[00:03] <thunsucker> how much install space does edubuntu take up on top of ubuntu?
[05:56] <alkisg> Yey! I found that update-binfmts is what's keeping $CHROOT/proc from unmounting.
[05:56]  * alkisg looks deeper...
[06:00] <alkisg> ...and here's the problematic call:
[06:00] <alkisg> Entering chroot /opt/ltsp/i386, type 'exit' to exit.
[06:00] <alkisg> root@alkis:/# apt-get install --reinstall wine wine1.2
[06:00] <alkisg> Ανάγνωση Λιστών Πακέτων... Ολοκληρώθηκε
[06:00] <alkisg> Κατασκευή Δένδρου Εξαρτήσεων
[06:00] <alkisg> Ανάγνωση περιγραφής της τρέχουσας κατάσταση... Ολοκληρώθηκε
[06:00] <alkisg> Sorry, "copy" didn't work :-/
[06:01] <alkisg>        if (system ('/bin/mount', '-t', 'binfmt_misc',
[06:01] <alkisg>                     '-o', 'nodev,noexec,nosuid', 'binfmt_misc', $procdir)) {
[11:06] <norbpi> hi. i have an issue with ubuntu 9.10 (Koala Karmac) and edubuntu.
[11:07] <norbpi> the login screen does not show a edubuntu session, although edubuntu is installed.
[11:07] <norbpi> anybody there reading this?
[14:37] <AndyGraybeal> hey guys, i'm trying to lockdown my desktop.  i want it so no one can make folders or files on the desktop.  i wrote about my issue in a pastie http://www.pastie.org/859546
[14:38] <AndyGraybeal> i followed some instructions here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1399423  sudo chattr +i .. and it worked great on the current folders in the Desktop... but i'm confused about permissions.
[14:54] <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: you can just disable /apps/nautilus/preferences/show_desktop from gconf-editor, and make it mandatory, if you want...
[14:54] <alkisg> This way no icons will ever be shown on the desktop, even if the users create files and folders there
[14:56] <AndyGraybeal> oh well, we use the desktop icons that are currently there.  i don't want them to add more or delete or modify the current icons (folders)
[14:56] <AndyGraybeal> alkisg: but thank you
[14:56] <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: ah, I see. An easy way to do this is to just set XDG_DESKTOP_DIR to the admins/teacher's dir for all users.
[14:57] <alkisg> This way the admin/teacher will be able to insert whatever he wants, and the users/students will be unable to add content there.
[14:58] <AndyGraybeal> okay thank you, i will think about this.
[15:01] <alkisg> > currently if i take write permission off of the Desktop folder, they cannot add or change files inside the first set of subdirectories under the Desktop.  In every folder after that they can add or change files/folders fine. this absolutely makes no sense to me.
[15:01] <alkisg> ==> After reading this, I'm not sure about what you want.
[15:01] <AndyGraybeal> okay i'm sorry.
[15:02] <AndyGraybeal> let me explain further
[15:02] <alkisg> Better write it as a set of requirements
[15:02] <AndyGraybeal> i'm confused.
[15:02] <alkisg> Will they be able to add new files to the folders?
[15:02] <alkisg> Will they be able to add new folders to the folders?
[15:02] <AndyGraybeal> yes yes
[15:03] <AndyGraybeal> but not on the Desktop
[15:03] <alkisg> So why are you saying that "this absolutely makes no sense to me"? Isn't that what you want?
[15:03] <alkisg> Or are you just looking for an explanation?
[15:04] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:04] <AndyGraybeal> oh i'm looking for an explanation
[15:04] <alkisg> Hi sbalneav
[15:04] <AndyGraybeal> it isn't working like i understand it to work.
[15:05] <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: ok, here's what happening:
[15:05] <alkisg> If a file has +w for someone, he can edit it
[15:05] <alkisg> But the "delete" action isn't a file action. That file needs to be deleted from the parent directory
[15:05] <alkisg> So, to delete a file, one needs +w to the parent directory.
[15:05] <alkisg> Does that make sense?
[15:06] <AndyGraybeal> yes, that is what is happening - and i didn't realize that.
[15:06] <AndyGraybeal> thank you for explaining that.
[15:06] <alkisg> np
[15:06] <AndyGraybeal> so just go along with me here...
[15:07] <AndyGraybeal> yea, nevemrind - i'm getting so confused.
[15:07] <AndyGraybeal> it's alright - i need to practice more.
[15:07] <alkisg> Heh, as you wish
[15:07] <alkisg> But it'll be easier if you *define* what you want
[15:08] <AndyGraybeal> when yuo say define, can you explain?
[15:09] <alkisg> define == describe your problem better
[15:09] <alkisg> Say exactly what you want
[15:11] <AndyGraybeal> okay
[15:12] <AndyGraybeal> i want people to not be able to add or modify the desktop folders.  i want them to be able to add and modify the things inside those folders.
[15:12] <AndyGraybeal> does that make sense?
[15:12] <alkisg> Sure.
[15:12] <alkisg> So what don't you like from your current solution?
[15:13] <alkisg> (chattr +i or different owner or whatever?)
[15:13] <sbalneav> Just out of curiosity, why do you not want them to add folders?  I can see not wanting them to remove stuff that's there, but why shouldn't they add their own?
[15:13] <Ahmuck> sym link
[15:14] <AndyGraybeal> sbalneav: because we have two shared logons... between like 20 people.  if they can add whatever they want, it becomes a cluttered mess (this is how it has always been).
[15:15] <sbalneav> How many terminals do you have?
[15:15] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: for a cohesive desktop across the classroom
[15:15] <Ahmuck> desktop control
[15:15] <Ahmuck> multiple users using the same login
[15:16] <AndyGraybeal> sbalneav: currently only two (and just so you understand this is ubuntu with ltsp, in a business environment, but i can swear they are much like children)
[15:16] <sbalneav> Well, for starters, 1 person, 1 login.
[15:16] <AndyGraybeal> sbalneav: i understand, i'm not there yet :(
[15:16] <sbalneav> trying to have several people log in on the same login is very VERY bad mojo
[15:16] <AndyGraybeal> i still havent' gotten the single-sign-on configure.d
[15:16] <AndyGraybeal> sbalneav: i understand that entirely.
[15:16] <sbalneav> if someone does something wrong, you've got no way to tell who did it.
[15:17] <AndyGraybeal> sbalneav: understood.
[15:17] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: it's not practical to create logins for classroom instruction when you don't know whos' going to show up
[15:17] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: You know who all your students are, yes?
[15:17] <Ahmuck> no
[15:17] <sbalneav> No?
[15:17] <AndyGraybeal> sbalneav: i plan on having everyone with a login, but right now i can't scale it -- until i have a single-sign-on configured.. kerb, ldap, etc.  (i'm still learning and very slow at this)
[15:17] <Ahmuck> we offer community classes and never know who's going to show, so we have standard logins such as class 01, class 02, etc.
[15:18] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: When I worked at the University, I had to create 8-10 thousand logins every year
[15:18] <AndyGraybeal> alkisg: thank you for your help.  i will work with this more.
[15:18] <sbalneav> but I knew who all the students where.
[15:18] <Ahmuck> anywho, i'd concentrate on AndyGraybeal problem
[15:18] <sbalneav> I am
[15:18] <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: you're welcome, there are many solutions for this, try to find the one that suits you better.
[15:18] <alkisg> I'd go for "chown Desktop/dir"
[15:18] <sbalneav> And I'm suggesting: he's got only 20 people, why not just create 20 logins?
[15:19] <AndyGraybeal> alkisg: okay thank you
[15:19] <AndyGraybeal> sbalneav: cause those can get out of hand very fast!  i need scalable answer first, single-sign-on.....
[15:19] <sbalneav> I'm confused, you said you've only got 20 people.
[15:20] <AndyGraybeal> well, it's 70, and we're planning on implementing several services for them to use.
[15:20] <AndyGraybeal> only 20 mainly use the machines though.
[15:21] <sbalneav> I manage, currently, 250 id's and 185 machines.
[15:21] <AndyGraybeal> i was hoping to go with kerb/ldap solution in the future and then give everyone username/password
[15:21] <AndyGraybeal> sbalneav: i'm sure your very good at it.
[15:21] <sbalneav> Right, but you can start with that NOW, and then just migrate to ldap later.
[15:22] <AndyGraybeal> they need to use the machiens today.. it taks me to to learn such things.
[15:22] <AndyGraybeal> i'm sorry, i'm not as skilled as others.
[15:22] <AndyGraybeal> i need time to learn this kerb/ldap
[15:22] <AndyGraybeal> and dns
[15:22] <AndyGraybeal> i'm actually using FreeIPA on fedora for now.
[15:23] <AndyGraybeal> but i haven't finished with it yet.
[15:23] <AndyGraybeal> nevermind, i'll get along.
[15:23] <sbalneav> But my point it, you're going to complicate things to make a shared login solution, and spend time dealing with that, which you're going to undo later
[15:23] <AndyGraybeal> nevermind.
[15:23] <sbalneav> whereas right now, you can just create 20 logins, then migrate them to ldap when you're done.
[15:23] <AndyGraybeal> i understand what your saying.
[15:23] <sbalneav> OK
[15:24] <sbalneav> Just trying to save you some effort
[15:24] <AndyGraybeal> okay i didn't undrestand that last part.
[15:24] <AndyGraybeal> i was afraid of migrating because that seems to be complicated also.
[15:24] <AndyGraybeal> okay, i will think this through again.
[15:24]  * Ahmuck looks at FreeIPA
[15:24] <AndyGraybeal> wish sabayon worked in ubntu 8.10 :)
[15:25] <sbalneav> Sabayon works in 9.04 and 9.10
[15:25] <sbalneav> with the packages from my ppa
[15:25] <AndyGraybeal> i'm afraid to upgrade for now -- i want to move to 10.04 when it's out.
[15:25] <AndyGraybeal> start from fresh install.
[15:25] <Ahmuck> AndyGraybeal: creating logins for 70 people now and having seperate user directories will still allow you migration later
[15:26] <AndyGraybeal> Ahmuck: alright then, maybe you sbalneav have convinced me.
[15:26] <Ahmuck> i've done the upgrade.  if you have a seperate /home directory from / you can even do a fresh install without affecting your users
[15:26] <sbalneav> afk for a bit
[15:26] <AndyGraybeal> Ahmuck: if the people have shared folders, where do you put those in your setup ?
[15:27] <Ahmuck> the biggest part is understanding the migration path, and also understanding the time limits you have in reguards to that migration path
[15:27] <Ahmuck> this is something i struggled with myself.  currently i'm have shared folders located under /home
[15:27] <AndyGraybeal> so like /home/shared ?
[15:28] <Ahmuck> remember that /home would need to be on a seperate partition, so when your doing your drive setup, you would plan for this
[15:28] <AndyGraybeal> Ahmuck: thank you for the guidance.
[15:28] <Ahmuck> actually, i've got several.  for example, /home/students /home/community, etc.
[15:28] <AndyGraybeal> aah nice Ahmuck ... that's good to know several shares under /home.
[15:28] <Ahmuck>  /home/journalism, etc.
[15:29] <Ahmuck> then i assign individuals to those folders based upon thier requirements
[15:29] <AndyGraybeal> do you use ACL package?
[15:29] <Ahmuck> this is managed with group permissions
[15:30] <Ahmuck> hrm, i don't think so.  i'm in a similar situation as yourself.  I'm still on the learning curve, and my time is limited so I do what's necessary to get the job done, and move on
[15:31] <Ahmuck> :)
[15:31] <AndyGraybeal> okay, yea i don't want to learn ACL
[15:31] <AndyGraybeal> i'm fine (for the most part) with unix perms.
[15:31] <AndyGraybeal> thank you for talking
[15:32] <AndyGraybeal> i think things will be better when sabayon is available for me (in march after th 10.04 release)
[15:32] <alkisg> That's May :)
[15:32] <AndyGraybeal> may
[15:32] <AndyGraybeal> thanks
[15:33] <Ahmuck> u can still move foward, and learn what you need to before then
[15:34] <Ahmuck> but, yes, i wouldn't be afraid to create permanant users if they are indeed permant and you've got a sepearte partition for your /home directory
[15:34] <Ahmuck> my problem is that my users are temporie, and creating permannt users for one time use is impractical
[15:34] <Ahmuck> which means i have to clean up after class
[15:35] <alkisg> Why don't you clean up with a logon script?
[15:37] <Ahmuck> time required to learn how to write a logon script, time to implement ...
[15:40] <Ahmuck> speaking of time, gtg ...
[15:41] <Ahmuck> ah, actually i know why i'm here.  gdm broke on the last update.  i need to "reset" gdm
[15:41] <Ahmuck> is there a file or directory i can rm to do this?
[15:42] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: Is it actually running?
[15:42] <Ahmuck> i've got a background and then a brown box in the center ... i can ps -ax it to see
[15:42] <Ahmuck> let me check
[15:43] <Ahmuck> yes, it appears to be running ... gdm-simple-greeter
[15:43] <Ahmuck> no icons on the bottom of the screen however for logout, etc.
[15:44] <sbalneav> hm
[15:44] <sbalneav> Well, if it were me...
[15:45] <highvoltage> howdy
[15:45] <sbalneav> I'd switch to a text console
[15:46] <alkisg> hi high :)
[15:47] <Ahmuck> users can start an xsession from text console?
[15:47] <sbalneav> do an apt-get purge gdm
[15:47] <Ahmuck> looks like upon reboot, i've got an accessablity icon
[15:48] <sbalneav> and an apt-get install gdm
[15:48] <Ahmuck> ah yes, *smack* why didn't i think of that :(
[15:48] <sbalneav> how much does apt-get purge gdm want to delete... one sec lemme see...
[15:49] <sbalneav> Hmmm
[15:49] <sbalneav> does want to pull a few other packages with it...
[15:49] <sbalneav> ummm
[15:49] <sbalneav> try this:
[15:49] <sbalneav> apt-get install --reinstall gdm
[15:49] <Ahmuck> found it
[15:50] <Ahmuck> broken packages ... gdm-guest-session, sabayon, ubuntu-desktop, & indicator session
[15:51] <Ahmuck> er, indicator-session
[15:51] <sbalneav> ah, so apt-get -f install may fix you up
[15:53] <Ahmuck> does sabayon or ltsp use a different gdm?  ie, it's talking about gdm and gdm-2.2.0
[15:53] <sbalneav> Not as far as I know...
[15:53] <sbalneav> Lemme check what sabayon depends on...
[15:54] <alkisg> Ahmuck: if you removed gdm, you also removed ubuntu-desktop, so you'd better reinstall it.
[15:54] <sbalneav> Nope, just depends on gdm
[15:54] <sbalneav> No verno's for that.
[15:56] <sbalneav> and AFAIK, ltsp doesn't depend on gdm at all
[15:56] <highvoltage> how are things alkisg?
[15:56] <alkisg> highvoltage: fine - I'm just getting tired trying to solve some fat client problems :)
[15:57]  * alkisg needs to have an application for easy fat client installation + a manual in time for lucid..
[16:00] <highvoltage> alkisg: it will be interesting to see what it does in production.
[16:03] <alkisg> I think fat clients need a little more automation than thin clients... E.g. with SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=false, to get a shared folder on the client, you need EXTRA_MOUNTS, which isn't obvious...
[16:04] <alkisg> In my (greek only :-/) app I've included such automations, but it would be nice to see them as a prepackaged solution at a later edubuntu version...
[16:05]  * alkisg will work on properly packaging whatever scripts he uses for his local solutions in the future
[16:17] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: Get yourself sorted out?
[16:19] <Ahmuck> sorry, had to step out and take care of something
[16:19] <Ahmuck> can return to it in about 10 min
[18:59] <Ahmuck> ok ... back to the gdm
[19:15] <Ahmuck> hrm, no fixie
[19:15] <Ahmuck> any other ideas?
[20:01] <X-Raimo> hi all. I have server with sound card, it works as LTSP Server. Currently, when client plays music it plays from server's speakers. And my ltsp-clients with their sound cards need to play music via their own sound cards.
[23:33] <Ahmuck> so any other ideas on how to fix gdm?