[00:00] <shtylman> yakuake solves that
[00:00] <maco2> neversfelde: did the ffe stuff go through? was it uploaded?
[00:01] <shtylman> I always have terminals
[00:01] <maco2> shtylman: i havent tried to see how yakuake works with xmonad
[00:01] <maco2> shift+mod+return works dandily for me :)
[00:01] <nixternal> krunner & yakuake, all I need in life
[00:01] <nixternal> alt+f2 chrom<enter>
[00:01] <neversfelde> maco2: ffe went through and I hope it is uploaded now
[00:02] <maco2> neversfelde: yay
[00:02] <maco2> i need to learn to file a ffe
[00:02] <maco2> and then upload spim
[00:02] <neversfelde> I will try to get it into debian now. Well after I retur from my next vacation next week :/
[00:02] <maco2> and then learn to deal with debian
[00:02] <maco2> and upload it there too
[00:02] <Riddell> what's spim?
[00:02] <maco2> Riddell: mips emulator
[00:02] <maco2> lets you step through assembly
[00:03] <maco2> no, not a kde app
[00:03] <maco2> newly BSD licensed though so it gets to shift from multiverse to universe :)
[00:10] <nixternal> yikes, vim is destroyed in lucid
[00:10] <shtylman> ?
[00:11] <nixternal> error detecting my scripts in .vim and .vimrc, python is broken "Sorry, the command is not available in this version: python << EOF"
[00:11] <nixternal> that has worked for probably 5 or more years, sine I am using the same vimrc that long
[00:12] <nixternal> works on all machines but lucid all of a sudden
[00:13] <maco2> Riddell: hi hi i haz release team type question
[00:14] <maco2> Riddell: if the only added feature is in the windows version and all changes to the linux version (but its all one tarball) are bugfixes and "looky! shiny new license!" does that need an ffe?
[00:16] <nixternal> woo, new vim update fixes previously mayhem
[00:28] <crimsun> maco2: bug fixes-only -> file a bug, close the bug in the changelog, upload
[00:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: quite frankly I would tell them to implement an agnostic gui-packagemanagement wrapper like sensible-browser
[00:34] <apachelogger> because either way... kdi needs to depend on some sort of package install tool that is specific to KDE and of no use on an ubuntu system
[00:35] <apachelogger> so the only proper solution here is to have one wrapper for all them guis
[00:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, wouldnt it be a) more sensible and b) more of a proper solution if software-properties did the cache refersh itself, instead of relying on install-package
[00:36] <apachelogger> which probably relies itself on gdebi, which then relies on python-apt
[00:36] <apachelogger> loads of abstraction :)
[00:43] <crimsun> Riddell: is the "sleep 3" in your plasma-widget-networkmanagement procedure explicitly necessary?
[01:26] <apachelogger> crimsun: if the old instance is not terminated the service starutp will fail
[01:26] <apachelogger> I suppose jr ran into that and so he added the sleep ^^
[01:30] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: You about?
[01:32] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: yo
[01:33] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: I don't have my desktop back till the very end of the month.
[01:33] <nixternal> heh, jjesse just committed too bzr, and then he just disconnected...what a shitty connection he has
[01:33] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: ouch, yah, that will definitely be to late
[01:33] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah.
[01:33] <nixternal> you want me to take a topic froom you to help out?
[01:33] <DarkwingDuck> I just upgraded my notebook to Lucid
[01:34] <nixternal> I can take either games, media, or web
[01:34] <nixternal> you can keep desktop :)
[01:34] <nixternal> or I can 2 of the 3 listed to help you out
[01:34] <DarkwingDuck> And I have to rework the netbook docs
[01:35] <nixternal> jjesse: you committed to bzr and then disconnected froom irc...great connection there
[01:35] <DarkwingDuck> what the hell would be in games and do we really need them?
[01:35] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: hrmm
[01:35] <nixternal> yes
[01:35] <DarkwingDuck> ??
[01:35] <nixternal> answer this: Can I run Windows games?
[01:35] <nixternal> that's one we will need to answer...point out things like Cedega and that other one, as well as Wine maybe
[01:36] <DarkwingDuck> .... ahh
[01:36] <nixternal> something brief saying there are a bunch of games in the repos (ie. kde-games, gnome-games, and some other top games)
[01:36] <nixternal> I did games before, so I could easily do it again
[01:36] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, thanks.
[01:36] <nixternal> web will be easy too
[01:37] <nixternal> I will take web and games, cool?
[01:37] <nixternal> or media and games?
[01:37] <DarkwingDuck> Media
[01:37] <nixternal> web will be an easy one, probably easier than media, so I can take that too
[01:37] <nixternal> groovy
[01:37] <nixternal> OK, media and games are mine, all  mine
[01:37] <DarkwingDuck> I'll do desktop, Netbook and Web
[01:37] <nixternal> yeah, web should be super simple
[01:37] <nixternal> have to take the dogs out and get a bit to eat...back in a bit
[01:37] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah, not much has changed,
[01:37] <DarkwingDuck> kk I'll be here.
[01:39] <DarkwingDuck> jjesse: bad connection tonite?
[01:39] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: It works great
[01:41] <freinhard> the recent ubiquity fixes haven't been released yet?
[01:41] <jjesse> DarkwingDuck: a bit
[01:41] <jjesse> plus signing into my vpn at work disconnects me here
[01:45] <DarkwingDuck> ahhh
[02:02] <jjesse> nixternal: haha just commited some changes :)
[02:07] <DarkwingDuck> akodani still is having a pissing match with my system.
[02:08] <DarkwingDuck> maco2: Wacom drivers are working in Lucid now...
[02:08] <maco2> DarkwingDuck: yay
[02:09] <DarkwingDuck> I was happy because my tablet now works
[02:21] <verbalshadow> DarkwingDuck: did you see the tablet KCM on http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/kcm+tablet?content=114856&PHPSESSID=15ad524778c841a97b0de5857b7b8927
[02:21] <DarkwingDuck> Yes, I have not tested it yet.
[02:22] <DarkwingDuck> That's on my todo list now that my house is packed.
[02:22] <DarkwingDuck> It's after my finishing these docs LOL
[02:23] <verbalshadow> let me know, i am thinking about buying a new intuos
[02:23] <DarkwingDuck> Ahh, I got a Referbished ThinkPad X41
[02:24] <DarkwingDuck> Wacom drivers work on Lucid. I have not yet gotten to the fingerprint scanner
[02:26] <DarkwingDuck> grrr... I hate my life. I actually forgot to backup my key *sigh*
[02:33] <verbalshadow> and you got rid of the old computer already? or did you format over it?
[02:34] <DarkwingDuck> It's packed.
[02:34] <DarkwingDuck> I'm moving cross courntry...
[02:49] <ScottK> maco2: No, that doesn't need an FFe.
[02:51] <maco2> ScottK: ok thank you :)
[02:51] <maco2> now to figure out why pbuilder is falling over
[02:51] <ScottK> maco2: If someone tells you different, then I hearby wave my magic wand over it and it has as much FFe as it needs.
[02:52] <maco2> ScottK: haha thanks
[02:52] <maco2> ScottK: any idea what *this* is? http://paste.ubuntu.com/391402/
[02:52] <maco2> (noting that it's for lucid and lucid has debhelper 7.4 and unless math changed recently 7.4 >= 5 evaluates as "true")
[02:53] <ScottK> The problem is in line 2 I think.
[02:54] <maco2> yeah thats kinda what i was figuring but i cant make heads/tails of that error message
[02:54] <maco2> is that "dpkg go boom"?
[02:54] <ScottK> It is.
[02:54] <ScottK> It would appear that it's only the victim though.
[02:55]  * maco2 tries to update the pbuilder again, though was just done 2 hours ago
[02:55] <persia> If that doesn't work, try creating a new one: sometimes the tarballs get wedged
[03:22] <DarkwingDuck> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRG
[03:26]  * ScottK hands DarkwingDuck an "H".
[03:27] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, how do I add Thunderbird to the KWallet so I can decrypt OpenPGP signed messages?
[03:28] <DarkwingDuck> I would use KMail except Akonadi is being a little $@(&#( in Lucid still
[03:29] <DarkwingDuck> and I'm about to start bashing my head against the only working computer I have at the moment
[03:29] <shtylman> DarkwingDuck: sounds like progress
[03:29] <DarkwingDuck> Yes It is
[03:30] <DarkwingDuck> It's all in rebuilding my system... I love new computers.
[03:30] <DarkwingDuck> Next time I'm going to clone my HD
[03:35] <maco2> persia: creating a new tarball seems to have worked. thanks
[03:41] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, got that working..
[03:42] <DarkwingDuck> Now, I have to see what I can do to fix Akonadi
[04:04] <nixternal> the best Chuck yet tonight!
[04:05] <DarkwingDuck> RAW is good
[04:42] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, having a build issue with cmake...
[04:43] <DarkwingDuck> apparently it's not moving it to where it should be for KDE4
[04:45] <DarkwingDuck> Any ideas? http://pastebin.com/74iutXyq
[04:57] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: sudo apt-get install kdelibs5-dev
[04:58] <nixternal> it can't find FindKDE4Internal.cmake which is in kdelibs5-dev
[05:00] <DarkwingDuck> ahh ty
[05:04] <nixternal> since I have done my good deed for the year, I shall now go to bed...g'nite
[05:06] <DarkwingDuck> nite lol
[05:50] <jussi01> o/
[05:51] <jussi01> Riddell: hrm, were those instructions meant for lucid or karmic?
[09:42] <freinhard> shtylman: i bet there isn't a ready to use .deb with your ubiquity changes? ( i guess i can't build them on a liveCD without internet connection)
[11:02] <neversfelde> apachelogger: choqok - 0.9.55a-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa2  is in lucid in the beta backports ppa
[11:06] <neversfelde> if you are ok with it, I will change it, delete the package and reupload?
[11:08] <Riddell> neversfelde: don't we want that in the main archive?
[11:09] <neversfelde> Riddell: it is in the main archive, that is a karmic backport, that accidently was build for lucid, I think
[11:11] <Riddell> aah
[13:01] <Torch> how do i get debug packages for kde 4.4.1 on karmic?
[13:03] <Riddell> install <sourcepkg>-dbg
[13:04] <Riddell> dantti: when doing a distro upgrade the name and description don't seem to be picked up by kpackagekit
[13:04] <Riddell> dantti: as far as I can tell the backend gets them correctly
[13:04] <Riddell> dantti: how can I find out where they get lost?
[13:05] <dantti> Riddell: hmm let me see..
[13:06] <Riddell> I tried using qdbus to see if I could workout the magic to ask packagekitd directly but failed
[13:07] <dantti> it's a bit complicated to do that with qdbus, since you have to get a tid and then talk to another interface
[13:08] <dantti> which iirc will sease it's existence if not used quickly
[13:08] <Riddell> mm, the whole tid thing always seemed excessively complex to me
[13:11] <Riddell> means I don't have an easy way to find out if the fault is in the backend or the frontend
[13:11] <dantti> Riddell: well you can always run packagekitd with --verbose
[13:12] <dantti> but using the python apt backend I must admit is a bit harder to debug
[13:12] <dantti> but if the signal is emmited then you will get it
[13:13] <dantti> Riddell: I have just looked at the kpk code and pk-qt code and  it is ok
[13:13] <dantti> it sets the name and description of update
[13:13] <dantti> which pk send to it
[13:14] <dantti> i think if you run with --verbose you will see the distroUpgrade signal being emmited
[13:22] <Riddell> dantti: here's the log, no obvious issues I can see although I'm not familier with its output http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/packagekit-log
[13:22] <dantti> here -  emitting distro-upgrade unknown, (null), (null)
[13:24] <Riddell> ah, so it is something in the backend
[13:24] <dantti> yup
[13:24] <Riddell> or the daemon
[13:24] <dantti> Riddell: I doubt it's on the daemon, It's more likely to be in the backend
[13:32] <Riddell> "distro-upgrade  stable  melon 11.04.1 LTS       The latest stable release"
[13:32] <Riddell> that's what the backend is passing to lib/python/packagekit/backend.py distro_upgrade()
[13:33] <Riddell> so seems to be an issue in the daemon or its python bindings
[13:46] <dpm> dantti, hi, if I'm not mistaken, you are kpackagekit upstream, aren't you? I've been looking at an issue with translations on bug 534915. If you have the chance to look into that and need more info, just let me know
[13:54] <dantti> dpm: i get those po files from a fedora dude that has a script to get them all
[13:54] <dantti> I'll poke him about this issue
[13:58] <dantti> Riddell: today I can't help much on this issue, poke me tomorrow I'll try to help finding out what happened
[14:00] <Riddell> dantti: thanks for your help so far, I'll e-mail my debug digging
[14:04] <Sput> agateau: what's the relationship between application indicators and the new systray spec going to be in the future? to me it looks like they both try to solve the same problem
[14:05] <agateau> Sput: sure they do
[14:05] <agateau> Sput: actually they use the same spec :)
[14:05] <agateau> Sput: except it's named application indicator on the GNOME side
[14:06] <Sput> agateau: this means that in the future (after approval by fdo) applications using the dbus spec will support both automatically?
[14:06] <dpm> ok, thanks dantti
[14:06] <Quintasan> \o
[14:06] <agateau> Sput: what do you mean "support both"?
[14:07] <agateau> Sput: application indicators and KStatusNotifierItem use the same dbus protocol
[14:07] <agateau> (modulo bugs)
[14:07] <Sput> agateau: well, currently we have support in quassel for libindicate, for status notifier (using dbus), and for the old-style trayicon (as fallback)
[14:07] <Sput> agateau: I'd be happy to reduce that number :)
[14:08] <agateau> Sput: you need to keep old-style trayicon until status notifier is more widespread (especially on the gnome side)
[14:08] <Sput> agateau: so if in the near future both libindicate and KStatusNotifier are using the same spec (in org.freedesktop, I assume?), would that mean that wouldn't have to have explicit libindicate support?
[14:08] <agateau> mmm no
[14:08] <agateau> libindicate != libappindicator
[14:08] <agateau> this is a bit messy
[14:08] <Sput> meh, this is confusing!
[14:09] <agateau> Sput: I agree :/
[14:09] <Sput> ah. libappindicator is equivalent to kstatusnotifier, and libindicate is an alternative to knotify?
[14:10] <agateau> I think we can say this, yes
[14:11] <agateau> actually, not exactly
[14:11] <Riddell> libindicate is for the message indicator applets
[14:11] <agateau> Sput: rather, libindicate is (according to canonical design team) a better approach to communicate human messages than using the systray
[14:11] <Sput> hmmm, any chance that libindicate and knotify are using the same spec (org.freedesktop.Notifications)?
[14:11] <agateau> no
[14:11] <Sput> agateau: I thought the whole idea of the new dbus specs is separating the information from the visualization... hmm
[14:12] <agateau> in the case of notifications, it is already separated
[14:13] <agateau> Sput: from the design team point of view, an application should choose either "app indicator" (aka libappindicator aka kstatusnotifieritem) or "message indicator" (aka libindicate)
[14:13] <agateau> but an application which deals with human to human interaction should use the message indicator
[14:14] <agateau> on the gnome side, they removed systray support from apps where they added message indicator support
[14:14] <agateau> but that was a bit too bold for the kde side IMHO :)
[14:14] <Sput> guess so :)
[14:14] <agateau> the longer term goal is to reduce the clutter in the systemtray
[14:15] <agateau> they think messaging apps use of the systemtray is legitimate but could be improved, hence the message indicator
[14:15] <agateau> other apps should either not use the systemtray or get ported to app indicator because it gives more control to the desktop
[14:16] <agateau> and ensure a more consistent behavior
[14:17] <Sput> where app indicator is the new tray spec (kstatusnotifier)
[14:17] <Sput> hmmm ok. Quassel now automatically uses kstatusnotifier if it's present, and falls back to the old trayicon else. and in addition, there is the libindicate stuff you implemented, which needs to be enabled explicitly
[14:18] <agateau> Sput: sounds good then
[14:19] <Riddell> I'm all for removing systray applets where we have message indicator support, seems like silly duplication to me
[14:24] <Sput> applications will still have to implement both, because as a matter of fact, message indicator is still pretty much ubuntu-only
[14:24] <agateau> Sput: indeed
[14:24] <Sput> and tbh, I don't see that changing anytime soon
[14:25] <Sput> though Gentoo ships the plasmoid nowadays because I requested it to be able to test :)
[14:25] <agateau> yeah!
[14:25] <Sput> an old version though, I should probably also request a bump
[14:27] <Riddell> we did try to get message indicator plasmoid upstream since it's far better than the hacky one shipped by KDE, but aaron thinks it should be implemented using kstatusnotifiericon, trouble is nobody except him knows how that's possible
[14:28] <agateau> not sure he even knows :>
[14:28] <Riddell> mm
[14:29] <Riddell> rdieter: do you know if anyone in fedora has looked into packaging the message indicator plasmoid?
[14:29] <agateau> actually it could be possible, but would need a few extensions to the existing KSNI protocol
[14:30] <rdieter> Riddell: I don't think so, I could look into it though.
[14:30] <Riddell> agateau: it might be an idea to have an entry on kde-apps.org for it if you don't already
[14:30] <agateau> Riddell: good idea
[14:31]  * agateau adds this to his TODO
[14:44] <Quintasan> hngh
[14:44] <Quintasan> apachelogger: ping
[14:51] <Quintasan> hngh
[15:06] <shtylman> Riddell: when is beta freeze"
[15:06] <shtylman> so I can get the artwork in
[15:06] <shtylman> for the installer
[15:06] <persia> Thursday
[15:06] <shtylman> k... guess I will get to that tonight then
[15:06] <persia> heh
[15:07] <persia> shtylman: Note that there are *two* Beta Freezes this cycle.
[15:07] <shtylman> yea.... its all weird
[15:24] <rdieter> Riddell: (just got out of a meeting), so is https://launchpad.net/plasma-widget-message-indicator this it?
[15:29] <Riddell> rdieter: that's the one
[15:29] <Riddell> rdieter: it'll need libindicate-qt
[15:30] <Riddell> which is turn needs libindicate
[15:31] <Riddell> it has support upstream in kmail and quassel and there are patches for konversation and kopete ( agateau can tell you if I got any of those wrong)
[15:31] <agateau> Riddell: quite good,
[15:32] <agateau> Kopete support is not a patch, it's a plugin, hosted on launchpad
[15:32]  * agateau fetches the url
[15:33] <agateau> https://launchpad.net/kopete-message-indicator
[15:34] <Riddell> agateau: hmm, we still have it as a load of patches to kdenetwork
[15:34] <agateau> Riddell: you should be able to get rid of them then
[15:35] <Riddell> hmm, why do I have the feeling I failed to package that
[15:35] <agateau> :)
[15:36] <rdieter> Riddell: pardon my ignorance, but how is this related (if at all) to the usual kde notifier?
[15:37]  * rdieter found some links, reading up
[15:38] <Riddell> rdieter: it's a whole new indicator, it's one place to get notification of human to human messages rather than each app using its own systray applet
[15:38] <Riddell> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4043 has a summary
[15:41] <rdieter> so...it replaces or complements kde/plasma default notifier?
[15:42] <Riddell> rdieter: complements.  plasma popup notifications are too distracting for chat for me, I want to be able to ignore distractions at times, also they're not persistent
[15:42] <rdieter> ok
[15:42] <persia> "Enhances:" ?
[16:18] <Riddell> shtylman: hmm ubquity got uploaded but I don't see anything about the language selection bug in the changelog https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity
[16:56] <Riddell> yo glatzor
[16:56] <Riddell> glatzor, dantti: that missing distro upgrade string bug doesn't happen on karmic
[16:56] <Riddell> but I still have to do an SRU on karmic to fix pk-upgrade-distro.sh in packagekit
[16:57] <glatzor> hello Riddell
[16:58] <Riddell> glatzor: I added this patch to packagekit yesterday and the karmic SRU will need to do much the same thing http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/fix_upgrade_distro.diff
[17:04] <glatzor> seems to be ok
[17:08]  * Riddell runs the distro upgrader from karmic to lucid and crosses fingers
[17:10] <nixternal> let me know how that goes...I am thinking of a fresh install on this laptop, hoping it cures a couple of things I have noticed recently with Karmic
[17:13] <DarkwingDuck> The upgrade worked on my laptop
[17:14] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: what method did you use to upgrade?
[17:14] <DarkwingDuck> update-notifier-kde -d
[17:14] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: no wee problems at all?
[17:15] <DarkwingDuck> Other then akonadi SQL issues.
[17:15] <yuriy_work> my karmic is really acting up lately (Xorg is pinned at 100% of one CPU), but i don't think i'll be able to leave anytime soon -- they broke a kernel feature i need for work
[17:15] <yuriy_work> amazing thing is i barely even notice the CPU usage. hooray for quad core
[17:17] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: do you know if we or upstream have a bug for the akonadi problem(s)?
[17:17] <Riddell> yuriy_work: did you check if there were any likely guilty candidates among recent updates?
[17:18] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: I have not checked.
[17:18] <Riddell> apachelogger: do you know if we or upstream have a bug for the akonadi problem(s)?
[17:18] <DarkwingDuck> I upgraded last night and have not had time yet... I'm dealing with some LoCo Issues
[17:21] <yuriy_work> Riddell: haven't really looked into it, but there was a kernel update that i'm *not* using
[17:25] <yuriy_work> plus my time is all screwed up and the set time automatically setting won't stick
[17:26] <Riddell> apachelogger: bug 533990 approved, asac suggested we get the code upstream, I don't know dario's policy on that
[17:28] <Riddell> debfx: bug 531848 approved, kmozillahelper in main, we finally have firefox kde integration complete
[17:30] <asac> \o/
[17:30]  * asac should actually start using kubuntu now
[17:30] <asac> since i am mostly free from desktop team obligations ;)
[17:31] <asac> btw, when i met partners that plan to roll out ubuntu in their development department i was told that the great majority chooses kubuntu over ubuntu ;)
[17:31] <Riddell> ooh a convert :)
[17:31] <asac> just to inform you that you seem to be more attractive atm ;)
[17:31] <Riddell> asac: that is interesting
[17:31] <asac> so keep you guys motivated ;)
[17:31] <asac> Riddell: yeah. they said: they show them both and most look at it and pick kubuntu ;)
[17:34] <ScottK> ;-)
[17:34] <davmor2> Riddell: it's only cause ublog works properly now :)
[17:54] <Riddell> well upgrade from karmic to lucid worked well
[17:55] <Riddell> only issue I can see is message indicator didn't get moved to the systray
[17:55]  * apachelogger drops in
[17:55] <Riddell> battery did get moved though so the script is working to some extent
[17:56] <debfx> Riddell: nice :)
[17:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: possibly the switch is bugged
[17:56] <apachelogger> I think I use a composite condition for the indicator
[17:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: we and upstream have bugs for the akonadi problem ... there is only one (though fixing that in one particular way will result in another one)
[17:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: got the number?
[17:57] <apachelogger> looking
[17:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 448705
[17:57] <apachelogger> upstream bug is linked
[17:57] <Riddell> compositing seems to be turned off by default in lucid, that's the bug ScottK reported, wonder why it is
[17:58] <Riddell> strigi seems to be turned on by default, I'm not sure that's a good idea
[17:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: further implications on our side would be that, if we need to make akonadi run that script to initialize the standard mysql databases we also need to move loads of files from mysql-server-5.1 to the core package
[18:00] <apachelogger> also I came to wonder if the way akonadi uses mysql really requires those tables to be present ... because if not I would much rather have mysql changed so that it does not look for those tables if it was started with a special config option or cmdline arg
[18:00] <apachelogger> oh, and the other implication is that we would need to enhance the apparmor profile quite a bit because that initialization script seems to require a bit more access  than what is currently permitted
[18:02] <Riddell> apachelogger: does this affect all uses or only upgrades from previous versions?
[18:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: about getting kubunt-debug-installer upstream ... the idea was to make it easy for distros to add installers, so you could set just about any app as installer (that includes any kind of script of course)
[18:03] <apachelogger> using a script bares the risk of runtime problems + makes threading more of a pita + uses more CPU time...
[18:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: all, but not really all ;)
[18:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: it is a complicate issue
[18:05] <apachelogger> primarily it affects _all_ new installations in that akondi must call that default table init script, but does not currently do that which leads to the mysqld being a crybaby and make akondi fail
[18:05] <apachelogger> BUT it actually seems that akonadi works, mysql is just all whiny
[18:06] <apachelogger> then it affects _all_ installations that were upgraded from an earlier installation that uses an akonadi dbcreated with myql 5.1 (since those also lack the necessary tables)
[18:06] <apachelogger> and finally it seems to affect installations, where the db was created with 5.0, then upgraded to 5.1, in which particular case only the time tables seem to be missing
[18:07] <apachelogger> though judging from what I read in forums it is more of a random problem, which makes it all a whole lot more awful :(
[18:08] <Riddell> upstream seems remarkably unconcerned
[18:08] <apachelogger> yeah
[18:08] <apachelogger> also krake just keeps on telling people to run that script ;)
[18:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: anyhow, as I see it what needs to happen is find out if akonadi actually requires those tables, and if not somehow get rid of the error, or if it does, include the script into the startup process
[18:11] <apachelogger> or just use postgres ;)
[18:14] <Riddell> steveire: as the handy upstream on the channel, have you looked at this problem at all?
[18:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: he is not into the mysql stuff he said
[18:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: I suppose vkrause is to be poked, since he is the bug assignee akonadi server stuff
[18:16] <steveire> I don't have specific knowledge of it at least.
[18:18] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I'm not convinced about bug 529488, I think only kde-l10n-sr-latin has been eaten by kde-l10n-sr, the rest just haven't been updated by upstream
[18:18] <steveire> But vkrause is in #akonadi atm if you want to raise him there.
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: hmm, but the two install conflicting files...
[18:19] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: for
[18:19] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: for kde-l10n-sr yes, so I removed the -latin there
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> ah, ok
[18:19] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell, apachelogger, Since i am not using Akonadi as I have found ways around it ATM... I don't know much about it but, if you wnat to use me as a test platform for scripts etc I'll volunteer.
[18:20] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: theoretically though, the translations for the locale variants have already been imported, yes?
[18:20] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: ca-valencia I'm uploading now, it had a packaging problem in 4.4.1
[18:20] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I'll invalidate that one
[18:20] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yes, assuming launchpad suports those variants which I think it does
[18:21] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: so the more general question is do we want to remove language packs that KDE doesn't ship in 4.4
[18:21]  * apachelogger would think so
[18:22] <JontheEchidna> In my opinion, upstream is not shipping them for a reason, plus we already have the old translations imported
[18:22] <apachelogger> if they did not meet KDE's criteria, they shouldnt meet ours either
[18:22]  * Quintasan this is a good idea
[18:22] <JontheEchidna> plus more languages might go the way of sr/sr-latin and install conflicting files
[18:22] <Quintasan> Translators agree that no translation is better than borked translation
[18:22]  * Quintasan joined kde-l18n-pl
[18:22] <Riddell> that's quite a few http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/fT2v7ADT
[18:24] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: is today your archive day?
[18:24] <JontheEchidna> if so, I won't bug you with stuff you'll get around to anyways ;-)
[18:25] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: it is, requests accepted, I probably won't get through all the bugs
[18:25] <JontheEchidna> bug 532626, bug 532629 and bug 532712
[18:25] <Riddell> for asdf in kde-l10n-af kde-l10n-as kde-l10n-be kde-l10n-be-latin kde-l10n-bn kde-l10n-bnin kde-l10n-br kde-l10n-crh kde-l10n-cy kde-l10n-fa kde-l10n-ha kde-l10n-hne kde-l10n-hsb kde-l10n-hy kde-l10n-ka kde-l10n-ku kde-l10n-mr kde-l10n-ms kde-l10n-ne kde-l10n-oc kde-l10n-or kde-l10n-rw kde-l10n-se kde-l10n-si kde-l10n-ta kde-l10n-te kde-l10n-th kde-l10n-uz kde-l10n-uz-cyrillic kde-l10n-vi kde-l10n-xh kde-l10n-zhhk; do echo ${asdf}; lp-remove-package.py -u 
[18:26] <JontheEchidna> mailody and dbus-1-qt3 got removed from sid, and mailody-kde4 has been in alpha for 2 years
[18:26] <apachelogger> oh dear
[18:26] <Quintasan> :O
[18:26] <apachelogger> Riddell, JontheEchidna: did you take a look at kde-l10n-common?
[18:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm afraid that's still on my TODO
[18:27] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: good to know :)
[18:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: I briefly read the e-mail and couldn't quite work out what it was
[18:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: it is one packaging branch that can be shared across all of kde-l10n-*
[18:27] <JontheEchidna> same here ^
[18:28] <JontheEchidna> oh, neat
[18:28] <Riddell> apachelogger: and some magic to make the source packages?
[18:28] <apachelogger> aye
[18:28] <Riddell> sounds good
[18:28] <apachelogger> you do a chance once, then use an included script to build the packages from that branch
[18:28] <apachelogger> I'll do the 4.4.2 l10n packages, to iron out any problems
[18:29] <JontheEchidna> does it do the .desktop translation grabbing?
[18:30] <apachelogger> of course
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> ah, that's in debian/rules
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> nvm, was looking in the .sh
[18:30] <apachelogger> well, the .sh invokes the grabbing
[18:30] <Riddell> nixternal: are you aware of bug 460225 for the docs packaging?
[18:30] <apachelogger> see bzr-buildpackage cmd
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> ah, kk
[18:42] <Quintasan> apachelogger: kubuntu-debug-installer worked fine when kontact crashed, good job :)
[18:42] <Quintasan> kubotu: order cookies for apachelogger
[18:42]  * kubotu slides a whole bunch of world's finest cookies down the bar to apachelogger.
[18:42] <apachelogger> cool
[18:42] <apachelogger> ...but not perfect just now :)
[18:42]  * Quintasan goes back to classes and objects magic
[18:44] <apachelogger> neversfelde: btw, what was the problem with blogilo keeping updating?
[18:48] <Quintasan> hmm, We should consider replacing skanlite with skansuite at some point
[18:49] <Quintasan> but that won't be ready any soon
[18:51] <neversfelde> apachelogger: no idea, lex reverted the change and made it conflict bilbo
[18:51] <apachelogger> ic
[18:52] <neversfelde> I never tested, if the upgrade karmic 4.3.5 => lucid works now, but it is on my todo
[18:58] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: Ping
[19:10] <shtylman> Riddell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/changes/3896.1.3
[19:11] <shtylman> I guess ev didn't make a note of it in the changelog
[19:22] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: pong
[19:22] <DarkwingDuck> strange happening with the plasma network widget
[19:22] <DarkwingDuck> It took 5 minutes to accecpt my connection.
[19:22] <DarkwingDuck> Also, has my wireless as eth1...
[19:23] <DarkwingDuck> but still works
[19:23] <Riddell> sebas proably the best guy to report to
[19:23] <DarkwingDuck> kk
[19:24] <ScottK> Riddell: Is there any functional advantage to the Plamsa widget over KNM? (e.g. works with hidden SSIDs)
[19:27] <Riddell> ScottK: no and I don't think it works with hidden SSIDs, that's still on sebas's todo.  it's more a case that it's the frontend upstream are supporting going forward
[19:28] <ScottK> I think it should have some advantage before we switch.
[19:28] <Riddell> I'm not convinced we should change give imperfect feedback on the list and with DarkwingDuck above
[19:29] <ScottK> If plasma crashes do you still lose network connectivity with the widget?  I have a vague recollection of that getting fixed, but I don't recall for sure.
[19:29] <DarkwingDuck> I can kill plasma and see what it does...
[19:29]  * Riddell kills plasma
[19:30] <Riddell> still works here
[19:30] <Riddell> I think that's all in the kded module now
[19:30] <sebas> yes, the thing is now handled in kded
[19:30] <DarkwingDuck> Yup, still works
[19:30] <sebas> btw, I'm fine with shipping knetworkmanager as well
[19:30] <ScottK> Good.
[19:30] <ScottK> Hello sebas.
[19:30] <sebas> it's your call to decide that
[19:30] <DarkwingDuck> Hey sebas
[19:31] <sebas> I think we're pretty close matching knm's functionality (and exceeded its beauty already :))
[19:31] <sebas> hey guys :)
[19:31]  * sebas is on VPN support right now, btw, already kind of works
[19:32] <sebas> actually, I can connect to a PPTP VPN just fine, the openvpn stuff doesn't work (which is probably an issue with my test setup)
[19:32] <sebas> for hidden wireless, that's a bug on Bille's table right now, when that's fixed, I'll polish this up in the plasmoid
[19:32] <sebas> And if Will fixes it, then it'll probably also work in knm
[19:34] <shtylman> sebas: yay for vpn :)
[19:34] <sebas> DarkwingDuck: Can you have a look at what ifconfig tells you, then compare that to nm-tool, and make sure you've got the latest version of the plasmoid installed? (I got an outdated one)
[19:34] <shtylman> wanna know when vpnc works
[19:35] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: yeah, give me a sec
[19:36] <sebas> shtylman: once I've committed the VPN stuff I'm working on, you could test it for me
[19:37] <sebas> in theory, if networkmanager has a VPNC plugin, it'll work with the plasmoid as well
[19:39] <Quintasan> DarkwingDuck: ping
[19:40] <shtylman> sebas: yea... most deff
[19:40] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: pong
[19:40] <shtylman> sebas: just point me at source or anything and I can test
[19:40] <sebas> shtylman: will do, thanks
[19:41] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: what's up?
[19:41] <Quintasan> DarkwingDuck: I asked this one but I forgot. Do you have an ETA or predetermined deadline when docs have to be finished?
[19:42]  * Quintasan wants to do some translating
[19:42] <Quintasan> :P
[19:42] <ghostcube> o/
[19:42] <Quintasan> ghostcube: \o
[19:42] <ghostcube> hi Quintasan :)
[19:43] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: Documentation string freeze is on the 25th. I know I want to review everything with beta 1 on the 18th
[19:43] <ScottK> sebas: Tonio is very interested in VPN testing too.
[19:44] <DarkwingDuck> I think nixternal and I are shooting for this weekend as a doc deadline
[19:44] <debfx> asac: are you going to put the latest firefox upload and kmozillahelper in the firefox-stable ppa?
[19:44] <Quintasan> DarkwingDuck: awesome
[19:45]  * Quintasan puts this on calendar
[19:45] <DarkwingDuck> Quintasan: shoot me an email and I'll get you a msg when the docs are ready.
[19:45] <DarkwingDuck> You have the release schedule Quintasan?
[19:46] <Quintasan> release schedule for what? Kubuntu?
[19:47] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: to check the version of a plasmoid?
[19:48] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: pardon?
[19:48] <DarkwingDuck> How do I check the version?
[19:48] <Riddell> apt-cache policy <packagename>
[19:49] <DarkwingDuck> policy. got ya
[19:52] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/392019/
[19:57] <sebas> DarkwingDuck: looks like eth1 *is* your wireless interface, so that's correct
[19:58] <sebas> DarkwingDuck: as to the "connecting takes 5 minutes", does this go faster with knetworkmanager or nm-applet?
[19:59] <ScottK> Reading https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DeviceKit_versus_SolidHAL I wonder what Ubuntu did for Gnome.
[20:01] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: knetworkmananger. However, nm-applet doesn't drop my connection when I first connect to a new connection. knetworkmanager
[20:01] <DarkwingDuck> did
[20:03] <sebas> DarkwingDuck: right now, I'm only interested in the applet
[20:03] <DarkwingDuck> Oh I know.
[20:04] <DarkwingDuck> I'll keep testing it for you too. More I can do the better.
[20:04] <sebas> so I stil ldon't know for sure if the issue is there with the plasmoid only :)
[20:04] <DarkwingDuck> Hang on... Let me reboot and see what she does.
[20:04] <DarkwingDuck> BBIAB
[20:04] <sebas> you don't need to reboot
[20:05] <sebas> unload the kded module, the start knetworkmanager
[20:05] <sebas> to switch back, killall knetworkmanager, the load the kded module
[20:05] <sebas> (you can even leave the plasmoid in all the time)
[20:07] <DarkwingDuck> bla... hang on. Have to reinstall it.
[20:38] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: Okay...
[20:39] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: Here is the new issue. It wouldn't auto-start however, once I started it (qdbus org.kde.kded /kded org.kde.kded.loadModule networkmanagement) then it connected just fine
[20:40] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: the applet still wont scan for connections. Only the one I setup
[20:41] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: nevermind...
[20:41] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: when I click on the connection it shows. But, only after I manually started the applet
[20:42] <sebas> DarkwingDuck: that's the idea
[20:42] <DarkwingDuck> Okay, then it works.
[20:42] <sebas> if there are preconfigured connections, you'll get only those
[20:42] <sebas> if you click "show more", you'll get all
[20:42] <DarkwingDuck> Got ya.
[20:43] <DarkwingDuck> Then it works except fro auto starting.
[20:43] <DarkwingDuck> *for
[20:43] <sebas> if you click on an interface, it'll show all connections suitable for this interface (so sorts out wired, for example, but will also show new networks)
[20:43] <sebas> with "auto starting", you mean "load kded module automatically?
[20:43] <DarkwingDuck> Right. It wouldn't run till I ran the command qdbus org.kde.kded /kded org.kde.kded.loadModule networkmanagement 
[20:44] <sebas> ok, that's expected
[20:44] <DarkwingDuck> I just have to remember that or add it to my auto start
[20:44] <sebas> we could load it automatically, though that would break people
[20:44] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: Is there a fix to have plasma-netbook auto start on login?
[20:44] <sebas> 's  knm
[20:45] <DarkwingDuck> Right.
[20:45] <sebas> and nm-applet, unless they find out how to unload the module
[20:45] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Sort it.  Riddell put a hack in the installer, but it doesn't work for upgrades.  Need to work on that.
[20:45] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: Okay, just wondering. I actually like it but... that's not mainstream :D
[20:46] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: So, current fix for those of us testing it is to start it manually
[20:48] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: It needs to start automatically.  If you have both plasma-netbook and plasma-desktop installed, then there's a way to pick which one starts in systemsettings.
[20:49] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: Oh I know
[20:49] <ScottK> OK
[20:49] <DarkwingDuck> I'm just saying I personally like manually starting it.
[20:52] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: Anything else you need let me know
[20:57] <sebas> DarkwingDuck: sure :)
[20:58] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: my house just got packed so I have nothing except my lappy lol
[20:59]  * sebas has laptop 1 and two connected to the access point now and route all his traffic from laptop 1 through a VPN server on laptop2 to the Internet :>
[20:59] <sebas> I feel like I'm in the Big Bang theory
[20:59] <DarkwingDuck> hehehe
[20:59] <DarkwingDuck> I'm going to be having all sorts of fun when I get to MS and I get my desktop back.
[20:59] <sebas> MS?
[20:59] <DarkwingDuck> Mississippi
[21:00] <sebas> ah :)
[21:00] <DarkwingDuck> I'm getting transferred from San Diego to Mississippi
[21:00] <DarkwingDuck> US Navy is my day job
[21:00] <sebas> Is that a win, CA -> MS?
[21:00] <DarkwingDuck> Cost of living and my pay doesn't drop... Yup
[21:01] <shtylman> sebas: ++ for big bang theory
[21:01] <DarkwingDuck> Plus, I'll be starting a LoCo
[21:21] <al> is it a bug that e. g. Turkish has a purple "Newly translated in launchpad" bar but a dash in the "Changed" column here or do i get it wrong? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/quassel/+pots/quassel
[21:31] <apachelogger> sebas, shtylman: it aint no tbbt without a sheldon sitting around making classic pracitcal jokes!
[21:32] <apachelogger> on a related note: http://instantbazinga.com/
[21:32] <shtylman> apachelogger: hahahaha nice
[21:39] <nixternal> Riddell: no idea why that bug is present. kubuntu-docs hasn't provided a firefox startpage in a few releases...just commented on that bug
[21:42] <pielud> hi Ridell
[21:43] <pielud> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/531844 also appears in ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports
[21:44] <pielud> ...for ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports ????
[21:44] <shtylman> Riddell: ^
[21:46] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: whats ones were you taking again?
[21:46] <DarkwingDuck> I've got desktop and media or, desktop and web...
[21:51] <apachelogger> this is madness!
[21:52] <pielud> so bug 531844 also appears in kdebase-runtime-4.4.1-0ubuntu1~karmic1~ppa1 Any one that can fix this?
[21:52] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: you're just now figuring this out? :P
[21:52] <apachelogger> pielud: asking it 5 more times is not going to speed things up
[21:52] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: no, it is just ludicrous
[21:52] <apachelogger> why do I have to backport a straight forward fix manually? :P
[21:52] <DarkwingDuck> oh but of course...
[21:52] <apachelogger> that is so 90's
[21:53] <DarkwingDuck> now if we can just get it to say "All your base are belong to us"
[21:54] <apachelogger> we did do that at some point
[21:54] <apachelogger> tough that was also manually
[21:55] <DarkwingDuck> lol programmers with humor... My splash screen back in my red hat days was "Good morning Dave..."
[21:55] <pielud> no. 6 - have u fixed it <apachelogger>?
[21:55] <apachelogger> no
[21:56] <Riddell> pielud: you can just copy the files manually out of the sources into the right place
[21:56] <apachelogger> puny human, why do you think I would manually fix such a thing being obstructed by bad HCI? :P
[21:57] <Riddell> pielud: supplying a debdiff would speed up the process, but I'm afraid karmic backports aren't a priority compared to getting our next release working
[21:57] <pielud> cool Riddell, thanx for the other 1
[21:57] <pielud> forsure
[21:58] <pielud> i just had to note it. I don't know the kubuntu procedure, usually on openSUSE and FC.
[21:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: what I do not understand ... why dont we just install them xml files altogether?
[21:59] <nixternal> DarkwingDuck: games and media
[21:59] <apachelogger> instead of every once in a while fixing up a package because we considered it unnecessary to install the stuff into a package before?
[21:59] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: ok... i have to install plasma-desktop though
[22:00] <apachelogger> pielud: Successfully uploaded packages.
[22:03] <pielud> thanx, i do not understand your terminology, but i guess it's ready for download from ppa:kubuntu-ppa/backports
[22:03] <apachelogger> pielud: nah, first needs to be built
[22:04] <apachelogger> pielud: we only upload source packages to launchpad, then fancy machinery on launchpad builds the final debs and if all goes well publishes them
[22:04] <apachelogger> and only then they can be downloaded
[22:04] <apachelogger> so it should be available in a couple of hours
[22:04] <pielud> built? :-)
[22:04] <pielud> thanx
[22:06] <pielud> cheers guys!
[22:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: well debian doesn't install them because they're not (normally) needed
[22:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: in lucid I do install them but they're in kdebase-runtime-data which isn't ideal, they should be in some -dev package
[22:10] <apachelogger> *nod*
[22:10] <apachelogger> I already wondered why they are in the data pkg :)
[22:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: purely because there isn't a -dev package
[22:15]  * apachelogger thought that we had a runtime-dev at some point *shrug*
[22:18] <Tscheesy> apachelogger: is there kubuntu-one -Client in Wildlife?
[22:18] <apachelogger> nope
[22:18] <Riddell> apachelogger: that does ring a bell yes
[22:18] <JontheEchidna> technically nothing should ever need to link against a kdebase-runtime component
[22:18] <JontheEchidna> circular dep ftl
[22:18] <apachelogger> ah
[22:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: there is a kdepim-runtime-dev
[22:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: circular?
[22:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: everything depends on runtime anyway
[22:19] <JontheEchidna> nothing build-depends on it, though
[22:19] <JontheEchidna> which is where the ciruclar dependencies are dangerous
[22:20]  * apachelogger doesnt follow :P
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> kdebase-runtime getting dragged in as a build-dep of other kde modules has caused quite a bit of annoyance in the past
[22:24] <JontheEchidna> we/debian also go to lengths to prevent linkage against kdebase-runtime
[22:25] <JontheEchidna> making a -dev package would only make this harder, especially since it's just for running a portion of trunk with a trunk-1 release
[22:26] <apachelogger> the -dev doesnt have to depend on kdebase-runtime
[22:26] <apachelogger> also I think that only kdelibs mustn link against kdebase-runtime
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> kdepimlibs too
[22:29] <JontheEchidna> yeah, that's what was causing the issues in the past, making the whole pim stack dependent on kdebase-runtime being there
[22:29] <JontheEchidna> for building
[22:29] <apachelogger> well, the libs anyway ^^
[22:29] <apachelogger> kubotu: np
[22:29] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Klingon Battle" by Jerry Goldsmith [Star Trek: The Motion Picture] [http://open.spotify.com/track/392o8V771pEQjCQyNftGQ4] -- see http://www.last.fm/user/apachelogger for more