kwwiizniavre, dashua, psyke83: I think we should start a wiki page with info on themeing using murrine00:10
kwwiisound good?00:10
kwwiinobody else has info on it00:10
kwwiiCimi thinks it is a good idea, he just doesn't have the time to do it00:10
dashuaYeah, sounds good00:15
dashuaAh you removed the purple tooltips?00:17
kwwiidashua: nope, I haven't changed a thing so far00:51
kwwiiask me tomorrow00:51
dashuaAh :)00:51
* dashua is digging aubergine00:51
psyke83kwwii: I assume you're leaving in a min, but anyway, the wiki page is a good idea00:51
kwwiiyeah, indeed00:52
kwwiidashua: it's killer, so many possibilities00:52
dashuakwwii, Absolutely00:52
kwwiiboah, 2am...time for bed00:53
psyke83nite nite00:54
dashuaNite mate00:54
dashuapsyke83, You mind testing my branch and making sure the text issue you were reporting was fixed.00:55
dashuaWhen you get a chance.00:55
psyke83dashua: will do00:56
dashuaA lot of the Dust code was in Radiance and it really wasn't needed00:56
kwwiidashua: indeed00:56
psyke83the lazy feckers ;)00:57
kwwiiI tried to remove a bunch but was somewhat afraid of the consequences00:57
kwwiioh well, night all00:57
dashuaI cleaned it up, but when the masses get it, there are sure to be issues =/00:57
psyke83the theme I was working on for fun, I based on Human simply because I wasn't familiar with all the Radience/Ambience/Dust stuff00:57
kwwiihehe, naturally my desire to hide the fact that I started with Dust is a mojor problem :P00:57
kwwiiI just like to take the piss out of people00:58
* kwwii listens to Hawkwind Silver Machine and goes to bed00:58
dashuapsyke83, Looks good,  A good transition from Human to the new themes00:59
dashuaI like the use of purple00:59
dashuakwwii, \m/00:59
psyke83dashua: thanks... perhaps the orange needs toning down (but I was deliberately going for a non-monochromatic look)01:01
dashuaYeah, it's glaring at first, but soothing after some use01:02
* dashua listens to Rogue Wave01:02
psyke83dashua: light-themes-refresh contains the text fix?01:11
dashuaIt should.01:12
dashuaUnless I missed it.01:12
psyke83maybe we were talking about a different issue, it's not fixed01:12
psyke83just a second and I'll give you the line (I think it's easier if you just fix in your branch rather than I create one ;))01:13
psyke83ok, you partially fixed it01:14
psyke83all you need to do now is to make sure that in the "default" style section, the text[insenstive[ and fg[insensitive] are equal01:15
dashuaOk thx01:15
psyke83if not, the inactive text of ComboBox will look different to every other widget01:15
psyke83(see twf)01:15
dashuaGotcha. On Radiance, seems ok01:17
psyke83ok... I didn't check radiance ;)01:17
dashuaAh Ambiance01:17
psyke83the theme still has some bugs with text, however01:19
psyke83if you click on the "Customize theme" button in Appearances and change the fg text for text boxes to something else, it's not consistent in the theme01:20
psyke83one sec01:21
dashuaI gotta roll psyke83, just leave anything you find or point me to your fixes.01:26
dashuaThx again01:26
psyke83yeah I'm too tired to find it now, will do tomorrow :)01:26
psyke83see ya01:27
vishkwwii: we need this update for the accelerators patch > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588554#c5406:12
ubottuGnome bug 588554 in menu "only show the accelerator when pressing alt" [Enhancement,Reopened]06:12
vishkwwii: not sure who to point it to.. you mentioned this earlier, currently you are the best person i know ;)06:14
zniavregood morning07:34
l3onkwwii: are you there ?09:58
kwwiil3on: hey11:16
l3onkwwii: Hi.. I sent you a email yesterday... Have you received it ?11:20
l3onIt was about light-themes11:21
kwwiiI don't think so, let me check11:21
kwwiihrm, I think it got lost in my spam filter11:21
kwwiiI don't have it11:22
l3onmmm ... damin:11:22
kwwiil3on: sorry11:22
l3onTo: yournick@ubuntu.com11:22
l3onSubject: Ambiance theme refactored11:22
kwwiinope, it is not in my inbox11:22
kwwiitry sending it to myNick @sinecera dot de11:23
l3onmmm.. damn, I can't send mail :( Problem is on my way.. Well.. I'll resend you mail with gmail. Just a second :)11:24
kwwiigreat, thanks11:26
kwwiilooks nice!11:30
l3onkwwii: sent11:34
kwwiihrm, still haven't got it11:52
artnayhttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/16-things-that-could-be-improved-in.html many good points gathered onto one page11:52
kwwiiartnay: themeing wise the only good info I find there is the bub about radiance making the indicators too spaced out11:54
kwwiiwhich I will fix today11:55
artnaykwwii: great, that has actually bugged me on my 1024x768 virtual machine11:58
thorwilBenjamin doesn't understand Fitt's law11:59
lassegulnice article11:59
artnaystill many (all?) of those would count as paper cuts11:59
lassegulwhats the thoughts behind the default font size? as far as i can tell, it really does look much slicker at 8px12:01
lassegulor even 9px. looks sharper12:01
kwwiihey lassegul12:04
kwwiilassegul: I think that is very dependent on which font is used and the screen it is used on12:04
lassegulhi kwwii whats up. yeah, you might be right, but im on windows xp now and comparing it to ubuntu it looks huge!12:05
lassegulubuntu that is12:05
zniavreproportion of rhythmbox applet is depend what you are listening ,check this >http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5152/capturemr.png12:06
kwwiiwell, until now ther ehas also not been a decent font for linux12:06
lassegulkwwii: well, make the best of what you have? ;)12:06
artnaylassegul: I prefer ttf-droid/undotum as 9px12:06
lassegulzniavre: that didnt look good at all12:06
lassegulyeah droid is nice12:06
lassegulwe should steal it!12:06
kwwiilassegul: or make something new ;-)12:07
kwwiidroid was designed for vertical small screens12:07
kwwiiso it is very condensed and high12:07
lassegulbut oh so clear and crisp, its like sans, just sexed up a lot12:08
artnayI actually sent some feedback to maag after reading mark's blogging. and they actually fixed their misspelling tyeface on their page ;)12:08
artnaylassegul: droid-sans?12:09
lassegulthat volume indicator bug has already been fixed if im seeing this correctly12:09
lassegulartnay: dejavu sry12:09
artnaykwwii: does the new font already an official name? or will the name be announced later on?12:10
kwwiiartnay: it will be announced later, no name so far12:10
artnaylassegul: have you read http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/6-desktop-fonts-to-try-in-ubuntu.html ?12:14
lassegulartnay: yeah, good link. im currently using droid sans, probably at 9px because of my huge screen.12:16
lassegulbut the new desktop font wont be ready til 10.04 right?12:18
kwwiiI don't think so12:18
artnaylassegul: I'm tied between undotum and droind-sans, using 1920x1080 and (on virtual machine) 1024x768. both work well as 9px12:18
lasseguli like the default nokia font. i wish they would release it12:21
* kwwii is not feeling well, going to lay down for a bit12:22
lassegulbring the vodka, ill fixx u right up12:22
lassegulwow, that sounded wrong. *it'll not I'll12:31
vishmeh , that article is just a bug list...12:32
vishthe only actual problem is probably the last one about the memenu not being obvious enough12:33
zniavrei never had rhythmbox searching plugins i do not understand this post12:41
vishzniavre: it is just a post of a misinformed regular ubuntu user , as are most of OMG's blogs ;p12:43
vishnot to be taken seriously , but to be treated as "Ubuntu Tabloid"12:44
zniavrei saw into gtk theme in gnome-look somebody adding > GtkToolbar::window-dragging= 1 < this is not working at all , it will in the futur ?12:45
vishzniavre: GtkMenuBar::window-dragging = 112:46
vishonly the menubar is supposed to work , never heard the toolbar  allowing dragging12:46
lassegulvish: isnt that a little arrogant? most of these issues are serious enough. i would never let software leave my table at work with these kinds of issues.12:48
zniavremenubar i knew it since few days i was wondering for the toolbar12:49
lassegul(i do QA)12:49
vishlassegul: i didnt say it is not a problem ;)12:49
lassegulk :)12:50
vishlassegul: the mp3 problem is due to copyrights[or whatever]  , it cant be included in default Ubuntu OS and be distributed as free , and not sure how he is getting the bug even after installing gstreamer plugins[good/bad/ugly]12:52
vishthe button position is highly debatable , it is mostly user prefs and what the user is used to.. [I dont use it] but claiming it as a design bug and quoting poll on  blog is just silly12:53
vishlassegul: preferences menu is a known issue and it _wont_ be fixed for lucid just because it cant ;) [yet] but there are plans to fix it for gnome312:55
vishlassegul: padding/alignment/memenu pic and the rest are just bugs in dev version, which are already being worked on .. his comments in reply to jono are highly rude/arrogant.. which is what makes it more difficult to understand the reason for the post12:58
lassegulvish: jono? didnt catch that.13:01
vishlassegul: read the comments section , there is a huge dialogue going on there ;)13:02
lasseguli dont think you can call the button positioning highly debateable anymore though :P13:02
lassegulits kinda one sided13:02
vishlassegul: i dont use it , it is just old prefs[people wont like to change for now reason] , but i still dont understand why it was changed , hence highly debatable , there _might_ be a reason13:04
lassegulvish: brb.13:05
artnayonly rational reason I can come up with is the position of notify-osd13:07
lassegulartnay: well, i guess u can call uniqueness a positive thing too.13:12
lassegulvish: i dont get why the design team dont share their reasoning. ivanka's blog post is like an introduction to the reason for the change, but it stops prematurely.13:13
lassegulguys, have u tested this? its awesome: http://mrdoob.com/lab/javascript/harmony/13:14
thorwilvish: i wouldn't call that rude. however, the believe in common sense and the value of polls is sad.13:14
vishthorwil: well , it is basically an unnecessary argument.. pointless and doesnt help in any way13:30
vishmrdoob , havent seen him in a long while ;)13:32
lassegulvish: it makes you feel like quite the drawing artist13:33
lasseguleven without a stylys13:33
vishyeah , pretty neat..13:33
thorwiliainfarrell: http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/ubuntus_circle_of_friends_gets_smaller.php13:37
iainfarrellhey thorwil13:38
iainfarrellyeah, we saw that13:38
thorwilgood :)13:38
thorwiliainfarrell: btw, still waiting for a an SVG file of the logo(-type)13:39
iainfarrellYes, I know - I'm waiting for it too ;)13:39
iainfarrellwe're not final but as soon as we are I'll let you know13:40
vishhehe , 0.65% who use the site use UbuntuOS ;p13:41
lasseguloops, caps13:43
vishah , so Ubuntu is even smaller.. but the most interesting is the ratio of designers who use Mac :)13:44
vishthorwil: probably the original inspiration to both ?  >  http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/designer/hans_reichel/14:02
vishfrom the comments ^14:02
vishhuh , more > http://www.flickr.com/photos/fountaineer/278176955/in/set-72157594342848887/14:03
kwwiithe guy from dalton maag who is working on this responded to that thread14:05
kwwiiit is not a copy of anything14:06
kwwiidalton maag is one of the top font companies in the world14:06
vishkwwii: yeah saw that too , hehe , "now that the secret is out"14:06
kwwiivish: well, that info was also in the announcement but I don't think anyone read that far down14:07
vishkwwii: yeah , people seem to only have focused on the pretty pictures ;)14:08
vishmeh , how many truly unique fonts can one really make... at some point there is bound to be a near similarity unless we change the letters entirely ;p14:10
artnaykwwii: was it? I saw mention of maag only at mark's blog entry14:13
kwwiiartnay: well, it was somewhere14:14
thorwilnot taking any sides, just found that interesting14:18
* thorwil gets coffee14:21
zniavrekwwii,  what is the fix for bug #527267 please ?15:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 527267 in light-themes "Application Indicators too wide" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52726715:32
kwwiizniavre: the radiance theme had an xthickness value set to 415:34
vishkwwii: in ambience , when a drop-down menu or a combo menu is opened , the menu is dark , while the box was actually light , seems kinda odd doesnt it?15:34
kwwiivish: yeah, I have thought about that a lot15:34
vishbut from the menubar , it seems to work well , as the menu is also dark15:34
kwwiivish: the way things are now is the intended design15:34
kwwiibut I have thought about changing it15:34
kwwiiluckily I am sooo busy fixing bugs that I never get around to testing itou15:35
kwwiiit out15:35
kwwii :-)15:35
vishwould be nice if that was changed ;p15:35
* vish files bug , probably the only way to get kwwii's attention ;)15:35
kwwiivish: well, there is one thing to say about consistency - having all menus the same color is probably better15:36
kwwiivish: lol, along with the 75 other bugs15:36
kwwiivish: make sure that there is not one open already please15:36
kwwiithere are a *lot* of duplicates15:36
kwwiiI think I will end up spending an entire day finding duplicates15:36
kwwiiin fact, if anyone wants to help, please go through the bugs are mark duplicates15:36
vishkwwii: yeah,  i thinking of doing them15:37
vishtoo many dups :/15:37
kwwiiit's crazy15:37
vishkwwii: serves you right!  you had to go and make a new theme ;p15:38
zniavrekwwii,  thank you15:39
kwwiivish: lol, I can only blame myself15:43
kwwiiwell, myself and the rest of the design team15:43
kwwiiso does anyone want to help writing up a wiki page describing themeing with murrine?15:45
vishkwwii: wouldnt a link to http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes , be sufficient?15:50
kwwiivish: no, that doesn't explain all the bits unique to murrine15:52
kwwiiwell, my lucid computer just died during a dist-upgrade15:53
kwwiiguess I can spend the rest of today fixing it!15:53
kwwiispeak of the devil15:53
Cimioh, so you were speaking about me :P15:59
kwwii16:45 < kwwii> so does anyone want to help writing up a wiki page describing  themeing with murrine?16:00
kwwiinot you directly, but your work ;-)16:00
Cimiahaha :P16:00
kwwiiunfortunately my computer just stopped working during an upgrade, going to have to fix that first16:00
LcawteHi Artwork People16:12
kwwiihi Lcawte16:18
* kwwii owes dashua a beer or 3 :-)16:23
trijntjeHi all, are you guy's responsible for the network-manager icon?16:37
kwwiithat would be me, I guess16:38
troy_sthorwil: How are you doing?16:39
trijntjekwwii: well, my problem is this: The documentation mentions this icon, but it seems to keep changing. First several times for Karmic, so that the correct description didnt make it into the release16:41
trijntjenow for Lucid I noticed today it has changed again, and I was wondering whether it will be changing again any time soon16:41
kwwiitrijntje: I assume you mean the ones in the panel, right?16:41
trijntjekwwii: yes, the applet, sorry16:41
kwwiierm, it should not have changed today...it changed more than a week ago16:42
kwwiiit should be a series of rounded waves going up16:42
kwwiithat design will not change anymore16:42
kwwiithe wired icons might though16:42
trijntjekwwii: I was talking about the wired icon in fact16:43
trijntjeis there anywhere I could monitor these changes or find out if any given icon is the final one?16:44
kwwiione second, on the phone16:44
kwwiiok, re16:55
kwwiitrijntje: well, watching the ubuntu-mono icon set would give you a good idea16:56
kwwiitrijntje: and asking me would be really quick ;-)16:56
kwwiitrijntje: I will know more about whether the design will change by midday european time tomorrow16:57
trijntjekwwii: well, I dont want to come bother you every other day to ask if its the final version ;)16:58
trijntjebut ill be back tomorrow or in a few day's to ask again, thanks for your time16:58
kwwiitrijntje: sounds good...you could also send me an email and I can respond if there are changes17:00
kwwiitrijntje: I know we're changing things quite late in the cycle17:00
trijntjekwwii: well, its still before the UI freeze ofcource, and I like the new look17:03
trijntjeso its not all bad ;)17:03
kwwiihehe, cool17:03
vishyay , took down one bug off kwwii's list ;)17:04
vishkwwii: Bug #537374 was caused by the auto-memonics option17:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 537374 in gtk+2.0 "Vertical menu scrolling[with keys] not working , when themes enable gtk-auto-mnemonics" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53737417:04
trijntjeFYI, its bug 44082617:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 440826 in ubuntu-docs "Network Manager LAN icon description doesnt match Karmic" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44082617:04
kwwiitrijntje: cool, I will subscribe myself17:05
trijntjekwwii: ok cool, thats easier17:07
kwwiivish: just responded to that17:07
trijntjeopensource is cool, I can just go and ask stuf and people will look into it17:09
kwwiiyou can even push canonical employees around :/17:13
kwwiivish: heya, I heard you saw the purple desktop icon Dan made yesterday17:18
kwwiivish: we should put those in lucid17:18
vishkwwii: k.. you want it done now?17:18
kwwiivish: that would be great, unless you have any other changes you want to wait for17:19
vishkwwii: ok. fixed a couple of other bugs too ... i'll upload to the packagers ppa?17:19
kwwiivish: yes, please do!17:19
kwwiioh, in case anyone hasn't seen it, I suggest testing ttps://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/elnmibmpefhmfgphdphdncoogpbfmlbp17:26
* vish lends kwwii a "h"17:27
kwwiidashua: hey, just looking into your changes now...do you ever sleep?17:32
dashuaHehe, no.17:32
dashuaI can't stop.17:32
dashuaThose fixes are in my branch from already.  I;ll change the menuitem to 017:33
dashuaCleaned a lot of cruft and more fixes :)17:33
kwwiithanks for cleaning it up, it was getting quite messy17:34
dashuaLooking pretty good now17:35
kwwiidashua: the purple selection was turned down17:37
kwwiiand the progress bars do need to be shiny17:39
dashuaI added them back or least I thought so17:40
kwwiimaybe I should get the latest from bzr17:40
kwwiiI branched a several hours ago17:40
kwwiiI'm heading out now for dinner, when I get back I'll look into it some more17:41
dashuaOk have fun17:41
vishkwwii: pushed humanity update to packagers18:03
thorwiltroy_s: hi! demolished an old summer house18:31
troy_sthorwil: Sounds like fun.18:31
thorwiltroy_s: nice way to let off some steam. but now my back muscles ache. almost all of them18:31
thorwiltroy_s: what have you been up to, lately?18:32
troy_sthorwil: Trying to finish up three projects.18:32
troy_sthorwil: Tad painful.18:32
troy_sthorwil: You might want to tell B to shup.18:33
thorwiltroy_s: i'm terrible at managing parallel projects, so i usually end up pulling through one at a time18:33
troy_sWell I can't. They are all gigs so they need to be finished.18:34
troy_sthorwil: Just the nature of the beast unfortunately.18:34
thorwiltroy_s: i know what you mean, but i'd have to be diplomatic, as otherwise things just get more complicated18:35
troy_sthorwil: LOL18:35
troy_sthorwil: Well ... to be frank... putting "I did lots and lots of this stuff in highschool" just makes you look like a toolbag.18:35
troy_sthorwil: Hate to be brutal on that, but ... ugh... not helping.18:35
thorwiltroy_s: see, you could tell him outright18:36
thorwiltroy_s: no keen on having a conflict where i have nothing to win, only something to lose18:37
troy_sthorwil: Agree... which is why I figure you might be more diplomatic than I.18:37
troy_sthorwil: There needs to be more _Why_ before we can get to _What_.18:37
thorwiltroy_s: vish should take care of that18:37
thorwiltroy_s: that would have the advantage that vish isn't me or you :>18:38
troy_sthorwil: It is a point that is completely missed. I saw him relink to the Droid thing. It is clear that there is disagreement there (albeit through some sort of condescending tone, of which I'd step to that plate any day if he seriously wants to engage in a conversation)18:38
troy_sthorwil: But the main problem is that it is _Why_ - a point entirely missed by him.18:38
troy_sthorwil: We can all roll dice and toss out random crap, but we still don't have a why. With the whole phrasing of a goal (albeit missing the obvious _Who_) we can at least get _some_ clump of crap off the table.18:39
troy_sthorwil: It's the _Why_. Bringhurst nails that - why choose a face? It's a valid question.18:40
thorwiltroy_s: are you preaching to the choir again?18:40
troy_sthorwil: (And of course, in our case, we have glyph coverage as a nasty constraint - but that is likely something that a community should be very adept at fleshing out given the decision to roll in a given direction.)18:40
troy_sthorwil: No, trying to get you to make it clear that he should be looking at why before he starts randomly tossing links out to disagree with.18:41
troy_sthorwil: I am well aware as to where you sit on the matter. ;)18:41
thorwiltroy_s: you may have the best intentions and i may agree on everything that really matters, still i'm not your agent ;)18:42
troy_sthorwil: LOL18:43
troy_sthorwil: Sorry, I know that you are already working over there and have an ear.18:43
troy_sthorwil: Jerk.18:43
thorwilwhat? 8-[]18:44
troy_sSorry... jerkface.18:44
troy_sthorwil: Anything interesting been a happenin'?18:44
thorwiltroy_s: http://deamillion.com/ introduced herself on the mailing list18:48
* troy_s clicking.18:48
troy_sthorwil: Hold on... Flash is inducing a seizure.18:48
troy_sthorwil: Ugh. Ok... I'm sure there is work there somewhere. I'll be buggered if I can flail through that Flash mess though.18:49
troy_sthorwil: Something doesn't computer.18:51
troy_sthorwil: You can't get a BFa in two years for one.18:51
troy_sthorwil: Any good chats happening on the list?18:52
thorwiltroy_s: no, it's rather depressing18:53
troy_sthorwil: Well that stinks. Can you speak German?18:53
thorwiltroy_s: dude, that's my mother tongue18:53
troy_sthorwil: Well I could have made the erroneous "YOU CAN SPEAK GERMAN RIGHT?" assumption... I erred on not doing that... let me find a link.18:54
troy_sthorwil: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/distributionsvielfalt/18:55
troy_sthorwil: I can't really read it except via translate18:55
thorwilyes, you could have, but your are the careful and elaborate troy_s  ;)18:55
troy_sthorwil: But it seems that there are some pretty damn good discussions going on regarding the diversity versus monolithic approach.18:55
troy_sthorwil: Sort of refreshing to read (as I hobbled through it via awkward translate)18:56
troy_sthorwil: A friend tipped me off to the discussion as it was relevant to the great 'Who' debate.18:56
troy_sthorwil: I'm certain there is much nuance in the language that I miss though... such is the fate of a unilingular idiot.18:56
thorwilwow, that svg is insane18:57
troy_sthorwil: I _think_ that is the thread... should be about who for an audience and discussing diversity of distributions / appliances.18:57
troy_sthorwil: Picks up page 2 or 3 methinks.18:58
thorwiltroy_s: yes, german is full of nuances, many of which are actually all about making fun of english -only speakers ;)18:58
troy_sthorwil: I had a chat recently with a friend... on the nuance of "ideal" versus "idealism"18:58
troy_sthorwil: Which is a very subtle one in terms of one being relatively 'positive' for a connotation versus the implicit negativity of "idealist" for example.19:00
troy_sthorwil: He was pointing out that the rough German equivalents (and again - only his opinion of course) were more or less quite neutral.19:00
thorwiltroy_s: so far that thread is just being-able-to-chose-what-suits-you-best vs cost-of-fragmentation19:01
troy_sthorwil: Yeah... it picks up.19:02
troy_sthorwil: It evolves into the idea of tackling based on audience needs if I remember.19:02
thorwilcontinues with the cost of having to choose vs just doubting that that effect is real19:03
troy_sthorwil: I think Schwartz's thesis pops up there.19:04
thorwilyes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMV4PIEIKY419:04
thorwil"why would someone faced with 40 kinds of ice cream buy a pizza instead"19:05
thorwilhttp://forum.ubuntuusers.de/post/2391682/ brings up the potential to target many different audiences19:09
thorwiland says that the Ubuntu approach of trying to be one for all would be not very clever19:10
thorwiltroy_s: someone arguing that a 3d artist will likely have other needs that a sound-engineer and why should they use the same distribution?19:14
troy_sthorwil: I think that is a legit discussion.19:14
thorwiltroy_s: seen such arguments before. ignores the cost of rebooting for the poor people who have several interests ;)19:14
troy_sthorwil: I think this likely boils down to constraints - something people don't think about much. As in - At which point does a design decision detract from the overarching direction / audience need? We could probably spot Cos' kernel tweaks for desktop use in opposition to what was already in main etc.19:15
troy_sthorwil: I'd think that you could twiddle things one way or another, but you have to think that say - an appliance built for gaming outperforms an appliance built for word processing or sound editing etc.19:16
troy_sthorwil: Can we more greatly satisfy an audience's need with a greater degree of precision?19:16
thorwiltroy_s: another one studied a bit of sociology and mentions that people need "marks" to get together and interact19:17
thorwilthat reminds me of people who will go so far as to fake religious beliefs to be able to participate in an attractive community19:19
troy_sthorwil: It is interesting.19:20
troy_sthorwil: I thought the discussion was pretty on point and didn't just do the knee jerk "ITS ABOUT EVERYONE!1!!!!! ZOMGYOUARE AN IDIOTOOTT!!222!!!"19:20
thorwiltroy_s: guess it's a big reason for the success of ubuntu that social aspects are handled consciously. other projects focus on technical matters first and a social group _might_ build up19:25
troy_sthorwil: I think it is a social aspect of not treating everyone outside of the 733t as donkeys.19:25
troy_sthorwil: That's not exactly rocket surgery though.19:25
thorwiltroy_s: kinda sucks that sometimes it does seem like everyone outside of certain circles is in fact a donkey :>19:26
troy_sthorwil: That said, the core of the design problem here - I [NEED | DESIRE] Red, you [NEED | DESIRE] Blue. You cannot solve that no matter how hard you try or clever you think you are.19:26
thorwiltroy_s: surely the solution is Violet!19:27
troy_sthorwil: (Grossly simplifying the matter, but the reality is that there are likely a number of facets that are that very RED / BLUE posit)19:27
troy_sthorwil: Exactly. I could see the window decoration going there.19:27
troy_sthorwil: And even if the _optimal_ practical solution is one way, is it tempered against the contextual solution (EG: Window decorations on left or right in light of the context of imitation?)19:28
thorwilwow, a reply to the ubuntu-art list only took about 11 hours to get there19:32
troy_sthorwil: Have you been following this? http://blog.cberger.net/2010/03/02/the-difficult-choice-of-removing-features/19:35
thorwiltroy_s: yes19:35
troy_sthorwil: Good stuff.19:35
troy_sthorwil: Hopefully they can execute. The dissent is obvious.19:36
thorwilreally have to do something about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Header?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=banner.png19:47
zniavreho gnome-look is down20:55
troy_szniavre: Whoa there's a loss. ;)21:13
thorwilgood night!21:16
kwwiizniavre: if gnome-look goes down and you really need something from it, let me know21:49
kwwiithe guy who runs all the -look sites is a friend ;-)21:49
kwwiithey all run on his server at home :P21:49
zniavreho no worries thank you21:49
zniavreiasked something to a theme creator i wanted to see if he answered but it can wait tomorow21:50
zniavretomorow will be a great day for us we will buy a brand new old-school mobil-home21:52
kwwiiwow, cool!21:56
zniavrei can't wait ...21:56
kwwiizniavre: that looks seriously cool23:35
kwwiivery nice23:35
kwwiitime for sleep23:36

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!