[00:00] <johanbr> after something goes up and then down, it tends to crash :)
[00:06] <seb128> good night everybody
[00:07] <gabaug> johanbr: but if it goes up and then down again, enough times, you can say it's reached a steady state :)
[02:12] <RAOF> Ok.  Filmstrip's not getting done before lunch, because it's lunch time!
[05:29] <tbird222> I've been running 9.10 for a long time, no recent major upgrades, but my mouse and keyboard froze-up today.   Don't really want to reinstall if I don't have to...
[05:30] <tbird222> Not sure how to reinstall the hardware drivers, if that's even the problem (?)
[05:32] <tbird222> Ok, then if I go to #ubuntu, is there a way to filter-out what I don't want...it scrolls too fast.
[05:32] <RAOF> tbird222: People replying to you should highlight you, like this.
[05:35] <tbird222> RAOF:  How do I do that for others, and can I automatically highlight responses that contain my nick?
[05:35] <RAOF> tbird222: Responses that contain your nick should be automatically highlighted.
[05:36] <RAOF> And similarly, anytime you use someone else's nick in a message that will highlight them.
[05:37] <tbird222> RAOF: Gotcha, Tx...
[05:41] <tbird222> I've enjoyed having Ubuntu on my desktop at work.  I support 40 PC's in 3 locations.  I only have 1 GB of RAM on my 5-yr-old Dell, but I can easily run everything I need to personally, along with Virtualbox with XP running in 256mb, with a Windows-based AS400 emulator running inside it.
[05:43] <tbird222> Then I use vinagre with its bookmarks to quickly vnc into any other desktop that has a problem; since it doesn't need confirmation, I can proactively do fixes on PC after people have left for the day.
[05:47] <tbird222> I like to run my main stuff in desktop #1: ksysguard, terminal, thunderbird, firefox, Lastfm / Desktop #2 I use for documents I'm composing or referencing. / Desktop #3 is for Windows XP in Virtualbox. / Desktop #4 is for Vinagre, with often 4 or 5 desktops up in tabs, including the Windows server.  Works great...
[05:49] <tbird222> But I'm only a "super-user" up to this point; how would I get involved in the development side, at least offering ideas, and then eventually helping to create/refine programs?
[05:50] <RAOF> tbird222: There are a number of ways to get involved.
[05:50] <RAOF> tbird222: One good way is learning how to submit good bugs, and then submitting good bugs.
[05:51] <tbird222> RAOF: Is that launchpad.net?
[05:51] <RAOF> tbird222: Another way is to learn how to triage bugs.  For both of these you'd want to be talking to the bugsquad, in #ubuntu-bugs.
[05:51] <RAOF> tbird222: That's our bugtracker, yes.
[05:52] <tbird222> Def: Triage
[05:52] <RAOF> Getting the bugs into a state where developers can usefully work on them - ensuring that all the needed information is available, setting the priority appropriately, etc.
[05:54] <RAOF> Another way to contribute is to help translate Ubuntu, which is also done on launchpad.net; this obviously requires you to know more than one language
[05:55] <RAOF> A third way is to get involved in packaging - incorporating fixes that other people have done into Ubuntu; #ubuntu-motu and the packaging guide would be your first port of call there.
[05:57] <tbird222> Ok, I'll go to launchpad.net and start getting familiar with it.  I also  bookmarked all those channels so I can start getting familiar with things.
[05:57] <RAOF> Finally, you can get involved in an upstream project - Ubuntu developers don't typically write the software in Ubuntu, we just make it convenient to install, ensure it plays nicely together, and such.
[05:58] <tbird222> upstream, meaning opensource community...(?)
[06:00] <RAOF> Right.  Projects like Banshee, F-Spot, Firefox, GStreamer, etc.
[06:05] <tbird222> Separate question/curiosity:  Windows Vista boots up using about 1GB of RAM on average, though you can trim it down quite a bit by playing with the startups and services...still, 600MB is pretty good.  My Ubuntu 8.10, 9.04 typically using about 250mb to boot-up, which I thought was great...now, 9.10 is boot-up in only 130~150mb.  What did everybody do to make it so amazingly lean?
[06:13] <^arky^> hi, trying to debug ATK problem. How I clean up all .gconf setting related at-spi , atk etc...
[06:27] <RAOF> Why don't I have an infinitely fast build box?  That would be terribly useful.
[06:28] <jmarsden> RAOF: Selling those might be a good business, too :)
[07:01] <pitti> Good morning
[07:01] <RAOF> Good morning.
[07:10] <pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
[07:10] <RAOF> Good.
[07:12] <RAOF> Fixing some text-escaping problems I've just noticed in the f-spot patch, and then it's *done*!
[07:12] <RAOF> Done, I say!!!!
[07:12] <RAOF> Also, atom CPUs are *not* designed for editing large images :)
[07:21] <didrocks> good morning
[07:22] <RAOF> Good morning!
[07:22] <pitti> RAOF: ooooh, congratulations!
[07:22] <pitti> RAOF: atom CPUs> yes indeed; in my best times I could add faster than them :-P
[07:22] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:25] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[07:30] <pitti> didrocks: today's live CDs failed to build, so we have to be more patient about the background test
[07:32] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, just saw that. I'm pretty confident not shipping the bin was the main issue in any case :)
[07:33] <pitti> crossing fingers!
[07:33] <didrocks> right ;)
[07:36] <didrocks> pitti: thanks for gir1.0-gmenu-2.0's NEWING btw :)
[07:37] <pitti> didrocks: oh, wasn't me
[07:37] <pitti> regular archive admin, I figure
[07:37] <didrocks> oh, ok :)
[07:37] <pitti> didrocks: oh, no
[07:37] <pitti> didrocks: why would it be NEW? I thought it was built by gir-repo before?
[07:37] <didrocks> right, but when it's not triaged on (source/bin) tuple?
[07:38] <didrocks> just on bin name, wathever source package it comes from?
[07:38] <pitti> right
[07:39] <pitti> didrocks: well, I'm not 100% sure, but you can see it from the mails you got -- just one ACCEPTED or a NEW/ACCEPTED pair
[07:39] <didrocks> ok, I was thinking it was a little more fine grained than that :)
[07:39] <didrocks> it was only the ACCEPTED one, indeed
[07:44] <pitti> OK, I'm off for some hours for a doctor appointment and visiting my grandfather
[07:44] <pitti> back around lunch
[07:47] <didrocks> see you pitti
[08:31] <seb128> good morning there
[08:32] <seb128> why is g-s-d crashing every time when booting my laptop docked now?
[08:32] <seb128> and starting it doesn't make keyboard work as expected, ie alt keys don't work
[08:33] <didrocks> hey seb128
[08:33] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:33] <RAOF> morning seb128
[08:33] <seb128> hey RAOF
[08:33] <seb128> had a good day?
[08:33] <RAOF> Yes.
[08:34] <RAOF> I'll have an f-spot patch for you shortly; I just need to properly escape the filenames in the save-confirmation dialogue.
[08:34] <RAOF> Or even dialog.
[08:34] <seb128> RAOF, excellent, thanks!
[08:35] <RAOF> Also, netbooks suck at image editing.
[08:35] <RAOF> :)
[08:35] <RAOF> They make excellent test beds for discovering race conditions.
[08:41] <didrocks> seb128: taking anjuta and gdm
[08:41] <seb128> didrocks, ok, you win gdl too if you take anjuta ;-)
[08:41]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[08:42] <didrocks> seb128: that's in the package as a free bonus, I guess ;)
[08:42]  * didrocks hugs seb128
[08:44] <didrocks> vala binding for anjuta :)
[08:59] <seb128> didrocks, doing cheese
[09:00] <didrocks> seb128: already done before you connect :)
[09:00] <seb128> didrocks, can you give me a list of things you did so we don't dup work?
[09:00] <didrocks> seb128: I gave you, now it's anjuta/gdl/gdm
[09:00] <seb128> didrocks, I'm reading -changes but you didn't upoad
[09:00] <seb128> didrocks, where?
[09:01] <seb128> didrocks, I didn't read cheese anywhere before, can you give it again now?
[09:01] <didrocks> no, because for me I've uploaded cheese before you connected
[09:01] <didrocks> let me see, I didn't checked my emails
[09:01] <seb128> didrocks, I got it now
[09:01] <seb128> didrocks, what else did you do?
[09:01] <seb128> so I just don't start on things because the email are in their way
[09:01] <didrocks> seb128: only cheese
[09:02] <seb128> ok, thanks
[09:02] <seb128> doing gnome-panel then
[09:02] <didrocks> seb128: it's in -changes
[09:02] <seb128> didrocks, <seb128> didrocks, I got it now
[09:02] <seb128> didrocks, it arrived 15 minutes ago though
[09:02] <didrocks> oh oki :)
[09:02] <seb128> and I checked my email when I started half an hour ago
[09:02] <seb128> no worry it's all good ;-)
[09:02]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[09:02]  * didrocks hugs seb128
[09:04] <didrocks> I uploaded just when I told you "lut", so thinking it was accepted. I'll tomorrow tell you on what I'm working/I've worked on when you connected :)
[09:05]  * ogra is confused ... 
[09:05] <ogra> so everybody around me rants about the window buttons sitting on the left still ...
[09:06] <ogra> mine moved to the right side when i switched off the PPA and started using the new theme from the archive
[09:06] <seb128> ogra, weird
[09:06] <ogra> so they are supposed to sit on the left still ?
[09:06] <seb128> light-themes does set the gconf key to have those to the left
[09:06] <seb128> yes
[09:07] <ogra> very strange
[09:07] <didrocks> I had a similar issue, even with unsetting the gconf key, still on the right. I had to change it manually
[09:07] <seb128> and they do on new install, guest session, upgrades there
[09:07] <ogra> thats metacity ?
[09:07] <seb128> no, the theme set the gconf keys
[09:07] <ogra> which key is that ?
[09:07] <seb128> the wm you use doesn't matter, the compiz decorator use that config too
[09:07]  * ogra wants to have defaults ... at least to be able to join the ranting ;)
[09:07] <seb128> ogra, look in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/90_light-themes
[09:08] <seb128> do you have that file?
[09:08] <ogra>  /apps/metacity/general/button_layout maximize,minimize,close:
[09:08]  * ogra checks his personal settings ... i dont think i touched it but you never know
[09:08] <seb128> right
[09:09] <ogra> yeah, colon is on the other side ... strange
[09:09] <ogra> hmm
[09:09] <seb128> unset your key and you will get the system default
[09:09] <ogra> reset in gconf-editor sets it to menu:minimize,maximize,close
[09:10]  * didrocks hugs ogra, same issue here. Was thinking about a local issue and wanted to retry on a fresh upgrade
[09:11] <ogra> is something not calling update-gconf-defaults ?
[09:11] <seb128> ogra, didrocks: I would blame it on UNE settings
[09:11] <ogra> aha
[09:11] <seb128> ogra, do you have UNE installed?
[09:11] <didrocks> ogra: for what I saw, calling it, it gives you the right value in /var/lib/gconf/*
[09:11] <ogra> seb128, no
[09:11] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:12] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:12] <seb128> so dunno
[09:12] <didrocks> seb128: no, I talk about a desktop without UNE
[09:12] <ogra> seb128, but calling sudo update-gconf-defaults changed it
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[09:12] <didrocks> seb128: don't blame on me for this one :p
[09:12] <RAOF> seb128: f-spot debdiff attached to bug #484888 for your sponsoring fun.
[09:12] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[09:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good thank you, what about you?
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[09:12] <seb128> RAOF, rock on, doing that now
[09:12] <ogra> seb128, i guess the postinst misses something
[09:12] <seb128> RAOF, thanks a lot
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, good thanks
[09:12] <seb128> ogra, right, art guys, don't trust them for packaging ;-)
[09:12] <ogra> heh
[09:12] <seb128> ogra, I will make sure it updates default in the next upload
[09:13] <ogra> thanks :)
[09:13] <seb128> np
[09:14] <seb128> didrocks, doing libgweather too
[09:14] <didrocks> seb128: oki
[09:30] <seb128> RAOF, your editing patch works nicely
[09:30] <seb128> I found a small bug though
[09:30] <seb128> will file it on launchpad later
[09:31] <seb128> if you do change and press save it doesn't save a version with the changes
[09:31] <seb128> you have to save as and use a different name
[09:44] <RAOF> seb128: By “Doesn't save a version with the changes” do you mean that it doesn't save the changes at all, or that it overwrites the existing file, rather than saving a new version?
[09:45] <seb128> RAOF, I do:
[09:45] <seb128> open an image
[09:45] <seb128> crop it
[09:45] <seb128> click save as
[09:45] <seb128> type a filename
[09:45] <seb128> click save
[09:45] <seb128> and in nautilus the original file is updated
[09:45] <seb128> I mean I see the thumbnail for the file I opened update
[09:45] <seb128> without the cropping
[09:45] <seb128> it seems to just resave the original
[09:46] <seb128> and not the cropped version to the new filename
[09:46] <seb128> "click save", is "one you saved the file, go back to f-spot and click save"
[09:46] <seb128> once
[09:46] <seb128> ie do further changes
[09:46] <seb128> I would expect save to save further changes to the new name
[09:47] <RAOF> Oooooh, yes.
[09:47] <RAOF> That would be a reasonable assumption that I simply haven't thought of. :)
[09:47] <seb128> ;-)
[09:48] <seb128> we will call that bug fix and it will be for the next upload
[09:48] <seb128> I will already upload this version so it starts having testing etc
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> i didn't realise my extra mouse buttons worked in nautilus now
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> i'm sure they never used to
[10:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the previous, next ones?
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah. but i just checked in karmic and they work there too, so I'm not sure why i thought they never used to work
[10:16] <chrisccoulson> i must have not realised i was using those buttons ;)
[10:16] <seb128> ;-)
[10:18] <chrisccoulson> i know that they don't work in epiphany, which is a shame
[10:24] <seb128> didrocks, doing libgnomekbd
[10:24] <chrisccoulson> heh, i should really do some updates if there are actually any left ;)
[10:24] <didrocks> seb128: ok
[10:24]  * didrocks makes his first coffee of the day
[10:24] <seb128> oh, coffee
[10:25] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - good idea ;)
[10:25] <didrocks> anjuta was such a pain to build with the new vala binding :)
[10:25] <chrisccoulson> i've not had any coffee yet at all
[10:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, there is some left if you want yes
[10:30] <chrisccoulson> bah, tracker keeps making nautilus crash
[10:30] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's loaded at runtime now, no build option
[10:30] <seb128> I probably didn't notice because tracker is not installed there
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, i didn't realise. how does that work? (doesn't the built in tracker support need to link against libtracker-client?)
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> there is also a tracker tags plugin provided by tracker. that might be what's making it crash
[10:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/?id=e1e1fe0d505bdb9b53d7204bba0abeee52f73bca
[10:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, dlopen at runtime basically apparently
[10:36] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ah, that makes sense then
[10:36] <chrisccoulson> so there's no need for me to maintain a separate version of nautilus with tracker support in my PPA ;)
[10:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right ;-)
[10:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you actually use tracker and find it useful? or is that for testing?
[10:39] <seb128> I've not tried for a while but my previous experience was that it slowed down my system a lot and was not very useful for anything I do
[10:39] <chrisccoulson> it's useful on my desktop for indexing pictures
[10:39] <chrisccoulson> but, it's mainly for testing at the moment (although i don't really get a lot of time to do that)
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> is there any way of forcing apport to use staging when testing package hooks?
[11:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, dunno, would be a question for pitti I guess
[11:07] <thekorn> chrisccoulson, APPORT_STAGING=1 ubuntu-bug
[11:08] <chrisccoulson> thekorn, thanks!
[12:30]  * pitti waves, sorry for being so late today
[12:30] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti
[12:30] <seb128> hey pitti, every is alright?
[12:30]  * chrisccoulson waves back
[12:30] <seb128> everything
[12:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, APPORT_STAGING works
[12:31] <pitti> seb128: yes, as I said this morning I had a doctor appointment and visited my grandfather, so I had to leave at 8:45
[12:31]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, I joined after you left so I didn't knew that, but good to see you there and in one piece ;-)
[12:31] <pitti> ah, don't worry, I'm alright
[12:31] <pitti> I just started my hayfever treatment now
[12:31] <seb128> pitti, excellent ;-)
[12:32] <seb128> oh, is that time for that already?
[12:32] <seb128> it's still feezing there this week
[12:32] <pitti> apparently so; needs to be done when it didn't start yet
[12:32] <seb128> no flower or anything yet
[12:32] <seb128> ah, I see
[12:33] <pitti> it's an alternative treatment, let's see how it works
[12:34] <seb128> ok, good luck with it then ;-)
[12:47] <tjaalton> is there a meta-bug to add these monochrome trayicons to packages?
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> tjaalton, the icons need to be added to the theme rather than individual packages
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> i notice transmission needs a monochrome icon. we had one with the old theme ;)
[12:59] <didrocks> seb128: taking gnome-games and gnome-session
[12:59] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[13:00] <tjaalton> chrisccoulson: oh, ok. krb5-auth-dialog surely deserves those :)
[13:02] <seb128> didrocks, doing vinagre
[13:02] <didrocks> seb128: oki :)
[13:12] <didrocks> seb128: new gnome-games needs clutter 1.2 which needs more testing first (not sure we really want it on lucid). putting the update on stand-by
[13:12] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[13:13] <seb128> I think it would be a mistake to not upgrade clutter
[13:13] <seb128> but just giving my opinion there ;-)
[13:15] <didrocks> seb128: apparently, there is some issue on nvidia, and I have to test netbook-launcher first with it
[13:24] <seb128> didrocks, still doing gnome-session?
[13:24] <didrocks> seb128: just beginning it now, if you want it…
[13:24] <seb128> didrocks, no
[13:24] <didrocks> ok :)
[13:25] <seb128> I was wondering if https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940 is something we should try to fix in lucid
[13:25] <seb128> I don't like much the change there though it seems a to be hackish
[13:25] <seb128> I'm curious to know what other people think about it
[13:25] <chrisccoulson> thats what i though
[13:25] <chrisccoulson> s/though/thought
[13:26] <seb128> didrocks, ignore that for now, let's go on with updates
[13:26] <seb128> we can come back to fixing issues when we are done updating
[13:26] <seb128> didrocks, less multitasking = less stress during upgrades
[13:27] <didrocks> seb128: I agree. It seems a little bit haskish
[13:27] <didrocks> and there is already this gdm test with new gnome-session to test
[13:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, didrocks: thank you ;-)
[13:27] <didrocks> you're welcome :)
[13:27] <chrisccoulson> the submitter of that keeps asking me to review it for some reason
[13:28] <chrisccoulson> i think tedg told him i was the person to ask about it ;)
[13:28] <seb128> ah ok ;-)
[13:28] <seb128> feel free to comment on the bug saying that consensus is that this is too hackish for distro
[13:28] <chrisccoulson> in any case, gsm_manager_request_{shutdown,reboot} are the wrong places
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> as those code paths aren't triggered from the session dialog
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> only from the dbus interface
[13:40]  * seb128 grrrrs at vuntz for making gnome-panel build-dep on a non available gtk version
[13:42] <mclasen> it'll be available shortly
[13:42] <seb128> mclasen, thanks ;-)
[13:43] <chrisccoulson> heh, my desktop hates me. it sounds like it's about to take off
[13:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it had enough of rebuilding openjdk for days? ;-)
[13:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it's building firefox and xulrunner now
[13:44] <seb128> lol
[13:45] <seb128> do you have a fast machine?
[13:45] <seb128> you should probably get one if you don't with those
[13:45] <seb128> or at least use ccache
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> it's not particularly fast by todays standards, but it's better than doing all the heavy work on my laptop
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> it's an opteron 175 with 2GB RAM
[13:46] <pitti> fortunately it seems that these days computers don't decay as fast any more as they used to a decade ago
[13:46] <pitti> my amd64/3000 is five years old and still feels "fast"
[13:46] <pitti> any computer I had before felt utterly slow after three years or less
[13:47] <chrisccoulson> yeah, my laptop and desktop have similar performance (with the exception of the graphics - i have a 8800GTX in my desktop)
[13:47] <kenvandine> pitti, or after a year :)
[13:47] <pitti> seems these beasts are finally "fast enough"
[13:48] <kenvandine> my desktop box is only a 1.8, but  being dual core and only used for building seems plenty fast
[13:48]  * kenvandine is glad to have some place other than his laptop for building again :)
[13:48] <pitti> same here, I have a dualcore 1.2 GHz as my primary workstation (docked laptop)
[13:48]  * kenvandine hugs the 10k drive... but wishes it was a SSD :)
[13:49] <seb128> I use almost only my laptop nowadays
[13:49] <kenvandine> my laptop is a 2.53 though...
[13:49] <seb128> it's fast enough for most of the work I do
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> i think i'm going to get a SSD in my laptop
[13:49] <kenvandine> so nice and fast :)
[13:49] <seb128> only building gtk makes me wish he was building a bit faster sometime ;-)
[13:49] <pitti> if I can ever figure out how to get to the HDD in my laptop
[13:49] <kenvandine> but i have a dedicated build box
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: did you ever figure out how to take this Dell beast apart? I removed all the screws, but still nothing moved
[13:49] <seb128> kenvandine, you mean you have a ppa on launchpad? ;-)
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: -j4 :)
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i think i need to get a dedicated build box
[13:50] <seb128> pitti, on the mini it's under the keyboard
[13:50] <kenvandine> which is nice... it was out of commission for a while i replaced the disk with the 10K one
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> else i will become unpopular very quickly
[13:50] <seb128> pitti, I didn't try on the d630
[13:50] <kenvandine> seb128, hehe... yeah that too :)
[13:50] <kenvandine> building on my laptop makes other things i try to do less productive, so nice having another box
[13:50] <kenvandine> brb, rebooting
[13:51] <seb128> pitti, on the mini you have to unscrew 2 screws on the back, then you can go back to the front and get the keyboard out
[13:51] <seb128> pitti, by pulling on the left side around the alt key
[13:51] <pitti> chrisccoulson: we also have porter boxes, you know..
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i wasn't aware of that
[13:52] <seb128> ie put a ruler or something under the keyboard and try to get the keyboard out with it
[13:52] <pitti> seb128: ah, there's something like a clip there (and on the other side as well)
[13:52] <seb128> vuntz, lying, take a penalty card
[13:53] <seb128> vuntz, gnome-panel builds fine with gtk 2.19.6
[13:53] <seb128> (tarball don't set deprecated flag on by default)
[14:02]  * pitti chuckles about didrocks' gnome-session upload which documents changes to debian/changelog in debian/changelog :)
[14:02]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[14:03] <seb128> lol
[14:04] <didrocks> oupsss
[14:04] <didrocks> sorry :)
[14:04] <didrocks> that's because I'm only taking my third cup of coffee now
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> lol ;)
[14:05] <pitti> didrocks: don't worry, it's obvious it was meant to mean "new upstream release", it just looked funny :)
[14:06] <didrocks> pitti: right, I just can say that I didn't know where my brain was when writing that. Autotyping… :)
[14:06] <Nafai> Good morning
[14:06] <seb128> hey Nafai
[14:06] <pitti> didrocks: check with Julie?
[14:06] <pitti> hey Nafai, good morning
[14:07] <didrocks> pitti: I'll ask her when she will get back from work. She was even not speaking with me, I can't blame her unfortunately :-)
[14:07] <didrocks> hey Nafai
[14:08] <Nafai> Hey seb128, pitti, didrocks
[14:10] <kenvandine> seb128, why are we staying with evo 2.28.x?
[14:10] <seb128> kenvandine, oh come on
[14:10] <kenvandine> 2.29 not ready for an LTS?
[14:10] <pitti> RTFML? :-)
[14:10] <seb128> not you too
[14:10]  * kenvandine vaguely recalls hearing about this :)
[14:10] <kenvandine> hehe
[14:10] <seb128> I spent one hour writting a reply about that yesterday
[14:10] <seb128> I don't fancy rewritting it there now
[14:10] <kenvandine> ah... i haven't even opened evo today
[14:11] <seb128> read ubuntu-devel-discuss
[14:11] <kenvandine> i'll read it in a few
[14:11] <pitti> kenvandine: good morning
[14:11] <kenvandine> good morning :)
[14:11] <seb128> but basically a lts is not the cycle to take a rewrite
[14:11] <kenvandine> i assumed
[14:11] <seb128> especially for a project like this one which not known to be bug free on code changes
[14:11] <kenvandine> yup
[14:11] <seb128> kenvandine, good morning btw ;-)
[14:12] <seb128> kenvandine, just curious but why do you ask now? got people pinging you about it?
[14:12] <kenvandine> no, i got an e-d-s crash at login
[14:12] <kenvandine> and found the bug is filed upstream and fixed in 2.29.91+
[14:12] <kenvandine> bug 477186
[14:14] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, maybe we can backport the change?
[14:14] <kenvandine> maybe... it is a pretty big patch
[14:14] <seb128> ok maybe not then
[14:15] <seb128> did you notice any issue out of having apport triggered?
[14:15] <kenvandine> apport told me
[14:15] <seb128> if that's only that no need to bother I would say, especially if that's a one every now and then
[14:16] <kenvandine> yeah, i am surprised it is the first time i have gotten it
[14:16] <kenvandine> maybe it was a google problem that evo just didn't handle well
[14:16] <kenvandine> so we don't see it often
[14:16] <seb128> could be
[14:17] <kenvandine> let me see if the patch will apply
[14:17] <kenvandine> i won't put much effort into it... but if we can fix it easily... for an lts... it would be nice :)
[14:18] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, great work on libu1... i got a nice quote from directhex
[14:18] <seb128> right
[14:18] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, " it's approximately as complicated to make a full music store as it is to make a "hello world" app, with the binding."
[14:18] <seb128> kenvandine, rodrigo_: btw we need to solve the "nobody is looking at tomboy u1 bugs about sync issues"
[14:19] <seb128> kenvandine, rodrigo_: what workflow would work for the ols team so somebody look at those?
[14:19] <kenvandine> seb128, josh said he would subscribe the u1 hackers team to the tomboy package bugs
[14:19] <seb128> subscribing somebody?
[14:19] <kenvandine> they usually subscribe the team
[14:19] <kenvandine> and they do a rotation
[14:19] <kenvandine> so someone on duty everyday
[14:19] <seb128> ok
[14:19] <seb128> which team?
[14:19] <kenvandine> i'll check up on it
[14:19] <kenvandine> ubuntuone-hackers
[14:19] <kenvandine> i think
[14:19] <seb128> can I do that too? ;-)
[14:20] <seb128> I will do that when I cross some bugs about syncing
[14:20] <kenvandine> seb128, sure... go for it
[14:20] <kenvandine> josh already committed to doing it... so if he didn't, just sub them :)
[14:20] <seb128> ok ;-)
[14:21] <kenvandine> i swear evo is getting slower at filtering
[14:21] <kenvandine> i should really switch to procmail
[14:22] <Nafai> I'd use procmail if I didn't use google apps
[14:26] <kenvandine> Nafai, well gmail filtering is awesome
[14:26] <kenvandine> but for canonical mail.... i don't have that luxury
[14:26]  * Nafai nods
[14:29] <didrocks> kenvandine: I don't agree with awesome as long as it can't filter in mail headers like "X-Launchpad…"
[14:31] <kenvandine> didrocks, i guess i haven't tried filtering LP mail with it :)
[14:31] <Nafai> didrocks: Agreed, there are features of procmail I miss in google
[14:31] <didrocks> kenvandine: so, it either a "user issue" (fix it!) or it sucks :)
[14:32] <didrocks> that's why on my TODO, I have to switch my ubuntu email to my canonical adress with procmail… But I always find something more important to do first :)
[14:32] <kenvandine> hehe
[14:33] <kenvandine> my favorite feature of gmail filtering is actually the preview display of matching mails
[14:34] <didrocks> right, good to test, but still… no filtering on header, and consequently, lot of wrong positive in Launchpad :/
[14:35] <LaserJock> I've not had much problem filtering using gmail
[14:36] <LaserJock> on the other hand, I also took the approach that if I *have* to rely on filtering to keep sane I'm probably doing something wrong
[14:43] <rodrigo_> seb128, oh, assign them to me if you see them
[14:43] <kenvandine> seb128, can you please sponsor lp:ubuntu/libubuntuone and lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store
[14:43] <rodrigo_> seb128, who's watching them if not you?
[14:43] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, josh was going to add the team
[14:44] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, ah, ok
[14:44] <rodrigo_> but add the team to *all* tomboy bugs, I guess?
[14:45] <kenvandine> yup
[14:45] <seb128> kenvandine, ok
[14:45] <kenvandine> thx
[14:46] <seb128> rodrigo_, will do, I guess nobody is watching tomboy, I'm not I just looked to the open bugs while doing the tarball update
[14:46] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, if we're going to watch them it's ok, but if you find any not being dealt with, assign it to me
[14:47] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok thanks
[14:48] <rodrigo_> seb128, if we wacth some non-sync related bug in Tomboy, who do we assign it back to?
[14:48] <rodrigo_> ubuntu-desktop?
[14:50] <seb128> rodrigo_, nobody
[14:51] <seb128> just unsubscribe your team if it's not for you
[14:51] <rodrigo_> hmm, and are they forwarded upstream?
[14:51] <rodrigo_> although I think Sandy (tomboy developer) watched the Tomboy bugs in LP
[14:51] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, so, the packages are done then?
[14:52] <kenvandine> rodrigo_, i think so
[14:52] <kenvandine> lets see what seb128 says :)
[14:52] <rodrigo_> kenvandine, cool!
[15:00] <mvo> rodrigo_: that reminds me, it looks like my tomboy sync is not working because of "&" in the note title - its known AFAICS, when is the fix getting deployed?
[15:02] <kenvandine> pitti, seb128: so are we ready to drop eog from ubuntu-desktop?
[15:02] <pitti> where? what? why eog?
[15:02] <rodrigo_> mvo, hmm, I think it's already deployed, let me check
[15:02] <pitti> please not
[15:02] <kenvandine> well... so f-spot --view becomes the default viewer :)
[15:02] <kenvandine> i thought that was the plan
[15:02] <pitti> kenvandine: I thought f-spot editing was the cheap replacement for gimp
[15:02] <seb128> kenvandine, now way ;-)
[15:02] <pitti> but f-spot is sloooooooooooooooooooow
[15:02] <kenvandine> slow?
[15:02] <kenvandine> ok... i thought that was the plan
[15:02] <rodrigo_> mvo, no, not deployed yet, sorry, will be soon
[15:02] <pitti> kenvandine: there's a work item to add an "edit" button to eog which would call f-spot
[15:03] <kenvandine> no worries
[15:03] <kenvandine> ah... ok
[15:03] <kenvandine> cool
[15:03] <pitti> kenvandine: I think desrt has that ready to upload, it was just waiting on f-spot
[15:03] <kenvandine> f-spot seems ready
[15:03]  * kenvandine hugs RAOF
[15:03] <mvo> rodrigo_: thanks
[15:03] <pitti> indeed! I'm eager to try it
[15:03] <seb128> pitti, I did upload that eog change a week ago
[15:03] <seb128> pitti, not working for you?
[15:04] <pitti> seb128: ah, I wasn't paying attention then
[15:04] <seb128> pitti, both side should be working in lucid
[15:04] <pitti> ah, I removed mono the other day, thus I don't have f-spot installed
[15:04] <seb128> eog has the edit button
[15:04] <seb128> and f-spot does edit now
[15:04] <seb128> ok
[15:04] <seb128> pitti, freedom hater :p
[15:04] <pitti> so I don't have an edit button (which seems correct, I take it it checks for the existence first?)
[15:05] <seb128> it does
[15:05] <pitti> seb128: gthumb is not more or less free, but much better :) (SCNR)
[15:05] <seb128> pitti, it's a gconf key feel free to change it ;-)
[15:05] <seb128> pitti, /apps/eog/ui/external_editor
[15:05] <pitti> oh, that's fine
[15:06]  * pitti is a gthumb for browsing/viewing and gimp for editing type
[15:06] <pitti> but I'll still test it on the current CDs, for curiosity
[15:06] <chrisccoulson> i'd use gthumb if it stored metadata in the images
[15:06] <chrisccoulson> but it doesn't, and f-spot does :)
[15:07] <seb128> we have people complaining loudly about f-spot destroying datas
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> really?
[15:07] <seb128> ie changes some exif tag on import
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> oh, i've never noticed that before
[15:07] <seb128> and doesn't play nicely with timezone while doing so
[15:09] <seb128> it's bug #175191
[15:26] <didrocks> pitti: do you plan to do a python-distutils-extra release soon? Would be nice to get the new python-mkdebian in lucid
[15:27] <pitti> didrocks: oh, I thought I did already; I think last time I wanted to wait for testing migration
[15:27] <pitti> didrocks: I upload it right now, sorry
[15:28] <didrocks> pitti: no pb, I'm more than late for Quickly 0.4 already, it wasn't a blocker :)
[15:28] <didrocks> thanks a lot pitti
[15:37] <pitti> didrocks: done
[15:37] <didrocks> pitti: schweet \o/ thanks a lot :)
[15:42] <vuntz> seb128_: really, it builds fine with 2.19.6?
[15:42] <vuntz> hrm
[15:43] <vuntz> I guess I misread when some API was added
[15:47] <seb128_> vuntz, yes
[15:50] <vuntz> sorry about that
[15:50]  * vuntz hugs seb128_ 
[15:50]  * seb128_ hugs vuntz
[15:50] <seb128_> np
[15:56] <Riddell> kenvandine: libubuntuone1.0-cil for main or universe?
[16:01] <kenvandine> universe
[16:01] <kenvandine> Riddell, ^^
[16:02] <kenvandine> Riddell, th
[16:02] <kenvandine> +x
[16:12] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128, ArneGoetje, bryceh, didrocks, kenvandine, tkamppeter, tseliot: team meeting in 18 minutes, right?
[16:12] <pitti> rickspencer3: right; still wrapping up TB meeting
[16:12] <tseliot> yep
[16:12] <kenvandine> yup
[16:12] <didrocks> yes
[16:31] <rickspencer3> team meeting time?
[16:31]  * tseliot nods
[16:31]  * ArneGoetje is present
[16:31] <ccheney> here
[16:31] <seb128> hello
[16:32] <didrocks> hey
[16:32]  * pitti waves
[16:32] <rickspencer3> sorry, just got off phone call
[16:32] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09
[16:32] <rickspencer3> shall we begin?
[16:33] <kenvandine> ready
[16:33] <rickspencer3> first is outstanding issues from last meeting
[16:33] <rickspencer3> there was 1
[16:33] <rickspencer3> ACTION: pitti to drive "hiding X cursor" project
[16:33] <rickspencer3> note that for me, the cursor does not spin
[16:33] <seb128> I can't try
[16:34] <pitti> I uploaded a first fix for that last Friday
[16:34] <seb128> plymouth send me to vt1 at every boot
[16:34] <pitti> I think it's not perfect yet
[16:34] <rickspencer3> does anyone see the cursor spin or is it just the normal cursor for everyone?
[16:34] <pitti> but it avoids the spinning cursor for me during plymouth
[16:34] <ccheney> when do you see this cursor?
[16:34] <didrocks> it's working for me. But still, the cursor appear early on plymouth
[16:34] <ccheney> afaicr i don't see it
[16:34] <rickspencer3> after GDM loads
[16:34] <pitti> rickspencer3: hm, I don't see it at all during boot now; but I do see it between entering password and session start
[16:34] <rickspencer3> yeah
[16:34] <pitti> but that's not from gdm (where my patch already hides it), but from somewhere in GNOME that I didn't track down yet
[16:34] <rickspencer3> pitti, so you feel that you have accomplished this, but needs a bit more polish?
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'd say "in progress" then
[16:35] <ccheney> i probably see the same as pitti as i don't recall seeing it look wrong in any case
[16:35] <kenvandine> i don't think it spins for me
[16:35] <chrisccoulson> ooh, i nearly missed the meeting there
[16:35]  * ccheney can test to see if it spins or not after the meeting
[16:35] <rickspencer3> I'm not sure that we need to fix the non-spinning cursor after logging in
[16:35] <ccheney> ok
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: I wasn't sure either
[16:35] <pitti> rickspencer3: but I'd rather have it spinning than being "normal"
[16:35] <rickspencer3> pitti, maybe after the meeting you can explain what the current status is, and I can check into whether it is "done" or not
[16:35] <pitti> i. e. hide it or spin
[16:35] <rickspencer3> I suspect it is
[16:36] <pitti> rickspencer3: agreed
[16:36] <rickspencer3> pitti, but it's for such a short period of time, I don't think it would help to spin it
[16:36] <rickspencer3> okay
[16:36] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to follow up with pitti regarding cursor at boot changes, determine if requirement has been met
[16:36] <rickspencer3> next is partner update
[16:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, ?
[16:36] <kenvandine> ok
[16:37] <kenvandine> for ubuntuone, user defined folders are now configurable in nautilus
[16:38] <kenvandine> music store is still private beta, but i think will go public beta in a couple days
[16:38] <kenvandine> after the current testers test the uploads we did this morning
[16:38] <kenvandine> which include libu1 (with mono bindings) and the rb plugin
[16:39] <kenvandine> DX is getting into a more quiet bug fix mode which is nice :)
[16:39] <kenvandine> indicator-me should get the about me stuff fixed finally
[16:39] <kenvandine> this week
[16:39] <kenvandine> i think that is it for the partner update
[16:39] <pitti> kenvandine: including hiding the twitter entry line?
[16:39] <tkamppeter> hi
[16:39] <kenvandine> pitti, oh... let me check on that
[16:39] <kenvandine> dbarth wasn't very specific :)
[16:40] <rickspencer3> pitti, you want that to be hidden if no microblogging accounts are set?
[16:40] <kenvandine> i know the about-me stuff is on the list
[16:40] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes; it's currently nonfunctional if you haven't
[16:40] <kenvandine> there is a gconf key for that now
[16:40] <rickspencer3> that seems wrong, indeed
[16:40] <kenvandine> yup
[16:40] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I assume there is a bug to track that?
[16:40] <kenvandine> i'll make sure it gets done
[16:40] <kenvandine> i doubt it
[16:40] <kenvandine> i'll get one
[16:41] <rickspencer3> I think a bug report appropriately prioritized would be a good way to track that change
[16:41] <pitti> merci beaucoup
[16:41] <kenvandine> there is a bug
[16:41] <kenvandine> ok
[16:41] <rickspencer3> great
[16:41] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[16:42] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, all done with partner update?
[16:42] <kenvandine> yup!
[16:42] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu update?
[16:42] <rickspencer3> man, I never get coordinated with that guy
[16:42] <Riddell> hi
[16:42]  * rickspencer3 guilt
[16:43] <Riddell>  * KDE 4.4.1 is in
[16:43] <Riddell>  * Firefox KDE integration is in, yay, now only blocked on MIR bug 531848
[16:43] <Riddell>  * ARM images are now building, yay
[16:43] <Riddell> * may switch to network manager plasmoid on advice of upstream, asking for widespread testing now * still waiting on new logo from canonical designers
[16:43] <Riddell> done
[16:43] <rickspencer3> oh good, glad Riddell is more organized that I am :)
[16:43] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
[16:43] <rickspencer3> how did the KDE update last week go?
[16:43] <Riddell> the 4.4.1 update? no problems that I'm aware of
[16:43] <rickspencer3> great
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ccheney, mozilla status?
[16:44] <asac> epiphany port still missing. rest of the stack is there .... stuck on the new gtk_entry_icon api
[16:45] <asac> we discussed a way forward yesterday
[16:45] <ccheney> tried out several methods to get the gtkentry bits backported they failed so talked with asac and got a new idea of what to do, implementing it today
[16:45] <ccheney> see asac :)
[16:46] <rickspencer3> ccheney, so one more day?
[16:46] <Riddell> ah asac, how about that MIR?
[16:46] <ccheney> rickspencer3: hopefully yea if this does work it shouldn't take more than another day
[16:47] <ccheney> rickspencer3: and it sounds like it is a workable solution
[16:47] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:47] <rickspencer3> time is now getting a bit tight on this
[16:47] <rickspencer3> but I guess we can only continue to sit tight
[16:48] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:48] <asac> Riddell: have the source now ...
[16:48] <rickspencer3> next is release status ... I'll turn the mic over to pitti in a moment
[16:48] <rickspencer3> first:
[16:48] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09/BugList
[16:48] <rickspencer3> this is High and Critical assigned bugs
[16:48] <asac> Riddell: lets talk offline after this meeting ;) (sorry i am out again)
[16:49] <rickspencer3> I noticed that our cron job query does not have all the data needed to see what is targeted for the release
[16:49] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to ask bdmurray about included targetedness of bugs in bug query
[16:49] <rickspencer3> but in general, I do not feel like we are as organized about identifying the right bugs to fix as we could be
[16:49] <rickspencer3> and of course, I have no solution to that :(

[16:50] <rickspencer3> ok, pitti go ahead
[16:50] <pitti> ok, so just starting with bugs then
[16:50] <pitti> as a refreshment for everyone, but also for our newcomers
[16:50] <pitti> in general, we track bugs that we really must/want to fix for lucid as targetted bugs against lucid with an appropriate priority
[16:51] <pitti> i. e. if you see a bug which falls into that category, please do "Target to release.." and select lucid, and a good priority
[16:51] <pitti> if prio is high/critical, it becomes a release blocker, and falls onto the release team's radar
[16:51] <pitti> everything below is "target of opportunity"
[16:52] <pitti> important:
[16:52] <pitti> - select an appropriate milestone
[16:52] <pitti> - assign the bug!
[16:52] <pitti> there's nothing more useless than a targetted unassigned bugs
[16:52] <pitti> either assign it to someone where you know it's appropriate
[16:52] <pitti> if in doubt assign it to canonical-desktop-team
[16:52] <pitti> I monitor those
[16:53] <rickspencer3> pitti, what should we do if someone assigns us a bug that doesn't seem quite right for us to fix?
[16:53] <pitti> to complement that, please ensure that you filter bug mail to treat assigned/subscribed bugs high
[16:53] <rickspencer3> like if someone assigned an xorg bug to kenvandine and an indicator bug to bryce?
[16:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: then please unassign with a comment, and possibly tag it ct-rev (if it comes from QA)
[16:54] <pitti> oh, then please just fix the assignee
[16:54] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:54] <pitti> but QA team (and others) just generally assign to c-d-t
[16:54] <rickspencer3> but if you don't think it's a really bug do that ^ ?
[16:54] <pitti> so if you do that as well, it falls into the very same workflow
[16:54] <rickspencer3> thanks
[16:54] <pitti> from my POV this has worked quite well for quite a while
[16:54] <rickspencer3> that = unassign, comment, ct-rev tag?
[16:54] <pitti> ^ right
[16:54] <pitti> ct-rev isn't widely used, I believe
[16:55] <rickspencer3> yeah
[16:55] <pitti> so that's really optional
[16:55] <rickspencer3> it never caught on, really
[16:55] <kenvandine> what is the ct-rev tag for?
[16:55] <pitti> it was meant to avoid having an unassigned bug pop up again on the QA radar
[16:55] <kenvandine> ah
[16:55] <kenvandine> ok
[16:55] <pitti> and getting it reassigned
[16:55] <pitti> "canonical team reviewed"
[16:56] <pitti> any questions about tracking bugs?
[16:56] <bryceh> heh, forgot about ct-rev
[16:56] <seb128> I feel we miss something there
[16:56] <seb128> but I'm not sure it counts as a question
[16:56] <pitti> seb128: go ahead
[16:57] <seb128> well this workflow is fine to track blockers or fires or qa spotted bugs
[16:57] <seb128> but I feel we have tons of very annoying bugs
[16:57] <seb128> and that we should have an overview of those too
[16:57] <pitti> target to lucid/assign/prio "low" or "medium" is for that
[16:57] <seb128> so people know what to work on when they are out of blockers
[16:57] <pitti> that's the "target of opportunity" category I mentioned
[16:57] <pitti> i. e. everything which isn't high/critical
[16:58] <seb128> I think we do a poor job at spotting what bugs ought to be fixed in those target of opportunity
[16:58] <seb128> and don't valuate enough how fixing some non blocker bugs can impact on the user experience
[16:58] <seb128> we have thousand of target of opportunity bugs
[16:59] <seb128> we have no concrete metric or overview or anything to work on that list in a organized maner
[16:59] <seb128> but that's just my feeling
[16:59] <seb128> end of comment
[16:59] <pitti> we have gravity now, and QA sending us quite a range of bugs
[16:59] <seb128> sorry for being verbose ;-)
[16:59] <seb128> that's great
[16:59] <pitti> and of course everyone is invited and required to help out with that in their particular area of expertise
[16:59] <rickspencer3> pitti, I think there was a suggestion in seb128's comment
[17:00] <seb128> I still think we don't do any organize work around those tools
[17:00] <rickspencer3> that we make some kind of goal setting
[17:00] <rickspencer3> like have a burn down chart, or some % of a bug list to target, etc...
[17:00] <seb128> I would like to see a chart counting like one hundred bugs we aim at fixing as time allow for lucid
[17:00] <seb128> and see how much progress we can do through those
[17:00] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 may I suggest that seb128 work on that?
[17:01] <pitti> well, if we target the bugs, then creating lists/charts/etc. is easy
[17:01] <rickspencer3> seems good practice for preparing for temporary tech lead role :)
[17:01] <seb128> ;-)
[17:01] <pitti> sounds great to me :)
[17:01] <rickspencer3> seb128, sound okay?
[17:01] <seb128> to me too!
[17:01] <pitti> but the primary needle eye seems to be finding the right bugs
[17:01] <seb128> yes
[17:01] <pitti> not tracking them, etc. (since that's well understood and working IMHO)
[17:01] <rickspencer3> ACTION: seb128 to generate a list of 100 "right" bugs to fix in Lucid
[17:02] <seb128> pitti, right, the important part is to build that list
[17:02] <pitti> ... with everyoen contributing to the list
[17:02] <seb128> I've to admit I feel personnaly lost in the middle of the target of opportunity bugs
[17:02] <rickspencer3> well, I would like to see some kind of criteria that builds that list
[17:02] <seb128> and I'm not convinced the one I work one are the one I should be spending time on
[17:02] <rickspencer3> but, I'll leave it to seb128
[17:02] <seb128> one*s*
[17:03] <rickspencer3> pitti, wrt release status ...
[17:03] <pitti> seb128: do you think gravity/hotness is a good part of that metric?
[17:03] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes, I've got plenty to say still
[17:03] <rickspencer3> good
[17:03] <rickspencer3> ga
[17:03] <pitti> ok, so action for everyone, please target the bugs you think ought to be fixed
[17:03] <pitti> then let's see next week what we have
[17:04] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
[17:04] <seb128> pitti, yes
[17:04] <pitti> as you can see, we are a "tad" above the trend line
[17:04] <pitti> we basically have until Thursday to get beta-1 stuff in
[17:04] <pitti> I just closed two default-apps WIs, which are done
[17:04] <rickspencer3> uh
[17:04] <pitti> for us, the remaining thing there is to discuss the fate of pitivi
[17:05] <pitti> (I'll discuss the other specs later on)
[17:05] <rickspencer3> pitti, discuss that now?
[17:05] <pitti> rickspencer3: you think we shouldn't?
[17:05] <rickspencer3> no, I think we should
[17:05] <pitti> I actually spent some two hours on pitivi on teh weekend to create some .avis from my parent's video cam
[17:06] <pitti> it's crash-o-rama, and didn't import half of the clips, but at least I got the (admittedly very simple) task done
[17:06] <rickspencer3> realy?
[17:06] <rickspencer3> that surprises me, as I have not add issues like that
[17:06] <pitti> team opinions for yay/nay?
[17:07] <pitti> let's do a quick poll
[17:07] <rickspencer3> I was firmly yay until pitti's crash-o-rama comment
[17:07] <rickspencer3> hi bilboed-tp and komputes
[17:07] <rickspencer3> all - these guys are pitivi upstream
[17:07] <SEJeff_work> Has the latest gnonlin landed in lucid yet?
[17:07] <pitti> well, apparenlty only some thread crashes all the time
[17:07] <rickspencer3> and they are awesome and easy to work with
[17:07] <seb128> pitti, 0.13.4 due tomorrow
[17:07] <seb128> we will get the updates today with the pre-version
[17:07] <bilboed-tp> what seb128 said
[17:07] <nekohayo> rickspencer3, I've seen tons of crash bugs on launchpad that are on 0.13.3 and seem to be linked to the HAL thing
[17:07] <bilboed-tp> pushing out a pre-release right now
[17:08] <seb128> what we have now is outdated we can't really judge on those
[17:08] <komputes> hi rickspencer3
[17:08] <rickspencer3> funny
[17:08] <seb128> bilboed-tp, thanks for the good work btw ;-)
[17:08] <pitti> rickspencer3: imports> yes, it refuses to import any clip which takes longer than 10s to index or so
[17:08] <komputes> hi bilboed-tp, will be testing the new pitivi this week
[17:08] <rickspencer3> it has been working well for me, and works with gtk-record-my-desktop, etc...
[17:08] <komputes> (in lucid)
[17:08] <nekohayo> and just look at this: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&target_milestone=0.13.4&product=pitivi
[17:08] <pitti> looking forward to testing 0.13.4 then!
[17:08] <didrocks> so, making some video mounting test on the following days? once getting the new version?
[17:08] <nekohayo> (my point is: huge amount of bugs fixed since 0.13.3)
[17:08] <seb128> yes
[17:09] <bilboed-tp> gimme 5mins and the 0.13.3.2 pre-release tarballs will be out
[17:09] <pitti> the import bug was easy enough to work around, too (update timeout to 600 s)
[17:09] <rickspencer3> pitti, may I suggest that everyone makes a video or two this week, and discuss again next week?
[17:09] <kenvandine> i can
[17:09] <pitti> so, my proposal was to keep it in beta-1, and go with it barring major catastrophes
[17:09]  * kenvandine has some video of the kids needing editing :)
[17:09] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok
[17:09] <nekohayo> pitti, the import bug is fixed in 0.13.4
[17:09] <pitti> nekohayo: sweet
[17:09] <seb128> pitti, +1
[17:09] <nekohayo> with recent gstreamer packages
[17:09] <nekohayo> afaik.
[17:09] <twi_> yup
[17:09] <seb128> we have uptodate gstreamer
[17:09] <seb128> or will be soon
[17:10] <rickspencer3> the pitivi team is lucky that we work from home, or I would be hugging them all right now
[17:10] <twi_> and gnonlin, a new release was pushed today
[17:10]  * bilboed-tp scratches head
[17:10] <nekohayo> hahaha
[17:10]  * komputes chuckles
[17:10] <pitti> rickspencer3: sure, more testing is always good :) WDYT about the proposal?
[17:10]  * pitti assumes "yes"
[17:10] <kenvandine> yes
[17:10]  * bilboed-tp makes pre-release depend on latest gst-plugins-good just to be sure
[17:10] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes
[17:10] <seb128> bilboed-tp, we have .21
[17:10] <seb128> should be ok ;-)
[17:10] <pitti> ok, great
[17:11] <pitti> before beta-1, review  status of pitivi and decide about its fate (keep): DONE
[17:11] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti :)
[17:11] <bilboed-tp> seb128, yes
[17:11] <pitti> so, that leaves some f-spot editing UI review for djsiegel, which sohuld be fine
[17:11]  * rickspencer3 refrains from bringing up 7 TODO work items for gdm setup that are still on the burndown chart
[17:11] <rickspencer3> pitti, more for release status?
[17:11] <bilboed-tp> seb128, if you have all releases from the past 3 days, then it's all good. you just need to make sure gnonlin 0.10.15 from a couple of hours ago goes in
[17:11] <djsiegel> pitti: say what?
[17:11] <pitti> djsiegel: your two WIs in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-default-apps
[17:12] <seb128> bilboed-tp, no worry I've that under control
[17:12] <pitti> so, next thing
[17:12] <bilboed-tp> seb128, thx
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-services-settings-window
[17:12] <djsiegel> pitti, ok
[17:12] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you have time/motivation/etc. to check this this week?
[17:12] <seb128> bilboed-tp, np, thank you for the work you are doing ;-)
[17:12] <pitti> or should we cut it?
[17:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think i'll have the time to look at that this week. the rest of my week is going to be taken up by xulrunner 1.9.2 transition now
[17:12] <pitti> seb128: same question about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdmsetup
[17:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, let's cut it then
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[17:13] <seb128> pitti, :-(
[17:14] <rickspencer3> :(
[17:14] <rickspencer3> this is a very unfortunate cut
[17:14] <rickspencer3> but we have to do what we have to do
[17:14] <pitti> really?
[17:14] <pitti> services-admin is somethign to shoot yourself into the foot IMHO
[17:14] <pitti> seb128: well, if you really want to get it back, I'll work on it tomorrow
[17:14] <rickspencer3> pitti, right, if it's not all tweaked and tested by now, better to drop it
[17:15] <komputes> pitti: are you suggesting dropping the development of a new gdmsetup in lucid? :(
[17:15] <didrocks> I think the "prevent autologin for user using encryption for their home" is needed and can be quick to do.
[17:15] <seb128> pitti, my ":-(" was for gdmsetup, I hate not having a way to turn off login sound
[17:15] <rickspencer3> for gdm setup, I think we would be better served helping the gdm setup community project get into universe
[17:15] <pitti> ah
[17:15] <seb128> pitti, it's a show blocker for users in public places
[17:15] <seb128> like students who go to the library
[17:15] <pitti> the "cut" so far was for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-services-settings-window
[17:15] <komputes> seb128: or offices
[17:15] <pitti> seb128: yes, I agree
[17:15] <rickspencer3> yes
[17:16] <seb128> I can't believe we will get a lts without a way to make your computer silent
[17:16] <seb128> it seems such a trivial requirement for lot of people
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: so, do you want to work on it this week, and I take some of your gnome updates/other work? or want me to work on gdmsetup?
[17:16] <seb128> but *shrug*
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'd like to be able to disable the login sound with a baby in the room next door
[17:16]  * ArneGoetje has a "Mute" key combination on his laptop for this.
[17:16] <chrisccoulson> :)
[17:16] <seb128> pitti, I will look at it tomorrow and keep you updated
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: I'm not at all attached to services-admin, but I am to gdmsetup..
[17:16] <seb128> same here
[17:16] <pitti> seb128: merci; please let me know if I can help out with updates, etc.
[17:16] <seb128> I don't care about services-admin, I don't think normal users know or care about those
[17:16] <pitti> kenvandine: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-social-from-the-start
[17:16] <rickspencer3> seb128, what's the status of hte GM setup tool that community created?
[17:17]  * kenvandine prefers normal users not have it
[17:17] <seb128> pitti, we are done with updates but thanks
[17:17] <rickspencer3> pitti, hold on, I'm not quite done with gdm setup, I think I am not in agreement with seb128
[17:17] <kenvandine> pitti, just the exception stuff i want, and i should be able to start working on it tonight
[17:17] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's an hackish pygtk tool running undo sudo and calling gconftool commands
[17:17] <pitti> kenvandine: ok, so let's keep it on the list then
[17:17] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:17] <seb128> rickspencer3, out of disliking the design it probably does the job
[17:17] <kenvandine> pitti, it is important
[17:17] <rickspencer3> so it's not suitable for universe to fulfill the use-cases you bring up
[17:17] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:17] <komputes> pitti, well the way to disable a service/job (upstart) atm is renaming a file, correct? We truely do need a graphical way of doing this which is non-destructive...
[17:17] <pitti> kenvandine: right, but time is running out; beta freeze is in two days..
[17:18] <kenvandine> i know... i know
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's fine for universe I guess
[17:18] <kenvandine> pitti, i'll do my best :)
[17:18] <pitti> komputes: you really oughn't to disable most upstart jobs
[17:18] <rickspencer3> does it fulfill the use cases?
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, still having to find it to be able to have a quiet computer is a slap in the face for users
[17:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, supposed they ever find it in the middle of 18000 binaries yes
[17:18] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'd rather add two more buttons to our gdmsetup (which we know to work) than switching to an entirely different tool
[17:18] <rickspencer3> seb128, have you added the mute feature to gdm setup now?
[17:19] <seb128> pitti, he doesn't suggest switching I think, just to have a tool in universe which does that
[17:19] <seb128> rickspencer3, no
[17:19] <seb128> rickspencer3, which is why I ":-(" before
[17:19] <pitti> seb128: hm, but nobody will find that, or have it when needed..
[17:19] <rickspencer3> right
[17:19] <komputes> pitti: examples of daemons users want to disable simply include openssh-server, proftpd, apache etc, I understand and agree most system services don't need to be touched by users
[17:19] <rickspencer3> hold on, one thing at a time
[17:19] <pitti> komputes: right, those aren't upstartified yet
[17:20] <rickspencer3> komputes, the start up services UI is out of scope now
[17:20] <bilboed-tp> seb128, 0.13.3.2 pre-release tarball available here : http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/pitivi/0.13/
[17:20] <seb128> bilboed-tp, thanks
[17:20] <komputes> pitti: right, but we expect users to know the diff between an upstart job and a a script run through SysV scripts
[17:20] <rickspencer3> I don't see how we can have a hope of delivering something that doesn't cause way more problems than it solves
[17:20] <komputes> rickspencer3: that's too bad :(
[17:20] <rickspencer3> komputes, I agree
[17:20] <pitti> djsiegel: please add your review comments to the bottom of the whiteboard (not into the work item); just set the WI to "done" after review
[17:21] <rickspencer3> but delivering on time and with quality is an important feature
[17:21] <rickspencer3> let us back up and making a running start at this in Lucid + 1
[17:21] <rickspencer3> for gdm setup, I propose that seb128 discuss off line and see if we can negotiate a way forward
[17:21] <seb128> ok
[17:21] <rickspencer3> I feel that any work we do now is throwing good money after bad
[17:22] <didrocks> still, we allow people to choose a user for autologin even if they have an encrypted partition. Once you've done that, you're screwed, the only solution is to reboot in recovery mode and change the custom.conf file with a CLI editor…
[17:22] <rickspencer3> pitti, are you agreeable about delegating gdm setup discussion to seb128 and I?
[17:22] <pitti> rickspencer3: sure, that's fine
[17:22] <pitti> I just wanted to point out that time is running out :/
[17:22] <rickspencer3> didrocks, that sounds like a bug
[17:22] <pitti> then, the remaining big thing is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-dx-integration
[17:22]  * rickspencer3 considers time to have already run out ;)
[17:22] <rickspencer3> pitti, kenvandine had to step away
[17:23] <pitti> I think some WIs are actually done
[17:23] <pitti> boot: get the plymounth plugins in?: TODO
[17:23] <pitti> like that
[17:23] <rickspencer3> these work items to be seem to reflect that he has done some good planning
[17:23] <pitti> application indicator: other apps in best community effort: TODO
[17:23] <pitti> and that's a pretty pointless WI anyway
[17:23] <pitti> so I think there's some noise here
[17:24] <pitti> so I think it's much fewer WIs for beta-1 than it seems at first sight
[17:24] <rickspencer3> pitti, would you like to work with kenvandine to clean up that noise?
[17:24] <pitti> I'll discuss with Ken when he comes back, and try to clean up a little
[17:24] <pitti> snap :)
[17:24] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:24] <seb128> "theming: the design team will have theme tweaking or a new theme to get in lucid: TODO"
[17:24] <seb128> is probably a DONE too
[17:24] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:25] <rickspencer3> yeah, probably :)
[17:25] <pitti> </release status>
[17:25] <rickspencer3> pitti, thanks for driving us in such an organized manner
[17:25] <pitti> rickspencer3: mike back to you
[17:25] <jcastro> pitti: you can done "other apps in best community effort", we got like 3 good ones out of it
[17:25] <rickspencer3> and also for tolerating my clockwork-like predictability in freaking about about finishing out the release
[17:26] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:26] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:26] <pitti> rickspencer3: which is not totally unjustified -- time is running out for bug fixing as wel..
[17:26] <rickspencer3> let's finish out real quick with a reminder ...
[17:26] <rickspencer3> Guadec is coming up!
[17:26] <rickspencer3> the organizes asked me to remind everyone that papers are due in 11 days
[17:26] <rickspencer3> and to encourage everyone to submit if they want to
[17:27] <rickspencer3> also, I put the mailing list on the wiki
[17:27] <rickspencer3> if you want to, you can subscribe to that mailing list and look for opportunities to help
[17:27] <rickspencer3> if you are wondering if you should go to guedec, submit a paper, etc...
[17:28] <rickspencer3> please get me offline and we can discuss, but the answer if probably "yes" if you are at all intersted :)
[17:28] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:28] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:28] <seb128> no
[17:29] <rickspencer3> great
[17:29] <rickspencer3> that's a warp
[17:29] <rickspencer3> a wrap too
[17:29] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:29]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[17:30] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:30] <rickspencer3> komputes, so .. now that the meeting is over ...
[17:31] <didrocks> thanks everyone
[17:31] <komputes> rickspencer3: yessir
[17:31] <rickspencer3> so, the services configurator thing
[17:31] <rickspencer3> I get the sense that you are passionate about this
[17:32] <rickspencer3> so I'm a bit bummed that I feel I need to take a hard line against more development in Lucid in taht area
[17:32] <komputes> rickspencer3: we do what we can, right?
[17:32] <komputes> I understand that, it just bothers me that these won't make it into Lucid
[17:32] <rickspencer3> komputes, would you like to take a leadership role in this area for Lucid + 1?
[17:33] <chrisccoulson> realistically, is it worth investing any significant efforts in the gnome-system-tools / system-tools-backends stack?
[17:33] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, well, that's the means
[17:34] <komputes> rickspencer3: Not a developer, so not particularly. I don't think I would be the best person suited to do that.
[17:34] <rickspencer3> the end is "can users tweak the services running on their 'puters in a graphical way"
[17:34] <rickspencer3> komputes, ok
[17:34] <rickspencer3> well, feel free to start a blueprint or comment on one if it is created
[17:34] <chrisccoulson> or "do users need to tweak the services running on their 'puters in a graphical way"?
[17:35] <komputes> rickspencer3: I'm subscribed
[17:35] <chrisccoulson> i thought not, but i got some stick when i initially disabled services-admin
[17:35] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, that's a good question
[17:35] <rickspencer3> good discussion for UDS ;)
[17:35] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think so
[17:35] <komputes> rickspencer3: we should def. bring it up at UDS
[17:35] <chrisccoulson> i don't see much point in the tool really, but it seems a lot of people disagree with me there ;)
[17:36] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, right, so we should give everyone a chance to express their opinions, and then make a good group deciscion
[17:37] <rickspencer3> basically, UDS is made exactly for this kind of thing :)
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> yeah, agreed
[17:38] <komputes> rickspencer3: I was going to ask (and maybe seb128 knows something about this) We spoke about disabling startup/shutdown sounds, but whats the status/direction of Sound Preferences, Sound themes, and Custom sound effects.
[17:38] <rickspencer3> komputes, startup and shutdown sounds will be enabled by default
[17:38] <rickspencer3> the current debate is about how to allow users to disable them
[17:39] <rickspencer3> seb128 wants to add functionality to gdm setup
[17:39] <rickspencer3> I think it's too late to do that work
[17:39] <komputes> rickspencer3: that's fine, my question was concerning  Sound themes, and Custom sound effects
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> are we talking about the gdm startup sound, or the login sound
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> ?
[17:39] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, tbh, I don't know
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> it's already possible to disable the latter in gnome-volume-control
[17:39] <rickspencer3> komputes, I don;
[17:39] <komputes> chrisccoulson: I think they were talking about the GDM drums sound in the meeting
[17:39] <rickspencer3> t know abotu that either
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[17:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, whatever makes sound on boot you can't stop
[17:40] <seb128> I think you can deal with the desktop sound from the gnome-media capplet
[17:40] <seb128> or mute those there at least
[17:40] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that works (i disable the login sound already)
[17:40] <seb128> we just don't have an UI to make gdm silent
[17:40] <seb128> which is a fail
[17:41] <komputes> rickspencer3, seb128: The reason I bring it up is because the gnome-volume-control is a mess IMO
[17:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm not sure if you opposed to turned that off by default btw?
[17:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, or you were speaking about the session sounds?
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i suppose the sticking point for the GDM one is that the configuration is stored in gconf for the GDM user?
[17:41] <seb128> komputes, you are welcome to talk to the design team about redesign it
[17:41] <seb128> redesigning
[17:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes
[17:41] <komputes> seb128: any oparticular individual(s)
[17:42] <seb128> no
[17:42] <seb128> but saying that the current one is not good doesn't bring us forward
[17:42] <seb128> we need suggestions and a design of something better
[17:42] <komputes> seb128: oh I do have a list of improvements, btw
[17:43] <komputes> I'm not just sating it's bad and that's it... :)
[17:43] <seb128> too late for lucid but I'm happy to consider those for next cycle
[17:43] <komputes> okidok
[17:43] <seb128> can you build a list and send it to me by email or something?
[17:43] <komputes> seb128: will do that now
[17:43] <seb128> or register a spec about adressing those
[17:43] <seb128> thanks
[17:43] <komputes> seb128: ok
[17:50] <rickspencer3> djsiegel, thanks for updating the f-spot work items
[17:50] <rickspencer3> if you have specific comments, feel free to add them outside the work item area
[17:51] <kwwii> seb128: did you see the ubuntu-mono icon update info (from #dx a while ago?)
[17:52] <seb128> kwwii, no sorry, being busy with phone calls and meeting for some hours
[17:52] <seb128> kwwii, I probably overlooked it, looking now, thanks
[17:52] <kwwii> seb128: right, I assumed so - you are a very busy man ;-)
[17:52] <seb128> kwwii, we all are ;-)
[17:52] <seb128> kwwii, on it now
[17:52] <kwwii> indeed ;-)
[17:53] <kwwii> seb128: excellent thanks!
[17:53] <seb128> np
[17:53] <seb128> thank you fixing all those bugs, you are the other rocking art team people who send patches too ;-)
[17:53] <kwwii> I am going to sneak off and get take-away chinese for dinner, bbiab
[17:53] <seb128> kwwii, have fun
[17:53] <kwwii> seb128: I think we still have a *lot* of bugs to fix ;)
[17:54] <seb128> indeed
[17:54] <kwwii> sladen sent an email to the design list today asking why there are 68 open bugs about the themes
[17:54] <seb128> but still good to see a first round of bugs closed ;-)
[17:54] <kwwii> yepp
[17:54] <seb128> lol
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> who broke g-s-d? ;)
[18:07] <Laney> is that what's broken loads of stuff in my session today?
[18:07] <Laney> Displays, gtk theme, sounds, ...
[18:07] <chrisccoulson> i've just seen 2 new crash reports in my inbox, since the update
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> Laney - yes, g-s-d crashing will do that
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> i haven't upgraded yet though
[18:08] <Laney> ah, fun fun
[18:08] <Laney> nautilus: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0.
[18:09] <Laney> x lots
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, g-s-d doesn't crash here
[18:09] <Laney> in .xsession-errors
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> Laney, those messages suggest Xorg crashes
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> s/crashes/crashed
[18:09] <Laney> I restarted it and nothing doing
[18:09] <Laney> it didn't visibly crash
[18:10] <Laney> shall I just start g-s-d?
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> Laney, please try that
[18:10] <Laney> oh, it's already running
[18:10] <chrisccoulson> ah, so that's not your issue then
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> i guess i'll just have to wait for the retracer on the new crash reports
[18:11] <Keybuk> seb128: I'm going to have to uninstall gnome-screensaver!  I need to *work* on my machine!
[18:11] <Keybuk> </plymouth related humour> :p
[18:11] <Laney> I wonder what's going on here then
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk, that issue should be fixed already
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> (the lock dialog hanging)
[18:11] <chrisccoulson> i assume that's what you're referring to?
[18:12] <seb128> Keybuk, the gnome-keyring issue?
[18:12] <seb128> Keybuk, has been fixed yesterday morning european time
[18:12] <Keybuk> lies
[18:12] <Keybuk> it just happened to me
[18:12] <Keybuk> right now
[18:12] <seb128> you maybe didn't restart your session since?
[18:12] <Keybuk> on a machine I installed TEN MINUTES AGO
[18:12] <seb128> urh
[18:12] <seb128> what gnome-keyring package version?
[18:12] <seb128> what iso did you use to install?
[18:12] <Keybuk> (just checking it didn't get installed from an older image)
[18:13] <seb128> there at least 6 users who confirmed the fix to work on the bug
[18:13] <Laney> oh, gsd wasn't configured
[18:13] <seb128> so if you have still an issue open a new bug
[18:13] <seb128> Laney, ?
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> Laney- ?
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[18:13] <Keybuk> ah, there wasn't an iso this morning
[18:13] <Laney> I've a locking bug
[18:13] <Laney> and I guess it happened in the middle of my dist-upgrade
[18:13] <Laney> should really trace that one
[18:14] <Keybuk> seb128: there is, indeed, an update available to that package
[18:14] <Keybuk> la la la
[18:14] <Keybuk> I shut up now :p
[18:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, btw bug #535206
[18:14] <seb128> Keybuk, ;-)
[18:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I get that crash at every autologin since today
[18:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, have you seen that before?
[18:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i just noticed the 2 new bug reports
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> i haven't recreated yet though, but i haven't updated everything
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> just doing that now
[18:15] <Laney> no crash here
[18:15] <seb128> Laney, using autologin?
[18:15] <Laney> no
[18:15] <seb128> it doesn't crash on normal login
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> oh, that's weird
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> that's why i couldn't recreate it then
[18:15] <Laney> alright, that's useful info then
[18:15] <seb128> as a workaround and log out and back in
[18:16] <seb128> otherwise I've no alt keys working due to g-s-d crashing
[18:17] <Keybuk> as a workaround, suspend then resume
[18:17] <Keybuk> X will crash anyway, so you'll have a new session ;)
[18:17] <Keybuk> *or* just leave plymouth installed
[18:18] <Keybuk> then X will crash the first time you press ENTER :p
[18:18] <chrisccoulson> lol. seems like we are coming up with lots of new ways to crash X
[18:18] <Keybuk> which is deeply ironic, since there's less of X to crash
[18:22] <bryceh> Keybuk, it's the same amount, just that half's in the kernel now
[18:22] <bryceh> which makes crashes even more fun than before
[18:33] <chrisccoulson> brb, restarting
[18:35] <Sarvatt> stty -F /dev/tty7 -isig fixes it here :)
[18:38] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - no gsd crash for me :-/
[18:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, with autologin?
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i tried with auto login
[18:39] <seb128> ok, weird
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> my panel applets were rearranged though ;)
[18:39] <seb128> it might be fixed with the g-s-d update
[18:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you are running the gnome-panel update which should fix that bug?
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> yeah, but i wonder if my config was already messed up from before the upgrade
[18:41] <seb128> let's see if you get the issue again
[18:42] <seb128> I will try to reboot soon for g-s-d
[18:47] <seb128> kenvandine, there is a new empathy, can you do the update for lucid?
[18:47] <kenvandine> oh there is? sure
[18:48] <kenvandine> i didn't get an email...
[18:48] <kenvandine> i see it
[18:48] <kenvandine> cool
[18:48] <kenvandine> will do
[18:48] <seb128> kenvandine, thank you
[18:49] <kenvandine> np
[18:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #460144
[18:59] <seb128> or rather bug 530041
[19:00] <seb128> ups that one is a duplicate
[19:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - want me to take a look at that one?
[19:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you think you could review MacSlow's change for that issue and get it in lucid?
[19:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry I was jungling with things and I think I deleted that email
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> yeah, can do
[19:01] <seb128> kenvandine, do you still have it?
[19:01] <seb128> kenvandine, was the change in the email or did mirco give a bug number?
[19:01] <kenvandine> one sec
[19:01] <seb128> kenvandine, can you bounce the email to chrisccoulson and me too?
[19:02] <kenvandine> sure
[19:02] <kenvandine> sending
[19:03] <seb128> thanks
[19:03] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks too ;-)
[19:04] <kenvandine> ok, i bounced it to both of you
[19:04] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[19:06] <seb128> bratsche, bug #535238
[19:07] <seb128> bratsche, is that something which you think makes sense?
[19:10] <seb128> diner time, bbl
[19:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh btw just thinking about it
[19:19] <seb128> I do boot the laptop docked with lid closed
[19:19] <seb128> that might have to do with the g-s-d crash
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - ah, i can try it like that too
[19:20] <seb128> I don't think I get it in undocked scenario
[19:20] <seb128> I was just thinking about it whiling eating
[19:20]  * seb128 goes back to dinner ;-)
[19:23] <kenvandine> hehe... dinner is good for debug thinking :)
[19:55] <bratsche> seb128: I'm not sure.  We can't emulate all the features of the titlebar.. like, we're not going to be able to popup the right-click menu.
[19:55] <bratsche> seb128: So let me think about this one.
[19:56] <seb128> bratsche, I'm happy to close it, I think we should not waste efforts on it we are other issues to fix for lucid
[19:56] <seb128> like real bugs
[19:56] <seb128> ;-)
[19:56] <bratsche> seb128: Yeah, I feel the same way. :)
[19:56] <seb128> ok, good, will close the bug
[19:56] <seb128> thanks
[20:26] <seb128> re
[20:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you look at the g-s-d crash yet? if you didn't no need to bother I will look at it now
[20:28] <seb128> vuntz, did you get echos about a crasher in your gnome-panel update when using the menus to start softwares?
[20:58] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've not had a chance to look yet
[20:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I've found it I think
[20:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it crashes on any resolution change
[21:00] <seb128> just using the xrandr capplet is enough to make g-s-d crash
[21:00] <seb128> I'm about to try a fix
[21:00] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's strange. i can change resolutions here
[21:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have several keymaps configured?
[21:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's crashing in libgnomekbd
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> no, only 1
[21:01] <seb128> I think it's the keyboard layout indicator
[21:06] <czajkowski> evening
[21:09] <seb128> hi czajkowski
[21:11] <czajkowski> seb128: ello
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - what theme are you using?
[21:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, radiance
[21:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, shouldn't make a difference
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> oh, i just made it crash switching through the themes now
[21:17] <didrocks> time to go to bed
[21:17] <didrocks> seb128: I'll get back on update track tomorrow morning
[21:17] <chrisccoulson> 'night didrocks
[21:17] <didrocks> thanks, you too chrisccoulson ;)
[21:18] <didrocks> good luck with g-s-d!
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> right, brb, moving to the lounge for the rest of the evening
[21:19] <seb128> didrocks, 'night
[21:30] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[21:30] <seb128> hey TheMuso
[21:32] <RAOF> Good morning.
[21:33] <seb128> hey RAOF
[21:33] <RAOF> Good evening seb128 :)
[21:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, wb
[21:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612341
[21:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, got the crash fixed upstream and in lucid now
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - excellent, thanks
[21:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - my panel applets are rearranging more than ever now :-/
[21:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, :-(
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> the indicator and notification area keep swapping on every reboot now
[21:56] <seb128> annoying bug
[21:56] <seb128> does anybody get the crash when using menus issue?
[22:04] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can recreate that now
[22:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh nice
[22:04] <chrisccoulson> only with the main menu rather than the menu bar
[22:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson, where do it crash?
[22:04] <seb128> oh, get it too
[22:04] <chrisccoulson> one second, i'll try and trigger it again with some debug symbols
[22:04] <seb128> vuntz, ^
[22:05] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, bryceh, RAOF (no robert_ancell *sniff*)
[22:05] <chrisccoulson> Riddell - still there? would you mind processing xulrunner binaries through NEW?
[22:05] <rickspencer3> Easter edition?
[22:05] <chrisccoulson> please :)
[22:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I can do that
[22:05] <rickspencer3> Eastern edition, even
[22:05] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - awesome :)
[22:05] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Sure.
[22:05] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Sure.
[22:06] <RAOF> We can have an Easter edition, too, if you'd like.  I'm always up for some chocolate!
[22:06] <rickspencer3> I think bryce wanted to start joining Eastern Edition to synch up with RAOF
[22:06] <rickspencer3> but not sure he remembered that ;)
[22:06] <rickspencer3> in fact, I see he was at the Euro Edition
[22:06] <rickspencer3> so never mind
[22:06] <rickspencer3> anyway
[22:06] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09
[22:07] <rickspencer3> I updated the wiki with the irc log and some notes for each section
[22:07] <bryceh> hi
[22:07] <rickspencer3> hi bryceh, sorry to distrub you
[22:07] <bryceh> I'm here, just thought the meetings were at 3pm pacific not 2
[22:08]  * bryceh fixifies
[22:08] <rickspencer3> okee dokee
[22:08] <rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell
[22:09] <Riddell> chrisccoulson: I take it xulrunner doesn't breach feature freeze?
[22:09] <rickspencer3> we started the Eastern Edition, if you would like to join us
[22:09]  * robert_ancell gets caught in the spotlight trying to slip into the back row silently
[22:09] <rickspencer3> hehe
[22:09] <chrisccoulson> Riddell - not sure about that. it's part of the ongoing work to handle the new firefox support model...
[22:09] <RAOF> Riddell: Xulrunner?  Are we getting another update?  Is this going to change the xulrunner nano version?
[22:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, vuntz get the crash too so maybe don't hurry trying to debug it or you will dup work ;-)
[22:10] <Riddell> RAOF: I've no idea.  I don't even really understand what xulrunner is.
[22:10] <rickspencer3>  xulrunner is a project that asac made up to pad his activity reports
[22:10] <chrisccoulson> heh
[22:11] <rickspencer3> it is not a framework for running xul apps
[22:11] <RAOF> Nor is it a javascript library, nor an embeddable web browser widget.
[22:12] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:12] <RAOF> The fact that people have tried to *make* it these things is one reason why webkit is cheered :)
[22:12] <rickspencer3> RAOF, TheMuso did you get a chance to read over the wiki?
[22:12] <chrisccoulson> lol
[22:12] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: yes
[22:12] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:12] <RAOF> Um, are the IRC logs duplicated?
[22:12] <rickspencer3> duplicated?
[22:12] <rickspencer3> did I paste them in twice?
[22:13] <RAOF> Hm. maybe not.  I just got half way down and it seemed to start again!
[22:13] <rickspencer3> uh
[22:13] <rickspencer3> very weird
[22:13] <rickspencer3> I guess the wiki mangled it
[22:13] <rickspencer3> in any case
[22:14] <rickspencer3> let's run through the agenda real quick and get an audio update from TheMuso
[22:14] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Nothing to report this week, other than massive bug trawls.
[22:14] <rickspencer3> and then mention Lucid + 1 xorg maintenance real quick (wherein RAOF covers for bryceh)
[22:14] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, ok, that comes up a bit in the adenda
[22:14] <rickspencer3> so let's rock
[22:15] <rickspencer3> first was following up in the xcursor from last week
[22:15] <rickspencer3> so pitti made good progress
[22:15] <rickspencer3> there is no spinning xcursor
[22:15] <rickspencer3> however, there is a cursor so you can click on the GDM greeter
[22:15] <rickspencer3> and this is visible while the desktop loads
[22:16] <rickspencer3> I don't know if the requirements is met, so I will try to find out tomorrow
[22:16] <rickspencer3> so thanks to pitti for that
[22:16] <rickspencer3> for Partner update
[22:16] <rickspencer3> nice to have the user defined folders
[22:16] <rickspencer3> so now you can sync folders through U1 by picking any folder in Nautilus
[22:16] <rickspencer3> this works for sharing too I assume
[22:17] <rickspencer3> so nice they delivered that
[22:17] <rickspencer3> in terms of the U1 control panel, they scoped back the work and delivered more or less the final control panel
[22:17] <rickspencer3> music store is coming along
[22:17] <rickspencer3> I guess they will leave private beta in a matter of days
[22:17] <rickspencer3> for Dx, they are in bug fix and tweak mode
[22:17] <rickspencer3> so not expecting any significant changes from them
[22:18] <rickspencer3> any questions about partner update?
[22:18] <TheMuso> no
[22:18] <RAOF> Are we going to try to get directhex's U1MS plugin for Banshee in for lucid?
[22:18] <rickspencer3> RAOF, I suspect that is bound for universe or something
[22:19] <rickspencer3> but I haven't been tracking that specifically, so don't exactly know
[22:19] <rickspencer3> kenvandine would be a good person to ask
[22:19] <rickspencer3> ok, you can read the Kubuntu update, not sure I have any context to add there
[22:19] <rickspencer3> Riddell and Kubuntu team are doing a great job as usual
[22:19] <rickspencer3> so, release status
[22:19] <rickspencer3> here's a biggy
[22:20] <rickspencer3> I kicked off this session with my usual song and dance that I don't have a good feel for the problem areas, what bugs are important, etc...
[22:20] <rickspencer3> so then pitti described how to get a bug on the release team radar:
[22:20] <rickspencer3> 1. target it to a release
[22:20] <rickspencer3> 2. set it to High or Critical
[22:21] <rickspencer3> 3. *assign* it to someone
[22:21] <rickspencer3> RAOF, have you been introduced to our bug tracking processes by pitti yet?
[22:21] <rickspencer3> (how we manage bugs in the end game?)
[22:21] <RAOF> Not formally, no.  We've done the work-items bit, but not bug tracking.
[22:21] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:22] <rickspencer3> RAOF, may I ask you to follow up with pitti to get the scoopage directly from him the next time you overlap?
[22:22] <RAOF> Ok.
[22:22] <rickspencer3> great
[22:22] <rickspencer3> but it's pretty much what I said
[22:22] <rickspencer3> so assign a bug to canonical-desktop-team and pitti or I will assign to an engineer
[22:23] <rickspencer3> if you get a bug assigned to you that you don't you are the right person to fix it ...
[22:23] <rickspencer3> assign it back to c-d-t
[22:23] <rickspencer3> seb128 then brought up "what bugs to fix"?
[22:23] <rickspencer3> especially non-release blocking bugs
[22:23] <rickspencer3> so he volunteered to make a list of 100 bugs really worth getting fixed
[22:23] <rickspencer3> and then we can drive that list to zero
[22:23] <TheMuso> right
[22:24] <RAOF> Sounds good.
[22:24] <rickspencer3> this is not something we have had in the past
[22:24] <rickspencer3> I think he means this in addition to the release critical bugs
[22:24] <bryceh> RAOF, btw for X, in addition to those keep an eye on bugs tagged 'lucid'
[22:25] <RAOF> bryceh: Right.  Those are the ones that have been confirmed to apply to lucid, right?
[22:25] <bryceh> RAOF, lot of times people don't nominate X bugs except for the stable distro so that gives us a way to bubble up ones that may be relevant for us for the development release
[22:25] <bryceh> RAOF, righto.  It should be a superset of "bugs we care about" so be aggressive at pruning them
[22:26] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:26] <rickspencer3> so moving on to blueprints
[22:26] <rickspencer3> we officially punted the service settings window
[22:27] <rickspencer3> but there was some discussion about GDM options
[22:27]  * rickspencer3 looks at robert_ancell
[22:27] <rickspencer3> basically, I feel that it's too late to do work here, and rather we should we should take the GDM setting app developed in the community and get that into universe
[22:27] <rickspencer3> but some people think ...
[22:27]  * rickspencer3 looks at seb128
[22:28] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, agreed
[22:28] <rickspencer3> that it's important to have the ability to mute start up sounds so you can use your 'puter in public without disturbing others
[22:28] <RAOF> I agree; that's important.
[22:29] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I am inclined to let seb128 pick off these sound ones he cares about, so long as we also get the other tool into universe
[22:29] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, thoughts?
[22:29]  * seb128 reads log
[22:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, I would argue we should turn the gdm sound off by default
[22:30] <rickspencer3> seb128, no
[22:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, I think you do care about session sounds
[22:30] <rickspencer3> as I saidL
[22:30] <seb128> login and logout
[22:30] <RAOF> What you *really* want, rather than an option to make the *next* boot silent is some way to make *this* boot silent.
[22:30] <seb128> not the gdm beep
[22:30] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes, the universe proposal appears t to have stalled, I'll chase up with the dev
[22:30] <rickspencer3> 1. this totally screws bling peole
[22:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, we could activate it with accessibility in casper
[22:30] <rickspencer3> 2. we need to discuss such a change with design team and such
[22:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok, I though 2. was about the session sounds
[22:30] <seb128> not the gdm beep
[22:31] <rickspencer3> beep?
[22:31] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I think it's feasible to make the login sound configurable.  We just need to break a bunch of freezes
[22:31]  * bryceh hits mute key
[22:31] <seb128> or bling
[22:31] <rickspencer3> I don't want to put changing the default experience on the table
[22:31] <seb128> whatever is the short sound played when you arrive on gdm
[22:31] <rickspencer3> this is something we need to bring to UDS and discuss with designers, etc...
[22:31] <TheMuso> THe login ready sound
[22:31] <rickspencer3> seb128, that drum beat?
[22:31] <seb128> yes
[22:32] <seb128> that's the only issues
[22:32] <seb128> other sounds you can configure from GNOME
[22:32] <seb128> issue
[22:32] <rickspencer3> seb128, I know that you advocate turning that off, but I don't want to change the default experience now
[22:32] <seb128> I think we do a mistake
[22:32] <rickspencer3> I understand your position on this
[22:32] <seb128> but well your call
[22:33] <seb128> I think a lot more people get embarassed about this sound than people annoyed by not having it
[22:33] <rickspencer3> seb128, how hard is it for you to add this option to the default GDM settings dialog?
[22:33] <seb128> anyway changing the default if off the table you said
[22:33] <rickspencer3> a check box "play sound on start up"?
[22:34] <seb128> rickspencer3, I don't know yet, will chat about it with robert_ancell after meeting
[22:34] <SEJeff_work> seb128, I agree actually
[22:34] <seb128> rickspencer3, the issue is that currently we change gdm server settings
[22:34] <rickspencer3> seb128, I will take an action to bring this up with designers/sabdfl
[22:34] <seb128> ie things in gdm.conf
[22:34] <seb128> that settings is in the gconf database for the gdm user
[22:35] <seb128> and I'm not sure we have an handy way to write settings for an another user
[22:35] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks, appreciate, sorry to be annoying about this one
[22:35] <rickspencer3> seb128, I really don't think I am going to flex on this though, so please discuss with robert_ancell if you can get an option in instead
[22:36] <rickspencer3> ok, let's move on
[22:36] <seb128> rickspencer3, right, I don't count on a change for the default setting there
[22:36] <seb128> we will get a change it or the feature cut by end of week
[22:36] <rickspencer3> seb128, right ... but I am willing to flex to let a little more work go because I know that you think this is very important
[22:36] <seb128> if the feature is cut I will make sure we get the other tool in universe and document it in some way
[22:37] <rickspencer3> seb128, ok, cool
[22:37] <rickspencer3> I wonder if I could write a little python cli tool
[22:37] <rickspencer3> $gdm-sound disable
[22:37] <rickspencer3> or:
[22:37] <rickspencer3> $sudo  gdm-sound disable I guess
[22:37] <seb128> the only issue is the user change
[22:37] <rickspencer3> ok, let's take that offline
[22:37] <seb128> right, I can hack a checkbox in gdmsetup in one hour which does that
[22:38] <rickspencer3> but we'll figure something out
[22:38] <seb128> but that would display a gksudo prompt
[22:38] <rickspencer3> meh
[22:38] <rickspencer3> seb128, is a gksudo prompt so bad?
[22:38] <rickspencer3> will it prompt for the gdm user or something?
[22:38] <seb128> well the tool is using policykit would be nicer to make use of that too
[22:38] <seb128> but I guess gksudo could be an option
[22:38] <rickspencer3> seb128, ok
[22:39] <seb128> will talk with pitti and robert_ancell about that option
[22:39] <rickspencer3> would be faster, I guess
[22:39] <rickspencer3> so let;s talk guadec
[22:39] <seb128> I will keep you updated tomorrow
[22:39] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[22:39] <rickspencer3> we'll work out a good compromise
[22:39] <rickspencer3> Guadec, TheMuso, RAOF, bryceh, any of you planning to attend?
[22:39] <TheMuso> No
[22:39] <rickspencer3> I already assume that robert_ancell and seb128 will be camping out
[22:40] <rickspencer3> waiting for it to open
[22:40] <RAOF> I wasn't, no.
[22:40] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes
[22:40] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:40] <bryceh> rickspencer3, wasn't planning on it
[22:40] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, please note some facts on the wiki
[22:40] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, what link?
[22:40] <rickspencer3> for instance, if you are interested in helping, you can join the mailing list, and there will probably be things passing through there
[22:41] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-09
[22:41] <rickspencer3> End in 11 days
[22:41] <rickspencer3> Gnomey things go ahead and get a paper ready
[22:41] <rickspencer3> Feel free to subscribe to the list and volunteer: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/subscribe/guadec-list
[22:41] <robert_ancell> oh, yes, saw that
[22:41] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:41] <rickspencer3> so papers, submit them
[22:41] <rickspencer3> mailing list, join it
[22:41] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:41] <rickspencer3> last item of business ...
[22:41] <rickspencer3> Lucid + 1 and xorg maintenance
[22:42] <rickspencer3> so I broke the news to RAOF last night that I am going to ask him to step up and cover for bryceh
[22:42] <rickspencer3> while bryceh is on rotation to Launchpad
[22:42] <rickspencer3> tbh, I was a bit surprised to see RAOF back here this morning ;)
[22:42] <RAOF> Eh, it's only one of the foundations of the desktop.
[22:42] <TheMuso> heh
[22:43] <rickspencer3> anyway, I told RAOF that bryceh would lead planning for Lucid + 1, but I asked RAOF to lead execution for Lucid + 1
[22:43] <RAOF> No biggie ;)
[22:43] <bryceh> hehe
[22:43] <TheMuso> I will be around in RAOF's hours, so if he can take care of the debian/git side of things, I'm happy to sponsor uploads.
[22:43] <rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso
[22:43] <RAOF> Thanks.
[22:43] <rickspencer3> very apropos, because I also told RAOF that the desktop team would rally and generally help out
[22:44] <rickspencer3> so I guess the next step is for RAOF to track all the xorg stuff at UDS and then we can complete a bryceh -> RAOF hand off there
[22:44] <rickspencer3> bryceh, RAOF, seb128 how do you want to handle this going forward?
[22:44] <rickspencer3> (I ask seb128 because he will be tech lead for Lucid + 1)
[22:46] <seb128> (no strong opinion I guess it's mainly up to RAOF and bryceh but handing things over at UDS by letting RAOF lead xorg track seems good)
[22:47] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:47] <RAOF> I'll kick off by getting better acquainted with the full breadth of bryceh's current jobs.  Getting some ati hardware would be good, too - then I'd have at least one piece for each of the major drivers.
[22:47] <bryceh> having RAOF lead the tracks works for me
[22:47] <rickspencer3> bryceh, can you take the lead on setting out and planning the sessions?
[22:47]  * RAOF will need work out exactly what that entails :)
[22:48] <bryceh> raof, now you understand my recommendation to pick up ati hw earlier ;-)
[22:48] <rickspencer3> it seems a bit much to expect RAOF to be able to predict what sessions will be needed
[22:48] <bryceh> rickspencer3, okie
[22:48]  * bryceh bwahahahas
[22:48] <tkamppeter> rickspencer3, hi
[22:48] <rickspencer3> RAOF, leading sessions entails ensuring that decisions are reached and documented
[22:48] <rickspencer3> hi tkamppeter
[22:49] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:49] <rickspencer3> so with that, shall we conclude the longest Eastern Edition ever?
[22:49] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Ok.  That seems reasonable.
[22:49] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, i was going to ask about featured apps...
[22:50] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ok
[22:50] <rickspencer3> ga
[22:50] <robert_ancell> is everyone happy with the list mvo has put up?
[22:51] <rickspencer3> which list specifically?
[22:51] <robert_ancell> I suspect we want to add one or two more
[22:51] <robert_ancell> the ones in the software centre in the current lucid
[22:51] <rickspencer3> you mean actually implemented?
[22:51] <rickspencer3> sweet
[22:51] <robert_ancell> tup
[22:51] <robert_ancell> yup
[22:51] <rickspencer3> I don't like eclipse being in there
[22:51] <robert_ancell> I would drop eclipse
[22:52] <rickspencer3> it's a totally old version of eclipse and we don't support the plugins properly
[22:52] <rickspencer3> users are much better off going to the source for that :(
[22:52] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, otherwise, so long as the gimp is in there, I think we're ok :)
[22:53] <RAOF> :)
[22:53] <bryceh> rickspencer3, I think the upstreams represented in that list view it as a nice kudo
[22:53] <rickspencer3> bryceh, are you referring to eclipse?
[22:54] <bryceh> rickspencer3, one thing we could do to capitalize on it is for packages that didn't get included, to specify the criteria (like in terms of specific bug reports) they'd need to meet.  Might motivate some work to make more apps well suited for ubuntu.
[22:54] <rickspencer3> bryceh, sure
[22:54] <robert_ancell> cheese, homebank, stellarium, gnome-do, deja-dup, eclipse, gimp</SCPkgname>, inkscape, blender, audacity, gufw, frozen-bubble, fretsonfire, pingus, moovida, liferea, arista, gtg, freeciv, supertuxcart, chromium-bsu
[22:54] <rickspencer3> I never thought of that benefit, that folks would want to get in there
[22:54] <bryceh> rickspencer3, nope, feedback was regarding gtg and pioneers specifically, but it's a general observation
[22:54] <RAOF> Does that give the impression that fixing those bugs *will* result in them being added to the list, and if so, does that mean that the featured-apps list will increase without limit?
[22:55] <robert_ancell> RAOF, list is fixed in size, to add a new one you have to remove an old one
[22:55] <bryceh> RAOF, I don't think so, but might be worth thinking through just in case
[22:55] <rickspencer3> glad to see inskape in tehere
[22:55] <rickspencer3> that is some truly awesome software
[22:57] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ok
[22:57] <rickspencer3> I think I really like it
[22:57] <rickspencer3> great job!
[22:59] <rickspencer3> ok
[22:59] <rickspencer3> that's a wrap I guess
[22:59] <rickspencer3> thanks all!
[22:59] <TheMuso> np
[22:59] <RAOF> And now it's coffee time :)
[23:00] <robert_ancell> and now it's breakfast time <rumble>
[23:02] <rickspencer3> RAOF, TheMuso, robert_ancell shall me move the meeting to an hour later?
[23:02] <TheMuso> Doesn't bother me if we do.
[23:02] <RAOF> 9am is fine for me, but 10am is equally fine.
[23:05] <rickspencer3> well, you all sounded so desperately hungry and in need of coffee ;)
[23:06] <seb128> I'm sure it's a plan to try to do after those annoying europe guys go to bed ;-)
[23:06] <seb128> +it
[23:06] <Nafai> seb128: :)
[23:06] <RAOF> Oh, I'm not in need of coffee.
[23:07] <RAOF> I've been up since 7 for a GNOME Do dev meeting; that makes this an excellent time for coffee :)
[23:08] <RAOF> Woot!  Gapless branch merged to banshee trunk.
[23:09]  * TheMuso is up[ at 6:30 to go for a walk and do some other exercise, adn starts at 8:30 so any time from 8:30 suits me. :)
[23:10] <seb128> what is with everybody there and banshee? ;-)
[23:10] <RAOF> “There”?  You mean, in .au?
[23:11] <seb128> no, on this channel ;-)
[23:11] <seb128> but usually it's mostly the mono team guys and jcasto
[23:11] <seb128> and bratsche
[23:11]  * Nafai uses Rhythmbox
[23:11] <Nafai> for no particular reason, really
[23:12]  * RAOF uses Banshee because it was more obvious how to turn on paranoia mode for CD ripping than in Rhythmbox
[23:12] <RAOF> And by “turn on” I of course mean “patch the code”
[23:12] <seb128> lol
[23:15] <RAOF> Mmm.  Youtube extension in trunk now, too.  I wonder precisely what that actually does :)
[23:16] <crimsun> seb128: WRT bug 532095, we carry the same patches as Fedora's pulse. The only difference that affects this symptom is that we disable flat-volumes at runtime via a system-wide conffile. Further, I can use another mixer app, pavucontrol, to unlock the channels and have separate manipulation work correctly. However, my next step is to actually compare code between g-v-c and see whether it's DTRT WRT unlocking the channels 
[23:17] <crimsun> However, if someone else wants to chase it first, that's great. I'm quite busy at work for several more hours.
[23:18] <seb128> crimsun, thank you for coming back about this, I doubt I will have a look to that tonight it's getting late and still have some uploads I want to do
[23:18] <seb128> I might try to have a look tomorrow if you didn't comment before
[23:20] <seb128> I don't really know a lot about pulseaudio though and I'm not sure which part of the stack should be doing the unlocking so I will have an hard time to argue with upstream
[23:20] <seb128> I also guess they will reply that we should be using flat-volume
[23:28] <crimsun> well, I'll certainly ask the OR to enable it in ~/.pulse/client.conf and see if that resolves the issue
[23:29] <crimsun> if it does, the bug indeed has a pulse component, but that doesn't imply g-v-c is entirely without blame -- particularly because pavucontrol does the right thing.
[23:36] <bratsche> RAOF: What's gapless branch?  Is that to keep the tracks playing smoothly with no gap in the sound in between?
[23:36] <RAOF> Exactly.
[23:36] <bratsche> Fucking hot!
[23:36] <RAOF> To make concept albums work.
[23:36] <bratsche> Another reason to use Banshee!
[23:36] <bratsche> Take that, seb128! ;)
[23:36] <bratsche> haha
[23:37] <RAOF> Well, rhythmbox has had gapless playback for a couple of Ubuntu releases ;)
[23:37] <bratsche> Will that be in Lucid, or is it later?
[23:37] <bratsche> Oh, damn.  I take it back then.  I never knew, because it's been forever since I used Rhythmbox.
[23:37] <RAOF> I think the plan is that Banshee 1.6 *will* get into Lucid.
[23:37] <seb128> bratsche, rhythmbox has that for like 2 years ;-)
[23:37] <bratsche> seb128: I suck. :)
[23:37] <seb128> lol
[23:37] <chrisccoulson> it's not enabled by default though is it?
[23:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I don't think it is no
[23:38] <bratsche> All the great stuff isn't enabled by default.  Same with compiz sync-to-vblank. :)
[23:38] <bratsche> hehe
[23:38] <RAOF> It had a big shiny “experimental” flag on it for some time.
[23:38] <RAOF> bratsche: compiz-sync-to-vblank would be more awesome if the X stack had decent sync-to-vblank :)
[23:39] <chrisccoulson> excellent, gnome-screensaver bug reports submitted via apport will now list all the session idle inhibitors :)
[23:39] <bratsche> RAOF: Well, it's built into the Intel driver these days so compiz doesn't need to do anything.  But now I turned it on for my desktop with nvidia hardware, and I guess the nvidia board is just fast enough that it doesn't really hurt the performance noticeably.
[23:40] <bratsche> seb128: Hey, do you have any particular set of gtk bugs that are on your radar that are somewhat important to you and/or Ubuntu?
[23:41] <bratsche> seb128: ted was suggesting that I try to ask David for half a day a week to work on stuff like that.
[23:42] <seb128> bratsche, not off hand but I can get you a list tomorrow
[23:43] <seb128> bratsche, one thing would be the extensible layout thing but that's not trivial
[23:43] <bratsche> No rush, I haven't asked David about it yet or anything.
[23:43] <seb128> like having labels rewrapping on geometry changes
[23:43] <seb128> but that's not for lucid
[23:43] <bratsche> Yeah.
[23:43] <seb128> we have some fileselectors focus or behaviour issues which would be nice to fix
[23:44] <bratsche> Ugh. :)
[23:44] <bratsche> But yeah, cool.. there seem to be issues with that sometimes.
[23:44] <seb128> mvo really wants this speedup change for software-center
[23:44] <seb128> I think he pinged you about that
[23:44] <bratsche> Yeah but I already asked kris about that and he said no way.
[23:44] <seb128> the have listview have an almost fixed mode
[23:45] <seb128> well maybe no way for the specific change
[23:45] <bratsche> Right.
[23:45] <seb128> but what about adding an extra mode or option doing that?
[23:45] <bratsche> There's an issue with the file selector that's been affecting Banshee for a long time, and I posted a patch but I couldn't seem to get a review for it.
[23:46] <seb128> which issue is that?
[23:46] <bratsche> Err, actually federico commented on it and I guess I never followed up on it.
[23:46] <seb128> bratsche, are you interested in any gtk bugs? or specific class of issues?
[23:46] <bratsche> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557689
[23:47] <seb128> bratsche, right, that's the one I was thinking too
[23:47] <seb128> it's annoying for file-roller too
[23:47] <seb128> and probably it other places
[23:48] <bratsche> seb128: Pretty much anything.  I just saw another release of gtk+ come out today and noticed that once again I didn't contribute to it at all, and a year ago I had patches in every release that came out.  I want to be more active again. :)
[23:48] <Riddell> chrisccoulson: xulrunner-1.9.2 accepted, xulrunner 1.8.1 about to be removed
[23:48] <chrisccoulson> Riddell, thanks!
[23:49] <chrisccoulson> Riddell, there is no 1.8.1 is there?
[23:50] <Riddell> chrisccoulson: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xulrunner
[23:50] <Riddell> due to die from bug 516932
[23:50] <seb128> bratsche, bug #181788
[23:50] <chrisccoulson> RIddell - oh, i didn't realise that. thanks
[23:50] <seb128> I guess it's the fileselector issue
[23:51] <seb128> or bug #80755
[23:51] <seb128> bratsche, in any case you fixing gtk issues++ ;-)
[23:52]  * bratsche reads
[23:56] <asac> xf86Resources.h
[23:56] <asac> tjaalton: bryceh: any idea where that might be coming from?
[23:57] <bryceh> asac,  dpkg -S help with that?
[23:57] <asac> bryceh: i dont have it ;)
[23:57] <asac> but i have source wanting it
[23:58] <bryceh> packages.ubuntu.com says it was provided in xserver-xorg-dev in karmic
[23:58] <bryceh> but in lucid not so much
[23:59] <asac> hmm. any idea what happened?
[23:59] <asac> what replaces it?
[23:59] <asac> my source also wants: xf86RAC.h