psusiugh, I hate hal... it is such an undocumented flaming mess00:58
Keybukfortunately it's mostly dead00:58
psusiI still have a hald-addon-cpufreq running and can't figure out WTF it's doing... it doesn't recognize --help, has no man page, and I'm coming up short on google01:02
=== dyfet` is now known as dyfet
ScottKcody-somerville: I suspect https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/538524/comments/5 applies to xdm if someone didn't make the equivalent change already.03:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538524 in kdebase-workspace "boot hangs on splash screen, doesn't switch to KDM" [High,In progress]03:06
=== MattJ100 is now known as MattJ
slangasekKeybuk: why is bug #538524 a kdm bug when plymouth is still marked as 'stop on starting kdm'?05:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538524 in kdebase-workspace "boot hangs on splash screen, doesn't switch to KDM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53852405:27
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew_
pittiGood morning06:35
\shmvo: julian fixed the python-apt-doc bug in debian...I wonder if we can backport this or do you want to push new python-apt into ubuntu?07:55
\shmvo: and good morning ;)07:55
mvo\sh: good morning! there is a freeze exception for this pending, I have not checked this morning. I would like to get the new p-apt08:01
\shmvo: sounds good :)08:06
mvootherwise I guess a backport is it08:07
* \sh needs more coffee08:08
dholbachgood morning08:11
\shmoins dholbach08:11
dholbachhi \sh08:11
mvohey dholbach08:14
dholbachhey mvo08:14
looldoko__: I don't think it's worth disabling the valgrind build on armel; it's probably easier to keep the binaries around to help debugging09:22
cjwatsonI wish people would attach log files as log files rather than tarring them up09:27
loolcjwatson: perhaps we should point them more strongly at apport and make sure the hook does the right thing?09:28
cjwatsonnot always feasible, and I'm not always talking about Ubuntu bugs anyway :-)09:29
* lool didn't mention Ubuntu either :->09:29
doko__lool: ok, fine with me10:06
=== doko__ is now known as doko
looldoko: thanks10:08
=== Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok
dokokees: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40944002/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-ia64.qt4-x11_4%3A4.6.2-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz  the build did succeed without your stack-protector patch; no clue if it's really related to this ...11:03
cjwatsonKeybuk: do you think it would be worth changing loadkeys to read the keymap with zlib directly rather than forking gzip?11:19
Keybukwill it make much difference?11:19
cjwatsonthe bootcharts have enough variance that I'm not sure I can measure accurately11:19
cjwatsoncentiseconds maybe, I guess you want everything you can get though? :)11:20
Keybukthe console-setup stuff creates about a 1s regression in time for me consistently11:21
cjwatsonthere is a noticeable amount of CPU spent in loadkeys, although I'm not sure how much of that is the zillion ioctls11:21
cjwatsonreally?  I couldn't see any regression on the bootcharts that I could pin on console-setup11:21
cjwatsonthere were differences in time, but they seemed to be accountable to other things11:21
cjwatson(I looked as carefully as I could last night)11:22
Keybukyou're doing it on "starting" mountall, right?11:22
Keybukor something similar?11:22
cjwatsonthe only regression I could see from console-setup was a 0.08s increase in plumbing time on SSD11:22
cjwatsonstart on (virtual-filesystems or starting rcS or starting mountall-shell)11:23
Keybukon the SSD charts, they've got 0.3s slower since adding console-setup11:23
cjwatsonthey seemed to have practically that much variance anyway11:23
Keybukyes, but they've gone up consistently since then11:24
cjwatsonright, but I looked at the bootcharts and I couldn't see how that accounted to console-setup11:24
cjwatsonnot with any accuracy11:24
KeybukI guess because it runs alongside plymouth, ureadahead, mountall, udev, etc.11:25
Keybukso it slows all those things down11:25
Keybukit's probably "doing too many things at once"11:25
cjwatsonok, well we're certainly doing something we weren't doing at all before, due to a bug11:25
cjwatsonbut I can see if I can trim out any more fat11:25
KeybukI'm kinda tired of the boot stuff; every time we speed it up, someone manages to slow it down again11:26
Keybukand mostly it's DX not you ;-)11:26
Keybukso please read my slight grumpiness as not directed towards you11:26
Keybukthe console-setup stuff is obviously a needed thing we have to fit in there somehow :p11:26
cjwatsonin some cases I was seeing X actually starting faster after console-setup; I'm not sure I know how to read these as well as you do11:26
cjwatsonand the variance on the HDD charts is hopeless of course11:27
Keybukdunno, X seems a bit slower in general at the moment again11:27
Keybukyeah, HDD is crap to read11:27
cjwatsonoh I meant the start of X11:27
Keybukright, that's what I mean, X init phase11:27
Keybukthat could be the fact plymouth isn't dicking around with it either of course11:27
cjwatsonno, I meant the point on the chart at which X starts :-)11:27
cjwatsonnot the time it takes to start11:27
Keybukoh, that varies a bit11:27
Keybukbut yeah, it's all a bit jumbly11:27
Keybukhoping that after β1, people will stop randomly changing stuff, and we'll be able to tweak it a little bit more11:28
cjwatsonso there's the double call to setfont I mentioned, and zlib might make a difference - we're punting 120K of data around over read/write when we don't need to.  won't be a whole lot but it might be enough to let other things be scheduled more efficiently11:28
Keybukon the bright side, the VT switch bug proves what I've been saying about compiz all along <g>11:28
Keybukyeah, sometimes minor tweaks like that can have the most effect11:29
cjwatsonwe're also loading the font file in userspace six times, so it might be worth seeing if we can modify setfont so that we can call it just once after all the ttys are ready, although I'm a bit worried about that introducing new races11:29
Keybukit might remove some11:30
cjwatsonmaybe, it's all annoyingly delicate11:30
Keybuktalking of which, still need to debug these two remaining plymouth issues11:34
cjwatsonKeybuk: you know, we might gain by simply not bothering to gzip the font; none of the console font files are bigger than 34523 bytes uncompressed11:42
cjwatsonfor the keymap it's more questionable, but we only load that once vs. six times11:42
Keybukmakes sense11:42
Keybukwhen do you set the font btw?11:42
Keybukafter fbcon is loaded, I assume?11:43
cjwatsonyes - well, both before and after unfortunately, as we don't really know whether fbcon is going to be loaded11:43
cjwatsonI'm not implacably opposed to removing the "before" if that turns out to make a big difference11:44
Keybukfbcon is always loaded?11:44
cjwatson(and if it all still works ...)11:44
cjwatsonI think I was concerned about failures before fbcon manages to load11:44
cjwatsonbut, like I say, can perhaps remove that11:44
bdrungpitti: regarding units policy: should g_format_size_for_display() use IEC prefixes then?11:49
pittibdrung: like "KiB"?11:50
pittimight be better, yes11:50
bdrungpitti: yes11:50
pittibut I think we should just fix the individual apps11:50
pittiI added a nautilus task11:50
seb128let's drop this glib change for lucid11:51
seb128we don't know how many apps that impacts on11:51
seb128it's not a change you start a beta time11:51
bdrungpitti: we should write new functions for glib and the glib-maintainer should accept them. then all apps can be ported to use the new ones (otherwise every package needs the conversion function)11:51
pittibdrung: *nod*11:52
pittiseb128: already uploaded, bugs updated, followed up upstream11:52
seb128we should working on fixing bugs now, not on shuffling around everything11:52
seb128pitti, you rock, thanks11:52
* seb128 hugs pitti11:52
pittiseb128: I added a nautilus task instead11:53
pittiwhich is really the most pressing one11:53
pittigvfs/system-monitor etc. don't use that broken function11:53
seb128the function is not broken...11:53
bdrungpitti: btw, your approach make this PPA https://launchpad.net/~bdrung/+archive/base-2 totally unmaintable11:54
seb128I wish we would just stay away to touch that and keep what upstream is doing11:54
pittiseb128: sure it is11:54
pittiseb128: but unless upstream wants to accept this kind-of ABI breakage, there's no way to fix it11:54
seb128pitti, it's not broken, or rather it's broken by design I think11:54
pittibroken by whatever, yes11:55
seb128well, what we have now is consitent with other systems and what users are used to so it's the less confusing user experience imho11:56
seb128it's also the reason why GNOME has not been changing it11:56
bdrungeven people that are aware of IEC prefixes make mistakes: bug 53873211:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538732 in gnome-disk-utility "wrong base-10 prefix KB (correct is kB)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53873211:56
pittiseb128: no, it's so much not consistent11:56
seb128anyway let's not redo this discussion now, I just think we should wait for after the LTS to do such changes11:56
pittiseb128: but at least right now we have known inconsistency11:56
seb128pitti, right, that's what I mean by consistent with other systems11:57
pittiseb128: the reason why GNOME hasn't changed it was that it can be considered an ABI break, not because (most of them) think that it's actually correct11:57
seb128other distros and OSes are inconsistant the same way11:57
bdrungseb128: is this consistent: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40938824/karmic-disk-properties.png11:57
pittiwe'll fix that in nautilus itself11:57
seb128bdrung, yes11:57
seb128bdrung, the volume is make wrong on purpose to match what vendor write on units11:58
pittiseb128: oh come on11:58
seb128anyway lunch time11:58
pittiseb128: enjoy!11:58
pittilunch sounds fine11:58
seb128pitti, thanks11:58
seb128pitti, no "come on", but that's a topic people will never agree on11:58
seb128and that's why I think we should not step in that controverse for the lts11:59
seb128rather delay to next cycle11:59
seb128anyway lunch11:59
pittiseb128: I didn't see anyone so far who argues that "4.0 GB" == "3.7 GB" in that dialog is correct11:59
bdrungthat's why i am glad about the policy11:59
cjwatsonbug 538165 is pretty doom-laden12:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 538165 in nautilus "Lucid reads file size wrong" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53816512:00
cjwatsonand right now I'm not seeing any change there that would actually measurably improve matters12:01
bdrungcjohnston: i added "Wrong labeled devices" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy12:01
cjwatsonfix your tab completeion12:01
pitticjwatson: we could make the html pages also print MB, not MiB?12:02
cjwatsonanyway, "wrong labeled" is a misnomer12:02
cjwatsonjust as it is a reality that hard disks are labelled in decimal units, it is a reality that CDs are labelled in binary units.  complaining that this is wrong is equivalent to stamping your feet and shouting that the universe is broken12:02
directhexthe universe IS broken.12:03
cjwatsonthe thing that is wrong here is that the policy does not account for these situations; reality is what it is12:03
cjwatsonpitti: controlled by apache, can't change it in cdimage12:03
pittiah, right12:03
cjwatsonnot without completely taking over directory listing functionality, anyway, which would be a right pain12:03
persiaJust as a minor note, hard drives aren't actually labeled in sane decimal units: they are labeled in decimal multiples of binary units.12:04
bdrungcjwatson: should i change it to "Misnomers of devices"?12:04
cjwatsonpersia: yes, indeed12:04
cjwatsonbdrung: dict misnomer12:04
cjwatsonI'm saying that "wrong labeled" is a misnomer, not that the devices are misnomers (whatever that might mean)12:04
cjwatsonas in, that section heading is wrong12:04
cjwatson"Device types that this policy fails to account for", perhaps12:05
bdrungcjohnston: so what your proposed heading?12:05
cjwatson*please fix your tab completion"12:05
cjwatson12:05 <cjwatson> "Device types that this policy fails to account for", perhaps12:05
bdrungcjwatson: and something shorter?12:06
cjwatson"Bugs in this policy"12:07
bdrungcjwatson: bugs sounds too hard. you can't create a units policy without "bugs". either DVDs don't match or CDs.12:08
cjwatsonit is a bug.  whether you can fix it is a different matteer.12:08
cjwatsonif you think it's hard, then I think that's you being defensive, TBH12:08
bdrungcjwatson: how can we educate manufacturers to label the devices correct?12:09
cjwatsonwe can't.  HTH12:09
cjwatsonit's much better to live with the fact that this is the way it is than to waste our time in fantasy12:10
bdrungcjwatson: this section is about the devices, which are not labelled correct by the manufacturers. this section should help readers to understand the problems dealing with these devices.12:14
bdrungcjwatson: feel free to improve the wording12:14
cjwatsonwho are we to say that they are incorrect?12:15
persiaJust out of curiosity, how do CD and DVD labelling differ?12:15
cjwatsonlet's live in the real world here, a little bit!12:15
cjwatsonwe are an OSV with a small percentage of the market - if we had >50% we might be able to dictate this sort of thing, but we don't12:16
bdrungcjwatson: we can say that they are abusing the SI standard12:16
cjwatsonand even if it changed, CDs labelled the "old" way would be around for a long time - changing the labelling would probably be worse12:16
cjwatsonbdrung: I'm pretty certain they don't care12:16
persiaConsistency in marketing labeling is to be preserved.12:16
persiaThere is sufficient investment in the ways the numbers are counted that it is very expensive to change, regardless of the motivation.12:17
bdrungcjwatson: do you really think that changing the CD label from 700 MB to 700 MiB would be worse?12:17
cjwatsonI think it's never going to happen, so why should we waste time talking about it?12:17
cjwatsonin reality, it is for us to deal with what's out there, not the other way round12:18
cjwatsonNote that I am not saying this is possible; not all bugs are fixable, and we should acknowledge even those bugs that we can't fix12:19
bdrungcjwatson: agreed12:19
pittiI'd strive for consistency within the system, e. g. in GNOME (to avoid having two different units in the same dialog, etc.)12:19
cjwatsonand in this case we're trading off sets of bugs against each other, and a clear accounting of the bugs flowing from each choice makes it possible to choose between them with a clear head12:19
pittiwe can't ever fix the entire world12:19
bdrungcjwatson: you are free to change the wording of this questioned section12:19
bdrungpitti: for fixing the world, we have to fix #1 first.12:21
cjwatsonbdrung: done12:21
cjwatsonso what about the fact that hard disks are actually measured in decimal multiples of 1024 bytes?12:22
cjwatsonwe rather spectacularly failed to address that in the policy, so we're still going to be off in our measurements, just less so12:22
bdrungcjwatson: thanks12:25
cjwatsonor at least so I understand; wikipedia doesn't back me up here, although persia and I appear to have the same understanding12:26
bdrungcjwatson: hard disks measured in decimal multiples of 1024 bytes? when displaying the size in kB or greater, will there be a difference or is it rounded away?12:27
persiaUnfortunately, all the disks I've bought in the past couple years have been unboxed, so I can't be entirely sure, but I remember reading "One gigabyte is defined as 1,000,000 kilobytes"12:27
bdrungpitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/369525/comments/1712:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 369525 in glib2.0 "Use IEC standard for binary byte units " [Medium,Won't fix]12:27
persiabdrung: There will be a 2.4% error, which may matter for >1TB drives.12:27
cjwatsonwhat he said.12:28
bdrung[    1.145856] sd 2:0:0:0: [sdb] 2930277168 512-byte logical blocks: (1.50 TB/1.36 TiB)12:28
bdrungthat is 1500301910016 bytes = 1.500 TB12:29
bdrungno 2.4% error12:29
cjwatsonof course that doesn't necessarily prove it since -2.4% from that would be 1.465 TB which would round to 1.5, but OK12:30
cjwatsonI don't remember where I picked this up from; it was a while back12:30
bdrungeven the SSD is correct: [    1.145751] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] 125045424 512-byte logical blocks: (64.0 GB/59.6 GiB)12:31
bdrung64023257088 bytes = 64 GB12:31
cjwatsonI have to say, though, after reading the bugs, I agree with various folks who said we should not be doing this for Lucid12:32
cjwatsonIIRC, we only voted for this in the TB on the understanding that we had time to pull it out if it seemed to be causing trouble12:33
peciskIs it right that Lucid will have OpenOffice.org 3.2.0, not 3.2.1?12:33
seb128pecisk, when is 3.2.1 due?12:36
seb128pecisk, when will 3.2.1 be availble rather?12:37
seb128brb, session restart12:37
=== jadakren is now known as airtonix
peciskseb128: sorry, seems like 3.2.1 is still long overdue. Upstream translations deadline is 29th April, but it says nothing that release will follow soon. Sorry to bother :)12:41
peciskseb128: they plan RC1 on 19th April, for a fact12:42
seb128pecisk, that means 3.2.1 will be after lucid12:43
seb128so lucid can't really have it I guess12:43
peciskI see :)12:43
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
primes2hpitti: Hello. apport-collect doesn't allow me to add info to an existing bug report because I'm not the original reporter (in Lucid). Is that a bug or this is the way it works? is there any workaround?13:25
pittiprimes2h: yes, it's supposed to be that way; you should subscribe to the bug if you participate in the discussion13:26
primes2hpitti: it could be a problem if you need to report some info against the linux package.13:27
pittiif you submit information, but aren't available to followup questions, this isn't very useful13:28
primes2hpitti: Some people could have the same problem (same hardware) and the original reporter could not have time (in a particular period) to provide them. Others can save time providing info automatically.13:29
primes2hpitti: They can open a new bug report13:30
primes2hby the way13:30
primes2hbut then they need to mark it as a duplicate13:30
primes2hI mean, to provide info13:30
primes2hs/provide them/provide info13:31
pittiprimes2h: right, but why shouldn't they subscribe to the bug they are providing info for?13:31
pittiapport will warn if you aren't the reporter, and will refuse if you are neither the reporter nor subscribed13:32
primes2hpitti: you mean that if they subscribe to the bug they can provide info via apport-collect?13:32
csurbhiI want to send a patch to the samba mailing list.. should i also include it on some ubuntu list ?13:32
pitti(that's what the error message says, too)13:32
primes2hpitti: ah, ok! I understand. Sorry for misunderstanding ;-)13:32
primes2hpitti: Thank you. :-)13:33
pittinp :)13:33
pittiprimes2h: we originally didn't have that limitation, but that resulted in a lot of bug spam13:33
pittiprimes2h: such as random people dumping info to unrelated bugs, which were evne invalid/duplicates/etc.13:33
pittiso we had to make it a little more strict13:33
primes2hpitti: yes, I agree with this.13:34
primes2hpitti: I mean, with you about this13:36
Riddellcjwatson: you fixed the user permissions issue in kde_ui?13:44
Riddellcjwatson: I was just going to add a conditional to go back to the old code unless it's for UBIQUITY_ONLY13:44
Riddellcjwatson: I got the progressDialog fixed anyway, and another wee bug13:49
RiddellHmm, still the "An attempt to configure apt to install additional packages from the CD failed." issue13:50
cjwatsonRiddell: yes, working on a bit more - kdesudo isn't meeting our needs here and I think a tiny bit of manual xauth passing will be quite sufficient14:03
cjwatsonRiddell: apt> installing from USB stick?14:03
Riddellcjwatson: no CD14:03
cjwatsonRiddell: I think we can leave the permission handling around KApplication alone now; it will be clearer that way14:03
Riddellcjwatson: your fix looks much nicer than my suggested workaround, thanks14:05
cjwatsonI'm going to replace it actually :)14:08
cjwatsonhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/395630/ should fix bug 526456 at the same time14:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 526456 in ubiquity "shutdown does not work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52645614:08
cjwatsonRiddell: can we fix the way the hostname box gets prefilled with "-desktop-desktop-desktop-desktop-desktop"?14:09
cjwatsonactually, I think I see where that bug is ...14:10
cjwatsonhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/395631/ look plausible?14:10
Riddellcjwatson: yes it does14:11
cjwatsonRiddell: is the big progress bar during installation indeterminate for you as well, or did I just break something?14:16
Riddellcjwatson: I just committed the fix for that14:16
cjwatsonah good14:18
smoserKeybuk, you have a minute ? bug 531494.  If you could give me some wild guesses as to where to look, I'd really appreciate it.14:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531494 in upstart "cloud-init job not running in eucalyptus without ramdisk" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53149414:24
Keybuklook for what?14:24
smoserAt this point i really expect that the backlevel of upstart just masked the issue... all other evidence appears to point to timing.14:25
Keybukthere are very strange things in your logs that I cannot explain14:25
smoser"where to look" == where to try to find the source of the problem.14:25
Keybuklike the fact /proc/self/mountinfo has information about /proc that can only come from fstab14:25
smoserKeybuk, oh ? like what?14:25
Keybukand thus something must run "mount /proc"14:25
Keybuk(like that)14:25
smoserok... let me paste you the /etc/fstab just to make sure its sane14:26
Keybukno, you misunderstand me14:26
Keybukthis implies that I do not understand your boot14:26
KeybukUbuntu does not mount /proc that way14:27
KeybukI think you need to do elementary level debugging14:28
Keybukadding echo statements everywhere to a log, with timings14:28
Keybukincluding printfs in C code, etc.14:28
smoserwell, thats /etc/fstab14:28
smoserKeybuk, i really can't think of anything strange about the image at this level (ie, prior to cloud-init running).  other than that, it is just "ubuntu", so I don't know how it could mount /proc in a different way14:29
Keybukit's not just ubuntu - you don't have an initramfs14:29
Keybukbut the logs you've pasted suggest to me that you *do* have an initramfs14:29
Keybukwhich is what confuses me14:29
smoserwhich log ?14:30
Keybukthe mountall debug log14:30
Keybukfilesystems are already mounted in unusual ways14:30
smoserit is possible that i've posted an initramfs log14:30
smosernah http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40094568/console-fail-debug.txt surely doesn't have a ramdisk.14:30
Keybukthough kees is going to kill you for that fstab entry, y'know :p14:30
Keybuklike proper axe-through-brain killing14:31
smoseryou'd see messages from the ramdisk if there was a ramdisk14:31
Keybuksmoser: ok...14:31
Keybukanswer me this14:31
Keybukwhy is there several seconds of log before mountall is started14:31
Keybukduring which scsi devices are loaded14:31
Keybukmd devices are scanned14:31
Keybukif that was just builtins, I'd vaguely expect them to be further up than that ;)14:32
Keybukmight be wrong, obv14:32
cjwatsonhmm, the installer writes out such a fstab line14:33
smoserok... well, that is possible. However, the only way that I can think of that I  would have posted a log that had a ramdisk log is if it was a ramdisk from a different kernel14:33
cjwatsonwhy did we never notice this before?14:33
smoserin which case you'd see ramdisk messages like "can't find /lib/modules-OTHER_UNAME"14:33
Keybukcjwatson: why didn't we notice our installer wrote kernels world-writable? :p14:33
smosercjwatson, that fstab is written by vmbuilder14:34
tseliot1pitti: what happens if I call "dpkg-trigger gmenucache" in gnome?14:34
cjwatsonsmoser: ok, but partman-target does the same thing14:34
smosercjwatson, what is wrong with it so i can fix it?14:34
tseliot1pitti: err, I meant in kde14:34
Keybukcjwatson: OOI, why does the installer put that in fstab?14:34
Keybukignoring the fact it's wrong for the moment14:34
cjwatsonKeybuk: mostly hysterical raisins I expect; although presumably it means that 'mount /proc' works14:35
cjwatson(in a chroot, say)14:35
Keybukcjwatson: but "mount /sys" wouldn't work14:35
Keybukand "mount /dev" wouldn't work14:35
cjwatsongranted on /sys; in a chroot, you'd typically want to bind-mount /dev14:35
Keybuk(I actually have a vague plan to have mount read /lib/init/fstab too fwiw)14:35
KeybukI tend to think you want to bind-mount /proc too ;-)14:35
cjwatsoncan that become an un-vague plan, and then I can get rid of this with a clear conscience? :-)14:35
Keybukbut either way, that fstab entry is wrong14:36
Keybuksecurity hole style wrong14:36
cjwatsonas in nodev,noexec,nosuid presumably14:36
cjwatsonindeed - I'm just changing that now14:36
smoserKeybuk, where do you see "several seconds of log before mountall is started" ?  are you referring to the "QEMU HARDDISK" kernel message line ?14:36
cjwatsonsmoser: ^- you'll want to do the same in vmbuilder - "defaults" -> "nodev,noexec,nosuid" for the /proc line14:37
Keybuksmoser: that stuff, yeah14:37
Keybuksmoser: I'm sorry I'm not of help here14:38
smoserKeybuk, those drivers are absolutely built in... there was another bug that we fixed to get them14:38
Keybukbut I really don't know what's wrong with your system, any more than you do14:38
Keybukand since I don't have access to these systems, and nobody has ever reported this problem with Ubuntu on genuine hardware, I can't replicate it14:38
KeybukI think the most interesting comment is Steve's comment #914:38
smoserKeybuk, i can remedy the first14:38
Keybukin your failed logs, there is no event about sda1 from udev14:38
Keybukthat's why I asked for the udev log from a failed boot14:39
Keybukbut you haven't been able to provide that14:39
smoserif you're truely interested. and "genuine hardware" is kvm guest, so.14:39
Keybuksmoser: I don't have any machine capable of running kvm14:39
smoserKeybuk, well the file isn't there... I presumed not written yet in the failed case.14:39
Keybuksomehow, I have only managed to obtain laptops and desktops without hardware virtualisatio14:39
Keybukback up a sec14:39
Keybuksda1 isn't there?14:39
Keybukconfirm for me again14:40
Keybukoh, right14:40
Keybukso that implies udev didn't start either14:40
qensepitti: Have you seen <https://launchpad.net/gudev-sharp>? I think that's what required for the Halsectomy of Banshee and the other C# apps. Something to watch for lucid+1?14:40
sladenvish: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40957362/light-themes-panel-misalignment.png14:40
smosercjwatson, i'll get that remedied in our builds and get bug opened for vmbuilder to soren14:41
smoserthank you14:41
Keybukinit: udevmonitor main process (81)14:41
Keybuksmoser: ^ udev monitor is running14:41
Keybukso the log must be there14:41
smoserso maybe it wasn't flushed...14:41
Keybuktry /dev/.udev.log14:41
Keybukor whatever that damned filename is ;)14:41
smoseri had to kill the instance then mounted loop back the disk image14:41
pittitseliot1: it shouldn't do anything at all14:41
pittiqense: ah, I didn't; nice14:42
Keybukno, don't kill the instance14:42
Keybukyou need to login to it while failed14:42
smoserKeybuk, there is no way to do that.14:42
smoserat least not that i can think of14:42
Keybukkilling one of your VM instances is like saying you have a bug with the laptop14:42
Keybukbut you binned the laptop14:42
pittiqense: perhaps by that time we'll get gobject-introspection working14:42
tseliot1pitti: so, about bug #522969 , do you think it's a gnome only issue?14:42
Keybukyou have network I assume?14:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 522969 in gnome-menus "doesn't add nvidia-settings to menu after installing" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52296914:42
Keybukor a console to them?14:42
pittitseliot1: yes, it is14:42
smoserKeybuk, except i can start it again in seconds.. (regarding the "like a laptop")14:43
smoserKeybuk, we have serial console read-only14:43
Keybuksmoser: no, you can start a totally different environment14:43
smosernetwork istn' up14:43
Keybukok, so use the serial console then14:43
Keybukput a root shell on it14:43
tseliot1pitti: ok, thanks, I'll just add a "dpkg-trigger gmenucache || true" in the postinst then14:43
pittitseliot1: thanks14:43
smoserKeybuk, well, yeah... its not *so* simple... but i can probably do that.14:43
smosernot so simple because something else (Eucalyptus) starts the instance, and starts it with kvm console going to a file14:44
qensepitti: And gudev-sharp is back to zero. Anyway, it would be a huge improvement considering the reluctance of the GTK# maintainer(s) to publish new features for GAPI, it's all kept in trunk.14:44
vishsladen: ty14:44
Keybukat the point you have a root shell, on an instance, that is not running the job - then grab me14:44
Keybukand we'll debug it14:44
smoserKeybuk, thank you.14:44
smoserthen, there is the race condition... hopefully this wont throw it off.14:45
jcastroKeybuk: that box that had the enter bug has been solid over multiple boots all weekend14:45
Keybukjcastro: solidly replicating the bug? :p14:46
jcastroKeybuk: no, solidly working. :)14:46
KeybukI need to amend that bug title14:46
Keybuksince it actually looks like it happens on the DRM renderer too14:47
smosercjwatson, just to be crystal clear: http://paste.ubuntu.com/395650/ is what is "right" for /proc, right ?14:48
psusiKeybuk: I was thinking... couldn't ureadahead be improved by having it not block everything else until after it finishes reading everything?  i.e. allow the jobs to run in paralell with readahead reading the blocks that the jobs don't need just yet, but will soon?14:51
cjwatsonsmoser: yes14:51
smosercjwatson, second related question... how far back (dapper?) would those options be valid14:51
Keybukpsusi: that's how it behaves on SSD14:51
cjwatsonsmoser: forever, AFAIK14:51
smoserok. thanks.14:51
Keybukpsusi: on HDD, that is the worst, possible, thing you can do14:51
psusiKeybuk: only in so far as IF the other tasks try to access the page before readahead has fetched them yet... if you could somehow ( maybe by using IO priorities ) make sure that the other task blocks when this happens until ureadahead gets around to fetching the page in the order IT chose... it would be a speed up14:53
Keybukpsusi: no14:54
Keybukpsusi: if *any* task tries to access *any* page on the disk, that will incur a seek14:54
Keybukwhich will turn ureadahead's single one-sweep pass across the disk, into a seek-laden nightmare14:54
Keybukand seeks is precisely what ureadahead is trying to avoid14:55
psusiKeybuk: right... so if you could make sure that the kernel does not service any other requests until after ureadahead finishes.... that would prevent the out of order access causing seeks, but still allow the other tasks to execute as much as they can as they can in paralell with ureadahead14:55
Keybukpsusi: that's what ureadahead does14:56
Keybukbut at that point in the boot, all the tasks want the disk14:56
Keybukso you have to wait for readahead14:56
psusihuh?  no?  no other jobs are started until ureadahead finishes14:56
psusithey want a mix of cpu, wait time, and IO.... they can do the cpu and wait time in paralell with ureadahead, it's just the IO becomes a problem if it is allowed to be intermixed with ureadahead doing it14:58
Keybukoh, right, I changed that in Upstart because otherwise you can end up with things running in a different order14:58
Keybukbut seriously14:58
Keybukureadahead is written how *I* know things work14:58
Keybukit wasn't written based on ideas14:58
Keybukit was very very heavily tested and tweaked to give the best performance14:58
Keybukwith extensive use of things like blktrace14:59
Keybukbut since I wrote it, it's based on what I know14:59
Keybukso if you have different ideas, by all means, try them out!14:59
psusithat's why I'm bouncing it off you... ;)14:59
KeybukI'm not a human blktrace14:59
KeybukI can't listen to your idea and tell you whether it's better or not15:00
KeybukI can only tell you why ureadahead is the way it is15:00
Keybukif you think I'm wrong, since you're arguing here, you clearly do15:00
Keybukthen go ahead and actually prove it15:00
Keybukbring a blktrace of the boot with ureadahead how I wrote it15:00
Keybukand a blktrace of the boot with ureadahead how you'd write it15:00
psusito confirm my understanding of how it works right now... the key points being that 1) upstart waits for ureadahead to finish reading before starting other jobs, and 2) it does this because if it didn't, the other jobs would cause out of order IO, right?15:00
Keybukpsusi: no15:00
Keybukpsusi: it does this because if it didn't, fsck might happen first, and that can rearrange the disk about a bit on some filesystems15:01
Keybukthe upstart ordering is unrelated to "blocking on ureadahead" is that makes sense15:01
Keybukureadahead on HDD already has CPU and I/O priorties set15:01
psusiohh... so ureadahead runs before fsck, while the filesystem is still mounted ro?15:02
Keybukyeeeees ;)15:02
psusiso fsck has to wait for ureadahead to finish, and everything else waits on fsck...15:02
Keybukyeeeeees ;)15:03
psusiwhat if you did readahead in two passes?  first pass gets everything needed up to the fsck, then once fsck finishes, start another ureadahead pass to fetch everything else, while the rest of the jobs start up in paralell?15:03
Keybuktried it15:04
psusibecause the other jobs running in parallel get their IO intermixed with udreadahead, causing out of order reads?15:04
Keybukbecause then you're doing two slow passes across the slow disk15:04
psusithen why?15:04
Keybukinstead of one slow pass across the slow disk15:05
Keybukif pass-across-the-disk costs (say) 7s15:05
Keybukdoing two doesn't mean you get two of 3.5s15:05
Keybukit means you have two of 7s15:05
pittigeser: I'll commit your recent cdbs upload to bzr15:05
Keybukwell, in reality, they get a bit faster because you have more read than seek15:05
psusieh?  should be more like first pass is 1 second, and second pass is 615:05
Keybukpsusi: why?15:05
Keybukpsusi: have you ever tried any of this stuff?15:06
psusibecause first pass needs to only read the blocks needed by fsck and things before it, which should be a relatively small amount, and the second pass only needs to read blocks needed by what comes after15:06
psusino ;)15:06
Keybukthe first pass still needs to seek over the disk15:06
Keybukstill needs to seek between the blocks15:06
Keybukstill needs to read the blocks15:06
Keybukstill needs to open files15:06
Keybukpassing over a rotational hard drive is not free15:06
psusiof course... since the files aren't stored on the disk in optimal order, it ends up having to go all over the disk looking for the first pass blocks, skipping over blocks the second pass needs anyhow in the process15:07
psusiif we were to pack the files in order though ;)15:07
Keybukin fact, if you wanted to do the most useful thing you could, it would be to write an online defrag for ext3 & ext4 that could accept ureadahead pack files as input, and refrig the pack file after the defrag15:08
tseliot1pitti: two more things: 1) I need to call that dpkg-trigger in the postrm too; 2) I should do the same in nvidia-common in the alternatives library so that the trigger is called when we switch between drivers too15:09
psusionline would be nice... but offline is workable, especially if you were to build it into an alternate initrd, you could have a grub menu choice to optimize the system15:09
pittitseliot1: ok, understood15:09
tseliot1pitti: I'll work on it15:10
ionEven nicer would be something that keeps track of *all* usage patterns (without hogging too much resources just for the statistics) and keeps reordering blocks in the background using spare IO time. :-)15:11
psusiKeybuk: so ureadahead already uses io priority to make sure that IF another job does try to use a page that hasn't been read yet, it will block until ureadahead gets around to it in the correct order?15:12
Keybukit's like IO_PRIO_IVANOVA or something15:13
psusicool... then I need to try packing the files and splitting the ureadahead into two stages15:14
cjwatsonasac: are you going to upload your patch in bug 527720, or are you waiting for review?15:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 527720 in klibc "thumb2 porting issues identified: klibc uses mov.*pc" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52772015:16
=== cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Beta Freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-karmic | #ubuntu-app-devel for application development on Ubuntu | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
cjwatson(I think the libplymouth2/mountall difficulty is sufficiently far in the past now)15:17
Keybukuntil the next time15:17
Keybukso, right15:19
Keybukdoes that mean that they're using Upstart now?15:19
Keybukand does that mean that Arjan van der Van has died, so they could do that over his dead body?15:19
cjwatsonwhat's he got against upstart?15:20
directhexpalm pre uses upstart. it's upstarty!15:20
Keybukcjwatson: I'm not sure if it's anything other than "we wrote it"15:20
Keybukhe doesn't like ureadahead either15:20
Keybukas far as we know, Arjan was one of the main instigators of that whole Copyright Assignment flamewar - basically over Upstart15:21
=== jamie is now known as Guest51323
james_wmvo: do you know if anyone is looking in to the aptitude crash?15:31
mvojames_w: I can do this today, I know what is causing it15:31
dpmhey bryceh, I'm trying to set the right project for a bug someone mistakenly filed against the 'ubuntu-translations' project. Is there an upstream project associated with the 'x11-utils' in LP?15:31
james_wmvo: would you like me to fix it? (If it's quicker for you to point me towards the issue than fix it yourself)15:33
james_wit will be easier to fix it than to workaround it so that I can do local testbuilds in a clean chroot15:33
mvojames_w: my "fix" is to revert the 13_screensize patch that is causing it and instead just increase the static buffer15:34
mvojames_w: if you want to look into it, that is welcome of course, I'm pretty sure its a bug in the screensize patch15:34
Keybukheh, that's the first article I've read on Jane taking over that references the fact she used to sell nuclear weapons15:35
james_wmvo: that's what I assumed, but the reports didn't pour in until after a couple of weeks with the new patch15:35
mvojames_w: hmmm15:35
james_wno, sorry, the bug report *predates* the latest upload15:36
mvojames_w: can you reproduce it?15:37
mvook, cool. then you can have it :)15:37
james_wif LP wasn't timing out on the older uploads I would see if they could have affected it too15:38
james_wdamn :-(15:38
james_wshould be trivial to reproduce15:38
james_w"aptitude changelog aptitude" should do it15:38
james_wand now it works...15:40
mvoworks for me too15:41
mvo(both i386 and amd64)15:41
=== sconklin1 is now known as sconklin
_UsUrPeR_Hey all. I'm using apt-mirror to create a local repository on an internal server at my office network. It's become a consensus that we no longer need to have a local mirror of the 8.04 LTS in the office, but I can't figure out how to remove all the old hardy packages. Does anybody know of a good way to purge all hardy packages from my server?15:42
_UsUrPeR_We've also got a local repo of both 9.10 and 10.04 Alpha, so just deleting the repository directory would require a re-download of ~80 gigs15:43
mvojames_w: a double dl_complete (cmdline_progress.cc) maybe? delete acqprogress; run twice15:43
mvojames_w: I wonder if its something with sigc++ that causes the completed signal to be run twice15:44
james_wmvo: yeah, I can't reproduce anymore. I'll come back to it if I can15:51
* Keybuk hugs cjwatson for converting ssh to Upstart15:53
Keybukpitti: I think I just figured out the VT switch bug16:01
=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
Keybukone cause of it, anyway :p16:04
Keybukif rc 2 finishes before gdm ...16:05
Keybuknot sure why that would stop X from flipping it back though16:05
preseedhello i d like to make a full automated install using preseed file but i get a " Syntax error : unable to determine template name "  in /var/lib/preseed/log   i do not find the documentation about it16:11
KeybukMar 15 16:18:53 ratchet init: rc state changed from post-stop to waiting16:23
KeybukMar 15 16:18:53 ratchet init: Handling stopped event16:23
KeybukMar 15 16:18:53 ratchet init: plymouth goal changed from start to stop16:23
Keybukyou didn't boot *that* fast16:23
=== beuno is now known as beuno-lunch
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|errand
Keybukpitti: yup, I am a prize numpty16:36
pittiKeybuk: you figured it out? rocking!16:36
* Keybuk decides to blame the server team16:36
Keybukgdm deactivates plymouth when it's about to start X16:36
Keybukleaving it in an inactive state16:36
Keybukthen when X is running, gdm tells plymouth to quit16:36
Keybukeither saying everything was ok (leave the fb alone - X is on it) - or X failed (switch back to vt1, reset console, etc.)16:37
Keybukfor the server people, when rc2 finishes, we run plymouth quit16:37
Keybukwhich happens to be the exact command that gdm runs to tell plymouth that X failed to start16:37
pittiah, haha16:37
geserpitti: Thanks. Is there a real difference between lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/cdbs/ubuntu and lp:ubuntu/cdbs?16:38
pittigeser: the second is an auto-import without real history16:38
Keybukthe on_quit code is clearly wrong anyway16:38
pittiwe don't use the auto-imports for branches where we have history already (i. e. existing Vcs-Bzr:)16:38
Keybuksince it checks the wrong variable16:39
Keybukbut this is a niiice race16:39
pittiKeybuk: so, what we roughly want is the end of rc2 not calling that if we either have gdm started, or will start it eventually (with the latter being pretty fuzzy in upstart terms, I figure)16:41
Keybukright, or something16:42
Keybukeither rc2 should do plymouth quit --unless-deactivated16:42
Keybukor gdm should be doing plymouth quit --i-am-x16:42
pitti^ but if gdm is very slow, this would still go back to vt1?16:43
pitti(i. e. if it didn't get to deactivate before rc2 finishes)16:43
Keybukbut that's ok at least16:43
Keybukyou'd get a black screen before X of course16:43
Keybukbut X would flip VT back again16:43
pittia "login:" screen, anyway, but yes, it would at least be "more" correct16:43
* Keybuk shakes his fist at ubuntu-server16:44
Keybukat least we can tell people how to fix that -> "echo sleep 60 >> /etc/rc.local" :p16:44
pittieasy, just put gdm into rc2.d *cough* *duck*16:44
Keybukthat doesn't help in this case16:45
Keybukgdm is in the background once the gdm multiplexer is running16:45
Keybukthe X server inits in the background16:45
Keybukalways did16:45
Keybukthe race is against X finishing init, not gdm starting16:45
pittiKeybuk: I thought gdm would do a plymouth --deactivate thing first?16:45
Keybukit does16:46
Keybukthat changes the meaning of any following "plymouth quit"16:46
Keybukthe trouble is the "plymouth quit" didn't come from gdm ;)16:46
Keybukit came from rc2 ending16:46
Keybukso need to disambiguate that16:46
Keybukthe only thing left then would be rc2 ending before gdm even started16:47
Keybukwhich would be "safe" just fugly16:47
dmartWow, you're talking about the precise issue I was just trying to debug16:54
Keybukdmart: the "login:" thing?16:55
dmartWell, Xorg running on vt1 (at the same time as getty)16:55
KeybukXorg shouldn't ever be running on vt116:55
Keybukare you still seeing that?16:55
dmartIt looks like there is a race problem with the way Xorg magically chooses a vt--- but writing a wrapper script, it looks like getty has not launched yet when Xorg starts up16:56
Keybukthe first X server does not chose a VT16:56
dmartHow not?16:56
Keybukit is hardcoded to use VT716:56
dmartWell, it uses tty116:56
Keybuksee debian/patches/05_initial_server_on_vt7.patch16:56
dmartHmmm, when did this patch go in?16:56
Keybukdmart: mid-karmic development16:56
Keybukdmart: you're still seeing an issue with today's lucid daily?16:57
dmartI'm using a filesystem from a ~ 2 week old daily-live.  I'll try updating xorg and see if the problem persists16:57
Keybukyou need to update plymouth, mountall and gdm16:57
dmartOK, I'll try that16:58
Keybukpitti: thinking about it harder, I definitely think that it's gdm's commands that have to change16:58
Keybuksince once deactivated, nothing else must quit plymouth16:58
KeybukX has taken over that VT16:59
Keybukso gdm should call something else (or with different flags)16:59
Keybukand the ordinary quit command should *fail* with a distinct error code16:59
Keybukthe upstart pre-stop script should catch that error code, and abort stopping plymouth16:59
* Keybuk can think of a race there too17:00
Keybukif plymouth is stopped by rc2 ending17:00
Keybukthen gdm tells it to quit17:00
Keybukthe pre-stop runs quit, gets told not to17:01
Keybukso runs "start" to change the state17:01
Keybukbut the "plymouth exiting due to SIGTERM" is still there17:01
KeybukI don't know what will happen in that case17:01
brycehdpm, xorg-server works as upstream for most x11-* stuff17:03
Keybukthis could even trigger an Upstart bug17:03
dpmok, thanks bryceh17:03
* Keybuk cries17:07
=== beuno-lunch is now known as beuno
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
Keybuk...and files bug #53917517:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 539175 in upstart "init: cancelling pre-stop using "start" will cause ignoring of exited process during pre-stop invocation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53917517:09
brycehpitti, is there a way to expand apport blobs after the fact?  E.g. bug 53906917:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 539069 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i945GM] X hangs with black screen on login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53906917:11
keesKeybuk: I worry when people invoke my name to strike fear into the hearts of unbelievers.  :)  what's the fstab issue?  It didn't jump out at me in the scrollback17:18
Keybukkees: default fstab written by the installer has "defaults" for mount options17:18
Keybukrather than noexec,nosuid,nodev17:18
keesKeybuk: I imagine some filesystems need suid and exec though?17:20
=== amitk is now known as amitk-afk
Keybukkees: sorry for /proc mount options17:20
keesoh, hrm.  shouldn't we fix that for debug, security, and /var/run too?17:21
=== apachelogger is now known as releaselogger
kees(better yet, make "defaults" be noexec,nosuid,nodev heh, which would break _nobody_ I'm sure...)17:22
Keybuk/var/run is nosuid already17:22
KeybukI think it has to have exec and dev for the various nefarious purposes it's used for17:22
Keybuklikewise I vaguely remember it being true for debug too17:23
Keybuksecurity - no idea17:23
keesdebug requires _exec_?  that's odd.17:23
Keybukkees: something to do with mmap17:23
keesand does it carry device nodes?17:23
keesKeybuk: mmap should only require exec if something is very wrong.  (i.e. READ_IMPLIES_EXEC personality)17:24
Keybukthese are as you specified them ;)17:24
mneptokkees: wait, you *don't* like your name invoked to strike fear? does that mean you don't want me carrying my "KEES COOK KNOWS YOUR IP ADDRESS" placard outside Apple Stores?17:26
Keybukkees: we went though the mounted filesystem list ages ago at a millbank sprint17:26
keesmneptok: well, it's a form of putting words in my mouth.17:26
Keybukand you indicated what mount options should be17:26
keesKeybuk: ah, fair enough.  generally "as strict as possible" is my answer.  :)17:27
Keybuknone            /sys/fs/fuse/connections  fusectl         optional                          0 017:27
Keybuknone            /sys/kernel/debug         debugfs         optional                          0 017:27
Keybuknone            /sys/kernel/security      securityfs      optional                          0 017:27
Keybukthose may be simply that you didn't know17:27
Keybukor maybe they post-date that conversation17:27
KeybukI don't think we should mount /sys/kernel/security at all17:27
Keybukit's clearly wrong17:27
keesbut noexec on /proc makes sense to avoid re-exec of /proc/$pid/exe17:27
keesthey post-date that conversation17:27
Keybukkees: right, I remember that and */fd being the obvious holes17:28
keesmakes AA and SELinux harder to use.  ;)17:28
Keybukkees: FEATURE17:28
pittibryceh: hm, expand to the bug doesn't currently work; but you can use apport-unpack on the .crash file to get the files locally17:28
keescjwatson: so it's partman that needs adjusting for this?  perhaps have a blanet test for anything with a leading /sys/ in the path to get the same defaults as /sys/ itself?17:29
Keybukkees: add them to the list to fix post-lucid17:29
Keybukkees: partman only writes something for /proc17:29
brycehpitti, is there a bug against apport wishlisting this feature?  I run into needing it from time to time17:29
cjwatsonkees: what Keybuk said, and I've already uploaded a fix17:29
* kees goes to figure out how security is mounted these days...17:30
brycehpitti, e.g. people behind firewalls17:30
keesprobably my bug17:30
Keybukkees: mountall17:30
dmartKeybuk: I upgraded upstart, mountall, plymouth, libplymouth2, xserver-xorg-core, but I still get my X-on-tty1 problem.  Did I miss something?17:30
Keybukkees: so as above17:30
Keybukdmart: I have no idea then17:30
pittibryceh: you can also file it as a _new_ bug with apport-bug /path/to/file.carsh17:30
keesKeybuk: ah, you meant that for mountall.  I failed to see context, sorry.17:30
brycehpitti, related question, is it possible to file a bug with apport when X is not working at all?  (e.g. entirely from command line)17:30
Keybukkees: those are from /lib/init/fstab17:30
keesKeybuk: not something to fix for lucid, post-beta?17:30
dmartKeybuk: I'll do a dist-upgrade, maybe some other packages are out of date and causing a problem.  I'll get back to you if that still doesn't fix it.17:30
cjwatsondmart: it would be generally sane to upgrade everything just to make sure - we're pretty close to beta-1 and the current state is probably more stable than the random thing you had17:30
Keybukkees: futzing around with kernel filesystem mount options this late in an LTS cycle strikes me as dangerous17:30
brycehpitti, ok17:31
pittibryceh: uploading a .crash file to an existing bug already has a bug, let me find it17:31
keesKeybuk: well, it would break very obviously, if we got it wrong, yes?17:31
Keybukkees: not necessarily17:31
dmartcjwatson: doubtless :)  The archive was temporarily broken when I built this system, so I fell back on an older daily-live17:31
Keybukwe could break vmware or something17:31
keesokay, fair enough.17:31
Sarvattdmart: did you remove splash from the kernel command line and forget to put it back?17:31
pittibryceh: bug 50688517:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 506885 in apport "Allow user to upload a crash file to a certain bug" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50688517:31
keesI cannot think of anything immediately under user-control in security17:32
brycehpitti, great thanks17:32
ScottKkees: Could you have a look at qt4-x11 on ia64.  It failed again and I wonder if it's related to your stack protector change.17:32
pittibryceh: yes, with apport-bug --save /tmp/foo.apport, move that to a different machine, and apport-bug downloads/foo.apport17:32
keessame for fuse17:32
keesScottK: shouldn't be -- stack protector isn't enabled on ia64, I don't think.17:34
ScottKkees: OK.17:35
ScottKdoko: ^^^ any other ideas?17:35
dokoScottK: enoclue ... maybe retry on another buildd?17:36
dokolamont: ^^^17:36
keescc1plus: error: .pch/release-shared/QtCore: No such file or directory17:37
keesespecially since this didn't fail:  g++ -g -Os -I/usr/include/freetype2 -pthread -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -O2 -Os -fvisibility=hidden -fvisibility-inlines-hidden -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -fPIC -DQT_SHARED -DQT_BUILD_CORE_LIB -DQT_NO_USING_NAMESPACE -DQT_NO_CAST_TO_ASCII -DQT_ASCII_CAST_WARNINGS -DQT3_SUPPORT -DQT_MOC_COMPAT -DELF_INTERPRETER=\"/lib/ld-linux-ia64.so.2\" -DHB_EXPORT=Q_CORE_EXPORT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -D_LARGEFILE64_S17:38
dokomy local build using the uploaded package is still building. let's see if it fails17:38
kees(who is running qt on ia64?)17:39
\shkees: are you working on a (semi) automatic way to include the canonical partner repository during upgrade when using sun java6 packages from formerly multiverse? or at least a way to inform the user?17:39
dmartSarvatt: splash is not on my command line at all: I'm bringing up on a new platform.  I'd be concerned if having no splash screen is not supported... ?17:42
kees\sh: I haven't been, no.  I imagine update-manager will prompt to remove it, which is the upgrade path I'm happiest with.  ;)17:43
cjwatsonslangasek: bug 539182 - seems like your casper fix didn't entirely take?17:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 539182 in casper "Lucid Live CD fails to reboot after ejecting + enter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53918217:44
\shkees: well, people won't be amused about that ;)17:44
\shkees: especially server people won't be amused, when sun-java6 is gone during dist-upgrade and having tomcat6 ;) (hint on security manager)17:46
cjwatson\sh: what server people upgrade without reviewing the list of packages to be removed?17:48
cjwatsonand can I make sure none of them ever manage any servers I care about?17:48
cjwatsonthis seems fairly basic diligence :)17:49
\shcjwatson: no...but as it seems there is no way to "remind" admins, that "this package moved from multiverse to whereever"17:50
cjwatsonI guess that's what release notes are for17:50
ScottK\sh: It's been removed from Ubuntu.  If they want it, they can figure out what repo to enable.17:50
\shcjwatson: +1 BUT when I upgraded to lucid, apt-get didn't tell me: "Dude, listen, this package will be removed, you sure you want it?"17:56
\shScottK: I could agree, when there is an alternative, but regarding the special "tomcat6 + openjdk == no security manager, because it's not opensourced by sun, now known as oracle"...ok, I can agree multiverse is not the section where we push security updates regulary,17:58
ScottKIIRC open security issues and no patches were a big part of why it got removed.17:59
\shbut right now, regarding our LTS it would be really cool to "shout out loud that this package moved from multiverse to the partner repository".17:59
cjwatsonthat would be a pretty major new feature in apt-get17:59
cjwatsonwhich has historically been something left to higher-level frontends17:59
cjwatsonbetter just put it in the release notes, I think17:59
kees\sh: can you write something up for the release notes?18:01
\shcjwatson: regarding our idea to push "puppet" as default server configuration management, I don't think it will execute "do-release-upgrade" but apt-get or aptitude only...but that's really not the point18:01
cjwatsonI'm sorry but server admins can surely read release notes18:01
cjwatsonI have more sympathy for desktop cases18:01
\shkees: sure...pointer to the release note sandbox on w.u.c.?18:02
ScottK\sh: File a bug against ubuntu-release-notes and attach the text.18:02
ScottK(or just put it in the bug, it doesn't need to be an attachment)18:02
\shkees: ScottK: bug #539199 eventually someone who writes native english can fix errors in the text or make it more "bling bling"18:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 539199 in ubuntu-release-notes "[Lucid Lynx] Release notes should mentioned removal of sun-java6-* packages and where it is now located" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53919918:15
=== MacSlow|errand is now known as MacSlow
zygamvo: hello18:17
zygamvo: I noticed you have cherry picked bzip2 fix from trunk, I wonder what is the point of having freeze exception for .41 then18:18
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
mvozyga: I leave that to you, I needed to do the upload for the scan.data update18:19
mvozyga: if you think we should postpone 2.41 that is fine with me18:19
mvozyga: I'm also fine with sponsoring the freeze exception, it contains some nice fixes/additions. either is ok with18:19
zygawell actually I'd like one thing from you: could you have a look at my bug for the exception and tell me what's missing?18:19
zygaI read the whole procedure18:20
zygabut it's a little hazy to me, I think the testing/packaging changes are missing but I'm not sure how to describe that18:20
mvozyga: I'm about to leave for the evening, I can mail you tomorrow morning about it, ok?18:21
zygasure, thanks mvo!18:22
AquinaHey guys! Does someone know how to change a launchpad account password? Is that damn function implemented?18:22
ScottKAquina: Ask in #launchpad18:23
mvothanks zyga18:26
=== NCommander is now known as Guest5889
RoAkSoAxcjohnston, i have a few doubts with dh-apport. If the source packages is called net-snmp and I have the apport hook in debian/net-snmp.apport, it should install the hook in the first binary packages listed in debian/control, correct?18:50
RoAkSoAxcjwatson, i have a few doubts with dh-apport. If the source packages is called net-snmp and I have the apport hook in debian/net-snmp.apport, it should install the hook in the first binary packages listed in debian/control, correct?18:51
RoAkSoAxcjohnston, sry wrong person :)18:51
kirklandpitti: howdy, around?19:01
kirklandpitti: i noticed some strange desktop behavior in testdrive ...19:01
kirklandpitti: using the same today's desktop amd64 ISO, in KVM there is no bottom panel in the desktop; while in VirtualBox there is ...19:02
kirklandpitti: do you have any immediate explanation for the strange difference?  or should I start looking into a bug in qemu-kvm ?19:02
kirklandpitti: oh, actually, looks like it has to do with resolution ...19:03
kirklandpitti: if i use the default resolution (1024x768) in KVM, no bottom panel;  if I lower (to 800x600), it shows back up19:04
kirklandbryceh: do you know anything about that ^ maybe?19:04
brycehkirkland, nope19:04
kirklandbryceh: let me check one more thing ...19:05
kirklandbryceh: pitti: false alarm, i'm a dope ... it's fine, just off my viewable area19:05
kirklandalt-mouse FTW19:06
=== NCommand1r is now known as NCommander
FlyingSpaghettiSHow now brown cow. I'm here to submit my job application! As(potentially) the new leader of your GUI design team, I'm sure I could come to an awesome and inspired revelation of proper element configuration for the new ubuntu. With absolutely no experience in any IT fields(or any other fields), my newly minted internship(with you of course) will pave the way to my worthless associates degree.19:25
jjardonHello, I wonder if firefox-gnome-support package could be compiled with Gio support instead GnomeVFS19:26
jjardonSeems that all GNOME support libraries are optional: https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/69cb1df1cb0f/toolkit/system/gnome/nsGnomeModule.cpp19:27
zygaI'm trying to boot current amd64 live cd on a system with gtx295 graphics card19:38
zygaduring normal boot the process seems to hang19:38
zygaand the display shows some mess (black/white blocks + random pixels)19:38
zygais there a way to trigger no-fancy-graphics during boot to see what's going on?19:39
zygathere was a 'safe graphics' mode in karmic, I wonder if something similar is available for lucid too19:39
zygahmm, I booted with noslash vga=771 and despite the fact that there was some corruption lucid booted correctly19:43
zyganow I have x11 with native panel resolution, good!19:44
cr3hm, .disk/info for 20100315 is "Alpha" for alternate and "Beta" for desktop. not something I expected20:02
cr3I was expeting the date (20100315) and the official ("Alpha" or "Beta" in this case) where attributes of the build rather than attributes of the particular disk image20:04
cr3s/where/to be/20:04
cjwatsoncr3: alternate and desktop are two separate builds that often happen to share a build number20:09
cjwatsonso I imagine what happened is that the code was switched over to say Beta between those two daily builds20:10
micahgcjwatson: would I be able to get a release team ack on a TB3 update for Beta 1?20:12
cr3cjwatson: I thought the images where just different germinate configurations20:13
cjwatsoncr3: it's a bit more complicated than that20:14
cjwatsonmicahg: I'm on the phone right now, but what20:14
cjwatson's the bug number?20:14
micahgbug 53040520:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 530405 in thunderbird "Please update TB to version 3.0.3 in Lucid." [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53040520:15
cjwatsoncr3: the relevant bit is that they're run at different times of day, though :)20:17
_UsUrPeR_cjwatson: About preseed: I would like to make an install without a network interface, but I can't seem to find and netcfg20:34
_UsUrPeR_err whoops20:34
_UsUrPeR_to finish: but I can't seem to find any netcfg/disable function to stop the scary red screen from appearing20:35
_UsUrPeR_the screen says "no network interface detected"20:35
_UsUrPeR_any ideas?20:35
cjwatson_UsUrPeR_: errors are not in general preseedable; what you need to do is arrange for the installer not to take the path where it encounters an error.  Unfortunately I'm not sure that that's sanely possible in this case (a bug).  I think you might need to rebuild the initrd and stub out netcfg to make it work, I'm afraid20:42
_UsUrPeR_cjwatson: ok, thanks. I appreciate you checking in to this for me. It's unfortunate that there's no fix for this, but at least I can save myself some time by quitting while I'm ahead.20:44
cjwatsonmicahg: I'm OK with the update for lucid; thunderbird is a substantial package that takes a while to build, though, and I think we might be better off arranging for this to be available right after beta-1, rather than taking up a big chunk of buildd time with it in the lead-up to beta-1?20:45
cjwatson(I realise that it's a security update, but it *is* lucid and there's precedent for holding those off during freezes)20:45
micahgcjwatson: well, my only concern is it being seeded on xubuntu CD with the old version20:45
cjwatsonbeta-1 isn't something that people can sanely install and just leave there anyway; they'll have to continue upgrading20:46
cjwatsonI don't know, I'm just concerned about the 4.5 hour build time on armel20:46
micahgamel is empty now :)20:46
cjwatsonslangasek, what do you think?20:47
micahgcjwatson: I'd also like to get a new version of Firefox and Ubufox in if possible20:48
slangasekcjwatson: looks like we have some idle armel builders right now; I think we can take it in20:48
slangasekeh, firefox+thunderbird+ubufox?  now I think we're pushing it20:48
micahgslangasek: next version of Firefox was tagged today which should be the version for release20:49
micahgslangasek: and ubufox because report a bug in firefox is broke20:49
slangasekubufox is cheap to build, that's reasonable to take20:50
micahgk, Firefox can wait as it's not technically released yet20:50
slangasekfirefox is not so cheap, and hits all images, including the armel ones; I don't want to delay image mastering for that20:51
micahgslangasek: k, I'll have it ready for upload Friday then :)20:51
micahgslangasek: but thunderbird's ok?20:51
slangasekmicahg: if you upload it in the next few hours, yes20:52
micahgslangasek: k, I'll get chrisccoulson_ to do it as soon as he gets back :)20:52
micahgslangasek: do I need a bug for you to release ack for ubufox?20:54
slangasekmicahg: if Feature Freeze is involved, yes20:54
slangasekif it doesn't need an FFe, just upload20:54
micahgslangasek: k, it's just bug fixes20:55
Sarvattdmart: if you dont have splash on the command line it starts X on VT121:01
micahgdoes adding ellipses to comply with HIG need an FFe?21:02
lifelesswhen is string freeze?21:02
micahglifeless: Doc string freeze is next thursday21:02
RainCTlifeless: .. and application string freeze was two weeks ago (part of UserInterfaceFreeze)21:03
micahgRainCT: it's my Q if adding ellipses for HIG compliance requires an FFe21:04
=== releaselogger is now known as mathlogger
micahgslangasek: can I ask you about the ellipses HIG compliance issue whether it needs an FFe?21:13
RainCTmicahg: I can't answer that question, but maybe you could update the existing translations to add the ellipses there (so that the translators don't need to do that themselves).21:15
micahgRainCT: they already are in the bzr branch :)21:16
slangasekmicahg: sorry, I don't know what that is - context?21:16
micahgslangasek: Report a Problem in Firefox doesn't comply with HIG since it doesn't have elipses and it requires further action21:17
ScottKmicahg: Generally ANY U/I changes at this point need to be coordinated through the doc team (U/I freeze exception).21:17
micahgso there's a fix committed to ubufox trunk21:17
ScottKThe point being to make sure that the docs match what we release.21:17
micahgk, so it's easier if I don't pull that in at the moment21:17
ScottKSo I don't think HIG or not makes a difference.21:17
micahgScottK: k, thanks...maybe I'll skip it for now21:18
slangasekright, HIG wouldn't get a free pass on FF21:19
ScottKUnits policy doesn't either (just saying)21:21
RoAkSoAxcjwatson, I have a few doubts with dh-apport. If the source package is called 'net-snmp' and I have the apport hook in debian/net-snmp.apport, it should install the hook in the first binary package listed in debian/control, correct?21:39
keeslool, persia: so, after I do mk-sbuild --arch armel .... what's the right way to start an instance of armel qemu?21:42
keesogra too :)  or anyone else that does this...21:42
slangasekzul: I've reverted several changes you made to the server-ship seed, you can only seed binary package names and there were several source-only package names that had been seeded (paste, pastescript, pastebin)21:46
slangasekzul: incidentally, why are these seeded in server-ship, instead of just in one of the 'supported' seeds?  Is there a task that will install them off of the CD?  If not, there's not much advantage to shipping them /on/ the CD21:50
keespopey: did you ever make parts 2 and 3 of the screencasting screencast?21:54
cjwatsonRoAkSoAx: debian/net-snmp.apport specifically applies to the net-snmp binary package.  If you want to use the first binary package, just call it debian/apport22:04
cjwatsonRoAkSoAx: this is just standard behaviour for debhelper configuration files - it's not specific to dh_apport22:04
keesasac (and micahg): you mentioned you had to do something funny to remember the firefox "middlemouse.contentLoadUrl" config setting.  is that still in -3.6?  it seems to get repeatedly triggered now that I'm using the "rm compatibility.ini" workaround for loading Greasemonkey.22:25
micahgkees: idr, but I think I have a fix for the greasemonkey issue22:26
micahgkees: are you running the daily from teh PPA?22:26
keesmicahg: I'm not, no, since it doesn't have the missing font patch.22:27
micahgkees: k, well, as soon as I have approval for the patch, I'll drop it in the dailies and probably upload friday22:27
micahgfor the addons22:28
keesmicahg: can you put the font patch in too?  :)22:28
micahgkees: which one, the hinting or LCD?22:28
keesmicahg: which ever makes my eyes bleed with out it.  LCD, I think.22:29
keesthe one I reported and mdeslaur fixed22:29
micahgkees: that one I have to see why cairo won't take it22:29
keesmicahg: right, but in the meantime, let's get it into firefox.  :)22:29
micahgkees: can't...22:29
* kees goes back to avoiding discussion of this regression. :)22:30
RoAkSoAxcjwatson, oh ok, because in the dh_apport manpage says this: debian/source.apport Installed into /usr/share/apport/package-hooks/source_src.py (where src is the current source package name) in the package build directory of the first package dh_apport is told to act on.22:34
cjwatsonthat's literally "source.apport"22:34
cjwatson"source" isn't a substitution - if it were, it would be underlined like "package" is in "debian/package.apport" :-)22:35
RoAkSoAxyeah that's why I thought using 'net-snmp.apport' would install as source_net-snmp.py22:35
cjwatsonno, use source.apport for that22:35
cjwatsonif you do that, the apport hook applies to all binary packages from that source22:35
RoAkSoAxcjwatson, oh ok awesome :) thanks22:36
mdzI'm having a problem with the netbook daily where the initramfs fails to find the live filesystem22:37
mdzis this a known issue?22:37
cjwatsonnot one I've seen22:38
mdzcjwatson, oh hi22:38
mdzthe usb stick looks sane enough to me, and I can mount it from the initramfs with no problem22:38
mdzAFAICT all it does is look for /casper/*.squashfs and that is definitely there22:38
cjwatsonI haven't been testing with USB sticks or with the netbook daily (though I don't think the latter should matter much)22:39
cjwatsondoes anything in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingCasper help?22:39
cjwatsonit at least has a couple of runes for cranking up debugging22:39
mdzcjwatson, didn't know about that, i'll have a look22:39
mdzcjwatson, it's failing the UUID Check22:42
mdz+ cat /conf/uuid.conf22:43
mdz+ uuid=ab72326c-1f54-4d17-b5c0-fd1698c95d2722:43
mdz+ [ -e /cdrom/.disk/casper-uuid-generic ]22:43
mdz+ cat /cdrom/.disk/casper-uuid-generic22:43
mdz+ try_uuid=22:43
mdz+ [ ab72326c-1f54-4d17-b5c0-fd1698c95d27 =  ]22:43
mdz+ return 122:43
cjwatsonI wonder if usb-creator is failing to copy that?22:43
cjwatsonodd that we wouldn't have noticed before now22:44
cjwatsonwas that file present in the source iso?22:44
mdzcjwatson, looking into it22:44
mdzthe files are there, but 0 bytes22:44
mdzcjwatson, argh, md5sum -c shows checksum failures22:44
mdzlooks like the stick is to blame22:45
mdzI thought these things would be more reliable than CD-Rs...22:45
cjwatsonif you ever find a reliable medium, let me know22:45
cjwatsonI guess the ASR motto applies22:45
cjwatsonI do believe my grub2 change worked first time22:48
* cjwatson can die happy now22:48
lifelesscjwatson: btrfs support22:49
cjwatsonI'm not that clever22:50
mdzcjwatson, I've been noticing the device mounted while usb-creator is working with it; I wonder if that's related22:50
=== mathlogger is now known as petvillelogger
loolkees: I think you don't have to do anything, it will just work22:53
loolkees: So just start it as usual22:53
loolkees: Oh are you trying to start a vm?22:54
cjwatsonev: ^- didn't you say something about problems along those lines just recently?22:54
loolkees: I've started this page documenting various tools/approaches https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Ports perhaps you'll find the answer you're looking for; it's still rough though22:54
mdzjust tried a microSD card, which has led to squashfs errors from the kernel. yawn.22:55
lifelessI had a fun thing the other day, a usb drive which has to be formatted raw, no partition table - but usb-creator didn't want to do that22:56
lifelesswould an option for usb-creator be a reasonable feature request?22:56
mdzlifeless, it can do that, it's just not very obvious22:56
mdzfind the parent device and click the 'format' button22:57
lifelessmdz: IIRC, when I did that, it gave it a MBR, dos disklabel and a partition within that.22:57
lifelessI shall try again.22:57
mdzlifeless, oh, maybe I misunderstood what you meant22:58
mdzyou're saying you don't want a partition table on it?22:58
lifelessright, it can't be booted of by the netbook I was installing otherwise22:58
lifelessit needed to be treated like a floppy disk - filesystem on /dev/sdb with first block a boot record22:58
mdzI just noticed that after clicking "quit" on the usb-creator dialog which says "everything is cool, go forth and boot that sucker" there is actually still a progress dialog in the background and a umount process still running23:00
mdzI am totally blaming usb-creator23:04
psusisay... the cpufreq gnome panel applet requires root privs for full functionality... I gather it should get them somehow with policy kit but I have no idea how that works... can anyone point me in the right direction?23:10
zygapsusi: I remember that some part of that applet had to be setuid to work correctly, that was long time ago though23:19
psusizyga, yes, setting the binary to suid will make it work, but shouldn't it use polkit to elevate privs?23:20
psusiso that normal users can still run it without root privs?23:20
zygapsusi: it's not using polkit to do it as far as I know, and besides that - polkit is not the answer - you'd still need something running as root23:21
zyga(something that would change cpu policy)23:21
RAOFpsusi: What you need, IIUC, is to have a dbus-activated setuid process which acutally does the action, then polkit arbitrates access to the setuid process.23:21
zygapolkit would just authorize you to use that23:21
RAOFAlternatively, you could patch out the ability to set CPU frequency policy.23:22
psusiexactly... polkit should be running the applet as root if the user has admin permissions23:22
zygapsusi: running the applet as root is a bad idea23:22
zygapsusi: the applet runs as your user23:23
psusiit has to run as root to modify the settings23:23
zygapsusi: the applet should request via polkit to access another process that just switches the policy and exits23:23
zygapsusi: the applet should not modify the settings directly23:23
psusihrm... that sounds like a rewrite of the applet23:23
zyganot really, just split23:23
RAOFJust the CPU policy setting bit.23:24
zygajust replace whatever_you_do_to_write_to_cpu_policy_governor_file23:24
psusihrm... guess I'll file a bug on that then and echo it upstream23:24
zygaIMHO writing the "daemon" to do that is trivial, coupling that to dbus and polkit is more challenging23:24
zygaAFAIR all you have to do is echo to some file in /sys or /proc to alter the CPU governor23:25
RAOFIs it actually useful, though?23:25
zygawell, yes, it is23:25
zygaI remember how angry I was to find out that ubuntu shipped this package without setuid23:25
zygafor security reasons, this is true but still23:26
RAOFBut what did you actually use it for?23:26
psusito manipulate the cpu frequency23:26
RAOFYes, that's obvious.  But why manipulate the CPU frequency?23:27
zygato manipulate the CPU governor23:28
psusisometimes I don't want it speeding up23:28
RAOFWhat is the goal for which manipulating the CPU governor is the most appropriate solution?23:28
zygathe default governor sucked, it was on-demand23:28
zygaso my laptop would suck all the power because of the crap flash advert running on some page23:28
zygaI always switched to powersave23:29
psusiwhen you know you're running up because of some pile of shit flash app, you can lock the speed down23:29
zygafunny thing though, that was like 3 years ago :D23:29
zygaon my first laptop that would get very hot when doing anything CPU intensive23:30
zygaupstream <-> downstream disparity is not so good in this case23:30
zygaupstream ships setuid, ubuntu changes that23:30
RAOFStupid flash.23:30
zygaI think it's more complex than 'stiupid flash'23:31
RAOFRight.  You'd also like a thermal manager.23:31
psusicrap, just to get it working I set suid on the binary and it crashes trying to load... xsession-errors shows: System exception: IDL:omg.org/CORBA/COMM_FAILURE:1.023:32
psusithat used to work, just bad system policy23:33
zygapsusi: don't do that23:33
zygaapt-get source that-stuff23:33
zygaAFAIR there are two parts23:33
zygathe corba applet23:33
zygathe applet - it's loaded via corba but that is not relevant23:33
zygaand a helper tool that needs to be setuid23:33
=== petvillelogger is now known as cpplogger
zygaI'm not 100% sure but that's what I remember23:33
psusithere is a command line tool that you can use to manipulate the settings, but setting it suid didn't let the applet change them23:34
zygapsusi: reload the applet23:34
zygaactually, if you google a little, you might find the bug I opened for that issue, I'm not sure where it was exactly, I think that lp.net did not exist just yet23:36
zygaprobably gnome bugzilla IIRC23:37
psusiI remember a few years back I found in the gnome help file that it could modify the settings and I think I looked into it and found that they install it suid root, but we don't... so I set it suid and it worked... but now making it suid craps out23:37

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