[00:00] <BUGabundo> I do use two local mirrors and MAIN
[00:00]  * BUGabundo is a weird person
[00:00] <yofel> heh
[00:00] <MindVirus> yofel: An example: it scrolls all the way down in an IRC channel when you're reading scrollback and someone says something.
[00:00] <MindVirus> And forces it to go all the way down until it's at the bottom.
[00:00] <KB1JWQ> How do I permit restricted drivers without a GUI?
[00:00] <yofel> MindVirus: ok that's bad, IRC support is bad though I've heard
[00:00] <KB1JWQ> Uncomment from /etc/apt/sources.list?
[00:00] <yofel> KB1JWQ: huh?
[00:01] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, you got the thinkpad with discrete graphics instead of intel graphics?
[00:01] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Yeah.
[00:01] <KB1JWQ> This may have been a mistake.
[00:01] <bjsnider> alright, nvidia-current will be updated to the latest nvidia driver in a couple days
[00:01] <MindVirus> yofel: It functions properly for what I've seen (except support is very lackluster). Only thing is the usernames in the users column are too spread out (there's like a 20px padding on each name).
[00:01] <KB1JWQ> I'm sure it'll work really well a year from now, but... :-)
[00:02] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: It just updated on my update run.
[00:02] <MindVirus> KB1JWQ: See what booting up properly will do.
[00:02] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, the 195.36.15 driver isn't int he archive yet
[00:02] <bjsnider> but it will be when the beta freeze is over
[00:03] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: There a way to shoehorn that in?
[00:03] <bjsnider> no
[00:03] <bjsnider> but i'm sure that blob supports your chip
[00:03] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: And that driver incorporates support for the nvs3000m?
[00:03] <bjsnider> or the very next one will
[00:03] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: k.  Guess I'll sit tight until then.
[00:03] <bjsnider> nvidia is very good at adding support for new hardware
[00:04] <KB1JWQ> Thought I've seen a way for people to add that blob without having it officially packaged up?
[00:04] <bjsnider> especially on revenue customers like you
[00:04] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, DO...NOT...TRY...THAT
[00:04] <DanaG> one thing that bugs me about NV (that's also true of ATI): confusing naming.
[00:04] <DanaG> Like, what GPU is an FX 380M?
[00:04] <DanaG> How about 1800M?
[00:05] <bjsnider> DanaG, at least you can't blame the driver team for that crap
[00:05] <DanaG> ATI has similar things, but less confusing at least: FirePro M5800; FirePro M7820.
[00:05] <MindVirus> I'm sure they have their reasons.
[00:05] <bjsnider> that's the marketing department
[00:05] <DanaG> my jab at legacy driver: "3 years ago, the nvidia 96 driver stopped being able to do anything but segfault the X server.  And every year, they update the driver to segfault NEW X servers!"
[00:06] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Why do I not want to try that?
[00:06] <MindVirus> DanaG: Seriously?
[00:06] <DanaG> I also wish the nv blob did "buildpkg" like ATI blob does.
[00:06] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, if you somehow succeed you'll pooch the mesa/xorg system to the degree that you'll have to do a wipe/reload
[00:06] <ToxinPowe> hi guys I have this problem: dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_2.7ubuntu21_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[00:06] <ToxinPowe>  error creating symbolic link `./usr/lib32/libGL.so': No such file or directory
[00:06] <ToxinPowe> anyone can help me please?
[00:06] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: k
[00:06] <jtechidna> DanaG: eventually my legacy got to the point where even it being inserted into the chassis caused modprobe to crash :S
[00:06] <jtechidna> *my legacy card
[00:07] <DanaG> heh, my only non-legacy NV system has a GeForce Go 7600, and a dead LCD.
[00:07] <MindVirus> ToxinPowe: What were you trying to do?
[00:07] <DanaG> And it's louder at idle (minimum fan speed on AC) than my EliteBook is... when playing Crysis!
[00:08] <ToxinPowe> MindVirus, daily update, now I can't install anything :/
[00:08] <DanaG> Gateway also had some silly code in their DSDT:
[00:08] <DanaG> If (ACPI temperature is below 40 C) then (set temperature to 40 C).
[00:10]  * DanaG also wonders how Linux on Tegra / Tegra2 would be.
[00:10] <DanaG> Would that hardware be nouveau-compatible?
[00:12] <DanaG> HP fail: firewire_core: created device fw0: GUID 5566778811223344, S400
[00:12] <DanaG> Means I can't use firewire networking.
[00:13] <yofel> how did it get that ID o.O?
[00:13] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, you could try putting karmic on that laptop and trying the latest blob
[00:13] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Hmm.  Will try.
[00:13] <DanaG> Beats me... it seems to be common among HP laptops.
[00:13] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, the driver is in the nvidia-vdpau ppa
[00:15] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: For karmic or lucid?
[00:15] <vanishing> anyone else cant make plymouth work?
[00:16] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, look: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/NVIDIA_Quadro_NVS_3100M
[00:16] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: OOh.
[00:16] <bjsnider> that means you can wait a couple days untilt he new nvidia-current update is added to the archive
[00:16] <tyranos> vanishing, my plymouth  works  only after i do a sudo apt-get upgrade an restart
[00:16] <bjsnider> until then use vesa
[00:17] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: And I force VESA via...? :-)
[00:17] <bjsnider> xorg.conf
[00:17] <KB1JWQ> k
[00:17] <bjsnider> just replace driver "nvidia" with driver "vesa"
[00:17] <vanishing> tyranos: i did every possible upgrade...not no plymouth showing up during boot up..but it shows when shutting down..
[00:18] <ToxinPowe> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_2.7ubuntu21_amd64.deb (--unpack):
[00:18] <ToxinPowe>  error creating symbolic link `./usr/lib32/libGL.so': No such file or directory
[00:18] <ToxinPowe>  any help plz?
[00:18] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, this is nvidia's fault for that stupid driver bug where they were frying graphics chips. nvidia-current did have the 195 blob at one point
[00:18] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Okay, so there is light at the end of the tunnel.
[00:18] <bjsnider> yep
[00:18] <tyranos> vanishing, mines only works one time after the update but when i reboot it doenst show up i get a black screen and have to hit enter then i get the gdm screen
[00:19] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, i'm sure you can use the excellent windows 7 professional until then
[00:19] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Hmm, all I see is an /etc/X11/xorg.conf.failsafe
[00:19] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Hah, yeah.  That'll happen.
[00:19] <vanishing> tyranos: i dont have the enter issue...only plymouth not showing up..gdm shows up fine..this is not a big issue..but sure isnt pretty
[00:20] <tyranos> DanaG, anybody having issues with mousetweak ?
[00:20] <tyranos> s
[00:22] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, you paid the microsoft tax
[00:22] <vanishing> anyone else dont have plymouth showing during boot up?
[00:22] <vanishing> @.@
[00:22] <KB1JWQ> vanishing: Black screen or what?
[00:22] <vanishing> KB1JWQ: black screen..
[00:22] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Yeah, but I'm going to run that in a virtual machine once I get things sorted out.
[00:23] <vanishing> KB1JWQ: with blinking cursor.
[00:23] <KB1JWQ> vanishing: Oh, like I've been talking about for the last two straight hours?
[00:23] <vanishing> KB1JWQ: btw..both my ati and intel card dont work..
[00:23] <vanishing> KB1JWQ: o ....i wasnt here..
[00:23] <robin0800> vanishing: wait till the beta1 tomorrow
[00:23] <vanishing> KB1JWQ: mind telling me again?
[00:23] <vanishing> robin0800: whats gonna happen?
[00:25] <vanishing> robin0800: i mean...its been like this for a lone time now..the plymouth black screen issue
[00:26] <robin0800> vanishing: there fixing plymouth problems as we speak https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Plymouth
[00:27] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Progress.  Selecting vesa meant that startx suddenly launches the purple desktop, so yay.
[00:27] <vanishing> robin0800: oh..ok..thanks
[00:27] <KB1JWQ> Mouse and keyboard don't work though, so I can't get out of it.  Restart results in balck screen again.
[00:28] <bjsnider> KB1JWQ, that sucks
[00:28] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Not entirely.  startx has never worked before.
[00:29] <KB1JWQ> That config works.
[00:29] <KB1JWQ> I'm just not sure why it's not being used globally.
[00:30] <swoody> probably been asked many times, so please forgive me, but is Beta 1 still planning on being released today?
[00:30] <CalmvsKhaos> look at topic :)
[00:30] <swoody> d'oh, how did I miss that :P
[00:30] <DanaG> weird... plymouth gives me a black screen, instead of a logo.
[00:31] <CalmvsKhaos> ;)
[00:31] <DanaG> It also gives "ureadahead main process (525) terminated with status 5".
[00:31] <swoody> I just read the topic, too. I must have gone blind after 'Alpha 3' :/
[00:34] <KB1JWQ> There a kernel option I can pass to force VESA?
[00:34] <BUGabundo> yes
[00:35] <BUGabundo> ask in #ubuntu-x
[00:35] <BUGabundo> I saw it there the other day
[00:46] <jason> anyone know what time beta 1 is being released tomorrow/
[00:55] <KB1JWQ> jason: when it's done. :-)
[00:56] <IdleOne> jason: everytime someone asks it adds 1 hour to the release time
[00:56] <NoReflex> just in time for me NOT to ask anymore....:)
[00:59] <NoReflex> did anyone succeeded in installing lynx on a Dell Inspiron 1520? Whenver I tried to boot it it just hang
[01:03] <jason> IdleOne, wow how should I know everyone has been askin
[01:04] <swoody> jason: asking about asking counts too ;)
[01:04] <swoody> it's now the 20th :/
[01:04] <jason> damn it
[01:04] <IdleOne> lmao
[01:04] <jason> <-- Jumps off a cliff
[01:04] <IdleOne> soon as it is released the topic in this channel will be updated
[01:04] <IdleOne> then you will know
[01:05] <swoody> server speeds are still pretty nice with how close the date is :)
[01:05] <jason> whats being downloaded
[01:05] <swoody> IIRC they seemed much busier w/ Karmic
[01:06] <swoody> pre-beta ;)
[01:06] <jason> still
[01:06] <jason> wow
[01:06] <swoody> everyone updating packages, so they can do an 'update-manager -d' tomorrow
[01:06] <swoody> or at least, that's what I would guess :/
[01:07] <NoReflex> swoody, actually it's the 19th and the 18th depending where you are :P
[01:07] <rww> swoody: they could just do an update-manager -d today and then apt-get upgrade tomrrow ;P
[01:07] <swoody> NoReflex: luckily, I'm over here, so it's the 18th for me ;)
[01:07] <NoReflex> 19th here :D
[01:07] <swoody> rww: that's true, too :)
[01:07] <swoody> rww: actually, I think that's what I meant, lol
[01:07] <jason> packages went on my update manager from 284 megs of downloads to 203 megs since I last checked... I've not done any updates on lucid since alpha 2
[01:07] <swoody> not the other way arond
[01:07] <swoody> around*
[01:08] <swoody> brb, rebootin' time :/
[01:08] <rww> jason: Wow! You might want to update, we're a little less crazily unstable than Alpha 2 :)
[01:09] <jason> rww, I was afraid to because things have been so stable so far for me
[01:09] <jason> rww, hence why im so eager to update to beta
[01:09] <jason> rww, but If you think i can update tonight I'll give it a go
[01:10] <rww> jason: It's a development version, so nothing's for certain, but in general I've found Lucid-right-now to be more stable than alpha 2.
[01:11] <rww> plymouth is still broken, but that's been the case for a while ;)
[01:11] <jason> rww, ok well I've got the weekend to fix it if anything goes wrong
[01:12] <CalmvsKhaos> for me alpha 3 is pretty good, only issues im having is if i click/drag a window around (say like gnome terminal) it freezes up for like 5 seconds,but that could be because i have it in vmware too...
[01:13] <swoody> CalmvsKhaos: do you have the Visual Effects turned on in your VM?
[01:13] <jason> I've only had a problem with when hitting enter in an app sometimes it freezes the mouse for a second
[01:13] <CalmvsKhaos> like compiz? hmmm i didnt even check that, good idea :)
[01:14] <swoody> CalmvsKhaos: not sure how nice it plays with VM, but it may not like it :)
[01:14] <DanaG> jason: check in mouse preferences -- uncheck "disable touchpad when typing", perhaps.
[01:15] <jason> hmmm
[01:15] <jason> DanaG, yup... dang it thats not healthy to have by default
[01:15] <DanaG> yeah, it drove me batty.
[01:16] <jason> me too
[01:16] <DanaG> try playing a WASD-based game with touchpad.
[01:16] <jason> exactly
[01:16] <DanaG> what they really should do: suppress just TAPPING while typing.
[01:16] <jason> agreed who cares where the mouse moves to as long as it doesnt produce a click
[01:16] <swoody> DanaG: would be a good bug/request report :)
[01:19] <IdleOne> soon as it is released the topic in this channel will be updated
[01:19] <IdleOne> then you will know
[01:19] <Blake> so beta1 has been delayed?
[01:19] <IdleOne> Blake: you just added an hour to release time by asking
[01:19] <IdleOne> yes delayed
[01:20] <Blake> IdleOne: you don't have to be a smartass man, if you don't like people asking post it on the topic or something
[01:20] <DanaG> «insert <your mom> joke here»
[01:20] <swoody> Blake: it is in the topic ;)
[01:20] <rww> Blake: Yes. See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html for details. When it's released, it'll be announced in this channel's topic and at the bottom of https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/thread.html
[01:20] <IdleOne> Blake: you don't have to assume I am being rude and please watch your language
[01:21] <FANUM> lol.
[01:21] <FANUM> so when is.....
[01:21] <FANUM> just kidding
[01:21] <swoody> >:|
[01:21] <jason> my topic is still the old one in my Xchat?
[01:22] <rww> jason: the /topic currently says "Beta 1 Delayed until 2010-03-19"
[01:22] <rww> (amongst other things)
[01:22] <swoody> for me:
[01:22] <jason> ahh
[01:22] <swoody> "... Beta 1 Delayed until 2010-03-19"
[01:22] <jason> I guess its good so many people are excited about ubuntu nothing wrong with that
[01:22] <magn3ts> Is there a PPA for the current Lucid theme?
[01:23] <DanaG> I find it's funnier to say "insert joke here" than to actually make the lame joke. =þ
[01:23]  * IdleOne will update/upgrade twice a day like I have been and beta will be when it is
[01:23] <DanaG> s/the lame/a lame/
[01:23]  * rww will macro that response he just game and save IdleOne the hassle of typing ;P
[01:23] <rww> gave **
[01:24] <IdleOne> rww: :)
[01:24] <magn3ts> what is the lucid theme called on this page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid/AmbianceMod?
[01:24] <FANUM> yea, does xchat autoupdate topics?
[01:24] <syk> ambiance?
[01:24] <IdleOne> no
[01:25] <IdleOne> well yes it does
[01:25] <rww> magn3ts: It's a version of Ambiance modified to put the buttons on the right.
[01:25] <IdleOne> when topic is changed xchat will show you the current topic
[01:25] <rww> FANUM: It should do. Regardless, you can type /topic to see the current one.
[01:25] <magn3ts> rww, where can I download ambiance (not the mod)? Is there an artwork ppa or something?
[01:25] <FANUM> rww: oh thats right
[01:26] <FANUM> forgot about that
[01:26] <FANUM> cool. been checking cdimage.ubuntu.com since like midnight.
[01:26] <rww> magn3ts: for Karmic? I don't know, I haven't looked into it.
[01:26] <FANUM> figured irc would be more effective
[01:26] <swoody> speaking of the new themes, what's with the Mac-buntu look? :/
[01:27] <rww> magn3ts: there's a few useful-looking pages at http://www.google.com/search?q=karmic+lucid+theme+ppa , but I haven't used any, so wouldn't know which to recommend.
[01:27] <FANUM> that was one of the short term goals for the next few releases (and karmic) make ubuntu prettier than mac
[01:27] <magn3ts> rww I just found one actually run by nilarimogard
[01:27] <swoody> FANUM: yeah, but it looks like a clone of OSX :/
[01:28] <FANUM> yea iknow
[01:28] <ddecator> whoa, hey swoody haha
[01:28] <FANUM> but its a start. i dig the new color scheme
[01:28] <FANUM> when i think back to 5.04 is amazing how far we have come
[01:28] <CalmvsKhaos> I'll take anything but that horrid brown theme
[01:28] <FANUM> lol, exactly
[01:29] <NoReflex> CalmvsKhaos, +1
[01:29] <swoody> lol, heya ddecator :)
[01:29] <rww> I'm glad to be using an OS that I can customize to look however I like out of the box :)
[01:29]  * swoody would prefer brown to OSX-wannabe silver and purple :P
[01:30] <FANUM> yea, it feels good to install it and be happy for atleast a little while before tearing into the customizaitons
[01:30] <ddecator> swoody: +1
[01:30] <FANUM> karmic was a huge step in the right direction.
[01:31] <swoody> brown was unique, it was different, it gave Ubuntu a niche image
[01:31] <swoody> now it's just another OS
[01:31] <IdleOne> I think Ubuntu should release 5 million different version of ubuntu, all with a different theme. That way people could download whatever the hell they like and stop whining like spoiled little brats about something that is very easily changed in a couple of minutes
[01:31] <FANUM> orange was still kind of bad, but i guess it was just the transition away from brown
[01:31] <rww> IdleOne: I thought that's what derivatives like Mint are for ;P
[01:31] <IdleOne> rww: ahh yeah. NERVER MIND!
[01:31] <IdleOne> never*
[01:32] <swoody> IdleOne: haha, well I don't want to take 30 seconds to change my desktop ;)
[01:32] <FANUM> IdleOne: u can change ubuntu?
[01:32] <FANUM> ;
[01:32] <FANUM> ;)
[01:32] <swoody> FANUM: yes, but only if you pay the subscription fee
[01:32] <swoody> I'll PM you my PayPal address, send me $100 and I'll hook it up for you ;)
[01:32] <FANUM> ok, heres my CC number will u do it for me
[01:32] <rww> although I would be interested in an option to USB Creator called "Transfer my existing per-user settings from this machine to the USB stick" or something
[01:33] <IdleOne> and by the extra-themes-package for $199
[01:33] <FANUM> LOL
[01:33] <FANUM> awesome, can i just pay 500? and download it two and a half times?
[01:33] <IdleOne> rww: that sounds like a good feature request :)
[01:33] <swoody> rww: backup your /home dir? You do have a seperate /home don't you? ;)
[01:33] <IdleOne> FANUM: no, minimum 5 licenses
[01:35] <ddecator> i think they should have a default theme that users can change the color of
[01:36] <IdleOne> umm that is what they have
[01:36] <rww> swoody: wouldn
[01:36] <rww> 't live without one :)
[01:36] <ddecator> i mean where you can select a default color, and everything is the same style (icons, window borders, etc.), but there is a gui where you can easily select a color...not using the appearances menu and adjusting menu colors and everything
[01:37] <NoReflex> I noticed that in lucid there' no initrd.gz but a initrd.lz in a casper dir...I'm used to create bootable usb drives out of CD images...would a syslinux with "default casper/vmlinuz;append initrd=casper/initrd.lz" work?
[01:37] <rww> I think they should make sixteen themes in different colours, and randomly pick one at install time ;P
[01:37] <NoReflex> *syslinux.cfg
[01:37] <swoody> rww: or have them randomly swap everytime you log in :o
[01:38] <swoody> Rainbow-buntu :)
[01:38] <FANUM> ddecator: u can customize any theme with the customize button
[01:38] <FANUM> at the bottom
[01:38] <IdleOne> FANUM: why is it so complicated to do?
[01:38] <ddecator> FANUM: i know, but it's not the most user-friendly for new users imo
[01:38] <FANUM> Idle0ne: ?
[01:39] <IdleOne> why don't they use telepathy to read our minds and use the theme we want
[01:39] <swoody> IdleOne: you want Hot Pink :)
[01:39] <FANUM> lol, now theres a feature for the next release
[01:39] <skierpage> I'm running Kubuntu 9.10 amd64.  I want to install Lucid Lynx onto USB and then boot and run it off USB.  (I don't mean run the LiveCD from USB.)  How?
[01:39] <IdleOne> swoody: why not :P
[01:40] <IdleOne> !usb
[01:40] <IdleOne> see the persistent link
[01:40] <Dr_Willis> Moo You all! :)
[01:40] <swoody> skierpage: or you could just do a regular install, choosing the USB as your HDD instead of your internal disk
[01:40] <IdleOne> moo too yoo
[01:41] <Dr_Willis> I boot my netbook now.. X fails.. i restart GDM... it works.. :) odd.
[01:41] <swoody> skierpage: make sure Grub gets installed on the USB for this version, too
[01:41] <IdleOne> Dr_Willis: so working as expected :)
[01:42] <Dr_Willis> IdleOne:  but it dosent always fail to start up X on bootup.
[01:42] <Dr_Willis> So im not even sure what to check/bug report on
[01:42] <IdleOne> Dr_Willis: that is to keep you on the tip of your fingers
[01:42] <IdleOne> Dr_Willis: would be an X bug I guess
[01:44] <switchgirl> hi does ubuntu lucid have full support for sun java applet's?
[01:44]  * Dr_Willis wonders what 'sun java applets' even are. :)
[01:44] <Dr_Willis> You just dont hear much about java these days..
[01:45] <switchgirl> ie can i use gaydargirls chat room with Ubuntu lucid - if not i'll stick with karmic
[01:45] <Dr_Willis> switchgirl:  i cant think of a reason it woulden tstill work.
[01:46] <switchgirl> the past two times i have tried it it has not supported java fully and then i cant use Gaydargirls chat :'( i paid to talk to other hot lesbian's like myself
[01:46] <switchgirl> lol
[01:46] <yofel> switchgirl: if the applet doesn't work with icedtea6-plugin file a bug
[01:47] <switchgirl> no but seriously it wouldnt work
[01:47] <yofel> switchgirl: if you use sun-java6-plugin wait for it to be fixed if you're using firefox
[01:47] <switchgirl> yofel: when is it likley to be fixed? :)
[01:48]  * switchgirl wants to help 
[01:48] <IdleOne> switchgirl: your sexual preference and other sexual topics are !ot and !o4o in -offtopic
[01:48] <DanaG> last time I tried icedtea-plugin, it segfaulted Firefox.
[01:48] <ddecator> it's still doing that?
[01:48] <switchgirl> DanaG: it does that to me
[01:48] <DanaG> "last time I tried" was 3 weeks ago, though.
[01:48] <switchgirl> IdleOne: get a sence of humour....
[01:48] <ddecator> let me find out...
[01:48] <yofel> switchgirl: when the devs get the time to fix it: bug 532174
[01:49] <switchgirl> kk
[01:50] <yofel> switchgirl: set the bug to affect you too, that might help speed things up ;)
[01:50] <switchgirl> i had the same issue in karmic tbh
[01:51] <ddecator> java should work in firefox by the end of beta 2. the devs still aren't exactly sure of the cause
[01:52] <yofel> ddecator: I described the cause in the bug
[01:52] <DanaG> a bug I've had for ages: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/extace/+bug/399565
[01:52] <yofel> or is it they aren't sure if firefox isn't broken after all?
[01:53] <ddecator> yofel: well then they haven't had time to fix it =p. it will get attention once the devs upgrade to lucid
[01:53] <switchgirl> the cause of the bug is that the sys link is not there
[01:53] <switchgirl> so you have the programme but not linked to the software
[01:53] <switchgirl> fact one sec
[01:53] <switchgirl> i MAY have a cure
[01:53] <hexdump_> Hi all, I just wanted to get some feedback on ubuntu 10.04 from those of you who have used it thus far.  So how is it?
[01:54] <ddecator> well that should be a relatively easy fix
[01:54] <swoody> hexdump_: every time you ask, Lucid gets 10% worse :/
[01:54] <switchgirl> at least that was the cure for the problem i had in karmic
[01:54] <yofel> what happend: until now java was in /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins, firefox changed the xulrunner packaging though and now it doesn't recoginize that folder anymore, now it has to be in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins for firefox to find it
[01:55] <switchgirl> ddecator: every time you say that a Lynx dies
[01:55] <hexdump_> alright
[01:55] <ddecator> switchgirl: every time i say what? o.o
[01:55] <swoody> yofel: ln -s?
[01:56] <yofel> swoody: generally yes, but since the update-alternatives system is used it's a bit more complex.
[01:56] <yofel> swoody: but yes, it's one symlink that needs to be fixed
[01:56] <hexdump_> alright though for real how is it?
[01:57] <ddecator> hexdump_: other than some plymouth trouble i've had, it's been stable
[01:57] <skierpage> IdleOne, swoody Hmm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent "Method 1: Installing Ubuntu directly to USB drive from installer CD" still requires  me to create a Live CD.  Can I mount the Lucid Lynx .iso and run "the installer" from 10.04?
[01:57] <yofel> hexdump_: depends on your hardware (especially your graphics card on boot for plymouth) and how much stable you need it, it's quite stable In my opinion
[01:57] <switchgirl> http://paste.ubuntu.com/397561/ ddecator the cure is in there somewhere
[01:57] <switchgirl> ddecator: everytime you say "that shouldnt be too hard to fix"
[01:58] <KB1JWQ> bjsnider: Over ehre for a second. :-)  Once it hits the PPA, I was planning on moving to the 2.6.33 kernel.
[01:58] <KB1JWQ> (Specifically for TRIM support; I'm on an SSD here)
[01:59] <yofel> switchgirl: ddecator: line 373 ff
[01:59] <Steil> omg
[01:59] <Steil> any of you gusy ever use chat roulette
[01:59] <ddecator> yofel: ty
[01:59] <hexdump_> thanks for the info.  I think I might just go ahead and upgrade then.
[01:59] <yofel> EXACTLY that fix ;)
[01:59] <swoody> skierpage: well if you install USB creator on your current system, you can install the .iso directly to your USB from your current system
[02:00] <yofel> line 375 alone should be enough I think
[02:00] <yofel> that command is missing from the repos package
[02:00] <arand> How would I debug constant software centre lockups?
[02:00] <hexdump_> thanks again everyone have a good night.
[02:00] <hexdump_> later
[02:01] <switchgirl> yofel: meh... i change it before each logoff
[02:01] <LetsGo67> Why is Beta 1 delayed?  Will it be better?  I heard it was a wannabe Mac.
[02:02] <ddecator> yofel: thanks. i let micah know about it since he deals more with the packaging of firefox
[02:02] <swoody> LetsGo67: yeah, I'm not a big fan of the new theme :/
[02:02] <yofel> LetsGo67: read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[02:02] <swoody> LetsGo67: luckily, it's only a theme ;) and this is Ubuntu, not Windows
[02:02] <skierpage> swoody, IIUC, USB creator will turn my USB into a live CD, but that's not the same as installing Lucid Lynx on a "hard drive" that's actually my USB.
[02:02] <yofel> ddecator: I think I talked to asac about this and he said it should  be fixed in java
[02:03] <swoody> skierpage: you can have it specify to make it a persistant install
[02:04] <LetsGo67> Can we just slit the new theme's throat altogether?
[02:04] <swoody> skierpage: on the bottom of the window: "When starting up from this disk..." choose "Stored in reserved extra space" :)
[02:04] <switchgirl> yofel: i just realied on line  469  i gave my root password out :P lol
[02:05] <LetsGo67> !theme
[02:05] <DanaG> LetsGo67: wow, that's a violent mental image.
[02:05] <DanaG> I'd rather say "throw it out the window".
[02:05] <LetsGo67> DanaG: I hate plagiarism with a passion.  :)
[02:05] <DanaG> liveusb is not as good as an install-to-usb situation.
[02:05] <skierpage> swoody, again IIUC a persistent Live USB is not the same as Linux installed onto the drive.  I don't want that filesystem.squashfs stuff, I want an extN partition on my USB containing Lucid Lynx.
[02:05] <DanaG> It's more complicated.
[02:06] <yofel> switchgirl: lmao, hope you have root login over ssh disabled ^^
[02:06] <DanaG> Just boot livecd, and point it at the usb disk device.
[02:06] <LetsGo67> Is there gonna be a vote for the theme?
[02:06] <swoody> skierpage: ah, ok. Then yeah, I'd say use a program to load your .iso, and then install it as usual, selcting your USB as the install disk
[02:06] <LetsGo67> Is this channel logged?
[02:07] <CalmvsKhaos> LetsGo67, i believe ubottu logs ALL channels it's in
[02:07] <swoody> !logs
[02:07] <switchgirl> yofel: 3 better my home dir is encrypted, i dont have an ssh server, and port 22 is locked, also ufw set to be rescrictive, as well as that i'm behind 2 firewalls and a number of routers
[02:07] <arand> LetsGo67: indeed, all ubuntu channels are afaik
[02:07] <LetsGo67> Crud.
[02:07] <LetsGo67> Will the new theme survive?
[02:07] <switchgirl> lol
[02:08] <yofel> switchgirl: sounds nice :)
[02:08]  * switchgirl giggles as LetsGo67 realises there mistake
[02:10] <switchgirl> oh and LetsGo67 personally i think the new theme is more grown up and mature
[02:10] <LetsGo67> Switchgirl glad to see there are female users.  Will the theme survive?
[02:10] <LetsGo67> Oh but why does it look like a Mac?
[02:10] <DanaG> It fails at even that "goal".
[02:10] <switchgirl> http://www.howtoforge.com/mac4lin_make_linux_look_like_a_mac <<<that is NOTHING like the new theme
[02:11] <LetsGo67> :'(
[02:11] <sebsebseb> LetsGo67: Quite a lot of other distros with better default themes than Ubuntu, by the way
[02:12] <swoody> switchgirl: this is more like it: http://maketecheasier.com/turn-your-ubuntu-hardy-to-mac-osx-leopard/2008/07/23
[02:13] <mustelo> when a song is currently playing in rhythmbox and I double click on a playlist to start it, rhythmbox pauses the song and just does nothing... is this a known issue?
[02:13] <LetsGo67> Why not an unique theme?
[02:17] <LetsGo67> I'm gonna leave.  Thanks everyone!  Nice meeting you, Switchgirl.  Later!
[02:17] <switchgirl> i didnt get a chance to say hug you laters :(
[02:21] <skierpage> DanaG , swoody thanks.  So one can't skip the step of booting from some form of liveCD.  I was hoping I could mount the .iso's squashfs and do the Linux equivalent of running wubi.exe to install.
[02:21] <rww> yay, Plymouth actually works for me now on a LiveCD of the daily image :)
[02:21] <DanaG> You could make a second, liveUSB.
[02:21] <DanaG> something awesome you can do with u3 drives: replace the virtual CD with an ISO of Ubuntu.
[02:21] <DanaG> And then install native onto the "flash drive" portion.
[02:26] <LADmaticCA> anyone else getting a bad sector warning from the  disk utility? Or is my drive really failing?
[02:28] <FANUM> LADmticCA: that means the drive is old, and going out
[02:28] <FANUM> that does not nessicarly mean it is shot yet.
[02:28] <psusi> if you see 123451246245 bad sectors, you are probably one of the people with a drive that reports the numbers wrong
[02:28] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, unfortunately I just bought this drive :(
[02:28] <FANUM> how many sectors?
[02:29] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, not sure
[02:30] <FANUM> of you go to System-Admisistration-Disk Utility and run the self test, is should tell you
[02:31] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, okay. Under Reallocate Sector Warning it says 1948 sectors
[02:31] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, then I see current pending Sector Count listing 4 sectors
[02:32] <FANUM> so the bottom number is 4?
[02:32] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, okay i see the total 1952
[02:32] <FANUM> the bottom number is 1952?
[02:33] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, it says 1952 Bad Sectors
[02:33] <skierpage> I'm downloading http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/lucid-desktop-i386.iso .  Will asking if it's any good make it 10% worse ;-)
[02:33] <FANUM> Your drive is dying, I would back up immediatly
[02:33] <FANUM> sorry for the bad news
[02:33] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, i was afraid of that. I bought it like 2 months ago :(
[02:34] <ddecator> anyone know if nvidia 197 will make it into lucid?
[02:34] <FANUM> yea, where did u buy it?
[02:34] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, Fry's it was OEM
[02:34] <CalmvsKhaos> LADmaticCA, dont feel bad one of my external drives (less than a year old is dying) :(
[02:34] <psusi> man I love being able to migrate my root filesystem between disks on the fly
[02:35] <FANUM> Some places like staples will run hard drives over the "Demagnetization Security strip"
[02:35] <FANUM> which can kill a drive right away
[02:35] <FANUM> but fryes should know better, dont think thats the prob
[02:35] <FANUM> psusi: do tell, hows that?
[02:35] <CalmvsKhaos> FANUM, got mine at Costco, that could be the prob, i didnt think of that
[02:36] <psusi> LADmaticCA, you have 1952 pending reallocation?
[02:36] <FANUM> yea, u always have to tell them to not touch the counter with it
[02:36] <psusi> FANUM, lvm
[02:36] <LADmaticCA> psusi, yep
[02:36] <FANUM> oh
[02:36] <psusi> LADmaticCA, outch... that's not good... run an extended selftest
[02:36] <CalmvsKhaos> FANUM, but stores like BESTBUY, they have to demagnatize stuff, or it wont go out the door
[02:36] <LADmaticCA> psusi, okay
[02:36] <FANUM> they usually make me get the manager just to buy a HD
[02:36] <FANUM> it takes a extra 30 min
[02:36] <CalmvsKhaos> eeks
[02:37] <FANUM> but ur drive dose not dye in a month or two
[02:37] <LADmaticCA> this was my first Seagate..is that the problem? lol
[02:37] <FANUM> yes, is it the 8002.11 series?
[02:38] <FANUM> alot of the seagates have boched firmware that sticks the drive into standby mode and you cant even spin up the drive
[02:38] <CalmvsKhaos> Fanum ive set my external drive next to a subwoofer, could that have damaged it too?
[02:38]  * psusi got a fancy new ssd last week and has been playing with it and lvm.. migrated the running root filesystem to it when I got it... just migrated it back off so I can trim the drive
[02:38] <FANUM> and the firmware "Fix" does more damage than it fixes
[02:38] <FANUM> YES
[02:38] <FANUM> that will kill a drive quickly
[02:39] <CalmvsKhaos> :(
[02:39] <FANUM> I know, I do forensics for a living, and i see all of those issues all the time
[02:39] <CalmvsKhaos> i didnt think modern drives were so susceptible to magnets
[02:39] <FANUM> its always the stuff you wouldnt think about
[02:39] <FANUM> there magnetic drives
[02:39] <FANUM> SSD's are not
[02:40] <psusi> FANUM, you know what pisses me off?  when drives DIE... seems like I hardly ever see them have problems that can be diagnosed with SMART.. they just die so hard your bios locks up trying to detect them... happened to the new 1.5 tb wdc green drive with the new 4kb sectors I got last week after 1 day
[02:40] <CalmvsKhaos> ok so with a SSD you don thave to fight the store manager for 30 mins? looks like SSD wins :)
[02:40] <LADmaticCA> FANUM, it's a barracuda 7200.11 something like that
[02:41] <FANUM> Yes, the SSD's can be scanned normally, no worries about the store clerk
[02:41] <FANUM> and the BIOS lock up  be worked around by trying USB adapters
[02:41] <FANUM> to get a clean image
[02:41] <FANUM> does not detect it as an IDE or SATA
[02:41] <CalmvsKhaos> but programs like SpinRite dont work on SSD from what i heard
[02:41] <FANUM> shows up in the USB
[02:42] <psusi> hrm... I don't have one of those... I tried telling the bios not to probe that port, but it seemed like it didn't listen
[02:42] <FANUM> no, cause there is no need. No spinning parts
[02:42] <FANUM> Yea, thats all u need
[02:42] <psusi> figured if I could get the kernel up and running I could try talking to it from linux
[02:42] <CalmvsKhaos> Steve Gibson is smart he'll find a way to fix SSD drives
[02:42] <FANUM> if the drive is f'd, you can still usually get an image and carve the files out
[02:42] <psusi> but the bios would not avoid probing the drive... and if I disabled the whole controller, then it didn't even show up on the pci bus to the kernel
[02:43] <FANUM> Yea, its about how the bios detects the drive. IF you get one of the seagates, with botched frimware
[02:43] <FANUM> your f'd
[02:43] <FANUM> cleanroom time, starting at 1500 just to image it
[02:44] <FANUM> the bios locking is a safety mechanism to protect the MOBO, with usb i cannot damage anything but the USB bus, so you have more leaway
[02:45] <psusi> I don't think it's a safety mechanism... I think it's just the bios not timing out when the drive fails to respond
[02:45] <LADmaticCA> is there a lucid ppa for guaydeque?
[02:46] <FANUM> psusi: the way the bios probes the drive is different, so it is made to freeze if it encouters anything that could damage the hardware
[02:46] <FANUM> or it is a side effect
[02:46] <FANUM> depending on the issue
[02:48] <FANUM> if the board is shorting out, and sending the wrong current the usb will not complain the way the bios will
[02:50]  * psusi is amused at having to pass --please-destroy-my-drive to hdparm
[02:50] <yofel> psusi: you serious?
[02:53] <FANUM> my fav flag ever was from e17 "--yes-i-know-what-im-doing-and-i-understand-the-consequences"
[02:53] <CalmvsKhaos> lol
[02:54] <rww> removing essential packages in apt is fun, too :)
[02:54] <FANUM> lol, ye
[02:54] <rww> "Are you sure you want to remove it? Type 'Yes, I am aware this is a very bad idea' if you are." ~aptitude
[02:54]  * yofel likes the apt version :D
[02:56] <psusi> yofel, yes, I'm serious... and don't call me sherly.... hehe.. about what?
[02:56] <yofel> didn't know that hdparm had such a flag yet...
[02:57] <FANUM> so... xchat? no better options im unaware of?
[02:57] <FANUM> in my switch to ubuntu over 5 years ago, it is the only thing im not satisfied with
[02:58] <ddecator> has anyone tested the 197 nvidia driver that's supposed to fix the fan issue?
[02:58] <sebsebseb> FANUM: Konversation :)
[02:58] <yofel> dunno, irssi or quassel maybe? or just use chatzilla? ^^
[02:58] <FANUM> LOL, i know, hate running kde apps in gnome tho
[02:58] <FANUM> yofel: hmmm havnt tried two of those (dont like irssi tho)
[02:59] <FANUM> sebsebseb: i almost switched to kde just for konversation tho
[02:59] <yofel> FANUM: quassel is qt, doesn't need kde libs though, and qt can be made to look like gtk since 4.5
[02:59] <FANUM> then they came out with 4 and i ran for the hills
[02:59] <FANUM> yea, its not the look tha bothers me, is the dependecies
[03:00] <FANUM> cool, thanks, lookin into it now
[03:00] <maccam94> :-( @ /topic
[03:01] <FANUM> :(
[03:01] <FANUM> lol
[03:01] <maccam94> anyone know what the blocker is/was?
[03:02] <FANUM> ?
[03:02] <yofel> meh, seems like the quassel version in the repos is really built with --WITH_KDE=yes, so it'll need kdebase-runtime and kdelibs5 :(
[03:02] <psusi> yofel, you have to pass it to use some of the more dangerous commands... I'm using it to trim my ssd
[03:03] <yofel> psusi: wasn't the lucid version of hdparm not supposed to have trim support?
[03:03] <psusi> yofel, nope... I built the new version that does
[03:03] <yofel> ah
[03:04]  * psusi watches lvm migrate his mounted root back to the ssd
[03:04] <yofel> ^^
[03:04] <yofel> is lvm hard to set up? never tried it
[03:04] <FANUM> hmmmm. U know i dont miss anything from windows (infact hate most of the apps i enjoyed from there since i have tasted freedom), but i wish there was an mirce port
[03:04] <FANUM> MIRC
[03:05] <FANUM> yofel: not at all, just use the alt installer
[03:05] <yofel> FANUM: LOL, I know a few people that would kill you for that phrase ^^, I did use mIRC in windows too though
[03:05] <psusi> this is my first time using it too... I don't find it terribly difficult, but then again, today when I noticed that karmic parted can add new partitions to a disk with other partitions that are mounted, and lucid can not, I dug into the source to find the problem and am working with upstream to fix it since they broke it, apparently on purpose...
[03:06]  * psusi didn't use the alt installer... and not only is it lvm, but lvm on top of dmraid... at least my original physical volume is
[03:06] <FANUM> yofel: i know, its a dangerous thing to say, i switched to ubuntu with the firs unoffical release (before the silly names), but MIRC was excellent
[03:06] <psusi> when I upgraded to lucid I actually made an lvm snapshot of my karmic root, rebooted using the snapshot as the root, and did a dist-upgrade there to see if it would work, retaining the ability to reboot back into karmic
[03:07] <FANUM> even if it was built for a platform that is 30year old patched together unmanaged code
[03:07] <FANUM> psusi: was that the default? or did you have to configure that?
[03:07] <psusi> FANUM, was what the default?
[03:07] <FANUM> snapshot during upgrade
[03:08] <psusi> oh of course it wasn't automatica
[03:09] <psusi> I told lvm to make me a snapshot, then I rebooted and told grub to change the root= parameter to the new snapshot volume
[03:09] <h00k> AlanChicken: gconf-editor
[03:10] <h00k> why was my backlog broken
[03:10] <psusi> unfortunately there is not yet any way to merge the snapshot back into the original or to convert the snapshot it a stand alone volume... merging it back into the original and replacing it with the modified snapshot just went into the upstream kernel
[03:10] <psusi> so I ended up having to create a new logical volume once I was happy with lucid and did a cp -a to copy all files to it, rebooted using that as the root, and deleted the snapshot
[03:11] <anichols> Ah, so that is what happened to Beta-1.  I was wondering if I was looking in the right place for the ISO.
[03:11] <anichols> Any idea what caused the delay?
[03:12] <yofel> anichols: not really, what we know is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[03:12] <KB1JWQ> Any idea what would cause / solve "the following packages have been kept back?"
[03:12] <ddecator> kb1
[03:12] <KB1JWQ> dist-upgrade didn't solve these two.  udisks and parted
[03:12] <ddecator> whoops
[03:12] <FANUM> psusi: still, that is freaking sweet
[03:12] <FANUM> never thought of that
[03:12] <KB1JWQ> jwq?
[03:12] <ddecator> KB1JWQ: it usually means it wasn't built for your system successfully
[03:13] <holstein> KB1JWQ: i went into synaptic
[03:13] <anichols> yofel: Thank you for the heads up.
[03:13] <ddecator> KB1JWQ: *yet
[03:13] <holstein> and did them seperatly
[03:13] <FANUM> KB1JWQ: yea, did you try "apt-get dist-upgrade"?
[03:13] <FANUM> because just upgrade, some packages dont qualify
[03:13] <holstein> actully, i think i just did udisks and parted was sorted out
[03:13] <yofel> KB1JWQ: for udisks you should need to remove devicekit-disks I think, check if you have that installed
[03:13] <ddecator> KB1JWQ: on 64-bit, i've had about 5 packages not upgrading for around a week now
[03:13] <anichols> I figure I can wait a day longer before I change HDDs in my laptop and start up with Lucid....gives me more time to figure out how to get my USB stick to work as a Live USB.
[03:14] <KB1JWQ> FANUM: 20:12:40 < KB1JWQ> dist-upgrade didn't solve these two.  udisks and parted
[03:14] <ddecator> i also have a gstreamer package not upgrading...
[03:14] <anichols> I tried to set my stick up (just as a test) as a Hardy Live USB, but it failed.
[03:14] <holstein> KB1JWQ: i had that issue... go to synaptic
[03:14] <holstein> that worked for me
[03:14] <holstein> search udisks and select to upgrade just that package
[03:15] <KB1JWQ> YEah, I can override, but it looks like it'd break some risky stuff.
[03:15] <KB1JWQ> libpart for isntance.
[03:15]  * yofel does some advertising for the aptitude curses interface again, run 'sudo aptitude' to try it
[03:15] <KB1JWQ> I may just wait a bit. :-)
[03:15] <holstein> no overide for me
[03:15] <holstein> just one package
[03:15] <rww> KB1JWQ: there's a new version of libparted. pastebin the output from the override and I'll check it's okay
[03:15] <holstein> udisks
[03:15] <holstein> by itself
[03:15] <holstein> upgraded
[03:15] <ddecator> yofel: updating/upgrading with aptitude could resolve that?
[03:15]  * rww had the same problem, ended up swapping versions of some library
[03:16] <KB1JWQ> rww: YEah, wants to go from libpart 1.5 or so to libpart0
[03:16] <coz_> finally my web cam works on ubuntu after several version of confusion:)  logitech sphere... no issues so far...hope this stays the same after release :)
[03:16] <KB1JWQ> That's scary. :-)
[03:16] <yofel> ddecator: it has a nicer way to tell you what's broken and why and let's you choose one of several solutions
[03:16] <rww> KB1JWQ: yeah, that's what mine did. worked fine for me
[03:17] <ddecator> yofel: huh, didn't realize that. i knew aptitude was the preferred method, but i have never tried it haha
[03:17] <rww> aptitude <3
[03:17] <yofel> ddecator: yeah, not many seem to know that aptitude has a curses interface, sad fact :(
[03:18] <ddecator> yofel: i'll try to break my habit and start using that =
[03:18] <ddecator> =)*
[03:19] <xsacha> hey guys. is there any way to permanently set webcam settings (as set in v4l2ucp)?
[03:21] <xsacha> i live in a country where the power supply is 50hz and find i have to continually open v4l2ucp and set frequency to 50hz (it defaults to 60hz)
[03:21] <KB1JWQ> Anyone found a decent gnome panel applet that they'd recommend? :-)
[03:21] <KB1JWQ> I'm liking the system monitor.
[03:21] <FANUM> later people, wine run, catch u later (hopefully there will be some beta action when i get back :)
[03:21] <xsacha> FANUM: wine run means you're testing wine right? not running to the closest bottle-o\
[03:22] <FANUM> LOL, no i dont need no stinking windows apps, bottle time
[03:25] <maccam94> xsacha: what's wrong with that? your computer converts the power to DC. the Hz has to do with the number of frames per second the camera records, not your AC current
[03:29] <DanaG> Actually, that's not quite the whole story.
[03:29] <DanaG> Webcams do often have AC Line Noise Compensation".
[03:30] <DanaG> For example, they'll filter out brightness changes that are timed at 60Hz.
[03:30] <DanaG> s/For example,//
[03:32] <xsacha> maccam94, my problem is v4l2ucm settings are not permanent. only for this session. how to make them permanent?
[03:32] <jimlovell777> I've had a few xorg crashes the past few days and the apport crash tool brings a few questions to mind. If a bug already exists for the problem I had is the collected info still sent if I select "This also affects me"? Also the dialog mentions the gdm logs files *might* contain sensitive info. It would be nice if it elaborated a bit, sensitive could mean username, bookmarks, password lists to everything on your hard drive. The nature of
[03:34] <ddecator> jimlovell777: no, it's not added to the report if you say it's the same as what you had (no need for identical info). the personal info can be contained in a file added to crash reports, but crash reports are private by default so only a select subset of the community can see the report and make sure those files are removed before it's made public
[03:34] <xsacha> im just getting plymouthd crashes
[03:34] <ddecator> xsacha: with the latest build?
[03:34] <xsacha> from a fresh install, latest update
[03:34] <ddecator> (of plymouth specifically)
[03:34] <xsacha> install, -> reload, -> update
[03:34] <DanaG> xsacha: check if the webcam driver has a module parameter to specify that option.
[03:35] <ddecator> huh, i thought they fixed most of the issues with plymouth...it's still not showing right for me either though =\
[03:35] <xsacha> DanaG: webcam driver being v4l2? where do you change parameters?
[03:35] <DanaG> I mean, in my case, the driver is "uvcvideo"
[03:35] <xsacha> ddecator, it doesnt seem to affect me. i dont notice anything different. it just tells me it crashed every boot
[03:36] <DanaG> bummer, no module parameters.
[03:36] <ddecator> xsacha: that's odd...have you checked if it's reported on launchpad yet?
[03:36] <DanaG> hmm, I wonder if you can twiddle gstreamer options to get the parameter auto-set.
[03:36] <xsacha> isnt there some config file for v4l2? oh DanaG my driver is uvcvideo too
[03:36] <jimlovell777> ddecator: Thanks for the info. I know what's contained in a crash reports varies wildly based on what crashed but in this instance, any idea what could be in the files? I could see where logs with ip traffic and mac address might be iffy but I can't figure it out for xorg. I'm curious more than anything, not overly concerned.
[03:37] <akav> and here I was all excited to install 10.04 on a notebook I just got...
[03:37] <DanaG> hmm, I use guvcview.
[03:37] <xsacha> i just find it odd that the v4l2 control panel settings aren't permanent. i dont see any reason why they wouldnt be. they even have a reset to default button
[03:37] <akav> but beta 1 comes tomorrow?
[03:37] <DanaG> my webcam has "macro" mode, where you can hold something about 2.5 inches away and it's in focus.
[03:37] <ddecator> jimlovell777: your password and account numbers are two of the major possibilities
[03:37] <ddecator> akav: should
[03:38] <xsacha> DanaG: mine has autofocus (and it works for things only 1 inch away).. but only with the windows software
[03:38] <DanaG> mine's a manual toggle both here and in Linux.
[03:38] <DanaG> oh, check out guvcview.
[03:38] <xsacha> ok
[03:38] <DanaG> not sure if the settings it makes are persistent, though.
[03:38] <akav> that explains why the wiki has a dead link to releases.ubuntu.com
[03:38] <xsacha> i have a quickcam pro 9000 by the way
[03:38] <DanaG> er, "both here and in Windows"
[03:39] <ddecator> jimlovell777: although the most sensitive info is usually contained in one file while only a few people can access when absolutely necessary. other private info can be contained in the stacktraces, so depending on what caused the crash, some passwords can get included in the report
[03:39] <xsacha> ok guvcview has a few more options.. frame rate was set at only 25??
[03:40] <ddecator> jimlovell777: s/one file while/one file that
[03:40] <DanaG> Framerate and resolution tend to be inversely proportional.
[03:40] <xsacha> max resolution is only 960x720?
[03:40] <DanaG> I can do 1600x1200...  but only about 0.5 fps. =þ
[03:40] <xsacha> my webcam can do 1600x1200 at 15 fps on windows.. and 960x720 at 30 fps
[03:40] <DanaG> hmm. maybe there are some bugs going on, then.
[03:40] <xsacha> and my program that i developed seems to allow this when i specify these settings manually
[03:41] <xsacha> but guvcview only reports 15 fps max for 960x720
[03:41] <xsacha> and no higher res
[03:41] <DanaG> Weeeeird.
[03:41] <xsacha> is there a way to force it higher in guvcview?
[03:42] <DanaG> hmm, try guvcview --help
[03:42] <xsacha> ohh i changed video input from mjpg to yuyv and it now shows 1600x1200
[03:42] <xsacha> but now i get: VIDIOC_S_FORMAT - Unable to set format: Input/output error
[03:43] <DanaG> ah, -v helps.
[03:43] <jimlovell777> ddecator: lol I half thought you were joking at first. Not a biggie though thanks for answering the question ;)
[03:43] <KB1JWQ> There a decent way to get the background image to randomly change to images from a specified directory?
[03:43] <xsacha> and i cant open the program to fix it.. im stuck lol
[03:43] <DanaG> verbose.
[03:43] <DanaG> there's a .guvcviewrc file
[03:43] <ddecator> jimlovell777: no problem =)
[03:44] <xsacha> in windows im pretty sure it is not yuyv or mjpg but something else
[03:45] <ddecator> avi?
[03:45] <xsacha> no.. similar to rgb
[03:45] <DanaG> bgr, perhaps?
[03:45] <anichols> Is there a way to make a lucid-alpha-3 live USB?  I tried making a Live USB earlier with UNetbootin, but after I got it up and running, the entire computer crashed out within 30 seconds...couldn't even try the install process.
[03:45] <xsacha> anyway it doesnt let me choose anything else in guvcview :(
[03:46] <KB1JWQ> Nevermind, found a soution.
[03:47] <ddecator> anichols: the usb startup creator in ubuntu worked for me
[03:47] <anichols> ddecator: No such utility here...how do I install it?
[03:48] <rww> anichols: install the usb-creator package
[03:48] <xsacha> DanaG: ok now i cant open any webcam program :( even when i changed the config file back to using mjpg. it keeps trying to use yuyv. i even tried deleting the config file
[03:48] <DanaG> try guvcview --help
[03:48] <ddecator> anichols: what version of ubuntu are you running? it's installed by default since at least karmic
[03:48] <DanaG> there are command-line parameters to force stuff.
[03:48] <rww> ddecator: (since exactly karmic. I had to check for someone earlier :)
[03:48] <anichols> ddecator: I'm in hardy at the moment.  Been sticking with LTS versions.
[03:49] <rww> anichols: usb-creator isn't in Hardy's regular repository, you'd need to enable hardy-backports
[03:49] <anichols> ddecator: How do I install that package?  sudo apt-get install usb-creator?
[03:49] <ddecator> anichols: it's in the hardy backports repo
[03:49] <xsacha> DanaG: ahh i had to reconnect my camera to reset it
[03:49] <rww> ubottu: backports | anichols
[03:49] <anichols> ddecator: rww: hardy backports repo = ?
[03:50] <rww> anichols: see the link ubottu just sent you
[03:50] <anichols> It's like learning DOS all over again. *laughs*
[03:51] <ddecator> ubottu: backports > anichols
[03:51] <ddecator> rww: that will send him the message ;)
[03:51] <ddecator> yofel: aptitude wanted to remove openoffice =(
[03:51] <anichols> I'm reading it, however it's not exactly telling me what I need to do. *mutters and starts bashing at the keyboard*
[03:52] <yofel> ddecator: did you by chance try to install openclipart-openoffice.org?
[03:53] <ddecator> yofel: no. i just used "sudo aptitude update; sudo aptitude dist-upgrade" and in order to upgrade the held-back packages it wanted to remove several packages, including openoffice
[03:53] <xsacha> DanaG: is it just that the linux driver doesnt expose the other video formats like rgb3?
[03:53] <DanaG> hmm, I'm not sure.
[03:54] <DanaG> maybe google for <webcam model> and "v4l"
[03:54] <anichols> Which of these backports do I need to install to get usb-creator to be recognized by apt-get?
[03:54] <ddecator> anichols: universe, if you're going to enable the whole repo
[03:55] <anichols> ddecator: Which I'm not seeing on this list.  http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy-backports/
[03:55] <anichols> ddecator: Am I even look in the right area here, or just wasting my time trying to figure this out instead of wasting a CD-R on an alpha version of Lucid?
[03:55] <ddecator> anichols: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy-backports/usb-creator
[03:55] <yofel> ddecator: you would have to find out which package it is then, try to run the curses interface, press shift+u, then e for examine if it tells you that there are conflicts
[03:56] <ddecator> yofel: ...right
[03:56] <anichols> ddecator: Thank you
[03:56] <ddecator> anichols: no problem =)
[03:56] <xsacha> DanaG: so whenver i reconnect camera or reboot computer, the settings are reset no matter what (even overrides config file)? very annoying.
[03:57] <anichols> ddecator: I can get frustrated very easily...especially when it's got to be 90 degrees in here, at midnight, after a very early morning. *laughs*
[03:57] <DanaG> hmm, what's a good, easy web page editor thingy to use?
[03:57] <ddecator> anichols: lol, understandable
[03:58] <DanaG> openoffice fails -- images don't size correctly or wrap correctly.
[03:58] <anichols> ddecator: How do I access it now that I've installed it?
[03:58] <anichols> ddecator: Purely command line?
[03:58] <anichols> ddecator: Nevermind, I got it running.
[03:58] <ddecator> anichols: System > Administration > Startup Disk Creator
[03:59] <anichols> ddecator: Create a USB startup disc == Startup Disk Creator
[03:59]  * anichols feels really stupid right now.
[03:59] <ddecator> anichols: might say different things depending on the version, haha
[04:00] <DanaG> ah, kompozer
[04:02] <DanaG> weird... sometimes when my system is under heavy CPU load, it'll generate a SATA bus error (audible indication is CD drive resetting).
[04:08] <anichols> DanaG: I just use Text Editor for manipulating html files.
[04:09] <DanaG> argh, kompozer fails even worse than openoffice.
[04:10] <DanaG> It won't even let me put a picture "centered" with text wrapping above and below.
[04:10] <DanaG> Openoffice tries... but it doesn't work in the browser.
[04:10] <DanaG> KompoZer.... doesn't even try.
[04:12] <DanaG> And it uses pixels, which makes things not dpi-independent.
[04:12] <DanaG> weird... removing the image and re-adding it fixed it.
[04:21] <DanaG> wow, kompozer has really bad UI.
[04:21] <DanaG> triple-click in a paragraph box... it opens a "properties" window UNFOCUSED.
[04:22] <nishanth> does any one know how to fix the left click when working the flash  player
[04:23] <DanaG> oh, and backspacing over paragraphs moves the editing cursor around seemingly randomly.
[04:23] <harisund> hey guys, apparently pastebinit package has a bug in Karmic that is fixed in Lucid. How do I get this package in karmic without having to upgrade anything else or my entire machine?
[04:24] <yofel> nishanth: there should be a pretty large bug on launchpad for it with a workaround, don't remember the bug number though
[04:26] <yofel> nishanth: ah, should be bug 410407
[04:26] <yofel> google to the rescue...
[04:26] <DanaG> oh, and I'll click in the middle of a line, and it will start typing on the LINE ABOVE!
[04:32] <harisund> Any suggestions on getting a package from Lucid to be installed in Karmic?
[04:33] <yofel> harisund: install the package and it's dependencies and pray to god you don't break anything
[04:34] <harisund> yofel: You mean by downloading a .deb file? Where do I find the .deb files?
[04:34] <yofel> harisund: packages.ubuntu.com
[04:36] <harisund> Thank you! I will do that now .. also, could you explain what 'backports' are?
[04:36] <yofel> harisund: btw, *which* package do you want to install?
[04:36] <yofel> harisund: an backports are updated packages from a newer release built for an older release
[04:37] <yofel> s/an/and
[04:37] <harisund> pastebinit <-- Which doesn't exist in the webpage you showed (it only shows there's a package for karmic .. and that has a bug which renders it useless pretty much)
[04:38] <yofel> harisund: that's odd, pastebinit 0.11.2-1 should be in karmic/universe
[04:38] <harisund> oh never mind, it exists in Lucid. I am going to try it now.
[04:38] <yofel> ah
[04:38] <harisund> 1.0-0ubuntu3: all exists in Lucid .. so would this be 'backported' to karmic?
[04:38] <yofel> harisund: no, backported would be actually built for karmic and available in karmic-backports
[04:39] <harisund> hmmm so my best bet would be to download this .deb and go ahead and install it?
[04:39] <yofel> harisund: well, installing pastebinit from lucid in hardy should work if it doesn't require an updated python-configobj
[04:40] <yofel> s/hardy/karmic
[04:40] <harisund> haha yeah ... I just wish there was a better, cleaner way that's al
[04:41] <yofel> harisund: not really, if anything it would be to get the lucid source and build the package for karmic
[04:41] <yofel> harisund: but for pastebinit just try to install the package, should work
[04:41] <harisund> :)
[04:47] <QueenZ> Hi
[04:48] <QueenZ> Why was Beta 1 delayed?
[04:48] <ddecator> we don't know the exact reason
[04:48] <yofel> QueenZ: here's what we know https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[04:48] <QueenZ> ddecator: that's sad
[04:49] <ddecator> yofel: do you just have the link at the ready at this point? ;)
[04:49] <QueenZ> haha
[04:49] <yofel> ddecator: I'll keep the page open in firefox until beta is released so I can c&p it :P
[04:50] <ddecator> yofel: you'll probably be up a while then =p
[04:50] <QueenZ> should be added to topic
[04:50] <yofel> QueenZ: that would make the topic too long and the message in the topic is enough usually
[04:51] <QueenZ> oh ok
[05:29] <sulle> How can i install lucid lynx through the terminal?
[05:29] <yofel> sulle: do you mean text-mode install from the cd or upgrade?
[05:30] <sulle> upgrade
[05:30] <sulle> dont have the cd, i have the netbook remix installed.
[05:31] <yofel> sulle: GUI: 'sudo update-manager -d' CLI: 'sudo do-release-upgrade -d', for the netbook remix  you should use update-manager I think
[05:34] <sulle> it only says that i got the newest release. but i dont have the version that i can see screenshots of on the net while searching for lucid lynx. I dont know if you understand what i am meaning.
[05:34] <Some_Person> Lucid just crashed and the partition is screwed up
[05:35] <yofel> sulle: what does 'lsb_release -rd' in a terminal tell you?
[05:35] <sulle> I have the netbook remix version, but i just want the lucid lynx desktop version.
[05:35] <Some_Person> GParted in my karmic install says "Unable to detect filesystem!"
[05:35] <Some_Person> It's detected as an "unknown" partition
[05:36] <Some_Person> How do I fix this?
[05:37] <yofel> sulle: can't help you then, I don't know how to switch between netbook and desktop
[05:37] <sulle> Okok, thanks alot annyways yofel :)
[05:38] <yofel> Some_Person: o.O, what's the partition supposed to be? ext4? and are you sure you're trying to mount the right device?
[05:38] <Some_Person> ext4
[05:38] <Some_Person> Yes, it's the right device
[05:39] <yofel> Some_Person: hm, you could try it to mount it with '-t ext4' or try to fsck.ext4 it first
[05:41] <Some_Person> thank you! fsck.ext4 seems to have fixed it
[05:47] <lunks> So, where can I find more about Lucid besides those links at the topic? I've read them already
[05:48] <lunks> Like 'Will there be a new skin?' or smth like it.
[05:53] <Linux000> lunks: the ui freeze is in effect, so the default theme will stay, but you can always use your own
[05:55] <ddecator> the default themes are still in development though
[05:55] <lunks> Linux000, sure, that was just an example. I just would like to know if there's an website citing some new features, or anything.
[05:55] <neatchee> Would anyone be able to help figure out why I can't seem to access my win7 samba share?
[05:55] <Linux000> lunks: None that I know of
[05:55] <Linux000> neatchee: I'll try
[05:56] <Linux000> neatchee: What's the problem?
[05:56] <neatchee> Linux000: smbclient -L //win7_IP_here/ gives me session request to win7_IP_here failed (Called name not present)
[05:57] <neatchee> it can read the sharenames just fine
[05:57] <yofel> lunks: there is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/ and the links on that page, but the beta release page would be a better source of information once  it's out
[05:57] <Linux000> Hmm... How did you set up the share on win7? could it a security issue?
[05:58] <lunks> Thanks, yofel! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidLynx/TechnicalOverview was the link. :D
[05:58] <lunks> Can I install menume on 9.04?
[05:58] <Linux000> neatchee: How did you set up the share on win7? could it a security issue?
[05:58] <lunks> MeMenu, actually. :>
[05:59] <neatchee> Linux000, doubtful.  Even with no shares set up in win7, that should at least give me a successful connection result
[05:59] <neatchee> that command isn't trying to access a particular share volume, it's just trying to connect to the smbserver
[05:59] <Linux000> lunks: no I've tried to, MeMenu is only in the Lucid Repo's
[05:59] <lunks> Linux000, is it cool as it sounds?
[06:00] <lunks> Linux000, I may try 10.04 when beta is out
[06:00] <Linux000> neatchee: Well, if it isn't a security issue, I'm out of help, I use win7 as a client, ubuntu as server
[06:01] <Linux000> lunks: Belive it or not, I upgraded to 10.04 in alpha just to try it, when it works, it's great, I still have issues with it
[06:02] <neatchee> Damn :\
[06:02] <lunks> Linux000, great to hear it's great! :D What issues did you encounter when using it?
[06:02] <lunks> neatchee, I usually try setting up RDP first, then when I'm successful and positively sure I can access the Windows machine, I try setting shares
[06:02] <Linux000> lunks: sometimes it randomly sets my status as offline, and I can't change it.
[06:03] <ddecator> Linux000: what sets your status as offline?
[06:03] <lunks> neatchee, but yeah, most of the times it's easier to use WinSCP on the otherside, SSH is great for anything. Blame smb. :P
[06:03] <Linux000> ddecator: MeMenu
[06:03] <ddecator> that's odd...
[06:03] <ddecator> Linux000: fully up-to-date i'm guessing?
[06:04] <neatchee> lunks: i'm RDP'd in right now :P
[06:04] <Linux000> Yes, excluding the beta, that wasn't released
[06:04] <lunks> neatchee, install winscp and be happy. :)
[06:04] <ddecator> strange, i've never had that
[06:05] <Linux000> Glad to see I'm the only one
[06:05] <lunks> Winscp+SSH is much better than smb@linux+windows
[06:06] <yofel> if you have ssh running you can also just use filezilla and sftp...
[06:07] <yofel> I think there was an issue with nautilus and password protected smb shares I think. The only samba share I have here is on a linux box and works fine
[06:09] <lunks> I have the exactly same setup as neatchee, but it wasn't working before for some reason. Now it does, and I didn't change anything, apparently.
[06:09] <neatchee> lunks: winscp doesn't help me -_-; i need the win7 box to be the server
[06:09] <leifw> so what's the deal with the beta build?
[06:09] <leifw> broken somehow?
[06:10] <yofel> leifw: seems so
[06:10] <leifw> :/
[06:10] <yofel> leifw: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[06:11] <leifw> ahh, just extra checking
[06:11] <leifw> that's nice, actually
[06:11] <FANUM> yofel: u having problems with samba?
[06:11] <yofel> FANUM: not me, neatchee has issues
[06:13] <neatchee> FANUM: can't seem to get ubuntu to connect to a share on a win7 box
[06:13] <neatchee> and all the documentation i've found is for setting up a samba server on linux
[06:13] <neatchee> instead of the other way around
[06:14] <FANUM> but you are trying to use the IP instead of the hostname?
[06:14] <neatchee> correct
[06:14] <neatchee> and wow
[06:15] <neatchee> Places -> Connect to Server... -> Windows share actually works
[06:15] <lunks> What do you use to manage contacts on Ubuntu?
[06:15] <neatchee> but any other method (smbclient from terminal, smb://IP_or_hostname/)
[06:15] <neatchee> doesn't work
[06:15] <neatchee> that's rather strange
[06:16] <FANUM> take a look here http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/75-63-windows-samba-issue
[06:18] <neatchee> FANUM: IP works from Connect to Server dialog, hostname does not
[06:18] <neatchee> and from that i got the proper working format for doing it direct from nautilus: smb://username@ip.add.re.ss/sharename
[06:19] <FANUM> yea that should be correct.
[06:19] <FANUM> i know there are some issues (and were with vista too) that may of not been resolved yet
[06:19] <neatchee> yeah but shouldn't smb://ip.add.re.ss/sharename expose a login prompt?
[06:20] <FANUM> yes
[06:20] <neatchee> yeah, it doesn't lol
[06:20] <FANUM> unless its in your keyring
[06:20] <neatchee> i'll submit a bug report on all this tomorrow
[06:21] <FANUM> yea, have u searched for one already? to save someone having to mark it a dupe?
[06:21] <neatchee> yup
[06:21] <neatchee> only a few samba related issues up right now
[06:21] <neatchee> and none of them are related to samba client
[06:22] <FANUM> ok, yea i would post that as soon as possible
[06:23] <neatchee> tomorrow, when i can think and type coherently lol
[06:24] <FANUM> lol
[06:33] <Fudge> hi, I believe I may have found a problem when reutrning from suspend and authenticating
[06:34] <ddecator> Fudge: and what is that?
[06:34] <hifi> probably the old alpha 3 bug
[06:34] <Fudge> when i turn machine back and get the dialog box up to authenticate, it says ehecking and nothing else. does not return me back to my gnome session
[06:34] <hifi> thats known and fixed I believe
[06:34] <Fudge> yes it is alpha3, havnt upgraded to beta yet :)
[06:35] <Fudge> ah thats fantastic, very glad :)
[06:35] <hifi> please upgrade before reporting
[06:35] <mgalas> hey fudge...
[06:35] <Fudge> I apolagize, I did come in last night to ask about it though for me that was the 18th and the beta may have already been released therefore prob could have ben told same thing. Could you please verify beta has fixed the issue?
[06:36] <Fudge> hi mgalas
[06:36] <mgalas> where are you getting you're beta?
[06:36] <mgalas> i've looking allover 4 it
[06:36] <hifi> is running update-manager that hard after installing a snapshot
[06:36] <rww> mgalas: it isn't out yet
[06:37] <ddecator> the .iso isn't
[06:37] <Fudge> hifi, I am throttled and am not using direct lucid, it is anothe rproject
[06:37] <ddecator> technically, if you have lucid installed and up-to-date, you're kind of running beta now =p
[06:37] <hifi> ah
[06:37] <Fudge> we in Australia get throttled to 64kb if go over download limit per month
[06:37] <mgalas> yawn!
[06:38] <hifi> that sucks, bad
[06:38] <Fudge> its not up to date as it was breaking screen reading modules, how ever that is not related to lucid it is a maintainer issue
[06:38] <Fudge> hifi mate it does indeed, upped from 60 to 100gig plan hopeully that helps
[06:40] <hifi> you easily forget even still people actually use dialup when you've used unlimited DSL for years
[06:42] <ddecator> i'm finally getting my grandma off of dialup
[06:44] <peanutsguy> well... night 2 u all...
[06:44] <peanutsguy> 12:45 am in mexico...
[06:45] <hifi> here 3G has practically replaced dialup
[06:45] <ddecator> 1:45am here and still going =)
[06:45] <ddecator> hifi: where is here?
[06:45] <hifi> finland
[06:46] <ddecator> cool =)
[06:46] <Linux000> ddecator: where is here?
[06:46] <ddecator> Linux000: chicago
[06:47] <Linux000> ddecator: My computer thinks I'm there right now, ubuntu setup doesn't have texas*groan*
[06:47] <DanaG> ugh, kompozer continually steals focus any time the mouse moves over it.
[06:47] <DanaG> And it in fact moves itself in front of all other windows!
[06:53] <Fudge> hifi i have adsl2 plan 20mps but only get 10down and they still throttle to dialup speed
[06:57] <ddecator> Fudge: is that for everyone?
[06:57] <Adelante> so, what about beta1? how soon?
[06:57] <ddecator> yes, soon
[06:57] <ddecator> tomorrow (or today, depending where you are)
[06:58] <Adelante> i'am waiting...
[06:59] <Fudge> typically a throttle speed in australia is 64kb, business plans can get 128kb. some isp's have better plans at higher cost how ever. Others you pay for the excess and retain speed and some like mine you can purchase data blocks but I used the 4gig I bought in two days and it cost me a rip off price of 20aud bout 17usd at a guess
[06:59] <ddecator> yah 4 gigs can go quick, haha
[07:00] <ddecator> Adelante: this is all we know about the beta delay: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[07:07] <balas> whats the best working soundchipset for lucid ?
[07:08] <balas> just works
[07:08] <balas> and well
[07:13] <balas> can anyone recommened a very nice sound chipset for ubuntu ?
[07:13] <balas> lucid
[07:15] <ddecator> what i have works, although i'm not sure what it is...you could check the wiki for supported hardware
[07:15] <balas> i have an ALC888 i was hoping for better for a single green analog plug
[07:16] <Fudge> it would be so cool if someone wrote an add in module for gnome volume control providing a graph eq
[07:19] <ddecator> balas: not sure if this is the kind of thing you are looking for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsSoundCards
[07:20] <balas> thanks
[07:33] <perscitus> uh. No beta1 release?
[07:34] <solid_liq> uh
[07:34] <solid_liq> I'm guessing it's just not quite out to mirrors yet
[07:35] <ddecator> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[07:35] <ddecator> perscitus: ^
[07:35] <perscitus> darn it. i was hoping to test in vbox
[07:35] <perscitus> I cant do it on machine til ATI driver release
[07:36] <ddecator> not much longer =)
[07:36] <perscitus> Think ATI will release ontime?
[07:36] <solid_liq> hrm, I really need to report a critical issue before the release
[07:36] <ddecator> idk what the status is, but i'm sure if there is trouble with ati then it's getting a good amount of attention from devs
[07:37] <ddecator> solid_liq: critical issue?
[07:37] <perscitus> solid_liq,  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/506656 ?
[07:37] <solid_liq> ddecator, my laptop, running 10.04 daily, hangs at random times (core i5 proc with its integrated Intel GMA GPU)
[07:38] <solid_liq> as in, complete lockup where I have to hold the power button for 5 seconds to shut it off
[07:38] <ddecator> is that bug report it?
[07:39] <solid_liq> ddecator, huh?
[07:39] <ddecator> solid_liq: the bug report that perscitus mentioned and ubottu displayed
[07:39] <solid_liq> ddecator, no
[07:40] <perscitus> ddecator,   yours is Intel though
[07:40] <ddecator> solid_liq: have you checked launchpad to see if it has been reported?
[07:41] <solid_liq> ddecator, I'm trying, but it's hard to search for
[07:41] <ddecator> solid_liq: best method is using google: "site:bugs.launchpad.net <search terms>"
[07:45] <perscitus> oh oh. solid_liq  ATI bug is fixed
[07:45] <perscitus> solid_liq,   bug 494699
[07:46] <solid_liq> I don't have ATI
[07:46] <rww> perscitus: so fglrx theoretically works on lucid now?
[07:46] <rww> s/now/after beta unfreeze/
[07:46] <perscitus> rww,   just comment
[07:46] <perscitus> last comment oops
[07:46] <ddecator> rww: might not be on the mirrors yet, but it should be out soon
[07:47] <perscitus> So it end up in  beta updates then i guess
[07:47] <ddecator> or they might add that just before releasing the beta
[07:47] <ddecator> if it affected a lot of people, that could have been part of why they delayed the release
[07:47] <rww> ddecator: it's coming out post-beta1, according to the bug
[07:48] <ddecator> rww: gotcha. my comp is really slow right now so i haven't looked at any of these reports =p
[07:48] <solid_liq> well, I just disabled compiz to see if that will fix the problem
[07:49] <perscitus> ddecator,  Alberto Milone  wrote 15 hours ago; have uploaded a new driver but it will be available only after the beta freeze (i.e. after beta 1 is released). In other words, you'll get it soon.
[07:49] <ddecator> well there you do
[07:49] <ddecator> s/do/go
[07:49] <perscitus> so, i could do dist upgrade around beta3 and be fine
[07:49] <solid_liq> ddecator, you forgot the closing '/' ;)
[07:50] <perscitus> oops beta2
[07:50] <ddecator> solid_liq: you all know what i mean =p
[07:50] <solid_liq> :P
[07:50] <ddecator> hey kermiac
[07:51] <perscitus> Branding doesnt appear til RC though
[07:53] <kermiac> hey ddecator :) how're u going mate?
[07:54] <ddecator> kermiac: good, finally finished my finals this morning so i can get back to bug work and getting songbird to build =). how have you been?
[07:55] <kermiac> awesome :) I'm great - it's friday afternoon so no more work for 2 whole days, lol
[07:55] <ddecator> pffft, almost 3am here =p
[07:57]  * kermiac looks through the backscroll
[07:59] <fonseg> according to LucidReleaseSchedule, Licid Beta1 land on March 18. Why i still don't see it any where?
[07:59] <ddecator> fonseg: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[07:59] <ddecator> kermiac: mostly people asking about that =p
[07:59] <perscitus> ddecator,   beat me to it
[08:00] <perscitus> DOH
[08:00] <ddecator> perscitus: haha, i'm just ready for everyone to ask that =p
[08:00] <perscitus> Or just redirect people to the /topic
[08:00] <ddecator> i thought they weren't adding it to the topic...
[08:01] <ddecator> oh hey, look at that, haha
[08:02]  * ddecator -crosses fingers hoping that splite builds-
[08:02] <perscitus> ddecator,   just keep mailing list link handy if they ask why
[08:02] <ddecator> perscitus: i'm making sure not to copy anything else, haha
[08:03] <ddecator> although i'm getting some sleep after this build either fails or finishes
[08:03] <ddecator> and it failed...
[08:03] <perscitus> What build
[08:05] <ddecator> i'm trying to get songbird to build for lucid. it won't be in the repos, but if i can get it patched then we can possibly add it for 10.10. at the very least we want to update the ppa so it works with lucid
[08:05] <ddecator> i'm going to have to record the build log and sift through it...tomorrow though, i'm not staying up another half hour just for that, haha
[08:05] <ddecator> night all
[08:20] <Ian_Corne> !logs
[08:26] <hsunda3> Before I upgrade, is there medibuntu / partner repos for Lucid with the same packages available in karmic? Such as ubuntu-restricted-extras, sun java/acrobat reader/flash plugins etc?
[08:32] <rww> hsunda3: sun java is in partner in lucid, flashplugin-installer is in multiverse, I assume ubuntu-restricted-extras still is too.
[08:33] <rww> yes, it is
[08:33] <hsunda3> Good. Thanks :D
[08:33] <rww> as far as acrobat reader, I don't see it, though I don't know where it was in Karmic, so...
[08:33] <hsunda3> ugh
[08:33] <hsunda3> I knew it was too good to be true.
[08:33] <rww> hsunda3: it might still be there, I'm not omniescent :)
[08:34] <hsunda3> hmm
[08:35] <CosmiChaos> my 8600gts 16x on nforce 630i 16x pci express still is only at bus type 4x :((((( any idea? http://paste.ubuntu.com/397463/
[08:45] <Hew> Hi. Trying to access a particular file causes the process accessing it to freeze up. When trying to copy it, nautilus reports "Error splicing file: Input/output error". HDD usage seems to freeze 100% on it, and CPU time goes 100% IOWait. Any ideas how to debug this? I'm running ext4 and ecryptfs.
[08:47] <BUGabundo_remote> bRoas
[08:48] <rye> Hew, are there any messages in dmesg?
[08:50] <Hew> rye, yea looks like a whole heap (I always forget to check dmesg..), I'll try copying again to isolate them.
[08:54] <nhaines> Hew: sounds like a bad drive.  I'd check the SMART status.
[08:54] <Hew> rye, http://paste.ubuntu.com/397686/
[08:55] <Hew> nhaines, the drive is a brand new 1.5TB Seagate. I don't expect it to be a drive issue.
[08:55] <rye> sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error - auto reallocate failed
[08:55] <rye> Hew, please, make a backup of the drive first
[08:55] <Hew> will do
[08:56] <Hew> I already have a few backups from fairly recently since this is a fresh install with alpha 3
[08:56] <rye> because something is definitely wrong at the low level, be it a drive or controller, but that's not ecryptfs issue, it does not touch the hardware parts directly for them to start emitting such errors
[08:57] <Hew> FYI this file is a partially downloaded one using bittorrent
[08:58] <nhaines> Hew: I do level 2 tech supprt for Western Digital.  :)
[08:59] <Hew> nhaines, I'll prepare for the criticism of choosing Seagate this time :P
[08:59] <nhaines> I won't suggest a WD Caviar Blue drive ;) but low-level errors are pretty clear-cut.  Could be the drive, or could be the controller.
[08:59] <Hew> new HDD and new mobo.. ok then.
[08:59] <litropy> Hi, all. I just upgraded from 9.10 to 10.04 and got a textual interface after grub asking me to log in. I logged in with my account, Iand now I'm in a bash shell.
[09:00] <litropy> what happened between login and shell:
[09:00] <rww> litropy: which method did you use to upgrade?
[09:00] <litropy> 157 packages can be updated
[09:00] <rye> Hew, the bad thing about the controller is that you might read not the same data you have written - I have lost a whole year of photo data just because I was sure that whatever I write to the drive can be read the same way...
[09:01] <litropy> rww: sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[09:01] <nhaines> Hew: well, it could be either one.  Try the drive in a known-good system.  If the problem follows the drive, you know the problem.  Try a different SATA cable, as well.  Different SATA port, different power connector from the MB.
[09:01] <litropy> I got 9 callbacks supppressed
[09:01] <sulle> Hi, i just installed lucid lynx through windows. And now when i start my computer up again i choose to start ubuntu. But then i get prompted with GRUB. I have tried to google it but cant find the right tutorial. Can annyone please help me out ?.
[09:01] <rww> litropy: and it's now telling you you have 157 updates? did you get any errors or interruptions during upgrade?
[09:02] <litropy> ACPI: EC: missing confirmations, switch off interrupt mode
[09:02] <litropy> just with grub and an unused partition
[09:02] <Hew> thanks for the help rye and nhaines, I've gtg now but will be back later to test :)
[09:02] <litropy> rww: just with grub and an unused partition
[09:02] <nhaines> Hew: best of luck.  :)
[09:04] <litropy> ACPCI Exception: AE_TIME, returned by Handler for [EmbeddedControl] 20090521 evregion-424
[09:04] <NoReflex> hello! I'm having a problem with starting lucid-lynx alpha3 (installer and livecd) on my Dell Inspiron 1520. After about 30-40 seconds I get a screen with colored vertical stripes (white, brown, orange). I can't do anything (Ctrl+Alt+Fx, Ctrl+Alt+Bksp)...My notebook has a nvidia GPU ... can it be caused by the nouveau driver?
[09:04] <litropy> there are 4 more ACPI errors. I can type them if you like
[09:04] <rye> NoReflex, try booting with splash disabled... Do you have second display connected?
[09:05] <NoReflex> rye, I don't have a second display and I tried booting with splash disabled....it showed some boot messages and afterwards I heared the startup sound and the stripes appeared
[09:05] <litropy> rww: Note: after the reboot dialogue, Update-Manager ran another check for updates. I didn't install them.
[09:06] <litropy> rww: the initial upgrade had completed.
[09:06] <czr_> any ideas when the beta1 will hit the interwebs?
[09:06] <czr_> (yes, I saw the topic)
[09:06] <rww> czr_: sometime on the 19th
[09:07] <rye> dell inspiron 1520... hm, could you please try the daily image, not alpha3 ?
[09:07] <rye> NoReflex, ^
[09:07] <rww> litropy: weird. I'd probably apply the pending upgrades and reboot, see if that helps
[09:07] <czr_> rww, which timezone?
[09:07] <NoReflex> rye, where can I get the daily image>?
[09:07] <rww> czr_: one of them.
[09:07] <rww> czr_: it's not a hard and fast deadline :)
[09:07] <czr_> rww :-).
[09:08] <rye> NoReflex, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily-live/current/
[09:08] <czr_> ah, ok then.
[09:08] <litropy> rww: what's the command again? sudo apt-get update requires internet and I've got WPA enc.
[09:08] <czr_> so it might be pushed forward again?
[09:08] <rww> litropy: "sudo apt-get upgrade" might work, if it already downloaded the packages during install
[09:08] <rye> !daily
[09:08] <rye> wow
[09:08] <rww> czr_: unlikely, but yes, it could be
[09:08] <czr_> right. I'll wait until tomorrow then.
[09:08] <NoReflex> rye, downloading now, thank you
[09:08] <czr_> rww, thanks
[09:09] <rww> litropy: sorry, during the upgrade to 10.04 **
[09:09] <litropy> how do I iwconfig a WPA key again? I know for WEP it's just key <key>
[09:09] <rye> NoReflex, I had such issue with libdrm/kernel mismatch but now I can boot with nouveau and plymouth, well, if the secondary monitor is disconnected
[09:10]  * BUGabundo_remote will kick the arse of the next person who changes sources and distupgrades.... RTFM
[09:10] <litropy> rww: they didn't. My wireless NIC is functional.
[09:11] <litropy> I'll just switch to WEP real quck
[09:14] <CosmiChaos> my 8600gts 16x on nforce 630i 16x pci express still is only at bus type 4x :((((( any idea? http://paste.ubuntu.com/397463/
[09:15] <litropy> shit
[09:16] <litropy> now I'm hanging on "wlan-L link becomes ready
[09:32] <litropy> well that's hilarious
[09:32] <litropy> I just did a startx
[09:33] <litropy> and I am UP!!!!!
[09:33] <litropy> except... shit
[09:33] <litropy> no touchpad
[09:33] <elky> litropy, could you cut the fecal language please?
[09:33] <litropy> sorry elky will do
[09:34] <elky> thanks
[09:34] <litropy> yep. no keyboard response. Cold reboot.
[09:37] <litropy> My router's network is now open (unencrypted) and the router has been reset. Yet I still can't connect to the router wirelessly (timeout), and I do not have an eth interface configured.
[09:38] <espen77> litropy: is dhcp running on it?
[09:38] <litropy> After reboot, still no keyboard nor touchpad. My trackball does get USB power (optical) but no response from the computer
[09:39] <litropy> espen77: dhclient functions, but all packets lost.
[09:39] <litropy> ap is unassociated
[09:40] <litropy> also, it seems I now have grub 1.98
[09:41] <espen77> litropy: ment, is router running dhcp server, but if all packets are lost it is probably not that
[09:42] <litropy> espen77: I'm fine on this computer, connected to the same router
[09:42] <espen77> litropy: mac filering?
[09:42] <espen77> *filtering
[09:43] <litropy> and I swear ubuntu senses my input attempts, because I see the crash reporter bang after I touch the touchpad. And I'm getting a system beep 15 secs after I let go.
[09:43] <toto__> hi all
[09:44] <litropy> espen77: nno MACs filtered.
[09:44] <litropy> no*
[09:46] <espen77> litropy: can you see your network in nm?
[09:47] <MarcoPau> hello guys I upgraded to lucid yesterday but KDE has the exact same look and the resolution seems all like stretched out. any hint?
[09:47] <litropy> what's the command to check? keep in mind if you're asking about something that loads outside of a bash shell, I can't check
[09:48] <espen77> litropy: sudo iwlist wlan0 scan
[09:49] <litropy> espen77: iwlist wlan0 "No scan results"
[09:49] <espen77> litropy: did you sudo?
[09:49] <NoReflex> rye, I tried the current image but no luck...the screen still "freezes"
[09:50] <litropy> espen77: yes, the network is there after sudo. Yes, I sudo'ed iwconfig and dhclient's cocnfig
[09:50] <toto__> after upgrade to Lucid, i can't use proprietary driver normally : used but not actived, i try many ways (the activation hangs : Low Screen Resolutions ...) sorry for my bad english thanks)
[09:51] <espen77> what line u use for iwconfig?
[09:51] <sulle> Hi, i just installed lucid lynx through windows. And now when i start my computer up again i choose to start ubuntu. But then i get prompted with GRUB. I have tried to google it but cant find the right tutorial. Can annyone please help me out ?.
[09:52] <rye> toto__, nvidia proprietary driver?
[09:52] <litropy> iwconfig wlan0 essid mynetwork
[09:52] <toto__> yes
[09:52] <litropy> mynetwork is currently unencrypted
[09:52] <rye> toto__, do you have /usr on a separate partition?
[09:52] <litropy> for safe measure, ironically
[09:52] <NoReflex> rye, I posted a picture of the screen  taken with my phone here: http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/210/dsc02751cg.jpg
[09:53] <espen77> litropy: you need more than that....
[09:53] <toto__> rye, / swap and /home i made an upgrade-manager (karmic to lucid)
[09:53] <NoReflex> isn't there an option like safe graphics in lynx anymore? or an option to use the old nv instead of nouveau?
[09:53] <litropy> espen77: like enc off? tried that as well
[09:54] <litropy> espen77: wlan0 is already in managed mode
[09:54] <toto__> rye, update-manager sorry ...
[09:54] <NoReflex> like a boot parameter nouveau=off?
[09:55] <sulle> annyone here have an idea to what i can do?
[09:56] <espen77> litropy: try appending channel auto ap any rate auto modu auto
[09:59] <litropy> espen77: setting modulation failed. Took that out of the command. Now: same result
[10:00] <espen77> litropy: and with commit at the end?
[10:00] <litropy> commit?
[10:01] <espen77> litropy: yes
[10:01] <espen77> sulle: it just say grub and nothing else?
[10:01] <litropy> I don't know what you mean, and I want to apologize about that.
[10:02] <espen77> litropy: append commit to the end of your iwconfig line, some cards need this
[10:03] <litropy> espen77: SET failed.
[10:05] <rye> toto__, could you please paste the output of mount command to http://paste.ubuntu.com ?
[10:06] <litropy> espen77: if it would be easier to config my NIC and connect directly to the modem for the update, I'd be willing to do that. But I don't know where to start
[10:08] <toto__> rye: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/397710/
[10:09] <rye> toto__, could you please run "mount" command in the terminal and paste the output of that command to http://paste.ubuntu.com ?
[10:10] <toto__> rye: http://paste.ubuntu.com/397712/
[10:11] <toto__> since i can't boot on sda2 (vista) but it's not a problem finally :)
[10:11] <litropy> espen77: after each reboot, after iwconfig wlan0 [args] I get: [ 242.596144] ADDRCONF[NETDEV_CHANGE): wlan0: link becomes ready
[10:11] <NoReflex> rye, still here?
[10:12] <litropy> after [enter] I get my bash prompt back.
[10:12] <litropy> espen77: sudo*
[10:12] <espen77> litropy: sec let me check if my recovery card has a script...
[10:13] <litropy> espen77: and once again I did get ACPI errors upon the initial reboot after the upgrade
[10:14] <rye> NoReflex, d/l daily to see whether my nv is broken the same way
[10:14] <litropy> This is on an asus 1005-ha pux
[10:14] <koltroll> !daily koltroll
[10:15] <espen77> litropy: this works here "/etc/init.d/networking restart" "iwconfig wlan0 essid Yuna mode managed channel auto ap auto key [1] 11223344" "dhclient wlan0
[10:17] <espen77> litropy: all commands in sudo -i, havent tried just sudo
[10:17] <NoReflex> rye, I tried daily as well... the screen image changed a bit but it still freezes
[10:17] <NoReflex> rye, I posted a picture of the screen  taken with my phone here: http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/210/dsc02751cg.jpg
[10:18] <rye> NoReflex, yes, i have seen that, I am downloading the daily image to burn it and see whether it fails the same way on my hw
[10:18] <NoReflex> rye, ok  - got it
[10:19] <litropy> espen77: interfaces configured okay, no errors on iwconfig, all run sudo -i, still no response
[10:20] <rye> NoReflex, but frankly speaking, something is really broken w/ plymouth/nouveau right now
[10:20] <litropy> espen77: router is configured for auto dhcp, no mac filtering, no DHCP reservations
[10:20] <rye> but 1520 has a different hw from mine..
[10:21] <rye> NoReflex, so when you start w/o splash enabled, plymouth is not showing but the X startup is broken, right?
[10:22] <litropy> espen77: and router is visible. iwlist registers it.
[10:22] <espen77> litropy: hmm strange...i have to admit i rarely connect to wifi by commandline...
[10:24] <litropy> espen77: interesting: wlan0 has an entry in owconfig, and then there's wlan0:avahi, which is up, multicast, inet addr: 169.x.x.x bcast: 169.x.x.x mask: 255.255.0.0
[10:25] <litropy> iwconfig*
[10:25] <litropy> and wlan0 has an inet6 addre
[10:25] <litropy> I'm assuming that's ipv6
[10:26] <NoReflex> rye, what is plymouth?
[10:26] <espen77> litropy: 169 is auto config ip, it is not connected....try ifconfig wlan0 down && iwconfig wlan0 down
[10:26] <rye> NoReflex, graphical boot application, replaced usplash
[10:26] <NoReflex> rye, when I start without splash and quiet it show boot messages and then the freeze screen appears...I can't see any errors
[10:27] <NoReflex> but I do hear the startup sound...so it must be doing something
[10:27] <espen77> litropy: then try setting your wlan card and then iwconfig wlan0 up
[10:28] <rye> NoReflex, nouveau has replaced nv driver in Lucid Lynx, probably your hw is not properly initialized and therefore the system thinks that it displays everything properly, no hw lock-up is created, and gdm plays the login sound
[10:28] <litropy> espen77: it's down. there's no iwconfig down
[10:29] <litropy> oh wow
[10:29] <litropy> looks like I might be registering my NIC now
[10:29] <litropy> for some reason
[10:30] <litropy> wait pan0 is something else
[10:30] <litropy> bluetooth?
[10:30] <NoReflex> rye, any ideas what I could try?
[10:31] <rye> NoReflex, the downside of using VMs for testing only is that no DVD/CD-RWs at home :-/
[10:32] <litropy> yep that's bluetooth
[10:33] <litropy> I just enabled my eth0 NIC in the BIOS
[10:33] <litropy> about to try that
[10:33] <rye> NoReflex, nm, found :)
[10:35] <rye> wow, brasero runs w/ indicator applet
[10:36] <rye> cute!
[10:37] <litropy> there she goes
[10:37] <litropy> eth0 connected like a charm
[10:38] <litropy> did a apt-get update then apt get upgrade
[10:38] <rye> toto__, ok, could you please describe in more detail how the boot procedure goes?
[10:40] <NoReflex> rye, "nm"?
[10:40] <NoReflex> like in network-manager?
[10:40] <rye> NoReflex, nevermind (or network-manager, depending on the context:)
[10:40] <rye> ok, got it burned, now time to reboot
[10:41] <NoReflex> rye, ok, and thank you for helping me
[10:43] <toto__> rye, normally except Low Screen Resolutions if i install by hangs method, some errors (i forgot lines) at first but it's ok and i can run glxgears with system's drivers
[10:47]  * rye is now reconnecting from another location, main system is being booted with live
[10:50] <toto__> rye: http://paste.ubuntu.com/397741/
[10:51] <rye> toto__, [   14.017687] [drm] Initialized nouveau 0.0.15 20090420 for 0000:01:00.0 on minor 0
[10:51] <rye> toto__, yup, nouveau driver is there
[10:53] <toto__> rye: it's nvidia-current ? we must change xor.conf 'nvidia' driver ?
[10:54] <litropy> Okay all, I've fully upgraded from 9.10 to 10.04. Upon reboot, I still get a text login, then a bash prompt. Upon startx, GNOME does load, however my keyboard, and touchpad are unresponsive. They are enabled in the BOIS. On my Asus 1005HA, pressing the disable/enable touchpad button does no good. Crash Reporter can be seen in the bar on top.Ethernet works. My optical trackball lights when...
[10:54] <litropy> ...it's plugged in. And I get a periodic system beep  (unless that's my HD jolting)
[10:54] <litropy> Upon the initial reboot, I got ACPI errors.
[10:54] <litropy> (after the initial upgrade)
[10:56] <nbound> aww man beta delayed :(
[10:56] <rye> toto__, no, kernel modules are not blacklisted
[10:56] <nbound> it already is 19/3/10 here! :P
[10:56] <rye> toto__, well, they are blacklisted but for some reason blacklist does not work
[10:56] <nbound> 2hrs to 20/3/10
[10:56] <nbound> :(
[10:57] <nbound> does anyone know of anywhere with a torrent newer than the last alpha?
[10:57] <rye> nbound, !daily ?
[10:57] <rye> !daily nbound
[10:57] <nbound> !daily
[10:57] <NoReflex> rye, I laso thought of the possibility to blacklist nouveau...
[10:58] <rye> how does one point ubottu at someone?...
[10:58] <rye> NoReflex, well, in case n... hmmm
[10:58] <rye> hmmmm
[10:58] <nbound> theres no daily torrent there??
[10:58] <rye> i know how to break nouveau from startup
[10:58] <rye> nouveau.modeset=0
[10:58] <rye> this disables modesetting and nouveau does not work with modesetting disabled
[10:58] <rye> i.e. that would fall back to VESA driver
[10:58] <rye> NoReflex, ^
[10:59] <nbound> so does anyone know of a torrent newer than the last alpha?
[10:59] <toto__> rye: just this command ?
[10:59] <NoReflex> rye, since this is a live cd this would have to work as a boot parameter, right?
[11:00] <litropy> ::weepysniff::
[11:00] <rye> NoReflex, yup
[11:01] <rye> toto__, that would not prevent nouveau from loading to the kernel
[11:01] <nbound> !metalink
[11:01] <nbound> :\
[11:01] <litropy> I really don't know what to do
[11:03] <nbound> so how do these metalinks work?
[11:03] <nbound> :s
[11:03] <toto__> rye, thank you, i boot with this line :)
[11:04] <nbound> :\
[11:04] <nbound> :(
[11:04] <nbound> :'(
[11:05] <nbound> can someone plz tell me how to use these metalinks?
[11:05] <NoReflex> nbound, which metalinks?
[11:05] <nbound> for the daily torrent
[11:05] <nbound> and why we cant just have a torrent link? :S
[11:06] <toto__> bye
[11:07] <nbound> plz
[11:08] <litropy> okay, it looks like I'm the result of not seeing this first: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1343434
[11:08] <NoReflex> nbound, the torrents seem fine to me...for example: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/alpha-3/lucid-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
[11:09] <litropy> "Due to the fact that uploads to the repositories of the active development branch are asynchronous and uncoordinated, dependencies of certain packages may arrive later than the dependent package."
[11:09] <litropy> crazysauce
[11:09] <nbound> for the daily, ive been told that there is a daily build torrent
[11:10] <nbound> which seems to be through this metalink
[11:10] <nbound> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ <--- see here
[11:11] <nbound> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20100318/lucid-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
[11:11] <nbound> thats where it links to, which is not found
[11:11] <nbound> ie. error 404
[11:12] <nbound> but i can only see the metalink as a text file anyway
[11:13] <nbound> so any ideas?
[11:13] <nbound> anyone?
[11:13] <litropy> I'm just going to reinstall 9.10, then carefully update tomorrow. to 10.04
[11:13] <litropy> nbound, it looks like a hash
[11:14] <litropy> hang on
[11:14] <nbound> id just download the iso straight but my connection has a habit of dying after a few hundred mb, and not restarting from where it leaves off
[11:15] <nbound> that, and torrents are faster
[11:15] <nbound> <10mins vs 1hr for an iso
[11:17] <nbound> surely i cant be the first to try and use this "metalink" :\
[11:18] <litropy> nbound: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/lucid-desktop-amd64.metalink
[11:18] <litropy> shows http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20100318/lucid-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
[11:18] <nbound> which is 404 not found
[11:18] <nbound> :S
[11:19] <litropy> ah
[11:19] <litropy> yeah
[11:19] <litropy> it's not there
[11:19] <litropy> someone needs to add the torrent file
[11:19] <litropy> if you go to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
[11:19] <litropy> and click the latest
[11:20] <litropy> it brings you back to where you started: the index file of the directory, which just scans the current dir, formats it, then lists the dir contents
[11:20] <rye> nbound, wget -c http://url/ ?
[11:20] <litropy> so once again, it's not there
[11:21] <nbound> rye but its not there apparently?
[11:22] <rye> nbound, re - the file not being downloaded if that is disconnected
[11:23] <nbound> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
[11:23] <nbound> 2010-03-19 22:23:11 ERROR 404: Not Found.
[11:24] <litropy> and yeah
[11:24] <litropy> here's the actual dir listing
[11:24] <litropy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/source/
[11:24] <litropy> where the file should be
[11:24] <litropy> but it's definitely not there
[11:25] <litropy> it's weid - not even the 17th's torrent is there
[11:25] <nbound> hmmm well thats pretty gay :\
[11:25] <litropy> weird*
[11:25] <nbound> yeah i tried that too :P
[11:25] <nbound> someone is slacking off!
[11:25] <nbound> lol
[11:26] <rye> nbound, I can send you the link to my host - 10Mbit upload rate
[11:26] <nbound> would be awesome
[11:26] <rye> stress-testing the vm server, he-he
[11:26] <litropy> yaaaawn okay time for sleep. Like I said, downgrading then carefully re-upgrading tomorrow. Cursed Partial Upgrades ...
[11:26] <nbound> lol
[11:26] <rye> nbound, w/ daily iso, right?
[11:26] <nbound> yes plz
[11:27] <litropy> hmmm
[11:27] <nbound> should be fast enough from there not to die
[11:27] <rye> nbound, i386?
[11:27] <nbound> amd64
[11:27] <litropy> nbound: is it better to go from 9.10 to the daily?
[11:28] <nbound> i always do a clean install, but each to their own
[11:28] <Dr_Willis> actually if you update/upgraded - it would bne the same as the daily i think
[11:28] <rye> nbound, ok, d/l ing amd64 - 10 minutes pls
[11:28] <nbound> thank you very much rye :)
[11:28] <nbound> Dr_Willis, it would
[11:30] <litropy> i see Dr_Willis. btw, you wouldn't be able to save my partial then full upgrade would you? I got a login screen then a bash shell upon bootup, startx loads gnome but I have no keyboard or mouse even though they're bios enabled, might be because of acpi errors?
[11:31] <nbound> not even caps/num lights?
[11:32] <litropy> nbound: let me check
[11:33] <TheGrammarFreak_> Yo, I have just been trying out compiz with KDE4.4, (is this the wrong place for this), and it doesnt't work. The KDE window decorator just crashes
[11:34] <litropy> nbound: not even caps light. no num lock light here.
[11:34] <Dr_Willis> ive had some issues with X not starting properly  also  on my netbook.
[11:34] <Dr_Willis> but my stuff works.
[11:35] <litropy> Dr_Willis: any ideas?
[11:35] <Dr_Willis> TheGrammarFreak_:  from what ive used of kde4.4 - i dont see much need to use compiz with it. It has all sorts of effects on its own
[11:35] <Dr_Willis> litropy:  Not really
[11:35] <nbound> its been a while since ive had one doing that on starting X, but id suspect its actually frozen for some reason, if not, then the num and caps light should still work, handled by the bios IIRC
[11:35] <Dr_Willis> Ive noticed X crashing here when i go to the console via alt-ctrl-F# also
[11:36] <datag> who knows which Qt version will be final in lucid? 4.6.2 or the not yet released 4.6.3? i'm asking because there is a serious problem with a package using 4.6.2...
[11:37] <Dr_Willis> check the release schedule and see when the freezed take affect.
[11:37] <Dr_Willis> !release
[11:37] <litropy> Dr_Willis: nbound the thing is, everything else works. And while I can't move my mouse, I get an animated popup that wireless networks are available. And the popup fades in and out without stuttering. I do have a crash bang in my menubar. but I can't see what it says
[11:37] <Dr_Willis> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[11:38] <Dr_Willis> litropy:  ssh in and check logs perhaps.
[11:38] <Dr_Willis> litropy:  mouse does work on the GDM login?
[11:38] <TheGrammarFreak_> Dr_Willis, Yeah, but some users, myself included, prefer compiz. More contol, more effects and I prefer the way of engaging effects, like the cube stuff. I haven't been able to recreate that with kwin
[11:39] <nbound> !litropy, no idea here then
[11:39] <nbound> oops
[11:39] <nbound> lol
[11:39] <nbound> hehe
[11:39] <Dr_Willis> Hmm. I got a CUBE effect in KDE here.
[11:39] <litropy> Dr_Willis: no GDM. I log in textually.
[11:40] <litropy> ally. gnome doesn't auto-start as well
[11:40] <litropy> ugh
[11:40] <litropy> I'm too tired
[11:40] <TheGrammarFreak_> So do I, but it's ctrl+f11 to engage it
[11:40] <datag> can i somewhere see which Qt version is planned for final lucid? currently it's 4.6.2.. I doubt 4.6.3 will make it into it?
[11:41] <TheGrammarFreak_> I prefer ctrl+alt+click
[11:41] <litropy> night guys thx for help
[11:41] <Dr_Willis> datag:  it depends.. if theres big enough issues it could still be added
[11:41] <Dr_Willis> datag:  from what i read at --->   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
[11:42] <TheGrammarFreak_> Also, is the first beta out yet?
[11:42] <Dr_Willis> Topic says its due today
[11:42] <datag> datag: well, at least one package in tree is completely useless with Qt 4.6.2.. i'm going to report the bug later
[11:42] <TheGrammarFreak_> Yesterday where I am
[11:42] <datag> argh... Dr_Willis
[11:42] <nbound> TheGrammarFreak_, pushed back till the 19/3
[11:43] <TheGrammarFreak_> Ah, ok
[11:43] <nbound> even tho its almost 20/3 here :P
[11:43] <TheGrammarFreak_> Lol
[11:43] <datag> Dr_Willis: where do you see the info about Qt version in the release schedule page?
[11:43] <datag> Dr_Willis: or did you mean generally
[11:43] <Dr_Willis> datag:  read about how  freezes work
[11:43] <TheGrammarFreak_> Will there be anything to allow compiz in Kubuntu?
[11:44] <Dr_Willis> TheGrammarFreak_:  more and more i see gnome and kde fighting each other. :) having both on the same system seems to cause more and more problems lately for me
[11:44] <datag> Dr_Willis: alright, thanks
[11:45] <TheGrammarFreak_> I don't want both, I want compiz on KDE
[11:45] <Dr_Willis> Good Luck  :)
[11:45] <TheGrammarFreak_> I just can't get the window decoration
[11:46] <Dr_Willis> window decoration is handled by one of the 3 decorators you can choose from
[11:46] <Dr_Willis> I thinkits kde-decorator, gtk-decorator and emerald
[11:46] <TheGrammarFreak_> Ye, I want it to be handled by the KDE one, but it crashed with compiz
[11:47] <TheGrammarFreak_> Which, if you ask me, is a bug that should be fixed
[11:48] <Dr_Willis> shouldent most bugs be fixed. :)
[11:48] <nbound> lol
[11:48] <TheGrammarFreak_> Yeah, but they're not
[11:52] <TheGrammarFreak_> How do I go about filing a bug report?
[11:56] <sobersab1e> hi.
[11:57] <sobersab1e> how do I change boot default entry with this grub2 ?
[11:58] <sobersab1e> do I need to run anything after editing /etc/default/grub ?
[11:59] <JoshuaL> sobersab1e, not sure but i believe update-grub2
[12:09] <MarcoPau> hello guys, I upgraded to lucid yesterday but KDE has the exact same look as before and the resolution seems all like stretched out. any hint?
[12:11] <TheGrammarFreak_> drivers?
[12:13] <MarcoPau> TheGrammarFreak_: radeon
[12:14] <TheGrammarFreak_> Are they installed?
[12:14] <TheGrammarFreak_> This is a usual culprit
[12:14] <MarcoPau> was just checking xorg log, there seems to be somthing wrong
[12:14] <TheGrammarFreak_> Fix it then
[12:15] <TheGrammarFreak_> Lol
[12:15] <MarcoPau> heh, guess somthing slipped out from the upgrade :)
[12:16] <TheGrammarFreak_> Ye
[12:19] <MarcoPau> TheGrammarFreak_: well they're installed but xorg loads vesa...
[12:20] <apavlov> Folks, I had my "Switch Off" gnome applet button disabled (slightly grayed out) after a recent update. I removed it and wanted to re-add, but there is no "Switch Off" applet in the list. Any clues?
[12:36] <MarcoPau> althou I only have xserver-xorg-video-radeon installed, xorg runs vesa drivers. what am I supposed to do?
[12:41] <[BG]ZloboMiR> Hello, is Lucid already stable enough to be used for daily tasks such as music, mail, movies, browsing?
[12:43] <jussi01> [BG]ZloboMiR: its not proiduction ready, and if you can cope with possible loss of data and or operation, then I would say yes, but if you have important stuff, then absolutely not.
[12:44] <[BG]ZloboMiR> well, I am a home user, I just mean is there smo who is using it already and is happy :)
[12:44] <swoody> [BG]ZloboMiR: I am, and I am :)
[12:44] <[BG]ZloboMiR> 9.10 with KDE4 broke Amarok, so...
[12:44] <swoody> of course, I have a backup of all my data that I don't want to lose just in case ;)
[12:45] <[BG]ZloboMiR> I am thinking, how worse it could become :)
[12:45] <swoody> [BG]ZloboMiR: but I am using gnome, so I can't say anything as to KDE's stability
[12:45] <[BG]ZloboMiR> well, it does not mess with the fs I guess
[12:45] <jussi01> [BG]ZloboMiR: as I said, there are still breakages and there maybe some days that you just cant use it, or if something bad goes on then maybe a reinstall, so I wouldnt use it for any important data. however, i do use it at home myself, and its been ok
[12:45] <swoody> but I've had problems w/ KDE on 'stable' releases :/
[12:46] <[BG]ZloboMiR> Um, so better wait
[12:46] <[BG]ZloboMiR> I can't archive my data, no place
[12:46] <jussi01> [BG]ZloboMiR: I strongly suggest you wait then
[12:47] <[BG]ZloboMiR> oh well ;)
[12:47] <[BG]ZloboMiR> Meanwhile, any KDE player with media library?
[12:47] <swoody> [BG]ZloboMiR: do you have under 2GB of data to backup? Might try out UbuntuOne :)
[12:47] <[BG]ZloboMiR> Except Amarok?
[12:47] <[BG]ZloboMiR> 1TB
[12:47] <swoody> well, that is a bit more ;) lol
[12:47] <[BG]ZloboMiR> music and movies
[12:48] <swoody> you could always take the time, and email them to yourself as attachments ;)
[12:48] <swoody> I'm sure that wouldn't take too long
[12:48] <[BG]ZloboMiR> Funny :)
[12:48] <[BG]ZloboMiR> for music ok
[12:48] <[BG]ZloboMiR> But movies will need splitting
[12:49] <jo-erlend> I'm preparing to start making screencasts. If I run a normal live session and then run the installer in fullscreen, will it look exactly like I had chosen the "Install Ubuntu" boot menu option?
[12:50] <lenios> what do you mean run a normal live session?
[12:50] <swoody> jo-erlend: I think it would, but have you considered running the 'install' in a VM on your current machine?
[12:50] <jo-erlend> lenios, ... "try Ubuntu without installing" or whatever the boot menu option is called.
[12:50] <jussi01> !info bangarang | [BG]ZloboMiR
[12:50] <swoody> jo-erlend: set it to full-screen, and it should look the same as if you booted the live-cd
[12:50] <lenios> oh, and then use the installer
[12:51] <jussi01> [BG]ZloboMiR: more info here: http://bangarangkde.wordpress.com/
[12:51] <jo-erlend> swoody, great. Thanks.
[12:51] <swoody> jo-erlend: :)
[12:52] <jo-erlend> swoody, I have considered running it in a vm, but I think the results will be better if I screencast a "real" install.
[12:52] <popey> jo-erlend: i usually screencast a vm for http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/
[12:53] <[BG]ZloboMiR> jussi01, thanks
[12:56] <[BG]ZloboMiR> jussi01, I already have one machine on xfce, it is cute
[12:56] <jo-erlend> popey, using vbox?
[12:57] <popey> yes
[12:59] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:59] <swoody> heya BluesKaj :)
[13:00] <[BG]ZloboMiR> Bangarang is unable to access the Nepomuk Semantic Desktop repository. Media library, rating and play count functions will be unavailable.
[13:00] <BluesKaj> hi swoody
[13:00] <swoody> BluesKaj: how's things going?
[13:00] <jo-erlend> what I think would have been cool, is if we could get an artist to create some nice vignettes using svg or something, so that it's editable for localization, then we could make a common set of screencasts in different languages.
[13:01] <BluesKaj> fine swoody , and you ?
[13:01] <jo-erlend> popey, you wouldn't happen to know anyone who could make that happen, would you? :)
[13:01] <swoody> BluesKaj: oh I can't complain, thank you :)
[13:03] <popey> jo-erlend: sorry, no
[13:04] <jo-erlend> popey, that would be cool... Perhaps a mail to a list could inspire someone.
[13:04] <popey> feel free :)
[13:05] <jo-erlend> :)
[13:07] <swoody> popey: have you had any complaints about the videos not playing right on screencasts.ubuntu.com?
[13:07] <popey> not yet
[13:07] <popey> comments welcome :)
[13:08] <swoody> popey: well now you have ;)
[13:08] <popey> more detail needed
[13:08] <swoody> popey: I'll have to try the others, but I only get the first 2-3 seconds to play, then it won't play no matter how much I let it buffer
[13:08] <swoody> running FF 3.6 w/ adobe plugin
[13:09] <swoody> just checked other flash sites - youtube, slacker.com - and they work fine
[13:09] <popey> are you watching flash or html5 viewer?
[13:10] <popey> screenshot would be nice
[13:11] <swoody> hmm.. may just be tricky... I finally got the ISO video to play, but still not the newest one
[13:12] <jo-erlend> popey, the screencasts aren't running well on screencasts.ubuntu.com...
[13:12] <popey> ok, lets take one example..
[13:12] <popey> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/2010/01/10/Ubuntu_Release_Schedule
[13:12] <jo-erlend> popey, in the presentation of the timeline for releases, it stopped at 1:23 and I couldn't get it to start over or resume.
[13:13] <popey> jo-erlend: html5 or flash?
[13:13] <jo-erlend> :)
[13:13] <jo-erlend> html5.
[13:14]  * popey edits some stuff
[13:14] <jo-erlend> popey, may I take that screencast and translate it to Norwegian?
[13:14] <popey> yup
[13:14] <popey> its all creative commons
[13:14] <popey> do what you like
[13:14] <popey> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/license
[13:14] <jo-erlend> grand.
[13:15] <popey> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/2010/01/10/Ubuntu_Release_Schedule  pls refresh that and see if it's better?
[13:15] <jo-erlend> popey, sorry... 1:28 is where it stops, and it seems to be consistent.
[13:15] <swoody> popey: http://imagebin.org/89526
[13:15]  * jo-erlend refreshes.
[13:15] <popey> its serving up a different ogv now
[13:15] <swoody> popey: http://imagebin.org/89527
[13:16] <popey> swoody: can you also try refreshing?
[13:16] <pace_t_zulu> hey y'all
[13:16] <pace_t_zulu> any word on beta 1?
[13:16] <soee_> if i may, no problems here on kubuntu 10.04 a3 :)
[13:16] <pace_t_zulu> i am unable to find it
[13:17] <popey> thanks soee_
[13:17] <swoody> popey: clearing cache as well now, refresh didn't help :/
[13:17] <popey> hmm
[13:17] <xfact> Do anybody has seen the actual plymouth boot animation or nobody yet (like me)?
[13:18] <swoody> xfact: I see it on shutdown, not on bootup
[13:18] <xfact> shwoody, You are lucky, I have not seen it anywhere
[13:18] <swoody> popey: still same for me :/
[13:19] <xfact> What is the real problem of plymouth?
[13:19] <xfact> xplash was much batter
[13:19] <BluesKaj> xfact, what is plymouth boot animation supposed to look like ? :)
[13:19] <Jaymac> pace_t_zulu, it has been delayed until later on today
[13:19] <popey> swoody / jo-erlend can you view it on blip.tv in flash and see if it fails there too?
[13:19] <swoody> popey: gives me busy/loading icon when I first try to play, and then just nothing after I pause and try to play again
[13:19] <pace_t_zulu> Jaymac: anywhere i can get info as to the reason for the delay?
[13:19] <popey> http://blip.tv/play/ge9BgbzUNgA
[13:20] <swoody> popey: works there :)
[13:21] <popey> well http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/2010/01/10/Ubuntu_Release_Schedule works fine for me here at work behind a nasty proxy
[13:21] <nigelb> popey: the audio is a bit too fast
[13:21] <popey> nigelb: define too fast?
[13:21] <nigelb> popey: i.e. runs ahead of corresponding video
[13:21] <nigelb> nothing technically wrong
[13:22] <Daviey> seems ok for me
[13:22] <nigelb> popey: for example, when you talk about the codename, video is still showing the date and year release part
[13:23] <jo-erlend> popey, the audio seems to skip past parts of the video.
[13:23] <Jaymac> pace_t_zulu, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[13:28] <jo-erlend> popey, do you know if that video will be easily edited to change the text?
[13:28] <popey> jo-erlend: i didnt make the video
[13:29] <popey> jo-erlend: it's my voice with a video that mads made
[13:29] <BluesKaj> bbl..
[13:29] <tuga3d> hi all
[13:30] <tuga3d> what are the main problems with lucid? is it more or less stable?
[13:30] <tuga3d> i wanted to install it.
[13:31] <arand_> Jaymac: You got any idea what made them puch it back, Plymouth issues?
[13:33] <freefall_> Is the beta out yet?
[13:33] <pace_t_zulu> Jaymac: ty
[13:33] <popey> freefall_: no
[13:33] <arand_> tuga3d: Reasonably, I wouldn't _rely_ on it for a system used for more than testing though. Might want to wait for the beta though, since it was delayed to iron out some last minute issues, which presumably was serious enough to warrant a delay.
[13:34] <freefall_> popey: Do you know when?
[13:34] <popey> should be today, but you never know, wait till the announcement
[13:34] <freefall_> OK
[13:34] <tuga3d> arand_, thanks for the info
[13:34] <nasso__> does anyone have an eta for beta 1?
[13:35] <popey> 13:34:29 < popey> should be today, but you never know, wait till the announcement
[13:35] <Jaymac> arand, not sure
[13:35] <arand_> What I'm curious is what those issues really where, since I've not heard anything more apart fromm that it was delayed
[13:35] <Jaymac> nasso__, probably some time today
[13:37] <arand_> nasso__: Ubuntu releases never have an eta, it's "sometime today, in some arbitrary timezone" ;)
[13:37] <jo-erlend> is beta1 out yet?
[13:37] <tuga3d> this reminds me o shrek :)
[13:38] <Pici> The topic will be updated when its out.
[13:38] <tgpraveen12> jo-erlend: no
[13:38] <tgpraveen12> ^^
[13:38] <jo-erlend> Pici, ah. Great. Thanks.
[13:38] <[BG]ZloboMiR> Guest
[13:41] <jazzdog> hi. will this release be lts?
[13:41] <jo-erlend> yes.
[13:41] <jazzdog> thx
[13:41] <jo-erlend> jazzdog, releases in april of even-numbered years are LTS-releases. That's every fourth release.
[13:42] <jazzdog> i see it will be released on apr29
[13:42] <jazzdog> i'm waiting to upgrade my 8.04lts :)
[13:42] <jo-erlend> :)
[13:43] <BUGabundo_remote> jo-erlend: actually there are NO hard rule for LTS
[13:43] <BUGabundo_remote> jazzdog: better start testing NOW while u can
[13:43] <jo-erlend> BUGabundo_remote, really? When did that change?
[13:43] <BUGabundo_remote> waiting for release, and it will be too late to fix anything
[13:43] <BUGabundo_remote> jo-erlend: never changed
[13:43] <BUGabundo_remote> there was never a set date for LTS
[13:44] <BUGabundo_remote> each time Mark and release team decide if it is gonna be or not a LTS
[13:44] <BUGabundo_remote> the most recent blog post from Mark, says that 2 years is a good window
[13:44] <jo-erlend> ...
[13:44] <BUGabundo_remote> better then 1,5 or 2,5 and not as old as 3y
[13:45] <BUGabundo_remote> *but* there was, and AFAIK isn't yet, any enforcement rule
[13:46] <NoReflex> rye: your suggestion with noveau (nouveau.modeset=0) worked like a charm; thanks a lot - I'm writing this messages from Lynx:)
[13:46] <rye> NoReflex, well, this is a hack
[13:46] <BUGabundo_remote> cool NoReflex
[13:47] <rye> just tried to boot latest iso - does not want to boot with 2 displays attached, but no display corruption
[13:48] <rye> well, it wants but it can't switch to X
[13:48] <NoReflex> rye: I plan to use NVIDIA's proprietary driver... but I guess I need to leave nouveau.modeset=o in the kernel boot line, right?
[13:49] <rye> NoReflex, if nvidia proprietary drivers are installed, then there will be some set of rules that will prevent kernel from loading nouveau driver
[13:50] <NoReflex> will try with and without the nouveau "hack"... but first I got to figure out how to install nvidia's driver. aptitude show nvidia-glx says it's not a real package. should I go with the binary from nvidia's website?
[13:51] <yofel> NoReflex: install it from jockey
[13:51] <yofel> NoReflex: and DO NOT USE the nvidia site binary
[13:52] <Milos_SD> yofel, why not use nvidia site binary?
[13:52] <yofel> NoReflex: also the new package name is nvidia-current, but just installing the package will neither activate it nor disable nouveau. Jockey takes care of that
[13:52] <arand_> I find that plymouth drops to textmode whe running nvidia, whereas it works fine with noveau, odd..
[13:52] <yofel> Milos_SD: because it messes with the ubuntu configuration, is hard to remove and IIRC doesn't work with the alernatives system that the nvidia packages use in lucid
[13:53] <Milos_SD> I installed that site binary, and works ok ... I need to use that becouse of my custom kernel
[13:53] <rye> arand_, nvidia proprietary drivers do not support kernel modesetting for plymouth to work, you need to manually enable correct resolution via grub for that to work
[13:54] <rye> still , that would not be a seamless transition from plymouth to X - nvidia will try to reset resolution,,, well to the same one
[13:54] <Milos_SD> rye, but when you do that, you don't have TTY's anymore :(
[13:54] <Milos_SD> I tried that, and ended without tty's
[13:55] <NoReflex> yofel: thx - installing now
[13:55] <rye> Milos_SD, hm, not happened to me - missing framebuffer device modules?
[13:55] <Milos_SD> rye, I don't know... what modules?
[13:56] <rye> well, i am now using nouveau but missing support for separate screens for 2 separate displays makes hard for me to use my dualscreen setup, i don't need one big display, I need 2 display with 3 workspaces each
[13:56] <rye> Milos_SD, something like this happened in jaunty.. or intrepid.. not promising that I would be able to find this bug report though :)
[13:57] <Milos_SD> rye, I did this: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/03/how-to-get-plymouth-working-with-nvidia.html#disqus_thread
[13:57] <arand_> What makes me the saddest puppy is that the x-crack 3D support nouveau doesn't work for me..
[13:57] <Milos_SD> but insted of puting 1024x768, I put: 1280x1024x32
[13:57] <rye> but I want to make sure that lucid release will start up on my machine with both display connected, after that I will return to nvidia-proprietary drivers
[13:59] <rye> Milos_SD, hm, I used 1280x800@32 don't know whether @/- makes a difference
[13:59] <Milos_SD> rye, and you have TTY's?
[14:00] <rye> Milos_SD, I had, definitely
[14:00] <jazzdog> i want to stick with nvidia proprietary drivers when i will change to lucid. i am an advanced user. can i read somewhere about what issues to look out for?
[14:00] <Milos_SD> rye, I'll try "@" :)
[14:00] <pace_t_zulu> i've found a bug in the lucid installer
[14:02] <arand_> pace_t_zulu: See if it's reported, otherwise "ubuntu-bug ubiquity"
[14:03] <rye> Milos_SD, vesafb and fbcon, i believe
[14:04] <rye> Milos_SD, do you have them loaded?
[14:04] <pace_t_zulu> arand_: it's not the ubiquity bug
[14:05] <rye> Milos_SD, bug #129910
[14:05] <rye> hardy :)
[14:05] <pace_t_zulu> arand_: html markup is showing up where it shouldn't
[14:06] <rye> Milos_SD, I remember upgrading my machine, getting to X very fast and then I found out that all ttys are empty. That was a little bit scary.
[14:07] <pace_t_zulu> arand_: http://i44.tinypic.com/29ok1mp.png
[14:07] <arand_> pace_t_zulu: Well, or whatever project is more appropriate, if you don't know, reporting on ubiquity might be a good start stil..
[14:08] <pace_t_zulu> arand_: i have an annotated screenshot
[14:08] <pace_t_zulu> arand_: http://i44.tinypic.com/29ok1mp.png
[14:11] <Milos_SD> rye, I don't have that modules at all :(
[14:11] <rye> Milos_SD, since vesafb works you'll just need fbcon to the initrd list and you are good
[14:12] <Milos_SD> rye, I will need to recompile my kernel today because of some NFS issue I have after upgrade, and I'll see to enable vesafb and fbcon :)
[14:21] <KB1JWQ> Good morning folks.
[14:22] <yofel> hey KB1JWQ
[14:26] <thefish> im getting a grub installation error during installation with lvm, seems similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/lucid/+bug/485604 - anyone have any workarounds?
[14:27] <thefish> ^ i tried running parted /dev/sda set 2 bios_grub on and got an invalid flag error (from installer shell)
[14:31] <amikrop> Hello, I get access denied here: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[14:31] <amikrop> Is that normal?
[14:31] <syk> seeing it isnt released yet
[14:31] <syk> yes
[14:31] <TheGrammarFreak_> When is it released?
[14:31] <syk> maybe later today
[14:31] <TheGrammarFreak_> What's the hold up?
[14:32] <syk> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/000695.html
[14:33] <TheGrammarFreak_> Ah
[14:38] <KB1JWQ> If I'm asking in the wrong place, please slap me down, but why does the new Ubuntu default to Empathy as an IM client?  Historically I've used pidgin, not sure which to go with at this point.
[14:39] <om26er> should I inform the ops if I get an advertisory message?
[14:39] <TheGrammarFreak_> Isn't it becasue GNOME defaulted to that?
[14:39] <Drakeson> I occasionally get a border around the nautilus that draws the desktop. is that to be expected?
[14:40] <holstein> Drakeson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/507263
[14:41] <KB1JWQ> om26er: Do tell.
[14:42] <marenostrum> KB1JWQ: Why "not sure which to go"? Use what you prefer. Info here maybe useful: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmpathyVsPidginUsability
[14:43] <KB1JWQ> marenostrum: Thanks.  That's exactly what I was attempting to articulate.  Need coffee. :-/
[14:43] <om26er> KB1JWQ, done and he got kicked great
[14:44] <KB1JWQ> om26er: Who's the nick?
[14:44] <Drakeson> holstein: thanks
[14:44] <KB1JWQ> om26er: I can arrange for a bit more than a kick, is why I ask. :-)
[14:44] <om26er> KB1JWQ, Ce_Jkt_Mau in #ubuntu
[14:44] <MarcoPau> althou I only have xserver-xorg-video-radeon installed, xorg runs vesa drivers. what am I supposed to do?
[14:46] <KB1JWQ> And gone.
[14:47] <FunnyLookinHat> Beta 1 running a bit late ?
[14:47] <om26er> here when the time is 00:00 most releases come that time
[14:48] <om26er> so 4hours
[14:48] <swoody> FunnyLookinHat: nope, it was already released, we just didn't want to tell you ;)
[14:48] <FunnyLookinHat> swoody: haha
[14:48] <TheGrammarFreak_> Lol
[14:48] <FunnyLookinHat> Well I thought the 18th was release, not 19th... that's why I was confused...  :)
[14:48] <swoody> more bandwidth for us :D
[14:48] <Pici> FunnyLookinHat: See /topic
[14:48] <FunnyLookinHat> HAH
[14:48] <swoody> see /topic
[14:48] <FunnyLookinHat> Oh lol
[14:49] <KB1JWQ> Should I expect a bunch of updates in apt-get once the beta releases?
[14:49] <swoody> d'oh, Pici and your fast keyboard :P
[14:49] <FunnyLookinHat> My IRC client cut it off at "Alpha 3 released:"
[14:49] <TheGrammarFreak_> Same
[14:49] <swoody> "Alpha  3 released: www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/Alpha3 | Beta 1 Delayed until 2010-03-19
[14:49] <Pici> Hows that?
[14:50] <jpds> Pici: Should say: "Beta 1 delayed until today".
[14:50] <KB1JWQ> Pici: Ooh, and what color should we paint the bike shed? :-D
[14:50] <Pici> KB1JWQ: :P
[14:51] <robin0800> KB1JWQ: purple
[14:52] <KB1JWQ> robin0800: Which answers my empathy vs pidgin question nicely.  Thanks!
[14:52] <swoody> robin0800: purple is for the Canoe rack, RED is for the bike shed... *sigh*
[14:56] <Stargaze> hi, I just installed Lucid in Virtual Box and the first (slight) inconvenience is: numerical pad cannot be used
[14:59] <trism> Stargaze: check out http://ubuntu-ky.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=803455 a couple posts down (something about ctrl shift numlock and mouse keys)
[15:00] <trism> Stargaze: though it is a really old post, so perhaps not related to lucid
[15:01] <freefall_> How much time until Beta 1 release ?
[15:01] <janjokela> Hi, does anyone know of a way to boot without plymouth only by passing parameters in the grub selection?
[15:02] <xzcvczx> freefall_: |<------------------->| that long
[15:02] <freefall_> still?
[15:03] <zniavre> :o)
[15:03] <xzcvczx> freefall_: yes
[15:03] <swoody> freefall_: every time you ask an hour is added >:|
[15:03] <swoody> ... and a fairy looses its wings :(
[15:03] <swoody> loses*
[15:04] <freefall_> Shit
[15:04] <swoody> swearing adds two hrs :/
[15:04] <timc> lol
[15:04] <freefall_> I am so sorry
[15:04] <swoody> now we all have to wait 3 more hours... thanks a bunch
[15:04] <xzcvczx> apologising adds 24 hours
[15:05] <freefall_> Now what?
[15:05] <timc> hmm.. appears to be available from softpedia
[15:05] <timc> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Linux-Distributions/Ubuntu-Lucid-Lynx-53009.shtml
[15:06] <freefall_> timc: You cant trust softpedia!
[15:06] <TheGrammarFreak_> Lol
[15:06] <timc> thought it was a bit weird
[15:06] <swoody> probably alpha, the 'screenshots' aren't beta for sure
[15:07] <MarcoPau> I have both xserver-xorg-video-ati and radeon installed but Xorg.0.log says no ati module found, thou /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/ati_drv.so is there
[15:07] <TheGrammarFreak_> Will the beta be much more stable than the alpha?
[15:07] <Pici> If you've been running the beta and keeping up with updates, then you're already running the beta.
[15:09] <notlistening> Hi I am running Lucid and do not seem to be getting any update and the system is creaking along is this what everyone else it experiencing?
[15:11] <TheGrammarFreak_> When will jre show up on lucid?
[15:11] <TheGrammarFreak_> Or has it, and I'm just missing something?
[15:13] <espen77> TheGrammarFreak_: jre as in java runtime?
[15:13] <TheGrammarFreak_> Ye
[15:13] <TheGrammarFreak_> I didn't find it
[15:14] <duffydack> openjre is there.. works.
[15:14] <TheGrammarFreak_> And it wasn't installed with kubuntu-restricted-extras. Unless that's old now
[15:14] <TheGrammarFreak_> I need the one by sun
[15:14] <duffydack> its also installed part of ubuntu-restricted-extras
[15:14] <syk> http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/
[15:14] <duffydack> sun-java is there... i just checked
[15:15] <TheGrammarFreak_> Does kubuntu-restriced-extras differ in any way to ubuntu-restricted-extras?
[15:15] <duffydack> I think its in the partner repo
[15:15] <espen77> TheGrammarFreak_: default might be set to openjava if u have both
[15:16] <TheGrammarFreak_> Eh?
[15:16] <syk> when will the topic be updated?
[15:17] <Stargaze> what's the package name for control center again?
[15:17] <Pici> syk: When I see an announcement from the release manager.
[15:17] <syk> i see
[15:17] <espen77> TheGrammarFreak_: sudo update-java-alternatives -l
[15:18] <Okidesu> is there any snd-aloop package for Lucid ?
[15:19] <Okidesu> ?
[15:23] <espen77> now working: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[15:24] <xzcvczx> espen77: thanks
[15:25] <notlistening> anyone good with make files here?
[15:25] <duffydack> not authorized with this tracker?  (beta1 torrent)
[15:27] <BUGabundo_remote> humm
[15:27] <freefall_> Does this mean that beta 1 is out?
[15:27] <BUGabundo_remote> where are our OPs?
[15:27] <NoReflex> should I install mplayer from the Lynx repo or from launchpad? lynx repo says version 1.0~rc3+svn20090426-1ubuntu15 , https://launchpad.net/~rvm/+archive/mplayer says 1.0~rc3+svn20090904-0karmic5. I want to use mplayer with vdpau...
[15:27] <BUGabundo_remote> Pici: ping
[15:27] <Pici> BUGabundo_remote: yes?
[15:27] <BUGabundo_remote> topic
[15:27] <BUGabundo_remote> beta1 is out
[15:27] <BUGabundo_remote> although not all mirrors are still in sync
[15:28]  * BUGabundo_remote waits for email, for it to be official
[15:28] <Pici> BUGabundo_remote: I see no announcement.
[15:28] <rww> "It's out when slangasek says it's out" is the new "It's not out" ;P
[15:29] <BUGabundo_remote> rww: :p
[15:29] <BUGabundo_remote> Pici: me neither
[15:29] <BUGabundo_remote> but the page is there
[15:29] <Pici> BUGabundo_remote: That doesn't mean that the images are final.
[15:29] <xzcvczx> and the iso link works
[15:30] <Pici> The last I saw was that there was still testing being done.
[15:30] <timc> torrent.ubuntu.com has it
[15:30] <timc> that count?
[15:30] <BUGabundo_remote> timc: naaaa
[15:30] <BUGabundo_remote> only an email from slangasek
[15:30] <BUGabundo_remote> before that, we are on Fight Club rules
[15:30] <Pici> Until I see an email to ubuntu-devel-announce or a message from him elsewhere, its not out.
[15:31]  * BUGabundo_remote hits refresh a few more times... slow mail
[15:31] <freefall_> HA, there was not any delay because i asked!
[15:31] <nasso__> ooh. beta1 released. sweet :) installfest tonight!
[15:31]  * BUGabundo_remote doh
[15:31] <Pici> BUGabundo_remote: It'll show up here before it gets to your mailbox; https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-March/date.html
[15:31] <espen77> BUGabundo_remote: The first rule about fightclub...
[15:31] <BUGabundo_remote> do ppl *really* go crazy for a milestone?
[15:31] <Stargaze> FYI: dropbox/ubuntu one is very convenient for synchronizing your host & client systems :)
[15:31] <BUGabundo_remote> Stargaze: and?????
[15:32] <Stargaze> BUGabundo_remote, i was just sharing my enthousiasm :)
[15:32] <nasso__> Pici, http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/ubuntu-10.04-beta1-desktop-amd64.iso
[15:32] <rww> BUGabundo_remote: People go crazy for everything :)
[15:32] <trism> kind of hope this really isn't beta 1 (for desktop i386 anyway) since it is just the daily from yesterday that locks up on boot for me with a nvidia card
[15:33] <Pici> nasso__: So?
[15:33] <nasso__> Pici, i call that out. even if they havnt sent an email ut yet
[15:34] <jpds> nasso__: Please use a mirror.
[15:35] <BUGabundo_remote> pff
[15:35] <BUGabundo_remote> lets see how many SMART ppl did what I told them to
[15:35] <BUGabundo_remote> download daily and not zsync
[15:36] <nasso__> jpds, mirror doesnt seem to be synced yet
[15:36] <jpds> nasso__: They are.
[15:36] <nasso__> jpds, ok. not linked then. will take a closer look
[15:37] <TheGrammarFreak> I can't remove one of my desktop activities on KDE. Any ideas?
[15:38] <AnAnt> Beta released yet
[15:38] <TheGrammarFreak> AnAnt: ye
[15:38] <AnAnt> URL ?
[15:38] <Stargaze> AnAnt, an easy way to test Lucid, is by using 'Testrive'
[15:39] <DanaG> (gnome-settings-daemon:4986): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_propagate_error: assertion `src != NULL' failed
[15:39] <Stargaze> *TestDrive
[15:39] <DanaG> argh, when I log in, gnome-settings-daemon isn't running!
[15:39] <TheGrammarFreak> http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/
[15:39] <AnAnt> Stargaze: what's that ?
[15:40] <Stargaze> AnAnt, it's app you can install and then use to download Lucid in a virtual machine, very easy to use
[15:40] <czr> hmm. if they'd waited for 5 more minutes before uploading the isos, the timestamps would've been much better
[15:40] <AnAnt> Stargaze: oh, I just get the desktop ISO & run it in virtualbox
[15:41] <jpds> BUGabundo_remote: Not really, smarter is: http://people.canonical.com/~jpds/mirrors/ [big images].
[15:41] <Stargaze> AnAnt, when you select Lucid, it starts downloading and opens the iso in a virtual machine (qemu, virtual box etc)
[15:41] <TheGrammarFreak> Virtual machines, lol. I've been running alpha3 for weeks now
[15:42] <Stargaze> AnAnt, check https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[15:43] <DrHalan> is glibmmconfig.h missing in libglibmm-dev?
[15:44] <AnAnt> TheGrammarFreak: thanks
[15:44] <MarcoPau> xorg is not loading ati module thou ati_drv.so is there, thus I'm trying to configure it with xorg.conf but it won't read it and it's still using the built in configuration file. do you guys have any hint?
[15:46] <nasso__> MarcoPau, #
[15:46] <nasso__> #
[15:46] <nasso__> The fglrx binary driver for ATI video chipsets does not yet support the X server in Lucid. As a workaround, users should use the open source -ati driver instead. (494699)
[15:47] <MarcoPau> nasso__: that's what I'm trying to use
[15:47] <nasso__> MarcoPau, is that helpful. was in the releasenotes of beta 1
[15:47] <MarcoPau> xserver-xorg-video-ati and radeon. those are open source drivers
[15:47] <nasso__> ok
[15:48] <MarcoPau> xorg won't find ati_drv.so, which is there, nor it will read my xorg.conf, with which I was trying to force it to use radeon
[15:50] <KB1JWQ> Hmm, keyserver.ubuntu.com keeps erroring out.
[15:51] <rww> KB1JWQ: Yeah, it does that rather often.
[15:51] <Pici> KB1JWQ: you can use http://pgp.mit.edu/ if its unresponsive.
[15:51] <Desciero> I have ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 and cannot get my card working with the open source drivers as of alpha 3
[15:51] <technoviking> will be glad when the beta freeze is over, jones for some updates:)
[15:51] <Desciero> bug #494699
[15:52] <Desciero> that workaround hasn't worked for me as of yet
[15:52] <Desciero> don't see a fix in beta 1 either
[15:52] <Desciero> :-/
[15:58] <nasso__> mirrors are still not updates. too bad :(
[15:59] <Ian_Corne> http://ubuntu.rave.org/
[15:59] <Ian_Corne> This one is
[15:59] <Ian_Corne> http://nl.releases.ubuntu.com/ too
[16:00] <nasso__> okay. none in sweden...
[16:01] <DrHalan> i can't find the glibconfig.h anywhere. but libglib-dev is installed...
[16:01] <nasso__> oh. i had other downloads running. downloading 700kb/sek from main now..
[16:03] <_jst> what do i need for intel x64? amd64 iso ??
[16:03] <rww> _jst: Which processor do you have?
[16:03] <Ian_Corne> yes
[16:03] <_jst> ok thanks
[16:03] <Ian_Corne> rww: he said he had intel x64
[16:04] <FunnyLookinHat> whaoh wait - http://ubuntu.rave.org/ has 10.04 Beta 1 images - it's realeased now?
[16:05] <Jaymac> yeah
[16:05] <callaghan> yes: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[16:06] <bjwebb> can someone help me with?
[16:06] <bjwebb> An unresolvable problem occurred while calculating the upgrade:
[16:06] <bjwebb> Trying to install blacklisted version 'openoffice.org-filter-binfilter_1:3.2.0~rc4-1ubuntu1'
[16:06] <DrHalan> mh
[16:07] <DrHalan> bjwebb: have you tried removing oOo before upgradding?
[16:07] <bjwebb> no, i'll try that
[16:07] <johndarc> bjwebb: have you tried dist-upgrade?
[16:08] <bjwebb> johndarc: hmmm, this is from karmic to lucid, i would've thought update-manager would do something like dist-upgrade
[16:08] <johndarc> that's what I would do, apt-get upgrade, then apt-get dist-upgrade, I am not entirely sure if it would break things, though
[16:08] <rye> bjwebb, hm... I had to remove openoffice for the upgrade to proceed...
[16:09] <rye> bjwebb, but I was not able to replicate that afterwards so I decided that's my local modifications
[16:09] <rye> reproduce
[16:09] <bjwebb> hmmmm
[16:09] <bjwebb> seems its not unique though
[16:09] <bjwebb> has it been reported as a bug?
[16:12] <mvo> bjwebb: this is protection really, this error
[16:12] <mvo> it means that 'openoffice.org-filter-binfilter_1:3.2.0~rc4-1ubuntu1' will break during the upgrade and that it refuses to upgrade therefore
[16:12] <bjwebb> ah
[16:12] <mvo> bjwebb: either remove this package before the upgrade or wait a bit
[16:12] <mvo> there will be a fix sooonish, but its not in the archive yet
[16:12] <bjwebb> okay
[16:13] <mvo> removing is actually safe and re-adding. it just causes trouble during the upgrade
[16:15] <DrHalan> nobody knows wher to get glibconfig.h?
[16:15] <Okidesu> is the beta out yet :)
[16:16] <trism> DrHalan: libglib2.0-dev
[16:16] <DrHalan> trism: i have this package installed
[16:16] <DrHalan> in contains glib.h but not glibconfig.h
[16:18] <Pici> DrHalan: libglib2.0-dev: /usr/lib/glib-2.0/include/glibconfig.h
[16:20] <robin0800> beta1 is out
[16:20] <jml> citation needed
[16:22] <jpds> Okidesu: No.
[16:23] <jo-erlend> does anyone know if the decision of moving the titlebar buttons have been made final, or if the question is still open, as Mark Shuttleworth suggested recently?
[16:24] <jo-erlend> I need to start working on my screencasts soon, and I don't want to have to repeat the work if it's changed. I don't want the screencasts to look different from the real product either.
[16:24] <DrHalan> Pici: thanks now i've found them. Just kinda confused because this adds a lot of inclue directories to my project
[16:25] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, http://www.ubuntu-user.com/Online/News/Ubuntu-10.04-Button-Rearrangement-Becomes-Hot-Topic
[16:32] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: it's final for 10.04
[16:33] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, reference?
[16:34] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: we are past interface freeze
[16:34] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, Mark Shuttleworth said only a few days ago, that they might go both ways.
[16:34] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, it was after that he said they might go both ways.
[16:36] <swoody> I don't see why they don't just implement an option in the appearance section to make it easy to modify the titlebar layout - like you have in KDE :/
[16:36] <jo-erlend> I haven't been able to find out what the benefit of moving the buttons are in the first place.
[16:36] <swoody> seems simple enough, and gives everyone the option to *easily* change it to however they like it
[16:37] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=133221
[16:37] <swoody> jo-erlend: my theory - Mac-buntu ;)
[16:37] <BoondoKlife> swoody: There is a very easy way to do it with tweak ubuntu. Lust a button click
[16:37] <jo-erlend> but I've had to reschedule alot of my plans because of this... It's annoying.
[16:37] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: "Moving everything to the left opens up the space on the right nicely, and I would like to experiment in 10.10 with some innovative options there. It's much easier to do that if we make this change now."
[16:37] <Ian_Corne> jo-erlend: they have ideas for the space on the right now
[16:38] <DanaG> There IS no benefit to moving the buttons... all it does is piss people off.
[16:38] <jo-erlend> oh, so there will be even more changes before release?
[16:38] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: no - in 10.10
[16:38] <swoody> jo-erlend: they're aiming for those changes for 10.10
[16:38] <swoody> so Lucid +1
[16:38] <jo-erlend> why would the change it now if the space isn't needed until the next cycle anyway?
[16:39] <koltroll> What are you discussing?
[16:39] <Linux000> jo-erland: I would think it would be to get people used to the change without changing to much.
[16:39] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: To get people used to it I would assume.
[16:39] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, probably because 1.04 is an LTS
[16:39] <jo-erlend> we're not discussing anything. I'm just wondering when I can start working.
[16:39] <Stargaze> 1 = 10
[16:40] <jo-erlend> Stargaze, uh? What does that have to do with interface changes in the next version of ubuntu?
[16:40] <claptrap> Mmk, so I'm trying to upgrade to Lucid with "update-manager -d" and it's throwing up this error: http://pastebin.com/z3CPDLg6
[16:40] <koltroll> jo-erlend, surely you are discussing something.
[16:41] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, because it is an LTS, it will be supported longer and changes are more permanent
[16:41] <swoody> claptrap: this was just brought up in here :)
[16:41] <swoody> claptrap: try removing the package, upgrade, then reinstall it
[16:41] <jo-erlend> I took two weeks vacation from work to work on marketing materials, screencasts, etc... Completely wasted because someone might want to try to experiment with something obscure in a future version of Ubuntu, which might use a completely different shell... Annoying.
[16:41] <Dr_Willis> Of course 6 mo from now.. we may be using gnome3 :) (doubtfull)
[16:41] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: if you are asking if there won't be *any* changes to the interface after today than no one can answer that but that's unlikely.
[16:41] <swoody> claptrap: or you can wait for a fix, I hear there's supposed to be one fairly soon
[16:41] <Stargaze> idd, jo-erlend, the ubuntu community is displeased, too
[16:41] <claptrap> swoody: So I'd need to remove the "blacklisted" package it has listed thar?
[16:42] <swoody> claptrap: yessir :)
[16:42] <mvo> claptrap: its a safesty feature
[16:42] <jo-erlend> I've been tempted to jump off the wagon because of this. The incredible lack of respect for the community is .... shocking.
[16:42] <Linux000> koltroll: The buttons in 10.04, close, minimize, etc...
[16:42] <mvo> (oh, I see that this was explained already)
[16:42] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: there were no changes other than cosmetical made after 4th so I see no problem - the user interface freeze has been known for a long time.
[16:42] <koltroll> Linux000, oh ok
[16:42] <claptrap> swoody: Awesome. Also, curiosity... the text in that window says that's an Alpha version. Am I getting the beta, or... ?
[16:42] <Stargaze> idd jo-erlend that's what everybody says
[16:43] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, right, but Mark Shuttleworth confirmed that nothing was confirmed regarding the interface changes.
[16:43] <swoody> claptrap: hmmm... I'm not really sure tbh :/
[16:43] <Stargaze> Shuttleworth is the 'benevolent dictator for life' :)
[16:43] <jo-erlend> right. Let the dictator do all the work then.
[16:44] <rye> what's wrong with max/min/close buttons on the left? It took me 10 minutes to switch and I find it extremely nice
[16:44] <jo-erlend> I don't mind the change itself. I mind wasting weeks waiting for someone to tell me if my work will be made useless because the schedule isn't something we worry about.
[16:44] <claptrap> swoody: qq
[16:44] <cwillu_at_work> hey, did we lose the f6 -> urlbar shortcut in firefox recently?
[16:44] <jo-erlend> rye, then you're probably one of those people who have to aim at the buttons. I use them blindly because I've had them there for about twenty years.
[16:44] <mvo> claptrap: the text is not updated just yet (known bug :/)
[16:45] <Stargaze> jo-erlend, Shuttleworth said: "This is not a democracy. Good feedback, good data, are welcome. But we are not voting on design decisions."
[16:45] <claptrap> mvo: But it IS the beta, then? ;D
[16:45] <mvo> yes
[16:45] <jo-erlend> rye, how many days did it take you to switch from qwerty to dvorak?
[16:45] <mvo> claptrap: and soon the text should be fixed too :)
[16:45] <claptrap> mvo: Cool deal. :3
[16:46] <rye> jo-erlend, well, I am still using qwerty keyboard
[16:46] <claptrap> Beta, do want. Alpha of a Linux install... not so much~
[16:46] <mvo> :)
[16:46] <Stargaze> maybe shuttleworth wants ubuntu to look more like mac
[16:46] <Dr_Willis> install alpha, update/upgrade.. you basically have the beta i belive
[16:46] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: what does dvorak have to do with button order? that's the weirdest argument I've heard in the last few days
[16:46] <Dr_Willis> Stargaze:  i belive he said that he did not make the decision on that.
[16:46] <cwillu_at_work> rye, that you don't mind it after ten minutes isn't proof that it isn't disruptive for others
[16:46] <jo-erlend> rye, why don't you just change? Interface changes isn't important, right? You'll simply adjust to it. It's been proven that dvorak is much better than qwerty.
[16:47] <claptrap> I wanted to learn dvorak, but I can't help feeling that it would be essentially useless. You'll be great on your keyboard... and shitty ANYWHERE ELSE.
[16:47] <Stargaze> Dr_Willis, whoever decided it, then
[16:47] <Dr_Willis> I seem to always go back to  bluecurve theme anywhere
[16:47] <cwillu_at_work> jo-erlend, bad example, because the studies are in dispute
[16:47] <rye> jo-erlend, if they come up with a keyboard layout for laptops that has the dvorak layout I will be happy to try that. The buttons in the title bar behave the way they tell you they do, not as qwerty keyboard with dvorak layout
[16:47] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, well, changing to dvorak is a _useful_ interface change, which might require some time getting used to, but then makes your computing experience better. Changing the buttons didn't improve anything at all, but still requires some time getting used to. I still haven't been able to.
[16:47] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: you are actually coming close to being a troll using arguments like that and this discussion is heading towards yet another flamewar so I'm done
[16:48] <Linux000> What is the command to get the beta? or is it not out yet
[16:48] <Dr_Willis> kklimonda:  yep. I see a lot of this  happening in the upcomming weeks
[16:48] <DanaG> my gripe isn't "on the left", it's "max min close".
[16:48] <Dr_Willis> Linux000:  its not ot yet that i know of..
[16:48] <DanaG> That order breaks EVERYONE's muscle memory.
[16:48] <DanaG> Windows does min,max,close on right.
[16:48] <Stargaze> Linux000, check https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[16:48] <DanaG> Mac does close, min, "make bigger" on left.
[16:48] <cwillu_at_work> Linux000, there's no special command, it's just lucid, fully up to date on the day the beta is tagged, or a particular iso download if you want a fresh install
[16:48] <claptrap> I still wanna see a rationalization for that change. A real one.
[16:48] <DanaG> Ubuntu?  fail.
[16:48] <Linux000> Dr_Willis: Awwww, I thought it came out this morning
[16:48] <DanaG> "min,max,close" on left.
[16:49] <Dr_Willis> Linux000:  some time today i hear.
[16:49] <claptrap> The beta is out.
[16:49] <claptrap> Release was already posted on webupd8.
[16:49] <KB1JWQ> DanaG: I'm switching to Ubuntu from Mac OS, and it breaks mine too.
[16:49] <rye> Ctrl+D for terminal, Ctrl+W for everything else
[16:49] <Dr_Willis> I just update/upgraded from yesterday and dident even say anything
[16:49] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, right. I didn't want to argue about it. I just wanted to know if I should bother working on this at all, but nobody seems to know and I haven't received any replies to my request for a deadline on the u-d ml.
[16:49] <Dr_Willis> servers must of all been up to date yesterday then
[16:49] <rye> and mouse pointing for everything that does not want to get closed by this
[16:49] <BUGabundo_remote> jpds: sure, geo load is nice, but where is Portugal? we got 6gb here to offer
[16:50] <Linux000> Claptrap: I thought so, its on http://www.ubuntu.com
[16:50] <DanaG> er, gotta go now.
[16:50] <jpds> BUGabundo_remote: They didn't reply to me.
[16:50] <Linux000> What is the program for the bootslpash? Plymouth, right?
[16:50] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: well - as far as *we* know nothing is going to change now. we all work with this assumption.
[16:51] <rye> Linux000, yes, plymouth ... https://pastebin.canonical.com/29432/
[16:51] <rye> oops
[16:51] <claptrap> Linux000: :)
[16:51] <rye> Linux000, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Plymouth
[16:51] <Linux000> thanks, it doesn't want to load on my laptop
[16:51] <Drop_tables> Roughly what time UTC did beta come out?
[16:52] <rye> Linux000, nvidia?
[16:52] <jo-erlend> Drop_tables, it hasn't?
[16:52] <claptrap> Drop_tables: I got the webupd8 post... an hour ago?
[16:52] <Linux000> rye: Intel Integrated, I hate it, compiz blacklisted it.
[16:52] <claptrap> jo-erlend: Yes, it has.
[16:52] <jo-erlend> heh, nice. I was told that the topic here would be changed when the beta was out.
[16:52] <avar> I'm trying to upgrade to 10.04 and I'm getting this error: http://gist.github.com/337802 when I run do-release-upgrade -d
[16:52] <rye> Linux000, o_O
[16:53] <BUGabundo_remote> jpds: really?? do you have a direct contact?
[16:53] <rye> Linux000, you definitely need to add your experience to Plymouth testing
[16:53] <BUGabundo_remote> I'm chating with FEUP server admin
[16:53] <Linux000> Drop_Tables: If claptrap is right it was 17:54
[16:53] <Linux000> rye: Will do
[16:53] <claptrap> I dunno if that's exactly when it was, but that's when webupd8 posted about it, soooo.
[16:54] <jpds> BUGabundo_remote: I emailed the guys who run releases.ubuntumirror.dei.uc.pt.
[16:57] <markl_> ok somehow my maximize/minimize/close buttons moved to the left side of my window borders - any idea how to move them back to the right side?
[16:58] <Dr_Willis> FAQ #1 :) i bet
[16:58] <Dr_Willis> markl_:  one way - use 'ubuntu-tweak' tool.
[16:58] <ZykoticK9> markl_, http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/how-i-do/move-buttons-to-right-side
[16:58] <Dr_Willis> theres other ways also.
[16:58] <markl_> is this the new default?  how did this happen in the first place?
[16:58] <Dr_Willis> I made a Alias for the answer.. but cant rember what i called it now on this irc client
[16:59] <Dr_Willis> markl_:  it may or may not be the new default
[16:59] <ZykoticK9> markl_, yes it's the new black ;)
[16:59] <Stargaze> FYI: Beta is available for download => http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[16:59] <markl_> ok if it's the new default i'll leave it
[16:59] <markl_> also, will parted and udisks ever get updated?
[16:59] <markl_> or will they be kept back forever
[16:59] <Dr_Willis> I noticed they dident get updated on one machine.. but did on a 2nd box i had.
[17:00] <markl_> guess that's what i get for starting with alpha 2 :)
[17:00] <DrHalan> markl_: i think you gotta remove libparted. at least thats what i did. there is a new package libparted0 or so
[17:00] <ZykoticK9> markl_, i'm actually not seeing them in Update Manager in beta1
[17:00] <Linux000> To make sure I'm right, plymouth replaced usplash, right? The image right after grub(that used to have a loading bar)
[17:00] <yofel> markl_: update-manager won't update them afaik, use synaptic instead and select both manually for installation, packages need to be removed to update them
[17:00] <ZykoticK9> Linux000, yup
[17:01] <Linux000> ZykoticK9: Thanks
[17:01] <markl_> ok i just did this and it fixed it: sudo apt-get install libparted0
[17:01] <markl_> ty!
[17:01] <yofel> markl_: like DrHalan said, replace libparted -> libparted0 and also remove devicekit-disks for udisks
[17:01] <markl_> this channel is full of usefulness today
[17:02] <DrHalan> markl_: i see this as a "thank you". youre welcome
[17:02] <kklimonda> yofel: shouldn't it be done by the update manager?
[17:03] <yofel> kklimonda: no idea, haven't used u-m in a while, I only notice quite a lot complaining about this here...
[17:03] <markl_> DrHalan: indeed it is :)
[17:04] <yofel> udisks, has conflicts/replaces for devicekit-disks, so it *should* work without user action in u-m, not sure how parted is set up
[17:04] <BUGabundo_remote> Pici: official email is out /topic
[17:04] <BUGabundo_remote> jpds: AFAIK Coimbra has been down for 2 weeks now :(
[17:05] <duffydack> How do I get rid of the "packages kept back - parted udisks" everytime I use apt-get.. They have been there for a while..
[17:06] <BUGabundo_remote> ikonia: can you please update /topic? beta is out
[17:06] <Stargaze> FYI: Beta is available for download => http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[17:07] <BUGabundo_remote> duffydack: seems those depencies have been like that for a few weeks
[17:07] <BUGabundo_remote> duffydack: $ sudo aptitude update; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade; sudo aptitude full-upgrade and pray
[17:08] <claptrap> Is there any way to know when that fix hits the repo?
[17:08] <tgpraveen12> !info telepathy-gabble
[17:08] <yofel> claptrap: what fix?
[17:08] <claptrap> yofel: For the blacklisted OpenOffice package preventing me from upgrading to Lucid.
[17:09] <yofel> claptrap: which package? openclipart-openoffice.org?
[17:09] <tgpraveen12> Pici: topic change for beta 1 release reqd
[17:09] <claptrap> http://pastebin.com/z3CPDLg6
[17:10] <duffydack> BUGabundo_remote, http://pastebin.org/118140
[17:10] <claptrap> yofel: http://pastebin.com/z3CPDLg6
[17:11] <duffydack> it went ok
[17:11] <BUGabundo_remote> duffydack: GO FOR IT
[17:11] <BUGabundo_remote> and pray
[17:11] <BUGabundo_remote> :p
[17:11] <duffydack> now I just want my scrollwheel back in terminal :)
[17:12] <alex_mayorga> anyone else whose bluetooth icon is not showing any paired devices?
[17:13] <hifi> first
[17:13] <hifi> had to :(
[17:13] <Pici> Guess I picked a bad time to get lunch ;)
[17:17] <yofel> claptrap: hm, lemme check
[17:18] <Desciero> I have Alpha 3...how do I upgrade to Beta 1. It's not showing up in the Update manager
[17:19] <kklimonda> Desciero: just do a normal upgrade
[17:19] <BUGabundo_remote> Pici: no prob
[17:19] <Desciero> kklimonda: this is my first time upgrading in ubuntu  I have no idea what a "normal upgrade" is
[17:19] <yofel> Desciero: just use update-manager to install updates and you'll have the beta
[17:20] <kklimonda> Desciero: well - just see if there are any upgrades in the update manager and install them
[17:20] <Desciero> I checked for updates all day today
[17:20] <Desciero> nothing is showing up
[17:20] <avar> did you run it with the -d switch?
[17:20] <Desciero> Also, is there somewhere I can see the current version I have?
[17:20] <Desciero> avar: no
[17:20] <Desciero> update manager
[17:21] <yofel> claptrap: ok, I have no idea, I didn't have the package installed here but it installed just fine right now
[17:21] <avar> Desciero: "about ubuntu" in your toolbar?
[17:22] <Pici> Desciero: The alpha1/2/3/beta releases are just arbitrary points in the development process, nothing differenciates them other than the state of the archives during that time, so you aren't going to see anything that says that you're on one alpha versus another.
[17:22] <om26er> Desciero, if you did updates back few days then you are upto date. updates are frozen before the beta
[17:22] <om26er> or a few
[17:23] <Desciero> ok
[17:24] <Desciero> was hoping beta 1 would solve my ATI graphics driver problems
[17:24] <Desciero> bug #494699
[17:24] <Desciero> I've posted in that bug as mattrenfer
[17:24] <Desciero> cannot figure out what to do
[17:25] <xzcvczx> anyone know the command offhand/link to bug that says how to return the buttons to how they are meant to be?
[17:25] <ZykoticK9> xzcvczx, http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/how-i-do/move-buttons-to-right-side
[17:25] <xzcvczx> thanks ZykoticK9
[17:26] <ZykoticK9> xzcvczx, not sure about the "how they are meant to be" part - but that's how you can move them to the right side again :)
[17:27] <xzcvczx> ZykoticK9: sarcasm will get you nowhere :P
[17:28] <kklimonda> which theme is the official one? radiance or ambience?
[17:28] <kklimonda> ambiance*
[17:29] <Okidesu> ji think ambi ?
[17:30] <duffydack> for fglrx it says fix released, so is it ok to install, even tho its not in hardware drivers yet
[17:37] <vivid> wow
[17:37] <vivid> the beta page has lies
[17:37] <vivid> excerpt: Three different NVIDIA proprietary drivers are currently available: nvidia-current (190.53), nvidia-173,
[17:37] <LinuxGuy2009> Hi guys Im about to download the beta 1 of lucid and Im wondering if I can use a 4GB flashdrive to install it to and boot from it there so I can actually run it on real hardware. Or is it recomended that I install striaght to a  hard drive like on my Dell Mini 10v netbook?
[17:37] <vivid> apt-cache policy nvidia-current = 195.36.08
[17:37] <vivid> lies
[17:38] <Pici> s/lies/mistakes/
[17:39] <vivid> pretty big mistake imho
[17:39] <Ian_Corne> LinuxGuy2009: that should work
[17:39]  * xzcvczx wonders how many people will use radiance over ambience
[17:40] <jpds> vivid: We're human, hi.
[17:40] <Ian_Corne> but 4gb might be small if you want to actually install alot of applications
[17:40] <KB1JWQ> Hmm.  Picked up a DWA-130 USB wireless card.  Seems that it needs ndiswrapper, but running it dies in Lucid.
[17:40] <vivid> jpds, why not just yank nvidia-current from the repos
[17:40] <MarcoPau> hello, my xorg is not loading ati module thou ati_drv.so is there, thus I'm trying to configure it with xorg.conf but it won't read it and it's still using the built in configuration file. do you guys have any hint?
[17:40] <KB1JWQ> Dies in the cli on  sudo modprobe ndiswrapper
[17:41] <xfact_> Well, I am asking this insanely; that I heard Beta 1 is released but when I opened my update manager then it saying 'system is up to date' that means I am already on Beta 1?
[17:41] <Pici> vivid: Whats with the attitude?
[17:41] <MarcoPau> xfact_: yes, they didn't change anything since yesterday at least
[17:41] <vivid> what attitude? are you implying that you can tell my demeanor through your monitor?
[17:41] <LinuxGuy2009> Ok I think Ill go ahead and wipe my Dell Mini 10v and use it. I have 9.04 install backed up with Clonezilla so I should be ok. I just downloaded the alpha 3 and then come here and see beta 1. Now I have to download it again. ahh Oh well. I flipping love the new trash can icon though. Much better than the old orange box. First thing I noticed.
[17:42] <xfact_> MarcoPau, Well, thanks
[17:42] <vivid> all im saying is, its wrong, someone might actually install that and cause damage to their system, thus making it a pretty big mistake
[17:44] <Stargaze> great! lucid booted in less than 1 minute :)
[17:44] <KB1JWQ> Ooh, kernel bug!  http://pastebin.com/DZm70xam
[17:44] <KB1JWQ> Check the end of the dmesg output.
[17:45] <Drop_tables> 1 minute boot? I suggest you add more coal because it sounds like your computers steam pressure is low
[17:48] <Pici> vivid: It looks like there is a new package that is going in as soon as beta freeze is over (should be now) that will fix the problem.
[17:48] <Pici> vivid: see bug 533224
[17:48] <SandGorgon> zsync w.r.t yesterday's build downloads 85% of the iso - has that much changed ?
[17:49] <vivid> well, i fixed my issue with it by installing 190.53 weeks ago
[17:49] <vivid> i just think that it would be good to not include volatile software
[17:49] <vivid> and if you do, to make it very clear what that software has the potential to do
[17:50] <yofel> Pici: shouldn't we have put that into the 'Known Issues'?
[17:50] <Pici> vivid: Well, the restricted drivers aren't included on the CD, but I agree that this should have bypassed the beta freeze.
[17:50] <vivid> what yofel said
[17:52] <Some_Person> How safe would y'all say it would be to update my karmic install to lucid?
[17:53] <czr> hmm. what are the odds of release lucid support hardware that isn't supported in beta1?
[17:53] <Some_Person> Lucid runs terribly on the SD card, most likely because it's very slow, and I'd like to be able to use it more efficiently
[17:53] <czr> supporting even.
[17:53] <Okidesu> Some_Person, emm depends :) make a USB with unetbootin just in case ;)
[17:53] <yofel> czr: I don't think there will be much difference
[17:54] <Some_Person> Okidesu, unetbootin?
[17:54] <czr> yofel, right. sad though. I was hoping but.. no go :-)
[17:54] <yofel> czr: which hardware btw?
[17:54] <czr> neither the embedded NIC nor the WLAN is recognized
[17:54] <Okidesu> Some_Person, it uses the live iso and creates a bootable USB :) if you have one
[17:54] <czr> hp mini 5102
[17:54] <Okidesu> Some_Person, also you can test Lucid that way i think :)
[17:54] <Some_Person> Closest thing I have is the SD card I have lucid installed to now
[17:55] <LinuxGuy2009> Actually I had one other question before I start testing out lucid. I really would love to test on my desktop machine too. Ive been on Ubuntu for 2 years now so I know my way around, but have never tried installing a testing release along side an existing installation. Is that a pretty easy thing to do in the install options? I mean Ive seen options for it Ive just never attempted it. I think I might just do a fresh install on my Dell 
[17:55] <czr> yofel, an hp netbook more or less. atom-based.
[17:55] <Okidesu> weird i had no updates since beta release o_o is that normal ?
[17:55] <czr> also, the installer in beta1 failed to automatically setup LVM + dmcrypt (it tried to mount swap but failed), using alternate.
[17:56] <yofel> czr: can't say without the exact hw info, but if you have a broadcom wireless card maybe you just need the driver from the repos, that it doesn't recognize the NIC sucks though :/
[17:56] <yofel> czr: that is a known issue
[17:56] <czr> yofel, any hints on which repo to use? I think it's broadcom.
[17:57] <czr> although I'm waiting for the install to finish, the netbook doesn't want me to switch to another VT so can't run lspci yet.
[17:58] <yofel> czr: I'm not sure, the only driver package I know is bcmwl-kernel-source
[17:58] <czr> ah. it was my fault. need to press two buttons and a number key in order to get Alt+Fn :-).
[17:58] <Okidesu> yofel, any updates since yesterday >
[17:58] <yofel> Okidesu: not here
[17:58] <czr> eth is marvell 4381. wlan is bcom device 4353.
[17:59] <czr> hmm. at least the package description doesn't indicate that it supports 4353. but thanks for the hint.
[17:59] <SandGorgon> zsync w.r.t yesterday's build downloads 85% of the iso - has that much changed ?
[17:59] <czr> having no connectivity sucks though. no easy way to transfer packages.
[18:00] <Some_Person> update-manager -d will update me to lucid, right?
[18:00] <xfact_> Can anyone tell me in which folder all the icons of Ubuntu I will get?
[18:01] <KB1JWQ> Is that kernel problem I've linked in the pastebin above (ndiswrapper) fixable, or shuold I go grab a different adapter?
[18:01] <czr> yofel, thanks anyhow, I'll get back once the install finishes..
[18:01] <Pici> xfact_: /usr/share/icons
[18:01] <Stargaze> xfact, try ~/.icons
[18:01] <bjwebb> meh why is uk colemak keyboard messed up
[18:01] <Some_Person> Bug! update-manager says "This is still a ALPHA release." for lucid
[18:01] <yofel> Some_Person: yes, it will show that lucid is available to upgrade to
[18:02] <mvo> Some_Person: fix uploaded already
[18:02] <mvo> but not in yet
[18:02] <Some_Person> Will upgrading force me to restart at any point? devede is encoding a DVD
[18:03] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, you will know afterwards.
[18:03] <mvo> Some_Person: it will not force you, but there may be bugs, so if its very imporant to you, better wait
[18:04] <jo-erlend> it might force you to remove the software that's running though, which may have side effects, though it shouldn't.
[18:05] <Some_Person> Considering my slow internet connection though, devede will probably be done by the time it actually starts installing anything
[18:05] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, why would you want to take the risk? Lucid isn't very good yet anyway.
[18:06] <Some_Person> I've been using it from an SD card and it seems not too terrible
[18:06] <jo-erlend> that's what I thought too, until I'd tried it for a while. Lots and lots of regressions, though in my situation, it takes a while for them to show.
[18:06] <Some_Person> Besides, I'd like to see how it is without the slow SD card screwing things up
[18:07] <Some_Person> What's the worst that can happen anyway? I'm forced to reinstall karmic? not so bad
[18:07] <NoReflex> anyonw know why conky won't display the IP address of a interface in Lucid Lynx? I'm getting "No Address" even though the interface exists and has a valid IP address
[18:08] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, the worst thing that can happen is that you loose all your data and have to reinstall and start everything over.
[18:08] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: I usually format when I install from scratch anyway. I have everything I need backed up
[18:09] <bjwebb> how do i change the side the close, minimise etc. are on?
[18:09] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, it's very unlikely that upgrade to lucid will kill any of your hardware like we experienced in the past, but it is not released. If the computer and your data is important to you, don't upgrade.
[18:09] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, gconf-editor. But you should consider that some future version of Ubuntu might want to experiment with using the space for something else.
[18:10] <Some_Person> bjwebb: You can use my PPA, which puts them back in their karmic positions
[18:10] <jo-erlend> hehehe
[18:10] <Stargaze> maybe this is of some importance to others: embedded video's did not play in the chromium-brower, until i added the required video plugins in Firefox
[18:10] <bjwebb> jo-erlend: okay
[18:11] <avar> hneegh, lynx installing OO again
[18:11] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, open gconf-editor and locate Apps / Metacity / General
[18:11] <Some_Person> bjwebb: https://launchpad.net/~stownsend42/+archive/light-themes
[18:11] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, set button_layout to menu:maximize,minimize,close
[18:12] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, the colon separates right from left, so that config will place the menu-button on the left and the other three on the right.
[18:13] <bjwebb> jo-erlend: thanks
[18:13] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, why would you want to create a PPA for that? It seems almost like a hostile action to me.
[18:13] <bjwebb> its a kinda interesting decision they made to change that
[18:13] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: So that they can be in their karmic order (menu:minimize,maximize,close) without graphical problems
[18:13] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, ... to say the least.
[18:13] <bjwebb> lol
[18:14] <xzcvczxx> anyone know in empathy if there is a way to make the irc windows get tabbed? as at the moment everything else tabs except irc
[18:14] <bjwebb> ó áßßßßßããá
[18:14] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: The only other option is to put minimize in the middle, which I personally don't like
[18:15] <lullabud> i'm so disappointed that gnibbles isn't supported in 10.04 :'(
[18:16]  * lullabud kids
[18:16] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, it's hostile to demand root control over a user system in order to help them change a gconf key.
[18:16] <bjwebb> jo-erlend: it feels so "unintuitive", but so much of that is probably learned
[18:16] <jo-erlend> bjwebb, I agree. It was a very strange process and result. But the reason, as I understand it, is that he wants to have the option to experiment with the free space in a later version of Ubuntu.
[18:16] <Losha> lullabud: looks like it is: http://ns2.canonical.com/lucid/games/gnibbles
[18:17] <bjwebb> jo-erlend: but surely the same free space would be availible on the left?
[18:17] <bjwebb> nevermind, we shall see
[18:17] <lullabud> Losha: i was just kidding, haha, i guess some people really do take that seriously though.
[18:17] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: It depends on what the user wants. If they don't mind minimize in the middle instead of on the left, gconf on its own is fine. If they want the same order as karmic, and don't mind a graphical glitch, gconf is also fine. If they want it to look perfect and have the same order as karmic, however, the PPA is the only option
[18:17] <Losha> bjwebb: if you have to learn it, it can hardly be described as 'intuitive'...
[18:17] <lullabud> Losha: i just got an alert during install that it wasn't... that's why i mentioned it.
[18:18] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, so that you can gain access at some later point in time? Hostile.
[18:18] <bjwebb> Losha: well, that's the thing. i can't really say what is intuitive, because i've learned to always expect it on the right
[18:18] <Losha> lullabud: given there'a a package, that sounds like a bug. You can report it, if you don't mind the teasing :-)
[18:18] <KB1JWQ> I'll bite.  Why does launchpad tell me that  KB1JWQ's karma has expired?
[18:18] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: How does a few modifed PNGs and a gconf setting let me "gain access"?
[18:18] <bjwebb> damn, what is up with compiz
[18:19] <lullabud> Losha: but it's in universe... are the universe apps supported by canonical?
[18:19] <Losha> bjwebb: that seems like a good reason to object to having it moved, actually...
[18:19] <Some_Person> Besides, Mark Shuttleworth thanked me for creating it
[18:19] <Pici> KB1JWQ: Karma decreases over time.
[18:19] <yofel> KB1JWQ: o.O, maybe ask in #launchpad
[18:19] <yofel> lullabud: they  are not
[18:20] <ilor> hi, does anyone know why launching konversation (in lucid) starts up nepomuk, vituoso, a "desktop search indexing" info and the kitchen sink? I just wanted to start an irc client...
[18:20] <lullabud> yofel: that's what i thought.
[18:20] <KB1JWQ> Pici: I set up the account within the last 7 days and have registered bugs, commented, etc. :-)
[18:20] <yofel> !universe | lullabud
[18:20] <Losha> lullabud: not sure, but *someone* went to the trouble of packaging it, I'm sure they'd like to know if it's broken...
[18:20] <lullabud> ubottu: thanks ubotu!  you're the best.
[18:20] <Pici> KB1JWQ: Odd.
[18:21] <lullabud> Losha: it's not broken, it's just that it's not supported by canonical
[18:21] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Another advantage of the PPA is that it modifes the global default gconf setting instead of just for one user
[18:21] <Stargaze> Some_Person, are you a MOTU?
[18:21] <Losha> lullabud: so it actually works? In that case I misunderstood...
[18:21] <Some_Person> Stargaze: no
[18:22] <Stargaze> are there any MOTU here?
[18:22] <Losha> lullabud: Error: I am only a programmer, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[18:22] <lullabud> Losha: oh yeah, i just got an alert during my upgrade that it was no longer supported.  there's not a problem
[18:22] <lullabud> lol
[18:22] <yofel> Stargaze: you should find motus in #ubuntu-motu ;)
[18:22] <Some_Person> Stargaze: try #ubuntu-motu
[18:23] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, you're reserving the right to modify critical software in order to change those PNGs and gconf settings. Forever, no less. That's hostile.
[18:23] <Stargaze> anywayz... ;)
[18:23] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, why would you want to add a repo for a one-shot change?
[18:24] <yofel> jo-erlend: there's nothing hostile about it, you can view the changes on the ppa page, it's all open source
[18:24] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Again, just modifying the gconf setting does not fix the graphical problem when you set it to karmic's order
[18:24] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Furthermore, how exactly is this "hostile"?
[18:24] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: If you want to see my modifications, you can. The source is released
[18:25] <jo-erlend> demanding the right to make future changes to the system, when you know it won't be necessary, is hostile imho.
[18:25] <Pici> jo-erlend: Er. What?
[18:25] <trism> jo-erlend: no one demands anything, you can remove the ppa whenever you want, and you are not required to update when new updates are released
[18:25] <jo-erlend> then, every time there is an upgrade for ubuntu, the user will have to review your source files?
[18:25] <yofel> jo-erlend: huh? the user doesn't need to add the ppa...
[18:25] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: You're not required to add the PPA
[18:25] <Pici> jo-erlend: Perhaps you aren't sure what a PPA is.
[18:26] <jo-erlend> Pici, I am.
[18:26] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: If you don't want its changes, don't add the PPA
[18:26] <Pici> jo-erlend: Then I'm confused.
[18:26] <avar> Ubuntu changes my system every time I run aptitude upgrade. Do you think that's hostile?
[18:26] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Under your logic, PPAs shouldn't exist
[18:26] <mgolisch> how do i get the addressbar back in nautilus?
[18:27] <mgolisch> so i can click it and enter/alter the path manualy
[18:27] <Some_Person> mgolisch: ctrl-l
[18:27] <Pici> jo-erlend: Do you mean its hostile because its changing *user* gconf settings? If so, then the original ubuntu-light-themes package has the same problem.
[18:27] <jo-erlend> I used a bit harsh words. I didn't mean to imply that Some_Person was a hostile person, only that recommending someone to add a repo in order to change a gconf key is hostile, since it most likely will open the system unnecessarily to harmful changes that only newbies wouldnt be aware of.
[18:27] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: How does adding my PPA cause "harmful changes"?
[18:28] <jo-erlend> Pici, wouldn't Some_Person be able to "upgrade" my sshd?
[18:28] <Pici> jo-erlend: The same could be said for any PPA or even the official Ubuntu repos.
[18:28] <Some_Person> Besides, why would any newbie be using lucid right now?
[18:28] <Pici> jo-erlend: Why would he do that?
[18:28] <jo-erlend> Pici, right. That's why they should be used with caution, and not for small one-shot changes.
[18:28] <jo-erlend> Pici, because he wanted some zombies perhaps?
[18:29] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: It is not a "one shot change", unless you don't mind minimize in the middle or a graphical problem
[18:29] <trism> jo-erlend: the update manager will tell you if the update comes from a specific ppa
[18:30] <Pici> jo-erlend: Then PPAs shouldn't exist?
[18:30] <jo-erlend> lots of people will want to change the buttons to their original placement. By recommending the addition of a repo in order to change it, he's opening newbies systems to the possibility of new attack vectors.
[18:30] <Some_Person> jo-erland: Go through my source code, and find me the "attack vectors"
[18:31] <Pici> jo-erlend: Er, its not like just anyone can put code into that repo.
[18:31] <jo-erlend> Pici, no, they should exist. They should be used only if you really trust the source and only when they're necessary.
[18:31] <yofel> Some_Person: he means if the user adds your ppa and you upload another package later
[18:31] <Pici> jo-erlend: So if a person doesn't want to use a PPA they don't have to.
[18:31] <Pici> Some_Person isn't forcing anyone to do anything.
[18:32] <Some_Person> jo-erland: Would I be better off hosting the PNGs somewhere else and having users manually copy them into their system?
[18:32] <jo-erlend> newbie adds Some_Persons repo because he doesn't like the placement of the titlebar buttons. He doesn't know that Some_Person can add a new package for sshd in the future and doesn't consider it a risk, since it's such a small change. A year goes by, and he has kept the repo. Some_Person becomes angry at the ubuntu community and decides to make a few adjustments... We have had attacks only recently.
[18:33] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: I wouldn't do such a thing
[18:33] <Some_Person> I'
[18:33] <jo-erlend> right, and I should trust my personal life to someone on irc who calls themselves "some person". That's security...
[18:33] <Pici> jo-erlend: Then don't.
[18:33] <Some_Person> jo-erland: Are we better off trusting "jo-erland"?
[18:34] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: Really why would a newbie monkey with ppa's? and even if they did if they did not notice that sshd was being upgraded that is just poor administration. Really they should just put on the ppa install what they want then disable it.
[18:34] <Pici> PPAs have always been unsupported.
[18:34] <Some_Person> jo-erland: On the PPA, I have my real name and my real email address. What more do you want?
[18:34] <jo-erlend> I don't distrust you. I'm not saying you're a hostile person. I'm saying the actions are hostile, because they potentially are and you cannot be trusted.
[18:34] <avar> jo-erlend: This channel is really not the right venue to argue that everyone with an APT repository is a hostile person.
[18:34] <Stargaze> that sounds like windows logic ;)
[18:35] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, I gave the solution right here, on IRC, in a few lines without reserving the right to change his system.
[18:35] <Some_Person> jo-erland: Again, either you put minimize in the middle or have a graphical glitch
[18:35] <jo-erlend> avar, it was a concrete reply to a concrete suggestion. I'm not arguing anything, except to respond to the replies I got from it.
[18:36] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, not true. Most themes are not dependent on titlebar buttons placements.
[18:36] <DanaG> hmm, maybe a better idea: don't have them add the repo; have them just download the one .deb file.
[18:36] <Pici> jo-erlend: This one is.
[18:36] <Some_Person> jo-erland: True. Try it yourself on your system
[18:36] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: That is fine and dandy, but I doubt you took into consideration the image differences in the buttons, Some_Person did and made a ppa for it.
[18:36] <yofel> jo-erlend: the titlebar buttons are
[18:36] <DanaG> My solution: gconf, and don't use the (ugly anyway) theme.
[18:36] <Some_Person> jo-erland: This theme is dependent on position
[18:37] <avar> How about this: Stop picking on Some_Person for providing a valuable service /via standard means/ to the community.
[18:37] <BoondoKlife> I just use tweak-ui and a different theme if someone at my business wants it back in the other location
[18:37] <BoondoKlife> But I have used Some_Person's solution and think it is great!
[18:37] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, I understand that. It's still the wrong way to do it, especially if he doesn't tell the newbie what the consequences are.
[18:37] <avar> You can't provide updates in a reasonable way by having people monkeypatch their system or manually install a .deb, hence PPAs!
[18:37] <jo-erlend> DanaG, I agree completely.
[18:38] <arthurjohnson> Okay, quick question about Lucid Lynx.  I'm setting up a maintenance schedule to publish, and will I be able to go from 9.04 to 10.10?
[18:38] <jo-erlend> DanaG, well, except I think the theme actually looks nice, except for the dependence on the buttons placement.s
[18:38] <h00k> arthurjohnson: no, you have to hit 9.10 inbetween
[18:38] <Pici> arthurjohnson: No.  You need to upgrade to 9.10 and 10.04 inbetween.
[18:38] <vivid> the theme does look nice, and Some_Person's package works
[18:38] <arthurjohnson> h00k: Damn, okay.  Thanks for the information
[18:38] <Stargaze> imho, a newbie does not notice the difference4
[18:38] <jo-erlend> arthurjohnson, you will be able to upgrade, but you will probably have to upgrade step-wise through the releases in between.
[18:38] <h00k> Ah, yeah, and 10.04 in there, too.
[18:38] <BoondoKlife> arthurjohnson: But it should be painless really, just update to one then the next
[18:38] <DanaG> I find the scroll bars, in particular, ugly.
[18:39] <DanaG> Even "Nodoka" does rounded scrollbars far more nicely than the new themes.
[18:39] <Some_Person> jo-erland: I agree. The theme is nice. The PPA changes the theme to be dependent on the old karmic positions. Would you not agree that that would be useful to people?'
[18:39] <arthurjohnson> What about 8.04, can you jump to 10.04?
[18:39] <Pici> arthurjohnson: LTS releases can be upgraded to the next LTS though, so 8.04 can been upgraded directly to 10.04
[18:39] <jo-erlend> vivid, the package is not in question at all. I'm sure he's done a good job. Recommending that people should add a repo for it, is what I'm reacting to.
[18:39] <arthurjohnson> Pici: Thanks, you answered my question!
[18:39] <vivid> jo-erlend, i didnt add the repo, i just installed his deb
[18:39] <arthurjohnson> Pici: As I was typing it!  You must be psychotic!
[18:39] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, it's very nice if you use tab so that I get highlighted.
[18:39] <DanaG> My policy: I always, always read changelogs before installing updates.
[18:39] <arthurjohnson> Pici: er... Psychic, yeah...
[18:40] <jo-erlend> vivid, right. But he recommended adding the repo.
[18:40] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: sorry
[18:40] <vivid> but, the repo, last time i looked at it, only contains the one package
[18:40] <Pici> jo-erlend: Like I said before PPAs have always been unsupported.  It is always up to the user to decide whether they want to install this potentially untested software.
[18:40] <vivid> so i really dont see a problem in adding it
[18:40] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, don't be sorry. I'm not out to get you. :)
[18:40] <vivid> user freedom is user freedom
[18:41] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: It kinda feels like it at the moment
[18:41] <Pici> vivid: I spoke to the developer earlier regarding the nvidia-graphics-driver package, its waiting in the upload queue, so it should be built soon.
[18:41] <Jordan_U> jo-erlend: He could just as easily add a backdoor into the .deb itself, at least with a ppa you can ( if you decide to ) easily confirm that the source for the package was indeed him.
[18:41] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, perhaps you simply didn't consider the potential security issue with your recommendation. There is nothing wrong with that. We all learn all the time.
[18:41] <BoondoKlife> Some_Person: jo-erlend has been extra cranky about the buttons this morning =P
[18:41] <vivid> Pici, awesome, 195.36.15?
[18:41] <jo-erlend> Jordan_U, not as easily. Not at all.
[18:41] <Pici> vivid: Yes.
[18:41] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, that is true. :)
[18:42] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, except for the fact that it's 19:41. :)
[18:42] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: I had 3 options to release my modified theme: 1) PPA. 2) .deb package on X random site. 3) A bunch of .PNGs and instructions on how to integrate them into the system. Which would you prefer?
[18:42] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: I got on around 11AM EST and you were in full swing lol
[18:42] <vivid> lol
[18:42] <Stargaze> i am cranky because i still cannot unlock my login screen settings
[18:42] <avar> Some_Person: Where's this PPA and what does it do? I'd like to install it (maybe)
[18:42] <vivid> Stargaze, me either, still looks like karmic for me
[18:43] <czr> hmm. what's the esiest way to reset the password on lucid dmcrypted install? (the user password, not dmcrypt)
[18:43] <Jordan_U> jo-erlend: What do you mean? When you add the ppa its ppa key is added as well , from launchpad's trusted keyserver. I can go onto his launchpad page and verify his pgp key and only someone with his private ssh key can upload new source packages to the ppa.
[18:43] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: wow I take that back it was around 8:45AM here
[18:43] <Some_Person> avar: https://launchpad.net/~stownsend42/+archive/light-themes
[18:43] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, but that's really not related to this issue at hand. The issue here, is that we actually have had attacks on Ubuntu users in near past, and that adding this kind of repo and advertising it to newbies would be a perfect attack vector is you wanted a lot of free ubuntu zombies.
[18:43] <avar> Some_Person: sweet
[18:43] <vivid> the only issue i see is posting the ppa here might be frowned upon
[18:43] <avar> Why would it be frowned upon?
[18:44] <Some_Person> vivid: By who?
[18:44] <vivid> i dunno, sometimes people dont like "advertising"
[18:44] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: Nah just showing Some_Person it is nothing personal
[18:44] <vivid> personally i like the package, mac style buttons drive me crazy and their entire user interface is horrible
[18:44] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, it is nothing personal. I'm sure you didn't intend to misuse this possibility, but it would be a perfect way to "infect" newbies with a repo in order to gain access to their systems later.
[18:44] <avar> vivid: A fix to an issue people are complaining about isn't like spamming viagra or something. This is perfectly pertinent to the channel.
[18:45] <Stargaze> paranoid
[18:45] <jo-erlend> Stargaze, would you trust any it-guy who wasn't a bit paranoid?
[18:46] <Stargaze> can't be too cautious, jo-erlend
[18:46] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: I have no plans to put any other packages in that repo, unless a new version of light-themes is released
[18:46] <Jordan_U> jo-erlend: While I agree that ppas can be used to attack users, I disagree that they are any less safe than any other way of providing non-trivial modifications / services to users.
[18:46] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: But there is paranoia and then there is prudent caution. Paranoia is often destructive.
[18:46] <jo-erlend> avar, I agree. At the same time, a PPA like this would be a perfect trojan for Ubuntu.
[18:47] <jo-erlend> BoondoKlife, right. I think this is one of those times where you have to be very cautious.
[18:47] <h00k> You can never save a system from the user. If they add an untrusted PPA, they should know what is there and what they're installing.
[18:47] <Stargaze> so if a trojan is discovered, we know who the author was ;)
[18:48] <jo-erlend> h00k, do you see the possibility of Some_Person getting hacked, thereby giving the attacker the opportunity to upgrade users sshd, for instance?
[18:48] <avar> jo-erlend: Holy shit dude, if only there was some way to easily guarantee that packages were signed + review them before install!
[18:48] <avar> :)
[18:48] <h00k> !language | avar
[18:49] <BoondoKlife> jo-erlend: Granted, installing something on your system should never be taken lightly. Which really takes us back to if an end user, newbie or not, does not inspect what is being installed they are just being careless. Which is why windoes has so many issues.
[18:49] <avar> This is no more of a problem than thousands of already existing ppas in wide use
[18:49] <vivid> well, i would never recommend anyone use my ppa :p
[18:49] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: They'd have to get my GPG key password
[18:49] <vivid> but his is a totally different story, and i went through the entire deb package and saw nothing wrong with its contents that could be abusive
[18:49] <jo-erlend> this is getting out of hand: I simply meant to say that a one shot change of some PNGs and a gconf  key shouldn't be advertised as a good reason to add a PPA, because that PPA opens up a whole new world for devious hackers intent on harming you.
[18:50] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: launchpad only accepts signed packages in order to prevent such things
[18:50] <h00k> ^ this is true
[18:50] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: How would you rather have me release it then?
[18:50] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, what changes do you think you'll make to the users systems in the future that warrants a repo for it?
[18:51] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, a deb. A script. A repo if you must, but first of all, as a howto.
[18:51] <Some_Person> jo-erland: New versions of light-thtmes
[18:51] <Some_Person> s/thtmes/themes
[18:51] <vivid> hopefully new versions of light-themes will deprecate that ppa :p
[18:51] <avar> It's also just easier and less prone to error to tell everyone to install a PPA than rely on thousands of users manually copy/pasting some gconf line
[18:52] <jo-erlend> avar, right. Just trust Some_Person on the internet to have your best interests in mind.
[18:52] <Some_Person> vivid: I hope you're right, but if they do release a new version with buttons still in the odd positions, I can provide a new package
[18:52] <vivid> just look at the package diff and you should be able to tell its safe to install, ill be honest, i didnt trust him
[18:53] <avar> jo-erlend: No, like I pointed out these packages are signed and debian/ubuntu provides easy facilities to review things before you install them.
[18:53] <Stargaze> windows & mac users do not always know what happens under the hood, and they even no access to the source, not even potentially
[18:54] <Stargaze> how paranoid does that make a user?
[18:54] <vish> the discussion here is getting a bit off topic for +1
[18:54] <h00k> A script is a terrible idea. That's the whole reason we have a repository.
[18:54] <jo-erlend> yes, most people who want to change the titlebar buttons, who can't do it manually, will be very technically competent enough to see the security issues... </sarcasm>
[18:54] <vivid> thats true, but knowledgeable users have already checked it out and if there were security issues it would have been reported
[18:56] <vivid> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40962451/light-themes_0.1.5.8_0.1.5.8-1~ppa.diff.gz
[18:56] <vivid> you can see that its text changes and png changes, unless you can hide a trojan in a png its safe
[18:57] <jo-erlend> vivid, reported to where?
[18:57] <vivid> good question
[18:57] <vish> jo-erlend: you can report it to launchpad
[18:57] <Some_Person> Look, even Mark Shuttleworth said "Sam, thanks for making the PPA, and I encourage folks who prefer that layout to use it"
[18:57] <vivid> maybe the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the page
[18:57] <jonnor> Its actually not about that. It should be in our to actually teach users about security. We should teach best practice in every aspect. Especially since the user vector is the most prominent one.
[18:58] <vish> Some_Person: dont take jo-erlend's comments personally ;)
[18:58] <Pici> jo-erlend: Report a bug to launchpad saying that it doesn't warn users sufficiently of risks installing PPAs
[18:58] <arand> Or the launchpad channel here on irc, it seems to be rather resonsive.
[18:58] <Some_Person> vish: I'm not
[18:58] <jo-erlend> vivid, you're talking present! That's the main concern... A year from now, the repo would still be active on many users computers if he had advertised it heavily enough... One an attacker gets root access to a computer for a little while, no security advise in the world will help you.
[18:59] <Pici> jo-erlend: The same issue could be with any of the motu's computers.
[18:59] <jo-erlend> Pici, right. The less repos you add, the better.
[18:59] <Pici> jo-erlend: Actually more people have upload access to the official ubuntu repositories  then the people who have access to Some_Person's PPA.
[19:00] <vivid> lol
[19:00] <avar> yay, my first 10.04 bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rpm/+bug/542115
[19:00] <jo-erlend> Pici, and you don't feel that Some_Person is less likely to harm me than Canonical?
[19:00] <vivid> funny this is, currently official ubuntu repos present more harm to users than his ppa does
[19:00] <vivid> thing*
[19:00]  * h00k sighs
[19:01] <Pici> jo-erlend: I think the entire thing is a non-issue.
[19:01] <jo-erlend> vivid, a trojan never harms in advance, does it? It stays silent until the attacker needs it.
[19:01] <vish> jo-erlend: the same can be said for _any_ ppa , why is this being discussed?
[19:01] <jonnor> vish: I think thats the reason he is bringing it up. :)
[19:01] <bjwebb> meh
[19:01] <Pici> meh indeed.
[19:01] <avar> übermeh
[19:01] <bjwebb> Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0".
[19:01] <vivid> well, he can trojan my pc
[19:01] <h00k> doubleubermeh
[19:01] <vivid> go for it
[19:01] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Under what conditions is a PPA justified in your opinion?
[19:02] <bjwebb> but, of course xorg.conf has nearly nothing these daysi, so where do i start?
[19:02] <Pici> avar: eww, rpm.
[19:02] <vish> triples h00k's meh :)
[19:02] <jo-erlend> Pici, I'm unable to comprehend why you won't give someone access to replace your software a year from now because you're displeased with the placement of the titlebar buttons at this point in time.
[19:02] <avar> Pici: Yeah, no idea why I had that installed, but I filed a bug anyway :)
[19:03] <Some_Person> jo-erlend: Any new version released in the ubuntu repositories will replace the version provided by the PPA
[19:03] <Pici> jo-erlend: I don't add PPAs from random people.  I prefer to look at the code first.
[19:03] <vivid> bjwebb, you can create one if you really want to
[19:03] <jo-erlend> Some_Person, for software, where bugs might present security issues that must be resolved, for instance, or showstopper bugs that must get squashed. I don't see how a change of PNGs and a gconf key would ever have to be upgraded in the future.
[19:03] <vivid> bjwebb, Xorg -configure
[19:03] <jo-erlend> Pici, forever?
[19:03] <bjwebb> vivid: is that gonna help though?
[19:03] <Pici> jo-erlend: No, but I read the changelogs for every package upgrade that occurs.
[19:03] <DanaG> As far as I'm concerned, Mark Shuttleworth is no longer "benevolent" dictator, if he's the one breaking people's buttons.
[19:04] <vivid> no idea bjwebb, i had to restore mine because of a different issue
[19:04] <DanaG> I'd like to go to his computer and forcibly rearrange his keyboard.
[19:04] <vivid> lol
[19:04] <DanaG> ... and then map it so that the keys act properly for their new locations.
[19:04] <jo-erlend> Pici, this point in time is irrelevant. If this _was_ an attack, the source would be beautiful and safe so that the users wouldn't suspect anything and wouldn't have any reason to deactivate the repo. Then, in a year, or whenever he felt like it, he would just make an upgrade to some critical part of your system and have his way with your computer.
[19:05] <Pici> jo-erlend: That is the case for any PPA regardless of its content.
[19:05] <jo-erlend> Pici, the change logs? You mean the description of the change instead of the change itself?
[19:05] <jo-erlend> Pici, yes. That's why it shouldn't be used carelessly.
[19:05] <Pici> jo-erlend: Yes, and I realize that those are just text. But I trust the people from whom I'm installing software from.
[19:06]  * h00k hands Pici Greeting_Card.exe
[19:06] <Pici> Anyway, I think we've beaten this horse enough.  We're all entitled to our own opinions.
[19:06] <Pici> h00k: Thanks! Its not even my birthday!
[19:06] <vivid> well, we can beat a horse after its been beaten to death
[19:06] <jo-erlend> Pici... That scares me.
[19:06] <h00k> Pici: always thinking of you!
[19:07]  * Stargaze touched by so much love :')
[19:07] <vivid> <3
[19:08] <DanaG> "oh, it's just cosmetic"
[19:08] <DanaG> Or even easier: I'd go xrandr -x.  mirrors screen horizontally.
[19:08] <DanaG> to reset: xrandr -o 0
[19:09] <sterz> hi guys
[19:09] <sterz> is there a way to install eclipse from repos without having installed openjdk? (it comes bundled)
[19:09] <jo-erlend> DanaG, right. I tried making the point with qwery vs dvorak earlier, but that was regarded as trolling, since moving a keyboard button is much different from changing a window button :>
[19:09] <sterz> oh i also have sun jdk & sun jre installed from repos
[19:09]  * sterz uses lucid
[19:09] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: it is, sorry if you don't see the difference.
[19:10] <bjwebb> how do i find out what driver xorg is using?
[19:10] <kklimonda> bjwebb: you can check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[19:10] <avar> bjwebb: /var/log/X*log
[19:10] <yofel> sterz: I think you'll have to install the headless libs at least
[19:11] <vivid> brace for impact
[19:11] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, I see that changing to dvorak would be much more useful and that it would also be very harmful to the users if it was forced upon them.
[19:11] <yofel> sterz: I tried it once but it seems like openjdk is a hard depens for some package eclipse depends on :/
[19:12] <sterz> yofel, but eclipse tends to mess up with both jdk right?
[19:12] <h00k> vivid: heh.
[19:12] <sterz> at least in karmic it did
[19:12] <yofel> sterz: check with galternatives that all java libs are provided by sun-java6
[19:12] <DanaG> oopsie... that wedged my GPU.
[19:12] <sterz> yofel, maybe i should install from source
[19:12] <yofel> sterz: yes, it doesn't work too well with openjdk :/
[19:12] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, I do not, however, see the difference between that and changing the positions of "A" and "L", since you'd be using your little fingers anyway. It would simply be a change of hands. You'd easily adjust to it, people tell me.
[19:12] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: sorry but if we decide not to make any change that is inconvinient for our users we can as good just decide to stop developing Ubuntu at all.
[19:13] <yofel> sterz: that would work too
[19:13] <h00k> Perhaps this discussion could be taken elsewhere
[19:13] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, ... I'm advertising not changing the stuff that works, and instead focus on the stuff that doesn't work.
[19:14] <vivid> everyone here loves ubuntu, we should focus on that
[19:14] <DanaG> And it was not an "opt-in" change... it was FORCIBLY changed.
[19:14] <DanaG> That's what's bad.
[19:14] <DanaG> Forcibly changing anyone's settings... is very rarely ever good.
[19:15] <mc44> DanaG: virtually every change to a new release is a "forced" change not and opt-in change
[19:15] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: but everything "works" in the usability departament
[19:15] <DanaG> Even notify-osd was just a matter of taste, not a matter of "great, where the hell did the buttons go?"
[19:15] <DanaG> My dad gets confused every time he tries to use my mom's mac... tries to close the window with the button on the right (the "shade" button).
[19:16] <vivid> notify-osd got a lot of frowns iirc
[19:16] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: usability team is supposed to create something new and exciting. if they believe that for doing that they have to move window controls to the left so be it.
[19:16]  * arand still frowns
[19:17] <Andre_Gondim> where I can find the new Ubuntu font?
[19:17] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, right... But since all usability tests in the real world have shown this to be a bad move, and none I know of, have shown it to be a good move, I have to conclude it's a bad move... But that's just me, it seems.
[19:17] <h00k> ta-da! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
[19:17] <DanaG> And they've never even really given even a "bad" reason for the change.
[19:17] <DanaG> It's just "we changed it, so blah."
[19:17] <Pici> Andre_Gondim: Its not finished.
[19:17] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: huh? there have been tests other than people complaining you can link to?
[19:18] <Andre_Gondim> Pici, ok
[19:18] <jo-erlend> DanaG, I only recently got one. It's in case the design team wants to use the right hand side of the window for something else in some future release of Ubuntu.
[19:18] <DanaG> So, they should change it then, not now!
[19:18] <DanaG> I could turn that around: are there tests that show it GOOD to move? =þ
[19:18] <Some_Person> Holy crap, this is probably not good
[19:18] <Pici> Folks, the conversation here is supposed to be for support, and since beta1 was just released we really should be keeping it clear for that. #ubuntu-offtopic is available for chatter.
[19:18] <Some_Person> My battery died while it was upgrading from karmic to lucid
[19:19] <kklimonda> DanaG: apparently there have been if they convinced Shuttleworth
[19:19] <avar> "System upgrade is complete." -> moment of truth
[19:19]  * avar restarts
[19:19] <Some_Person> It was at the part where it was downloading stuff
[19:19] <DanaG> speaking of arguments: http://www.techeye.net/software/amd-and-nvidia-bitchfight-over-open-source-support =þ
[19:19] <DanaG> that article's title is awesome.
[19:19] <Pici> Sepaking of offtopic
[19:19] <Pici> speaking too.
[19:19] <Pici> !ot
[19:19] <vivid> totally off-topic, but i feel we need a change of mood http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2010/01/29/nextgenhacker101-owes-me-a-new-monitor.aspx
[19:19] <h00k> ...
[19:20] <arand> Some_Person: Died as in computer forced shutdown?
[19:20] <Pici> Guys, please.
[19:20] <vivid> sorry
[19:20] <yofel> Some_Person: if it was only downloading, then just run 'sudo apt-get clean' to clear the (maybe corrupted) package cache and start again
[19:20] <Some_Person> arand: Well, yes. The battery ran out of power
[19:20] <He4dShOt> sera
[19:20] <Some_Person> update-manager says it can only do a "partial upgrade"
[19:20] <yofel> Some_Person: BAD idea
[19:20] <kklimonda> DanaG: ATI has implemented KMS in their fglrx driver?
[19:20] <He4dShOt> ops
[19:21] <DanaG> no, but they have in the open driver.
[19:21] <Some_Person> yofel: What should I do?
[19:21] <DanaG> Oh yeah, a more on-topic thing:
[19:21] <yofel> Some_Person: ah, you're /etc/apt/sources.list might have lucid entries now, make sure to change everything back to karmic and try to upgrade again
[19:21] <DanaG> when I use a non-ubuntu-official kernel, I get no plymouth splash.
[19:21] <h00k> Some_Person: don't forget to use aptitude and not apt-get!
[19:21] <kklimonda> DanaG: they or community?
[19:21] <yofel> Some_Person: s/you're/your/
[19:22] <DanaG> ATI has some of their own employees employed specifically to work on the open driver.
[19:22] <Some_Person> yes, it does have lucid entries
[19:22] <kklimonda> DanaG: sweet
[19:22] <jo-erlend> DanaG, if they haven't changed it now, I really hope they won't, since I'm working on screencasts.
[19:22] <KB1JWQ> Got it sorted, Pici
[19:22] <Pici> KB1JWQ: What was it?
[19:22] <DanaG> Instead of a splash screen, I get a black screen and "ureadahead main process (525) terminated with status 5".
[19:22] <kklimonda> DanaG: why do you use vanilla kernel?
[19:22] <Some_Person> yofel: Ok, update-manager looks just as it did originally when I did it
[19:23] <DanaG> Upstream kernel has rudimentary power management for Radeon KMS.
[19:23] <yofel> Some_Person: replace lucid with karmic, run 'sudo apt-get clean' and 'sudo apt-get update' and try again
[19:23] <DanaG> Saves about 5 or 10 watts, and a big difference in fan noise.
[19:23] <KB1JWQ> Pici: It was a "take the Dlink piece of crap back to the store and get a belkin" issue.  I think that's a ubottu factoid...
[19:23] <Some_Person> yofel: That's what I did
[19:23] <Pici> KB1JWQ: :D
[19:23] <Some_Person> Should I install the latest karmic updates before upgrading to lucid, or does it not matter?
[19:23] <anichols> So the beta is a LiveDVD instead of a LiveCD?  Why the sudden jump in ISO size?
[19:23] <yofel> Some_Person: shouldn't matter
[19:24] <KB1JWQ> Using it now, it seems to work.
[19:24] <KB1JWQ> So yay. \o/
[19:24] <arand> jo-erlend: button placement you mean, they have said "we are going to do this through beta1, to get a lot of testing, and then we'll see"
[19:24] <vish> anichols: metric  unit sizes
[19:24] <anichols> vish: What do you mean?
[19:24] <DanaG> I remember even in the day of the floppy disks:
[19:24] <vish> anichols: rather SI
[19:24] <DanaG> 1.44MB floppy.  Ooh, this file is 1.4 MB.
[19:24] <DanaG> wait, it won't fit?  what the heck?
[19:24] <jo-erlend> arand, dammit! Please get me a reference?
[19:24] <Some_Person> I have boxes of 800k floppies still lying around
[19:25] <anichols> DanaG: But this is from 700 meg to 4 gig...a bit more of a difference when your DLing the ISO.
[19:25] <DanaG> It turns out 1.44 == 1.38.
[19:25] <vish> anichols: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
[19:25] <DanaG> Floppies are weird: one floppy "megabyte" is something like 1024 * 1000 bytes.
[19:25] <yofel> anichols: no, the isos of the beta are still ~700MB
[19:26] <yofel> anichols: http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/
[19:26] <vish> yofel: the confusion is the new units policy
[19:26] <Some_Person> DanaG: 1MB = 1024 KB
[19:26] <h00k> See: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=units-policy
[19:26] <arand> jo-erlend: The main bug... But I do think that canonical is going to stick with it, when they get an idea, they tend to, regardless of community hate.
[19:26] <yofel> Some_Person: NO
[19:26] <Some_Person> yofel: WHAT?
[19:26] <yofel> Some_Person: 1MiB = 1024 KiB, 1MB = 1000KB
[19:26] <anichols> yofel: Then explain why this ISO I'm DLing is reporting 270 MB of 3.9 GB downloaded?
[19:26] <vish> Some_Person: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy
[19:26] <Some_Person> yofel: KiB?
[19:27] <vish> !newunitspolicy is <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy>
[19:27] <yofel> Some_Person: read the link vish gave you
[19:27] <kklimonda> the release notes for 10.04 are going to be huge
[19:27] <KB1JWQ> Yay, updates in the repos!
[19:27] <anichols> yofel: Path = http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/beta-1/ubuntu-10.04-beta1-dvd-i386.iso
[19:27] <KB1JWQ> kklimonda: How so?
[19:27] <avar> I'm back, just rebooted into 10.04
[19:27] <KB1JWQ> avar: Well you're up, so apparently it's working well for you.
[19:27] <kklimonda> KB1JWQ: there are a lot of changes in 10.04 that users have to know about before they do an upgrade or install a new system
[19:27] <jo-erlend> arand, no.. Do you remember the firefox issue? That was reverted after lots of hassle.
[19:28] <avar> I hate the new Ambience terminal theme, but it's easily changed
[19:28] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: which one?
[19:28] <yofel> anichols: yes, *that* is the dvd image, but that page doesn't have the cd images, my linked page has them
[19:28] <jo-erlend> kklimonda, the licensing one.
[19:28] <kklimonda> jo-erlend: oh, the eula? but displaying eula wasn't canonical decision
[19:28] <jo-erlend> that actually _was_ a minor, cosmetic issue.
[19:28] <anichols> yofel: Hence my original question.  Why is it a DVD image now instead of CD images, as in the alpha-3 and all the other ubuntu versions I have seen?
[19:28] <Some_Person> yofel, vish: You have just wiped away what I thought was my correct knowledge of this stuff. Now I'm confused
[19:28] <anichols> yofel: A DVD image takes far more time to download.
[19:28] <kklimonda> anichols: you are downloading from the wrong location?
[19:29] <KB1JWQ> kklimonda: Seems like kind of a waste of effort. :-/  Users never read documentation...
[19:29] <arand> avar: Purple terminal, why ever would you be bothered by that :þ
[19:29] <vish> Some_Person: good to be confused sometimes ;)
[19:29] <yofel> anichols: there always were cd images and dvd images, the dvd is the desktop+alternate cd with the language packs I think
[19:29] <anichols> kklimonda: Check my download path?  ﻿http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/beta-1/ubuntu-10.04-beta1-dvd-i386.iso
[19:29] <kklimonda> KB1JWQ: but we can blame them later
[19:29] <yofel> anichols: you looked on the wrong page for the iso
[19:29] <jo-erlend> I just hope Ubuntu isn't heading for a mandrake.
[19:29] <KB1JWQ> kklimonda: I suppose, I'm just cranky from dealing with dumb questions today.
[19:29] <Some_Person> vish, yofel: What's the difference between a kB and a KiB, and why does a KB not exist?
[19:29] <anichols> yofel: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/beta-1/
[19:29] <KB1JWQ> "My computer broke, what do?" type of questions.
[19:29] <kklimonda> anichols: so you are downloading a dvd, the iso url is http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/ubuntu-10.04-beta1-desktop-i386.iso
[19:29] <anichols> yofel: Is that not the correct location?
[19:29] <KB1JWQ> I can't unload on the users, so I'm venting here. :-p
[19:30] <yofel> anichols: see kklimondas url
[19:30] <yofel> anichols: the correct location is linked from the beta release page
[19:30] <anichols> Much better....glad I asked in IRC.
[19:30] <anichols> yofel: I thought I was looking at the beta release page....
[19:31] <BUGabundo> jpds: back
[19:31] <yofel> anichols: well, then I don't know how you got to a 'cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/...' page, the link should be 'releases.ubuntu.com/...'
[19:31] <BUGabundo> sorry about leaving you haning
[19:31] <BUGabundo> *hanging
[19:32] <arand> jo-erlend: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/110
[19:32] <anichols> yofel: That's where I got the alpha-3 ISO from, and when I saw that go 404, I went up a directory, saw beta-1, said "aha, the beta is out", went into that, and gaped at it being a Live DVD.
[19:32] <DanaG> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand2
[19:32] <yofel> Some_Person: the difference is that KiB are IEC units and kB are SI units, IEC are base 2, SI are base 10
[19:32] <DanaG> orange and purple do look awesome together, if done WELL.
[19:32] <DanaG> As it is right now, the default background is "bleh".
[19:32] <KB1JWQ> SInce I'm doing this al from apt-get, what packages besides a new kernel require a reboot in Ubuntu?
[19:32] <jpds> BUGabundo: I'm used to IRC.
[19:33] <h00k> KB1JWQ: use aptitude instead of apt-get
[19:33] <KB1JWQ> h00k: Why would I do that?
[19:33] <h00k> KB1JWQ: it contains more logics
[19:33] <KB1JWQ> h00k: I'm coming from yum.
[19:33] <DanaG> bonus points if you "sudo aptitude"
[19:33] <DanaG> it gives you a nice ncurses ui,
[19:33] <DanaG> .
[19:33] <yofel> Some_Person: they have different names so you can recognize what is used, but units are commonly misused, this is now mostly being fixed in ubuntu
[19:33] <jorgerosa> hello
[19:34] <BUGabundo> jpds: one of those really stupid things to do... "oh look an extra gnome-terminal still open, lets close it.... NOOOOOOOOOOOO"
[19:34] <Stargaze> !hi| jorgerosa
[19:34] <BUGabundo> too late
[19:34] <jorgerosa> has anyone here, that can submit games to ubuntu repository?
[19:34] <KB1JWQ> h00k: Ugh, not a fan of aptitude.  It's obnoxious and convoluted.
[19:34] <bobby__> Hey... Can someone explain how I can upgrade to 10.04 beta?
[19:34] <Stargaze> jorgerosa, for games, check http://users.skynet.be/gbachot/html/games.html
[19:35] <KB1JWQ> h00k: Besides, how'm I supposed to script that?
[19:35] <h00k> KB1JWQ: sudo aptitude update, sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
[19:35] <BUGabundo> KB1JWQ: I guess you know nothing of what you are talking about then
[19:35] <jorgerosa> Ok, thx Stargaze
[19:35] <anichols> bobby__: http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/10.04/
[19:35] <KB1JWQ> BUGabundo: Entirely possible.  I've been using Ubuntu for... almost a day now.
[19:35] <BUGabundo> !upgrade | bobby__
[19:35] <BUGabundo> KB1JWQ: WOW... I'm so glad for you
[19:35] <jpds> anichols: Ahem, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+cdmirrors .
[19:36] <KB1JWQ> I think I just tripped over someone's sacred cow. :-x
[19:36] <jorgerosa> Stargaze: Sry, not exactly what i'm looking for. In fact doesnt seems nothing ubuntu related...
[19:36] <anichols> jpds: Interesting mirrors page there.
[19:37] <anichols> jpds: The one I'm getting the ISO from only needs 28 more minutes, and I'm on WiFi so I doubt I could DL faster anyway.
[19:37] <claptrap> Alright, so I'm currently doing the upgrade to Lucid, and it's in the configuring grub-pc section. How can I double check where grub is booting from right now?
[19:37] <bobby__> Okay... Nothing can find the 10.04 upgrade
[19:37] <bobby__> apt-get upgrade, update, update-manager...
[19:37] <KB1JWQ> But back to point.  In RedHat land you'll want to update after any updates to the kernel or to the glibc package.  In Ubuntu equivalents, that'd be linux-base and glibc I think?  Is there anything else that should mean "Yeah, time to reboot?"
[19:37] <Stargaze> -d
[19:37] <yofel> bobby__: use 'sudo update-manager -d'
[19:37] <bobby__> didn't work :s
[19:38] <yofel> bobby__: what ubuntu version are you running?
[19:38] <bobby__> 10.04 Alpha 3
[19:38] <BUGabundo> yofel: give then fish.... or teach them to fish
[19:38] <yofel> bobby__: then you don't upgrade to the beta but just make sure you have all updates installed
[19:38] <yofel> BUGabundo: haha
[19:38] <bobby__> They are all installed, the problem is, the upgrade won't even show up
[19:39] <bobby__> I'm up to date as of 23 seconds ago, but the upgrade won't show up
[19:39] <yofel> bobby__: there is NO upgrade from alpha3 -> beta1
[19:39] <bobby__> oh really :s
[19:39] <yofel> bobby__: if you have all updates then you have the beta already
[19:39] <bobby__> Really?...
[19:39] <DanaG> weird: ubuntu-artwork newsgroup said "935" new messages... and then when I went to view it, there were really only TWO new messages.
[19:40] <yofel> bobby__: the beta is nothing special, more like a more stable snapshot of the packages in the repository
[19:40] <bobby__> That wasn't the case in Karmic... I did a straight upgrade from the last karmic alpha to the beta :s
[19:40] <yofel> bobby__: so that we get better installation discs and better working upgrades
[19:41] <bobby__> Interesting...
[19:41] <bobby__> Is this because it is an LTS?
[19:41] <yofel> bobby__: that wasn't the case or update-manager was buggy back then
[19:41] <bobby__> Interesting...
[19:41] <yofel> bobby__: you only upgrade from release to release as in karmic -> lucid, no need to upgrade from Lucid -> Lucid
[19:42] <bobby__> ... In the karmic betas and alphas, and the lucid alphas so far I've been upgrading :?
[19:42] <vish> !newunitspolicy is <Ubuntu has change its units policy in Lucid to maintain consistency. The units now follow the SI standards [ base-10 ]. For more information about the new units policy Kindly read : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy >
[19:42] <yofel> bobby__: and it has nothing to do with Lucid being an LTS
[19:42] <BUGabundo> yofel: one of things that always amazes me. is where new users get this ideas :S
[19:42] <bobby__> oh... Thanks for your help than...
[19:42] <yofel> BUGabundo: yeah, but that makes this # never boring ^^
[19:43] <Trewas> at least canonical is doing something sane this cycle (the units policy) :)
[19:43] <Some_Person> Ok, I think I finally understand it again (but correctly). It seems I've been incorrectly using SI units with base-2 for a very long time
[19:44] <yofel> Trewas: +1
[19:44] <yofel> Some_Person: as many other people in the world, there's still a lot that needs to be fixed
[19:45] <Some_Person> yofel: One thing still confuses me though. How do you represent "bits"?
[19:45] <nasso_> just installed and nouveau sucks big time.couldnt even get to desktop without installing real nvidia drivers via rescuemode. i can not believe they included this buggy crap in a LTS.
[19:45] <litropy> Hi, all: I accidentally did a partial upgrade to 10.04 from 9.10 last night. I'm not in 9.10 live USB, in the partitioner. I'd like to just format my partition, reinstall 9.10, and keep everything the same. It's asking me to specify a mount point. During 10.04's upgrade, I elected to install GRUB on all partitions. Before that, I nstalled GRUB2 on another partition. GRUB version 1.98,...
[19:45] <litropy> ...currrently. What should I specify as my mount point? The partition I want to install 9.10 on, or the partition I originally installed GRUB2 on?
[19:45] <litropy> I'm now in 9.10 live USB*
[19:45] <yofel> Some_Person: kB -> kilobytes, kb -> kilobit (I THINK)
[19:46] <BUGabundo> nasso_: well DO YOUR job and report bugs as appropriate! don't blast the work of others :(
[19:46] <kklimonda> yofel: KiB
[19:46] <litropy> I'll then be carefully upgrading to 10.04.
[19:46] <kklimonda> oh wait, kilobit..
[19:46] <kklimonda> ugh
[19:46] <kklimonda> time to get some rest :)
[19:47] <alex_mayorga> has this been packaged for Ubuntu http://counter.li.org/scripts ?
[19:47] <Some_Person> yofel: And what's a "kibibyte"?
[19:47] <hexdump_> hey how is ubuntu 10.04?
[19:47] <jorgerosa> BUGabundo: fui ao teu site, o linux.pt mas não deixa registar.
[19:47] <BUGabundo> lol
[19:47] <yofel> Some_Person: KiB -> kibibyte (base 2 unit name, takes a while to get used to ^^)
[19:47] <BUGabundo> jorgerosa: wrong #. try #ubuntu-pt
[19:48] <jorgerosa> BUGabundo: Ok, i will. Thankyou for being so helpful... NOT! :P
[19:48] <Some_Person> yofel: So what I've been calling a kilobyte for all these years is actually a kibibyte?
[19:48] <jorgerosa> ;)
[19:49] <yofel> Some_Person: depends if you mentioned file sizes or HDD sizes :D
[19:49] <Some_Person> file sizes mainly
[19:49] <Some_Person> I've known for a long time that HDD sizes used base-10
[19:49] <nasso_> BUGabundo: i dont say its a bad project. try to do a apt-cache search nouveau. it says experimental next to the package. does that sound like something you should use by default in a lts?
[19:50] <BUGabundo> nasso_: I used it and tested, and reported bugs on it for over 3 weeks
[19:50] <BUGabundo> from my POV it works very nicelly
[19:50] <Some_Person> But wait, this means that most operating systems use the wrong units! I swear I never saw "KiB" in Windows
[19:50] <BUGabundo> nasso_: plus, having something working with great 2D support totally open, is always better then nothing at all
[19:50] <hexdump_> 10,04 Como é Ubuntu?
[19:50] <bjsnider> nasso_, the alternative is nv, which is at least as bad if not worse
[19:51] <yofel> Some_Person: ok, I was wrong, kbit -> kilobit (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit)
[19:51] <hexdump_> Guess I'll just try it
[19:51] <nasso_> BUGabundo: apparently its not working at all for me so nv is probably better
[19:51] <Trewas> Some_Person: using base-2 units does not make much sense most of the time, as going from KiB to MiB etc requires a calculator instead of just changing the place of the decimal point like with base-10 units
[19:51] <litropy> screw it i'll just use my 9.10 partit and hope for the best
[19:51] <BUGabundo> hexdump_: english please! or #ubuntu-br
[19:52] <Some_Person> Trewas: But most applications seem to use base-2
[19:52] <yofel> Some_Person: exactly. (actually I was shocked too when I learned of the difference ^^)
[19:52] <nasso_> BUGabundo: it is experimental software. its young. i could understand it it appeared in 10.10. but in a lts?!
[19:52] <hexdump_> BUGabundo:  thats fine just wanted to see if updating to Ubuntu 10.04 would be a good idea
[19:52] <kklimonda> Some_Person: they are broken
[19:52] <BUGabundo> we need support for framebuffer
[19:52] <Some_Person> Problem! Nautilus says I have a folder that's "34.0 KB"
[19:52] <Trewas> Some_Person: yes, which does not mean that ubuntu starting to mark the units correctly and using mostly SI units is a bad idea
[19:52] <Some_Person> what does that mean?
[19:52] <kklimonda> Some_Person: for 10.04 we are fixing nautilus and maybe few others but the idea is to fix them all
[19:53] <BUGabundo> hexdump_: if you are ready to test, have backups, feel confortable filling bugs, and fixing stuff that breaks, sure
[19:53] <kklimonda> nasso_: it's not that young or that experimental
[19:53] <Some_Person> kklimonda: Will nautilus use base-10 or base-2?
[19:53] <kklimonda> Some_Person: base-10
[19:54] <hexdump_> BUGabundo:  yeah it's a given that it would be buggy right now.  I might just slap it on another pc and give it a go.
[19:54] <kklimonda> nasso_: LTS means "Long Term Support" and it's easier to support nouveau than nv
[19:54] <Some_Person> kklimonda: What does it use in karmic?
[19:55] <kklimonda> Some_Person: base-2 with wrong labels afair
[19:55] <Some_Person> Why the move to base-10?
[19:55] <kklimonda> so users are less confused
[19:56] <Some_Person> I'm actually more used to base-2 than base-10, so this will probably confuse me
[19:56]  * anichols prefers base-2 to be honest.
[19:56] <kklimonda> only because that's what you have been using for years
[19:56] <anichols> kklimonda: Indeed
[19:57] <Some_Person> kklimonda: Windows uses base-2 with wrong labels AFAIK. Why not just use base-2 with the correct labels?
[19:57] <CosmiChaos> my 8600gts 16x on nforce 630i 16x pci express still is only at bus type 4x :((((( any idea https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/541749
[19:57] <Trewas> Some_Person: so you know instinćtively whether 7100000KiB will fit to 680MiB cd, and so on? :)
[19:57] <Trewas> Some_Person: most of the time using base-2 units makes no sense, as it only makes things complicated to humans
[19:58] <Trewas> well there was some extra zeros, but you get the idea
[19:58] <jimlovell777> is there a place where I can find why a package has been removed from the repos?
[19:59] <anichols> So much for remembering 1024 - 1048576 - 1073741824 :P
[19:59] <claptrap> Alllllriiiight. Looks like Lucid install was successful... now to find the problems it caused. qq
[19:59] <kklimonda> Some_Person: because disks use base-10 and CDs use base-10 (with wrong labels) so if we use base-2 the question "does this file fit this cd" remains
[19:59] <Some_Person> that actually makes sense
[20:00] <bjsnider> CosmiChaos, it's regrettable that your system uses an nforce chipset
[20:00] <CosmiChaos> what do you want to say?
[20:01] <CosmiChaos> ah ok i got the word, whats the problem with nforce chipset
[20:01] <Some_Person> all righty, I'm for the switch then
[20:01] <CosmiChaos> chipset and card are from nvidia and both are claimed to be 16x
[20:01] <CosmiChaos> so wtf is going on? in windows it works
[20:02] <claptrap> Sooooo. This little Twitter/Facebook/chats thinger... what does it do on the chat protocols, exactly?
[20:03] <claptrap> Like, do I need to be using Empathy to get the full benefits of this little deal?
[20:03] <MikeChelen> claptrap: it seems to use empathy by default, a number of account types are supported
[20:04] <Crashbit> I have a problem with blogtk. It doesn't import gtkhtml2, because the packet that contain doesn't exist on lucid
[20:04] <avar> how do I change not only the theme but also the desktop background to the default of the theme?
[20:04] <owaislone> hey everyone
[20:04] <owaislone> i'm on lucid alpha3
[20:04] <CosmiChaos> bjsnider, there must be a way to find out for what reason it is setup as 4x, since lspci says both are capable of 16x damnit
[20:04] <owaislone> i just upgraded a few packages and nautilus  + docky stopped working
[20:04] <claptrap> MikeChelen: Well, I mean, I signed in on it... but... now what? Did it start Empathy? Am I able to receive messages, or do I need to start Empathy for it to hook into?
[20:05] <Some_Person> owaislone: you should be on beta1
[20:05] <owaislone> segmentation fault (core dumped)
[20:05] <bjsnider> CosmiChaos, the nforce chipset is not well supported in linux compared to the intel chipsets
[20:05] <owaislone> @some_person: thats what i was trying to do by upgrading
[20:05] <MikeChelen> claptrap: think it starts empathy automatically, if you have created the chat accounts already
[20:06] <DBO> I get occasional screen flickering on my intel based laptop after upgrade
[20:06] <CosmiChaos> bjsniper oh no problem i already claiming in #nvidia too about what the problem may be, see: I SEE THAT ITS NOT WELL SUPPORTED ;)
[20:06] <xfact> They changed every thing default except the pointer (and some icons)
[20:06] <owaislone> here are the packages i upgrader
[20:06] <kklimonda> Crashbit: report a bug
[20:06] <owaislone> gnome-session (2.28.0-0ubuntu7) to 2.29.92-0ubuntu1
[20:06] <owaislone> gnome-session-bin (2.28.0-0ubuntu7) to 2.29.92-0ubuntu1
[20:06] <owaislone> gnome-settings-daemon (2.28.1-1ubuntu2) to 2.29.92-0ubuntu2
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-alsa (0.10.25-7) to 0.10.28-1
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-nice (0.0.10-2) to 0.0.10-2build1
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (0.10.17-3ubuntu3) to 0.10.18-1ubuntu1
[20:06] <claptrap> Hm. Let's see if I can remember what annoyed me about Empathy.
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse (0.10.17-0ubuntu1) to 0.10.18-0ubuntu1
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (0.10.27-1) to 0.10.28-1
[20:06] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-apps (0.10.25-7) to 0.10.28-1
[20:06] <DBO> :/
[20:07] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio (0.10.17-1ubuntu1) to 0.10.21-1ubuntu1
[20:07] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-tools (0.10.25-4) to 0.10.28-1
[20:07] <owaislone> gstreamer0.10-x (0.10.25-7) to 0.10.28-1
[20:07] <owaislone> gvfs (1.5.1-0ubuntu2) to 1.5.5-0ubuntu1
[20:07] <owaislone> gvfs-backends (1.5.1-0ubuntu2) to 1.5.5-0ubuntu1
[20:07] <Crashbit> kklimonda: ok :)
[20:07] <owaislone> gvfs-bin (1.5.1-0ubuntu2) to 1.5.5-0ubuntu1
[20:07] <kklimonda> argh
[20:07] <owaislone> gvfs-fuse (1.5.1-0ubuntu2) to 1.5.5-0ubuntu1
[20:07] <claptrap> Can someone uh
[20:07] <owaislone> checkbox (0.8.6) to 0.9
[20:07] <owaislone> checkbox-gtk (0.8.6) to 0.9
[20:07] <claptrap> Give that thing the boot?
[20:07] <claptrap> :E
[20:07] <owaislone> example-content (38) to 40
[20:07] <CosmiChaos> bjsnider, i still get confused by lspci saying the port is capable of 16x
[20:07] <owaislone> xorg (1:7.5+1ubuntu12) to 1:7.5+3ubuntu1
[20:07] <owaislone> apport (1.12.1-0ubuntu5) to 1.13-0ubuntu3
[20:07] <owaislone> apport-gtk (1.12.1-0ubuntu5) to 1.13-0ubuntu3
[20:07] <owaislone> apport-symptoms (0.8) to 0.9
[20:07] <owaislone> bind9-host (1:9.6.1.dfsg.P2-1) to 1:9.7.0.dfsg.1-1~build1
[20:07] <owaislone> brltty (4.1-2ubuntu4) to 4.1-2ubuntu6
[20:07] <owaislone> brltty-x11 (4.1-2ubuntu4) to 4.1-2ubuntu6
[20:07] <kklimonda> !op
[20:07] <owaislone> cdbs (0.4.62+nmu1ubuntu4) to 0.4.62+nmu1ubuntu5
[20:07] <owaislone> command-not-found (0.2.40ubuntu2) to 0.2.40ubuntu3
[20:07] <owaislone> command-not-found-data (0.2.40ubuntu2) to 0.2.40ubuntu3
[20:07] <xfact> owaislone, Please use ubuntu pastebin
[20:07] <owaislone> computer-janitor (1.14-0ubuntu1) to 1.14.1-0ubuntu2
[20:07] <owaislone> computer-janitor-gtk (1.14-0ubuntu1) to 1.14.1-0ubuntu2
[20:07] <owaislone> console-setup (1.34ubuntu6) to 1.34ubuntu11
[20:07] <owaislone> kbd (1.15-1ubuntu1) to 1.15-1ubuntu3
[20:08] <kklimonda> thanks jrib
[20:08] <jrib> kklimonda: thank you
[20:08] <bjsnider> CosmiChaos, i've deliberately avoided nforce boards because of these types of issues, so i ain't no nforce expert, if there is such a thing
[20:09] <avar> where do I find this "meMenu" ?
[20:09] <kklimonda> avar: well, it's in the right corner of the top panel
[20:10] <avar> not for me, I upgraded from 9.10
[20:10] <CosmiChaos> bjsniper so -because 16x works in windows and lspci says in linux that port is capable of 16x - it seems to be caused by the kernel pciport-driver
[20:10] <CosmiChaos>  Kernel driver in use: pcieport
[20:10] <avar> can't find it in "add to panel" either
[20:11] <MikeChelen> it's built into the user switcher / logout
[20:11] <kklimonda> avar: it's called indicator session
[20:12] <owaislone> anyone?
[20:12] <avar> ah, it was in "indicator applet session"
[20:13] <kklimonda> owaislone: if you have a segmentation fault than you should report bug on LP using the apport dialog that shows up after application crash.
[20:13] <MikeChelen> !pastebin | owaislone
[20:13] <owaislone> no apport dialog shows up
[20:13] <owaislone> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/397975/
[20:14] <kklimonda> owaislone: check if you have a related crash file in /var/crash/
[20:14] <claptrap> Ugh wow
[20:15] <bjwebb> anyone know why i may have lost gnome?
[20:15] <kklimonda> are there any problems with lucid iso images and unetbootin ?
[20:15] <kklimonda> bjwebb: well, that's a vague question - what do you mean by "lost" ?
[20:15] <kklimonda> bjwebb: have you tried (re)installing ubuntu-destkop?
[20:15] <bjwebb> kklimonda: gdm doesn't list it anymore
[20:15] <bjwebb> kklimonda: no, will do
[20:16] <MikeChelen> kklimonda: try using usb startup creator instead of unetbootin
[20:16] <bjwebb> oh, i don't have ubunu-desktop, i see what's up
[20:16] <owaislone> nope
[20:16] <owaislone> no crash file
[20:16] <kklimonda> MikeChelen: that's not what I've asked for though - a friend of mine has borked his lucid installation and have only access to windows
[20:17] <CalmvsKhaos> sorry if this has been asked, but where is the best place to download the beta?
[20:17] <Some_Person> CalmvsKhaos: type /topic
[20:17] <CalmvsKhaos> ok ty
[20:17] <bjwebb> well, lets try again
[20:17] <MikeChelen> kklimonda: oh that is too bad, have had more luck with usb creator than unetbootin
[20:17] <nicuro> How can I request that the mobile-broadband-provider-info package be updated in Lucid to the latest version in gnome. it is just a database of mobile broadband operators and should not create any problems?
[20:17] <CalmvsKhaos> when was the beta released today?
[20:18] <owaislone> bump!
[20:19] <MikeChelen> !repeat | owaislone
[20:19] <vish> CalmvsKhaos: yes, http://release-blog.ubuntu.com/?p=102
[20:19] <owaislone> aight
[20:19] <guntbert> owaislone: this isn't a forum - please have patience
[20:19] <owaislone> nautilus crashes after upgrading a few packages
[20:19]  * Some_Person has never had the misfortune of using either
[20:19] <kklimonda> owaislone: it's not really a forum - check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash for how to debug a crash
[20:19] <owaislone> here is the list
[20:19] <owaislone> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/397975/
[20:19] <owaislone> nautilus shows segmentation fault
[20:19] <owaislone> but works as root
[20:20] <kklimonda> owaislone: segmentation fault means nothing if you don't have backtraces
[20:20] <owaislone> guntbert:i thought forum should have patience.. irc is instant.. hehe
[20:20] <owaislone> kklimonda: where do i find one?
[20:21] <vish> owaislone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
[20:21] <guntbert> owaislone: I was referring to the "bump" - its senseless here :)
[20:21] <MikeChelen> owaislone: people come and go, they might not have seen your whole question, so it is good to repeat a summary when needed
[20:22] <owaislone> hmm..i'm new.. so can you guys at least point out the suspects.. so i downgrade them and see if nautilus works again
[20:23] <Some_Person> does lucid+1 have a name yet?
[20:24] <lenios> no
[20:24] <claptrap> Mmk
[20:25] <claptrap> So, now I can't alt-tab out of fullscreen WoW in WINE. v.v
[20:25] <alex_mayorga> ouch got a kerneloops
[20:25] <nicuro> Where do I go if I want to suggest a package updated in the repos?
[20:26] <Some_Person> nicuro: Probably the bug tracker, though it's unlikely to happen since it's after the freeze
[20:27]  * bjwebb wonders if not being in group video could be causing trouble
[20:27] <nicuro> the package readme says "The Package contains only informational files so it's safe for distributions to grab updates even during feature freeze and maintenance stages."
[20:28] <lenios> what is this package, is it really needed?
[20:29] <MikeChelen> how can i check if a system has been upgraded from alpha 3 to beta?
[20:29] <nicuro> its mobile-broadband-provider-info and its not updated since 20091009
[20:30] <nicuro> its the list of mobile broadband settings for mobile operators  settings
[20:30] <nicuro> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/mobile-broadband-provider-info
[20:30] <nicuro> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/mobile-broadband-provider-info/20091009-0ubuntu2
[20:31] <claptrap> This is tres frustrating.
[20:31] <lenios> MikeChelen, just update/upgrade your packages, and you will be beta
[20:31] <nicuro> and for example in romania it does not have all the operators. and the one from gnome does
[20:32] <alex_mayorga> Bug #542178
[20:32] <MikeChelen> lenios: upgrade thinks there isn't anything to do, maybe beta is not available on all repo mirrors yet?
[20:33] <lenios> there was no change in the last day
[20:33] <lenios> beta freeze
[20:33] <MikeChelen> so there are no updates with today's beta release?
[20:33] <owaislone> Hey guys
[20:33] <owaislone> it's working now
[20:34] <lenios> if you updated in the last days, you should be beta now
[20:34] <owaislone> somehow it generated a crash report upon trying again and the crash report said some packages we obsolete
[20:34] <owaislone> installed them and woot... it works now.. Thanks.
[20:34] <owaislone> it's never a waste to have a look at the irc
[20:34] <MikeChelen> lenios: ah ok, thanks
[20:35] <owaislone> today i learned that apport reports sit in /var/crash
[20:35] <owaislone> thanks again
[20:35] <owaislone> bye
[20:35] <owaislone> keep rocking!!
[20:36] <avar> Some_Person: So after I add your ppa how do I install your light-themes and not ubuntu's ?
[20:36] <claptrap> Oh wow.
[20:36] <Seq> Hey. How can I troubleshoot a failure to boot with nouveau modesetting is enabled? It happens with beta1 itself and with the xorg-crack pushers PPA
[20:36] <Some_Person> avar: just update your system
[20:36] <claptrap> WINE emulating a virtual desktop at my resolution actually goes over the WHOLE screen now.
[20:36] <Seq> happens with both, I should say. I first tested plain beta1
[20:36] <claptrap> Neato!
[20:37] <claptrap> I hope that sticks around. :D
[20:38] <nasso_> is there a way to move the close,minimized and maximize nuttons to the right side?
[20:38] <claptrap> ...hey
[20:38] <claptrap> That issue didn't hit me. o_o My buttons are still on the right.
[20:38] <avar> Some_Person: Even though I've added your ppa aptitude update/upgrade/dist-upgrade doesn't install anything new. And I don's see your light-themes under aptitude show light-themes
[20:39] <nasso_> claptrap: i did a clean install. you upgraded?
[20:39] <claptrap> nasso_: Yeah.
[20:39] <Bittarman> so, are the buttons staying on the left?
[20:39] <Bittarman> or is that tbd?
[20:39] <claptrap> Seems pretty 100%.
[20:39] <Bittarman> (I quite like them there)
[20:40] <claptrap> I still have yet to see a real reason for it. qq
[20:40] <claptrap> The only thing I've seen so far is Shuttleworth's "CAUSE I WANNA!"
[20:40] <Some_Person> avar: apt-cache show light-themes
[20:40] <Some_Person> avar: what version does it say?
[20:40] <Bittarman> claptrap, seems like a good enough reason to me :P
[20:40] <Bittarman> i think its kinda neat
[20:41] <claptrap> lol.
[20:41] <BluesKaj> !intelhda
[20:41] <Bittarman> makes the titlebar cleaner
[20:41] <claptrap> Yeah, but
[20:41] <claptrap> What's going on over there now?
[20:41] <claptrap> Like.
[20:41] <claptrap> There's a huge, empty space not doing anything.
[20:41] <Bittarman> mmmmmm deadspace
[20:41]  * Bittarman drools
[20:41] <claptrap> ...lol.
[20:42] <claptrap> I put my monitor space to work. :<
[20:42] <lenios> it's supposed to minimize mouse gestures needed for actions
[20:42] <Bittarman> I think asthetically its much better
[20:42] <duffydack> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/meet-zeitbutton-right-hand-side.html
[20:42] <claptrap> lenios: How so?
[20:42] <avar> Some_Person: Two, one of them 0.1.5.8-1~ppa
[20:42] <busata> hmm, might be a stupid question, I have alpha 3 version, but there hasn't been any update for 2 days now, is that normal?
[20:42] <Bittarman> claptrap, most likely your pointer is left up near the top left anyway
[20:42] <busata> (as the beta1 version is out)
[20:42] <Bittarman> thats where most mouse action happens
[20:43] <alex_mayorga> busata: I have the same question
[20:43] <Bittarman> file menu us there, usually copy/paste buttons are up near there, along with save etc.
[20:43] <Bittarman> s/us/is
[20:43] <claptrap> I can -kinda- see that (not true for me, since I use a trackball) but I see more misclicks than anything else.
[20:43] <Some_Person> avar: apt-cache policy light-themes - which one is the candidate?
[20:43] <claptrap> "File -> Pri--- ah shit I just closed everything."
[20:44] <CalmvsKhaos> is there a DVD .iso of lucid? all im seeing is cd's isos
[20:44] <Bittarman> any program worth its salt goes "Are you sure you want to quit, all changes will be lost" if youve done any work and not saved it yet
[20:44] <Bittarman> any that don't should have issues filed against them
[20:44] <claptrap> Yes, well, you're not necessarily using that program. :p
[20:44] <avar> Some_Person: ah, it's already installed, must have been a part of the upgrade I was doing earlier. Sorry.
[20:45] <claptrap> I don't think the window control buttons are SO commonly accessed that they need to be grouped with other common actions.
[20:45] <Some_Person> avar: Remember, you have to log out and then log back in to actually see the changes
[20:45] <barry> is anybody able to help and/or is interested in debug x crashes on nvidia h/w after an upgrade from karmic->lucid?
[20:45] <avar> Some_Person: Yeah. I just didn't spot it being installed:)
[20:45] <Bittarman> barry, I purged and reinstalled the drivers, that fixed it all.
[20:45] <bjwebb> where, oh where is my compiz :(
[20:46] <Bittarman> you just need to clean out all the old nv-glx stuff i think.
[20:46] <busata> alex_mayorga: had any luck with answers? ;-)
[20:46] <Bittarman> *nvidia--glx
[20:46] <alex_mayorga> busata: haven't wrote the question yet :)
[20:46] <barry> Bittarman: so, apt-get remove any old stuff in a chroot, then reinstall... which package?
[20:46] <CalmvsKhaos> is there a DVD .iso of lucid? all im seeing is cd's isos
[20:46] <alex_mayorga> CalmvsKhaos: what do you need a DVD for?
[20:47] <lenios> CalmvsKhaos, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/dvd/current/
[20:47] <busata> alex_mayorga: ah yes, ubuntu community is amazing, but they don't have telepathy yet :(
[20:47] <CalmvsKhaos> less downloading of packages
[20:47] <lenios> 4go iso is available
[20:47] <alex_mayorga> CalmvsKhaos: better to install the base and grow from there, isn't it?
[20:47] <alex_mayorga> lenios: what's on the DVD?
[20:47] <CalmvsKhaos> isnt that a paid site ?
[20:47] <arand> Some_Person: not enough to reload metacity?
[20:48] <CalmvsKhaos> the one you can buy the entire software mirror
[20:48] <lenios> i have no idea what's on the dvd lacking on the cd
[20:48] <alex_mayorga> busata: but they have empathy ;)
[20:48] <lenios> you can check the packages list
[20:48] <busata> ;)
[20:48] <claptrap> Whoa wtf
[20:48] <Some_Person> arand: You can try it, but it didn't work for me for some reason
[20:48] <claptrap> Kopete's incoming messages are coming up in like
[20:48] <claptrap> normal little windows
[20:48] <claptrap> With buttons
[20:48] <claptrap> Not the uh
[20:48] <claptrap> notifications I'm used to.
[20:49] <claptrap> Is glibnotify busted in Lucid?
[20:49] <Bittarman> barry, http://pastie.org/877764
[20:49] <CalmvsKhaos> lenios, thanks for that link :)
[20:49] <Bittarman> those ones
[20:49] <Some_Person> My understanding was that the DVD contains universe too, or maybe I'm mistaken
[20:50] <barry> Bittarman: thanks... trying it now
[20:50] <arand> I've heard localisations...
[20:50] <bjwebb> okay, now this is some freaky shit
[20:50] <bjwebb> everythings pink and green
[20:50] <lenios> i only use cds and add what i need
[20:50] <busata> alex_mayorga: check http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1433116&page=3
[20:51] <claptrap> Does libnotify not work in Lucid? v.v
[20:51] <lenios> claptrap, it does work
[20:52] <claptrap> lenios: Neither Empathy nor Kopete seem to be seeing that. Any idea why?
[20:52] <lenios> i'm using empathy and it does work
[20:52] <claptrap> lenios: Kopete is showing messages in very annoying dialog-box style notifications, Empathy just isn't showing anythign.
[20:53] <bjwebb> hmmm, i get some weird stuff in my xorg log
[20:53] <lenios> claptrap, in empathy, edition > preferences > notifications
[20:54] <busata> anyway, a question in general again, were there any updates today or yesterday? :-p
[20:54] <lenios> maybe kopete is not using libnotify
[20:54] <claptrap> lenios: It was before the upgrade.
[20:54] <lenios> claptrap, ?
[20:54] <lenios> oh
[20:54] <bjwebb> why would i get (EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found) if i am using an intel chipset?
[20:55] <lenios> can't help with kopete
[20:55] <CalmvsKhaos> wow the mirrors are getting really slow now
[20:55] <claptrap> And all notifications except for online/offline are enabled in Empathy.
[20:56] <Bittarman> bjwebb, grep your xorg.conf for "nvidia"
[20:56] <lenios> claptrap, do you have notifications in another program?
[20:56] <Some_Person> I'm getting my normal 80 kB/s for my lucid upgrade
[20:56] <bjwebb> Bittarman: nothing, its all generic
[20:57] <claptrap> lenios: If you're asking if any other program is currently sending notifications, no.
[20:57] <CalmvsKhaos> Some_Person, i normally get around 550kb/s getting 20-50kb/s now
[20:57] <lenios> there must be something wrong with it then, not with empathy
[20:57] <bjsnider> bjwebb, you have an nvidia graphics chip?
[20:57] <bjwebb> bjsnider: nope, an intel one afaik
[20:58] <bjwebb> product: Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller
[20:58] <bjwebb>              vendor: Intel Corporation
[20:58] <claptrap> lenios: Any ideas?
[20:59] <eggster2002>  Hi all, I have just installed Lucid beta 1 on VirtualBox v3.1.4 when I reboot the VM after installing the guest additions all I get is a blank screen. Has any one else come across this?
[20:59] <lenios> claptrap, check your logs
[20:59] <CalmvsKhaos> its buggy in vmware too eggster2002
[20:59] <CalmvsKhaos> my entire PC is locking up with Lucid in VMware
[20:59] <CalmvsKhaos> :(((
[20:59] <eggster2002> :'(
[20:59] <alex_mayorga> busata: thanks on answering our question :)
[21:00] <busata> alex_mayorga: I hope that's it, cause I find it weird that I had no updates for two days
[21:00] <claptrap> lenios: How do I do that for libnotify? Still fairly Ubuntu-nub.
[21:00] <lenios> busata, that's not weird, that's a freeze for the beta release
[21:00] <busata> aha!
[21:01] <busata> thanks :)
[21:01] <BluesKaj> CalmvsKhaos, running an alpha or beta OS in VM is not recommended
[21:01] <CalmvsKhaos> i  sure aint putting it on my system
[21:01] <CalmvsKhaos> i might try live cd
[21:02] <duffydack> entire OS freeze with a vm ??  Odd....
[21:02] <lenios> claptrap, i don't know what to find, but it should be on system logs
[21:02] <CalmvsKhaos> yes odd indeed
[21:02] <lenios> in /var/log, or system logs viewer from admin menu
[21:02] <barry> Bittarman: that did the trick, thanks!  now i've got to re-enable my dual-head and i will be a lucky lynx
[21:02] <Some_Person> Shouldn't an OS be theoretically more stable in a VM?
[21:02] <Bittarman> barry, yw
[21:02] <lenios> why would it be more stable?
[21:03] <Some_Person> The emulated hardware is known and constant
[21:03] <duffydack> I dont know why a vm would freeze your host...very odd.. It shouldnt happen
[21:03] <avar> My volume control disappeared in 10.04 and I can't find it again
[21:03] <Some_Person> avar: indicator applet
[21:04] <avar> ah, thanks:0
[21:04] <rye> BluesKaj, erm, why running anything in VM is not recommended?
[21:05] <claptrap> lenios: I don't see anything for libnotify or notification-daemon... no idea what I'm looking for, though. .-.
[21:05] <CalmvsKhaos> duffydack, if it's using VT-X/EPT or AMD-V/RVI i could see how it could lock up the host
[21:05] <duffydack> CalmvsKhaos, ahh.. of course.
[21:06] <Stargaze> same here avar no volume control, i didn't notice it
[21:06] <avar> fixed by adding the indicator applet
[21:07] <Some_Person> they moved it from the notification applet to the indicator applet
[21:08] <bjwebb> hmmm, why can't i do ctrl+alt+left
[21:10] <lullabud> bjwebb: is one of your keys missing?
[21:10] <bjwebb> lullabud: hmmmm
[21:10] <bjwebb> lullabud: you may have a point
[21:10] <lullabud> i hate it when that happens....
[21:10] <bjwebb> lullabud: the physical key is fine, but it does nothing in x
[21:11] <claptrap> So it seems notifications aren't working at all.
[21:11] <lullabud> wow, that's weird.
[21:11] <lullabud> bjwebb: does it work in cli mode?
[21:11] <lenios> claptrap, fresh install? ubuntu/kubuntu?
[21:11] <BUGabundo> evening
[21:12] <bjwebb> lullabud: yep
[21:12] <claptrap> lenios: Upgraded from Ubuntu 9.10 to 10.04 Beta1.
[21:12] <bjwebb> lullabud: the colemak keymap is messed up, so i used a manual one
[21:12] <bjwebb> so i suspect that's related
[21:15] <avar> These "Social from the Start" features in Ubuntu 10.04 are totally underwhelming. It's just a textfield that goes to Twitter + Gwibber by default
[21:16] <claptrap> I suspect (hope) there'll be more to that.
[21:16] <claptrap> lol
[21:17] <bjwebb> !keycode 100 = Left
[21:17] <bjwebb> now what's up with that
[21:18] <bjwebb> unless something in gnome is catching it...
[21:20] <jo-erlend> are the other flavours of Ubuntu ready for documentation and screencasts?
[21:20] <lenios> it's really social from the start, you can change your statut directly from the memenu, use empathy to be connected on facebook, and even gwibber by default to check on twitter/FB with a good interface
[21:22] <bjwebb> what could be grabbing my keyboard input before the wm?
[21:30] <duffydack> Is the memenu supposed to notify of events in your 'social' accounts, even when you dont have gwibber running, or do you need it running, which negates the need for anything at all social related to be in the memenu...
[21:31] <duffydack> it just becomes a shortcut to gwibber like in the application menu otherwise..
[21:31] <BluesKaj> strange stuff, just upgraded the laptop to lucid , but PA and jack are both listed in sys/settings /media/music even tho they're not installed
[21:31] <duffydack> well Ive not noticed it notify anything, yet..
[21:34] <lenios> i get notifications of contacts getting online
[21:34] <Some_Person> I don't like how gnome-games has been losing games over time
[21:36] <bjwebb> anyone know where keyboard layouts are stored?
[21:38] <lenios> bjwebb, system > prefs > keyboard > second tab
[21:38] <bjwebb> i mean actual location
[21:38] <bjwebb> in fs
[21:38] <lenios> you want to modify one?
[21:39] <bjwebb> kindof
[21:39] <bjwebb> i want to see what's wrong with one
[21:39] <bjwebb> my bottom row is offset
[21:43] <gorthaug> hi
[21:44] <lenios> bjwebb, check in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols
[21:46] <gorthaug> i've a problem after the beta1 installation... it's a clean installation without others OS, ok, the problem it's that in the boot of the machine i don't see any grub menu and i get and kernel panic thay say me that can't mount the root fs in unknow-block(0,0) the / its in the partition /dev/sda1, can anybody help me please?
[21:48] <bjwebb> okay, bug reporting time methinks
[21:48] <bjwebb> or maybe i should try to fix it first
[21:53] <bjwebb> okay, so wth, it looks like someone's gone out of their way to break this
[21:54] <gorthaug> can anybody help me with my problem?
[21:54] <bjwebb> is there an easy way to find out what package a file is in?
[21:56] <yofel> gorthaug: for grub 2 you need to hold left shift pressed to get to the boot menu
[21:56] <yofel> or right, not sure
[21:57] <yofel> gorthaug: and did you specify something like hd0,0 at some point? grub2 uses different numbering, sda1 == hd0,1
[21:58] <yofel> bjwebb: yes
[21:58] <yofel> bjwebb: 'dpkg -S <file>' will search all installed packages
[21:58] <yofel> bjwebb: use apt-file if you want to search the complete repository
[21:59] <bjwebb> yofel: thankyou muchly
[21:59] <gorthaug> yofel, no dont specify nothing... that was the authomatic installation... and i'm seen the grub.cfg with the live cd and in the line for ubuntu 10.04 appear hd(0,1)
[22:00] <yofel> bjwebb: if you need help on bug filing you can ask the bugsquad in #ubuntu-bugs (for now you might find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage helpful)
[22:00] <yofel> gorthaug: hm...
[22:02] <bjwebb> yofel: i've find the package thanks. i've changed the file so it works for me. is there an easy way to get a diff with the packaged version?
[22:02] <bjwebb> oh, wait, i just commented it out, its fine
[22:03] <gorthaug> ok, it's works... the UUID for root was wrong, i set it by device /dev/sda1 and it works
[22:03] <claptrap> Never did get notifications working.
[22:05] <lenios> unlucky
[22:06] <richthegeek> anyone else getting a "Could not write bytes: broken pipe" with Plymouth/nvidia?
[22:08] <yofel> gorthaug: don't forget to file a bug, I'm not sure against which package, but ubiquity (the live disk installer) would be a good start
[22:09] <MarcoPau> hello, my xorg is not loading ati module thou ati_drv.so is there, thus I'm trying to configure it with xorg.conf but it won't read it and it's still using the built in configuration file. do you guys have any hint?
[22:10] <yofel> MarcoPau: what ati driver are you trying to use?
[22:10] <MarcoPau> yofel: open source
[22:11] <yofel> MarcoPau: and what driver is it trying to use at the moment?
[22:11] <Sulle> If you install the beta through wubi.exe, will the grub work?. it did not work for me in the aplha 3.
[22:11] <MarcoPau> yofel: it tries to open ati, but doesn't find the module, thou it's installed. then it goes to vesa
[22:11] <yofel> Sulle: not sure, but don't forget to get the fixed wubi version as described on the release page
[22:12] <yofel> MarcoPau: can you pastebin your xorg log?
[22:12] <MarcoPau> http://pastebin.com/1NanSedR
[22:12] <MarcoPau> yofel: it was already there, have been searching for help the whole day
[22:15] <yofel> MarcoPau: that's odd... are you sure that /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/ati_drv.so exists and isn't corrupted?
[22:23] <MarcoPau> yofel: well, it's there
[22:24] <MarcoPau> yofel: and that should just recall radeon_drv.so
[22:31] <Pirate_Hunter> how stable is lucid now can I use it for hosting a couple of site?
[22:32] <Unksi> Pirate_Hunter: i would never use an unstable environment in a server
[22:33] <guntbert> Pirate_Hunter: in the light that !serverguide still points to 8.04 (deliberately) - listen to Unksi
[22:34] <Pirate_Hunter> the problem is that I really do not wish to wait it is stopping me in many ways, lucid offers good features and would like to setup these servers as soon as possible, hmmm guntbert I know what you mean but how bad is it still?
[22:34] <Okidesu> is there a new version of mplayer for lucid ?
[22:37] <lenios> Okidesu, mplayer Version : 2:1.0~rc3+svn20090426-1ubuntu15
[22:38] <FFForever> is it me or is the startup drive checker broken?
[22:38] <Okidesu> lenios, isn't that the same version for Karmic ?!
[22:39] <lenios> no idea
[22:39] <yofel> Okidesu: almost, karmic is ubuntu10 (10.1 in karmic-updates)
[22:45] <disismt> hi all I am trying to upgrade to 10.04 beta 1 but when I do update-manager -d and click 'upgrade', the relase notes says 'This is still a ALPHA release.'
[22:46] <disismt> shoudn't the release notes say BETA release?
[22:47] <yofel> disismt: they should, it's a known issue, should be fixed in a short while, but lucid is beta now
[22:48] <maxb> This is really weird.... on one of my lucid systems, the gdm theme is all purple. On another it's still the karmic-style spotlight. I've not knowingly done anything different between them
[22:49] <disismt> yofel: , so I should upgrade then? I don't want to end up with the alpha version (I want the beta).
[22:50] <Unksi> disismt: even if you got the alpha, you could get the beta with a simple sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[22:50] <yofel> disismt: you'll end up with the version lucid is at right now, which is beta
[22:50] <maxb> disismt: You realize the distinction is fairly meaningless? there is a continual progression of package updates, beta is merely a declaration that is made at some point
[22:50] <disismt> ok thanks
[22:56] <Pirate_Hunter> for thsoe here that have tested other webserver other than apache, what are your opinion of cherokee and nginx? which do you consider better, lighter, simpler of use?
[22:56] <bj0rn2> installed 10.04 beta 1 on my netbook (compaq mini 311) and it won't boot. I'd like to try to find the cause. anyone care to point me on how to get more diagostics output when booting?
[22:56] <dragon> The lucid download page only lists DVD images. Do we not have CD images anymore? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/beta-1/
[22:57] <yofel> dragon: go to the release page (link in topic) and follow the links there to get the cd images
[22:58] <dragon> yofel: got it. Shouldn't the CD images be listed on the cdimage.ubuntu.com/... pages?
[22:59] <yofel> dragon: I have really no idea how the images are spread on cdimage.ubuntu.com . I know the daily builds are held there, but the official images are usually on releases.ubuntu.com
[22:59] <dragon> alright
[23:04] <Okidesu> update mplayer please :(
[23:04] <LinuxGuy2009> If i install Lucid along side my 9.04 installation do I risk the possibility of 10.04 breaking the ability to boot back into 9.04 if some severe problem may occur with install or bugs or is this a fairly safe method of testing?
[23:05] <JontheEchidna> LinuxGuy2009: should be fairly safe, especially at this point
[23:05] <sebsebseb> LinuxGuy2009: I think a virtual machine is the best way for your to test it
[23:06] <LinuxGuy2009> sebsebseb: Other than just seeing what it looks like, isn't that rather pointless at this point?
[23:06] <LinuxGuy2009> Doesnt it need tested on real world hardware i mean
[23:06] <sebsebseb> LinuxGuy2009: 9.04 uses old Grub
[23:07] <sebsebseb> LinuxGuy2009: put 10.04 on other partition get Grub 2,  and I am wondering if that will  have issues or not when it comes to booting up your 9.04 install
[23:07] <LinuxGuy2009> Oh yeah I forgot all about that. Good call. Ill just run in Vbox on my desktop and do a clean install on my netbook.
[23:08] <CalmvsKhaos> so is the buttons on the left going to stay that way now or do they plan on changing that later?
[23:08] <jhaig> Just trying Lucid for the first time.  At the install it has detected my timezone.  How has it done that?
[23:08] <CalmvsKhaos> prolly by your IP
[23:10] <koltroll> Heya guys. I've got a asus 1000he, installed the beta from live cd. When in live mode the wirless worked great. But after install I can't connect to my WPA2 secured home network. Any thoughts on this?
[23:10] <koltroll> When trying out the lucid NBR live cd it didn't work in live mode.
[23:11] <sirninja> Whenever I close the lid of my laptop and reopen it, it logs me out instead of suspending? How do I fix this?
[23:14] <LADmaticCA> anyway to get advanced options for running a live cd? I can't get beta 1 live cd to work with my ati laptop
[23:22] <bj0rn2> I can't seem to get to the grub boot menu in 10.04 beta1.. it just goes straight into booting. I want to boot in recovery mode. anyone know how to do that?
[23:22] <CosmiChaos> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/541749
[23:22] <arand> bj0rn2: shift not working?
[23:22] <lullabud> bj0rn2: you know, i had a problem with grub too.  during upgrade it asked me if i wanted to install grub, but it wouldn't let me answer "yes"
[23:22] <Milos_SD> bj0rn2, hold SHIFT
[23:23] <bj0rn2> ah! shift does the trick :) (not used to that in prev. versions..)
[23:26] <yofel> bj0rn2: grub used Esc to get to the menu, grub2 uses shift
[23:29] <bj0rn2> ouch.. I get freezes at b43-pci-bridge module with kernel 2.6.32 didn't expect that :( should be fixed according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/479597 :/
[23:32] <CalmvsKhaos> sure seems quiet in here today, especially given that the beta was released today :)
[23:32] <koliz> it's kinda strange them "close-the-window"-buttons. Before they used to be at the right. Now they are at the left, like in mac os x. But they have switched the order compared to mac os x, putting the close-button to the far right.
[23:37] <jhaig> koliz: Yes, moving the buttons is a little confusing.
[23:37] <koliz> jhaig, is it possible for me to put the close-button to the left ? :)
[23:37] <koliz> by changing the theme or so?
[23:37] <jhaig> I'm sure it is possible, but I don't know how.
[23:37] <yofel> koliz: sure, it's a gconf key
[23:38] <yofel> lemme search the backlog...
[23:38] <koliz> oh that sounds great! Cause since I'm coming from os x that would really make it easy for me not having to think at all :)
[23:38] <Volkodav> http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/how-i-do/move-buttons-to-right-side
[23:38] <jhaig> koliz: I'm in the same situation as you - just looking at Lucid to see what it is like.
[23:39] <yofel> Volkodav was faster ^^
[23:39] <koliz> jhaig, it's great I tell you, other than those buttons. I switched to ubuntu at work a couple of months ago. Working out just fine really
[23:39] <Volkodav> they ask it 10 times a day every day
[23:39] <koliz> Volkodav, yofel, thanks alot
[23:39] <Volkodav> np
[23:41] <sirninja> Whenever my laptop wakes from suspend, it shows the login screen instead of what I had opened before. How do I fix this?
[23:44] <yofel> sirninja: should be somewhere in the power manager or screensaver settings (lock screen) (or does it completely log you out?)
[23:45] <sirninja> yofel: it completely logs me out
[23:45] <yofel> sounds like a bug in gdm then
[23:45] <kmsdbh_> hi
[23:46] <sirninja> yofel: has this already been reported as a bug?
[23:46] <yofel> sirninja: check on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm if it has been reported, if not report a bug with 'ubuntu-bug gdm'
[23:47] <yofel> sirninja: you are using gnome
[23:47] <yofel> ?
[23:47] <sirninja> yofel: yes
[23:47] <yofel> ok
[23:47] <BugsCrash> hi ,  Somebody help me about gma 500 on ubuntu 10.0.4 (acer 751/h) please (driver)
[23:47] <DasEi> BugsCrash: gma 500, is this a matrox card ?
[23:47] <yofel> BugsCrash: I don't know if the poulsbo chips have a driver
[23:48] <yofel> BugsCrash: try asking in #ubuntu-x
[23:48] <sirninja> yofel: in karmic I had to add "noapic" to my grub boot options for suspend to work. I tried that in lucid too, but it didn't work.
[23:48] <BugsCrash> poulsbo work on 9.04
[23:49] <yofel> BugsCrash: I know, but the driver is a mess and there isn't a driver available that works for the lucid X server afaik
[23:49] <kmsdbh_> Xorg just restart after I log into kubuntu karmic, and Xorg.0.log shows: PreInit returned NULL for ""Macintosh mouse button emulation""
[23:49] <yofel> BugsCrash: I might be wrong, the X team in #ubuntu-x will know more
 tanks , im try it
[23:50] <yofel> kmsdbh_: this channel is for Lucid Lynx (10.04) support, kubuntu karmic support is in #kubuntu
[23:50] <kmsdbh_> sorry, is lucid
[23:50] <yofel> ok, was wondering since this sounds vaguely familiar
[23:50] <Sarvatt> kmsdbh_: that message is harmless and means nothing, has nothing to do with whatever problem you're having
[23:50] <kmsdbh_> I upgraded my machine yesterday
[23:51] <kmsdbh_> ok, gonna past the log
[23:51] <kmsdbh_> *paste
[23:51] <kmsdbh_> http://pastebin.com/RwUwd1dp
[23:52] <kmsdbh_> really, the last line after the restart says "(II) AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch"
[23:53] <kmsdbh_> all the lines after line 867 are because of the reboot
[23:53] <FullPolarFox1981> all the lines after line 867 are because of the reboot
[23:53] <FullPolarFox1981> Hi-hihihihihih
[23:54] <CalmvsKhaos> FullPolarFox1981, ?
[23:54] <FullPolarFox1981> CalmvsKhaos Calm down)))
[23:54] <FullPolarFox1981> I am a Khaos
[23:55] <FullPolarFox1981> Who are here?
[23:55] <FullPolarFox1981> Nobody?
[23:55] <FullPolarFox1981> Coll)))
[23:55] <FullPolarFox1981> Cool)))
[23:56] <FullPolarFox1981> Wgat a bored channel
[23:56] <DasEi> FullPolarFox1981: you managed to get kicked and banned from debian, ubunut. ubuntu-offtopic, keep in mind you still need a way to reach any ops, if you go on like this
[23:57] <FullPolarFox1981> DasEi The Egg, please, back off :)
[23:57] <Sarvatt> kmsdbh_: why do you have gfxpayload=true in your kernel cmdline? nothing really interesting in that xorg log though, it's probably in dmesg if you wouldn't mind doing a dmesg | pastebinit
[23:57] <bazhang> FullPolarFox1981, please stay on topic
[23:57] <DasEi> FullPolarFox1981: np, I'll ignore you
[23:58] <FullPolarFox1981> DasEi Was ist np?
[23:58] <kmsdbh_> Sarvatt: there's nothing in dmesg
[23:58] <rww> FullPolarFox1981: np stands for No Problem
[23:58] <FullPolarFox1981> bazhang , please back off in ubuntu-offtopic
[23:58] <kmsdbh_> *nothing about Xorg
[23:59] <FullPolarFox1981> rww Thanks you! You are my hero!
[23:59] <bazhang> FullPolarFox1981, this is not a chat channel.
[23:59] <kmsdbh_> hmm gonna paste dmesg