[00:00] <crimsun> would love*
[00:00] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, that might be xul 1.9.2 breakage (assuming it worked previously)
[00:00] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, well, there is a copy command, I can only assume that it is supposed to work
[00:00] <rickspencer3> I'm logging a bug now, I'll bet it's been reported
[00:01] <crimsun> does anyone have surround sound on a laptop? There's a significant pulse bug that confounds me because I lack local hw.
[00:02] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, that's strange. i'm able to copy from yelp here :-/
[00:02] <rickspencer3> suckage
[00:03] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, is there any chance the docbook xml in some way commands yelp to not support copy?
[00:03] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, i'm not sure about that, but i can probably find out. are there any pages in particular you have problems with?
[00:04] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, well, the tutorial that I am working on for the quickly ubuntu-application
[00:04] <rickspencer3> if lp ever comes back from attaching all the stuff, I'll make sure the document is attached
[00:04] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[00:05] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, heh
[00:05] <rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/9506
[00:05] <rickspencer3> check out the date
[00:05] <RAOF> Woah!  A four digit bug!
[00:06] <chrisccoulson> lol
[00:06] <chrisccoulson> i don't think i've ever seen one of them before
[00:07] <rickspencer3> I notice seb128 is the one who closed it out
[00:08] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, is there anyway it could be because of how I am running it?
[00:08] <rickspencer3> yelp my_file_path
[00:08] <rickspencer3> ?
[00:09] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure. i'll try that here on a file and see if it makes a difference
[00:09] <rickspencer3> oops
[00:10] <rickspencer3> doesn't work from other programs
[00:10] <rickspencer3> oh the humanity
[00:11] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/540613
[00:11] <rickspencer3> don't know you can do with it
[00:12] <rickspencer3> for Lucid + 1 I am going to use mechanical turk to test and take screenshots for the quickly tutorials ;)
[00:13] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i don't have any issues with copying whichever way i launch it
[00:13] <chrisccoulson> does it fail from a guest session too?
[00:14] <rickspencer3> excellent question
[00:14]  * rickspencer3 tries
[00:16] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, it also does not work in a guest session
[00:18] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, strange. i will have to re-educate myself so i know how the clipboard is meant to work, and then i will think of something else to try
[00:21] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, first, perhaps it is a known issue upstream?
[00:23] <chrisccoulson> i've not managed to find any upstream bugs just yet
[00:28] <rickspencer3> seb128, I'm hitting a bug which you cruelly closed:
[00:28] <rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yelp/+bug/9506
[00:28] <seb128> rickspencer3, did I?
[00:29] <rickspencer3> seb128, look at the #
[00:29] <rickspencer3> you closed it in 2004
[00:29] <seb128> lol
[00:29] <seb128> are you still running warty? ;-)
[00:29] <rickspencer3> I opted to open a new one
[00:29] <rickspencer3> seb128, I was, but I didn't log that bug
[00:29] <rickspencer3> I'm just weirdly having the issue described there now on Lucid
[00:30] <seb128> starting yelp is ridiculisly slow
[00:30] <rickspencer3> seb128, I noticed
[00:30] <rickspencer3> fun when you are writing a tutorial too!
[00:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, wfm
[00:30] <rickspencer3> I know, it only doesn't work for me I guess :/
[00:30] <seb128> selecting and middle click
[00:30] <rickspencer3> tried it
[00:30] <seb128> ctrl-C, ctrl-V
[00:30] <seb128> and menu option
[00:30] <rickspencer3> tried it
[00:30] <rickspencer3> tried it
[00:31] <rickspencer3> :)
[00:31] <seb128> does copy work with other applications?
[00:31] <rickspencer3> seb128, yes
[00:31] <rickspencer3> oops
[00:31] <seb128> like from firefox to where you tried to copy
[00:31] <rickspencer3> called by swmbo
[00:31] <rickspencer3> back later!
[00:31] <seb128> see you
[00:31] <ekilfoil> hello all, over the weekend, the guys from #ubuntu-bugs said i should mention here that gtkmm needs to be updated for lucid... the current version has a pretty nasty bug...
[00:31] <ekilfoil> i didn't think this sounded like the right channel... but i'll do as i was instructed :)
[00:31] <seb128> ekilfoil, it's on our todolist yes
[00:32] <ekilfoil> seb128: perfect thanks
[00:32] <seb128> cf topic for table of versions and what needs to be updated
[01:55] <rickspencer3> RAOF, I'm working on screenshots for the quickly ubuntu-application tutorial
[01:55] <rickspencer3> it's made slightly less tedious by being able to easily edit in f-sport
[01:55] <rickspencer3> which is a recent replacement for f-spot, made for poor typists
[01:56] <RAOF> :)
[01:56] <RAOF> It'll be slightly less tedious again when f-spot 0.6.1.5-2ubuntu5 is built & published.
[01:58] <rickspencer3> RAOF, curious, what's the change?
[01:58] <RAOF> A couple of memory-leak fixes, it will notice when new images appear in the directory you're viewing, and editing won't destroy the orientation information.
[01:59] <RAOF> Oh, and a long-time bug about messing around with the timestamps on import is fixed.
[01:59] <rickspencer3> RAOF, you fixed the time stamp bug?
[02:00] <RAOF> Not completely.
[02:00] <RAOF> It won't write out incorrect timestamps to the photos you import, though.
[02:00] <RAOF> Which seemed to be the most obnoxious part of that bug.
[02:01] <rickspencer3> mmm
[02:01] <rickspencer3> that's a change indeed
[02:01] <RAOF> And was much easier than buying a couple of cameras with timezone information & working out where it's stored in the images & fixing the timezone bug :)
[02:02] <rickspencer3> that sounds horrible, indeed
[02:05] <RAOF> The orientation bug was the most important fix in there, though.  It was quite weird to do an edit on a jpeg with orientation info and have the image rotate by 90 degrees!
[02:07] <rickspencer3> yeah, that sounds suboptimal
[02:08] <RAOF> Incidentally, if you ever get a chance to see The Cat Empire live, do so.  They're awesome live.
[02:09] <RAOF> This is a public service announcement brought to you by /The Wine Song/
[02:10] <rickspencer3> really
[02:10] <rickspencer3> RAOF, link?
[02:10]  * rickspencer3 dons head phones
[02:11] <RAOF> http://www.last.fm/music/The+Cat+Empire/The+Cat+Empire
[02:12] <RAOF> Hm.  Can I chase up a better link...
[02:21] <rickspencer3> heh
[02:21] <rickspencer3> myspace?
[02:22] <rickspencer3> only 1 song on myspace?
[02:22] <RAOF> www.thecatempire.com is their official site, but there be no wine song available there.
[02:22] <rickspencer3> note even
[02:22] <rickspencer3> you tube it is, then
[02:23] <rickspencer3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgkHd6eBfoE
[02:24] <RAOF> Yeah, that'll do it.
[02:24] <RAOF> Hurray for youtube.
[02:24] <RAOF> And questionable copyright :/
[02:25] <rickspencer3> RAOF, sounds like a non-joke  tim minchin
[02:26] <rickspencer3> good, would for sure go see them
[02:27] <RAOF> They are made of barely contained energy live; at least, they have been every time I've seen them :)
[02:27] <rickspencer3> maybe I better arrange to be in Amsterdam on Oct 14th
[02:27] <rickspencer3> uh, 14th
[02:27] <rickspencer3> dang it
[02:28] <rickspencer3> 13th
[02:28] <RAOF> :)
[02:29] <rickspencer3> now the question is, do I go on to do more tutorial fix up, or do I go have a life?
[02:29] <rickspencer3> I shall choose the life option ;)
[02:29] <rickspencer3> by RAOF - thanks for the tip, btw
[02:29] <RAOF> It's gotta be pretty late there.  Life!
[02:29] <rickspencer3> hope they have some in the music store
[02:30] <rickspencer3> well, quickly stuff I do in my "community time"
[06:55] <pitti> Good morning
[06:58] <didrocks> good morning pitti
[06:58]  * didrocks backlog a little before going to Solution Linux
[06:59] <pitti> didrocks: bonjour!
[06:59] <pitti> didrocks: oh, you go to a conference today?
[06:59] <didrocks> pitti: the last 3 days, it's a French Solution Event and there is a Canonical booth
[07:00] <didrocks> hence the fact I'm not really online those 3 days :)
[07:07]  * didrocks hurry and waves goodbye, will be online later in the afternoon.
[08:05] <baptistemm> hello
[08:43] <ara> hello all
[08:52] <pitti> hey ara
[08:52] <seb128> good morning
[08:55] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:56] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:56] <seb128> how are you?
[08:58] <pitti> good, thanks!
[08:58] <pitti> doing some test installs, upgrading my wife's machine, and fixing some bugs
[08:58] <pitti> and fiddling with the retracers..
[08:59] <seb128> sounds like a busy morning ;-)
[08:59] <seb128> let's see how daily isos go
[08:59]  * seb128 rsync
[09:00] <seb128> I upgraded my parents' machine yesterday and reinstalled the mini
[09:00] <seb128> and upgraded my desktop which was still on karmic the day before
[09:00] <seb128> things went mostly smoothly
[09:00] <seb128> mvo, hello
[09:00] <ara> didrocks, is the gnome-screenshot icon been removed from the default UNE install for some good reason?
[09:01] <cassidy> btw, I tried to install a laptop using a lucid daily image 2 days ago and it was making the laptop reboot when booting on it
[09:01] <mvo> hey seb128
[09:01] <seb128> mvo, so apt for some reason decided archive.ubuntu.com was untrusted, not really a pleasant experience in s-c
[09:01] <mvo> hm, I guess in this case it should just offer a reload
[09:01] <seb128> it displays what looks like a synaptic dialog with a textview widget listed the packages to install
[09:01] <seb128> with only a ok button
[09:01] <seb128> and without explanation
[09:01] <seb128> and clicking ok send me back to s-c
[09:02] <seb128> do you want a bug about this?
[09:02] <mvo> seb128: please
[09:02] <seb128> mvo, ok ;-)
[09:03] <seb128> mvo, did I tell you how much s-c rock otherwise? ;-)
[09:03] <seb128> mvo, I find the new login screen with the featured app category showed in this special way very slick
[09:03] <seb128> much nicer than a boring grid only
[09:03] <seb128> it gives some shiny look to the dialog
[09:03] <mvo> seb128: cool, I'm happy to hear that
[09:04] <seb128> I also like the grid btw, it's correctly aligned now with nice icons
[09:04] <seb128> I just need to find how to translate categories now :p
[09:04] <pitti> yeah, it's a real pleasure to the eyes!
[09:04]  * pitti hugs mvo
[09:05] <seb128> ara, didrocks is away for solution linux still today
[09:05]  * pitti hugs mpt, too
[09:05] <ara> seb128, thanks
[09:05] <ogra> sigh, why was the calculator made so useless ?
[09:06]  * ogra used to mainly use it for hex/dec value conversion, with the missing ability to change the modes easily on the fly i cant use it anymore that way
[09:08] <ogra> was that an upstream change or ours ?
[09:08] <seb128> does it look like we do distro change the calculator?
[09:09] <seb128> well, robert_ancell is upstream and work for us
[09:09] <ogra> heh
[09:09] <seb128> so I will let you decide :p
[09:09] <ogra> so the line is blurry :)
[09:09] <seb128> but it has been done upstream
[09:10] <pitti> ogra ++
[09:10] <pitti> I can't figure out how to change the mode any more
[09:10] <ogra> i wouldnt mind to have the settings window sitting aside as long as the main win would actually change the values
[09:10] <ogra> pitti, it moved to the settings
[09:10] <pitti> oh
[09:11] <ogra> but it only changes the behavior on next operation not for the currently typed in value
[09:11] <pitti> I resorted to python
[09:11] <pitti> >>> hex(1234)
[09:11] <pitti> '0x4d2'
[09:11] <ogra> yeah, i meight either do that too or look for a dedicated ui tool
[09:12] <ogra> printf in chell is good for that too ... but using the calculator was far more conveninent
[09:12] <ogra> *shell
[09:33] <mvo> pitti: how is the upgrade going?
[09:35] <pitti> I'll walk over and look again
[09:36] <pitti> mvo: ah, good call, it was stuck on a dpkg conffile question for /etc/gnome/defaults.lists
[09:38]  * pitti files bug
[09:39] <pitti> and network-manager died during the upgrade, leaving it networkless :/
[09:39] <seb128> pitti, ENOSUCHFILE?
[09:39] <seb128> pitti, is that only nm-applet exiting on icon not found issue?
[09:41] <pitti> ah, not network-less, just avahi-less
[09:41] <pitti> seb128: it's in desktop-file-utils
[09:41] <pitti> seb128: s/lists/list/, sorry
[09:42] <seb128> pitti, it's installed in /usr/share/applications not etc
[09:42] <seb128> oh it's the other way around
[09:42] <seb128> ignore me
[09:43] <seb128> pitti, from what are you updating?
[09:43] <pitti> seb128: I filed it as bug 540787
[09:43] <seb128> weird
[09:43] <seb128> I upgraded 2 boxes from karmic to lucid this week
[09:43] <pitti> tseliot: I just got a very strange conffile question on upgrade; u-n showed an empty diff
[09:43] <seb128> and got that one none of those
[09:43] <pitti> /usr/bin/diff: /etc/kernel/header_postinst.d/dkms: No such file or directory
[09:43] <pitti> /etc/kernel/header_postinst.d/dkms.dpkg-new exists
[09:43] <pitti> tseliot: ^ did you see that one?
[09:43] <seb128> pitti, "-application/pdf=AdobeReader.desktop"
[09:44] <pitti> seb128: well, those are older installations from hardy or so
[09:44] <seb128> pitti, we never had AdobeReader in the distro
[09:44] <seb128> I'm pretty sure that has never been in Ubuntu in this way
[09:44] <pitti> seb128: argh, ok; then it's that silly adobe reader which does it
[09:44]  * pitti closes, sorry
[09:44] <seb128> np
[09:45] <mvo> reassign against the -partner adcorread maybe?
[09:49] <pitti> mvo: I'm not even sure it was a deb
[09:49] <pitti> mvo: she probably installed it from their website
[09:50] <tseliot> pitti: maybe dkms removed the hook for the kernel headers?
[09:50]  * tseliot checks the bug report
[09:51]  * mvo nods
[09:51] <pitti> tseliot: I didn't file it/search for an existing one yet (I'm about to)
[09:52] <tseliot> pitti: yes, I've realised that 540787 is not what I'm looking for ;)
[09:52] <seb128> mvo, bug #540790
[09:53] <glatzor> morning james_w and mvo
[09:54] <mvo> hey glatzor!
[09:54] <glatzor> mvo, how are you?
[09:54] <mvo> seb128: thanks
[09:54] <mvo> glatzor: good! how are you?
[09:54] <glatzor> hello seb128 !
[09:54] <glatzor> mvo, one day off from work! Yeah!
[09:54] <seb128> hey glatzor, how are you?
[09:54] <mvo> nice :)
[09:54] <glatzor> indeed
[09:54] <mvo> and ready for hacking?
[09:54] <glatzor> seb128, fine. thanks. and yourself?
[09:55] <glatzor> mvo, right, until angi wakes up :)
[09:55] <seb128> glatzor, quite good, thanks!
[09:55] <glatzor> mvo, james_w: have you looked at my fix for the debconf race?
[09:55] <glatzor> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/aptdaemon/fix-455861/+merge/21344
[09:56] <seb128> pitti, so I don't manage to get my samsung yp-u3 mtp player listed in rhythmbox in lucid
[09:58] <mvo> glatzor: I had a brief look, its tricky stuff. my feeling is that the problem is that on "stop()" we need to make sure we flushed out all data
[10:00] <mvo> glatzor: it looks like you ensure hangup is run, but not that the data is all flushed into both directions. but let me look at the code again
[10:02] <mvo> glatzor: the processing was added as a fix for #432607
[10:07] <mvo> glatzor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/397146/ <- something like this
[10:08] <vish> mvo: hi.. list of new icons for SC categories > http://paste.ubuntu.com/397147/  the humanity update hasnt been done yet , will be done once beta freeze is over
[10:08] <vish> categories icons*
[10:09]  * seb128 kicks rsync again
[10:09] <seb128> we have like 3 updates between isos and it's downloading for ages
[10:10] <glatzor> so we should only call hangup in the stop method?
[10:12] <mvo> vish: cool
[10:14] <glatzor> mvo, and we could raise the priority of the copy callbacks to HIGH so it should be processed before the finished signal from the transaction (which will trigger the stop method)
[10:14] <mvo> glatzor: hm, maybe. another idea is to allow multiple _active_conn so that we just don#t care
[10:16] <mvo> glatzor: hm, doing that would still leave a race when we explicitely call stop() on the socket, no?
[10:16] <mvo> glatzor: what do you dislike about the patch from james?
[10:17] <glatzor> mvo, could be a problem that we call hangup explicity on an IO_HUP|IO_ERR event on the stdout
[10:17] <mvo> glatzor: if we alllow multiple active_con we should just mark the connection pending_stop or something in stop() and wait for the normal hangup
[10:18] <mvo> glatzor: right, I think that is true and hopefully not needed (gio should handle this)
[10:18] <mvo> glatzor: I wonder how we can write test code for this
[10:21] <mvo> glatzor: hm, nevermind, that would not work because debconf will not alllow multiple instances
[10:22] <mvo> glatzor: so it needs to be sequential with just one active connection and one debconf-communicate
[10:23] <pitti> mvo: there's two things during the upgrade
[10:24] <pitti> mvo: first, u-m spits out tons of "undefined @1: ReferenceError: Can't find variable: progress" -> is that something to worry about?
[10:24] <pitti> seb128: is that an MTP one/ or just block device?
[10:25] <mvo> pitti: known, nothing to worry. it can display a slideshow now
[10:26] <mvo> pitti: but we don't have one yet, so the triggered "progress()" JS calls are void, I will fix for beta-2
[10:26] <pitti> mvo: the other issue was that the upgrade removed linux-headers-* for the running kernel
[10:26] <pitti> otherwise it went through just great
[10:26] <seb128> pitti, mtp I think
[10:26] <pitti> seb128: my wife's U5 can do both
[10:26] <pitti> seb128: please feel free to open a bug (apport-bug storage will do again)
[10:27] <pitti> seb128: I'm now done with upgrade/install testing,  I'll get back my attention to bugs
[10:27] <mvo> pitti: linux-headers-* > oh? could you plesae mail me the log? it should not do this, there is code that should prevent it
[10:27] <mvo> pitti: main.log is enough for this
[10:27] <pitti> seb128: I don't have the U5 right here (my wife took it to uni), but I'll get it again this afternoon
[10:27] <pitti> mvo: want a bug, or PM?
[10:27] <seb128> pitti, ok
[10:28] <mvo> glatzor: I commented, maybe james_w also has some inside. I hope it  makes sense, I'm notoriously bad at debugging races
[10:28] <mvo> pitti: either is fine
[10:28] <pitti> but free ati driver + KMS + simple-scan -> lucid rocking on that box
[10:29] <glatzor> mvo, james_w's patch is perhaps fine in fixing the bug, but I have got the feeling that we just add another workaround on top of other workarounds without addressing the core problem
[10:32] <mvo> glatzor: right, it makes everything more complicated, that is for sure.
[10:32] <pitti> mvo: bug 540823
[10:33] <mvo> glatzor: so, lets see. one idea might be to simple not close the socket on stop
[10:34] <mvo> glatzor: and close it later, when _hangup is called, this assumes that all the io events arrive in order, i.e. that the active socket connection is closed before a new thing tries to connect
[10:35] <mvo> glatzor: but I'm not sure that this is valid and if not we need something to syncronize again (e.g. by delaying until socket is fnished in accept connection)
[10:35] <mvo> pitti: thanks, I have a look
[10:38] <mvo> pitti: hm, odd. looks like for some reason the check is failing
[10:40] <pitti> mvo: it's not really a critical bug, more like another line of defense if things go wrong
[10:40] <pitti> mvo: thanks!
[10:49] <pitti> seb128: same icon problem with my G1, so I can reproduce it now
[10:49] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[10:53] <mvo> hm, the auto-upgrader tester reports plymouth fails to terminate on shutdown, I guess that is known
[10:53] <seb128> I get that often too
[10:53] <pitti> mvo: hm, it's not really supposed to
[10:53] <pitti> mvo: oh, that, right; known bug
[10:53] <seb128> dunno if pittit's hook is too picky or if that's a bug
[10:53] <seb128> pitti's
[10:53] <mvo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/2010-03-18-09:47:04/ubuntu/_sbin_plymouthd.0.crash
[10:53] <pitti> mvo: bug 537262 FYI
[10:53] <mvo> aha, this one
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: hah, that was easy; fixed in gdu 2.30 :)
[11:02] <seb128> pitti, nice!
[11:03] <seb128> pitti, there is tons of bugs fix blocked by freeze, lucid feel old and outdated
[11:03] <pitti>   Volume(0): PITTIG1
[11:03] <pitti>     themed icons:  [multimedia-player]  [multimedia]
[11:03]  * seb128 looked at your udisks fixes too yesterday
[11:03] <pitti> seb128: look at my +assignedbugs page, the "fix committed" ones ;)
[11:03] <pitti> but it's only beta-1
[11:03] <seb128> oh, so you meant it
[11:04] <seb128> really trying to catch up with me? ;-)
[11:04] <pitti> people want to get bug fixes after beta-1, too!
[11:04]  * seb128 goes to close some extra bugs
[11:04]  * pitti throws the gauntlet
[11:04]  * seb128 hugs pitti ;-)
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: well, with those lucid targetted bugs, every bug will appear twice in the lists, of course
[11:04]  * pitti hugs seb128, go, go, go!
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: if you fancy trying it, grab gdu from sid and build/install locally
[11:06] <seb128> joke aside I'm really looking forward unfreeze now
[11:06] <pitti> yes, so do I
[11:06] <seb128> pitti, can't I just grab the deb and dpkg -i it?
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: at least having an unapproved queue makes it easier to stash things
[11:06] <pitti> upload & forget
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: hm, I don't know; it's built for sid; but you can try
[11:06]  * seb128 tries that
[11:06] <pitti> seb128: if you have amd64 you can have my debs
[11:06] <seb128> no, i386
[11:07] <seb128> well, do I need to restart my session?
[11:07] <pitti> seb128: I just killed gvfs
[11:07] <pitti> kill `ps ux|grep gvfs | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}'`
[11:07] <pitti> then gvfs-mount -li
[11:07] <pitti> and voila
[11:07] <seb128> ok
[11:07] <pitti> (the -li will trigger it again)
[11:18] <didrocks> ara: (from solution linux, so, not really available): yes, we did that and for some more icons in the une session. The gnome session available in gdm isn't impacted normally
[11:18] <didrocks> seb128: salut :)
[11:19] <ara> didrocks, ok, thanks
[11:19] <seb128> didrocks, lut
[11:23] <seb128> pitti,     themed icons:  [multimedia-player-ipod-white]  [multimedia-player-ipod]  [multimedia-player]  [multimedia]
[11:23] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[11:23] <pitti> rocking
[11:28] <asac> pitti: whats the equiv of langpack.mk for dh7?
[11:28] <asac> or is there none?
[11:28] <seb128> asac, none
[11:28] <pitti> asac: "to be written" :/
[11:29] <asac> wow ... and there ar e really folks teaching dh7 ;)
[11:47] <davmor2> Keybuk: I'm assuming that the squarer 4 dotted version of plymouth is the text version?
[11:52] <pitti> seb128: hm, any idea where the keyboard layout applet went to? I can't seem to find it in the aplet list
[11:52] <seb128> pitti, it's a a notification area icon now
[11:53] <seb128> pitti, remember you complaining about it being an indicator without the label in gnome-panel
[11:53] <pitti> argh, again?
[11:53] <seb128> pitti, not "again", "still"
[11:53] <pitti> I see
[11:53] <seb128> pitti, well it should work as you want
[11:53] <pitti> right, sorry
[11:53] <seb128> pitti, it's automatically there when nlayout > 1
[11:53] <seb128> g-s-d takes care of it
[11:53] <pitti> seb128: ah, ok; I was pretty sure I saw it in the applet list in the past
[11:53] <seb128> pitti, yes, it was an applet in karmic
[11:54] <pitti> seb128: I just added an new layout and it doesn't happen immediately
[11:54] <seb128> it has been converted to a anotification area this cycle
[11:54]  * pitti restarts session
[11:55] <pitti> seb128: ah, nevermind; it's there, but it's black on almost-black
[11:56] <pitti> theme bug
[11:56] <asac> seb128: you see the icon missing bug for nm-applet?
[11:56] <seb128> pitti, no, g-s-d bug, fixing in git
[11:56] <asac> are you doing upgrade tests at all?
[11:56] <seb128> or rather libgnomekbd
[11:56] <seb128> asac, yes, I got it on 2 of the 2 machines I updated
[11:56] <seb128> asac, " are you doing upgrade tests at all?"
[11:56] <asac> seb128: did you figure which icon it was? mvo already added one so we probably miss another
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - do you recall what the icon mae was?
[11:56] <pitti> seb128: perfect
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> ah
[11:56] <seb128> asac, trying to call me slacker or something? ;-)
[11:56] <chrisccoulson> lol
[11:57] <asac> seb128: no. just wondered if you have enough time for upgrade testing ;)
[11:57] <asac> but i guess you just upgradede existing systems
[11:57] <seb128> yes
[11:57] <seb128> and taking time for it
[11:57] <seb128> hum, lunch ready, back in a bit
[11:57] <asac> chrisccoulson: we should dif the icons in karmic vs. those in lucid
[11:57] <seb128> I didn't look at the icon specifically there but I will after lunch
[11:57] <asac> and ensure that all that are not in lucid anymore have a link
[11:57] <seb128> I'm used wired internet on both boxes
[11:58] <seb128> they are desktop with no wifi
[11:58] <chrisccoulson> asac - yeah, i'll do that now
[11:58] <chrisccoulson> i tried doing an upgrade last night in kvm, and i didn't see the issue
[11:58] <asac> could also be that the icon got dropped from the global theme or something, but lets hope its in nm-applet itself
[11:58] <asac> easier to find
[11:58] <asac> chrisccoulson: hmm.
[11:58] <asac> seb128: when did you do that upgrade?
[11:59] <asac> chrisccoulson: maybe mvo uploaded to archive, but we never merged that into package branch?
[11:59]  * asac just guessing
[11:59] <chrisccoulson> asac - it seems to be in the packaging branch too
[11:59] <pitti> seb128: I just tested bug 460328, and it by and large works fine, FWIW
[11:59] <chrisccoulson> assuming i have the correct branch ;)
[12:00] <asac> ok
[12:00] <asac> so yeah. lets check the icon diffs
[12:00] <asac> we should have all names from hardy/karmic in lucid
[12:01] <pitti> seb128: ah, but it picks the wrong one by default; but at least it's not nearly as broken as I feared :)
[12:06]  * pitti is relieved that we don't have to rewrite half of gdm/g-s-d keyboard code for that
[12:12] <seb128> pitti, nice
[12:12] <seb128> asac, one on tuesday and one yesterday during lunch
[12:13] <asac> ok thanks
[12:13] <seb128> asac, mvo never uploaded nm or nm-applet this cycle
[12:14] <seb128> asac, or not that I can see on -changes
[12:16] <chrisccoulson> asac, here is the difference: http://paste.ubuntu.com/397202/
[12:16] <chrisccoulson> but the only missing icon there is provided from debian/icons, and installed with a rule in debian/rules
[12:16] <chrisccoulson> (and it appears in the binary package too)
[12:17] <asac> yeah so most likely icons where renamed in our theme :(
[12:18] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to try another upgrade now
[12:19] <glatzor> mvo, james_w, could you please have a look at the patch: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/455861
[12:21] <mvo> seb128: hm, I think I did a merge proposal, let me see
[12:21] <mvo> seb128, asac: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mvo/network-manager-applet/fix-518760/+merge/18927
[12:23] <seb128> ok, that icon is there
[12:26] <asac> mvo: where does dpkg run dpkg-deb?
[12:27] <asac> mvo: like we have apt-get install ... that runs dpkg ... then we see dpkg-deb <defunct> from time to time and it never gives up
[12:27] <mvo> asac: iirc src/main.c:run_invoke_hooks()
[12:28] <mvo> asac: when you see it, what is the ps afx output?
[12:28] <mvo> asac: can you reproduce?
[12:29] <asac> mvo: yes. in qemu arm unfortunately not mimimal. you have to install the full -netbook task to trigger it reliably
[12:30] <asac> mvo: i have a ready to use qemu image ;) ...
[12:30] <asac> mvo: http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/ubuntu-arm-lucid-minimal.bz2
[12:30] <asac> you just need to increase size by 1g
[12:30] <asac> and run with qemu-system-arm -M versatilepb -cpu cortex-a8 -kernel ./vmlinuz -hda ubuntu-arm.img -m 256 -append "root=/dev/sda mem=256M devtmpfs.mount=0 rw"
[12:30] <seb128> asac, chrisccoulson: weird, neither nm-applet nor human-icon-theme dropped nm-* icons between karmic and lucid
[12:30] <seb128> I just debdiff those
[12:30] <mvo> asac: downloading now
[12:30] <asac> mvo: and you neded to get vmlinuz with: wget http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/lucid/main/installer-armel/current/images/versatile/netboot/vmlinuz
[12:31] <asac> if you then run apt-get install ^ubuntu-netbook ... it will work and at some point not continue with dpkg consuming 100%
[12:31] <asac> and dpkg-deb showing up and going away with defunct
[12:31] <mvo> hm, the shutdown hang apport thing really spoils the upgrade tests, http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/2010-03-18-09:47:04/kubuntu/ <- all crash files there have Title: does not terminate at computer shutdown
[12:32] <asac> seb128: there might be icons != nm- in use
[12:32] <mvo> asac: and you think its not toolchain ;)
[12:32] <mvo> asac: I check it out now
[12:32] <asac> mvo: well. te root cause probably is either qemu or toolchain. but dpkg not stopping is odd
[12:33] <asac> the dpkg process loops in with strace saying just "read"
[12:33] <mvo> it could be a race of some sort that is only triggered in 16Mhz like machines like a arm in qemu
[12:33] <asac> right thats what we expect
[12:33] <mvo> has anyone seen in on real HW?
[12:33] <asac> no. but we rely on qemu for rootstock
[12:33] <mvo> ok
[12:33] <asac> e.g. a  popular tool that allows you to produce rootfs for arm
[12:34] <seb128> asac, no there is none of those
[12:34] <seb128> asac, all the ICON_LOAD are nm-*
[12:35] <seb128> asac, and this error is displayed when an ICON_LOAD fails
[12:35] <asac> seb128: does the error say which icon isnt loaded?
[12:35] <seb128> shame that .xsession-errors is not rotated
[12:35]  * asac thinks that error should include that
[12:35] <seb128> asac, no, but g_warning does but I rebooted the box after upgrade
[12:35] <seb128> which whipped the .xsession-errors
[12:35] <asac> too bad
[12:35] <seb128> I still have one box to update though
[12:35] <asac> cool ;)
[12:35] <asac> lets hope
[12:35] <seb128> will do that now
[12:36] <asac> even better ;)
[12:36] <chrisccoulson> i'm doing an update in kvm now as well
[12:40] <mvo> asac: -M versatilepb ?
[12:40] <asac> mclasen: doesnt work?
[12:41] <mvo> qemu: hardware error: arm_timer_write: Bad offset 574
[12:41] <mvo> you probably mean me
[12:41] <mvo> qemu-system-arm -m 256M -M versatilepb -kernel ./arm-vmlinuz -hda ubuntu-arm-lucid-minimal
[12:42] <asac> mvo: the full command line as above works for me
[12:42] <asac> mvo: just need vmlinuz
[12:42] <asac> mvo: are you on lucid?
[12:42] <mvo> yes
[12:42] <asac> hmm
[12:43]  * mvo checks if everything is up-to-date
[12:43] <asac> mvo: you have some global config for qemu?
[12:43] <mvo> not that I know of
[12:43] <asac> ogra: ^^
[12:43] <asac> ogra: he gets hardware error
[12:43] <asac> 13:41 < mvo> qemu: hardware error: arm_timer_write: Bad offset 574
[12:44] <seb128> mvo, does update-manager play tricks with themes on update?
[12:44] <mvo> seb128: it should not, but it has code to reset it, I think its deactivated though
[12:44] <seb128> ok
[12:44] <mvo> seb128: there was a issue with a certain theme (iirc in xubuntu) that would crash the whole system on upgrade
[12:45] <seb128> I just booted a karmic image in kvm and upgraded network-manager-gnome + icon theme
[12:45] <seb128> but no error
[12:46] <seb128> let's see what it does on the other computer upgrade
[12:47] <mvo> I saw the error message on all my upgrades so far, I can try a automatic one with my stepmaker
[12:47] <mvo> profile
[12:59] <seb128> interesting
[12:59] <seb128> mvo, can you get stdout or .xsession-errors for one of those?
[13:00] <seb128> in any case upgrade running there
[13:00] <seb128> but my download sucks it's going to take a bit over an hour
[13:03] <mvo> seb128: install squid-deb-proxy ;)
[13:03] <mvo> seb128: I'm running it now, lets see. its not reliable yet becaue metacity sometimes moves the window at a different place
[13:04] <mvo> seb128: I need to figure out how to make sure it always puts them in roughly the same space
[13:04] <mvo> this is a problem with stepmaker, it works by looking at the screen and if the region does not exactly match -> boom
[13:04] <seb128> could try devilspie
[13:05] <seb128> it probably can do that sort of things
[13:12] <mvo> thanks seb128
[13:18] <ogra> mvo, what kernel
[13:18] <ogra> (sorry was at lunch)
[13:19] <mvo> ogra: this one here http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/lucid/main/installer-armel/current/images/versatile/netboot/vmlinuz
[13:19] <ogra> mvo, and the above is your full cmdline ?
[13:19] <ogra> -cpu cortex-a8 is missing i think
[13:21] <mvo> ogra: cool, much happier now
[13:21] <ogra> great :)
[13:21] <mvo> well, kernel panic, but that is me not using -append "root="
[13:21] <ogra> yeah
[13:21] <mvo> ogra: you may want to update the wiki as well
[13:22] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch has it
[13:22] <ogra> not sure what page you look at
[13:22] <mvo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM
[13:23] <mvo> it has a commandline there
[13:23] <ogra> hmm, thats persias page
[13:23]  * mvo also wonders why its run as sudo there
[13:23] <ogra> oh, seems asac duplicated rootfs from scratch at the bottom
[13:24] <ogra> or whoever added that part
[13:24] <ogra> oh my, it even points to a jaunty kernel ... i guess thats quite old and outdated
[13:25]  * ogra removes the whole section
[13:25] <mvo> do it
[13:25] <mvo> before it confuses more poor souls like me
[13:26] <ogra> i didnt even know that section was there, we always point all people to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch
[13:27] <ogra> since thats constantly maintained
[13:27]  * mvo hugs seb128 for the devilspie suggestion -- I try a solution with that now
[13:27]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[13:29] <mvo> (if (matches (window_name) ".*") (center)) -- haha
[13:29]  * mvo thinks that was not such a good idea
[13:29] <seb128> ;-)
[13:31] <pitti> seb128: with gdu 2.30, do you also see the YP-3 in RB again?
[13:31] <pitti> seb128: (it seems to work fine again for my U5)
[13:31] <asac> ogra: i duplicated?
[13:31] <asac> i didnt touch
[13:32] <ogra> well your name was on the wikipage as last editor ...
[13:32] <ogra> yeah, its older
[13:32] <ogra> i thought you just added that part since i didnt know it at all
[13:33] <seb128> pitti, no
[13:33] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey
[13:33] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[13:33] <rickspencer3> hi seb128, hi pitti
[13:34] <pitti> seb128: so this is MTP only, you said? does it have ID_MEDIA_PLAYER tag in udev?
[13:34] <pitti> seb128: I'm about to release m-p-i 5 now, so I'm the mood of fixing those :) (although m-p-i is not related to MTP devices)
[13:34] <pitti> seb128: but with gdu 2.30 and mpi 5, handling of the G1 and the U5 is a work of perfection
[13:35] <seb128> pitti, E: ID_MEDIA_PLAYER=1
[13:38] <pitti> seb128: and a /dev/libmtp* ?
[13:39] <hyperair> m-p-i?
[13:39] <seb128> $ ls /dev/libmtp-1-3.4
[13:39] <seb128> /dev/libmtp-1-3.4
[13:39] <seb128> pitti, ^
[13:39] <pitti> seb128: hm, itz RB bug then
[13:40] <seb128> pitti, ok, I will try to have a look later
[13:40] <seb128> pitti, is your device using libmtp?
[13:40] <seb128> pitti, do you let gvfsd-gphoto mount it?
[13:40] <pitti> seb128: yes, in RB
[13:41] <seb128> I don't think libmtp let you access the device twice
[13:41] <pitti> seb128: it's mounted as block device (sdb1)
[13:41] <seb128> gvfs locks it
[13:41] <pitti> seb128: but if I fire up RB then, RB unmounts it and accesses it through libmtp
[13:42] <seb128> weird
[13:42] <seb128> rhythmbox is not supposed to have code for unmounting
[13:42] <seb128> upstream told me yesterday that he needs to review changes to do that
[13:43] <seb128> pitti, does rhythmbox -D mtp list things for you?
[13:43] <chrisccoulson> asac / seb128 - i got the nm-applet error again
[13:44] <pitti> seb128: sorry, the device is gone now (wife went out of the house again); I'll get it back in ~ 2 hours
[13:44] <chrisccoulson> i'll copy and paste the error out of my kvm machine in a second
[13:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, look to the g_warning in .xsession-errors
[13:44] <seb128> pitti, no hurry, it's minor, I don't actually use that device
[13:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, just getting that now
[13:44] <pitti> seb128: still, it ought to work
[13:45] <chrisccoulson> there are actually lots of very similar warnings in xsession-errors
[13:45] <seb128> pitti, it's one I got from Canonical to be able to test mtp devices some cycles ago
[13:45] <seb128> pitti, right...
[13:45] <pitti> seb128: so, let's use it for its purpose :)
[13:45] <seb128> ;-)
[13:46] <seb128> hum, ok
[13:46] <seb128> for those who use jabber.org they upgraded their server
[13:47] <seb128> and it seems to make gnutls unhappy
[13:47] <seb128> which is what telepathy use
[13:47] <pitti> I have gotten a network error for an hour now
[13:47] <seb128> you can use pidgin or gajim meanwhile
[13:47] <seb128> they use libnss and openssl which still work
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> seb128 / asac, here's my xsession-errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/397262/
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> and the error is:
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> ** (nm-applet:1368): WARNING **: Icon nm-active-device missing: Unable to load image-loading module: /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/loaders/libpixbufloader-png.so: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/loaders/libpixbufloader-png.so)
[13:48] <seb128> doh
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> but it seems lots of things fall over with a very similar error
[13:48] <seb128> mvo, ^
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think that's a mvo bug ;)
[13:48] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right, but other softwares don't exit on this
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, but they probably misbehave
[13:49] <seb128> right
[13:49] <seb128> does it means gtk should pre-depends on the new libc?
[13:50] <mvo> eh, *ick*
[13:51] <asac> yeah. seems it lazily loads the pixbufloader
[13:51] <mvo> one (obvious) workaorund is to load the icon at statrtup and keep a reference to it
[13:52] <seb128> mvo, well, that means changing the karmic version
[13:52] <mvo>         self.pngloader = gtk.gdk.PixbufLoader("png")
[13:52] <mvo> hm, right
[13:52] <seb128> oh, you mean from update-manager
[13:52] <mvo> well, u-m is doing that, but it does not help n-m :/
[13:52] <seb128> mvo, can't we make sure libc is installed first?
[13:53] <mvo> chrisccoulson: can I see the full upgrade log please (apt-term.log)?
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> mvo - it's still upgrading at the moment
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> do you want me to wait until it's finished?
[13:53] <mvo> seb128: I'm really hesitant to add a pre-depends, for something complex as gtk with its dependencies it may make things worse
[13:54] <mvo> chrisccoulson: not needed, just what you have until now to see what the order of events is
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> mvo - http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/apt-term.log
[14:05] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 fyi I assigned us https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/540907 because I didn't know who would be responsible for fixing this
[14:05] <rickspencer3> please reassign as appropriate
[14:06] <pitti> ok
[14:06] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok
[14:06] <seb128> I still need to add a feature there...
[14:06] <seb128> the layout should be only for the light themes but the themes don't allow to set the layout
[14:06] <seb128> we will need to make the capplet change the gconf key with the theme
[14:10] <seb128> rickspencer3, btw this bug is a duplicate
[14:10] <rickspencer3> seb128, thanks
[14:10] <seb128> will look for the original number and clean that later
[14:11]  * seb128 kicks jockey
[14:11] <seb128> why do you keep suggesting to install bf43 by default where the driver doesn't work on the mini and sta should be used
[14:12] <seb128> *shrug* and installing sta crashes the box
[14:13] <mvo> seb128: libc6 gets unpacked/configured really early, I doubt this is the problem, I bet its something like "n-m has the old version of gtk referenced in memory and the old libc, then the loader is opened and matched against this libc instead of the system libc"
[14:13] <seb128> I had that yesterday already but I though that was coincidence
[14:13] <seb128> mvo, ok, so basically we are screwed
[14:15] <chrisccoulson> that would make sense anyway
[14:16] <chrisccoulson> i wonder if thats the same issue which causes the missing firefox icon on the panel during the upgrade
[14:18] <pedro_> kenvandine, hi, are you around?
[14:18] <kenvandine> pedro_, hey
[14:18] <mvo> seb128: at least I don't have a great idea currently
[14:18] <kenvandine> pedro_, what's up?
[14:18] <seb128> mvo, me neither
[14:19] <pedro_> kenvandine, do you know how is taking care of desktopcouch? we have crash related to that in gwibber
[14:19] <pedro_> bug 536619
[14:19] <pedro_> and a couple of others reports with similar stacktrace
[14:19] <pedro_> with recent duplicates
[14:19] <mvo> chrisccoulson: do you know what triggers the nm-active-device icon to be loaded? could we trigger it before the upgrade starts somehow via some magic we do to network-manager (-applet?)
[14:19] <kenvandine> pedro_, a bunch of dupes
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> mvo - a theme change
[14:20] <kenvandine> pedro_, chad is the desktopcouch guy
[14:20] <seb128> mvo, nm-applet reload icons on theme changes
[14:20] <pedro_> seems to be connected to bug 530541
[14:20] <kenvandine> pedro_, CardinalFang in #ubuntuone
[14:20] <pedro_> kenvandine, thanks, will ping him
[14:20] <seb128> mvo, I guess it gets a theme changed signal when the cache is updated after the icon updates
[14:21] <kenvandine> pedro_, i guess we need to do more upgrade testing for desktopcouch
[14:21] <mvo> seb128, chrisccoulson: and how to trigger that? we could try to trigger it before the actual uprade starts, then the loaders we need should be all in memory
[14:21] <seb128> mvo, normally it means you get new icons without restarting the software
[14:21] <kenvandine> pedro_, thx
[14:21] <mvo> seb128: does that use inotify? could we just touch the icon cache files .) ?
[14:22] <seb128> mvo, I guess the loader is in memory since nm-applet already displays icons
[14:22] <mvo> I'm fine adding code for that in the upgrader to try if that helps
[14:22] <chrisccoulson> mvo - the issue is that they are touched when you install the new theme components
[14:22] <mvo> hm, right. its probably released pretty quickly
[14:22] <mvo> nevermind the idea then
[14:22] <mvo> (the loaders are released I mean)
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think so
[14:23] <seb128> mvo, the new nm-applet code handle that in a better way btw
[14:23] <seb128> that doesn't help for those updates though
[14:23] <seb128> mvo, the lazy icon loading change I did in lucid has a fallback icon
[14:24] <seb128> it displays the fallback icon rather than exiting now
[14:24] <seb128> which is a stock gtk icon
[14:24] <mvo> good
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i get a debconf prompt on upgrade ("Configure without install grub?")
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> and i have to check that in order to continue
[14:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, does it ask on what disk to install grub?
[14:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, it's just a window with "Configuring grub-pc", and then a checkbox with "Configure without install grub?"
[14:25] <seb128> urg, ok, I didn't get that one
[14:25] <chrisccoulson> and it won't let me continue until i've checked it
[14:25] <seb128> I got a list of drivers and partitions with checkboxes
[14:25] <seb128> and /dev/sda checked
[14:25] <seb128> which was about where to install grub
[14:25] <seb128> drivers -> drives
[14:31] <mvo> seb128: I got a "failed to save configuration" dialog from nautilus for my 8.04 -> 10.04 upgrade, but nothing interessting in .xsession-errors it seems
[14:31] <seb128> the dialog mention slightly ring a bell
[14:31] <seb128> I wonder if you didn't already mentioned it during some previous cycle upgrade testing
[14:32] <mvo> seb128: possible
[14:32] <seb128> I've not really clue about that one but feel free to open a bug
[14:32] <seb128> I will try to have a look if todolist allows time for that before lucid
[14:32] <seb128> screenshot of the error would probably be nice if you open a bug
[14:38] <mvo> seb128: thans, will do
[14:38] <mvo> seb128: for 8.04 -> 10.04 we have a bit of extra time, we will probably not enable it immediately
[14:38] <seb128> mvo, usual "first round of testing before turning that on"?
[14:39] <mvo> yes
[14:39] <seb128> good
[14:39] <mvo> 10.04.1 maybe even
[14:56] <nigelb> kenvandine: got a couple of minutes to spare?
[14:56] <kenvandine> hey nigelb
[14:56] <kenvandine> what do you need?
[14:57] <nigelb> I got gwibber to build on debian (finally) but it gives me an error on testing "File "/usr/bin/gwibber", line 47, in <module>   from gwibber.microblog.util import log ImportError: No module named gwibber.microblog.util"
[14:58] <kenvandine> nigelb, do you have the package split ?
[14:58] <nigelb> nope
[14:58] <kenvandine> so service is a different deb?
[14:58] <nigelb> I have to split it?
[14:58] <kenvandine> no
[14:58] <kenvandine> but it was designed to be separated :)
[14:58] <kenvandine> anyway
[14:58] <kenvandine> it looks like you are missing files
[14:58] <kenvandine> that are from the service
[14:59] <nigelb> so, splitting up would be suggested?
[14:59] <kenvandine> yes
[14:59] <nigelb> I donno how yet, but I'll try to do that
[14:59] <kenvandine> hopefully there will be a qt or kde client at some point
[14:59] <kenvandine> look at the ubuntu package
[14:59] <nigelb> yep, thats what I was going to do :)
[15:00] <Technoviking> what package are the me-menu icons in
[15:06] <seb128> pitti, rickspencer3, everybody: jabber.org fixed
[15:06] <seb128> you can reconnect empathy
[15:06] <rickspencer3> sweet
[15:06] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[15:07] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i am using the u1 music store in banshee... works well :)
[15:07] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, nice
[15:25] <baptistemm> hi there
[15:25] <baptistemm> seb128, is bug 532604 an indicator-applet bug?
[15:26] <jcastro> baptistemm: I believe it was, but was fixed a few days ago
[15:27] <baptistemm> the bug was open 13 days ago
[15:27] <seb128> baptistemm, it was, should be fixed for a week
[15:27] <jcastro> pretty sure it's a dupe, it's been broken for a long time
[15:28] <jcastro> was broken I mean
[15:28] <baptistemm> seb128, jcastro, thanks
[15:32] <pitti> seb128: wow, that was fast
[15:32] <seb128> pitti, yeah one of the #telepathy guy is sysadmin for jabber.org
[15:32] <seb128> didn't you know how much the telepathy team rocks? ;-)
[15:34] <pitti> :) they do!
[15:37] <pitti> \o/
[15:37] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
[15:37] <pitti> DONE
[15:37] <pitti> rickspencer3: ^
[15:37] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[15:37] <rickspencer3> pitti,  you rockkk!
[15:38] <pitti> kenvandine had the honor of closing the last one *hug*
[15:38] <pitti> rickspencer3: s/you/we/
[15:38] <kenvandine> :)
[15:38] <kenvandine> i could have closed it weeks ago.. but i really wanted incentive to make it all dynamic and stuff :)
[15:39] <pitti> well, nice point landing
[15:40] <kenvandine> although i did make it better today
[15:43]  * pitti -> supermarket and some errands
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you say you had an update for your nm-applet lazy icon load patch?
[16:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, if you could take the git version it would be nice
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> thanks, will do
[16:33] <seb128> upstream fixed a leak and refactored a bit
[16:34] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[16:34] <seb128> good opportunity to check git log in case there is some other fix worth grabbing ;-)
[16:42] <Keybuk> dobey: <nag on behalf of mmeeks>
[16:45] <dobey> heh
[16:47] <dobey> Keybuk: was that a delayed nag, or did he just now ask you to nag me?
[16:48] <mvo> seb128: did my mail make it to the gnomecc list btw, send it yesterday I think
[16:48] <mvo> seb128: about system wide defaults - or is it in the moderation queue somewhere :/
[16:48] <Keybuk> dobey: he may have asked earlier, it was sitting as a /msg I hadn't picked up ;)
[16:48] <seb128> mvo, you sent one 2 days ago
[16:48] <seb128> mvo, nothing yesterday
[16:49] <mvo> ok
[16:49] <dobey> ok
[16:49] <mvo> nobody replied :(
[16:49] <seb128> "yet"
[16:49] <mvo> ha!
[16:49] <seb128> let's wait and see ;-)
[16:49] <mvo> ok :)
[17:33]  * hyperair wonders why avahi-daemon keeps complaining about broken pipes and going into an infinite loop
[17:38] <cjohnston> seb128: thanks for fixing the 1px border bug!
[17:39] <seb128> cjohnston, you're welcome
[17:42] <seb128> pedro_, hey
[17:43] <pedro_> hey seb128
[17:43] <seb128> pedro_, let's stop assigning desktop-bugs to the desktop-bugs team
[17:43] <seb128> pedro_, or do you have an opinion on that? or reason we should keep doing it
[17:45] <dobey> vish: ping
[17:45] <pedro_> seb128, if the team is subscribed to those products so we can get emails about the changes, is ok for me
[17:45] <pedro_> seb128, i don't have an strong opinion about it rather than being used for email notifications
[17:46] <seb128> pedro_, ok
[17:46] <seb128> pedro_, well we subscribe the team to all those components
[17:46] <seb128> if you find one where it's not please add it
[17:46] <pedro_> seb128, sure, i'll do it
[17:46] <seb128> I started doing that by then to list all bugs for team packages
[17:46] <seb128> but there is thousand of those now so there is no real point
[17:46] <seb128> and we have qa report and json for doing that too
[17:47] <pedro_> yup agreed on that
[17:47] <seb128> so it's one less action to do when changing a bug
[17:47] <seb128> and less confusing for triagers not used to desktop bugs
[17:47] <seb128> pedro_, ok good
[17:47] <seb128> so let's do that
[17:48] <pedro_> yes and just make use of the "assign" field properly as in assigned to someone who's going to fix the bug
[17:48] <seb128> right
[17:48] <seb128> will make pitti happy too
[17:48] <seb128> since he doesn't believe in teams being assigned to bugs :p
[17:48] <pedro_> ;-)
[17:53] <vish> dobey: pong
[17:53] <dobey> vish: multimedia-player-ipod in humanity is the wrong name
[17:53] <dobey> vish: should be multimedia-player-apple-ipod if you're going for the generic fallback for ipods only
[17:53] <vish> hmm , lemme check
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> seb128 / pedro_ - so, just so i understand, we're not going to assign bugs to desktop-bugs anymore?
[17:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right, or do you think it still bring us something?
[17:55] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, i'm ok with not assigning them
[17:55] <chrisccoulson> i always wondered why we did that anyway ;)
[17:55] <vish> dobey: oh , didnt know that so its all  "multimedia-player-apple-x"
[17:55] <dobey> vish: yes
[17:56] <dobey> unless it's the iphone
[17:56] <dobey> then it's phone-apple-iphone
[17:56] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the reason was to have a way to list all bugs on any desktop-bug team package on one screen
[17:56] <seb128> right now you have +packagebugs
[17:56] <vish> dobey: righto , correcting it , thanks
[17:56] <seb128> but not way to list all bugs for team packages or members in launchpad
[17:56] <seb128> but etoomanybugs anyway
[17:56] <seb128> and we can use json queries for that now
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that makes more sense :)
[18:38] <rickspencer3> I know it's going to be a long day when I don't get to finish my coffee in the morning
[18:38] <rickspencer3> and that was 4.5 hours ago!
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, do you drink your coffee once it has gone cold?
[18:44] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, no
[18:44] <rickspencer3> I'm not that cool
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> lol
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> i've still got half a mug here that i made at lunchtime
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> i might drink it though. i don't like to let it go to waste ;)
[18:45] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I did take a break and make some tea a couple of hours ago, so have sufficient caffination ;)
[18:46] <kenvandine> ewww... cold coffee
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> heh
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> i should probably go and make a fresh one really
[18:49] <dobey> vish: btw, how does humanity deal with user interface freeze?
[18:49] <dobey> rickspencer3: ^^ or maybe you can answer that?
[18:50] <rickspencer3> dobey, by taking it by the scruff of the neck and throwing it to the ground, I guess
[18:50] <vish> dobey: the same way as the others i guess , why the doubt?
[18:50] <rickspencer3> dobey, seriously, though
[18:50] <rickspencer3> the point of interface freeze is more to start notifying teams of UI changes
[18:50] <rickspencer3> so that they can be aware and adjust
[18:51] <rickspencer3> it's not "no more changes are allowed to the UI"
[18:51] <rickspencer3> dobey, I would be suspicious of anyone who said they did not know that this change has occurred ;)
[18:52] <dobey> ok, i was mainly wondering if it was like "we have to ask for an exception every change we make to an icon" or what :)
[18:53] <vish> dobey: if it is gonna break something major.. but most of the work is done only bugs are being fixed now
[18:53] <rickspencer3> dobey, well, there should be a bug that describes the change, and then subscribe the right people
[18:53] <rickspencer3> if the change is not deemed beneficial for the amount of knock on work that it causes, the release team may nack it
[18:54] <dobey> ok
[18:54] <vish> dobey: btw , which icon was bugging you? ;)
[18:56] <dobey> vish: well all the humanity icons bug me... but i was asking for the possibility of putting a couple more icons in humanity
[18:56] <vish> loo
[18:56]  * kenvandine hugs humanity
[18:56] <vish> *lol
[18:57] <zyga> hello, does anyone use desktop-effects and is annoyed by lack of shift-alt-tab going back?
[18:57] <zyga> is this by design or simple bug?
[18:57] <vish> dobey: software center will be getting new icons
[18:57] <dobey> M-S-Tab works fine here
[18:58] <kenvandine> zyga, works here
[18:58] <zyga> dobey: if you disable desktop-effects shift-alt-tab works
[18:58] <kenvandine> works with desktop effects for me
[18:58] <jcastro> doesn't work here
[18:58] <zyga> meta or plain alt?
[18:59] <dobey> zyga: i'm using compiz with cube and everything
[18:59] <dobey> alt
[18:59] <dobey> left alt
[18:59] <kenvandine> alt-shift-tab goes backwards and alt-tab goes forward
[18:59] <zyga> dobey: you probably changed settings
[18:59] <dobey> right alt probably won't work
[18:59] <zyga> I'm running defaults here
[18:59] <kenvandine> i am pretty sure i am running defaults
[18:59] <zyga> if I disable d-e it works as before
[18:59] <dobey> i'm running a system i've been upgrading since gutsy or something...
[18:59] <dobey> so i have no idea
[18:59] <dobey> i just know it works now, and it worked then :)
[19:00] <zyga> this is fresh install from daily cd
[19:00]  * dobey blames the window button placement
[19:00] <rickspencer3> zyga, I think there was a bug on that in Karmic as well
[19:00] <dobey> :)
[19:00] <zyga> I remember this issue is present since karmic
[19:00] <zyga> :D
[19:00] <zyga> right
[19:00] <kenvandine> zyga, one sec, i have a freshly installed box downstairs
[19:00] <zyga> I always patch my config but this is silly
[19:00] <kenvandine> let me go check
[19:00] <zyga> kenvandine: thanks
[19:01] <zyga> perhaps this is something trivial and we can fix it easily for lucid
[19:01] <zyga> everyone: having guest session might be a test environment too (I'm not sure if d-e work in guest sessions though)
[19:01] <chrisccoulson> there is no keybinding for going back by default
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> that's easy to fix though
[19:02] <zyga> let's say I'm eager to fix this, what should I do (apart from looking up that issue in lp)
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> you just need to set /apps/compiz/plugins/staticswitcher/allscreens/options/prev_key to "<Shift><Alt>Tab"
[19:02] <zyga> branch some compiz-related package and patch defaults?
[19:03] <zyga> hmm, gconf defaults then
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> i don't know how we maintain compiz actually, but i could find out and then show you how to fix it :)
[19:03] <kenvandine> indeed, on a fresh install it is broken
[19:03] <zyga> chrisccoulson: gladly
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> but that would have to be later on this evening if you're still around
[19:03] <zyga> sure, please ping me
[19:03] <zyga> actually
[19:04] <zyga> please just say if what I'm about to say is sensible
[19:04] <zyga> grep for that setting in gconf
[19:04] <zyga> dpkg-query -S the file
[19:04] <zyga> and apt-get source that package
[19:04] <zyga> if it's in bzr I can easily branch that
[19:04] <zyga> patch & fix is easy if it's just a gconf value
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> that might help find the branch, but there is a specific way for setting gconf defaults in our packaging
[19:05] <zyga> oh
[19:05] <zyga> how does that work?
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> we don't normally patch upstream schemas, although i don't know if that is the case with compiz
[19:05] <zyga> (if upstream default is broken it should be reported too IMHO)
[19:06] <zyga> by broken I mean not what 99% expect and not what is used by metacity
[19:06] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it should be
[19:10]  * zyga needs to logout-and-in-again
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> zyga - are you familiar with bzr and cdbs?
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> ooh
[19:14] <zyga> odd, I set that key to <Shift><Alt>Tab but there is no effect
[19:16] <chrisccoulson> zyga - that's strange. it seems to work here when i set it
[19:18] <zyga> let's confirm how we set it
[19:18] <zyga> gconftool-2  /apps/compiz/plugins/staticswitcher/allscreens/options/prev_key "<Shift><Alt>Tab"
[19:19] <zyga> same?
[19:20] <zyga> hmm, I just checked the man page
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> i don't think that will set it
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> you need:
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> gconftool-2 --set --type string /apps/compiz/plugins/staticswitcher/allscreens/options/prev_key "<Shift><Alt>Tab"
[19:20] <zyga> --set?
[19:20] <zyga> ok it works :(
[19:21] <zyga> my bad
[19:21] <zyga> gconftool-2 --type string --set  /apps/compiz/plugins/staticswitcher/allscreens/options/prev_key "<Shift><Alt>Tab"
[19:30] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, jcastro, anybody ... does anyone know the Xournal upstream?
[19:31] <rickspencer3> someone pinged me about developing a Linux client for an electronic note taking tool they are creating
[19:31] <rickspencer3> it occured to me that integration iwth Xournal might be a good path for them to take
[19:33] <jcastro> rickspencer3: the only person I recognize in AUTHORS is dpm
[19:33] <rickspencer3> thanks jcastro
[19:33] <rickspencer3> I'm googling like crazy, but can't find any developer docs for it
[19:34] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure, i've never used it before
[19:34] <rickspencer3> so I'm thinking integration is not a mainline scenario for them
[19:34] <dpm> rickspencer3, I was in touch with him a while ago. I created a patch for internationalizing the app. I can give you his e-mail or get you in touch with him
[19:35] <dpm> (the xournal guy, I mean)
[19:35] <rickspencer3> dpm, that would be sweet
[19:35] <rickspencer3> though I will just pass it along to this other dude
[19:35] <rickspencer3> ;)
[19:35] <dpm> ok :)
[19:36] <rickspencer3> thanks dpm
[19:45] <chrisccoulson> mvo - did you have any thoughts for a way forward with this nm-applet issue on upgrade?
[19:50] <mvo> chrisccoulson: no, sorry. my best idea was the triggering of a cache reload at the start of the upgrade i'm happy to give this a try, but I guess it will not work (because of the reasons discussed earlier)
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> mvo - yeah, i suspect that won't work, as the module gets unloaded again straight afterwards
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> and then we trigger an icon update again when installing the themes
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> i think we're a bit screwed with this one :-/
[19:52] <mvo> yes :/
[19:52] <mvo> chrisccoulson, zyga: re shift-alt-tab - I remember uploading a fix for this some weeks ago
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> mvo - yeah, i just had a look at the source, and it seems to be set correctly
[19:53] <zyga> mvo: oh really? so it should work-out-of-the-box now/
[19:54]  * zyga needs to test this on more-recent daily then
[19:55] <mvo> well, it really was weeks
[19:55] <mvo> metacity (1:2.28.0-0ubuntu2) karmic-proposed; urgency=low
[19:55] <mvo>   * debian/metacity-common.gconf-defaults:
[19:55] <mvo>     - make shift-alt-tab the default keybinding for reverse
[19:55] <mvo>       window (LP: #150702)
[19:55] <zyga> mvo: hmm, odd - let me run upstairs to check on another box
[19:55] <mvo> subject: [ubuntu/lucid] metacity 1:2.28.0-2ubuntu4 (Accepted)
[19:56] <mvo>     - use the correct gconf key for the backward setting
[19:56] <mvo> so it should be there
[19:56] <zyga> checking now
[19:57] <chrisccoulson> mvo - oh, we're talking about compiz. it's using a different location for the settings isn't it?
[19:57] <kenvandine> mvo, i just installed fresh on my wife's laptop last night, it isn't set for her
[19:58] <zyga> mvo: you set this for metacity, why?
[19:58] <zyga> mvo: the issue we're having is with compiz and staticswitch plugin
[19:58] <zyga> is the gconf setting set in metacity for that?
[19:59] <zyga> kenvandine: confirmed, it's not set on a 2-day old install
Tab works but that's another keybinding
[20:02] <mvo> chrisccoulson: how do you mean? some settings its sharing with metacity and use the same location
[20:02] <mvo> kenvandine: oh :/
[20:03] <mvo> zyga: right, metacity and compiz share the settings
[20:03] <mvo> chrisccoulson: I heard you are the new compiz guy ;)
[20:03] <mvo> ?
[20:03]  * chrisccoulson hides
[20:03] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[20:03] <chrisccoulson> who told you that? ;)
[20:03] <kenvandine> lucky chrisccoulson
[20:04] <Sarvatt> I was just speaking to my wife whom used ubuntu for the first time for the past 2 weeks and didn't like the new button layout and it got me curious. are the people who prefer it left handed? do they use a touchpad? moving the cursor to the top left to use those controls so often when you are right handed using a touchpad just feels awkward when the touchpad speed isn't cranked up, and now that we have to click to see things such as battery
[20:04] <Sarvatt>  life left the cursor usually gets left in the top right area
[20:04] <zyga> Sarvatt: I'm left handed
[20:04] <zyga> I do use the touchpad
[20:05] <chrisccoulson> i'm right handed, and i prefer the new button layout now ;)
[20:05] <zyga> but I'm not sure I like the order of the buttons, (why different from osx)
[20:05] <chrisccoulson> i find it awkward when i use my desktop now (which runs karmic)
[20:08] <dobey> the problem with the buttons isn't the buttons. it's the way moving the buttons is implemented in the wm
[20:08]  * mvo preferes "[x] windows title [_][O]"
[20:08] <mvo> destructive action and non-descructive on different sides
[20:09] <Sarvatt> i'm pretty impartial to the new layout but after talking to her about things she liked and didn't like that seemed to be her problem with it, it was awkward for her to go to the top left so often because her hand rested on the right side of the touchpad naturally
[20:11] <Sarvatt> just got me curious if its more natural for someone left handed, but then again the touchpad scroll area is on the right which alot of people use heavily
[20:11] <mvo> zyga, kenvandine: what does  gconftool -g /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/switch_windows_backward
[20:11] <mvo>  print?
Tab
[20:12] <mvo> chrisccoulson: the real fix for this would be make compiz match the metacity behavior more exactly
[20:12] <zyga> mvo: isn't this setting only used when you disable destkop-effects?
[20:12] <mvo> zyga: compiz should pick that up, it has a metacity compat mode
[20:12] <zyga> mvo: it's not
[20:12] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i don't think compiz picks that up any more
[20:13] <mvo> chrisccoulson:  hm, why?
[20:13]  * mvo checks the source
[20:13] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i'm not sure. it caused some confusion with gnome-keybinding-properties a while ago, because that only adjusted the metacity settings
[20:14] <chrisccoulson> but now gnome-keybinding-properties checks the WM in use and uses the WM specific keys
[20:14] <chrisccoulson> the metacity keys have no effect when using compiz now
[20:14] <Sarvatt> mvo: didn't think of that.. close, window title, minimize, maximize would be a SWEET layout, min/max is all i really use
[20:15] <mvo> Sarvatt: I use this layout for years, I don't mind really if left or right, but on different sides :)
[20:15] <mvo> chrisccoulson: I see
[20:15] <chrisccoulson> mvo - actually, i take that back ;)
[20:16] <mvo> zyga: right, this is a bug we need to fix, could you check if its already in LP and if not file it? then I target it for beta-2
[20:16] <chrisccoulson> the xml files that compiz ships for gnome-keybinding-properties all have metacity keys in them
[20:16] <mvo> and let the desktop team fix it ;)
[20:16] <zyga> mvo: sure, just a second
[20:16] <mvo> chrisccoulson: yeah, back in the days we decided to make them use the same keys to be able to switch back/forth
[20:17] <mvo> chrisccoulson: and I see nothing in the changelog that indicates that compiz changed
[20:18] <zyga> it's filed, quite a lot of times actually, I'll check for dupes
[20:19] <mvo> zyga: heh :) ok
[20:20] <mvo> oh joy! I think I found it, look like a *typo*
[20:20] <zyga> one thing less to worry about
[20:22]  * mvo testbuilds
[20:22] <zyga> I found at least 150702, 326199, 480413, 454337
[20:22] <zyga> I'll be right back
[20:23] <mvo> #150702 sounds like the first
[20:24]  * mvo needs to leave for the evening
[20:34]  * zyga is back
[20:45] <pitti> seb128: hah, I just got my 30th "fix committed" task on my +assignedbugs :-P *throwing bug # gauntlet harder*
[20:45]  * pitti hugs seb128
[20:51]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[20:52] <seb128> pitti, did you fix the multiple layout thing?
[20:52] <pitti> seb128: not yet
[20:52] <seb128> pitti, in any case impressive number of bugs fixed you rock!
[20:53] <seb128> I've quite some in the queue but I don't think that many
[20:53] <seb128> pitti, any clue when you are likely to unfreeze?
[20:53] <seb128> I'm always a bit nervous about letting zillion of updates in on a friday
[20:53] <pitti> seb128: beta release was postponed until tomorrow noon
[20:53] <pitti> (see u-d-a)
[20:53] <seb128> :-(
[20:54] <pitti> so I hope tomorrow afternoon
[20:54] <seb128> suck
[20:54] <pitti> we can probalby also delay until Monday..
[20:54] <pitti> but as long as we can just upload, it shouldn't be a big deal
[20:54] <seb128> it's the perfect time to have breakage landing one hour after everybody left for the weekend
[20:54] <cjohnston> noon utc?
[20:55] <pitti> yes, so I heared
[20:55] <seb128> anyway uploads are meant to be bug fixes by now
[20:55] <seb128> let's see how it goes
[20:55] <seb128> I'm also eager to get some of the fixes in
[20:55] <pitti> so am I
[20:57] <seb128> pitti, I also need you to teach me some of your *disks wisdom at some point
[20:58] <pitti> seb128: what are you interested in in particular?
[20:58] <seb128> I've a vague picture of the stack but I miss some details
[20:58] <seb128> like what gdu is doing
[20:58] <seb128> I though the chain was udev -> udisks -> gvfs
[20:58] <seb128> I'm not sure how the icon thing got fixed by gdu
[20:59] <pitti> ah, so gdu is (1) a gobject library interface to udisks
[21:00] <seb128> also I'm not sure if things like "usb disk is not mounted on boot" are bugs or policy and if it's up to udisks to do things like mounting or delegated to nautilus for everything
[21:00] <pitti> which e. g. abstracts away whether it was devicekit-disks, udisks, or whether a new property came from udev, etc.
[21:00] <pitti> and (2) a set of GTK widgets for GNOME programs which deal with storage devices
[21:00] <pitti> primarily palimpsest
[21:00] <pitti> seb128: gvfs knows nothing about udisks directly
[21:01] <pitti> I'm not sure why davidz did that extra layer
[21:01] <pitti> upower builds libupower-glib itself
[21:01] <seb128> I knew about the ui part of gdu
[21:01] <pitti> whereas gdu is a separate project
[21:01] <pitti> but both are essentially convenience/gobject wrappers around the u* d-bus services
[21:01] <seb128> I see
[21:02] <pitti> seb128: if you ever programmed d-bus stuff in C, you'll appreciate :)
[21:02] <pitti> seb128: so, udisks, upower, etc. do not have _any_ policy (by design)
[21:03] <seb128> not so much programmed than read and tried to debug some dbus code in C
[21:03] <pitti> they provide detection, notification, and methods for actions (mount, etc.)
[21:03] <pitti> all the policy (i. e. how to connect events to actions) is done exclusively by the user session
[21:03] <pitti> g-p-m is steering upower, with configuration
[21:03] <pitti> likewise, nautilus is steering volume handling, with configuration
[21:04] <infestor> hi
[21:04] <infestor> i am gonna reinstall ubuntu but one question
[21:04] <pitti> seb128: policy-wise, we want to automount everything which is removable, and nothing which is a fixed disk
[21:04] <infestor> win 7 has a partition called system reserved
[21:04] <infestor> if i remove it will grub know that there is a  win 7 installation?
[21:04] <seb128> pitti, do we want to automount things like usb stick plugged in at boot?
[21:05] <pitti> seb128: I think we should automount it, but not pop up nautilus windows for it (that would be confusing)
[21:05] <seb128> infestor, try #ubuntu
[21:05] <seb128> pitti, ok, make sense, thanks
[21:06] <pitti> seb128: if you are curious, grab d-feet and play around with udisks' objects -- it should be quite self-explanatory
[21:06] <seb128> pitti, I'm still a bit confused about some point but I don't want to abuse too much in one day ;-)
[21:06] <pitti> seb128: "abuse"?
[21:06] <seb128> well ask too many questions in one day
[21:06] <seb128> it's already late and you probably have other things to do
[21:06] <seb128> I will keep the next ones for an another day ;-)
[21:07] <pitti> seb128: as you wish, but I'm not under stress right now
[21:07] <pitti> just cleaning my bugs inbox a bit, and fixing easy stuff while I'm at it :)
[21:07] <seb128> or maybe I should read some udev, udisks code
[21:07]  * pitti needs to cheat a little and do trivial fixes to catch up
[21:08] <pitti> seb128: do you know the role of hal in the old world, wrt. mount handling?
[21:08] <seb128> pitti, udev and udisks properties seems a bit overlapping to me, I'm not sure why udev is not used directly ie by gdu to know if a device is a media player
[21:08] <pitti> ah
[21:08] <seb128> pitti, sort of yes
[21:08] <pitti> seb128: so, we could do that
[21:09] <pitti> seb128: basically, udisks is the storage portion of hal, conceptually
[21:09] <pitti> done right this time :) but still the same idea: provide a PolicyKit controlled D-Bus service to get storage device detection signals and methods for mounting, formatting, partitioning, etc.
[21:10] <pitti> seb128: the reason why gdu doesn't use udev directly is that udev is linux specific
[21:10] <seb128> right, that part makes sense to me
[21:10] <pitti> seb128: so, upower has a bsd backend, there's one in preparation for udisks
[21:10] <pitti> the d-bus APIs of u* are not platform dependent
[21:10] <seb128> it's rather all the properties handling which seems weird, it seems udev usually has what you need so why adding a layer?
[21:10] <pitti> but udev is
[21:10] <seb128> oh
[21:10] <seb128> ok, now that makes sense to
[21:11] <pitti> seb128: it's mainly a "clean layering" thing
[21:11] <pitti> udev <-> udisks <-> gdu <-> gvfs
[21:11] <seb128> so udisks is the abstraction layer
[21:11] <seb128> and udev the backend
[21:11] <pitti> so you can change/replace udev without changing a bit in gdu
[21:12] <pitti> seb128: well, udisks is not just abstraction (it adds all the services like Mount(), FilesystemCreate() and policykit control), but basically yes
[21:12] <seb128> and gdu the nice user interfaces app writters should use
[21:12] <pitti> right, because using d-bus directly is a PITA in C at least
[21:12] <seb128> -user
[21:12] <pitti> and gobject is love :)
[21:12] <seb128> ;-)
[21:12] <pitti> seb128: so it's udisks -> libgdu
[21:12] <pitti> upower -> libupower-glib
[21:13] <pitti> udev -> libgudev
[21:13] <seb128> so for things like icon names udisks is basically reading udev properties
[21:13] <pitti> seb128: right, it's just passing them through
[21:13] <pitti> its udev .rules currently has three rules for icosn
[21:13] <pitti> but teuf and I got rid of two of them today in m-p-i
[21:13] <pitti> (where they belong)
[21:13] <seb128> it's weird that for the ipod bug the icon was different in the udevadm and udisks dump then
[21:13] <pitti> was it?
[21:14] <pitti> I didn't see that
[21:14] <pitti> modulo the devicekit-disks property, which was due to a local .rules file of your's
[21:14]  * seb128 looks to log
[21:15] <pitti> seb128: FWIW I agree to you that four layers is actually quite much
       E: DKD_PRESENTATION_ICON_NAME=multimedia-player-apple-ipod-nano-white
[21:15] <seb128>  <seb128>         presentation icon:           multimedia-player
[21:15] <pitti> right
         themed icons:  [drive-removable-media-usb]  [drive-removable-media]  [drive-removable]  [drive]
[21:15] <pitti> the second line is from udisks
[21:15] <seb128> that's what I had before the gdu update
[21:15] <pitti> which doesn't care about DKD_
[21:15] <pitti> adn the third line was the gdu bug
[21:16] <pitti> I suppose it was something trivial like s/DKD_/UDISKS_/ :)
[21:16] <seb128> what is DKD_PRESENTATION_ICON_NAME then?
[21:16] <pitti> seb128: DKD -> devicekit-disks, the old name of udisks
[21:16] <seb128> but udev didn't change?
[21:16] <pitti> no, it didn't
[21:16] <seb128> oh, the .udev is from gdu?
[21:16] <pitti> seb128: the .rules file that you had left in /etc/ was from devicekit-disks
[21:17] <pitti> i. e. it still added the DKD_ property, but nothign was using it any more
[21:17] <seb128> ah ok
[21:17] <seb128> so pure noise
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i find some parts of the gvfs/gdu/udisks stack quite confusing too ;)
[21:18] <pitti> right
[21:18] <seb128> pitti, ok, I think now it does make sense, thanks a lot
[21:18] <seb128> I might be able to handle some of those bugs now
[21:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: conceptually, it's one layer too much indeed
[21:18] <seb128> instead of Cc-ing you every time
[21:18] <pitti> if we only had linux, then it would be three, I guess :)
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> at some point, i would like to spend some time understanding it ;)
[21:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: last 20 mins of scrollback might help :)
[21:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but of course you are always welcome to ask me
[21:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that's what I'm doing tonight :p
[21:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i just had a look
[21:20] <seb128> pitti, is your u5 working in rhythmbox now btw?
[21:20] <pitti> if you ever wonder about the API (dbus/glib), the -doc packages don't suck too much
[21:21] <pitti> seb128: yes, like a charm
[21:21] <pitti> seb128: and with m-p-i now also in gvfs/nautilus
[21:21] <seb128> pitti, what is done with m-p-i?
[21:22] <pitti> I convinced upstream to do a new release today *hehe*
[21:22] <seb128> I guess it uses DeviceMatch to set something
[21:22] <pitti> seb128: oh, it's the music player portion of hal-info now, again "done right"
[21:22] <seb128> but what part of the stack read those infos or how they passed through?
[21:22] <pitti> seb128: have a look at /lib/udev/rules.d/40-usb-media-players.rules
[21:22] <seb128> like
[21:22] <seb128> [Device]
[21:22] <seb128> Product=Yepp YP-35
[21:22] <seb128> Vendor=Samsung
[21:22] <seb128> AccessProtocol=storage
[21:22] <seb128> DeviceMatch=usb:04e8:5010;
[21:22] <pitti> seb128: ok, that's an .mpi file
[21:23] <seb128> I guess it matches the usb id
[21:23] <pitti> seb128: mpi is two parts
[21:23] <seb128> right, it's /usr/share/media-player-info/samsung-yepp_yp-35.mpi
[21:23] <pitti> seb128: (1) udev rules which tag particular hardware (vendor/product ID usually) with ID_MUSIC_PLAYER="name"
[21:23] <pitti> /lib/udev/rules.d/40-usb-media-players.rules
[21:23] <pitti> oh, sorry, in lucid it's still 90_, I think
[21:23] <seb128> yes it is
[21:23]  * pitti moved it to 40 in mpi 5
[21:23] <pitti> lucid is old, dammit!
[21:24] <seb128> hehe
[21:24] <seb128> don't tell me!
[21:24] <hyperair> does anyone here have avahi-daemon taking up 50% cpu?
[21:24] <pitti> seb128: the knowledge that a device is a media player is enough for things like gvfs
[21:24] <seb128> hyperair, no
[21:24] <pitti> seb128: and for a music player like banshee or rhythmbox, it takes the value of ID_MEDIA_PLAYER
[21:24] <hyperair> seb128: it seems to keep polling a bad fd.
[21:24] <pitti> seb128: and opens /usr/share/media-player-info/<name>.mpi
[21:24] <pitti> seb128: to read formats, and other details
[21:25] <seb128> ah ok
[21:25] <pitti> seb128: so, forget .fdis
[21:25] <seb128> so the udev rules
[21:25] <seb128> ATTRS{idVendor}=="04e8" , ATTRS{idProduct}=="5021" , ENV{ID_MEDIA_PLAYER}="samsung-yepp_yp-st5"
[21:25] <seb128> for example
[21:25] <pitti> everything that should identify/match hardware and tag it for userspace is done with udev rules these days
[21:25] <pitti> seb128: correct
[21:25] <seb128> it means that udev export the ENV when ATTRS match?
[21:26] <pitti> seb128: udev is trimmed for being super fast on evaluating large rules files
[21:26] <pitti> seb128: right; == -> comparison, = -> assignment, like in C
[21:26] <seb128> ie the udevadm dump will have ID_MEDIA_PLAYER="samsung-yepp_yp-st5" if a 04e8:5021 is detected?
[21:26] <pitti> seb128: ATTRS -> sysfs attributes, which come straight from the hardware through the kernel
[21:26] <pitti> attributes are _only_ in sysfs, and _not_ in udev's brain
[21:27] <pitti> udev has convenience APIs to access them, but it doesn't store them
[21:27] <pitti> udev itself can store "properties" for each device
[21:27] <pitti> ENV{}, and what you see as "E:" in udevadm info --export-db
[21:27] <pitti> those can be set (arbitrarily) by rules (sysfs attributes are readonly)
[21:28] <seb128> ok, now I've an overview of this stacke
[21:28] <seb128> stack
[21:28] <seb128> enough to look around and figure remaining details
[21:28] <seb128> pitti, thanks a lot!
[21:28]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[21:32] <pitti> seb128, chrisccoulson: http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Kay-Sievers-David-Zeuthen-plugging-the-modern-desktop.pdf is really good, BTW
[21:34] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[21:35] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[21:35] <seb128> hey TheMuso
[21:36] <vish> dobey: if you need any new icons added in humanity let me know, we can probably squeeze it in with the software store icons..
[21:38] <pitti> vish, dobey: ah, did the two of you talk about the misnamed media-player-ipod icons?
[21:45] <seb128> pitti, ok, u3 issue solved
[21:45] <seb128> pitti, upstream forgot to add the mtpdevice option to the schemas
[21:45] <seb128> so mtp is off by default
[21:46] <seb128> works better after setting the gconf key!
[21:46] <pitti> :)
[21:46] <pitti> yay
[21:46]  * pitti waves good night, 'nuff for today
[21:47] <pitti> bonsoir, mes amis!
[21:47] <pitti> or, "bon nuit", I think :)
[21:47] <seb128> pitti, bonne nuit!
[21:47] <pitti> bon, bonne, argh :)
[21:47] <seb128> ;-)
[21:47] <seb128> see you tomorrow
[21:47] <seb128> sleep well
[21:50] <RAOF> Good morning, sleepyheads :)
[21:50] <seb128> hey RAOF rob
[21:50] <seb128> hey RAOF robert_ancell
[21:51] <robert_ancell> seb128, 'ello
[21:51] <RAOF> 'ello 'ello!
[21:52] <RAOF> This poor laptop really wants some decruftifying.
[21:53] <TheMuso> heh
[21:54] <RAOF> I might take it apart and blow the dust out, too. 70℃ is perhaps a bit hot to be idling.
[21:54] <rickspencer3> hi RAOF
[21:54] <rickspencer3> so good tip on The Cat Empire
[21:54] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Good morning.
[21:54] <rickspencer3> haven't hear third wave ska in some years ;)
[21:55] <RAOF> :)
[21:58] <TheMuso> Yeah, the cat empire are an awesome group. Haven't had a chance to hear them live, but they are supposed to be very good. Not all of their stuff catches my fancy, but overall I do like their sound a lot.
[21:59] <RAOF> Oh, man.  Next time they play in Sydney, go! :)
[21:59] <rickspencer3> I see they will be touring Europe in October
[21:59] <rickspencer3> and be in UK area around 10.10 release time
[22:00] <rickspencer3> maybe we could get them to play in the boat across from millbank for a release party ;)
[22:00] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Try to book them for the 10.10 release party? ;)
[22:00]  * rickspencer3 whips out credit card
[22:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks for the link
[22:02] <chrisccoulson> right, i am moving in to the lounge for the rest of the evening
[22:08] <chrisccoulson> urgh, consolekit has messed up on me
[22:08] <chrisccoulson> i just booted and apparently i'm not on the active console
[22:16] <chrisccoulson> well, that was weird
[22:21] <rickspencer3> seb128, bryceh have either of you noticed that sometimes notify-osd leaves a little line your monitor?
[22:22] <seb128> no
[22:24] <bryceh> rickspencer3, I've not seen that
[22:25] <rickspencer3> seb128, do with it what you will:
[22:25] <rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/541558
[22:25] <rickspencer3> I kinda suspect it's some weird compiz issue or something
[22:25] <rickspencer3> but I put it on notify-osd
[22:27] <seb128> yeah, it's weird
[22:27] <seb128> brb gnome-keyring behave weirdly, session restart
[23:03] <seb128> hum
[23:03] <seb128> is there any way to make g_debug quiet?
[23:03] <seb128> like turn it off to not print anything in some way?
[23:11] <robert_ancell> seb128, g_log_set_default_handler?
[23:12] <robert_ancell> seb128, or looking for an environment variable?
[23:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, right, I was wondering if there was an easier way like a define to turn those off or something
[23:14] <seb128> robert_ancell, context is that some dx package is flooding .xsession-errors with debug infos
[23:15] <seb128> I was pondering dropping the g_debug calls from the source
[23:15] <seb128> it seems mostly things they added while writting it, not really things which would be useful in a debug log
[23:15] <seb128> I will check with them tomorrow
[23:15] <robert_ancell> I'd recommend setting g_log_set_default_handler and filtering them out (see simple-scan source for how to do this)
[23:16] <seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
[23:40] <ronoc> TheMuso: hey Luke !
[23:43] <ronoc> TheMuso: what is your skype name ? have a minute for a very quick skype catch up ?
[23:45] <TheMuso> ronoc: Currently don't have skype installed sorry, and I have no functional headset atm
[23:46] <ronoc> TheMuso: no worries
[23:46] <ronoc> TheMuso: so I have been asked to draft a document for the upcoming lucid + 1
[23:46] <TheMuso> ronoc: Right.
[23:47] <TheMuso> ronoc: atm all I know that is certain is updating the whole stack to the latest available versions, and trying to get jack2 to replace jack, and integrate with pulse.
[23:47] <ronoc> TheMuso: cool that is what I was going to suggest aswell
[23:47] <crimsun> there's a GSoC proposal for that last bit
[23:48] <ronoc> TheMuso: I tried jack today with ardour on lucid and everything seemed to be fine ??
[23:48] <TheMuso> ronoc: cool
[23:48] <ronoc> TheMuso: once I start qjackctrl all audio playback paused ?
[23:48] <TheMuso> ronoc: playback from what? qjackctl atm calls pasuspender
[23:48] <ronoc> TheMuso: oh okay that would explain it
[23:49] <ronoc> TheMuso: the playback was from rhythmbox
[23:49] <TheMuso> ok
[23:49] <ronoc> TheMuso: that all makes sense now
[23:50] <ronoc> TheMuso: so for my document aside from what the current set up is (with qjackctl calling pasuspender) what are our benefits for jack2
[23:50] <ronoc> TheMuso: proper dbus integration ?
[23:50] <TheMuso> ronoc: Jack being able to work accross multiple CPUs/cores, and dbus integration, including with rtkit.
[23:50] <ronoc> TheMuso: okay understood
[23:51] <ronoc> TheMuso: i need to check the changelogs - stephane has been busy :)
[23:51] <TheMuso> So to start things off, we need to kick off discussions with Debian about jack2 and package namespace. I'll do that either later today or tomorrow.
[23:52] <ronoc> TheMuso: okay cool I'll mention you are on the case with that
[23:52] <TheMuso> I'll CC ronoc, crimsun, and anyone else interested in that discussion.
[23:52] <ronoc> sound
[23:52] <TheMuso> Probably persia as well
[23:53] <ronoc> TheMuso: I was also going to push for some updates to rhythmbox, the inclusion of some sort of spotify replacement (songbird ? - although i heard they went broke)
[23:54] <TheMuso> ronoc: ah ok, I'm not really involved with that stuff. I'm more concerned re low level userspace.
[23:54] <ronoc> TheMuso: grand
[23:55] <RAOF> I wonder if Banshee might finally be ready for 10.10; there's some nice stuff there, particularly if the Cubano netbook interface gets some love.
[23:55] <ronoc> TheMuso: very much suggestions stage right now , if you have any suggestions please feel free to send them to me or Dbarth or just update the wiki page which I will send to you tmrw
[23:55] <TheMuso> ronoc: Will do.
[23:58] <ronoc> TheMuso: great - better call it a night - just went to a great gig http://www.myspace.com/clangsayne - talk soon.
[23:58] <ronoc> g'd night
[23:58] <TheMuso> ronoc: night and sounds good.