[02:00] <godbyk> Hey, humphreybc
[02:18] <humphreybc> hey godbyk
[02:18] <humphreybc> i'm just checking in real quick today, have a BBQ to go to and then work tonight
[02:18] <godbyk> fun
[02:18] <humphreybc> although it is pouring down with rain
[02:18] <humphreybc> and i'd have to walk in the rain for a good 20 mins
[02:18] <godbyk> did you want me to go ahead and start mucking about with the wiki or wait for others to weigh in on things?
[02:18] <humphreybc> yeah you can start mucking around with it :)
[02:18] <godbyk> that doesn't sound like much fun.
[02:19] <godbyk> k
[02:19] <humphreybc> so i may not go to the bbq
[02:19] <humphreybc> but that means i have to find something to eat instead
[02:19] <godbyk> pizza delivery. :)
[02:19] <humphreybc> okay now it's really hosing down
[02:21] <godbyk> yeah, if I were you, I'd call and cancel and work on updating the wiki. ;-)
[02:23] <humphreybc> haha
[02:54] <humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_manual
[03:11]  * humphreybc wonders when he'll get a wikipedia page :P
[03:11] <humphreybc> anyone know how to add images to a wikipedia article?
[03:11] <humphreybc> or that side pane thing?
[03:28] <godbyk> I went through all our .tex files and make a bunch of minor edits. Just things like replacing quotation marks with their proper LaTeX forms, replacing obsolete commands with their new versions, replacing --- with \dash, etc.
[03:28] <godbyk> So my question is, how many people will I cause trouble for if I commit these changes?
[03:28] <godbyk> Should I instead just email the list and have the authors handle this in their own chapters?
[03:30] <humphreybc> cool
[03:30] <humphreybc> nah just push it, it'll be okay
[03:31] <humphreybc> if you're just changing the commands then it should be okay
[03:35] <godbyk> 'kay.
[03:37] <godbyk> okay, pushed.
[03:38] <godbyk> let the screams of anguish begin!
[03:40] <humphreybc> haha
[08:06] <jaminday> godbyk: you still around?
[08:59] <thorwil> good morning!
[09:27] <jaminday> mornin' thorwil
[11:00] <humphreybc> what's new everyone?
[18:25] <dutchie> http://www.michaels-website.de/gedit-latex-plugin/
[18:40] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie have you tried it? I am about to install it.
[18:44] <dutchie> trying it now out of svn
[18:44] <dutchie> <-- hardcore vim user though
[18:45] <ubuntujenkins> I am trying it from a .tar
[18:46] <ubuntujenkins> do you know what it means when it says select a master?
[18:47] <dutchie> nope
[18:50] <dutchie> seems to work OK
[18:51] <ubuntujenkins> I have enabled it and guessed which was the master file I will see how it goes
[18:54] <dutchie> didn't ask me anything about master files
[18:55] <ubuntujenkins> every time I open gedit is says choose the master file, then you can brows your documents
[18:55] <dutchie> It has now I opened all of the *.tex files
[18:57] <ubuntujenkins> any ideas what file it is asking for?
[18:58] <dutchie> main.tex seems a reasonable suggestion
[18:59] <ubuntujenkins> makes sense :-)
[19:00] <dutchie> do you have all the compile options greyed out?
[19:01] <dutchie> in the Tools menu
[19:01] <ubuntujenkins> yes
[19:01] <dutchie> this is not good
[19:01] <ubuntujenkins> maybe main.tex isn't right?
[19:02]  * dutchie concludes that this is a massive faff on Karmic 
[19:02] <dutchie> Lucid time!
[19:02] <ubuntujenkins> one step ahead of you
[19:03] <dutchie> it's on my netbook
[19:03] <dutchie> now what did I do with that USB stick?
[19:08] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie you need rubber installed to be able to use the compile options
[19:08] <dutchie> to install rubber, the latex packages need installing
[19:09] <ubuntujenkins> yep
[19:09] <dutchie> the latex packages in karmic are not up-to-date enough
[19:09] <ubuntujenkins> r i see I am going to try in lucid
[20:03] <thorwil> godbyk, vish: i'm really tempted to just replace https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Header?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=banner.png with http://www.foopics.com/showfull/d1a52f177732321ed646c1d5d98f87f1
[20:04] <vish> thorwil: oh thats what that was for..
[20:05] <vish> thorwil: how about adding a history wikipedia section for manual design ;) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_manual
[20:06] <thorwil> oh boy
[20:06] <vish> "Earlier designs were a farce ,  thorwil took up the recent task of bearing the burden for the new design as the design lead " ;p
[20:07] <godbyk> vish: lol.. love it!
[20:07] <vish> and the whole world fell in line
[20:07] <godbyk> looks like the wikipedia page is up for deletion, though.
[20:07] <vish> yeah , i thought so the min it was edited..
[20:07] <vish> a sad example of how wikipedia is abused :(
[20:08] <godbyk> I'll be back in a few minutes.  I need to finish composing this email about the window controls placement.
[20:08] <thorwil> vish: i'll turn to you for my biography, then ;p
[20:08] <vish> ;)
[20:10] <thorwil> there really haven't been enough mails and posts about that
[20:11] <thorwil> Ivanka must feel very lonely, like talking in an echo chamber
[20:11]  * dutchie wonders how well the http://planet.ubuntu-manual.org/ switch has been publicised
[20:14] <thorwil> dutchie: what switch?
[20:14] <dutchie> from planet.interesting.co.nz to our domain
[20:17] <godbyk> okay, email sent.
[20:18] <godbyk> I don't think it's been advertised, really.
[20:18] <godbyk> thorwil: yeah, I was just replying to Ivanka's email to the Ayatana list.
[20:19] <godbyk> The biggest frustration I see from people stems from the fact that no reasons/rationale were provided.
[20:19] <thorwil> godbyk: the communication strategy or lack thereof is really strange
[20:19] <godbyk> I was writing primarily to mention the Hicks-Hyman law as opposed to Fitts' law.
[20:20] <godbyk> thorwil: that's certainly what I find most frustrating.  I like usability stuff, so if they're trying to solve a specific problem, I'd love to hear about it.
[20:20] <thorwil> godbyk: can't be long until someone explains the weather with fitts' layw
[20:20] <godbyk> thorwil: lol, no doubt.
[20:21] <godbyk> They must teach it in elementary design classes or something.
[20:21] <thorwil> godbyk: i think demonstrating design menthods and thinking should be part of their job
[20:21] <thorwil> arg, kunt spell tonite
[20:22] <godbyk> thorwil: I'd love to see more usability-related talk from them in general.  More promotion of new specs they're writing, tests they're running, test results, etc.
[20:23]  * vish just feels this is a NIH syndrome by the UX :s and they are trying to re-invent the wheel without know what problem they are trying to solve
[20:23] <vish> knowing*
[20:24] <thorwil> godbyk: the new highlight is that the countdown banner competition has been announced, but we still don't have SVGs of the new logo-type (the design team is waiting, too, i have been told)
[20:25] <godbyk> thorwil: brilliant!
[20:27] <godbyk> Here's what I posted, for those interested: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01002.html
[20:27] <thorwil> godbyk: regarding GOMS and the mouse being slow per se, Tog thinks differently
[20:27] <godbyk> thorwil: I know. :)
[20:27]  * dutchie is subscribed :)
[20:27] <thorwil> godbyk: the problem is she should know ... ;)
[20:27] <godbyk> thorwil: heh, fair enough.
[20:28] <godbyk> Is she a UX person or a graphic designer? What's her background?
[20:28] <thorwil> http://vimeo.com/4290782
[20:29] <thorwil> godbyk: i think she talks about here background in that video
[20:33] <thorwil> electronic engineering -> software development / websites -> hci
[20:33] <godbyk> thorwil: yeah, I'm watching the video now. :)
[20:35] <thorwil> godbyk: excellent mail. good thing the ayatana list hasn't been flooded with mostly crap like her blog
[20:36] <godbyk> yeah, I kind of hope the ayatana list can stay small, so we can continue to have nice, sensible discussions there.
[20:39] <Ell> godbyk: do you still need an editor to help out for the index for the manual?
[20:39] <godbyk> Ell: yes, please!
[20:39] <godbyk> I haven't written a tutorial about the index commands yet.
[20:39] <godbyk> But if you want to jump in, start flipping through the manual and see what kinds of things should be indexed.
[20:39] <godbyk> At the moment, we're indexing application names, for instance.
[20:39] <godbyk> Are there other classes of things that should be indexed?
[20:40] <godbyk> We'll also be able to index any random thing we like, but we should be careful to ensure the index is usable and not cluttered up with things the reader isn't looking for.
[20:42] <Ell> okay I will look into it cheers
[20:42] <godbyk> Ell: thanks!  feel free to hit me up here or at kevin@ubuntu-manual.org if you have questions.
[20:44] <godbyk> thorwil: ha!  "The other big thing that we have to do as the design team within Canonical is make sure we communicate well with the community---share our data, put it out there."
[20:45] <thorwil> :)