[00:02] <kermit> Takyoji: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerdcore_hip_hop
[00:16]  * Takyoji listens to some Dual Core
[00:30] <JChristensen> is that like seven fifths
[00:30] <JChristensen> ?
[00:42] <Takyoji> Never heard of it
[00:45] <JChristensen> my mistake severed fifth
[00:45] <JChristensen> jono's band
[00:47] <Takyoji> jonobacon?
[00:48] <JChristensen> yeah
[00:48]  * Takyoji digs around in curiosity
[00:48] <JChristensen> www.severedfifth.com
[00:52] <JChristensen> Seeing as he's a one man band guess it would be more like Single Core.... <- lame joke
[00:53] <Takyoji> :P
[01:43] <Takyoji> I find it surprising that some things on YouTube are available in 1080p
[01:44] <kermit> Takyoji: wow, like what?
[01:45] <Takyoji> I've noticed some music videos, and other things in 1080p
[01:45] <Takyoji> i.e. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yvEYKRF5IA
[01:46] <Takyoji> (note: mild sexual themes at the end)
[01:47]  * JChristensen rushes to end ... j/k
[01:47] <kermit> Takyoji: it doesnt seem to be able to serve it that fast
[01:47] <Takyoji> serves in under like 3 seconds for me
[01:48] <kermit> Takyoji: the whole video is loaded in 3 seconds for you?
[01:48] <Takyoji> For reasonable buffering yes, the entire video, no.
[01:49] <kermit> ohh
[01:49] <kermit> it's not serving it fast enough to me
[01:50] <JChristensen> 1.5MB Dsl its out of the question for me
[01:50] <Takyoji> I believe I have 10Mb/s
[01:50]  * Takyoji wonders if JChristensen is relatively new to the channel or not
[01:51]  * JChristensen is
[01:51] <kermit> not even 720p serves fast enough
[01:52] <JChristensen> I did figure out how to save youtube videos though
[01:52] <Takyoji> Just snatching it from the /tmp folder, or using a web browser plugin?
[01:53] <Takyoji> Otherwise which region of Minnesota are you of?
[01:53]  * Takyoji is in Faribault
[01:53] <JChristensen> Owatonna
[01:54] <JChristensen> right down the road
[01:54] <Takyoji> Ooo
[01:54] <Takyoji> For once I have someone that's somewhat nearby. :P
[01:55] <kermit> wow, is anyone here from minneapolis?
[01:55] <Takyoji> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MinnesotaTeam
[01:55] <mr_steve> kermit, yo.
[01:55] <kermit> i think obsidian is
[01:55] <Takyoji> I think a majority of the members are
[01:55] <Takyoji> or the general metro region
[01:55] <kermit> h00k is in duluth
[01:55] <JChristensen> talked to a couple from mpls on here
[01:56] <Takyoji> otherwise I'm still in decision of an installfest for the south area of Minnesota
[01:56] <Takyoji> but still haven't found a location
[01:56] <JChristensen> I have a client with a T1 right next to a coffee shop
[01:57] <JChristensen> might be able to talk them into letting me put a wifi router on the t1
[02:04] <tonyyarusso> Of people that I know where they live, we currently have 4 people in here from the Duluth/Superior and NE area, one or two from the south, and the rest are Metro.
[02:05] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: if you have as few people as you claim, you could just go to Perkins, so don't let me hear you whinin' about location ;)
[02:05] <Takyoji> I barely know of anyone whom would attend. :P
[02:06] <Takyoji> and Perkins has no electrical plugins nor wireless access (in my town/city)
[02:06] <tonyyarusso> So do it sans computers.
[02:08] <Takyoji> an installfest without computers? :o
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> It doesn't need to be an installfest.
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> If you want to do that, do that, but don't not have an event because you couldn't do that.
[02:13] <JChristensen> Takyoji: There is a lucid release party in st paul on 4-24
[02:14] <Takyoji> April 24?
[02:14] <JChristensen> http://www.penguinsunbound.com/Future_Meetings
[02:15] <Takyoji> Yea, I go to each of those.
[02:15] <Takyoji> I'd just like to additionally have something local
[02:16] <Takyoji> As it's an hour for me to Minneapolis, and for others in like Owatonna, Mankato, and so on, it's like 2 hours.
[02:16] <JChristensen> Unfortunatly there isn't enough people down here
[02:17] <Takyoji> But if done in Faribault, that would mean anyone in those cities would have less than a 1 hour transit.
[02:18] <JChristensen> But i am working on changing that
[02:25]  * JChristensen thinks the meetings should be at the Minneapolis Town Hall Brewery
[02:26]  * Takyoji wonders if he'd be of admittance to such a facility. :P
[02:27] <tonyyarusso> Wait, April 24th??
[02:27] <JChristensen> thats what their website says
[02:28] <Takyoji> I believe that's before the release of 10.04
[02:28]  * tonyyarusso thinks Brian really needs to learn to actually check the darn release date
[02:28] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: it is.
[02:28] <Takyoji> Which yes, don't make sense
[02:28] <Takyoji> doesn't*
[02:28] <tonyyarusso> This is like the fourth time he's done that.
[02:28] <Takyoji> Hah
[02:28] <JChristensen> LOL
[02:28] <Takyoji> Here you go https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule :P
[02:28] <Takyoji> Erm
[02:28] <Takyoji> Wrong one
[02:29] <Takyoji> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[02:29] <Takyoji> There
[02:29] <Takyoji> April 29th
[02:30] <tonyyarusso> e-mail sent
[02:36] <JChristensen> so whats your guy's opinion on the buttons on the left
[02:36] <JChristensen> ?
[02:36] <Takyoji> I'm indifferent. However, in care of those I help, it's a little questionable.
[02:37] <Takyoji> Thing is, the justification is that supposedly they're first moving the buttons the left in 10.04, and in 10.10 they'll experiment with something new in the right side of the window
[02:37] <Takyoji> Yet, I don't see how the buttons could just be on the right, and anything experimentally new could just be on the left instead
[02:38] <tonyyarusso> JChristensen: It's evil and must die.
[02:38] <JChristensen> ahh i'm sure i'll get used to it but its kind of annoying thus far
[02:38] <Takyoji> I'm fine with it, but again, for the people I support Ubuntu for, probably not.
[02:38] <Takyoji> Look at how people crap a brick over some layout changes on Facebook for example
[02:39] <Takyoji> that are logical improvements
[02:39] <JChristensen> more agreeing with tony on that one
[02:39] <Takyoji> I also just don't see much justification to the idea however (of the button realignment)
[02:39] <Takyoji> and we're such nerds for freaking out over such matters. :P
[02:42] <Takyoji> I understand however that the hotspot of view is always the top-left region
[02:42] <Takyoji> and may be a beneficial attribute for completely new computer users
[02:43] <Takyoji> that's the only justification I can think of (even though that's not what they implied publicly at all)
[02:43] <JChristensen> Every OS has them on the right, i'm used to them being on the right, i dont see anything good about moving them
[02:43] <Takyoji> I believe OS X is on the left
[02:44] <Takyoji> (of course, I haven't touched a Mac in probably a year)
[02:44] <JChristensen> great next thing you know there will only be 1 mouse button
[02:44] <Takyoji> :P
[02:44] <Adremelech> your right, its on the left in os x
[02:44] <Takyoji> It's Ubuntu OS X
[02:45] <Takyoji> *cough hint* Ubuntu 10.04 *cough*
[02:45] <Takyoji> Note: 10
[02:45] <Takyoji> :P
[02:45] <Adremelech> i like the buttons on the left just because im used to using a macbook
[02:45] <Adremelech> it did take a bit to get used to though on my desktop
[02:45] <Takyoji> What I think should be absolutely necessary though is:
[02:45] <JChristensen> havn't touched a mac in over 5 years
[02:46] <Takyoji> Instead of forcing it back to the right. Give the person a CHOICE on the Appearance dialog between left or right.
[02:46] <JChristensen> good call Takyoji
[02:46] <Takyoji> By all means, it could be set to right on a default installation
[02:46] <JChristensen> that was the first thing i looked for
[02:46] <Adremelech> Takyoji, i think you can edit the layout using gconf-editor
[02:47] <Takyoji> It just seems that Ubuntu is degrading to a form of sacrificing choice in favor of "simplicity"
[02:47] <Takyoji> Whereas when you want to derive from the norm, it's over complexified than it should be.
[02:47] <Takyoji> at least you have the general option to an extent however
[02:48] <Takyoji> Unlike Windows where the layout of the taskbar is practically hard-coded
[02:48] <Takyoji> I mean,
[02:48] <JChristensen> Everything windows is hard coded
[02:49] <Takyoji> Windows is an example of severing choice for the favor of simplicity.
[02:51] <Takyoji> It's just irritating that developers conceive the idea of over-simplifying things, when there isn't really much in return.
[02:52] <JChristensen> Have to dumb things down, havent you seen idocracy
[02:52] <Takyoji> I have certainly seen Idiocracy. 2 days ago in fact. :P
[02:52] <JChristensen> great show
[02:54] <Takyoji> The best useful simplication in 10.04 however would be the new scanner GUI, replacing the archaic XSane interface.
[02:54] <Takyoji> Which brings complete joy to me
[02:54] <Takyoji> Because it just makes me cringe watching a new user try to use XSane to scan documents.
[02:54] <Takyoji> But it has electrolytes!
[02:56] <JChristensen> Brother offers scan to FTP on network models. Excellent alternative to xsane in the past
[02:57] <Takyoji> Why not SFTP? :o
[02:58] <Takyoji> But yea, it's beautiful have a level of abstraction like such
[02:58] <Takyoji> where all you need is a LAN connection to scan a document
[02:58] <Takyoji> without having to deal with the drivers and so forth.
[02:58] <JChristensen> They offer a driver for that too
[02:59] <JChristensen> works with xsane over LAN
[03:00] <JChristensen> Nice to see companies offering linux drivers and support for a change
[03:00] <Takyoji> A good golf clap in appreciation of HP, as one example.
[03:00] <Takyoji> (or at least for releasing specifications for drivers to be built)
[03:01] <JChristensen> Epson was a nightmare to deal with
[03:06]  * JChristensen is out of here "See ya later"
[03:06] <Takyoji> Bye
[03:10] <Takyoji> Just be sure to return eventually (some day). :P
[03:11] <Takyoji> Haaah http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/03/17/2218208/Disgruntled-Ex-Employee-Remotely-Disables-100-Cars
[03:11] <Takyoji> It just gives such a similar feeling to DRM
[03:17] <Takyoji> Is it possible to run a VM in VirtualBox "headless"? Or in other words, running the background, without a GUI.
[03:18] <mr_steve> Takyoji, I dunno about OSE, but I was doing precisely that with the proprietary version
[03:18] <Takyoji> How do you set it up in the proprietary version?
[03:19] <mr_steve> You can start a VM from the command line, I forget the exact incantation but it has something to do with VBoxManage
[03:19] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:19] <mr_steve> VBoxManage --startvm <name> -t rdp or something like that, to tell it that the console should be on the built-in RDP server
[03:20] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:20] <mr_steve> or -d vrdp, maybe. I dunno. I switched to VMWare because VirtualBox fails at DOS
[03:21] <Takyoji> Which type of DOS? :P
[03:22] <mr_steve> heheh one results in the other in this case. Try running some old DOS apps in a WinXP VirtualBox. Some of them will lock up the entire VirtualBox process, requiring a kill -9 on the host.
[03:23] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:24] <mr_steve> It was BBS door games in my case. I was running a telnetable BBS on VirtualBox, and most of the old games would bring the whole thing to a halt. DOS apps also run real slow, for some reason.
[03:44] <kermit> mr_steve: did you try booting DOS directly?
[03:44] <kermit> ..inside virtualbox
[03:47] <Takyoji> OR, just using DOSBox, probably would have been the most sane. :P
[03:47] <Takyoji> I don't think there's issues with the emulation of DOSBox
[03:57] <mr_steve> eh the problem was the BBS runs on windows, but the games were all old DOS progs
[04:03] <kermit> mr_steve: huh, how did they communicate with DOS programs then?  if by TCP, then maybe you could still run it on seperate virtual machines
[04:17] <mr_steve> kermit, they talked via FOSSIL driver, these DOS programs were designed to talk to a modem directly, and the BBS software had a driver that pretended to be a modem.
[04:17] <mr_steve> I'm happy with it on VMWare for now, until I get around to migrating it to linux native. The BBS will run on linux, with the door games running in a patched version of DOSemu
[04:19] <kermit> what games?
[04:20] <mr_steve> Legend of The Red Dragon, Tradewars 2002, a few others whose names escape me
[04:20] <kermit> woo
[04:20] <kermit> i wrote a client for tradewars
[04:20] <kermit> there's a 1994 movie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Red_Dragon_%28film%29
[04:22] <kermit> hmm i just realized BBSes alwasy had much cooler names than websites.
[04:22] <mr_steve> definitely
[04:23] <kermit> i assume you've found bbsmates.com right?
[04:23] <mr_steve> yeah I've checked it out once or twice
[04:27] <kermit> wow i'm on their BBS.. man i've spent a lot of time online in my life.
[04:34] <kermit> (memories!)
[04:36] <kermit> nice it even simulates 2400 baud
[04:51] <kermit> mr_steve: wow, plaiyng BBS doors reminds me of when i was young enough to not have to worry about paying rent.
[04:52] <kermit> or in any other way/shape/form valuing my time ;)
[16:30] <h00k> kermit: Superior, but Duluth is right across the bridge
[17:16] <netbook> ls
[17:16] <netbook> oops heh
[18:07] <bdunnette> So where's that Lucid beta I've been itching to get my hands on?
[19:00] <netbook> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[19:00] <netbook> maybe that's what you want
[19:01] <netbook> I had problems with installing guest additions on Lucis in VirtualBox
[19:02] <netbook> I think I will be sticking with koala for a while
[19:29] <Obsidian1723> What is everyone's thoughts here on the changing of the order of buttons and also the move ovfer to the left hand side? Anyone tried Lucid yet?
[20:01] <Obsidian1723> What is everyone's thoughts here on the changing of the order of buttons and also the move over to the left hand side? Anyone tried Lucid yet?Is the whole minimize, max, close button order and left hand move only in Ubuntu or is that in Gnome?
[20:10] <bdunnette> Obsidian1723: FWIW, Shuttleworth has said that, though consistency's a problem with free desktops, he's standing behind the leftward shift: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/218
[20:10] <ubot3> Malone bug 532633 in metacity "[light-theme] please revert the order of the window controls back to "menu:minimize,maximize,close"" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:10] <Obsidian1723> yeah I know
[20:11] <Obsidian1723> We will need to hack the gconf and use Remastersys to make an ISO
[20:11] <Obsidian1723> Joe6pack wont do that.
[20:11] <bdunnette> Until someone packages an "un-Shuttleworth" script -- looks like it's a one-line gconf thing.
[20:12] <Obsidian1723> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
[22:47] <tonyyarusso> I edited the gconf key to fix my button position/order as soon as I found out how.
[22:48] <tonyyarusso> And I can confirm that it can be done with a one-line gconf command.
[22:48] <tonyyarusso> but of course, both of the people who care are gone.
[23:03] <kermit> people join/part a lot in this channel
[23:03] <kermit> i wonder if they're on laptops and fairly mobile
[23:03] <tonyyarusso> I am, but that's what a VPS is for ;)
[23:12] <kermit> tonyyarusso: do you use ZIRC?
[23:13] <kermit> oh you're on the shell, i see
[23:13] <tonyyarusso> kermit: yeah, I just ssh+screen+irssi
[23:13] <kermit> er ZNC not ZIRC
[23:13] <tonyyarusso> Although I also have irssi-proxy set up so I can connect from another client without ssh.
[23:14] <kermit> i'm in about 50 channels, i don't know how i could manage that with a console client
[23:14] <tonyyarusso> I actually find it easier.
[23:14] <kermit> i used BitchX until about 2000
[23:14] <tonyyarusso> I'm only in about 10 right now, but I have used irssi for around 100; works great.
[23:15] <kermit> do you just display one at a time then?
[23:15] <tonyyarusso> Yes, although through the magic of split windows you could do otherwise if you wanted.
[23:15] <kermit> can it split vertically in addition to horizontally?
[23:16] <tonyyarusso> Well, I know screen can; I'm not quite sure how much irssi does internally, but I think so.
[23:16] <netbook> Screen can do that
[23:16] <netbook> right
[23:16] <tonyyarusso> My irssi setup is actually very near a stock config.
[23:16] <netbook> http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssisplit
[23:17] <kermit> my pidgin setup is so non-stock that the pidgin devs say "well what do you expect" whenever it doesnt work right ;)
[23:17] <netbook> Yea, I use ssh+screen+irssi as well
[23:18] <netbook> I suggest giving irssi a shot, along with screen, has made my life much easier
[23:18] <netbook> can be online all the time even though I am logged out as a user
[23:21] <netbook> http://irssi.org/documentation/startup
[23:21] <netbook> and screen is actually byobu or something now, in ubuntu
[23:21] <netbook> don't know why
[23:30] <tonyyarusso> No, screen is screen, byobu is byobu.
[23:32] <tonyyarusso> byobu is profiles for screen, which allows you to customize its appearance in useful ways.  It depends on screen, not replaces it.
[23:32] <netbook> oh ok, that makes sense