=== jonathan_ is now known as jjesse
=== seawolf is now known as ncc1701
jjessewhat are the supported upgrade paths for 10.04?  just 9.10 to 10.04?01:44
ScottKNot sure.01:46
ScottKRiddell: Are we supporting other upgrade paths?01:46
jjesseok just trying to finish documenting somethings01:49
jjessesince we didn't do a last LTS we shouldn't have to support anything further do we?01:49
ScottKWe wouldn't have to, but I suspect it's reasonably trivial to support 8.04 -> 10.04 for us since it'll have to be supported for Ubuntu.01:54
JontheEchidnaWe've kept conflicts on the -kde4 packages present in 8.04 for this very reason, iirc02:00
* JontheEchidna grumbles at bug 53852402:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538524 in kdebase-workspace "boot hangs on splash screen, doesn't switch to KDM" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53852402:08
JontheEchidnaDoesn't a post-freeze upload that prevents successful booting at the least deserve a heads-up?02:09
jjessesorry lost my connection, last i saw was we weren't supporting the upgrade?02:13
JontheEchidna[21:54:19] <ScottK> We wouldn't have to, but I suspect it's reasonably trivial to support 8.04 -> 10.04 for us since it'll have to be supported for Ubuntu.02:13
JontheEchidna[22:00:51] <JontheEchidna> We've kept conflicts on the -kde4 packages present in 8.04 for this very reason, iirc02:13
ScottKJontheEchidna: It doesn't prevent it for everyone and in confirmed to fix several severe problems at least as bad.02:14
ScottKPlease file bugs on plymouth ....02:14
JontheEchidnaas I said, at the very least a heads-up would have been curteous02:15
ScottKI don't think it was anticipated it would make things worse for some people.02:17
ScottKIt was pretty extensively discussed on #ubuntu-devel, IIRC.02:17
JontheEchidnaOf course, nobody ever thinks about kdm.02:18
ScottKI think it's more graphics card related.02:18
JontheEchidnaThe upload required a patch for gdm, so it would follow that a similar patch would be needed for kdm02:18
JontheEchidnaand it has been confirmed that the lack of a similar patch is the cause02:18
ScottKOh.  I missed hat.02:18
ScottKDidn't know that.02:18
ScottKIs it clear how the gdm patch translates to kdm?02:19
* ScottK wonders if it broke xdm too?02:19
JontheEchidnahttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/538524/comments/5 <- This is what we need to do02:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538524 in kdebase-workspace "boot hangs on splash screen, doesn't switch to KDM" [High,Confirmed]02:19
JontheEchidnaDunno how translatable the gdm patch will be, since gdm is C and kdm is C++02:20
JontheEchidnaactually ,I wonder if the kdm core is c++. iirc it was forked from xdm02:20
ScottKNo idea.  Maybe nixternal will fix it.02:21
ScottKIIRC he upstartified kdm.02:21
jjessehaha is upstartified a word?02:21
JontheEchidnaThe kdm backend does appear to be plain C02:21
JontheEchidnaI targeted the bug to the beta milestone, so hopefully somebody on the release team will see it02:23
ScottKSeeing isn't the same as fixing.02:27
ScottKHow's your C?02:27
ScottKJontheEchidna: maco can do C, but has almost no bandwidth.  Could you point her at the GDM patch and maybe the relevant files for KDM?02:32
JontheEchidnagdm patch is here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40883554/gdm_2.29.92-0ubuntu1_2.29.92-0ubuntu2.diff.gz02:33
JontheEchidnaI don't really see any corresponding file in kdm though...02:33
JontheEchidnamaybe server.c?02:34
JontheEchidnaoh, daemon.c looks more promising02:34
macoi have an old kdebase checkout. lemme poke through02:34
macooh ugly. that gdm patch is a patch of a patch!02:37
macoalso, gdm has lovely glib stuff. kdm backend is xlib02:39
macook so gdm patch adds a function called plymouth_has_active_vt() that returns a boolean which runs "/bin/plymouth --has-active-vt" on the command line and returns that command's exit status.02:41
ScottKGo maco go.02:43
macoi figure the logs for the channel can be docs of what the patch is doing for me or someone to look at when trying to reimplement ;-)02:45
macoinstead of gdm_server_start_on_active_vt () being called just on plymouth_is_running() it gets called when plymouth_is_running() AND has active vt. if its running but not active vt, it quits plymouth02:56
macowell, quits plymouth and starts gdm.02:56
macothere's more to this than just that02:59
macobut its not inside that patch :-/02:59
macoim grabbing current kdebase-workspace and hoping there are some plymouth functions already defined in it03:00
maco(says itll take 1.5h to download)03:01
ScottKmaco: I marked you as having the bug in progress.   Please change it back if you  decide not to finish it up.03:05
crimsunplease ping keybuk for follow-up03:52
crimsunhe knows that code pretty well03:52
macocrimsun: he did the gdm stuff. does he know kdm as well?04:29
crimsunmaco: he knows the plymouth and vt stuff.04:29
macocrimsun: i'm looking at kdebase-workspace-4.4.1/debian/patches/kubuntu_104_kdm_active_vt_plymouth.diff04:29
macocrimsun: ah ok04:30
yuriyi do think a change that required a patch to kdm merited an email to kubuntu-devel04:36
yuriyalso having the DM be responsible for shutting down plymouth just doesn't sound right to me04:37
persiaWhile I entirely agree with the sentiment that there should be notifications, I'd like to suggest that massive changes that affect multiple flavours (if not fixed) should be sent to ubuntu-devel@.04:38
persiaUnless I misunderstand something, I believe kubuntu-devel@ is a closer mirror to ubuntu-desktop@04:38
ScottKThat's correct.05:05
ScottKNo mail there either.05:05
persiaIndeed.  The desktop team needs to get more communicative.05:09
ScottKActually Keybuk is in the Foundations team05:43
persiaYeah, that was mistargeted.  Apologies to those who may have been offended.05:51
* persia was grumbly about something else anyway05:51
=== shadeslayer changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: ubuntu-devel
shadeslayersorry for that.... can someone change that back please08:01
=== jussi01 changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Be careful about rebooting see /topic in #ubuntu-devel | Beta 1 Freeze | Feature Freeze, fix bugs | Kubuntu has the Doctor on the brain | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | milestoned bugs marked as kubuntu http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9
agateauis daily iso known to work correctly lately09:54
agateauI have one from friday evening, and it fails to install from usb09:54
agateauI get the choice to install, then the ubuntu splash with the five dots09:54
agateauthen (initramfs) prompt and an error about not finding /dev/sr009:55
JohnFluxHey all10:07
JohnFluxI introduced a silly bug in KDE 4.4.0 and 4.4.1 - it would be great to get this fixed since presumably you won't be shipping with 4.4.210:09
JohnFluxI'll file a bug report, but is there someone I could ask directly?10:09
agateauJohnFlux: I think we will ship 4.4.2 (at least we shipped 4.3.2 for Karmic)10:11
agateauRiddell: ^10:11
JohnFluxagateau: ah, here's to hoping10:11
JohnFluxRiddell: please use 4.4.2  or backport my fix (it's in the 4.4 branch)10:12
Riddellagateau: friday's was OK I think, on i386 at least10:15
Riddellbug 538524 may be affecting today's10:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538524 in kdebase-workspace "boot hangs on splash screen, doesn't switch to KDM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53852410:15
JohnFluxis alpha3 safe to install?10:17
agateauRiddell: I get stuck sooner than that: installation does not even start10:18
JohnFluxRiddell: can you give a nod that you read what I said :)  basically, in 4.4.1 the system activity (ctrl+esc dialog) doesn't update..10:20
RiddellJohnFlux: ack, if it's fixed in 4.4.2 we'll pick that up when it happens or you can throw a patch our way to apply next week (beta freeze this week I'm afraid)10:22
JohnFluxRiddell: yeah it's fixed in 4.4.210:22
JohnFluxRiddell: I know you have lots to do, but if you get a chance, please press "ctrl+esc" at some point and check that it is updating.10:23
JohnFluxotherwise I'm going to be flooded with repeated bug reports about it ;-D10:23
JohnFluxalthough I do deserve it :)10:23
Riddellseems pretty static for now10:25
=== Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok
agateauRiddell: I need to update Amarok KSNI patch, do you know if Maco's package is going to be the shipped one?10:30
agateauOr should I update the patch from our current version instead?10:30
Riddellagateau: yes we'll ship maco's one10:39
Riddellwhich is in kubuntu-ppa/experimental10:39
agateauRiddell: ok, ignore my last email then :)10:39
agateauRiddell: re-updating the patch10:40
agateauRiddell: guess I should send it to maco instead10:41
Riddellagateau: probably not, she's away this week10:44
agateauRiddell: ok10:45
agateauRiddell: reminds me to warn you I won't be much connected for the next 3 days, as I will be holding kde booth at a french linux exhibition10:46
Riddellooh la la10:49
Riddellagateau: got any kubuntu CDs?10:49
agateauRiddell: yup, and stickers and pens!10:50
agateauI have so much goodies I need to take my car to go there :)10:50
Riddellagateau: today's CD seems in reasonable shape11:33
agateauRiddell: not affected by the kdm bug you pointed out?11:34
Riddelldoesn't seem to be11:34
agateauok, thanks, will give it a try then11:34
Riddellalthough I haven't done an install yet and I expect the installer still has the permissions and progress dialogue broken bugs I need to look at now11:35
agateauRiddell: does this bug prevent installation?11:40
Riddellagateau: no just the final "installing" dialogue won't show you progress, you can tail -f /var/log/syslog instead if you want11:41
agateauRiddell: ok, that's user friendly enough :)11:41
freeflyingRiddell: you there?12:07
Riddellfreeflying: I am12:07
JontheEchidnaphonon 4.4.0 finally \o/13:20
RiddellJontheEchidna: I pasted link to patch to qt 4.6 on saturday if anyone wants to package it13:21
=== jonathan_ is now known as jjesse
JontheEchidnaRiddell: we still get the backends from that tarball, though13:22
shadeslayersorry about the topic earlier :(13:23
shadeslayerjussi01: thanks for fixing that13:23
RiddellJontheEchidna: yes13:24
Riddellso they should be packaged at the same time13:25
JontheEchidnaah, yeah13:25
JontheEchidnaProbably would be fine, though, since libphonon has been ahead of the backends for several months. Wouldn't hurt to upgrade both at the same time anyways13:26
ScottKDoes anyone know if maco got anywhere on 538524?  I think that's an actual beta 1 blocker, so it'd be nice if someone got it fixed ...13:34
Riddellbug 53852413:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538524 in kdebase-workspace "boot hangs on splash screen, doesn't switch to KDM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53852413:35
RiddellScottK: maco is away currently without internet, I doubt she'll be fixing it13:36
ScottKOK.  She had a bit of it last night.13:36
ScottKOf course I'm still waiting for an answer to: <slangasek> Keybuk: why is bug #538524 a kdm bug when plymouth is still marked as 'stop on starting kdm'?13:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538524 in kdebase-workspace "boot hangs on splash screen, doesn't switch to KDM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53852413:37
ScottK(asked ~8 hours ago on #ubuntu-devel)13:37
Riddellthe live CD doesn't seem to be affected, I'm a bit scared to install though13:38
shadeslayerRiddell: cd testing?13:41
shadeslayerim planning to upgrade.....13:41
Riddellshadeslayer: are you asking me a question?13:42
shadeslayerRiddell: yes :P13:42
shadeslayerRiddell: im asking if the live CD needs to be tested?13:42
Riddellshadeslayer: not worth it yet, there are known issues in ubiquity13:43
shadeslayerRiddell: ah well...13:44
JontheEchidnaRiddell: this is the patch? http://home.samfundet.no/~sandsmark/phonon-4.4-for-qt-4.6.2.patch13:44
RiddellJontheEchidna: that's the one13:45
davmor2Riddell: that shock issue in ubiquity surely not ;)13:45
JontheEchidnaRiddell: The plan is, to go to kde-phonon entirely in lucid+1?13:46
RiddellJontheEchidna: my thinking would be go with separate qtwebkit and phonon yes13:47
JontheEchidnaThat'll probably help with compile time, especially handy for ports13:47
Riddellmm, yes13:47
JontheEchidnaQtWebKit is supposedly a beast to build13:47
Riddellit's not small13:48
JontheEchidnathe debian websvn browser is painful :(13:50
Riddellit has two13:51
Riddelltry the other one if you don't like the one you're using13:51
JontheEchidnaI'm using this one: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/trunk/packages/phonon/debian/13:52
Riddelltry http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-kde/trunk/packages/phonon/debian/13:52
JontheEchidnaoo, much better. looks like KDE's13:53
JontheEchidnahttp://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-kde?view=rev&revision=17194 <- Wonder if that's behind pyqt not finding phonon when using kde-only phonon13:54
JontheEchidnawell, I wonder if the situation before that revision was the cause :)13:55
Riddellwhy do we care about pyqt not finding phonon when using kde-only phonon if we don't use  kde-only phonon?13:55
JontheEchidnawe don't at the moment13:56
JontheEchidnaI'm just curious :)13:56
Riddellwell install from today's live CD boots fine but only on the second boot14:03
Riddellfirst one froze at plymouth splash14:03
macoRiddell: i'm online right now. i was figuring out how the current gdm and kdm patches work last night14:07
macoRiddell: i bought a week of net access, its just very slow :)14:07
Riddellcoding while skiing!  impressive14:08
macoRiddell: it was when i got home from skiing :P slopes close at 430pm14:08
macoand "right now" is "waiting for breakfast" :)14:09
macoif i cant figure out kdm tonight, might want to start looking for someone else, because beta's *soon*14:18
aldpm: stupid question: how do i merge .desktop files with rosetta desktop po files without writing my own script?14:19
dpmhi al, normally this is done with a tool called intltool-merge, used by most of the programs which use gettext and .desktop files14:23
RiddellKDE doesn't use intltool14:24
ali must be doing it wrong then14:24
Riddellalthough you probably could14:24
dpmRiddell, how are the translations merged into the .desktop files in the KDE world, then? Note also that the question is probably for quassel, which does not use the usual KDE setup if I'm not mistaken14:25
Riddellit's done by one of the scripts in here http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n-kde4/scripts/14:26
Riddellmerge_desktop_files.sh seems a likely candidate14:26
dpmah, thanks Riddell. al: you might be able to use that instead of intltool ^14:27
Riddellbut yes quassel developers probably know the right answer since they'll have to do it independent of KDE's SVN script bot14:27
ScottKRiddell: al would be the quassel developer in question ...14:28
Riddelloh, doh14:29
Riddellthen tsdgeos would be the guy to ask upstream14:29
RiddellJontheEchidna: I'm still seeing the icon cache on today's CD so we might have to reopen that bug14:34
alyea, we're still .. improving on the whole translation thing ;)14:36
althanks for the pointers14:36
SputI'm actually amazed that it works as well as it does, importing stuff from LP and all14:41
Sputthanks to dpm and al :)14:42
dpmSput, team effort :). I'm happy to hear that it works well, especially given that it is not the standard translations setup.15:01
Sputsomeone should lobby the trolls to adopt the standard system instead of insisting in using their own :P15:05
Riddellthat would be nice15:05
RiddellI don't know if gettext exists on all platforms they support though, it certainly didn't when they first did i18n15:06
seaLnewhat package is it that the kubuntu customisation of ubiquity comes from? ie why does one of the while i'm installing screens still talk about k desktop environment instead of kde sc15:27
ScottKseaLne: ubiquity, IIRC.15:27
RiddellseaLne: the install slideshow is ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu15:34
=== shadeslayer is now known as shadeslayer_
seaLnebugs.lp dosen't seem to think it exists? i'd tried after finding -ubuntu15:37
seaLneis it just the same package?15:43
seaLneBug #53914715:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 539147 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu "kubuntu welcome screen mentions k desktop environment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53914715:48
RiddellseaLne: yes it's built from ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu15:50
RiddellseaLne: note that the content is due to be updated, it's currently just quickly done content15:51
Riddellnixternal is working on it15:51
seaLneah ok15:52
Riddellmaco: I updated amarok with a newer patch from agateau and uploaded a karmic version to backports PPA16:12
JontheEchidnaWas it decided if we wanted strigi to be run by default or not?16:41
JontheEchidnaIt's quite resource-intensive if enabled, especially for systems on the lower end of our minimum requirements16:42
RiddellJontheEchidna: I suspect not, or maybe only on limited directories like Documents and Music etc16:42
ScottKRiddell: Could was also do something about the indexing started/stopped notifications.  When I unplug and go on battery, I don't need that one along with the "you're on battery now" one.16:45
JontheEchidnaThat whole tray icon should go, imo16:45
JontheEchidnawell, I suppose the tray icon and the notifications are separate, but they're both unnecessary16:46
ScottKAutohide by default would be good.16:46
JontheEchidnait is autohidden, except when its indexing16:46
JontheEchidnathen you have an icon changing the layout of your systray as the system does something that the user shouldn't really have to care about16:47
ScottKMakes sense16:47
Riddellthat needs patches I expect16:49
JontheEchidnaWe've done a similar patch before, but it was dropped because it failed to apply due to nepomuk updates. (Plus we didn't support nepomuk at the time)16:50
JontheEchidnashouldn't be too much work to re-introduce16:50
JontheEchidnaThis annoys the heck out of me too: http://imagebin.ca/view/xQWsMWb5.html16:52
JontheEchidnaShould read: "Presenting a focus-stealing popup telling you that PIM magic normal people don't care about starting up"16:54
JontheEchidnaIt's totally unecessary and always pops up as I'm typing in my password for kwallet16:55
JontheEchidnaakonadi always fails to start afterwards, but that's a different gripe :P16:55
daskreechI was about to say that is followed by Akonadi did not start16:55
* agateau agrees with JontheEchidna16:55
daskreechPerhaps Knotify it ?16:55
JontheEchidnaWhy should I care if the magic plumbing for kmail is starting? Shouldn't it just work?16:56
* daskreech grumbles as he tries to figure out what happened to MySQL so that akonadi won't start16:56
daskreechDbUS has been killing apps left and right since the other day16:57
JontheEchidnaIf all apps did this, we'd have KNetworkManager giving us a focus-stealing popup telling us that NetworkManager was starting, we'd have Quassel telling us that it was starting its sqlite database, and so forth16:58
daskreechAnd plasma for Amarok :)17:01
JontheEchidnaI suppose in summation: Splash screens are evil, but focus-stealing splash screens for backend bits are extra evil17:03
daskreechDon't be Evil17:04
JontheEchidnaexactly :)17:06
apacheloggerdid anyone package amarok?17:18
=== apachelogger is now known as releaselogger
daskreechCan konversation's default channel list be changed according to locale?17:22
Sputfwiw, in KDE trunk akonadi doesn't show the popup anymore17:27
Riddellreleaselogger: yes amarok is in backports for karmic and experimental for lucid17:32
releaseloggercool, thx17:32
DarkwingDucksebas: ping17:33
releaseloggerdaskreech: I am quite sure I asked Sput to consider this when quassel was implementing that stuff :P17:33
releaseloggerdunno about konvi though17:33
releaseloggermost likely not17:33
JontheEchidnaHas the kres migrator popped up for anybody else during iso testing and so forth? (new install/user)17:36
JontheEchidnaI'm trying to figure out why it keeps popping up when my clean testuser logs in17:36
JontheEchidna(it starts the whole akonadi stack even if a PIM app isn't in use, wasting 20 MB RAM)17:37
JontheEchidnaone wonders why the default kresource for the address book isn't pre-converted to akonadi...17:38
RiddellJontheEchidna: there's a krunner which starts akonadi17:44
Riddellon the live CD we disable that with17:44
Riddellrm -f /root/usr/share/kde4/services/plasma-runner-contacts.desktop  # starts akonadi17:44
releaseloggerwe probably should not have that beasty17:48
releaseloggerI would find it rather confusing to have all sorts of dialogs popup that are completely unrelated to login stuff17:49
jtechidnaI'm trying to hunt down why kaddressbook or whatever doesn't use an akonadi address book in the first place17:51
=== jtechidna is now known as JontheEchidna
JontheEchidnabah, I can18:05
JontheEchidnabah, I can't find where that silly file gets created18:05
JontheEchidnareleaselogger: what does releaselogger mean?18:08
releaseloggerJontheEchidna: that I am in a I-am-kind-of-helping-with-a-release-state ;)18:09
JontheEchidnai c18:10
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
daskreechreleaselogger: well what would be ideal is that it appends the correct local channel as well as #kubuntu18:27
daskreechQuite a number of locales only have a #ubuntu-cc18:27
releaseloggergo talk to sput :P18:28
nixternalhe said talk to him, not yell at him18:30
* releaselogger throws Re(z_{1}) and Re(z_{2}) at daskreech18:31
releaseloggerthere, now I dont even have to think about their relation18:31
Riddellholy guacamole, our CD is only 620MB large18:31
Riddelldaily one that is18:32
Riddelldaily-live  at 663M18:32
releaseloggernow if only we could get rid of python :P18:33
releaseloggerimagine the freedom18:33
releaseloggerand then get rid of openoffice :P18:33
releaseloggerwe coud squeeze all of KDE on one CD ;)18:33
nixternalget rid of it all, just leave gnu tools18:33
* Riddell throws Languages: de fr onto the CDs for beta18:33
releaseloggerthat would imply that we ship emacs18:33
releaseloggerand by vader, I hate emacs18:33
nixternalkubuntu-docs will fill up that blank void on the cds18:33
nixternalas soon as people get their job done...i finished all of my work, *cough* jjesse, *cough* DarkwingDuck18:34
nixternal10 days before string freeze18:35
JontheEchidnayay, Qt w/ latest phonon patch built18:36
Riddellnixternal: what's the status of the slideshow?18:37
daskreechnixternal: Sorry. It's the Shatner in me18:37
nixternalthe text is done, ask shtylman what's up, he knows more about it18:38
jjessenixternal: umm need to work more on that, first up tonight finish book chpt, second finish to dos on kubuntu docs18:39
nixternaljjesse: want me to take the office topic?18:40
nixternalor have you already started on it?18:40
DarkwingDucknixternal: I'll have it done by COB on wed18:40
DarkwingDuckif not sooner18:40
nixternaldesktop and web topic?18:41
DarkwingDuckand updated netbook18:41
nixternalI have no idea where dhillonv is, so I am going to probably rip his section out from under him and probably not include it in lucid18:41
jjessenixternal: didn't i do a checkin?18:43
jjessefor office?18:43
jjesseneed to finish update18:43
jjesseprobablly doesn't validate :)18:43
nixternaljjesse: office is still blank in the repos18:44
nixternalconfig-desktop is broken, but an easy fix to validate18:44
jjesseummm wonder what happened that office is blank18:44
jjessecause i thought i commited18:44
jjessegoing to have to dig through things tonight18:44
nixternaloh, it isn't blank, there is some stuff in there18:45
nixternalI HATE JOB HUNTING!!!18:46
nixternalI need a job to come to me dangit!18:46
=== NCommander is now known as Guest5889
txwikingernixternal: Jobhunting is a job just by itself... not very well paid, but needs even more effort ;)18:55
jjessejobhunting sucks18:55
* txwikinger has no time for job hunting18:56
txwikingerIt used to be that job hunters would hunt me18:56
* JontheEchidna notes that putting firefox on the livecd would only take up 11 MB now18:59
=== JontheEchidna changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Be careful about rebooting see /topic in #ubuntu+1 | Beta 1 Freeze | Feature Freeze, fix bugs | Kubuntu has the Doctor on the brain | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | milestoned bugs marked as kubuntu http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9
JontheEchidnaActually, I don't think the plymouth bug mentioned in #ubuntu+1's topic is related to ours19:06
crimsunno, weak correlation at best19:07
crimsunplymouth is a beast to debug because of all the intertwined subsystems19:07
crimsunkinda like audio now that I think on it...19:07
yuriy_worka splash screen is as complicated as the overly complicated audio stack/web. i'm scared.19:10
crimsunyuriy_work: different kind of madness19:11
crimsunyuriy_work: with splash, you have to worry about the corner cases of ordering of different processes19:11
crimsunyuriy_work: with audio, you have to worry about how different processes abuse existing misconfigurations19:12
crimsuni.e., it's fairly easy to spin a derivative that has no pulse, or one that has support for nothing but pulse and rejects anything attempting to bypass pulse, etc.19:13
ScottKJontheEchidna: No.  That was a different one.19:17
ScottKFeel free to adjust /topic19:18
=== JontheEchidna changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Be careful about rebooting | Beta 1 Freeze | Feature Freeze, fix bugs | Kubuntu has the Doctor on the brain | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | milestoned bugs marked as kubuntu http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9
shtylman_Riddell: any logo magic happen19:22
crimsunnixternal: ping, PM ok?19:42
=== jtechidna is now known as JontheEchidna
JontheEchidnadantti: Still needs a bit of work: http://imagebin.ca/view/3syGYDsB.html19:57
JontheEchidnaand also the menu for teh applet will quit the whole of kded :(19:57
danttiJontheEchidna: hmm nice, did you saw http://dantti.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/printprogress/  ?20:00
JontheEchidnayeah, looks pretty neat20:01
JontheEchidnaBtw, I successfully canceled a few jobs with the print queue20:01
ScottKPlease fewer giant icons.20:01
danttiScottK: there is a loooot of empty space..20:02
ScottKdantti: Then make the window smaller.20:02
danttiI can't make a window smaller20:02
danttithe user can simply resize it....20:03
danttialso, hopefully nuno will make some diferent ones for lazer printers and I find them very good looking..20:03
danttiI tried a bit smaller but it got weird..20:04
danttiactually if I try 92x92 might get better... but 64 is too small..20:05
Sputwhoa these icons really are giant20:15
ScottKSput: My point exactly.20:21
ScottKThey remind me of the kpackagekit icons (of which my opinions are a matter of public record).20:21
danttiScottK: which kpackageKit icons? kpk doesn't have huge icons..20:23
danttithey are now iirc 32x3220:23
danttisame size of kickoff ones..20:23
ScottKdantti: OK.  I didn't look recently.20:24
ScottKThe ones we have in Karmic are huge (for update notification)20:24
danttiScottK: they should be the same size of the printer list since it's the "same" delegate...20:25
ScottKThis, of course, gets back to me just wanting the systray icon to let me know there are updates.20:25
* Sput wonders if the printer icons serve any real purpose20:30
Sputat least for HP tools, they look like your actual printer and help you identify the model20:30
JontheEchidnadantti: kde svn 110375720:40
ubottuhttp://websvn.kde.org/trunk/?rev=1103757&view=rev | svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk -r 110375720:40
danttiJontheEchidna: nice :D I can't test that though... no kde4.4 packages yet :(20:41
JontheEchidnadantti: So what should clicking the tray icon load up? The queue?20:41
danttii think so20:42
danttiJontheEchidna: I tought the right click to have a menu to see it's status and pause/resume it..20:42
JontheEchidnapause/resume all jobs?20:43
danttiand the tool tip to be "printer description\nIdle or Printing 'foo'"20:43
danttiJontheEchidna: no the printer ..20:43
danttinot sure though..20:43
JontheEchidnadantti: looks like this currently: http://imagebin.ca/view/mA-uyszp.html20:44
JontheEchidnathe default context menu has an item that will quit kded :D20:45
JontheEchidnaand clicking the icon does nothing currently20:45
JontheEchidnaI'm thinking we'll have to give it a custom context menu20:45
ScottKDoes our pkg-kde-tools translations magic need something like http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40963610/cdbs_0.4.62+nmu1ubuntu6_source.changes20:45
danttiJontheEchidna: hmm i know that problem.. you have to provide you own menu20:46
danttiJontheEchidna: kmix for example doesn't have the quit button on the slide menu..20:46
JontheEchidnaScottK: I don't think we use grouping like that20:46
ScottKOK.  Just checking.20:47
danttiJontheEchidna: btw it's looking pretty nice, I just miss the printer description or name...20:47
JontheEchidnadantti: yeah, still fairly fresh. I have to go eat now, but I'll be back in a bit20:48
ScottKcrimsun: FYI, in case you didn't see it, there's a security announcement from Debian on a pulseaudio issue.  See DSA 2017-1.20:52
crimsunScottK: yeah, I uploaded the fix to Lucid last week20:56
crimsunit's quite low importance according to keess20:57
ScottKOK.  Cool.20:58
* Riddell pre-empts the Amarok news item with http://www.kubuntu.org/news/amarok-4.3.0 21:04
Riddellahem http://www.kubuntu.org/news/amarok-2.3.021:06
=== releaselogger is now known as mathlogger
TscheesyRiddell: ^^ - already spreaded .D21:11
ScottKIs the NM icon in http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/03/plasma-netbook-reference-platform_15.html nm-applet or is there some KNM icon we don't have yet?21:20
JontheEchidnalook nm-applet-y21:23
ScottKSeems a bit odd for a plasma-netbook reference platform.  sebas should go fix it.21:25
JontheEchidnait's probably just suse + plasma-netbook, from the looks of the blog :P21:25
ScottKI'd think Suse of all places should manage KNM.21:26
shtylman_we still getting a new webpage for lucid?21:27
SputScottK: yeah, that's definitely not KNM21:30
SputI'm tracking trunk, it never had that icon :)21:30
Sputit's not 2002 anymore...21:30
Riddellshtylman_: maybe, ofir is working on a new website design21:41
DarkwingDuckRiddell: have you had any issues saving a new connection with the netowrk management plasmoid?21:42
RiddellDarkwingDuck: no21:42
DarkwingDuckI visited my parents place and it was giving me fits saving their connection and connecting. I restarted it and it worked just fine21:43
DarkwingDuckI'll be at the airport on Wednesday and I'll try again there.21:44
JontheEchidnadantti: http://imagebin.ca/view/qNYeiMjz.html21:53
danttiJontheEchidna: nice but what about what it's doing?21:54
JontheEchidnae.g. printing, pending, etc?21:54
danttilike "Epson... \n Printing 'foo.odt'"21:55
JontheEchidnais there a nice way to get only the currently printing/queued document?21:55
danttiJontheEchidna: hmm no, you need to get the list of the pirnting jobs :/21:56
JontheEchidnathis is how I'm getting the print name:21:56
JontheEchidna+        QString dest = QString::fromLocal8Bit(jobs->dest);21:56
JontheEchidna+        kDebug() << "Printer name: " << dest;21:56
JontheEchidnalemme commit21:56
JontheEchidnacommitted as r110379321:57
danttiJontheEchidna: loot at printqueueui.cpp21:58
danttilines 106 to 11821:59
JontheEchidnaoh, you can pull that data out during the cupsGetJobs function. Interesting21:59
JontheEchidnawait, nvm21:59
JontheEchidnaok, I see22:00
JontheEchidnacups isn't a very nice api22:02
danttiJontheEchidna: why?22:06
JontheEchidnaRoundabout ways of getting to info, I guess22:06
danttiwell the problem is that it works as http, you get the info that is avalilable at that "site"22:07
danttiI think it should be a bit better docummented but It seems to work quite well..22:09
danttisome stuff I had to look at the cups sources.. but nothing so hard to do..22:09
JontheEchidnadantti: http://imagebin.ca/view/rzfXff.html22:21
danttiJontheEchidna: hmm that much nicer imo..22:21
danttiI'm trying to work on the configure interface now22:24
danttibut I's a bit hard to make that simple..22:24
NightroseJontheEchidna: could you check if the amarok package is actually published in the ppa?22:25
Nightrosei have 3 people say there is no update for karmic22:25
Nightrose(plus me)22:25
JontheEchidnaIt's not there. Doesn't look like it was ever uploaded either22:27
JontheEchidnaRiddell: ^22:28
Riddelloh, I uploaded it as source format 3.022:28
ryanakcashtylman_: I hope so. Ofir is currently working on the feature tour, I think the main site is nearly done22:32
shtylman_ryanakca: cool22:33
shtylman_we want to be new and shiny like ubuntu :)22:33
daskreech"Like Ubuntu" is kind of a loaded statement isn't it?22:40
JontheEchidnadantti: What do we do when a user clicks on the tray icon, and there are jobs for two printers in the queue? Just show the queue of the printer that has the current job?22:40
JontheEchidnaI could see how having a combined queue would be useful too22:40
* mathlogger would find it counter intuitive if it only showed jobs of one printer22:41
danttihmm if you have two queues you should habe two icons..22:41
mathloggereither show a general status overview or a combined job list22:41
danttiJontheEchidna: so one icon for one printer/queue22:41
JontheEchidnaone tray icon per printer?22:41
mathloggerthat is also counter intutive22:41
mathloggerhow am I supposed to know which one is one?22:41
JontheEchidnaI think I have to agree22:42
danttiyup while we don't have a queue that can show grouped jobs22:42
daskreechOne icon, List of queues22:42
daskreechIf there is one queue simplfy to jobs22:42
danttiyou would know which one is one by the tool tip + icon22:42
mathloggerdantti: then show one overview dialog where the user can choose the queue to show22:42
danttibut as an option we could group them22:42
mathloggermultiple tray icons are not going to do any good22:43
mathloggerdantti: and that is good HCI?22:43
* mathlogger blinks22:43
* daskreech thinks of one Corporate environment with 5 printer pools22:43
daskreechWhere poll != printer22:43
danttiwell then what we could do is to open the queue if the there only one with jobs, other wise we show a menu with printer/status22:44
JontheEchidnathen clicking on the printer items would open up the queue of that printer?22:45
mathloggersounds good22:45
* mathlogger would also consider showing the chooser if there are multiple printers but only one with content in queue22:46
yuriy_workdunno exactly what the discussion is with the queues, but I think the ground rule should be if you have only one printer, you don't have to see any of that stuff22:46
* mathlogger agrees with yuriy_work22:46
danttiplus the tray icon would not be there if there are no jobs so showing the chooser wouldn't be needed imo22:47
JontheEchidnaActually, I'm not quite sure how to safely destroy a KStatusNotifierItem. The best I can do at the moment it to make it hide itself. (It is still accessible by the systray's arrow, but is hidden by default)22:48
mathloggerwell, I don't know what the queue dialog looks like, but imagine the scenario where user prints multiple documents to n>2 printers and at some points wants to check how far they are along22:48
mathloggerin this particular case only showing one queue would be weird, since the user issued multiple jobs to multiple printers22:49
mathloggerand in the worst case it might lead to the user doubting himself and checking if he actually printed the other stuff etc.22:49
mathloggerdunno though22:49
* mathlogger finds that all rather advanced foo + mathlogger doesn't have any printer :P22:50
* JontheEchidna plays "let's crash kded"22:50
JontheEchidnaI win22:51
=== mathlogger is now known as petvillelogger
DarkwingDuckkpackagekit is being a pain...22:51
petvilleloggerJontheEchidna: I think as a developer the target should be to not crash kded :P22:51
nixternalcrimsun: yo yo, pm is always ok22:52
DarkwingDucknixternal: what I don't finish tomorrow at the laundromat I'll finish on the flight to mississippi22:53
DarkwingDuckYeah Funny. :P22:53
DarkwingDuckwhen is the freeze?22:54
nixternal9 days22:54
DarkwingDuckI'll also help finalize a review prior to that.22:54
nixternalwe need it in asap, so I will probaly get the package in tomorrow, so at least we can have some eyes on it to fix typos and what not22:54
petvilleloggernixternal: remember to optimize them images22:55
JontheEchidnafor some reason I'm getting a crash at line 29 here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/395869/22:55
DarkwingDuckI might just stay up and finish them tonight22:55
nixternaldude, i was trying to find a box at a neighboring company to my dad's for jono on some stuff I am shipping him...and there was this embankment that I misjudged...i fell hard down it, rolled like I was in a movie22:55
nixternalpetvillelogger: I have been optimizing them22:55
JontheEchidnashouldn't line 12 ensure the existence of m_trayIcon?22:55
DarkwingDuckI saw that on twitter LOL22:56
nixternalI think image wise we are around 3mb22:56
petvilleloggerthat is superzied22:56
nixternal>>> (bzr)-[kubuntu-docs:153] [1006] du -h22:56
nixternal3.0M    .22:56
nixternalpetvillelogger: that is 60 images22:56
macoRiddell: the one i uploaded to the experimental ppa *did* have agateau's updated patch. or has it been updated again since then?22:56
danttiJontheEchidna: I think in kmix the object is deleted.. but hide() should work as well22:57
nixternalhrmm, DarkwingDuck for lucid+1, I think we will definitely need a kubuntu-desktop-docs and kubuntu-netbook-docs22:58
nixternalthe menu stuff isn't going to work with both :/22:58
DarkwingDucknixternal: I fully agree22:58
nixternalwhy did you tell me that sooner :p22:58
nixternaldon't know why I just thought about that22:58
DarkwingDuckI remember this conversation22:58
nixternalno you don't22:58
nixternalstop lying :p22:58
DarkwingDuckI think I said that around Karmic release22:59
* DarkwingDuck also remembers something about getting out from under ubuntu-doc wing22:59
nixternalyeah, what was the reasoning there now?23:03
nixternalcan't be commiting, because with bzr, branches, and merging, that is easy23:03
nixternalthey aren't telling me what to do, and i would rather have them automatically branch my stuff every release than having to do it myself :)23:04
JontheEchidnaoh, I forgot to initialize m_trayIcon as null in the PrintD constructor :D23:05
Riddellmaco: he updated his patch again23:07
DarkwingDucknixternal: true23:07
DarkwingDuckHowever, I think you're right... lucid+1 we should run kubuntu-desktop-docs and kubuntu-netbook-docs23:08
DarkwingDuckwe can also have a section int he netbook docs about touch screen PCs.23:09
DarkwingDuckOr tablets rather23:10
Riddellal: albert says join #kde-i18n for queries about i18n scripts23:10
JontheEchidnahmm, deleting a KStatusNotifierItem leaves a dead icon in the tray23:11
alRiddell: thanks, but i just got it working with intltool-merge moments ago23:11
alit was actually a bug in intltool i had to patch23:11
JontheEchidnaRiddell: would you happen to know if there's a way to test if this would happen if libdbusmenu-qt were not present?23:13
* JontheEchidna notes the abscence of agateau23:13
Riddellyou'd need to recompile kde4libs and kdebase-runtime without it23:13
JontheEchidnaRiddell: if you change KMix's preferences and hit apply, does KMix turn into a dead icon?23:16
JontheEchidnaactually, it'd be neat if I could get somebody running lucid and somebody running karmic to test that^23:16
DarkwingDucknixternal: are you refering to two seperate branches?23:17
RiddellJontheEchidna: does seem to yes23:18
nixternalno, we wouldn't have to23:18
DarkwingDuckWhat did you have in mind?23:19
nixternalwe would have one branch, and in there would be "desktop-docs" and "netbook-docs"23:19
nixternalgonna go eat..back in a bit23:19
JontheEchidnaRiddell: Ok, I guess I'll ping agateau about it when next he appears23:19
=== petvillelogger is now known as cpplogger
DarkwingDuckohhh. this is becoming a nightmare23:59

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