godbykcrap.  I think the auto-update overwrote the changes I was working on.00:05
godbykToday I'm totally kicking myself for setting that up! :)00:06
humphreybcwhat do you think about this as the main text on the front page00:06
godbyksounds too technical-oriented for the audience we're after.00:10
humphreybcand this is the feature text: http://paste.ubuntu.com/398530/00:10
humphreybcoh yeah?00:10
godbykMy mom isn't going to care about the license, the page count, or any of that.00:10
godbykTalk about what the manual will help the user do.00:10
godbykNo one cares that it's in 534 languages.. they only care that it's in their own language.00:11
godbykThey don't care about the license.00:11
godbykTell them what they'll be able to do after they've read the manual.00:11
godbykHow will it help them?00:11
humphreybc"The manual will help you become familiar with everyday00:12
humphreybctasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and00:12
humphreybcscanning documents."00:12
humphreybc"With an emphasis on easy to follow00:14
humphreybcinstructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience."00:14
humphreybchow's that?00:15
humphreybcI'm going to keep the bit about the license because I think that's important00:16
godbykwhat does this mean?00:16
godbykbzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/.bzr/branch/lock): Transport operation not possible: http does not support mkdir()00:16
humphreybclol no idea00:16
humphreybcgoogle it00:17
humphreybc"http does not support mkdir()"00:17
Red_HamsterX"It is written for the community, by the community." as an alternative to using scary terms like "open source" and "license"?00:20
godbykhumphreybc: http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/ better?00:23
godbykI'm going to move daker's stuff over to the live site now.00:24
humphreybcRed_HamsterX: Hmm. I really really want to emphasize the open source bit, because it's important that people know about open source00:24
godbykso uh.. no one should screw up the things in website/daker (or move them).  :-)00:24
godbykhumphreybc: emphasize it at the right moment, though.00:24
humphreybcyeah that's good00:24
Red_HamsterXI agree that it's important, but it should be mentioned once they're comfortable.00:25
godbykwhen they're visiting your website, looking for help and answers, they don't care at all about open source and it'll just get in their way.00:25
godbykyou really don't have to beat people over the head with things, they'll generally pick up on it over time.00:25
godbykwe explain open source in the manual anyway, don't we?00:26
Red_HamsterXAnd disambiguate it from Free software to keep Stallman happy?00:26
godbykWE'LL DO IT LIVE!  http://ubuntu-manual.org/00:37
humphreybcwell, that was weird00:46
* humphreybc is beginning to reconsider whether running photoshop under Wine is really worth it when it destroys your compuer00:46
humphreybcgodbyk, heh, i knew all that stuff already00:47
humphreybctried restarted X and stuff00:47
humphreybci just did another reboot and it worked okay00:47
humphreybcbe back in a sec00:47
godbykOkay, that does it. I'm going to read a fiction book.01:16
godbykI fixed the title for the manual.01:16
godbykIn the process of setting up the new site, I whacked the builds dir and lost the css and icons and stuff.  whatever01:17
godbykwill fix it later01:17
godbyknew builds things are here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/01:17
godbykI also set up screenshots.ubuntu-maunal.org, but will have to chat with the quickshot guys later to put the code there.01:17
humphreybcis the branch broken?01:19
humphreybcssh: Could not resolve hostname bazaar.launchpad.net: Name or service not known01:19
humphreybcbzr: ERROR: Connection closed: Unexpected end of message. Please check connectivity and permissions, and report a bug if problems persist.01:19
humphreybcoh nope it worked okay the second time01:19
humphreybcIf anyone sees Daker, tell him I've mocked up a Contributors page01:26
humphreybcand finalized the text for the website01:27
godbykhumphreybc: don't break my website or I will hurt you. :)01:39
humphreybci'm trying to push some stuff in ubuntu-manual-website01:40
humphreybcbut it looks like daker has locked the branch01:40
godbyk-androidDon't use that branch anyway. It's out of date.01:44
humphreybcso we're not using that?01:44
humphreybcit needs to become up to date at some point01:44
godbyk-androidNot sure  I'm not because those files were polder than the ones in ubuntu-manual/website01:45
humphreybcwe'll sort it out later01:45
humphreybcgo back to your novel :)01:45
Red_HamsterXWith a PPA, can we set dependencies on other (already-in-main) packages?02:43
Red_HamsterXI've never worked directly with one before.02:43
Red_HamsterXI've added a dependence on python-wnck, but everything titeuf wanted works now.03:50
Red_HamsterXThe dependence is easy to sever if we want to let the user click maximize themselves.03:51
Red_HamsterX(It's a tiny set of bindings against an always-present Gnome library. It's Canonical-supported)03:51
shrinineed help04:37
shrinican not download latest build04:37
shriniit shows 404 error04:37
shrinihumphreybc: you there?04:37
shriniis not there04:47
shrini404 error04:47
humphreybcso, where are the mugshots? hmm?08:11
godbykapparently, no one wants to play.08:16
godbykhumphreybc: do you have any sort of estimate as to the number of contributors we'll have listed in the credits section?  translators, authors, editors, team leads, designers, website, blah blah blah...08:20
humphreybcgodbyk, have a look in /website/source08:21
humphreybcsomething like that perhaps08:21
humphreybcand if no one sends me mugshots i'll resort to googling your names and finding photos off launchpad08:22
humphreybcgodbyk did you get my android gtalk message?08:22
godbykhumphreybc: yeah, I just noticed it.08:23
godbykhadn't turned on the sound yet.08:23
humphreybcah right08:23
humphreybci want to see how latitude works08:23
humphreybchowcome i can't see you in my friends list08:24
humphreybcdo I have to do something special?08:24
humphreybci have to add you08:25
humphreybcgodbyk, I added you, you probably have to accept08:25
godbykyay, thorwil's here!08:32
thorwilmorning! :)08:32
godbykI just woke up from a four-hour nap.  Didn't get much reading done!08:33
humphreybchey thorwil08:34
humphreybcremember the first thing you were going to do? :P08:34
godbykokay, 'bzr status' says I haven't modified anything, but when I do a bzr pull, it says the branches have diverged and I have to merge 'em.  what's up with that?08:42
humphreybcno idea lol08:42
humphreybcbzr is weird08:42
godbykI think I committed something but didn't push it.08:44
thorwilawesome. an unfilled rectangle in my svg becomes a filled one in pdf09:27
godbykthorwil: nice.  so are the problems with the PDF format itself or with inkscape's export function?09:28
thorwilgodbyk: no idea and doesn't really matter09:29
thorwilgodbyk: turning the stroke into a path makes this work. gonna try a minimal case and report that bug09:34
thorwilso that was my x-session suddenly disappearing09:36
humphreybc1happened to me too!09:36
humphreybc1on lucid?09:36
thorwilno, still karmic09:38
thorwilhumphreybc1: work on logo takes a bit longer as i'm trying to make it pdf-compatible09:39
humphreybc1thorwil: that's okay09:39
thorwilhumphreybc1, godbyk: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/ba2ef5cd976bd1d63992669bc9f84f5d10:01
godbykthorwil: I think the bottom one with the lighter border color looks better.10:02
humphreybc1I agree with Kevin10:03
humphreybc1I wonder what it would look like with a small drop shadow underneat?10:04
* humphreybc1 loves drop shadows10:04
godbykhumphreybc1: is obsessed with drop shadows.10:04
godbykI think a drop shadow would just muddy up the image.10:04
humphreybc1it might do10:04
humphreybc1just below the book10:04
humphreybc1not around it10:04
humphreybc1like a blog10:04
humphreybc1it probably would mess it up a bit10:04
godbykwe're using flat glyphs everywhere else, why would we want the logo to be 3d?10:05
humphreybc1godbyk, don't make me suggest we change everything else to 3D with drop shadows10:05
humphreybc1okay fair enough10:05
humphreybc1no drop shadow10:05
godbyknever fear.  I have a strong suspicion that thorwil would reject that notion out of hand. :)10:05
humphreybc1of course he would10:06
* humphreybc1 <3 thorwil 10:06
thorwilhumphreybc1: you wanted different sizes?10:07
humphreybc1Red_HamsterX, TommyBrunn, Jono keeps harassing me about python snippets10:07
humphreybc1thorwil: yeah that would be nice. i suppose i could work out how to change the size in Inkscape though10:07
humphreybc1I might be capable of that10:07
godbykwell it's not always a matter of just scaling the image up or down.10:08
godbykthe larger images can afford more detail than the smaller version.10:08
godbykand the line thicknesses may need to be adjusted, too.10:08
humphreybc1thorwil, just if you could do small/medium and large versions of both the logo + wording and then just the logo10:08
thorwilhumphreybc1: this is all aligned to the pixel grid. if you choose a size where things don't end up on the grid again, things get blurry10:08
humphreybc1so the largest would be about the size of the one on the website/wiki ... before I made it smaller, if you remember that10:09
humphreybc1smallest would be about 20x2010:09
humphreybc1I'm sure you know what I mean10:09
humphreybc1we need to cover launchpad, wiki, website, facebook, twitter, identi.ca, that other thing that godbyk set up which has kudos and also in the manual10:10
godbykmost of those are using nice binary multiples.. 16x16, 32x32, 64x64, 128x128, etc.10:10
thorwilhumphreybc1: i actually think the current size might be just fine for wiki and website. this graphic doesn't gain anything by growing larger, there's no detail to add10:10
humphreybc1binary sizes are good10:11
humphreybc1what godbyk said10:11
godbykI'm going to a TeX conference at the beginning of July. Just looking over the presentations they've accepted so far, and some will be handy to see.10:11
* godbyk is excited about the conference even though normal people would find it terribly dull.10:11
thorwilhumphreybc1: favicon 16x16. launchpad uses 14x14?10:13
humphreybc1yeah launchpad are weird10:13
humphreybc1they have three different sizes10:13
godbyk14x14? seriously?10:13
humphreybc114x14, 64x64 and 192x19210:13
humphreybc1I think10:13
humphreybc114x14 is for the little teeny icon10:13
godbykwtf is that about.  that's just wrong.10:13
godbykhumphreybc1: This TeX talk sounds insane! http://tug.org/tug2010/abstracts/verna.txt  (I can't wait to hear it!)10:18
humphreybc1Latex and biology?10:18
humphreybc1stranger things have happened I guess10:18
godbykevolving macros sound scary to me. :)10:19
godbykOkay, I'm off to read some more and then get some real sleep.10:19
dutchienight godbyk10:39
dutchiemorning everyone else10:40
dutchiedid Red_HamsterX get his dependencies sorted?10:44
humphreybc1   hi dutche10:48
humphreybc1dutchie, email your mugshot please :)10:52
dutchiewill http://media.joshh.co.uk/~jrh/me.jpg do?10:53
humphreybc1yea that'll work10:54
humphreybc1awesome, you can drag images from chrome to a folder and it downloads the image/sticks it in the folder10:55
humphreybc1I didn't know that10:55
humphreybc1might hit the sack soon too11:06
humphreybc1dutchie, if you see daker could you tell him:11:13
humphreybc11) I've finalized the text for the website11:13
humphreybc1and 2) I've added a mockup of what the contributors page should look like11:14
dutchiewill do11:14
humphreybc1both the text and the new mockup are under website/source in the main manual branch11:14
humphreybc1and the text is actually in the mockups, not in text files or anything11:14
humphreybc1and with that, i'm off to bed11:15
humphreybc1before I forget11:20
humphreybc1thorwil, i'll need the new logo in different sizes in my inbox by 0400 UTC on Monday11:20
humphreybc1godbyk, can you make sure that the download link for the english manual is working and the bug form is working before 0800 UTC on Monday11:21
humphreybc1I'm going to post the OMG! Ubuntu! article at about 0900 UTC on Monday11:22
thorwilhumphreybc1: any other sizes than given, 14, 16, 64 and 192 px?11:22
humphreybc1dutchie, if you have time, go through the current bugs and triage them so they're completely up to date, remove any that have been fixed. We need a clean slate to work from for this week11:22
humphreybc1thorwil: You could do a really nice high res one :)11:23
humphreybc1and you're including the text as well?11:23
thorwilhumphreybc1: only with currents size was the plan11:23
humphreybc1I can just crop the logo out when I need to use it without the text11:24
godbyk-androidMake sure daker pulls my updates before changing things. (He's new to bzr.)11:24
humphreybc1right, everyone got all that? I'll be back in about 16 hours.11:25
* humphreybc1 has to sleep, then has uni11:25
humphreybc1sweet. dutchie, because you're going to be up for the better part of the next 16 hours, you're in charge. If daker comes, make sure he knows what's going on.11:26
humphreybc1sweet :)11:26
komsascat /home/komsas/.irssi/nicklistfifo13:30
=== MenZa_ is now known as MenZa
shrinitoday we had a good time15:34
shriniwith translating ubuntu manual into tamil15:34
shrinithanks all for your support15:34
shriniwe did some 20% of work15:34
ubuntujenkinshows everyone doing?15:45
shriniubuntujenkins: hai16:12
shriniwe did some translation in tamil16:12
shrinisome 20-30% of job is done16:12
ubuntujenkinsThats realy good news shrini16:13
shriniubuntujenkins: we had a lot of fun here16:13
shriniubuntujenkins: translation is a great job16:14
ubuntujenkinsglad you like it16:14
ubuntujenkinsdoes any one know where i can find the minutes to yesterdays meeting? I can't find them in the logs and they are not on the wiki16:16
shrinii too want it16:19
shrinithanks a lot for all your support and encouragement16:21
shriniwe will keep on doing in this week days, if possible16:21
shriniif not, we will gathewr in the weekend and do it16:21
shrini12 people of our kanchilug came here and do it16:21
ubuntujenkinsgood to see you are making progress and haveing fun whilst doing it :-)16:21
shriniwe all gathered in my home16:23
shrinimom and dad keep on giving tea,busicuts, snacks etc16:23
ubuntujenkinshaha sounds fun16:23
shriniwe kept on discussing, writing, kidding on our tamil knowledge16:23
shrinitoday only we know that how we are lack in tamil16:24
shrinibut still the group activity gave us the16:24
shrinienthuasism to do it16:24
shrininow 2 guys are uploading their work in LP16:25
shrinithanks a lot16:27
shrininow going for dinner16:27
shriniwill update the status as we do16:27
ubuntujenkinshope the food is good16:27
shrinicatch you later16:28
ubuntujenkinsbye o/16:28
Dakeranyone here ?16:47
ubuntujenkinshello Daker16:48
Dakerhow are u @all ?16:48
ubuntujenkinsI am a little tired but good. you?16:49
Dakerfine, with some DNS problem yesterday :)16:49
ubuntujenkinsI guess its all sorted now then16:50
ubuntujenkinsgood good16:51
dutchieooh, Daker16:51
Dakerhi dutchie16:51
ubuntujenkinsare dutchie do we have minutes for the meeting yet?16:51
dutchie11:13:50 < humphreybc1> dutchie, if you see daker could you tell him:16:51
dutchie11:13:57 < humphreybc1> 1) I've finalized the text for the website16:51
dutchie11:14:07 < humphreybc1> and 2) I've added a mockup of what the contributors page should look like16:51
dutchie11:14:24 < dutchie> will do16:51
dutchie11:14:32 < humphreybc1> both the text and the new mockup are under website/source in the main manual branch16:51
dutchie11:14:40 < humphreybc1> and the text is actually in the mockups, not in text files or anything16:51
dutchie11:15:03 < humphreybc1> thanks16:52
dutchieubuntujenkins: don't think so16:52
ubuntujenkinsok did i miss much?16:52
dutchiewe had it in #ubuntu-meeting, that could be why you can't find it in the logs16:52
ubuntujenkinsI looked in #ubuntu-meeting but still couldn't find them i will doubel check16:52
dutchieDaker: got all that?16:53
Dakeryeah got it16:53
ubuntujenkinsthere is no log http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/20/%23launchpad-meeting.html16:53
Dakerubuntujenkins, :)16:54
ubuntujenkinsi was loking at lanchpad meeting thanks Daker I have only had 8 hours sleep since friday16:55
Dakerhttp://ubuntu-manual.org/ is it godbyk how made this ?16:55
Dakerbe back taler17:02
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87 and Red_HamsterX it looks like the meeting went well yesterday. Thanks for all your work so far, is there anything i can do at the moment to help?17:04
titeuf_87looks like Red_HamsterX implemented a lot of the stuff already we talked about yesterday17:06
ubuntujenkinsI am so pleased with how quickly it is coming along17:06
ubuntujenkinsI can give you the latest screenshot list17:07
titeuf_87ubuntujenkins, can you take a look at server/screencaps/config/dictionary and see if that's simple enough?17:08
titeuf_87this is where the list of screenshots that needs to be taken will be stored17:08
ubuntujenkinshttp://paste.ubuntu.com/398864/, it the list I think the quickshot live cd will be easy i am having compliing issues at the moment though17:08
* ubuntujenkins looks17:08
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87: it looks good to me, will it contain all of the screenshots or will there be a file for each screenshot, what is the #=sub-rect= line and the one below mean?17:11
ubuntujenkinscurrently commented out17:11
titeuf_87that is if we only need a small part of a screenshot and not the whole window17:12
titeuf_87or in case of fullscreen windows to just grab the network list for instance17:12
ubuntujenkinsi see how does the cordiates work? point to start from then size of box?17:13
titeuf_87I guess top-left corner and bottom-right corner, but I haven't played with it yet17:14
ubuntujenkinsthats great17:15
Red_HamsterXYeah, it's top-left and dimensions.18:31
Red_HamsterXA negative value for top or left will make it relative ot the opposite side.18:31
Red_HamsterXI can change anything quite easily, if needed.18:32
Red_HamsterX(Especially since I'm no longer bound to my netbook, so I can actually code things quickly)18:36
shriniis not working18:49
godbyk-androidshrini: try builds.ubuntu-manual.org.18:55
shrinithis link is not in wiki page18:56
shrinithat non working link only given there18:56
godbyk-androidWe'll need to fix the wiki page then.18:56
shrinilast week it worked well18:56
ubuntujenkinsok that sounds good Red_HamsterX18:57
godbyk-androidIt's a completely different website as of yesterday, though.18:57
* ubuntujenkins edits wiki18:57
godbyk-androidThanks, ubuntujenkins!18:59
ubuntujenkinsno problem its being slow today18:59
ubuntujenkinswill be done when it loads19:00
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk-android: You are aware you can't download the any pdfs or text files from builds.ubuntu-manual.org?19:09
godbyk-androidThat may be true. I'm still getting it setup.19:09
ubuntujenkinsthats ok I have pointed the wiki at the uk version like before19:10
ubuntujenkins*us english19:10
godbyk-androidOkay. I'll get things updated in just a but.19:10
ubuntujenkinsno problem just wanted to make sure you were aware19:11
shriniteam: here is our fun day. http://kanchilug.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/translating-ubuntu-manual-into-tamil/19:26
ubuntujenkinsshrini: already reading it :-)19:26
shriniubuntujenkins: thanks a lot19:26
ubuntujenkinsshrini: in the picture below "My mom and dad made us tireless with their snacks, tea, juice and sweet words. They are so proud of the team on this work." what is the guy in the picture holding? is it a cd?19:29
shriniubuntujenkins: yes.19:30
shriniubuntujenkins: ubuntu CD19:30
shrinicustom made cover to distribute locally19:30
ubuntujenkinsI like the case design19:30
godbykOkay, I'm back at my computer again. Let me look at the build site stuff.19:52
godbykHey, vish, are you around?20:05
vishgodbyk: yup20:05
godbykvish: What icons would you suggest I use to link to the manual PDFs and log files on the ubuntu-manual build page?20:06
godbykI had some ugly ones before, but I accidentally deleted them when I moved the builds page.20:07
godbyk(Along with the .css file.)20:07
vishgodbyk: you can use the same icons used in lp20:07
godbykwhere are they?20:07
vishhmm.. lemme check20:08
vishgodbyk: https://launchpad.net/+icing/rev9091/icon-sprites20:11
vishgodbyk: save that as a png , it has several icons20:11
vishgodbyk: also > https://launchpad.net/@@/build-success20:12
godbykooh.. nice checkbox.  is there a build-failure, too?20:13
godbykthere is!20:13
godbykvish: I didn't see a pdf or log file icon in the sprites.20:14
vishgodbyk: hmm , i dont think we have a pdf , the icon-sprites have several icons.. there is one with "files" and a file too20:16
vishgodbyk: or you can just grab the pdf icon from the humanity theme , there is a 16px icon and a 16px log icon20:18
vishgodbyk: pdf > /usr/share/icons/Humanity/mimes/16/gnome-mime-application-pdf.svg20:18
vishgodbyk: for logfile > /usr/share/icons/Humanity/apps/16/accessories-text-editor.svg20:19
godbykI think I may use launchpad's file icon for the log files and their download icon for the pdf. let me try that real quick and see if it makes sense.20:22
vishgodbyk: for log file you can use the dots with lines like the one used for changelog here > https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/gtk2-engines-murrine20:26
* vish ZZzzz...20:32
* ubuntujenkins is going to restart and try the first every ubuntu manual quickshot live cd20:33
dutchieooh, nice idea20:36
godbykwow! that sounds impressive!20:38
dutchieubuntujenkins: does it work?20:54
ubuntujenkinserm no I think i forgot to change something I got ditracted whilst making it I am wrting a script to do it as i think I will be trying to do this a few times.20:54
ubuntujenkinsalso I have onlly had 8 hours sleep since friday20:55
ubuntujenkinsand my typing is awful20:55
godbykubuntujenkins: where was the bad wiki link (to the PDF)?21:11
ubuntujenkinserm it was on the download buttonon the home page I can't use the internet to check it i acedently removed my resolve.conf21:12
ubuntujenkinsbut irc still works21:14
godbykvish: Looking a little better?  http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/21:15
godbykI'm still fiddling with the css to format the table (adjusting the spacing, mostly).21:15
godbykbrb. need food. starving.21:15
godbykI just printed the whole manual, so I'll sit down and start reading through it and marking it up soon.22:48

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