| CIA-3 | ubiquity: evand * r3919 ubiquity/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Removed the alpha warning. Welcome to Ubuntu 10.04 Beta 1. | 09:25 |
|---|---|---|
| michaelforrest | ev hallo | 10:27 |
| ev | hiya | 10:27 |
| michaelforrest | mark is happy with this version of the slideshow: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dylanmccall/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/redesign-lucid/ubuntu-transitions/slides/index.html#controls | 10:27 |
| michaelforrest | so let's get that in :) | 10:27 |
| michaelforrest | I still need to get a proper ubuntu logo though | 10:28 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: cjwatson * r133 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog console-setup.initramfs-top): Fix incorrect FONT and ACM tests in initramfs script. | 10:29 |
| ev | that's good, considering it ended up on omgubuntu last night :-/ | 10:30 |
| michaelforrest | indeed | 10:30 |
| ev | michaelforrest: did you get a hold of Marcus for that? | 10:33 |
| michaelforrest | I just emailed him | 10:33 |
| michaelforrest | and will now start hassling | 10:33 |
| michaelforrest | they have been going into super-minute detail on it this week | 10:33 |
| michaelforrest | so I think I may have to give him a chinese burn | 10:33 |
| ev | lol | 10:34 |
| michaelforrest | ev: what format do I need here? Do you think I can just send a png at the right size? | 10:45 |
| ev | svg would be preferable (so that we have the original source in the tree), but png will do if that's all you have | 10:46 |
| ev | for those playing along at home, bug 537986 is the freeze exception request for the labelled gtk entries on the user setup page | 10:53 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 537986 in ubiquity "Freeze exception request: inactive labels on the user setup page." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/537986 | 10:53 |
| cjwatson | ev: what's happening with foundations-lucid-oem-config? | 11:06 |
| ev | cjwatson: I'm going to have to defer the last bit. My time has been focused on dealing with the list of design requested changes to ubiquity. | 11:07 |
| cjwatson | which is the last bit? | 11:07 |
| cjwatson | (I forget whether the non-ascii passwords stuff happened) | 11:08 |
| ev | automatically remove language packs. I'm convinced that there are not problems with non-ascii passwords in GNOME these days. | 11:08 |
| cjwatson | didn't Dell request that bit? | 11:08 |
| cjwatson | or am I misremembering | 11:08 |
| ev | I'm not sure who requested it, actually | 11:08 |
| ev | otherwise I'd be inquiring as to why it was raised in the first place | 11:08 |
| cjwatson | superm1: were you looking for automatically installing language packs, or automatically removing them? | 11:09 |
| cjwatson | (oem-config) | 11:09 |
| ev | oh, who requested the auto remove? I think that was Dell | 11:09 |
| persia | I know that there *are* problems with non-ascii passwords in GNOME. | 11:09 |
| ev | really? | 11:09 |
| persia | Specifically for asian languages, where you need an IME. | 11:09 |
| ev | can you give me a test case? | 11:09 |
| persia | The issues are twofold: | 11:09 |
| ev | IME doesn't work in ubiquity | 11:09 |
| persia | 1) In GDM, it doesn't capture keystrokes fed to the IME to block timeout for timed logins. | 11:10 |
| cjwatson | right, so you can't enter IME-requiring passwords in the first place | 11:10 |
| persia | 2) gnome-screensaver doesn't permit unlock. | 11:10 |
| ev | I couldn't get ibus to talk to it | 11:10 |
| persia | Oh, then you've already solved it differently :) | 11:10 |
| cjwatson | the comment in the specification is "non-ascii passwords are allowed in ubiquity, but disallowed in later password prompts like gksudo" | 11:10 |
| cjwatson | anyway, I agree that part can be dropped without major issue | 11:11 |
| ev | for what it's worth, I did try gksudo and it worked fine with the set of characters I tried | 11:11 |
| persia | That doesn't match my experience with it, but if ubiquity doesn't support an IME, it doesn't matter. Non-IME non-ascii seems to work OK. | 11:11 |
| cjwatson | for removing language packs, I'm inclined to say defer to beta-2 and I'll offer to do it? | 11:11 |
| ev | if we defer it to beta 2, I'm happy to do it | 11:11 |
| persia | Note that this is a regression from jaunty, where ubiquity *did* support the IME. | 11:11 |
| ev | I don't want to dump things on you | 11:11 |
| cjwatson | what goes around comes around :) | 11:12 |
| ev | hahaha | 11:12 |
| cjwatson | I probably deserve it, but whatever | 11:12 |
| ev | I don't recall you ever dumping anything on me | 11:12 |
| ev | persia: I'm not very familiar with IME. Did ibus exist in jaunty and did it communicate over dbus? | 11:13 |
| cjwatson | used to be scim, which probably wasn't dbus | 11:14 |
| persia | ev: jaunty was scim, which used the GTK IM extensions. | 11:14 |
| ev | ah, so I suspect that's why then | 11:14 |
| persia | Indeed. | 11:14 |
| ev | someday, when someone is crazy enough to rewrite ubiquity to talk to its frontend over dbus, all of this will go away | 11:15 |
| persia | I'll give it a fiddle at some point, and maybe point some of the IME devs at it, but not likely in time for lucid. | 11:15 |
| ev | and we'll all ride unicorns off into the sunset | 11:15 |
| ev | cool | 11:15 |
| persia | That will indeed be a great day :) | 11:15 |
| persia | Oh, I should ask, rather than flailing more, is there a good way to get per-locale reconfiguration done after selecting language during install? | 11:18 |
| persia | I would have thought to do it in casper, but with the new interface, I'm no longer sure this is the right answer. | 11:18 |
| === _ruben_ is now known as _ruben | ||
| ev | is what you're trying to do specific to a particular project, or is it general enough to be carried in Ubuntu proper? If the latter, you could modify the end of bin/ubiquity-dm (or I suppose we could add a hook for post-greeter steps) | 11:20 |
| persia | It's bug #531155 | 11:20 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 531155 in casper "gedit schemas is not registered during live session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/531155 | 11:20 |
| persia | This ends up propagating into new installs too, forcing dpkg-reconfigure or use of the alternate installer. | 11:21 |
| persia | I suspect there's a few other packages that have locale-specific logic in postinst. | 11:21 |
| persia | (but gedit is the one that people complained about to me) | 11:21 |
| persia | Does that belong in ubiquity-dm ? | 11:22 |
| ev | definitely not ubiquity-dm then if it's affecting installs | 11:25 |
| ev | I would imagine casper still | 11:25 |
| ev | oh | 11:25 |
| ev | no, that's obviously wrong | 11:26 |
| ev | ignore me | 11:26 |
| persia | Do we know the locale in casper still? I thought we didn't know it anymore because of the new gfxboot | 11:26 |
| ev | indeed, we don't | 11:26 |
| ev | I just didn't think that through enough before I started talking | 11:26 |
| ev | hrm | 11:26 |
| persia | I asked the reporter to file against casper because it would have been casper in karmic (and I hadn't looked at the lucid stuff enough at the time) | 11:26 |
| persia | But I'm now convinced it's the wrong place. | 11:27 |
| persia | I'm also convinced it's not a bug in gedit, because it's hard to detect encodings, so we want a narrow set for each locale. | 11:27 |
| persia | (this will annoy folks who use one locale with documents from a different locale, but that's not a well supported use case right now anyway) | 11:28 |
| cjwatson | I'd say it's a bug in gedit for depending on the system locale rather than the user locale? | 11:29 |
| cjwatson | (if I'm understanding correctly - I'm just going on the conversation above, haven't checked the bug) | 11:30 |
| persia | cjwatson: Essentially, gedit sets it's import filter lists at install time. I can see that argument, and can certainly go reopen the bug seb closed previously :) | 11:30 |
| persia | (which was actually about cross-locale usage, and so somewhat different) | 11:30 |
| persia | But I like the interpretation of it being a gedit bug. | 11:31 |
| ev | michaelforrest: do you recall what we agreed to call the "Zone:" label now that the "Region:" label is gone? - http://people.canonical.com/~evand/screenshots/ubiquity/9.10-beta-candidate/2-timezone.png | 11:33 |
| michaelforrest | Yah "Time Zone" | 11:44 |
| ev | ah, duh | 11:57 |
| ev | thanks | 11:57 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: cjwatson * r134 ubuntu/ (5 files in 2 dirs): | 12:32 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: Move boot tasks to a combination of two udev rules and a single Upstart | 12:32 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: job, ensuring that they're run at points when we are able to satisfy the | 12:32 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: constraints on the relevant ioctls. This may not work optimally with | 12:32 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: vgacon, but you have to go to special effort to use that with Ubuntu | 12:32 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: now, and it at least shouldn't break (LP: #524439). | 12:32 |
| ev | bah, it's not possible to do something like strftime %X, but without seconds, is it? | 12:51 |
| cjwatson | ev: difficult. no, there doesn't seem to be | 12:58 |
| cjwatson | the separator isn't always : either | 12:58 |
| ev | indeed | 12:58 |
| ev | so looks like we're stuck with it unless we start providing a translation string for time format | 12:59 |
| ev | but I think that's a bit much | 12:59 |
| cjwatson | for instance, as far as I can tell, in Chinese, you have something like 12时59分58秒 | 13:00 |
| cjwatson | how does the panel clock applet do it? | 13:00 |
| cjwatson | it has a "Show seconds" checkbox | 13:00 |
| cjwatson | maybe it's just locale-incorrect ... | 13:00 |
| ev | does it? I have radio buttons for 12 hour and 24 hour time, despite being in en_GB.utf8 | 13:00 |
| ev | hrm, I'll dig through its source though | 13:01 |
| ev | maybe there's a trick to this | 13:01 |
| ev | or maybe gtk already does the gettext thing | 13:01 |
| cjwatson | I have it set to not show seconds to avoid it waking up every second and sucking power | 13:02 |
| ev | heh | 13:03 |
| ev | #. Translators: This is a strftime format string. | 13:06 |
| ev | #. * It is used to display the time in 12-hours format | 13:06 |
| ev | #. * (eg, like in the US: 8:10 am). The %p expands to | 13:06 |
| ev | #. * am/pm. | 13:06 |
| ev | #. Translators: This is a strftime format string. | 13:06 |
| ev | #. * It is used to display the time in 12-hours format (eg, like | 13:06 |
| ev | #. * in the US: 8:10 am). The %p expands to am/pm. | 13:06 |
| ev | #. | 13:06 |
| ev | #: ../applets/clock/calendar-window.c:303 ../applets/clock/clock.c:445 | 13:06 |
| ev | #: ../applets/clock/clock-location-tile.c:516 | 13:06 |
| ev | msgid "%l:%M %p" | 13:06 |
| ev | erm actually, not quite what we want | 13:06 |
| cjwatson | we want appropriate-hours rather than 12/24-hours | 13:06 |
| cjwatson | I think | 13:06 |
| ev | indeed | 13:07 |
| cjwatson | you might be able to get that from nl_langinfo though? | 13:07 |
| ev | I don't think so, at least not that I can see. My thought is to provide ubiquity/timezone_strftime_format, translated to %l:%M %p for en_US, and %k:%M for en_GB. | 13:34 |
| ev | granted, that means we can't simply import translations from gnome-panel | 13:40 |
| ev | hrm | 13:40 |
| ev | though we could use this with the aforementioned strings from gnome-panel: http://paste.ubuntu.com/394018/ | 13:42 |
| * persia idly notes that there are locales that use neither 12-hour nor 24-hour time by convention (well outside the scope of this issue) | 13:54 | |
| davmor2 | persia: who uses the binary clock by default? ;) | 13:56 |
| persia | davmor2: Not that, but that here it is conventional to use numbers > 24 to denote times of day. | 13:57 |
| persia | For instance, the trains run from about 4:00 to about 25:30 | 13:57 |
| persia | (well, rather 4寺00分 to 25寺30分 | 13:58 |
| === robbiew_ is now known as robbew | ||
| === robbew is now known as robbiew | ||
| superm1 | cjwatson, its actually both, installing them if they are available and selected, and a key to remove extras that were already installed and not needed | 15:26 |
| cjwatson | ev: ^- in that case I think we need to keep this on the list but move to beta-2 | 15:28 |
| ev | cjwatson: okay | 15:28 |
| cjwatson | which indeed is what I did | 15:28 |
| cjwatson | ev: is your additional fix for bug 529366 likely to land for beta-1? and do you suspect a parted bug in and around all this? | 16:07 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 529366 in usb-creator "Regression: usb-creator-gtk doesn't work as of 0.2.16" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529366 | 16:07 |
| ev | probably not beta 1, moving the goalpost to beta 2... | 16:07 |
| ev | and no, I don't think it's really a parted bug beyond the fact that the behavior changed in 2.1 | 16:08 |
| ev | unless it's expected that you can tell the kernel to re-read the partition table with mounted partitions | 16:08 |
| ev | err s/tell/get/ | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | you used to be able to do so partially. it was a bad hack at best. | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | maybe this is why Dell has been having trouble, since I know they were relying on that bad hack for recovery installs | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | anyway, separate bug about that ... | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | it's certainly best for any software we control to avoid relying on this | 16:10 |
| ev | indeed | 16:12 |
| ev | I never thought removing seconds from a clock would require a 2,900 line patch | 16:13 |
| ev | (in fairness that's 99% translation data) | 16:13 |
| ev | cjwatson: is there a place other than the list of languages in localechooser/languagelist I should be looking at when checking for sufficient support before adding new imported translations from GTK+? There seems to be quite a few this time around. | 16:25 |
| cjwatson | languagelist is canonical | 16:26 |
| cjwatson | if we don't have base installer translations, I haven't been importing the corresponding GTK+ translations | 16:26 |
| ev | okay, thanks | 16:27 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r463 ubuntu/ (build/entities/common.ent debian/changelog): Bump release version and names for Lucid (LP: #501572). | 18:06 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r464 ubuntu/ (build/entities/common.ent debian/changelog): Bump kernelversion to 2.6.32. | 18:08 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r465 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/welcome/what-is-ubuntu.xml): Bump GNOME version to 2.30. | 18:09 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r466 ubuntu/ (build/entities/common.ent debian/changelog): Bump x11ver to 7.5. | 18:10 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r467 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/install-methods/automatic-install.xml): | 18:12 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: Remove comments about automatic installation methods that have been | 18:12 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: removed from Ubuntu (LP: #496554). | 18:12 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r468 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog en/appendix/preseed.xml): | 18:13 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: Remove documentation of | 18:13 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: base-installer/kernel/linux/initramfs-generators; setting this to | 18:13 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: anything other than the default will cause the installer to fail | 18:13 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: (LP: #415469). | 18:13 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r469 ubuntu/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Stop building for lpia. | 18:17 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r470 ubuntu/debian/changelog: sync up previous changelog | 18:22 |
| CIA-3 | installation-guide: cjwatson * r471 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20081208ubuntu6 | 18:27 |
| qizwiz | is this the place to ask about turnkey linux? | 18:37 |
| cjwatson | no, I think you'd want a turnkey channel, if there is one (I don't know) | 18:44 |
| qizwiz | well, googling freenode and turnkey brought me here, sort of | 18:45 |
| qizwiz | per this google hit: http://osdir.com/ml/linux.ubuntu.server/2008-09/msg00079.html | 18:45 |
| qizwiz | and a scan of the first page of hits didn't indicate any #turnkey-linux :-( | 18:46 |
| cjwatson | sorry, I don't think we can help you | 18:49 |
| cjwatson | perhaps there is a mailing list | 18:49 |
| qizwiz | perhaps | 18:49 |
| qizwiz | let me take a quick stab, though | 18:49 |
| qizwiz | turnkey linux does not have emacs on it by default...its ubuntu 8.0.4. I don't want to foul up my TKL, but I gotta have my emacs. What's the recommended apt repository? | 18:50 |
| cjwatson | I'm sorry, no idea | 18:51 |
| cjwatson | I wouldn't want to try to recommend something based on Ubuntu in case I screw it up for you. Please find somebody who knows about Turnkey ... | 18:52 |
| qizwiz | alright. I was hoping it was a generic enough question. maybe a different debian room? | 18:52 |
| cjwatson | no, you'll need something specifically turnkey. There may simply be no appropriate IRC channel, and you'll have to try e-mail | 18:53 |
| cjwatson | apt repositories are often project-specific | 18:53 |
| cjwatson | not necessarily always, but often, and I don't know whether that's the case here | 18:53 |
| qizwiz | feh. ok. yeah, there is a archive.turnkeylinux.org according to my sources.list (I think that's it..it's from memory yesterday) | 18:54 |
| qizwiz | but ther's also archive.ubuntu.com/unbuntu hardy | 18:55 |
| qizwiz | I wonder why it's not finding it there | 18:55 |
| qizwiz | i figured it out | 19:16 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: cjwatson * r135 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog control): | 22:29 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: Depend on kbd (>= 1.15-1ubuntu3) for a valuable loadkeys improvement. | 22:29 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: This was previously a recommends, but the udev rule won't work without | 22:29 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: kbd or console-tools anyway, I'm not really interested in supporting a | 22:29 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: system without either installed, and console-tools is thoroughly | 22:29 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: obsolete now. | 22:29 |
| CIA-3 | console-setup: cjwatson * r136 ubuntu/debian/console-setup.console-setup.upstart: clarification of loadkeys behaviour | 22:30 |
| CIA-3 | ubiquity: cjwatson * r3920 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog ubiquity/components/ubi-language.py): Fix label retranslation when clicking on update link (LP: #531864). | 23:51 |
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