titeuf_87code looks fairly simple to understand. What's currently being worked on and what could you use help with?00:05
ubuntujenkinscurrently we could do with help on the actual taking screenshots bit Red_HamsterX has had a look at is so best to ask him, not sure if he is here right now00:06
ubuntujenkinsI am being stupid and I think it is because it it to late at night but I can't get the command os.system("gnome-session-save --kill --silent") to run when the countdown hits 000:07
ubuntujenkinsshould be very easy but apparently not00:08
titeuf_87you would do something like if counter == 0: os.system("...") else: self.builder.get_object("...00:09
titeuf_87split over four lines00:09
Red_HamsterXI'm here. Just a bit busy.00:11
Red_HamsterXA primitive screenshot module has been added. I'll flesh it out tomorrow.00:11
titeuf_87ah ok00:11
ubuntujenkinssorry could you please explain the server stuff very quickly00:12
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87 has joined us if you hadn't gathered00:13
titeuf_87I think I got it: quickshot uses bzr to get the latest screenshots, looks what's missing, present those to the user, and uses bzr again to add those missing screenshots00:13
Red_HamsterXThat was the old model.00:13
Red_HamsterXI'm working on implementing something HTTP-based.00:13
titeuf_87oh ok00:13
ubuntujenkinsthe varification of the user for bzr was to complex00:13
Red_HamsterXIt'll use POST + meta-data + credentials to submit screenshots and GET to find out what needs to be screencapps and any parameters about what need to be collected.00:14
Red_HamsterXThis decouples it from bzr and launchpad, which reduces the complexity of setup and deployment.00:14
Red_HamsterXIt technically makes the quickshot user optional, too, but that may stick around since it's easier to do things liek change resolution and configuration settings in a throwaway account.00:15
ubuntujenkinsalso the quickshot user has the default lucid setup00:15
Red_HamsterXI'll be exposing a Python API for the HTTP stuff later tonight/early tomorrow, once I finish other obligations that have recently arisen.00:15
Red_HamsterXYes, that, too.00:15
Red_HamsterXNo weird themes.00:16
Red_HamsterXNothing that might intimidate a user looking for colours and icons that are still alien.00:16
Red_HamsterXI just joined the project this week, so I haven't actually contributed much more than ideas yet.00:17
Red_HamsterXMy one-hour screencap-and-upload hack is in quickshot/lib.00:18
ubuntujenkinswhich branch?00:18
Red_HamsterXI made a mistake when checking it out on my netbook.00:18
Red_HamsterXAnd then saved to the wrong place.00:18
ubuntujenkinsi can't see it.00:19
Red_HamsterXMaybe it's in some sort of freakish limbo.00:19
Red_HamsterXOh, well. It'll get to main somehow.00:20
ubuntujenkinsI always check before i push branches as mine is low traffic I just check the web interface00:20
Red_HamsterXWorst-case, I just diff against a prior revision and patch.00:20
Red_HamsterXGot a link to this interface?00:20
ubuntujenkinsis where i check00:21
ubuntujenkinsits only be open to all in the last 2 days00:21
ubuntujenkinssince revison 4000:21
Red_HamsterXYeah... I don't see it. Yet it--00:21
Red_HamsterXNo, it's not in yours.00:21
Red_HamsterXI was sshed into my netbook when I thought I mangically found it.00:21
Red_HamsterXbzr is confusing. :(00:21
ubuntujenkinslol that makes sense00:22
ubuntujenkinsadd it to main if you can I am going to merge mine into main now00:23
Red_HamsterXMerge yours first. I'll just scp and add it.00:23
Red_HamsterXLike, here.00:23
Red_HamsterXI know my desktop is running main.00:23
IlyaHaykinsongodbyk: is there an inline comment?00:24
IlyaHaykinsonsomething like \comment{foo}00:24
godbykIlyaHaykinson: nope.00:24
godbykwell, lemme check.. the comment package may have one.00:24
IlyaHaykinsonit may help to have these inline comments that we can insert in places, and make them show up in some prominent color00:25
IlyaHaykinsonduring development00:25
IlyaHaykinsonbut then turn them off toward production.00:25
ubuntujenkinssilly question but how do i merge it correctly? I only started using bzr at the start of this project00:25
IlyaHaykinsoni'm thinking like the little [fact?] or [neutrality violation] supertitles in Wikipedia00:25
Red_HamsterXWanna create a global 'settings.py' module with things like 'DEBUG = True'?00:25
Red_HamsterXOr do you mean for developers only?00:26
godbykIlyaHaykinson: Nope. Just \begin{comment}...\end{comment} (which you can use inline, even though it's a bit bulky)00:26
Red_HamsterXIf it's just for developers, #FIXME and #TODO usually get special treatment from editors.00:26
godbykIlyaHaykinson: Ah, you want to insert comments that appear in the PDF?00:26
Red_HamsterXOh, for the manual proper.00:26
Red_HamsterXIgnore me.00:26
IlyaHaykinsongodbyk: yeah, that could be useful00:27
IlyaHaykinsonthat way it'll be very obvious in the compiled version00:27
godbykIlyaHaykinson: yeah, I can do that. give me just a sec.00:27
titeuf_87ubuntujenkins, bzr push lp:quickshot ? Haven't used bazaar much yet myself so not sure if that's correct00:27
Red_HamsterXubuntujenkins, I have no idea for sure, but I think it's either join or push.00:27
godbykthere's a really nice pkg for doing just that.00:27
Red_HamsterXI'm trying to push from my netbook.00:28
ubuntujenkinscool I will wait a moment00:29
Red_HamsterXYeah, push seemed to work.00:29
Red_HamsterXI added rev 32 and my "dunno, lawl" rev 33.00:29
manualbothttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/32 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 3200:29
manualbothttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/33 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 3300:29
Red_HamsterXThe bot needs to be just a little less aggressive...00:30
ubuntujenkinsit is in main now https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot00:30
Red_HamsterXUsing 'bzr merge' now.00:31
godbykIlyaHaykinson: does 'kpsewhich todonotes.sty' return anythingn for you?00:31
Red_HamsterXI got my changes...00:31
godbykIlyaHaykinson: I'm going to finish updating the install-pkgs.sh script, then I'll push the changes and tell you how to do the notes.00:31
Red_HamsterXI don't see yours, ubuntujenkins.00:31
ubuntujenkinsnot merged yet00:31
ubuntujenkinstrying now00:32
Red_HamsterXI should grab the Lucid ISO so I can do stuff in a real environment.00:32
ubuntujenkinshow do I fix conflicts?00:32
Red_HamsterXbzr resolve <file>00:32
Red_HamsterXThat part's the same as SVN.00:33
ubuntujenkinswell I have pushed rev 34 lets hope I didn't break it00:35
manualbothttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/34 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 3400:35
godbykIlyaHaykinson: I just pushed rev 431.00:35
manualbothttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/431 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 43100:35
godbykIlyaHaykinson: It uses the todonotes package.00:36
godbykIlyaHaykinson: Run the install-pkgs.sh script to make sure you have it installed.00:36
Red_HamsterXIf you broke it, we can just roll back.00:36
ubuntujenkinsit appears to work00:36
ubuntujenkinslooks like it any way00:36
godbykIlyaHaykinson: Then you can type \todo{Hey, someone fix this!} in the doc and it'll show up in the PDF as a margin note.00:36
Red_HamsterXbzr pull seems to have grabbed all of your new stuff.00:37
godbykIlyaHaykinson: If you think we should have different classes of TODO notes, make a list and let me know and I can write some custom commands for them.00:37
godbykIlyaHaykinson: (Give 'em different colors, etc.)00:37
titeuf_87same here, I got both of all your changes00:38
ubuntujenkinsso titeuf_87 now main is up to date if you can get it actually caputing screenshots that would be great. the list of screen shots is  http://paste.ubuntu.com/389962/00:38
Red_HamsterXWe are learning. :)00:38
ubuntujenkinsI have a list of language codes somewhere that we haev to look for in the users setting I will look for it in the morning00:39
Red_HamsterXtiteuf_87, while you could get it capturing screenshots, I know how to do that and should have a fairly robust collection of easy-to-use functions tomorrow/Monday.00:39
ubuntujenkinsRed_HamsterX if you can find something for titeuf_87 to do I am going to go to bed as I have loads of uni work to do tomorrow00:40
ubuntujenkinsnight all00:40
Red_HamsterXThough you could like the timer and my grab-active-window function right now to make sure it wirtes a screenshot file to disk.00:40
titeuf_87night ubuntujenkins00:40
ubuntujenkinsthanks all00:40
Red_HamsterXG'night and good luck~00:40
titeuf_87I can look into that :)00:40
Red_HamsterXWhat's your background with Python?00:40
titeuf_87ummm...been using it for a couple of years now for hobby stuff, although never really anything big as I never get motivated to finish my projects00:41
Red_HamsterXI've got some projects listed at http://uguu.ca/ and I contribute patches against open issues when I can.00:43
ubuntujenkinswell main is broken I am actually off to bed now night :-)00:43
Red_HamsterXBroken's fine.00:43
Red_HamsterXIt means titeuf_87 can fix bugs and make it un-broken.00:43
Red_HamsterX(While I work on the non-GUI stuff)00:44
titeuf_87ok, I'll see what all works/doesn't work00:44
Red_HamsterX(After finally finishing these invoices)00:44
Red_HamsterXI'm still quite new to the project.00:44
Red_HamsterXI'm confident in my skills, but I'm not fully aware of the scope of what needs to be done.00:45
Red_HamsterXSo I can't really delegate effectively.00:45
Red_HamsterXI've taken responsibility for the server communication and actual screencapping routines for now, though.00:45
Red_HamsterXWith intent to deliver ASAP.00:46
Red_HamsterXI'll be coding in accordance with PEP-8, but I don't think the project's mature enough to require a convention from everyone. Just make sure your code, and any code you hack against, is consistent, I suppose.00:46
titeuf_87it's a bit of a mix already in there :)00:47
Red_HamsterXI think the current goal is "make it work", not "make it publication-worthy".00:48
Red_HamsterXWhich is fine.00:48
Red_HamsterXThings are more fun that way.00:48
* Red_HamsterX stops distracting himself and finishes invoicing people so he can get to work on what actually matters: this.00:49
titeuf_87heh, have fun!00:49
IlyaHaykinsongodbyk: thx for the \todo command00:55
godbykIlyaHaykinson: np. If you want, I can set up different types of \todo commands that have different colors.00:55
IlyaHaykinsonlet me try it out00:56
IlyaHaykinsonlooks really good. thanks again! will make editing and review easier.00:57
IlyaHaykinsoninstead of just using %comments, this todo command will make it very obvious to every reader, instead of just people pulling up the latex source00:58
godbykIlyaHaykinson: That's true. Just depends on who you want to see the comment. :)00:59
IlyaHaykinsonyes. though at the moment i would say _everyone_.01:00
godbykand it's a one-line edit to disable all the \todos.01:00
godbykthere's also a \listoftodos command I can add that'll give an index to the TODOs (say, after the table of contents)01:01
IlyaHaykinsonhm, let's leave as-is for now.01:02
IlyaHaykinsonalright, gotta go. l8r01:03
godbyksee ya01:04
semioticroboticSome folders in my music library have little "lock" icons in the upper righthand corner.  What does that mean?01:04
Red_HamsterXIt means they're read-only.01:04
semioticrobotic...and more importantly, how do I get rid of them?01:04
Red_HamsterXAre you comfortable with terminals?01:04
semioticroboticwell, that makes sense, since I last used the drive on a Mac01:04
semioticroboticpermissions are probably all messed up01:04
semioticroboticI'm a novice with the terminal01:04
semioticroboticgetting more comfortable01:04
Red_HamsterXYeah, probably.01:04
Red_HamsterXChances are they belong to another user.01:05
Red_HamsterXOS X likes to start numbering users at 500.01:05
semioticroboticmakes total sense01:05
Red_HamsterXUbuntu likes 1000.01:05
semioticroboticoh, lovely01:05
Red_HamsterXIt's easy to fix by command-line, though.01:05
semioticroboticis it difficult to explain?01:05
titeuf_87you could right-click on it, open the properties and look at the permissions tab, can change owner/perms there too01:05
Red_HamsterXOpen a terminal and move to the directory containing the files.01:06
Red_HamsterXtiteuf_87, that'll probably fail without super-user access.01:06
titeuf_87ah good point!01:06
Red_HamsterXI'd be amazed (in horror) if you could say you're the owner of files without such access.01:06
semioticroboticLooks like Red_HamsterX is right01:07
Red_HamsterXIt's fine.01:07
Red_HamsterXChanging permissions is easy.01:07
Red_HamsterXLike, one-command easy.01:07
semioticroboticlet me get my tea off the stove ... I'll be right back01:08
semioticroboticokay, back01:10
semioticroboticsorry to keep you waiting01:10
semioticrobotici'll load a terminal01:10
semioticroboticRed_HamsterX: Okay, I'm at a terminal01:11
semioticroboticwhy are some folders highlighted green in the terminal?01:12
Red_HamsterXThey should all be highlighted.01:13
Red_HamsterXIt's just a niceity to make it more obvious what types of files you're dealing with.01:13
Red_HamsterXls is aliased to 'ls --color' by default.01:13
semioticroboticin the terminal, some folders are green, others aren't01:14
semioticroboticah, okay01:14
semioticroboticwell, then that's odd01:14
semioticroboticbecause all the folders with music should be green ... but they're not01:14
semioticroboticoh well01:14
semioticroboticsave that problem for later01:14
Red_HamsterXMaybe it's related to permissions...01:15
semioticroboticcould be01:15
Red_HamsterXCan you use 'ls -l' to see if anything's weird about them?01:15
Red_HamsterXBy 'weird', I mean 'different from those you created youself'.01:15
semioticroboticit's permissions01:15
semioticroboticyou were right01:15
Red_HamsterXOwnership or access?01:16
semioticrobotichow can I tell?01:16
semioticroboticall I can see is that the combinations of wxr stuff is different for different colors01:16
Red_HamsterXdrwxr-xr-x 2 flan flan 4096 2010-03-06 16:25 lib01:16
Red_HamsterXOwner: user flan, group flan01:17
Red_HamsterXThat's probably what we'll have to fix with the music files themselves.01:17
semioticroboticdrwxr-xr-x 1 99 99  4 2010-02-07 17:20 The Mighty Mighty Bosstones01:17
semioticroboticdrwxrwxrwx 1 99 99  5 2009-12-31 14:21 The Postal Service01:17
Red_HamsterXI think we just found the problem.01:18
semioticroboticyou can see the differences there01:18
Red_HamsterX'99 99'01:18
Red_HamsterX99 is Apple's generic "I dunno who you are" number.01:18
semioticroboticevery folder has 99 9901:18
Red_HamsterXYou have nothing with uid or gid 99 on your Ubuntu system.01:18
Red_HamsterXSo let's change that.01:18
Red_HamsterXsudo chown -R flan:flan *01:19
Red_HamsterXWhere 'flan' is your name.01:19
Red_HamsterXIt's really mine.01:19
Red_HamsterXYou can't have it.01:19
semioticroboticwill these changes prohibit me from using this disk on my Mac?01:19
semioticroboticall my music is on an external drive that I swap between machines01:19
Red_HamsterXIt'll flip the lock.01:19
Red_HamsterXOkay, in that case, the problem may well be different.01:19
semioticroboticglad I mentioned that then!01:20
Red_HamsterXI was under the impression that this was an HFS+ partition.01:20
Red_HamsterXNot FAT32.01:20
Red_HamsterXWhich is likely the case if you carry it everywhere.01:20
semioticroboticActually, it's HFS01:20
semioticrobotic(non-jounaled, I believe)01:21
Red_HamsterXOh. Then this change would flip the lock.01:21
semioticroboticI just move the drive between Macs in the house, my Ubuntu machine, and my television01:21
Red_HamsterXThe files would still be readable, but not writeable.01:21
Red_HamsterX...You have a TV that understands HFS?01:21
semioticroboticI have a Western Digital Media Center, which reads the HFS drive and sends files to the TV01:22
semioticroboticSo now, the TV isn't doing the work01:22
semioticroboticer, no01:22
Red_HamsterXOkay, then, I dunno what you should do...01:22
Red_HamsterXIf you change ownership, it'll just go the other way.01:22
semioticroboticI see01:22
Red_HamsterXThe Macs will say "I can't write to this".01:22
Red_HamsterXBut Ubuntu will be happy.01:23
semioticroboticthere isn't a way to make all the folders read/write from any platform?01:23
Red_HamsterXProbably best to leave ownership alone if the Macs are where your music comes from.01:23
semioticroboticor, the other way around01:23
semioticroboticokay, I gotcha01:23
semioticroboticsounds fine01:23
Red_HamsterXThere is a way, but it's implicitly insecure.01:23
semioticroboticcan I ask you another question?01:23
Red_HamsterXFrom the current location, 'sudo chmod o=rwx *'01:24
Red_HamsterXIf your directories are one layer deep, you'll then be able to write to them from anywhere.01:24
semioticroboticI see01:24
semioticroboticbut it's my understanding that Ubuntu does not support HFS very well01:24
semioticroboticis that true?01:24
Red_HamsterXThe insecurity comes from the fact that, when the thing is connected, any user ont he system can write to them, too.01:24
Red_HamsterXI don't know.01:25
Red_HamsterXI'm not a Mac person.01:25
semioticroboticah, I see how that can be insecure, yes01:25
semioticroboticwell, I'm hoping the current Macbook will be my last Mac01:25
semioticroboticmy next primary computer will be running Ubuntu01:25
semioticroboticand at that point01:26
semioticroboticI'll probably reformat my media drive to something more universally acceptable01:26
* Red_HamsterX sets up his Lucid system with only one partition.01:28
Red_HamsterXStupidity, thy manifestation be me!01:29
semioticroboticspeaking of which01:29
semioticroboticwhat do you recommend for backup software on Ubuntu?01:29
Red_HamsterXOh, and automatic login, too.01:29
semioticroboticyou don't make backups either?01:29
Red_HamsterXI have RAID-1 on everything and ten-minute rsync.01:29
semioticroboticwell then01:30
* semioticrobotic laughs01:30
Red_HamsterXAll code is managed by subversion, with off-site backups.01:30
semioticroboticdon't see much need for a backup solution, then!01:30
Red_HamsterXI burn DVDs sometimes, but only for content that's archive-only.01:30
semioticroboticmakes sense01:31
semioticroboticI am running Ubuntu on my ultraportable01:31
semioticroboticand using that system to test various applications01:31
Red_HamsterXOh. Well, I suppose my Eee isn't RAIDed.01:31
Red_HamsterXBut it rsyncs locally to an SD card.01:31
Red_HamsterXAnd this system.01:31
semioticroboticso I can make a smooth transition from my Mac when I finally ditch it for a new machine01:31
semioticroboticrsyncing to an SD card is a great idea01:32
Red_HamsterXIt's the offline fallback.01:32
Red_HamsterXIf it can't connect to this thing, it goes there.01:32
semioticroboticwell, the software center offers several solutions, so I'll just play with those01:33
semioticroboticI think BackInTime is an rsync GUI.  I'll start with that.01:33
Red_HamsterXI'm primarily a Debian user, so I'm still kinda old-school in terms of scripting things.01:33
semioticroboticthanks for your help Red_HamsterX01:34
semioticroboticI appreciate it01:34
semioticroboticI'm off to make some manual edits now01:34
semioticroboticthanks for helping a n00b with some pretty basic stuff :)01:34
Red_HamsterXEveryone has to start learning somewhere.01:34
Red_HamsterXAnd you've already got enoughe nthusiasm for the technology to compensate for any n00bish mistakes. :)01:35
semioticroboticI try to learn one or two new Ubuntu things each day01:35
semioticroboticha!  well, that's true01:35
semioticroboticI'm very willing to learn01:35
semioticroboticjust need some help along the way01:35
Red_HamsterXAnd to teach.01:35
Red_HamsterXElse you wouldn't be there.01:35
Red_HamsterXbe here*01:35
semioticroboticwell, that's true, too01:36
semioticrobotictake care01:36
Red_HamsterXYou, too.01:36
titeuf_87Red_HamsterX, the list of screenshots that still needs to be taken is something you'll take care of?01:45
Red_HamsterXtiteuf_87, no, it is not. I am not sure who is co-ordinating that, but godbyk may know.01:48
Red_HamsterXThat's something you could probably look into, though.01:48
Red_HamsterXPlanning how to prompt users for that stuff/building a workflow outline for each one.01:49
godbykI don't know that anyone's really coordinating it yet.01:49
godbykIn the manual, we write \screenshotTODO{Description of screenshot.}01:49
Red_HamsterXI'm just focusing on the libraries that will manage the actual actions, not the actual business logic.01:49
Red_HamsterXDo we have a lit of programs?01:49
godbykThe descriptions of all the screenshots get added to a screenshots.log file when you compile the manual.01:49
godbykBut something more formal should be done with the descriptions, probably.01:50
godbykRed_HamsterX: The list looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/389997/01:50
Red_HamsterXI hope Lucid's login screen won't stay so barren...01:51
Red_HamsterXI like the session/language/action prompts.01:51
Red_HamsterXWait... We're going into Launchpad?01:52
Red_HamsterX(Line 28)01:52
Red_HamsterXI think I have another thing for humphrybc to complain about.01:56
Red_HamsterXTwo, actually.01:56
titeuf_87Red_HamsterX, I've pushed my changes to a new branch on launchpad02:10
titeuf_87I'm going to work more on it tomorrow, bed time now. Night all02:10
ubuntujenkinshello everyone10:43
ubuntujenkinsTommyBrunn the countdown now works thanks to titeuf_87 who has joined the team, main is broken but has been fixed in titeuf_87's branch.10:46
TommyBrunnOh, nice!10:47
TommyBrunnHe should really speak to Neil before starting hacking on taking screenshots, though.10:49
TommyBrunnHe already has a lib ready for that.10:49
ubuntujenkinsthats cool neil and simon spoke last night10:51
ubuntujenkinsbrb just rebooting10:53
rudihey guys12:51
rudire: the chapter on hardware-prefs etc12:51
rudii've found a gui app to replace all the cli commands i wrote up yesterday and it is the repos12:52
rudiand seems  to work allright12:52
ubuntujenkinshow is everyone at the moment?16:33
titeuf_87pretty good! And you?16:37
ubuntujenkinsI am good thinking i shoudl do some coursework16:38
ubuntujenkinsand not be on irc16:39
vishthorwil: i think we should stay away from using purple , since it is reserved for canonical19:43
thorwilvish: added manual title page tests to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork (look for 2010-03-07 a to e)19:43
vishwe can use the orange shades19:43
thorwilvish: right. that's why the mockup wallpaper is full of it ;p19:44
vishthorwil: heh , it is a flaw it their standards.. or they could just say "Canonical did it" ;p19:45
thorwilvish: too much of that orange is just agressive, so we need something else19:45
vishthorwil: that was the first thing that struck me as very odd... but it might be the argument i assumed19:46
vish true..19:46
ubuntujenkinsI like option e, how is purple reserved for conical you can't patent a colour19:46
thorwilubuntujenkins: vish thinks that because the ubuntu has orange and the canonical logo uses aubergine19:47
vishubuntujenkins: not patent .. the purpose of the branding is anything having lot of purple means canonical19:47
vishthorwil: not me thinks.. that was what sabdfl blogged19:47
vishthorwil: but personally i like e :)19:47
ubuntujenkinsI think that the fact that so much purple is in the theme and boot splash means we cn still use it I see vish's point though19:48
thorwilMark wrote: "The use of Aubergine indicates Commercial involvement of one form or another, while Orange is a signal of community engagement", so based on that vish is right19:48
vishubuntujenkins: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/30819:49
thorwilit really sucks hard that it's exactly the reverse of how i feel the colors :/19:49
vishthorwil: i was thinking we could incorporate the dots19:50
ubuntujenkinsI think overall that vish is right but I like the desgins :-), keep up the good work.19:50
ubuntujenkinsboth of you19:50
thorwilvish: we could, but weren't the examples on dark ground, indicating corporate, too? should not force it anyway and i don't feel like trying, actually19:56
vishoh , was it.. i didnt understand the dots fully..19:58
vishthorwil: i think sabdfl missed a paragraph that was given to him ;p19:58
thorwilvish: why, where?19:58
vishthorwil: it just seemed the dots wasnt fully explained , or i didnt understand it fully.. anyways , just kidding ;)19:59
vishi got the engineered part.. but then it went over my head20:00
vishah righto.. more space == user20:04
vishoops other way ;p20:04
vishthorwil: IMO , we use "e" without the top curve but with the band?20:06
vishor we can do the curve in dots with orange[which we have to make sure doesnt get too much]20:07
thorwilvish: dot grid emphasizes technical character, something i wanted to stay clear of20:09
vishah ok, good..20:09
thorwilvish: also shouldn't be seen to enthusiastic about this new visual identity stuff ;)20:09
vishlol ;p20:09
thorwilvish: "e" with band but no top doesn't doi it for me20:10
vishthorwil: how about using orange for the curve and the logo , but we use grey for the icons?20:12
thorwilvish: added "f", just other color20:12
thorwilvish: trying20:12
vishhehe , i was doing the same.. /me lets you have the fun20:13
thorwilnah, too hard/dry20:15
thorwilgotta love inkscape: remove 664 unused definitions20:17
vishthorwil: after you mentioned the camera flash being close , i think we can use the fill for it and drop the stroke , looks good that way too20:20
thorwilvish: yes, the same thought occurred to me. otherwise the stroke would need to fixed, it's too thin20:20
thorwilvish: svg current state in https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/ubuntu_manual_cover20:21
thorwillp doesn't let me get to the file online20:22
vishneat , ty20:22
Red_HamsterXubuntujenkins, automated capture-and-upload test successful. :)20:28
Red_HamsterXI need to refactor, but it's simple and it works well.20:28
ubuntujenkinssweet thats so cool thanks for sorting that.20:29
ubuntujenkinsdid it automatialy choos the window?20:29
Red_HamsterXIT just grabs the active one right now.20:29
Red_HamsterXSo the logical workflow is to set a timer.20:29
titeuf_87timer is in my branch, it waits three seconds, hides the window and take a screenshot20:30
Red_HamsterXStart timer; give user n seconds to give focus to the right window; capture; let user say "yes, this is what I want", then upload.20:30
ubuntujenkinscool sound good, is there a logical naming system in the upload? how does the focuse thing work when the user has focus follow mouse set?20:31
titeuf_87quickshot makes a new user, so the focus follow mouse won't be a problem there as that's not the default20:31
Red_HamsterXNothing too logical right now. Just 'program-name@language@timestamp.png' for debugging purposes.20:32
ubuntujenkinsgood point silly me20:32
Red_HamsterX(Which will make it pretty easy to use thumbnail previews)20:32
ubuntujenkinsthat is a good naming system could be program-name-chapter at the start instead20:32
Red_HamsterXA simple script could be used to arrange these things into directories.20:32
ubuntujenkinssorry I am a slow at typing20:33
ubuntujenkinsthat good I have the driectories set up in this branch20:33
Red_HamsterXI'll need to discuss tagging meta-data with the writers when I have more of the API defined.20:33
* ubuntujenkins looks for link20:33
Red_HamsterXIt's easy to add stuff now, though.20:33
Red_HamsterXJust populate a dictionary and deconstruct an associative array.20:33
Red_HamsterXTo go backwards, we should just need a regular expression and os.rename().20:34
ubuntujenkinsbzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual-screenshots has a folder for each language as of 28/2/201020:34
Red_HamsterXI'm going to focus on functionality before form. Once all the workflow logic is done, writing another layer to convert to the logical structure will be easy.20:35
ubuntujenkinsfunctionality is definatley key20:36
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk I noticed on the to do list you are to be e-mailed on the addition of more language please can you let me know when we get more?20:37
godbykubuntujenkins: Sure, if I hear anything, I'll pass it along.20:38
godbykGenerally, they just show up.20:38
godbykI think another was added in the last update.20:38
ubuntujenkinsgood to see more but hard to keep track, I will have a look for the missing one20:38
godbykThere are now 48 .po files.20:38
ubuntujenkinsdefinalty one missing20:38
godbykI think it was one of the Ms, but I don't recally.20:39
godbykrecall, rather.20:39
ubuntujenkinsquickshot has come along so quickly in the last few days, how long untill we might have a fully functioning program titeuf_87 and Read_HamsterX?20:39
ubuntujenkinsok thanks godbyk have you got the link to the compiled manuals on your server?20:39
titeuf_87right now the next biggest missing feature is for it to get what screenshots still needs to be done in what languages20:40
ubuntujenkinsevery screen shot will be done in every language the list stands at ....20:41
* ubuntujenkins finds it20:41
ubuntujenkinshttp://paste.ubuntu.com/390593/ is the screenshots list20:43
ubuntujenkinsI will put an e-mail out to the list asking for people to add more screenshots in if they need them20:43
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87 are you member of https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual its an open team but its the project that we are doing quickshot for20:45
Red_HamsterXEveryone in Quickshot is part of that team.20:46
Red_HamsterXIt's a sub-team.20:46
titeuf_87I am, cause I joined the quickshot dev team I'm in that one too20:46
ubuntujenkinscool I wasnt aware I joined quickshot later than the manual20:46
titeuf_87would using bzr to retrieve the already made screenshots be a good option to see what still needs to be done?20:50
ubuntujenkinsthere are no offically done screen shots already.20:51
ubuntujenkinsThe aim is to do them all with quickshot20:52
ubuntujenkinsthere are few very rough ones done by ben in lp:ubuntu-manual these were more to see what lucid looked like20:52
titeuf_87hmm, quickshot uses bzr to get the screenshots, see what's missing (for now that would be everything), propose those to the user. When the user takes the screenshot and uploads it, I guess they still need to be approved beforehand then? Whoever approves them could put them bazaar then20:53
Red_HamsterXThe plan I'm working under transfers that responsibility to the upload-target server.20:55
ubuntujenkinsIt then relies on the manual to approve them and pop them in bzr.20:55
Red_HamsterXThe client queries it for a list of yet-to-be finalized (and waiting-for-approval) screenshots.20:55
titeuf_87ah ok, I didn't know you would take care of that too20:56
Red_HamsterXIt's tentative.20:56
ubuntujenkinsI plan to try and spend an hour a night approving20:56
Red_HamsterXIt's just a couple of lists on my end.20:56
Red_HamsterXI could have it grab a signoff list from bzr.20:56
Red_HamsterXBy using the web interface,20:57
Red_HamsterXOr by spidering the directories.20:57
ubuntujenkinsbut you haev to have an ssh key to get stuff from bzr so it would have to be done in the user and not the quickshot user20:57
Red_HamsterXIf any images were moved there by someone, then it'll consider them final.20:57
Red_HamsterXNot quite.20:58
Red_HamsterXI was thinking of spidering this view.20:58
Red_HamsterXOr grabing an individual file through it.20:58
titeuf_87ubuntujenkins, you don't need an ssh key if you just want to retrieve stuff from launchpad, but only when you want to upload anything I thought?20:59
ubuntujenkinsIf you can do it a long as it works I don't mind how you do it all the branches for the screenshots are here https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots?field.lifecycle=ALL -: Red_HamsterX20:59
godbykare you guys going with bzr for the screenshot stuff or the http/web route?  (or is it still undecided?)20:59
Red_HamsterXThat's ocrrect. bzr export or bzr ls would be sufficient.21:00
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87 I think yesterday in the meeting we worked out that you do need an ssh key i wasn't 100% sure21:00
Red_HamsterXI've got the HTTP POST stuff working, godbyk.21:00
Red_HamsterXI think what we're working out now is how to migrate data.21:00
godbykOh, how to get it into the manual?21:01
Red_HamsterXHow to get it into the hands of writers and keep track of which screenshots are done, yes.21:01
ubuntujenkinsmmm... I see the problem21:03
ubuntujenkinsif we can't get anything from bzr can we not have the server automatically update its self with the bzr branches?21:05
ubuntujenkinsthen they would be jsut like folders21:05
godbykThe server could periodically commit to the bzr branch.21:05
Red_HamsterXIt could, yes. That's not a problem.21:05
godbykI can have it log in as me, for instance and set a cronjob to run every so often to upload new screenshots.21:05
Red_HamsterXThe problem is choosing images as 'final'.21:05
Red_HamsterXto mark as*21:06
Red_HamsterXMaking it query bzr as the authoritative source would be easy, though.21:06
Red_HamsterXbzr ls <path>; don't ever ask users for any files already committed.21:06
Red_HamsterX(Or use the bzr-Python API)21:07
Red_HamsterX(Or something)21:07
Red_HamsterXExporting files would also be quite easy.21:07
Red_HamsterXWriting an automated tar-and-serve script is simple.21:07
ubuntujenkinswe will jsut have to aporve them as quickly as possible21:07
Red_HamsterXWell, there's no reason why the server can't consider itself half-authoritative.21:08
Red_HamsterXPrompting users only for files that have never been uploaded.21:08
Red_HamsterXBut allowing re-uploads of anything at the user's request.21:08
ubuntujenkinswe can tell the user which ones to re do right?21:09
ubuntujenkinsthrough the server?21:09
Red_HamsterXJust take them out of bzr and remov ethem from the server and the client would start asking for the screenshot again.21:09
ubuntujenkinscool that would probably be the best way. I have a bash script to merge all 47 language branches into the main screenshots branch21:10
Red_HamsterXThe logical flow would be 'client starts up and asks the server for a worklist', 'server queries bzr and determines what has already been approved', 'server queries local filesystem to determine what appears to have been completed', 'server sends client list of needed files and list of pending files'.21:11
ubuntujenkinsthat sounds good to me, I assume it is possible.21:11
Red_HamsterXThe GUI would them step through the needed files automatically. Some option to let the user explicitly say "I need to redo this other screenshot!" would need to be provided, too.21:12
Red_HamsterXPerhaps a checklist or report view.21:12
Red_HamsterXDouble-click anything to launch its prompt-and-grab script again.21:12
Red_HamsterXOr something.21:12
Red_HamsterXThat's for the GUI people.21:13
titeuf_87that does sound good to me, and not too complicated either21:13
ubuntujenkinsI can do gui, not sure i understand what bit needs to be clicked, do we need an extra window or just a button?21:14
Red_HamsterXProbably just a listbox or report view.21:14
Red_HamsterXWith three states for each program/screenshot.21:14
Red_HamsterX"incomplete", "pending approval", and "complete".21:15
ubuntujenkinsmy programming before this was the odd bit of bash /sh scripting so the tecnical stuff goes over my head at times. I only joined as a tester but this is fun21:15
ubuntujenkinscould it be added to the current screenshot window?21:15
ubuntujenkins*description window21:16
titeuf_87I would have a combobox to select the language, and when you select a language show that listbox correctly filled in21:16
titeuf_87yeah, I would remove the second combobox from there and put in that listbox instead21:16
titeuf_87then the user can click on a screenshot in the list and click on next to take it21:17
Red_HamsterXEither that or prompt the user for a language and access credentials (to avoid exposing the upload-server) on startup.21:17
ubuntujenkinsthe language can only be set for windows only the user has to log out and back in to do screenshots in other languages21:17
Red_HamsterXUsers would only be capping a single language at a time, right?21:17
=== dutchie is now known as EmperorDutchie
Red_HamsterXLanguage could probably be gathered from locale settings.21:17
ubuntujenkinsyes but it is possible to launch windows in other langauges i used firefox in german the other day21:18
Red_HamsterXThat sounds error-prone...21:18
ubuntujenkinsit can be gatthered from local settings I have a list of language coes but I haev misplaced it21:18
godbykHow do I get a promotion like that?21:18
EmperorDutchiegodbyk: small joke in #ubuntu-uk :)21:18
godbykI thought you lot had kings and queens.21:19
* ubuntujenkins looks21:19
=== EmperorDutchie is now known as dutchie
ubuntujenkinswe could if we had time get quickshot to launch a program in another language this " LANG=fr_CA.utf8 cheese"  is an example of how to do it21:20
Red_HamsterXYeah. Just export over the environment variables.21:21
Red_HamsterXBut the problem is that X, and everything dependent on it, runs in a higher-level process.21:22
ubuntujenkinsIt would be safer to get the user to change their language themselves, the original thinking was that doing LANG=fr_CA.utf8 cheese menat the user could still log out easily. I struggled to log out in arabic the other day :-)21:22
Red_HamsterXSo it'd fail for full-screen things and things that makes calls to non-child processes.21:22
ubuntujenkinsyea it would fail for full screens but I am not sure there are many of them21:23
titeuf_87maybe best then to keep it simple and before making the new user ask for the language to use?21:24
ubuntujenkinsI do agree it only there if we have time.21:24
Red_HamsterXWow. ReactOS still isn't dead.21:25
ubuntujenkinsOk I will change the combobox to a list box sometime this week21:26
komsaswho is responsible for writing manual in single style?21:26
dutchiekomsas: the editors21:27
ubuntujenkinsIs react os linux with a lot of wine use Red_HamsterX?21:27
komsasmm.. where I can find there names (nicks) ?21:28
Red_HamsterXNo, it is not.21:28
dutchiein the editors section of the credits21:28
Red_HamsterXIt's an attempt at reimplementing all of Windows natively.21:28
Red_HamsterXI figured it died, though.21:28
Red_HamsterX'Cause I hadn't heard anything in years.21:29
ubuntujenkinswow I will have a look out of interest21:29
titeuf_87looking at their screenshots, they seem to have made a lot of progress since last time I checked21:29
Red_HamsterXOf course, I have no reason ot use Windows, so I don't really care, but it's impressive all the same.21:30
ubuntujenkinsIts always interesting none the less21:31
komsasdutchie: so if someone ask who is responsible for lithuanian translation you will show credits? Translators section is big in credits.21:32
dutchieyou mean listing translators by language?21:32
komsaswhy not ;)21:33
dutchieit'd take up a lot of room21:33
titeuf_87Red_HamsterX, once your server implements the retrieving of screenshot lists, you'll let me know? I'll add it to quickshot's interface then together with the uploading of new ones21:33
ubuntujenkinsbut can't we have it in the langauage of that manual anyway dutchie? A page will not do much harm21:34
dutchiethat'd be something for godbyk21:34
* godbyk looks up21:34
komsasdutchie: so throw out all lisence ;))21:34
dutchiekomsas: legal obligations :/21:35
godbykOne of the things I was thinking about doing was adding a colophon at the end of the manual.21:35
Red_HamsterXtiteuf_87, of course. I'll be working on that next.21:36
godbykI have thought it through completely yet, so I don't know if it'd work well, ...21:36
godbyk... but it would contain the typefaces used and the translators who contributed to that particular translation.21:36
titeuf_87ok, thanks! I'm off to sleep, night all21:36
Red_HamsterXtiteuf_87, I'll probably be implementing a stub for now, though. It won't actually query anything; it'll just return data in a likely-to-never-be-changed manner so you can start parsing it.21:36
titeuf_87Red_HamsterX, sure that works :)21:37
ubuntujenkinsnight I am off to I am so tired21:37
dutchiegodbyk: cool idea21:37
ubuntujenkinsthanks as always people21:37
dutchiealthough I should imagine your todo list is quite long ;)21:37
godbykyeah.  I think I can do the typeface part automatically. I'd have to have the translators translate the paragraph and give me a list of translator names, of course.21:38
godbykdutchie: Yeah.. I'm making progress though.  I just pushed some code to handle the glossary.21:38
dutchieit works too :)21:39
godbykThere are a ton of commands/variations that can be used for the glossary.21:39
komsashow you will know who contributed translating manual?21:39
godbykIt's gonna be interesting to see how it work in practice.21:39
dutchieperhaps don't reference the glossary words in the glossary21:39
godbykThe translators will hate me. :-)21:39
komsasYeee we will ! :D21:39
dutchiekomsas: I think the idea is the translators provide a list21:39
godbykYeah, I'll probably take those out.  They were there for testing purposes before I added entries from the manual proper. :)21:40
godbykkomsas: The translators will have to add their names to a list or something.21:40
komsaswho will check that this name did something? :)21:42
godbykI'll leave that up to the translation teams to figure out.21:42
komsasI found that some buttons in the content began with the capital letters others are lowercase, do you know what is main style of buttons?21:45
godbykUsually the first letter is capitalized.21:46
komsason my keyboard all letters ar lowercase.21:46
godbykReally? What kind of keyboard?21:47
komsasHP laptop21:47
godbykInteresting. All the keyboards I've seen have uppercase letters.21:47
komsastake a look to content there are a lot of buttons with lowercase.21:48
godbykkomsas: yeah, I've noticed that. I think it should be \keystroke{Enter}, not \keystroke{enter}.21:48
godbykSimilarly, the \keystroke{down arrows} should just be "down arrows" (without the quotes).21:49
IlyaHaykinsongodbyk: hm, i think \keystroke{Down Arrow} is fine.21:51
komsasso you prefer uppercase?21:51
IlyaHaykinsoni would also agree with \keystroke{Enter}21:52
IlyaHaykinsongodbyk: should we use the \glspl{} for every term?21:54
godbykIlyaHaykinson: Sorry.. brain fart.. the example from the manual was \keystroke{arrow keys}, which should just be 'arrow keys' (no \keystroke).21:54
IlyaHaykinsoni use \emph{term} for various terms here and there21:54
godbykIlyaHaykinson: \keystroke{Down arrow} is fine.21:54
* IlyaHaykinson just checked the GNOME documentation help. should be down arrow, all lowercase21:56
c7pi have to translate a string like "click \button{forward} to continue"21:59
c7pshould i translate forward or not21:59
c7pok thx21:59
dutchiebut not button21:59
komsasforward in uppercase?22:00
c7pi copy n paste the string above22:01
c7panother question22:01
IlyaHaykinsonif it's translated in the interface22:02
IlyaHaykinson(it may be, right?)22:02
c7pi have the "\screenshotTODO{Installation: first installation screen}" string, i have to translate the period inside the '{ }' ?22:02
dutchiedunno, ask godbyk22:02
c7pi think this have to with quickshot (?)22:04
dutchiethat command is just to fill in the space and flag that we need one22:05
c7pnice :)22:06
godbykc7p: You don't have to translate the \screenshotTODO stuff at the moment.22:06
godbykThat's just to give us an idea of what screenshots we'll need.22:06
godbyk(We may have you translate the screenshot descriptions at some point a bit later, though.)22:06
c7pthx for the information22:07
Red_HamsterXAnyone have any experience traversing a bzr branch using bzrlib?22:51

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