[04:15] <claydoh> so is it kde sc 4.4, or Plasma Desktop 4.4?, if I am confused, then I am sure the general populace will be confused
[04:15] <claydoh> http://community.kde.org/Promo/Distribution_Communication
[04:17] <claydoh> tho 'kde plasma desktop' doesn't sound too bad, but it implies something *non* plasma as a product somewhere :)
[04:30] <ScottK> claydoh: KDE SC 4.4 is fine.  Keep in mind we have both plasma-desktop and plasma-netbook for desktop/laptops and netbooks.
[04:31] <claydoh> ScottK: <Riddell> http://community.kde.org/Promo/Distribution_Communication upstream wants us to use "Plasma Desktop" more
 nixternal, claydoh: might be important for docs and wiki pages ^^
[04:32] <ScottK> claydoh: If you apt-get install plasma-desktop it'll get you something ~usable.  I'd call that using it more.
[04:32] <ScottK> Before Lucid, it didn't exist at all.
[04:33] <claydoh> ScottK: it still is a confusing mish-mash, but looking at the link, and going a bit deeper, upstream wants this
[04:34] <claydoh> http://community.kde.org/Promo/Branding
[04:35] <claydoh> and http://www.asinen.org/2009/12/how-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-rebranding/
[04:36] <maco> the buildds are *really* usy, i take it?
[04:36] <maco> *busy
[04:36] <ScottK> KDE Plasma Desktop is OK.
[04:36] <ScottK> maco: Yes.
[04:37] <vorian> i removed all the netbook stuff on my netbook, kde proper runs like a champ
[04:39] <maco> i wonder how long after i upload amarok it'll actually get built
[04:39] <maco> oh wait i cant
[04:39] <maco> hrmph
[04:39] <maco> i wonder how long after one of you sponsors amarok for me itll actually get built :)
[04:39] <vorian> will depend on the arch
[04:39] <maco> amd64 is *really* behind it seems
[04:39] <vorian> odd
[04:40] <maco> i uploaded a package yesterday and its built on i386 and powerpc and armel but says 9 hours til start on amd64
[04:40] <maco> (6 hours ago, it said 2hr til start)
[04:40] <vorian> you could also bribe someone to move its importance up
[04:40] <maco> heh nah
[04:40] <maco> its not an important one
[04:40] <vorian> ah, well
[04:41] <vorian> aren't we in freeze anyway?
[04:41] <maco> im just going "wow, 31 hours is the expected time??"
[04:41] <maco> umm yes maybe
[04:41] <vorian> ha
[04:41] <vorian> i hate it when that happens
[04:42] <maco> did freeze hit today or yesterday?
[04:42] <vorian> today
[04:42] <vorian> er
[04:42] <vorian> yesterday
[04:43] <maco> hmm there wasnt a freeze announcement sent to -announce
[04:43] <ScottK> I didn't see it if there was.
[04:43] <maco> a bug day was the last thing announced
[04:43] <vorian> beta 1 is next thurs
[04:43] <vorian> so it should have been today
[04:43] <maco> !schedule
[04:43] <maco> hrmph that factoid never does what i expect
[04:43] <maco> !lucid
[04:44] <maco> rawr
[04:44] <maco> i was hoping the bot would tell me https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[04:45] <maco> yeah beta 1 freeze is supposed to be today...
[04:45] <maco> dear pbuilder: hurry up so i can get this in before someone notices they're supposed to freeze the archive
[04:45] <ScottK> maco: Riddell can give freeze exceptions (so can I for that matter).
[04:46] <maco> and you can both be sponsors
[04:46] <vorian> ubottu: !lucid is Lucid lynx is the codename for Ubuntu 10.04, due April 29th, 2010 - Lucid is NOT released and is NOT stable - Discussion and support only in #ubuntu+1 - Development Schedule https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[04:47] <vorian> that sould work
[04:47] <vorian> if the powers that be accept it
[04:48] <maco> i always expect !schedule to give me the development schedule
[04:48] <maco> umm hmm
[04:50] <maco> wince when is it .debian.tar.gz not .diff.tar.gz?
[04:50] <maco> *since
[04:51] <ScottK> Since source format v3.
[04:58] <maco> i see
[04:58] <maco> how long does amarok normally take to build?
[04:58] <maco> wait...hardware dependent. silly question
[10:18] <agateau> Riddell: hi, worked around my strigi-nepomuk troubles yesterday so I could reproduce the bug with the indexer KSNI icon under GNOME...
[10:19] <agateau> it's simple yet painful to fix...
[10:19] <agateau> nepomuk icons are installed in /usr/share/icons/oxygen, but GNOME only looks for them in /usr/share/icons/hicolor
[10:19] <agateau> :(
[10:57] <Riddell> agateau: aaah
[10:58] <agateau> Riddell: I am trying to see if I can provide a better solution than "move icons" :/
[10:59] <Riddell> agateau: I'm ok with moving the icons I think, we already have to install application icons in hicolor for the application menu
[10:59] <agateau> Riddell: ok
[11:00] <agateau> Riddell: it's quite the same problem in fact
[11:00] <agateau> Riddell: with KSNI, it's up to the desktop to load the icon
[11:00] <agateau> before that, it was up to the application
[11:00] <agateau> Riddell: what I am afraid of is missing icons
[11:01] <agateau> Riddell: especially in dbusmenu
[11:04] <Riddell> agateau: oh yes, that will add up to quite a lot of icons if there are icons in the menus
[11:04] <agateau> Riddell: yes :/
[11:05] <maco> agateau: bonjour :) i'm packaging amarok and debian/patches/kubuntu/05_kstatusnotifieritem.diff has 2 hunks that dont apply and even after tweaking so they do apply, it then breaks compilation
[11:06] <agateau> maco: oh
[11:06] <maco> http://paste.ubuntu.com/393944/ <- compiler spew
[11:07] <agateau> maco: what version of amarok is this?
[11:07] <maco> 2.3.0
[11:08] <agateau> maco: have you checked support for kstatusnotifieritem has not been merged?
[11:08] <agateau> I submitted the patch upstream
[11:10] <maco> agateau: nothing in the ChangeLog about kstatusnotifieritem
[11:10] <agateau> mmm, not marked as merged on gitorious
[11:10] <agateau> :/
[11:11] <maco> well, i'm disabling the patch for now to get it to build
[11:11] <agateau> maco: I'll look into updating the patch this afternoon
[11:12] <maco> alright
[11:12] <ghostcube> o/
[11:28] <_StefanS_> Riddell: hey, the upgrade worked out just fine, albeit package installation was very slow (imho, took 2 hours to install 2gb packages, on very recent hardware)
[11:29] <_StefanS_> Riddell: the machine asked me to reboot, and nouveau made some fuss so X wouldn't start, but thats a more general ubuntu issue I think. I installed the binary nvidia blob and everything worked
[11:57] <maco> agateau: i dont think its your patch's fault anymore. i think something's wrong with amarok. build still failed
[11:58] <Riddell> uh oh
[11:59] <maco> ../../src/TrayIcon.cpp:64: error: prototype for 'Amarok::TrayIcon::TrayIcon(QWidget*)' does not match any in class 'Amarok::TrayIcon' 
[12:00] <Riddell> you sure that patch isn't still applied?  what happens if you patch -p1 -R < <patch> by hand?
[12:00] <Riddell> or are you pbuilding?
[12:00] <maco> pbuilding
[12:00] <maco> i commented the patch out of patches/series
[12:00] <Riddell> so that should be fine
[12:00] <maco> and im looking at the source and seeing line 64
[12:00] <Riddell> let me compile it and see what I can see
[12:01] <maco> pbuilder says that line should either have (QObject*) or (const Amarok::TrayIcon&) for its parameter
[13:01] <shadeslayer> hi,i need to build translations with my packages,how do i do that?
[13:01] <shadeslayer> the package seems to have a custom script to add them... but im not so sure what to do
[13:12] <Riddell> shadeslayer: the norm in KDE is to have a Messages.sh script to create the .po file
[13:12] <Riddell> .pot file rather
[13:12] <Riddell> does it have that?
[13:17] <NCommander> morning guys
[13:17] <NCommander> If I have a bug with powermanagement under Kubuntu, what do I file the bug against?
[13:17]  * NCommander isn't sure
[13:18] <Riddell> NCommander: ir all depends on what's causing the bug :)
[13:18] <NCommander> Riddell: the problem is that the machine going to sleep at the low power state instead of critical
[13:18] <Riddell> could be linux, hal, solid, powerdevil, battery plasmoid or some combination
[13:20] <shadeslayer> NCommander: i kinda have the same issue with brightness
[13:20] <shadeslayer> it decreases 2 levels on 1 key press
[13:20] <shadeslayer> works fine without powerdevil workiing
[13:21] <shadeslayer> Riddell: im looking at this commit : http://gitorious.org/rekonq/mainline/commit/f5b1a453f1c75f946c4b2bd14a49fb17d84fbcfc
[13:21] <shadeslayer> can you please advise on how to go about this?
[13:22] <shadeslayer> (there already are .po files in the i18n dir)
[13:23] <shadeslayer> ah i think i understand,this is for future translations and it hasnt been implemented yet
[13:24] <shadeslayer> nope its in the 0.4 release
[13:26] <Riddell> shadeslayer: looks like it's for updating the .po files and build system.  if you already have .po files and the CMakelists.txt file you're all good
[13:26] <Riddell> as long as it also has the Messages.sh too
[13:29] <shadeslayer> Riddell: Messages.sh in scripts/ ?
[13:30] <Riddell> in with the c++ sources usually
[13:31] <shadeslayer> Riddell: nothing there
[13:32] <Riddell> src/Messages.sh exists in version 0.3.0
[13:33] <Riddell> seems fine http://gitorious.org/rekonq/mainline/blobs/master/src/Messages.sh
[13:34] <shadeslayer> ah ok found it,so im good to go? dont have to do anything right?
[13:34] <shadeslayer> Riddell: oh and one more thing,the upstream changelog is incomplete,ive sent them a patch but i dont think itll be update for 0.4,so i can add this myself right?
[13:35] <Riddell> translations should be good to go yes
[13:36] <shadeslayer> :)
[13:36] <Riddell> no point patching for the changelog, maybe put it on a web server somewhere with a pointer in debian/changelog
[13:36] <maco> Riddell: want to upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~maco.m/needs_sponsorship/ amarok stuff?
[13:36] <maco> it built and i'm using it now
[13:37] <Riddell> maco: rocking
[13:37] <maco> agateau: yeah it's your patch's problem. i hadnt fully unpatched it when i retried and the build failed
[13:37] <Riddell> maco: however we're in beta freeze so it'll need to go in a PPA for now
[13:37] <maco> Riddell: i thought you had pixie dust?
[13:38] <agateau> maco: did you update the orig.tar.bz2 on your site?
[13:38] <maco> agateau: the orig hasnt changed...
[13:38] <agateau> mmm
[13:38]  * agateau checks something
[13:38] <Riddell> maco: I have pixie dust for feature freeze exceptions but beta freeze we should respect.  it can go in next week but in the mean time it can go in a PPA
[13:39] <agateau> maco: ok, so an updated debian.tar.gz then :)
[13:39] <maco> agateau: the orig is fine. the patch was still applied when i attempted to rebuild without it. i re-untar'd the orig and ti works
[13:39] <maco> agateau: yes :)
[13:39] <maco> Riddell: ok
[13:39] <maco> Riddell: what ppa?
[13:40] <agateau> maco: my guess is part of the patch went in debian.tar.gz
[13:40] <Riddell> maco: still pondering that
[13:40]  * agateau thinks debian source packaging is broken
[13:40] <maco> agateau: it put a piece of the patch into debian/patches/debian-changes-blahblah  Riddell pointed it out to me
[13:41] <agateau> yes, that's what I'm saying
[13:41] <agateau> debian source packaging is broken
[13:41] <agateau> but I am just ranting, ignore me :)
[13:41] <maco> heh
[13:42] <Riddell> agateau: it tries to be clever and take a diff of changes made outside the debian/ directory, unfortunately this is often not what is wanted, but it is consistent with the source 1.0 format
[13:43] <agateau> Riddell: I believe it would be saner if it was just only possible to apply changes via patches
[13:43] <agateau> Riddell: just like rpm does (boo !)
[13:43] <shadeslayer> i guess this version is correct  for lucid : 0.4-0ubuntu1~ppa1
[13:43] <maco> agateau: but without the awfulness of a .spec :P
[13:44] <agateau> maco: sure, I am not saying rpm source packaging is perfect :)
[13:44] <agateau> maco: but this part is better imho
[13:44] <agateau> heck if it were for me, source packaging would be shipping a .bzr or .git folder :)
[13:44] <shadeslayer> agateau: :P
[13:45] <Tonio__> Riddell: just updates plasmoid-networkmanager on kubuntu-experiental, including the latest sebas changes,for test
[13:45] <Tonio__> s/updates/updated/
[13:45] <shadeslayer> Tonio__: experimental :p
[13:45] <Riddell> "Format: 3.0 (git) and 3.0 (bzr) Those formats are experimental. They generate a single tarball containing the corresponding VCS repository.
[13:45] <maco> Riddell: by the way, lp:~kubuntu-members/amarok/ubuntu updated
[13:45] <Riddell> agateau: dpkg-source grants your wish ^^
[13:45] <agateau> Riddell: wow! great!
[13:46]  * agateau wants
[13:46] <Riddell> Tonio_: can you post that to the mailing list?
[13:46] <Tonio_> sebas: I'm pretty happy with the plasmoid right now. Seems to work as well as the knetworkmanager client for me
[13:46] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure
[13:48] <sebas> Tonio_: cool :)
[13:48] <shadeslayer> hmm weird that i get the warnings : http://pastebin.ca/1835424
[13:50] <maco> Riddell: experimental?
[13:52] <Riddell> maco: if we do a karmic backport it would go in backports so maybe the lucid version should go in the same place
[13:52] <Riddell> maco: any plans for a karmic backport or do you need to get to uni?
[13:53] <maco> i have an hour til i have to leave for uni
[13:53] <maco> though i should probably pack for my trip...
[13:54] <maco> but now i dont have a karmic system to test a karmic back..oh wait there's a karmic machine under the bed
[13:55] <Riddell> you can also make a chroot
[13:55] <maco> lets not get into the conversation that ensued the *last* time someone said that to me
[13:56] <maco> at least not in-channel
[13:58] <persia> shadeslayer: Could also ask that sort of thing here :p
[14:00] <shadeslayer> persia: what sort?
[14:00] <shadeslayer> persia: btw it was a generic packaging problem
[14:00] <shadeslayer> not related to kde,so i thought motu was better
[14:01] <maco> all development teams are responsible for helping train
[14:01] <maco> not just motu
[14:02] <persia> If it's generic, it belongs in #ubuntu-packaging, but generally asking within the team gets better support in case it's realted to some team thing.
[14:02] <shadeslayer> persia: ok i didnt know about that channel
[14:02] <persia> It's new :)
[14:03] <shadeslayer> nice :)
[14:03] <shadeslayer> ill hang out there :P
[14:07] <agateau> maco: don't know what happened to my ksni patch, it was only half-way applied... anyway, here is an updated one: http://people.canonical.com/~agateau/tmp/amarok-2.3.0-ksni.diff
[14:11] <maco> agateau: did ya check it builds?
[14:11] <agateau> I did
[14:12] <maco> great :)
[14:13]  * maco rebuilds
[14:13] <maco> agateau: thank you!
[14:14] <agateau> maco: you're welcome
[14:17] <Riddell> maco: I think experimental would be best actually, let's not abuse backports for something it's not there for.  karmic build can go in backports if we get it done.  so just upload to experimental if you have success with agateau's patch
[14:18] <Riddell> Nightrose: do you know if agateau's patch is being handled by anyone now that 2.3 is done?
[14:19] <maco> Riddell: that's lp:kubuntu-ppa/experimental right?
[14:19] <Riddell> maco: dput ppa:kubuntu-ppa/experimental <.changes file>
[14:19] <Nightrose> Riddell: markey looked at it
[14:19] <Nightrose> not sure what the current status is
[14:20] <maco> Riddell: er yeah, ppa:, thats it ;-)
[14:20] <Riddell> maco: and add ~ppa1 to the version no
[14:20] <agateau> Nightrose: Riddell: discussions have stalled a bit
[14:20] <markey> Riddell: I found it had some issues, I wasn't fully sure what was going on there
[14:21] <maco> Riddell: ok
[14:21] <agateau> markey: what issue did you find?
[14:21] <markey> Riddell: 1) mouse wheel on systray sometimes changed the track, instead of volume 2) the systray dialog cuts off some information, it doesn't really completely fit in
[14:21] <markey> but the mouse wheel thing might have been due to a bad merge conflict resolution, I'm not sure
[14:21] <markey> it was bizarre
[14:22] <markey> half of the time it changed the track, the other half it changed the volume
[14:22] <markey> especially with Last.fm streams
[14:22] <agateau> markey: mmm, I am afraid it's because of the way modifiers are checked
[14:22] <agateau> I ask Qt the status of the modifiers when I receive the signal from dbus,
[14:22] <markey> agateau: hmmm yeah, but that's a rather critical issue
[14:23] <markey> we should try to sort that out somehow
[14:23] <agateau> but this status may be different from the status when the signal is emitted :/
[14:23] <agateau> *was emitted
[14:23] <markey> hm
[14:23] <markey> not sure how to solve this, would have to study the code
[14:23] <agateau> KSNI does not report modifiers info
[14:23] <agateau> I am afraid it needs more work on KSNI itself, so that it reports the modifiers
[14:24] <markey> too bad
[14:24] <markey> do you see any workaround?
[14:24] <markey> we can't really leave it in this state, imho
[14:24] <markey> I found it very irritating to use
[14:24] <agateau> not really
[14:24] <agateau> I can see how it can be painful
[14:24] <markey> it jumped around in the playlist randomly :)
[14:24] <agateau> I am going to ask aaron and marco
[14:24] <markey> ok great
[14:25] <agateau> mmm, they are not online
[14:26] <markey> aaron will probably come later (time zone...)
[14:27] <Tonio_> sebas: tested the vpn stuff, works like a charm
[14:27] <Tonio_> sebas: I can say now the plasmoid probably works better than the standalone knetworkmanager
[14:27] <sebas> Woohoo, that's the kind of testing I like :)
[14:28] <Tonio_> sebas: not sure about openvpn support right now, but that's more a backend issue I suspect
[14:29] <Tonio_> sebas: I also noticed in the connection management, that to create connections, there is no check for network-manager capability
[14:29] <Riddell> Tonio_: better how?
[14:29] <Tonio_> sebas: for example I can create an openvpn connection without network-manager-openvpn installed
[14:29] <sebas> Tonio_: what do you mean by connection capability?
[14:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: I can connect and disconnect 5 times without a segfault :)
[14:30] <Tonio_> sebas: nm-applet won't let you do this, which I think makes sense
[14:30]  * sebas set the threshold to 6 ;-)
[14:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: I tested 20 times here without an issue on that point
[14:31] <Tonio_> sebas: should I report a bug about that ?
[14:32] <sebas> Tonio_: what do you mean by connection capability?
[14:32] <maco> sebas: what he said about openvpn
[14:33] <maco> sebas: if you dont have the n-m-openvpn, nm-applet wont let you try to setup a vpn connection
[14:33] <maco> sebas: but this plasmoid will
[14:33] <maco> even though it then cant be used due to lack of backend support
[14:33] <Tonio_> sebas: I mean that network-manager won't handle openvpn connections without network-manager-openvpn installed...
[14:33] <Tonio_> maco: thanks for making this clear :)
[14:33] <Tonio_> I have to admit it wasn't...
[14:34] <Tonio_> maco: I also notice that we will have to touch network-manager packages to avoid gconf deps...
[14:35] <Tm_K> hi, is konq-plugins in Lucid installable for you
[14:35] <sebas> Tonio_: ah, yeah, a bugreport would be nice
[14:35] <sebas> I've at least one report that openvpn works with the nm plasmoid, btw
[14:36] <sebas> so unlikely that the backend is lacking
[14:36]  * sebas is afk now
[14:37] <ScottK> Riddell: doko is looking at qt4-x11 ICE on ia64, so maybe we'll get that back ....
[14:38] <Tm_K> ah, got it: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/libjpeg-progs ... missing dependency in main, interesting
[14:39] <shadeslayer> oh btw when is the beta 1 release?
[14:40] <shadeslayer> nvm
[14:41] <shadeslayer> ill be free in a week so i can test it out,yayy!!
[14:43] <Riddell> ScottK: great
[14:43] <Riddell> ScottK: are you able to do release meeting duty today?  I may have to leave before then
[14:44] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.  Is the wiki page up to date and where is it again?
[14:44] <Riddell> ScottK: not yet, I'll do that shortly
[14:44] <ScottK> OK.  Just send me the link and I'll cover it.
[14:44] <Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[14:44] <ScottK> Thanks.
[14:46] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: will we have native support for broadcom 43XX cards in lucid? ( i heard this on some forum )
[14:47] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: I've no idea
[14:47] <shadeslayer_> hmm... probably more concerned with the kernel team :)
[14:48] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: btw you guys will be testing the images this week ( according to the wiki ) how can i help?
[14:49] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: subscribe to kubuntu images at iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[14:50] <Riddell> and stay on the channel for announces of images, also #ubuntu-testing
[14:50] <maco> if the battery monitor plasmoid stops monitoring...how do i reset it?
[14:50] <Tonio_> sebas: that's not a bug in fact, as the gui will search for a desktop file
[14:50] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: ok thanks
[14:51] <maco> it has said 64% for 11 or so hours, even when it only had 10% or when it has 100% and it says its unplugged the whole time
[14:51] <Tonio_> sebas: I just don't know yet how to make that dynamic with the network-manager plugin
[14:51]  * Tonio_ investigates
[14:52] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: where is the ML?
[14:52] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: ML?
[14:53] <jjesse> mailing list?
[14:53] <shadeslayer_> yeah :)
[14:53] <maco> lists.ubuntu.com
[14:53] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: i thought there was a ML of kubuntu images at  iso.qa.ubuntu.com
[14:55] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: you subscribe and it'll e-mail you
[14:55] <shadeslayer_> ohhh ok
[14:57] <Tonio_> anyone knows about a "tryexec" equivalent for Service type desktop files ?
[14:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: the way to avoid the issue I'm talking about seems to be splitting the plasma-widget-networkmanagement package to separate vpn plugins
[14:59] <Tonio_> and having a plasma-widget-networkmanagement-openvpn package installing the desktop file and depending network-manager-openvpn
[14:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: would that seem correct to you ?
[15:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: i guess so, equivalent of the network-manager-openvpn-gnome package
[15:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: about the naming ? make a network-manager-openvpn-kde pakage or plasma-widget-networkmanagement-openvpn ?
[15:01] <Tonio_> first option seems to be better imho
[15:01] <Riddell> I'd go with plasma-widget-networkmanagement-openvpn actually
[15:01] <Tonio_> kk
[15:01] <Tonio_> let's go
[15:05] <jjesse> wow that's a long package name
[15:07] <Tonio_> jjesse: indeed :'(
[15:08] <Tonio_> I'll suggest them so that people know about them when installing or checking for the plasmoid package...
[15:08] <jjesse> is there a length limit for a pcakge name?
[15:09] <persia> In practice, anything over about 40 characters is going to be truncated in a number of common displays.
[15:10] <persia> The place most likely to generate warnings/errors is probably debian/changelog
[15:14] <maco> Riddell: dput'ing to experimental. will let karmic backport testbuild run during class
[15:18] <davmor2> Riddell: just checking that you know that 64bit live didn't build today?
[15:18] <Riddell> davmor2: I did not
[15:18] <Riddell> but I saw there were some issues on lucid_problems
[15:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: uploaded to experimental with splitted plugins
[15:19] <davmor2> Riddell: it hasn't got the up-to-date ubiquity but 32 bit has so I checked the logs http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/report.html
[15:19] <Tonio_> sebas: vpn plugins problem fixed
[15:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum concerning the name, those packages might be used along with knetworkmanager too
[15:23] <Tonio_> they are more backend oriented, so maybe "plasma-widget..." name isn't correct... I think I'd go with network-manager-openvpn-kde so that people used to install network-manager-* plugins can figure it out
[15:23] <Tonio_> Riddell: any objection ?
[15:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: and if I apt-cache search network-manager | grep vpn, I can find it
[15:25] <steveire> Is there another kubuntu lts planned?
[15:26] <ScottK> Yes.
[15:26] <ScottK> The next release in April will be LTS.
[15:27] <JontheEchidna> is universe affected by alpha freezes now?
[15:27] <JontheEchidna> rekonq got stuck in approval queue :(
[15:28] <ScottK> Does it have an approved FFe?
[15:28] <ScottK> I can push Universe stuff through.
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: It's the stable release of the current beta
[15:29] <ScottK> OK.
[15:29] <ScottK> Looking
[15:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: You want ubuntu1 or ubuntu2?
[15:32] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: actually, would it be alright to reject both so I can rectify the change without going to 0ubuntu2?
[15:32] <ScottK> Sure
[15:33] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Rejected.  Ping me when you've uploaded again.
[15:37] <Riddell> Tonio_: no objection
[15:38] <Tonio_> Riddell: kk
[15:42] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: uploaded
[15:42] <ScottK> Looking
[15:43] <ScottK> It usually takes a little while to show up.
[15:43] <ScottK> But there it is
[15:43] <JontheEchidna> yay, bug 493425 is being worked on
[15:43] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Accepted.
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: could you push scidavis and pyqwt3d through approval queue too? They fix NBS's for libqwtplot3d-qt{3,4}
[16:06] <ScottK> Sure.
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> Thanks
[16:09] <ScottK> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus says we're still waiting on a MIR for the FF patches, but the MIR bug is marked fix released.
[16:10] <Riddell> ScottK: I'm still editing
[16:10] <ScottK> Ah, excellent.
[16:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: very nice for firefox integration :)
[16:13] <Tonio_> ScottK: but doesn't this sound a little ironic than just when we start to have a kde web browser that really does the job and get avoids using firefox, we get the firefox kde integration in the meantime ? :)
[16:14] <ScottK> Competition is grand.
[16:14]  * Tonio_ is in love with rekonq... just lacks chrome plugins and a better adblock system
[16:14] <Tonio_> ScottK: sure, and also firefox-kde integration is a must have in my case,to deploy kubuntu in corp environment
[16:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: people won't accept something caleed "rekonq", and expect "firefox"
[16:15] <Tonio_> that's stupid imho, but that's life :)
[16:15] <nixternal> hrmm, I am working on the slides for ubiquity and one thing I am noticiing, is that we don't have anything to edit images with by default...
[16:15] <Tonio_> ScottK: will you go with rekonq for the netbook edition ?
[16:16]  * agateau was in loved with rekonq until it started an infinite loop while posting on launchpad
[16:16] <Tonio_> ScottK: one thing rekonq is very good at is optimising the space usage... I've seen no browser that uses that few space on the top of the screen
[16:16] <Tonio_> agateau: bah not perfect, but 0.4 is really, really nice
[16:16] <ScottK> Tonio_: I didn't change anything yet.  We can discsuss.  That sounds like a good reason to consider it.  We'd need a MIR though.
[16:17] <agateau> Yes, it clearly has a lot of potential
[16:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: yep
[16:17] <Tonio_> ScottK: well atm what is the default browser for the netbook edition ?
[16:17] <agateau> Tonio_: look at this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/516824
[16:17] <Riddell> ScottK: updated
[16:18] <Tonio_> agateau: especially since I think chrome extensions support is planned for qtwebkit
[16:18] <agateau> Tonio_: and the beautiful result :) https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-application/dbusmenu-signal-change/+merge/18490
[16:18] <ScottK> Thanks.  Looking
[16:18] <Tonio_> agateau: can you reproduce with arora ?
[16:19] <agateau> Tonio_: no
[16:19] <Tonio_> hu ? that's weird :)
[16:19] <Tonio_> agateau: and is that reproductible in rekonq ?
[16:19] <agateau> now you understand why I don't use Rekonq (yet) for work
[16:19] <agateau> Tonio_: yes
[16:19] <Tonio_> very strange... better repport upstream then :)
[16:20] <agateau> yes
[16:20]  * agateau heads for rekonq bug tracker
[16:20] <Tonio_> agateau: or maybe test with 0.4, which should have lots of bugs fixed
[16:20] <Tonio_> agateau: wait a second
[16:21] <agateau> I should have indicated the version in my bugreport
[16:21] <Tonio_> agateau: - multithreaded url resolver (hopefully, no more UI freezes)
[16:21] <Tonio_> agateau: could be your bug
[16:21] <Tonio_> supposed to be fixed in 0.4
[16:21] <agateau> it's not a ui-freeze big, it's a post-in-loop bug
[16:21] <agateau> but it may be fixed indeed
[16:21] <agateau> need to test
[16:22] <Riddell> davmor2: what's pairwise?  sounds like something I should know about
[16:22] <Tonio_> agateau: yup
[16:22] <davmor2> Riddell: http://pairwise.qa.ubuntu.com/  you should hang out on #ubuntu-testing more ;)
[16:23] <Riddell> nixternal, jjesse: do you know we changed the wallpaper used in ubiquity and kubuntu-firefox-installer to match the default wallpaper?  I realise we should have asked docs before doing that but failed
[16:23] <jjesse> no i ddidn't
[16:23] <Riddell> davmor2: looks like the ISO tester
[16:24] <davmor2> Riddell: kinda but it's just for ubiquity
[16:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: I'd also switch to konversation for the same space usage reasons
[16:24] <nixternal> Riddell: it is fine to do it...images can be changed even after string freeze
[16:24] <Tonio_> ScottK: but we can discuss this later if you want
[16:24] <nixternal> just let us know when it happens
[16:25] <nixternal> I need to get screenshots of them anyways, and haven't done so yet, so that is good :)
[16:25] <ScottK> Tonio_: Quassel can be very netbook friendly, just not the default config.
[16:25] <nixternal> put chromium on the netbook :)
[16:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: sure but, from my opinion, less feature complete than konversation, worse kde integration, and slower when it comes to play with history and things like that
[16:27]  * nixternal still thinks we should do digikam by default
[16:27] <Tonio_> ScottK: in fact I see nothing quassel is better at compared to konversation
[16:27] <ScottK> Tonio_: None of those arguments are a reason why netbook should be different than desktop.
[16:27] <ScottK> There's an outstanding action to revisit that.
[16:28] <Tonio_> ScottK: sure :)
[16:28] <Tonio_> ScottK: and agree to stay sync with the distro
[16:28] <Tonio_> ScottK: in fact kubuntu should switch to konversation imho :)
[16:28] <Riddell> http://home.samfundet.no/~sandsmark/phonon-4.4-for-qt-4.6.2.patch should anyone want it
[16:29] <Riddell> nixternal: we've had both digikam and krita on the CD before but we don't have space now
[16:31] <nixternal> I know, kind of sucks...think I should mention digikam being easy to install in the slideshow?
[16:31] <debfx> nimbus sans with a small font size is practically unreadable on kubuntu and it's used a fallback for helvetica :(
[16:32] <debfx> on ubuntu it looks a bit better: http://debfx.fobos.de/nimbus.htm
[16:33] <nixternal> that's because Ubuntu uses font settings designed to give you a headache :)
[16:33] <Tonio_> nixternal: I've said this a million times, but think about all that we could do if we could release with koffice instead of OOo :)
[16:33] <Tonio_> nixternal: hopefully one day... depends on what nokia really does to improve koffice
[16:34] <debfx> I think that fallback should be removed as nimbus is in a bad shape
[16:34] <nixternal> hopefully the infighting stops too, and koffice can continue progressing...have you followed the ML at all? jeesh
[16:34] <Tonio_> nixternal: hum nope, what are you talking about ?
[16:34] <nixternal> there has been issues with some on the mailing list from what I have read
[16:35] <Tonio_> koffice ML ?
[16:36] <nixternal> devel ml...trying to find the one thread now for you
[16:36] <Tonio_> nixternal: thanks :)
[16:37] <agateau> Riddell: about the nepomuk ksni under gnome issue...
[16:38] <agateau> Riddell: I think we should move the icon to hicolor/ for now
[16:38] <agateau> Riddell: do you think this can be done?
[16:39]  * JontheEchidna raises an eyebrow at http://bugs.debian.org/561762
[16:40] <ScottK> IIRC it doesn't say there are issues in kdelibs, just that since webkit derives from it, there may be.
[16:43] <Tonio_> nixternal: I'll search myself if you don't find it... what was the initial topic for the thread ?
[16:46] <nixternal> Tonio_: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-commits&m=125154159829434&w=2  <- kde-commits...there are a few like this if you look around...mutt search is taking forever there
[16:46] <agateau> Tonio_: where did you find rekonq changelog?
[16:47] <agateau> Tonio_: nm, found it
[16:47] <Tonio_> nixternal: kk ;)
[16:49] <Tonio_> nixternal: ouch... indeed :)
[16:50] <Tonio_> nixternal: sounds like "project management required !!"
[16:52] <Riddell> agateau: sure, especially if you give me a patch :)
[16:52] <agateau> Riddell: mmm... here comes the fun part: this icon is part of kdesupport/oxygen-icons
[16:53] <Tonio_> nixternal: what sounds nice is that the number of messages grown up considerably in the last 4 month
[16:53] <Riddell> agateau: oh so it'll need a packaging fiddle instead of a patch, no problem, I'll do it
[16:53] <agateau> Riddell: cool :)
[16:53] <Tonio_> nixternal: looking at the content, it sounds like there is much more activity
[16:53] <agateau> Riddell: I should "audit" the other applications to check whether they are doing similar things
[16:54] <agateau> Riddell: and come up to you with a list of icons to move
[16:54] <agateau> Riddell: would probably avoid wasting too much of your time on this
[16:56] <Riddell> yeah
[16:59] <Riddell> ScottK: we're up!
[16:59] <ScottK> Thanks.
[17:03] <nixternal> Tonio_: yeah, it looks like they have some project management if you read the latest on koffice-devel, something about a wise-man council or something
[17:18] <shtylman> how do I make a platform independent deb file?
[17:18] <shtylman> every time I run debuild
[17:18] <shtylman> it produces an _amd64.deb file
[17:18] <shtylman> but nothing in my deb is particular to that architecture
[17:18] <shtylman> its all scripts
[17:20] <ScottK> shtylman: Make it arch all instead of arch any in debian/control
[17:22] <shtylman> ScottK: thanks :)
[17:29] <shtylman> is it possible to clean the generated files made by debuild? not the files it cleans with "debuild clean" but the dsc and .deb file it generated in the higher level directory
[17:38] <cloakable> >.>
[17:40] <descendent87> What's better for KDE (and kubuntu) development, ruby or python? Want to start learning one of them (or would it be better to go straight for C++?)
[17:43] <ScottK> descendent87: Python
[17:44] <ScottK> C++ is best for KDE, but between Ruby and Python, Python.
[17:44] <descendent87> thanks thought so, I'll probably learn C++ after but thought python or ruby would be a good first language to learn
[17:46] <ScottK> Python is often used at Universities to teach introductory programming
[17:49] <Sput> we had to use Java :(
[17:49] <Sput> well, "we" as of "the students the years after me"
[17:51] <ScottK> I used Pascal.
[17:53] <Sput> I used Pascal in school
[17:57] <ScottK> I actually knew Pascal when I got to University, I'd needed it the summer before at a job.
[17:57] <ScottK> I'd also done coursed in Fortran and Cobol too.  Fortunately I've forgotten most of that.
[17:59] <maco> Riddell: hrmph. the amarok package says debhelper >= 7.3.16 and karmic has 7.3.15 so backporting is not very happy
[18:00] <maco> my school uses java
[18:01] <maco> i'm just now learning python beyond basic iterative stuff so i can write a kde app
[18:10] <shadeslayer_> is there a summer project,for 6 weeks or so,in kubuntu?
[18:10] <shadeslayer_> some light programing ...
[18:10] <shadeslayer_> and something thats worth the time and effort ;)
[18:11] <shadeslayer_> i know some C++ and am willing to learn
[18:14]  * ScottK bets apachelogger has ideas.
[18:18] <shadeslayer_> im aiming for GSoC next year or next to next year
[18:18] <shadeslayer_> GSoC with kubuntu mixed in that is :)
[18:19] <shadeslayer_> i was looking at the ubuntu gsoc page and found it was quite impressive
[18:22] <ScottK> What the probably most needs is a Kubuntu GSoC mentor.
[18:22] <shadeslayer_> ok im going afk for now,just leave me a message/Memoserv and ill get back :)
[18:23] <shadeslayer_> ScottK: hmm.. i want to start with something small and then i can move to bigger things :)
[18:23] <maco> i never did gsoc
[18:23] <shadeslayer_> i also know bits of packaging :)
[18:23] <shadeslayer_> thanks to apachelogger  :P
[18:24] <maco> ive applied twice before to various projects but never followed up on questions-asked. always had a summer job so meh
[18:24] <shadeslayer_> maco: hehe :D
[18:27] <Tonio_> nixternal: talking about koffice, this sounds good : http://ingwa2.blogspot.com/2009/12/koffice-we-have-plan.html
[18:28] <Tonio_> nixternal: and the date looks like when the ML started to get more messages...
[18:33] <nixternal> shtylman, Riddell: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~nixternal/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/kubuntu-desktop  <- updated slides (draft) for kubuntu-desktop
[18:33] <nixternal> need to do one for netbook, which will pretty much be a copy of this, except with some minor changes here or there
[18:40] <shtylman> nixternal: was it just text changes?
[18:41] <shtylman> and some icons movement
[18:41] <shtylman> I see
[18:45] <nixternal> shtylman: and some ...yeah, icons fixes to represent a little better
[18:45] <nixternal> updated the pot file as well while I was at it
[18:47] <shtylman> gotcha
[18:47] <shtylman> alright... did you ask for the merge request?
[18:49] <nixternal> no, wanted you and Riddell to review it first
[18:49] <nixternal> it is the first draft, so changes are welcome
[18:49] <shtylman> nixternal: so far it looks good
[18:50] <shtylman> im watching it now
[18:50] <shtylman> nixternal: I might say something about digikam ?
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> kde svn 1102521
[18:50] <shtylman> how you can install it if you want more porfessional tool maybe?
[18:50] <nixternal> go for it...i added it just to have it
[18:50] <nixternal> shtylman: that works
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> ^might help with the huge liek xbox diff.gz in kdebase-workspace, would be nice if somebody re-uuecoded it
[18:54]  * JontheEchidna is the uuecode noob
[19:01] <shtylman> nixternal: I totally missed the digikam text... nvm on my previous comment :)
[19:01] <shtylman> as an asside... it may be worth mentioning krunner
[19:02] <shtylman> like... "just hit alt+f2 and type what you want" ... or something better
[19:12] <maco> Tonio_: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/experimental/+build/1558596 failed due to buildd wonkyness with ntp. i hit "retry" on it, but you might have to hit it again later
[20:25] <Quintasan> \o
[20:37] <shtylman> ScottK: what should my rules file be for a "meta" package... basically a package that just pulls in other dependencies... much like kubuntu-desktop...
[20:38] <shtylman> I don't use the seeds like kubuntu desktop does tho
[20:38] <shtylman> I just have the dependencies listed in the control file
[20:39] <ScottK> shtylman: I'd just put the standard dh 7 tiny rules.  At that it'd be overkill likely.
[20:40] <shtylman> ScottK: right now I have: include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[20:40] <ScottK> That should work.
[20:40] <shtylman> k
[20:51] <ScottK> nixternal: Bug #531697 looks like it could use some of your knowledge of qmake.
[21:09] <Quintasan> hgnh, the krunner is very laggy
[21:10] <shtylman> ScottK: my initial thoughts are that you can't...
[21:10] <shtylman> but I am looking to see
[21:11] <ScottK> shtylman: Cool.  Thanks.
[21:12] <apachelogger> I did mention that this previews on-all-the-time-and-everywhere is one of the most horrible changes we have currentl?
[21:12] <apachelogger> s/currentl/currently
[21:13] <Quintasan> apachelogger: really? I quite like it
[21:13] <apachelogger> you are on battery
[21:13] <apachelogger> say on a train
[21:13] <apachelogger> and your machine is constantly doing stupid preview lookups
[21:14] <apachelogger> you are accessing your website's ftp server
[21:14] <apachelogger> and your machine is constantly doing stupid preview lookups, not only dranining CPU cycles but also bandwith, which is even more of an abomination
[21:14] <Quintasan> okay, okay, now I get it
[21:15] <Quintasan> the thing is that I do not have a laptop :P
[21:15] <apachelogger> you want to show someone something cool
[21:15] <Quintasan> or notebook as it is normally called
[21:15] <apachelogger> unfortunately you where browsing for porn pictures and downloaded some to ~/Downloads
[21:15] <Quintasan> and you go
[21:15] <apachelogger> and now a nakid lady is showing up!!!
[21:16] <apachelogger> those are 3 the cases that come to me instantly
[21:16]  * Quintasan thinks apachelogger speaks from experience
[21:16] <Quintasan> :P
[21:16] <apachelogger> though the battery draining bit is really the most annoying one
[21:16] <apachelogger> because I was not even able to find a way to turn it off again
[21:17] <apachelogger> well, without changing the settings-apply-on-per-dir-basis anyway, which is something which makes sense
[21:17] <apachelogger> to quote the prodigy here
[21:17] <apachelogger> "it's an omen!"
[21:18] <Quintasan> well, give a notebook so I can rant about it too :P
[21:20] <Quintasan> I need a new phone
[21:20] <ScottK> apachelogger: Is this in Dolphin?
[21:20] <Quintasan> My Nokia 6310 just died T_T
[21:20] <apachelogger> ScottK: yes
[21:20] <ScottK> Ah, no wonder I hadn't noticed.
[21:21] <apachelogger> ScottK: using konqueror?
[21:22] <ScottK> apachelogger: Mostly quickaccess.
[21:22] <apachelogger> ah
[21:22] <apachelogger> then indeed you do not see that alot ^^
[21:22] <ScottK> That and konsole.
[21:22] <ScottK> kate [filename]
[21:22] <Quintasan> Konsole++
[21:22]  * Quintasan <3 Yakuake
[21:23]  * apachelogger used yakuake, but stopped by the time he switched to KDE 3.5.6[\\d]
[21:24] <apachelogger> I am hanging out on the terminal way too much anyway, so I need it to be fullscreen ^^
[21:26] <Quintasan> apachelogger: “normal” people do it like this -> http://imagebin.ca/view/8-xiqhG.html
[21:26] <Quintasan> :P
[21:27] <apachelogger> that is not fullscreen!
[21:27] <apachelogger> I wonder how one can use that
[21:27] <apachelogger> horrible just horrible
[21:27] <apachelogger> deleted debian/patches/kubuntu_14_dolphin_preview_on.diff
[21:28] <Quintasan> I do not get it how one can use it on fullscreen
[21:28] <apachelogger> there is simply no point in having other things visible :P
[21:28] <Quintasan> lol
[21:28] <apachelogger> they are only distracting you
[21:29] <apachelogger> and suddenly you find yourself emitting sudo rm -rf / foo/bar.txt
[21:29] <apachelogger> we wouldnt want that ^^
[21:29] <Quintasan> Proves your concentration ability is low and strong will is actually weak :P
[21:30] <ScottK> My favorite fear is having the pinentry dialgoue pop up over my IRC client, messing up the focus and accidentally typing mey gpg passphrase into IRC.
[21:30]  * Quintasan gets distracted by that damn KTorrent notifcation saying he has new episodes
[21:30] <ScottK> mey/my
[21:30] <Quintasan> oh, that would be a total disaster
[21:30] <ScottK> I did that with my skype password once.
[21:31] <ScottK> (changed, don't bother looking)
[21:32]  * Quintasan generates permuatations and every other possbile transformation and tests each one
[21:32] <Quintasan> ;)
[21:33] <apachelogger> ScottK: if pinentry does have sensible support for foucs stealing prevention than this shouldnt happen
[21:33]  * apachelogger wouldnt be surprised if skype did not
[21:33] <ScottK> apachelogger: It may.  That may be why I never had it happen.
[21:33] <Quintasan> apachelogger: it steals focus from every window
[21:33] <apachelogger> ScottK: eitherway you could just bump the focus stealing
[21:34] <Quintasan> apachelogger: I typed rm -rf .git to passphrase dialog once :P
[21:34] <apachelogger> somewhere in the kwin settings that is
[21:34] <apachelogger> ScottK: if that is changed to extreme no window would get focus unless you activate it
[21:35] <apachelogger> high only gives focus to new windows if no other is activate IIRC
[21:35] <apachelogger> well
[21:35] <apachelogger> I suppose there is a whats this entry for it :)
[21:44] <JontheEchidna> lex79: started on the RC2 for k3b?
[21:45] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Can't upload it until after Beta 1, so no rush.
[21:45] <JontheEchidna> well, there's no rush anyways, since we're in freeze
[21:45] <ScottK> ;-)
[21:45] <JontheEchidna> ^^
[21:45] <JontheEchidna> hrm, pyqwt3d failed to build...
[21:45] <JontheEchidna> bla, sip issues
[21:46] <JontheEchidna> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyqwt3d/0.1.7~cvs20090625-3build1/+build/1558763/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.pyqwt3d_0.1.7~cvs20090625-3build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <- anybody have any clues?
[21:48] <ScottK> NCommander is the expert.
[21:49] <NCommander> JontheEchidna: no idea on that one, SIP usually gives a more verbose error if it fails
[21:50] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Has it been updated to use dh_sip?
[21:50] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: dunno, it was supposed to just be a rebuild to pick up a new libarary name
[21:50] <JontheEchidna> let me check
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> nope, looks like it's using a custom dh(1) script for its rules file
[21:52] <apachelogger> fix builds
[21:52] <apachelogger> I like that kind of commits ^^
[21:52]  * ScottK bets that's where to head for fixing it.
[21:52] <JontheEchidna> know of any dh_sip examples?
[21:52] <ScottK> python-qt4, IIRC.
[21:53] <JontheEchidna> makes sense
[22:34] <lex79> JontheEchidna: no, if you have spare time go ahead :)