[00:03] <jaminday> godbyk: hey - yeah I think I had a latex question for you but can't remember what it was now
[00:03] <jaminday> i must have sorted it out
[00:03] <godbyk> fair enough. :)
[00:03] <jaminday> thanks though!
[00:06] <jaminday> While you're here, do you know if references to Canonical need any legal qualifiers
[00:06] <jaminday> like inc or TM or anything like that?
[00:08] <godbyk> jaminday: I think we decided we didn't need any of that.
[00:08] <godbyk> In the US, at least, they're not required as long as you're referring to the actual trademark.
[00:09] <godbyk> And in some other countries, it's actually illegal to include them if they're not registered in that country.
[00:09] <godbyk> So it seems like the safe thing to do is to leave them out.
[00:09] <godbyk> Plus, they look ugly. :)
[00:09] <jaminday> Ah ok, yeah I must have missed that discussion.
[00:09] <jaminday> hehe
[00:09] <jaminday> no worries just thought i'd better check!
[00:27] <jaminday> Another legal thing - Benjamin references Facebook and Google as examples of websites that run unix-based servers. This is definitely true, yes?
[00:31] <popey> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Facebook's_servers_run_on_Linux
[00:32] <godbyk> I know Google uses Linux, too.
[00:34] <jaminday> ok cool thanks guys
[01:23] <jaminday> humphreybc: heya
[01:30] <humphreybc> hey jaminday
[01:30] <humphreybc> did you see the top-secret future planning page?
[01:31] <jaminday> yeah, it's looking good
[01:31] <jaminday> haven't had any brilliant thoughts to add yet
[01:31] <humphreybc> okay
[01:31] <jaminday> i think you've covered it pretty well so far!
[01:31] <humphreybc> remember it's top secret :P
[01:31] <jaminday> hehe
[01:31] <jaminday> my keyboard is sealed
[01:32] <humphreybc> :P
[01:32] <jaminday> i've just spent the last couple of hours re-editing the prologue
[01:32] <jaminday> just to streamline, reduce the verbosity
[01:32] <humphreybc> awesome!
[01:32] <humphreybc> i'm going to start re-doing the wiki
[01:32] <humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPsimplification
[01:32] <jaminday> i'm about to upload so was gonna get you to take a look
[01:32] <humphreybc> sure thing
[01:33] <jaminday> ah cool - great idea about simplifying the wiki
[01:33] <jaminday> it could really use it
[01:34] <humphreybc> indeed
[01:56] <jaminday> humphreybc: hey just uploaded changes to prologue now. Can you have a read when you get the chance and check whether it's ok - happy to revert any changes that you think need it.
[01:56] <humphreybc> sure thing
[01:56] <jaminday> i'm off to lunch for a break!
[02:08] <humphreybc> kk
[02:58] <humphreybc> hey, godbyk, you there?
[02:59] <godbyk> humphreybc: yep
[02:59] <humphreybc> two things - could you change the manual back to everything left aligned (ie, not book format) unless you're testing stuff, and could you also increase the gap between paragraphs by a bit?
[03:01] <godbyk> yes, and not unless you give me a really, really good reason. :)
[03:02] <humphreybc> I don't have one :P
[03:02] <humphreybc> but the paragraph spacing needs to be bigger
[03:02] <godbyk> why?
[03:03] <humphreybc> it looks odd with the indentation but with no spacing
[03:04] <godbyk> ?!
[03:04] <humphreybc> lol
[03:04] <humphreybc> just try it with one line spacing, and we'll see how it looks
[03:04] <godbyk> when marking paragraphs, you either indent, or you add line spacing, never both at the same time.
[03:05] <humphreybc> well, remove the indentation and we'll see what it looks like with spacing?
[03:05] <humphreybc> :)
[03:09] <godbyk> humphreybc: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-parskip.pdf
[03:12] <humphreybc> apart from the contents, that does look nicer
[03:12] <humphreybc> and the section headers/itemized lists and stuff are all screwed up
[03:12] <humphreybc> but the paragraphs look good
[03:12] <godbyk> well, the contents and some other things are using the \parindent value (which I've just set to 0pt), so that'll be a bit funky.
[03:13] <humphreybc> yu
[03:13] <humphreybc> yup
[03:13] <humphreybc> but yeah it looks better with spacing instead of indentation
[03:13] <humphreybc> in my opinion :)
[03:13] <humphreybc> if you can convince me why we should use indentation, then we'll do that
[03:13] <godbyk> I'm not that picky about it at the moment.  We'll see what I think after I've fixed up some other things.
[03:14] <humphreybc> cool
[03:14] <godbyk> You're just not allowed to both indent and space. :)
[03:14] <humphreybc> okay
[03:14] <humphreybc> well spacing > indentation
[03:14] <humphreybc> have you had some time to play around with those 800x600 shots?
[03:14] <godbyk> It increases the number of pages in the manual, too.
[03:14] <humphreybc> it does
[03:14] <godbyk> Not yet, but I'm going to soon.
[03:15] <humphreybc> cool
[03:15] <godbyk> We should start taking the screenshots for the English version -- even if they're just temporary.
[03:15] <humphreybc> we may have to put the manual on a diet
[03:15] <godbyk> That way we can see how big the PDF is getting and how many pages it takes.
[03:15] <humphreybc> yeah, well if the goddamn UX team decides what theme they want it would help a lot
[03:15] <humphreybc> have we got a finalized list of screenshots with decent descriptions?
[03:16] <humphreybc> oh yeah it's not too ad
[03:16] <humphreybc> bad*
[03:16] <godbyk> Not yet. But it'd be good to test with what we've got.
[03:16] <humphreybc> kk
[03:16] <godbyk> That'll help us work out the bugs before we try to handle the thousands of screenshots we'll have in the end. :)
[03:17] <humphreybc> well i'll set it all up and then we can tell everyone else
[03:17] <godbyk> k
[03:18] <godbyk> how's quickshot coming along?  will we be able to use it for 10.04?
[03:18] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: how's quickshot coming along?
[03:22] <Red_HamsterX> This week was quite hectic. I've got window and fullscreen support working fine, with automated cropping, but I haven't had time to sit down and work out the best way to properly hide bzr from the client yet.
[03:23] <humphreybc> sounds good :)
[03:23] <humphreybc> do you think it'll be usable in time for 10.04?
[03:24] <Red_HamsterX> I still believe it will be usable, yes. I can hack something into place if time starts to seem tight, just to get the backend working.
[03:24] <Red_HamsterX> I'm not sure how the frontend is coming along, though.
[03:24] <Red_HamsterX> I didn't notice any commits this week.
[03:26] <humphreybc> okay :)
[03:26] <humphreybc> appreciate the work
[04:08] <godbyk> humphreybc: do you want to work on the wiki stuff tonight?
[04:09] <humphreybc> yeah i will do
[04:09] <humphreybc> getting there :P
[04:10] <godbyk> 'kay. gimme a holler if you want help.
[04:10] <humphreybc> heh
[04:10] <humphreybc> my efficiency has taken a nosedive this past week
[04:10] <humphreybc> i've hardly got anything done and it's really bad
[04:11] <godbyk> same here.
[04:11] <godbyk> I think I just kinda ran out of steam.
[04:11] <godbyk> I'm trying to slog through the redesign stuff this weekend so it's done and out of the way.
[04:12] <humphreybc> yeah, i know how you feel
[04:21] <jaminday> humphreybc: you get a chance to look at the changes to prologue?
[04:22] <humphreybc> jaminday: i had a skim read but have yet to have a proper look
[04:22] <humphreybc> i'm having a very lazy sunday
[04:22] <humphreybc> lol
[04:22] <jaminday> hehe
[04:22] <jaminday> yeah no worries
[04:22] <jaminday> just let me know if you find any issues whenever you get around to it
[04:22] <humphreybc> sure
[04:22] <humphreybc> i'm planning on having a shower soon and then actually cracking into some work
[04:23] <humphreybc> because right now i am probably the most inefficient and unproductive member of the UMP team :P
[04:23] <jaminday> hehe yeah everyone's entitled to a little slacking off now and then! I just made banana butterscotch pudding so that will keep me going for a while
[04:23] <humphreybc> nic!
[04:23] <humphreybc> nice*
[04:23] <humphreybc> do you bake?
[04:24] <jaminday> nope!
[04:24] <jaminday> i just really wanted to eat it, so my wife said if i want it, then i can make it
[04:24] <jaminday> hehe
[04:24] <humphreybc> hahaha
[04:24] <humphreybc> i can make a killer banana cake
[04:24] <jaminday> ooh nice
[04:25] <humphreybc> and pretty good fudge too
[04:25] <jaminday> mmm you are making me hungry... only 30 mins to go and i can get stuck into my pudding!
[04:28] <humphreybc> lol
[04:31]  * godbyk wonders if banana cake is the same as banana bread.
[04:35] <humphreybc> sort of
[05:15] <godbyk> humphreybc: how attached are you to the part 1 and part 2 bits? Can we just leave out the parts?  (so we only have chapter headings)
[05:15] <humphreybc> huh?
[05:16] <godbyk> can I kill \part{Getting Started} and \part{Advanced topics}?
[05:16] <godbyk> it'll remove the TOC entries and the Part I: Getting Started and Part II: Advanced topics pages.
[05:16] <godbyk> I don't think they're particularly helpful to the reader.
[05:17] <godbyk> and they're rather awkward design-wise at the moment.
[05:18] <jaminday> godbyk: yeah i was thinking the same...
[05:19] <godbyk> cool.  since humphreybc's clueless, I'll just do it and he can yell at me later when he realizes what I've done.  ;-)
[05:19] <jaminday> hehe
[05:19] <humphreybc> sure remove them
[05:20] <humphreybc> sorry guys i'm totally trying to do too many things at once
[05:38] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ubuntubusinesscard.png
[05:39] <godbyk> Hey, vish, you around?
[05:40] <godbyk> humphreybc: nice. why three out of five pips?
[05:41] <humphreybc> no idea
[05:41] <humphreybc> lol
[05:41] <humphreybc> that's what martin used
[05:41] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/ubuntu-business-card/
[05:41] <humphreybc> read the first sentence and click on the link
[05:41] <humphreybc> i just grabbed his thing because i don't know much about SVG
[05:41] <humphreybc> Inkscape *
[05:41] <jaminday> Hey godbyk, do we have a latex command for mentioning where to click on a website? I'm using quotation marks at the moment but there is probably something prettier
[05:42] <godbyk> humphreybc: I like yours better than Martins.
[05:42] <godbyk> Martin's.
[05:42] <humphreybc> :)
[05:42] <humphreybc> now that i think about it, i have a reason for the 3/5 pips
[05:42] <godbyk> jaminday: I don't think we do.  Quotes are probably fine.
[05:42] <humphreybc> in the pips, the 3 on the left are orange, two on the right are white
[05:43] <humphreybc> in the name, the first name is white, the second name is orange
[05:43] <humphreybc> it balances out the name somewhat
[05:43] <godbyk> humphreybc: I'd get 4/5 pips just to one-up you.
[05:43] <humphreybc> hahaa
[05:43] <jaminday> godbyk: thanks no worries i'll keep it at that then
[05:43] <humphreybc> that could be your rating in the community
[05:43] <humphreybc> Mark would have 5/5
[05:43] <humphreybc> I'd have 1/5 :P
[05:50] <vish> godbyk: hei
[05:50] <godbyk> vish: now what was I going to ask you? :)
[05:51] <vish> lol..
[05:51] <jaminday> humphreybc: I just did a commit but now getting the message that branches have diverged and I cannot push
[05:51] <jaminday> how do i fix this again?
[05:52] <humphreybc> uuuuuuuuuuum
[05:52] <humphreybc> bzr merge?
[05:52] <humphreybc> backup what you've changed first though
[05:52] <jaminday> yeah i will
[05:53] <godbyk> vish: it was something about icons or graphics...
[05:53] <godbyk> lemme scroll through the code and see if it triggers anything.
[05:54] <jaminday> hmmm... i tried merge but getting the same message. It's asking if i want to overwrite when i go to push - should i say yes?
[05:54] <godbyk> aha!
[05:54] <godbyk> vish: can you get me icons for the \advanced and \warning call-outs?
[05:54] <humphreybc> jaminday: sure
[05:55] <humphreybc> if you destroy everything it's not the end of the world...
[05:55] <humphreybc> O.o
[05:55] <vish> godbyk: i thought icons were dropped..
[05:55] <jaminday> hehe
[05:55] <humphreybc> who said icons were dropped?
[05:55] <godbyk> vish: I think only the per-chapter icons were dropped.
[05:55] <humphreybc> wait when did we decide on this?
[05:56] <godbyk> humphreybc: I think you were having banana cake at the time or something. ;-)
[05:56] <vish> godbyk: ah, this advanced/warnings is for the boxes ?
[05:56] <godbyk> vish: yep, those.
[05:56] <humphreybc> lol
[05:56] <humphreybc> i think we should keep the chapter icon idea
[05:56] <godbyk> humphreybc: we couldn't come up with really good icons for all the chapters.
[05:56] <humphreybc> as long as we can easily find icons for each chapter
[05:57] <humphreybc> really?
[05:57] <humphreybc> that sucks
[05:57] <humphreybc> let's have another brainstorm :)
[05:58] <jaminday> humphreybc: btw think i got it sorted
[05:58] <humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPicons
[05:58] <humphreybc> jaminday: sweetbix
[05:58] <jaminday> btw#2 my banana butterscotch pudding was freakin awesome
[06:00] <vish> godbyk: what color and size did we want them in? [/me tuned out a bit too]
[06:01] <godbyk> vish: good question.  color should probably match the color scheme when end up going with. (whatever that is)
[06:01] <humphreybc> godbyk, vish, i've come up with rough icon ideas for all chapters bar two
[06:01] <humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPicons
[06:02] <godbyk> vish: size should be scalable. something simple enough that inkscape can export to pdf easily would be best.
[06:03] <godbyk> humphreybc: Here's what thorwil came up with a while back: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/hgBlhqyoMH
[06:03] <humphreybc> oh
[06:03] <humphreybc> that's useful.
[06:11] <humphreybc> vish, are you in the pad thing
[06:11] <humphreybc> ?
[06:11] <vish> yeah
[06:11] <humphreybc> cool
[06:12] <humphreybc> ideas for the other ones?
[06:12] <humphreybc> ie, installation? default apps? security?
[06:12] <godbyk> so what do you think should be done with these icons when we have them?
[06:13] <humphreybc> i'll show you, hang on
[06:14] <vish> icons are not needed  , they are just distractions IMO
[06:15] <vish> get the layout and other stuff right , use only icons for the tooltips which need to attract the attention
[06:15] <humphreybc> they're pretty distractions
[06:16] <godbyk> if they're used, they should be strictly limited to the chapter opening, and even then they should be very subdued and unobtrusive.
[06:19] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon.png
[06:19] <humphreybc> obviously we'd fiddle with the position and size
[06:21] <godbyk> you'd have to move it into the margin area so the chapter title doesn't interfere with it.
[06:21] <godbyk> also, I'd recommend making it more of a watermark.
[06:21] <godbyk> and grayscale.
[06:23] <humphreybc> either that or we could have them something like this: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon2.png
[06:26] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon3.png
[06:27] <humphreybc> I like the last one, large grayscale watermark
[06:30] <godbyk> the last one is closer to what I had in mind.
[06:31] <humphreybc> larger and less opaque, http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon4.png
[06:31] <humphreybc> what do we think?
[06:35] <godbyk> you could try letting part of the icon fall off the edge of the page.
[06:36] <jaminday> i just came back. I'm not a design person but i had a look and i really like the last one - watermark style
[06:40] <humphreybc> godbyk: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon5.png
[06:40] <humphreybc> i also like #4
[06:40] <godbyk> could go off the top edge, too.
[06:40] <humphreybc> true
[06:40] <godbyk> we'd have to adjust each icon accordingly, though..
[06:41] <humphreybc> the circle of friends isn't the best logo for demonstrating the cut off though
[06:41] <godbyk> some may not be as recognizable if you chop off 3/4 of them.
[06:41] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon6.png
[06:42] <humphreybc> it would look better with other logos where there is more stuff in the middle
[06:43] <godbyk> I'm doing a bunch of reworking of the interior design.
[06:44] <godbyk> playing around with basing our doc on the tufte-book class instead of the latex book class (since it gives us some handy things for free).
[06:44] <godbyk> Do you prefer fully-justified text or ragged right?
[06:44] <godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-justified.pdf
[06:44] <godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-ragged.pdf
[06:45] <humphreybc> with a different icon: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon7.png
[06:46] <humphreybc> hmmm
[06:46] <humphreybc> what is it at the moment?
[06:46] <humphreybc> i think justified is more formal rihgt
[06:47] <humphreybc> you know the margin in those ones is huge right?
[06:47] <vish> godbyk: pushed the advanced and the warning icons , to graphics/ , the old ones had transparency and stuff , which would mess up the pdf ..
[06:47] <vish> old warning icon*
[06:47] <humphreybc> have there been any studies or research on what people prefer or what's easier to read with justified vs. ragged?
[06:47] <godbyk> justified is a bit more formal-looking, yeah.
[06:48] <jaminday> night all, i'm off for the night, gotta give my head a rest
[06:48] <godbyk> re: the margin, kinda. it's easier to read the main text with the shorter measure and gives us more room for stuff in the margin (since we have a lot of side notes and the screenshot captions will go there)
[06:48] <godbyk> g'night, jaminday
[06:49] <godbyk> vish: thanks!  I'll pull those in.
[06:49] <jaminday> humphreybc: i did an overhaul of first part of chapter 1 RE getting hold of ubuntu CD image etc so you might want to check that out as well
[06:49] <humphreybc> jaminday: you're heading to bed early!
[06:49] <jaminday> cheers godbyk
[06:49] <humphreybc> jaminday: cool
[06:49] <jaminday> humphreybc: hehe no not off to bed yet, will probably watch a movie with my wife or something
[06:49] <humphreybc> godbyk: i think the margin is a bit giant now
[06:49] <humphreybc> groovy
[06:50] <jaminday> cool, i'm off!
[06:55] <humphreybc> godbyk, which one of the 7 proposals for chapter icons is the hardest to implement in latex?
[06:56] <godbyk> 7?
[06:57] <godbyk> they're all about the same.
[06:58] <godbyk> if someone pre-scales and crops them and does all the graphics work first, then it's easy for me to pull them into latex and insert them in the upper right-hand corner of the page.
[07:05] <godbyk> vish: I converted your SVG icons to PDF with inkscape and they look like crap.  Can you give it a shot?
[07:06] <vish> hmm , that means pdf is not able to handle gradients either :/
[07:06] <godbyk> I don't know if it's a limitation in PDF or an issue with inkscape.
[07:07] <humphreybc> godbyk, so it doesn't matter having text over the top of an image?
[07:08] <godbyk> humphreybc: nope.  I'll have latex place the image on the page after it's done laying out the text.
[07:08] <godbyk> btw, what does everyone think about thorwil's title pages?  any preferences?
[07:08] <humphreybc> groovy
[07:08] <godbyk> brb
[07:09] <vish> godbyk: do you have the pdf? let me see whats gone wrong
[07:10] <humphreybc> I don't like any of the ones he has posted on his blog
[07:10] <humphreybc> I like a combination of the things he has
[07:10] <humphreybc> but he hasn't got one that uses all of them :P
[07:11] <humphreybc> so I like the purple icons, without the curvy thing at the top or bottom, and dots in place of the wave at the bottom - but less dots, and centered
[07:13] <vish> godbyk: alrighty , i'v made a bit of change , pushed a new change gain , lets see if pdf likes it
[07:13] <vish> again*
[07:13] <humphreybc> "Again, the fine dot patterns suggests a more enterprise focus" from Mark's post
[07:13] <humphreybc> we want a wide spaced dot pattern
[07:13] <humphreybc> because we're not appealing to the enterprise customers, and we're not written by canonical
[07:14] <humphreybc> we're a community effort for the community
[07:14] <humphreybc> same for the purple vs orange
[07:14] <humphreybc> orange is more community, purple (aubergine) is more enterprise
[07:18] <godbyk> I'm back.
[07:18] <godbyk> I hate to re-bait and reset the mouse traps.
[07:18] <godbyk> Total mouse body count from last night and tonight: 5.
[07:19] <godbyk> vish: I'll pull and covert again. one sec.
[07:19] <humphreybc> godbyk, sounds like the mice like your house
[07:20] <godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, they showed up last week out of the blue.
[07:20] <humphreybc> random
[07:21] <godbyk> vish: still fails.  see http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/advanced.pdf and http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/warning.pdf
[07:21] <godbyk> I'm just using inkscape, opening the svg, save as..., pdf.
[07:22] <godbyk> humphreybc: they seem to like my peanut butter, though. <evil grin>
[07:22] <humphreybc> lol
[07:24] <vish> hmm , we need to just be plain and simple , geez why does everyone just like the glyph icons ! ;p
[07:24] <godbyk> did we ever decide on justified vs. ragged right?
[07:24] <vish> godbyk: how does thorwil do it?
[07:24] <godbyk> vish: how does he do what?
[07:25]  * vish  likes justified
[07:25] <vish> godbyk: the export to pdf , seems to be working for him properly
[07:25] <godbyk> vish: no gradients.
[07:25] <godbyk> simple line drawings.
[07:26] <vish> hmm , i recall he mentioned gradients were fine only transparency was the problem  , let me try again
[07:26]  * humphreybc is going to get a chicken burger from willowbank
[07:26] <godbyk> we could alternatively use png.  as long as it looks okay at whatever resolution we export it at and it doesn't bloat our manual's PDF size too much.
[07:26] <humphreybc> godbyk, no we didn't
[07:26] <godbyk> humphreybc: we didn't what?
[07:26] <humphreybc> decide on just/ragged
[07:27] <vish> hehe , everyone is talking to godbyk telegraphically ;p
[07:28] <godbyk> humphreybc's asynchronous responses confuse and frighten me!  :-P
[07:28] <humphreybc> lol
[07:28] <humphreybc> i think justified
[07:28] <humphreybc> but dem margins are too wide man
[07:28] <godbyk> I'm just a simple caveman hacker.  I don't understand your ways!
[07:30] <humphreybc> 165 pages now hu
[07:30] <humphreybc> huh*
[07:30] <humphreybc> wow
[07:30]  * humphreybc is getting chicken burger, bvs
[07:30] <humphreybc> bbs*
[07:40] <vish> godbyk: test the nogradient icons  , they work now..
[07:40] <vish> pdf comes out fine for me
[07:41] <godbyk> did you push the changes?
[07:41] <vish> just pushed
[07:41] <vish> bzr is too slow for realtime ;)
[07:42] <godbyk> ah, there they are.
[07:43] <humphreybc> nom nom this is one good burger
[07:47] <humphreybc> hey godbyk, any tips on how to reduce server power usage?
[07:47] <godbyk> vish: those are working now. thanks!
[07:48] <vish> np..
[07:48] <godbyk> humphreybc: depends on what the power is being used for.
[07:48] <humphreybc> ?
[07:48] <humphreybc> my server is going down for about 30 mins while i reduce the power :P
[07:48] <humphreybc> and optimize it
[07:48] <humphreybc> so those images won't work
[07:49] <godbyk> humphreybc: try running powertop.. it'll make recommendations.  (not sure if it works when you're on AC.. might require battery power, I'm not sure.)
[07:50] <humphreybc> i mean physical power reductions, i'm unplugging the optical drives and removing some unused PCI cards
[07:50] <godbyk> Latest iteration (with vish's icons): http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf
[07:50] <godbyk> humphreybc: ah, that'll help, too.
[07:51] <godbyk> humphreybc: can't pay the electric bill? :)
[07:53] <godbyk> humphreybc: also, replace the power supply with an 80plus power supply: http://www.80plus.org/  they're more efficient.
[07:56] <humphreybc> lol
[07:56] <humphreybc> i don't want to spend money!
[07:57] <humphreybc> i just want cheap tips and tweaks to improve power usage :P
[07:57] <godbyk> but spending money will save you money. :)
[07:57] <humphreybc> trade off aint worth it xD
[07:58] <humphreybc> it's got a 370W PSU right now
[08:05] <humphreybc> i might get some of this to reduce noise
[08:05] <humphreybc> http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=346582
[08:06] <humphreybc> i'm a bit concerned about heat though
[08:06] <humphreybc> i've got the CPU fan and the PSU fan running
[08:07] <humphreybc> CPU fan is plugged into the CPU fan plug which has a BIOS setting to switch speed based on load
[08:07] <humphreybc> I also have a side-case fan installed, but I've unplugged that because it was a bit noisy, and to save power. I've been putting my hand by the exhaust fan for the last few days and it's been really cool, so I'm pretty sure I can get by without the side fan
[08:07] <humphreybc> but the mats might increase the heat
[08:09] <godbyk> can you afford to slow the fans down? that'd reduce noise.
[08:10] <humphreybc> probably
[08:10] <humphreybc> but i can't slow the PSU fan
[08:10] <humphreybc> and the CPU fan is already going as slow as it lets it go
[08:10] <humphreybc> it's not particularly noisy at all
[08:10] <humphreybc> I might buy this acoustic pad stuff though, it's only $36 with free delivery and comes with quite a bit
[08:11] <humphreybc> I could undervolt the CPU?
[08:11] <humphreybc> (to save power)
[08:11] <humphreybc> can you run CPU's without a fan?
[08:14] <godbyk> you'd have to check with your cpu manufacturer about that.
[08:14] <godbyk> depends on the heat they put out and what kind of cooling options you have for that socket type.
[08:16] <humphreybc> i've always thought it was incredibly risky to run them without a fan
[08:25]  * humphreybc just bought two 320GB HDDs for $100
[08:26] <humphreybc> how easy is it to format drives from the command line?
[08:28] <godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf
[08:28] <godbyk> I turned the \screenshotTODOs into floats and now they have captions, too.
[08:29] <humphreybc> exciting!
[08:33] <humphreybc> but no actual shots yet?
[08:35] <godbyk> nope, not yet.
[08:35] <godbyk> I'll give some of those a try in a sec.
[08:36] <godbyk> do the shots you took correspond to some of the shots in the manual?
[08:36] <godbyk> gonna do a big commit.  we'll see who I cause problems for. :)
[08:40] <godbyk> okay, changes pushed.
[08:41] <godbyk> if you guys get a sec, would you try compiling the PDF?  (if it complains of missing packages, run the pkgs/install-pkgs.sh script, then try again. if it still fails, tell me about it.)
[08:50] <godbyk> Okay, I've done enough damage for one day.  I'm heading to bed.
[08:50] <godbyk> G'night!
[08:56] <humphreybc> crap
[08:56] <humphreybc> i think it's broken
[08:56] <humphreybc> the keyboard won't work anymore either
[08:58] <humphreybc> well, it works, just not with the server
[08:58] <humphreybc> i'm going to hard reset the bios..
[09:01] <humphreybc> oh, it seemed to not like the CD roms being unplugged
[09:04] <humphreybc> ext4 does definitely not like being shutdown unexpectedly
[09:08] <humphreybc> aha, so it didn't boot up because the primary drive was unplugged
[09:08] <humphreybc> so i need to change the primary drive from the DVD drive to the HDD
[09:13] <humphreybc> good ol' IDE
[09:14] <thorwil> good part-of-day!
[09:15] <humphreybc> hi thorwil!
[09:20] <thorwil> humphreybc: i wonder why you never replied to https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00906.html, but now have a mail on chapter icons
[09:21] <thorwil> http://humphreybc.homeip.net doesn't load here :/
[09:23] <dutchie> o/
[09:25] <humphreybc> lol hang on
[09:25] <humphreybc> server is down atm
[09:25] <humphreybc> should load now
[09:25] <thorwil> does
[09:25] <humphreybc> :)
[09:26] <humphreybc> ah, technology. I can plug in a computer and turn it on and all the way on the other side of the world someone can see the files stored on it.
[09:26]  * humphreybc is looking forward to his 2x 320GB HDDs and acoustic padding arriving so he can continue pimping the server
[09:27] <thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon2.png or http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon3.png / http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon7.png
[09:28] <dutchie> second one
[09:28] <humphreybc> i quite like: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/chaptericon4.png
[09:28] <thorwil> that is, if at all
[09:29] <dutchie> chaptericon3.png
[09:30]  * humphreybc restarting the server
[09:30] <humphreybc> back up in about 2 minutes
[09:31] <humphreybc> ....and it's back up
[09:34] <dutchie>  09:34:02 up 39 days, 12:02,  4 users,  load average: 0.20, 0.07, 0.01
[09:35] <humphreybc> 4 users huh?
[09:36] <humphreybc> but do you have a fancy page to tell you those stats?
[09:36] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/phpsysinfo
[09:36] <dutchie> 4 users are 4 instances of me
[09:37] <humphreybc> hahaha
[09:37] <humphreybc> okay
[09:38] <humphreybc> it's like... dutchie-server 413 users
[09:38] <humphreybc> 413 users! man your server must be popular!
[09:38] <humphreybc> dutchie: nah, it's just 413 instances of me
[09:39] <dutchie> $ ssh vps who
[09:39] <dutchie> jrh      pts/1        2010-02-22 18:30 (78.150.76.153:S.0)
[09:39] <dutchie> jrh      pts/2        2010-02-02 21:31 (78.150.76.153:S.1)
[09:39] <dutchie> jrh      pts/3        2010-02-02 21:32 (78.150.76.153:S.2)
[09:39] <dutchie> jrh      pts/4        2010-02-26 23:02 (78.150.76.153:S.3)
[09:39] <dutchie> \o/
[09:39] <humphreybc> lol
[09:39] <humphreybc> so i got two 320GB HDDs off trademe for $100
[09:39] <humphreybc> so I'll have about 1.2TB of space soon :)
[09:40] <humphreybc> and then i got some exciting noise reducing 5mm thick pad things
[09:40] <humphreybc> so it'll be really exciting
[09:42]  * humphreybc can't wait to build his own house one day. it will have a mint server-controlled heating system
[09:46]  * humphreybc still hasn't done the wiki overhaul
[09:47] <humphreybc> balsfhasg
[09:57]  * humphreybc thought that he had a lot of karma...
[09:57] <humphreybc> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+topcontributors
[10:03] <humphreybc> godbyk, you know there are a couple of compile time errors in the title and author?
[10:31] <humphreybc> so this is what Canonical does in their spare time... http://www.flickr.com/photos/iain/sets/72157622861379369/
[10:31] <humphreybc> :P
[20:07] <daker> hi @all
[20:08] <godbyk> hey, daker. how's it going?
[20:08] <daker> fine
[20:09] <daker> so i want to create a new project for the website
[20:09] <daker> i have made a lot of things this week end
[20:09] <ubuntujenkins> hello everyone
[20:10] <daker> hi ubuntujenkins
[20:10] <ubuntujenkins> hi daker what stuff have you made for the website?
[20:10] <thorwil> hi all
[20:10] <ubuntujenkins> hello thorwil
[20:11] <thorwil> godbyk: there's still just "Advanced" and "Warning" as special sections in need of icons, right?
[20:11] <godbyk> thorwil: So far, yeah.
[20:11] <godbyk> vish provided me with a couple icons for them yesterday.
[20:11] <daker> ubuntujenkins, http://10.30.236.83/daker-remake/
[20:12] <godbyk> thorwil: have you seen the updated manual with the new layout stuff yet?
[20:12] <ubuntujenkins> daker the link is broken acording to chromium
[20:12] <daker> oki
[20:13] <daker> one minute
[20:13] <thorwil> godbyk: what is vish thinking, not letting me know ... can you show them to me?
[20:13] <thorwil> godbyk: nope
[20:13] <vish> thorwil hei!
[20:14] <godbyk> thorwil: sure, they're in the bzr repository.  graphics/warning.pdf and graphics/advanced.pdf
[20:14] <vish> thorwil: i got pinged today morning , and i just did them since i had time.. and you werent around either :(
[20:14] <godbyk> feel free to change 'em. I'm not picky.  I just wanted something I could drop in to get rid of the ! and !! placeholders.
[20:15] <thorwil> vish: it's all good. my own fault to have some work on that sleeping on my hd
[20:16] <godbyk> thorwil: http://kevin.godby.org/private/ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual.pdf
[20:16] <godbyk> I still have plenty of work to do, but it's getting there.
[20:17] <godbyk> we should figure out what's up with the chapter headings soon so I don't have to panic about it later. :)
[20:17] <vish> thorwil: lol , its yesterday for godbyk but it was morning for us ;) , noon for me rather ;p
[20:18] <godbyk> yeah, it's 15:18 on Sunday for me right now.
[20:20] <thorwil> vish: we will use the !-triangle in any case. though i made it monochrome
[20:21] <vish> thorwil: i dont see the point of those icons being monochrome , the warning needs to attract attention
[20:24] <thorwil> vish: it will, in yellow/orange
[20:24] <thorwil> godbyk: what's open about the chapter headings?
[20:25] <vish> thorwil: anyways , if anyone asks me to do stuff , i'll tell them to run it by you first :)
[20:25] <thorwil> heh
[20:26] <godbyk> thorwil: well the entire design is up in the air at the moment. waiting to hear what's going on re: per-chapter icons and, if we're going with them, where they'll be placed, etc.
[20:27] <thorwil> vish, godbyk: this is what i was about to put on my blog: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/1150a8b26fb909c47aa9469291f4ed44
[20:27] <daker> ubuntujenkins, try now http://10.30.236.83/daker-remake/
[20:27] <ubuntujenkins> still broken daker
[20:27] <daker> chit
[20:28] <godbyk> daker: the 10.x.x.x IP address is internal only.  you'll have to give us your external ip address.
[20:29] <godbyk> thorwil: cool.  the \advanced icon will be the most difficult one, I think.
[20:29] <daker> godbyk, that's right
[20:29] <vish> thorwil: what is the ladder for?
[20:30] <godbyk> vish: the icons on the second row are attempts to indicate 'advanced'
[20:30] <thorwil> right
[20:30] <vish> ;s
[20:30] <vish> thorwil: also , since the warning is yellow on white  , have a darker border..
[20:31] <vish> which would probably be the same as the current one :(
[20:31] <godbyk> How do other manuals do it?
[20:31] <godbyk> I know that Knuth's TeX manual using a 'dangerous bend' icon for warnings and advanced material: http://www.truetex.com/db.htm
[20:31] <vish> godbyk: i recall seeing spanners for advanced..
[20:32] <godbyk> He uses one dangerous bend for advanced material and two dangerous bend icons for super-advanced material.
[20:32] <dutchie> do we really need a right margin that wide?
[20:33] <godbyk> dutchie: nag, nag, nag. :)
[20:33] <dutchie> heh
[20:33] <godbyk> I haven't decided yet.  It's the default margins in the tufte-book class, which is based on the book design used in Edward Tufte's books.
[20:34] <godbyk> he makes more extensive use of marginal material that we do at the moment.
[20:34] <godbyk> but I wanted to shorten the measure of the main text block at any rate.
[20:36] <thorwil> great. a quick image search reveals 3 different dangerous-bend signs
[20:36] <dutchie> is command-line/.command-line.tex.properties.xml generated by something of godbyk's?
[20:37] <godbyk> dutchie: now that I'm aware of..
[20:38] <dutchie> nothing seems to have been broken by killing it
[20:39] <godbyk> dutchie: I don't see that file here. did your editor create it?
[20:39] <dutchie> don't think so
[20:39] <godbyk> ah, I see others like it here, though.
[20:39] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: A while ago it was said to change the combo box in in the screenshot choosing window to something else. what was the reasoning behind that?
[20:40] <godbyk> I'll see if I can figure out where they come from
[20:43] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, I don't recall any of the specifics associated with this discussion. I think titeuf is who you'd want to speak to.
[20:44] <ubuntujenkins> ok thank you I will ask him when he is next around
[20:44] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: was it changing the dropdown box (containing the list of screenshots) to a list box?
[20:45] <ubuntujenkins> It was godbyk, that was it.
[20:45] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the reasoning behind that would be that drop-down boxes that contain a huge list of items are hard to use, and using a list box is better in that case.
[20:45] <godbyk> it makes it easier to navigate longer lists because you can see more of the context.
[20:46] <ubuntujenkins> Now I remeber I will try and change it to make it look right
[20:47] <ubuntujenkins> thanks
[20:51] <thorwil> 6586 views for the Ubuntu Manual Title Page post, but very sparing feedback
[20:53] <vish> thorwil: just read the ML reply , i said the same thing about having chapter icons.. we dont need them ;)
[21:03] <thorwil> godbyk: btw, contact on your website lacks country
[21:04] <godbyk> which site?
[21:04] <godbyk> (too many profiles)
[21:04] <thorwil> http://kevin.godby.org
[21:04] <thorwil> is there a better one to link your name with?
[21:04] <godbyk> ah, thanks. I'll fix that.
[21:04] <godbyk> nope, you can link to my site.
[21:06] <thorwil> if only i could write a resume like that. i can only point to examples and hope nobody asks for my CV which is such a wreck that i wouldn't hire myself
[21:07] <thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/ubuntu-manual-icons/
[21:09] <godbyk> yeah, I need to update my CV, too.  I hate writing about myself.
[21:11] <godbyk> I think I like the second column of icons.. with the black.  It'll print better and has a bigger impact.
[21:12] <thorwil> noted
[21:12] <thorwil> good night! :)
[21:13] <ubuntujenkins> nn o/
[22:04] <daker> ubuntujenkins, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[22:04]  * ubuntujenkins looks
[22:07] <ubuntujenkins> daker I am confused i get  bzr branch lp:~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website
[22:07] <ubuntujenkins> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website/". when pulling the branch
[22:08] <ubuntujenkins> am i being silly?
[22:09] <daker> I have not yet push the work
[22:09] <ubuntujenkins> there is no branch there yet
[22:09] <ubuntujenkins> just got it :-)
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> I am testing quickshot so I may acedntly log ou tin a second
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> sorry for the jumble I had to type fast just in case
[22:15] <daker> ubuntujenkins, try now
[22:16] <ubuntujenkins> I now have an empty folder called website
[22:24] <ubuntujenkins> back now
[22:24] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: heh.. you could just change that line to: if not os.environ["USER"] == "quickshot" and not os.environ["USER"] == "luke-jennings":  for now and be done with it for a while. :-)
[22:24] <daker> ubuntujenkins, i dont know what's the problem
[22:25] <ubuntujenkins> good point godbyk I keep forgetting to change it back. its very anoying
[22:25] <ubuntujenkins> did you run bzr add daker?
[22:25] <daker> yesp
[22:25] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:/var/www/daker-remake$ bzr add
[22:26] <ubuntujenkins> then bzr commit -m "chnage goes here"
[22:26] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: are you on the frontend or backend of things?  it's been a while since I've seen the workflow on the front-end, but when I last saw it (some weeks ago), it looked like there might have been a couple unnecessary steps in there.  is there a current diagram showing the user's path through the program?
[22:26] <daker> ubuntujenkins, bzr commit –m "first prototype of the website"
[22:26] <daker> Committing to: /var/www/daker-remake/
[22:26] <daker> Traceback (most recent call last):
[22:26] <daker>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/logging/__init__.py", line 791, in emit
[22:26] <daker>     stream.write(fs % msg.encode("UTF-8"))
[22:26] <daker> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 80: ordinal not in range(128)
[22:26] <daker> bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: "–m" "first prototype of the website"
[22:27] <daker> this is bugg ?
[22:27] <ubuntujenkins> Have a run of main and see what you think godbyk I am mostly front end the python is to hard for me. I will be interested if it works for you. btw a package call disper will be installed it allows us to deal with nvidia stuff
[22:28] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: how do I test quickshot and do I need to close all my programs first (so it can log out)?
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> wow daker that looks fun
[22:29] <daker> ubuntujenkins, hhhhh
[22:29] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: go to the quickshot diectory where the banch is and do "quickly run" and follow thought the instructions if you have done it before do "quickly run -r"
[22:30] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: shall I dump my stream-of-consciousness thoughts here for ya?
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> daker: just to  check you did "bzr commit -m "first prototype of the website""
[22:31] <ubuntujenkins> please do godbyk or paste bin it and then link it to me
[22:31] <godbyk> okay. here goes:
[22:31] <godbyk> the window doesn't need to be resizable.  if you allow resizing the elements in the window should resize appropriately.  right now it just ads extra padding which isn't helpful.
[22:31] <godbyk> the Cancel button should probably be renamed Close
[22:32] <godbyk> the about dialog says version 0.03, but the main window says version 0.02
[22:33] <godbyk> File > Quit should have a shortcut key (Ctrl+Q) associated with it.
[22:33] <godbyk> might be better to go with File > Close (Ctrl+W) instead. I'd have to check the current HIG for what's proper now.
[22:33] <godbyk> the Next and Cancel buttons are too wide.
[22:34] <godbyk> [regretting this yet? :-)]
[22:34] <ubuntujenkins> no this is good no one has given us much feed back on the project so far
[22:35] <godbyk> clicking next causes the program to appear to lock up.  there's no status as to what it's doing or why it's taking so long.
[22:35] <ubuntujenkins> which next buttons that?
[22:35] <godbyk> the first next button.  while it's downloading disper in the background.
[22:36] <ubuntujenkins> that will hopefully go, I am hoping to have disper as a dependcey
[22:36] <godbyk> the next thing I see as the user is the dialog asking for my password, telling me it wants to install something.  that's kinda scary.
[22:36] <godbyk> okay
[22:36] <daker> ubuntujenkins, any idea ?
[22:37] <godbyk> if I cancel the password dialog and click close on the next password dialog (it's rather persistent, isn't it?), then quickshot closes without another word on the gui side.
[22:37] <ubuntujenkins> daker i am afraid not if you did the command right then it might be a bug
[22:37] <godbyk> the only reason I know what's going on is because I saw the console output in the terminal window.
[22:37] <daker> oki
[22:37] <godbyk> I'm letting it install disper this time.
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> try setting the branch up again daker
[22:38] <godbyk> there's no progress display during the install, either.
[22:38] <godbyk> okay, it's asking for a pwd for the quickshot user.
[22:38] <godbyk> the text is all centered. that's bad.
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> thats my fault
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> thats easy to change
[22:39] <godbyk> you say I should enter the password for the new user in the boxes below.  there's only one box.
[22:39] <ubuntujenkins> lol
[22:39] <godbyk> the spacing and button positions don't follow the HIG either.
[22:39] <godbyk> if I hit the Close button, quickshot exits without another word.
[22:40] <ubuntujenkins> what do you expect it to say?
[22:40] <godbyk> admit that it can't continue without creating the quickshot user.  give me options to go back and create the user or to give up on the whole quickshot thing.
[22:41] <ubuntujenkins> ok i see
[22:41] <godbyk> there was another long delay after entering the pwd for the quickshot user. no status reports and the UI kind of freezes during that time.
[22:41] <godbyk> on this screen it says a new user has been created called "Quickshot" with a capital Q.  on the previous screen it was lowercase Q.
[22:42] <ubuntujenkins> thats alos caused by a tempoary bit of code untill we have aproper program it has to pull the bzr branch into the quickshot user
[22:42] <godbyk> centered text and button possitions again.
[22:42] <godbyk> Close button has C underlined, but Login button doesn't have a shortcut key.
[22:42] <godbyk> will clicking the login button switch users or actually log me out?
[22:43] <godbyk> i.e., will it close all of my programs and cause me to lose work?
[22:43] <ubuntujenkins> switch users, but just in case please save everything it has worked so far but..
[22:43] <godbyk> might be good to note that in this window.
[22:43] <godbyk> I'll be back in a sec. going to hit the login button.
[22:44] <ubuntujenkins> any luck daker?
[22:44] <ubuntujenkins> kk godbyk
[22:44] <daker> its works
[22:44]  * ubuntujenkins bets godbyk will mention about centred text again :-)
[22:45] <ubuntujenkins> cool daker i will do a pull
[22:45] <daker> wait a minute
[22:45] <ubuntujenkins> kk
[22:45] <daker> its not yet complet
[22:45] <daker> hi is pushing right now
[22:46] <godbyk-quickshot> okay.. logged in as quickshot now.
[22:46] <godbyk-quickshot> when quickshot starts up again, it shows the same first screen as before..
[22:47] <godbyk-quickshot> where it says it will create a new user and I'll be prompted for my password during setup, etc.
[22:47] <ubuntujenkins> yep I will chanage  text in the lable
[22:47] <godbyk-quickshot> if I'm already logged in as quickshot, then it should instead give me a 'congratulations!' dialog and continue on.
[22:47] <godbyk-quickshot> clicking next took a while.
[22:47] <godbyk-quickshot> the window disappeared for a bit.
[22:48] <godbyk-quickshot> just came back with the warning. lemme read this.
[22:48] <ubuntujenkins> yep i can tidy that up easy
[22:48] <godbyk-quickshot> non-standard dialog layout. see the gnome hig again for details.
[22:48] <godbyk-quickshot> there's no way for me to bail out at this point.. just the OK button.
[22:48] <ubuntujenkins> I think i need to eat the gnome hig :-)
[22:48] <godbyk-quickshot> going to hit the window's close button and see what happens.
[22:48] <ubuntujenkins> good point
[22:49] <godbyk-quickshot> closed the window with the window control and now I'm still logged in as quickshot without any idea of what's going on.
[22:49] <godbyk-quickshot> going to restart quickshot manually from a terminal.
[22:50] <ubuntujenkins> daker silly question which bit do i open with chrome?
[22:52] <godbyk-quickshot> okay
[22:52] <godbyk-quickshot> that didn't work well.
[22:52] <ubuntujenkins> what happend?
[22:52] <godbyk-quickshot> just changed the screen res to something (it claims)
[22:53] <godbyk-quickshot> everything is white except the quickshot dialog
[22:53] <ubuntujenkins> and did it?
[22:53] <godbyk-quickshot> not even sure if I'm typing in the xchat window
[22:53] <ubuntujenkins> you are
[22:53] <daker> what ?
[22:53] <godbyk-quickshot> it said if I didn't hit 'ok' (with the timeout) that it would log me out.  why log me out?
[22:54] <godbyk-quickshot> brb, going to cancel  quickshot and see if I can see again
[22:54] <godbyk> okay, I'm back as me now.  had to hit ctrl+alt+f1 and alt+f7 to switch back to my regular user.
[22:55] <ubuntujenkins> daker: how do i view the website with chrome?
[22:55] <ubuntujenkins> logging out is the only way we can restores people resolution 100% of the time. godbyk
[22:55] <ubuntujenkins> you have a new bug if you can't see anything
[22:55] <godbyk> yeah, everything was completely white.
[22:55] <godbyk> I mean *completely*.
[22:55] <godbyk> the only thing I could see was the quickshot window.
[22:55] <godbyk> I could hit alt+tab and see the windows in the switcher list.
[22:55] <daker> ubuntujenkins, you have to install a lamp server
[22:56] <ubuntujenkins> you were typing in xchat still. that is very strange
[22:56] <godbyk> then I just waved my mouse around until it changed to the text insert I-beam cursor and typed into xchat.
[22:56] <godbyk> I've got a dual-head setup with an nvidia card.
[22:57] <ubuntujenkins> I have tested it on dual head it should work
[22:57] <ubuntujenkins> daker i will see if I have enough space to instal one
[22:57] <godbyk> I'll try to switch back to the quickshot user and see if it's any better.
[22:57] <godbyk> one sec
[22:57] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you open a terminal and do disper -l an post please
[22:58] <godbyk> $ disper -l
[22:58] <godbyk> display DFP-0: Samsung SyncMaster
[22:58] <godbyk>  resolutions: 320x240, 400x300, 416x312, 512x384, 576x432, 680x384, 640x480, 720x450, 640x512, 800x512, 840x525, 800x600, 960x540, 832x624, 960x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1360x768, 1280x960, 1440x900, 1280x1024, 1400x1050, 1600x1024, 1600x1200
[22:58] <godbyk> display DFP-1: Samsung SyncMaster
[22:58] <godbyk>  resolutions: 320x240, 400x300, 416x312, 512x384, 576x432, 680x384, 640x480, 720x450, 640x512, 800x512, 840x525, 800x600, 960x540, 832x624, 960x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1360x768, 1280x960, 1440x900, 1280x1024, 1400x1050, 1600x1024, 1600x1200
[22:58] <ubuntujenkins> ok thats fine give quickshot another go
[22:58] <ubuntujenkins> I am not sure why it isn't working at this moment in time
[22:59] <godbyk-quickshot> okay. back as quickshot user. everything okay again here.
[22:59] <ubuntujenkins> nice what resolution are you at normal or not?
[22:59] <godbyk-quickshot> I'm normally running at 1600x1200 for both monitors.
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> and the nvidia tool says I'm running at that now under the quickshot user.
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> some output from the terminal:
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> $ ./run.sh
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> Running Quickshot
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> disper installed
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot is permanently redirected to /~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot/changes
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> No revisions to pull.
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> WARNING: you should run this program as super-user.
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> WARNING: you should run this program as super-user.
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> (whoa! sorry about the paste spam)
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> I don't know what program is running when it says it should be ran as root.
[23:00] <ubuntujenkins> lshw
[23:00] <godbyk-quickshot> ah
[23:01] <godbyk-quickshot> I'll run quickshot again and see what blows up
[23:01] <ubuntujenkins> nothing abnormal
[23:01] <ubuntujenkins> hang on
[23:01] <godbyk-quickshot> ok
[23:01] <ubuntujenkins> please do "disper -c -r 800x600" that should change your resolution
[23:02] <godbyk-quickshot> I'll try that. just a sec.
[23:02] <ubuntujenkins> cool
[23:02] <godbyk-quickshot> btw, hitting the window's close button when the 'hit okay to change resolutions' window is up doesn't cause quickshot to exit.  it just closes the window.
[23:03] <godbyk-quickshot> do I need to use sudo with disper?
[23:03] <ubuntujenkins> nope
[23:03] <godbyk-quickshot> 'kay. here goes.
[23:03] <godbyk-quickshot> wow
[23:03] <godbyk-quickshot> okay.
[23:03] <godbyk-quickshot> that worked.
[23:03] <godbyk-quickshot> definitely changed the res.
[23:04] <godbyk-quickshot> now both monitors are showing the same image, too.
[23:04] <ubuntujenkins> nice that sound good
[23:04] <godbyk-quickshot> can I just say how ugly 800x600 is?  it's been a long time... :)
[23:04] <godbyk-quickshot> should I change it back and let quickshot try it?
[23:04] <godbyk-quickshot> or just run quickshot from here?
[23:04] <ubuntujenkins> it is a pain I hate it I am toying with 1048x764
[23:04] <ubuntujenkins> chnage it back
[23:05] <ubuntujenkins> there is something wrong with that part of the code
[23:05] <godbyk-quickshot> okay.. back to two monitors, 1600x1200.
[23:05] <ubuntujenkins> daker will installing a lamp mean it points outwards on my pc haveing a server of any kind is against my uni useage policy
[23:05] <godbyk-quickshot> running quickshot again
[23:07] <daker> ubuntujenkins, no
[23:07] <ubuntujenkins> ok which packages do install on ubuntu-desktop?
[23:07] <godbyk-quickshot> okay, the res change worked this time.
[23:07] <godbyk-quickshot> uh oh
[23:08] <godbyk> heh
[23:08] <godbyk> okay. so if you click on the window close button on the 'yay, the new res worked!' screen, then you get logged out.
[23:08] <godbyk> that doesn't seem right.
[23:08] <daker> ubuntujenkins, sudo apt-get install lamp-server^
[23:08] <ubuntujenkins> thanks daker
[23:09] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk thats a code fail definaly needs a fix
[23:09] <godbyk> fair enough.
[23:09] <godbyk> I'm going back in. :)
[23:09]  * ubuntujenkins files 100 more bugs :-P
[23:09] <ubuntujenkins> \o/
[23:09] <daker> ubuntujenkins, how old are u ?
[23:10] <ubuntujenkins> 20 why?
[23:10] <daker> juste a question :)
[23:10] <ubuntujenkins> I am new to all the server and python and bzr and laytex stuff btw
[23:10] <ubuntujenkins> fair enough
[23:11] <daker> what licence should we use for the website ?
[23:11] <godbyk> okay, it does indeed log you back out if you let the timer expire.
[23:11] <godbyk> going in again.
[23:11]  * ubuntujenkins installes a lamp server
[23:11] <daker> godbyk, wich licence should we use for the website ?
[23:12] <godbyk> oh, here's another bug for ya, ubuntujenkins: when quickshot first starts up, the default button is the Cancel button.
[23:12] <godbyk> daker: the content should probably be under CC-BY-SA, since that's what the manual is under.
[23:12] <ubuntujenkins> sorry but which button godbyk?
[23:12] <godbyk> the code itself.. I dunno, I'd go with something pretty liberal like Apache or something.
[23:13] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: on the first screen when you run 'quickly run'.. the Cancel button is what's highlighted. (so if I press Enter, that'll be the button that gets 'clicked')
[23:13] <godbyk> this is on the Welcome to Quickshot! screen.
[23:13] <ubuntujenkins> i see ok noted
[23:13] <godbyk> you should set the default buttons on all of the screens, actually.  I think most the screens didn't have defaults set.
[23:13] <godbyk> brb.. switching to quickshot again
[23:15] <ubuntujenkins> ok daker i have a lamp now what do i do?
[23:16] <godbyk-quickshot> okay, I made it to the 'choose your language/screenshot' dialog.
[23:16] <godbyk-quickshot> the first two paragraphs are unnecessary.
[23:16] <ubuntujenkins> woooo thats as far as it goes in main
[23:16] <godbyk-quickshot> the program doesn't need to brag about what it's done, and that info isn't particularly helpful to the user.
[23:17] <ubuntujenkins> ok also noted
[23:17] <daker> ubuntujenkins,
[23:17] <daker> type 127.0.0.1 in your browser
[23:17] <ubuntujenkins> it works aparently
[23:18] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk-quickshot any other thoughts?
[23:18] <daker> second thing
[23:18] <godbyk-quickshot> hitting cancel makes the window go away.  but the process is just marked <defunct>
[23:19] <daker> cd /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
[23:19] <daker> touch rewrite.load
[23:19] <daker> gedit rewrite.load (you may use any editor to edit this file)
[23:19] <daker> now paste this following line
[23:19] <daker> LoadModule rewrite_module /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_rewrite.so
[23:19] <daker> Then edit /etc/apache2/sites-available/default
[23:19] <daker> Find the following
[23:19] <daker> Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
[23:19] <daker> AllowOverride None
[23:19] <daker> Order allow,deny
[23:19] <daker> allow from all
[23:19] <daker> and change it to
[23:19] <daker> Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
[23:19] <daker> AllowOverride all
[23:19] <daker> Order allow,deny
[23:19] <daker> allow from all
[23:19] <daker> and finally restart Apache
[23:19] <daker> /etc/init.d/apache2 restart
[23:20] <godbyk-quickshot> ubuntujenkins, you should also make sure I'm not already running at 800x600 before you tell me you're going to change the res.
[23:20] <ubuntujenkins> thanks very much godbyk-quickshot lots to do I am going to mail the list the log
[23:20] <ubuntujenkins> that could be hard
[23:20] <ubuntujenkins> *very
[23:21] <godbyk-quickshot> I'm going to logout of quickshot. brb.
[23:22] <godbyk> okay, back.
[23:23] <godbyk> It seemed like quickshot spent a lot of time telling me what it had done, what it was doing, and what it was going to do.
[23:23] <godbyk> Most of that can be hidden behind a progress bar and a small label.
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> I didn't write those bits.
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> I will change them
[23:24] <godbyk> Only pester the user if you're about to do something potentially dangerous or if you require information from the user.
[23:25] <ubuntujenkins> ok I looked up the gnome hig and it is long
[23:26] <godbyk> We should strive to make it as easy as possible for the user (at the sake of making it more difficult for the developer).
[23:26] <godbyk> heh, yeah, it is.
[23:26] <godbyk> You'll really only care about the dialog design parts, though.
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> daker etc/init.d/apache2 restart
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins>  * Restarting web server apache2                                                apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> (13)Permission denied: make_sock: could not bind to address [::]:80
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> (13)Permission denied: make_sock: could not bind to address 0.0.0.0:80
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> no listening sockets available, shutting down
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> Unable to open logs
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins>     I think it would be easyier if we could get it on a server so that all could look
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> sorry about the spam
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> ok got it godbyk I shall focus on those bits
[23:28] <godbyk> if it's the ubuntu-manual site that daker is working on, he can put his code in ubuntu-manual/website/daker/ and we can view it on the test.ubuntu-manual.org server.
[23:28] <daker> godbyk, its possible ?
[23:28] <ubuntujenkins> that would make more sense
[23:30] <godbyk> daker: Yes. Just make a new directory under the website/ dir and put your code in there.
[23:30] <godbyk> I'll link it to a subdir under the test.ubuntu-manual.org site for you.
[23:30] <daker> oki
[23:33] <ubuntujenkins> night people, thanks again godbyk
[23:33] <godbyk> no problem. see ya, ubuntujenkins.
[23:34] <daker> godbyk, daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr push --no-strict lp:ubuntu-manual
[23:34] <daker> No new revisions to push.
[23:35] <godbyk> daker: what's 'bzr status' say?
[23:35] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr status
[23:35] <daker> removed:
[23:35] <daker>   website/wolter-remake/share/images/button_outline.png
[23:35] <daker>   website/wolter-remake/share/scripts/buttons.js
[23:35] <daker> modified:
[23:35] <daker>   website/countdown/index.html
[23:35] <godbyk> daker: did you 'bzr add website/daker' or whatever dir you added?  and then 'bzr commit'?
[23:35] <daker>   website/countdown/style.css
[23:35] <daker> unknown:
[23:35] <daker>   website/daker/
[23:35] <daker>   website/countdown/style.css.BASE
[23:35] <godbyk> aha.
[23:36] <daker>   website/countdown/style.css.OTHER
[23:36] <daker>   website/countdown/style.css.THIS
[23:36] <daker> conflicts:
[23:36] <daker>   Text conflict in website/countdown/style.css
[23:36] <godbyk> run bzr add website/daker
[23:36] <godbyk> it looks like you've modified some other things.  did you intend to?  (like the countdown stuff and the wolter-remake button stuff)
[23:37] <daker> yep
[23:37] <daker> i have to re pull it ?
[23:37] <godbyk> okay. it looksl ike the website/countdown/style.css file has some conflicts. you should look into those before you commit that file.
[23:37] <godbyk> but for now, to get your site up, do this:
[23:38] <godbyk> 1. bzr add website/daker
[23:38] <godbyk> 2. bzr commit website/daker
[23:38] <daker> done
[23:38] <godbyk> 3. bzr push
[23:39] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$  bzr commit website/daker
[23:39] <daker> bzr: ERROR: Conflicts detected in working tree.  Use "bzr conflicts" to list, "bzr resolve FILE" to resolve.
[23:39] <godbyk> okay. that's complaining about the website/countdown/style.css file
[23:39] <godbyk> look at the website/countdown/style.css.OTHER and website/countdown/style.css.THIS files
[23:39] <godbyk> figure out how best to merge all of that.
[23:40] <godbyk> then type 'bzr resolve website/countdown/style.css' and fix up the .css file
[23:45] <daker> g
[23:45] <daker> godbyk,
[23:45] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr commit -m website/daker/ "first prototype of the website"
[23:45] <daker> bzr: warning: The commit message is a file name: "website/daker/".
[23:45] <daker> (use --file "website/daker/" to take commit message from that file)
[23:45] <daker> Committing to: /home/daker/ubuntu-manual/
[23:45] <daker> aborting commit write group: PathsNotVersionedError(Path(s) are not versioned: "first prototype of the website")
[23:45] <daker> bzr: ERROR: Path(s) are not versioned: "first prototype of the website"
[23:45] <godbyk> daker: put the -m after the website/daker/
[23:45] <godbyk> so bzr commit website/daker -m "Daker's prototype of the website"
[23:46] <daker> done
[23:47] <godbyk> daker, okay, now 'bzr push'
[23:48] <daker> bzr push
[23:48] <daker> bzr: ERROR: Working tree "/home/daker/ubuntu-manual/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status). Use --no-strict to force the push.
[23:48] <godbyk> try 'bzr push --no-strict'
[23:52] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr push --no-strict
[23:52] <daker> Using saved push location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
[23:52] <daker> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  See "bzr help diverged-branches" for more information.
[23:53] <godbyk> daker: run 'bzr pull' then 'bzr merge'
[23:54] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull
[23:54] <daker> Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
[23:54] <daker> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the missing command to see how.
[23:54] <daker> Use the merge command to reconcile them.
[23:54] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr merge
[23:54] <daker> bzr: ERROR: Working tree "/home/daker/ubuntu-manual/" has uncommitted changes (See bzr status).
[23:55] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr status
[23:55] <daker> removed:
[23:55] <daker>   website/wolter-remake/share/images/button_outline.png
[23:55] <daker>   website/wolter-remake/share/scripts/buttons.js
[23:55] <daker> modified:
[23:55] <daker>   website/countdown/index.html
[23:55] <daker>   website/countdown/style.css
[23:56] <godbyk> okay. there are too many things going on there.
[23:56] <godbyk> let's do this.
[23:56] <godbyk> zip up your daker-remake dir and email it to me at <godbyk@gmail.com>
[23:56] <godbyk> I'll add it to the branch for you.
[23:56] <daker> oki
[23:56] <godbyk> then we can clean up your local branch so that you're ready to make changes and commit them.
[23:56] <godbyk> :)
[23:58] <godbyk> brb.