[01:34] <Red_HamsterX> Yay. Finally free from interviews tomorrow.
[01:34] <Red_HamsterX> I can finally do things again!
[01:34] <Red_HamsterX> (And try to write a todo list)
[01:34] <humphreybc> woohoo!
[01:50] <humphreybc> that was an odd quit message
[01:51] <d0od> I want a really offensive quit message
[01:51] <humphreybc> hahaha
[01:51] <humphreybc> "Gone to use Windows 7"
[01:51] <humphreybc> or
[01:51] <humphreybc> "Gone to use Windows Vista"
[01:51] <humphreybc> ...
[01:52] <d0od> haha
[01:52] <Red_HamsterX> "Reinstalling WinME"
[01:52] <humphreybc> "Gone to use some monopolistic pricey proprietary software on a Windows Vista SP1 install at a Windows songsmith release party"
[01:54] <Red_HamsterX> "Patronizing global monopolies -- someone's gotta keep them in business."
[01:54] <humphreybc> lol
[01:55] <Red_HamsterX> Or maybe something blunt...
[01:55] <Red_HamsterX> "You all suck"
[01:56] <Red_HamsterX> But that's not witty in the slightest.
[01:57] <humphreybc> lol
[01:57]  * humphreybc cannot set his quit message in pidgin anymore... used to be able to!
[02:03]  * humphreybc just got 10 karmic CDs in the post from Canonical. Yay!
[02:05] <Red_HamsterX> Why didn't you just wait for Lucid?
[02:05] <Red_HamsterX> Or was it becuase you think Lucid looks so ugly that it wouldn't be worth spreading the discs?
[02:10] <humphreybc> lol
[02:10] <humphreybc> i ordered the CDs about 2 months ago
[02:11] <humphreybc> anyway, I'll try to nab some Lucid CDs at UDS
[02:12]  * humphreybc doesn't know if he's going or not yet, but power of positive thought...
[03:50] <humphreybc> right
[03:50] <humphreybc> time to get some f***ing stuff done
[03:59] <humphreybc> godbyk, ping
[03:59] <godbyk> I'm back now
[03:59] <godbyk> humphreybc: what's up?
[03:59] <humphreybc> cool
[03:59] <humphreybc> could you please add the english build to the build server
[04:00] <humphreybc> and give me a permanent link for the latest revision to add to the wiki
[04:00] <godbyk> humphreybc: Yeah, I can do that.
[04:00] <humphreybc> cheers
[04:00] <godbyk> Keep in mind that they're only rebuilt when I get around to pushing a button.  I haven't completely automated it (yet).
[04:01] <godbyk> Lemme finish this cover page stuff first.
[04:01] <humphreybc> cool
[04:01] <humphreybc> if you could completely automate it, at least for the english version i'll give you a cookie
[04:03] <nisshh> humphreybc: do you build a pdf and store it on the build server for testing?
[04:03] <humphreybc> nisshh: that's what godbyk does yea
[04:03] <humphreybc> except he builds all the translations too
[04:03] <nisshh> right ok
[04:05] <nisshh> how many translations do you think will be ready for final release?
[04:05] <humphreybc> no idea
[04:06] <humphreybc> 20 if we're lucky
[04:06]  * humphreybc room is SO dusty!
[04:06] <nisshh> hehe
[04:07] <nisshh> iv noticed some of the transaltions are now about 65% done
[04:08] <nisshh> anyway iv got to go to work in a few minutes
[04:09] <humphreybc> WHY IS MY ROOM SO DUSTY
[04:34] <humphreybc> should I buy another Dell 24" LCD?
[04:35] <godbyk> Sure!
[04:35] <humphreybc> heh
[04:35] <humphreybc> see I've got one at the moment that I use for watching movies on. but I also want to use it as a dual screen thing with my laptop. To do that I have to move it, and I don't want to move it back every time I want to watch a movie
[04:35] <humphreybc> so I could just buy another one
[04:39] <humphreybc> i'll think about it...
[04:39] <humphreybc> the one i have now is sooo nice and dell have such a good price
[04:41] <humphreybc> godbyk, do you think we need the mission statement on the first page?
[04:41] <godbyk> probably not anymore.
[04:41] <humphreybc> kk
[04:41] <godbyk> just one or two sentences explaining what the project is about.
[04:42] <humphreybc> The Ubuntu Manual Team is a group of volunteers striving to improve Ubuntu education by creating quality education materials and resources.
[04:42] <humphreybc> sound good
[04:42] <humphreybc> ?
[04:43] <godbyk> That's what the team is about.  You want text for the page about the manual, right?
[04:43] <humphreybc> yep
[04:43] <humphreybc> already got that though
[04:43] <godbyk> ah, 'kay.
[04:44] <godbyk> the description is kind of generic.
[04:44] <godbyk> doesn't differentiate us from the learning team or the general docs team.
[04:45] <humphreybc> what are we taking off the header?
[04:45] <humphreybc> artwork, FAQ, blueprints, table of contents?
[04:47] <humphreybc> and research
[04:47] <godbyk> I think all those can go, yeah.
[04:48] <godbyk> where's thorwil when I need him? :)
[04:49] <humphreybc> haha
[04:49] <godbyk> I'm taking his title page and reconstructing it in LaTeX.
[04:49] <godbyk> But I have to generalize it so it'll work with all our translations.
[04:50] <godbyk> It's awesome that we have so many translations, but it sure makes it harder to design things!
[04:50] <humphreybc> hehe
[04:53] <humphreybc> check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/New
[04:54] <humphreybc> I don't know why when I specify border=none for the tables it still has a 1px border
[05:00]  * humphreybc is going to buy a new keyboard and mouse tomorrow
[05:05] <godbyk> not bad.
[05:05] <humphreybc> thanks
[05:05] <humphreybc> just working on the help page now
[05:05] <godbyk> We're starting to outgrow the wiki.  And since we have our own web space, we should use it. :)
[05:05] <humphreybc> heh
[05:05] <humphreybc> we will, in time :D
[05:06] <godbyk> fair enough :)
[05:06] <humphreybc> i think i'm going to have a bit of a spend up tomorrrow. I'm going to buy a nice new keyboard and a nice new mouse since I'm using dualscreen now and using my 24" as the primary instead of my laptop screen. Then maybe i'll consider buying another 24" monitor
[05:06] <godbyk> humphreybc: don't forget to email the list about this weekend's meeting.
[05:06] <humphreybc>  yup
[05:07] <godbyk> sounds like you're spending tons of cash. did you win the lottery?  a grandparent die?  :)
[05:07] <humphreybc> lol
[05:07] <humphreybc> neither
[05:07] <humphreybc> my living costs are really low this year
[05:08] <humphreybc> so i can spend stuff quite comfortably
[05:08] <godbyk> nice
[05:10] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: what do you need help with in quickshot?
[05:10] <humphreybc> specifically
[05:10] <godbyk> humphreybc: making it work. :)
[05:10] <humphreybc> har har
[05:16] <humphreybc> i wonder if I can have three monitors by using both VGA and HDMI out on my laptop
[05:16] <humphreybc> so laptop goes to two 24" dells either side
[05:16] <humphreybc> ubuntu might have a fit
[05:16] <humphreybc> godbyk: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/contributions
[05:21] <humphreybc> what's happening to the style guide bit on the wiki?
[05:22] <godbyk> it's a good start.
[05:22] <godbyk> the style guide on the wiki should just be killed.
[05:22] <humphreybc> heh
[05:22] <godbyk> I'm trying to maintain the PDF version.
[05:22] <godbyk> (the PDF version allows us to show exactly what effect various commands have.)
[05:23] <humphreybc> cool
[05:23] <humphreybc> sounds good
[05:25] <godbyk> humphreybc: have you seen daker's version of the website? it looks pretty nice.
[05:25] <humphreybc> nope
[05:25] <godbyk> I think he's got it designed to support multiple languages, too.
[05:25] <humphreybc> wow cool
[05:25] <humphreybc> yay!
[05:25] <godbyk> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/daker/
[05:25] <humphreybc> refresh the manual home page in about 5 seconds
[05:25] <humphreybc> fantastic!!!
[05:25] <godbyk> what?
[05:25] <humphreybc> the site!
[05:26] <humphreybc> that is great!
[05:26] <godbyk> got that. refresh what, though?
[05:26] <humphreybc> stick it as the default test.ubuntu-manual.org
[05:26] <humphreybc> refresh the wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
[05:26] <humphreybc> where is daker? we need to give him a gold medal
[05:27] <godbyk> haven't seen him in here for a day or two.
[05:27] <humphreybc> i think nissh was going to start work on the site from scratch
[05:27] <humphreybc> but i can tell him not to worry now :)
[05:27] <humphreybc> daker seems to have it looking pretty smooth
[05:28] <humphreybc> have you got that permanent link to the english build for me yet?
[05:28] <godbyk> what do you mean?
[05:29] <humphreybc> you know on the wiki page under "Download Now!"
[05:29] <humphreybc> it says "blah blah blah here"
[05:29] <humphreybc> the here needs to be a hyperlink to a download location where they can get the latest revision
[05:29] <humphreybc> i'll make a button in photoshop as an image and then link the image
[05:29] <godbyk> oh.  use http://ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual.pdf for now.
[05:29] <humphreybc> ah cool, thanks
[05:30] <godbyk> make it clear that it's a draft.
[05:30] <humphreybc> trtue
[05:30] <humphreybc> true*
[05:30] <humphreybc> ugh i hate this crappy keyboard
[05:30] <godbyk> buy a new one. :)
[05:30] <humphreybc> i keep on reaching over to use my laptop keyboard whenever i switch focus to my laptop screen where IRC is
[05:31] <humphreybc> so stick the root directory of test.ubuntu-manual.org to dakers folder
[05:34] <godbyk> okay.  if we're dropping the others, we should send them emails to let them know (so they don't waste time continuing to work on them).
[05:34] <godbyk> you should probably also give daker a heads-up
[05:35] <godbyk> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/ points to daker now.
[05:36] <humphreybc> kk
[05:36] <godbyk> you'll need to let him know so he can fix his links (since we just broke them)
[05:36] <humphreybc> you got an email address somewhere for him?
[05:37] <godbyk> yeah, hold on
[05:43] <humphreybc> okay the wiki home page is pretty much sorted now, have a look
[05:43] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
[05:45] <humphreybc> godbyk, lot of people on facebook seem to like thorwil's E design for the title page
[05:45] <humphreybc> it's quite nice
[05:46] <godbyk> which is his E design?
[05:46] <humphreybc> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/ubuntu-manual-title-page/
[05:47] <godbyk> did you see his latest?
[05:48] <humphreybc> nope
[05:49] <humphreybc> where's tat?
[05:53] <godbyk> I think it looks more like A on that page.
[05:59] <humphreybc> we need to develop a very simple set of instructions for authors and editors to start working on the branch from scratch
[05:59] <humphreybc> so we assume all they have is ubuntu, no knowledge of latex, bzr, launchpad
[05:59] <godbyk> right
[06:00] <godbyk> what are the big-picture steps?
[06:00] <humphreybc> and our goal is to have them able to work on the .tex files and compile the manual, push to main
[06:00] <humphreybc> well
[06:00] <godbyk> create launchpad account and join ubuntu-manual team
[06:00] <humphreybc> they need to set up launchpad, join the team
[06:00] <humphreybc> heh
[06:00] <godbyk> install bzr and download branch
[06:00] <humphreybc> then they need to install stuff
[06:00] <humphreybc> yup
[06:00] <godbyk> install texlive 2009 and run install-pkgs.sh
[06:00] <humphreybc> install texlive 2009, dependencies
[06:00] <godbyk> translate via launchpad
[06:00] <humphreybc> translate?
[06:00] <humphreybc> this is just for authors/editors
[06:00] <humphreybc> translators are other stuff
[06:01] <godbyk> ah, 'kay.
[06:02] <godbyk> so basically: launchpad stuff, bzr stuff, tex stuff, style guide stuff.  that's it, right?
[06:03] <humphreybc> yea
[06:03] <humphreybc> but this stuff needs to be super easy
[06:04] <godbyk> right.. at the moment I'm just outlining to get an idea of what we need to cover.
[06:04] <godbyk> are there any major things missing there?
[06:04] <IlyaHaykinson> will the "OMG" in the progress bar eventually change to an OMFGWTFBBQ?
[06:04] <humphreybc> nope
[06:20] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: perhaps :)
[06:24] <IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: do you think you will get a chance to address my todos from the installation chapter?
[06:24] <IlyaHaykinson> i think there are still some problems with those instructions.
[06:25] <humphreybc> I've seen them, should have a minute to look at them later this week
[06:25] <humphreybc> Just re-organizing the wiki page at the moment
[06:25] <humphreybc> have a look at it
[06:25] <IlyaHaykinson> nod, i saw your changes. thanks for making them -- the wiki pages were getting a bit confusing.
[06:25] <IlyaHaykinson> new structure is easier.
[06:26] <humphreybc> if you have a look at the "How you can help" page
[06:26] <humphreybc> I need help creating all the instructions for each role
[06:26] <humphreybc> I'm currently working on the instructions for Authors/Editors
[06:27] <humphreybc> how do you do code in the wiki?
[06:27] <humphreybc> godbyk http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4439518005/
[06:29] <godbyk> humphreybc: nice!  much cleaner than my desks!
[06:29] <IlyaHaykinson> {{{
[06:29] <IlyaHaykinson> some code
[06:29] <IlyaHaykinson> }}}
[06:30] <humphreybc> thanks
[06:34] <humphreybc> hmm
[06:34] <humphreybc> ground control isn't working at the moment
[06:34] <humphreybc> so should we just go with CLI bzr?
[06:34] <humphreybc> for now?
[06:35] <godbyk> yeah, go with cli bzr.
[06:36] <IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: we need to find some testers for the manual
[06:36] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: one step ahead of you
[06:36] <IlyaHaykinson> oh?
[06:36] <humphreybc> the readers of omgubuntu.co.uk are going to be doing some widescale testing for us next week
[06:37] <IlyaHaykinson> hm, ok, not bad!
[06:37] <humphreybc> :)
[06:37] <humphreybc> so we need to make sure our bug system is all in place
[06:37] <IlyaHaykinson> i would also love to have some linux beginners testing this... you know, our target audience :)
[06:37] <humphreybc> yeah i know
[06:37] <humphreybc> they're just testing for grammar stuff
[06:37] <IlyaHaykinson> the omgubuntu folks?
[06:37] <IlyaHaykinson> that's not all that helpful.
[06:37] <IlyaHaykinson> grammar we can do ourselves
[06:38] <humphreybc> you know, like the ground crew do every morning on an aircraft carrier
[06:38] <IlyaHaykinson> it's the functional stuff that's difficult
[06:38] <IlyaHaykinson> like, following all the instructions as described
[06:38] <IlyaHaykinson> in every single sentence
[06:38] <humphreybc> well they're testing for that too i guess. but yeah you're right about the target audience
[06:38] <IlyaHaykinson> i'm very afraid that whlie we really tried, we still end up producing something that's unreadable.
[06:39] <IlyaHaykinson> at that point we'll want to probably just cut that material from this branch and postpone it till the next edition
[06:39] <IlyaHaykinson> but we need to know what to cut.
[06:39] <humphreybc> indeed
[06:39] <IlyaHaykinson> the grammar... while helpful, isn't the worst of offenses
[06:39] <IlyaHaykinson> if we get it wrong
[06:39] <humphreybc> I know. the first release isn't going to be perfect
[06:39] <IlyaHaykinson> while bad instructions are at lot worse
[06:39] <humphreybc> as much as I would like it to be
[06:40] <humphreybc> if you have any ideas on how we can do widescale testing with ubuntu noobs, please, let me know :D
[06:41] <IlyaHaykinson> hm. three ways. 1) we can create a survey, and encourage people to fill it out afterwards. those responses will be a lot more helpful than just free-form responses.
[06:42] <humphreybc> I'd like to do that for the omgubuntu thing as well
[06:42] <IlyaHaykinson> 2) create a "initiate your parent, sibling, or significant other" program for two weeks or so. encourage linux users to get a PC and con/bribe/plead with someone they know to sit down and follow the instructions
[06:43] <IlyaHaykinson> 3) make a game out of it -- whoever can submit email addresses for the most non-linuxy people that they test the manual on, wins.
[06:43] <humphreybc> heh
[06:44] <humphreybc> i like these ideas
[06:44] <humphreybc> but we'd have to start them now
[06:44] <humphreybc> because writing freeze is close
[06:44] <IlyaHaykinson> exactly.
[06:45] <humphreybc> okay. right now, i don't have enough time to do it myself, as much as I would like to
[06:45] <humphreybc> if you want to set it up, then email me the details and i'll make sure it gets the necessary publicity
[06:46] <humphreybc> godbyk, i've done the launchpad and bzr stuff. do you want to do the texlive stuff? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors
[06:46] <godbyk> humphreybc: sure
[06:46] <humphreybc> thanks :)
[06:47] <IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: *sigh* i wish i had the time for this. in the little time i have, i'm doing editing right now.
[06:47] <IlyaHaykinson> i guess we can do all this testing after the first edition is out.
[06:47] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: okay, no sweat
[06:47] <humphreybc> Yeah, we're pretty pressed for time right now
[06:47] <IlyaHaykinson> and make the second edition (or the 10.10 edition) better.
[06:47] <humphreybc> indeed. I'm sure the community would understand, what we have accomplished thus far has been beyond belief anyway.
[06:48] <godbyk> We could just call the whole thing off.  <grin>
[06:48] <humphreybc> and hopefully the release of the first edition will bring a lot of new help our way
[06:48] <humphreybc> lol
[06:48] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: what i'll need by next week is a very short questionnaire (5 questions or less) that I can include in the omgubuntu.co.uk article
[06:49] <humphreybc> (i'm a writer for omg! now btw)
[06:49] <IlyaHaykinson> re omg!, i saw, nice.
[06:49] <humphreybc> so basically we'll be selling it as a "preview" of the manual
[06:49] <humphreybc> and we'll be asking for their help in testing instructions, grammar, spelling, sentence structure, spacing etc etc
[06:50] <humphreybc> we'll give them a very clear set of instructions for how to post bugs so we don't get flooded
[06:50] <IlyaHaykinson> re survey: if i have time this weekend, i'll try. my company's developers from our China office is visiting us this week, and we have to take them all over Los Angeles (and to Las Vegas) this week to show them around.
[06:50] <humphreybc> in return, they'll feel like they are a part of the team. we might even get some more contributors out of it
[06:50] <IlyaHaykinson> that, plus real work, plus this -- been very busy.
[06:50] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: heh, i know how you feel. I'm supposed to be a full time university student
[06:50] <IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: what if we just have them email all the bugs to bugs@ubuntu-manual.org?
[06:51] <humphreybc> godbyk, what instructions should i put for the designers?
[06:51] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: I think they'd get lost pretty quickly
[06:51] <IlyaHaykinson> then we can log in, triage the bugs, and launchpad them
[06:51] <humphreybc> hmm
[06:51] <IlyaHaykinson> why would it get lost?
[06:51] <IlyaHaykinson> i'm saying create a separate account, called bugs
[06:51] <humphreybc> because there will be a tonne of bug reports
[06:51] <IlyaHaykinson> then log into it and triage after a few days
[06:51] <godbyk> I think they'll get lost in the bug tracker, too.
[06:51] <humphreybc> that takes time away from our people though, we want them to do the work
[06:51] <godbyk> a ton of duplicates, for instance.
[06:52] <humphreybc> yeah
[06:52] <IlyaHaykinson> i guarantee you that the compelxity of filing launchpad bugs will prevent most people from doing this
[06:52] <IlyaHaykinson> i've not filed bug reports probably a half dozen times
[06:52] <IlyaHaykinson> just for that reaso
[06:52] <IlyaHaykinson> reason
[06:52] <humphreybc> okay, well, if you think it's the best way to go, we'll do that
[06:52] <godbyk> we could have a custom bug-reporting form on the website to file errata.
[06:52] <godbyk> we could ask what translation they're looking at, page numbers, etc.
[06:52] <humphreybc> that could work
[06:52] <IlyaHaykinson> ooh, wait
[06:53] <IlyaHaykinson> Google Spreadsheets
[06:53] <IlyaHaykinson> it has a form filling engine
[06:53] <IlyaHaykinson> you can create an online form, point people to it.
[06:53] <IlyaHaykinson> and the form just fills in a spreadsheet
[06:53] <humphreybc> that sounds excellent
[06:53] <IlyaHaykinson> which we can then review
[06:54] <godbyk> true. we could easily sort by chapter then.
[06:54] <godbyk> have each editor handle their own chapters' bugs.
[06:54] <humphreybc> that sounds like a plan
[06:55] <humphreybc> and we can have the form on an easy URL, preferably our one?
[06:55] <humphreybc> like bugs.ubuntu-manual.org
[06:55] <IlyaHaykinson> i don't remember how the form URLs work, but i think yes.
[06:55] <humphreybc> excellent!
[06:55] <godbyk> humphreybc: not sure. but we have own own docs.
[06:55] <godbyk> http://docs.ubuntu-manual.org/
[06:56] <humphreybc> cool
[06:57] <humphreybc> so, to summarize, we want bugs.ubuntu-manual.org to take you to a form
[06:57] <humphreybc> the form has stuff like page number, translation, bug type (grammatical, sentence structure, spelling, logical) etc, and then a description field
[06:57] <humphreybc> then the form creates a new line in a spreadsheet
[06:58] <humphreybc> "bug type" would be a drop down combo box with pre-defined types
[06:58] <IlyaHaykinson> i would do a "describe the problem" field, and a "suggest a solution" field
[06:58] <humphreybc> that way, we can prioritize say, logical bugs above grammar
[06:58] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: ah yes, that's a good idea
[06:59] <godbyk> right
[06:59] <humphreybc> what's a good name for a bug type that describes something that "doesn't make sense"
[06:59] <IlyaHaykinson> i would unify grammar, sentence structure, spelling etc into one item... perhaps "Grammar/Spelling"
[06:59] <humphreybc> or maybe something that's hard to understand for a beginner
[06:59] <humphreybc> yep
[06:59] <godbyk> we can ask what kind of problem with a dropdown: spelling or grammatical error, misinformation, etc.
[06:59] <humphreybc> ah
[06:59] <IlyaHaykinson> then another category for "Incorrect Instructions"
[06:59] <humphreybc> good
[06:59] <humphreybc> factual error
[06:59] <IlyaHaykinson> and "Difficult to understand"
[06:59] <humphreybc> cool
[06:59] <humphreybc> they're good
[06:59] <humphreybc> :)
[07:00] <godbyk> which translation they're looking at
[07:00] <IlyaHaykinson> nice.
[07:00] <godbyk> maybe ask for revision number (it's on the copyright page)
[07:00] <IlyaHaykinson> nod.
[07:00] <humphreybc> yup
[07:00] <humphreybc> cool
[07:00] <godbyk> formatting bugs
[07:00] <humphreybc> who wants to set up the form? Ilya, since you know about this a bit? well more than me
[07:01] <humphreybc> I'll probably post the omgubuntu article on Monday the 22nd, ie next week
[07:01] <humphreybc> and we'll give it a week of testing till Monday the 29th
[07:01] <humphreybc> our writing freeze is on the 31st
[07:01] <humphreybc> during the testing week we can fix bugs as they are reported
[07:02] <IlyaHaykinson> humphreybc: i'm very pressed for time. i can try, but it won't happen until Sunday (my time), which may be too late for you
[07:03] <humphreybc> IlyaHaykinson: okay that's alright. i'll see if I can look into it
[07:03] <humphreybc> dutchie might do it for us :)
[07:03] <humphreybc> anyone know how to make an image a link on the wiki?
[07:04] <IlyaHaykinson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyntaxReference
[07:05] <IlyaHaykinson> it doesn't seem like there's a way to do this, in moin moin
[07:05] <humphreybc> there is, found it
[07:05] <humphreybc> wait
[07:05] <humphreybc> maybe not
[07:09] <humphreybc> bummer
[07:09] <humphreybc> the image looks so nice on the front page
[07:11]  * IlyaHaykinson thinks the manual is pretty schizophrenic right now: reads like it's been written by 20 authors
[07:11] <humphreybc> might be because it has been written by 20 authors :P
[07:11] <IlyaHaykinson> oh, for sure.
[07:11] <IlyaHaykinson> but that means that we're failing in editing a bit
[07:11] <IlyaHaykinson> some of this we'll fix for this edition
[07:11] <IlyaHaykinson> but i think this should be a big push for 10.04 second edition
[07:12] <humphreybc> yup
[07:12] <humphreybc> we'll probably release second edition for 10.04 sometime june/july
[07:13]  * humphreybc likes having a big LCD for work while keeping IRC open on the laptop monitor
[07:14] <humphreybc> oh yeah, Ilya, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org
[07:14] <IlyaHaykinson> no css?
[07:14] <humphreybc> the links to other pages are currently broken, but daker has actually made the other pages too
[07:14]  * godbyk will never give up his dual-monitor setup.. except maybe for a tri-monitor setup. 
[07:14] <humphreybc> hmm?
[07:15] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: See http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/daker/ for how it's meant to look/work.
[07:15] <IlyaHaykinson> ah ok, that's better
[07:16] <humphreybc> pretty snazzy, no?
[07:16] <IlyaHaykinson> very, i like
[07:16] <IlyaHaykinson> though the logo may need to change, now that i think of it.
[07:16] <humphreybc> the logo is being worked on :P
[07:16] <IlyaHaykinson> otherwise it looks like "Ubuntu" is the name of the manual project
[07:17] <humphreybc> thorwil and I are designing a new logo
[07:17] <IlyaHaykinson> okie dok
[07:17] <humphreybc> anyone got IE lying around to test it on?
[07:19] <IlyaHaykinson> i'll test it in the morning from IE
[07:19] <humphreybc> cool :)
[07:24] <humphreybc> CS2 under wine does not like dual monitors at all
[07:47] <ubuntujenkins> morning everyone
[07:51] <ubuntujenkins> IlyaHaykinson: with the gwibber section, how much detail is needed? So far I am covering/ going to cover how to add/edit accounts, how to change gwibber perefernces. Describe how gwibber displays multiple account and how to post to multiple accounts. is that abut right?
[07:53] <IlyaHaykinson> ubuntujenkins: sounds good to me.
[07:53] <ubuntujenkins> cool gwibber is hard to do as its sucj a new program
[07:54] <IlyaHaykinson> i know! i got confused by it at first.
[07:54] <ubuntujenkins> I am going to try and finish burning and printing tonight
[07:54] <IlyaHaykinson> i would also mention that the setup there affects your MeMenu
[07:54] <ubuntujenkins> good point
[07:55] <ubuntujenkins> I will have a look at the todos you put in the epmathy section
[07:56] <IlyaHaykinson> ok. i'm about to push a bunch of wording/grammar/button action changes
[07:57] <IlyaHaykinson> maybe in 5 mins
[07:57] <ubuntujenkins> cool I will not be doing anything until tonight (utc)
[07:59] <ubuntujenkins> I plan to finish most of my writing tonight so I can get my head down in quickshot
[08:00] <IlyaHaykinson> ok, sounds good
[08:00] <IlyaHaykinson> thanks!
[08:28] <ubuntujenkins> IlyaHaykinson: I spoke to matt griffin yesterday and asked him to upload what he had done and reminded him that the content frezze was 21st
[08:29] <IlyaHaykinson> ubuntujenkins: ok.  i will drop the sections altogether on the 21st if nothing is written -- and may do so anyways, if it's not good enough when uploaded.
[08:29] <IlyaHaykinson> we need high quality stuff, after all.
[08:30] <ubuntujenkins> fair enough, hopefully he will upload some stuff soon
[08:31] <godbyk> thorwil!
[08:31] <thorwil> godbyk?
[08:32] <godbyk> So I started coding your cover page in LaTeX.. just to see what issues we were going to encounter.
[08:32] <thorwil> and you found some hair-ripping delicious issues?
[08:32] <godbyk> Heh.. nearly.
[08:33] <godbyk> Not too bad (yet), really.
[08:33] <godbyk> I just saved the CoF and the five icons as individual PDFs first.
[08:33] <godbyk> The placed them on the page using hard-coded values: (x, y) coordinates.
[08:33] <IlyaHaykinson> ok, good nite all
[08:33] <godbyk> The tricker part is with the text.
[08:33] <godbyk> G'night, IlyaHaykinson
[08:33] <godbyk> We need to define some text blocks.
[08:34] <godbyk> So we'll need to figure out the width of the text block, the font size, weight, etc. of the text, and its starting (x, y) position on the page.
[08:34] <godbyk> (For the title, author, edition, and any other text we end up throwing in there.)
[08:35] <godbyk> So far I just took your design and hard-coded in some (x,y) coordinates and used the font sizes and whatnot from your SVG.
[08:35] <thorwil> godbyk: that should be simple, if inkscape and latex agree on how the bounding box is defined
[08:35] <ubuntujenkins> night IlyaHaykinson
[08:35] <godbyk> The tricky part comes in when we want to make our design look awesome with translated text.
[08:35] <godbyk> Getting the translated text in is easy.. it's automatic.
[08:36] <godbyk> The tricky part comes in where we want the design to look good, still.
[08:36] <godbyk> So it'll depend on how much time and effort we want to spend on it.
[08:36] <godbyk> LaTeX is a full-blown programming language, so we can do lots of crazy stuff.
[08:37] <godbyk> But I wanted to talk to you and have you help me identified what parameters are important to your design and how they're affected by, say, longer or shorter titles, etc.
[08:37] <godbyk> For instance, do we want to allow the title to wrap onto two lines if it's longer?  Or do we want to scale it down to fit into the width available?
[08:37] <thorwil> godbyk: scale
[08:39] <godbyk> how shall we handle right-to-left languages?
[08:39] <godbyk> do we scale just the title text or the graphics, too, when the text is longer than the english version?
[08:39] <thorwil> godbyk: guess right-to-left requires flipping the layout
[08:39] <godbyk> there's a nice balance in your design right now.  but when we start scaling things, we'll have to figure out how to maintain that balance.
[08:40] <thorwil> godbyk: yes, i actually doubt you can do that automated
[08:41] <godbyk> If you can codify the ideas behind it, we can automate it. :-)
[08:41] <thorwil> as in, writing a system that gets it right would be more work than doing it manually
[08:41] <godbyk> btw, did you adjust the tracking/letterspacing of the title? when I used the same font size in latex, the title was much longer.
[08:41] <thorwil> yes, i did
[08:41] <thorwil> kerning, actually
[08:42] <godbyk> figures!
[08:43] <godbyk> unless you want to kern each translated title individually, we probably won't have that on our title page. :(
[08:45] <godbyk> thorwil: right now everything is 'pinned' to the page at absolute (x,y) coordinates.
[08:45] <godbyk> But if we have, say "Second edition" that should be positioned relative to the title's textbox.
[08:46] <godbyk> Can you tell me what kind of relations there are? What values are relative, which are constant/absolute?
[08:46] <thorwil> godbyk: the problem is visual alignment
[08:47] <thorwil> godbyk: "Second Edition" is left aligned with the title, but actually farther right because of the G shape
[08:47] <godbyk> right.. it won't be perfect, but I think we can get it pretty good by saying things like, "I want 10pt of space between the bottom of the icons row and the top of the title text," for instance.
[08:48] <godbyk> I'm going to try to set up the design so that it can be tweaked on a per-language basis (for when/if we get to it).
[08:49] <godbyk> but we should figure out some 'mostly okay' starting values that can work with the majority of the translations.
[08:49] <thorwil> godbyk: did you have a look at the layout layers?
[08:49] <humphreybc> godbyk check out the front wiki page
[08:50] <godbyk> then we can tweak the english one to make sure it looks perfect and also tweak the worst-looking translations.
[08:50] <godbyk> thorwil: I did, yes, but I couldn't which values you considered important.
[08:51] <godbyk> humphreybc: cool
[08:51] <humphreybc> looks good now :P
[08:52] <thorwil> godbyk: that reminds me that i actually don't want to be listed as artwork team lead
[08:52] <godbyk> thorwil: trying to escape blame?  ;-)
[08:54] <humphreybc> lol
[08:56] <thorwil> godbyk: kinda. i have nothing to do with the wiki header and the website. and there is not much of a team; i surely don't lead you ;)
[08:57] <humphreybc> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1171112&l=48b3e56933&id=1171655966
[08:57] <godbyk> thorwil: fair enough.  should we dissolve the notion of an 'artwork team' and just credit the individuals with their contributions?
[08:57] <thorwil> godbyk: yes, please
[08:57] <godbyk> so thorwil gets credited with the cover design and new logo
[08:57] <godbyk> I'll take the blame for the interior design
[08:57] <godbyk> whowever's been busy on the website gets the credit there.
[08:57] <godbyk> sounds like a plan to me!
[08:58] <humphreybc> and i take blame for the failure of the whole project ;P
[08:58] <nisshh> yes!
[08:58] <nisshh> muhahaha
[08:58] <nisshh> no seriously what are you talking about
[08:58] <godbyk> I'm also going to be redesigning the 'credits/contributions' chapter in the manual.  make it more of a colophon and have it look a bit more interesting.
[08:58] <thorwil> godbyk: how to call mission-statement/audience/tone/message thing? design-briefing?
[08:59] <godbyk> thorwil: hmm.. that sounds good to me.
[08:59] <godbyk> (not coming up with anything better at the moment!)
[08:59] <thorwil> godbyk: want the credit for that ;)
[08:59] <godbyk> lol, nope, I'll leave that one for you. :)
[08:59] <humphreybc> lol
[09:00] <nisshh> humphreybc: if you test the new website in chrome, i can test it in firefox, how is that?
[09:00] <thorwil> godbyk: yes, (I) want the credit for that ;)
[09:00] <humphreybc> i've already tested it out in chrome and firefox :)
[09:00] <humphreybc> looks good
[09:00] <humphreybc> but we need testing in IE6, 7 and 8
[09:00] <humphreybc> and Opera
[09:00] <humphreybc> and Safari
[09:00] <godbyk> isn't there a site where you can submit the url and they'll email screenshots of what it looks like in all these browsers?
[09:01] <humphreybc> that sounds awesome
[09:01] <thorwil> there are services like that, but a free one?
[09:02] <godbyk> maybe browsershots.org?
[09:02] <godbyk> (waiting for it to load)
[09:02] <thorwil> godbyk: anyway, the layout. vertical golden ratio to place the middle of the CoF (need the circle, can't use bounding box with the poijnter in it)
[09:03] <godbyk> okay, that one's easy.
[09:03] <thorwil> godbyk: another golden section of the larger part of the previous to set the vertical center of the wave-of-friends
[09:03] <godbyk> okay
[09:04] <godbyk> how do you get the vertical positions of the row of icons and the title and the edition?
[09:04] <thorwil> godbyk: do you happen to know the latin->english terms for the parts of a golden section?
[09:04] <nisshh> humphreybc: which version of firefox have you tested it in because im using ff 3.6 and its kinda screwed up
[09:04] <humphreybc> i think 3.6?
[09:04] <godbyk> the parts of a golden section?  there are terms for that?  it's just a ratio or continued fraction.
[09:05] <nisshh> hmmm, strange that it is fine for you but messed up for me
[09:05] <godbyk> thorwil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio refers to the longer segment as 'a' and the shorter as 'b', if that helps any.
[09:06] <thorwil> godbyk: in german there's Major and Minor. would think could be the same in english, but found no mention
[09:07] <godbyk> Ah, you can use those terms if you like.  The exist in English, too.
[09:07] <godbyk> They're the same words for Latin and English.
[09:08] <nisshh> humphreybc: can you open up the file under /website/index.html and see if any of the text or border elements are messed up?
[09:09] <thorwil> godbyk: vertical position of icons ... top is oriented towards top of the CoF, but with visual compensation
[09:09] <godbyk> that 'visual compensation' thing is gonna be a pain. :)
[09:09] <godbyk> I'll just add a variable in there that we can tweak for the compensation aspect.
[09:09] <thorwil> godbyk: icon row bottom happens to be just a tad below the major of the page height
[09:10] <godbyk> a feature inkscape should have: allowing me to put guidelines on a layer (so I can selectively turn them on or off easily)
[09:12] <godbyk> are the icons centered vertically with respect to each other, top-aligned, bottom-aligned, or just visually aligned on an individual basis?
[09:12] <thorwil> godbyk: visually aligned on an individual basis
[09:12] <thorwil> on both axis
[09:12] <humphreybc> for a laff, check out the latest post: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/
[09:12] <godbyk> somehow I knew you were going to say that! :)
[09:13] <thorwil> godbyk: btw, i messed up title_page_a4.svg a bit. height are not correct
[09:13] <nisshh> hehe
[09:15] <godbyk> thorwil: no worries. if you fix it in your bzr branch, I'll grab the latest updates later.
[09:16] <godbyk> thorwil: can you explain the vertical spacing for the title text and edition text?
[09:18] <thorwil> godbyk: you won't be happy. it's balanced with the space between title and icons, taking the descender of the g of Getting into account
[09:18] <godbyk> Of course it is.  :)
[09:19] <godbyk> Okay, I think the covers all the vertical positions.. how about horizontal?
[09:19] <godbyk> edge of paper to the left edge (or center or whatever) of the CoF?
[09:20] <thorwil> godbyk: look at the blue lines in the layout layer
[09:20] <godbyk> I see them
[09:21] <thorwil> godbyk: the WoF is placed such that it is cut on the edge in a nice way. then i aligned things with the dots
[09:21] <thorwil> (no heads are severed)
[09:22] <godbyk> heh
[09:23] <godbyk> Well, I don't think I'll be able to orchestrate it based on that.
[09:23] <godbyk> Is it okay if the CoF is just x pt from the left edge and everything else follows from that?
[09:23] <godbyk> And we set some right margin as well?
[09:24] <thorwil> godbyk: why? you do have absolute values here
[09:25] <thorwil> godbyk: only on the rigth, aligning to the stem of the 4 is mean
[09:25] <thorwil> godbyk: but i'm really starting to think that we would be better off working with SVGs per translation
[09:26] <godbyk> Well, if the CoF band has a hard left edge that I can set at the edge of the paper and let it bleed off the right edge, then that's okay.
[09:26] <godbyk> you think so?
[09:26] <godbyk> all 50 of 'em?
[09:26] <godbyk> I'm happy to let you do it, if you want. :-)
[09:27] <thorwil> godbyk: either someone takes care of each single one, or they will look awful
[09:28] <godbyk> I don't know that they'll look *awful*, but they won't look great.
[09:28] <humphreybc> they have to look great ;)
[09:28] <godbyk> humphreybc: you're a right bastard!  <grin>
[09:28] <humphreybc> pretty much :)
[09:29] <humphreybc> did you see my latest omgubuntu post? lol
[09:29] <godbyk> not yet. chrome keeps freaking out on that site.
[09:29] <godbyk> just spins with the site half-drawn until it times out and wants me to kill the tab.
[09:30] <godbyk> lemme load firefox
[09:30] <godbyk> firefox always works. :)
[09:30] <humphreybc> lol
[09:30] <godbyk> I don't have time right now to hand-tune each cover page, but if someone else wants to, I can sure write code to handle it.
[09:30] <thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: if we can get translators to copy the 2 SVGs and put in the translated strings, it would be feasible, i think
[09:31] <godbyk> thorwil: how about if I just get you the translated strings?
[09:31] <godbyk> (the translators have to translate them in the .tex files already)
[09:32] <thorwil> godbyk: only if you can generate the SVGs via string replacement
[09:32] <godbyk> and *I* get accused of being lazy!  <grin>
[09:33] <thorwil> see, with such a batch, cutting out every little bit means a huge gain
[09:33] <thorwil> godbyk: we should split l-to-r and r-to-l languages
[09:33] <godbyk> I hear ya.
[09:34] <godbyk> That's why I was hoping we could program it in LaTeX and get most of the way there for free.
[09:34] <thorwil> is it common to mirror page layout for those?
[09:34] <godbyk> Generally, I think that's true.
[09:34] <godbyk> Though I really have no idea.  I'm have to figure that out soon, too, so I can fix the interior design to accommodate RTL languages.
[09:35] <thorwil> snippet from the SVG: y="441.80502">Getting Started with Ubuntu .</tspan></text>
[09:36] <thorwil> encoding="UTF-8"
[09:36] <godbyk> right.
[09:36] <godbyk> I could probably write a script to translate that.
[09:36] <godbyk> (once the translators have finished translating the strings required.)
[09:37] <godbyk> I just updated the title of the manual yesterday or the day before.
[09:37] <godbyk> I'm not sure if dutchie has pushed a new translation template yet.
[09:41] <thorwil> godbyk: afaics the only issue with search-and-replace in the SVG would be to make sure its . and not 10.04
[09:41] <thorwil> godbyk: oh, do we have languages where we need another font?
[09:41] <godbyk> Right.
[09:41] <godbyk> Yes. Yes, we do.
[09:41] <godbyk> quite a few of them actually.
[09:43] <thorwil> the font definitions in SVG are a bit odd
[09:43] <godbyk> great.
[09:43] <godbyk> also, it'll have to support opentype tags, too.
[09:43] <godbyk> so we can tell it what language to use, what script to use, etc.
[09:44] <godbyk> I was raked over the coals by one of the Telugu translators because nothing looked right (with the font I'd selected for Telugu).
[09:44] <thorwil> godbyk: aside of font-style, font-weight and a few others, there's font-family:Linux Biolinum O;-inkscape-font-specification:Linux Biolinum O
[09:45] <godbyk> Turns out that if you forget to tell the font that you're typesetting things in Telugu, it moves glyphs around on you.
[09:46] <godbyk> yeah, we'll need to set the language and script, too.
[09:46] <thorwil> guess i should save plain svg
[09:48] <godbyk> hopefully it doesn't lose the kerning and tracking then.
[09:48]  * godbyk doesn't know what features svg supports.
[09:51] <humphreybc> it's really cold
[09:51] <godbyk> It's warming up here, finally
[09:52] <humphreybc> it's 5 degrees
[09:52] <nisshh> thats damn cold
[09:53] <humphreybc> i know :(
[09:53] <godbyk> .That's about what it is here.
[09:53] <godbyk> That's a LOT warmer than it has been.
[09:53] <humphreybc> celcius?
[09:53] <godbyk> yep
[09:53] <nisshh> meh its like 18 degreees here
[09:53] <humphreybc> shutup ryan :P
[09:53] <nisshh> hehe
[09:53] <godbyk> heh
[09:54] <humphreybc> i'm hungry
[09:54] <godbyk> It's supposed to get up to 10 degrees C tomorrow.  It's going to be awesome!
[09:54] <nisshh> arrhg stop it! your making me hungry!
[09:54] <godbyk> Unfortunately it's supposed to be back to 0 on Saturday.
[09:54] <humphreybc> lol
[09:55] <humphreybc> might get a burger..
[09:55] <nisshh> wow thats alot of up and down
[09:55] <humphreybc> what do i need to do?
[09:55] <nisshh> godbyk = usa?
[09:55] <humphreybc> i've got another hour or so before i should hit the sack
[09:55] <godbyk> well, 10 is the high for the week.. it's been around 7 every other day this week so far.
[09:55] <godbyk> nisshh: yeah.
[09:56] <nisshh> godbyk: its winter there right?
[09:56] <godbyk> nisshh: yep.. just about spring, though.  (finally!)
[09:56] <nisshh> hehe
[09:56] <nisshh> its end of summer here
[09:56] <humphreybc> godbyk, pfft, like you're ever allowed outside
[09:56] <nisshh> just starting to get cold
[09:57] <nisshh> lol
[09:57] <godbyk> humphreybc: heh.. no doubt
[10:00] <godbyk> okay, well, I'm off to bed.  I'll see you guys later!
[10:01] <nisshh> cya dude
[10:01] <thorwil> cya
[10:04] <thorwil> ouch, saving plain svg means losing layers
[10:04] <humphreybc> chow kevin
[10:15] <dutchie> humphreybc: what was that thing you wanted me to do?
[10:21] <humphreybc> dutchie: set up a form and stuff, read the logs... i'll tell you in a sec. eating a burger :D
[10:21] <dutchie> humphreybc: on ubuntu-manual.org?
[10:22] <humphreybc> yeah using google spreadsheet
[10:26] <dutchie> using google spreadsheet?
[10:26] <dutchie> I could probably throw together a django app or some such
[10:27] <humphreybc> dutchie, so here's the dela
[10:27] <humphreybc> deal*
[10:27] <humphreybc> next week we're going to do some wide scale testing with omgubuntu readers
[10:27] <humphreybc> instead of having them report bugs on launchpad, we want to simplify stuff by having them complete a form somewhere
[10:28] <dutchie> (have to go in 10 mins)
[10:28] <humphreybc> then we can take the results and do our own triaging, then put them on launchpad
[10:28] <humphreybc> kk
[10:28] <humphreybc> so basically we want the form to have fields for: language, page number, revision number, bug type*, description of the problem and then "Suggest a solution"
[10:28] <dutchie> my instinct would be to stick the results in a sqlite table or something, not had much experience with the google docs api
[10:28] <humphreybc> yeah so google spreadsheet has a form engine
[10:29] <humphreybc> basically every form entry goes into a spreadsheet
[10:29] <humphreybc> like, into a row
[10:29] <humphreybc> godbyk enabled google apps for ubuntu-manual.org
[10:29] <humphreybc> so we should be able to use it already
[10:29] <humphreybc> if you could set up the form at bugs.ubuntu-manual.org that would be cool
[10:30] <humphreybc> as for the bug type, this will be a dropdown combo box with pre-defined bug types
[10:30] <humphreybc> such as: Grammar/Spelling, Doesn't make sense, Factual error, Inconsistency etc as options
[10:31] <humphreybc> the thing will run for a week from the 22nd to the 29th march
[10:31] <humphreybc> so that's next week
[10:31] <humphreybc> got all that?
[10:31] <dutchie> got a linky for info on the form engine?
[10:31] <humphreybc> nope
[10:32] <humphreybc> :)
[10:32] <humphreybc> yep: http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=87809
[10:33] <humphreybc> http://docs.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=15115
[10:33] <humphreybc> i'm sure you'll have it set up in like 20 minutes
[10:33] <dutchie> erm, yeah ;)
[10:34] <humphreybc> :)
[10:35] <dutchie> I'll have another look when I've got a proper internet connection
[10:35] <humphreybc> cool
[10:35] <humphreybc> so basically you've got until saturday
[10:35] <humphreybc> and then you can show us at the meeting :)
[10:36] <humphreybc> also dutchie
[10:37] <humphreybc> i've re-done the wiki
[10:37] <dutchie> I did see a bit
[10:37] <humphreybc> there's now a "How you can help" page where a tonne of stuff is going to be merged
[10:37] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/contributions
[10:37] <dutchie> you have 30 seconds to convince me this is more important than my maths lesson
[10:37] <humphreybc> the idea is that you hit the link on what you're interested in and it takes you to instructions
[10:37] <humphreybc> can you please do the instructions for the translations
[10:38] <dutchie> will do
[10:38] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/translators
[10:38] <humphreybc> there's the page
[10:38] <humphreybc> thanks!
[10:38] <dutchie> right, I'm off then
[10:38] <humphreybc> kk
[10:38] <humphreybc> chow
[12:06] <ubuntujenkins> hello again all
[12:58] <daker> hi @all
[13:01] <ubuntujenkins> hello daker
[13:02] <daker> fine ?
[13:02] <ubuntujenkins> yes I am great, yourself?
[13:04] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: as far as you know is everything in place for quickshot?
[13:04] <daker> ubuntujenkins, fine :)
[13:05] <ubuntujenkins> thats good
[13:19] <daker> see you later
[13:19] <daker> i'll be back
[13:36] <thorwil> i guess with right-to-left languages, the mouse pointer would still be an arrow to top left?
[15:02] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, no, not yet. I had nearly zero free time last week.
[15:02] <Red_HamsterX> I'll be working on it today after taking a call in a few minutes.
[15:02] <Red_HamsterX> +comma
[16:35] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, whenever you have time, take a look at my changes in quickshot. It uses progress bars now for long operations without freezing the gui
[16:59] <ubuntujenkins> thats cool Red_HamsterX, titeuf_87 I will have a look now
[17:01] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, it's something simple, but at least now the gui doesn't freeze anymore
[17:05] <ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: its just what it needs, can we add one that appears after the quickshot user presses the first next button?
[17:06] <titeuf_87> what does it do then that is slow?
[17:07] <ubuntujenkins> detects which graphics driver that is in use, if it finds a card that we don't support it displays a different screen
[17:08] <titeuf_87> ah right, I'll add it there too
[17:08] <ubuntujenkins> thanks, should quickshot detected the language in use and diplayed it in the screenshot window?
[17:09] <titeuf_87> it does so now too, or at least I think it does, still need to test that with other languages
[17:09] <ubuntujenkins> it doesn't work I gave it a test
[17:10] <titeuf_87> does it crash there? Or you can still use it normally?
[17:10] <ubuntujenkins> I logged in with english gb and it showd english gb. I logged out changed it to "south african" logged back in. and went through the motions and south africa english wasn't shown.
[17:11] <ubuntujenkins> the $LANG varablie had changed though
[17:11] <ubuntujenkins> you can use it normally
[17:11] <titeuf_87> Ah I didn't use that but the locale module in python. I'll take a look at that too
[17:12] <ubuntujenkins> Thank you, I will be in and out all evening so ping me and I will get back to you asap
[17:13] <titeuf_87> ok :)
[18:20] <daker> godbyk, !!
[18:23] <daker> godbyk,
[18:23] <daker> daker@daker-laptop:~/ubuntu-manual$ bzr pull
[18:23] <daker> Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
[18:23] <daker> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the missing command to see how.
[18:23] <daker> Use the merge command to reconcile them.
[18:30] <dutchie> daker: you've made commits that haven't been pushed, while other people pushed their commits
[19:28] <dutchie> lo humphreybc
[19:30] <humphreybc> hiya
[19:30] <humphreybc> it's freakin' early
[19:30] <humphreybc> and i haven't had a shower yet because i've run out of towels
[19:31] <humphreybc> godbyk why are all the chapter and section links broken?
[19:31] <dutchie> I'm not sure if that Google Spreadsheet -> form thing is ideal
[19:31] <humphreybc> no?
[19:31] <humphreybc> howcome?
[19:32] <godbyk-android> I didn't know they were broken. Can you explain more?
[19:32] <dutchie> afaict, it's for emailing it to people, rather than producing web forms
[19:32] <dutchie> only had a brief look at it though
[19:33] <godbyk-android> I'll be back in 30 minutes...going to take a shower, too.
[19:35] <humphreybc> dutchie: hmm okay. if it doesn't work you may have to work out something else
[19:35] <dutchie> when did it need to be done by again?
[19:37] <humphreybc> saturday?
[19:40] <cjohnston> humphreybc: mind a PM?
[19:41] <humphreybc> cjohnston: sure
[19:41] <humphreybc> go for it
[19:45] <humphreybc> hey dutchie
[19:45] <humphreybc> jono was just saying to me that there is something that already exists with LP
[19:45] <humphreybc> you can have a form be filled in, then get sent to LP and it does a duplicate search for you, then reports the bug
[19:55] <humphreybc> godbyk, build pauses on
[19:55] <humphreybc> include{installation/installation}
[19:55] <humphreybc> l.181 A new \dialog will appear...
[19:55] <humphreybc> l.185 ...the new user can be changed in the \dialog{Users Settings}
[19:56] <humphreybc> l.191 \item A ccount type:
[19:56] <humphreybc> and l.192
[20:07] <godbyk-android> Dialog isn't a command. Try \window.
[20:10] <godbyk> Okay, back at my computer now.
[20:11] <godbyk> dutchie: Have we updated the pot recently?
[20:12] <dutchie> no
[20:12] <dutchie> I was avoiding doing it until bug 535731 was fixed
[20:12] <manualbot`> Launchpad bug 535731 in widelands "Masking doesn't work on Mac" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535731
[20:12] <dutchie> erm, not that one
[20:12] <humphreybc> lol
[20:12] <dutchie> bug 535371
[20:12] <manualbot`> Launchpad bug 535371 in ubuntu "Translations keep disappearing" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535371
[20:15] <humphreybc> dutchie: i don't think that's going to be fixed because it's not a bug
[20:16] <humphreybc> rosetta was never really designed for this sort of thing
[20:16] <humphreybc> godbyk, i just pushed some changes, didn't fix the make errors. you can do that if you like :P
[20:16] <dutchie> humphreybc: we can hope
[20:16] <humphreybc> heh
[20:16] <humphreybc> hey, it's lucid beta today
[20:16] <dutchie> also, whitespace changes should probably be dealt with better
[20:17] <godbyk> yeah, it seems like it's not good at handling paragraphs.
[20:17] <humphreybc> anyone know how to select all of a particular label in gmail?
[20:19] <godbyk> humphreybc: just go to that label, then select all.
[20:21] <humphreybc> be back in a sec, going to have a shower before the other flatmates get in and use up the hot water
[20:22] <godbyk> k
[20:47] <humphreybc> back
[20:48] <humphreybc> i'm going to whip up some buttons for the wiki help thing, so instead of having "click here" there will be a big button
[20:49] <humphreybc> just trying to think of the best wording
[20:49] <humphreybc> "Find out more about being an Author" is a bit too long
[20:55] <humphreybc> Think I'll go with "Become an Author"
[21:07] <humphreybc> woohoo! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/contributions
[21:09] <humphreybc> dutchie, could you write up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/translators as soon as you have a minute?
[21:13] <dutchie> oh yeah, forgot about that ;)
[21:14] <humphreybc> he
[21:14] <humphreybc> I've done all the other ones
[21:14] <humphreybc> well, godbyk needs to do the latex section for the authors/editors
[21:15] <humphreybc> i made some pretty colourful buttons
[21:15] <humphreybc> don't they look nice?
[21:17] <godbyk> humphreybc: not bad. though now you need to fix the formatting of the step-by-step instructions. :)
[21:17] <humphreybc> what's wrong with the formatting?
[21:18] <godbyk> some things are numbered lists, others are fake numbered lists, others are "Step 1".. there's no consistency.
[21:18] <godbyk> where do you want me to put the latex instructions?
[21:18] <humphreybc> at the bottom
[21:18] <humphreybc> underneath the branch instructions. it should be in order
[21:23] <humphreybc> where it says "coming soon..." at the bottom: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors
[21:25] <dutchie> humphreybc: done
[21:25] <humphreybc> mint!
[21:26] <dutchie> if you'd like it longer, I can do
[21:28] <humphreybc> yeah
[21:28] <humphreybc> look at that link i posted just up above
[21:28] <humphreybc> if you could make it more steppy and use hyperlinks instead of pasting the URLs that would be cooler
[21:29] <humphreybc> make it *really* easy, assume the translator knows nothing
[21:29] <humphreybc> you can copy and paste the Launchpad account stuff from the authors page
[21:35] <godbyk> humphreybc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors I've added the TeX Live instructions
[21:35] <ubuntujenkins> evening all
[21:35] <titeuf_87> hey ubuntujenkins
[21:35] <ubuntujenkins> hello titeuf_87
[21:36] <humphreybc> godbyk, awesome
[21:36] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, can you check if you have python-pybabel installed?
[21:36] <ubuntujenkins> sure
[21:37]  * dutchie bites the bullet and updates the translations
[21:37] <dutchie> 136 translated messages, 33 fuzzy translations, 1319 untranslated messages.
[21:37] <humphreybc> if you could add in something that points them to the style guide, or lets them download the style guide to read, that would be cool. by style guide I mean your PDF. I can create a button for you if you want it to stand out
[21:37] <dutchie> it's not looking good so far
[21:37] <humphreybc> dutchie: eek
[21:37] <humphreybc> well, writing freeze is coming up..
[21:37] <ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: it is now
[21:38] <godbyk> k
[21:38] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, quickshot will now crash when using Afrikaans as language normally. For whatever reason babel doesn't seem to support it (haven't looked too much into it yet)
[21:38]  * humphreybc adds the tools collage image to the front page
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87:  ok I just used Afrikaans at random. does it work with other languages?
[21:40] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, it does with English and Dutch, maybe some other languages that are broken too
[21:40] <ubuntujenkins> ok I will have a go
[21:42] <humphreybc> hmm.. "Get involved" or "How you can help us" ?
[21:43] <dutchie> get involved
[21:43] <dutchie> more active
[21:43] <humphreybc> sweet
[21:48] <ubuntujenkins> titeuf_87: I think i need something else installed as I have tried 6 languages including Netherlands (A***)
[21:48] <ubuntujenkins> I can't remember the exact name
[21:49] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins, yeah, I'll have to find another way to retrieve the language. I know how to get the short code (like en_US and such), but not how to get a "nice" name to show the user
[21:50] <ubuntujenkins> I do like the "nice" name i was impressed. I have a list somewhere of the nice name equivilents for abotu 45 of our languages
[21:51] <titeuf_87> well I guess I could include the whole list in quickshot itself, would take away some troubles then
[21:51] <ubuntujenkins> i will have ahunt for it
[21:51] <titeuf_87> no need for it, I have it somewhere here too
[21:52] <ubuntujenkins> o well you can have what i ahve anyway :-) http://paste.ubuntu.com/396951/
[21:53]  * ubuntujenkins tries to finish writing so he can do quickshot work
[21:53] <ubuntujenkins> quickshot is so fun
[21:54] <humphreybc> glad you enjoy it!
[21:55] <ubuntujenkins> it suprising how much python I have learnt python docs now make some sense
[21:56] <dutchie> best way to learn a language is to write something in it
[21:56] <ubuntujenkins> I haven't written much of it but ic an fix bugs on some parts
[22:25] <humphreybc> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/ubuntu-manual-project-wiki-gets.html
[22:25] <humphreybc> :)
[22:25] <ubuntujenkins> nice
[22:33]  * humphreybc needs to get going to his lecture
[22:35] <ubuntujenkins> have fun :-)
[22:58] <ubuntujenkins> Just finishing off the the brasero section for what legal reason would you want to copy a disc
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> days_of_ruin:just got the e-mail how would you like to help with quickshot?
[23:12] <days_of_ruin> yeah
[23:13] <days_of_ruin> I would like to help with OpenShot
[23:13] <ubuntujenkins> what are your skills all help is welcome
[23:13] <days_of_ruin> I know a lot about pyGtk
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> thats good we are not linked with openshot, it appears that is a differnet projects
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> you are welcome to help with quickshot
[23:14] <days_of_ruin> errr quickshot, I always get the confused
[23:14] <days_of_ruin> :P
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> no problem
[23:15] <ubuntujenkins> I have just approved you, if you get the current branch and give it ago you can get it by doing bzr branch lp:quickshot
[23:15] <days_of_ruin> ok, thanks
[23:16] <ubuntujenkins> We are using quickly so to run the project, change to the directory and do quiclky run -r
[23:16] <ubuntujenkins> *quickly run -r
[23:16] <ubuntujenkins> see what you think
[23:17] <ubuntujenkins> I have loads of bits to do tomorrow to bring it in with gnoem hig
[23:19]  * ubuntujenkins needs to update the quickshot wiki
[23:19]  * nisshh only got 4 hours sleep lsat night
[23:20] <ubuntujenkins> sounds like my sunday night
[23:20] <nisshh> hehe
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> I spent the night doing quickshot
[23:31] <ubuntujenkins> days_of_ruin: what do you think?
[23:33] <nisshh> get much hacking done?
[23:34] <ubuntujenkins> some bugs fixed and a little tinkering, did more manual writing as well. Never as much as I would like.
[23:41] <nisshh> no that you always dont get everything you want done
[23:41] <nisshh> never happens
[23:42] <ubuntujenkins> thats true I should be in bed trying to finish my manual work
[23:51] <nisshh> hehe anyway iv got to go to college now cyas later
[23:56] <days_of_ruin> ubuntujenkins, Indenting is supposed to be done with 4 spaces right?
[23:56] <ubuntujenkins> yes which file is that mistake done in? It may have been my when i first started
[23:57] <days_of_ruin> I have found a few files with tabs in them, in quickly/lib I'll fix them.
[23:57] <ubuntujenkins> hang on
[23:58] <ubuntujenkins> do you mean quickshot/lib?
[23:58] <days_of_ruin> doh! yeah, thats what i mean
[23:58] <days_of_ruin> :P
[23:58] <ubuntujenkins> thats ok then feel free
[23:58] <ubuntujenkins> I didn't write that bit :-)
[23:59]  * ubuntujenkins is glad i din't make a mistake for a change :-)