[20:03] <rudi> hello!
[20:03] <Red_HamsterX> Hi.
[20:04] <Daker> back
[20:04] <semioticrobotic> Hi all
[20:05] <rudi> semiotrobotic :P hello
[20:05] <rudi> *argh
[20:05] <rudi> spelt it wrong
[20:05] <semioticrobotic> i really should have chosen a better nick :)
[20:06] <Red_HamsterX> rudi, tab-completion. It helps. =P
[20:06] <semioticrobotic> in this case, better = easier to spell
[20:06] <rudi> oooh w00t, irssi has tab completion
[20:06] <rudi> thanks Red_HamsterX
[20:06] <dutchie> ofc it does
[20:07] <rudi> :( I didn't know that...
[20:07] <rudi> but now I do :D
[20:07] <nisshh> irssi is awesome!
[20:07] <nisshh> best irc client
[20:08] <rudi> nisshh: I agree
[20:08] <rudi> jaminday: w00t :)
[20:10]  * humphreybc stumbles into room
[20:10] <rudi> humphreybc: :) welcome welcome welcome
[20:10] <humphreybc> blah
[20:10] <humphreybc> i just woke up literally less than a minute ago
[20:10] <humphreybc> my alarm didn't go off for some reason
[20:11] <humphreybc> somehow i naturally instinctively knew to get up
[20:11] <rudi> humphreybc: what dedication!
[20:11] <humphreybc> who's here?
[20:11] <nisshh> hey look whos up
[20:11]  * dutchie is doing 3 things at once
[20:11] <dutchie> (as usual)
[20:11] <semioticrobotic> the project's rhythms and your circadian rhythms are merging
[20:11] <humphreybc> haha
[20:12]  * rudi raises hand
[20:12] <humphreybc> godbyk here?
[20:12]  * nisshh shakes head
[20:12] <jaminday> humphreybc: welcome - i was just having a whinge about you sleeping in !
[20:12] <humphreybc> everyone have a geez at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings
[20:12] <semioticrobotic> will be late
[20:12] <titeuf_87> he would get here later
[20:12] <Red_HamsterX> I'm here, but I'll need to go get groceries in a few minutes.
[20:12] <humphreybc> that's okay
[20:12] <Red_HamsterX> (Maybe)
[20:12] <humphreybc> k jamin could you kick the meeting off and start talking about freezes, i'll be back in a sec (need coffee)
[20:12] <humphreybc> #startmeeting
[20:12] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:12. The chair is humphreybc.
[20:12] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[20:13] <jaminday> Alright
[20:13] <humphreybc> [TOPIC] Freezes/Important dates upcoming
[20:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Freezes/Important dates upcoming
[20:13] <jaminday> Well as everyone is aware we are almost at writing freeze
[20:13] <rudi> yep
[20:13] <jaminday> and still a bit of work to do
[20:13] <semioticrobotic> indeed
[20:13] <jaminday> humphreybc is planning to get a bunch of testers to start going over the manual
[20:14] <jaminday> and reporting bugs with our new form
[20:14]  * jaminday is trying to dig out the link
[20:14] <jaminday> man my internet is super slow for some reason this morning
[20:14] <nisshh> jaminday: how do we (as writers) know if a bug has been submitted for our chapter?
[20:14] <jaminday> i think its still asleep as well
[20:15] <jaminday> hmm good question
[20:15] <dutchie> bug mail?
[20:15] <nisshh> where does the form data go?
[20:15] <jaminday> we are still working on the form (still waiting for my net)
[20:15] <dutchie> it ends up in a google spreadsheet aiui
[20:15] <nisshh> ok, and how can we get that spreadsheet?
[20:16] <nisshh> is it on the net?
[20:16] <dutchie> somewhere ;)
[20:16] <nisshh> ok cool
[20:16] <jaminday> yep hang on a tick
[20:16] <jaminday> http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc6MA
[20:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc6MA
[20:17] <jaminday> So anyway, our plan is to have about 3-4 people start working through with a fine tooth comb over the next week and a bit
[20:17] <rudi> hmmm
[20:17] <jaminday> I will be one of those, and so will humphreybc
[20:17] <rudi> sounds good
[20:17] <humphreybc> okkau
[20:17] <jaminday> and here's humphreybc
[20:17] <humphreybc> so ya'll know about the plan for omgubuntu readers to test it?
[20:18] <nisshh> sort of
[20:18] <rudi> sort of too
[20:18] <rudi> not clued up on exactly how its gonna work
[20:18] <jaminday> http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/ccc?key=0AiussLy2MfjjdHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc&hl=en@
[20:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/ccc?key=0AiussLy2MfjjdHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc&hl=en@
[20:18] <humphreybc> basically come Monday I'll write up a post on omg asking for testers, direct link will be on the blog post for them to download etc
[20:18] <jaminday> that's the spreadsheet for the form
[20:18] <humphreybc> i'll point them to the form
[20:19] <humphreybc> testing/bug reporting by them will go on for a week (22 - 29th March) and during that time we'll try to fix bugs as they are reported
[20:19] <semioticrobotic> nice ... i use Google Docs forms for a few projects, and they work quite well
[20:19] <nisshh> jaminday: is my google apps login the same as my gmail account login?
[20:19] <humphreybc> on Wednesday next week I'll give the manual to a few upstanding community members to test as well
[20:19] <humphreybc> nisshh: yup
[20:19] <semioticrobotic> nisshh: typically, yes, but not always
[20:19] <jaminday> nisshh: yeah i think so
[20:19] <nisshh> ok thanks
[20:19] <jaminday> try it anyway
[20:19] <rudi> nisshh: I would imagine so
[20:20] <reventon_> i'm editing chapter 7, when should i have final changes in by
[20:20] <jaminday> reventon_: the sooner the better
[20:20] <humphreybc> so on the 29th we'll *close* testing and that gives us two days before the 31st to fix up anything before writing freeze
[20:20] <humphreybc> the writing freeze is going to be strictly enforced, we're not going to pull a Canonical here and break it
[20:20] <dutchie> ...low
[20:20] <jaminday> everyone keep editing your chapters, but as our small team of 'supereditors' (as in superuser, not superman) comes through we will make the final call about what stays and what goes for this release
[20:20]  * semioticrobotic laughs
[20:20] <humphreybc> :)
[20:21] <humphreybc> yup
[20:21] <rudi> haha nice!
[20:21] <humphreybc> so that's cool
[20:21] <reventon_> so the 1st is the writing freeze?
[20:21] <humphreybc> 31st
[20:21] <nisshh> that google apps login requires me to have a @ubuntu-manual.org email address
[20:21] <semioticrobotic> jaminday: gotcha
[20:21] <reventon_> right
[20:21] <jaminday> reventon_: yep
[20:21] <humphreybc> 1st is when we start screenshotting like crazy people
[20:21] <dutchie> nisshh: ask godbyk-android about that
[20:21] <nisshh> ok thanks
[20:21] <humphreybc> righto
[20:21] <dutchie> I understand Quickshot is nearly ready too?
[20:22] <humphreybc> so that's that, any questions on the important dates?
[20:22] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: Quickshot?
[20:22] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc: all clear
[20:22] <humphreybc> (Red_HamsterX might have gone grocery shopping)
[20:22] <Red_HamsterX> titeuf_87 is more current on what's happening with Quickshot's UI stuff than I am, and that's what will need to be worked on over the next week.
[20:22] <c7p> so i guess after 1st April we won't face the problem of loss of translation, right?
[20:23] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: do you think it'll be functionally ready by the 1st April?
[20:23] <Red_HamsterX> Between the two of us, we have most of the process flow working. We just need to couple everything, plug a few holes, and write scripts.
[20:23] <titeuf_87> quickshot should be almost ready now to be useable to take screenshots
[20:23] <rudi> awesome
[20:23]  * humphreybc punches the air
[20:23] <jaminday> nisshh: you could at least see the form without a google apps login right
[20:23] <humphreybc> yeah!
[20:23] <humphreybc> c7p: that's correct
[20:23] <nisshh> yes, i need a google apps login to view the spreadsheet
[20:23] <nisshh> not the form
[20:23] <c7p> nice
[20:23] <humphreybc> how are we going to package Quickshot?
[20:24] <humphreybc> can we make some nice debs?
[20:24] <godbyk> Okay, I'm here.
[20:24] <humphreybc> hi Kevin
[20:24] <Red_HamsterX> By tomorrow, we should have a structure to let us start automating the process of launching apps and stuff.
[20:24] <dutchie> humphreybc: quickly does that
[20:24] <humphreybc> dutchie: oh fantastic
[20:24] <dutchie> (sort of the point of quickly really)
[20:24] <titeuf_87> quickly let us make a ppa for it so installation will be simple
[20:24] <Red_HamsterX> I can dedicate a server to the project for the rush.
[20:24] <humphreybc> fantastic
[20:24] <humphreybc> a PPA sounds like a plan
[20:24] <jaminday> godbyk: welcome
[20:24] <Red_HamsterX> (I've got 600GB/month of traffic on it, so it should be fine)
[20:24]  * semioticrobotic gapes
[20:24] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX, titeuf_87, just whatever you need to do to get it ready and usable by the 1st April
[20:24] <Red_HamsterX> (Not my home server, which we're using for testing)
[20:25] <dutchie> Red_HamsterX: heh, that 10x my xfer allowance
[20:25] <dutchie> that's*
[20:25] <rudi> p.s the wiki is looking really slick
[20:25] <humphreybc> rudi: thanks!
[20:25]  * rudi thumbs up
[20:25] <humphreybc> okay so that's cool
[20:25]  * nisshh agrees with rudi
[20:25] <humphreybc> oh i should probably change the topic
[20:25] <nisshh> meh
[20:25] <humphreybc> [TOPIC] Screenshots
[20:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Screenshots
[20:26] <humphreybc> Alright so Quickshot is going good
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> Probably, yeah.
[20:26] <humphreybc> that's awesome
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> Yep.
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> Not usable yet, but we should be able to make the deadline with something that'll work.
[20:26] <humphreybc> godbyk, the screenshots folder in the main branch, is this just a placeholder for testing english ones?
[20:26] <godbyk> The server I'm hosting ubuntu-manual.org on allegedly has unlimited bandwidth.  Guess we could find out. :)
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> Well, it's usable, but it's hardcoded usable.
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> Bbreak that and we're almost done.
[20:26] <godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, I just tossed that in there to test things.
[20:26] <Red_HamsterX> Break the hardcoding, I mean.
[20:26] <humphreybc> godbyk cool
[20:27] <humphreybc> so Red_HamsterX is the plan to store screenshots on your server?
[20:27] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk, I'll write a proper setup guide/walk you through it when we're ready, then.
[20:27] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: awesome.
[20:27] <Red_HamsterX> I'm offering it as a backup, in case we hit the deadline and have to move forward with a development server.
[20:27] <humphreybc> kk neat
[20:27] <humphreybc> so we're not hosting screenshots in an lp branch anymore?
[20:27] <godbyk> If we need to point to a different folder or organize the screenshots in another way, I can update the code to do that.
[20:27]  * dutchie suggests screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org
[20:28] <Red_HamsterX> The final screenshots will still be in Bazaar, as per ubuntujenkins' plans.
[20:28] <dutchie> CNAMEd or whatever
[20:28] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: cool
[20:28] <Red_HamsterX> The temporary ones will be in a world-readable HTTP location.
[20:28] <humphreybc> neat
[20:28] <Red_HamsterX> I'll create 'ubuntu-manual.uguu.ca' this week.
[20:28] <humphreybc> So from the manual side, we need to make sure we have our list ready to go with good descriptions by the 1st
[20:28] <Red_HamsterX> Since that's a much cleaner name than what we're using for development now.
[20:29] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah, the list and descriptions are critical.
[20:29] <humphreybc> okay, I think they're pretty much done
[20:29] <Red_HamsterX> Working on titeuf_87's idea, I've started designing a system to store all of that on the server and let the client pull it as needed.
[20:29]  * semioticrobotic nods
[20:29] <humphreybc> but Jamin and I will be going through and adding more detail to descriptions and cleaning stuff up as we go
[20:29] <Red_HamsterX> So we can add a last-minute screenshot easily.
[20:29] <humphreybc> Bryan, can you help Jamin and I do some heavy editing?
[20:29] <titeuf_87> ubuntujenkins had a list already, although I don't know how complete it is
[20:29] <rudi> sounds good
[20:30] <semioticrobotic> I forget -- what's our filesize limit?
[20:30] <humphreybc> for the manual?
[20:30] <semioticrobotic> yeah
[20:30] <dutchie> as small as possible I think
[20:30] <nisshh> yep
[20:30] <humphreybc> dutchie: +1
[20:30] <semioticrobotic> ok
[20:30] <humphreybc> just however low we can go
[20:30] <humphreybc> "how low can you go"
[20:30] <Red_HamsterX> q85 JPEG looks decent in a PDF.
[20:30] <humphreybc> so looking at screenshots.log, we have 43 screenshots currently?
[20:31] <nisshh> looks like it
[20:31] <humphreybc> I think we're doing PNGs
[20:31] <godbyk> well, plus the ones that are already in there.
[20:31] <humphreybc> 1024x768 PNGs right?
[20:31] <Red_HamsterX> For the distributed PDFs?
[20:31] <godbyk> 1024x768 PNGs, yeah.
[20:31] <humphreybc> Yep
[20:31] <rudi> :)
[20:31] <Red_HamsterX> Wow. That'll be big.
[20:31] <humphreybc> Howcome we're using PNGs again?
[20:31] <Red_HamsterX> I figured it was just PNG for archival.
[20:32] <Red_HamsterX> And exporting as JPEG.
[20:32] <godbyk> PNGs are supposed to have a nicer compression algorithm than JPEG for the types of images we have.
[20:32] <humphreybc> oh right maybe they become JPEGs when it's built?
[20:32] <godbyk> Solid blocks of color get compressed big-time with PNG.
[20:32] <Red_HamsterX> Indexed PNGs, yes.
[20:32] <reventon_> for screenshots, are they all going to be lucid lynx?
[20:32] <godbyk> With jpeg, you get nasty artifacts.
[20:32] <humphreybc> reventon_: yup
[20:32] <reventon_> k just checking
[20:32] <humphreybc> okay so we're sticking with PNGs?
[20:32] <Red_HamsterX> I suppose we could batch-index the English screencaps and see what the result looks like.
[20:33] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: sure
[20:33] <humphreybc> Quality > size right now
[20:33] <humphreybc> size is still important
[20:33] <dutchie> agreed
[20:33] <godbyk> Hmm.. someone moved the website out from under me.
[20:33] <humphreybc> but because we don't have to worry about getting this edition on the CD so much, size can wait till next release
[20:33] <Red_HamsterX> Also agreed.
[20:33] <humphreybc> godbyk that was Daker
[20:33] <humphreybc> it's now in lp:ubuntu-manual-website
[20:33] <humphreybc> he set up a new project for translations
[20:34] <humphreybc> neat
[20:34] <humphreybc> also I was talking to Mark last night
[20:34] <godbyk> Right, but since it's auto-updated on the server, it killed the countdown page and whatnot, too.
[20:34] <humphreybc> godbyk oh that sucks. Oh well.
[20:34] <godbyk> remind me to fix it later.
[20:34]  * godbyk is back on topic now.
[20:34] <humphreybc> will do
[20:34] <humphreybc> kk so I was talking to Mark last night
[20:34] <Red_HamsterX> And now I must be off. titeuf_87, I'll get the dictionary stuff working when I get back, so you'll have functions to play with tomorrow.
[20:35] <titeuf_87> ok Red_HamsterX, take care
[20:35] <humphreybc> Basically I said to him we have two options for screenshotting, 1) Wait till very late in the cycle to capture screenshots when we know where the window controls will be for final, or 2) Start screenshotting soon and just guess where they'll be
[20:35] <humphreybc> I want that guess to be an educated guess
[20:35] <humphreybc> so I asked him where they'll most likely be for final
[20:35] <humphreybc> and he said they'll probably stay on the left
[20:36] <humphreybc> so that's what we're going to do, on the 1st of April we're going to start taking screenshots of Lucid with the buttons on the left
[20:36] <humphreybc> if they change back to the right for final, well... that sucks
[20:36] <Daker> humphreybc, that's not me
[20:36] <humphreybc> Daker: did you not move the website out of main
[20:36] <humphreybc> ?
[20:36] <rudi> how long will it take to capture all these screenies? estimated?
[20:36] <Daker> i didn't remove anything
[20:36] <jaminday> humphreybc: we could always update screenshots after release if necessary and release a revision
[20:37] <humphreybc> jaminday: ah yes we could
[20:37] <jaminday> as a last resort
[20:37] <humphreybc> or even just replace all the english ones after RC if the buttons move back to the right
[20:37] <jaminday> yep
[20:37] <nisshh> but we should not have to, it may well confuse the crap out of new users trying to understand the manual
[20:37] <humphreybc> at 2000 screenshots as a working target, we would need to capture 68 a day to get all of them done in time for Lucid final
[20:37] <nisshh> if we release a revision half way through
[20:38] <rudi> humphreybc: I see, it's quite a process :O
[20:38] <humphreybc> nisshh: true, but we may have to do that. I think they'll stay on the left, so we should be okay
[20:38] <humphreybc> rudi: indeed
[20:38] <godbyk> I think we can safely prioritize based on the languages that have the most translations at that point.
[20:38] <humphreybc> godbyk: +1
[20:38] <rudi> agreed
[20:38] <reventon_> he alluded to them contemplating added new features on the right, so i doubt they'll move them from the left anytime soon
[20:39] <humphreybc> we'll take the top 20 translations and work down from there
[20:39] <nisshh> +1 too
[20:39] <humphreybc> if we get all 20 of those done, we can look at the other 30
[20:39] <rudi> reventon_: I agree,
[20:39] <humphreybc> if not, the other 30 get english screenshots
[20:39] <humphreybc> cool
[20:40] <humphreybc> so the next two items are about cutting things and filing bugs
[20:40] <rudi> ah
[20:40] <humphreybc> the cutting things thing applies to myself, Jamin and Bryan, and we've pretty much already discussed that
[20:40] <jaminday> yep
[20:40]  * semioticrobotic nods
[20:40] <nisshh> ok
[20:40] <humphreybc> so basically as we edit the manual anything that is "beyond rescue" we cut
[20:40]  * rudi nods
[20:40] <jaminday> is Bryan here?
[20:40] <humphreybc> yep, semioticrobotic
[20:40]  * semioticrobotic raises hand
[20:40] <jaminday> ah hehe sorry
[20:41] <semioticrobotic> no problem :)
[20:41] <humphreybc> I would rather have a quality manual with less pages than a crap manual with more pages
[20:41] <jaminday> i couldn't remember your irc name
[20:41] <humphreybc> so, in saying that, anything that gets cut or anything that is not there in the first place, we need to add links to the community docs
[20:41] <jaminday> semioticrobotic: are you happy to help out with that?
[20:41] <humphreybc> anything we can't cover on our own needs to be linked to the online wiki docs until we get round to covering it for 10.10
[20:41] <rudi> humphreybc: I concur
[20:42] <humphreybc> godbyk I wonder if it's worth adding in a bug type "Reference lacking"
[20:42] <jaminday> semioticrobotic:  it will probably be about 3 chapters each of really ruthless culling
[20:42] <semioticrobotic> no, I don't mind helping at all
[20:42] <humphreybc> We want to have references and links and stuff all over the place
[20:42] <jaminday> some of us may not make it out alive
[20:42] <nisshh> jaminday: hehe
[20:42] <godbyk> humphreybc: I could add one for 'hey, this should be in the manual and isn't'
[20:42] <godbyk> we could use that to collect suggestions for the next edition, too.
[20:43] <humphreybc> that way we will cover our ass if someone says "OH but you didn't talk about configuring the X server!!111!" and also we'll keep the docs team happy by sending people to their official docs
[20:43] <reventon_> i hope you'll comment on whatever you're cutting
[20:43] <humphreybc> godbyk, yeah that sounds good
[20:43] <semioticrobotic> jaminday: I can be ruthless.  No sweat :)
[20:43] <thorwil> just to be sure: screenshots will be taken in full-color, non-indexed PNG format!?
[20:43] <rudi> hmmmm
[20:43] <humphreybc> although we'll get some pretty outlandish suggestions if the UF thread survey was anything to go by
[20:43] <jaminday> reventon_: yep we will - most of what is cut will be put in for the next release
[20:43] <reventon_> ok cool
[20:44] <jaminday> so it's not that the content isnt important or valuable, just that there won't be enough time to polish it
[20:44] <humphreybc> thorwil: I think that's the plan, although Red_HamsterX and titeuf_87 are going to look into indexing. I don't know what indexing is in images
[20:44] <humphreybc> yup
[20:44] <humphreybc> jaminday, semioticrobotic, instead of actually deleting stuff we should just comment it out
[20:44] <humphreybc> then at least we have it there for the future to work off as a base
[20:45] <jaminday> humphreybc: agreed
[20:45] <dutchie> latex provides the comment environment
[20:45] <rudi> agreed
[20:45] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc: okay -- actually, that was my next question: Where to put the stuff that's culled?
[20:45] <thorwil> humphreybc: indexing means building a color table for a single image (or set of images). it's lossy and very bad for gradients
[20:45] <dutchie> or godbyk could hack something to include it on "debug builds"
[20:45] <jaminday> semioticrobotic: yeah just leave it in
[20:45] <humphreybc> thorwil: do we have many gradients in our screenshots though?
[20:45] <dutchie> g21
[20:45] <dutchie> bah
[20:45] <thorwil> humphreybc: yes. all over the place
[20:45] <jaminday> you can use \begin{comment} and \end{comment} to wrap around it
[20:45] <humphreybc> thorwil: okay then
[20:46] <humphreybc> i guess we won't be indexing them :)
[20:46] <semioticrobotic> jaminday: sounds good to me.  shoot me a message with the chapters you'd like me to tackle
[20:46] <humphreybc> semioticrobotic: you going to be around today?
[20:46] <jaminday> semioticrobotic: ok - i will prob stick with prologue and chaps 1, 2 and 3.
[20:46] <thorwil> Red_HamsterX, titeuf_87 please make sure losless PNG screenshots are taken/retained. and if do use indexed png in the manual, make sure there's no additional JPGing
[20:46] <humphreybc> I was thinking I could start at chapter 9, work backwards, someone else starts at the prologue and works forwards
[20:46] <godbyk> dutchie: I can.  Remind me later.
[20:46] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc: for another fifteen minutes, yes.  I'll be checking email later tonight (it's early evening in my part of the States)
[20:47] <jaminday> semioticrobotic: would you prefer middle 3 or end 3?
[20:47] <jaminday> humphreybc: ah sorry didn't see that
[20:47] <humphreybc> jaminday: ah that's a good way of doing it
[20:47] <semioticrobotic> jaminday: end 3, since that's where I'm allocated as ditor
[20:47] <semioticrobotic> er, editor
[20:47] <humphreybc> okay
[20:47] <humphreybc> so jamin takes prologue/1 and 2
[20:47] <jaminday> i can do 3 as well
[20:47] <humphreybc> kk
[20:47] <jaminday> humphreybc: you take middle 3?
[20:47] <humphreybc> jamin does prologue, 1, 2 and 3
[20:47] <humphreybc> I'll do 4, 5, 6
[20:48] <humphreybc> Bryan can tackle 7 8 and 9
[20:48] <semioticrobotic> easy peasy
[20:48] <jaminday> sounds good
[20:48]  * nisshh says he will supervise
[20:48] <jaminday> hehe
[20:48] <humphreybc> If we can get most of the editing out of the way by Tuesday then that would be awesome
[20:48] <reventon_> when are guys going to start the superedit
[20:48] <reventon_> ah
[20:48] <humphreybc> most of the "heavy" editing
[20:48] <jaminday> this is not meant to be exclusive, but we figure having a small team doing the superediting will lend itself to consistency etc
[20:49] <humphreybc> yup
[20:49] <rudi> agreed
[20:49] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc: I'll do my best to meet that deadline
[20:49] <reventon_> i just want to make sure i get my edits in before you guys do
[20:49] <humphreybc> semioticrobotic: awesoem
[20:49] <humphreybc> sweet as
[20:49] <jaminday> reventon_: yeah no problem
[20:49] <jaminday> which chapter you doing again?
[20:49] <reventon_> 7
[20:49] <semioticrobotic> humphreybc: might need a chunk of Tuesday to finish
[20:49] <humphreybc> okay so that's all good. now, for those of you who aren't doing anything, start reading :)
[20:49] <reventon_> security
[20:49] <jaminday> ok
[20:49] <humphreybc> read and file bugs :P
[20:49] <semioticrobotic> :)
[20:49] <humphreybc> probably best to use the form
[20:50] <jaminday> ill put humphreybc on a leash to give you a chance
[20:50] <humphreybc> lol
[20:50] <reventon_> lol
[20:50] <semioticrobotic> lol
[20:50] <humphreybc> and when you read, start from the prologue and put your new user shoes on
[20:50] <humphreybc> so nisshh, dutchie, you guys can start reading :P
[20:50] <dutchie> will do
[20:50]  * dutchie puts on his pedant hat
[20:51] <humphreybc> godbyk have we got a good hard link for the form yet?
[20:51] <jaminday> also as i was saying earlier, if anyone notices their favourite paragraph they spent hours of writing is suddenly missing from the manual, don't fret
[20:51] <humphreybc> ubuntu-manual.org/bugs ?
[20:51] <godbyk> humphreybc: not yet.
[20:51] <godbyk> After I get the site fixed, I'll put the form there.
[20:51] <jaminday> it will probably reappear for the next release
[20:51] <humphreybc> godbyk cool, could you get that done in the next couple of hours? :)
[20:51] <godbyk> Yep.
[20:51] <humphreybc> I'm going to start drafting the OMG post
[20:51] <godbyk> As soon as you stop talking so much.  ;-)
[20:51] <humphreybc> then I'll run it by you guys before I post it
[20:51] <humphreybc> hahaha
[20:51] <godbyk> cool
[20:52] <humphreybc> okay so that's that... last thing on the agenda
[20:52] <humphreybc> [TOPIC] Website
[20:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  Website
[20:52] <jaminday> wow fastest meeting ever
[20:52] <humphreybc> Daker, you still here
[20:52] <humphreybc> ?
[20:52] <nisshh> meh
[20:52] <humphreybc> jaminday: might be under an hour for once!
[20:52]  * semioticrobotic cheers
[20:52] <jaminday> hehe
[20:52] <nisshh> no, never under an hour
[20:52]  * godbyk marvels
[20:52] <humphreybc> alright so basically the website is going pretty good
[20:52] <nisshh> hehe
[20:52]  * rudi gasps
[20:52] <humphreybc> it needs translations at some point
[20:53] <humphreybc> and also the text needs to be finalized, so i'll do that this week sometime
[20:53] <dutchie> I can speak to Daker about that at some point too
[20:53] <humphreybc> I suggested to Daker to have a nice javascript/flash type thing where the main image on the front page fades between about 4 images
[20:53] <humphreybc> like http://www.kde.org
[20:54] <godbyk> there some javascript that was used on the do.davebsd.org site (or wherever gnome do's site is) to do just that.
[20:54] <godbyk> we can snag it.
[20:54] <humphreybc> for this release, the four images can be the title page and then three pages from the manual to give a "preview"
[20:54] <humphreybc> godbyk, awesome sounds good
[20:54] <humphreybc> in the future, each image will be title pages of each different version we release
[20:54] <humphreybc> ie, Kubuntu Manual, Xubuntu Manual etc etc
[20:54] <semioticrobotic> neat
[20:54] <humphreybc> so we'll have a super cool fading animation through our publications
[20:55] <humphreybc> apart from that, I don't think anything else needs to be changed about the website from the mockups?
[20:55] <humphreybc> anyone else have any suggestions for stuff to add/remove from the site for this release?
[20:55] <rudi> sounds awesome
[20:55] <semioticrobotic> Hate to run, everyone, but I can't be late for a dinner date quickly approaching.
[20:55] <humphreybc> semioticrobotic: Oooo fair enough, we won't hold you back!
[20:55] <jaminday> no probs, have fun semioticrobotic
[20:56] <semioticrobotic> nice to meet with you all ... looking forward to the fast-paced coming week
[20:56] <humphreybc> oh btw
[20:56] <semioticrobotic> take care
[20:56] <humphreybc> heh
[20:56] <humphreybc> see ya!
[20:56] <humphreybc> also, are we going to translate the credits?
[20:56]  * semioticrobotic waves
[20:56] <humphreybc> ie, the titles of people/section headers?
[20:56] <godbyk> humphreybc: I don't see why not.
[20:56] <humphreybc> because if we are, they'll have to be confirmed before writing freeze
[20:56] <godbyk> They should be getting translated with the rest of the manual.
[20:56] <humphreybc> mmk so this week I have to confirm the titles of each person basically
[20:57] <godbyk> I am going to pretty up the credits section at some point, though.
[20:57] <jaminday> I will be Lord Jamin
[20:57] <humphreybc> we'll do the final credits around RC
[20:57] <humphreybc> hahaha
[20:57] <thorwil> humphreybc: if/once all else is through, i could throw in something
[20:57] <nisshh> i will be overlord nisshh
[20:57] <jaminday> hehe
[20:57] <humphreybc> okay so I have a rough idea how the credits would work
[20:57] <rudi> haha
[20:58] <humphreybc> I'm thinking a section for the key people, their names and then their roles beside
[20:58] <rudi> sounds like a good plan
[20:58] <humphreybc> and then underneath that we have something like Special Thanks where everyone else goes, and then Translators
[20:58] <humphreybc> either that or keep it similar to how it is now
[20:58] <humphreybc> with sections for each "area"
[20:58] <humphreybc> thoughts?
[20:58] <c7p> sounds good to me
[20:59] <jaminday> yep that seems fine
[20:59] <godbyk> I figured we'd have the key people pulled out, if you want, then the authors, then translators, and then anyone else (not sure who else)
[20:59] <humphreybc> for the Translators section I want as many full names as possible
[20:59] <nisshh> cool
[20:59] <humphreybc> godbyk okay
[20:59] <humphreybc> yu
[20:59] <humphreybc> and what about people who have done multiple stuff, should they appear in Key People as well as say, Authors?
[20:59] <dutchie> godbyk: beta testers are in the "anyone else" category
[20:59] <jaminday> it could get difficult naming too many people
[21:00] <godbyk> I was toying with the idea of having a colophon that lists the tools used to produce the manual along with the typefaces and the translators who translated that particular version.
[21:00] <rudi> hmm
[21:01] <humphreybc> godbyk if it looks pretty and gives credit, I suppose that could work
[21:01] <humphreybc> I want to make sure that everyone who did anything gets in the credits
[21:01] <humphreybc> somewhere
[21:01] <godbyk> humphreybc: I'll play with it a little bit after the meeting and send you some samples. see how it turns out
[21:01] <humphreybc> obviously we'll have to draw a line
[21:01] <humphreybc> ie, if you fixed one comma and then buggered off, you might not get in the credits :P
[21:01] <humphreybc> godbyk sounds good
[21:02] <humphreybc> but anyone who did work that helped the project deserves recognition
[21:02] <jaminday> humphreybc: agreed
[21:02] <humphreybc> cool well I think that's pretty much everything
[21:02] <humphreybc> questions?
[21:02]  * godbyk agrees
[21:02] <rudi> hmmmm
[21:02] <thorwil> http://www.foopics.com/showfull/b7500ad92d9d14e25695d680636198d3
[21:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.foopics.com/showfull/b7500ad92d9d14e25695d680636198d3
[21:02] <humphreybc> rudi, what are you up to? are you still writing stuff?
[21:03] <humphreybc> thorwil: OOo eye candy
[21:03] <jaminday> thorwil: i like
[21:03] <dutchie> number 6
[21:03] <nisshh> how come we need an @ubuntu-manual.org email to access the bug form spreadsheet
[21:03]  * humphreybc likes 6 too
[21:03] <c7p> how will you concetrate the full-names of launchpad users,as long as they have a nickname?
[21:03] <jaminday> i like 6 and 1
[21:03] <rudi> humphreybc: I'm still writing and editing chapter7 whenever I get the change
[21:04] <rudi> I managed to update the Users and Groups stuff
[21:04] <rudi> so be inline with Lucid's GUI interface
[21:04] <humphreybc> rudi: cool. Leave chapter 7 to Bryan, Jamin and I, and you can start reading stuff and filing bugs when you finish writing
[21:04] <humphreybc> c7p, no idea
[21:04] <humphreybc> I guess we'll have to try to contact them and ask for their full name
[21:04] <jaminday> rudi: finish anything you were working on though if you like
[21:04] <rudi> humphreybc: Oki, cool :).
[21:04] <humphreybc> and if not, we'll just have to stick in their nick
[21:05] <rudi> So, I should just pitch in wherever I can from hereon out?
[21:05] <jaminday> humphreybc: maybe just send an email to the mailing list, and anyone you hear back from gets their real name in
[21:05] <humphreybc> k well since the logo mockups are there, I think we should decide on one now
[21:05] <c7p> humphreybc, tha'ts a good idea
[21:05] <humphreybc> jaminday: yeah, we'll do a combination of both
[21:05] <humphreybc> we'll worry about that later
[21:05] <nisshh> i like number 1
[21:05] <reventon_> is there a master contact list? like of the writers/editors for each section, along with their emails, irc nicks, etc.?
[21:05] <jaminday> rudi: yeah, probably best way would be to start reading and filing bugs using the form
[21:06] <rudi> schweet
[21:06] <humphreybc> reventon_: not really
[21:06] <rudi> no prob
[21:06] <c7p> have you talked about the manual's final title?
[21:06] <nisshh> yes
[21:06] <humphreybc> c7p yup we decided that ages ago
[21:06]  * humphreybc likes # 7 too
[21:06] <jaminday> reventon_: once we get these credits sorted that will probably be our list
[21:07]  * humphreybc staring at the logos trying to decide
[21:07] <jaminday> hehe same
[21:07] <jaminday> i like 4 and 5 too
[21:08] <humphreybc> 7 is nicer and more minimilist/modern, but I'm not sure people will make the connection with a book
[21:08] <nisshh> i like 1, 4 and 5
[21:08] <humphreybc> to me it could be a couple of colourful buildings, or two servers
[21:08] <jaminday> sounds like we can safely cut 2 and 3
[21:08] <humphreybc> but when you have the outline around it like number 6, it's definitely a book
[21:09] <humphreybc> 1, 2 and 3 are out
[21:09] <jaminday> 1 is out?
[21:09] <thorwil> humphreybc: i see the same issues with 7. if the question is 6 or 7, it should be 6
[21:09] <godbyk> I prefer 6 to 7.
[21:09] <nisshh> yep, 6
[21:09] <humphreybc> jaminday: yeah 1 was what thorwil came up with originally
[21:09] <humphreybc> okay 6 it is
[21:10] <thorwil> jaminday: 1 is out because humphreybc lives in fear of ninjas and sees a shuriken in it
[21:10] <humphreybc> thorwil, if you could polish up #6 and then send me it in different sizes, i'll put it up on the wiki/facebook/launchpad etc etc
[21:10] <nisshh> hehe
[21:10] <jaminday> haha
[21:10] <reventon_> really? i think 7 is so much cleaner
[21:10] <nisshh> ninjaphobia
[21:10] <c7p> from what i see the log is empty, can anyone tell me what's the manual title?thank you
[21:10] <humphreybc> reventon_: problem with 7 is that if you didn't see the text beside it, and if you didn't know what it was.... it'd be like what
[21:11] <humphreybc> c7p: "Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04"
[21:11] <thorwil> humphreybc: ok, will do that
[21:11] <humphreybc> cheers thorwil, and good work :)
[21:11] <c7p> :/
[21:11] <thorwil> you're welcome
[21:11] <godbyk> thorwil: Perhaps reduce the thickness of the border on 6 a bit.
[21:11] <humphreybc> thorwil: if you could get that to me today, then i'll do the re-branding in time for the OMG! post
[21:11] <humphreybc> also, godbyk, can we get some flashy branding on the form?
[21:12] <humphreybc> godbyk +1
[21:12] <humphreybc> thorwil: try reducing the border thickness by about 10%
[21:12] <godbyk> humphreybc: I don't really know. I think they said I put it on our site inside a <frame> or something. I have to look at it again.
[21:12] <humphreybc> godbyk okay neat
[21:12] <humphreybc> that means we need to update the site header
[21:13] <humphreybc> how has Daker actually done the site? HTML/CSS?
[21:13] <humphreybc> simple as replacing an image?
[21:13] <thorwil> humphreybc: i'll be logging out soon, so all i could give you in less than 12 hours is what i have right now
[21:13] <nisshh> i saw some php in there somewhere
[21:13] <humphreybc> thorwil: send me the SVG and I'll have a play with it
[21:13] <godbyk> humphreybc: It's in php, html, css, .. Replacing the logo should be easy enough.
[21:14]  * godbyk is relieved we went over the one hour mark.
[21:14] <humphreybc> thorwil: if I get lost in the world of Inkscape then no dramas, I'll just wait 12 hours till you send me the different size versions with a smaller border
[21:14] <thorwil> humphreybc: nah, i prefer to retain control ;)
[21:14] <jaminday> well i've gotta be off to tidy up the house
[21:14] <humphreybc> thorwil: haha okay then
[21:14] <humphreybc> as long as you promise that's the first thing you do when you get up
[21:14] <jaminday> humphreybc: i'll be around a bit later hopefully
[21:14]  * nisshh has to get sleep or will turn into a programming zombie
[21:14] <humphreybc> jaminday: okay that's all good
[21:15] <jaminday> bye all
[21:15] <nisshh> cya
[21:15] <thorwil> humphreybc: sure
[21:15] <nisshh> i need some sleep cya later
[21:15] <humphreybc> see ya nisshh, thanks for coming
[21:15] <nisshh> no probs
[21:15] <humphreybc> I'm posting the OMG! article to coincide with Monday morning, UK time
[21:16] <humphreybc> so that means I have a 12 hour advantage :)
[21:16] <humphreybc> awesome
[21:16] <humphreybc> I wonder if we should put the team logo somewhere in the manual itself
[21:17] <godbyk> humphreybc: there are some possibilities there.
[21:17] <humphreybc> where do you think would suit?
[21:17] <reventon_> maybe you could put in a back page with a faux barcode and the team logo right above that
[21:17] <humphreybc> title page, bottom left, beside the team name?
[21:17] <humphreybc> reventon_: lol
[21:18] <humphreybc> I think that one would look quite nice beside the team name on the title page
[21:18] <humphreybc> in the corner
[21:18] <thorwil> good night!
[21:19] <godbyk> humphreybc: well, I was thinking we could use it as a publisher's colophon, for instance.
[21:19] <reventon_> i'm getting a 403 error trying to download the manual pdf off the wiki
[21:19] <godbyk> so if the book were ever printed, the logo would go on the spine and on a bastard title page.
[21:20] <humphreybc> a bastard title page huh?
[21:20] <godbyk> reventon_: yeah, the site got pulled out from under the server during the translations merge.
[21:20]  * humphreybc is going to get the manual printed and bound by the University print shop for himself when it's finished
[21:20] <godbyk> I'm working on it.
[21:21] <reventon_> ah, ok no worries
[21:21]  * godbyk thinks we should upload 'em to lulu.com so anyone can get a printed and bound copy.
[21:22] <humphreybc> godbyk yep, we can do that
[21:22]  * humphreybc is actually getting kinda excited to see the final product
[21:22] <humphreybc> especially all the translations and screenshots, fancy website... it's going to be kickass
[21:22] <humphreybc> and totally amazing for 4 months
[21:23]  * humphreybc is expecting a huge amount of love from the community for our project after this
[21:23] <humphreybc> make
[21:23] <humphreybc> ops
[21:23] <humphreybc> that was meant to go in the terminal :P
[21:24] <reventon_> is there going to be an html version uploaded to the site as well?
[21:24] <humphreybc> reventon_: probably not for this release
[21:24] <humphreybc> but it's on the cards for 10.10
[21:25] <humphreybc> godbyk, could you also fix up the title page for tomorrow so when the OMG! readers see it they don't think what
[21:25] <humphreybc> :)
[21:25] <godbyk> yeah, I'll add it to my list.
[21:25] <godbyk> lemme make sure I'm not missing anything:
[21:26] <godbyk> title page, credits, website, ...
[21:26] <godbyk> what else?
[21:26] <humphreybc> form?
[21:26] <humphreybc> I think that's all
[21:26] <godbyk> oh, yeah, bug form.
[21:26] <humphreybc> should keep ya busy for the next few hours :P
[21:26] <godbyk> do I need to do anything re: screenshots?
[21:26] <humphreybc> #endmeeting
[21:26] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:26.
[21:26] <humphreybc> I don't think so
[21:27] <humphreybc> okay meeting over, thanks everyone for turning up
[21:28] <reventon_> i'm off to get some food, probably see you guys in the main chan later