kermiacanyone know of a master bugreport for changing minimse/maximise/close to left? or are we just invalidating them with a link to upstreams decision?00:08
kermiacanyone?? ^^00:21
m0arI've got an awful problem. Right after I log on, the next time I press enter my X-server gets restarted. Any ideas? Is this known?01:08
ddecatorm0ar, yah it's known, let me find the report...01:08
ddecatorm0ar, i'm guessing you're on lucid?01:09
m0arActionParsnip: ddecator Yep01:09
m0arddecator: yep*01:09
ddecatorm0ar, bug 53204701:09
ubot4Launchpad bug 532047 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Plymouth text-mode splash causes X to crash on first run due to shared tty7 (affects: 84) (dups: 11)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53204701:09
m0arddecator: Yeah, my TTY7 is01:10
ddecatorthey're working on a fix right now01:10
m0arSo, what can I do?01:10
ddecatorthere is a workaround on the report i believe01:10
hggdh OK. eeeBotu is back. Sorry for the problems.01:20
* BUGabundo <3 hggdh01:24
kermiacddecator: re no pic in me-menu. already reported bug 52595101:33
ubot4Launchpad bug 525951 in indicator-me (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Selecting a user image does not apply in the Me Menu (affects: 18) (dups: 2)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52595101:33
* kermiac needs to improves his launchpad-searching-foo01:34
ddecatorhaha, good deal, thanks kermiac01:34
ddecatorkermiac, doing a google search for "site:bugs.launchpad.net <search terms>" works best for me01:35
kermiacthanks ddecator I'll have to try that. been using google, but not with the "site:" part01:35
hggdhyo BUGabundo01:53
kermiachggdh: I want to ask your opinion wrt bug reports concerning window controls on the left. I have seen that bug 532633 was invalidated. Do you think it'd be safe to invalidate similarm bug reports & poiny them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand#New%20GtkThemes, advising that it's a design decision?01:58
ubot4Launchpad bug 532633 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "[light-theme] please centre window title and order window controls (affects: 7)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53263301:58
kermiacs/poiny/point - bah, fingers not working today01:59
kermiacor maybe dupe that report (532633) using it as a "master" & invalidate02:00
jamaltahi there, i have a question abou thtis bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/f-spot/+bug/53361502:52
ubot4Launchpad bug 533615 in f-spot (Ubuntu) "F-Spot PicasaWeb export fails when "Export Tags" is checked (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]02:52
jamaltathat's an upstream bug, right? should i also report it to the gnome bug tracker? if so, how do i link an upstream bug?02:52
jamaltaor do i have to request for someone with more privileges to do so02:52
micahgjamalta: also affects project allows you to add an upstream bug02:53
greg-gif you have the upstream bug url, that is :)02:53
jamaltamicahg: ah! thanks :)02:53
nigelbjamalta: you don't need more rights to add an upstream tracker, you can add it yourself02:53
jamaltagreg-g: of course, will report to gnome's bugtracker02:53
jamaltanigelb: thanks02:53
jamaltayou guys are helpful! :)02:53
greg-gwe try :) thank you for participating!02:54
jamaltashould i paste the ubuntu-bug output to gnome's bugtracker? i think that might come in handy, no?02:54
nigelbnot entirely02:54
nigelbjust give the version of f-spot that you're using02:54
jamaltanigelb: ok, thanks :)02:54
kermiacas noone really wants to comment on the issue, I've made bug 532633 a "master bug" for all bugs related to recent "wm controls on the left" change02:55
ubot4Launchpad bug 532633 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "[light-theme] please centre window title and order window controls (affects: 11) (dups: 2)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53263302:55
nigelbkermiac: whoa :)02:56
jamaltathanks everyone for your help02:56
jamalta<sarcasm> min,max,close buttons on the left is a bug, right? ;) </sarcasm>02:56
kermiacyeah... there is at least one other dupe, but I think it needs to be split into 3 diff bug reports02:56
nigelbyup, its a wishlist02:56
* kermiac grins02:56
kermiacwe're likely to see a whole lot more bugs file regarding that issue02:57
micahgjamalta: I thoguht that was a design decision02:57
jamaltamicahg: i know, i'm joking :)02:57
nigelbanyone familiar with flac encoding?02:57
kermiacmicahg: Have you seen firefox utilising around 10% of cpu & 20% or ram? upto 1.5GB sometimes.... I'm thinking it's probably a rogue extension, but I'm not sure03:06
micahgkermiac: both of those are subjective03:06
micahgkermiac: how many tabs and what are you doing?03:06
kermiacok, that's true :)03:06
micahgalso, what version?03:06
kermiacI know I use a LOT of windows/ tabs - currently 8 windows open each with around 10 or more tabs. FF ver 3.603:07
micahg8 windows wit 10 each?03:08
kermiacyeah, that's almost definately my problem then. I need to stop doing so much at once03:08
micahgkermiac: only if you don't have the RAM :)03:09
kermiacI've got 32bit karmic installed, so it only sees 3GB ;)03:09
micahgkermiac: use PAE03:09
kermiacyeah, I would but that messes with me using usb-creator03:10
micahgkermiac: why?03:10
kermiacsome older machines don't seem to like pae03:10
micahgkermiac: I'd say that's a bug :)03:11
micahgand what old machine supports > 2GB RAM?03:11
kermiacyeah? I thought that usb-creator would utilise whatever kernel the machine creating the startup disk uses03:11
micahgidk, shouldn't matter IMHO03:12
micahgkermiac: I thought it just runs the installer?03:12
kermiacsome of the old clunkers at work don't handle pae kernel - never really looked into it further. I've just avoided installing the pae kernels on the machines I use to create startup disks03:13
kermiacI don't know exactly what it does, but it copies files from whatever computer you create it on03:13
micahgkermiac: I thought it copies from the ISO03:13
kermiac& if I create on a machine using a pae kernel it creates a usb disk with pae kernel03:14
kermiacAlthough I haven't tried it on a machine with pae kernel in over 6 months... sounds like I need to take another look at it :)03:15
kermiacI'll load up a vm & install pae kernel & check03:15
micahgkermiac: well, are you generating a startup disk from an ISO or from the current system?03:18
micahgnot env, but source03:18
kermiac_bah, brown-outs :(03:20
=== kermiac_ is now known as kermiac
kermiacand the fun begins... already having reports regarding wm controls unduped & set to confirmed :(03:23
bcurtiswxkermiac: still having brown outs?03:23
kermiacbcurtiswx: yeah - it's this house. but the electrician can't find the cause :(03:24
bcurtiswxthat does suck03:24
kermiacyup.. so at least twice a day I have to go flick the switch in the powerbox03:24
bcurtiswxget a new house03:27
nigelbddecator: hey, what do you mean by realestate used by rhythmbox?03:28
ddecatornigelb, hey, there just seems to be more space used then there needs to be. for example, the area that shows the trackbar and the title of the song playing could be shorter and doesn't need to cover the entire width of the player, the buttons are larger than they need to be imo...just little stuff that, if it reduced the amount of space things took up, then there would be more room for browsing music (and eventually the ubuntu03:31
ddecatorone store)03:31
nigelbddecator: it just uses up the space because of the track listing03:32
nigelbactually, in the small version, its much smaller03:32
* ddecator tries small version03:33
ddecatorthat doesn't change the height of it for me...the search bar could also be redesigned so that it doesn't have to take up as much space either...but it's more of a personal preference, i like things like that to be as minimal as possible ;)03:34
nigelbddecator: since its going to be hidden all the time, I really dont mind the size ;)03:34
ddecatornigelb, true haha, i just think it would be more user-friendly if the browsing area was larger...for example, moving the trackbar up to in-between the control buttons and the volume would save a lot of room and raise the height of the browsing area quite a bit03:36
nigelbddecator: yes it would, but I think its a gnome standard03:36
nigelbits like a tool bar03:37
ddecatorwell it works and there isn't anything inherently wrong with the design, it just doesn't fit my personal preferences =)03:38
ddecatornigelb, i do think something should be done with the "home" button (not sure what it's called) since it doesn't portray it's function very well...03:41
nigelbddecator: home?03:42
ddecatornigelb, the button that displays a house, but adjusts the view in the browsing area (either has the Artist and Album filters or not)03:43
* nigelb sees no such button03:43
ddecatornext to the visualization button?03:45
nigelbmust be new feature03:45
ddecatorhuh, let me get a screenshot so you can see what i mean...03:46
ddecatornigelb, http://imgur.com/OtV1e.png03:47
nigelbddecator: you say it takes too much space? the karmic one takes more03:48
nigelband i have no clue what it does.  need to update to lucid sometime03:48
ddecatornigelb, that house button just makes the Artist and Album filters either display or be hidden, so it doesn't communicate it's function well at all imo (i can file a wishlist bug if you want)03:49
nigelbddecator: please do.  upstream ;)03:49
ddecatornigelb, and yes, this is similar to what i would like to see rhythmbox look like: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/rhythmbox-reimagined-prepare-to-wow.html03:50
ddecatornigelb, ah, it changes depending on your icon theme...04:01
nigelbddecator: oh, then you need to file against the theme04:08
ddecatornigelb, yah, that's what i figured, i'm trying to find the icons so i can figure out what the title of the icon is...04:08
nigelbddecator: ah :)04:08
ddecatornigelb, you wouldn't happen to know a way for me to see what file rhythmbox looks for to use for that button? i have no idea what size or category it will be under...04:27
* nigelb looks into source04:27
nigelbddecator: can you give me the tooltip text for it04:29
ddecatornigelb, "Change the visibility of the browser"04:29
nigelbddecator: no clue buddy.  tried04:39
ddecatornigelb, thanks, i appreciate you trying. i'm just trying to find the icon so i can know what exactly is going on...04:40
nigelbddecator: ask vish or qense, they should know04:41
ddecatornigelb, thanks04:41
ddecatorvish, you around?04:41
vishkermiac: tried searching in the light themes?04:53
nigelbvish:  how do we see the icon calls in source?04:53
kermiacvish: huh?04:53
ddecatorvish, was that meant for me?04:53
vishkermiac: upstream in this case is ubuntu[themes] , not gnome04:53
kermiacvish: sorry, didn't know what you were referring to for a sec ;)04:54
vishkermiac: ubuntu[themes] is probably not the exact package name.. , the project has not been made public anywhere , so there is no upstream link yet04:54
kermiacso far I've just duped all of the bug reports I have found so far into one master bug report as there was already a fair amount of discussion regarding the issue in bug 53263304:55
ubot4`Launchpad bug 532633 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "[light-theme] please centre window title and order window controls (affects: 15) (dups: 4)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53263304:55
ddecatorohhh, that, haha04:56
* kermiac laughs04:58
vishhmm , damn irc lag :/04:59
kermiacmicahg: wrt usb-creator & pae - seems like the issue may have been a local &/or old problem. It doesn't copy the pae kernel over now :)05:00
vishkermiac: the bug is not invalid , the themes are still expected to undergo a lot of changes05:02
* vish setting it to confirmed until a final decision is made05:02
kermiacvish: I didn't invalidate it05:03
kermiacit was already set to invalid05:03
kermiaci was wanting some more advice on the issue earlier as I wasn't sure if I should set it back to confirmed or not05:04
kermiacI just cleaned up the excess reports for now until I could find someone else to discuss the issue with05:04
ddecatorvish, does that also mean i shouldn't file a bug with the ubuntu-mono-light icon theme?05:06
kermiacty for clearing that up vish :)05:08
=== jamalta is now known as jamalta-afk
vishddecator: which bug?  my irc is a bit lagging.. i might have missed something..05:08
vishwhich icon bug*05:09
nigelbvish: slow connection?05:09
vishnigelb: nah , i had transmission set to unlimited ;)05:09
nigelbvish: that was next :p05:10
vishjust now stopped it and got back pages of scrollback :(05:10
ddecatorvish, with rhythmbox the "Change the visibility in the browser" button is a house with the ubuntu-mono-light theme...which makes no sense05:10
nigelbset it to 30 for sanesness05:10
vishddecator: sure file one , with the screenshot.. none of the canonical themes/icons are yet hosted publicly , when it is will be decided05:11
vishthey are still WIPs , just been pushed early due to UI freeze05:11
nigelbvish: how do we see the code for that thing05:12
nigelbi.e. the code for the icon to see where it is referenced?05:12
ddecatorvish, alright, what package would i file it against?05:12
vishnigelb: ubuntu-mono, i guess05:12
nigelbvish: shouldn't rhythmbox code have a call to an icon or theme?05:12
ddecatorah, there it is...05:13
vishnigelb: hmm , you can check the icon name in the /usr/share/icons05:13
nigelbvish: aha :)05:13
ddecatori haven't actually filed a report in so long...05:14
nigelbddecator: I got lost a bit when I had to file one for FFE too ;)05:15
ddecatornigelb, so does that mean you know what icon rhythmbox is calling for so i can include it in the report?05:15
ddecatornigelb, haha, i used to do this a lot, but never on lp...05:15
nigelbddecator: i'm not on lucid, so you have to check at your end05:15
* vish still doesnt know which the icon ddecator and nigelb are talking about05:15
vish screenshot would help ;)05:16
nigelbvish: http://i.imgur.com/OtV1e.png05:16
ddecatorvish, in rhythmbox, the "Change the visibility of the browser" icon is a house...05:16
nigelbvish: thoughts on possible replacement?05:16
vishhmm... that is an icon from humanity05:16
vishthe rhythmbox is the culprit here , it uses that icon05:17
vishddecator: hasnt it been that way for a long time?05:17
ddecatorvish, idk, but it changes for some icon themes05:17
ddecatori just started using it today because of songbird problems05:18
* ddecator stops filing report05:18
* micahg switched to banshee actually...05:18
nigelbvish: I dont see that thing for karmic RB05:18
* nigelb is going to check RB source to see if its a new feature05:18
vishnigelb: hmm , its been that way since karmic05:18
nigelbvish: then for some reason I have it disabled.  I dont see the house icon05:19
ddecatordepending on the icon theme, i either get a house, or a stack of cds...05:19
ddecatornigelb, what do you see?05:19
nigelbah, I get a stack of CDs ;)05:19
vishddecator: yeah , gnome is a stack of cd's05:19
ddecatorstill not a very good icon imo05:19
vishddecator: somewhere we seem to have added an extra symlink..05:20
ddecatorvish, gonna be honest, not sure what that means...05:20
vishddecator: instead of using a separate icon for that there is probably an extra symlink somewhere which points to the house icon.. [not sure how to explain]05:21
ddecatorvish, ah, ok, i get what you're saying. so is that an upstream or downstream problem?05:22
nigelbdownstream, theme specific05:22
ddecatorfair enough05:22
vishnigelb: it is upstream theme specific as well ;)05:23
nigelbvish: bah! themes are complicated05:23
ddecator...so file on both?05:23
vishddecator:  sure you can ..05:24
ddecatorvish, alright, i'll let you guys determine whether or not they should be linked05:25
vishddecator: linked? humanity is hosted in lp05:25
ddecatorvish, right, but my suggestion will be to have a pre-determined icon instead of having it be theme-dependent05:26
nigelbddecator: all icons change with themes05:27
nigelbthey need to05:27
nigelbor else we'd have white icons in a dark theme ;)05:27
ddecatorhuh, i thought apps could set their own icons for use within the app05:27
vishddecator: seeing that humanity and rhythmbox would probably be dropped for lucid +1 .. we are spending way too much time on this bug ;p05:28
nigelbvish: isnt banshee coming in?05:28
ddecatorvish, true, but isn't the ubuntu-mono-* theme going to be used? that's what i'm using right now and it's using the same icon, unless they are going to be changed05:29
vishnigelb: probably for lucid+1 ..05:29
nigelbbut since it will only be main -> universe, it still significant ;)05:30
vishddecator: ubuntu-mono is not a complete theme.. ;) it has only the panel icons , the rest of the icons are from humanity05:30
vishddecator: that one is a humanity icon05:30
ddecatorvish, ah, gotcha...so should i still file the report, or is it not going to be looked at? haha05:31
vishddecator: file one , if i have time i'll fix it :)05:31
ddecatorvish, fair enough05:31
ddecatori thought rhythmbox was going to be around for a while since it will have the ubuntu one music store first...05:31
persiarhythmbox is likely to be around for a while whether it's default or not.  If it's buggy, please triage as usual and try to get stuff fixed.05:32
persiaGiven that banshee won't even start on some architectures, I'm certain it will continue to have users.05:33
ddecatorpersia, good point05:33
micahgpersia: banshee is slated to be default at some point?05:33
persiamicahg: There are rumours to that effect.  I have no idea how true they may be.05:34
vishmicahg: it was supposed to be in Karmic itself , but upstream didnt have a stable tarball in time and there were a few other confusions as well05:34
persia(for some value of "supposed to be")05:34
nigelbwell, there is the store05:34
nigelbright now its only in05:34
persiaAnyway, doesn't matter.05:34
vishnigelb: yup , since it is default ;)05:35
persiaSome people use one thing.  Some people use another.  We ought try to support both.05:35
nigelbmain -> universe is not much05:35
micahgwe have many music players :)05:35
nigelbwe still support the thing05:35
* vish still uses rhythmbox :)05:35
* nigelb too!05:35
persiaBugs don't get less interesting just because they are in non-default apps: they just get less commonly-reported.05:35
vishpersia: that makes life more easy ;)05:35
vishpersia: re: (for some value of "supposed to be") , that was what the desktop team mentioned as the reason for dropping banshee for karmic05:37
persiavish: My issue is that "supposed to be" implies there is some strong driving force, rather than just people reviewing which packages happen to meet what they believe to be common use cases better each cycle.05:38
persiavish: So, there's absolutely no reason we especially like rhythmbox or banshee or mpd or any of the others.05:38
persiaThe one that a given flavour's developers think happens to integrate best for each release gets selected by default, and lots of users choose alternates.05:39
* micahg needs to work on getting Songbird into archive..maybe lucid +105:40
* ddecator would appreciate that05:40
vishpersia: AFAIK , there was a driving force for banshee as default.. but that stopped with slow upstream , [i vaguely recall uds-k also having a discussion on the change]05:41
micahgbanshee is what I use since it supports shoutcast and poodcsts05:41
persiavish: There was no driving force: it was a result of some people thinking it was good and an analysis of integration and support for use cases.05:41
vishpersia: ah , gotcha..05:42
persiavish: Don't assume that there exists a secret cabal that says "This is the direction": UDS exists precisely because of the absence of such a body.05:42
persiaSome people argue with greater weight than others, but that's a matter of mutual respect, rather than a matter of who "controls" stuff.05:42
persiaAlso, not all flavours agree on the right solution, so there is often divergence within Ubuntu (and on official images).05:43
vishpersia: hehe , didnt assume secrets cabal  , for karmic papercuts  , banshee was kept in the loop for sometime , then we dropped it from the papercuts , since the desktop team was no longer interested , thats how i knew of this :)05:44
nigelbwell, one thing I gotta tell ya. the rhthmbox upstream is a great bunch who's friendly05:44
nigelbwell, there are a couple pissed off with ubuntu moments, but generally, they're pretty nice05:44
ddecatori should get to know some upstream mozilla people...05:45
persiaThat's always going to be the case with distro/upstream discussions *)05:45
vishpersia: i'm not having a personal opinion on either players , i use rhythmbox.. didnt like banshee when i tried it long time ago ;)05:45
persiavish: Understood.  I just try to argue against imprecise language that implies all of Ubuntu isn't a cooperative venture when I encounter it :)05:45
ddecatorwow, upstream rhythmbox people are on top of things...05:59
=== kermiac is now known as kermiac_
nigelbddecator: got a reply already?05:59
ddecatornigelb, they already marked it a dupe X)05:59
nigelbddecator: I told you so ;)06:00
ddecatoryup, no h in his name though06:00
nigelbI spell bad06:00
ddecatori saw that report too and i didn't look because i didn't think there was any way it was what i was looking for...oops06:01
ddecatormicahg, do you generally recommend having people try bugs in safe mode, or with a new profile?06:06
micahgnew profile06:07
ddecatorwhat's the best way to do that? 'firefox -p --no-remote' ?06:08
micahgddecator: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/390119/06:11
ddecatormicahg, perfect, thanks06:11
ddecatoroh good, two bugs that the reporters made public with coredumps...06:24
persiaddecator: Happens sometimes.  Simple to clean up, and at least it was the *reporter* that exposed it.06:26
ddecatorpersia, very true. i'm marking them private again and letting them know why06:26
micahgddecator: you can vote for bug 50537006:26
ubot4`Launchpad bug 505370 in malone "disable ability to make public if attachments should be private (affects: 2)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50537006:26
ddecatormicahg, will do06:26
persiaddecator: In those cases, I usually remove the coredump and leave them public.06:27
* persia goes to argue against 50537006:28
* micahg is curious to see persia's argument06:28
wgrantUnfortunately removing attachments isn't very effective.06:28
ddecatorpersia, what if retrace failed? should i make it private and let someone look at it?06:28
ddecatorand in the other it still needs retrace, so shouldn't the coredump stay attached for now?06:30
micahgbug 39298 is the one that really should be fixed06:30
ubot4`micahg: Bug 39298 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/39298 is private06:30
micahgI meant bug 3967406:31
ubot4`Launchpad bug 39674 in malone "Attachments of private bugreports are public (affects: 1) (dups: 3)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3967406:31
wgrantThe Private PPA infrastructure makes that feasible now.06:31
persiaI can't even see bug 3929806:31
ubot4`persia: Bug 39298 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/39298 is private06:31
micahgpersia: wrong bug06:31
wgrantAlthough it's hard to privatise public files.06:31
persiaAttempting to "privatise" public files is just a false impression.  The file may have been (and perhaps has provably been) exposed previously.06:32
* nigelb agrees with persia's argument06:32
nigelb(in the bug)06:33
ddecatorthe extra warning is a good idea06:34
nigelbespecially when changing from private -> public06:35
micahgpersia: I would assume similar ACLs to the report a bug could be instituted so -control members can do what they want06:35
wgrantRestricting bug permissions should not be done lightly.06:35
persiamicahg: Potentially, but that doesn't help upstream developers :)06:36
micahgpersia: upstream devs that want to can become part of -control06:37
ddecatorone bug failed retrace, the other still hasn't been retraced, so coredumps should stay attached and reports made private for now as a precaution, yes? that's my understanding from the wiki (but i haven't had to deal with this much before)06:38
persiaddecator: That's correct, but once a bug is public, it can't really be made private again, because it's been posted to the ubuntu-bugs ML.06:39
ddecatorpersia, right, but it's better than nothing i suppose...06:40
persiaReally, no.  The artifacts have already been exposed.06:41
persiaIt doesn't make any difference.06:41
micahgpersia: the links are sent to the ML?06:43
persiamicahg: Most upstream devs aren't involved enough to know how.  Also, lots of folk are helpful, and may know the upstream code, but may not be able to convince jcastro they qualify as "upstream devs".06:43
micahgpersia: fine, but I'd say most users don't know that coredumps might contain private info and make the bugs public06:45
micahgusers can be subscribed to private bugs so they can see them AFAIK06:45
persiaThe links are sent to the ML for all attachments (check your bugmail).  Lots of users don't know better, but that doesn't need to break things for people that do.06:46
micahgthe other way is not true06:46
persiaWe can't cure a lack of erudition by technical means.06:46
* persia curses OTR06:58
persiamicahg: Users can only be subscribed to private bugs.  They cannot subscribe to private bugs.06:58
micahgpersia: right, but the point is you can get someone to look at your bug if you want, it doesn't work the other way around06:59
persiaI don't understand.  Could you rephrase?07:00
micahgyou can subscribe an upstream dev to a bug to have him look at it, you can't really make a bug private again once it's public07:02
persiaWe're arguing about different things.07:03
persiaI completely agree you can't make a public bug private.07:03
micahgpersia: I'm saying that there's a workaround for your issue, but not for mine07:04
persiaI disagree that we can identify the set of folk who want to work on a bug unless we are them.07:04
persiaI also disagree that specific artifacts are inherently private, although I agree that some artifacts are more likely to contain private information than others.07:04
persiaWhat's the workaround for my issue?  I'd have to know in advance who would be able to look at the coredump.07:05
micahgpersia: right, so we would have the option to determine if an artifact isn't private and change the status of the bug/artifact07:05
persiaIf I don't know, I can't expose it, even if I know it contains no private information.07:05
micahgpersia: no, YOU would be able to, but not a regular user07:05
micahgI should add that to my bug07:06
persiaIf we change Malone so that we can't make a bug public if it has certain classes of artifact, we can't do that.07:06
persiaThat's my only argument against 505370.07:06
persiaIf it can be made public, then I'm fine.07:06
micahgpersia: I wuold suggest the same type of ACL that the Report a bug feature has in UBuntu07:06
micahgonly -control can see/do it07:06
persiaThat assumes that members of bug control know more about privacy.07:07
micahgpersia: that's one of the requirements for -control I thought...07:07
ddecatorknowing how to handle private bugs is07:07
persiaI argue that whether someone has done something to become a member of some group on launchpad is entirely unrelated to whether they understand if particular information is private.07:07
ddecatorknowing exactly how to determine if there is private info is not07:07
persiaYes, it's a requirement for control that one knows, but there are folk who are not in control that also know.07:08
persiaAnd there are lots of *other* projects that use Malone that have nothing to do with Ubuntu.07:08
micahgpersia: true, but I'm suggesting this for Ubuntu only07:08
persia(and may have completely different processes and procedures)07:08
persiaMalone doesn't work that way.07:08
micahgpersia: sure it does, we have special things in Ubuntu07:09
persiaLike what?07:09
micahgthe report a bug link is only hidden in UBuntu AFAIK07:09
persiaNo, it can be hidden for any project, as determined by project bug contact (or maybe owner or drivers, I forget)07:11
wgrantUh, well, actually.07:11
wgrantThe thing that redirects to the wiki page is an Ubuntu-specific hack.07:11
micahgI don't see a link like that anywhere07:11
wgrant'ubuntu' is hardcoded.07:11
wgrantThere are one or two other Ubuntu-specific hacks.07:12
persiaSurely those are bugs though, and we shouldn't be introducing more.07:12
* persia uses @ubuntu.com as default on LP (and it works). That just happens to be very fragile, and doesn't currently work for new people setting @ubuntu.com as default.07:13
wgrantThe ubuntu.com hack isn't actually in LP.07:13
wgrantIt just uses the LP database.07:13
arandBug #300777 as a dupe of Bug #418135, correct? (Just wanted another pair of eyes since they're security bugs.)09:07
ubot4`Launchpad bug 300777 in nautilus (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "cut and paste of link alters permissions of linked file. (dup-of: 418135)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30077709:07
ubot4`Launchpad bug 418135 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 6 other projects) "Permissions of symlinked source file/folder set to 777 if symlink is copied via nautilus (affects: 4) (dups: 1)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41813509:07
=== tester01_ is now known as uaa
persianigelb: I guess, but see comment #712:36
nigelbpersia: oh no12:36
nigelbthe bug is somewhere deep in pymsn code12:37
persiaSo there is a bug there, but no patch yet.12:37
nigelbor perhaps I should say deep in pymsn code too!12:37
persiaWell then.  That's a triaged bug, but doesn't have a patch yet.12:38
persiaSo you get to choose: triage a new bug, hunt a new patch, or go play pymsn developer :)12:38
* nigelb chooses first option12:38
nigelbor second12:38
persiaI think most of us would :)12:39
nigelbdo you want me to followup that bug?12:39
persiaImmaterial to me.  I don't use the software :)12:39
* nigelb too12:39
nigelbI dont use msn either12:39
persiaThe bug appears to be triaged, and doesn't have a patch.12:39
persiaNeeds someone to dig deep.12:40
nigelbsomeone who knows this stuff12:40
persiaIndeed.  Some of us may fall into that category, but I'm not sure either you or I do.12:40
nigelbI thought you did, but I certainly dont12:41
nigelbdid you get a copy of the mail I sent to brian?12:41
persiaI did.12:41
nigelbcan you poke him when you catch a hold of him so we can get things moving?12:42
nigelbI see a lot of patches that could be rejected right away12:42
persiaNah.  I know *lots* about shell and make, and I can usually fix a crash for any language (because 99% of the time it happens because the programmer didn't read the API docs carefully or the code is old), but when it comes to stuff like that, I'm lost.12:42
persianigelb: On which grounds?12:42
nigelboh, forget. silly me12:43
nigelbits a debdiff, thats supposed to be marked as patches :)12:43
nigelbwe need a way to remove the ones that have already been fixed out of the way12:44
persiaOther than "Fix Released" ?12:44
persiaWhat's an example?12:44
nigelbbug 43744612:44
ubot4`Launchpad bug 437446 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Need documentation on Grub2 (affects: 6) (dups: 2)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43744612:44
nigelbits a doc team bug12:44
stdoutshi I've got some problems with opensource radeon drivers, Xorg hangs and I dont know where to find any logs12:44
persiastdouts: Generally using `apport-bug xserver-xorg` will grab the right logs, etc.12:45
stdoutsI will try, but I have to manually reboot (with the power switch) after Xorg hangs12:46
persiaAnd X hangs whenever you boot?12:46
persiaOr does it stay up long enough to file a bug?12:47
stdoutsas soon as I run opengl apps12:47
persianigelb: That looks like the right status to me: rocket2dmn has set Fix Committed after committing to lucid.12:48
persianigelb: Just needs to be tracked so if/when an upload happens it gets closed.12:48
nigelbyup, thats where I was getting12:48
nigelbI removed Fix Commited bugs out of the way12:48
nigelbno its down to 199012:48
persiaAh, in your advanced search :)12:48
nigelbisn't that the right way to go about it?12:49
persiaWhat's that URL again?12:49
* persia feels like doing one12:49
stdoutspersia it mostly occurs if I run full screen opengl apps e.g. games/screen savers/s it usually crashes before I can get any feedback from console12:49
persiaWell, some people might set the wrong status, but that happens for all kinds of bugs.12:49
persiastdouts: Then reboot and file a bug *before* you play a game.12:49
persiaIf more details are required, the team that reviews those bugs will surely ask.12:50
stdoutsok thanks12:50
nigelbpersia: http://bit.ly/aHAaBP12:50
nigelb(its long to be pasted in one shot)12:50
nigelbah yes.  we also need a way to remove bugs that has fix ready12:51
persiahttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?orderby=-date_last_updated&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=on is shorter, but does the same thing.12:51
nigelbaha, how did you do that?12:53
persiaTook out all the &foo=& entries.  If they are going to be null anyway, no point including them in the URL.12:54
nigelbcustom edit, cheater ;)12:54
nigelbtake a look at bug 52068512:55
ubot4`Launchpad bug 520685 in nautilus (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Opening "Computer" with nautilus fails 1st time after login when using Extra Pane view (A.K.A "split view mode") (affects: 3)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52068512:55
persianigelb: that's in the sponsors queue, and looks like it just needs a sponsor.12:56
* persia is increasingly thinking we need to find a way to get sponsors queue stuff *out* of the bugtracker.12:56
nigelbpersia: oh, well, your cup of tea ;)12:56
* persia can't sponsor that. Needs a desktop dev or core dev12:57
persia(LP thinks I am, but I'm not really)12:57
nigelbme too.  I have seen at least 4 bugs in sponsor queue or release queue12:57
* nigelb looks on tweaking that link even furhter12:57
persiaLP can't handle negative subscription searches, unfortunately.12:57
nigelboh no12:58
nigelbso, we need to work with tags12:58
vishpersia: actually , someone added the sponsors for that.. isnt the new process to add the review team first?12:58
persiavish: Why?  That's a candidate for sponsoring.12:58
nigelbactually, review is already there12:58
persiaDoesn't need review.  Done by a developer, etc.12:58
persiavish: As I understand it, it works like this:12:58
persiaIf there is a patch or suggested solution, the review team reviews it, makes sure it's been reported to the right places, etc.  Basic triage stuff.12:59
persiaOnce it's known good, someone on the review team uploads it.12:59
persiaSometimes that person needs a sponsor, sometimes they don't.12:59
persiaBut stuff in the sponsors queue is *already* reviewed and prepared for upload.  Nothing for us to care about.13:00
nigelbvish: that doesn't need patch tag :)13:00
vishersia: righto , didnt know arand was a nautilus dev.. i just thought it was a proposed patch13:00
persia(well, nothing for us, as triagers, to care about.  Some of us are also developers)13:00
nigelbdebdiff != patch13:00
nigelbits already ready13:00
persiaWell, a debdiff *is* a patch, but a patch is not always a debidff.13:00
persiaKinda like squares and rectangles.13:01
nigelbwell, you got what I meant13:01
vishnigelb: heh ;p , i just followed what brian has been doing ;)  even a debdiff needs review13:01
nigelbvish: nope13:01
nigelbvish: debdiff is ready for upload13:01
persiavish: debdiff doesn't usually need review from the reviewers team.  That's for the sponsors.13:01
persiavish: I think you're getting confused between what bdmurray does personally, and what bdmurray's scripts do.13:01
vishpersia: ah maybe, gotcha13:02
nigelbbut that bug needs release team and an ffe though13:03
persiaNeeds a bunch of stuff, but that's arand's tasks (although we can help if asked or if it ages).13:03
vishnigelb: the extrapane bug needs FFE?13:03
nigelbanything not uploaded yet needs ffe13:03
persiavish: Sure.  It's a new feature, right?  An extra pane?13:04
persianigelb: That's not true.  Lots of stuff doesn't need FFe.  especially stuff like crash bugs.13:04
vishpersia: it is a bug in the extra pane , not adding new feature13:04
persiaOh, then it doesn't need FFe.13:04
persiaDoes it change the UI?13:04
persia(for screenshots & stuff)13:04
nigelbpersia: oh yeah! sorry.  mistook UI freeze for the beta freeze13:05
vishpersia: nope.. it is a bug caused when the extra pane is visible , which is not the default13:05
nigelbvish: lucid specific?13:05
vishnigelb: yup13:05
persiavish: defaults don't matter for freezes.13:05
vishnah , i was mentioning how the bug happens13:05
nigelbvish: aha, no wonder I couldn't reproduce it.  someone should mention it there13:05
persiavish: If it changes the UI, it needs a UIFe.  If it doesn't, it doesn't.  Simple.13:06
nigelbor I need to look for it ;)13:06
nigelbpersia: well, until thursday ;)13:06
vishnigelb: its int he first comment ;)13:06
nigelbvish: like I said, I need to start reading ;)13:06
persianigelb: That would be a BFe.13:06
nigelbpersia: hm, a bug I fixed need an IFe13:07
persianigelb: What's that?13:07
nigelbpersia: the short name thing13:08
nigelbI only noticed now that it changes UI and no one got it before then13:08
persiaOh, UIFe.13:08
persiaYeah, probably.13:08
vishpersia: yup , FF and UIF are clear , but i had one doubt , is the upstream string freeze the same as our FF13:08
persiavish: I don't tend to track upstream schedules.  Our string freeze is 25th March this year.13:09
vishah k..13:10
persia(which is why UI Freeze is so important: the docteam only has 3 weeks to complete all the docs)13:10
nigelbthoughts on whether I should go for UIFe or leave as such to be fixed upstream?13:11
flyingstar16stupid question: anybody knows if the membership to the bugsquad requires an approval time, after posting to the list (and being answered from - as I was - Marcos Vanetta?13:12
nigelbflyingstar16: it needs as much time as an admin needs to see it13:12
vishnigelb: why UIFe ? i still dont see the UI change there? [nautilus bug]13:12
nigelbvish: not that, I was talking about a bug I fixed13:13
vishnigelb: ah.. nvm me13:13
nigelbvish: bug 52974413:13
ubot4`Launchpad bug 529744 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "When creating a new user, "Shortname" should really be "Username" . (affects: 1)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52974413:13
vishoh that one13:13
nigelbflyingstar16: wait till tuesday, if no one replies, come in here and ask again :)13:14
nigelbvish: thoughts?13:14
* persia has a feeling it used to be "username" and someone changed it at some point13:14
nigelbpersia: yup.13:14
vishnigelb: probably needs a UIFe , there might be the need to update the documentation , probably you can ping seb128 to get that uploaded soonish13:15
nigelbworth taking is the trouble is my question ;)13:15
flyingstar16nigelb: thanks, I asked because I thought malev was an admin and forgot to approve :)13:15
persianigelb: In your dealing with patches thing, also consider those like bug #497149 where there's no patch for any of the current tasks.  We need to make those go away.13:15
ubot4`Launchpad bug 497149 in virtualbox-ose (Ubuntu) (and 15 other projects) "Packages using DKMS should make use of /usr/lib/dkms/common.postinst (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49714913:16
nigelbpersia: only tags can fix them.13:16
nigelbpersia: there is a patch and its already used.  so we need to remove all patch tags out of there13:17
persiaRIght, but that has to happen in a way that the script doesn't put them back.13:18
nigelbthe script might need to be killed at some point or deal with only new bugs13:18
persiaMaybe.  Check with bdmurray.13:18
persiaalso needs a clear definition of "New" being recent, being status "New", etc.13:19
nigelbpersia: this is bound to be complex13:19
persiayep :)13:19
nigelbsome time when brian gets the time, we need to have a chat with him (you need to be there too)13:20
flyingstar16I cannot reach search.gmane.org (bug trail follow link - launchpad-gm-scripts). Is it a known problem?13:23
nigelbseems to be down13:24
flyingstar16nmapping rain.gmane.org with the -PN option shows a lot of open ports, while nmapping search.gmane.org (which is a CNAME for rain.gmane.org) says "all scanned ports closed or filtered. That's strange13:26
nigelbsuggestions on dealing with bug 34609513:33
ubot4`Launchpad bug 346095 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "notify-osd doesn't honor my preference (affects: 27) (dups: 5)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34609513:33
nigelbclose as Won't Fix?13:33
nigelbit went onto a philosophic discussion about Ubuntu13:33
vishnigelb: we can leave the wont fixes to the devs13:36
vishnigelb: or to the adopters ;p13:36
vishpersia: for that notify-osd bug especially13:37
persiavish: But why generally?13:37
persiavish: More specifically, on what basis do you think we ought not treat a bug?13:37
vishpersia: isnt a "wont fix" supposed to be decided by the actual dev who is gonna say , "no"13:37
persiaIt already got made "Invalid" in comment #313:38
* persia is still reading13:38
vishhehe , i'm in there too..13:39
vishmacslow has set it to confirmed and dbarth the status to wishlist..13:40
nigelbvish: feels notalgic doesn't it ;)13:40
persianigelb: I think that the patch in comment #80 got lost in the noise.13:43
nigelbpersia: its turned philisophical at some point13:43
persiaIndeed, but none of that matters, really.13:43
nigelbso, its a patch for 9.0413:44
persianigelb: so in comment #90 mpt listed a wiki page talking about how the patch in comment #80 should work.13:44
vishpersia: there is an option for gravity , it needs to be set.13:44
persiaI'd call that needswork (also because the patch is outdated).13:44
persiavish: The GRAVITY patch was applied upstream, and is available in lucid?13:45
vishit has been available since karmic.. the notification can be set to top right or middle13:45
vishnot sure ,if that was the patch used though13:45
persiavish: Ah, that's different than the extended gravity support in the patch in comment 80.13:45
persiaThat patch gives *lots* more options for gravity.13:46
persia(no UI, just gconf keys for those that want it)13:46
vishoh , but[i think] it would give problems with the append option in notify-osd..13:47
vishpersia: eitherway , the lower position was supposed to be done for lucid , and no one seems to have fixed13:48
* nigelb is going to add tag patch-needswork13:48
vishthere was a huge discussion regarding this on ayatana :s13:48
persiavish: The patch seems to be available.13:48
persiavish: Just needs someone to test the patch, and get it applied.13:49
vishpersia: yup it needs work, iirc the patch was supposed to place it in the lower corner, which would cause problems when text gets appended.. that was why the position of a little higher in the lower right was considered13:50
persiaAh.  Needs delicate work :)13:50
vishsupposed to allow user to*13:50
persiavish: So you think patch-submitted-upstream + patch-rejected-upstream are better tags?13:51
persiavish: Or just patch-submitted-upstream + patch-needswork ?13:51
nigelbI remember bug 533369 from -motu13:52
ubot4`Launchpad bug 533369 in debootstrap (Ubuntu) "Fails to debootstrap squeeze chroot due to missing apt-get (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53336913:52
vishpatch-needswork is probably closer..  but the problem is more there than the patch , it would allow setting it but the background work in notify-osd isnt done yet :(13:52
nigelbshall I propose an SRU for this ?13:52
persianigelb: That's a question better asked in -motu, but I'd think so.13:53
nigelbits submitted for patch review :)13:54
persiaWell, review the patch then.  But if you're processing as SRU, you're probably acting as a developer.13:54
persiaAlthough there are certainly some cases where triagers propose SRUs13:54
persia(patch review is a messy area, somewhere between the two groups)13:55
nigelbyeah, its a mix of -motu, -devel, and -bugs ! ugh!13:55
persiaThat might be how it fell through the cracks :)13:55
nigelbafter being a tool which all devs have handy13:56
nigelblater folks.  off14:06
mtx_initis there a good rss feed or something to keep track of major bugs in Foss in general?17:39
mrandmtx_init: Would that be major bugs reported, or confirmed?  Would it include bugs in unreleased code, or only released stuff?  I don't know how you'd possibly keep up with such a thing.  There are simply too many projects.17:49
mtx_initmrand: Like the recent sudo bug with sudoedit, as a unix admin that would help me,  But I just dont have the time in the day to read tons of mailing lists,17:50
mtx_initmaybe just really critical ones.17:51
vishbdmurray: not that is matters anymore, found a trasnlations channel >  #ubuntu-translators  ;)17:52
mrandmtx_init: Ok, so only criticial bugs in released/deployed versions.  Interesting idea.  The hard part would be figuring out how to gather the info.  I suppose it could rely on submissions to a moderated email list (for archive purposes), which echoed to rss and all the social networks.  It would need to be moderated to keep the signal to noise ratio high, for the exact reason you describe.18:06
mtx_initmrand: software could be writer to watch mailing lists, presenting items most popular.18:09
mrandmtx_init: sounds complicated.   How does it filter out important stuff, which may actually only have a single notification/message, while ignoring flame war topics? each -announce type mailing lists are low volume enough, but they also typically contain new version notifications.  If you aggregate those together, I think the volume might still be much higher than what you are looking for.18:12
mrandmtx_init: ubuntu-security-announce mailing list might be the closest to what you're looking for.18:21
crimsunok, triaged all 540 pulse bugs over the past couple days. 0 new bugs.18:25
mrandcrimsun: WOW.  outstanding!18:26
crimsunthis is hardly the first time I've done it18:26
mrandDoesn't make it less impressive ;-)18:27
mtx_initmrand: thank you18:27
mtx_initil take a look18:27
bcurtiswx_crimsun: show off18:39
crimsunbcurtiswx_: eah, cos I *love* bugs.18:40
* micahg needs to find time to do that for firefox :)18:41
bcurtiswx_crimsun: you're such a bug hugger!18:41
crimsunit's much easier when I have coffee, noise cancelling headphones, and metal \m/18:41
BUGabundomicahg: ahah18:42
bcurtiswx_don't like coffee, love no noise, and can't stand metal \m/.. i find classical to be more focus assisting18:42
crimsuntakes all sorts18:42
BUGabundooh I think FF has more then 500 bugs :D18:42
micahgBUGabundo: approx 1500 NEW bugs :)18:43
crimsunI haven't even started linux and alsa-driver :-)18:43
bcurtiswx_yeah crimsun: why isn't PA perfect yet.. huh huh huhhhh??18:43
micahgBUGabundo: after Lucid release I think I'll go on a bug spree :)18:43
crimsunbcurtiswx_: no one got me a pony, duh18:44
bcurtiswx_crimsun: i blame Ted18:44
BUGabundomicahg: the longer you wait, the bigger it gets18:44
micahgBUGabundo: my goal is to get good software in Lucid archive first :)18:44
micahgthen make it better18:45
bcurtiswx_micahg: skip FFX, make a better flash player :P18:45
micahgbcurtiswx_: can you get me the source :P18:45
bcurtiswx_micahg: i meant start from scratch... O:-)18:46
micahgbcurtiswx_: after Lucid I might try to hack JIRA as a bug tracker for LP which will allow us to link to upstream flash bugs18:46
bcurtiswx_micahg: awesome, gl with that18:46
BUGabundobcurtiswx +118:47
bcurtiswx_#532799 what do I say. I just don't think thats worth of a bug and/or wishlist18:50
bcurtiswx_bug #53279918:50
ubot4`Launchpad bug 532799 in empathy (Ubuntu) "the first chan window takes 5 seconds to appear (affects: 1)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53279918:50
=== radoe_ is now known as radoe
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel

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