[00:03] godbyk: hey - yeah I think I had a latex question for you but can't remember what it was now [00:03] i must have sorted it out [00:03] fair enough. :) [00:03] thanks though! [00:06] While you're here, do you know if references to Canonical need any legal qualifiers [00:06] like inc or TM or anything like that? [00:08] jaminday: I think we decided we didn't need any of that. [00:08] In the US, at least, they're not required as long as you're referring to the actual trademark. [00:09] And in some other countries, it's actually illegal to include them if they're not registered in that country. [00:09] So it seems like the safe thing to do is to leave them out. [00:09] Plus, they look ugly. :) [00:09] Ah ok, yeah I must have missed that discussion. [00:09] hehe [00:09] no worries just thought i'd better check! [00:27] Another legal thing - Benjamin references Facebook and Google as examples of websites that run unix-based servers. This is definitely true, yes? [00:31] http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Facebook's_servers_run_on_Linux [00:32] I know Google uses Linux, too. [00:34] ok cool thanks guys [01:23] humphreybc: heya [01:30] hey jaminday [01:30] did you see the top-secret future planning page? [01:31] yeah, it's looking good [01:31] haven't had any brilliant thoughts to add yet [01:31] okay [01:31] i think you've covered it pretty well so far! [01:31] remember it's top secret :P [01:31] hehe [01:31] my keyboard is sealed [01:32] :P [01:32] i've just spent the last couple of hours re-editing the prologue [01:32] just to streamline, reduce the verbosity [01:32] awesome! [01:32] i'm going to start re-doing the wiki [01:32] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPsimplification [01:32] i'm about to upload so was gonna get you to take a look [01:32] sure thing [01:33] ah cool - great idea about simplifying the wiki [01:33] it could really use it [01:34] indeed [01:56] humphreybc: hey just uploaded changes to prologue now. Can you have a read when you get the chance and check whether it's ok - happy to revert any changes that you think need it. [01:56] sure thing [01:56] i'm off to lunch for a break! [02:08] kk [02:58] hey, godbyk, you there? [02:59] humphreybc: yep [02:59] two things - could you change the manual back to everything left aligned (ie, not book format) unless you're testing stuff, and could you also increase the gap between paragraphs by a bit? [03:01] yes, and not unless you give me a really, really good reason. :) [03:02] I don't have one :P [03:02] but the paragraph spacing needs to be bigger [03:02] why? [03:03] it looks odd with the indentation but with no spacing [03:04] ?! [03:04] lol [03:04] just try it with one line spacing, and we'll see how it looks [03:04] when marking paragraphs, you either indent, or you add line spacing, never both at the same time. [03:05] well, remove the indentation and we'll see what it looks like with spacing? [03:05] :) [03:09] humphreybc: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-parskip.pdf [03:12] apart from the contents, that does look nicer [03:12] and the section headers/itemized lists and stuff are all screwed up [03:12] but the paragraphs look good [03:12] well, the contents and some other things are using the \parindent value (which I've just set to 0pt), so that'll be a bit funky. [03:13] yu [03:13] yup [03:13] but yeah it looks better with spacing instead of indentation [03:13] in my opinion :) [03:13] if you can convince me why we should use indentation, then we'll do that [03:13] I'm not that picky about it at the moment. We'll see what I think after I've fixed up some other things. [03:14] cool [03:14] You're just not allowed to both indent and space. :) [03:14] okay [03:14] well spacing > indentation [03:14] have you had some time to play around with those 800x600 shots? [03:14] It increases the number of pages in the manual, too. [03:14] it does [03:14] Not yet, but I'm going to soon. [03:15] cool [03:15] We should start taking the screenshots for the English version -- even if they're just temporary. [03:15] we may have to put the manual on a diet [03:15] That way we can see how big the PDF is getting and how many pages it takes. [03:15] yeah, well if the goddamn UX team decides what theme they want it would help a lot [03:15] have we got a finalized list of screenshots with decent descriptions? [03:16] oh yeah it's not too ad [03:16] bad* [03:16] Not yet. But it'd be good to test with what we've got. [03:16] kk [03:16] That'll help us work out the bugs before we try to handle the thousands of screenshots we'll have in the end. :) [03:17] well i'll set it all up and then we can tell everyone else [03:17] k [03:18] how's quickshot coming along? will we be able to use it for 10.04? [03:18] Red_HamsterX: how's quickshot coming along? [03:22] This week was quite hectic. I've got window and fullscreen support working fine, with automated cropping, but I haven't had time to sit down and work out the best way to properly hide bzr from the client yet. [03:23] sounds good :) [03:23] do you think it'll be usable in time for 10.04? [03:24] I still believe it will be usable, yes. I can hack something into place if time starts to seem tight, just to get the backend working. [03:24] I'm not sure how the frontend is coming along, though. [03:24] I didn't notice any commits this week. [03:26] okay :) [03:26] appreciate the work [04:08] humphreybc: do you want to work on the wiki stuff tonight? [04:09] yeah i will do [04:09] getting there :P [04:10] 'kay. gimme a holler if you want help. [04:10] heh [04:10] my efficiency has taken a nosedive this past week [04:10] i've hardly got anything done and it's really bad [04:11] same here. [04:11] I think I just kinda ran out of steam. [04:11] I'm trying to slog through the redesign stuff this weekend so it's done and out of the way. [04:12] yeah, i know how you feel [04:21] humphreybc: you get a chance to look at the changes to prologue? [04:22] jaminday: i had a skim read but have yet to have a proper look [04:22] i'm having a very lazy sunday [04:22] lol [04:22] hehe [04:22] yeah no worries [04:22] just let me know if you find any issues whenever you get around to it [04:22] sure [04:22] i'm planning on having a shower soon and then actually cracking into some work [04:23] because right now i am probably the most inefficient and unproductive member of the UMP team :P [04:23] hehe yeah everyone's entitled to a little slacking off now and then! I just made banana butterscotch pudding so that will keep me going for a while [04:23] nic! [04:23] nice* [04:23] do you bake? [04:24] nope! [04:24] i just really wanted to eat it, so my wife said if i want it, then i can make it [04:24] hehe [04:24] hahaha [04:24] i can make a killer banana cake [04:24] ooh nice [04:25] and pretty good fudge too [04:25] mmm you are making me hungry... only 30 mins to go and i can get stuck into my pudding! [04:28] lol [04:31] * godbyk wonders if banana cake is the same as banana bread. [04:35] sort of [05:15] humphreybc: how attached are you to the part 1 and part 2 bits? Can we just leave out the parts? (so we only have chapter headings) [05:15] huh? [05:16] can I kill \part{Getting Started} and \part{Advanced topics}? [05:16] it'll remove the TOC entries and the Part I: Getting Started and Part II: Advanced topics pages. [05:16] I don't think they're particularly helpful to the reader. [05:17] and they're rather awkward design-wise at the moment. [05:18] godbyk: yeah i was thinking the same... [05:19] cool. since humphreybc's clueless, I'll just do it and he can yell at me later when he realizes what I've done. ;-) [05:19] hehe [05:19] sure remove them [05:20] sorry guys i'm totally trying to do too many things at once [05:38] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ubuntubusinesscard.png [05:39] Hey, vish, you around? [05:40] humphreybc: nice. why three out of five pips? [05:41] no idea [05:41] lol [05:41] that's what martin used [05:41] http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/ubuntu-business-card/ [05:41] read the first sentence and click on the link [05:41] i just grabbed his thing because i don't know much about SVG [05:41] Inkscape * [05:41] Hey godbyk, do we have a latex command for mentioning where to click on a website? I'm using quotation marks at the moment but there is probably something prettier [05:42] humphreybc: I like yours better than Martins. [05:42] Martin's. [05:42] :) [05:42] now that i think about it, i have a reason for the 3/5 pips [05:42] jaminday: I don't think we do. Quotes are probably fine. [05:42] in the pips, the 3 on the left are orange, two on the right are white [05:43] in the name, the first name is white, the second name is orange [05:43] it balances out the name somewhat [05:43] humphreybc: I'd get 4/5 pips just to one-up you. [05:43] hahaa [05:43] godbyk: thanks no worries i'll keep it at that then [05:43] that could be your rating in the community [05:43] Mark would have 5/5 [05:43] I'd have 1/5 :P [05:50] godbyk: hei [05:50] vish: now what was I going to ask you? :) [05:51] lol.. [05:51] humphreybc: I just did a commit but now getting the message that branches have diverged and I cannot push [05:51] how do i fix this again? [05:52] uuuuuuuuuuum [05:52] bzr merge? [05:52] backup what you've changed first though [05:52] yeah i will [05:53] vish: it was something about icons or graphics... [05:53] lemme scroll through the code and see if it triggers anything. [05:54] hmmm... i tried merge but getting the same message. It's asking if i want to overwrite when i go to push - should i say yes? [05:54] aha! [05:54] vish: can you get me icons for the \advanced and \warning call-outs? [05:54] jaminday: sure [05:55] if you destroy everything it's not the end of the world... [05:55] O.o [05:55] godbyk: i thought icons were dropped.. [05:55] hehe [05:55] who said icons were dropped? [05:55] vish: I think only the per-chapter icons were dropped. [05:55] wait when did we decide on this? [05:56] humphreybc: I think you were having banana cake at the time or something. ;-) [05:56] godbyk: ah, this advanced/warnings is for the boxes ? [05:56] vish: yep, those. [05:56] lol [05:56] i think we should keep the chapter icon idea [05:56] humphreybc: we couldn't come up with really good icons for all the chapters. [05:56] as long as we can easily find icons for each chapter [05:57] really? [05:57] that sucks [05:57] let's have another brainstorm :) [05:58] humphreybc: btw think i got it sorted [05:58] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPicons [05:58] jaminday: sweetbix [05:58] btw#2 my banana butterscotch pudding was freakin awesome [06:00] godbyk: what color and size did we want them in? [/me tuned out a bit too] [06:01] vish: good question. color should probably match the color scheme when end up going with. (whatever that is) [06:01] godbyk, vish, i've come up with rough icon ideas for all chapters bar two [06:01] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPicons [06:02] vish: size should be scalable. something simple enough that inkscape can export to pdf easily would be best. [06:03] humphreybc: Here's what thorwil came up with a while back: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/hgBlhqyoMH [06:03] oh [06:03] that's useful. [06:11] vish, are you in the pad thing [06:11] ? [06:11] yeah [06:11] cool [06:12] ideas for the other ones? [06:12] ie, installation? default apps? security? [06:12] so what do you think should be done with these icons when we have them? [06:13] i'll show you, hang on [06:14] icons are not needed , they are just distractions IMO [06:15] get the layout and other stuff right , use only icons for the tooltips which need to attract the attention [06:15] they're pretty distractions [06:16] if they're used, they should be strictly limited to the chapter opening, and even then they should be very subdued and unobtrusive. [06:19] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon.png [06:19] obviously we'd fiddle with the position and size [06:21] you'd have to move it into the margin area so the chapter title doesn't interfere with it. [06:21] also, I'd recommend making it more of a watermark. [06:21] and grayscale. [06:23] either that or we could have them something like this: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon2.png [06:26] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon3.png [06:27] I like the last one, large grayscale watermark [06:30] the last one is closer to what I had in mind. [06:31] larger and less opaque, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon4.png [06:31] what do we think? [06:35] you could try letting part of the icon fall off the edge of the page. [06:36] i just came back. I'm not a design person but i had a look and i really like the last one - watermark style [06:40] godbyk: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon5.png [06:40] i also like #4 [06:40] could go off the top edge, too. [06:40] true [06:40] we'd have to adjust each icon accordingly, though.. [06:41] the circle of friends isn't the best logo for demonstrating the cut off though [06:41] some may not be as recognizable if you chop off 3/4 of them. [06:41] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon6.png [06:42] it would look better with other logos where there is more stuff in the middle [06:43] I'm doing a bunch of reworking of the interior design. [06:44] playing around with basing our doc on the tufte-book class instead of the latex book class (since it gives us some handy things for free). [06:44] Do you prefer fully-justified text or ragged right? [06:44] http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-justified.pdf [06:44] http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-ragged.pdf [06:45] with a different icon: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon7.png [06:46] hmmm [06:46] what is it at the moment? [06:46] i think justified is more formal rihgt [06:47] you know the margin in those ones is huge right? [06:47] godbyk: pushed the advanced and the warning icons , to graphics/ , the old ones had transparency and stuff , which would mess up the pdf .. [06:47] old warning icon* [06:47] have there been any studies or research on what people prefer or what's easier to read with justified vs. ragged? [06:47] justified is a bit more formal-looking, yeah. [06:48] night all, i'm off for the night, gotta give my head a rest [06:48] re: the margin, kinda. it's easier to read the main text with the shorter measure and gives us more room for stuff in the margin (since we have a lot of side notes and the screenshot captions will go there) [06:48] g'night, jaminday [06:49] vish: thanks! I'll pull those in. [06:49] humphreybc: i did an overhaul of first part of chapter 1 RE getting hold of ubuntu CD image etc so you might want to check that out as well [06:49] jaminday: you're heading to bed early! [06:49] cheers godbyk [06:49] jaminday: cool [06:49] humphreybc: hehe no not off to bed yet, will probably watch a movie with my wife or something [06:49] godbyk: i think the margin is a bit giant now [06:49] groovy [06:50] cool, i'm off! [06:55] godbyk, which one of the 7 proposals for chapter icons is the hardest to implement in latex? [06:56] 7? [06:57] they're all about the same. [06:58] if someone pre-scales and crops them and does all the graphics work first, then it's easy for me to pull them into latex and insert them in the upper right-hand corner of the page. [07:05] vish: I converted your SVG icons to PDF with inkscape and they look like crap. Can you give it a shot? [07:06] hmm , that means pdf is not able to handle gradients either :/ [07:06] I don't know if it's a limitation in PDF or an issue with inkscape. [07:07] godbyk, so it doesn't matter having text over the top of an image? [07:08] humphreybc: nope. I'll have latex place the image on the page after it's done laying out the text. [07:08] btw, what does everyone think about thorwil's title pages? any preferences? [07:08] groovy [07:08] brb [07:09] godbyk: do you have the pdf? let me see whats gone wrong [07:10] I don't like any of the ones he has posted on his blog [07:10] I like a combination of the things he has [07:10] but he hasn't got one that uses all of them :P [07:11] so I like the purple icons, without the curvy thing at the top or bottom, and dots in place of the wave at the bottom - but less dots, and centered [07:13] godbyk: alrighty , i'v made a bit of change , pushed a new change gain , lets see if pdf likes it [07:13] again* [07:13] "Again, the fine dot patterns suggests a more enterprise focus" from Mark's post [07:13] we want a wide spaced dot pattern [07:13] because we're not appealing to the enterprise customers, and we're not written by canonical [07:14] we're a community effort for the community [07:14] same for the purple vs orange === ianto is now known as Guest15682 [07:14] orange is more community, purple (aubergine) is more enterprise === Guest15682 is now known as ianto [07:18] I'm back. [07:18] I hate to re-bait and reset the mouse traps. [07:18] Total mouse body count from last night and tonight: 5. [07:19] vish: I'll pull and covert again. one sec. [07:19] godbyk, sounds like the mice like your house [07:20] humphreybc: yeah, they showed up last week out of the blue. [07:20] random [07:21] vish: still fails. see http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/advanced.pdf and http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/warning.pdf [07:21] I'm just using inkscape, opening the svg, save as..., pdf. [07:22] humphreybc: they seem to like my peanut butter, though. [07:22] lol [07:24] hmm , we need to just be plain and simple , geez why does everyone just like the glyph icons ! ;p [07:24] did we ever decide on justified vs. ragged right? [07:24] godbyk: how does thorwil do it? [07:24] vish: how does he do what? [07:25] * vish likes justified [07:25] godbyk: the export to pdf , seems to be working for him properly [07:25] vish: no gradients. [07:25] simple line drawings. [07:26] hmm , i recall he mentioned gradients were fine only transparency was the problem , let me try again [07:26] * humphreybc is going to get a chicken burger from willowbank [07:26] we could alternatively use png. as long as it looks okay at whatever resolution we export it at and it doesn't bloat our manual's PDF size too much. [07:26] godbyk, no we didn't [07:26] humphreybc: we didn't what? [07:26] decide on just/ragged [07:27] hehe , everyone is talking to godbyk telegraphically ;p [07:28] humphreybc's asynchronous responses confuse and frighten me! :-P [07:28] lol [07:28] i think justified [07:28] but dem margins are too wide man [07:28] I'm just a simple caveman hacker. I don't understand your ways! [07:30] 165 pages now hu [07:30] huh* [07:30] wow [07:30] * humphreybc is getting chicken burger, bvs [07:30] bbs* [07:40] godbyk: test the nogradient icons , they work now.. [07:40] pdf comes out fine for me [07:41] did you push the changes? [07:41] just pushed [07:41] bzr is too slow for realtime ;) [07:42] ah, there they are. [07:43] nom nom this is one good burger [07:47] hey godbyk, any tips on how to reduce server power usage? [07:47] vish: those are working now. thanks! [07:48] np.. [07:48] humphreybc: depends on what the power is being used for. [07:48] ? [07:48] my server is going down for about 30 mins while i reduce the power :P [07:48] and optimize it [07:48] so those images won't work [07:49] humphreybc: try running powertop.. it'll make recommendations. (not sure if it works when you're on AC.. might require battery power, I'm not sure.) [07:50] i mean physical power reductions, i'm unplugging the optical drives and removing some unused PCI cards [07:50] Latest iteration (with vish's icons): http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf [07:50] humphreybc: ah, that'll help, too. [07:51] humphreybc: can't pay the electric bill? :) [07:53] humphreybc: also, replace the power supply with an 80plus power supply: http://www.80plus.org/ they're more efficient. [07:56] lol [07:56] i don't want to spend money! [07:57] i just want cheap tips and tweaks to improve power usage :P [07:57] but spending money will save you money. :) [07:57] trade off aint worth it xD [07:58] it's got a 370W PSU right now [08:05] i might get some of this to reduce noise [08:05] http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=346582 [08:06] i'm a bit concerned about heat though [08:06] i've got the CPU fan and the PSU fan running [08:07] CPU fan is plugged into the CPU fan plug which has a BIOS setting to switch speed based on load [08:07] I also have a side-case fan installed, but I've unplugged that because it was a bit noisy, and to save power. I've been putting my hand by the exhaust fan for the last few days and it's been really cool, so I'm pretty sure I can get by without the side fan [08:07] but the mats might increase the heat [08:09] can you afford to slow the fans down? that'd reduce noise. [08:10] probably [08:10] but i can't slow the PSU fan [08:10] and the CPU fan is already going as slow as it lets it go [08:10] it's not particularly noisy at all [08:10] I might buy this acoustic pad stuff though, it's only $36 with free delivery and comes with quite a bit [08:11] I could undervolt the CPU? [08:11] (to save power) [08:11] can you run CPU's without a fan? [08:14] you'd have to check with your cpu manufacturer about that. [08:14] depends on the heat they put out and what kind of cooling options you have for that socket type. [08:16] i've always thought it was incredibly risky to run them without a fan [08:25] * humphreybc just bought two 320GB HDDs for $100 [08:26] how easy is it to format drives from the command line? [08:28] http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf [08:28] I turned the \screenshotTODOs into floats and now they have captions, too. [08:29] exciting! [08:33] but no actual shots yet? [08:35] nope, not yet. [08:35] I'll give some of those a try in a sec. [08:36] do the shots you took correspond to some of the shots in the manual? [08:36] gonna do a big commit. we'll see who I cause problems for. :) [08:40] okay, changes pushed. [08:41] if you guys get a sec, would you try compiling the PDF? (if it complains of missing packages, run the pkgs/install-pkgs.sh script, then try again. if it still fails, tell me about it.) [08:50] Okay, I've done enough damage for one day. I'm heading to bed. [08:50] G'night! [08:56] crap [08:56] i think it's broken [08:56] the keyboard won't work anymore either [08:58] well, it works, just not with the server [08:58] i'm going to hard reset the bios.. [09:01] oh, it seemed to not like the CD roms being unplugged [09:04] ext4 does definitely not like being shutdown unexpectedly [09:08] aha, so it didn't boot up because the primary drive was unplugged [09:08] so i need to change the primary drive from the DVD drive to the HDD [09:13] good ol' IDE [09:14] good part-of-day! [09:15] hi thorwil! [09:20] humphreybc: i wonder why you never replied to https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00906.html, but now have a mail on chapter icons [09:21] http://humphreybc.homeip.net doesn't load here :/ [09:23] o/ [09:25] lol hang on [09:25] server is down atm [09:25] should load now [09:25] does [09:25] :) [09:26] ah, technology. I can plug in a computer and turn it on and all the way on the other side of the world someone can see the files stored on it. [09:26] * humphreybc is looking forward to his 2x 320GB HDDs and acoustic padding arriving so he can continue pimping the server [09:27] humphreybc, godbyk: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon2.png or http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon3.png / http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon7.png [09:28] second one [09:28] i quite like: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon4.png [09:28] that is, if at all [09:29] chaptericon3.png [09:30] * humphreybc restarting the server [09:30] back up in about 2 minutes [09:31] ....and it's back up [09:34] 09:34:02 up 39 days, 12:02, 4 users, load average: 0.20, 0.07, 0.01 [09:35] 4 users huh? [09:36] but do you have a fancy page to tell you those stats? [09:36] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/phpsysinfo [09:36] 4 users are 4 instances of me [09:37] hahaha [09:37] okay [09:38] it's like... dutchie-server 413 users [09:38] 413 users! man your server must be popular! [09:38] dutchie: nah, it's just 413 instances of me [09:39] $ ssh vps who [09:39] jrh pts/1 2010-02-22 18:30 (78.150.76.153:S.0) [09:39] jrh pts/2 2010-02-02 21:31 (78.150.76.153:S.1) [09:39] jrh pts/3 2010-02-02 21:32 (78.150.76.153:S.2) [09:39] jrh pts/4 2010-02-26 23:02 (78.150.76.153:S.3) [09:39] \o/ [09:39] lol [09:39] so i got two 320GB HDDs off trademe for $100 [09:39] so I'll have about 1.2TB of space soon :) [09:40] and then i got some exciting noise reducing 5mm thick pad things [09:40] so it'll be really exciting [09:42] * humphreybc can't wait to build his own house one day. it will have a mint server-controlled heating system [09:46] * humphreybc still hasn't done the wiki overhaul [09:47] balsfhasg [09:57] * humphreybc thought that he had a lot of karma... [09:57] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors [10:03] godbyk, you know there are a couple of compile time errors in the title and author? [10:31] so this is what Canonical does in their spare time... http://www.flickr.com/photos/iain/sets/72157622861379369/ [10:31] :P === iant0 is now known as ianto [20:07] hi @all [20:08] hey, daker. how's it going? [20:08] fine [20:09] so i want to create a new project for the website [20:09] i have made a lot of things this week end [20:09] hello everyone [20:10] hi ubuntujenkins [20:10] hi daker what stuff have you made for the website? [20:10] hi all [20:10] hello thorwil [20:11] godbyk: there's still just "Advanced" and "Warning" as special sections in need of icons, right? [20:11] thorwil: So far, yeah. [20:11] vish provided me with a couple icons for them yesterday. [20:11] ubuntujenkins, http://10.30.236.83/daker-remake/ [20:12] thorwil: have you seen the updated manual with the new layout stuff yet? [20:12] daker the link is broken acording to chromium [20:12] oki [20:13] one minute [20:13] godbyk: what is vish thinking, not letting me know ... can you show them to me? [20:13] godbyk: nope [20:13] thorwil hei! [20:14] thorwil: sure, they're in the bzr repository. graphics/warning.pdf and graphics/advanced.pdf [20:14] thorwil: i got pinged today morning , and i just did them since i had time.. and you werent around either :( [20:14] feel free to change 'em. I'm not picky. I just wanted something I could drop in to get rid of the ! and !! placeholders. [20:15] vish: it's all good. my own fault to have some work on that sleeping on my hd [20:16] thorwil: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf [20:16] I still have plenty of work to do, but it's getting there. [20:17] we should figure out what's up with the chapter headings soon so I don't have to panic about it later. :) [20:17] thorwil: lol , its yesterday for godbyk but it was morning for us ;) , noon for me rather ;p [20:18] yeah, it's 15:18 on Sunday for me right now. [20:20] vish: we will use the !-triangle in any case. though i made it monochrome [20:21] thorwil: i dont see the point of those icons being monochrome , the warning needs to attract attention [20:24] vish: it will, in yellow/orange [20:24] godbyk: what's open about the chapter headings? [20:25] thorwil: anyways , if anyone asks me to do stuff , i'll tell them to run it by you first :) [20:25] heh [20:26] thorwil: well the entire design is up in the air at the moment. waiting to hear what's going on re: per-chapter icons and, if we're going with them, where they'll be placed, etc. [20:27] vish, godbyk: this is what i was about to put on my blog: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/1150a8b26fb909c47aa9469291f4ed44 [20:27] ubuntujenkins, try now http://10.30.236.83/daker-remake/ [20:27] still broken daker [20:27] chit [20:28] daker: the 10.x.x.x IP address is internal only. you'll have to give us your external ip address. [20:29] thorwil: cool. the \advanced icon will be the most difficult one, I think. [20:29] godbyk, that's right [20:29] thorwil: what is the ladder for? [20:30] vish: the icons on the second row are attempts to indicate 'advanced' [20:30] right [20:30] ;s [20:30] thorwil: also , since the warning is yellow on white , have a darker border.. [20:31] which would probably be the same as the current one :( [20:31] How do other manuals do it? [20:31] I know that Knuth's TeX manual using a 'dangerous bend' icon for warnings and advanced material: http://www.truetex.com/db.htm [20:31] godbyk: i recall seeing spanners for advanced.. [20:32] He uses one dangerous bend for advanced material and two dangerous bend icons for super-advanced material. [20:32] do we really need a right margin that wide? [20:33] dutchie: nag, nag, nag. :) [20:33] heh [20:33] I haven't decided yet. It's the default margins in the tufte-book class, which is based on the book design used in Edward Tufte's books. [20:34] he makes more extensive use of marginal material that we do at the moment. [20:34] but I wanted to shorten the measure of the main text block at any rate. [20:36] great. a quick image search reveals 3 different dangerous-bend signs [20:36] is command-line/.command-line.tex.properties.xml generated by something of godbyk's? [20:37] dutchie: now that I'm aware of.. [20:38] nothing seems to have been broken by killing it [20:39] dutchie: I don't see that file here. did your editor create it? [20:39] don't think so [20:39] ah, I see others like it here, though. [20:39] Red_HamsterX: A while ago it was said to change the combo box in in the screenshot choosing window to something else. what was the reasoning behind that? [20:40] I'll see if I can figure out where they come from [20:43] ubuntujenkins, I don't recall any of the specifics associated with this discussion. I think titeuf is who you'd want to speak to. [20:44] ok thank you I will ask him when he is next around [20:44] ubuntujenkins: was it changing the dropdown box (containing the list of screenshots) to a list box? [20:45] It was godbyk, that was it. [20:45] ubuntujenkins: the reasoning behind that would be that drop-down boxes that contain a huge list of items are hard to use, and using a list box is better in that case. [20:45] it makes it easier to navigate longer lists because you can see more of the context. [20:46] Now I remeber I will try and change it to make it look right [20:47] thanks [20:51] 6586 views for the Ubuntu Manual Title Page post, but very sparing feedback [20:53] thorwil: just read the ML reply , i said the same thing about having chapter icons.. we dont need them ;) [21:03] godbyk: btw, contact on your website lacks country [21:04] which site? [21:04] (too many profiles) [21:04] http://kevin.godby.org [21:04] is there a better one to link your name with? [21:04] ah, thanks. I'll fix that. [21:04] nope, you can link to my site. [21:06] if only i could write a resume like that. i can only point to examples and hope nobody asks for my CV which is such a wreck that i wouldn't hire myself [21:07] http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/ubuntu-manual-icons/ [21:09] yeah, I need to update my CV, too. I hate writing about myself. [21:11] I think I like the second column of icons.. with the black. It'll print better and has a bigger impact. [21:12] noted [21:12] good night! :) [21:13] nn o/ [22:04] ubuntujenkins, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website [22:04] * ubuntujenkins looks [22:07] daker I am confused i get bzr branch lp:~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website [22:07] bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website/". when pulling the branch [22:08] am i being silly? [22:09] I have not yet push the work [22:09] there is no branch there yet [22:09] just got it :-) [22:10] I am testing quickshot so I may acedntly log ou tin a second [22:10] sorry for the jumble I had to type fast just in case [22:15] ubuntujenkins, try now [22:16] I now have an empty folder called website [22:24] back now [22:24] ubuntujenkins: heh.. you could just change that line to: if not os.environ["USER"] == "quickshot" and not os.environ["USER"] == "luke-jennings": for now and be done with it for a while. :-) [22:24] ubuntujenkins, i dont know what's the problem [22:25] good point godbyk I keep forgetting to change it back. its very anoying [22:25] did you run bzr add daker? [22:25] yesp [22:25] daker@daker-laptop:/var/www/daker-remake$ bzr add [22:26] then bzr commit -m "chnage goes here" [22:26] ubuntujenkins: are you on the frontend or backend of things? it's been a while since I've seen the workflow on the front-end, but when I last saw it (some weeks ago), it looked like there might have been a couple unnecessary steps in there. is there a current diagram showing the user's path through the program? [22:26] ubuntujenkins, bzr commit –m "first prototype of the website" [22:26] Committing to: /var/www/daker-remake/ [22:26] Traceback (most recent call last): [22:26] File "/usr/lib/python2.6/logging/__init__.py", line 791, in emit [22:26] stream.write(fs % msg.encode("UTF-8")) [22:26] UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 80: ordinal not in range(128) [22:26] bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: "–m" "first prototype of the website" [22:27] this is bugg ? [22:27] Have a run of main and see what you think godbyk I am mostly front end the python is to hard for me. I will be interested if it works for you. btw a package call disper will be installed it allows us to deal with nvidia stuff [22:28] ubuntujenkins: how do I test quickshot and do I need to close all my programs first (so it can log out)? [22:28] wow daker that looks fun [22:29] ubuntujenkins, hhhhh [22:29] godbyk: go to the quickshot diectory where the banch is and do "quickly run" and follow thought the instructions if you have done it before do "quickly run -r" [22:30] ubuntujenkins: shall I dump my stream-of-consciousness thoughts here for ya? [22:30] daker: just to check you did "bzr commit -m "first prototype of the website"" [22:31] please do godbyk or paste bin it and then link it to me [22:31] okay. here goes: [22:31] the window doesn't need to be resizable. if you allow resizing the elements in the window should resize appropriately. right now it just ads extra padding which isn't helpful. [22:31] the Cancel button should probably be renamed Close [22:32] the about dialog says version 0.03, but the main window says version 0.02 [22:33] File > Quit should have a shortcut key (Ctrl+Q) associated with it. [22:33] might be better to go with File > Close (Ctrl+W) instead. I'd have to check the current HIG for what's proper now. [22:33] the Next and Cancel buttons are too wide. [22:34] [regretting this yet? :-)] [22:34] no this is good no one has given us much feed back on the project so far [22:35] clicking next causes the program to appear to lock up. there's no status as to what it's doing or why it's taking so long. [22:35] which next buttons that? [22:35] the first next button. while it's downloading disper in the background. [22:36] that will hopefully go, I am hoping to have disper as a dependcey [22:36] the next thing I see as the user is the dialog asking for my password, telling me it wants to install something. that's kinda scary. [22:36] okay [22:36] ubuntujenkins, any idea ? [22:37] if I cancel the password dialog and click close on the next password dialog (it's rather persistent, isn't it?), then quickshot closes without another word on the gui side. [22:37] daker i am afraid not if you did the command right then it might be a bug [22:37] the only reason I know what's going on is because I saw the console output in the terminal window. [22:37] oki [22:37] I'm letting it install disper this time. [22:38] try setting the branch up again daker [22:38] there's no progress display during the install, either. [22:38] okay, it's asking for a pwd for the quickshot user. [22:38] the text is all centered. that's bad. [22:38] thats my fault [22:38] thats easy to change [22:39] you say I should enter the password for the new user in the boxes below. there's only one box. [22:39] lol [22:39] the spacing and button positions don't follow the HIG either. [22:39] if I hit the Close button, quickshot exits without another word. [22:40] what do you expect it to say? [22:40] admit that it can't continue without creating the quickshot user. give me options to go back and create the user or to give up on the whole quickshot thing. [22:41] ok i see [22:41] there was another long delay after entering the pwd for the quickshot user. no status reports and the UI kind of freezes during that time. [22:41] on this screen it says a new user has been created called "Quickshot" with a capital Q. on the previous screen it was lowercase Q. [22:42] thats alos caused by a tempoary bit of code untill we have aproper program it has to pull the bzr branch into the quickshot user [22:42] centered text and button possitions again. [22:42] Close button has C underlined, but Login button doesn't have a shortcut key. [22:42] will clicking the login button switch users or actually log me out? [22:43] i.e., will it close all of my programs and cause me to lose work? [22:43] switch users, but just in case please save everything it has worked so far but.. [22:43] might be good to note that in this window. [22:43] I'll be back in a sec. going to hit the login button. [22:44] any luck daker? [22:44] kk godbyk [22:44] its works [22:44] * ubuntujenkins bets godbyk will mention about centred text again :-) [22:45] cool daker i will do a pull [22:45] wait a minute [22:45] kk [22:45] its not yet complet [22:45] hi is pushing right now [22:46] okay.. logged in as quickshot now. [22:46] when quickshot starts up again, it shows the same first screen as before.. [22:47] where it says it will create a new user and I'll be prompted for my password during setup, etc. [22:47] yep I will chanage text in the lable [22:47] if I'm already logged in as quickshot, then it should instead give me a 'congratulations!' dialog and continue on. [22:47] clicking next took a while. [22:47] the window disappeared for a bit. [22:48] just came back with the warning. lemme read this. [22:48] yep i can tidy that up easy [22:48] non-standard dialog layout. see the gnome hig again for details. [22:48] there's no way for me to bail out at this point.. just the OK button. [22:48] I think i need to eat the gnome hig :-) [22:48] going to hit the window's close button and see what happens. [22:48] good point [22:49] closed the window with the window control and now I'm still logged in as quickshot without any idea of what's going on. [22:49] going to restart quickshot manually from a terminal. [22:50] daker silly question which bit do i open with chrome? [22:52] okay [22:52] that didn't work well. [22:52] what happend? [22:52] just changed the screen res to something (it claims) [22:53] everything is white except the quickshot dialog [22:53] and did it? [22:53] not even sure if I'm typing in the xchat window [22:53] you are [22:53] what ? [22:53] it said if I didn't hit 'ok' (with the timeout) that it would log me out. why log me out? [22:54] brb, going to cancel quickshot and see if I can see again [22:54] okay, I'm back as me now. had to hit ctrl+alt+f1 and alt+f7 to switch back to my regular user. [22:55] daker: how do i view the website with chrome? [22:55] logging out is the only way we can restores people resolution 100% of the time. godbyk [22:55] you have a new bug if you can't see anything [22:55] yeah, everything was completely white. [22:55] I mean *completely*. [22:55] the only thing I could see was the quickshot window. [22:55] I could hit alt+tab and see the windows in the switcher list. [22:55] ubuntujenkins, you have to install a lamp server [22:56] you were typing in xchat still. that is very strange [22:56] then I just waved my mouse around until it changed to the text insert I-beam cursor and typed into xchat. [22:56] I've got a dual-head setup with an nvidia card. [22:57] I have tested it on dual head it should work [22:57] daker i will see if I have enough space to instal one [22:57] I'll try to switch back to the quickshot user and see if it's any better. [22:57] one sec [22:57] godbyk: can you open a terminal and do disper -l an post please [22:58] $ disper -l [22:58] display DFP-0: Samsung SyncMaster [22:58] resolutions: 320x240, 400x300, 416x312, 512x384, 576x432, 680x384, 640x480, 720x450, 640x512, 800x512, 840x525, 800x600, 960x540, 832x624, 960x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1360x768, 1280x960, 1440x900, 1280x1024, 1400x1050, 1600x1024, 1600x1200 [22:58] display DFP-1: Samsung SyncMaster [22:58] resolutions: 320x240, 400x300, 416x312, 512x384, 576x432, 680x384, 640x480, 720x450, 640x512, 800x512, 840x525, 800x600, 960x540, 832x624, 960x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1360x768, 1280x960, 1440x900, 1280x1024, 1400x1050, 1600x1024, 1600x1200 [22:58] ok thats fine give quickshot another go [22:58] I am not sure why it isn't working at this moment in time [22:59] okay. back as quickshot user. everything okay again here. [22:59] nice what resolution are you at normal or not? [22:59] I'm normally running at 1600x1200 for both monitors. [23:00] and the nvidia tool says I'm running at that now under the quickshot user. [23:00] some output from the terminal: [23:00] $ ./run.sh [23:00] Running Quickshot [23:00] disper installed [23:00] You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to [23:00] write to Launchpad or access private data. See "bzr help launchpad-login". [23:00] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot is permanently redirected to /~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot/changes [23:00] You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to [23:00] write to Launchpad or access private data. See "bzr help launchpad-login". [23:00] No revisions to pull. [23:00] WARNING: you should run this program as super-user. [23:00] WARNING: you should run this program as super-user. [23:00] (whoa! sorry about the paste spam) [23:00] I don't know what program is running when it says it should be ran as root. [23:00] lshw [23:00] ah [23:01] I'll run quickshot again and see what blows up [23:01] nothing abnormal [23:01] hang on [23:01] ok [23:01] please do "disper -c -r 800x600" that should change your resolution [23:02] I'll try that. just a sec. [23:02] cool [23:02] btw, hitting the window's close button when the 'hit okay to change resolutions' window is up doesn't cause quickshot to exit. it just closes the window. [23:03] do I need to use sudo with disper? [23:03] nope [23:03] 'kay. here goes. [23:03] wow [23:03] okay. [23:03] that worked. [23:03] definitely changed the res. [23:04] now both monitors are showing the same image, too. [23:04] nice that sound good [23:04] can I just say how ugly 800x600 is? it's been a long time... :) [23:04] should I change it back and let quickshot try it? [23:04] or just run quickshot from here? [23:04] it is a pain I hate it I am toying with 1048x764 [23:04] chnage it back [23:05] there is something wrong with that part of the code [23:05] okay.. back to two monitors, 1600x1200. [23:05] daker will installing a lamp mean it points outwards on my pc haveing a server of any kind is against my uni useage policy [23:05] running quickshot again [23:07] ubuntujenkins, no [23:07] ok which packages do install on ubuntu-desktop? [23:07] okay, the res change worked this time. [23:07] uh oh [23:08] heh [23:08] okay. so if you click on the window close button on the 'yay, the new res worked!' screen, then you get logged out. [23:08] that doesn't seem right. [23:08] ubuntujenkins, sudo apt-get install lamp-server^ [23:08] thanks daker [23:09] godbyk thats a code fail definaly needs a fix [23:09] fair enough. [23:09] I'm going back in. :) [23:09] * ubuntujenkins files 100 more bugs :-P [23:09] \o/ [23:09] ubuntujenkins, how old are u ? [23:10] 20 why? [23:10] juste a question :) [23:10] I am new to all the server and python and bzr and laytex stuff btw [23:10] fair enough [23:11] what licence should we use for the website ? [23:11] okay, it does indeed log you back out if you let the timer expire. [23:11] going in again. [23:11] * ubuntujenkins installes a lamp server [23:11] godbyk, wich licence should we use for the website ? [23:12] oh, here's another bug for ya, ubuntujenkins: when quickshot first starts up, the default button is the Cancel button. [23:12] daker: the content should probably be under CC-BY-SA, since that's what the manual is under. [23:12] sorry but which button godbyk? [23:12] the code itself.. I dunno, I'd go with something pretty liberal like Apache or something. [23:13] ubuntujenkins: on the first screen when you run 'quickly run'.. the Cancel button is what's highlighted. (so if I press Enter, that'll be the button that gets 'clicked') [23:13] this is on the Welcome to Quickshot! screen. [23:13] i see ok noted [23:13] you should set the default buttons on all of the screens, actually. I think most the screens didn't have defaults set. [23:13] brb.. switching to quickshot again [23:15] ok daker i have a lamp now what do i do? [23:16] okay, I made it to the 'choose your language/screenshot' dialog. [23:16] the first two paragraphs are unnecessary. [23:16] woooo thats as far as it goes in main [23:16] the program doesn't need to brag about what it's done, and that info isn't particularly helpful to the user. [23:17] ok also noted [23:17] ubuntujenkins, [23:17] type 127.0.0.1 in your browser [23:17] it works aparently [23:18] thanks godbyk-quickshot any other thoughts? [23:18] second thing [23:18] hitting cancel makes the window go away. but the process is just marked [23:19] cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled [23:19] touch rewrite.load [23:19] gedit rewrite.load (you may use any editor to edit this file) [23:19] now paste this following line [23:19] LoadModule rewrite_module /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_rewrite.so [23:19] Then edit /etc/apache2/sites-available/default [23:19] Find the following [23:19] Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews [23:19] AllowOverride None [23:19] Order allow,deny [23:19] allow from all [23:19] and change it to [23:19] Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews [23:19] AllowOverride all [23:19] Order allow,deny [23:19] allow from all [23:19] and finally restart Apache [23:19] /etc/init.d/apache2 restart [23:20] ubuntujenkins, you should also make sure I'm not already running at 800x600 before you tell me you're going to change the res. [23:20] thanks very much godbyk-quickshot lots to do I am going to mail the list the log [23:20] that could be hard [23:20] *very [23:21] I'm going to logout of quickshot. brb. [23:22] okay, back. [23:23] It seemed like quickshot spent a lot of time telling me what it had done, what it was doing, and what it was going to do. [23:23] Most of that can be hidden behind a progress bar and a small label. [23:23] I didn't write those bits. [23:23] I will change them [23:24] Only pester the user if you're about to do something potentially dangerous or if you require information from the user. [23:25] ok I looked up the gnome hig and it is long [23:26] We should strive to make it as easy as possible for the user (at the sake of making it more difficult for the developer). [23:26] heh, yeah, it is. [23:26] You'll really only care about the dialog design parts, though. [23:27] daker etc/init.d/apache2 restart [23:27] * Restarting web server apache2 apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName [23:27] apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName [23:27] (13)Permission denied: make_sock: could not bind to address [::]:80 [23:27] (13)Permission denied: make_sock: could not bind to address 0.0.0.0:80 [23:27] no listening sockets available, shutting down [23:27] Unable to open logs [23:27] I think it would be easyier if we could get it on a server so that all could look [23:27] sorry about the spam [23:27] ok got it godbyk I shall focus on those bits [23:28] if it's the ubuntu-manual site that daker is working on, he can put his code in ubuntu-manual/website/daker/ and we can view it on the test.ubuntu-manual.org server. [23:28] godbyk, its possible ? [23:28] that would make more sense [23:30] daker: Yes. Just make a new directory under the website/ dir and put your code in there. [23:30] I'll link it to a subdir under the test.ubuntu-manual.org site for you. [23:30] oki [23:33] night people, thanks again godbyk [23:33] no problem. see ya, ubuntujenkins. [23:34] godbyk, daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr push --no-strict lp:ubuntu-manual [23:34] No new revisions to push. [23:35] daker: what's 'bzr status' say? [23:35] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr status [23:35] removed: [23:35] website/wolter-remake/share/images/button_outline.png [23:35] website/wolter-remake/share/scripts/buttons.js [23:35] modified: [23:35] website/countdown/index.html [23:35] daker: did you 'bzr add website/daker' or whatever dir you added? and then 'bzr commit'? [23:35] website/countdown/style.css [23:35] unknown: [23:35] website/daker/ [23:35] website/countdown/style.css.BASE [23:35] aha. [23:36] website/countdown/style.css.OTHER [23:36] website/countdown/style.css.THIS [23:36] conflicts: [23:36] Text conflict in website/countdown/style.css [23:36] run bzr add website/daker [23:36] it looks like you've modified some other things. did you intend to? (like the countdown stuff and the wolter-remake button stuff) [23:37] yep [23:37] i have to re pull it ? [23:37] okay. it looksl ike the website/countdown/style.css file has some conflicts. you should look into those before you commit that file. [23:37] but for now, to get your site up, do this: [23:38] 1. bzr add website/daker [23:38] 2. bzr commit website/daker [23:38] done [23:38] 3. bzr push [23:39] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr commit website/daker [23:39] bzr: ERROR: Conflicts detected in working tree. Use "bzr conflicts" to list, "bzr resolve FILE" to resolve. [23:39] okay. that's complaining about the website/countdown/style.css file [23:39] look at the website/countdown/style.css.OTHER and website/countdown/style.css.THIS files [23:39] figure out how best to merge all of that. [23:40] then type 'bzr resolve website/countdown/style.css' and fix up the .css file [23:45] g [23:45] godbyk, [23:45] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr commit -m website/daker/ "first prototype of the website" [23:45] bzr: warning: The commit message is a file name: "website/daker/". [23:45] (use --file "website/daker/" to take commit message from that file) [23:45] Committing to: /home/daker/ubuntu-manual/ [23:45] aborting commit write group: PathsNotVersionedError(Path(s) are not versioned: "first prototype of the website") [23:45] bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: "first prototype of the website" [23:45] daker: put the -m after the website/daker/ [23:45] so bzr commit website/daker -m "Daker's prototype of the website" [23:46] done [23:47] daker, okay, now 'bzr push' [23:48] bzr push [23:48] bzr: ERROR: Working tree "/home/daker/ubuntu-manual/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status). Use --no-strict to force the push. [23:48] try 'bzr push --no-strict' [23:52] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr push --no-strict [23:52] Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/ [23:52] bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information. [23:53] daker: run 'bzr pull' then 'bzr merge' [23:54] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull [23:54] Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/ [23:54] bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the missing command to see how. [23:54] Use the merge command to reconcile them. [23:54] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr merge [23:54] bzr: ERROR: Working tree "/home/daker/ubuntu-manual/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status). [23:55] daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr status [23:55] removed: [23:55] website/wolter-remake/share/images/button_outline.png [23:55] website/wolter-remake/share/scripts/buttons.js [23:55] modified: [23:55] website/countdown/index.html [23:55] website/countdown/style.css [23:56] okay. there are too many things going on there. [23:56] let's do this. [23:56] zip up your daker-remake dir and email it to me at [23:56] I'll add it to the branch for you. [23:56] oki [23:56] then we can clean up your local branch so that you're ready to make changes and commit them. [23:56] :) [23:58] brb.