[00:18]  * daker is listening to: Stromae - Wedanceinfrance.blogspot.com - Alors on danse
[00:54]  * daker is listening to: POD - Satellite - Youth of the Nation
[02:21]  * humphreybc is hating on lynx
[02:30] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: hating on lynx???
[02:32] <humphreybc> it's pretty ugly, lots of small bugs and stuff in the UI and theme
[02:32] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: so your hateing lucid
[02:32] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: themewise it sucks
[02:32] <humphreybc> well, not that much. for example it's faster than karmic and it fixed my suspend resume issue
[02:33] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: I don't even get  the new  boot up plymouth theme, not even in the daily build
[02:33] <sebsebseb> in vm
[02:33] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: it's ashame that human has been removed :(
[02:33] <sebsebseb> at least clearlooks is still there though :)
[02:34] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: in #ubuntu+1  I was given this link earlier http://ubuntu-pics.de/bild/45399/hello_kitty_3Jckg6.png
[02:34] <humphreybc> lol
[02:36] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: if GDM looked like that it would actsually be better.  Anyway what are they doing trying to make Ubuntu more girly?  Also  the new GDM theme and default background reminds me a bit of Hannah Montana OS based on Kubuntu.
[02:42] <Red_HamsterX> Hello Kitty theme?! MUST DOWNLOAD!
[02:42] <sebsebseb> Red_HamsterX: no it's a joke edit of  new GDM, you'll see if you go on the link
[02:43] <Red_HamsterX> I did. I need a <sarcasm/> tag.
[02:43] <sebsebseb> Red_HamsterX: oh right ok
[10:06] <rudi> hey guys, the chapter on prefs-hardware
[10:06] <rudi> does it still need content to be written?
[10:06] <rudi> or has it been merged elsewhere?
[10:39] <ubuntujenkins> hello all
[10:42] <humphreybc> hi everyone, i just pushed a new revision with a few screenshots from lucid
[10:42] <humphreybc> they're under lucid-screens in the root directory
[10:45] <rudi> humpherybc, sweet, ill check it out
[10:45] <humphreybc> rudi, i replied to your email too
[10:46] <rudi> oooh, thanks, ill go check it out, humphreybc
[10:46] <rudi> btw
[10:47] <rudi> your internet is like greased lightning
[10:47] <humphreybc> lol
[10:47] <rudi> 600kB/s :O
[10:47] <humphreybc> yeah it is pretty quick sometimes ;)
[10:47] <humphreybc> it got up to 2500 kB/s at one stage
[10:47] <humphreybc> although only for a few seconds
[10:47] <rudi> :(
[10:48] <rudi> here where i am, i am super stoked if it hits 140kB/s sigh
[10:48] <humphreybc> bummer
[10:48] <humphreybc> that sucks :(
[10:48] <humphreybc> so are you going to be at the meeting tomorrow?
[10:48] <humphreybc> in about 9 hours?
[10:48] <rudi> aye, 20:00 UTC
[10:48] <rudi> 22:00 local time
[10:48] <rudi> i'll be there :)
[10:49] <rudi> screenshots look good man
[10:49] <ubuntujenkins> what res did you do the screenshots at humphreybc?
[10:50] <ubuntujenkins> I can't look at the moment
[10:50] <humphreybc> just my normal resolution, 1280x800
[10:50] <humphreybc> i didn't do anything fancy sorry
[10:50] <ubuntujenkins> thats no problem just wondering
[10:50] <humphreybc> but i took some of different things, then cropped them so they're different sizes
[10:50] <humphreybc> there are some small 40kb ones and some large ones of the desktop at about 500kb, and everything in between
[10:50] <ubuntujenkins> cool
[10:51] <ubuntujenkins> I am going to get the automatic log out timmer working for quickshot and then get back to writing
[10:52] <rudi> i'm gonna go find some lunch, i'll be back at some stage this afternoon.
[10:52] <ubuntujenkins> see you in while
[10:53] <humphreybc> kk well it's midnight here so i'm going to get some sleep before the 9am meeting
[10:53] <ubuntujenkins> ok see you then
[11:16] <daker> hi
[11:16] <ubuntujenkins> hello
[11:17] <daker> how r u ?
[11:17] <ubuntujenkins> good thanks u?
[11:18] <daker> fine fine :)
[11:53] <daker> ubuntujenkins, the problem with the countdown in IE is fixed ?
[11:54] <TommyBrunn> daker - what was the problem?
[11:55] <ubuntujenkins> I will have a look I am in windows doing cad at the momet. I didn'nt knwo there was a problem
[11:56] <daker> i dont know, i read it in the TODO list
[11:56] <daker> Countdown timer thing on ubuntu-manual.org needs to be fixed to work in IE properly
[11:57] <TommyBrunn> Oh, I think I know what it is.
[11:57] <TommyBrunn> CSS inconsistencies with margins in IE.
[11:57] <TommyBrunn> The list probably looks weird in IE.
[11:57] <ubuntujenkins> it does I am going to post a print screen
[11:59] <ubuntujenkins> http://imagebin.org/87753 is what it looks like in ie daker
[11:59] <ubuntujenkins> I will be back in a minute going back to ubuntu
[12:00] <TommyBrunn> I would open up IE in Wine and check it out myself, but the last time I did that, IE ate up almost a gig of my ram.
[12:01] <daker> TommyBrunn, hhh
[12:02] <daker> so the problem is not the countdown, it's the list
[12:57] <ubuntujenkins> Red_Hamster I am trying to move my screenshot stuff to one file but at the moment I have self.resolutionchange.hide() how do I make it call those form the quickshot file in the bin folder?
[12:57] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX ping ^^
[13:16] <daker> TommyBrunn, i want to give help in website dev
[13:18] <TommyBrunn> daker - Feel free. It's all in the website/ directory. The countdown-page is in website/countdown/
[13:18] <TommyBrunn> There are two versions of the main page
[13:18] <TommyBrunn> The one directly in website/ and the one in website/wolter-remake/
[13:19] <TommyBrunn> I'm not sure which one were going with, but my vote goes to the wolter-remake.
[13:20] <TommyBrunn> At this time I'm not sure what needs doing, but I'm sure there's a whole lost of IE-related bugs that you could work on if you know how to.
[13:21] <TommyBrunn> *host
[13:22] <daker> the website/ directory http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/share/pages/?
[13:23] <TommyBrunn> Do you have a local copy of the bazaar branch?
[13:23] <daker> no
[13:23] <TommyBrunn> Do you have bazaar installed?
[13:23] <daker> yep
[13:24] <TommyBrunn> Alright, then run bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual
[13:24] <TommyBrunn> That will download the ubuntu-manual branch.
[13:24] <TommyBrunn> In there is the website directory
[13:25] <daker> bazar is gonna make me crasy :)
[13:25] <TommyBrunn> bazaar is great compared to any other version control system I've ever used. THOSE can drive you crazy.
[13:25] <daker> :)
[13:28] <TommyBrunn> Having problems with your connection, ubuntujenkins?
[13:28] <ubuntujenkins> yes I haev no clue why i ckeep getting disconnected automatically
[13:30] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn I have moved all of the screenresolution stuff to a file and imported it into the quickshot file "from quickshot import screenres" but from the screenres file how do I call gui windows?
[13:31] <TommyBrunn> You can't and shouldn't.
[13:32] <ubuntujenkins> I thought you would say that so should I leave it all in the maid file then?
[13:32] <TommyBrunn> Have you commited it to launchpad?
[13:32] <ubuntujenkins> no not yet I can add it to my branch now if you like
[13:33] <TommyBrunn> Yeah, do that. I need to see what it is you're doing to be able to give any good advice.
[13:33] <ubuntujenkins> once i fix the latest error :-)
[13:33] <TommyBrunn> Alright
[13:37] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn its in bzr branch lp:~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-quickshot It has changed so that more people can edit it
[13:38] <TommyBrunn> Checking it out now
[13:38] <TommyBrunn> ls
[13:39] <TommyBrunn> Oops
[13:40] <ubuntujenkins> I find the quickest way to test is change the user in line 127 to my user name and comment out lines 224 227
[13:40] <ubuntujenkins> thnaks
[13:40] <dutchie> heh, tried to click the close button in a screenshot
[13:40] <dutchie> (it didn't work)
[13:40] <TommyBrunn> Where's the screenres module? I can't seem to find it?
[13:40] <TommyBrunn> I don't think this has been updated. Because there's no import statement either.
[13:42] <ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/389598/ is what the screenres module contains but uploading it will break my branch
[13:42] <TommyBrunn> Yeah, because it isn't indented properly.
[13:43] <dutchie> actually, it could be indented properly
[13:43] <dutchie> it's hard to tell
[13:43] <dutchie> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
[13:43] <ubuntujenkins> I don't think there is an indentation error it works fine but stops when it reaches a window call. I am backing a broken branch so you can see the file its self
[13:46] <TommyBrunn> I've spotted a bunch of indentation errors already, one of them being right next to a window call.
[13:46] <TommyBrunn> Every indentation level needs to be 4 spaces.
[13:46] <TommyBrunn> That's what denotes a block.
[13:47] <ubuntujenkins> bzr branch lp:~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-broken
[13:47] <TommyBrunn> You could indent it differently, but it has to be consistent throughout the document.
[13:47] <ubuntujenkins> which lines?
[13:47] <TommyBrunn> 262 and 285 are the ones I remember right now.
[13:48] <TommyBrunn> And pretty much the entire on_ok_changeres method
[13:48] <ubuntujenkins> don't worry once this stuff works I am stopping doing python
[13:48] <daker> TommyBrunn,
[13:48] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~$ sudo bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual
[13:48] <daker> Permission denied (publickey).
[13:48] <daker> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.
[13:49] <ubuntujenkins> you need to add a key to you launchpad use dake
[13:49] <ubuntujenkins> *user
[13:49] <TommyBrunn> You need to be authenticated to branch it? I didn't know that.
[13:49] <dutchie> bzr works over ssh, so you need a key
[13:49] <TommyBrunn> Ah, of course.
[13:50] <daker> here is
[13:50] <daker> https://launchpad.net/~adnane002/+sshkeys
[13:51] <ubuntujenkins> strange have you got the matching one in your .ssh folder?
[13:51] <ubuntujenkins> of the pair that is
[13:52] <daker> i dont know
[13:52] <TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins, in the detectgraphics method, could you walk me through how the if statements are supposed to work?
[13:53] <TommyBrunn> It checks for i915, nouveau and pcieport. If that's true, it opens a subprocess of xrandr. Should the following if statement only be evaluated if the former condition is true, or should it be evaluated either way?
[13:53] <c7p> hello everyone i don't know if i will be present on the today's meeting so i have a question. When will the next important update be made on launchpad ?
[13:53] <ubuntujenkins> only if the former is true
[13:53] <TommyBrunn> Ok, so the elif statement belongs to the first if statement, not the second?
[13:54] <ubuntujenkins> yes
[13:54] <TommyBrunn> Alright. Then I understand.
[13:54] <ubuntujenkins> c7p what do you mean by next important update?
[13:55] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn I just need to get the silly timeout bit working so we can get people testing and then it can make main and I can go back to not writing any python
[13:56] <TommyBrunn> I pushed a version with fixed indentation. I haven't tested anything though, so I have no idea if anything changed.
[13:57] <TommyBrunn> Which is the silly timeout bit?
[13:57] <c7p> by important update i mean the insertion of many strings and also the revision of some strings
[14:05] <ronald_> hello, what time is the meeting?
[14:06] <dutchie> now + 6 hours
[14:06] <ubuntujenkins> sorry I have missed the last 5 minutes of caht my uni internet is failing today
[14:06] <TommyBrunn> (02:56:52 PM) TommyBrunn: I pushed a version with fixed indentation. I haven't tested anything though, so I have no idea if anything changed.
[14:06] <TommyBrunn> (02:57:01 PM) TommyBrunn: Which is the silly timeout bit?
[14:06] <ubuntujenkins> ok which branch? The time out bit that will show in the self.resolutionsuccess.show() window label 19. counting down from 15 to 0. and if it reaches 0 before the user presses the next buton they are loged out
[14:06] <TommyBrunn> luke-quickshot
[14:07] <ubuntujenkins> cool I will get it now
[14:07] <ubuntujenkins> some stuff is there from line 282 but I can't get it working I had allot of help from people as usua
[14:08] <ronald_> dutchie confirm 10 pm Zimbabwean time
[14:08]  * dutchie is unsure what zimbabwean time is
[14:08] <dutchie> UTC+2?
[14:09] <ronald_> GMT +2
[14:09] <dutchie> yes then
[14:09] <TommyBrunn> Alright, ubuntujenkins, I'll have a look at it. Is there anything I need to change in order to be able to test your branch out? Like directory names or anything?
[14:09] <ronald_> thanks, looking forward to be part of the meeting
[14:09] <dutchie> UTC==GMT for all intents and purposes
[14:10] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn no as long as you do quickly run -r the  first tme you will be fine it is all set to point at my branch
[14:10] <TommyBrunn> Alright, goodie.
[14:11] <ubuntujenkins> your resolution should change btw
[14:12] <daker> the website will be Multi-Languages or not ?
[14:13] <godbyk> daker: Hopefully it'll be multilingual, yeah.
[14:14] <daker> oki
[14:15] <daker> TommyBrunn, i got the branch
[14:16] <TommyBrunn> Alright, daker. What were you planning to work on: the countdown page or the main website?
[14:16] <daker> the main website
[14:17] <TommyBrunn> Alright. Then I think you should probably ask someone who actually knows what's going on, which one of the two versions you should be working on. Whom that would be, I can't really say. Benjamin is a safe bet, but he doesn't seem to be here (as it is currently 3am where he lives).
[14:18] <TommyBrunn> What's your level of web design/development experience?
[14:20] <daker> web design we can say 6/10 developement 8/10
[14:23] <daker> TommyBrunn, ?
[14:24] <TommyBrunn> Heh, that's not very detailed, I'm afraid. Anyway, how's your experience dealing with Internet Explorer related CSS quirks?
[14:25] <TommyBrunn> Oh, and I'm going to disappear for a bit. I'm going to try Ubuntujenkins' code.
[14:25] <ubuntujenkins> cool thanks TommyBrunn
[14:37] <daker> TommyBrunn, one question, the top image doesnt appear in FF and opera, it's work in Chrome
[14:38] <TommyBrunn> Huh? What are you talking about? In which version and which page?
[14:38] <daker> the countdown version
[14:40] <TommyBrunn> That's very odd, because it works just fine for me in both Firefox and Epiphany.
[14:41] <daker> i can give you screen
[14:42] <TommyBrunn> Sure.
[14:43] <komsas> godbyk: can you look to this error, I can't to make manual LT version. http://paste.ubuntu.com/389625/
[14:43] <godbyk> komsas: Sure, lemme look.
[14:43] <godbyk> Hmm.. weird.
[14:43] <godbyk> Lemme try.
[14:45] <godbyk> komsas: there's a bug in the main (English) translation.
[14:45] <godbyk> lemme fix it real quick.
[14:46] <komsas> godbyk: thank u :)
[14:49] <TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins - Do you remember how to make the user log out (or if you can revert back to the old resolution, that would be best)?
[14:49] <TommyBrunn> I think I've got the countdown working now.
[14:49] <daker> TommyBrunn, http://imagebin.org/87766
[14:50] <TommyBrunn> What is the image you can't see?
[14:50] <TommyBrunn> Oh, I see!
[14:50] <TommyBrunn> The top margin seems to be missing
[14:50] <daker> yeah
[14:50] <daker> both in FF and Opera
[14:51] <godbyk> komsas: okay, a lot of bugs.  still fixing 'em..
[14:51] <TommyBrunn> I suspect it has something to do with your resolution. What resolution do you currently have set?
[14:51] <daker> 1024x768
[14:52] <daker> screen 15'4
[14:52] <daker> laptop
[14:52] <komsas> godbyk: gl, say when I can push..
[14:52] <TommyBrunn> Wow, that's low. But it does explain why it occurs.
[14:52]  * komsas pull *
[14:53] <godbyk> komsas: I just pushed.
[14:54] <TommyBrunn> See, it's very difficult to align something vertically consistently over several browsers. The technique I've used is to first align it to 50% of the user's viewport, which in your case I'm guessing is around 300px. But as it aligns it by the top, that would put all the content very low. So in order to properly align it, a negative top-margin is added - about half the height of the content.
[14:54] <TommyBrunn> So if the content box is 600px high, the top-margin would be set to -300
[14:54] <TommyBrunn> That would effectively put the box smack dab in the middle.
[14:55] <TommyBrunn> In our case the top margin is -325px
[14:55] <TommyBrunn> Which puts the very top of our website slightly outside of your viewport.
[14:55] <TommyBrunn> My guess is that Chrome probably auto-expands the viewport to accomodate for this content.
[14:56] <daker> TommyBrunn, i'll work on the countdown
[14:56] <daker> oki ?
[14:56] <TommyBrunn> Sure thing. What were you planning to do?
[14:56] <TommyBrunn> There is an IE bug with the list that I would very much appreciate it if you could have a look at.
[14:56] <daker> oki
[14:57] <TommyBrunn> Open it up in Internet Explorer 6-8 and you'll see what the problem is.
[14:57] <daker> oki
[14:57] <daker> second thing i'll fix the bugg with margins
[14:57] <TommyBrunn> The top margin?
[14:57] <daker> yea
[14:57] <daker> h
[14:57] <TommyBrunn> The only way to "fix" it is to set it to a static margin.
[14:58] <TommyBrunn> Which is probably fine, seeing as how it takes up most of anyone's viewport (vertically) anyway.
[14:58] <daker> oki
[14:58] <TommyBrunn> Simply remove the top margin and change the value of "top" in the .center class (line 71) to 100px or so.
[14:59] <daker> oki
[14:59] <komsas> godbyk: now ok ;) do you got and read my lithuanian latex description, it fit your needs?
[15:00] <godbyk> komsas: I haven't seen it. Where's it at?
[15:00] <komsas> I send it to you 2 weaks ago.
[15:00] <godbyk> Ah, let me look.
[15:01] <godbyk> komsas: Yeah, I did get it. Let me see if I've done anything with it yet. :-)
[15:01] <godbyk> (So many translations!)
[15:02] <godbyk> Nope, haven't done anything with it yet.
[15:02] <godbyk> Let me plug that in real quick and see what I can screw up. ;-)
[15:04] <komsas> when you have a time, i see it will be required in the end of this project. :)
[15:06] <TommyBrunn> Are you there, ubuntujenkins?
[15:06] <TommyBrunn> Oh, it seems he isn't.
[15:15] <godbyk> Hey, komsas.. are Roman numerals okay for part numbers?  (Such as: Part I: Getting Started  and  Part II: Advanced.)
[15:16] <komsas> godbyk: yes, we use them :)
[15:16] <godbyk> komsas: Cool. Makes my life easier. :-)
[15:17] <komsas> hehe :)
[15:17] <godbyk> For the "To:" translation, what does your email program use?
[15:17] <godbyk> Where it has, To: godbyk, From: komsas, Subject: translations.
[15:19] <komsas> when we writting leter, in field To: is written "Kam"
[15:20] <godbyk> Okay.
[15:22] <daker> godbyk, question
[15:22] <komsas> but in that link (in letter) where is written "To", they don't translate it. I think it done with the idea.
[15:23] <daker> i can make changes on the code of the countdown version or i have to correct the buggs only
[15:24] <godbyk> komsas: I just emailed you a test PDF with the Lithuanian translations. Can you look over it to make sure everything's okay?
[15:25] <godbyk> daker: What changes would you like to make?
[15:25]  * komsas going to look..
[15:26] <ubuntujenkins> hello I am back what have i missed since 14.35? I have had to go to a lab to get a connection
[15:26] <daker> i would to remove the "dl" "dd" and "dt" and i want to use "div"
[15:27] <godbyk> daker: Sure, go for it!  It's not a real definition list anyway.
[15:27] <daker> oki
[15:27] <daker> tanks
[15:27] <godbyk> daker: You should test all of the countdown code locally before you push though, as that site gets updated automatically every 30 minutes. :)
[15:27] <daker> oki
[15:27] <dutchie> godbyk: you like living on the edge
[15:28] <godbyk> dutchie: heh.. I'm just too lazy to update it manually. :)
[15:29] <ubuntujenkins> If i can't make the meeting due to lack of internet can some one please send my apoligies
[15:36] <komsas> godbyk: it's my mistake (sorry), first letter of all months must be lower case. Traslations okey.
[15:37] <godbyk> komsas: Okay, I can fix that real quick.
[15:38] <godbyk> komsas: I sent you an updated version.
[15:39] <godbyk> komsas: Also, did I get your name and email address correct in the first line of the LDF file?
[15:40] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn sory my internet died I have gone to a lab to get connection. To restore the users previous resolution would be way to hard but to log them out use "gnome-session-save --kill --silent" we may have to add a button to skip automatic resolution change
[15:41] <komsas> godbyk: updated version - okey, my name ad email correct :)
[15:42] <TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins the problem with the countdown seems harder than I first anticipated. I had no problem implementing it in just an interactive terminal, but it just refuses to work when I try it live in Quickshot.
[15:44] <TommyBrunn> We might just have to skip displaying the seconds to the user, and simply say: "If you don't press 'next' in 15 seconds, you will be logged out" and then just log them out if they don't do anything in 15 seconds.
[15:44] <TommyBrunn> My problem is getting the window to update the number.
[15:44] <ubuntujenkins> we may have to.
[15:45] <ubuntujenkins> I am just looking at your changes
[15:45] <godbyk> komsas: I've pushed the LDF. If you compile the ubuntu-manual-lt.pdf again, it should have Lithuanian names for the table of contents, chapter cross-references, index, etc.
[15:45] <godbyk> komsas: Let me know if you notice any problems.
[15:45] <komsas> oh, nice I'm going to try :) thanks
[15:46] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn I have spotted an error that means the quickshot user isn't automatically updating the branch
[15:46] <TommyBrunn> Really? Where?
[15:47] <ubuntujenkins> line 172 should read os.system('cd /home/quickshot/quickshot && bzr pull lp:~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot/luke-quickshot')
[15:48] <TommyBrunn> Oh yeah, you're right.
[15:48] <daker> TommyBrunn, i solved the problem with the margin, it works on FF opera Chrome and IE
[15:49] <TommyBrunn> daker; great. What did you do?
[15:49] <ubuntujenkins> my fault I missed it when I made the permisson change on the branch
[15:49] <daker> tested with IE8
[15:49] <TommyBrunn> Do you mean the margin problem with the top not being shown at low resolutions, or the problem with the list?
[15:50] <daker> the margin problem with the top not being shown at low resolutions
[15:50] <TommyBrunn> And what changes did you make to the .center class?
[15:50] <daker> .center {
[15:50] <daker>    width: 430px;
[15:50] <daker>    height: auto;
[15:50] <daker>    /*position: absolute;
[15:50] <daker>    left: 50%;
[15:50] <daker>    top: 50%;
[15:50] <daker>    margin-left: -215px;
[15:50] <daker>    margin-top: -325px;*/
[15:50] <daker>    margin: -100px auto;
[15:50] <daker>    background-image: url(middlebg.png);
[15:50] <daker> }
[15:51] <TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins can you fix the update problem and push to your branch?
[15:51] <daker> and in you should remove the comment on the top of index.html
[15:51] <TommyBrunn> daker I'm afraid that's not the right way to go about it.
[15:51] <ubuntujenkins> sure  will do so now
[15:51] <daker> TommyBrunn, why
[15:52] <TommyBrunn> Because you're just adding one margin onto another.
[15:52] <TommyBrunn> daker you're right about the margin though. Geany put that in there automatically, and I didn't think of removing it.
[15:54] <TommyBrunn> *comment
[15:54] <TommyBrunn> Not margin
[15:55] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn I have made the change
[15:55] <TommyBrunn> Great.
[15:55] <daker> i tested on my desktop (17')and it's work fine
[15:55] <TommyBrunn> daker Try doing a bzr pull now.
[15:55] <TommyBrunn> How big your screen is doesn't matter.
[15:55] <TommyBrunn> It's the resolution that matters.
[15:56] <TommyBrunn> Either way, I remove the top margin and changed the value of the absolute positioning instead.
[15:56] <TommyBrunn> Now it should work just fine.
[15:58] <daker> how can i pull it ?
[15:58] <komsas> somone know where to mark mistakes in ubuntu manual content, like ``Try Ubuntu without any change to your computer' this string is changed in bootloader to "Try Ubuntu without installing" ?
[15:59] <komsas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual ?
[15:59] <TommyBrunn> daker: you go to the ubuntu-manual directory and run bzr pull
[15:59] <komsas> godbyk or dutchie ?
[16:00] <daker> TommyBrunn, oki
[16:00] <godbyk> komsas: I'm here.
[16:00] <komsas> do you know something about my question?
[16:00] <dutchie> komsas: change it yourself :)
[16:00] <dutchie> this is open source
[16:00] <godbyk> komsas: You can either edit the file yourself or file a bug.
[16:00] <komsas> oh, one of best solutions :)
[16:01] <daker> TommyBrunn, done
[16:01] <TommyBrunn> Alright. Now try that and see how it looks.
[16:01] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn if you type self.count -= 1 in line 234 instead of the line thats there, the window updates the count but it only shows when it reaches 0
[16:02] <TommyBrunn> Oh f*ck, of course it should be self.count. That was dumb of me. xD
[16:02] <komsas> dutchie: I will try to configure bzr, now I can't to push.
[16:02] <komsas> thanks
[16:02] <ubuntujenkins_la> don't worry
[16:02] <TommyBrunn> But yeah, I figured it wouldn't actually update the GUI until it broke out of the loop.
[16:03] <ubuntujenkins_la> which is anoying
[16:03] <TommyBrunn> The only way I know you can solve it is by running a separate thread for the countdown - and I'm certainly not opening that can of worms.
[16:04] <ubuntujenkins_la> rickspencer3 in #ubuntu-app-devel helped me with the original stuff that was there but he isn't arounf
[16:07] <TommyBrunn> I'm off to make dinner.
[16:07] <TommyBrunn> Bye all!
[16:07] <ubuntujenkins_la> ok thanks for your help see you in abit
[16:18] <TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins_la I just had an idea. You could try using a the current time, rather than time.sleep()
[16:18] <TommyBrunn> Something like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/389683/
[16:18]  * TommyBrunn goes back to the kitchen
[16:27]  * ubuntujenkins tries Tommy's suggestion
[16:29] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn no difference i am afraid the window shows at the end and says remaning 1.0728836059e-05 lol
[16:34] <TommyBrunn> Haha, that's what I figured. There is a method in the time module that's called timer. I know that runs in another thread, and it might be easier to use. You might want to look into that.
[16:34] <ubuntujenkins> cool I will look when I have finished desgining this frame
[16:36]  * daker is listening to: David Guetta feat. Kid Kudi - Memories - Enjoystation
[16:53] <ubuntujenkins_la> I am off back home apparently the internet is back
[19:52] <semioticrobotic> are we meeting in here or in ubuntu-meeting?
[19:54] <nisshh> in #ubuntu-meeting in one hour according to dutchie
[19:55] <dutchie> no, it's in 5 minutes
[19:55] <godbyk> nisshh: Actually, it'll be in just a few minutes.
[19:55] <Rudi-> I thought it was at 2000 UCT?
[19:55] <dutchie> #ubuntu-meeting ceases to be free in an hour
[19:55] <godbyk> Rudi-: It is.
[19:55] <Rudi-> which is in about 4/5 minutes
[19:55] <nisshh> oh hehe you lot said an hour, got me all mixed up
[19:55] <dutchie> my fault
[19:55] <dutchie> sorry, I was unclear
[19:56] <semioticrobotic> whew ... thought showed up an hour early!
[19:56] <nisshh> hehe
[19:56] <Rudi-> haha
[19:56] <Rudi-> well :)
[19:56] <nisshh> where the heck is benjamin
[19:57] <Rudi-> it is going to be here? or over at Ubuntu-meeting?
[19:57] <nisshh> it should be here
[19:57] <Rudi-> is jaminday here?
[19:57]  * dutchie thinks that we won't keep it to an hour
[19:57] <nisshh> we will need more than an hour
[19:57]  * dutchie votes in here
[19:57] <nisshh> no
[19:57]  * Rudi- agrees with dutchie
[19:57] <semioticrobotic> here is fine with me
[19:58]  * daker dutchie +1 
[19:58] <nisshh> +1
[19:59] <godbyk> I prefer meetings in here if possible. Means we don't have to worry about going over schedule.
[19:59]  * nisshh agrees with godbyk
[20:00]  * Rudi- agrees with nisshh
[20:01] <nisshh> has anyone been able to get hold of benjamin
[20:02] <godbyk> nisshh: Not yet; I'm trying. :)
[20:02] <nisshh> ok
[20:04]  * Rudi- cannots get hold of benjamin either!
[20:04] <dutchie> it's only 9:00 for him too :)
[20:04] <Rudi-> Seems like jaminday is on his way
[20:04] <nisshh> ok
[20:05] <nisshh> meh its 4am here
[20:05] <Rudi-> its 22:00 here
[20:05] <nisshh> yaya there we go
[20:05] <semioticrobotic> 3 pm here
[20:05] <humphreybc> balsfhoajsf hi everyone :)
[20:05] <Rudi-> nisshh, you are one committed dude
[20:05] <dutchie> are we hanging around for jamin then
[20:05] <thorwil> hi
[20:05] <Ell> hello
[20:05]  * nisshh thanks rudi
[20:05] <Rudi-> hey benjamin
[20:05] <humphreybc> okay should we get this party started?
[20:05] <humphreybc> :)
[20:05] <godbyk> Hey, humphreybc showed up! :)
[20:06] <nisshh> yeeessss
[20:06] <semioticrobotic> let's do this thing
[20:06] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[20:06] <Rudi-> what about jaminday?
[20:06] <nisshh> good turnout this time too
[20:06] <humphreybc> i think he'll show up at some point
[20:06] <Rudi-> sweet
[20:06] <humphreybc> #startmeeting
[20:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 14:06. The chair is humphreybc.
[20:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[20:06] <humphreybc> hehehe
[20:06] <nisshh> hehe good timing
[20:07] <humphreybc> hey jaminday1 we just started
[20:07] <Rudi-> 200t
[20:07] <jaminday1> excellent. Just woke up
[20:07] <humphreybc> so, first thing is a progress report. this is basically "how are we doing?"
[20:07] <nisshh> should we go by chapter?
[20:07] <humphreybc> yep
[20:07] <Rudi-> I guess
[20:07] <humphreybc> that sounds like a good idea
[20:07] <humphreybc> oh does anyone want to take notes?
[20:08] <dutchie> humphreybc: isn't that what MootBot is for
[20:08] <humphreybc> true
[20:08] <humphreybc> okay i'll utilize him more :)
[20:08] <humphreybc> [TOPIC] Progress report by chapter
[20:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Progress report by chapter
[20:08] <humphreybc> so, prologue
[20:08] <dutchie> humphreybc: all IRC bots are female ;)
[20:08] <humphreybc> oh yeah, oops, forgot :)
[20:09] <dutchie> OK, let's get on with it then
[20:09] <dutchie> who's on the prologue?
[20:09] <humphreybc> prologue.. well, i think i've done about 90% of it. all that's missing is a key to commands
[20:09] <humphreybc> yours truly :)
[20:09] <dutchie> could that sort of thing be automated?
[20:09] <jaminday1> And editing needs another once or twice over from me
[20:09] <humphreybc> godbyk?
[20:09] <dutchie> actually, it doesn't need to be
[20:09] <godbyk> What key?
[20:09] <humphreybc> we just need a small list of what this formatting means, what this formatting means, etc
[20:10] <dutchie> "A shell prompt looks like this:"
[20:10] <dutchie> etc
[20:10] <godbyk> Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I can do that.
[20:10] <humphreybc> neat :)
[20:10] <humphreybc> probably just stick it at the end of the prologue
[20:10] <godbyk> It's called 'nomenclature'. :)
[20:10] <humphreybc> well well don't get all fancy on us!
[20:10] <nisshh> hehe
[20:11] <humphreybc> okay so that's all good for chap 1?
[20:11] <Rudi-> its late here:P please don't use too many big words!
[20:11] <humphreybc> wait
[20:11] <humphreybc> prologue
[20:11]  * humphreybc only woke up 8 mins ago, please be kind :)
[20:11]  * semioticrobotic laughs
[20:11] <humphreybc> now, chapter 1. installation. i'm writing that, got most of it finished bar the partitioning
[20:11]  * nisshh says its 4am for him so dont have a sad
[20:12]  * Rudi- pats humpherybc
[20:12] <humphreybc> nisshh: boo!
[20:12] <humphreybc> so I think Rudi is going to work on the partitioning?
[20:12] <Rudi-> I think I am responsible for the partitioning
[20:12] <nisshh> sorry couldnt resist
[20:12] <Rudi-> yea, ok
[20:12] <Rudi-> i'll write that section
[20:12] <Rudi-> :)
[20:12] <humphreybc> sweet
[20:12] <humphreybc> it just needs to be really easy to understand so they don't go and overwrite their vista parition if they want to dual boot...
[20:12] <jaminday1> Is Parry here?
[20:13] <humphreybc> there are some screenshots of the partitioning bit in lucid-screens
[20:13] <Ell> On chapter 1 would it be better to have the 32 bit or 64 bit section from chapter 9 into chapter 1 as new users who dont know which bit to pick at the start can be confusing and its right down at chapter 9 at the current time
[20:13] <humphreybc> jaminday1: i don't think so
[20:13] <Rudi-> ok cool, I'll do it basic like.
[20:13] <jaminday1> Parry is allocated editor for chapter 1 but haven't heard from him for a while
[20:13] <humphreybc> Ell: that's a good point
[20:13] <humphreybc> what do we think?
[20:13] <Rudi-> I'll add in a bit of RED DANGER! Do not edit your partitions if you are not 99% sure of what you are doing?
[20:14] <humphreybc> maybe a quick margin note explaining 64/32?
[20:14] <humphreybc> and then to see more go to chap 9?
[20:14] <dutchie> Rudi-: 100% surely
[20:14] <jaminday1> humphreybc: agreed
[20:14] <dutchie> or 99%, with backups
[20:14] <humphreybc> Rudi: yep, danger danger danger!
[20:14] <semioticrobotic> sure, but the explanation in chapter 9 is already sparse as it is :)
[20:14] <humphreybc> okay so we need to improve the explanation in chap 9
[20:15] <humphreybc> btw everyone join this: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F
[20:15] <semioticrobotic> of course, having 32/64 stuff up front might give us an excuse to add more detail in that area to chap 9
[20:15] <Ell> yes agreed
[20:15] <humphreybc> we need to add this stuff as we go
[20:15] <Rudi-> dutchie, ok i'll make it 100%, but I was never 100% sure when I first started out, will mention backing up NB data and what not
[20:15] <dutchie> definitely mention backups
[20:16] <humphreybc> cool
[20:16] <humphreybc> so apart from that, anyone else have any feedback on the installation chapter?
[20:16] <Rudi-> dutchie, will do so
[20:16] <Rudi-> humpherybc, i had a look at it, its pretty well done
[20:16]  * humphreybc 's lucid mouse pointer keeps changing back to crappy DMZ instead of whiteglass and it's so annoying
[20:17] <humphreybc> cool
[20:17] <humphreybc> well, moving on?
[20:17] <mattatk_> do we still need some screenshots, or are those yet to be added?
[20:17] <humphreybc> chapter 2
[20:18] <humphreybc> mattatk_: those are yet to be added, but there are some test shots in lucid-screens in the branch
[20:18] <humphreybc> so, around your desktop
[20:18] <nisshh> hey ilya
[20:18] <Rudi-> Should all the screenies be the same size and resolution?
[20:18] <jaminday1> IlyaHaykinson: hi
[20:18] <humphreybc> i think 41 people in the room is a record!
[20:18]  * semioticrobotic cheers
[20:18] <humphreybc> Rudi-: yep they will be, that's the job for the quickshot peeps :)
[20:19] <IlyaHaykinson> hi folks. my kid is sick, so i will be in and out of the chat.
[20:19] <ubuntujenkins> Rudi- quicksshot is at the end
[20:19] <Rudi-> humpherybc, ok cool
[20:19] <humphreybc> ah, such a burden, them kids
[20:19] <humphreybc> okay so alistair munro bailed on us, tom is still around but pretty busy with his job
[20:19] <humphreybc> Ben VB is apparently editing it according to the wiki?
[20:20] <jaminday1> yes I think he is still active
[20:20] <humphreybc> okay
[20:20] <jaminday1> sometimes i don't hear anything for a while but they are still working away
[20:20] <humphreybc> so content wise, how complete do we think it is?
[20:20] <Rudi-> the whole thing? or just chapter 2?
[20:20] <humphreybc> chapter 2
[20:21] <Rudi-> hmm
[20:21] <jaminday1> sorry i'm having issues pulling the branch onto my laptop so i can't open any content at the moment
[20:21] <humphreybc> yeah me too
[20:22] <Ell> I think it looks pretty good, it just needs general editing though, like the recent bugs with window buttons going from right to left etc
[20:22] <humphreybc> i don't think i set bzr up properly again after reinstalling lucid
[20:22] <nisshh> meh ssh key?
[20:22] <humphreybc> yeah i've copied that across
[20:22] <humphreybc> sort of works
[20:22] <Ell> and Nautilus File Browser gets called just "File Browser" in ubuntu
[20:22] <nisshh> does it give an error?
[20:22] <humphreybc> Ell: hmm, okay. I think the controls won't stay on the left
[20:22] <ubuntujenkins> Chapter 3?
[20:23] <Ell> okay good aswell then
[20:23] <humphreybc> so chapter 2 just needs some touch ups
[20:23] <godbyk> We should probably add a screenshot of the full desktop to show where the panels, menus, etc. are.
[20:23] <Rudi-> godbyk, good idea
[20:23] <jaminday1> And i need to confirm whether BenVB is still with us as editor
[20:23] <mattatk_> the software center may deserve its own screenshot as well
[20:23] <humphreybc> yep, it will
[20:24] <godbyk> So if someone wants to, they can add more \screenshotTODO's to the chapter.
[20:24] <humphreybc> so feel free to edit the to do list to add some of these things guys
[20:24] <godbyk> (Or anywhere else you think one is required, for the matter.)
[20:24] <humphreybc> we have a soft limit of about 50 screenshots in total for the manual
[20:25] <jaminday1> humphreybc: how many we up to now?
[20:25] <Rudi-> is that to keep the size down?
[20:25] <semioticrobotic> probably a good idea, if we're concerned with overall size
[20:25] <nisshh> i think the manual is already massive without them too
[20:25] <humphreybc> for two reasons, 1. size and 2. x 47 languages = over 2000
[20:25] <nisshh> around 17mb i think currently
[20:25] <humphreybc> 17mb for the PDF?
[20:25] <Rudi-> Agreed, 2000 different screenshots could become nightmarish
[20:25] <semioticrobotic> plus, if we're serious about getting the manual included in L+1 by default, we're going to need a slim file
[20:25] <dutchie> how much can the pdf be optimised for size?
[20:26] <nisshh> no the bzr branch
[20:26] <ubuntujenkins> pdf is at 1.1mb for me
[20:26] <humphreybc> oh yeah the bzr branch is huge cos it has a whole heap of PSD files for the website and stuff
[20:26] <godbyk> There are 34 \screenshotTODOs so far.
[20:26] <humphreybc> nisshh: i'm getting a could not acquire lock bzr error when trying to pull
[20:26] <Rudi-> Hmm, thats quite low
[20:26] <godbyk> The main (English) pdf is 1.2 MB right now (sans screenshots).
[20:27] <humphreybc> yeah but if we want inclusion on the CD we have to aim for <2mb
[20:27] <jaminday1> godbyk: ok so there is a bit of wiggle room for adding more but not much. Someone probably needs to go through and cull some existing ones as well if they aren't necessary
[20:27] <nisshh> humphreybc: thats a common error, try deleting your local branch and re-getting the branch
[20:28] <godbyk> jaminday1: That's the PDF without the screenshots. Adding screenshots will increase the size a bit.
[20:28] <humphreybc> kk
[20:28] <jaminday1> Wow doesn't seem much chance of keeping it under 2mb then?
[20:28] <humphreybc> i guess we'll just have to see how it turns out. we're going to have to be really stringent on what screenshots we decide on
[20:29] <semioticrobotic> I doubt it :-/
[20:29] <semioticrobotic> why the 2mb limit?  did we get that number from someone?
[20:29] <Rudi-> thats what I want to know as well
[20:29] <humphreybc> nope, i just made it up
[20:29] <humphreybc> :)
[20:29] <Rudi-> haha
[20:29] <dutchie> 2.5 is the new arbritary limit then :)
[20:29] <semioticrobotic> ha!  okay then.  jsut wondering
[20:29] <humphreybc> pitivi is like 300kb and even that was a sell to get on the CD
[20:29] <nisshh> just means we really have to keep it small for the cd
[20:30] <humphreybc> i was thinking
[20:30] <humphreybc> we could split up the two halves for the CF
[20:30] <humphreybc> CD*
[20:30] <humphreybc> and just include the first half
[20:30] <Rudi-> hmmm
[20:30] <humphreybc> if they get picky about size
[20:30] <Rudi-> sound like a good idea
[20:30] <Rudi-> *sounds
[20:30] <nisshh> what and second half web based?
[20:30] <ubuntu> hi there guys. I'm translating ubuntu manual, and this string just come up: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt/140/+translate
[20:30] <semioticrobotic> maybe a link in the manual to download the advanced topics.
[20:30] <jaminday1> humphreybc: i think let's just finish it first then see how big it is and decide from there....
[20:31] <humphreybc> yeah, good idea
[20:31] <ubuntu> should i translate it or pass it?
[20:31] <humphreybc> just something to think about
[20:31]  * nisshh agrees with jaminday
[20:31] <Rudi-> [AGREED]
[20:31]  * Rudi- agrees with nisshh and jaminday
[20:31] <humphreybc> dutchie, could you help danyR?
[20:31] <humphreybc> okay so moving on
[20:31] <dutchie> danyR: we're in a meeting now, can I PM?
[20:31] <humphreybc> default applications
[20:31] <danyR> dutchie: yeah :)
[20:32] <humphreybc> i think this chapter is rockin'
[20:32] <ubuntujenkins> I have gwibber to write now it works
[20:32] <jaminday1> yeah it's massive so far!
[20:32] <semioticrobotic> I agree.  Great looking chapter
[20:32] <ubuntujenkins> mattgriffin is doing ubuntu one and rythambox
[20:32] <humphreybc> okay cool
[20:32] <humphreybc> so nothing wrong with it then :)
[20:32] <humphreybc> chapter 4, prefs/hardware
[20:32] <Rudi-> nope
[20:32] <IlyaHaykinson> well on chapter 3
[20:33] <ubuntujenkins> I have quickscan and Brasero to do
[20:33] <dutchie> music store?
[20:33] <IlyaHaykinson> we are not going to include Open Office
[20:33] <Rudi-> I've started writing some stuff for it, (chap 4)
[20:33] <dutchie> is that covered?
[20:33] <mattgriffin_> mattgriffin has music store covered
[20:33] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie mattgriffin_ is doing that I think
[20:33] <IlyaHaykinson> Rudi -- one comment basd on some checkins that i've seen...
[20:33] <IlyaHaykinson> you may want to dumb it down a LOT
[20:33] <IlyaHaykinson> i.e. somewhere you included command line stuff
[20:33] <IlyaHaykinson> assume that the person is a total noob
[20:33] <humphreybc> oh yeah, everyone, no command line stuff before the advanced part
[20:34] <IlyaHaykinson> and even after the command line section, still very little if possible
[20:34] <jaminday1> Yeah we want to stick totally GUI in first half
[20:34] <Rudi-> Oki doki, I'll go through it again
[20:34] <godbyk> The title for chapter 3 always seems weird to me. I don't know what 'default applications' are.  Shouldn't we just call it Applications or Pre-installed Applications?  'Default' is kinda techy.
[20:34] <ubuntujenkins> I haev a bit for vatching dvds
[20:34] <semioticrobotic> gotcha
[20:34] <mattatk_> echo 'ok'
[20:34] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: good point. i would rename as well
[20:34] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: yes, let's change it
[20:34] <IlyaHaykinson> but I wouldn't rename to "Applications"
[20:34] <Ell> Yes agree
[20:34] <semioticrobotic> nice point
[20:34] <IlyaHaykinson> but more like "Working with Ubuntu"
[20:34] <IlyaHaykinson> or soemthing more use-case driven
[20:34] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Yeah, just something friendlier but that still gives someone an idea of what's in the chapter.
[20:34] <ubuntujenkins> I have a command line part for watching dvds to install libdvdcss or what ever it is
[20:35] <IlyaHaykinson> people don't care that there's firefox and there's gwibber. they care that they can browse the web and update their twitter status
[20:35] <godbyk> "Working with Ubuntu" may be too generic.
[20:35] <humphreybc> totally
[20:35] <humphreybc> well we don't want it sounding too cheesy
[20:35] <IlyaHaykinson> well, i really don't think that anyone cares even a little bit that there are such things as applications in the world
[20:35] <jaminday1> What abouyt "Using PRograms"
[20:35] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: don't want what sounding cheesy?  I just joined
[20:35] <IlyaHaykinson> i don't know if people even think there's a common name for programs
[20:35] <semioticrobotic> "Using Ubuntu Applications"?
[20:35] <humphreybc> sebsebseb: title for chapter 3
[20:36] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: the manual should mention how to get the icons back on the right
[20:36] <humphreybc> sebsebseb: lol, don't worry
[20:36] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: maybe even how to enable the icons that are missing in system menu as well :)
[20:36] <godbyk> sebsebseb: I think the icons default to the right, still.
[20:36] <sebsebseb> godbyk: no
[20:36] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk they are not
[20:36] <humphreybc> godbyk, nah they don't but they're not going to keep it that way
[20:36] <humphreybc> !ot
[20:36] <semioticrobotic> icons are going back to the right?
[20:36] <manualbot> Best to keep this channel mainly on topic!
[20:37] <semioticrobotic> oops
[20:37] <IlyaHaykinson> hang on, let me check how Windows handled this.
[20:37] <godbyk> Fair enough. Fill me in afterward. :)
[20:37]  * semioticrobotic blushes
[20:37] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: You can complain as much as you like and other people, but they willl probably still keep them on the left, and in an odd order.
[20:37] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: totally go and check out the windows 98 manual :D
[20:37] <IlyaHaykinson> Windows 95 :)
[20:37] <humphreybc> haha
[20:37] <Rudi-> windows 3.1
[20:37] <humphreybc> even worse xD
[20:37] <Rudi-> :D
[20:37] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: If your going to complain make sure it's on Launchpad and the correct place.
[20:37] <nisshh> hehe
[20:37] <semioticrobotic> I have a Win 3.1 manual right here
[20:37] <humphreybc> i like it how we're going off a windows 95 manual
[20:37] <IlyaHaykinson> chapter titles are: "Welcome", "The Basics", "Beyond the Basics", "Introducing Networks", "The Possibilities", "Appendixes"
[20:37] <humphreybc> cos that's the way to do it...
[20:37] <Rudi-> awesome :)
[20:37] <nisshh> dont make me puke with disgust on my win 3.1 cd...please
[20:38] <IlyaHaykinson> well, MS certainly did a lot more research on good tech writing than we did :)
[20:38]  * semioticrobotic laughs
[20:38] <dutchie> "Appendixes"?
[20:38] <IlyaHaykinson> even in those days
[20:38] <IlyaHaykinson> yup.
[20:38] <jaminday1> hehe
[20:38] <IlyaHaykinson> so, er, i would still go for "Working with Ubuntu"
[20:38] <godbyk> dutchie: No one uses proper Latin endings anymore. :(
[20:38] <humphreybc> okay okay
[20:38] <Rudi-> Why don't we use "The Basics"? as a title/
[20:38] <Rudi-> ?
[20:38] <dutchie> godbyk: :(
[20:38] <mattatk_> or how about just "Ubuntu Applications"?
[20:38] <humphreybc> well the basics would really be chapter 2
[20:39] <godbyk> As long as I'm complaining about titles, I think Part 1 (Start Here) should be renamed to "Getting Started".
[20:39] <humphreybc> and then "beyond the basics" would be chapter 3
[20:39] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: The channel number has gone up quite a bit since I was last in here, why because there's some sort of meeting going on at the moment?
[20:39] <jaminday1> I like "Working with Ubuntu"
[20:39] <godbyk> So that's it's not an imperative statement.
[20:39] <ubuntujenkins> sebsebseb yes
[20:39] <humphreybc> godbyk yeah you can just go and change that now
[20:39] <humphreybc> sebsebseb: yes, there is a meeting
[20:39] <dutchie> no, don't change anything, it'll screw up my commits
[20:39] <dutchie> :(
[20:39] <humphreybc> hahah
[20:39] <semioticrobotic> hahaha
[20:39] <godbyk> dutchie: no worries. I'll do it later.
[20:39] <humphreybc> okay well, wait for josh, and then change it
[20:39] <jaminday1> godbyk: yeah i agree
[20:39] <humphreybc> alright we're going to have to move on
[20:40] <Rudi-> chap4?
[20:40] <humphreybc> because we're 40 mins through the meeting and still on the first damn agenda thing
[20:40] <humphreybc> stick the names on the to do list, we'll have a think about them and change them later today or tomorrow
[20:40] <godbyk> did we settle on a title for chap3 or deal with it later?
[20:40] <godbyk> okay
[20:40] <jaminday1> godbyk: decide later
[20:40] <sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins:  humphreybc ok
[20:41] <humphreybc> sebsebseb: meeting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[20:41] <humphreybc> okay so chap 4
[20:41] <humphreybc> who's writing this now?
[20:41] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: hrm ok
[20:41] <nisshh> no idea
[20:41] <Rudi-> I don't know?
[20:41] <humphreybc> cute
[20:41] <Rudi-> I had a look at it earlier today
[20:41] <godbyk> I'm not sure who's been writing chapter 4 lately, but they should brush up on some LaTeX.  They can email me if they need a tutorial.
[20:41] <Rudi-> and its empty
[20:42] <Rudi-> godbyk
[20:42] <humphreybc> wiki says deon spengler but he disappeared ages ago
[20:42] <Rudi-> its prob me
[20:42] <godbyk> (I had to edit a bunch of LateX-related bugs in ch4 earlier today).
[20:42] <Rudi-> i dont have latex
[20:42] <humphreybc> godbyk, yeah i saw that
[20:42] <Rudi-> just gedit
[20:42] <humphreybc> Rudi-: i have gedit too
[20:42] <ubuntujenkins> I am doing some chapter 4
[20:42] <Rudi-> and I don't have the bandwidth to download it
[20:42] <godbyk> Rudi-: Ah, 'kay. Hit me up after the meeting. I'll fill you in. :)
[20:42] <humphreybc> you just need to know the list of commands to use :)
[20:42] <ubuntujenkins> I have no latex problems I check before up load
[20:42] <Rudi-> godbyk, sorry man. Yes please, some commnands would ben nice :)
[20:43] <godbyk> Rudi-:  no worries. I've got a tutorial around I'll give to ya.
[20:43] <jaminday1> Also see here for list of commands: http://etherpad.com/JqY9NtbB7b
[20:43] <IlyaHaykinson> also, Rudi, instead of Xscan there's a new scanning app in Lucid
[20:43] <humphreybc> "Simple Scan"
[20:43] <humphreybc> it's really quite simple
[20:43] <ubuntujenkins> I was going to write that
[20:43] <nisshh> hehe
[20:43] <IlyaHaykinson> ubuntujenkins: i thought you were going to do printing?
[20:43] <ubuntujenkins> feel free to write it Rudi-
[20:44] <Rudi-> write what?
[20:44] <ubuntujenkins> I can do printing
[20:44] <IlyaHaykinson> ubuntujenkins: i think this would be the highest priority
[20:44] <humphreybc> so the first bit in chapter four with the list of commands, that has to go
[20:44] <godbyk> The hardware identification section may need to be moved or rewritten to use GUI alternatives (if available). We're trying to avoid command-line stuff this early, aren't we?
[20:44] <ubuntujenkins> ok I will do prining thats cool
[20:44] <humphreybc> it can be moved to troubleshooting
[20:44] <Rudi-> Ok, godbyk
[20:44] <humphreybc> something like "how do i know what my hardware is?" etc
[20:45] <Rudi-> is there even a decent GUI app for that stuff?
[20:45] <humphreybc> nah
[20:45] <godbyk> Rudi-: I think there's a GUI for lshw, but I don't recall.
[20:45] <humphreybc> so preferences and hardware is 4 (four!) pages long
[20:45] <Rudi-> I couldn't find one on my default Lucid install
[20:45] <ubuntujenkins> I will get some done this week
[20:45] <dutchie> !info lshw-gtk
[20:45] <humphreybc> we need some manpower for chap 4
[20:45] <IlyaHaykinson> i think that the most important hardware parts are 1) printing, 2) displays, 3) sound, 4) CDs/DVDs, 5) scanning, 6) other topics
[20:45]  * dutchie pokes manualbot 
[20:45] <humphreybc> !manualbotwakup
[20:45] <manualbot> Factoid 'manualbotwakup' not found
[20:45] <IlyaHaykinson> i think we have a start on the displays bit already
[20:46] <IlyaHaykinson> and the other things that ubuntujenkins and Rudi- are working on
[20:46] <dutchie> well, that's the package anyway
[20:46] <humphreybc> okay so chap 4 will make it, just
[20:46] <Ell> I will help out in chapter 4 if any help is needed
[20:46] <ubuntujenkins> I will get printing and brasero done this week
[20:46] <Rudi-> So, what are we going to RE: identifying hardware section?
[20:46] <humphreybc> jaminday1 and IlyaHaykinson: you'll have to keep an eye on it
[20:46] <jaminday1> humphreybc: no problem.
[20:47] <IlyaHaykinson> I recommend that anything that isn't well on its way to completion by end of next week is getting cut
[20:47] <IlyaHaykinson> for this edition
[20:47] <Rudi-> is the content freeze still set for the 21st?
[20:47] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: yeah that's a good idea. we don't want stuff in there that's low quality if it hasn't been edited
[20:47] <humphreybc> Rudi-: yep
[20:47] <jaminday1> IlyaHaykinson: agreed - we can't keep adding new content right up until writing freeze or we will never get there.
[20:48] <IlyaHaykinson> what i recommend is that after the translation freeze we branch
[20:48] <IlyaHaykinson> and start working on the second edition
[20:48] <IlyaHaykinson> that way we keep the momentum going for the english language writers
[20:48] <IlyaHaykinson> even while the manual itself is getting translated and finalized
[20:48] <humphreybc> Rudi-: get rid of the identifying your hardware commands. copy and paste it into a new txt document somewhere and we might put it into the troubleshooting chapter
[20:48] <humphreybc> and IlyaHaykinson that's the best damn idea i've heard
[20:49] <nisshh> ilya: normally the release gets branched from trunk
[20:49] <jaminday1> IlyaHaykinson: yeah that's a great idea
[20:49] <nisshh> not the other way around
[20:49] <godbyk> the section headings in ch4 should be made more consistent.
[20:49] <humphreybc> nisshh: oh well, we're different
[20:50] <Red_HamsterX> So, nisshh, keep everything running in trunk concurrent with all new development, then branch prior to freezing with each future release?
[20:50] <nisshh> hehe, its just easier
[20:50] <godbyk> either a list of hardware devices (singular or plural) or actions (e.g., Burning CDs and DVDs)
[20:50] <Rudi-> humphreybc, oki doki thats fine
[20:50]  * humphreybc has a feeling this is gonna be a long meeting
[20:50] <godbyk> humphreybc: they always are. :)
[20:50]  * ubuntujenkins ditto
[20:50]  * Rudi- agrees
[20:50] <IlyaHaykinson> nisshh: actually, that's true.
[20:50] <semioticrobotic> always long meetings on IRC ... just the nature of the beast
[20:51] <jaminday1> Should we keep moving...
[20:51] <humphreybc> yep
[20:51] <humphreybc> um add the bzr branch stuff to the to do list
[20:51] <nisshh> branch after translation freeze and the then final touches can be made on that branched branch
[20:51] <humphreybc> we'll think about how to work it
[20:51] <nisshh> that way the trunk stays pristine
[20:51] <humphreybc> nisshh: that could work yeah
[20:51] <Rudi-> sounds good to me
[20:52] <dutchie> todo list updated
[20:52] <humphreybc> okay chapter 5. my understanding is that the content is all there, it just needs a bit of a shuffle
[20:52] <nisshh> yea, that way it doesnt get mixed with some 10.04 and some 10.10
[20:52] <humphreybc> nisshh: we'll probably release a second edition for 10.04, or a second impression
[20:52] <nisshh> who is on ch5
[20:52] <humphreybc> wolter wrote most of it but he's buggered off
[20:52] <Rudi-> Offtopic: is gnome 3 scheduled for release in 10.10? or is that still speculation?
[20:53] <jaminday1> humphreybc: permanently?
[20:53] <humphreybc> Rudi-: the ubuntu guys don't want to use gnome 3 if it's going to have gnome shell
[20:53] <nisshh> correct gnome3 is supposed to be in 10.10
[20:53] <humphreybc> jaminday1: not permanently, he's still working on the website now... i think he's just sick of writing
[20:53] <jaminday1> ah ok fair enough
[20:53] <Rudi-> cool, thanks
[20:53] <jaminday1> I can have a crack at adding the upgrading/updating stuff if you like
[20:53] <humphreybc> he's done a good job with chap 5, like all the latex commands are there and stuff
[20:54] <humphreybc> yeah that would be good
[20:54]  * humphreybc is hungry
[20:54]  * Rudi- wants to sleep
[20:54] <humphreybc> lol
[20:54] <jaminday1> fingers crossed i can find the time ;-)
[20:54]  * nisshh is excited
[20:54] <humphreybc> nisshh: ?
[20:54] <IlyaHaykinson> which one is 5?
[20:54] <humphreybc> lol
[20:54] <IlyaHaykinson> installation?
[20:54] <humphreybc> 5 is software/packaging
[20:54] <IlyaHaykinson> packaging?
[20:54] <Rudi-> that is 4
[20:54] <IlyaHaykinson> hm, it needs a good bit of work
[20:55] <IlyaHaykinson> i've been touching it up
[20:55] <IlyaHaykinson> but it needs a lot of TLC still
[20:55] <humphreybc> okay i'll have a look at it today
[20:55] <IlyaHaykinson> i would estimate 4-5 hrs of writing.
[20:55] <godbyk> what's with the 'and packaging' part of the title?
[20:55] <jaminday1> IlyaHaykinson: ok i'll go through and add any content i can
[20:55] <humphreybc> godbyk, true, what on earth is packaging? :{
[20:55] <godbyk> Maybe "Installing and Updating Software" or something?
[20:55] <humphreybc> we need to change that for a new user
[20:56] <nisshh> that should be changed in the title
[20:56] <IlyaHaykinson> godbyk: i like this title
[20:56] <humphreybc> okay so add to the to do list practically change every single title :P
[20:56] <jaminday1> godbyk: yeah
[20:56] <nisshh> hehe
[20:56] <Rudi-> har har har
[20:56] <humphreybc> also, now that i look at "The Command Line" i see it's fairly daunting
[20:56] <Red_HamsterX> Maybe someone could find a non-technical user (parent?) to screen the ToC.
[20:56] <jaminday1> Yep command line needs a lot of work
[20:57] <Red_HamsterX> Parent/liberal arts major.
[20:57] <humphreybc> nisshh: aren't you on command line?
[20:57] <jaminday1> i've been adding a bit as i've been editing but haven't gotten around to finishing
[20:57]  * nisshh reaslises that and is working on it tommorrow morning first thing
[20:57] <humphreybc>  Red_HamsterX haha
[20:57] <humphreybc> cool
[20:57] <jaminday1> nisshh: check out the edits i made as well
[20:57] <humphreybc> we'll leave it in your capable hands then!
[20:57] <nisshh> ok
[20:57] <humphreybc> chapter 7?
[20:57] <humphreybc> security
[20:57] <jaminday1> i saved your original file in the folder then made my changes so we can revert if necessary
[20:57] <humphreybc> content wise, is not looking too bad
[20:57] <KelvinGardiner> needs review by editor
[20:58] <Rudi-> who is the editor for chap 7?
[20:58] <KelvinGardiner> no idea
[20:58] <jaminday1> Rudi-: are you still interested?
[20:58] <humphreybc> no one
[20:58] <humphreybc> ronald_: want to edit a chapter?
[20:58] <Rudi-> what would be required of me?
[20:58] <IlyaHaykinson> i added a lot of edits to the command line chapter recently
[20:58] <IlyaHaykinson> an intro, basically.
[20:59] <nisshh> ilya: iv seen them
[20:59] <IlyaHaykinson> nisshh: nice.
[20:59] <IlyaHaykinson> maybe you can expand the other sections in a similar way?
[20:59] <humphreybc> Rudi you'd just have to go through and fix anything that's too complicated sounding, re word stuff that doesn't make sense, fix spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, punctuation, latex commands and the like
[20:59] <nisshh> yes, ill follow your example
[20:59] <IlyaHaykinson> sweet
[20:59] <Rudi-> humphreybc, ok I'm keen to do it then
[20:59] <jaminday1> humphreybc: thanks you beat me to it -)
[21:00] <jaminday1> ;-)
[21:00] <humphreybc> sweet
[21:00] <humphreybc> chapter 8 troubleshooting
[21:00] <epkugelmass> hi
[21:00] <humphreybc> ah so Elan is on this one
[21:00] <nisshh> hey dude
[21:00] <epkugelmass> so, i'm looking at the sections toward the beginning of the chapter
[21:00] <epkugelmass> which just got moved from old-6
[21:01] <godbyk> I'd put the troubleshooting stuff before the sys maintenance stuff.
[21:01]  * humphreybc just saw the title of that chapter, puke
[21:01] <godbyk> 1. it matches the chapter title
[21:01] <jaminday1> I'm responsible for editing but haven't even really looked at it yet. I'm planning on doing that today though
[21:01] <epkugelmass> thanks
[21:01] <godbyk> 2. it's more likely I'm going to want troubleshooting stuff in a hurry. :-)
[21:01] <jaminday1> Yeah title probably needs a revisit also
[21:01] <humphreybc> "Troubleshooting and system maintenance" that word wraps!
[21:01] <humphreybc> okay so we've decided all the titles need a re think
[21:01] <epkugelmass> what i need to work on is fixing the bug associated with the reinstalling grub section
[21:01] <semioticrobotic> just remove the word "system"?
[21:02] <godbyk> the purging and whatnot may belong in the software chapter anyway.
[21:02] <epkugelmass> and also gui-fying the cleanup my hard drive section
[21:02] <jaminday1> semioticrobotic: yeah that could work
[21:02] <epkugelmass> i dont think computer janitor does that
[21:02] <epkugelmass> at least, it doesnt do that for me
[21:02] <Rudi-> screenie of "computer janitor?"
[21:02] <humphreybc> computer janitor sucks
[21:02] <IlyaHaykinson> is there a good alternative to the computer janitor?
[21:02] <Rudi-> doesn't it just clean packages?
[21:02] <IlyaHaykinson> installable from the software center?
[21:02] <Ell> yes computer jaintor is awful
[21:02] <epkugelmass> i have no idea what it does
[21:03] <humphreybc> yeah and it removes dependencies and .debs too
[21:03] <dutchie> computer janitor definitely needs some love
[21:03] <Rudi-> Sweeper?
[21:03] <epkugelmass> i always use ubuntu tweak to clean my hard drive
[21:03] <danyR> computer janitor as alternatives like bleachbit
[21:03] <humphreybc> ugh!
[21:03] <danyR> and a nice script called ubuncleaner
[21:03] <humphreybc> not bleachbit!
[21:03] <humphreybc> i tried bleachbit once
[21:03] <danyR> ubucleaner*
[21:03] <humphreybc> destroyed my computer
[21:03] <nisshh> *cough*command line*cough*
[21:03]  * Rudi- agrees with nisshh
[21:04] <humphreybc> yeah probably easiest just to chuck them some sudo apt-get clean and autoremove commands
[21:04] <nisshh> hehe
[21:04] <Rudi-> i have a great idea:
[21:04] <Rudi-> sudo rm -rf
[21:04] <Rudi-> :) nice clean pc
[21:04] <humphreybc> sudo rm -rf /
[21:04] <humphreybc> O.o
[21:04] <dutchie> that doesn't actually work
[21:04] <danyR> computer-janitor also does that. removes every .deb package you've installed by yourself
[21:04] <dutchie> try it
[21:04] <jaminday1> cool i'll try that now...
[21:04] <humphreybc> dutchie: after you
[21:04] <nisshh> wow, really? holy moly
[21:04] <dutchie> josh@rigel:~$ sudo rm -rf /
[21:04] <dutchie> [sudo] password for josh:
[21:04] <dutchie> rm: cannot remove root directory `/'
[21:04] <nisshh> that is terrible
[21:04] <IlyaHaykinson> oh, wait, synaptic has a view by status
[21:05] <dutchie> that took some bravery ;)
[21:05] <jaminday1> hehe
[21:05] <humphreybc> wow
[21:05] <humphreybc> that's cool
[21:05] <nisshh> damn i love kde 4.4.1
[21:05] <IlyaHaykinson> one of those statuses is "installed (autoremovable)" which i think is the same thing as what gets removed with autoremove
[21:05] <epkugelmass> ok, so it's a agreed that i'll get rid of the computer janitor stuff
[21:05] <tacantara> Sorry I'm late.  Did I miss anything?  ;)
[21:05] <danyR> what i was talking about: http://opendesktop.org/content/show.php/Ubucleaner?content=71529
[21:05] <humphreybc> yeah computer janitor is a pain in the butt
[21:05] <jaminday1> tacantara: heya
[21:05] <humphreybc> tacantara: heh, we're still on the first thing in the agenda
[21:06] <humphreybc> just going over the chapters
[21:06] <humphreybc> danyR: in the repos?
[21:06] <jaminday1> check out todo list for things we've added http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F!
[21:06] <epkugelmass> besides that, i just need to fix that bug and rearrange the chapte
[21:06] <epkugelmass> any other thoughts?
[21:06] <humphreybc> if it's not in the repos then we can't use it
[21:06] <humphreybc> epkugelmass: nah it looks good. you might have some stuff coming your way from other chapters
[21:07] <danyR> humphreybc: it's a 25 line shell script
[21:07] <jaminday1> yeah do we need another writer to help out with the new stuff in that chapter?
[21:07] <humphreybc> "Remove every kernel except the one you are using"
[21:07] <epkugelmass> humphreybc,  thanks. just let me know what you need
[21:07] <humphreybc> that sucks!
[21:07] <humphreybc> jaminday1: if we've got one to spare, sure
[21:08] <jaminday1> anyone want to put up their hand?
[21:08] <danyR> humphreybc: you can edit it. but it really works well, and has a *nice* interface (don't know if nice is possible to use when talking about command line interfaces)
[21:08] <humphreybc> yeah
[21:08] <Rudi-> cli is sexy!
[21:09] <humphreybc> i think by the time we tell them to go download it and run it we could just tell them a few commands ourselves?
[21:09] <jaminday1> epkugelmass: how are you feeling with your chapter - do you want someone to help out with the new stuff we moved into it or are you okay?
[21:09] <humphreybc> and besides, we don't really want to be reliant on an external application/script
[21:09] <humphreybc> danyR: thanks for the suggestion though :)
[21:09] <danyR> yeah. sudo apt-get autoremove --purge && sudo apt-get autoclean
[21:09] <epkugelmass> jaminday1, I would appreciate help
[21:09] <danyR> it's quite a good cleaning, in fact
[21:10] <epkugelmass> I had planned to finish the chapter last week
[21:10] <jaminday1> ok guys can we stay on topic
[21:10] <IlyaHaykinson> alright, i've gotta go. some quick things before i go idle for a while:  a) i'm going through and trying to expand some people's chapters. please don't take offense -- if you disagree, feel free to revert or edit my changes.  2) i will be going through and fixing up all the GUI usage terms soon, as per the writing presentation and the GNOME guidelines.
[21:10] <epkugelmass> b/c I'm dealing with midterms now
[21:10] <epkugelmass> but it looks like my work is not yet done...
[21:10] <IlyaHaykinson> c) would prefer if godbyk can add some spacing between paragraphs. they're too close together now.
[21:10] <IlyaHaykinson> ok, l8r folks.
[21:10] <semioticrobotic> later!
[21:10] <Rudi-> bye bye
[21:10] <ubuntujenkins> later
[21:10] <jaminday1> IlyaHaykinson: see ya
[21:10] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: The whole line spacing will be increased a titch.
[21:11] <humphreybc> godbyk are you playing around with the book format atm?
[21:11] <jaminday1> epkugelmass: if we can't get anyone else i'll try and jump in to help write a bit
[21:11] <epkugelmass> jaminday1, I appreciate it.
[21:11] <godbyk> humphreybc: I'm starting to, yeah. Though I keep getting distracted. :)
[21:12] <jaminday1> so... Chapter 9?
[21:12] <semioticrobotic> okay
[21:12] <semioticrobotic> I have a few items
[21:12] <humphreybc> and just lastly, chapter 9: first half is pretty sweet, might need some TLC, second half needs to be finished but i'll do that today. actually, i was thinking we could drop the extra applications bit. for a few reasons, 1) software center now has a "featured" section and star ratings, 2) each app will require a screenshot which takes up space, 3) it's personal opinion what apps we like and 4) it takes up some more space
[21:12] <jaminday1> humphreybc: yep agreed with all of the above
[21:13] <humphreybc> okay, extra apps: bye bye
[21:13] <Ell> yes I agree
[21:13] <Rudi-> [AGREED]
[21:13] <ubuntujenkins> fine with me
[21:13] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc: Okay, well, that saves me a bit of time during tomorow's "writing push"
[21:13] <semioticrobotic> ha!
[21:13] <Rudi-> !agreed
[21:13] <manualbot> Factoid 'agreed' not found
[21:13] <humphreybc> heh
[21:13] <semioticrobotic> I can make those changes this evening
[21:13] <epkugelmass> godbyk, can i pm you with a latex question?
[21:13] <humphreybc> okay finally, moving on!
[21:13] <godbyk> epkugelmass: sure!
[21:13] <humphreybc> catching up on written content, well, we've already covered that
[21:14] <danyR> humphreybc: at least refer to that featured section in USC
[21:14] <semioticrobotic> Id say so!
[21:14] <jaminday1> humphreybc: can we jump to anything really important cos i'll have to go soon as well!
[21:14] <humphreybc> danyR: yeah we will
[21:14] <humphreybc> kk
[21:14] <jaminday1> New dates for freezes?
[21:14] <nisshh> yes, i need to get some sleep too, so maybe we prioritize the agenda
[21:14] <humphreybc> most important things are probably final title page / new freeze dates
[21:14] <semioticrobotic> agreed ... I'll need to leave in about five minutes, too
[21:14] <humphreybc> the new freeze dates are 21st march for content, 31st march for writing
[21:15] <semioticrobotic> gotcha
[21:15] <humphreybc> content - ie, new sections and stuff
[21:15] <humphreybc> the writing freeze will have NO exceptions
[21:15] <semioticrobotic> ...then all fleshed out by 31
[21:15] <semioticrobotic> gotcha
[21:15] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Title page.  thorwil is working on one that incorporates the new Ubuntu design (such that it is). And we'll write it up in LaTeX, so the title pages get translated automagically.
[21:15] <nisshh> ok got it
[21:15] <semioticrobotic> nice
[21:15] <humphreybc> sweet
[21:15] <humphreybc> title page looks good
[21:15] <humphreybc> and will look better with the new branding stuff
[21:16] <humphreybc> as for new branding, godbyk, colours in the manual?
[21:16] <humphreybc> jaminday1 semioticrobotic you guys can head off now if you like
[21:16] <semioticrobotic> okay, chief
[21:16] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk, why was I highlighted?
[21:16] <semioticrobotic> drop me a line if you need anything ... I'll be working on the manual tonight
[21:16] <jaminday1> humphreybc: ok cheers - will keep track of todo list and will be coming back later today to do some more writing
[21:17] <humphreybc> awesome :)
[21:17] <godbyk> humphreybc: thorwil's been in contact with the ubuntu design folks. they're still finalizing the color choices.
[21:17] <jaminday1> bye all
[21:17] <semioticrobotic> by jamin
[21:17] <ubuntujenkins> bye
[21:17] <humphreybc> sweet as
[21:17] <nisshh> cya dude
[21:17] <thorwil> have to go, too! cya
[21:17] <humphreybc> chow
[21:17] <semioticrobotic> bye everyone
[21:17] <ubuntujenkins> bye
[21:17] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: not sure.
[21:17] <Rudi-> bye bye
[21:17] <humphreybc> ok
[21:17] <humphreybc> so i'm just gonna whizz through this stuff now
[21:17] <nisshh> heh well who is left
[21:18] <humphreybc> if you want to say anything, just interrupt :)
[21:18] <nisshh> dont rush
[21:18] <nisshh> i can stay another 30-40 mins
[21:18]  * Rudi- jumps up and down excitedly!
[21:18] <Rudi-> me me me
[21:18] <nisshh> lol
[21:18] <humphreybc> new website is up at http://test.ubuntu-manual.org
[21:18] <humphreybc> not finished yet
[21:18] <humphreybc> the mockups are under /website/source
[21:18] <humphreybc> in the branch
[21:18] <humphreybc> take a look at it and let me know what you think
[21:19] <Rudi-> oki
[21:19] <humphreybc> you don't have to now, but just at some point
[21:19] <epkugelmass> i like it
[21:19] <epkugelmass> been watching the development
[21:19] <nisshh> its awesome
[21:19] <humphreybc> cool :)
[21:19] <nisshh> simple yet elegant
[21:19] <epkugelmass> i think it should incorporate the ubuntu brown color a little more though
[21:19] <humphreybc> epkugelmass: the brown is no longer :)
[21:19] <nisshh> yucky!
[21:19] <nisshh> death to the brown!!
[21:19] <humphreybc> lol
[21:20] <Rudi-> i like the white
[21:20] <dutchie> I liked the brown
[21:20] <tacantara> Purple is the new brown
[21:20] <dutchie> it was a bit of a shame to see it go
[21:20] <nisshh> i didnt mind it in the logos
[21:20] <Rudi-> i still have a brown theme going... :)
[21:20] <nisshh> but as the theme it was terrible
[21:20] <nisshh> die hard fan huh?
[21:20] <humphreybc> okay so that's cool, re-arrangement - i'm sure you all get this, but chap 6 is now gone and merged with software/packaging and troubleshooting
[21:21] <Rudi-> yep
[21:21] <nisshh> wait what?
[21:21] <nisshh> ch6 is cmd
[21:21] <humphreybc> nah old chapter 6
[21:21] <humphreybc> used to just be "system maintenance"
[21:21] <Rudi-> now there are only 9 chapters
[21:21] <humphreybc> but we removed it, because there wasn't enough stuff to write on
[21:21] <danyR> hey, check out this post from shuttleworth about ubuntu new colors: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/308
[21:22] <nisshh> ooooh you mean the sixth iteration of the 9th quadrant of the 3 circlet
[21:22] <humphreybc> lolwut
[21:22] <humphreybc> um editing review, jamin is going to do that this week
[21:22] <nisshh> nuthin just saying im confused in a cool way
[21:22] <humphreybc> what we need to have done asap - basically everything on here: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F
[21:22] <nisshh> ok
[21:22] <danyR> may be important to integrate core values in ubuntu manual: "And on the end-user / engineer spectrum, we took inspiration from graph paper and engineering blue prints. When you see widely spaced patterns of dots, or outline images and figures, that’s signalling that the content is more engineering-oriented than end-user oriented."
[21:23] <humphreybc> any new people who come along wanting to help out, point them at the to do list
[21:23] <nisshh> ok
[21:23] <humphreybc> danyR: how would we do that?
[21:23] <humphreybc> i wonder if thorwil should put dots on the title page..
[21:23] <dutchie> there was a scale thingy
[21:24] <humphreybc> yeah i've read mark's post
[21:24] <dutchie> I was about to link it
[21:24] <danyR> maybe using the community/user elements
[21:24] <Rudi-> i got distracted reading about it now...
[21:24] <dutchie> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/308
[21:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/308
[21:24] <danyR> "The use of Aubergine indicates Commercial involvement of one form or another, while Orange is a signal of community engagement."
[21:24] <humphreybc> yep well thorwil is pretty involved in the artwork thing, so i'm sure he knows what he's doing
[21:24] <godbyk> I'd think we'd want avoid the engineering end of the spectrum for the getting started guide.
[21:24] <humphreybc> godbyk lol
[21:25] <humphreybc> so orange colours
[21:25] <humphreybc> and stuff
[21:25] <Rudi-> and stuff ;)
[21:25] <Ell> bye all
[21:25] <nisshh> unless an engineer reads the manual
[21:25] <godbyk> humphreybc: As soon as Canonical get their color proofs back and pick one! :)
[21:25] <Rudi-> :O
[21:25] <humphreybc> lol
[21:25] <nisshh> hehe
[21:25] <Rudi-> i am an engineering student...
[21:25] <humphreybc> see ya Ell
[21:25] <Rudi-> watch what ye all say in here :P
[21:25] <nisshh> cool so is my bro
[21:25] <ubuntujenkins> so am i
[21:25] <nisshh> hehehe
[21:26] <humphreybc> okay so i think we've covered pretty much everything
[21:26] <godbyk> So am I. :)
[21:26] <Rudi-> nice :P what field is he in?
[21:26] <humphreybc> cough !ot
[21:26] <nisshh> oh cmon lol
[21:26] <Rudi-> sorry humphreybc
[21:26] <humphreybc> but we need to chat about quickshot
[21:26] <nisshh> and i built a particle accelerator
[21:26] <nisshh> what about quickshot
[21:26] <humphreybc> nisshh: oh was it you that build the LHC?
[21:26] <nisshh> no lol
[21:27] <humphreybc> what _not_ about quickshot?!
[21:27] <Rudi-> that was me
[21:27] <nisshh> ok back on topic now thanks
[21:27] <nisshh> so about quickshot?
[21:27] <humphreybc> quickshot team... assemble!
[21:27] <ubuntujenkins> here
[21:27] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: ping
[21:28] <humphreybc> so since i'm not really doing a whole heap except watching and designing the UI
[21:28] <ubuntujenkins> I am going to ask for help in #ubuntu-app-devel to see if people want to help
[21:28] <humphreybc> ok cool
[21:28] <humphreybc> anyone know of any python developers?
[21:28] <Red_HamsterX> humphreybc, hi.
[21:28] <nisshh> im one
[21:28] <nisshh> but not a pro
[21:28] <nisshh> i wrote pytask
[21:28] <humphreybc> turns out my post on omgubuntu.co.uk for python devs ended up attracting more questions about what theme i was using
[21:28] <dutchie> I should definitely be more involved in quickshot
[21:28] <nisshh> just search it lp
[21:29] <Red_HamsterX> humphreybc, my job failed to pay on time, so I've got a lot of freedom ahead of me to focus on things.
[21:29] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: ha! okay then that sounds good, well, good for us
[21:29] <humphreybc> launchpad.net/quickshot
[21:29] <humphreybc> wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot
[21:29] <humphreybc> go nuts
[21:29] <humphreybc> :)
[21:30] <Red_HamsterX> I'd rather contribute to something that helps people more than something that helps a private enterprise anyway.
[21:30]  * humphreybc is definitely ready for a coffee and breakfast
[21:30] <ubuntujenkins> please help Toomy and I did some work on the time out stiff to day but with on avail. FO my writing python taakes days and isn't an effective use of my time. I will quite happyly continue to help
[21:30] <nisshh> so do we all
[21:30]  * Rudi- is definitely ready for bed...
[21:30] <humphreybc> yeah Tommy needs some help
[21:30]  * ubuntujenkins can't type fast at all
[21:30] <Red_HamsterX> I was speaking with Tommy for a while this morning.
[21:30]  * humphreybc computer is going to run out of juice
[21:30] <humphreybc> oka
[21:31] <Red_HamsterX> He gave me a pretty good idea of where he wants to see things go.
[21:31] <Red_HamsterX> I think I can help us get there.
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> huphreybc did Red_HamsterX and godbyk tell you their idea
[21:31] <nisshh> ok if theres nothing important left to discuss i need to go to bed
[21:31] <Red_HamsterX> The HTTP thing?
[21:31]  * Rudi- agrees with nisshh, me too!
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> yes
[21:31] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah, that's been explained.
[21:31] <Red_HamsterX> Tommy agrees, too.
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> cool
[21:31] <humphreybc> okay
[21:31] <Red_HamsterX> I'm going to push forward on getting a complete prototype ready today (my time).
[21:32] <humphreybc> so quickshot guys, feel free to ping thumper or doctormo to ask questions
[21:32] <Red_HamsterX> For the upload/status-check/authentication model.
[21:32] <ubuntujenkins> sweet sounds good
[21:32] <humphreybc> t humper works for canonical, team-lead for launchpad
[21:33] <humphreybc> doctormo is martin owens who developed ground control. he knows python and also how to work with bzr and launchpad
[21:33] <Red_HamsterX> I'm kinda wondering why my last bzr commit doesn't seem to be in the main branch, though. But I'm sure I'll figure it out.
[21:33] <ubuntujenkins> I havee a question about screenshots, what are we going to do about apps that people have installed and appear in the mnues?
[21:33] <humphreybc> just tell them what you're working on and that i sent you and they'll be all good :)
[21:33] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: avoid screenshotting the menus?
[21:33] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, wouldn't we want everyone to be using fresh installs of Lucid anyway?
[21:33] <nisshh> yes
[21:33] <danyR> Red_HamsterX: maybe a guest-session, not a fresh install
[21:34] <humphreybc> yeah
[21:34] <ubuntujenkins> I am not at the moment and we can't garantee they are freesh
[21:34] <nisshh> ok iv gotta go now, cyas
[21:34] <humphreybc> but don't guest sessions still have access to all the apps?
[21:34] <Red_HamsterX> Guest session works, too.
[21:34] <humphreybc> chow nissh, thanks for staying up
[21:34] <Rudi-> bye bye nisshh
[21:34] <danyR> humphreybc: yeah, they have
[21:34] <nisshh> no prob cya
[21:34] <humphreybc> well
[21:34] <ubuntujenkins> I would like the screen resolution change stuff sorted so it can be tested by lots of people.
[21:34] <humphreybc> we're hardly ever going to have the menus in the screenshot
[21:35] <Rudi-> cheers guys :) i'm out
[21:35] <ubuntujenkins> I think we can say no to menu screenshots
[21:35] <humphreybc> okay bye Rudi- thanks for coming!
[21:35] <Red_HamsterX> If we do, it'll probably be in a later version. This isn't a walkthrough so much as it is a tour, correct?
[21:35] <humphreybc> yeah that makes sense
[21:35] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: i guess you could say that
[21:36] <humphreybc> although we do go into quite a bit of detail on a lot of stuff
[21:36] <humphreybc> just look at chap 3! :)
[21:37] <humphreybc> right well i think that's pretty much everything
[21:37] <humphreybc> questions?
[21:37] <Red_HamsterX> Would having new menu entries unrelated to the task the user wants to accomplish really be that confusing?
[21:37] <Red_HamsterX> I mean, the goal would be highlighted in their language...
[21:37] <Red_HamsterX> Just in case we do get a screencapper with a non-clean system.
[21:37] <humphreybc> it probably doesn't matter than much
[21:38] <humphreybc> but it could get a bit annoying if there are a tonne of kde apps
[21:38] <humphreybc> amongst like one gnome app
[21:38] <ubuntujenkins> we will be adding them to the branch our sevels so a quick check over can be done
[21:38] <humphreybc> we aren't going to be screenshotting the menus anyway
[21:38] <danyR> "he desktop itself will have a wallpaper that is part of the default Ubuntu theme, known as the Human theme. The desktop is highly customizable". just found this while translating. guess it's wrong now :P
[21:39] <humphreybc> yeah, lots of stuff is wrong courtesy of the new design changes
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> Radiance is the new theme or Ambiance
[21:39] <tacantara> I'm going to work on that, now that I have the new themes installed and I've had a chance to play around with them.
[21:39] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: not sure yet
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> which one is default?
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> ok
[21:39] <humphreybc> i think radience will be
[21:40] <humphreybc> but when i installed lucid yesterday, ambience was
[21:40] <tacantara> That is my understanding too, Ben
[21:40] <danyR> heard that ambience is going to be default
[21:40] <ubuntujenkins> I set it to ambiance when i got the update
[21:40] <danyR> and it's damn more sexy than radiance!
[21:40] <ubuntujenkins> it is better
[21:40] <humphreybc> i can't imagine them choosing a dark theme by default
[21:40] <ubuntujenkins> true thats a point and gdm is light
[21:41]  * humphreybc mutters something about canonical not sticking to the UI freeze
[21:41] <danyR> gdm *has* to suffer changes until final release
[21:41] <ubuntujenkins> thats going to cause us a pain
[21:41] <tacantara> A lot changed with the new theme.  No more launchers for Firefox, et.al. on the top panel
[21:41]  * epkugelmass is going to stick to shiki-colors
[21:42]  * humphreybc is going to stick to homosapien :)
[21:42] <humphreybc> oh well
[21:42] <humphreybc> not much we can do but wait
[21:42]  * danyR is going to stick with Elementary :D
[21:43] <humphreybc> ok
[21:43] <humphreybc> meeting over?
[21:43] <godbyk> humphreybc: Got someplace better to be? ;-)
[21:43] <ubuntujenkins> I think so
[21:43] <humphreybc> godbyk nope i'm just hungry and tired
[21:44] <humphreybc> 9am sunday morning meetings aren't cool :P
[21:44] <humphreybc> #endmeeting
[21:44] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:44.
[21:44] <epkugelmass> it's 5PM saturday in ny
[21:44] <danyR> 9am?
[21:44] <epkugelmass> =]
[21:44] <ubuntujenkins> 8.44pm
[21:44] <ubuntujenkins> *9.44
[21:44] <humphreybc> yep, 9am sunday morning
[21:45] <humphreybc> okay i'm gonna go and have something to eat, coffee, shower etc then i'll be back soon
[21:45] <danyR> well, around here it's 21:44
[21:45] <humphreybc> to start writing and editing :)
[21:45] <godbyk> humphreybc: 'kay. see ya after a bit.
[22:17] <humphreybc> argh
[22:17] <humphreybc> could not acquire lock when pulling
[22:19] <ubuntujenkins> are you using ground control?
[22:22] <humphreybc> i have it installed but i'm using the CLI
[22:23] <ubuntujenkins> I had ground control lock the branch some how I had to delete the branch and try again with the CLI
[22:34] <humphreybc> wow, awesome, we're already up to rev 428
[22:34] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/428 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 428
[22:34] <humphreybc> thanks manualbox
[22:34] <humphreybc> manualbot*
[22:34] <humphreybc> yesterday we got up to 400, 28 revisions in about 20 hours, nice!
[22:37] <ubuntujenkins> i was rev 300 :-)
[22:37] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/300 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 300
[22:43] <godbyk> I keep uploading little bug fixes for the various translations when a build fails.
[22:44] <humphreybc> that's all good
[22:44] <humphreybc> there's no rule on how much you have to change before pushin
[22:47] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk, every try building a webapp purely on a remote host using a VCS? Nice way to rack up thousands of revisions very quickly.
[22:48] <ubuntujenkins> being a python noob and trying to wrtie a program is another way to do it :-)
[22:49] <Red_HamsterX> Don't commit until it's working locally. =P
[22:49] <Red_HamsterX> Wow. IT's getting late and I'm still assembling proof of billable work...
[22:49] <Red_HamsterX> It's*
[22:49] <Red_HamsterX> My schedule may be off by a few hours.
[22:50] <Red_HamsterX> I should probably stop fielding questions in #ubuntu.
[23:04] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: heh.. I can imagine!
[23:07]  * ubuntujenkins has a timer nearly working at last except it goes up not down :-)
[23:08] <ubuntujenkins> with allot of help as usual
[23:10] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, has it been committed?
[23:10] <Red_HamsterX> If so, I'll takje a look at it.
[23:10] <Red_HamsterX> take*
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> not yet i will do now i suggets you comment out lines 225 and 228 adn change quickshot in line 127 to your user name
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX bzr branch lp:~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-quickshot
[23:14]  * ubuntujenkins has a bad feeling internet problems are about to happen
[23:16] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: "has a timer nearly working at last except it goes up not down" hahahaha!
[23:16] <Red_HamsterX> How can I actually push my local bzr changes back to a central location?
[23:16] <Red_HamsterX> I'm far too used to the svn/cvs model.
[23:18] <godbyk> holy cow! I'm gonna have to take a few minutes and read through the TODO list.
[23:18] <godbyk> see which bits are on my side of the fence.
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> sorry my guys uni internet has been playing up all day I missed anything you said after 23.10
[23:22] <Red_HamsterX> We didn't say anything meaningful.
[23:22] <godbyk> We rarely do. :)
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> cool
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> you never know
[23:23] <humphreybc> anyone know where i can report bugs on the new notification system?
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> on launchpad bugs under ubuntu :P
[23:23] <humphreybc> lol
[23:23] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, that's why I couldn't upload my changes. 'Cause I already did and I was just looking at the wrong branch.
[23:23]  * Red_HamsterX duhs.
[23:23] <humphreybc> launchpad is slow
[23:26] <ubuntujenkins> we have a countdown
[23:26]  * ubuntujenkins jumps up and doen
[23:26] <Red_HamsterX> So which files am I looking at, ubuntujenkins?
[23:28] <humphreybc> guys, give me some more things that tell you information in your notification tray
[23:28] <humphreybc> there's the battery indicator, wireless indicator, volume indicator
[23:28] <humphreybc> crash report?
[23:28] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX the timer is in bin/quickshot line 232 with some help I have it working now i will just make the changes
[23:28] <humphreybc> updates available?
[23:28] <Red_HamsterX> bin/? That seems like an odd place to put source, but okay.
[23:29] <Red_HamsterX> By default or what we use, humphreybc?
[23:29] <humphreybc> anything
[23:29] <humphreybc> doesn't have to be by default
[23:29] <Red_HamsterX> I also use the CPU monitor and system monitor.
[23:29] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, except those aren't Notification Tray-bound.
[23:30] <humphreybc> okay
[23:30] <humphreybc> oh CPU scaling
[23:30] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah. I like knowing, at a glance, whether I've written a busy loop or not.
[23:31] <Red_HamsterX> And I like knowing just how much RAM my AI projects are eating.
[23:31] <humphreybc> i'm just submitting bugs on launchpad complaining about a heap of stuff :)
[23:31] <Red_HamsterX> Ah. I figured this was for things to document for the manual.
[23:32] <humphreybc> hehe nope, i just asked here because that window was open
[23:32] <humphreybc> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/533544
[23:32] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 533544 in ubuntu "New notification area problems" [Undecided,New]
[23:34] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc its effects me :-)
[23:34] <humphreybc> yeah, mark it as affecting you if it does please team :)
[23:35] <ubuntujenkins> what I would like to know why is't network manager in there but evreything else is
[23:35] <humphreybc> yeah, it's rubbish
[23:36]  * ubuntujenkins is trying to recruit a python coder
[23:36] <ubuntujenkins> *another
[23:39] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX did you say you were adding the screenshot module to quickshot?
[23:44] <ubuntujenkins> guys meet titeuf_87 he helped me get the timer working, humphreybc is the project lead
[23:44] <godbyk> humphreybc: for the nomenclature stuff, what do you think needs to be explained?
[23:44] <titeuf_87> hey everyone
[23:44] <godbyk> I think the buttons and menu stuff are usually written right next to the word 'button' or 'menu'.
[23:44] <godbyk> Hey, titeuf_87.
[23:45] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn is also working on it he is utc +1 and not here right now
[23:45] <ubuntujenkins> will be back in a moment just going to do a test
[23:48] <ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87 this is the main branch :
[23:48] <ubuntujenkins> bzr branch lp:quickshot
[23:48] <ubuntujenkins> bzr branch lp:~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-quickshot is the branch that has the stuff we were working on I will add it to main tomorow
[23:49] <titeuf_87> this is where you added in that counter?
[23:49] <ubuntujenkins> in y branch yes
[23:50] <ubuntujenkins> if you join https://edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs I will authorize it so that you can upload changes
[23:50] <ubuntujenkins> there is some bugs in my branch only minor that are fixed in main. window sizes and some text not showing
[23:51] <titeuf_87> ok, just tried to join, need approval first though
[23:53] <ubuntujenkins> I have just approved you don't test my branch yet I have just made a mistake in testing
[23:54] <titeuf_87> I'm just looking around at the code to get an idea of how it works now
[23:55] <ubuntujenkins> we use quickly, quickly run runs it and quickly run -r removes the user and runs it
[23:58] <titeuf_87> basically, making an user works, logging in as it works, and further than that it's not implemented yet?
[23:58] <ubuntujenkins> and the resolution is changed if we can
[23:58] <ubuntujenkins> we only support some drivers at the moment
[23:59] <ubuntujenkins> the reolution change is only in my branch, I have my own branch as I am not a python coder and don't want to break main