[01:34] <coz_> would any of you know  how to either extract the svg icon from this file   http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/icon.sh  or to replace the one that it creates with another svg file?
[01:37] <knome> coz_, find printf "
[01:37] <knome> start copying after the quotes
[01:37] <coz_> knome,  ok  and stop at which point?
[01:38] <knome> then go to near finish and find </svg>
[01:38] <knome> and copy the closing </svg> tag as well
[01:38] <coz_> ok and then save that to an xml file?
[01:38] <knome> then save that as something.svg
[01:39] <coz_> mm wont open
[01:39] <knome> says what?
[01:39] <coz_> let me try I think I made a mistake
[01:39] <knome> oh right :P
[01:39] <knome> no you didn't
[01:40] <knome> replace \" with "
[01:40] <knome> every occurrence
[01:41] <coz_> knome,  you mean every  \ should be removed?
[01:43] <knome> i'm not sure if EVERY \ should be removed. just replace \" with "
[01:47] <coz_> knome,  ok I removed all \'s and it opened
[01:49] <knome> coz_, okay. have fun.
[01:49] <coz_> thanks
[04:11] <uvacav> anyone know when the rest of the purple icons are dropping?
[10:32] <kwwii> w00t, I am alive again
[10:36] <thorwil> kwwii: full on resurrection, you don't happen to be a zombie or leech now? what caused your death, anyway?
[10:46] <kwwii> thorwil: horrible headaches the last two days
[10:46] <kwwii> thorwil: mainly spent moaning, hurting and puking
[10:47] <kwwii> but now I can actually think again
[10:51]  * thorwil listened to ivanka on the uk podcast
[11:09] <zacbarton> anyone know how to style/access the nautilus info bar (cd/dvd creator "drag or copy etc") in gtkrc
[11:26] <zacbarton> found it. its widget "*.nautilus-extra-view-widget" in-case anyone else needs it
[11:55] <zniavre> zacbarton,  it's more  as > style "nautilus-sidebar"
[11:55] <zniavre> widget_class "*Nautilus*Places*Sidebar*"        style "nautilus-sidebar"
[11:55] <zniavre> widget_class "*Nautilus*Side*.GtkWidget"        style "nautilus-sidebar"
[12:01] <zniavre> nautilus-extra-view-widget is for the search thing into nautilus i guess
[12:06] <zniavre> http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/3033/captureqv.png
[13:10] <zacbarton> zniavre: ta for the follow up. it looks like bg[NORMAL] for nautilus-extra-view-widget is used in the search results and also the info bar (cd/dvd burn, this media contains photos etc)
[13:14] <zniavre> zacbarton,  i was wrong cause my bad english sorry
[13:14] <zacbarton> no problems at all mate :-)
[13:15] <zniavre> i believed you wanted to colorize the sidepanel in  nautilus
[13:26] <dashua> zacbarton, style "nautilus-sidebar"  {GtkTreeView::even_row_color = @bg_color (whatever color you want it)}
[13:26] <zacbarton> dashua: great ta mate
[13:26] <dashua> Hi the classes too
[13:27] <dashua> If you Place the same color too
[13:27] <dashua> widget_class "*Nautilus*Places*Sidebar*"    	style "nautilus-sidebar"
[13:27] <dashua> widget_class "*Nautilus*Side*.GtkWidget"    	style "nautilus-sidebar"
[13:27] <dashua> Places*
[13:27] <dashua> Hit the classes*
[13:28] <zacbarton> yep that makes sense
[13:28] <kwwii> vish: hey, if you find duplicates of the window decoration button bug mark them as duplicates
[13:28] <kwwii> hi dashua
[13:28] <dashua> kwwii, Hey man
[13:28] <kwwii> dashua: so the new progess bars have been accepted ;-)
[13:28] <dashua> Wow
[13:28] <dashua> Nice
[13:28] <kwwii> dashua: going to push an update later sometime
[13:29] <kwwii> not sure if I'll get to it before I have to catch my plane though
[13:29] <dashua> Ok cool, cleaned up a lot
[13:29] <dashua> We're you able to make a better close icon for Radiance.
[13:29] <dashua> Not that good with icons =/
[13:31] <kwwii> dashua: yeah, I am going to redraw them all
[13:31] <kwwii> which is why it will take a bit longer
[13:31] <dashua> Ok cool, the toughs could use some love too if you're going to use that method.
[13:31] <dashua> Nice
[13:32] <dashua> troughs*
[13:32] <kwwii> yeah, I think in the end we will go with the seperate trough
[13:32] <dashua> Ok good
[13:32] <kwwii> although ideally we would just fix compiz
[13:32] <dashua> True
[13:32] <dashua> That metacity patch seems to work good
[13:32] <kwwii> I don't like the idea of fixing this with a hack which will break on all systems when the font-size is changed
[13:32] <dashua> Did you check that video out?
[13:32] <dashua> Yeah
[13:33] <kwwii> video?
[13:33] <dashua> I sent you an email
[13:33] <kwwii> hrm, let me look again
[13:33] <dashua> Demoing the button switches
[13:33] <kwwii> my headaches seem to have erased things
[13:33] <dashua> With Compiz running
[13:33] <dashua> Ha
[13:33] <dashua> Most combos work except for a few
[13:34] <dashua> I like ivanka's idea Max > Min                            Close
[13:34] <dashua> Getting used to this though
[13:36] <kwwii> dashua: interesting, itshows that it works with everything except for windows with just one button
[13:36] <kwwii> dashua: which works fine with just metacity
[13:36] <kwwii> I think there is more and more that says we need to fix compiz
[13:37] <dashua> Yeah
[13:38] <dashua> In essence if there is going to be customization you'll need left and right trough images
[13:38] <dashua> I have that working too
[13:40] <kwwii> well as the metacity was, it worked fine, with all windows except just min and close
[13:42] <dashua> Hopefully a gix for compiz gtk-window-decorator will come
[13:42] <dashua> fix*
[13:44] <kwwii> indeed
[13:44] <kwwii> but I doubt it
[13:44] <kwwii> then again, I would love for someone to prove me wrong ;-)
[13:49] <dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/47653/screenshot_037_5GGA68.png
[13:49] <dashua> It fixes gnome-appearance-preferences except for the menu icon
[14:01] <kwwii> yeah, I wish i could kill the menu icon
[14:01] <kwwii> I guess since we turn it off anyway, i could put the mini-icon back
[14:15] <dashua> That icon is really useless
[14:15] <dashua> I dpn't think I've ever used it.
[14:56] <kwwii> hehe, now you know why i removed  it ;-)
[14:58] <vish> kwwii: re: the win deco bugs , there are a few bugs with variants , mentioning order , should they be duped to the revert to old bug? or do you want them separate?
[14:59] <vish> there was a bug which said the close is too near the file edit menu
[14:59] <kwwii> vish: I think they all need to be dupped to that bug
[14:59] <vish> neat , i'll dup them
[15:01] <vish> kwwii the other bug i mentioned yesterday about the close button being displayed red for the inactive window? it happens only when the visual effects in off , while if the visual effects is on , the inactive window close is greyed :s
[15:02] <vish> it seems the title bar for metacity & compiz vary
[15:05] <kwwii> vish: ouch, that sucks
[15:05] <kwwii> just assign it to me
[15:05] <vish> k..
[17:06] <vish> kwwii: if you are updating the theme , Bug #540973 is a simple change , the gtkrc is throwing xsession errors
[18:28] <unggnu> hi all
[18:29] <unggnu> I have posted a question about the progress bar some time ago and filed a wishlist report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-artwork/+bug/540829
[18:29] <troy_s> unggnu: What is your issue?
[18:30] <unggnu> I have also edited the Plymouth ubuntu-logo.script to test it.
[18:30] <troy_s> unggnu: Erm...
[18:30] <unggnu> troy_s, If it is an option to change the "progress bar"
[18:30] <troy_s> unggnu: So you are suggesting that your solution is better than the provided solution.
[18:31] <unggnu> troy_s, I think so but that's why I am asking :)
[18:31] <unggnu> I just think the current one is misleading, nothing more.
[18:31] <troy_s> unggnu: First, this is mostly a 'general' channel, those sorts of decisions are handled internally at Canonical. This is more of a community channel...
[18:31] <unggnu> ok
[18:31] <troy_s> unggnu: Two... in the end, that is a fundamental design question.
[18:32] <troy_s> unggnu: And could likely take up sixteen to forty pages of mailing list.
[18:32] <troy_s> unggnu: And _still_ not arrive at a 'solution'. ;)
[18:32] <unggnu> Hm, fundamentally? The design stays the same except of the animation
[18:32] <unggnu> yeah, but I guess I know what you mean
[18:32] <troy_s> unggnu: In the end, I am pretty certain that the point is moot. People will adapt or ignore or whatever.
[18:32] <unggnu> Of course the other solution would be that the indicator actually represents the booting process like in earlier versions
[18:33] <troy_s> unggnu: It's all rather irrelevant in the end if you don't tackle the harder question - why.
[18:33] <troy_s> unggnu: What should it do? Why? To whom does that apply?
[18:34] <troy_s> unggnu: None of which are easy questions, and hence most of the time things such as the point you raise go off and die a dusty death in the ethernet shelving.
[18:34] <unggnu> Hm, lol, definitely the artwork channel :D
[18:36] <troy_s> unggnu: Seriously think about those questions though. You can see why things sort of hit a wall at some point.
[18:36] <unggnu> The problem is that the better it gets the more "important" the little things get
[18:36] <troy_s> unggnu: What is better ;)
[18:36] <unggnu> the artwork and boot experience
[18:36] <troy_s> unggnu: It isn't like code. There is no implicit way to format a stanza and have it compile. It is a design decision and ultimately, like it or not, there is no right or wrong answer.
[18:37] <unggnu> For example Windows XP also has a indicator bar which moves around instead of filling up
[18:37] <troy_s> unggnu: Yikes.
[18:37] <troy_s> unggnu: This is computing right? How do you know your oven is ready?
[18:37] <troy_s> unggnu: WindowsXP is _one_ path.
[18:37] <troy_s> unggnu: OSX has another.
[18:37] <unggnu> troy_s, People have certain expectations, so it could be wrong for them
[18:37] <troy_s> unggnu: And all things being equal, perhaps there will be many many more.
[18:37] <troy_s> unggnu: Ahhh there we go. Who?
[18:38] <unggnu> troy_s, yes, but MacOsX has also no progress bar, it is just turning
[18:38] <troy_s> unggnu: So what is your point exactly?
[18:38] <troy_s> unggnu: There are, again, many paths to a workable solution. On some level, it is moot.
[18:39] <unggnu> so in both cases no one would expect a progress representation
[18:39] <troy_s> unggnu: Which there is.
[18:39] <troy_s> unggnu: I'd just suggest that you are approaching this as a 'right / wrong' scenario when in fact it is far more murky. Don't expect much movement on it as those fundamental design decisions are ultimately in Mark's hands.
[18:40] <troy_s> unggnu: You would be equally challenged to suggest changing the desktop wallpaper. ;)
[18:40] <unggnu> troy_s, no, it is fine
[18:40] <troy_s> unggnu: As it is precisely the same sort of issue on some level.
[18:40] <troy_s> unggnu: Fine and not fine.
[18:40] <unggnu> troy_s, but it doesn't mislead people, it just might not be their taste
[18:40] <troy_s> unggnu: I am not misled.
[18:41] <troy_s> unggnu: Are you?
[18:41] <troy_s> unggnu: Are you misled?
[18:41] <unggnu> not by the wallpaper :)
[18:41] <troy_s> unggnu: It's guesswork.
[18:42] <unggnu> maybe I should post a video to make the difference clear :D
[18:42] <troy_s> unggnu: It is perfectly clear to me.
[18:42] <troy_s> unggnu: But the core of your issue isn't clear to you.
[18:42] <unggnu> troy_s, yeah, but you are not everyone :D
[18:42] <troy_s> unggnu: And who is everyone?
[18:42] <unggnu> I suppose it is 42 :D
[18:42] <troy_s> unggnu: It's a moot point again.
[18:42] <troy_s> unggnu: _bingo_
[18:42] <troy_s> unggnu: That is exactly it.
[18:43] <troy_s> unggnu: And, short answer - Mark controls those sorts of things ;)
[18:43] <unggnu> Is there a Mark channel? ;)
[18:44] <unggnu> no, I just wanted a second opinion. :D
[18:44] <troy_s> unggnu: There sure is. One guy lives in it and it is invite only.
[18:44] <troy_s> unggnu: Oh gosh. Don't ask for an opinion. ;)
[18:44] <troy_s> lol
[18:44] <unggnu> and wasn't sure if others were involved
[18:44] <troy_s> unggnu: Practically though, you are aware at absolutely how tricky all of this gets right? For example, did you know that native Mandarin speakers view time equally easily vertically as horizontally?
[18:45] <troy_s> unggnu: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11487292
[18:45] <troy_s> unggnu: Which more or less implies that culture will affect your sense of design / aesthetic.
[18:45] <unggnu> troy_s, Not my fault :D
[18:45] <troy_s> unggnu: (A bit of a no brainer)
[18:45] <troy_s> unggnu: But it begs the larger question that _your_ solution may in fact not be a solution in another contxt.
[18:46] <troy_s> unggnu: And so on and so on and so on.
[18:46] <unggnu> troy_s, interesting, but I still think this cases are not so important
[18:46] <troy_s> unggnu: That is a judgement call. As is the effort currently in front of you.
[18:46] <troy_s> unggnu: And in that respect, especially without tackling the deeper design issues at hand
[18:47] <troy_s> unggnu: BOTH are likely equally valid.
[18:47] <unggnu> troy_s, it is a question of the market
[18:47] <troy_s> unggnu: And within that scope, Mark's decision and the choice of his design team is likely to stand.
[18:47] <troy_s> unggnu: You really need to read what you are typing.
[18:47] <unggnu> the biggest market is the Western World and the others adapt. I mean I am pretty sure you couldn't use a computer without learning some basics
[18:48] <troy_s> unggnu: Wow.
[18:48] <unggnu> troy_s, there is no keyboard with thousand signs
[18:48] <unggnu> so they use phonetics afaik
[18:48] <unggnu> which means you have to adapt
[18:49] <troy_s> unggnu: A guess on a guess on an estimation on a guess. I'll leave it at that.
[18:51] <unggnu> anyway, the medium forms our thinking, at least partly
[18:51] <troy_s> unggnu: More guess.
[18:52] <unggnu> So ... Do you want to prove Socrates?
[18:52] <troy_s> unggnu: I started this off by saying it's a moot point.
[18:52] <troy_s> unggnu: Did I not? :)
[18:53] <troy_s> unggnu: It is, as you said, 42.
[18:53] <troy_s> unggnu: Side note - http://farm1.static.flickr.com/14/17023214_7722c7e5cb.jpg
[18:53] <unggnu> troy_s, Btw. do you know a programming language which is in Madarin?
[18:55] <unggnu> Haha, cool, I suppose touch typing doesn't work there
[18:55] <troy_s> unggnu: LOL
[18:55] <troy_s> unggnu: It really is a tricky question though. As much as we have evolved out of a simple view of design wrapped around Apple and Microsoft, maybe the question is "Should it be?"
[18:56] <unggnu> I know that many things could be done more efficient but we are just used to the old scheme so we stick with it
[18:56] <troy_s> unggnu: And regarding start up, the question is 'What needs to happen during start up for a given audience?'. If you can somehow show that in fact the system isn't entirely locked up (and as the duration gets shorter, this is less of an issue one could speculate), the point would be achieved.
[19:00] <unggnu> I know that the current works. Btw. do you know why the real progress isn't shown? It was possible with older Ubuntu releases.
[19:01] <troy_s> unggnu: Likely tied to plymouth and such.
[19:03] <thorwil> unggnu: "Hm, lol, definitely the artwork channel :D"--this is the artwork channel on troy. much different experience sans
[19:03] <unggnu> :)
[19:05] <troy_s> thorwil: Greetings thorwil
[19:05] <thorwil> unggnu: afaik it was considered unfeasible to give a good estimate on how long it takes. so no way to present a progressbar that fills evenly
[19:05] <thorwil> hi troy_s :)
[19:05] <troy_s> thorwil: The older usplash had guesses too.
[19:05] <unggnu> thx
[19:05] <unggnu> troy_s, but I suppose it has more room (not only five bullets)
[19:06] <troy_s> unggnu: I don't really mind what part of the ocean I am flying over when I am travelling to France.
[19:06] <troy_s> But that's me.
[19:06] <unggnu> It is a long way since Dapper. Dapper had a progress bar and showed which service was started atm :)
[19:06] <troy_s> I just like to know that the plane isn't crashing.
[19:06] <unggnu> troy_s, I am fine with it too as long as it doesn't look like a progress bar :)
[19:08] <troy_s> thorwil: Anything interesting in your parts?
[19:09] <thorwil> troy_s: well, it looks like we have a final title page design for the manual
[19:09] <troy_s> thorwil: Well that's good.
[19:09] <unggnu> Where can I access the manual if I might ask?
[19:10] <troy_s> unggnu: There's no progress bar in it.
[19:10] <unggnu> troy_s, I think I will survive :)
[19:10] <troy_s> unggnu: LOL
[19:11] <unggnu> No, there is help.ubuntu.com, then there is the question mark icon in the panel and maybe there is a real manual for a box edition or shipped computer. That's why I am asking
[19:11] <thorwil> troy_s: funny thing: i offered 3 variations in the last design round. Ben, the project lead wanted a version with dots. i made up my mind and said no. Kevin (latex guy) also said no. Ben chatted with sabdfl, who explained what more or less spaced dots are meant ... and he prefers the dotless version
[19:12] <thorwil> unggnu: the manual isn't done, yet
[19:12] <unggnu> But where would I normally access it
[19:12] <unggnu> that's what I am asking
[19:13] <troy_s> thorwil: Maybe you should go with dots then ;) LOL
[19:13] <thorwil> heh
[19:13] <troy_s> thorwil: Personally, I'd put three people grinning with some front lit flash photography and a progress bar on there. BLAM.
[19:14] <thorwil> unggnu: the project would like to have a PDF on the ubuntu cd, but that's unlikely to happen. at least for the coming release
[19:15] <unggnu> ok, so it is new
[19:15] <unggnu> not just updated
[19:15] <thorwil> yes
[19:15] <thorwil> unggnu: see http://ubuntu-manual.org and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
[19:16] <unggnu> troy_s, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual - hah, it has a progress bar :D
[19:16] <troy_s> unggnu: Damn you!
[19:16] <unggnu> troy_s, you can't run :D
[19:16] <troy_s> unggnu: I'll confess, progress bars make me flop around on the floor in fits.
[19:16] <thorwil> troy_s: if you ever feel depressed due to some quality issues in floss related artwork (oh, i just can't point you to the latest edition of the gnome 3.0 mockup), check http://ugliesttattoos.com/
[19:17] <troy_s> thorwil: Funny aside there I suppose... I got asked to do something for Inked.
[19:18] <unggnu> troy_s, the question is what will you do for them. :D
[19:18] <unggnu> ok, I am off, ciao
[19:18] <unggnu> thx
[19:19] <troy_s> thorwil: That site is hilarious.
[19:20] <thorwil> yes, hilarious, sometimes fucking nasty
[19:21] <troy_s> thorwil: Mr. T is pure woop.
[19:22] <troy_s> thorwil: Man... that's some rich stuff there.
[19:23] <thorwil> yes, true beauty has no boundries (sic)
[19:24] <troy_s> thorwil: The one below that was hilarious.
[19:24] <troy_s> thorwil: I dare say it is so mangled it works perfectly.
[19:26] <thorwil> troy_s: so what's the something you got asked for?
[19:27] <troy_s> thorwil: A little piece of ditty for the site methinks. Wasn't terribly interested so kind of went blam.
[19:28] <thorwil> something to be inked would be more interesting, eh?
[19:28] <troy_s> thorwil: Wow. There are some pretty amazing works on that site.
[19:32] <troy_s> thorwil: OMFG. Someone did the the Amazing Horse tattoo.
[19:32] <troy_s> thorwil: http://ugliesttattoos.com/2010/02/24/forgive-my-singing-tonight-folks-i%e2%80%99m-a-little-horse/
[19:32] <thorwil> it really is an amazing horse
[19:32] <troy_s> thorwil: LOL
[19:33] <troy_s> thorwil: MY WORLD. It is imploding.
[19:33] <troy_s> thorwil: I so need an Amazing Horse t-shirt.
[19:35] <thorwil> better say no to the horse pop, though
[19:35] <troy_s> lol
[21:43] <Cimi> zniavre, it seems to work here
[21:46] <zniavre> Cimi,  with xchat too ?
[21:46] <Cimi> yep
[21:46] <Cimi> it is subtle
[21:48] <zniavre> http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2518/capture3of.png  > check here > nautilus desktop menu with separtor sets to be "white"
[21:49] <zniavre> no this shot is xchat sorry
[21:50] <zniavre> http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/301/capture2sc.png  in this one it's nautilus menu
[21:50] <zniavre> we can see easily differences of separator
[21:56] <Cimi> looks like you have something wrong in your gtkrc matches
[21:59] <zniavre> mmm
[22:05] <zniavre> http://paste.ubuntu-fr-secours.org/src-91819  i can not see where
[22:05] <zniavre> if you hav a 30sec to check it
[22:05] <zniavre> :o)
[22:27] <kwwii> vish: thanks for that, I'll be sure to change it
[22:39] <Cimi> zniavre, yeah it seems a problem in matching, not sure how to fix it
[23:03]  * kwwii gets a full 10 days (in a row!) at home