[13:23] <Omahn> I've been hoping to do some Ubuntu desktop installs to existing Windows machines using a preseeded install. Problem is that I need to shrink the NTFS partition and AFAIK, I need to do this in early_command, pulling in the ntfsresize binary and parted. I've tried this: d-i preseed/early_command string anna-install parted-udeb
[13:24] <Omahn> Unfortunately it just queues the install and so my resize/partition commands that follow fail.
[13:24] <Omahn> Is it possible to use anna-install at this point in the install or should I wget the udebs and install them that way?
[13:30] <exlt> cjwatson: thanks for the push  :)
[13:40] <michaelforrest> cjwatson: thanks for the getting the new branding on the install startup
[13:41] <michaelforrest> cjwatson: I am wondering why it seems to be squashed vertically on my screen though
[13:45] <persia> michaelforrest: What's your resolution and physical screen dimensions?
[13:46] <michaelforrest> I guess the resolution is different during boot
[13:46] <persia> Can be, depending on drivers and hardware configurations.
[13:46] <michaelforrest> (hang on - just checking - I wasn't logged on)
[13:47] <michaelforrest> 1366x768
[13:47] <michaelforrest> 13"
[13:48] <persia> And the dimensions of the source graphic?
[13:48] <persia> I'm kinda guessing, but I suspect that you are displaying a resampled 1024x768 graphic on that screen at boot time.
[13:49] <persia> (which would appear as horizontal stretching or vertical squashing)
[13:50] <michaelforrest> I'm trying it on a 1280x800 (i.e. squarer) 12" display and the ubuntu logo is still squashed vertically
[13:50] <persia> Do you have access to a 4:3 screen?
[13:51] <michaelforrest> yeah that's 4:3 I think
[13:52] <michaelforrest> (well - it is 4:3 - the pixel measurements are from memory so might not be right)
[13:52] <persia> 1064x800 is 4:3.
[13:52] <persia> Lots of modern hardware have non-square pixels.  Same reason why people complain stuff is squashed in HD television.
[13:53] <michaelforrest> ok - it seems pretty extreme to me
[13:53] <michaelforrest> do you know where I can find the logo file?
[13:53] <persia> I could be completely wrong, but I suspect that if it looks good on a 4:3, there's some extra stuff that needs to happen for widescreens.
[13:53] <michaelforrest> yeah it looks wrong on 4:3 too
[13:53] <michaelforrest> so I think it might be the asset
[13:53] <persia> I think you're right.
[13:58] <persia> michaelforrest: I'm sorry.  I'm not finding the asset in a quick search of the few places I thought it might be.  I think you'll need someone more knowledgeable to help track it down.
[13:58] <michaelforrest> yeah I'm not having any better luck
[13:58] <michaelforrest> we need cjwatson!
[14:00] <ev> michaelforrest: does this look okay to you (strength meter): http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/good.png
[14:01] <michaelforrest> yeah that's fine
[14:01] <michaelforrest> can you get rid of all the supporting text under these fields now?
[14:02] <persia> DIdn't all that text get added because of various bug reports due to confusion?
[14:02] <ev> michaelforrest: as in for lucid?
[14:02] <ev> was that something we agreed on in the meeting and I've just forgotten?
[14:18] <michaelforrest> ev: well - it seems you've done the inline validation which I wanted so that we didn't need so much supporting text
[14:18] <ev> okay
[14:18] <ev> a fair point
[14:27] <cjwatson> michaelforrest: we only have one version of the graphic, at 640x480
[14:28] <cjwatson> and it's in lp:~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu, data/lucid/ubuntu.pcx
[14:28] <cjwatson> michaelforrest: can fix this sort of thing after UI freeze, I think
[14:28] <michaelforrest> cjwatson: ok
[14:28] <michaelforrest> thanks
[14:29] <cjwatson> not a new problem, I think - this must have been the case for the old graphic too
[14:30] <cjwatson> either we never noticed or never cared :)
[14:30] <cjwatson> michaelforrest: might be worth checking out the actual file there and making sure I didn't horribly screw it up
[14:30] <michaelforrest> yeah I'll have a look
[14:31] <cjwatson> direct link: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu/download/head%3A/ubuntu.pcx-20091106105925-07zdym3tzmh3m7wc-31/ubuntu.pcx
[14:33] <michaelforrest> cjwatson: the image is fine - it must be getting distorted when it's rendered
[14:34] <michaelforrest> I think the icons along the bottom are suffering similarly
[14:34] <cjwatson> ok, that would be expected then given the current code
[14:34] <cjwatson> it's just displayed full-screen *shrug*
[14:35] <cjwatson> we'll have to either explicitly scale it or (perhaps more feasibly) have multiple versions of the image
[14:35] <michaelforrest> can we not just crop it?
[14:35] <michaelforrest> center it and crop it?
[14:35] <cjwatson> that wouldn't help
[14:35] <michaelforrest> or just have a smaller asset and place it ?
[14:36] <cjwatson> the entire screen is in 640x480 mode, so it's the monitor that's doing the scaling
[14:36] <michaelforrest> so it always has to be 640x480?
[14:36] <cjwatson> yup
[14:36] <michaelforrest> so we need to think of something clever.
[14:36] <cjwatson> well, there may be ways of using different modes
[14:37] <cjwatson> they're not used right now
[14:37] <cjwatson> we only get VESA modes though
[14:37]  * michaelforrest googles VESA modes
[14:37] <persia> Many video displays do have support for crop&center, but that's under BIOS control at the time the logo is shown (unless I misunderstand)
[14:37] <cjwatson> that's probably correct, yes
[14:41] <michaelforrest> so can I file this as a bug?
[14:42] <cjwatson> yes please
[14:42] <cjwatson> I don't immediately know how best to fix it, but it is certainly a bug
[14:42] <persia> Can we fix it directly, or is it something that can only be fixed on a per-hardware solution basis?
[14:42] <cjwatson> I can certainly think of sketches of ways to fix it
[14:43] <persia> probing the framebuffer sort of thing?
[14:43] <cjwatson> we can't do any particularly advanced probing; we can try to select better VESA modes under some circumstances; we can alternatively do image scaling tricks
[14:44] <persia> Hard to identify pixel shape, but that makes some sense.
[14:44] <michaelforrest> where do I need to put the bug?
[14:44] <cjwatson> michaelforrest: gfxboot-theme-ubuntu package in Ubuntu
[14:45] <michaelforrest> ok
[14:45] <cjwatson> that's the usual place for CD boot menu bugs; don't be misled by the "theme" bit, it does more than a GTK theme or whatever would do
[14:46] <persia> As a side note, there appear to be no VESA definitions for any of the common widescreen resolutions.
[14:46] <cjwatson> yup - almost certainly predates widespread widescreen monitors
[14:47] <persia> wikipedia notes "Beginning with the VBE 2.0 standard, no new modes will be added".
[14:47] <cjwatson> not much to be done about it though; after VESA, nearly everything becomes ridiculously card-specific and you end up reinventing X drivers in gfxboot
[14:47] <cjwatson> not my idea of a good time :)
[14:48] <persia> Well, the other alternative is to fiddle with kexec() :)
[14:48] <cjwatson> the documentation describes it as VESA, but it might actually be VBE
[14:48] <persia> But yeah, we're likely to have at least some apparent vertical squashing for widescreens for some hardware solutions for a while.
[14:49] <cjwatson> as soon as I can figure it out, I want to switch to grub2 for CD booting, since gfxmenu is a bit smarter and a bit more comprehensible
[14:49] <cjwatson> but no way for lucid
[14:49] <persia> Indeed.
[14:51] <michaelforrest> what do we call this screen?
[14:51] <ev> michaelforrest: http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/without-password-help.png - okay, or do you really want all the help text removed?
[14:51] <michaelforrest> installer boot screen?
[14:51] <michaelforrest> I think that's better ev
[14:51] <ev> great
[14:52] <michaelforrest> what is in the password field before anything is typed?
[14:52] <michaelforrest> I think we should say 're-enter password' somewhere. maybe in the validation bit
[14:54] <ev> hm
[14:57]  * Omahn needs a notquiteso_early_command that runs after anna sources are setup :-)
[14:58] <Omahn> ^^^^ I'm guessing this doesn't exist?
[14:59] <cjwatson> michaelforrest: CD boot menu
[15:04] <ev> michaelforrest: re-enter password> you mean kind of like the string we just removed? ;)
[15:04] <michaelforrest> well not really
[15:04] <michaelforrest> that seemed more like an introduction to the concept of passwords
[15:04] <michaelforrest> but we should label the fields
[15:05] <michaelforrest> (ideally internally  - so "re-enter password' would be in light grey in the field until it receives focus)
[15:07] <ev> michaelforrest: bah, wouldn't iPhone UI elements be fairly inconsistent with the rest of the desktop?
[15:14] <ev> sorry about being so pessimistic, but I cannot think of a good solution to this problem other than "Password:" and "Password again:"
[15:15] <persia> "Password:" and "Verify Password:"?
[15:15] <persia> (makes clear to the user *why* they need to type it twice)
[15:18] <ev> yeah, the difficulty with that kind of layout is the rest of the page uses sentences to label each field.  I think it would be pretty ugly to put labels to the left for just the password entries.  But I'm not wedded to the idea; if you guys disagree, I'll do it.
[15:19]  * persia has no firm opinion: just doesn't like "Password again:"
[15:21] <michaelforrest> ev: internal labels are pretty common on the web
[15:21] <michaelforrest> it would say 'confirm password'
[15:21] <michaelforrest> we could put it in the title even
[15:21] <michaelforrest> but I don't think it's a big deal
[15:25] <michaelforrest> ev: I will do a mockup of what I'd like and you can tell me if it's gonna be too much trouble
[15:25] <ev> title?  Do you mean changing the "Choose a password to keep your account safe." text to something like "Choose a password and type it again to confirm."?
[15:25] <ev> michaelforrest: okay, cool
[15:25] <ev> thanks a bunch!
[15:35] <michaelforrest> ev: http://assets.grimaceworks.com/without-password-help.png
[15:36] <michaelforrest> having discussed with otto and john
[15:36] <michaelforrest> we think the fields should be labelled like this if it can be done.
[15:38] <ev> should be, I'll look into it in a few minutes (just seeing how hard some of the partitioner changes are first)
[16:06] <shtylman> ev: how does the greeter functionality work? is the install ubuntu option no longer in the boot menu?
[16:06] <shtylman> or has it not been enabled yet?
[16:07] <ev> if a key isn't pressed isolinux will boot the live CD with the maybe-ubiquity option
[16:07] <shtylman> I see
[16:07] <shtylman> and what if a key is pressed?
[16:07] <ev> ubiquity-dm sees this and runs ubiquity with the -g flag
[16:08] <shtylman> k
[16:08] <ev> if a key is pressed you get the isolinux menu
[16:08] <ev> if the -g flag is passed to ubiquity, it sets the UBIQUITY_GREETER environmental variable
[16:09] <ev> ubi-language does the rest
[16:09] <shtylman> yea... that part I got
[16:10] <shtylman> im just trying to troubleshoot with Riddell
[16:10] <cjwatson> none of it's turned on for Kubuntu yet
[16:10] <cjwatson> it's enabled at a per-image level
[16:10] <shtylman> cjwatson: ahhh
[16:10] <shtylman> that explains it
[16:11] <cjwatson> you guys need to send graphics of how the pre-boot-menu screen should work if you want it
[16:11] <cjwatson> s/work/look/
[16:11] <shtylman> ?
[16:11] <shtylman> pre-boot-menu ? ... im all sorts of confused :)
[16:12] <ev> the keyboard equals man screen ;)
[16:12] <shtylman> the keyboard? not the language?
[16:13] <cjwatson> boot an Ubuntu image and have a look
[16:13] <cjwatson> it will be easier than trying to explain it
[16:13] <shtylman> haha ok
[16:13] <cjwatson> the very first screen you get
[16:13] <shtylman> lemme go fetch one :)
[16:13] <cjwatson> shtylman: is bug 532533 fixed in current ubiquity as uploaded?
[16:13] <shtylman> cjwatson: yes
[16:13] <shtylman> assuming it was uploaded after ev merged my branch?
[16:13] <ev> http://lh4.ggpht.com/_FJH0hYZmVtc/S5eHHDoQ0xI/AAAAAAAAGgQ/HRyChBc6xcc/s1600-h/livecd1[4].png
[16:13] <cjwatson> shtylman: if you could make sure to put LP: #nnnnnn notes in debian/changelog (look at the current changelog for examples), bugs will get closed automatically
[16:13] <ev> that thing
[16:14] <shtylman> so maybe I should say... "maybe"
[16:14] <cjwatson> shtylman: are there any other bug numbers fixed by that branch?
[16:14] <shtylman> cjwatson: nope
[16:14] <cjwatson> ok
[16:15] <cjwatson> I've closed that bug
[16:15] <shtylman> I will look into this pre-boot-menu screen thing... cause we don't have a logo yet... :(
[16:17] <shtylman> cjwatson: can we use the ubuntu one for now?
[16:18] <shtylman> until our logo situation is resolved?
[16:19] <cjwatson> wouldn't it be better to just stay as-is until the logo situation is resolved?
[16:19] <cjwatson> I don't want to be in a halfway-house state, in case we end up releasing that way
[16:20] <shtylman> cjwatson: sure... thats fine... so long as we can resolve it :) I will just make sure to follow up with this stuff
[16:21] <shtylman> cjwatson: once we do have the logo... what should I do? can I just make that screen? or what... basically ... where do those screens come from?
[16:21] <shtylman> as far as I know it just appeared :)
[16:22] <cjwatson> just send me a 640x480 graphics file, with the image elements in essentially the same parts of the screen as the Ubuntu ones, and I will take care of it
[16:22] <cjwatson> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu/download/head%3A/ubuntu.pcx-20091106105925-07zdym3tzmh3m7wc-31/ubuntu.pcx
[16:22] <shtylman> cjwatson: cool ... thanks .. I think I can do that :)
[16:22] <cjwatson> oh and there's an access.pcx somewhere in there too
[16:23] <shtylman> k
[16:23] <shtylman> and this also holds true for the boot screen? i.e. the think shown while booting?
[16:26] <ev> no, that's a plymouth plugin.
[16:27] <shtylman> is that the car?
[16:27] <ev> hahaha
[16:28] <ev> apt-get source plymouth; cd plymouth*/themes/ubuntu-logo
[16:28] <shtylman> cool... ok... so I can just add a kubuntu-logo ... or something along those lines
[16:29] <ev> something like that
[16:29] <ev> alberto might be able to help you with that one
[16:29] <ev> I haven't touched plymouth
[16:29] <shtylman> k
[16:29] <ev> tseliot, that is
[18:52] <cjwatson> ev: care to upload user-setup, to hoover up a milestoned bug?
[18:54] <ev> sure thing
[19:01] <CIA-3> user-setup: evand * r217 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.28ubuntu5