persiaconics.net also ships the NetWalker worldwide00:59
ericnjHi guys, is it possible to get armel on Palm Tungsten T3?04:02
* persia checks for specs04:07
persiaericnj: You might be able to shove 9.04 on it, but nothing newer.  I'd recommend trying to install Debian on that device.04:08
ericnjwhere can I get a ready made image,  rootfs?04:08
ericnj9.04 is fine for me, just want minimal with light widows manager.04:10
persiaThere aren't any images for the Palm Tunsten T3.04:11
ericnjcan I use the instruction on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch?04:12
persiaThe babbage image from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/jaunty/release/ will have an extractable rootfs for all of desktop (but that might need too much RAM)04:12
persiaYes.  Those instructions should work fine (you got the URL faster than I)04:13
ericnjwhat is the smallest image size I can use on the rootstock?04:15
ericnjI want to install it on a SD card04:17
persiaI don't know precisely about "smallest".  The buildd minimal chroots are about 60MB after bzip2, so maybe a couple hundred MB?04:19
persiaTry installing the ubuntu-minimal task only, and see what that gets you.04:19
ericnjDo I have to do it with qemu?04:20
persiaNo, but that's easiest.04:22
persiaSo, there are two ways to construct a chroot that are fairly easy.04:22
persia1) If you have a current Ubuntu armel install, you can use debootstrap.  This may or may not work for some Debian installs, depending on a number of factors.04:23
ericnjok, I'm listening04:24
persia2) If you have an Ubuntu install on i386 or amd64 (and potentially other architectures, but not well tested), you can use rootstock to run debootstrap in an emulated environment.04:24
persiaThere are, of course, N other ways, but neither is as easy as those.04:24
ericnjcan you send me some instruction on my e-mail?04:25
ericnjI'm a noobie04:25
persiaWhat sort of instruction, and for which path?04:25
persiaand I'd much prefer to work with you interactively to sort it, rather than trying to write some customised documentation..04:26
ericnjI understand04:26
tkmediayes and others may bennefit from it04:26
persiaThat too :)04:27
ericnjI've tried the instructions on the above page and that's what I've got at the end of my log file: Reading package lists... 99%  Reading package lists... Error!  E: Unable to write mmap - msync (28 No space left on device) E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! I: Killed ...04:28
persiaThat usually means you need to pass a larger value to --imagesize04:28
tkmediaif if setup ubuhntu-armel I should be able to debbostrap lenny right ?04:29
persiatkmedia: That *should* work, but it's not well tested.  There is a small chance that there are some internetworking issues that could be exposed.04:29
ericnjthanks, I'll try that04:30
persiatkmedia: If you are up for testing and reporting any bugs, that would be great.  I'd much prefer if we could support that use case.04:30
tkmediacan i setup ubuntu-armel in kvm by chance ?04:31
MartynI thought there was zero KVM support in armel.04:32
MartynThere's no hardware support for hypervisor functions...04:32
Martyn(TrustZone doesn't provide the right kinds of abstraction)04:33
persiatkmedia: You can't in kvm.  You can in qemu-kvm.  I personally use `mk-sbuild --arch=armel lucid` to create build chroots (works in lucid)04:33
persiatkmedia: Also, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch for richer instructions on getting something running in real qemu, rather than just a chroot.04:34
tkmediayep tried that04:34
tkmediaunfortunately i have arm 404:34
persiaThen you can't run Ubuntu anyway.04:35
tkmediahence then lenny deboostrap question04:35
persiaYou might do better to try to port rootstock to work also with Debian, and then just build your Debian rootfs directly.04:36
tkmediaam i way off04:36
persiaNo, but I think you're doing it the hard way :)04:37
tkmediawhat else is new04:37
tkmediaif there is a hard way ... i seem to find it04:37
tkmediai guess i should jkust suck it up and build a qemu04:38
persiatkmedia: What are you trying to accomplish as an end goal?04:38
tkmediabut i have proxmox and it makes kvm soooo easy04:39
tkmediagood question04:39
tkmediadev environtment under lenny iguess04:39
tkmediaARM 404:39
persiakvm doesn't deal well with cross-architecture things.  Works *great* for i386/amd64/powerpc as long as the guest architecture matches the host architecture, but that's not usually the case here.04:39
persiatkmedia: What hardware?04:39
tkmediasamsung 904:40
tkmedia7-10 touch screen04:41
tkmediamaybe a cortex board is better04:41
tkmediawall mount04:42
persiaIf you're just looking for an electronic picture frame, a newer board is a waste of power.04:43
persiahttp://code.google.com/p/mini2440/wiki/EmdebianChroot might be a reasonable place to start.04:44
tkmediayep i keep ending up back there04:45
tkmediaso iguess i should stop fighting that04:45
persiaIt oughtn't be that hard to generalise the emdebian instructions to work with Debian proper.04:46
persiaAlso, rootstock would benefit from growing the ability to also create Debian rootfs artifacts.04:46
persiaBut if you just want it to work today, the emdebian instructions are probably fastest.04:47
tkmediaI have been tainted by the M$ world04:47
tkmediaso my mind needs reprogramming04:48
tkmediaand VB by day doesnt help04:48
persiaMartyn: Just for completeness sake: 9.04 supported ARMv5, 9.10 supported ARMv6, and 10.04+ is ARMv7.04:49
tkmediais rootstock script based ?04:49
persiaAlso, there were no formal Ubuntu releases of armel prior to 9.04 (although the mojo project had good stuff for several releases from cross-compilation)04:50
Martynpersia : Thanks for the clarification04:50
persiatkmedia: https://code.launchpad.net/project-rootstock is the best place to check.04:50
persiaMartyn: Thanks for steering now3d in the right direction :)04:50
Martynpersia : I had a complete 8.04 system built for/from ARM itself, but that was before the release of the Cortex-A8... more a proof of concept than anything supported04:51
persiaNot the mojo stuff?04:51
persia( mojo.handhelds.org )04:52
Martynnope, not the mojo stuff04:52
Martynin fact, a lot of it was compiled with the CodeSourcery toolchain, inside of ARM.   It predates all the nice root filesystem tools too...04:52
MartynWhich, for the record, rock my world.04:53
Martynrootstock = FTW04:53
persiarootstock is very nice indeed.04:54
persiaBut yeah, that sounds like a special thing.  Not something I'd heard about before.04:54
MartynIt was, but it was also fun04:58
MartynAnd these days I'm still working on getting Lenny working as an arm server04:58
Martynso much that we discussed at UDS has been abandoned04:58
MartynNo Device Tree04:58
Martynno software boot04:58
Martynand there's no point in even trying to get an official arm server build...04:59
persiaWhat's http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/ports/daily/current/04:59
persiaLooks like two armel server builds to me.04:59
persiaDeviceTree just didn't get finished in time, from what I heard.05:00
persiaAnd mukluk needs love, but there's been persistent bugs about kexec() issues, which I believe are finally just getting sorted (but too late for lucid).05:00
MartynYep.  Grant is working really hard05:00
Martynbut the patches are only just now starting to flow05:00
persiaYeah, all credit to him.  It's just a matter of timing against the 6-month cycle.05:00
persiaBased on what I hear, I have a feeling that we might be able to get that for the next cycle.05:01
Martynand that's kind of critical for smooth-stone chips05:01
Martyndevice tree will make booting our SoC much, much easier05:01
tkmediahmm ps3 install05:02
persiaMake booting *everything* easier.05:02
persiatkmedia: -> #ubuntu-powerpc :)05:02
tkmediaanyone try that?05:02
tkmediais it virtual05:03
tkmediait runs intheir hypervisor right ?05:03
persiaMartyn: Have you been testing the DT stuff in your kernels?  Do you know what we need to tweak in image builds to make it just work?05:04
tkmediaor can you take full advantage of the hardware?05:04
* tkmedia is off to read up05:05
Martynno, I'm not touching the DT stuff at _all_05:05
MartynRight now, I'm porting linux to specifications, since we don't have a test chip built .. and RTL runs 8 million times slower than the actual processor05:05
persia8 million!  So you get, what, about 1.5KHz?05:06
* persia can't do math, and gives up.05:07
Martynno, 200Hz05:09
Martyn300 if the simulation is run on a very, very fast nehalem (3.2Ghz or better)05:09
Martynmulticore isn't yet supported by anyone for RTL sim05:09
Martynso you basically are running unicore05:10
Martyn(that's being addressed, but a lot of this kind of thing CAN'T be run parallel)05:10
persiaSo if DT gets far enough to land in lucid+1, that actually works for you.05:10
MartynOne of my workmates (JAson Hobbes - n3onfr3on) is working on that part05:11
persiaAlso, have you tested the server images at all?  I don't know that they are getting enough testing, but I suspect they ought get some.05:11
Martynsince he's writing the bootloader05:11
persia(and it was your spec that made them happen)05:11
MartynI can't test them .. while they are built for v7a, my kernels don't properly support thumb2 yet05:11
persiaI thought you had a Lange05:12
Martynbecause I'm running in FastModel05:12
MartynYeah, I have a lange board .. but I don't have the debug cable05:12
MartynI need to get that from ojn before I can reconfigure u-boot05:12
Martynlange 5.1 even05:12
persiaOh right, I remember now.  Sorry for the reminder of the pain.05:12
Martynin fact, I'd like to try the -desktop- build on the lange 5.105:12
persiaThat's been dropped.  THe only images being built are Ubuntu Netbook, Kubuntu Netbook, and Ubuntu Server.05:13
persiaNot to say you can't create one, but images just aren't being built.05:13
MartynI can use the server image, and apply most of what's needed to get desktop05:14
persiaJust preseed a late-command to install the ubuntu-desktop task, and you can do it in one shot.05:15
persiaAlthough netinstall images might be better for that use case, because most of the server pool is uninteresting for desktop.05:16
Martynbut, for now the lange sits on my desk unused05:16
Martynthe versatile2 gets a lot more attention05:16
persiaWaiting on ojn :)05:16
Martyneven if it is just a 400Mhz Cortex-A905:16
persiaThat's not bad at all.05:16
DanaGinteresting... device-tree coming to ARM?05:37
persiaDanaG: Indeed.  The idea is to move from kernel-per-board to kernel-per-SoC by using DeviceTree to handle board-level variations.05:39
DanaGhmm, how would it handle different memory locations?05:40
persiaAnd this is critical from a distribution POV, as it means we can actually support N devices.05:40
persiaHow do you mean?05:40
DanaGah, that's the per-SOC part.05:40
DanaGSame SOC will have same memory layout for at least main RAM.05:40
persiaOh, yeah.  Moving from per-SoC to per-architecture will require an entirely different level of cooperation05:40
DanaGFirst time I'd used Device-Tree was with Microblaze.... that was an exercise in broken tools.05:41
persiaIf you've experience working with it, and want to help make it happen (to avoid the broken tool situation), please track followups to http://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2008/ols2008v2-pages-27-38.pdf05:43
persiagit://git.secretlab.ca/git/linux-2.6 test-devicetree seems another good source05:44
DanaGwhat I mean by broken tools, is things like a cross-compiler, that, when trying to build, segfaults the host compiler. =þ06:06
persiaUgh.  Yet another argument against cross-compilers.06:08
DanaGYeah, I thought that was comically bad -- I mean, I don't even see how you could make a compiler segfault.  Really bad code? =þ06:10
persiaICE isn't hard to achieve if one takes the effort.06:13
persiaTHis is unfortunate, but the nature of developing tools.06:13
tkmediawhat do you guys think of the smart Q706:59
persiatkmedia: It's too big :)  Also, it can't run lucid (ARMv6)07:02
GrueMasterpersia: I thought lucid was armv7?07:02
GrueMaster(or are you referring to the smart?07:03
persiaGrueMaster: SmartQ707:03
persiaThey ship with something based on jaunty, but I *think* they could be upgraded to karmic if someone uses a custom kernel.07:04
persiaI'm fairly certain they can't run lucid.07:04
persia(although SmartDevices may well come out with another generation, and the price is certainly right)07:04
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ethana2hello, from my Droid07:14
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asacJamieBennett: gave you a RC  bug so we can upload in freeze: bug 53735613:38
ubot4Launchpad bug 537356 in webservice-office-zoho (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "application menu entries dont do anything (affects: 1)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53735613:38
asacxserver with imx fallback patch is about to finish building ;)13:42
JamieBennettasac: thanks :)13:43
ograasac, now it just needs proper EDID detection :)13:44
asacogra: the current solution is quite good enough i think ;)13:44
persiaWell, depends on one's monitor13:44
ograi want my 1900x1002 !13:44
asacoh edid13:44
asacogra: how is that done?13:44
ograno idea i have to look into it, it wasnt ready in the old driver i have around here13:45
asacwell its not ready here either13:45
asacbut maybe its just a code fix ;)13:45
ograbut i think its already done when the fb device inits13:45
asachmm on init feels wrong13:45
asacmonitor might get plugged in/out swapped etc.13:45
asacxrandr should tell us better info ;)13:45
ograxrandr is after EDID13:46
asacok i will check that13:46
asacsure xrandr hopefully just reflects what EDID gave us13:47
asacor gives us (when mohnitor changes)13:47
persiaI was under the impression xrandr wasn't available based on the snipped of the log that was pasted yesterday.13:47
ografbcvt: 1024x768@60: CVT Name - .786M313:48
ograthats what i have in dmesg13:48
ograxrandr is available but only with a handfull of default resolutions13:48
ograup to  1024x76813:48
asacat least it detects for me its a lcd with proper subpixel13:49
ograand we dont know if resolution changing works yet13:49
asaccant you try lower resolution in fbdev?13:49
ograyou can try setting modelines with fbset13:51
ograand you can indeed add modelines in xorg.conf13:52
ograif xranbdr works you should even be able to use modelines there to add new modes13:52
NCommanderdmart: ping?13:56
dmartNCommander: hi there13:57
NCommanderdmart: sorry I missed you yesterday13:57
dmartno probs; just wondering what our next steps should be on OOo13:57
NCommanderdmart: funny, I was going to ask you the same thing :-)13:57
NCommanderdmart: I retested karmic gcc-4.3 + jaunty binutils, and got a working uno from fresh sources13:58
ograNCommander, did you talk to doko btw, i think he did all these varaition tests already13:59
ograhe should have a test matrix for what combo works and which one doesnt13:59
NCommanderogra: I talked to him earlier, but he didn't say anything about that. I'll make sure to ask him for that13:59
ograi tested a *ton* of different builds he did14:00
ograeach with a different combo of gcc and binutils14:00
NCommanderogra: I'll ping him14:00
NCommanderogra: that's good to know. I just wish it was on the bug :-/14:01
NCommanderdmart: TBH, I'm kinda out of ideas on this one.14:01
NCommanderdmart: we know what appears to be the base underlying cause for the OOo boom14:01
NCommanderbut I don't really know how to fix it, or how to even rewrite the ASM snippet to be less evil14:01
ograNCommander, just build it with --no-uno-crash14:03
* NCommander whacks ogra14:03
* NCommander feels better14:03
* ogra feels short now14:03
persiaSo, about OO.o.14:04
persiaFrom what I saw recently, I thought we knew what changes to the toolchain were providing what extra bits that caused which problems.14:05
persiaWas the .eh... issue resolved or still open upstream?14:05
persiaOr did someone confirm this wasn't really the issue?14:05
NCommanderdmart: I'm not even sure what to bring to OOo upstream about this, from there perspective, it looks like a pure toolchain bug14:11
dmartNCommander: the problem file had some maintainers' names -- have you tried to contact them?  I think the first thing is to understand from them what the code is trying to do, and explain our concerns about why it looks incorrect.14:21
NCommanderdmart: no, I haven't14:22
=== ndechesne is now known as ndec
dmartI can draft a mail if you like.14:24
dmarthang on a moment14:28
dmartNCommander: did you look at this?: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/393294/14:30
NCommanderdmart: I smell magic in that file14:31
NCommanderdeep scary magic14:31
dmartUmmm, yeah14:31
dmartThe two first *p++ poke ARM instructions into memory14:31
dmart> mov r12, pc14:31
dmart> ldr pc, [pc, #4]14:32
dmartThis explains why privateSnippetExecutor assumes there is something in ip (r12)14:32
NCommanderdmart: I think my crack fuse just burt out :-/14:32
dmartI guess it's used to look up the functionIndex and vtableOffset values which get poked14:33
NCommanderdmart: there is no guarette thats going to laid out like that in memory though, or with no padding and stuff done14:34
NCommanderdmart: actually, it could have been the move to ARMv6 that might have brokened it in the first place since that removed the strict algnment access requirements14:36
NCommander(not sure, but a possible theory)14:36
=== dmart_ is now known as dmart
dmartHey ramana14:40
dmartI know what's in ip (ish)14:40
dmartIt contains the pc value in a trampoline used to read the destination vtable offset and function index, see http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/393294/14:41
dmart...or at least it would contain that if any version of the linker ever provided a guarantee14:41
NCommanderdmart: on a scale of 1-10, how high is the crack factor of what OOo is doing here?14:41
NCommanderdmart: but privateSnippetExecutor works14:42
NCommanderdmart: thats been previously tested, and works as expected14:42
persiaShouldn't it not work as expecting, as with all the mov *,pc stuff?14:42
dmartThe linker is allowed insert trampolines for function calls, which are permitted to corrupt ip.  The chance of this happening is pretty low, but it's not "safe"14:43
dmartI think the code in question will get executed as ARM, and the way it branches it interworking-compatible.14:43
dmart...anyway, I don't think this code is failing, it's just a bit scary14:44
NCommanderdmart: bit?14:44
NCommanderdmart: ugh, I just realized something nasty14:44
NCommanderdmart: part of the ASM instructions exist outside the .S (as the hex magic)14:45
NCommanderdmart: so even if we add unwind table entries, ther're not going to properly "mesh"14:45
dmartBecause the trampoline generated by privateSnippetExecutor only trashes ip, it might not need any unwind info... but I'm not the expert on this14:46
dmartAlso, I think no exception can occur in the trampoline itself, because it calls no functions except for jumping to privateSnippetExecutor14:47
NCommanderdmart: thats not the problem, the problem is libgcc bails out because on CANTUNWIND segments (in theory)14:48
* dmart is grepping the OOo source to try and work out where this code gets called from, but it will take a while14:48
johannes_cortex a9 processor seems to be the fastest and most fitting processor for a small client with gui, does someone know where I can buy a mainboard with this cpu?14:48
ynezznvidia tegra214:48
dmartjohannes_: I've seen Ubuntu at least Ubuntu karmic working on tegra214:49
NCommanderdmart: uno2cpp.cxx only14:49
NCommanderdmart: same folder14:49
dmartNCommander: I mean, where the functions codeSnippet and flushCode in uno2cpp.cxx are called from...14:49
ynezzjohannes_: http://tegradeveloper.nvidia.com/tegra/14:49
NCommanderdmart: if you read the UNO CPP code, your mind will release itself from mundane concerns as the horror of it takes over14:49
johannes_thanks Ill have a look at tegra214:50
NCommanderdmart: ah. theres a porting uno guide you might want to look at14:50
dmartOh, where?  That sounds useful14:50
NCommanderdmart: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Lazy_Hackers_Guide_To_Porting - skip to the first part of Hard Bit14:50
NCommanderdmart: it deals with how the HPPA port was done.14:51
=== dl9pf_ is now known as dl9pf
johannes_mhm bei tegra2 finde ich nur dinge, wie tablet pcs, ich suche aber nach etwas, wie dem beagleboard nur mit einem oder mehreren Cortex A915:02
ograjohannes_, i dont think they are freely sold yet15:03
persiaOne needs to apply.15:03
johannes_oh sry for writing in german15:03
ogramacht nix :)15:03
persiajohannes_: Are you looking to build something, or do you want a shipping device?15:04
johannes_I thought about a fileserver with a quadcore Cortex A9 as I read some articles it would have a lot of power15:04
johannes_I want to build something for myself15:05
ynezztegra is dual core "only"15:08
ograyeah, lame, isnt it ? :P15:09
johannes_but there are processor on it, I dont need, 3d graphics for example15:09
johannes_and I couldnt find a mainboard yet15:09
ynezzit's too hot15:09
ynezzyou can't even buy it in Europe15:10
persiaI've not seen any bare mainboards except for "development boards".15:10
persiaMost stuff seems to be inside devices.15:10
johannes_thats sad15:10
ograthat will use a tegra215:11
ograi read somewhere15:11
ynezzbut who knows when they start shipping it out :)15:11
persiaReal Soon Now15:12
ynezzhm, good15:12
persiaThat's why I like the devices I *know* are shipping.15:13
persiaWe can get them today.15:13
ograwell, just hit the fast forward button ...15:13
persiaOne of those several-month retreats?15:14
ograheh, yeah15:14
johannes_a question in general: would a quadcore Cortex A9 actually be powerful enough to support: mdadm raid 5, trunked Gigabit Ethernet, 2 HDTV tuner cards (for a vdr backend without decoding)?15:15
ograif you find HDTV cards that fit into any ARM device ...15:16
ograare there HD USB tuner cards ?15:17
johannes_size doesnt matter, it is only about power consumption15:17
johannes_some but most are pcie or pci15:17
ograright, PCI is rare on ARM boards15:17
ograsockets at least15:17
persiaThere are USB HD DTV devices.15:18
johannes_mhm I guess I was a bit naive, thinking I could simply change my opteron board with a armsystem15:18
persiaWell, there exist a few boards with PCIe, but nothing running those chips I've seen15:19
* persia has PCIe on an orion board15:19
ograthere will surely be some server boards with a9 chips *soon*15:19
johannes_what do you mean by soon?15:19
ograthose would have PCIe i assume15:19
ograjohannes_, within the next 254 months ?15:20
persiaMaybe.  Maybe PCIx15:20
ogra24 :)15:20
persiaNo, 254 is definitely correct.  24 is a bet.15:20
johannes_mhm better than 254, but still a long time15:20
ograno idea ... i dont know how many companies wortk on server boards15:20
ograbut a9 are definately somehting thats intresting for datacenters15:21
johannes_When ubuntu is installed on an arm system, can I use all the programs, that are available for x86 ubuntu too?15:21
persiajohannes_: I suspect that what you want is a next-generation NAS box (for the raid), with the HDTV USB bits plugged in the back.15:21
persiaThis wouldn't be building it yourself, but is probably the earliest purchase option.15:21
persiajohannes_: There's a couple hundred packages that don't work right now, but we try to get that as close to zero as we can.15:22
ograjohannes_, yes, the majority works on arm as on x8615:22
johannes_I would prefer if it was still more pc than NAS, as I like to try things out with linux15:22
johannes_that sounds great15:22
johannes_what about drivers? (for tuner cards) can they simply be installed or do I need special ones?15:23
persiajohannes_: The difference between a "Small form factor PC" and a "NAS box" is a USB keyboard and a USB Display module :)15:23
ograjohannes_, as long as there are linux drivers they should just work15:24
persiaFor USB tuner cards, the same drivers should work for any architecture.  For other tuners, you may need to do some tweaking.15:24
suihkulokkijohannes_: openrd board comes with one PCIe slot15:24
johannes_I look it up15:24
ograsuihkulokki, but can the CPU do HD processing ?15:24
ograthough its a backend ... probably thats not actually needed if the card is powerful15:25
suihkulokkiogra: didn't he say we won't do decoding ?15:25
persiasuihkulokki: That's the ARMv5 chip that's in the SheevaPlug, right?15:25
suihkulokkipersia: which is good enough for the usecase.15:25
persiaAbsolutely.  Just wanted to confirm my reading.15:25
ograsuihkulokki, well, recording and streaming i guess15:25
johannes_basically streaming only15:26
=== mcasadevall is now known as NCommander
suihkulokkioviously thing like recompressing streams or analyzing + cutting out ad breaks is out of question with any arm cpu15:27
NCommanderdmart: *sigh*, how best do we draft this email?15:27
dmartI will look a bit more and then send you something...  But I think the code in armhelper.s is a fairly straightforward trampoline in which case the solution might not be too complicated.  Too early to say though...15:30
tkmediahow about using a network tuner like hd homerun15:32
ograi think thats only DVB-T15:34
ograthere are no german HD channels over DVB-T15:34
ogra(assuming johannes_ is german after he spoke german here :) )15:34
persiawikipedia claims there are 4 modles of which only one is DVB-T15:35
tkmediaI use the US version15:35
ograpersia, the german version is DVB-T only afaik15:35
johannes_yes, I am german and thing is: I already got myself a skystar hd2 for the server I am using right now15:38
dmartNCommander, ramana: The code which looks interesting is in:15:44
dmart(if you want to look and didn't already look at one of those)15:45
=== plars` is now known as plars
dmartNCommander: hi again16:23
looldmart: Yes, that's the uno2cpp bridge, and it's what upstream told me was likely broken16:24
NCommanderdmart: hola again16:25
dmartHi there... I was just chatting for ramana and matt16:25
dmartWe now understand better what privateSnippetExecutor is doing16:26
dmartand we think we have a fix: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/393376/16:26
dmart(i.e., delete 2/3 of the function :P )16:26
NCommanderdmart: O_o;16:26
looldmart: Amazing!16:26
NCommanderthat will be one hell of a fix if it works16:27
dmartThis may just expose the next bug :/16:27
dmartCould you give it a try?16:27
dmartMy OOo build will take some more days to finish...16:27
ografunny fix :)16:27
* dmart admits that we did change a couple of lines as well as deleting some16:27
ubot4Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.16:28
NCommanderdmart: incremently building, please stand by16:28
NCommanderpersia: where was the language violation?16:29
dmartBasically, the unwinder doesn't need to see this function at all if we tail-call optimise it (i.e., just jump to cpp_vtable_call and let it worry about the return)16:29
ograpersia, if i would mention it in a religious context would you also "ohmy" me ?16:29
persiaogra: No.16:29
ograso why do you do it in this context ?16:30
persia(but if I don't ohmy people in #ubuntu-* I may get chastised by those who oversee me keeping the channels open)16:30
NCommanderdmart: we MAY have a winner16:30
NCommanderstand by16:30
persiaogra: IRC guidelines for #ubuntu-*.  I don't personally really care, but I like having IRC channels :)16:30
dmartUmmm, actually, who was the ohmy for?  If no-one can tell it will just cause confusion...16:31
ograthats a pretty silly rule16:31
ogradmart, <NCommander> that will be one hell of a fix if it works16:31
ogra(risking another ohmy)16:31
* dmart kpees smoe fngries cssoerd but it mkeas it hrad to tpye16:32
=== ramana is now known as ramana-away
* persia should get better at passing | to the bot16:33
dmartNCommander: it would also be interesting if you can shove this patch into your current working distro+libs+OOo combination and see whether it breaks anything16:33
dmartIf not, pushing the patch is a no-brainer because is provides some cleanup, and also will avoid the risk the current code has of an incoming signal corrupting the stack16:34
NCommanderdmart: buildingnow16:34
NCommander(with g++ 4.4/binutils 2.20)16:34
NCommanderdmart: kmaric16:35
dmartOh, right16:35
NCommanderladies and gentleman16:35
NCommanderIT WORKS!16:35
NCommander(also tested on lucid)16:35
ograwell, try lucid16:35
ograhooray !!!!16:35
* lool thinks the ARM folks deserve some Champagne16:35
dmartOoo works, or just builds?16:35
NCommanderdmart: works16:35
dmartWow, cool :D16:36
ogralool, free beer for dmart and his team for the whole UDS i'D say !16:36
NCommanderogra: +116:36
dmartWhat, I have to wait till then :(16:36
NCommanderdmart: we don't have beer transport over IRC16:36
* ogra send some virtual beer right now16:36
NCommanderdmart: how'd you figure out to reduce armhelper.s to what it is now?16:36
loolSomeone uploads to lucid?16:36
* NCommander quite envious to cracked this so quickly16:36
ogra*german* beer16:36
dmartSave some for ramana and matt, this was definitely a collaborative effort16:36
NCommanderfree beer for anyone who touched this bug16:37
ogradmart, so i hope we'll see them in brussels16:37
NCommanderlool: someone has to dump it into ooo-build upstream. OOo in lucid has no patch system of its own16:37
* NCommander goes to grab ccheney16:37
ograNCommander, heh, then i'd get the most beer, i filed it :P16:37
ogratouching really doesnt count :)16:37
NCommanderogra: we can just make david file it as expense. Brain damage remover!16:38
dmartNCommander: looking at the call too privateSnippetExtractor, we observed that it does nothing after the call to cpp_vtable_call, except to tidy up a stack frame which is only needed at all because it was set up16:38
dmart...so we just branch to cpp_vtable_call.  cpp_vtable_call's return later goes straight back to the original caller.16:38
NCommanderdmart: thats clever16:39
loolIt's basically a jump trampoline I guess16:39
dmartBecause there's no return address on the stack pointing into privateSnippetExecutor, the unwinder doesn't need to know about it at all16:39
NCommanderdmart: so the unwinder was the root cause of the problem, and you just made privateSnippetExecutor disappear?16:40
dmartWhen an exxception occurs, the unwinder saw that there was a pending return into privateSnippetExecutor, but didn't know how to unwind that function16:40
dmartBut since no state needs restoring anyway, we can have the unwinder skip it completely simply by not returning to it.16:41
NCommanderdmart: wow. thats clever16:42
* NCommander feels humbled16:42
NCommander^in the precense of greatness16:42
asacdmart: you guys fixed it?16:47
persiaasac: That's the theory : we have to do the upload / builder / install dance to 100% verify.16:48
asacNCommander: patch attached to bug? ooo target opened?16:49
NCommanderasac: I just poked ccheney to add it to ooo-build16:50
asacyeah saw in -deesktop16:50
asacdmart: plenty of kudos to whoever was involved in this!!16:50
dmartSince we don't really understand OOo, I don't understand much about exceptions and we couldn't debug or test this locally, I'll certainly be happy if it works ;)16:52
dmartI passed on the good news to ramana and matt here16:52
NCommanderdmart: lets call it a successful joint effort between Canonical-ARM in futhering the position of ARM on the desktop. Regardless, this wouldn't have been possible without you, ramana and matt :-)16:55
=== ramana-away is now known as ramana
dmartWell, the OOo community might have fixed it, but it's harder to persuade upstreams to undertake that when we're not sure whether the real problem is a tools issue or something else.16:57
looldmart: the arm port isn't actually upstream, it's a fedora patch16:58
* dmart anticipates a shiny new .deb to confirm all this16:58
NCommanderlool: its partially upstream, but not considered a priority by OOO as far as I can tell16:58
NCommanderhalf of it is in their CVS, the other half is in ooo-build16:58
dmartAnyway, hopefully they'll accept the patch without problems; it cleans up some code if nothing else.16:59
dmart...and we still think the old code wasn't signal-safe16:59
dmartramana: take a bow :)17:01
ogra*clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap*17:02
ramanaThanks but the credit is actually due to Matt and the others in the team who spotted the differences with respect to the frame.17:05
dmartWell, it was a shared effort...17:05
dmartNCommander: thanks to you too17:06
looldmart: Oh I'm sure the maintainer of that piece of code will welcome it heartily17:06
NCommanderdmart: I just figured out how build the beast17:06
loolI'm pretty sure it's going to hit the next RHEL and I think they care about the ARM port there17:06
armin76thanks to me too!17:08
dmartmgretton: quick, take some credit before it's all gone!17:09
Who_ogra: ping - I've got an issue with building from rootstock and the wiki says to come and talk to you...17:19
ograwhats the issue ?17:19
Who_ogra: I'm using a Lucid VM to build a lucid image, and it got as far as unpacking libglibmm but has been hung for the last two (ish_) hours after outputting the message 'udevd[45]: specified user 'usbmux' unknown'17:22
Who_that message is there three times17:22
ograyeah, known bug (and no fix yet)17:22
=== ramana is now known as ramana-away
ograbug 53273317:23
ubot4Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed (affects: 1)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53273317:23
Who_ogra: so for now, there's not a way to build a lucid image that requires libglibmm?17:23
Who_ogra: thanks17:23
ograWho_, build an image with ubuntu-minimal for now, then just apt-get install waht you need on real HW17:23
ograminimal definately works17:24
Who_ogra: yep - I was just modifying my script :)17:24
Who_ogra: do you know much about sound on Beagle/IGEP?17:24
ograits some mystical qemu issue i'm not able to track down properly17:24
Who_or can you point me to someone who does?17:25
ograno, sadly not, rcn-ee builds the beagle kernel package, he might at least know the kernel side17:25
Who_ogra: it doesn't seem to be kernel related: I've got an 9.04 image (shipped with device) that has working sound and my 9.10 rootstock (using the same kernel and modules) doesn't work...17:26
ograNCommander, so since you like to dig into the odd bugs ... i'm lost on bug 532733, probably you have any ideas17:26
ubot4Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu) "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed (affects: 1)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53273317:26
NCommanderdmart: what do we want to call teh patch?17:26
ograWho_, try to create an audio group and add your user to it17:26
persiaNCommander: dmart: Also, to whom should be given author attribution?17:27
Who_ogra: also, while I'm thinking about it... I made this for myself: https://launchpad.net/rfsm - I don't know if it is of any interest more generally - but if there's now a good way to tie it in to the rootstock system I should look at doing that... (I notice rcn-ee seems to be using a --script command)17:27
ograWho_, rootstock in lucid has the --script option17:28
ograWho_, even the new gui has the option to select a post install script :)17:29
Who_ogra: okay, I'll try and tie in with that17:30
Who_ogra: also, audio group already exists. I'll keep digging on the sound issue17:31
dmartNCommander: How about "privateSnippetExtractor simplification to avoid exception unwind failures and stack corruption risk" ?17:31
dmart"privateSnippetExtractor simplification to avoid exception unwind failures and stack corruption risk on ARM"17:32
persiaIdeally we want a name that can also be a filename :)17:32
persiaThat looks like a Description: entry for DEP317:33
ogra branch_directly_to_cpp_vtable_call_on_arm.patch17:33
ograand dmart's description17:33
persiaJust needs Author: then.17:33
dmartYeah, sounds ok17:33
ogra"the arm guys"17:33
persiaIt's supposed to be a person who can grant license for reuse in the project, etc.17:34
persiasilly tort law to work around silly copyright law, etc.17:34
=== ramana-away is now known as ramana
MartynI'm going to spend my day porting this: http://community.livejournal.com/openvz/24651.html to Lucid17:49
persiaI think that a bunch of that work was already done17:49
ograMartyn, openvz was rejected from the ubuntu kernel17:49
* persia hunts for the bug17:49
Martynogra : I know, but I need to get it working for a demonstration of virtualization on the A917:50
Martynogra : Rejected or not ...17:50
ograthen you likely need to maintain your own kernel as well17:50
MartynBecause OpenVZ is the Path of Least Resistance .. unless you have a suggestion for a better container solution?17:50
Martynogra : I already do ...  the Versatile2 is anything but supported...17:51
ograwhats versatile2 ?17:51
Martynogra : Quad core a9 platform from ARM .. I showed one off at UDS17:51
Martynnow generally available17:51
ograah, you call it versatile ?17:51
* persia can't find the bug17:51
MartynThat's it's final name "Versatile2"17:51
Martyn(our internal codename for it is 'crandall')17:52
ograi like the internal one more :)17:52
Martynpersia : If you happen to come across it, ping me : martin@smooth-stone.com17:52
ograVersatile makes me thing of qemu which makes me think of underpowered17:52
persia"Versatile2" is too easy to confuse with the qemu target.17:52
persiaMartyn: I'm not likely to, since I didn't find it in a search.17:52
Martynpersia : The QEMU target is a simulation of /real/ hardware, called versatile :)17:53
ograMartyn, which is underpowered as well :)17:53
MartynThere are various models over time .. Versatile PB, PBX, EB ...17:53
Martyn(EB is the current generation -- Cortex-A9)17:53
Martynogra : hey, don't scoff at a 400MHz quad core processor.   It's pretty snazzy17:53
ograheh, ok ok17:53
Martynogra : And I've already got another, faster platform to play with now too -- tegra217:54
ograi'm waiting for the 1GHz quad cores17:54
ograi'd love a tegra217:54
ograits the future !17:54
Martynogra : We're targeting 1.6GHz now.17:54
Martynogra : If Global Foundries becomes available to us, the second rev of the chip will be shrunk and probably hit 2.2GHz17:54
* ogra thinks tegra2 will be the direct atom competiotor17:55
persiaMartyn: Based on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-March/thread.html I believe there's a git tree, but not a package.17:55
Martynit's a nice chip, but has it's .. issues.17:55
ograindeed, nvidia built it :)17:55
Martynpersia : Git tree of a valid, running kernel is enough17:55
ograbut i'd be willing to live with that drawback :)17:55
Martynpersia: that would save me -tons- of time17:55
Martynogra : I /need/ 8x PCIe .. and tegra2 doesn't have it17:56
Martynonly 1x and 4x17:56
ograyou should really switch your servers to USB17:56
* ogra ducks17:56
Martynpersia : Looking at the threads, haven't found the mention of openVZ yet17:56
persiaMartyn: Mail Kir for details : I didn't see a git repo listed.17:57
Martyndone already :)17:57
Martynhe has patches available for the overo17:57
persiaThere you go :)17:57
Martyn2.6.27 though17:57
ograMartyn, "OpenVZ kernel for Ubuntu 10.4"17:57
ograids the thread name17:57
persiaMartyn: If you get it all working, toss it in a PPA :)17:57
persiaYes, PPAs don't build for armel, but it means that anyone can build it easily from your source.17:58
Who_rcn-ee: are you there? I've got a sound-on-igep question (I have no sound from aplay, but can by piping to /dev/dsp) and I'm making very little headway with just my head and Google.17:59
Martynpersia : You got it18:00
persiaMartyn: Thanks.18:00
Martynpersia : although if it's integrated into Lenny, would I still have to build a PPA?  (it's upstream at that point)18:00
Martynojn: You around?18:01
Martyn(we really need a messaging bot on channel :) )18:01
persiaMartyn: If it's in Lenny, people can grab from there and build, so it doesn't matter.18:01
persiaMartyn: email?18:01
MartynOH ..18:01
Martynheh .. no, because I don't have everyone's email on channel18:02
Martynthere used to be a note-server capability on chanserv ... you could leave someone a sticky note that would be displayed when they next came on channel18:02
Martynsort of like:18:02
Martynchanserv, tell <recipient> <message>18:02
ogradoesnt that still work ?18:02
=== ramana is now known as ramana-away
Martynhowever it's long gone...18:03
ograthough its nickserv i think18:03
persiaOne can use /ms for that, I thnk18:03
ogra /msg memoserv help ;)18:04
persia"/ms help" works18:05
ogra /msg MemoServ SEND Martyn "get me a tegra2"18:05
persia"/ms send Martyn" is *shorter* and *easier* :p18:06
ogratsk ... you embedded folks18:06
persiaMe?  Embedded?  No.  I happen to like 3.5-4" laptops, but I want full features.18:07
MartynOh!  We have a msgserv again!18:13
MartynI had no idea :)18:13
Martynme? Embedded?18:13
* Martyn points to the mid-sized tower with a Tegra2 mini-ITX board 18:14
MartynIt's got 2 sata drives, a DVD burner, but is using the integrated graphics .. and a whole -2GB- of memory18:14
Martynembedded my buttocks...18:14
persiaPrecisely.  ARM != embedded.18:15
=== ramana-away is now known as ramana
Who_ogra (et al - anyone who will know): are there plans to change the build scripts for some packages in the arm repositories so they make 'more sense' on ARM - such as specifying EGL as or XEGL as the clutter backend?19:08
Who_sorry - that should have been to ogra_cmpc, I guess ^19:09
persiaAre we sure that makes more sense for arbitrary hardware solutions?19:10
persiaI'd much prefer not to align "armel" and "embedded" in any way.19:10
Who_persia: interesting. do you know of any armel devices with full OpenGL support (just asking, not suggesting there aren't!)?19:13
Who_persia: I guess though that there'd be no harm in a 'clutter-backend-egl' package or equivalent19:13
persiaI know of armel devices with PCIe slots.19:14
persiaGetting full OpenGL there is just a matter of driver testing.19:14
Who_persia: and armel drivers for the cards?19:14
persiaI also stuffed some DisplayLink drivers in the archive for lucid, for which I hear there are plans to grow OpenGL support upstream.  That's USB, and arch-independent.19:15
Who_persia: okie, sounds like changing the build isn't ideal19:15
persiaWho_: Why not?  No good reason any of the existing opensource drivers can't be ported.19:15
persiaWho_: Well, maybe building twice and making two flavours of a binary is useful.19:15
Who_persia: Sorry - I should be more clear - I was agreeing with you that making the default packages more 'embedded' didn't make sense19:16
persiaThat's just tricky, and it's important to identify which packages make sense for that, and how much work.19:16
Who_but I think it would be helpful for people like me if there were some more embedded-target style packages built19:16
Who_persia: and I guess you also then need to have some (likely non OS) graphics libraries on the build system to be able to compile?19:17
persiaRight, that's why I say that in some cases, two flavours may make sense.19:17
persiaI'm not sure I understand that last question.19:17
Who_persia: My understanding is that in order to build Clutter with, for example, an EGL backend, you would need to have EGL development headers on the system - are there Open Source headers that you can link against, and then still get hw accelerated performance on systems that have hardware drivers?19:19
persiaBut I think the real solution for X is to have a more pluggable GL library, so that various libraries can register the ability to do various functions, using a GPU, CPU, DSP, etc. (whatever hardware happens to be available).19:20
persiaOh.  I have no idea if there are open-source EGL headers available.19:20
Who_persia: seems so http://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/19:26
persiaIt's probably too late for lucid, but we ought be able to get that stuff into the next release.19:26
Who_persia: sounds sweet19:41
Who_persia: I made sound work on my IGEP, but the process was a bit... confusing... I'm not entirely sure I should have needed to do what I had to do (run .snddevices from the alsa-driver source package on the arm) - is it worth raising as a bug, or is it too device specific?19:42
Who_persia: more specifically, I made aplay work. Pulseaudio is still unhappy19:42
persiaIt's worth filing as a bug.  If you're not using a distro kernel, and it looks like a kernel thing, don't be too surprised if it gets rejected.19:44
Who_persia: I _think_ it's a kernel thing - I don't know where the line between kernel and userspace is when it comes to alsa. I am using the kernel sources from the board manufacturere19:46
persiaIf you want help with investigation, file a bug :)19:46
persiaWorst case someone tells you it's your kernel.19:46
=== ramana is now known as ramana-away
Who_persia: on further investigation, it seems udev is at fault, as it is supposed to create these devices. any new thoughts?20:07
persiaIf it's udev, file a bug.20:08
persiaBut udev mostly relies on kernel events, so it might be a kernel issue or a udev rules issue.  Hard to say without looking closely.20:08
=== ramana-away is now known as ramana
=== ramana is now known as ramana-away
=== ramana-away is now known as ramana
=== ramana is now known as ramana-away
andruki followed the guide at http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu page and im getting "Unhandled fault: external abort on non-linefetch (0x1018) at 0x40..." errors on booting my Beagleboard rev C4.  im not new to coding, but im new to kernel debugging...help?23:46
persiaUnfortunately, the best person to help you is rcn-ee, who tends to be idle at this time of day.23:49
rcn-eesweet timing.. just walked in after work...23:50
persiaWonderful :)23:50
rcn-eeandruk, those errors are annoying, but safe to ignore..23:50
rcn-eeaka i haven't debugged to figure out what it was, but it doesn't seem to affect anything.. ;)23:51
rcn-eepersia, just noticed this last night: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/TopicBranches  your kernel guys are going to be busy. ;)23:53
persiaso they say :)23:54
persiarcn-ee: Feel free to jump into #ubuntu-kernel if you want to help push that effort.23:54
rcn-eepersia, of course.. ;) already queied my first patch https://code.launchpad.net/~beagleboard-kernel/+junk/lucid-ti-omap23:55
rcn-eestill need the beagle/iegp2 to boot before i open my mouth on ubuntu-kernel. ;)23:56

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