| xperia | hello to all. i have a small question about a missing package. | 12:41 |
|---|---|---|
| xperia | i have searched to find the package opie but didnt had any luck till yet. | 12:41 |
| xperia | does anybody know if opie is available as a package for the arm structure | 12:41 |
| xperia | here is a nice build how to by the way that works great | 12:41 |
| xperia | http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/BuildOpie | 12:41 |
| xperia | i need it only now for the arm arch | 12:41 |
| persia | xperia: Which package seems to be missing? | 12:42 |
| xperia | opie itself http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/BuildOpie | 12:44 |
| xperia | open embedded has this package. angstrom too | 12:44 |
| xperia | only ubuntu mobile is missing it | 12:44 |
| persia | Which package? | 12:46 |
| persia | As far as I can tell, that "opie" is a collection of stuff. | 12:46 |
| xperia | persia: http://gitorious.org/opie/opie | 12:47 |
| xperia | well it is same like gpe only from my side of view sometime better | 12:48 |
| xperia | it can easy be build in less than 30 min with this instruction | 12:48 |
| xperia | http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/BuildOpie | 12:49 |
| xperia | i have allready builded it and on open embedded it can be builded it too as the recipes exist | 12:49 |
| xperia | it is however missing in ubuntu mobile | 12:49 |
| persia | Used to be available. Let me see if I can figure out why it's gone. | 12:51 |
| xperia | persia: ohhh wooow if it could be maked availble especially also for the arm arch this would be awesome. | 12:54 |
| xperia | Opie is still developed as you can see on gitorious. | 12:54 |
| xperia | opie has a full desktop with full working mail programms, multimedia programms and so on. | 12:54 |
| xperia | some screenshots of the the older releases | 12:54 |
| xperia | http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/main.php | 12:54 |
| persia | We try really hard not to make anything available for only one architecture. | 12:55 |
| persia | So that people can use the same mobile environment whether they have i386/armel/powerpc handhelds. | 12:55 |
| xperia | persia: ohh woow this would be a heavy boost for this quite good gui for mobile devices | 12:57 |
| xperia | it is allready used on some mobile pocket pc phones | 12:57 |
| xperia | http://i37.tinypic.com/144b90o.jpg | 12:57 |
| xperia | http://i37.tinypic.com/24mhqps.jpg | 12:57 |
| xperia | http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kovsky Linux | 12:57 |
| xperia | if opie would be availble for ubuntu-mobile this would be the perfect thing as it would increase the possibility running ubuntu mobile on the newest pocket pc successfull | 12:59 |
| xperia | at the moment most of th linux ditro runns on angstrom or oe | 12:59 |
| persia | Unfortunately my debtags search is eating my browser. | 13:00 |
| xperia | it should be very easy to compile it as described on the step by step build instruction. i have build it more than once successfull. if you have any question just ask. | 13:00 |
| persia | My suspicion is that some time in 2004 or 2005 someone stopped maintaining opie in Debian, and it got dropped for lack of further interest. | 13:00 |
| xperia | the maintainer told me this too as some deb packages should be availble. but opie is still developed and used. last patch is from | 13:03 |
| xperia | Thursday February 04 2010 | 13:03 |
| xperia | http://gitorious.com/opie/opie | 13:03 |
| xperia | i am working on opie too as a hobby coder :-) | 13:03 |
| persia | I can't find any good links that indicate when it was or wasn't added or removed from Debian. | 13:04 |
| persia | My strongest recommendation would be to work at getting it into Debian. | 13:04 |
| persia | This will then also be available in Ubuntu and all other Debian derivatives. | 13:04 |
| xperia | so i should try at debian in this case | 13:05 |
| persia | xperia: That's my recommendation, just because Debian has maintainers, so there's a better chance of keeping it there. | 13:06 |
| persia | Adding stuff to Ubuntu that doesn't get added to Debian is usually a temporary matter except for special stuff highly interesting to some specific Ubuntu flavour. | 13:06 |
| xperia | okay i have allready asked at the debian chanell | 13:09 |
| persia | OK. Please feel free to ask more here if you have questions or need help. | 13:11 |
| persia | I just think it needs someone to care for it, and just tossing it in the repository is not best. | 13:11 |
| xperia | well they have told me to package it but i have no experience with packaging it. if somebody would help me the first time i would do it however | 13:13 |
| persia | I could certainly do that, but not right now. Would you be available around this time tomorrow? | 13:14 |
| persia | Err, no, that won't work :/ | 13:15 |
| persia | So a little later than now tomorrow, or another day or another hour, catch me here. | 13:15 |
| xperia | yeah great ! then we see us tomorow some hours later than yet or another day | 13:16 |
| xperia | thanks persia :-) | 13:16 |
| persia | Happy to help. | 13:17 |
| === doko_ is now known as doko | ||
| xperia | persia: or to others for some strange reason opie exist in ubuntu | 13:47 |
| xperia | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opie/2.40~dfsg-0ubuntu1 | 13:47 |
| xperia | it need just to be updated | 13:47 |
| persia | xperia: That's a different "opie", isn't it? | 13:48 |
| * persia thought that was a smartcard thing | 13:48 | |
| xperia | well the whole discussion is done on debian-arm | 13:49 |
| xperia | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=511582 | 13:49 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 511582 in opie "packaged opie 2.4, fixing testsuite failures on arm/armel" [Serious,Open] | 13:49 |
| xperia | it should be the same package from my point of view | 13:50 |
| xperia | maybe it just dont has everything enabled like mp3 players email programms and such as this can be set all optional to be builded | 13:50 |
| persia | See, the current "opie" package is a one-time passwod manager. | 13:51 |
| persia | You7re talking about a *different* opie. | 13:51 |
| xperia | yeah the people at debian told me that too but this is very strange why does they use the same name for this programm | 13:52 |
| persia | That happens a lot. | 13:53 |
| persia | Most folk don't seem to check carefully before choosing a name. | 13:53 |
| persia | Looks like opie the password management system started in 1995, and opie the environment started. in 2001 | 13:57 |
| xperia | hmmm ha ha ha very strange | 13:58 |
| persia | heh. | 14:00 |
| xperia | but the very strange thing is that this person develop also the libpam-opie that is used in the palmtop environment too | 14:00 |
| xperia | for example opie-server that sync with the palmtop environment | 14:00 |
| persia | heh. | 14:01 |
| xperia | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=553416 | 14:03 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 553416 in libpam-opie "libpam-opie: Adding support for pam-auth-update" [Wishlist,Open] | 14:03 |
| xperia | the whole packages are 100% related to opie | 14:04 |
| xperia | need maybe to cantact him and ask what is the actuall process | 14:05 |
| xperia | persia: it looks like really this programms are not related to opie palmtop environment | 14:10 |
| persia | I don't think it's related at all, actually. | 14:11 |
| xperia | yeah. i can only remember that libpam was used in opie while the compiling. thats why i have thinked they are related to opie palmtop environment especially for syncing purposses | 14:13 |
| xperia | thanks for the clarification | 14:13 |
| xperia | okay see you all next time. bye ! | 14:17 |
| persia | NCommander: Hey! | 14:27 |
| NCommander | persia: sorry about that | 14:27 |
| persia | Are you still using Android? | 14:27 |
| NCommander | persia: yes, and still doing some upstream hacking on it | 14:27 |
| NCommander | (low level, but I know how to port android to new platforms) | 14:28 |
| persia | Is the hack to use the test demo environment to run inside Ubuntu still viable? | 14:28 |
| persia | Also, has the issue that it requires the binary-only Java been resolved? | 14:28 |
| NCommander | persia: using SIMULATOR mode? | 14:28 |
| NCommander | no | 14:28 |
| persia | yeah. | 14:28 |
| persia | no? | 14:28 |
| persia | What happened? | 14:28 |
| NCommander | I believe that got ripped out with eclair | 14:28 |
| NCommander | it was depricated with android 1.0 | 14:28 |
| NCommander | And its the wrong way to do it, we should properly expose /dev/binder for the Android userspace | 14:29 |
| persia | Can we? | 14:29 |
| NCommander | persia: its required to build Android, but it might be fixable to use icetea instead (there are some issues with building older Android releases on Java 6, but I think patches landed with 2.1 to finally fix that, I can poke in android-porting if need be) | 14:29 |
| NCommander | persia: I think we have the android bits in the kernel in staging. It should be a matter of flipping them on, and recompiling | 14:30 |
| persia | That's all? | 14:31 |
| NCommander | persia: well, Android isn't X based | 14:31 |
| NCommander | so basically, what we need to bring android up is the following | 14:31 |
| NCommander | 1. android ported to x86 (there are two separate projects that do this) | 14:31 |
| NCommander | 2. /dev/binder support | 14:32 |
| NCommander | 3. chroot environment | 14:32 |
| NCommander | 4. Allocate arange of UIDs for android to use (android assigns each app its own UID for security reasons) | 14:32 |
| NCommander | 5. Either trap writes to /dev/graphics/fb0 or use androidvncserver and some voodoo | 14:32 |
| persia | Why do we need x86? | 14:33 |
| NCommander | persia: dalvik has platform specific bits. Unless you want to run Android in an emulator | 14:33 |
| persia | I'd rather use a VNC server. What sort of voodoo? | 14:33 |
| persia | chroot is easy. | 14:33 |
| NCommander | persia: android assumes /dev/graphics/fb0 is going to be there. You'll have to teach it thats its not, and just use VNC instead | 14:33 |
| amitk | NCommander: android drivers were removed from the mainline kernel staging | 14:34 |
| persia | NCommander: Why use an emulator? Why not just run on hardware to which it's ported for now, and encourage bugfixing for the rest. | 14:34 |
| NCommander | persia: because any android app that uses the NDK would then not run | 14:34 |
| NCommander | amitk: ugh, reason? | 14:34 |
| amitk | unmaintained by google, no fixes to move them to drivers | 14:35 |
| persia | NCommander: Hrm? I'm confused. Tell me why I need porting to x86 or an emulator to run on my Netwalker. | 14:35 |
| NCommander | amitk: ****, there goes the easy flip switch for binder. How hard would it be to add to our mainline | 14:35 |
| NCommander | persia: oh ... ugh | 14:35 |
| NCommander | persia: I didn't think about that. I still think netbook == i386 :-/ | 14:35 |
| persia | Silly. | 14:36 |
| NCommander | persia: you'd still want to use android-x86, since it has support for mice and not just touchpads | 14:36 |
| persia | There's i386, powerpc, and armel hardware out there mostly. Some amd64 stuff is coming out recently as well. | 14:36 |
| amitk | NCommander: we won't do it (apply a random unmaintained patch with no hope of being mainlined) unless you have a very good reason, as always :) | 14:36 |
| NCommander | persia: android isn't 64-bit clean last time I checked unfortunately, so it won't run on amd64 unless you want the pain of porting it | 14:37 |
| persia | amitk: Is this an Ubuntu Kernel position? What if they were pushed mainline? | 14:37 |
| NCommander | persia: google made comments saying that they weren't interested in mainlining | 14:37 |
| amitk | persia: we had in enabled in staging in Karmic | 14:37 |
| amitk | *it | 14:37 |
| persia | NCommander: That's fine. I don7t really care about porting right now. I can live with just armel for a while. | 14:37 |
| persia | amitk: Ah, I understand. | 14:37 |
| amitk | persia: NCommander: best write to ubuntu-kernel ML if you want the official version of the story | 14:38 |
| amitk | this is the abridged version | 14:38 |
| persia | amitk: First I want to find out how big a project the whole thing ends up being :) | 14:38 |
| NCommander | amitk: roughly speaking, how large is /dev/binder suppotr? | 14:38 |
| NCommander | *support | 14:38 |
| amitk | NCommander: dunno, but look at sha id b0a0ccf in git for the commit that removed them | 14:40 |
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