[12:41] <xperia> hello to all. i have a small question about a missing package.
[12:41] <xperia> i have searched to find the package opie but didnt had any luck till yet.
[12:41] <xperia> does anybody know if opie is available as a package for the arm structure
[12:41] <xperia> here is a nice build how to by the way that works great
[12:41] <xperia> http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/BuildOpie
[12:41] <xperia> i need it only now for the arm arch 
[12:42] <persia> xperia: Which package seems to be missing?
[12:44] <xperia> opie itself http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/BuildOpie
[12:44] <xperia> open embedded has this package. angstrom too
[12:44] <xperia> only ubuntu mobile is missing it
[12:46] <persia> Which package?
[12:46] <persia> As far as I can tell, that "opie" is a collection of stuff.
[12:47] <xperia> persia: http://gitorious.org/opie/opie
[12:48] <xperia> well it is same like gpe only from my side of view sometime better
[12:48] <xperia> it can easy be build in less than 30 min with this instruction
[12:49] <xperia> http://opie.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/BuildOpie
[12:49] <xperia> i have allready builded it and on open embedded it can be builded it too as the recipes exist
[12:49] <xperia> it is however missing in ubuntu mobile
[12:51] <persia> Used to be available.  Let me see if I can figure out why it's gone.
[12:54] <xperia> persia: ohhh wooow if it could be maked availble especially also for the arm arch this would be awesome.
[12:54] <xperia> Opie is still developed as you can see on gitorious.
[12:54] <xperia> opie has a full desktop with full working mail programms, multimedia programms and so on.
[12:54] <xperia> some screenshots of the the older releases 
[12:54] <xperia> http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/main.php
[12:55] <persia> We try really hard not to make anything available for only one architecture.
[12:55] <persia> So that people can use the same mobile environment whether they have i386/armel/powerpc handhelds.
[12:57] <xperia> persia: ohh woow this would be a heavy boost for this quite good gui for mobile devices
[12:57] <xperia> it is allready used on some mobile pocket pc phones
[12:57] <xperia> http://i37.tinypic.com/144b90o.jpg
[12:57] <xperia> http://i37.tinypic.com/24mhqps.jpg
[12:57] <xperia> http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kovsky Linux
[12:59] <xperia> if opie would be availble for ubuntu-mobile this would be the perfect thing as it would increase the possibility running ubuntu mobile on the newest pocket pc successfull
[12:59] <xperia> at the moment most of th linux ditro runns on angstrom or oe
[13:00] <persia> Unfortunately my debtags search is eating my browser.
[13:00] <xperia> it should be very easy to compile it as described on the step by step build instruction. i have build it more than once successfull. if you have any question just ask.
[13:00] <persia> My suspicion is that some time in 2004 or 2005 someone stopped maintaining opie in Debian, and it got dropped for lack of further interest.
[13:03] <xperia> the maintainer told me this too as some deb packages should be availble. but opie is still developed and used. last patch is from
[13:03] <xperia> Thursday February 04 2010
[13:03] <xperia> http://gitorious.com/opie/opie
[13:03] <xperia> i am working on opie too as a hobby coder :-)
[13:04] <persia> I can't find any good links that indicate when it was or wasn't added or removed from Debian.
[13:04] <persia> My strongest recommendation would be to work at getting it into Debian.
[13:04] <persia> This will then also be available in Ubuntu and all other Debian derivatives.
[13:05] <xperia> so i should try at debian in this case
[13:06] <persia> xperia: That's my recommendation, just because Debian has maintainers, so there's a better chance of keeping it there.
[13:06] <persia> Adding stuff to Ubuntu that doesn't get added to Debian is usually a temporary matter except for special stuff highly interesting to some specific Ubuntu flavour.
[13:09] <xperia> okay i have allready asked at the debian chanell
[13:11] <persia> OK.  Please feel free to ask more here if you have questions or need help.
[13:11] <persia> I just think it needs someone to care for it, and just tossing it in the repository is not best.
[13:13] <xperia> well they have told me to package it but i have no experience with packaging it. if somebody would help me the first time i would do it however
[13:14] <persia> I could certainly do that, but not right now.  Would you be available around this time tomorrow?
[13:15] <persia> Err, no, that won't work :/
[13:15] <persia> So a little later than now tomorrow, or another day or another hour, catch me here.
[13:16] <xperia> yeah great ! then we see us tomorow some hours later than yet or another day
[13:16] <xperia> thanks persia :-)
[13:17] <persia> Happy to help.
[13:47] <xperia> persia: or to others for some strange reason opie exist in ubuntu
[13:47] <xperia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opie/2.40~dfsg-0ubuntu1
[13:47] <xperia> it need just to be updated
[13:48] <persia> xperia: That's a different "opie", isn't it?
[13:48]  * persia thought that was a smartcard thing
[13:49] <xperia> well the whole discussion is done on debian-arm
[13:49] <xperia> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=511582
[13:50] <xperia> it should be the same package from my point of view
[13:50] <xperia> maybe it just dont has everything enabled like mp3 players email programms and such as this can be set all optional to be builded
[13:51] <persia> See, the current "opie" package is a one-time passwod manager.
[13:51] <persia> You7re talking about a *different* opie.
[13:52] <xperia> yeah the people at debian told me that too but this is very strange why does they use the same name for this programm
[13:53] <persia> That happens a lot.
[13:53] <persia> Most folk don't seem to check carefully before choosing a name.
[13:57] <persia> Looks like opie the password management system started in 1995, and opie the environment started. in 2001
[13:58] <xperia> hmmm ha ha ha very strange
[14:00] <persia> heh.
[14:00] <xperia> but the very strange thing is that this person develop also the libpam-opie that is used in the palmtop environment too
[14:00] <xperia> for example opie-server that sync with the palmtop environment
[14:01] <persia> heh.
[14:03] <xperia> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=553416
[14:04] <xperia> the whole packages are 100% related to opie
[14:05] <xperia> need maybe to cantact him and ask what is the actuall process
[14:10] <xperia> persia: it looks like really this programms are not related to opie palmtop environment
[14:11] <persia> I don't think it's related at all, actually.
[14:13] <xperia> yeah. i can only remember that libpam was used in opie while the compiling. thats why i have thinked they are related to opie palmtop environment especially for syncing purposses
[14:13] <xperia> thanks for the clarification
[14:17] <xperia> okay see you all next time. bye !
[14:27] <persia> NCommander: Hey!
[14:27] <NCommander> persia: sorry about that
[14:27] <persia> Are you still using Android?
[14:27] <NCommander> persia: yes, and still doing some upstream hacking on it
[14:28] <NCommander> (low level, but I know how to port android to new platforms)
[14:28] <persia> Is the hack to use the test demo environment to run inside Ubuntu still viable?
[14:28] <persia> Also, has the issue that it requires the binary-only Java been resolved?
[14:28] <NCommander> persia: using SIMULATOR mode?
[14:28] <NCommander> no
[14:28] <persia> yeah.
[14:28] <persia> no?
[14:28] <persia> What happened?
[14:28] <NCommander> I believe that got ripped out with eclair
[14:28] <NCommander> it was depricated with android 1.0
[14:29] <NCommander> And its the wrong way to do it, we should properly expose /dev/binder for the Android userspace
[14:29] <persia> Can we?
[14:29] <NCommander> persia: its required to build Android, but it might be fixable to use icetea instead (there are some issues with building older Android releases on Java 6, but I think patches landed with 2.1 to finally fix that, I can poke in android-porting if need be)
[14:30] <NCommander> persia: I think we have the android bits in the kernel in staging. It should be a matter of flipping them on, and recompiling
[14:31] <persia> That's all?
[14:31] <NCommander> persia: well, Android isn't X based
[14:31] <NCommander> so basically, what we need to bring android up is the following
[14:31] <NCommander> 1. android ported to x86 (there are two separate projects that do this)
[14:32] <NCommander> 2. /dev/binder support
[14:32] <NCommander> 3. chroot environment
[14:32] <NCommander> 4. Allocate  arange of UIDs for android to use (android assigns each app its own UID for security reasons)
[14:32] <NCommander> 5. Either trap writes to /dev/graphics/fb0 or use androidvncserver and some voodoo
[14:33] <persia> Why do we need x86?
[14:33] <NCommander> persia: dalvik has platform specific bits. Unless you want to run Android in an emulator 
[14:33] <persia> I'd rather use a VNC server.  What sort of voodoo?
[14:33] <persia> chroot is easy.
[14:33] <NCommander> persia: android assumes /dev/graphics/fb0 is going to be there. You'll have to teach it thats its not, and just use VNC instead
[14:34] <amitk> NCommander: android drivers were removed from the mainline kernel staging
[14:34] <persia> NCommander: Why use an emulator?  Why not just run on hardware to which it's ported for now, and encourage bugfixing for the rest.
[14:34] <NCommander> persia: because any android app that uses the NDK would then not run
[14:34] <NCommander> amitk: ugh, reason?
[14:35] <amitk> unmaintained by google, no fixes to move them to drivers
[14:35] <persia> NCommander: Hrm?  I'm confused.  Tell me why I need porting to x86 or an emulator to run on my Netwalker.
[14:35] <NCommander> amitk: ****, there goes the easy flip switch for binder. How hard would it be to add to our mainline
[14:35] <NCommander> persia: oh ... ugh
[14:35] <NCommander> persia: I didn't think about that. I still think netbook == i386 :-/
[14:36] <persia> Silly.
[14:36] <NCommander> persia: you'd still want to use android-x86, since it has support for mice and not just touchpads
[14:36] <persia> There's i386, powerpc, and armel hardware out there mostly.  Some amd64 stuff is coming out recently as well.
[14:36] <amitk> NCommander: we won't do it (apply a random unmaintained patch with no hope of being mainlined) unless you have a very good reason, as always :)
[14:37] <NCommander> persia: android isn't 64-bit clean last time I checked unfortunately, so it won't run on amd64 unless you want the pain of porting it
[14:37] <persia> amitk: Is this an Ubuntu Kernel position?  What if they were pushed mainline?
[14:37] <NCommander> persia: google made comments saying that they weren't interested in mainlining
[14:37] <amitk> persia: we had in enabled in staging in Karmic
[14:37] <amitk> *it
[14:37] <persia> NCommander: That's fine.  I don7t really care about porting right now.  I can live with just armel for a while.
[14:37] <persia> amitk: Ah, I understand.
[14:38] <amitk> persia: NCommander: best write to ubuntu-kernel ML if you want the official version of the story
[14:38] <amitk> this is the abridged version
[14:38] <persia> amitk: First I want to find out how big a project the whole thing ends up being :)
[14:38] <NCommander> amitk: roughly speaking, how large is /dev/binder suppotr?
[14:38] <NCommander> *support
[14:40] <amitk> NCommander: dunno, but look at sha id b0a0ccf in git for the commit that removed them