[00:05] code looks fairly simple to understand. What's currently being worked on and what could you use help with? [00:06] currently we could do with help on the actual taking screenshots bit Red_HamsterX has had a look at is so best to ask him, not sure if he is here right now [00:07] I am being stupid and I think it is because it it to late at night but I can't get the command os.system("gnome-session-save --kill --silent") to run when the countdown hits 0 [00:08] should be very easy but apparently not [00:09] you would do something like if counter == 0: os.system("...") else: self.builder.get_object("... [00:09] split over four lines [00:11] I'm here. Just a bit busy. [00:11] A primitive screenshot module has been added. I'll flesh it out tomorrow. [00:11] ah ok [00:12] sorry could you please explain the server stuff very quickly [00:12] Sure. [00:13] titeuf_87 has joined us if you hadn't gathered [00:13] I think I got it: quickshot uses bzr to get the latest screenshots, looks what's missing, present those to the user, and uses bzr again to add those missing screenshots [00:13] That was the old model. [00:13] I'm working on implementing something HTTP-based. [00:13] oh ok [00:13] the varification of the user for bzr was to complex [00:14] It'll use POST + meta-data + credentials to submit screenshots and GET to find out what needs to be screencapps and any parameters about what need to be collected. [00:14] This decouples it from bzr and launchpad, which reduces the complexity of setup and deployment. [00:15] It technically makes the quickshot user optional, too, but that may stick around since it's easier to do things liek change resolution and configuration settings in a throwaway account. [00:15] also the quickshot user has the default lucid setup [00:15] I'll be exposing a Python API for the HTTP stuff later tonight/early tomorrow, once I finish other obligations that have recently arisen. [00:15] Yes, that, too. [00:16] No weird themes. [00:16] Nothing that might intimidate a user looking for colours and icons that are still alien. [00:17] I just joined the project this week, so I haven't actually contributed much more than ideas yet. [00:18] My one-hour screencap-and-upload hack is in quickshot/lib. [00:18] which branch? [00:18] Yours. [00:18] I made a mistake when checking it out on my netbook. [00:18] And then saved to the wrong place. [00:19] i can't see it. [00:19] Odd... [00:19] Maybe it's in some sort of freakish limbo. [00:20] Oh, well. It'll get to main somehow. [00:20] I always check before i push branches as mine is low traffic I just check the web interface [00:20] Worst-case, I just diff against a prior revision and patch. [00:20] Got a link to this interface? [00:20] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-quickshot/changes [00:21] is where i check [00:21] its only be open to all in the last 2 days [00:21] since revison 40 [00:21] Yeah... I don't see it. Yet it-- [00:21] Oh... [00:21] No, it's not in yours. [00:21] I was sshed into my netbook when I thought I mangically found it. [00:21] bzr is confusing. :( [00:22] lol that makes sense [00:23] add it to main if you can I am going to merge mine into main now [00:23] Merge yours first. I'll just scp and add it. [00:23] Like, here. [00:23] I know my desktop is running main. [00:24] godbyk: is there an inline comment? [00:24] something like \comment{foo} [00:24] IlyaHaykinson: nope. [00:24] well, lemme check.. the comment package may have one. [00:25] it may help to have these inline comments that we can insert in places, and make them show up in some prominent color [00:25] during development [00:25] but then turn them off toward production. [00:25] silly question but how do i merge it correctly? I only started using bzr at the start of this project [00:25] i'm thinking like the little [fact?] or [neutrality violation] supertitles in Wikipedia [00:25] Wanna create a global 'settings.py' module with things like 'DEBUG = True'? [00:26] Or do you mean for developers only? [00:26] IlyaHaykinson: Nope. Just \begin{comment}...\end{comment} (which you can use inline, even though it's a bit bulky) [00:26] If it's just for developers, #FIXME and #TODO usually get special treatment from editors. [00:26] IlyaHaykinson: Ah, you want to insert comments that appear in the PDF? [00:26] Oh, for the manual proper. [00:26] Ignore me. [00:27] godbyk: yeah, that could be useful [00:27] that way it'll be very obvious in the compiled version [00:27] IlyaHaykinson: yeah, I can do that. give me just a sec. [00:27] ubuntujenkins, bzr push lp:quickshot ? Haven't used bazaar much yet myself so not sure if that's correct [00:27] ubuntujenkins, I have no idea for sure, but I think it's either join or push. [00:27] there's a really nice pkg for doing just that. [00:28] I'm trying to push from my netbook. [00:29] cool I will wait a moment [00:29] Yeah, push seemed to work. [00:29] I added rev 32 and my "dunno, lawl" rev 33. [00:29] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/32 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 32 [00:29] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/33 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 33 [00:30] The bot needs to be just a little less aggressive... [00:30] it is in main now https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot [00:31] Using 'bzr merge' now. [00:31] IlyaHaykinson: does 'kpsewhich todonotes.sty' return anythingn for you? [00:31] I got my changes... [00:31] Hmmm... [00:31] IlyaHaykinson: I'm going to finish updating the install-pkgs.sh script, then I'll push the changes and tell you how to do the notes. [00:31] I don't see yours, ubuntujenkins. [00:31] not merged yet [00:31] Ah. [00:32] trying now [00:32] I should grab the Lucid ISO so I can do stuff in a real environment. [00:32] how do I fix conflicts? [00:32] bzr resolve [00:33] That part's the same as SVN. [00:35] well I have pushed rev 34 lets hope I didn't break it [00:35] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/34 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 34 [00:35] IlyaHaykinson: I just pushed rev 431. [00:35] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/431 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 431 [00:36] IlyaHaykinson: It uses the todonotes package. [00:36] IlyaHaykinson: Run the install-pkgs.sh script to make sure you have it installed. [00:36] If you broke it, we can just roll back. [00:36] it appears to work [00:36] looks like it any way [00:36] IlyaHaykinson: Then you can type \todo{Hey, someone fix this!} in the doc and it'll show up in the PDF as a margin note. [00:37] bzr pull seems to have grabbed all of your new stuff. [00:37] IlyaHaykinson: If you think we should have different classes of TODO notes, make a list and let me know and I can write some custom commands for them. [00:37] IlyaHaykinson: (Give 'em different colors, etc.) [00:38] same here, I got both of all your changes [00:38] so titeuf_87 now main is up to date if you can get it actually caputing screenshots that would be great. the list of screen shots is http://paste.ubuntu.com/389962/ [00:38] We are learning. :) [00:39] I have a list of language codes somewhere that we haev to look for in the users setting I will look for it in the morning [00:39] titeuf_87, while you could get it capturing screenshots, I know how to do that and should have a fairly robust collection of easy-to-use functions tomorrow/Monday. [00:40] Red_HamsterX if you can find something for titeuf_87 to do I am going to go to bed as I have loads of uni work to do tomorrow [00:40] night all [00:40] Though you could like the timer and my grab-active-window function right now to make sure it wirtes a screenshot file to disk. [00:40] night ubuntujenkins [00:40] link* [00:40] thanks all [00:40] G'night and good luck~ [00:40] I can look into that :) [00:40] What's your background with Python? [00:41] ummm...been using it for a couple of years now for hobby stuff, although never really anything big as I never get motivated to finish my projects [00:43] I've got some projects listed at http://uguu.ca/ and I contribute patches against open issues when I can. [00:43] well main is broken I am actually off to bed now night :-) [00:43] Broken's fine. [00:43] It means titeuf_87 can fix bugs and make it un-broken. [00:44] hehe [00:44] (While I work on the non-GUI stuff) [00:44] ok, I'll see what all works/doesn't work [00:44] (After finally finishing these invoices) [00:44] I'm still quite new to the project. [00:45] I'm confident in my skills, but I'm not fully aware of the scope of what needs to be done. [00:45] So I can't really delegate effectively. [00:45] I've taken responsibility for the server communication and actual screencapping routines for now, though. [00:46] With intent to deliver ASAP. [00:46] I'll be coding in accordance with PEP-8, but I don't think the project's mature enough to require a convention from everyone. Just make sure your code, and any code you hack against, is consistent, I suppose. [00:47] it's a bit of a mix already in there :) [00:47] Yeah. [00:48] I think the current goal is "make it work", not "make it publication-worthy". [00:48] Which is fine. [00:48] Things are more fun that way. [00:48] yeah [00:49] * Red_HamsterX stops distracting himself and finishes invoicing people so he can get to work on what actually matters: this. [00:49] heh, have fun! [00:55] godbyk: thx for the \todo command [00:55] IlyaHaykinson: np. If you want, I can set up different types of \todo commands that have different colors. [00:56] let me try it out [00:56] 'kay. [00:57] looks really good. thanks again! will make editing and review easier. [00:58] instead of just using %comments, this todo command will make it very obvious to every reader, instead of just people pulling up the latex source [00:59] IlyaHaykinson: That's true. Just depends on who you want to see the comment. :) [01:00] yes. though at the moment i would say _everyone_. [01:00] right. [01:00] and it's a one-line edit to disable all the \todos. [01:01] there's also a \listoftodos command I can add that'll give an index to the TODOs (say, after the table of contents) [01:02] hm, let's leave as-is for now. [01:03] alright, gotta go. l8r [01:03] k [01:04] see ya [01:04] Some folders in my music library have little "lock" icons in the upper righthand corner. What does that mean? [01:04] It means they're read-only. [01:04] ...and more importantly, how do I get rid of them? [01:04] ah [01:04] okay [01:04] Are you comfortable with terminals? [01:04] well, that makes sense, since I last used the drive on a Mac [01:04] permissions are probably all messed up [01:04] I'm a novice with the terminal [01:04] getting more comfortable [01:04] Yeah, probably. [01:05] Chances are they belong to another user. [01:05] OS X likes to start numbering users at 500. [01:05] makes total sense [01:05] Ubuntu likes 1000. [01:05] oh, lovely [01:05] ok [01:05] It's easy to fix by command-line, though. [01:05] alrighty [01:05] is it difficult to explain? [01:05] you could right-click on it, open the properties and look at the permissions tab, can change owner/perms there too [01:06] Open a terminal and move to the directory containing the files. [01:06] titeuf_87, that'll probably fail without super-user access. [01:06] ah good point! [01:06] I'd be amazed (in horror) if you could say you're the owner of files without such access. [01:07] Looks like Red_HamsterX is right [01:07] :-/ [01:07] It's fine. [01:07] Changing permissions is easy. [01:07] Like, one-command easy. [01:08] okay [01:08] let me get my tea off the stove ... I'll be right back [01:10] okay, back [01:10] sorry to keep you waiting [01:10] i'll load a terminal [01:11] Red_HamsterX: Okay, I'm at a terminal [01:12] why are some folders highlighted green in the terminal? [01:13] They should all be highlighted. [01:13] It's just a niceity to make it more obvious what types of files you're dealing with. [01:13] ls is aliased to 'ls --color' by default. [01:14] in the terminal, some folders are green, others aren't [01:14] ah, okay [01:14] well, then that's odd [01:14] because all the folders with music should be green ... but they're not [01:14] oh well [01:14] save that problem for later [01:15] Maybe it's related to permissions... [01:15] could be [01:15] Can you use 'ls -l' to see if anything's weird about them? [01:15] By 'weird', I mean 'different from those you created youself'. [01:15] it's permissions [01:15] :) [01:15] you were right [01:16] Ownership or access? [01:16] how can I tell? [01:16] all I can see is that the combinations of wxr stuff is different for different colors [01:16] drwxr-xr-x 2 flan flan 4096 2010-03-06 16:25 lib [01:17] Owner: user flan, group flan [01:17] That's probably what we'll have to fix with the music files themselves. [01:17] drwxr-xr-x 1 99 99 4 2010-02-07 17:20 The Mighty Mighty Bosstones [01:17] drwxrwxrwx 1 99 99 5 2009-12-31 14:21 The Postal Service [01:18] I think we just found the problem. [01:18] you can see the differences there [01:18] '99 99' [01:18] okay [01:18] yeah [01:18] 99 is Apple's generic "I dunno who you are" number. [01:18] ha! [01:18] every folder has 99 99 [01:18] You have nothing with uid or gid 99 on your Ubuntu system. [01:18] So let's change that. [01:19] okay [01:19] sudo chown -R flan:flan * [01:19] Where 'flan' is your name. [01:19] It's really mine. [01:19] You can't have it. [01:19] will these changes prohibit me from using this disk on my Mac? [01:19] all my music is on an external drive that I swap between machines [01:19] It'll flip the lock. [01:19] Ooh... [01:19] Okay, in that case, the problem may well be different. [01:20] okay [01:20] glad I mentioned that then! [01:20] :) [01:20] I was under the impression that this was an HFS+ partition. [01:20] Not FAT32. [01:20] Which is likely the case if you carry it everywhere. [01:20] Actually, it's HFS [01:21] (non-jounaled, I believe) [01:21] Oh. Then this change would flip the lock. [01:21] I just move the drive between Macs in the house, my Ubuntu machine, and my television [01:21] The files would still be readable, but not writeable. [01:21] ...You have a TV that understands HFS? [01:22] I have a Western Digital Media Center, which reads the HFS drive and sends files to the TV [01:22] :) [01:22] So now, the TV isn't doing the work [01:22] Ah. [01:22] er, no [01:22] Okay, then, I dunno what you should do... [01:22] If you change ownership, it'll just go the other way. [01:22] I see [01:22] The Macs will say "I can't write to this". [01:23] But Ubuntu will be happy. [01:23] there isn't a way to make all the folders read/write from any platform? [01:23] ha! [01:23] Probably best to leave ownership alone if the Macs are where your music comes from. [01:23] or, the other way around [01:23] okay, I gotcha [01:23] sounds fine [01:23] There is a way, but it's implicitly insecure. [01:23] can I ask you another question? [01:23] okay [01:24] From the current location, 'sudo chmod o=rwx *' [01:24] If your directories are one layer deep, you'll then be able to write to them from anywhere. [01:24] I see [01:24] but it's my understanding that Ubuntu does not support HFS very well [01:24] is that true? [01:24] The insecurity comes from the fact that, when the thing is connected, any user ont he system can write to them, too. [01:25] I don't know. [01:25] I'm not a Mac person. [01:25] ah, I see how that can be insecure, yes [01:25] well, I'm hoping the current Macbook will be my last Mac [01:25] my next primary computer will be running Ubuntu [01:26] and at that point [01:26] I'll probably reformat my media drive to something more universally acceptable [01:28] * Red_HamsterX sets up his Lucid system with only one partition. [01:29] Stupidity, thy manifestation be me! [01:29] ha! [01:29] speaking of which [01:29] what do you recommend for backup software on Ubuntu? [01:29] Oh, and automatic login, too. [01:29] Dunno. [01:29] you don't make backups either? [01:29] I have RAID-1 on everything and ten-minute rsync. [01:30] ah [01:30] well then [01:30] * semioticrobotic laughs [01:30] All code is managed by subversion, with off-site backups. [01:30] don't see much need for a backup solution, then! [01:30] Nope. [01:30] I burn DVDs sometimes, but only for content that's archive-only. [01:31] makes sense [01:31] I am running Ubuntu on my ultraportable [01:31] and using that system to test various applications [01:31] Oh. Well, I suppose my Eee isn't RAIDed. [01:31] But it rsyncs locally to an SD card. [01:31] And this system. [01:31] so I can make a smooth transition from my Mac when I finally ditch it for a new machine [01:32] rsyncing to an SD card is a great idea [01:32] It's the offline fallback. [01:32] If it can't connect to this thing, it goes there. [01:33] gotcha [01:33] well, the software center offers several solutions, so I'll just play with those [01:33] I think BackInTime is an rsync GUI. I'll start with that. [01:33] I'm primarily a Debian user, so I'm still kinda old-school in terms of scripting things. [01:34] thanks for your help Red_HamsterX [01:34] Welcome. [01:34] I appreciate it [01:34] I'm off to make some manual edits now [01:34] thanks for helping a n00b with some pretty basic stuff :) [01:34] Everyone has to start learning somewhere. [01:35] And you've already got enoughe nthusiasm for the technology to compensate for any n00bish mistakes. :) [01:35] I try to learn one or two new Ubuntu things each day [01:35] ha! well, that's true [01:35] I'm very willing to learn [01:35] just need some help along the way [01:35] And to teach. [01:35] Else you wouldn't be there. [01:35] be here* [01:36] well, that's true, too [01:36] :) [01:36] take care [01:36] You, too. [01:45] Red_HamsterX, the list of screenshots that still needs to be taken is something you'll take care of? [01:48] titeuf_87, no, it is not. I am not sure who is co-ordinating that, but godbyk may know. [01:48] That's something you could probably look into, though. [01:49] Planning how to prompt users for that stuff/building a workflow outline for each one. [01:49] I don't know that anyone's really coordinating it yet. [01:49] In the manual, we write \screenshotTODO{Description of screenshot.} [01:49] I'm just focusing on the libraries that will manage the actual actions, not the actual business logic. [01:49] Do we have a lit of programs? [01:49] list* [01:49] The descriptions of all the screenshots get added to a screenshots.log file when you compile the manual. [01:50] But something more formal should be done with the descriptions, probably. [01:50] Red_HamsterX: The list looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/389997/ [01:51] I hope Lucid's login screen won't stay so barren... [01:51] I like the session/language/action prompts. [01:52] Wait... We're going into Launchpad? [01:52] Why? [01:52] (Line 28) [01:56] I think I have another thing for humphrybc to complain about. [01:56] Two, actually. [02:10] Red_HamsterX, I've pushed my changes to a new branch on launchpad [02:10] I'm going to work more on it tomorrow, bed time now. Night all [10:43] hello everyone [10:46] TommyBrunn the countdown now works thanks to titeuf_87 who has joined the team, main is broken but has been fixed in titeuf_87's branch. [10:47] Oh, nice! [10:49] He should really speak to Neil before starting hacking on taking screenshots, though. [10:49] He already has a lib ready for that. [10:49] brb [10:51] thats cool neil and simon spoke last night [10:53] brb just rebooting [10:56] back [12:51] hey guys [12:51] re: the chapter on hardware-prefs etc [12:52] i've found a gui app to replace all the cli commands i wrote up yesterday and it is the repos [12:52] and seems to work allright [16:33] how is everyone at the moment? [16:37] pretty good! And you? [16:38] I am good thinking i shoudl do some coursework [16:39] and not be on irc [19:43] thorwil: i think we should stay away from using purple , since it is reserved for canonical [19:43] vish: added manual title page tests to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork (look for 2010-03-07 a to e) [19:43] we can use the orange shades [19:44] vish: right. that's why the mockup wallpaper is full of it ;p [19:45] thorwil: heh , it is a flaw it their standards.. or they could just say "Canonical did it" ;p [19:45] vish: too much of that orange is just agressive, so we need something else [19:46] thorwil: that was the first thing that struck me as very odd... but it might be the argument i assumed [19:46] true.. [19:46] I like option e, how is purple reserved for conical you can't patent a colour [19:47] ubuntujenkins: vish thinks that because the ubuntu has orange and the canonical logo uses aubergine [19:47] ubuntujenkins: not patent .. the purpose of the branding is anything having lot of purple means canonical [19:47] thorwil: not me thinks.. that was what sabdfl blogged [19:47] thorwil: but personally i like e :) [19:48] I think that the fact that so much purple is in the theme and boot splash means we cn still use it I see vish's point though [19:48] Mark wrote: "The use of Aubergine indicates Commercial involvement of one form or another, while Orange is a signal of community engagement", so based on that vish is right [19:49] ubuntujenkins: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/308 [19:49] it really sucks hard that it's exactly the reverse of how i feel the colors :/ [19:49] :) [19:50] thorwil: i was thinking we could incorporate the dots [19:50] I think overall that vish is right but I like the desgins :-), keep up the good work. [19:50] both of you [19:50] ty [19:56] vish: we could, but weren't the examples on dark ground, indicating corporate, too? should not force it anyway and i don't feel like trying, actually [19:58] oh , was it.. i didnt understand the dots fully.. [19:58] thorwil: i think sabdfl missed a paragraph that was given to him ;p [19:58] vish: why, where? [19:59] thorwil: it just seemed the dots wasnt fully explained , or i didnt understand it fully.. anyways , just kidding ;) [20:00] i got the engineered part.. but then it went over my head [20:04] ah righto.. more space == user [20:04] oops other way ;p [20:06] thorwil: IMO , we use "e" without the top curve but with the band? [20:07]