[00:18] <Caesar> # service autofs status
[00:18] <Caesar> autofs stop/killed, process 3690
[00:18] <Caesar> # pgrep automount
[00:18] <Caesar> 3687
[00:19] <Caesar> I think Upstart is getting very confused :-(
[00:19] <Caesar> # service autofs stop
[00:19] <Caesar> stop: Job has already been stopped: autofs
[00:20] <Caesar> http://paste.ubuntu.com/389279/ has my Upstart job definition, which I'm trying to test
[00:26] <Caesar> (on Ubuntu 10.04)
[00:53] <Keybuk> Caesar: bug #406397
[00:56] <Caesar> Yarp
[00:58] <Keybuk> probably got confused following the pid chain and ended up with something that isn't actually autofs
[00:58] <Keybuk> like one of the fork parents
[01:07] <Caesar> Yeah
[01:07] <Caesar> "expect fork" after a clean boot fixed it
[01:12] <Keybuk> sweet
[01:12] <Keybuk> sorry about that one
[01:12] <Keybuk> I have a fix for it ;)
[01:12] <Keybuk> but it's a M one
[01:12] <Caesar> Doh
[01:12] <Caesar> It's pretty bad how busted things get in this situation
[01:13] <Caesar> start and stop just hang
[01:16] <Keybuk> yeah
[01:16] <Keybuk> it's because it's not supposed to be able to happen :p
[01:20] <Caesar> heh
[01:21] <Caesar> So what's currently doing my head in is the timing between the legacy init scripts and the upstart jobs
[01:22] <Caesar> Because a lot of the upstart jobs aren't runlevel dependent (maybe if I follow the dependency chain back I'll find that they are)
[01:23] <Keybuk> they're not supposed to be
[01:23] <Keybuk> there's a vague wishy-washy attempt to make runlevels go away :p
[01:23] <Caesar> heh
[01:23] <Keybuk> btw are you coming to the-woods-outside-Brussels?
[01:24] <Caesar> Sadly not, as my wife is due on May 24
[01:24] <Caesar> And I'm transferring off Goobuntu after my paternity leave, so I won't have a justification for coming to future UDSes
[01:24] <Keybuk> aww :-(  where are you transferring to?
[01:24] <Caesar> The security team
[01:25] <Keybuk> before you go, I'd really appreciate it if I could get a kind of "what Google would like from Upstart" mail
[01:25] <Keybuk> what you've found difficult about it
[01:25] <Keybuk> problems you've had
[01:25] <Keybuk> what you wish it did
[01:25] <Keybuk> what you wish it did better
[01:25] <Keybuk> etc.
[01:25] <Caesar> I can do that, particularly after we've deployed 10.04
[01:25] <Caesar> Right now I'm just having a hell of a time debugging the boot process. That's due to a combination of factors though
[01:26] <Keybuk> yeah, as I think I've talked to you before, I want Upstart to keep an event log
[01:27] <Keybuk> so after a boot you can get a log like
[01:27] <Keybuk> "the foo event happened, so I started apache, but I couldn't start squid yet because it was still waiting on apache"
[01:27] <Keybuk> "the started apache happened, so I started squid"
[01:27] <Caesar> That sounds perfect
[01:27] <Keybuk> and want that to be hooked up in a way that on a hung system, you can have upstart squirt it out to netconsole
[01:27] <Keybuk> "dump my brain"
[01:28] <Caesar> The startup event is the root of everything isn't it?
[01:30] <Keybuk> yes
[01:30] <Keybuk> though in later versions you may be able to do "on system starting" and "on system started"
[01:30] <Keybuk> as two separate bits
[01:31] <Caesar> Okay, so startup -> mountall -> (local-filesystems) -> (run level 2) -> rc 2
[01:31] <Caesar> Meanwhile, (local-filesystems) -> networking
[01:31] <Caesar> So it sounds like the rc 2 legacy init scripts are going to run in parallel with the network coming up
[01:49] <Caesar> Keybuk: something my cubemate was just lamenting is how restart isn't "restart or start"
[01:52] <Keybuk> Caesar: that's deliberate ;-)
[01:52] <Caesar> I thought as much
[01:52] <Caesar> Is there a "start or restart" equivalent?
[01:52] <Keybuk> I really hate how "/etc/init.d/foo restart" can start a service that wasn't running to begin with
[01:52] <Keybuk> stop foo ; start foo
[01:52] <Caesar> Right
[01:53] <Caesar> A bit more typing
[01:55] <sadmac> Keybuk: I thought there was a restart. moreover I thought it was slightly different than stop;start
[01:55] <sadmac> or was that for 1.0
[01:55] <Keybuk> there is a restart
[01:55] <Keybuk> and it is slightly different ;)
[01:56] <Keybuk> Caesar had just asked whether there was an alternative to it that wasn't slightly different to stop;start ;)
[02:17] <sadmac> Keybuk: I'd think the preference would be restart foo || start foo
[03:44] <Keybuk> that'd work too ;)
[04:32] <sadmac> Keybuk: I have an ubuntu user who says he would like to "bitch slap ubuntu for making it look like a friggin mac" and would like me to direct him to your art department. Might you be of assistance?
[05:37] <Keybuk> sadmac: if we want to be better than a Mac, first we have to catch up with them ;)
[05:38] <alphainu> ~_~
[13:56] <ion> I *wish* Ubuntu looked like MacOSX (except for the even more blurry fonts and a dock that takes up a huge amount of screen real estate). :-P They have very stylish things going on, such as no left/bottom/right borders in windows, as the shadows are enough to differentiate a window of a certain color from another similar one. I love that.
[16:32] <sadmac> much as I liked making brown jokes in the past, I don't much care what ubuntu looks like in the end.