[00:00] godbyk this is the only active hinese (Traditional) translator https://launchpad.net/~pswo10680 click the "contact user on the right" not may translations so far though [00:00] hi daker [00:01] ubuntujenkins: 'kay. thanks. maybe I'll wait and see if they continue translating it. [00:01] I'd be okay with fewer translations. :-) [00:02] It would be good though if we can get them all done and 100% compete would be sweet [00:02] * ubuntujenkins tries englishuk translations [00:03] * humphreybc now has folders [00:05] * humphreybc is changing the way he uses his desktop. instead of being clear, it is now a dumping ground. [00:05] that's what mine is. [00:05] everything gets dumped there. [00:05] yeah [00:05] then, when there's too much crap littering my desktop, I create a new folder called 'stuff that was on the desktop' and drag everything into that folder. [00:05] lather, rinse, repeat. [00:06] I have somany folders like that to tidy up :-) [00:06] hahaha [00:07] question. if you were designing a new website for lunarnumbat.org, what would it look like? [00:08] what the ..... that is crazy [00:08] i've been meaning to create a new one for them for the last few days, and i've been thinking a lot on what to do but i just can't think of anything cool other than just a standard website [00:09] "a Linux powered robotic Australian marsupial, on the moon" \o/ [00:09] :) [00:10] * ubuntujenkins wishes I was as fluent in german as I am in uk/usa english :P [00:10] can you pls explain to me how to get work with bazaar, because i have some worries [00:10] what are your worries? [00:11] well, i have read the documentation about bazaar [00:12] how can i work with bazaar [00:12] when to use pull and push [00:12] you do pull before starting on some work [00:12] do your work, then do pull [00:13] and if i made a changes ? [00:13] then do bzr commit -m "Description of what you have changed" [00:13] then do a push [00:13] well he should pull first, then do work, then pull again [00:14] that's all ? [00:14] thats what I said :-$ [00:14] and you shouldn't spend more than an hour on work without committing, to avoid conflict [00:14] oh right [00:14] ah oki [00:14] sorry i didn't see the first bit ubuntujenkins :) [00:14] yes thats it [00:14] no problems humphreybc [00:15] that's all ? [00:15] just to stress the pint daker make sure you do a pull again before you do your commit jsut in case someone has done work at the saem time as you [00:15] yep [00:15] *point [00:15] oki great [00:16] so pull get me sync to the last version ? [00:16] yes [00:17] great [00:18] other thing [00:19] so last we made a change on the countdown version of the website [00:19] on the style.css and when i pull [00:19] i got 3 new files [00:19] style.css.BASE [00:20] style.css.OTHER [00:20] style.css.THIS [00:20] and the original file [00:20] style.css [00:21] erm not sure on that one I have no dealings with the website I am afraid [00:21] TommyBrunn, is not here :s [00:21] in the style .css i have [00:21] .center { [00:21] width: 430px; [00:21] height: auto; [00:21] <<<<<<< TREE [00:21] margin: -100px auto; [00:22] ======= [00:22] position: absolute; [00:22] left: 50%; [00:22] top: 20px; [00:22] margin-left: -215px; [00:22] >>>>>>> MERGE-SOURCE [00:22] background-image: url(middlebg.png); [00:22] } [00:22] this <<<<<<< TREE [00:22] and >>>>>>> MERGE-SOURC [00:22] and the ======== [00:23] what means ? [00:23] ooo fun a merge! not that its a problem in her but !Paste is useful [00:23] *here [00:23] that means that two people mad a change in the same file and there was a diffence [00:23] !paste [00:23] For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://ubuntu.pastebin.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic [00:24] funny we have a bot :) [00:24] yes not always 100% awake though [00:25] its me and TommyBrunn [00:25] erm the only thing I can suggest is to work out who made the changes and which ones are better/ the ones that are need. [00:26] between you to then :-) [00:27] i am going to be crasy with bzr [00:28] it rarley happens that there is a merge. bzr is very useful for a project like this [00:29] i know that's very useful [00:30] so ti get work i have to remove the <<<<<<< TREE and the other >>>>>>>MERGE.... [00:31] and possibly the ============ [00:32] it will not cause problems ? [00:33] as long as the rest of the css makes sense still it is fine. Those lines are ther to help you make sense of which parts came form where [00:34] i understand [00:34] cool [00:35] and imagine if i have a file with a hundreds of lines of codes and have many people have made a changes on this file [00:36] I can imagine it could be hard to keep track off [00:39] so who will work on the website ? and what is the plan ? [00:40] daker, not sure and we don't have a plan :) [00:40] welcome to the team! [00:41] thanks humphreybc [00:41] :P [00:41] a short presentation [00:42] 21 year [00:42] from Morocco [00:42] humphreybc quickshot is making good progress thanks to Red HamsterX and titeuf 87. [00:42] welcome darker [00:42] ubuntujenkins: oh really? that's great news! [00:42] *daker [00:43] :) [00:43] we have the screenshots being taken and sent to a webserver [00:43] * ubuntujenkins thinks it may be time for bed to many typos [00:43] and the time out on resolution change is working. [00:44] any way night all [01:30] humphreybc, !!! [01:30] daker, what? [01:30] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull [01:30] Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/ [01:30] Unable to obtain lock file:///home/daker/ubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch/lock [01:30] held by adnane002@gmail.com on host daker-laptop [process #4261] [01:30] locked 4 hours, 24 minutes ago [01:30] Will continue to try until 01:34:17, unless you press Ctrl-C. [01:30] See "bzr help break-lock" for more. [01:30] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull [01:30] Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/ [01:30] Unable to obtain lock file:///home/daker/ubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch/lock [01:30] held by adnane002@gmail.com on host daker-laptop [process #4261] [01:30] locked 4 hours, 24 minutes ago [01:31] Will continue to try until 01:34:17, unless you press Ctrl-C. [01:31] See "bzr help break-lock" for more. [01:31] what's the problem ? [01:31] that's the 4th time [01:31] do bzr help break-lock [01:32] godbyk, dutchie, you guys remember how to break a bzr lock? [01:32] yeah [01:32] had to do it last night [01:32] run bzr break-lock lp:ubuntu-manual [01:33] godbyk, can you explan what's going on [01:34] it happened to me the other night. my internet was up and down. [01:34] and it went down in the middle of a push [01:34] so that locked the branch. [01:34] I had to bzr break-lock lp:ubuntu-manual to fix it. [01:34] then bzr push worked. [01:35] oki [01:39] godbyk, humphreybc how we can organize work on the website ? [01:41] daker, not sure. the website isn't particularly high on the priority list at the moment. the mockups for the website are under /website/source and basically all we need is someone to create a functional site from the mockups [01:42] obviously physicists and astronomers aren't very good at web design, http://www.micro-space.com/ [01:43] humphreybc: physicists invented the web. [01:43] godbyk, +1 [01:43] that doesn't necessarily mean they know how to make it look pretty ;) [01:46] godbyk, i've done a quick mockup for the lunarnumbat website but it looks very similar to the one I did for our team haha [01:47] heh.. it happens. [01:47] i think i'm stuck in a design rut where i can only design one type of layout :P [01:47] maybe you should try something completely different. [01:47] glance through smashingmagazine.com for inspiration. [01:48] okay, i have an idea for something totally different [01:48] http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4418848750/ [01:48] i was thinking of going really dark, like black background, white text - that's more "spacey" [01:48] but then the readability takes a nose dive [01:48] in saying that, http://www.nasa.gov/ [01:49] heh [01:49] it's quite hard designing something with a circular logo [01:50] http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/06/11/space-wallpapers-and-nebula-wallpapers/ [01:54] godbyk, the same problem [01:54] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull [01:54] Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/ [01:54] Unable to obtain lock file:///home/daker/ubuntu-manual/.bzr/branch/lock [01:54] held by adnane002@gmail.com on host daker-laptop [process #4261] [01:54] locked 4 hours, 49 minutes ago [01:54] Will continue to try until 01:59:02, unless you press Ctrl-C. [01:54] See "bzr help break-lock" for more. [02:00] daker: I tried pulling and it worked for me. [02:00] try running 'bzr break-lock' (without the lp:ubuntu-manual) and see what happens [02:01] its work [02:01] great [02:03] fine :) [02:30] godbyk, http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4418941162/ [02:38] good night [02:39] g'night, daker [02:39] humphreybc: better, but I'd incorporate the textblock into the background more. [02:39] how so? [02:40] turn the opacity down a bit so the background shows through a tad? [02:40] instead of gray, let the background show through, yeah. [02:40] lose the serif font, too. [02:40] go sans. [02:42] sans for all? [02:42] yeah [02:43] howcome? [02:43] only the title is serif at the moment [02:45] 'cause sans will look more modern. [02:46] true [02:46] i purposely left out the "About us" title [02:46] do you think i need it? [02:48] I dunno. [02:51] hmm [03:27] godbyk, http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4418304077/in/photostream/ [03:29] not too bad.. not a huge fan of the glow/shadow, though. [03:29] the idea is that the logo is the moon [03:29] and it's an eclipse and... stuff [03:30] everybody knows that space is glowy! :P [03:34] I see. [03:37] lol [03:42] so godbyk what's happening with the screenshots? have you been testing how to get them into the manual? [03:42] and we decided that the distortion was evince's fault, right? [03:43] it looks like they were taken at a resolution higher than 800x600. [03:43] the ones I took? [03:43] and yeah, I think we decided that evince was the culprit and sucked at scaling. [03:43] they were taken at a resolution higher than 800x600 [03:44] you want me to send you some at 800x600? [03:46] yes, please. [03:46] then I can see what scaling factor I should use and make it consistent across all the screenshots. [03:47] k [03:55] okay i'm just going to put them in the branch now [03:57] okay, just pushed [03:57] lucid-screens/800x600 [04:00] * humphreybc thinks digiKam seriously needs a better menu icon [04:00] * humphreybc also thinks it's time for dinner, back in about an hour! [09:28] TommyBrunn: ping [13:56] hey godbyk [13:58] I saw that after translation sync some translated strings disappeared and this is not first time ;/ [14:00] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/revision/423/po/lt.po - on 440 line, all lithuanian translation was deleted [14:04] and now on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/lt/43/+translate we don't have it. If someone changed english string, transalted string must be marked like suggestion. [14:15] and there are more translated strings which disappeared [15:07] * ubuntujenkins finds it anoying when people don't do a pull before they commit stuff [16:32] komsas: Is it because those strings were changed in the original (English) text? Rosetta forces you to translate them again from scratch? [16:35] yes, they disappeared, not went to "fuzzy" mode. [16:38] I'm not sure if that's Rosetta's fault or po4a's fault. I would recommend pinging dutchie about it. He's the expert there. :) [16:39] I know that, you are latex guy :)) but I said dutchie one time about this problem, because this is not first time. [16:41] ok, when he will be, I will ping him. [16:55] godbyk: do you know when writting will "freeze" and we can translate easily? Now we seeing that adds more and more content and it looks like there no end :)) [16:55] komsas: The writing freeze is on 31 March. [16:57] ah.. they changed the date ;/ we will have only more then 20 days. [18:21] hello daker [18:22] hello [18:22] :) [18:23] how r u ? [18:24] I am good thanks, u? [18:24] fine thanks [18:24] good good [18:25] am I in trouble again? [18:26] I don't know why do you ask? [18:26] 16:39:18 < komsas> I know that, you are latex guy :)) but I said dutchie one time about this problem, because this is not first time. [18:27] I wasn't here then I am afraid [19:41] * ubuntujenkins sees a tumble weed roll through the channel. [19:44] dutchie: komsas was just talking about the translations. apparently they're not being marked as 'fuzzy', they're just being flagged as non-existent. [19:44] (brb) [19:49] (back now) [19:49] I think it's launchpad's fault [19:51] it might just be easier to ban people from translating in-branch [19:55] \o/ manual merge reslving time [19:55] resolving( [20:00] yippee! [20:11] lo Kilos, great thanks, super busy [20:12] oops wrong channel, sorry [21:06] dutchie: hey, can you look to my and godbyk conversation and tell something about it http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/09/%23ubuntu-manual.html#t13:56 ? [21:07] * dutchie blames launchpad [21:07] It may also be something to do with people translating things in the bzr branch [21:08] hang on, need a drink to deal with this spicy food [21:08] bon appetite! [21:08] :) [21:08] <-- low spice tolerance [21:09] so this happened recently with the lt translations? [21:10] yes, today morning I saw it, that some translations disappeared [21:10] then I looked to branch and commits [21:11] and saw that http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/revision/423/po/lt.po after this commit it was 03-06, all get wrong.. but how u said it rosseta problem. [21:12] because rosetta wiped out the translations with its export I think [21:12] and it is not first time, I said something about it early [21:12] but others translations marked like fuzzy i think [21:13] in that string who had changes [21:13] but not all [21:13] * dutchie is investigating [21:22] latex [21:22] What was that? [21:23] * dutchie shrugs [21:25] dutchie: can I help you somehow to find problem ? [21:25] I'm just hunting through bzr history [21:25] I'll get there [21:28] a new template just got imported, how does it look? [21:33] * komsas going to check.. [21:42] dutchie: why translation lines dropped from 1400 to 1364? [21:43] because that's how many items po4a found [21:43] I presume that some paragraphs have disappeared since the last import [21:46] dutchie: I found that this line was translated, no it is empty https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/lt/43/+translate [21:47] * now [21:47] if the translation disappeared before, it's not going to magically reappear, unfortunately [21:47] have any more gone? [21:47] * komsas checking.. [21:53] dutchie: it is more then 50 [21:54] more than 50 gone? [21:54] yes [21:54] bloody hell [21:56] I translated some en_GB earlier [21:56] please don't tell me it's gone [21:57] thanks god that there is branch where I can find them, but all our team is so disappointed. I think if like this will be in the future we must wait when all content will freeze. [21:57] dutchie: I think all languages have same problems ;) [21:57] yeah [21:58] * dutchie opens a rosetta bug [21:58] What are you saying? The en_GB ones I did earlier are still intact... [21:59] Have some of then disappeared? [21:59] s/n/m/ [21:59] Well, yes. [21:59] Ew. [22:04] 15% of lines disappeared ;)) it is difference between .po file (from branch) and translations from launchpad. [22:05] Ohh, right. :( [22:05] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/535371 [22:05] Launchpad bug 535371 in rosetta "Translations keep disappearing" [Undecided,New] [22:07] :) [22:14] dutchie: so now is best solutions? to export from rosetta and merge, and then import back? [22:15] komsas: I'll see what sort of feedback I get on the bug [22:16] I'm going to hold off doing any updates for a bit too [22:16] but what to do for translator, they don't want to translate again that lines [22:17] so I will export .po from rosetta, merge, import back [22:17] that's what I do now? [22:17] s/?/;)/ [22:18] ok, I will do how said and all be happy :) [22:20] Hey, dutchie.. I've got a po4a question for ya. Can I tell po4a that certain LaTeX commands should be flagged as 'don't translate' and then they'll just be left out of rosetta entirely? [22:20] things like \coverpage or \then. [22:21] ubuntujenkins, I'm afraid yesterday (and, it appears, today) was filled with too many personal obligations to get much done. I'll see if I can get a few hours before sleeping to take care of the inconsistent stuff, though. [22:21] don't know, godbyk [22:21] po4a is not brilliantly documented [22:22] I think I'm going to have to sit down and read through the source at some point :( [22:22] I've noticed that. [22:22] If you figure anything out (or stumble across a cache of docs), let me know. [22:22] It would save the translators and me a bit of time. [22:22] (Since I have to go in and repair the mistakes all the time.) [22:22] stupid busy life [22:23] don't expect anything until the weekend [22:23] no worries. [22:24] oh god, it's in CVS [22:24] Classic! [22:24] * dutchie has heard nothing but bad things about CVS [22:24] Red_HamsterX, thats no problem at all, we all have other things to do. Please let me know when you would like me to do some testing, I am afraid the technical ins and out of how to make it work are now over my head. [22:25] You an simon have been making great progress [22:30] dutchie: and one more stupid question from me, what you think that all \todo{"text"} disappear from translations, they only confusing, don't help anything for translators. [22:30] the \screenshotTODO{} things? [22:30] they'll go once we have screenshots [22:31] dutchie: no, there's a new \todo command. [22:31] no, text like this "In this manual, we only cover Ubuntu\todo{This needs rephrasing... there are many versions of Ubuntu, but this manual only covers Ubuntu... confusing.}, but don't let that stop you from trying out different variants in the future." [22:31] komsas: translators can ignore the \todo commands. [22:31] they're just notes for editors and readers while we finish writing the manual. [22:31] I presume this is something I should be finding in/hacking into po4a [22:32] Red_HamsterX have we solved the full screen windows with compiz problem? [22:32] right.. ignore the \todo{This needs...confusing.} bit. [22:32] so why they are in translations, it better to find solution how to seperate translation from editors. [22:32] dutchie: it'd be handy if we could tell po4a to just leave that out of the translations. [22:32] ubuntujenkins, I haven't tried that, actually. I'll give it a shot now, though. [22:32] cool if it doesn't work I can try and do some research on how we can get it working. [22:34] komsas: they are in the translations because I don't know how to remove them yet. [22:35] link paragraph line with comment or.. mm.. [22:37] yee.. for now only po4a can help ;) dutchie good luck:) [22:37] komsas: the \todo command actually prints the text in the margin so you can see it in the PDF. [22:38] yee I saw that future, but then all translation sync and now we are not happy ;) [22:39] + problems with disappearing strings.. :)) [22:39] ubuntujenkins, a full-screen capture of a terminal worked just fine using Compiz and 9.10. [22:39] I'm committing a few minor syntax fixes now. [22:40] (Well, after pulling changes) [22:40] thats good will main work after your commit? [22:41] I'm not sure. I'm still working on library stuff, not GUI stuff. [22:42] I think titeuf was working more on the GUI integration. [22:42] are there any extra buttons /windows we need to add? [22:42] Again, I'm not sure. I'm focusing on building an API to handle the behind-the-scenes work. [22:43] Knowing where the list of screencaps to be taken should reside would help me a lot, though. [22:43] Since I could finalize the query-status routine. [22:43] * ubuntujenkins finds the latest list [22:43] I mean where it should be architecturaly. [22:43] Whether it should be read from bzr, pushed to the client, or deployed statically to the upload-server. [22:44] pushed to/pushed with [22:44] I see [22:44] I'm not sure who I'll be discussing that with, though. [22:45] Any location's fine with me. The problem is putting it somewhere where it can be easily maintained. [22:45] That kinda eliminates the upload-server. [22:45] @ all when is the freeze for the screenshots that we want to be added to the manual [22:45] ubuntujenkins: Error: "all" is not a valid command. [22:46] I'm thinking it should be bundled with the client, since any new screencaps to be taken will liekly need additional scripting logic to go with them. [22:46] Red_HamsterX: I would see what humphreybc thinks ask the channel in general and ask titeauf_87 [22:46] (So it's all coupled anyway, given that we likely won't have time to write/embed a scripting language of our own in time) [22:48] if the list needs updating how would we get it to the client? [22:48] update the ppa? [22:49] I'm thinking, at this stage, that if the list needs updating, the client will need more than a filename/summary. [22:49] If we start building automation into it, we'll need scripting rules. [22:49] Simulated clicks, window positioning... That sort of thing. [22:50] Until we have time to design and implement an engine to handle that (which will probbaly have to wait for 10.10), attempting to decouple the design would probably just hurt the timeline. [22:50] Of course, we shouldn't tightly couple anything. [22:50] Which is why I need to speak ot the GUI people. [22:52] hunphreybc desgins the gui, the other main people are me you titeuf_87 and TommyBrunn on the project. with help from other of course :-) [22:53] If the manual has a deadline for when people have to choose which screenshots they want that would help us allot right? [22:53] it does [22:53] That would help narrow the scope considerably. [22:54] But my dillema would still exist, minor though it is. [22:54] It's one of those things that seems trivial, but which can have a lot of influence on the project in the future. [22:54] when is it dutchie? [22:54] I am getting confused Red_HamsterX its been along day. whats the problem again? [22:55] I dunno where to put data. [22:56] The accepted screenshots are currently read from bzr and the pending ones are read from the server. [22:56] ubuntujenkins: there are quite a few freezes along the way [22:56] But there's a need for a comprehensive list of everything that's required. [22:56] We need to decide where that list should reside. [22:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual#Key Dates for the 0.0 series (Lucid) [22:56] bah [22:57] you can see what I mean [22:57] nice [22:57] not sure how up-to-date that is [22:57] ask ben when he appears [22:57] Red_HamsterX I am not sure where it should go myself how it is sounds fine to me [22:58] Red_HamsterX: I'd recommend keeping the list on the web server. [22:59] Ubuntu Manual content freeze: 21st March 2010 [22:59] godbyk, that provides a nice, central location for it, but it also changes the server's role. [22:59] Ubuntu Manual writing freeze: 31st March 2010 [22:59] I will ask ben which one it is covered in [22:59] Rather than simply being a data-dump and access point, it becomes something that needs maintenance. [23:00] Red_HamsterX: I guess I was thinking that the server handles all the QuickShot interaction and will sit between quickshot and bzr. [23:00] Which isn't much of a problem by itself, but it adds a bit of logisitcal complexity. [23:00] So quickshot doesn't need to deal with bzr at all, just the server. [23:00] godbyk, that could work, too. I'll contemplate the changes that would be needed. [23:04] I have no dealings with operating a server so can't really help [23:06] I haven't been following the quickshot discussion at all.. but if you were wanting scripts to run, those could be pulled from the server, too. it's python, so plugins and other forms of extensibility are pretty easy. [23:07]