godbykhey, humphreybc: did you figure out the google analytics stuff?00:34
humphreybcnope, never got round to it00:34
godbykah, just to go google.com/analytics and log in.00:34
godbykyou should see the ubuntu-manual.org site there.00:34
humphreybcoh okay, that's easy :)00:34
humphreybcgodbyk, i can see all your sites00:36
godbykoh yeah?00:36
godbykhumphreybc: ah, it's 'cause I made you an admin. guess I'll bump you back to a normal user. :-)00:37
godbyk(not that there anything exciting or secret there!)00:37
godbykI guess you could laugh at how few visitors I have to my site. :)00:37
humphreybcaw it peaked at 283000:37
humphreybcyou do have a lot of sties00:38
godbykmost of those are dead, I think.00:38
jamindayhi all00:40
jamindayhumphreybc: just updating the ToC on our wiki to reflect changes to structure00:40
godbykHey, jaminday00:40
jamindaygodbyk: hi!00:40
jamindayi've taken out chapter 6 and moved all later chapters down a number00:41
jamindayrenamed chapter 9 (now 8) to Troubleshooting and System Maintenance00:41
godbykjaminday: I just created your account and emailed you the details.00:42
jamindaygodbyk: great thanks00:43
godbykAs long as the \labels aren't changed, all the cross-references should update themselves.00:43
godbyk(with the exception of the chapter you removed.. you could add that chapter's label to the new chapter for backwards compatibility, but it's probably better to update the old labels.)00:43
humphreybcjaminday: awesome, thanks00:44
jamindayok. I'll be going through in a sec and updating the files in branch so will try make sure it all works00:44
jamindayhumphreybc: np00:44
jamindayhehe just got an internal server error when trying to save changes to the wiki00:47
jamindaycrisis averted...00:48
jamindayok blueprints should now reflect new structure as well01:05
jamindayif i didn't confuse myself too much in the process01:05
humphreybcchanging blueprints is so confusing!01:09
humphreybcbut the benefit is you'll have like a million karma now jamin, haha01:09
jamindaytell me about it!01:09
jamindaynope only 1173 - still a ways to go before one million01:10
humphreybci've got 28,000 muahaha01:15
* godbyk only has 1539.01:16
godbykI do need to update some of my blueprints, though. :)01:16
Red_HamsterXI'm sure mine's all expired.01:16
godbykIt expires?01:16
Red_HamsterXThe last time I contributed through LaunchPad was in 2005.01:16
Red_HamsterX"Neil Tallim's karma has expired."01:17
humphreybcyeah it does expire01:17
humphreybcRed_HamsterX: https://launchpad.net/~humphreybc01:17
Red_HamsterXAny my activity log is, like, empty. :(01:17
Red_HamsterXI wonder if there was a partial wipe at some point.01:17
Red_HamsterXOr if commits weren't tracked.01:17
Red_HamsterX28.5K over one year?01:18
Red_HamsterXAnd scary.01:18
godbyk'Specification tracking' weighs too heavily, I think.01:19
godbykI have 2x as much karma for that than bzr commits.01:19
humphreybcactually, 28.5k in like 2 months01:20
humphreybcyeah, they have been thinking of doing something called "karma normalisation"01:20
humphreybcif I had 28,000 karma from bzr pushes, then i would have fixed pretty much every bug in ubuntu in 2 months haha01:21
jamindaycan i clarify something...01:22
jamindaydid you definitely want chapter titles to only have capitals on first word?01:22
godbykheh.. I'm getting some translation karma for the LaTeX-related typos in the translations that I fixed.01:22
jamindayso "Troubleshooting and system maintenance"01:22
humphreybcdutchie has the most translation karma haha01:23
humphreybcmore than the translators01:23
jamindayhumphreybc: *bump*01:26
Red_HamsterXI prefer titlees of that form, if that means anything01:28
Red_HamsterXI'm pretty sure that's how I formatted everything when I was editing the Yelp docs (that seem to have evolved into the current manual) back in 2005.01:29
humphreybcjaminday: i think it looks good that way01:31
humphreybcdo you not like it like that?01:31
jamindayi'm cool with that for all subtitles but feels strange not to capitalise chapter headings01:32
jamindaybut its growing on me ;-)01:32
jamindayit's fine just wanted to doublecheck01:33
humphreybcjaminday: do you want to add that to the agenda on saturday?01:33
jamindaynah it sounds like everyone is ok with it. Let's leave it for now and once everything else is done we can always revisit it if necessary.01:34
jamindaywould only take 2 seconds to fix if we wanted to change later01:34
jamindaygodbyk: ok main branch is updated so chapter 6 (well the old chapter 6) is no more and content moved into appropriate chapters01:36
jamindaywriters/editors will need to merge the content appropriately01:36
godbykjaminday: cool. I'm sure the translators will love you. :)01:36
jamindayi know!01:36
jamindayis there a way to check whether anyone references \label{ch:system-maintenance} anywhere?01:37
jamindayas that is now no more01:37
godbykif you run 'make', you can grep the main.log file for 'Warning: Reference" to see the undefined references.01:37
humphreybcoh god the translators...01:39
humphreybcthey're gonna be like WTF HAPPENED TO CHAP 601:40
* humphreybc is having re-heated pizza and coke for breakfast at 2:45pm01:40
jamindaygodbyk: ok will do so now01:40
jamindaygodbyk: hmm... nothing seems to be happening when i click 'make pdf'01:41
humphreybcyou broke it jamin01:41
humphreybcend of the world is nigh01:41
godbykif it doesn't detect any changes, it won't remake the pdf.01:42
godbyktry make clean, then make pdf.01:42
Red_HamsterXjaminday, short of running make, couldn't you just grep for that?01:42
jamindaynope tried make clean first01:43
jamindaynow im getting this http://pastebin.com/ZzyPv4wD01:43
humphreybc(that was the world exploding)01:44
jamindayah hang on01:44
jamindayits ok i shouldn't have renamed the folder01:45
jamindaythe world is safe again01:46
jamindayRed_HamsterX: can you grep through multiple files and folders at once?01:47
Red_HamsterXjaminday, *01:47
Red_HamsterXgrep "string" *01:47
Red_HamsterXgrep "string" dir/*01:47
Red_HamsterXI dunno about recursiveness, though.01:48
jamindayRed_HamsterX: tried it and i get nothing, so either it searched and there are no issues or otherwise it's not searching recursiveley01:49
godbykjaminday: you can:  grep -r "ch:blah-blah" *01:49
jamindayah yes the -r did it01:50
jamindaylooks ok, it's only finding references to \label{ch:system-maintenance} in the old maintenance folder01:50
Red_HamsterXMan pages are helpful. <301:50
jamindayhehe i know - but also easier sometimes to just ask someone smarter than me!01:51
Red_HamsterXUsually, yes.01:51
Red_HamsterXI'm guilty of that, too.01:52
Red_HamsterX(I try to atone by being one of those people whenever possible, though)01:52
humphreybcjamin, that was revision 400 :P01:53
humphreybc400 revisions in 2 months01:53
humphreybcthere is a word for that: insane.01:53
humphreybcoh no it's revision 39901:54
humphreybcnow it's revision 400...01:54
jaminday well... i'm off to have some lunch01:57
humphreybcholy crap our facebook page now has 467 fans. what the heck!01:57
humphreybcokay, catchya later jamin :) thanks for restructuring the manual, good work!01:58
jamindayno worries - before i go, does anyone know what happened to Joe Burgess?02:01
jamindayis he still around?02:01
humphreybcno idea02:01
humphreybci saw him in here a couple of days ago02:01
humphreybcpinged him, but he didn't reply02:01
jamindayhmmm... well he was allocated as writer for (old) chapter 6 but has been pretty quiet02:02
jamindaynot sure if he is planning to keep adding to it02:02
jamindayThat's right, Kelvin Gardner kinda took over02:03
humphreybci'll flick him an email02:04
jamindayyeah ok. Also see reply i just sent to Elan's email. We might need to discuss it further on Saturdays meeting02:06
humphreybcanyone know how hard it is to set up a server to use a wireless USB thing instead of ethernet?02:06
Red_HamsterXDepends on the wireless USB thing.02:07
Red_HamsterXIf it's supported out-of-the-box, probably pretty easy.02:07
jaminday(ok off to lunch for real now)02:07
godbykso the maintenance chapter is dead now?02:10
humphreybcmost of it has been merged to troubleshooting02:10
godbykokay, I'll remove the \input line from main.tex, then.02:11
humphreybcbut some is going to software/packaging02:11
godbykwere any other chapters rearranged or will the order stay the same?02:11
humphreybcorder is staying the same02:11
godbykI think I'm gonna go read a fiction book for a bit.  Feel free to ping me if you need anything. godbyk-android02:17
humphreybcgodbyk, i'm going to be doing a fresh install of lucid either today or tomorrow, so we'll see how the latex install goes02:18
godbykhumphreybc: cool. lemme know.02:19
godbykhumphreybc: also if you can grab a couple screenshots (a full-screen one and a window or smaller one), that'd be handy for testing.02:19
humphreybcyep, that's the first thing i'll do02:19
Red_HamsterXFor testng what?02:20
humphreybcdoes anyone know the particulars of a fresh install with respect to stuff like SSH keys and things?02:20
humphreybctesting screenshot implementation into the document02:20
godbykso I can write some useful commands for inserting them into LaTeX, yeah.02:20
Red_HamsterXCopy ~/.ssh and you should be fine as long as the hostname and username match.02:20
humphreybci'm backing up my home directory02:20
humphreybci'll just copy across certain things02:20
Red_HamsterXAssuming you aren't trying to SSH into the server.02:21
Red_HamsterXIf you are, you'll also need your SSH keys from /etc/.02:21
humphreybcno i just want bzr to work02:21
Red_HamsterXJust the ~/. stuff, then.02:21
humphreybcis chromium now in the lucid repos?02:26
humphreybcand does bookmark sync work in chromium, or just google chrome?02:26
humphreybcthis weekend, on sunday the 7th, i'm going to be having my own "sprint" for writing content02:32
humphreybcbasically just sitting down, turning off IRC, pidgin and gmail, and just writing and editing02:32
humphreybcif anyone wants to join me and make the day just purely writing and editing, that would be awesome02:32
Red_HamsterXI'll put myself at the disposal of the other hackers for the entire weekend.02:33
humphreybcoresome :)02:33
humphreybcRed_HamsterX: i was talking to thumper earlier02:33
humphreybcand he thinks that we can set up one user on launchpad for quickshot02:33
Red_HamsterXSo keep going with the old plan?02:33
humphreybcand he also reckons we could just use one branch02:33
humphreybcyeah, i think that could work. but if you want to run your new plan by thumper and see what he says, that could work02:34
Red_HamsterXI don't see why multiple branches would be needed, anyway.02:34
humphreybcyou guys know more about this sort of stuff than I02:34
Red_HamsterXWhen's he usually active?02:34
humphreybcnow :)02:34
Red_HamsterXOh, he's ative now.02:34
humphreybche's in the same town as me02:34
Red_HamsterXgodbyk suggested that we might be able to just use an HTTP server that supports upload by POST02:35
humphreybcthe main reason i figured we should use different branches is just for the size of the branch02:35
thumperRed_HamsterX: instead of bzr branches?02:35
Red_HamsterXFile + auth credentals + meta-data -> file stored in server-side filesystem.02:35
thumperRed_HamsterX: certainly easier to write02:35
Red_HamsterXYeah. The advantages here would be the lack of a need to have users create a new account and the lack of a need to have them know anything about bzr.02:36
thumperdo you have a server you have access to?02:36
humphreybcgodbyk has a VPS with unlimited bandwidth and unlimited space, apparently02:36
Red_HamsterXI've already written and committed a prototype upload script along with a screencap routine.02:36
thumperRed_HamsterX: sounds like a plan02:36
humphreybcthumper, if we did it this way, it would mean less strain on bzr and launchpad, and we could keep the lp admins happy?02:36
Red_HamsterXI've got a local server and a VPS of my own, but I'm too new to this project to feel comforatble with offering to host such a crucial components.02:36
thumperRed_HamsterX: use the post address as the file identity02:37
thumperRed_HamsterX: also it would allow you to get multiple submissions for a given picture without losing any02:37
Red_HamsterXI think the plan was to add meta-data in the rest of the HTTP form fields.02:37
Red_HamsterXYes, it would. Timestamping + creedentials + meta-data.02:37
thumperyeah, just as easy02:37
Red_HamsterXAnd writing a directory list routine is trivial.02:37
* thumper nods02:38
Red_HamsterXSo we could avoid prompting users to take screencaps of anything already accepted and approved by an admin.02:38
humphreybccool, so, should i go and delete the language branches and just have one "main" branch?02:38
Red_HamsterXDelete or merge?02:38
Red_HamsterXWait until godbyk gets back before doing anything.02:38
thumperwell, to be honest you'll probably want join not merge02:38
Red_HamsterXIt's probably best to make sure everyone's current before proceeding with anything irreversible. =P02:39
humphreybcthere's nothing in any of the branches at lp:ubuntu-manual-screenshots02:39
humphreybcRed_HamsterX: good point :)02:39
Red_HamsterXEr... Yeah, probably.02:39
Red_HamsterXI come from the SVN world.02:39
Red_HamsterXI think in slightly different terms.02:39
thumper+1 on an http server accepting images02:39
thumpereasier to write02:39
thumperless exposure to abuse02:39
thumpereasier to manage02:39
thumperdo it02:39
humphreybcsweet - that's done then02:40
humphreybcgodbyk-android, news02:40
humphreybcwe're going to run with the HTTP server for the images02:41
humphreybcand probably just have one branch instead of multiple branches for each language02:41
godbyk-androidCool. I think that'll be simpler.02:43
humphreybcyup. Red_HamsterX what timezone are you in?02:43
thumperRed_HamsterX: member of CoLoCo?02:44
humphreybchmm. you're probably more likely to see Tommy and Luke than I will be02:44
thumperColorado LoCo group02:57
Red_HamsterXI'm in Calgary, Alberta.03:03
Red_HamsterXWay up in Canada.03:03
godbykOkay, I'm awake and in front of my computer again.12:48
godbykDid I miss anything exciting?12:48
ubuntujenkinsI don't know I have had lectures, this is the most people Ihave seen in the channel12:49
godbykI concur. I think this is the most people I've seen here, too.12:51
=== popey_ is now known as popey
* ubuntujenkins thinks quickly looks so good with the new theme15:22
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: what's quickly?15:22
sebsebseband which theme their are two new ones15:22
ubuntujenkinsthe two new themes are Ambiance and Radiance15:23
ubuntujenkinsquickly is the program we are working on to make taking the screenshots easier15:23
godbykubuntujenkins: ah, you mean quickshot.15:24
ubuntujenkinssorry yes quickshot i get confused between them both15:24
sebsebseb!info quickshot15:25
Red_HamsterXquickly is the thing that makes my Eee cry in diskspace-related pain. =P15:25
Red_HamsterXSo, godbyk, do you want me to cobble together an upload system using PHP or WSGI or something, or would you rather handle that?15:27
Red_HamsterX(Just something primitive. No user interface at all)15:27
godbykRed_HamsterX: Sure, go for it!15:28
godbykIt's a Linux host and runs php5.15:28
godbykIt can also do some python stuff.15:28
godbykbut if you use a lot of packages, I'll have to install 'em manually.15:28
Red_HamsterXNah. I'm thinking PHP will be plenty.15:32
Red_HamsterXI'll develop it on my system first, then give you the code/find someplace to commit it when it's working.15:33
Red_HamsterXI should have a primitive take-screenshot/prompt-user-to-validate-correctness/upload-screenshot/list-remaining-screenshots-to-be-taken routine this weekend.15:34
Red_HamsterXThat should be enough for us to start tying functionality to the GUI.15:34
godbykRed_HamsterX: sounds great!15:42
Red_HamsterX(I'll then work on adding the full-screen functionality in an intuitive manner, though that will be harder to handle, unless we can enforce a consistent resolution on everyone)15:48
Red_HamsterX(I'll need the GUI people for that, though)15:49
godbykI think the GUI guys have been working on setting the resolution automatically.15:56
godbykBut we should provide QuickShot with as much info as possible about the screenshots it's to collect.15:56
godbykThat way we can reduce the workload of the user.15:56
godbykFor instance, if we want them to take a screenshot of, say, the gedit window, we should be able to tell quickshot how to start gedit, where to position it on the screen, what size to set the window to, etc.15:57
godbykthen the user gets to push a 'go ahead and start gedit' button.15:57
godbykand quickshot can detect when gedit is loaded and take the screenshot automatically.15:57
godbyk(ideally, that is.)15:58
Red_HamsterXThat's what I was going to look into after proving that "yes, a screenshot can be captured and uploaded automatically" in code.15:58
Red_HamsterXEven better, load gedit with a sample file and (maybe) jump to a certain point within it.15:58
Red_HamsterXThough that depends on everything captured being GTK and responding to external hints and signals.15:58
godbykbasically we want to script as much as possible so we can get as many screenshots in as little time as possible.15:59
godbykplus, the more we can script, the less chance the user has of misinterpreting what we want.15:59
Red_HamsterXYep. I'm totally with you on that.15:59
Red_HamsterXI'm just not going to get too far ahead of myself yet.16:01
Red_HamsterXI've learned to only take responsibility for what I can deliver by realistic deadlines.16:02
godbykI hear ya.16:02
godbykI haven't jumped into the quickshot dev stuff 'cause I've got my hands full with other aspects of the manual. :)16:02
Red_HamsterXSame reason why, even though I'm pretty sure this is the same project I was with five years ago, I'm not willing to volunteer to edit yet.16:04
Red_HamsterXQuickshot seems to be more needy, attention-wise.16:04
Red_HamsterX(Relative to the skills I possess)16:04
godbykGetting QuickShot up and running will save a lot of time in the long term, that's for sure!16:05
=== 92AAABJ1O is now known as pleia2
godbykHey, thorwil, are you around?17:14
thorwilgodbyk: yes17:14
godbykDo you think we could have icons or something nice for the part pages?17:14
godbykHaving just the words is kinda boring.17:14
godbykMaybe incorporate some elements from the title page into the part pages, too.17:15
thorwilgodbyk: yes, perhaps. i was under the impression that we are not even sure about the margins ;)17:15
godbykthorwil: We're not. I'm playing with layout stuff today.17:16
godbykSo if you've got any complaints, suggestions, etc. feel free to lay 'em on me. :)17:16
thorwilgodbyk: my 2 proposals for A4 (that could be translated for letter) still stand17:18
thorwilgodbyk: anything non-random, practical and harmonious will do ;)17:18
godbykthorwil: understood.17:19
godbykI think I'm also going to drop the TL2007 support today, too.  So even the normal English doc will require TL2009.17:19
thorwili thought that was already the case17:20
godbykit's effectively the case, yeah.17:20
godbykbut I'll be clearing out the TL2007 cruft code.17:21
godbykthorwil: is your page layout sketch in bzr or just on the wiki someplace?17:25
thorwilgodbyk: it's in my branch17:25
thorwilgodbyk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/download/head%3A/layout_a4.svg-20100128134918-yenbpm0zvsr3vg5l-1/layout_a4.svg17:26
godbykah, thanks17:27
ubuntujenkinsdutchie: ping20:05
ubuntujenkinsdo you haev any experince changing lables in python20:06
dutchielabel.set_text I think20:06
ubuntujenkinsbut how do I tell it so set a specific label? cos self.resolutionsuccess.label19.set_label("Remaining: count_down") doesn't work20:06
dutchiedo all of those attributes exist?20:08
dutchieI think it's self.builder.get_item('label19").set_text()20:08
dutchiesomething like that20:09
ubuntujenkinsAttributeError: 'gtk.Dialog' object has no attribute 'label19' is my error but that label is clearly called label 19. resolutionsuccess is that window.20:09
dutchietry with self.builder.get_item20:09
ubuntujenkinstrying now20:09
dutchieah, self.builder.get_object20:10
ubuntujenkinscool that works thanks how do I set it as a variable?20:11
dutchielabel19 = self.builder.get_object('label19')20:12
ubuntujenkinssorry I ment how do I get set_text("Remaining: 'count_down'")) where count_down is a varable?20:12
dutchielook up string interpolation20:12
ubuntujenkinscool thanks :-)20:13
dutchieyou'll have to update it whenever the count_down changes20:13
dutchiealthough you could use a progress bar20:13
ubuntujenkinsa timer is fine as it is only a count down untill you are logged out in 15 seconds20:13
dutchieoh, OK20:14
ubuntujenkinsI am going back to writing once my screen res stuff makes main20:14
dutchiejosh@ubuntu-manual.org set up and ready to go20:27
ubuntujenkinsnice :-)20:29
dakerhi @all20:52
* daker is working on Translations(fr)20:55
* dutchie pokes po4a with a "go faster" stick21:49
godbykdutchie: compiling a translation? or updating the po files?21:54
dutchieupdating translations21:56
dutchiegodbyk: why do you ask?21:57
godbykdutchie: Because if there's a LaTeX error in the untranslated stuff, then po4a-translate goes into an infinite loop while trying to translate the text.21:58
dutchiethat could do with fixing22:00
godbykyeah, it could.22:01
* ubuntujenkins has mad an attempt to do a python countdown back to writing for me I think22:15
dutchieooh, it's done22:26

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