/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/12/#ubuntu-installer.txt

CIA-3ubiquity: evand * r3919 ubiquity/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Removed the alpha warning. Welcome to Ubuntu 10.04 Beta 1.09:25
michaelforrestev hallo10:27
evhiya10:27
michaelforrestmark is happy with this version of the slideshow: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/redesign-lucid/ubuntu-transitions/slides/index.html#controls10:27
michaelforrestso let's get that in :)10:27
michaelforrestI still need to get a proper ubuntu logo though10:28
CIA-3console-setup: cjwatson * r133 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog console-setup.initramfs-top): Fix incorrect FONT and ACM tests in initramfs script.10:29
evthat's good, considering it ended up on omgubuntu last night :-/10:30
michaelforrestindeed10:30
evmichaelforrest: did you get a hold of Marcus for that?10:33
michaelforrestI just emailed him10:33
michaelforrestand will now start hassling10:33
michaelforrestthey have been going into super-minute detail on it this week10:33
michaelforrestso I think I may have to give him a chinese burn10:33
evlol10:34
michaelforrestev: what format do I need here? Do you think I can just send a png at the right size?10:45
evsvg would be preferable (so that we have the original source in the tree), but png will do if that's all you have10:46
evfor those playing along at home, bug 537986 is the freeze exception request for the labelled gtk entries on the user setup page10:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 537986 in ubiquity "Freeze exception request: inactive labels on the user setup page." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53798610:53
cjwatsonev: what's happening with foundations-lucid-oem-config?11:06
evcjwatson: I'm going to have to defer the last bit.  My time has been focused on dealing with the list of design requested changes to ubiquity.11:07
cjwatsonwhich is the last bit?11:07
cjwatson(I forget whether the non-ascii passwords stuff happened)11:08
evautomatically remove language packs.  I'm convinced that there are not problems with non-ascii passwords in GNOME these days.11:08
cjwatsondidn't Dell request that bit?11:08
cjwatsonor am I misremembering11:08
evI'm not sure who requested it, actually11:08
evotherwise I'd be inquiring as to why it was raised in the first place11:08
cjwatsonsuperm1: were you looking for automatically installing language packs, or automatically removing them?11:09
cjwatson(oem-config)11:09
evoh, who requested the auto remove?  I think that was Dell11:09
persiaI know that there *are* problems with non-ascii passwords in GNOME.11:09
evreally?11:09
persiaSpecifically for asian languages, where you need an IME.11:09
evcan you give me a test case?11:09
persiaThe issues are twofold:11:09
evIME doesn't work in ubiquity11:09
persia1) In GDM, it doesn't capture keystrokes fed to the IME to block timeout for timed logins.11:10
cjwatsonright, so you can't enter IME-requiring passwords in the first place11:10
persia2) gnome-screensaver doesn't permit unlock.11:10
evI couldn't get ibus to talk to it11:10
persiaOh, then you've already solved it differently :)11:10
cjwatsonthe comment in the specification is "non-ascii passwords are allowed in ubiquity, but disallowed in later password prompts like gksudo"11:10
cjwatsonanyway, I agree that part can be dropped without major issue11:11
evfor what it's worth, I did try gksudo and it worked fine with the set of characters I tried11:11
persiaThat doesn't match my experience with it, but if ubiquity doesn't support an IME, it doesn't matter.  Non-IME non-ascii seems to work OK.11:11
cjwatsonfor removing language packs, I'm inclined to say defer to beta-2 and I'll offer to do it?11:11
evif we defer it to beta 2, I'm happy to do it11:11
persiaNote that this is a regression from jaunty, where ubiquity *did* support the IME.11:11
evI don't want to dump things on you11:11
cjwatsonwhat goes around comes around :)11:12
evhahaha11:12
cjwatsonI probably deserve it, but whatever11:12
evI don't recall you ever dumping anything on me11:12
evpersia: I'm not very familiar with IME.  Did ibus exist in jaunty and did it communicate over dbus?11:13
cjwatsonused to be scim, which probably wasn't dbus11:14
persiaev: jaunty was scim, which used the GTK IM extensions.11:14
evah, so I suspect that's why then11:14
persiaIndeed.11:14
evsomeday, when someone is crazy enough to rewrite ubiquity to talk to its frontend over dbus, all of this will go away11:15
persiaI'll give it a fiddle at some point, and maybe point some of the IME devs at it, but not likely in time for lucid.11:15
evand we'll all ride unicorns off into the sunset11:15
evcool11:15
persiaThat will indeed be a great day :)11:15
persiaOh, I should ask, rather than flailing more, is there a good way to get per-locale reconfiguration done after selecting language during install?11:18
persiaI would have thought to do it in casper, but with the new interface, I'm no longer sure this is the right answer.11:18
=== _ruben_ is now known as _ruben
evis what you're trying to do specific to a particular project, or is it general enough to be carried in Ubuntu proper?  If the latter, you could modify the end of bin/ubiquity-dm (or I suppose we could add a hook for post-greeter steps)11:20
persiaIt's bug #53115511:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531155 in casper "gedit schemas is not registered during live session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53115511:20
persiaThis ends up propagating into new installs too, forcing dpkg-reconfigure or use of the alternate installer.11:21
persiaI suspect there's a few other packages that have locale-specific logic in postinst.11:21
persia(but gedit is the one that people complained about to me)11:21
persiaDoes that belong in ubiquity-dm ?11:22
evdefinitely not ubiquity-dm then if it's affecting installs11:25
evI would imagine casper still11:25
evoh11:25
evno, that's obviously wrong11:26
evignore me11:26
persiaDo we know the locale in casper still?  I thought we didn't know it anymore because of the new gfxboot11:26
evindeed, we don't11:26
evI just didn't think that through enough before I started talking11:26
evhrm11:26
persiaI asked the reporter to file against casper because it would have been casper in karmic (and I hadn't looked at the lucid stuff enough at the time)11:26
persiaBut I'm now convinced it's the wrong place.11:27
persiaI'm also convinced it's not a bug in gedit, because it's hard to detect encodings, so we want a narrow set for each locale.11:27
persia(this will annoy folks who use one locale with documents from a different locale, but that's not a well supported use case right now anyway)11:28
cjwatsonI'd say it's a bug in gedit for depending on the system locale rather than the user locale?11:29
cjwatson(if I'm understanding correctly - I'm just going on the conversation above, haven't checked the bug)11:30
persiacjwatson: Essentially, gedit sets it's import filter lists at install time.  I can see that argument, and can certainly go reopen the bug seb closed previously :)11:30
persia(which was actually about cross-locale usage, and so somewhat different)11:30
persiaBut I like the interpretation of it being a gedit bug.11:31
evmichaelforrest: do you recall what we agreed to call the "Zone:" label now that the "Region:" label is gone? - http://people.canonical.com/~evand/screenshots/ubiquity/9.10-beta-candidate/2-timezone.png11:33
michaelforrestYah "Time Zone"11:44
evah, duh11:57
evthanks11:57
CIA-3console-setup: cjwatson * r134 ubuntu/ (5 files in 2 dirs):12:32
CIA-3console-setup: Move boot tasks to a combination of two udev rules and a single Upstart12:32
CIA-3console-setup: job, ensuring that they're run at points when we are able to satisfy the12:32
CIA-3console-setup: constraints on the relevant ioctls. This may not work optimally with12:32
CIA-3console-setup: vgacon, but you have to go to special effort to use that with Ubuntu12:32
CIA-3console-setup: now, and it at least shouldn't break (LP: #524439).12:32
evbah, it's not possible to do something like strftime %X, but without seconds, is it?12:51
cjwatsonev: difficult.  no, there doesn't seem to be12:58
cjwatsonthe separator isn't always : either12:58
evindeed12:58
evso looks like we're stuck with it unless we start providing a translation string for time format12:59
evbut I think that's a bit much12:59
cjwatsonfor instance, as far as I can tell, in Chinese, you have something like 12时59分58秒13:00
cjwatsonhow does the panel clock applet do it?13:00
cjwatsonit has a "Show seconds" checkbox13:00
cjwatsonmaybe it's just locale-incorrect ...13:00
evdoes it?  I have radio buttons for 12 hour and 24 hour time, despite being in en_GB.utf813:00
evhrm, I'll dig through its source though13:01
evmaybe there's a trick to this13:01
evor maybe gtk already does the gettext thing13:01
cjwatsonI have it set to not show seconds to avoid it waking up every second and sucking power13:02
evheh13:03
ev#. Translators: This is a strftime format string.13:06
ev#. * It is used to display the time in 12-hours format13:06
ev#. * (eg, like in the US: 8:10 am). The %p expands to13:06
ev#. * am/pm.13:06
ev#. Translators: This is a strftime format string.13:06
ev#. * It is used to display the time in 12-hours format (eg, like13:06
ev#. * in the US: 8:10 am). The %p expands to am/pm.13:06
ev#.13:06
ev#: ../applets/clock/calendar-window.c:303 ../applets/clock/clock.c:44513:06
ev#: ../applets/clock/clock-location-tile.c:51613:06
evmsgid "%l:%M %p"13:06
everm actually, not quite what we want13:06
cjwatsonwe want appropriate-hours rather than 12/24-hours13:06
cjwatsonI think13:06
evindeed13:07
cjwatsonyou might be able to get that from nl_langinfo though?13:07
evI don't think so, at least not that I can see.  My thought is to provide ubiquity/timezone_strftime_format, translated to %l:%M %p for en_US, and %k:%M for en_GB.13:34
evgranted, that means we can't simply import translations from gnome-panel13:40
evhrm13:40
evthough we could use this with the aforementioned strings from gnome-panel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/394018/13:42
* persia idly notes that there are locales that use neither 12-hour nor 24-hour time by convention (well outside the scope of this issue)13:54
davmor2persia: who uses the binary clock by default? ;)13:56
persiadavmor2: Not that, but that here it is conventional to use numbers > 24 to denote times of day.13:57
persiaFor instance, the trains run from about 4:00 to about 25:3013:57
persia(well, rather 4寺00分 to 25寺30分13:58
=== robbiew_ is now known as robbew
=== robbew is now known as robbiew
superm1cjwatson, its actually both, installing them if  they are available and selected, and a key to remove extras that were already installed and not needed15:26
cjwatsonev: ^- in that case I think we need to keep this on the list but move to beta-215:28
evcjwatson: okay15:28
cjwatsonwhich indeed is what I did15:28
cjwatsonev: is your additional fix for bug 529366 likely to land for beta-1?  and do you suspect a parted bug in and around all this?16:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 529366 in usb-creator "Regression: usb-creator-gtk doesn't work as of 0.2.16" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52936616:07
evprobably not beta 1, moving the goalpost to beta 2...16:07
evand no, I don't think it's really a parted bug beyond the fact that the behavior changed in 2.116:08
evunless it's expected that you can tell the kernel to re-read the partition table with mounted partitions16:08
everr s/tell/get/16:09
cjwatsonyou used to be able to do so partially.  it was a bad hack at best.16:09
cjwatsonmaybe this is why Dell has been having trouble, since I know they were relying on that bad hack for recovery installs16:09
cjwatsonanyway, separate bug about that ...16:09
cjwatsonit's certainly best for any software we control to avoid relying on this16:10
evindeed16:12
evI never thought removing seconds from a clock would require a 2,900 line patch16:13
ev(in fairness that's 99% translation data)16:13
evcjwatson: is there a place other than the list of languages in localechooser/languagelist I should be looking at when checking for sufficient support before adding new imported translations from GTK+?  There seems to be quite a few this time around.16:25
cjwatsonlanguagelist is canonical16:26
cjwatsonif we don't have base installer translations, I haven't been importing the corresponding GTK+ translations16:26
evokay, thanks16:27
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r463 ubuntu/ (build/entities/common.ent debian/changelog): Bump release version and names for Lucid (LP: #501572).18:06
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r464 ubuntu/ (build/entities/common.ent debian/changelog): Bump kernelversion to 2.6.32.18:08
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r465 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/welcome/what-is-ubuntu.xml): Bump GNOME version to 2.30.18:09
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r466 ubuntu/ (build/entities/common.ent debian/changelog): Bump x11ver to 7.5.18:10
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r467 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/install-methods/automatic-install.xml):18:12
CIA-3installation-guide: Remove comments about automatic installation methods that have been18:12
CIA-3installation-guide: removed from Ubuntu (LP: #496554).18:12
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r468 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/appendix/preseed.xml):18:13
CIA-3installation-guide: Remove documentation of18:13
CIA-3installation-guide: base-installer/kernel/linux/initramfs-generators; setting this to18:13
CIA-3installation-guide: anything other than the default will cause the installer to fail18:13
CIA-3installation-guide: (LP: #415469).18:13
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r469 ubuntu/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Stop building for lpia.18:17
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r470 ubuntu/debian/changelog: sync up previous changelog18:22
CIA-3installation-guide: cjwatson * r471 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20081208ubuntu618:27
qizwizis this the place to ask about turnkey linux?18:37
cjwatsonno, I think you'd want a turnkey channel, if there is one (I don't know)18:44
qizwizwell, googling freenode and turnkey brought me here, sort of18:45
qizwizper this google hit: http://osdir.com/ml/linux.ubuntu.server/2008-09/msg00079.html18:45
qizwizand a scan of the first page of hits didn't indicate any #turnkey-linux :-(18:46
cjwatsonsorry, I don't think we can help you18:49
cjwatsonperhaps there is a mailing list18:49
qizwizperhaps18:49
qizwizlet me take a quick stab, though18:49
qizwizturnkey linux does not have emacs on it by default...its ubuntu 8.0.4. I don't want to foul up my TKL, but I gotta have my emacs. What's the recommended apt repository?18:50
cjwatsonI'm sorry, no idea18:51
cjwatsonI wouldn't want to try to recommend something based on Ubuntu in case I screw it up for you.  Please find somebody who knows about Turnkey ...18:52
qizwizalright. I was hoping it was a generic enough question. maybe a different debian room?18:52
cjwatsonno, you'll need something specifically turnkey.  There may simply be no appropriate IRC channel, and you'll have to try e-mail18:53
cjwatsonapt repositories are often project-specific18:53
cjwatsonnot necessarily always, but often, and I don't know whether that's the case here18:53
qizwizfeh. ok. yeah, there is a archive.turnkeylinux.org according to my sources.list (I think that's it..it's from memory yesterday)18:54
qizwizbut ther's also archive.ubuntu.com/unbuntu hardy18:55
qizwizI wonder why it's not finding it there18:55
qizwizi figured it out19:16
CIA-3console-setup: cjwatson * r135 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog control):22:29
CIA-3console-setup: Depend on kbd (>= 1.15-1ubuntu3) for a valuable loadkeys improvement.22:29
CIA-3console-setup: This was previously a recommends, but the udev rule won't work without22:29
CIA-3console-setup: kbd or console-tools anyway, I'm not really interested in supporting a22:29
CIA-3console-setup: system without either installed, and console-tools is thoroughly22:29
CIA-3console-setup: obsolete now.22:29
CIA-3console-setup: cjwatson * r136 ubuntu/debian/console-setup.console-setup.upstart: clarification of loadkeys behaviour22:30
CIA-3ubiquity: cjwatson * r3920 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/components/ubi-language.py): Fix label retranslation when clicking on update link (LP: #531864).23:51

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!