the "million ways to patch"13:19
Tonio_apachelogger: so the package is broken, fine... I'll fix13:20
apacheloggerdh --with kde --with-quilt --dbg-package=plasma-widget-networkmanagement-dbg $@13:20
apacheloggerjust add that --with-quilt to the dh command13:20
apacheloggerthen you should be good13:20
Tonio_apachelogger: thanks13:20
Tonio_I have to learn a bit more about dh713:20
apacheloggerwell, that is particularly tricky because the package combines dh7 with source format 313:21
apacheloggerand yet debian decides that using topgit is the way to go13:21
apacheloggerto quote from 300: "this is madness"13:21
Tonio_apachelogger: changing the packaging standards every 6 month is bullshit...13:22
Tonio_apachelogger: leave for a couple of month and you don't know how to package...13:22
Tonio_we had debhelper 5, then 6, then cdbs, then dh713:22
Tonio_and the patch command, then dpatch, then patchsys, then quilt, then topgit13:22
apacheloggerthat is beacause cdbs was intermediate crap just because people could not wait for dh713:22
Tonio_that's crap13:22
apacheloggerTonio_: go tell debian13:23
Tonio_apachelogger: I love stability in the process, that helps a lot, even when the process is not the way to go :)13:23
apacheloggersome people in their team constantly urge for the latest and greatest13:23
Tonio_apachelogger: linux was intermediate just because hurd was not ready :)13:23
apacheloggerTonio_: linux became useful13:23
apacheloggercdbs never was13:23
apacheloggerjust remember how long it took to track the target you would want to hook into if you need something very specific get done13:24
Tonio_apachelogger: yeah I know :)13:24
apacheloggerthat topgit crap there is uesless13:24
Tonio_apachelogger: I don't mind things changing, but too fast can be a problem sometimes :)13:24
Tonio_apachelogger: that's just my point13:25
apacheloggerunless I misunderstand the included .mk it does not hook into the build13:25
apacheloggerbut adds the necessary targets so that you can do it13:25
Tonio_apachelogger: free software is not know for its goodproject management afaik :)13:25
apacheloggerjust like quilt.make13:25
Tonio_apachelogger: kk13:25
apacheloggerI need a new laptop, but I dont know which one to buy ... any suggestions?13:34
Tonio_apachelogger: I'd say the lenovo x200 is the best whatyouget vs what you pay on the market :)13:36
Tonio_apachelogger: and it works perfect with linux13:36
* Tonio_ owns a x301 which is just so lovelly13:36
Tonio_apachelogger: the x200 is almost the same thing, but half the price13:36
Tonio_apachelogger: and can go up to 10 hours on battery... :)13:36
Tonio_12 inches anyway... but with 1440x900 that's acceptable13:37
Tonio_apachelogger: it all depends on own much can you afford to pay...13:37
apachelogger<=2000 EUR13:38
Tonio_well the x200 is all for you then :)13:38
Tonio_x301 is way to expensive (3400 euros infrance, so I bought it in canada)13:38
Tonio_apachelogger: maybe the price is different in your country anyway13:39
* apachelogger gets student discount anyway and gets all whiny when something is too expensive so he gets all sorts of discounts ;)13:39
Tonio_it was only 2500 $cad in canada, which is much more acceptable :)13:39
Tonio_apachelogger: it's still expensive, but it deserves the price, really...13:39
Riddellanyone got ideas for summer of code projects?13:39
apacheloggerideas is the least of problems13:40
Tonio_Riddell: get sflphone/kde to work13:40
apacheloggerTonio_: I really think about getting a laptop with SSD13:41
Tonio_Riddell: most of the code is there but it's not completly finished13:41
apacheloggeror at least HDD + SSD13:41
Riddellapachelogger: what's the most of the problems?13:41
Tonio_Riddell: the gnome sflphone is just a dream when it comes to sip or iax suppoer :)13:41
Tonio_apachelogger: I have 128 ssd here13:41
apacheloggerRiddell: getting me drunk so that I come up with them ;)13:41
Tonio_apachelogger: it's frustrating cause I can't even see the ubuntu logo at boot, or just for 1/2 sec13:41
Tonio_apachelogger: it looks like a bug haha13:41
Tonio_Riddell: wouldn't it be nice since we want a softphone for years ?13:42
apacheloggerRiddell: I suppose we could just take some random people and do lowbudget usability analysis13:42
Tonio_Riddell: oh and samba support in kde, which I didn't have time to complete... lack of time for at least a year now... travelling too much :'(13:42
apacheloggerthough upstream has improved already13:43
RiddellTonio_: finishing sflphone sounds like something for the sflphone project to do13:43
apacheloggerbasically you need to install samba and kde-filsharing and then share setup in dolphin should work from what I saw13:43
ghostcubeehlo 4.4.1 is t3h fast, :) nice made guys13:43
apacheloggerRiddell: make kubuntu boot faster, make kubuntu waste less memory, make qt-language-creator a useful tool13:44
apacheloggerturn software-properties into policykitware and implement kauth support for KDE UI then make it a kcm and embedd into kpk13:45
apacheloggerimprove kpk UI to suite Kubuntus needs13:45
apacheloggerkubuntu-software-center (in c++ pleaese)13:46
apacheloggerubuntu-one-kde (also in c++)13:46
seelekpk needs a lot of love13:46
seelea lot meaning, a whole ui rewrite probably :(13:46
apacheloggerbasically port all the ubuntu stuff13:46
apacheloggerseele: yeah :/13:47
apacheloggerRiddell: following up on the "make kubuntu waste less memory" -> improve performance of ubuntu/kubuntu apps by whatever means possible in python etc.13:48
apacheloggerthat probably also got a nice analysis touch to it, since one would first need to find out where resources get wasted to begin with ;)13:48
apacheloggercreate a kubuntu welcome widget thingy (since KDE seems stalled on that)13:49
apacheloggeron a KDE POV: rewrite khelpcenter13:49
apacheloggerI need to go13:50
apacheloggerexam in 20 minutes13:50
apacheloggerwish me luck!13:50
Riddellgood luck!13:51
ghostcubewow usa says opensource is against the intension of copyright protectet software13:56
davmor2Riddell: also getting tty is open when shutting down13:57
ScottKNote that's a lobbying group.14:00
ScottKRiddell: Just read the backscroll.  Sounds like we need a way to disable the windeco animations on Intel.14:01
RiddellI don't even understand what window decoration animations it includes14:01
ScottKI'm hoping mgraesslin will weigh in and explain the hidden options thingy.14:02
mgraesslinScottK: one moment, I don't know it by heart14:02
ScottKmgraesslin: OK.14:03
Riddellmgraesslin: semi-related, do you know why the blue stripes disappeared?  means you can't distinguish active and inactive windows any more14:03
* ScottK goes to dig up the netbook so he can try it once it's found.14:03
mgraesslinthat's a change in 4.414:03
mgraesslinwe have this new outline active window thing in Oxygen14:03
mgraesslinScottK: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=226634#c714:04
ubottuKDE bug 226634 in general "kwin has effects perfomance regression" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]14:04
mgraesslinthe stripes are AFAIK completely removed14:05
ghostcubeScottK: sure its a lobby group but its stupid to say such things or even take it serious14:05
ghostcubeand piliticans mostly tajke care of lobbyists14:06
ScottKmgraesslin: Thanks.  Looking14:07
ScottKghostcube: That's true of most things lobbyists say on most topics.14:07
ScottKThey get paid to sell a point of view, not be sensible.14:08
ScottKmgraesslin: I have 4.4.1.  Is the promised graphical way to turn off the animations available?14:09
* mgraesslin looks at the UI and can't find an option14:10
ScottKAh, read the rest of the bug.14:10
mgraesslinI'm using branch from today14:10
mgraesslinif it's important for you I'm sure hpereira can come up with a patch14:11
ScottKI notice a definite difference.14:15
ScottKRiddell: I think we need to do something about this.14:15
Tonio_Riddell: uploading to experimental :)14:16
ScottKmgraesslin: I think we need to have a way for users to control this using a gui.  Editing config files is fine for me, but not my Dad.14:16
mgraesslinI agree14:16
ScottKIt's particularly a big deal for netbooks.14:16
RiddellScottK: well I turned it off but i don't see anything different (didn't notice any animations to start with mind)14:16
ScottKRiddell: I don't notice any different look, but it feels faster.14:17
mgraesslinit's noticable when minimizing windows with effects turned on14:17
mgraesslinthe animation laggs14:17
ScottKThe netbooks we're aiming at all have Intel graphics and not lots of spare CPU, so for netbook, this should generally default off.14:18
ScottKIt'd be nice to get a way to default it on for people with appropriate graphics cards.14:18
mgraesslinwhich is difficult14:19
mgraesslinwe had complains for almoast all vendors14:19
ghostcubea widget at srat asking if intel or another cardd ?14:19
ghostcubewont this be possible14:19
mgraesslinI don't understand why we didn't see this issue during beta cycle14:19
Tonio_sebas: I just uploaded on our experimental ppa, including your latest svn commits14:20
Tonio_apachelogger: just to finish about this patching stuff, what is very very strange to me is that according to you patches shouldn't apply...14:24
Tonio_apachelogger: I mean in the current knm package...14:25
Tonio_apachelogger: so technically it should ftbfs, unless the patches are applied in the diff.gz, which seems to be the case...14:25
ScottKsebas: What's the advantage of switching to the plasmoid for knm?14:25
Tonio_apachelogger: that's why I got it wrong on how that worked14:25
Tonio_anyway, having patches applied in diff.gz is... pretty bad I must say :)14:26
Tonio_ScottK: nicer and sexier ? :)14:26
ScottKTonio_: I'll take working as the first priority.14:27
Tonio_ScottK: well imho none of them could be considered "working" right now...14:27
Tonio_ScottK: but yeah, if knetworkmanager works and not the plasmoid, no reason to switch14:28
ScottKSwitching from the plasmoid to the systray application was a good move that helped a lot.  I think we should have a good reason to switch back.14:31
ScottKmgraesslin: We can wait for 4.4.2 for the GUI to control the animations I think, so no distro patch needed, but we do need it in
mgraesslinI just pinged hpereira to ask for news on the string freeze exception14:34
sebasScottK: look at it, and you'll be enlightened14:35
mgraesslinnevertheless I would recommend to change the default settings for the netbook14:35
ScottKsebas: Can it connect to hidden SSIDs?14:35
ScottKmgraesslin: I will.14:35
sebasnot yet, it's on my list though14:35
sebasgood point, I was going to set up an accesspoint for this14:35
ScottKThat's the only thing I've missed in the systray app recently.14:36
ScottKI was at at meeting and needed to get wired internet to install the Gnome nm-applet.14:36
sebaswe have preliminary support for it, just needs fixing up and testing ("just" ;-))14:36
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
ScottKsebas: I can test that when you're ready.  Feel free to ping me.14:36
sebascool :)14:37
ScottKRiddell and mgraesslin: I just uploaded an update to netbook default settings to default that to off.15:02
ScottKNow to $WORK.15:02
Tonio_Riddell: plasma-widget-networkmanagement ready for testing in the ppa, and built15:08
apacheloggerTonio_: why should the build fail if the patches are not applied at all?15:09
apacheloggerTonio_: at least with the current package there is no implication of applied patches to be able to build15:09
TroubleOMG I thought my Dell Mini 9 was just a bit rubbish performance wise, since I've never had anything but Kubuntu and Oxygen, but turns out it really isn't :D15:11
Tonio_apachelogger: cause the patch causes one file installation that is in an *.install file :)15:11
Tonio_apachelogger: no patching -> ftbfs15:11
apacheloggerTonio_: good point15:12
apacheloggeroh wellz15:12
Tonio_apachelogger: and cause the rules didn't apply, it's obvious that the patch was in the dif.gz15:12
apacheloggerTonio_: it's a source 3 package, there should be no diff.gz15:12
apacheloggerit autoconverts all direct changes to quilt patches15:12
Tonio_since untaring the orig and then  copy the debian folder ended up ftbfs :)15:12
jussi01Tonio_: link to the ppa version please?15:12
Tonio_apachelogger: hum, then how does it work if there is no way to apply patches ?15:13
apacheloggermaybe there is hidden magic15:13
Tonio_apachelogger: current knm package in the repo is a mystery for me :)15:13
Tonio_apachelogger: I simply don't get how that works15:13
Tonio_apachelogger: any web page about this source3 thing ?15:15
apacheloggersilly me15:15
Tonio_apachelogger: it means no orig anymore ?15:15
apacheloggerTonio_: source 3 also implies that quilt patches get applied upon dpkg-source -x15:15
Tonio_jussi01: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/experimental15:15
apacheloggerwhich still makes the topgit crap useless, but makes you worry less about that15:15
Tonio_apachelogger: so many changes for me :)15:16
apacheloggerTonio_: it means no diff.gz anymore, but rather a tar.gz that contains the debian/ dir and no direct source changes anymore15:16
jussi01oh in experimental - do I need anything other than the package itsself?15:16
Tonio_apachelogger: so no orig anymore, no patching system, no way to debdiff ?15:16
apacheloggerTonio_: anyhow, that makes me wonder again why you claim that the patch was not applied :P15:16
apacheloggerTonio_: with source format 3 you have:15:16
apachelogger.dsc .debian.tar.gz .orig.tar.gz15:16
apacheloggerwith source format 2 you have:15:16
Tonio_apachelogger: well... get a fresh svn snapshot, copy the debian folder, and try to build the package15:16
apachelogger.dsc .diff.gz .orig.tar.gz15:17
Tonio_apachelogger: it doesn't work15:17
apacheloggerthough with source format 3 you can also have .orig.tar.bz215:17
Tonio_at some points I understand the patched get applied during the source package build right ?15:17
apacheloggerTonio_: yeah, because source format 3 does the patching upon extraction15:17
Tonio_well debuild -S didn't do it15:17
apacheloggerTonio_: so you need the --with-quilt to make it work anyway15:17
Tonio_apachelogger: so how did the current plasma-widget-networkmanagement package in the archive worked out ? :)15:18
Tonio_apachelogger: I get your point, but it should have fail15:18
Tonio_ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I get it15:19
Tonio_apachelogger: it patches upon extraction15:19
Tonio_apachelogger: then something got wrong when I used pdebuild...15:20
Tonio_apachelogger: I understand... I had to patch manually before creating the source package, so that all changes would go in a patch15:20
Tonio_and would be applied15:20
Tonio_apachelogger: it's very very different from what I know...15:21
Tonio_apachelogger: that will be a real pleasure for sysadmins who maintain debian in production environment and have to backport :)15:21
Tonio_apachelogger: retro-compatibility doesn't seem to be important for debian :)15:21
Tonio_I know quite some devs who gave up on debian because of that... I can understand them :)15:22
Tonio_apachelogger: do you have a good link for debian source 3 format and so on ?15:23
shtylman_davmor2: yep... got a bug?15:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 532533 in ubiquity "Kubuntu ubiquity crashed after selecting the language" [Undecided,Confirmed]15:25
Tonio__ScottK, Riddell: hum the plasmoid seems to work pretty decently here :)15:42
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_
QuintasanRiddell: awesome, I will apply for sponsorship though I think it will end up the same way as last year (in queue) :)15:43
shtylman_davmor2: thanks...will look into that15:50
davmor2shtylman_: the ugliness is down to kvm we think, but I've not had time to test on hw yet15:52
ScottKRiddell: Are you covering the release team meeting?16:00
RiddellScottK: yes, company always welcome of course16:01
ScottKRiddell: I'd really like to get some action assigned on Bug #531697.16:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531697 in gcc-4.4 "ICE building qt4-x11 in IA64" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53169716:01
RiddellTonio_: hmm, it's connected to my network but it doesn't list any connections in the left hand pane16:02
Tonio_Riddell: kquitapp knetworkmanager && sleep 3 && qdbus org.kde.kded /kded loadModule networkmanagement16:03
Tonio_Riddell: it has do be done by hand for now...16:03
Tonio_Riddell: you have to use the this kded module instead of knetworkmanager16:03
Tonio_Riddell: http://toniox.org/temp/knm-plasmoid.png16:04
Tonio_Riddell: seems to work pretty well here, except that I can't disconnect anything... I told sebas about that issue16:04
ScottKAny ideas why touching the power button on my netbook now just turns it off instead of bringing up the powerdevel dialogue?16:06
sebasTonio_: I take it VPN works? :)16:07
Tonio_sebas: pptp, yes16:07
Tonio_sebas: vpn, not tested atm16:07
sebasCool. :)16:07
Tonio_sebas: but no way to disconnect, is that a known issue ?16:07
sebasnope, that's why I needed it tested :)16:07
sebasI'll think about something smart for that16:08
Tonio_sebas: okay so here is myfeedback then :)16:08
Tonio_1/ it connects16:08
Tonio_2/ the should be a better way to get the connection status (bold font isn't enough), especially to know what happens, like telling me "running dhcp" on hover for example16:08
Tonio_3/ there should be a way to get a few infos on the connection, like the IP address of something, on hover, don't you think ?16:09
Tonio_4/ and also a way to disconnect :)16:09
Tonio_sebas: I had to go on http://www.whatismyipaddress.com to figure out I was connected :)16:09
sebas2/ that's in the interfaceitem16:10
Tonio_so maybe a little more infos would be nice...16:10
sebas3/ is being worked on, that will show up when you click on an interface16:10
sebasTonio_: we want to keep it accessible for "normal users" as well16:10
sebastry to use it for a while, it shows more than you think16:10
Tonio_sebas: sure16:10
Tonio_sebas: about 3/ the vpn isn't a physical interface, that's the deal16:11
sebas\4 is only a problem for VPN, no?16:11
Tonio_sebas: well yes, cause I can disconnect from an interface, but not a network16:11
sebasProbably we should make VPN a "virtual interface", in the UI sense16:11
Tonio_sebas: yes, this way it would be nice16:11
sebasright, ok, so that's on my radar now as well :)16:11
Tonio_sebas: the point is that the disconnection thing is upon an interface, not a connection16:12
sebasI know :>16:12
Tonio_sebas: do you ? ^-^16:12
sebashehe, I think I do :P16:12
Tonio_well technically there is no reason to check for a virtual interface, there is a physical one16:13
sebasgotta clean up a bit here, K is coming home soon and we're having friends over tonight16:13
Tonio_ppp0, tap0, tun0...16:13
sebasnetworkmanager hacking on the couch == cables + usb interfaces and stuff in the living room16:13
Tonio_there should be a way to list them through network-manager right ?16:13
sebasI'll have a look in how far Solid shows them16:13
Tonio_sebas: ping me if tests needed, I'll  package in the hour and test it for you, and will test openvpn soon too16:14
shtylman_anyone ever tried using krunner in gnome?16:15
=== plopplop is now known as Tonio_
Tonio_sebas: hum, it looks like clicking on an established connection disconnects too... at least works for the wireless, so there are 2 ways to disconnect right ?16:16
Tonio_from the interface and the connection16:16
Riddellarm images have been building for the last 40 minutes, so that's promising16:30
ScottKRiddell: No plasma-netbook autostart after the last updates.  Any idea what that might be?16:31
RiddellScottK: update from what to what?16:31
ScottKUpdated my Lucid system an hour ago for the first time in a couple of days.16:32
Riddellnew kdebase-runtime?16:32
ScottKNew metapackage (kubuntu-netboo) too.16:32
Riddellwe need to think more about that, currently it's an autostart file set to false which ubiquity sets to true on install16:32
Riddellbut that won't work because the upgrade will just overwrite it as you found out16:33
RiddellI think it needs a script to decide if netbook or desktop should run16:33
Riddellbut not run both16:33
RiddellI had hoped that upstream would fix it sensibly but they haven't16:33
Riddellmaybe it should be an xsession16:34
Lex79Riddell: are you working on soprano 2.4.1?16:35
RiddellLex79: no, I think it's for the taking16:36
Lex79ok, I will do16:37
Quintasanapachelogger: ping17:10
Quintasanapachelogger: nvm :P17:12
* Trouble pokes apachelogger17:13
TroubleOh actually don't worry :D17:13
Tonio_sebas: I was just thinking... is it fine to consider disconnection should be done upon an interface or upon a connection ?17:16
Tonio_what I want to kill is a connection, not an interface, right ?17:17
Tonio_sebas: I can get it, but since you want it usable by normal users... it sounds logic to me to disconnect from within a connection, not from an interface...17:17
Tonio_sebas: my 0.02$17:17
Tonio_sebas: seele's opinion would certainly mean a lot more :) I'm not a usability expert at all17:18
maco2hiya Tonio_17:20
Tonio_hey maco2 :) long time no see17:21
Quintasanapachelogger: best advice today was - use boost.random since rand() sucks17:29
Lex79Riddell: soprano https://launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi/+archive/staging/+packages17:33
ScottKSomeone packaging http://michalm.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/k3b-2-0-release-candidate/17:36
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
apacheloggerTonio_: source format 3 is explained in the debian wiki IIRC18:16
JontheEchidnahrmhrm, k3b release candidate18:26
JontheEchidnalol: http://michalm.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/k3b-2-0-release-candidate/#comments18:26
JontheEchidnahe's being a bit hard on Michal, I think.18:27
Quintasanhmm just a simple question, on a dice, you have wall or sides (where numbers are)?18:27
Lex79JontheEchidna: I just uploaded to bzr18:28
Lex79*k3b I mean18:28
JontheEchidnaLex79: need a sponsor?18:28
Quintasanwait, ain't that guy from Poland?18:28
JontheEchidnaQuintasan: Polish are the only people I've seen to use that funny "l" :P18:28
nixternalpolish for the win!18:29
QuintasanGood grief, I didn't know that main k3b dev is from Poland :O18:29
* Quintasan wrote a dice roll simulator using boost::random18:29
JontheEchidnaQuintasan: probably because he's the new main dev18:30
Lex79JontheEchidna: if you have the power there is also soprano in my ppa18:30
JontheEchidnano soprano powars :(18:30
debfxis the brightness osd working for anyone in lucid?18:34
Quintasandebfx: it ain't working18:34
QuintasanSee Todo18:34
Quintasanagateu will know something about it :P18:35
Quintasanapachelogger: http://github.com/Quintasan/coding/blob/01071142841fe35dfa4927effa6107cbd9c752c6/gen.cpp     <-- -the best app so far :P18:43
Quintasanmaybe not best but most useful :P18:45
Lex79it should go to lucid archive, but we are in feauture freeze18:46
* apachelogger falls off chair18:50
JontheEchidnaLex79: K3b uploaded, thanks18:57
debfxQuintasan: I think I know why it doesn't work anymore19:10
debfxthe new hal sets brightness_in_hardware to true for most (?) laptops19:17
debfxpreviously it was only set to true for laptops that emit a brightness change key event on every brightness change19:19
debfxI can modify the patch but then on those laptops the osd is shown even when the brightness is changed by an application19:22
shtylman_Quintasan: what does it do?19:41
shtylman_I can't read the ... whatever language that is :)19:42
shtylman_I wanna say it does a dice roll? ...19:42
shtylman_but who knows...19:42
shtylman_... oh... I see... there is an english description... ok... so now my question is. .. why?!19:44
Quintasanshtylman_: why what? :O19:45
shtylman_why make that?19:45
Quintasana) boredome b) I play DnD with my friend and there is a spell that requires you to roll 346 times (and many other with 100 rolls :P)19:46
shtylman_... *sigh* ...19:46
Quintasanblame apachelogger for it, he said I should get some hands-on experience19:47
Quintasanthough that app ported to windows fails19:49
QuintasanI wonder if it's becuase of time(NULL)19:49
jjesseso if kdm crashes should i leave a crash report someplace or will ubuntu-bug take care of that?19:58
* ghostcube does a mount /Quintasan -t dev /dev/Null && rm -rf /boot/brain/content.list 19:58
Quintasanrm: file content.list not found19:59
Quintasanseriously, what were you expecting, I have been learning c++ for a month only20:00
ghostcubenah i can hardly read it :) i cant code c++20:00
ghostcubewas just joking :)20:01
QuintasanI know, I can take jokes, really :P20:01
maco2jjesse: /var/crash ?20:03
jjessehrmm will have to look20:03
=== gatlin is now known as gatlinAFK
shtylman_so by default when I run debuild it puts the generated files in one directory up... can I cahnge that?20:32
txwikingerhey shtylman_20:37
shtylman_txwikinger: howdy20:40
txwikingershtylman_: Are you allowed to say that in NY?  :D20:41
shtylman_txwikinger: hahaha :)20:41
Lex79JontheEchidna: have you read? http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/03/03/qtwebkit-releases/ this means we'll can split Phonon from Qt in easy mode :)20:42
* shtylman_ shtylman can't wait for kde to move to git... its soo close... I can almost taste it..20:45
geniiHas it ever ben possible at all to run another instance of kde from inside a konsole? An user in #k is claiming 3.x had this but I never heard or saw of it20:49
shtylman_genii: I do something similar with xephyr20:50
shtylman_its opens another xsession or whatnot20:50
shtylman_and from there you can login with kdm again into another kde instance20:50
geniishtylman_: Thanks20:51
QuintasanTime to get rid og that stupid Twitter and Buzz21:13
RiddellLex79: we can split phonon out but not until after lucid, so we still need an upgraded patch to the new phonon21:14
geniiIs 4.4.1 64bit for Lucid OK yet?21:15
apacheloggershtylman_: I dont think you can change the directory where debuild stores its stuff21:19
Riddellshtylman_: kde moving to git depends on there being somewhere to host the git repository21:20
* apachelogger can host it on his netbook ^^21:20
RiddellI'm not sure you get 60GB SD cards yet21:21
* apachelogger got a HDD with 130 GB21:22
Quintasanokay, Buzz deactivated21:30
Quintasannow time for forums21:30
Lex79Riddell: ok21:32
* apachelogger thinks about deriving the dbginstaller from kmessagebox rather than kdialog21:32
nixternalapachelogger: why?21:36
apacheloggerbecause kmessagebox really does everything you need anyway ^^21:36
apacheloggerwell except for progress indication21:37
apacheloggermaybe derive from qwidget and call KMessageBox::foo from there21:37
nixternali always use kdialog as it is what i am used to...was hoping you might shed some light on why kmessagebox would/might be better than kdialog21:38
apacheloggerit's not, it just already implements the necessary stuff in convenience functions21:39
apacheloggeras I see it the installer only needs to lookup the dbg packages, thus indicating progress meanwhile ... if not all packages could be found, ask the user what to do and list the files for which there were no debug packages found ... and finally ask the user whether the found packages shoud be installed, again listing the packages21:41
apacheloggerso we have custom qwidget for progress indication (possibly add cancel button) + KMessageBox::warningYesNoList + KMessageBox::questionYesNoList21:41
apacheloggernixternal: also as I came to realize yesterday, reusing the same dialog for all 3 things is a) dirty b) rather unpleasent because each default button click emits the finished signal, thus ending the dialog21:44
apacheloggerso for proper design you would have to create 3 classes derived from kdialog21:44
nixternalyeah, that is a bit dirty21:44
nixternalyou couldn't just do one class with 3 different functions?21:45
apacheloggeryou could21:45
apacheloggerbut them you also need to reimplement the slots of each used button to prevent them from emitting finished upon click21:45
apacheloggerotherwise your dialog destructs midway through the process because the user agreed to install the packages :)21:46
nixternalhrmm, i see what you are getting at now21:46
apacheloggeroh why21:47
apachelogger<3 KDE21:47
nixternalhttp://api.kde.org/4.x-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kdeui/html/classKDialog.html - heh, you didn't look at all of the inheritance with kdialog?21:48
apacheloggernot all of them21:48
nixternalthat is one of my bookmarks right there :)21:48
apacheloggeralso I did want to opt for the 3-functions but one dialog approach you suggested ;)21:49
apacheloggerand actually some months ago in another project I also wanted to do that (I suppose apturl it was) and I came to the same realization21:49
apacheloggerthough in this particular case one could also opt for a KPageDialog I suppose21:50
nixternalyeah, i have done the one-dialog-per-use as well21:50
apacheloggermuch better with kprogressdialog21:52
* apachelogger drops stupid ui file21:52
apacheloggerdid I already mention that I very much dislike ui files?21:52
apacheloggermaybe it's just me, but it feels like they always get in my way21:53
shtylman_Riddell: yea... im following the mailing list on it... I got the rsync of the svn repo to play around with it ... hopefully some conclusion will be reached soon :/21:55
shtylman_soo question... lets say I have a script which appends to the path... when it is run21:58
shtylman_if I run it again... it will append the same thing to the path..21:58
shtylman_is there a way to prevent that?21:58
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3
* txwikinger wonders why the git repo cannot be hosted where the svn repo is hosted22:00
shtylman_txwikinger: it can... they would just need to install a copy of the gitorious website22:00
shtylman_and then keep that up to date and whatnot22:01
shtylman_which is just more maintenance work22:01
txwikingerwell.. not really22:01
txwikingeryou can have a cron job running the sync22:01
txwikingeror drop svn22:01
shtylman_txwikinger: they can't drop svn cause it will still be used for translations for the time being22:02
* apachelogger cant help thinking that the dbginstaller code is quite the mess22:04
apacheloggermaybe I should not have done a straight port from bash -.-22:05
* Quintasan goes to bed22:54
QuintasanGood night22:54
Riddellyay ARM built http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-live/20100305/23:23
shtylman_Riddell: have any of them actually been tested on arm? or in qemu?23:43
Riddellshtylman_: I saw it running on an arm board last month23:48
Riddellso it does to something23:48
tuxdavisso does anybody know what they did to get around the kdebindings compile issue23:50
Riddelltuxdavis: I disabled smoke from compiling23:52
Riddelltuxdavis: I also removed the kdeedu package from the image23:52
Riddellgetting a proper fix for those segfaulting compiles would obviously be much better23:52
tuxdaviswell as a temporary solution to allow testing of the image this works great23:54
Riddelltuxdavis: are you able to test the images?23:54
tuxdavisBesides from what I gathered during the debug process of kdebindings, the smoke part is used for developing applications using the kde api23:54
tuxdavisI'm downloading it right now23:55
Riddellit's used for making the ruby and c# bindings23:55
RiddellI had to disable those from compiling too23:55
tuxdavisanother thing I'm trying as a possible FIX not workaround is trying the latest svn version of gcc, since there were a lot of fixed bugs on the arm processor23:55

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!