[00:53] <maxb> Hi, where do I register a vote for PLEASE PLEASE PUT THE WINDOW BUTTONS BACK! :-)  (Assuming this is where the change originated?)
[01:01] <DanRabbit1> maxb: the change originated from very high up and I'm afraid this is no amount of voting that can sway the decision
[01:02] <maxb> *sigh*
[01:04] <maxb> Having major UI decisions forcibly thrust upon you is becoming a distressing trend in Ubuntu
[01:05] <DanRabbit1> maxb: You should try out it first. You might actually like it. I've had my buttons on the left for a couple years now and I would never go back :)
[01:07] <maxb> I don't see the point in trying to retrain my brain on something that isn't even a change in functionality, just moving it around
[01:09] <DanRabbit1> eh, in your opinion
[01:10] <DanRabbit1> Psychologically, the left side of the screen is supposed to be more of a "comfort zone"
[01:10] <maxb> !
[01:10] <maxb> o...... kay
[01:11] <DanRabbit1> Also, this means that window controls will never be under Notify-OSD bubbles
[01:11] <DanRabbit1> well, I shouldn't say never.
[01:11] <DanRabbit1> but less likely
[01:11] <maxb> Yes. well. I use notification-daemon :-/
[01:11] <DanRabbit1> hehe, well then you are obviously capable of modifying your system ;)
[01:12] <DanRabbit1> it sounds harsh, but if you don't like it, there's tons of distros out there. That is what choosing a distro is about. Finding one that fits you the best.
[01:12] <maxb> Anyway, is there a mailing list where this sort of change gets announced? (specifically, announced, rather than high-volume UI discussion)
[01:13] <DanRabbit1> I don't believe this was discussed with the community if that's what you are asking
[01:13] <DanRabbit1> it was something that just happened one day internally
[01:13] <maxb> Well, even if it wasn't discussed, it would have been nice for it to have been announced as it happened
[01:14] <DanRabbit1> maxb: Jono is the perfect person to ask about it ;)
[01:15] <jono> maxb, just switch them back
[01:15] <jono> it is a gconf key
[01:16] <maxb> jono: Is there a mailing list where radical UI designs issuing forth from Canonical get announced, such that people running the development release can get some warning and background on the change, rather than just being surprised by an update one day?
[01:16] <jono> maxb, every ubuntu release has surprises
[01:16] <jono> but the ayatana list is the best place to ask
[01:18] <maxb> Doesn't it make more sense to publish a brief statement why something's being done, rather than having people come asking?
[01:19] <DanRabbit1> hehe, I think they would have to hire someone full time just to write a book rationalizing every change made from release to release ;)
[01:21] <bratsche> DanRabbit1: I disagree that no amount of voting/bitching can sway the decision. :)
[01:21] <maxb> Not every change. Just the ones that are quite obviously going to be controversial
[01:22] <maxb> Really, what annoys me the most is that it's been done without providing a configuration UI. *I* can happily fiddle with gconf. My mother/father/brother can not.
[01:23] <bratsche> Hey jono, how's it going dude?
[03:09] <DanRabbit1> bratsche: well AFAIK it was Mark who made the call ;)
[16:01] <jcastro> seb128: is it indicator-application bug day for you?
[16:01] <jcastro> \o/
[16:02] <seb128> jcastro, yes ;-)
[16:02] <seb128> jcastro, helping my ayatana friends to see clearly what they should look at for lucid
[16:03] <jcastro> cool
[16:03] <jpetersen> I will be back in an hour
[20:36] <Nafai> HI guys
[20:36] <Nafai> Sorry I haven't been online, been a really bad allergy day
[20:36] <ryanprior> Hey Nafai.
[20:42] <jpetersen> Hey Nafai
[20:42] <Nafai> Hi jpetersen, ryanprior
[21:36] <seb128> tedg, bug #530429
[21:36] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 530429 in indicator-applet (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "invalid cast from `GtkStatusIcon' to `GtkWidget' (affects: 2)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530429
[21:36] <seb128> do you think those warnings are coming from indicator-applet?
[21:38] <seb128> jcastro, bug #535267
[21:38] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 535267 in indicator-applet (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Application indicator menu is not updated when new devices are added (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535267
[21:38] <seb128> was there an another bug update issues already somewhere?
[21:39] <jcastro> seb128: running an irc session, I'll check later
[21:39] <seb128> jcastro, ok no hurry
[21:39] <jcastro> jpetersen or nafai might know
[21:39] <tedg> seb128: They could be in libappindicator.
[21:39] <tedg> I wish there was a line number.
[21:39] <tedg> Oh, wait.  That's fixed.
[21:40] <seb128> tedg, I rebuilt without the libindicator change and it's not there
[21:40] <seb128> the warning
[21:40] <seb128> tedg, what is fixed?
[21:40] <seb128> the warning or the update? ;-)
[21:40] <tedg> seb128: The warning.
[21:40] <seb128> where ?
[21:40] <tedg> seb128: I want to give credit, but I don't remember who fixed it... I think it was chriscoulson.
[21:40] <seb128> hum right, I don't get it in lucid now
[21:42] <seb128> tedg, 
[21:42] <seb128> "      Use gtk_status_icon_set_visible to hide the status icon. GtkStatusIcon is not derived from GtkWidget, so gtk_widget_hide doesn't work
[21:42] <seb128> "
[21:42] <seb128> that one?
[21:42] <seb128> tedg, it was chrisccoulson indeed, thanks
[21:42] <tedg> seb128: Yup, that one.
[21:44] <seb128> Nafai, hey
[21:44] <seb128> Nafai, bug #535267, do you know if that's a duplicate and from which bug?
[21:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 535267 in indicator-applet (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Application indicator menu is not updated when new devices are added (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535267
[21:45] <Nafai> seb128: Let me check
[21:45] <seb128> Nafai, thanks
[21:47] <Nafai> It's related to an earlier bug, thought it was fixed, but it could very well be new
[21:47] <seb128> Nafai, can I assign it to you to investigate?
[21:47] <Nafai> sure thing
[21:47] <seb128> thanks
[21:50] <Nafai> This actually sounds like another bug that will be fixed with jpetersen's patch that I think will be rolled out tomorrow with the latest indicator release, I'll check it against the code in bzr
[21:51] <seb128> Nafai, thanks
[21:51] <seb128> tedg, bug #534854, does that speak to you?
[21:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 534854 in indicator-applet (Ubuntu) "indicator-applet logs 'GTK not updated' to disk every 30 seconds (affects: 2)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/534854
[21:53] <tedg> seb128: Yes, that's a dbusmenu bug.
[21:53] <seb128> tedg, ok, should I assign it to you?
[21:54] <tedg> seb128: yes
[21:54] <seb128> tedg, in which cases does it happen?
[21:54] <seb128> tedg, thanks
[21:55] <tedg> seb128: I think that it's something to do with dbusmenu-gtk looking for a property update before being realized.  It's a race condition that is fortunately ending in a warning :)
[21:56] <seb128> tedg, ok
[21:56] <seb128> tedg, sorry for all the ping today but I think we are almost done looking through the list
[21:56] <seb128> then I will let you work quietly on fixing on those isses for lucid ;-)
[21:56] <tedg> seb128: Heh, no worried.  Thank you for going through them!
[21:57] <tedg> worries
[21:57] <seb128> tedg, np
[21:57] <seb128> tedg, I guess you have a bug about the spacing for indicators?
[21:57] <tedg> seb128: Yes, I think kwwii has fixed it in the theme.
[21:59] <seb128> tedg, oh, right, he fixed it in the default theme but not the light one
[21:59] <seb128> tedg, I will chase him tomorrow ;-)
[22:00] <Nafai> bbiab, but I will investigate these things today
[22:01] <seb128> Nafai, see you later
[22:06] <seb128> tedg, btw
[22:06] <seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40652260/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.libindicate_0.3.5-0ubuntu4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[22:06] <seb128> tedg, libindicate still failed to build with your change + the build-depends
[22:08]  * tedg looking
[22:13] <tedg> Uhg, okay.  It needs a lib path.
[22:15] <seb128> right
[22:15] <seb128> it's probably working for you or me because we have a system libindicate installed
[22:16] <seb128> but it should have a -L$(srcdirsomething)
[22:17] <seb128> tedg, what does the indicator ordering? there is a bug saying that applications should go on the left of the sound indicator
[22:17] <seb128> has the order been speced?
[22:17] <tedg> seb128: Yes, it should be in -L$(top_builddir)/libindicate/.libs
[22:18] <tedg> seb128: Yes it has.  And it's in trunk... need to do a release of indicator-applet.
[22:18] <seb128> tedg, good ;-)
[22:19] <seb128> I see, revision 343
[22:39] <jcastro> seb128: lp #535267 looks like a regression
[22:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 535267 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Application indicator menu is not updated when new devices are added (affects: 1)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535267
[22:40] <jcastro> I think that was the problem he was having before
[22:40] <seb128> jcastro, Nafai replied since
[22:40] <jcastro> oh ok
[22:41] <seb128> jcastro, he said that jpeterson's recent change might fix it
[22:41] <seb128> jcastro, he will test that later and update the bug
[22:41] <seb128> jcastro, but thanks ;-)
[22:43] <jcastro> well, while he's in there he can check on the icons
[22:43] <seb128> tedg, bah I don't get it, there is several crash in standard GError use
[22:43] <jcastro> seb128: we wanted to remove the arrow thing and the prefs icon right? So the menu doesn't look all messed up?
[22:43] <seb128> jcastro, that's not a gnome-bluetooth bug but the indicator not respecting the show_icon flag for stock items 
[22:44] <jcastro> oh
[22:44] <seb128> jcastro, we agree there is no change required to the app patch there
[22:44] <jcastro> are we fixing that for lucid?
[22:44] <seb128> I guess so
[22:44] <jcastro> in the indicator I mean
[22:44] <seb128> I'm building a list of milestoned issues for dx work, I will put it there
[22:45] <jcastro> <3
[22:45] <tedg> seb128: Yeah, I've seen a couple that have done that.  I'm not clear on why.  I think it's something with dbus setting errors.  Is that what you're seeing?
[22:46] <seb128> tedg, yes
[22:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson might know about that?
[22:46] <seb128> code is basically
[22:46] <seb128> dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name_owner(priv->bus,...&error);
[22:46] <seb128> 	if (error != NULL) {
[22:46] <seb128> 		g_error("Unable to get the proxy to DBus: %s", error->message);
[22:46] <seb128> with error init to NULL before being used as it should
[22:46] <seb128> and it crashes in the g_error call
[22:46] <tedg> I think dbus must be doing a double free somewhere.  I've looked and not found it though :(
[22:46] <seb128> doesn't make sense to me
[22:47] <tedg> dbus-glib.
[22:47] <seb128> will be tricky to debug I guess
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> hi
[22:48] <chrisccoulson> i saw my name mentioned ;)
[22:48] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[22:48] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you know quite some things about dbus so I was wondering if you saw bugs like this before
[22:50] <chrisccoulson> where is that code from?
[22:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, one bug is bug #532965
[22:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 532965 in libindicator (Ubuntu) "indicator-applet-session crashed with signal 5 in g_type_create_instance() (affects: 1)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532965
[22:51] <seb128> libindicator
[22:51] <seb128> bzr get lp:libindicator
[22:51] <seb128> editor libindicator/indicator-service-manager.c
[22:51] <seb128> line 189
[22:52] <seb128> but I just ran into a similar but in indicator-messages
[22:52] <seb128> bug #522855
[22:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 522855 in indicator-applet (Ubuntu) "indicator-applet crashed with signal 5 in indicator_object_get_entries() (affects: 4) (dups: 3)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522855
[22:52] <seb128> so I'm wondering what the heck is happening with dbus and GErrors
[22:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, don't feel like you have to look at that, I was just wondering if you have seen similar bugs before
[22:55] <seb128> I know you discussed some dbusish issues with james_w
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> i'll have a quick look and see if i can spot something
[22:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[22:56] <seb128> hum
[22:56] <seb128> there is a new dbus-glib bug fix version in debian
[22:56] <seb128> I'm wondering if we should get that in lucid
[22:57] <seb128> hum
[22:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, tedg: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=541632
[22:57] <ubot4> Debian bug 541632 in libdbus-glib-1-2 "libdbus-glib-1-2: wonky results from dbus_g_proxy_call" [Normal,Fixed]
[22:58] <seb128> similar issue?
[22:59] <chrisccoulson> i remember looking at that when i looked at what looked like a similar issue, but it ended up being something different
[22:59] <chrisccoulson> but it could be that issue
[22:59] <seb128> we should get 0.84 in ;-)
[22:59] <seb128> I'm pondering just doing the sync now
[23:00] <tedg> Yeah, that seems likely to be the issue.
[23:00]  * tedg sucks at switch statments which probably why he missed it.  Seriously, it's a coding weakness, I always slow down when writing them.
[23:02] <seb128> chrisccoulson, tedg: ok thanks, I will sync dbus-glib 0.84 from debian and close those bugs with a "reopen if you get the issue again after upgrade"