[01:44] <jjesse> what are the supported upgrade paths for 10.04?  just 9.10 to 10.04?
[01:46] <ScottK> Not sure.
[01:46] <ScottK> Riddell: Are we supporting other upgrade paths?
[01:49] <jjesse> ok just trying to finish documenting somethings
[01:49] <jjesse> since we didn't do a last LTS we shouldn't have to support anything further do we?
[01:54] <ScottK> We wouldn't have to, but I suspect it's reasonably trivial to support 8.04 -> 10.04 for us since it'll have to be supported for Ubuntu.
[02:00] <JontheEchidna> We've kept conflicts on the -kde4 packages present in 8.04 for this very reason, iirc
[02:08]  * JontheEchidna grumbles at bug 538524
[02:09] <JontheEchidna> Doesn't a post-freeze upload that prevents successful booting at the least deserve a heads-up?
[02:10] <JontheEchidna> s/deserve/warrant
[02:13] <jjesse> sorry lost my connection, last i saw was we weren't supporting the upgrade?
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> [21:54:19] <ScottK> We wouldn't have to, but I suspect it's reasonably trivial to support 8.04 -> 10.04 for us since it'll have to be supported for Ubuntu.
[02:13] <JontheEchidna> [22:00:51] <JontheEchidna> We've kept conflicts on the -kde4 packages present in 8.04 for this very reason, iirc
[02:14] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: It doesn't prevent it for everyone and in confirmed to fix several severe problems at least as bad.
[02:14] <ScottK> Please file bugs on plymouth ....
[02:15] <JontheEchidna> as I said, at the very least a heads-up would have been curteous
[02:17] <ScottK> I don't think it was anticipated it would make things worse for some people.
[02:17] <ScottK> It was pretty extensively discussed on #ubuntu-devel, IIRC.
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> Of course, nobody ever thinks about kdm.
[02:18] <ScottK> I think it's more graphics card related.
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> The upload required a patch for gdm, so it would follow that a similar patch would be needed for kdm
[02:18] <JontheEchidna> and it has been confirmed that the lack of a similar patch is the cause
[02:18] <ScottK> Oh.  I missed hat.
[02:18] <ScottK> Didn't know that.
[02:19] <ScottK> Is it clear how the gdm patch translates to kdm?
[02:19]  * ScottK wonders if it broke xdm too?
[02:19] <JontheEchidna> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/538524/comments/5 <- This is what we need to do
[02:20] <ScottK> Looking
[02:20] <JontheEchidna> Dunno how translatable the gdm patch will be, since gdm is C and kdm is C++
[02:20] <JontheEchidna> actually ,I wonder if the kdm core is c++. iirc it was forked from xdm
[02:21] <ScottK> No idea.  Maybe nixternal will fix it.
[02:21] <ScottK> IIRC he upstartified kdm.
[02:21] <jjesse> haha is upstartified a word?
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> The kdm backend does appear to be plain C
[02:23] <JontheEchidna> I targeted the bug to the beta milestone, so hopefully somebody on the release team will see it
[02:27] <ScottK> Seeing isn't the same as fixing.
[02:27] <ScottK> How's your C?
[02:32] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: maco can do C, but has almost no bandwidth.  Could you point her at the GDM patch and maybe the relevant files for KDM?
[02:33] <JontheEchidna> Hrm
[02:33] <JontheEchidna> gdm patch is here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40883554/gdm_2.29.92-0ubuntu1_2.29.92-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
[02:33] <JontheEchidna> I don't really see any corresponding file in kdm though...
[02:34] <JontheEchidna> maybe server.c?
[02:34] <JontheEchidna> oh, daemon.c looks more promising
[02:34] <maco> i have an old kdebase checkout. lemme poke through
[02:37] <maco> oh ugly. that gdm patch is a patch of a patch!
[02:38] <JontheEchidna> :S
[02:39] <maco> also, gdm has lovely glib stuff. kdm backend is xlib
[02:41] <maco> ok so gdm patch adds a function called plymouth_has_active_vt() that returns a boolean which runs "/bin/plymouth --has-active-vt" on the command line and returns that command's exit status.
[02:43] <ScottK> Go maco go.
[02:45] <maco> i figure the logs for the channel can be docs of what the patch is doing for me or someone to look at when trying to reimplement ;-)
[02:56] <maco> instead of gdm_server_start_on_active_vt () being called just on plymouth_is_running() it gets called when plymouth_is_running() AND has active vt. if its running but not active vt, it quits plymouth
[02:56] <maco> well, quits plymouth and starts gdm.
[02:59] <maco> there's more to this than just that
[02:59] <maco> but its not inside that patch :-/
[03:00] <maco> im grabbing current kdebase-workspace and hoping there are some plymouth functions already defined in it
[03:01] <maco> (says itll take 1.5h to download)
[03:05] <ScottK> maco: I marked you as having the bug in progress.   Please change it back if you  decide not to finish it up.
[03:05] <maco> ok
[03:52] <crimsun> please ping keybuk for follow-up
[03:52] <crimsun> he knows that code pretty well
[04:29] <maco> crimsun: he did the gdm stuff. does he know kdm as well?
[04:29] <crimsun> maco: he knows the plymouth and vt stuff.
[04:29] <maco> crimsun: i'm looking at kdebase-workspace-4.4.1/debian/patches/kubuntu_104_kdm_active_vt_plymouth.diff
[04:30] <maco> crimsun: ah ok
[04:36] <yuriy> i do think a change that required a patch to kdm merited an email to kubuntu-devel
[04:37] <yuriy> also having the DM be responsible for shutting down plymouth just doesn't sound right to me
[04:38] <persia> While I entirely agree with the sentiment that there should be notifications, I'd like to suggest that massive changes that affect multiple flavours (if not fixed) should be sent to ubuntu-devel@.
[04:38] <persia> Unless I misunderstand something, I believe kubuntu-devel@ is a closer mirror to ubuntu-desktop@
[05:05] <ScottK> That's correct.
[05:05] <ScottK> No mail there either.
[05:09] <persia> Indeed.  The desktop team needs to get more communicative.
[05:43] <ScottK> Actually Keybuk is in the Foundations team
[05:51] <persia> Yeah, that was mistargeted.  Apologies to those who may have been offended.
[05:51]  * persia was grumbly about something else anyway
[08:01] <shadeslayer> oi!
[08:01] <shadeslayer> sorry for that.... can someone change that back please
[09:53] <agateau> hey,
[09:54] <agateau> is daily iso known to work correctly lately
[09:54] <agateau> I have one from friday evening, and it fails to install from usb
[09:54] <agateau> I get the choice to install, then the ubuntu splash with the five dots
[09:55] <agateau> then (initramfs) prompt and an error about not finding /dev/sr0
[09:55] <agateau> :(
[10:07] <JohnFlux> Hey all
[10:09] <JohnFlux> I introduced a silly bug in KDE 4.4.0 and 4.4.1 - it would be great to get this fixed since presumably you won't be shipping with 4.4.2
[10:09] <JohnFlux> I'll file a bug report, but is there someone I could ask directly?
[10:11] <agateau> JohnFlux: I think we will ship 4.4.2 (at least we shipped 4.3.2 for Karmic)
[10:11] <agateau> Riddell: ^
[10:11] <JohnFlux> agateau: ah, here's to hoping
[10:12] <JohnFlux> Riddell: please use 4.4.2  or backport my fix (it's in the 4.4 branch)
[10:15] <Riddell> agateau: friday's was OK I think, on i386 at least
[10:15] <Riddell> bug 538524 may be affecting today's
[10:17] <JohnFlux> is alpha3 safe to install?
[10:18] <agateau> Riddell: I get stuck sooner than that: installation does not even start
[10:20] <JohnFlux> Riddell: can you give a nod that you read what I said :)  basically, in 4.4.1 the system activity (ctrl+esc dialog) doesn't update..
[10:22] <Riddell> JohnFlux: ack, if it's fixed in 4.4.2 we'll pick that up when it happens or you can throw a patch our way to apply next week (beta freeze this week I'm afraid)
[10:22] <JohnFlux> Riddell: yeah it's fixed in 4.4.2
[10:23] <JohnFlux> Riddell: I know you have lots to do, but if you get a chance, please press "ctrl+esc" at some point and check that it is updating.
[10:23] <JohnFlux> otherwise I'm going to be flooded with repeated bug reports about it ;-D
[10:23] <JohnFlux> although I do deserve it :)
[10:25] <Riddell> seems pretty static for now
[10:30] <agateau> Riddell: I need to update Amarok KSNI patch, do you know if Maco's package is going to be the shipped one?
[10:30] <agateau> Or should I update the patch from our current version instead?
[10:39] <Riddell> agateau: yes we'll ship maco's one
[10:39] <Riddell> which is in kubuntu-ppa/experimental
[10:39] <agateau> Riddell: ok, ignore my last email then :)
[10:40] <agateau> Riddell: re-updating the patch
[10:41] <agateau> Riddell: guess I should send it to maco instead
[10:44] <Riddell> agateau: probably not, she's away this week
[10:45] <agateau> Riddell: ok
[10:46] <agateau> Riddell: reminds me to warn you I won't be much connected for the next 3 days, as I will be holding kde booth at a french linux exhibition
[10:49] <Riddell> ooh la la
[10:49] <Riddell> agateau: got any kubuntu CDs?
[10:50] <agateau> Riddell: yup, and stickers and pens!
[10:50] <agateau> I have so much goodies I need to take my car to go there :)
[10:51] <Riddell> formidable
[11:33] <Riddell> agateau: today's CD seems in reasonable shape
[11:34] <agateau> Riddell: not affected by the kdm bug you pointed out?
[11:34] <Riddell> doesn't seem to be
[11:34] <agateau> ok, thanks, will give it a try then
[11:35] <Riddell> although I haven't done an install yet and I expect the installer still has the permissions and progress dialogue broken bugs I need to look at now
[11:40] <agateau> Riddell: does this bug prevent installation?
[11:41] <Riddell> agateau: no just the final "installing" dialogue won't show you progress, you can tail -f /var/log/syslog instead if you want
[11:41] <agateau> Riddell: ok, that's user friendly enough :)
[12:07] <freeflying> Riddell: you there?
[12:07] <Riddell> freeflying: I am
[13:20] <JontheEchidna> phonon 4.4.0 finally \o/
[13:21] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I pasted link to patch to qt 4.6 on saturday if anyone wants to package it
[13:22] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: we still get the backends from that tarball, though
[13:22] <JontheEchidna> right?
[13:23] <shadeslayer> sorry about the topic earlier :(
[13:23] <shadeslayer> jussi01: thanks for fixing that
[13:24] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: yes
[13:25] <Riddell> so they should be packaged at the same time
[13:25] <JontheEchidna> ah, yeah
[13:26] <JontheEchidna> Probably would be fine, though, since libphonon has been ahead of the backends for several months. Wouldn't hurt to upgrade both at the same time anyways
[13:34] <ScottK> Does anyone know if maco got anywhere on 538524?  I think that's an actual beta 1 blocker, so it'd be nice if someone got it fixed ...
[13:35] <Riddell> bug 538524
[13:36] <Riddell> ScottK: maco is away currently without internet, I doubt she'll be fixing it
[13:36] <ScottK> OK.  She had a bit of it last night.
[13:37] <ScottK> Of course I'm still waiting for an answer to: <slangasek> Keybuk: why is bug #538524 a kdm bug when plymouth is still marked as 'stop on starting kdm'?
[13:37] <ScottK> (asked ~8 hours ago on #ubuntu-devel)
[13:38] <Riddell> the live CD doesn't seem to be affected, I'm a bit scared to install though
[13:41] <shadeslayer> Riddell: cd testing?
[13:41] <shadeslayer> im planning to upgrade.....
[13:42] <Riddell> shadeslayer: are you asking me a question?
[13:42] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yes :P
[13:42] <shadeslayer> Riddell: im asking if the live CD needs to be tested?
[13:43] <Riddell> shadeslayer: not worth it yet, there are known issues in ubiquity
[13:44] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ah well...
[13:44] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: this is the patch? http://home.samfundet.no/~sandsmark/phonon-4.4-for-qt-4.6.2.patch
[13:45] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's the one
[13:45] <davmor2> Riddell: that shock issue in ubiquity surely not ;)
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: The plan is, to go to kde-phonon entirely in lucid+1?
[13:47] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: my thinking would be go with separate qtwebkit and phonon yes
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> That'll probably help with compile time, especially handy for ports
[13:47] <Riddell> mm, yes
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> QtWebKit is supposedly a beast to build
[13:48] <Riddell> it's not small
[13:50] <JontheEchidna> the debian websvn browser is painful :(
[13:51] <Riddell> it has two
[13:51] <Riddell> try the other one if you don't like the one you're using
[13:52] <JontheEchidna> I'm using this one: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-kde/trunk/packages/phonon/debian/
[13:52] <Riddell> try http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-kde/trunk/packages/phonon/debian/
[13:53] <JontheEchidna> oo, much better. looks like KDE's
[13:54] <JontheEchidna> http://svn.debian.org/viewsvn/pkg-kde?view=rev&revision=17194 <- Wonder if that's behind pyqt not finding phonon when using kde-only phonon
[13:55] <JontheEchidna> well, I wonder if the situation before that revision was the cause :)
[13:55] <Riddell> why do we care about pyqt not finding phonon when using kde-only phonon if we don't use  kde-only phonon?
[13:56] <JontheEchidna> we don't at the moment
[13:56] <JontheEchidna> I'm just curious :)
[14:03] <Riddell> well install from today's live CD boots fine but only on the second boot
[14:03] <Riddell> first one froze at plymouth splash
[14:07] <maco> Riddell: i'm online right now. i was figuring out how the current gdm and kdm patches work last night
[14:07] <maco> Riddell: i bought a week of net access, its just very slow :)
[14:08] <Riddell> coding while skiing!  impressive
[14:08] <maco> Riddell: it was when i got home from skiing :P slopes close at 430pm
[14:09] <maco> and "right now" is "waiting for breakfast" :)
[14:18] <maco> if i cant figure out kdm tonight, might want to start looking for someone else, because beta's *soon*
[14:19] <al> dpm: stupid question: how do i merge .desktop files with rosetta desktop po files without writing my own script?
[14:23] <dpm> hi al, normally this is done with a tool called intltool-merge, used by most of the programs which use gettext and .desktop files
[14:24] <Riddell> KDE doesn't use intltool
[14:24] <al> i must be doing it wrong then
[14:24] <Riddell> although you probably could
[14:25] <dpm> Riddell, how are the translations merged into the .desktop files in the KDE world, then? Note also that the question is probably for quassel, which does not use the usual KDE setup if I'm not mistaken
[14:26] <Riddell> it's done by one of the scripts in here http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n-kde4/scripts/
[14:26] <Riddell> merge_desktop_files.sh seems a likely candidate
[14:27] <dpm> ah, thanks Riddell. al: you might be able to use that instead of intltool ^
[14:27] <Riddell> but yes quassel developers probably know the right answer since they'll have to do it independent of KDE's SVN script bot
[14:28] <ScottK> Riddell: al would be the quassel developer in question ...
[14:29] <Riddell> oh, doh
[14:29] <Riddell> then tsdgeos would be the guy to ask upstream
[14:34] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I'm still seeing the icon cache on today's CD so we might have to reopen that bug
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> reopening
[14:36] <al> yea, we're still .. improving on the whole translation thing ;)
[14:36] <al> thanks for the pointers
[14:41] <Sput> I'm actually amazed that it works as well as it does, importing stuff from LP and all
[14:42] <Sput> thanks to dpm and al :)
[15:01] <dpm> Sput, team effort :). I'm happy to hear that it works well, especially given that it is not the standard translations setup.
[15:05] <Sput> someone should lobby the trolls to adopt the standard system instead of insisting in using their own :P
[15:05] <Riddell> that would be nice
[15:06] <Riddell> I don't know if gettext exists on all platforms they support though, it certainly didn't when they first did i18n
[15:27] <seaLne> what package is it that the kubuntu customisation of ubiquity comes from? ie why does one of the while i'm installing screens still talk about k desktop environment instead of kde sc
[15:27] <ScottK> seaLne: ubiquity, IIRC.
[15:34] <Riddell> seaLne: the install slideshow is ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu
[15:37] <seaLne> bugs.lp dosen't seem to think it exists? i'd tried after finding -ubuntu
[15:43] <seaLne> is it just the same package?
[15:48] <seaLne> Bug #539147
[15:50] <Riddell> seaLne: yes it's built from ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[15:50] <seaLne> k
[15:51] <Riddell> seaLne: note that the content is due to be updated, it's currently just quickly done content
[15:51] <Riddell> nixternal is working on it
[15:52] <seaLne> ah ok
[16:12] <Riddell> maco: I updated amarok with a newer patch from agateau and uploaded a karmic version to backports PPA
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> Was it decided if we wanted strigi to be run by default or not?
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> It's quite resource-intensive if enabled, especially for systems on the lower end of our minimum requirements
[16:42] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I suspect not, or maybe only on limited directories like Documents and Music etc
[16:45] <ScottK> Riddell: Could was also do something about the indexing started/stopped notifications.  When I unplug and go on battery, I don't need that one along with the "you're on battery now" one.
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> That whole tray icon should go, imo
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> well, I suppose the tray icon and the notifications are separate, but they're both unnecessary
[16:46] <ScottK> Autohide by default would be good.
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> it is autohidden, except when its indexing
[16:47] <JontheEchidna> then you have an icon changing the layout of your systray as the system does something that the user shouldn't really have to care about
[16:47] <ScottK> Makes sense
[16:49] <Riddell> that needs patches I expect
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> We've done a similar patch before, but it was dropped because it failed to apply due to nepomuk updates. (Plus we didn't support nepomuk at the time)
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> shouldn't be too much work to re-introduce
[16:52] <JontheEchidna> This annoys the heck out of me too: http://imagebin.ca/view/xQWsMWb5.html
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> Should read: "Presenting a focus-stealing popup telling you that PIM magic normal people don't care about starting up"
[16:55] <JontheEchidna> It's totally unecessary and always pops up as I'm typing in my password for kwallet
[16:55] <JontheEchidna> akonadi always fails to start afterwards, but that's a different gripe :P
[16:55] <daskreech> I was about to say that is followed by Akonadi did not start
[16:55]  * agateau agrees with JontheEchidna
[16:55] <daskreech> Perhaps Knotify it ?
[16:56] <JontheEchidna> Why should I care if the magic plumbing for kmail is starting? Shouldn't it just work?
[16:56]  * daskreech grumbles as he tries to figure out what happened to MySQL so that akonadi won't start
[16:57] <daskreech> DbUS has been killing apps left and right since the other day
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> If all apps did this, we'd have KNetworkManager giving us a focus-stealing popup telling us that NetworkManager was starting, we'd have Quassel telling us that it was starting its sqlite database, and so forth
[17:00] <ScottK> Agreed.
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> [/rant]
[17:01] <daskreech> And plasma for Amarok :)
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> I suppose in summation: Splash screens are evil, but focus-stealing splash screens for backend bits are extra evil
[17:04] <daskreech> Don't be Evil
[17:06] <JontheEchidna> exactly :)
[17:18] <apachelogger> did anyone package amarok?
[17:22] <daskreech> Can konversation's default channel list be changed according to locale?
[17:27] <Sput> fwiw, in KDE trunk akonadi doesn't show the popup anymore
[17:32] <Riddell> releaselogger: yes amarok is in backports for karmic and experimental for lucid
[17:32] <releaselogger> cool, thx
[17:33] <DarkwingDuck> sebas: ping
[17:33] <releaselogger> daskreech: I am quite sure I asked Sput to consider this when quassel was implementing that stuff :P
[17:33] <releaselogger> dunno about konvi though
[17:33] <releaselogger> most likely not
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> Has the kres migrator popped up for anybody else during iso testing and so forth? (new install/user)
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> I'm trying to figure out why it keeps popping up when my clean testuser logs in
[17:37] <JontheEchidna> (it starts the whole akonadi stack even if a PIM app isn't in use, wasting 20 MB RAM)
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> one wonders why the default kresource for the address book isn't pre-converted to akonadi...
[17:44] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: there's a krunner which starts akonadi
[17:44] <Riddell> on the live CD we disable that with
[17:44] <Riddell> rm -f /root/usr/share/kde4/services/plasma-runner-contacts.desktop  # starts akonadi
[17:48] <releaselogger> uhm
[17:48] <releaselogger> we probably should not have that beasty
[17:49] <ScottK> Yeah.
[17:49] <releaselogger> I would find it rather confusing to have all sorts of dialogs popup that are completely unrelated to login stuff
[17:51] <jtechidna> I'm trying to hunt down why kaddressbook or whatever doesn't use an akonadi address book in the first place
[18:05] <JontheEchidna> bah, I can
[18:05] <JontheEchidna> bah, I can't find where that silly file gets created
[18:08] <JontheEchidna> releaselogger: what does releaselogger mean?
[18:09] <releaselogger> JontheEchidna: that I am in a I-am-kind-of-helping-with-a-release-state ;)
[18:10] <JontheEchidna> i c
[18:27] <daskreech> releaselogger: well what would be ideal is that it appends the correct local channel as well as #kubuntu
[18:27] <daskreech> Quite a number of locales only have a #ubuntu-cc
[18:28] <releaselogger> go talk to sput :P
[18:28] <daskreech> Sput!!!!
[18:30] <nixternal> he said talk to him, not yell at him
[18:31]  * releaselogger throws Re(z_{1}) and Re(z_{2}) at daskreech
[18:31] <releaselogger> there, now I dont even have to think about their relation
[18:31] <releaselogger> muahahahha
[18:31] <Riddell> holy guacamole, our CD is only 620MB large
[18:31] <JontheEchidna> :o
[18:32] <Riddell> daily one that is
[18:32] <Riddell> daily-live  at 663M
[18:33] <releaselogger> now if only we could get rid of python :P
[18:33] <releaselogger> imagine the freedom
[18:33] <releaselogger> and then get rid of openoffice :P
[18:33] <releaselogger> we coud squeeze all of KDE on one CD ;)
[18:33] <nixternal> get rid of it all, just leave gnu tools
[18:33] <JontheEchidna> :P
[18:33] <releaselogger> nah
[18:33]  * Riddell throws Languages: de fr onto the CDs for beta
[18:33] <releaselogger> that would imply that we ship emacs
[18:33] <releaselogger> and by vader, I hate emacs
[18:33] <nixternal> kubuntu-docs will fill up that blank void on the cds
[18:34] <nixternal> as soon as people get their job done...i finished all of my work, *cough* jjesse, *cough* DarkwingDuck
[18:35] <nixternal> 10 days before string freeze
[18:35] <nixternal> lovely
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> yay, Qt w/ latest phonon patch built
[18:37] <Riddell> awooga
[18:37] <Riddell> nixternal: what's the status of the slideshow?
[18:37] <daskreech> nixternal: Sorry. It's the Shatner in me
[18:38] <nixternal> the text is done, ask shtylman what's up, he knows more about it
[18:39] <jjesse> nixternal: umm need to work more on that, first up tonight finish book chpt, second finish to dos on kubuntu docs
[18:39] <DarkwingDuck> lol
[18:40] <nixternal> jjesse: want me to take the office topic?
[18:40] <nixternal> or have you already started on it?
[18:40] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: I'll have it done by COB on wed
[18:40] <DarkwingDuck> if not sooner
[18:41] <nixternal> desktop and web topic?
[18:41] <DarkwingDuck> yes
[18:41] <DarkwingDuck> and updated netbook
[18:41] <nixternal> I have no idea where dhillonv is, so I am going to probably rip his section out from under him and probably not include it in lucid
[18:43] <jjesse> nixternal: didn't i do a checkin?
[18:43] <jjesse> for office?
[18:43] <jjesse> need to finish update
[18:43] <jjesse> probablly doesn't validate :)
[18:44] <nixternal> jjesse: office is still blank in the repos
[18:44] <nixternal> config-desktop is broken, but an easy fix to validate
[18:44] <jjesse> ummm wonder what happened that office is blank
[18:44] <jjesse> cause i thought i commited
[18:44] <jjesse> going to have to dig through things tonight
[18:45] <nixternal> oh, it isn't blank, there is some stuff in there
[18:46] <jjesse> yay
[18:46] <nixternal> I HATE JOB HUNTING!!!
[18:46] <nixternal> I need a job to come to me dangit!
[18:50] <DarkwingDuck> lol
[18:55] <txwikinger> nixternal: Jobhunting is a job just by itself... not very well paid, but needs even more effort ;)
[18:55] <jjesse> jobhunting sucks
[18:56]  * txwikinger has no time for job hunting
[18:56] <txwikinger> It used to be that job hunters would hunt me
[18:59]  * JontheEchidna notes that putting firefox on the livecd would only take up 11 MB now
[19:06] <JontheEchidna> Actually, I don't think the plymouth bug mentioned in #ubuntu+1's topic is related to ours
[19:07] <crimsun> no, weak correlation at best
[19:07] <crimsun> plymouth is a beast to debug because of all the intertwined subsystems
[19:07] <crimsun> kinda like audio now that I think on it...
[19:10] <yuriy_work> a splash screen is as complicated as the overly complicated audio stack/web. i'm scared.
[19:11] <crimsun> yuriy_work: different kind of madness
[19:11] <crimsun> yuriy_work: with splash, you have to worry about the corner cases of ordering of different processes
[19:12] <crimsun> yuriy_work: with audio, you have to worry about how different processes abuse existing misconfigurations
[19:13] <crimsun> i.e., it's fairly easy to spin a derivative that has no pulse, or one that has support for nothing but pulse and rejects anything attempting to bypass pulse, etc.
[19:17] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: No.  That was a different one.
[19:18] <ScottK> Feel free to adjust /topic
[19:22] <shtylman_> Riddell: any logo magic happen
[19:22] <shtylman_> ?
[19:42] <crimsun> nixternal: ping, PM ok?
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> dantti: Still needs a bit of work: http://imagebin.ca/view/3syGYDsB.html
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> :D
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> and also the menu for teh applet will quit the whole of kded :(
[20:00] <dantti> JontheEchidna: hmm nice, did you saw http://dantti.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/printprogress/  ?
[20:01] <JontheEchidna> yeah, looks pretty neat
[20:01] <JontheEchidna> Btw, I successfully canceled a few jobs with the print queue
[20:01] <ScottK> Please fewer giant icons.
[20:02] <dantti> ScottK: there is a loooot of empty space..
[20:02] <ScottK> dantti: Then make the window smaller.
[20:02] <dantti> I can't make a window smaller
[20:03] <dantti> the user can simply resize it....
[20:03] <dantti> also, hopefully nuno will make some diferent ones for lazer printers and I find them very good looking..
[20:04] <dantti> I tried a bit smaller but it got weird..
[20:05] <dantti> actually if I try 92x92 might get better... but 64 is too small..
[20:15] <Sput> whoa these icons really are giant
[20:21] <ScottK> Sput: My point exactly.
[20:21] <ScottK> They remind me of the kpackagekit icons (of which my opinions are a matter of public record).
[20:23] <dantti> ScottK: which kpackageKit icons? kpk doesn't have huge icons..
[20:23] <dantti> they are now iirc 32x32
[20:23] <dantti> same size of kickoff ones..
[20:24] <ScottK> dantti: OK.  I didn't look recently.
[20:24] <ScottK> The ones we have in Karmic are huge (for update notification)
[20:25] <dantti> ScottK: they should be the same size of the printer list since it's the "same" delegate...
[20:25] <ScottK> This, of course, gets back to me just wanting the systray icon to let me know there are updates.
[20:25] <dantti> lol
[20:25] <dantti> sure...
[20:30]  * Sput wonders if the printer icons serve any real purpose
[20:30] <Sput> at least for HP tools, they look like your actual printer and help you identify the model
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> dantti: kde svn 1103757
[20:41] <dantti> JontheEchidna: nice :D I can't test that though... no kde4.4 packages yet :(
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> :(
[20:41] <JontheEchidna> dantti: So what should clicking the tray icon load up? The queue?
[20:42] <dantti> i think so
[20:42] <dantti> JontheEchidna: I tought the right click to have a menu to see it's status and pause/resume it..
[20:43] <JontheEchidna> pause/resume all jobs?
[20:43] <dantti> and the tool tip to be "printer description\nIdle or Printing 'foo'"
[20:43] <dantti> JontheEchidna: no the printer ..
[20:43] <dantti> not sure though..
[20:44] <JontheEchidna> dantti: looks like this currently: http://imagebin.ca/view/mA-uyszp.html
[20:45] <JontheEchidna> the default context menu has an item that will quit kded :D
[20:45] <JontheEchidna> and clicking the icon does nothing currently
[20:45] <JontheEchidna> I'm thinking we'll have to give it a custom context menu
[20:45] <ScottK> Does our pkg-kde-tools translations magic need something like http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40963610/cdbs_0.4.62+nmu1ubuntu6_source.changes
[20:46] <dantti> JontheEchidna: hmm i know that problem.. you have to provide you own menu
[20:46] <dantti> JontheEchidna: kmix for example doesn't have the quit button on the slide menu..
[20:46] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: I don't think we use grouping like that
[20:47] <ScottK> OK.  Just checking.
[20:47] <dantti> JontheEchidna: btw it's looking pretty nice, I just miss the printer description or name...
[20:48] <JontheEchidna> dantti: yeah, still fairly fresh. I have to go eat now, but I'll be back in a bit
[20:52] <ScottK> crimsun: FYI, in case you didn't see it, there's a security announcement from Debian on a pulseaudio issue.  See DSA 2017-1.
[20:56] <crimsun> ScottK: yeah, I uploaded the fix to Lucid last week
[20:57] <crimsun> it's quite low importance according to keess
[20:57] <crimsun> -s
[20:58] <ScottK> OK.  Cool.
[21:04]  * Riddell pre-empts the Amarok news item with http://www.kubuntu.org/news/amarok-4.3.0  
[21:06] <Riddell> ahem http://www.kubuntu.org/news/amarok-2.3.0
[21:11] <Tscheesy> Riddell: ^^ - already spreaded .D
[21:20] <ScottK> Is the NM icon in http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/03/plasma-netbook-reference-platform_15.html nm-applet or is there some KNM icon we don't have yet?
[21:23] <JontheEchidna> look nm-applet-y
[21:25] <ScottK> Seems a bit odd for a plasma-netbook reference platform.  sebas should go fix it.
[21:25] <JontheEchidna> it's probably just suse + plasma-netbook, from the looks of the blog :P
[21:26] <ScottK> I'd think Suse of all places should manage KNM.
[21:26] <JontheEchidna> true
[21:27] <shtylman_> we still getting a new webpage for lucid?
[21:30] <Sput> ScottK: yeah, that's definitely not KNM
[21:30] <Sput> I'm tracking trunk, it never had that icon :)
[21:30] <Sput> it's not 2002 anymore...
[21:41] <Riddell> shtylman_: maybe, ofir is working on a new website design
[21:42] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: have you had any issues saving a new connection with the netowrk management plasmoid?
[21:42] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: no
[21:42] <DarkwingDuck> Hmm...
[21:43] <DarkwingDuck> I visited my parents place and it was giving me fits saving their connection and connecting. I restarted it and it worked just fine
[21:44] <DarkwingDuck> I'll be at the airport on Wednesday and I'll try again there.
[21:53] <JontheEchidna> dantti: http://imagebin.ca/view/qNYeiMjz.html
[21:54] <dantti> JontheEchidna: nice but what about what it's doing?
[21:54] <JontheEchidna> e.g. printing, pending, etc?
[21:55] <dantti> like "Epson... \n Printing 'foo.odt'"
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> is there a nice way to get only the currently printing/queued document?
[21:56] <dantti> JontheEchidna: hmm no, you need to get the list of the pirnting jobs :/
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> this is how I'm getting the print name:
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> +        QString dest = QString::fromLocal8Bit(jobs->dest);
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> +        kDebug() << "Printer name: " << dest;
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> lemme commit
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> committed as r1103793
[21:58] <dantti> JontheEchidna: loot at printqueueui.cpp
[21:59] <dantti> lines 106 to 118
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> oh, you can pull that data out during the cupsGetJobs function. Interesting
[21:59] <JontheEchidna> wait, nvm
[22:00] <JontheEchidna> ok, I see
[22:01] <dantti> :)
[22:02] <JontheEchidna> cups isn't a very nice api
[22:06] <dantti> JontheEchidna: why?
[22:06] <JontheEchidna> Roundabout ways of getting to info, I guess
[22:07] <dantti> well the problem is that it works as http, you get the info that is avalilable at that "site"
[22:09] <dantti> I think it should be a bit better docummented but It seems to work quite well..
[22:09] <dantti> some stuff I had to look at the cups sources.. but nothing so hard to do..
[22:21] <JontheEchidna> dantti: http://imagebin.ca/view/rzfXff.html
[22:21] <dantti> JontheEchidna: hmm that much nicer imo..
[22:22] <dantti> :)
[22:22] <JontheEchidna> :)
[22:24] <dantti> I'm trying to work on the configure interface now
[22:24] <dantti> but I's a bit hard to make that simple..
[22:25] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: could you check if the amarok package is actually published in the ppa?
[22:25] <Nightrose> i have 3 people say there is no update for karmic
[22:25] <Nightrose> (plus me)
[22:27] <JontheEchidna> It's not there. Doesn't look like it was ever uploaded either
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: ^
[22:28] <Riddell> hum
[22:28] <Riddell> oh, I uploaded it as source format 3.0
[22:28] <Riddell> duh
[22:28] <JontheEchidna> :)
[22:32] <ryanakca> shtylman_: I hope so. Ofir is currently working on the feature tour, I think the main site is nearly done
[22:33] <shtylman_> ryanakca: cool
[22:33] <shtylman_> we want to be new and shiny like ubuntu :)
[22:40] <daskreech> "Like Ubuntu" is kind of a loaded statement isn't it?
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> dantti: What do we do when a user clicks on the tray icon, and there are jobs for two printers in the queue? Just show the queue of the printer that has the current job?
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> I could see how having a combined queue would be useful too
[22:41]  * mathlogger would find it counter intuitive if it only showed jobs of one printer
[22:41] <dantti> hmm if you have two queues you should habe two icons..
[22:41] <mathlogger> either show a general status overview or a combined job list
[22:41] <dantti> JontheEchidna: so one icon for one printer/queue
[22:41] <JontheEchidna> one tray icon per printer?
[22:41] <mathlogger> that is also counter intutive
[22:41] <mathlogger> how am I supposed to know which one is one?
[22:42] <JontheEchidna> I think I have to agree
[22:42] <dantti> yup while we don't have a queue that can show grouped jobs
[22:42] <daskreech> One icon, List of queues
[22:42] <daskreech> If there is one queue simplfy to jobs
[22:42] <dantti> you would know which one is one by the tool tip + icon
[22:42] <mathlogger> dantti: then show one overview dialog where the user can choose the queue to show
[22:42] <dantti> but as an option we could group them
[22:43] <mathlogger> multiple tray icons are not going to do any good
[22:43] <mathlogger> dantti: and that is good HCI?
[22:43]  * mathlogger blinks
[22:43]  * daskreech thinks of one Corporate environment with 5 printer pools
[22:43] <daskreech> Where poll != printer
[22:43] <daskreech> Pool
[22:44] <dantti> well then what we could do is to open the queue if the there only one with jobs, other wise we show a menu with printer/status
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> then clicking on the printer items would open up the queue of that printer?
[22:45] <dantti> yup
[22:45] <mathlogger> sounds good
[22:46]  * mathlogger would also consider showing the chooser if there are multiple printers but only one with content in queue
[22:46] <yuriy_work> dunno exactly what the discussion is with the queues, but I think the ground rule should be if you have only one printer, you don't have to see any of that stuff
[22:46]  * mathlogger agrees with yuriy_work
[22:47] <dantti> plus the tray icon would not be there if there are no jobs so showing the chooser wouldn't be needed imo
[22:48] <JontheEchidna> Actually, I'm not quite sure how to safely destroy a KStatusNotifierItem. The best I can do at the moment it to make it hide itself. (It is still accessible by the systray's arrow, but is hidden by default)
[22:48] <mathlogger> well, I don't know what the queue dialog looks like, but imagine the scenario where user prints multiple documents to n>2 printers and at some points wants to check how far they are along
[22:49] <mathlogger> in this particular case only showing one queue would be weird, since the user issued multiple jobs to multiple printers
[22:49] <mathlogger> and in the worst case it might lead to the user doubting himself and checking if he actually printed the other stuff etc.
[22:49] <mathlogger> dunno though
[22:50]  * mathlogger finds that all rather advanced foo + mathlogger doesn't have any printer :P
[22:50]  * JontheEchidna plays "let's crash kded"
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> crash!
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> I win
[22:51] <DarkwingDuck> kpackagekit is being a pain...
[22:51] <petvillelogger> JontheEchidna: I think as a developer the target should be to not crash kded :P
[22:52] <nixternal> crimsun: yo yo, pm is always ok
[22:53] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: what I don't finish tomorrow at the laundromat I'll finish on the flight to mississippi
[22:53] <nixternal> hehe
[22:53] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah Funny. :P
[22:54] <DarkwingDuck> when is the freeze?
[22:54] <nixternal> 9 days
[22:54] <DarkwingDuck> Ok.
[22:54] <DarkwingDuck> I'll also help finalize a review prior to that.
[22:54] <nixternal> we need it in asap, so I will probaly get the package in tomorrow, so at least we can have some eyes on it to fix typos and what not
[22:55] <petvillelogger> nixternal: remember to optimize them images
[22:55] <DarkwingDuck> *nods*
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> for some reason I'm getting a crash at line 29 here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/395869/
[22:55] <DarkwingDuck> I might just stay up and finish them tonight
[22:55] <nixternal> dude, i was trying to find a box at a neighboring company to my dad's for jono on some stuff I am shipping him...and there was this embankment that I misjudged...i fell hard down it, rolled like I was in a movie
[22:55] <nixternal> petvillelogger: I have been optimizing them
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> shouldn't line 12 ensure the existence of m_trayIcon?
[22:56] <DarkwingDuck> I saw that on twitter LOL
[22:56] <nixternal> I think image wise we are around 3mb
[22:56] <petvillelogger> omg!!!!
[22:56] <petvillelogger> that is superzied
[22:56] <nixternal> >>> (bzr)-[kubuntu-docs:153] [1006] du -h
[22:56] <petvillelogger> -typos
[22:56] <nixternal> 3.0M    .
[22:56] <nixternal> petvillelogger: that is 60 images
[22:56] <maco> Riddell: the one i uploaded to the experimental ppa *did* have agateau's updated patch. or has it been updated again since then?
[22:57] <dantti> JontheEchidna: I think in kmix the object is deleted.. but hide() should work as well
[22:58] <nixternal> hrmm, DarkwingDuck for lucid+1, I think we will definitely need a kubuntu-desktop-docs and kubuntu-netbook-docs
[22:58] <nixternal> the menu stuff isn't going to work with both :/
[22:58] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: I fully agree
[22:58] <nixternal> why did you tell me that sooner :p
[22:58] <nixternal> don't know why I just thought about that
[22:58] <DarkwingDuck> ppppppppppppppppppplllllllllllll
[22:58] <DarkwingDuck> I remember this conversation
[22:58] <DarkwingDuck> :P
[22:58] <nixternal> no you don't
[22:58] <nixternal> stop lying :p
[22:59] <DarkwingDuck> ROFL
[22:59] <DarkwingDuck> I think I said that around Karmic release
[22:59]  * DarkwingDuck also remembers something about getting out from under ubuntu-doc wing
[23:00] <DarkwingDuck> :P
[23:03] <nixternal> yeah, what was the reasoning there now?
[23:03] <nixternal> can't be commiting, because with bzr, branches, and merging, that is easy
[23:04] <nixternal> they aren't telling me what to do, and i would rather have them automatically branch my stuff every release than having to do it myself :)
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> oh, I forgot to initialize m_trayIcon as null in the PrintD constructor :D
[23:07] <Riddell> maco: he updated his patch again
[23:07] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: true
[23:08] <DarkwingDuck> However, I think you're right... lucid+1 we should run kubuntu-desktop-docs and kubuntu-netbook-docs
[23:09] <DarkwingDuck> we can also have a section int he netbook docs about touch screen PCs.
[23:10] <DarkwingDuck> Or tablets rather
[23:10] <Riddell> al: albert says join #kde-i18n for queries about i18n scripts
[23:11] <JontheEchidna> hmm, deleting a KStatusNotifierItem leaves a dead icon in the tray
[23:11] <al> Riddell: thanks, but i just got it working with intltool-merge moments ago
[23:11] <al> it was actually a bug in intltool i had to patch
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: would you happen to know if there's a way to test if this would happen if libdbusmenu-qt were not present?
[23:13]  * JontheEchidna notes the abscence of agateau
[23:13] <Riddell> you'd need to recompile kde4libs and kdebase-runtime without it
[23:13] <JontheEchidna> bla
[23:16] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: if you change KMix's preferences and hit apply, does KMix turn into a dead icon?
[23:16] <JontheEchidna> actually, it'd be neat if I could get somebody running lucid and somebody running karmic to test that^
[23:17] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: are you refering to two seperate branches?
[23:18] <nixternal> yes
[23:18] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: does seem to yes
[23:18] <nixternal> well,
[23:18] <nixternal> no, we wouldn't have to
[23:19] <DarkwingDuck> What did you have in mind?
[23:19] <nixternal> we would have one branch, and in there would be "desktop-docs" and "netbook-docs"
[23:19] <nixternal> gonna go eat..back in a bit
[23:19] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: Ok, I guess I'll ping agateau about it when next he appears
[23:59] <DarkwingDuck> ohhh. this is becoming a nightmare