[05:38] <ferry> EXIT
[05:38] <ferry> exit
[06:41] <humphreybc> hi everyone!
[06:43] <godbyk> hey, humphreybc.
[06:43] <humphreybc> ello
[06:43] <godbyk> Welcome back.  Have fun discussing Ubuntu stuff today? :)
[06:52] <humphreybc> godbyk, oh yes... did you see the stuff on omgubuntu?
[06:52] <humphreybc> had a phone call with jono
[06:52] <godbyk> yeah, I saw that.
[06:52] <humphreybc> big discussion :)
[06:52] <godbyk> have a nice chat with jono? :)
[06:53] <humphreybc> yep, our chats are always nice!
[06:53] <godbyk> I enjoyed the sparring in the omgubuntu comments.
[06:53] <humphreybc> He believes that most people are against the button placement only due to the fact their scared of change
[06:53] <humphreybc> they're*
[06:53] <godbyk> I think that's probably true.
[06:53] <humphreybc> I tried to explain some actual reasons why having them on the left is a usability problem
[06:53] <godbyk> Though I wouldn't say they're "scared" of change.
[06:54] <godbyk> People just don't like change in general.
[06:54] <humphreybc> just resistant to it
[06:54] <godbyk> right
[06:54] <humphreybc> So have you got an opinion, as a PhD student in HCI?
[06:54] <humphreybc> If you do, I think you should write your thoughts up somewhere so the design team can see it
[06:55] <godbyk> I don't have a well-formed opinion yet.  So far I've only seen screenshots, I haven't had a chance to try it out.
[06:55] <humphreybc> righto
[06:55] <godbyk> I msg'd mpt on irc earlier, but he went offline shortly afterward. I think I hit him up just as he was getting off work.
[06:55] <godbyk> I'd like to hear from the design team what their thoughts on it are.
[06:55] <godbyk> Is it just a visual change?
[06:55] <humphreybc> not sure
[06:56] <humphreybc> I'm trying to find out the same
[06:56] <godbyk> Are there usability problems they're trying to solve?
[06:56] <humphreybc> there's this: http://www.ivankamajic.com/?p=281
[06:56] <godbyk> Do they think having the controls on the left is an improvement in some way?
[06:56] <humphreybc> But Ivanka doesn't really tell us much
[06:56] <godbyk> That blog post doesn't really say anything.
[06:56] <godbyk> It asks a lot of great questions...
[06:56] <humphreybc> If they could be clearer with their reasons for the switch, then I think it would be a bit more useful
[06:56] <godbyk> ... but provides no answers.
[06:56] <humphreybc> Yeah I know, but I'm emailing the design team as we speak
[06:56] <humphreybc> :)
[06:57] <godbyk> You should CC me on it. I'd like to hear about it, too. :)
[06:57] <humphreybc> sure
[06:57] <humphreybc> I need to find Ivanka's email though
[06:57] <humphreybc> or the Canonical design team mailing list
[06:58] <godbyk> https://launchpad.net/~canonical-ux
[06:58] <humphreybc> oh
[06:58] <humphreybc> banshee, why have you crashed
[06:59] <humphreybc> no mailing list though
[06:59] <humphreybc> probably because they all work in an office
[07:00] <godbyk> They have an internal (private) mailing list.
[07:00] <humphreybc> yah
[07:01] <humphreybc> the feedback on my article on omgubuntu was nice
[07:01] <humphreybc> lots of people think it's a good article :)
[07:06] <godbyk> Yeah, it looked like it was well-received.
[07:10] <kklimonda> humphreybc: what article?
[07:10] <kklimonda> there was this one I didn't like yesterday ;}
[07:11] <humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/16-things-that-could-be-improved-in.html
[07:12] <kklimonda> humphreybc: right - I was going to give the author "Captain Obvious" award for some of those things ;)
[07:14] <humphreybc> haha
[07:14] <humphreybc> :P
[07:14] <humphreybc> they're not obvious to most people until you spell them out
[08:56]  * humphreybc is typing one hand due to ice cream consumption
[08:56] <godbyk> So how can we make it super easy for newbies to contribute to the manual?
[08:57] <humphreybc> 1) step by step guide
[08:57] <humphreybc> wait, what timeframe are we thinking here?
[08:57] <humphreybc> long term planning or get people in now?
[08:57] <godbyk> For instance, when we open it up to omgubuntu readers, how can they contribute without jumping through two dozen hoops?
[08:58] <humphreybc> ok
[08:58] <godbyk> we can't have everyone editing the branch at once.  that'll cause too many conflicts.
[08:58] <humphreybc> so they are mainly going to be bug testing?
[08:58] <godbyk> but having one bug report per misspelled word may be too much, too.
[08:58] <humphreybc> indeed
[08:59] <humphreybc> we need to set up a clear bug reporting guide, and make sure they give us the correct information in the bugs
[08:59] <humphreybc> but to get contributors into the project _now_ we'll need a step by step guide
[08:59] <humphreybc> can we simplify anything?
[09:00] <humphreybc> ie, latex install? SSH key? adding them to the team? most of this is as simple as possible
[09:00] <godbyk> I haven't looked at the wiki lately, but it was a bit scatterbrained.
[09:00] <godbyk> Is all of that in one place, though?
[09:00] <humphreybc> probably not
[09:00] <humphreybc> the wiki needs a big overhaul
[09:00] <godbyk> Is there a Getting Started page that provides step-by-step instructions for doing all that?
[09:00] <humphreybc> i've been meaning to plan it before i overhaul it though
[09:00] <humphreybc> no there isn't
[09:01] <humphreybc> so, what's the first thing we want new contributors to see when they visit our wiki?
[09:01] <godbyk> I'd say a description of our project, status report (how close are we to being done, and where they can download the latest release candidate), and how they can help.
[09:04] <humphreybc> well the progress bar is a pretty simple status report
[09:04] <humphreybc> so the how they can help section, does that have the step-by-step instructions right there?
[09:05] <humphreybc> or does it link to another page with the detailed instructions?
[09:05]  * humphreybc is thinking aloud
[09:05] <humphreybc> we need an etherpad for drawing...
[09:05] <humphreybc> so we can do a cool diagram of the page layouts :)
[09:06] <godbyk> I'd say that the how-I-can-help section has a list of tasks they can pick up.
[09:06] <humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPsimplification
[09:06] <godbyk> each task links to the step-by-step instructions to start that task
[09:07] <humphreybc> okay
[09:07] <humphreybc> that sounds like a plan
[09:08] <humphreybc> I'm writing it up on the etherpad, care to join me?
[09:09] <godbyk> sure. link me!
[09:09] <humphreybc> above!
[09:09] <humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPsimplification
[09:10] <humphreybc> we also need to simplify the header
[09:10] <humphreybc> at the moment it's huge
[09:10] <humphreybc> like, an overwhelming amount of options
[09:10] <humphreybc> 10, in fact
[09:11] <godbyk> And make the logo a bit smaller. :)
[09:11] <humphreybc> yup :)
[09:11] <humphreybc> okay, help me out in the etherpad
[09:22] <komsas> hi godbyk, when I making pdf I get error http://paste.ubuntu.com/393141/
[09:22] <godbyk> You have \menuite and it should be \menuitem
[09:23] <godbyk> (Though it *really* should be \menu)
[09:24] <daker> hi
[09:24] <komsas> oh, so it is problem in translation, going to change it.
[09:25] <godbyk> hey, daker.
[09:27]  * humphreybc nom nom, peanut M&Ms
[09:28] <godbyk> first ice cream and now peanut M&Ms?
[09:29] <humphreybc> yes
[09:29] <humphreybc> i had a cheeseburger before
[09:29] <humphreybc> it IS 10:30pm
[09:29] <godbyk> 3:30 am here.  I'm headed to bed.
[09:29] <godbyk> See ya!
[09:29] <humphreybc> chow!
[09:30]  * humphreybc is so getting one of these for UDS: http://www.zazzle.co.nz/blamepopey_shirt-235522597143235165
[09:33] <daker> i want ti create a new brach for the website
[09:34] <humphreybc> go for it :)
[09:34] <humphreybc> you could just create a new folder in the main branch called "dakar"
[09:34] <humphreybc> "daker"* sorry
[09:37] <daker> but my folder is in /var/www
[09:39] <humphreybc> huh?
[09:39] <humphreybc> you want to branch our website?
[09:39] <humphreybc> so you can work on it?
[09:40] <daker> yeah
[09:43] <humphreybc> just create a new folder under /website in the branch
[09:43] <humphreybc> and copy what you've got there
[09:43] <humphreybc> or you can branch our branch if you want
[09:43] <humphreybc> entirely up to you dude :)
[09:51]  * humphreybc the Ubuntu Manual progress bar is going to look very l33t soon
[13:00] <MenZa> Does anyone have a recently-compiled PDF of the manual they'd be willing to share?
[13:02] <MenZa> Oh nevermind, it's on Launchpad. <_<
[13:04] <MenZa> godbyk: Massive kudos to you for your LaTeX skills. o_o
[14:29] <c7p> hello godbyk are you on?
[18:37] <godbyk> MenZa: You can see the latest builds of all the translations at http://ubuntu-manual.org/builds/
[18:37] <godbyk> It gets updated whenever I happen to remember to run a script.  (So it's not always *the* latest, but it should be relatively close.)
[18:42] <MenZa> godbyk: \o/
[18:45] <ubuntujenkins> eveing all
[18:46] <godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins .
[18:47] <ubuntujenkins> hey godbyk how are you?
[18:48] <godbyk> not too bad. pretty well-rested. :)
[18:48]  * godbyk slept in today.
[18:50] <MenZa> godbyk: Without having looked at the latex source at all (I'm on a Windows, tex-less system currently), have you written a class from scratch, or are you using, say, memoir with a bunch of custom macros?
[18:56] <godbyk> MenZa: Currently we're using a custom class based on book, but I might base it on tufte-book instead.  (Haven't decided yet.)
[18:57] <godbyk> Using tufte-book helps me kill two birds with one stone as I wrote the tufte-book class and it'll give us some of the features we want for free.
[18:57] <godbyk> (That is, the features already coded up in the tufte-book class, so I wouldn't have to copy/paste anything.)
[19:05] <MenZa> godbyk: Ah. I'm not familiar with tufte-book. What's special about it?
[19:06] <MenZa> I've been working with LaTeX for around four years now, but the most major hackery I've done is with \titlingpage in memoir :)
[19:06] <godbyk> Not too much, but it does a lot of work to put things in the margin (sidenotes).
[19:06] <godbyk> http://code.google.com/p/tufte-latex/
[19:17] <MenZa> Yeah, I've missed that when working with it
[19:45]  * ubuntujenkins 41 screenshots in the manual so far
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> night all