[00:00] <histo> setuid: well you are looking for the oem installs then that sort of thing?  You coudl create images of each one etc..
[00:00] <setuid> lukus, Things have changed, make sure you have a system backup
[00:00] <setuid> or install etckeeper and be careful
[00:00] <abe3k> lukus, don't get confused when you see the title bar buttons in the opposite positions :)
[00:00] <sagaci> ok, i've just upgraded from karmic and want to check my apt sources, tried gksudo /etc/apt/sources.list but it looks like it's moved or changed, where is it these days
[00:00] <setuid> histo, I'm trying to automate the install, so there is zero human intervention...
[00:00] <lukus> I was planning on helping with beta testing .. I've done so for the past few releases, and it's been pretty painless
[00:00] <histo> setuid: how are you going to do that? setup partitions to what?
[00:00] <histo> setuid: it can be done with the debian isntaller
[00:00] <lukus> abe3k, i've read a bit about that .. quite contentious, eh
[00:00] <setuid> sagaci, /etc/apt/sources.list
[00:01] <abe3k> lukus, you can say that again heh
[00:01]  * setuid is lucky, he doesn't use title bars or buttons or window frames, so I never see that breakage
[00:01] <histo> setuid: each distro would be different though dependign on their installer.  Or you can take images of each and then use something to just put the image on the drive etc..
[00:03] <Lonely-Troll> Hello
[00:03] <lukus> abe3k, surely if you don't like it - you can just change the theme though?
[00:03] <Lonely-Troll> abe3k, surely if you don't like it - you can just change the theme though?
[00:04] <abe3k> lukus, nope, it happens to all themes, but some of the guys here came up with a way of changing it
[00:04] <Lonely-Troll> lukus, nope, it happens to all themes, but some of the guys here came up with a way of changing it
[00:04] <yofel> Lonely-Troll: ?
[00:04] <setuid> boot de troll
[00:04] <lukus> did shuttleworth have any research to back up the decision?
[00:04] <lukus> it seems a bit arbitrary
[00:04] <Lonely-Troll> yofel Hello :) Are you from Paris?
[00:05] <abe3k> lukus, even the close button isn't positioned in the window corner lol
[00:05] <Lonely-Troll> setuid Do you wanna buy me a a boot's?
[00:05] <yofel> Lonely-Troll: nope, and this isn't a chat channel but a support, channel, use #ubuntu-offtopic for general chat
[00:05]  * lukus gives Lonely-Troll 
[00:05]  * lukus gives Lonely-Troll a hug
[00:05] <Lonely-Troll> yofel They banned me for nothing 2 minutes ago  :'(
[00:05] <lukus> there, there - it'll be alright
[00:06] <yofel> Lonely-Troll: I doubt they did that for nothing
[00:06] <Lonely-Troll>  Lonely-Troll gives lukus  a hug
[00:06] <yofel> Lonely-Troll: you can go to #kubuntu-offtopic or similar then
[00:06] <Lonely-Troll> yofel They are some stupid moder, she did it
[00:06] <lukus> abe3k, i dunno - it seems like a risky move, but to be honest - I think we'll probably all get used to it pretty quickly.
[00:07] <yofel> Lonely-Troll: please don't call people stupid, especially members, it's against the coc
[00:07] <Lonely-Troll> yofel ok)) I 'll try #kubuntu-offtopic
[00:07] <abe3k> lukus, it just gives you the feeling of wanting to use the mouse with your left hand :)
[00:07] <Lonely-Troll> later
[00:07] <Lonely-Troll> yofel You say that before you've banned :-)
[00:07] <lukus> maybe it'll be more effective - being able to control the window without spanning left to right all the time?
[00:08] <lukus> (I'm trying to be optimistic)
[00:08] <abe3k> lukus,  uhm ,,,, what ?
[00:08] <abe3k> lukus, it more like wasting time clicking on blank space hah
[00:08] <lukus> abe3k, well .. the menu is generally aligned with the left of the screen
[00:08] <lukus> abe3k, .. if the window controls are aligned left too
[00:08] <Lonely-Troll> So.. why you are here ?
[00:08] <abe3k> lukus, you're totally right
[00:09] <abe3k> lukus, I didn't think about it that way :)
[00:09] <abe3k> lukus, at least the user should have the choice  of positioning them, right ?
[00:10] <Lonely-Troll> I am hungry... I am dieing....
[00:10] <Lonely-Troll> I need food...
[00:10] <Lonely-Troll> Feed me!!!
[00:10] <yofel> !ot | Lonely-Troll
[00:10] <lukus> abe3k, yes - but creating too many fractured choices in terms of a standard Ubuntu UI might not be a good idea
[00:10] <setuid> Don't feed the troll!
[00:10] <Lonely-Troll> setuid But I wanna eat!!!
[00:11] <setuid> lukus, Exactly the opposite is what we need, MORE choice, not less.
[00:11] <setuid> This isn't Windows, please don't try to turn it into that platform
[00:11] <Lonely-Troll> setuid Do you wanna that I will die from hungry
[00:11] <lukus> setuid, i'm not sure if we do need more choice .. I think a user should know what to expect from ubuntu
[00:11] <lukus> limitations are good and necessary imo
[00:11] <setuid> I think a user should be able to do what they want with Ubuntu
[00:12] <abe3k> lukus, you can't even change event sounds in ubuntu anymore .... I'm not liking these limitations
[00:12] <lukus> on one level - this is positioning ubuntu apart from the crowd .. in the same way that the mac has quirks which define that system
[00:12] <Lonely-Troll> setuid +1 I think a user should be able to do what they want with Ubuntu-channel's
[00:12] <setuid> It's limitations that got us in this trouble a few years ago... removing all of the useful/power features from the GUI and the applications, in order to fall back so "granny" could use it
[00:12] <Lonely-Troll> Nah... what about food?
[00:12]  * setuid has been doing this a very, very long time... and we've de-evolved quite a bit over the last 10 years
[00:12] <yofel> Lonely-Troll: no, the channels are divided by the topics that are discussed in  them, and you have to follow the code of conduct in all of them
[00:12] <lukus> I must admit, I do strongly dislike the 'make it so an idiot can use it' philosophy
[00:13] <lukus> because no one is beginner for long - everyone learns ..
[00:13] <setuid> Most of GNOME turned that way about 2 years ago
[00:13] <abe3k> lukus, they have windows for that
[00:13] <lukus> heheh
[00:13] <yofel> lukus: you can graduate to kubuntu all the time :P
[00:13] <Lonely-Troll> yofel Ok :) So, let's crack a windows.com?
[00:13] <setuid> Look at how KDE does it... they allow you to change the level of power in the GUI, with a single prefercen
[00:13] <Lonely-Troll> yofel Ok  So, let's crack a microsoft.com?
[00:13] <abe3k> yofel, I'm thinking about that myself actually, I'm liking the plasma looks :)
[00:14] <setuid> When you're a beginner, you only see beginner options... and you can check Advanced or Expert if you want, wihch enables those hidden power features
[00:14] <lukus> I like gnome though
[00:14] <abe3k> me too :(
[00:14] <setuid> Most of gnome is non-graphical (thankfully), and that's the way I keep it
[00:14] <lukus> I think that the UI should maybe pass responsibility to the xwindows teams
[00:14] <Lonely-Troll> lukus Do you like gnome? But what about the elf's?
[00:14] <lukus> be in KDE or GNOME or xxxx
[00:14] <lukus> *be it
[00:15] <lukus> Lonely-Troll, I only like elfs on toast - with a bit of hot pepper sauce
[00:15]  * setuid runs sawfish, been running that for ~9-10 years... with gnome support libs behind it 
[00:15] <Lonely-Troll> lukus Cool :) But were do you catch them?
[00:16] <abe3k> Darnassus
[00:16] <lukus> So I'm imagining that lucid is going to be an annoying disappointment?
[00:16] <abe3k> :P
[00:16] <lukus> and will break everything
[00:16] <lukus> and this is the LTS release
[00:16] <abe3k> lukus, I did a fresh install, I like the new nautilus look
[00:16] <abe3k> lukus, but you can''t toggle the text address bar anymore !
[00:16] <lukus> I really liked that feature
[00:16] <lukus> damn
[00:17] <abe3k> lukus, You'll have to use a keyboard shortcut each time you want it
[00:17] <lukus> being able to type a location is great
[00:17] <abe3k> lukus, there isn't a button to even turn it on
[00:17] <lukus> oh my days
[00:17] <Lonely-Troll> Equs  Helllo!!!
[00:17] <Equs> hi
[00:17] <Lonely-Troll> robin0800 Helllo!!!
[00:17] <Lonely-Troll> Equs What do you do here?
[00:17] <lukus> I might wait for lucid to go to release
[00:18] <lukus> I actually quite like karmic
[00:18] <abe3k> lukus, I'm using it on my eeepc but not my desktop computer
[00:18] <lukus> k
[00:19] <lukus> well after the intel graphics cluster fck in jaunty, i'm pretty happy leaving my netbook alone ;)
[00:19]  * setuid is happy with the non-ubuntu nvidia drivers in Lucid
[00:19] <abe3k> lukus, I'm not facing any graphical problems so far, only on startup I'm getting an annoying exclamation point about a crash
[00:20] <Lonely-Troll> foooooddddd.....
[00:20] <lukus> ah .. well - you can always report though via launchpad?
[00:20] <setuid> 43427 frames in 5.0 seconds
[00:20] <setuid> 46176 frames in 5.0 seconds
[00:20] <Lonely-Troll> i am dieng
[00:20] <abe3k> setuid, I've never used ubuntu nvidia drivers for like 4 years
[00:20] <Lonely-Troll>  DG19075 hi :)
[00:20] <setuid> abe3k, they're packaged wrong
[00:20] <setuid> the ubuntu ones also hard-lock my laptop... the nvidia.com ones of the _same version_ do not
[00:21] <abe3k> setuid, well at least they're helping the newbies :)
[00:21] <lukus> abe3k, are you using the latest nvidia drivers?
[00:21] <setuid> Who is?
[00:21] <bjsnider> that's an absurd and factually inaccurate statement
[00:21] <abe3k> lukus, 195.36. something
[00:21] <lukus> the ones which previously had fan problems?
[00:21] <bjsnider> the nvidia drivers are not packaged wrong
[00:21] <Lonely-Troll> the nvidia drivers are not packaged wrong
[00:21] <abe3k> lukus, not that I know of no
[00:21] <Lonely-Troll> lukus, not that I know of no
[00:22] <abe3k> lukus, tempratures pretty stable
[00:22] <setuid> bjsnider, There is something subtly different, which causes the ubuntu driver of the same version to hard-lock Lenovo laptops (3 different models). The same version driver from nvidia.com, does not.
[00:22] <Lonely-Troll> bjsnider, There is something subtly different, which causes the ubuntu driver of the same version to hard-lock Lenovo laptops (3 different models). The same version driver from nvidia.com, does not.
[00:22] <darthanubis> anyone notice FF3.6 fonts seem not to be AA'd like FF3.5
[00:22] <Lonely-Troll> anyone notice FF3.6 fonts seem not to be AA'd like FF3.5
[00:22] <Lonely-Troll> darthanubis noup
[00:22] <darthanubis> I noticed this in 9.10 but it was easy not to use 3.6
[00:22] <lukus> double check abe3k - that version was recalled, and a new revision was put out due to overheating probs
[00:22] <lukus> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=122606
[00:22] <Lonely-Troll> darthanubis i've notise it not
[00:22] <darthanubis> but now in 10.04 it seesm I'm stuck with 3.6
[00:23] <abe3k> lukus, which version are you talking about ?
[00:23] <lukus> 195.36
[00:23] <Lonely-Troll> 195.37
[00:23] <Lonely-Troll> is better
[00:23] <abe3k> lukus, uh huh, mine is 195.36.15
[00:23] <Lonely-Troll> 195.36.15 is for losers
[00:23] <lukus> ah, you're fine then
[00:24] <yofel> Lonely-Troll: doesn't exist in ubuntu, please be quiet if you don't know what you're talking aboutt
[00:24] <Lonely-Troll> 195.36 is for loser too
[00:24] <lukus> was a fan speed issue in 195.36.08 and 195.36.03
[00:24] <Lonely-Troll> only 195.37 is for genius
[00:24] <abe3k> Lonely-Troll, trolls are misleading and bisexuals
[00:24] <Hellow> abe3k: There's nothing wrong with being bisexual.
[00:24] <Lonely-Troll> abe3k I have only one sex
[00:24] <yofel> lukus: the fixed drivers were uploaded a day or 2 ago
[00:24] <Hellow> In my opinion, at least.
[00:25] <lukus> yofel, ah cool
[00:25] <Hellow> yofel: Confirming in just a second.
[00:25] <nightsjammies> anyone in here run calibre?
[00:25] <Lonely-Troll> abe3k Ah! So you are a rasist!!!!1
[00:25] <abe3k> yofel, mine was released on the 19th I think
[00:25] <yofel> lukus: nvidia-current is now 195.36.15
[00:25] <geoff918> Which kernel/install should I use for the lowest power consumption given the following?
[00:25] <geoff918> I will be using an HP Tower for use in a dedicated server set-up. It will host a website for my small business, a PostgreSQL database, and probably an email server.
[00:25] <geoff918> Expected system usage: Always on with few requests per day
[00:25] <geoff918> Website: Few requests, maybe a few per week at best
[00:25] <geoff918> Email: Similar
[00:25] <geoff918> PostgreSQL / PHP: One to two accesses per day
[00:25] <geoff918> SSH: Used for administrative connections
[00:25] <geoff918> Basically, the server will need to be "always on". It will be a headless system (no monitor). I would like it to be as power friendly as possible as consuming 100s of watts per hour is a complete waste.
[00:25] <geoff918> My tower has a 1 TB HDD, dual CPU @ 2.6 GHz w/6 GB RAM. I will be using a 64-bit kernel. I am versed at the command-line, and don't need GNOME, etc. However, seeing as the basic desktop install can incorporate all functions of any server install, I'm willing to go that route if the energy consumption would benefit me.
[00:25] <setuid> geoff918, aieeeee
[00:25] <bjsnider> setuid, that is impossible
[00:25] <setuid> don't paste
[00:25] <lukus> yofel, good stuff
[00:25] <geoff918> oops, didn't mean all that, sorry
[00:25] <Lonely-Troll> geoff918 What you DOING????
[00:26] <Hellow> geoff918: For pasting, use http://pastebin.com/
[00:26] <Lonely-Troll> Someone kill geoff918
[00:26] <setuid> bjsnider, 100% reproducible on two T61p units (different bios versions) and an X61s
[00:26] <Hellow> And, version of nvidia-current in Ubuntu Lucid is 195.36.15-0ubuntu1.
[00:26] <geoff918> this would be better: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9006250&posted=1#post9006250
[00:26] <Lonely-Troll> And, version of nvidia-current in Ubuntu Lucid is 200.36.15-0ubuntu1.
[00:27] <Hellow> Lonely-Troll: ...wait, what?
[00:27] <lukus> I installed the nvidia vdpau extensions the other day .. they make quite a difference to video
[00:27] <yofel> Hellow: it's a troll...
[00:27] <setuid> geoff918, I use EarthWATTS PSUs... when running low workloads or idle, it's less than a 40W bulb
[00:27] <Lonely-Troll> Hellow What what what&
[00:27] <bjsnider> setuid, how do you know the nvidia driver is causing the hard lockup?
[00:27] <Hellow> yofel: Ah, ok.
[00:27] <Lonely-Troll> yofel I am NOT!!!
[00:27] <abe3k> lukus, what does that do if I may ask  ?
[00:28] <geoff918> setuid: What is EarthWATTS? Is that something available in the repository?
[00:28] <Lonely-Troll> Hellow Don't believe him!!!11
[00:28] <Hellow> Just apt-get update'd, apt-cache policy is returning package candidate version of 195.36.15-0ubuntu1 for nvidia-current.
[00:28] <setuid> bjsnider, Because using nv, under the same exact reproducible conditions that cause it to lock, does not... using upstream nvidia, does not. Using ubuntu-provided nvidia of the same version, does. Every, single, time.
[00:28] <lukus> abe3k, it covers mpeg acceleration on chip afaik
[00:28] <lukus> abe3k, similar to purevideo on windows
[00:28] <geoff918> setuid: Okay, google says it's a power supply
[00:28] <setuid> geoff918, yes, it is
[00:28] <bjsnider> setuid, in lucid or previous distros?
[00:28] <lukus> abe3k, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1037625
[00:28] <abe3k> lukus, cool, do you think it would do a good job on a satellite DVB video ?
[00:28] <setuid> geoff918, I replaced my Duron machine with _two_ amd64 machines, and a 550W EarthWATTs in each, and both machines consume less power than the single Duron did.
[00:29] <yofel> Lonely-Troll: randomly repeating stuff that others posted, being rude and off-topic  all the time make you a troll
[00:29] <Lonely-Troll> lukus, cool, do you think it would do a good job on a satellite DVB video ?
[00:29] <lukus> abe3k, possibly - i think the article mentions mythtv
[00:29] <abe3k> lukus, cool stuffs I'll install it immediately :)
[00:29] <abe3k> lukus, I'm using xine for dvb
[00:29] <Lonely-Troll> yofel I don't do thet!!!111
[00:29] <setuid> geoff918, If you're concerned about power, just get your machines on a solar battery array... charge during the day, run from battery at night
[00:29] <setuid> I'm moving to putting my servers here at home onto solar soon
[00:29] <lukus> Lonely-Troll, you need to find something more interesting to do
[00:30] <Lonely-Troll> lukus For example?
[00:30] <abe3k> setuid, what happens on a rainy day ? ;)
[00:30] <lukus> Lonely-Troll, start by changing your nick to something else - your nick is limiting your behaviour
[00:30] <geoff918> setuid: That would seem a bit extreme. I mean, I have the option of maybe purchasing a Marvell Sheeva Plug (cost about $99)
[00:30] <setuid> abe3k, Solar has advanced quite a bit... as long as there is light, there is power.
[00:30] <Lonely-Troll> lukus Yep, but I am a honest troll
[00:30] <abe3k> setuid, now you have me thinking about it :)
[00:30] <lukus> Lonely-Troll, aim higher
[00:31] <setuid> geoff918, still requires power... I (personally) am trying to get rid of land-line power requirements (part of my migration to living entirely off of a yacht)
[00:31] <bjsnider> setuid, a yacht?
[00:31] <Lonely-Troll> lukus So you are a troll too? :-)
[00:31] <abe3k> setuid, what about internet ??
[00:31] <setuid> abe3k, The newer (very expensive) solar panels can capture power from artificial light too, like street lamps and reflected light from other surfaces.
[00:31] <Lonely-Troll> abe3k internet is evel
[00:31] <Lonely-Troll> *evil
[00:31] <setuid> bjsnider, Yes, trying to reduce my entire living into an amount I can fit on a yacht
[00:31] <Hellow> Lonely-Troll: Your packets are transversing the internet right now.
[00:31] <abe3k> setuid, 3g connection ?
[00:32] <setuid> abe3k, Or satellite
[00:32] <setuid> Depends how far off-shore I am
[00:32] <lukus> setuid, won't you have a mooring?
[00:32] <abe3k> setuid, as downlink you mean
[00:32] <bjsnider> setuid, sounds awesome. i love boats
[00:32] <lukus> i'd like a houseboat
[00:32] <setuid> bjsnider, Here's my post on that process: http://blog.gnu-designs.com/how-to-become-a-high-tech-minimalist
[00:32] <Lonely-Troll> Hellow Noup, I use a signals bonfireэы like an indians
[00:32] <epkugelmass> has anyone tried to install lucid beta 1 in virtualbox? i can't get past the 'try ubuntu..install ubuntu' screen
[00:33] <glaucous> hello.  can anyone help me make lucid stop spinning my fan?
[00:33] <glaucous> epkugelmass, turn off acpi support and lucid will run in virtualbox
[00:33] <epkugelmass> glaucous, thanks!
[00:33] <Lonely-Troll> glaucous use hammer
[00:33] <glaucous> epkugelmass, you're welcome.  it's a known bug and already fixed upstream
[00:33] <bjsnider> setuid, between the nvidia installer and the ubuntu package the only variance is how the issue of the replacement of mesa is handled, which ubuntu has dealt with in diversions or alternatives
[00:34] <abe3k> glaucous, shouldn't that be setup from the bios ?
[00:34] <geoff918> As a general concern, would the server kernel or desktop kernel (10.04) be better in terms of power consumption?
[00:34]  * setuid is a Linux dinosaur... going into my 15th year running Linux 
[00:34] <glaucous> epkugelmass, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose/+bug/510571
[00:34] <setuid> geoff918, Used powertop?
[00:34] <abe3k> setuid, gratz
[00:34] <setuid> NAME
[00:34] <setuid>        powertop - program to analyze power consumption on Intel-based laptops
[00:35] <geoff918> setuid: Yes, I've used powertop before, and it seems decent.
[00:35] <setuid> abe3k, yeah, I'll be 39 in July... no spring chicken
[00:35] <setuid> geoff918, Played with /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
[00:35] <geoff918> setuid: The system I'm using is a dual core AMD
[00:35] <glaucous> abe3k, set up my fan in the bios?
[00:35] <geoff918> setuid: No, I haven't played with that. I do know there are some settings (I've come across that in my searches)
[00:35] <abe3k> glaucous, like turn of os fan control
[00:36] <Lonely-Troll> I am hungry
[00:36] <setuid> geoff918, I set mine to ondemand or powersave, and it's using 1/3 the power on my laptops
[00:36] <glaucous> abe3k, I don't recall seeing any option like that, but I'll take another look.
[00:36] <abe3k> setuid, try doing that with an intel i7 :P
[00:36] <Lonely-Troll> Lets stop talk about linux. let's talk about life?
[00:36] <abe3k> glaucous, I'm sure theres a way to do it from ubuntu though
[00:36] <setuid> Lonely-Troll, #ubuntu-offtopic please
[00:36] <setuid> abe3k, Why?
[00:37] <setuid> Are they making i7 laptops yet?
[00:37] <Lonely-Troll> setuid I CAN not
[00:37] <abe3k> setuid, I have to go through 8 processors to change it
[00:37]  * setuid has a kickass Nehalem machine at work... 64 core, 64gb ram 
[00:37] <Lonely-Troll> They kill me
[00:37] <setuid> abe3k, Simple one-liner...
[00:37] <abe3k> setuid, 64 core eh, hows that workin for ya ?
[00:37] <setuid> abe3k, Full gcc build from source, ~20 seconds.
[00:37] <geoff918> setuid: that sounds good, I think I should probably contact HP and see what hardware settings can be tweaked, or what powersaving modes exist in my model. A Google search turned up rather empty on a few tries
[00:38] <abe3k> setuid, hah
[00:38] <Lonely-Troll> setuid, hah
[00:38] <setuid> abe3k, I'm not jojking, that machine SCREAMS
[00:38] <setuid> abe3k, We just put a farm in for an internal cloud computing effort... 8,000 cores
[00:38] <abe3k> setuid, I'm sure it does !
[00:38] <Lonely-Troll> abe3k, I'm not jojking, that machine SCREAMS and EATING CAT'S
[00:38]  * setuid works for $THAT_BIG_BANK
[00:39] <abe3k> echo $THAT_BIG_BANK
[00:39] <Lonely-Troll> echo $THAT_BIG_BANK_OF_SWEIZ
[00:39] <lukus> setuid, 64core?
[00:39] <Lonely-Troll> setuid, 1024core?
[00:40] <Lonely-Troll> Nah...
[00:41] <abe3k> setuid, how many virtual machines can you run on a 64 core machine ? O.o
[00:41] <Lonely-Troll> abe3k a lot!
[00:42] <glaucous> okay, I just changed my bios to
[00:42] <Lonely-Troll>  glaucous Hello!! We are wayting for you!!!
[00:42] <Lonely-Troll>  glaucous how many virtual machines can you run on a 64 core machine ? O.o
[00:42] <kklimonda> abe3k: i/o becomes the bottleneck really fast
[00:42] <glaucous> *enable* "fan always on" and guess what!  the fan is always on now
[00:43] <Lonely-Troll> mpontillo Hello!! We are wayting for you!!!
[00:43] <abe3k> glaucous, is that good or bad ?
[00:43] <glaucous> abe3k, it's bad
[00:43] <glaucous> abe3k, I don't want my fan to spin
[00:43] <Lonely-Troll> mpontillo how many virtual machines can you run on a 64 core machine ? O.o
[00:43] <glaucous> unless it needs to
[00:43] <abe3k> glaucous,  you mean you want it to run on a low rpm right ?
[00:44] <Lonely-Troll> Who wanna eat?
[00:44] <yofel> abe3k: ideally a fan should have 0 rpm unless it's needed
[00:44] <Lonely-Troll> Noone?
[00:45] <Lonely-Troll> abe3k: ideally a fan should have 270 rpm unless it's needed
[00:45] <glaucous> I don't want to hear it.  I haven't had windows on this machine in a few years, but it certainly *did not* spin my fan all the time like this.  I seem to remember karmic not spinning either but now when I boot to it it does
[00:45] <kklimonda> Lonely-Troll: can you please stop that?
[00:45] <abe3k> yofel, that is if your room temp is like what ?
[00:45] <Lonely-Troll> kklimonda Of course, If you wanna to talk with me :)
[00:46] <yofel> abe3k: here on my eeePC the power consumption is so low sometimes that the fan really isn't needed, but it still runs at 50% all the time
[00:46] <kklimonda> Lonely-Troll: I don't and it is not a channel for idle chat
[00:46] <yofel> abe3k: that's really annoying
[00:46] <Lonely-Troll> kklimonda What a shame... *crying*
[00:46] <glaucous> yofel, yes it is annoying
[00:46] <abe3k> yofel, whats the temperature reading of your cpu ?
[00:47] <Lonely-Troll> So maybe you send each other a PM?
[00:47] <glaucous> abe3k, how can I check my cpu temp?
[00:47] <Lonely-Troll> glaucous Use termameter
[00:47] <Lonely-Troll> dreamnid  Hello!!!!
[00:47] <glaucous> Lonely-Troll, use a spell checker
[00:47] <yofel> abe3k: core temperature is usually between 40 and 50 °C, it shouldn't run at all < 40 and only slow at 50°, faster speeds only make sense for >60°
[00:48] <Lonely-Troll> glaucous I am too lazy :-D
[00:48] <Lonely-Troll> Earth core temperature is usually between 40000 and 500000 °C,
[00:48] <glaucous> the fan noise is driving me mad :(
[00:48] <abe3k> glaucous,  try lm-sensors
[00:48] <kklimonda> Lonely-Troll: don't make us call operators to ask you to stop talking..
[00:49] <glaucous> I read something about it being nvidia driver related, but those are not installed (trying out nouveau)
[00:49] <Lonely-Troll> kklimonda Do you think they wanna to talk with me?
[00:49] <lukus> nouveau = open source nvidia drivers?
[00:49] <kklimonda> Lonely-Troll: if you are wondering type !op and find out
[00:49] <yofel> glaucous: could be that nouveau doesn't have fan control either like the open source ati drivers (the fans spin at full speed with ati all the time)
[00:50] <Lonely-Troll> !op  kklimonda
[00:50] <Lonely-Troll> Like this?
[00:50] <Lonely-Troll> It is not works
[00:50] <kklimonda> Lonely-Troll: just !op
[00:50] <lukus> once of the reasons i like nvidia, is their support for linux
[00:50] <Lonely-Troll> And what will be happened?
[00:50] <nightsjammies> when I type ipconfig in the terminal, I get:
[00:50] <glaucous> lukus, yes
[00:50] <nightsjammies> oops.
[00:50] <kklimonda> lukus: their support for linux isn't really that great
[00:50] <lukus> kklimonda, well - they produce drivers regularly
[00:51] <Lonely-Troll> nightsjammies But "ipconfig" it is in Windows!
[00:51] <lukus> kklimonda, even if they are closed source
[00:51] <yofel> kklimonda: it's better than ati... (in the sense of fglrx)
[00:51] <glaucous> yofel, do you think installing the nvidia drivers would help me?
[00:51] <nightsjammies> oops. what do I type for terminal?
[00:51] <lukus> and they release full apis for their drivers and tech
[00:51] <nightsjammies> and I'm in the wrong room. Oh well.
[00:51] <lukus> i like the company a lot
[00:51] <kklimonda> sure, they are better than ATI but still nothing great
[00:51] <Lonely-Troll> nightsjammies Type "kill-all-humans"
[00:51] <nightsjammies> :p
[00:51] <kklimonda> lukus: they do? guys who are writing nouveau would disagree ;)
[00:51] <yofel> glaucous: that's something I can't say, I have a fanless nvidia gpu in my desktop and an intel card in my eeePC
[00:52] <glaucous> this is a laptop, btw.  dunno if that changes anything
[00:52] <abe3k> yofel, 40 and 50 requires fans to run
[00:52] <lukus> kklimonda, well - the drivers are closed source
[00:52] <abe3k> yofel, try lm-sensors and see the rpm and cpu temp from there
[00:53] <lukus> kklimonda, and that's not ideal ... but, they seem to invest in linux to a certain extent maybe
[00:53] <yofel> abe3k: I said core temp, you don't  need a fan running at 40°, where the cpu cooler will maybe be at 30-35
[00:53] <glaucous> I get "lm-sensors: command not found"
[00:53] <nightsjammies> so what do I type in the terminal troll?
[00:53] <lukus> i'd love it if more linux apps made use of the GPU .. via CUDA or Open CL
[00:53] <abe3k> yofel, now my cpu is 56 on my eeepc and the fan is on 890 rpm, I can hardly hear it
[00:53] <lukus> there's a lot that could be done imo
[00:54] <yofel> abe3k: I've been compiling stuff right now, so the core temp is at 57, and the fan running is ok
[00:54] <nightsjammies> to get my ip address?
[00:54] <kklimonda> lukus: I disagree - their drivers are efficient but their support for new linux technologies is negligible
[00:54] <yofel> abe3k: what I mean is that if I power the eeePC on and the cpu is cool and I don't use much power after that the fan shouldn't be running at 1000RPM from the beginning
[00:54] <abe3k> yofel, I think for the fan to be really slow requires 25°
[00:54] <Lonely-Troll> nightsjammies Use google
[00:54] <glaucous> $ sensors
[00:54] <glaucous> acpitz-virtual-0
[00:54] <glaucous> Adapter: Virtual device
[00:54] <glaucous> temp1:       +55.0°C  (crit = +97.0°C)
[00:55] <glaucous> looks a bit cryptic :(
[00:55] <Lonely-Troll> I am using yandex.ru -----> IP
[00:55] <Lonely-Troll> or 2 ip.ru
[00:55] <Lonely-Troll> for information about ip
[00:55] <yofel> abe3k: err, I once was in the train after walking outside in the winter and the fan was still running at 1000RPM even though the notebook was almost frozen
[00:56] <Equs> nightsjammies,  ifconfig
[00:56] <nightsjammies> ahh.
[00:56] <Lonely-Troll> nightsjammies Don't believe him! He is a haker!
[00:56] <hggdh> Lonely-Troll, please stop
[00:56] <abe3k> yofel, only time I really hear my eeepc fan is when the cpu hits 100% load
[00:56] <kklimonda> yofel: my fan in the thinkpad starts spinning when temperature reaches ~54C and then spins at 3300rpm indefinitely :/
[00:57] <Lonely-Troll> nightsjammies Belive noone! Exapt me, of course
[00:57] <abe3k> yofel, thats about it,  the rest of the time the fan is running but with no sound at all
[00:57] <glaucous> kklimonda, how can I see how fast it is spinning?
[00:57] <Lonely-Troll> glaucous use your eyes
[00:57] <kklimonda> glaucous: I use /proc/acpi/ibm/fan
[00:57] <nightsjammies> ...troll, shut up.
[00:57] <kklimonda> !po
[00:58] <kklimonda> argh
[00:58] <kklimonda> !op
[00:58] <yofel> kklimonda: same here, but that's by design I guess
[00:58] <Lonely-Troll> Why me???
[00:58] <hggdh> because you don't stop
[00:58] <Equs> !op | Lonely-Troll
[00:58] <kklimonda> thanks
[00:59]  * yofel has the cpu temp and fan speed always visible in byobu ^^
[00:59] <glaucous> kklimonda, I only have /proc/acpi/fan/FAN/state
[00:59] <nightsjammies> thanks much Equs
[00:59] <Equs> your welcome
[00:59] <kklimonda> glaucous: it probably varies from one hardware vendor to another
[00:59] <abe3k> yofel, I use gkrellm :)
[01:00] <glaucous> I wish I knew more about this stuff
[01:00] <yofel> abe3k: yeah, but I don't like a window always sticking on my desktop (not enough space on my eeePC)
[01:00] <glaucous> I'm going to go deaf here with this fan :(
[01:01] <nightsjammies> the bad thing is that unless I use something on a day to day to day basis, I usually forget it...
[01:01] <abe3k> yofel, use the "alt" key to move the window around :)
[01:01] <CalmvsKhaos> how do you guys get sensor working? I try sudo sensors-detect and it seems to do something or another, then i type sensors, and it says 'No Sensors found! blah blah'
[01:01] <yofel> abe3k: nah, i like having byobu open in yakuake, ony a press of F12 away ;P
[01:01] <yofel> s/ony/only
[01:02]  * yofel needs to clean his KB some time...
[01:02] <nightsjammies> I loved my triple e
[01:02] <abe3k> yofel, always use compressed air :)
[01:02] <yofel> abe3k: my can's empty, need to buy a new one ;)
[01:02] <CalmvsKhaos> yofel, its not nice to kill bacteria, they are living organisms, leave the keyboard alone, and let them grow ;)
[01:02] <Equs> is there a way to move the close max and minimize buttons back to the right side or are we going to have to learn to like them on the left
[01:03] <yofel> CalmvsKhaos: LOL
[01:03] <abe3k> CalmvsKhaos, tree huggers ....
[01:03] <CalmvsKhaos> hehe
[01:04] <CalmvsKhaos> elky, Lonely_Troll is in #ubuntu now just a heads up
[01:04] <elky> ta
[01:05] <happyhobo> Equs: I have the command line to fix that
[01:05] <happyhobo>  gconftool-2 --set "/apps/metacity/general/button_layout" --type string "menu:minimize,maximize,close"
[01:05] <Equs> happyhobo,  thanks
[01:06] <happyhobo> I hate them on the left
[01:06] <Equs> me too
[01:06] <abe3k> happyhobo, makes you feel dizzy
[01:06] <happyhobo> It does abe3k?
[01:07] <abe3k> happyhobo, actually it did
[01:08] <happyhobo> wow
[01:10] <abe3k> I've also noticed one more annoying thing, before using 10.04 the multitouch pad on the eeepc used to have middle click on 2 fingers and right click on 3 now it is reversed, anyway of fixing that ? say from xinput2 ?
[01:11] <abe3k> the scroll still works with two fingers though
[01:12] <setuid> abe3k, re: your last question, not enough... I think they're pushing 150 stateful VMs on that kit
[01:12] <setuid> They can get ~2x that if they're stateless
[01:14] <abe3k> setuid, would be cool to use VMware VMs on  a server and only an IO interface with the users
[01:15] <setuid> abe3k, that's essentially what the stateless nodes are
[01:15] <abe3k> setuid, I don't recall what those interfaces are called
[01:15] <setuid> VMCI?
[01:15] <setuid> http://pubs.vmware.com/vmci-sdk/index.html
[01:16] <abe3k> setuid, yeah those exactly, I've read about SUN's VMCIs they're pretty nifty tools :)
[01:17] <abe3k> setuid, I wonder if you could use thosee VMCIs via wireless instead of an ethernet connection
[01:17] <setuid> When OpenSolaris zones can seamlessly run a full Linux distro, then I'll consider that an option
[01:19] <abe3k> setuid, I think SUN have accomplished mac windows and linux on their VM software
[01:19] <setuid> That's not quite zones though... everyone and their brother has a VM solution these days
[01:20] <setuid> Vendors are getting on the bandwagon... to the point of enforcing a specific VM, or they won't supoprt their product
[01:20] <abe3k> hmm
[01:20] <setuid> Oracle, for example, DOES NOT support their software running on anything but their own VM, period. Microsoft VM? Nope. VMware Enterprise? Nope. Nothing else...
[01:20] <setuid> We give Oracle like $400M a year, and they still refuse to support us... so we're tossing them :)
[01:21] <abe3k> setuid, but I've heard that mySQL is in danger
[01:21] <setuid> We just spent a lot of coin on 8,000 cores, all VMware ESXi backed... and Oracle refused to support that environment. Easy decision... goodbye Oracle ;)
[01:21] <setuid> They're losing their #2 customer. Ahem.
[01:22] <setuid> abe3k, MySQL is in trouble, but the fork is not.
[01:22] <abe3k> setuid, pretty strange I thought major banks use something like SAB
[01:22] <setuid> Oracle, Sybase, DB2... mostly.
[01:23] <setuid> Lots and lots of Oracle.
[01:23] <abe3k> uh huh
[01:23] <setuid> $30M/year in support costs alone, which are _required_
[01:23] <abe3k> lol
[01:23] <setuid> I actually raised that as an issue... why are we paying Oracle $30M/year, and the contract specifically states that they do not support our VMware environment? (red flags and shitstorm ensues)
[01:25] <abe3k> setuid, I think its an issue between VMware and oracle
[01:25] <setuid> A lot of these vendors are getting a kick in the ass from some pretty high-quality OSS software
[01:25] <setuid> WebLogic -> JBOSS, Oracle -> MySQL/MariaDB, etc.
[01:26] <setuid> IBM HTTP Server -> Apache
[01:26] <setuid> The list goes on and on
[01:27] <setuid> A lot of entrenched, proprietary software is being harshly audited... now that money in companies is scarce
[01:27] <abe3k> pretty amazing how they've managed to make their software recognize it's running in a VM
[01:27] <setuid> Not hard to do at all... detecting that you're inside a VM is easy
[01:28] <setuid> dmidecode will give you a pretty big leg up
[01:30] <abe3k> lukus, I've found out that xine has a vdpau support :D
[01:31] <abe3k> lukus, let me see if I could get it working in ubuntu :>
[01:31] <lukus> abe3k, nice - i found it really helped performance on my pc
[01:31] <lukus> abe3k, there are some repos you can add to your sources
[01:31] <setuid> What is this vdpau?
[01:31] <lukus> does most of the work for you
[01:31] <lukus> setuid, i hadn't heard about it until the other day
[01:32] <lukus> allows you make use of nvidia mpeg decoding on hardware
[01:32] <abe3k> I've used the nvidia decoder back in the windows days, it is "crystal" clear decoding
[01:32] <setuid> hrm, I guess I'm already running it... never noticed any difference
[01:32] <lukus> setuid, not necessarily
[01:32] <lukus> you need to install extra
[01:33] <setuid> extra what? it's built into nvidia-173
[01:33] <lukus> nope
[01:33] <abe3k> setuid, try viewing live DVB from your satellite card, you'll notice a big difference
[01:33] <setuid> Then the packager lists it wrong
[01:33] <setuid> nvidia-173 - NVIDIA binary Xorg driver, kernel module and VDPAU library
[01:33] <lukus> setuid, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1037625
[01:33] <lukus> the driver is capable - but that doesn't mean it's being used
[01:34] <histo> yeah I just noticed that
[01:34] <histo> lukus: mines not in use either
[01:34] <abe3k> I think the nvidia driver comes with the API only
[01:35] <lukus> it's worthwhile sorting out
[01:35] <histo> I'm trying to figure out what the recomended driver is that its installing now
[01:35] <histo> lukus: Mine is showing as driver is active but not in use on the 173
[01:36] <setuid> lukus, Not really useful... and I don't see why I'd need it over what already is installed and working
[01:36] <abe3k> lukus, I just want to make sure it'll work on my machine before starting to download stuff and start compiling
[01:36] <histo> setuid: VDPAU?
[01:36] <setuid> histo, yep
[01:36] <histo> setuid: is veery usefull.
[01:36] <setuid> histo, for what?
[01:36] <lukus> well, i installed a repo, which has packages precompiled with VDPAU support enabled
[01:37] <billybigrigger_> does anyone here use virtualbox for itunes???
[01:37] <lukus> setuid, it is useful .. means you can watch HD video without using yr CPU
[01:37] <abe3k> billybigrigger_, doesn't it work with wine ?
[01:37] <histo> setuid: it handles all the graphics for systems like that couldn't handle full output of HD the video card handles the output etc..
[01:37] <billybigrigger_> unless ipod touch/iphones are supported natively now in lucid
[01:37] <histo> setuid: rather than taxing the CPU
[01:37] <billybigrigger_> abe3k, don't think wine has usb support
[01:37] <setuid> Ok yeah, not very useful to me
[01:38] <abe3k> billybigrigger_, I've never owned an iPod :>, I always use my sonyericsson walkman :P
[01:38] <billybigrigger_> work handed out ipod touches so i wasn't complaining :)
[01:38] <histo> what is nvidia accelerated graphics driver (version current)[recommended] in hardware drivers vs. (version 173
[01:38] <histo> ?
[01:38] <abe3k> billybigrigger_, nice
[01:39] <billybigrigger_> yeah company logo engraved on the back, right from apple...they went all out :)
[01:39] <lukus> histo, check the nvnews forum
[01:39] <abe3k> billybigrigger_, I just got me a new nokia N900 it is soooo fine, if you love linux you must have a look  at that device
[01:39] <setuid> billybigrigger_, Sounds like a layoff round is coming ;)
[01:39] <histo> lukus: huh? I'm jsut wondering?
[01:39] <lukus> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=122606
[01:39] <lukus> histo, ^
[01:40] <lukus> 173.14.25
[01:40] <billybigrigger_> setuid, i work on an oil rig, they can fire us if they want haha they won't have anyone to make them money :P
[01:40] <billybigrigger_> so back to my question, before i get yelled at for being offtopic...
[01:40] <billybigrigger_> is there native support for iphones yet? or am i stuck with the virtualbox/itunes route
[01:40] <histo> lukus: that doesn't really answer my question
[01:41] <setuid> billybigrigger_, amarok doesn't support the iphone? I'd be shocked
[01:41] <histo> lukus: what is the difference between the two in the hardware drivers page?  Is one 195 and the other 173?
[01:41] <ZykoticK9> histo, nvidia-current is 195.36-15 (which might have the fan issue - not sure if there have actually been any confirmed linux cases, but it's possible)
[01:41] <setuid> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/iPhone
[01:41] <setuid> ZykoticK9, which fan issue?
[01:41] <kklimonda> histo: the current version is the latest stable version (195) and 173 is 173
[01:41] <lukus> histo, ahh.. they support different devices
[01:41] <histo> ZykoticK9: my laptops on fire with whatever i'm running now anyways
[01:41] <abe3k> I've got this http://blog.mymediasystem.net/avchd/hdtv-with-karmic-koala/ if anyone is interested in dvb acceleration
[01:41] <yofel> ZykoticK9: the fan issue is supposed to be fixed in .15
[01:41] <billybigrigger_> setuid, hmmm....amarok might...im a rythmbox user so ill try it out
[01:42] <histo> lukus: How do I find out which one i'm using now? it said 173 was activated but not in use.  So I clicked on current the recomended one.
[01:42] <setuid> billybigrigger_, rhythmbox is sticks and rocks compared to amarok
[01:42] <ZykoticK9> yofel, thanks - good to know (i never switched actually)
[01:42] <yofel> setuid: there was a bug in the driver that could lead to gpu overheating since the fan was off/too slow
[01:42] <lukus> histo, which card are you using?
[01:42] <histo> lukus: nvm I see 173 in nvidia-settings
[01:42] <billybigrigger_> setuid, ubuntu devs obviously think it's better...i don't get why they give us crap default software
[01:42] <histo> lukus: let me check hold up
[01:42] <setuid> yofel, ah, I control the fan myself with scripts...
[01:42] <yofel> setuid: GPU fan
[01:42] <abe3k> ZykoticK9, I have 15 and there is no fan issue
[01:43] <setuid> yofel, Ok, my GPU has no fan :)
[01:43] <histo> lukus: GeForce 8400M GS
[01:43] <setuid> yofel, My laptop has a discrete (not onboard) nvidia card... no fan
[01:43] <histo> lukus: G86
[01:43] <abe3k> setuid, usb  ? O.o
[01:43] <histo> On my laptop
[01:43] <ZykoticK9> abe3k, i wasn't overly concerned but did keep the GPU hardware monitor on my panel ;)
[01:43] <histo> ZykoticK9: well my laptop is burning up running the 173 driver.
[01:44] <histo> lukus: should I be using 195 then?
[01:44] <setuid> abe3k, No, it's internal, just not built into the motherboard. I lose 1 hour of extra battery life for choosing that option, but the graphics are MUCH nicer than the onboard nvidia that Lenovo offered in place of it.
[01:44] <lukus> histo, http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_195.36.15.html
[01:44] <setuid> histo, I found that 173 is the only one that works for everything, including suspend/resume/hibernate, and not locking up
[01:45] <lukus> histo, ^^ think that 195 is good for you
[01:45] <abe3k> setuid, Nice
[01:45] <histo> lukus: I'm going to try it reboot time
[01:46] <lukus> k
[01:47] <setuid> I'm surprised vdpau isn't the default configuration these days
[01:49] <setuid> Anyone else having their public websites pounded by skipfish scans?
[01:49] <histo> yeah its working with 195 but hardware drivers has a bug.
[01:49] <histo> It shows that nvidia is installed but not in use and i'm using it. Just like it did with the old one
[01:51] <abe3k> histo, if you had that problem, then just install it twice
[01:51] <abe3k> histo, it'll get fixed
[01:51] <Aren> Ok, apparently I'm a complete idiot. I can install Hardy just fine, but when I try Lucid I get nowhere.  I tried the Beta 1 ISO, burned to CD, and get nothing but blackscreens and lockups no matter what 'boot options' I mess with.  I tried the alternative ISO, on my USB with unetbootin...and even to my eye (been using computers for 20+ years) it reads like it's in greek.  Does anyone have any advice for me, other than staying with Hard
[01:51] <histo> abe3k: install what twice?
[01:51] <abe3k> histo, the nvidia driver
[01:52] <histo> abe3k: you can only activate it once
[01:52] <abe3k> histo, you're using the repository ?
[01:52] <histo> No i'm saying there is a bug in hardware drivers
[01:52] <histo> System > admin > hardware drivers
[01:52] <histo> I have the driver activated but it says its not in use. Even though I know its in use.
[01:52] <abe3k> histo, yeah so you're using the repositories
[01:53] <histo> abe3k: in a round about way use
[01:53] <histo> yes
[01:53] <kklimonda> Aren: what graphic card do you have?
[01:53] <abe3k> histo, I was talking about the drivers you download from nvidia.com
[01:53] <histo> abe3k: oh no i'm not using those
[01:54] <setuid> Aren, Add vga=0 to your kernel boot line, remove any quiet or splash items
[01:54] <kklimonda> !daily
[01:54] <Aren> kklimonda: Aside from the RAM being maxed out and a larger hard drive being installed, this laptop conforms to the specifications for a Toshiba Satellite laptop, model number A105-S2131.
[01:54] <Aren> setuid: Translate to newbie-ese?  My experience with Ubuntu is less than three months in total.
[01:55] <abe3k> Aren, did you get a busybox message by any chance ?
[01:55] <Aren> abe3k: What are you talking about?
[01:55] <ZykoticK9> histo, the nvidia and hardware drivers showing sorta incorrect/confusing stuff has been an issue for a long time.  if you want to comb through "lspci -vnvn" and find your VGA card it will say "Kernel driver in use: nvidia" or nouveau if that's what's running - but it will be nvidia i bet
[01:55] <histo> Much better with the 195 driver
[01:56] <robin0800> Aren: have you tried the alternate as a booting CD? note the Beta1 cd is broken so you will need an internet connection for updates
[01:56] <histo> ZykoticK9: thats what i'm saying I can see in nvidia-settings that I'm running 195 and glxinfo reports the same
[01:56] <histo> ZykoticK9: but hardware drivers is goofy saying its not in use even though I activated it throught here.
[01:56] <ZykoticK9> histo, long standing issue man
[01:57] <setuid> Mine says I'm not running 173, but I am
[01:57] <Aren> robin0800: I used the alternate as a Live USB, I don't have a ton of blank CD-Rs I can use here.  Already down to less than a dozen, so any attempt to install up to Lucid must be done via a 2 gig USB drive.
[01:57] <setuid> OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
[01:57] <setuid> OpenGL renderer string: Quadro FX 570M/PCI/SSE2
[01:57] <setuid> OpenGL version string: 2.1.2 NVIDIA 173.14.22
[01:57] <lukus> histo, i installed my driver manually
[01:57] <lukus> and removed all associated deb packages
[01:57] <abe3k> me too :)
[01:58] <abe3k> been using the nvidia.com drivers since forever
[01:58] <robin0800> Aren: I think it will still appear as broken
[01:58] <lukus> yeah, me too abe3k - they work well
[01:58] <lukus> only problem is, having to reinstall when the kernel upgrades
[01:58] <Aren> robin0800: So I'm stuck with Hardy Heron, then?
[01:58] <abe3k> lukus, thats when I go check for newer versions ;)
[01:59] <lukus> heheh
[01:59] <abe3k> lukus, I only update them when a kernel update is up
[01:59] <abe3k> lukus, I've installed mine today since theres been some kernel update on karmic
[02:00] <robin0800> Aren: My advice would be to download a daily alternate iso and use that
[02:00] <kklimonda> Aren: if you have been using linux for 3 months than the safest route is to wait until 10.04 is released
[02:00]  * setuid agrees
[02:01] <robin0800> kklimonda: what makes you think that will be better given the Beta1 farce
[02:01] <abe3k> anyone knows if there's a chance of gnome 3 coming with 10.04 ?
[02:01] <Aren> kklimonda: Then any intentions I have to help with Ubuntu's beta is in vain.  Very well then.  See you again in early May, when I am trying to install and fail again.
[02:01]  * Aren disconnects.
[02:02] <abe3k> awe :(
[02:02] <ChogyDan> abe3k: i dont think so
[02:02] <setuid> abe3k, it's due to be
[02:02] <abe3k> ChogyDan, the only thing I know about gnome 3 is youtube videos tbh, but they've looked nice
[02:02] <kklimonda> robin0800: there have been any problems with beta1 release? not with updates that came just after beta, with beta iso
[02:02] <robin0800> abe3k: not ready in time I hear
[02:03] <AbortD> can anyone help me install the lucid kernel in karmic
[02:03] <abe3k> robin0800, cool thanks
[02:03] <ChogyDan> AbortD: what for?
[02:04] <asymptote> My machine won't boot - it says "Mount: mount point /proc/bus/usb does not exist" - can someone help me fix this ?
[02:04] <AbortD> to solve issues with my graphics driver
[02:04] <AbortD> i run a ati radeon 3200 hd
[02:04] <jandersatl> Hello. I'm running 10.04 with kernel 2.6.32-16 generic kernel. Having some issues with invisible mouse pointer. Is it ok to upgrade to the latest stable kernel, 2.6.33.1, even though it doesn't show up with apt-cache search linux-image?
[02:04] <setuid> AbortD, http://blog.gnu-designs.com/building-custom-kernels-for-ubuntu
[02:04] <robin0800> kklimonda: My beta1 iso boots with no panel and no icons hardly a great sucess
[02:04] <kklimonda> AbortD: for 9.10 related questions please check #ubuntu channels, here we are talking about lucid
[02:05] <AbortD> kklimonda, they sent me here
[02:05] <asymptote> robin0800: there's a post in the ubuntuforums.org Lucid Testing thread about this issue
[02:05] <AbortD> since i want the lucid kernel
[02:05] <ChogyDan> jandersatl: yeah, it is fine, you just wont get the ubuntu patches, so you may run into problems
[02:05] <campassi> anyone have screenshots of 10.04 beta netbook edition?
[02:05] <kklimonda> robin0800: that doesn't really sound like beta1 to me, rather like beta1 + broken gnome-panel package. but this particular issue is going to be fixed for the stable release so your comment have no merit.
[02:06] <asymptote> My machine won't boot - it says "Mount: mount point /proc/bus/usb does not exist" - can someone help me fix this ?
[02:06] <setuid> hrm, so wait... menus in gnome 3 have no sub-menus?
[02:06] <abe3k> I'm running the desktop edition on my eeepc
[02:06] <ChogyDan> AbortD: I'm running karmic with a lucid kernel from my ppa.  You are welcome to use it, but then you get to test my ppa :)
[02:06] <setuid> That'll rapidly get annoying
[02:06] <setuid> Why are they removing features and flexibility, for yet more eye-candy?!
[02:06] <jandersatl> ChogyDan: hmmm..maybe I should wait then. The invisible mouse thing is driving me nuts though.
[02:06] <robin0800> asymptote: fortunately I have an always on cable connection and just used that to get the updates
[02:07] <bjsnider> setuid, what card is this you're running the 173 driver on?
[02:07] <setuid> bjsnider, see above...
[02:07] <asymptote> robin0800: I don't know what that means
[02:07] <ChogyDan> jandersatl: just install it from the mainline ppa, and keep the old kernel.  It is quite painless to test out
[02:07] <asymptote> robin0800: or why you are telling me
[02:07] <kklimonda> setuid: I'm pretty sure that gnome-shell is just a elaborate joke
[02:07] <setuid> bjsnider, OpenGL renderer string: Quadro FX 570M/PCI/SSE2
[02:08] <jandersatl> ChogyDan: good point. thanks
[02:08] <AbortD> ChogyDan,  whats your ppa
[02:08] <bjsnider> setuid, you should be using the 195 driver
[02:08] <setuid> bjsnider, Why?
[02:08] <ChogyDan> AbortD: https://launchpad.net/~chogydan/+archive/ppa
[02:08] <setuid> Every time I jump from 173, I regret it
[02:09] <AbortD> what is a ppa  i never messed with a kernel before
[02:09] <abe3k> setuid, you can always reinstall the older one back
[02:09] <bjsnider> setuid, because that is the driver nvidia has designed to support your hardware
[02:09] <setuid> Either suspend/resume fails to work, it overheats and hard-locks, or the driver flat-out fails to work at all
[02:09] <asymptote> robin0800: or why you are telling me
[02:09] <asymptote> My machine won't boot - it says "Mount: mount point /proc/bus/usb does not exist" - can someone help me fix this ?
[02:09] <AbortD> ChogyDan, is that the original kernel or is it editted
[02:09] <ChogyDan> AbortD: unfortunately, the latest kernel won't install on karmic.  I don't know if you can still install -15.  It is edited
[02:10] <AbortD> i dont mean the latest but this is a ubuntu release or did you compile it
[02:10] <abe3k> asymptote, what happens if you choose recovery mode from the grub menu ?
[02:10] <bjsnider> setuid, the revenue cards like the one you've got are the ones nvidia pays particular attention to
[02:10] <robin0800> kklimonda: I know that problems been fixed I am dismayed having delayed beta 1 for a day they did not do better
[02:11] <AbortD> and when i add this it will install the kernel for me?
[02:11] <spw> AbortD,  no. you still have to run sudo apt-get install linux-ck-generic linux-ck-headers-generic
[02:11] <asymptote> abe3k: I can't boot into recovery mode
[02:12] <asymptote> abe3k: it comes to the same error
[02:12] <ZykoticK9> campassi, http://imagebin.org/89859
[02:12] <asymptote> abe3k: I have a post on UF if you want to see the exact message
[02:12] <bjsnider> spw, what does the ck in that string stand for?
[02:12] <abe3k> asymptote, can you access your filesystem from a live cd ?
[02:12] <setuid> bjsnider, Unless there's a bugfix, performance enhancement or other feature add, I don't see a reason to switch. 173 works fine.
[02:13] <ChogyDan> AbortD: spw is sorta correct, but since the latest won't work, you have to pick out the versions, Ill write the command in a sec
[02:13] <spw> bjsnider, no idea, not my package. It's just the instructions on chogydan's ppa.
[02:13] <asymptote> abe3k: of course I can
[02:13] <campassi> thank you very much ZykoticK9
[02:13] <asymptote> abe3k: I'm searching all the text files for anything that contains "/prob/bus/usb"
[02:13] <hackeron> E: Couldn't configure pre-depend libplymouth2 for mountall, probably a dependency cycle.
[02:13] <abe3k> asymptote, try to check if anything is messed up in fstab
[02:13] <hackeron> anyone?
[02:13] <setuid> asymptote, Put it in fstab
[02:13] <bjsnider> setuid, 195 accelerates xrender for the first time
[02:14] <AbortD> ChogyDan, thx
[02:14] <setuid> bjsnider, I don't believe I"m actively using xrender anywhere
[02:14] <bjsnider> setuid, but for all the 173 is giving you, you might better use nouveau
[02:14] <setuid> bjsnider, nouveau doesn't support 3D, which I need for vmware workstation (no, not games, it barks if you don't have 3d support though)
[02:15] <abe3k> setuid, is too lazy to download and install 195 :P
[02:15] <setuid> abe3k, No, I don't want to break my machine and set me back hours before work tomorrow morning, when I need to use it
[02:15] <bjsnider> he doesn't have to since it's in nvidia-current
[02:15] <asymptote> abe3k: I'm familiar with fstab - do you know what I should be looking for ?
[02:15] <AbortD> where do i add that pp in other sources?
[02:15] <setuid> bjsnider, Sure do, since I dont' run nvidia-current
[02:15] <abe3k> asymptote, if theres anything pointing to the issue you mentioned, if not do as setuid said and add it to your fs tab
[02:16] <bjsnider> nvidia hasn't touched the 173 blob in so long i can't believe it's stable
[02:16] <setuid> $ dpkg -l | grep nvidia  |wc -l
[02:16] <setuid> 1
[02:16] <ChogyDan> AbortD:  sudo apt-get install linux-ck-headers-2.6.32-15ck linux-ck-headers-2.6.32-15ck-generic linux-ck-image-2.6.32-15ck-generic
[02:16] <bjsnider> does ck stand for con kolivas?
[02:16] <ChogyDan> bjsnider: yes
[02:16] <AbortD> ChogyDan, where do i add this ppa
[02:16] <bjsnider> hahaaa
[02:17] <ChogyDan> :)
[02:17] <asymptote> setuid: you said "put it in fstab" - what do I put in there
[02:17] <asymptote> setuid: just "/proc/bus/usb" ?
[02:17] <asymptote> setuid: I'm just trying to understand this
[02:17] <setuid> none /proc/bus/usb usbfs auto,devmode=0666 0 0
[02:17] <asymptote> setuid: ok I'll try that
[02:18] <setuid> Then do a 'mount -a' and then 'mount | grep usb' and see what shows up
[02:18] <abe3k> asymptote, and if you find that already exist in your fstab just hash it out #
[02:18] <ShawnR> so after updating from alpha3 to beta, nautilus and gnome-panel weren't loading.  I get nautilus working now, but gnome-panel doesn't load until i run it from terminal.  can someone point me towards the right place to look to fixing it?
[02:18] <setuid> I dont' think usbdevfs is even used anymore
[02:18] <abe3k> setuid, he can't boot to his system
[02:18] <setuid> ShawnR, gnome-panel &; gnome-session-save;
[02:18] <abe3k> setuid, I told him to use a livecd
[02:19] <setuid> 'init=/bin/bash', then fix fstab
[02:19] <setuid> or add usbfs to the initrd
[02:19] <asymptote> abe3k: and setuid do you have anything like that in your fstab ?
[02:19] <setuid> asymptote, Nope
[02:19] <ChogyDan> AbortD: I updated the webpage, run the command there
[02:19] <abe3k> asymptote, no
[02:19] <asymptote> just seems odd that this happened to me
[02:20]  * setuid tempts fate and tries to install nvidia 195 from the Ubuntu repo
[02:20] <setuid> I know I'm going to regret this
[02:20] <abe3k> setuid, I hope you won't
[02:21] <asymptote> setuid: abe3k ok thanks I'll edit it and try rebooting
[02:21] <abe3k> setuid, worst case is that it won't run, and you'll reinstall the older one
[02:21] <AbortD> sudo apt-get install linux-ck-headers-2.6.32-15ck linux-ck-headers-2.6.32-15ck-generic linux-ck-image-2.6.32-15ck-generic
[02:21] <AbortD> that is to install the kernel?
[02:21] <bjsnider> this is the number of kernel lockups the nvidia driver has caused on my system in the past 3 years: 0
[02:21] <abe3k> setuid, just make sure yoou have the older onr .run file before you start with the 195
[02:21] <setuid> bjsnider, I'm well over 100 in the same timeframe
[02:21] <kklimonda> bjsnider: btw if nouveau is supposed to support just as much cards as nv but then why so many people complain about it?
[02:22] <setuid> kklimonda, nouveau _is_ nv...
[02:22] <setuid> unless by 'nv' you meant 'nvidia'
[02:22] <bjsnider> kklimonda, i'd have to know what the complaints are, beyond "no 3d"
[02:22] <AbortD> ChogyDan, didnt work after putting that in my repos
[02:22] <robin0800> ShawnR: Run sudo aptitude update and sudo aptitude safe-upgrade to get the aprox 120 updates they forgot to put in the beta1 iso
[02:22] <bjsnider> it's certainly better than the disatrous nv driver
[02:22] <ChogyDan> AbortD: make sure to run sudo apt-get update
[02:22] <abe3k> setuid, and when you install it, try installing it twice, it just detects symbolic links better that way O.o
[02:22] <kklimonda> bjsnider: mostly about getting black screen and no X
[02:23] <ShawnR> i ran updates last night, i haven't tried safe-upgrade before, i'll try that, thanks
[02:23] <setuid> I just wish I could get my 1920x1200 bootup console back
[02:23] <setuid> having to be forced at 80x25 is painful
[02:23] <AbortD> ChogyDan, nothing
[02:23] <bjsnider> kklimonda, sounds like the nvidia blob to me
[02:23] <asymptote> exit
[02:23] <asymptote> quit
[02:23] <ChogyDan> AbortD: now run this install command
[02:23] <kklimonda> bjsnider: also does choosing "safe video" or however it's called right now disables nouveaufb?
[02:23] <bjsnider> with nouveau you give up 3d but gain kms
[02:24] <AbortD> sudo apt-get install linux-ck-headers-2.6.32-15ck linux-ck-headers-2.6.32-15ck-generic linux-ck-image-2.6.32-15ck-generic ?
[02:24] <bjsnider> kklimonda, i don't know what you're referring to
[02:24] <ChogyDan> AbortD: yes
[02:24] <bjsnider> ChogyDan, have you got a kolivas .33 kernel in there?
[02:24] <AbortD> i did and it said not found
[02:25] <ChogyDan> bjsnider: no.  I will work on that when Ubuntu releases a .33
[02:25] <bjsnider> ChogyDan, the kernel team ppa has builds of it
[02:25] <kklimonda> bjsnider: some people won't be able to even launch livecd due to nouveau not supporting their hardware - can they just choose safe graphics mode at the boot time and use vesa X driver and get no KMS and no nouveau frame buffer?
[02:25] <bjsnider> i'm running one now
[02:25] <ChogyDan> bjsnider: really? where?  not the mainline ppa
[02:27] <bjsnider> kklimonda, could just be a lack of pciid or something like that. i think nouveau has the potential to support everything. but nv has the same issues, considering that nvidia spends 5 minutes a year working on it
[02:27] <abe3k> I'm really liking this gbrain game lol
[02:27] <AbortD> :/
[02:29] <bjsnider> ChogyDan, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.33/
[02:29] <kklimonda> bjsnider: the question is more general - now that we have 3 drivers that support KMS but not on all hardware is it possible to turn it off for the installation time with a nice switch without manually editing kernel command line? I agree that nv is bad and nouveau is better but people aren't going to care - for them if it doesn't work then it is our fault
[02:29] <AbortD> ChogyDan,  any ideas
[02:30] <bjsnider> kklimonda, kms can be turned off with a kernel boot parameter
[02:30] <ChogyDan> AbortD: go here and download the packages manually: http://ppa.launchpad.net/chogydan/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-ck/
[02:31] <AbortD> ChogyDan, which one.......
[02:32] <ChogyDan> bjsnider: my understanding is that those packages don't have any of the ubuntu patches, like dkms.  So I don't know how worth it it is.
[02:32] <AbortD> 2.6.32-15 amd64?
[02:32] <ChogyDan> AbortD: i386
[02:33] <AbortD> i'm running karmic 64
[02:33] <ChogyDan> oh, then yeah
[02:33] <AbortD> :P
[02:34] <AbortD> can i just open it in gdebi?
[02:34] <ChogyDan> AbortD: you may just want to use the mainline ppa, since this is getting too complicated.  The mainline may work better
[02:34] <AbortD> :P
[02:34] <AbortD> soooo how do i do that then
[02:36] <ChogyDan> AbortD: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/MainlineBuilds
[02:37] <ChogyDan> AbortD: and if that is confusing, just install the lucid beta
[02:38] <AbortD> haha tried lucid beta got a jockey-gtk error i couldnt even google
[02:40] <setuid> I knew I'd regret that
[02:40] <ShawnR> thanks robin0800 that did the trick :)
[02:41] <robin0800> kklimonda: KMS can also be turned off in xorg.conf not that that helps because on a clean install this file is not present
[02:41] <setuid> bjsnider, 195 (inside nvidia-current) does NOT work
[02:41] <setuid> gdm attempts to load, flickers the screen to black a few times, then dies with no errors, no warnings, just refuses to load up X at all
[02:42] <bjsnider> setuid, did you have the nvidia-installer on that system prior to this?
[02:42] <setuid> bjsnider, Just the 173 package
[02:42] <bjsnider> the nvidia-173 package int he repos?
[02:42] <setuid> Yes
[02:43] <setuid> I'm going to try Nvidia's version: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_amd64_195.36.15.html
[02:43] <setuid> If that fails, I'm rolling back to 173
[02:43] <bjsnider> you can't use the nvidia instaler in lucid
[02:43] <setuid> I've done it before, by bypassing the installer's detection
[02:44] <bjsnider> you've done it on lucid before?
[02:44] <setuid> With 185, yes.
[02:44] <setuid> Not with 195 though
[02:44] <bjsnider> ok, then all bets are off
[02:44] <setuid> Why's that?
[02:44] <bjsnider> you can't do that and expect things to work afterwards
[02:45] <bjsnider> the nvidia-installer is too far away from the xorg/mesa system in lucid
[02:45] <quentusrex> Can someone help me with a network driver issue?
[02:45] <setuid> Ok, then I'll roll back to 173, because nvidia-current is definitely non-functional
[02:45] <bjsnider> use it once and you've probably condemned yourself to using it for the forseeable future, unless you do a wipe & reload
[02:45] <setuid> Good news is that I got my 1920x1200 consoles back though
[02:45] <quentusrex> I've been tracking this bug since 8.10 and I think it is still in 10.04
[02:45] <setuid> quentusrex, Reported it?
[02:45] <quentusrex> Network chip RTL8111D has an unstable driver
[02:45] <quentusrex> setuid, I have reported it.
[02:46]  * quentusrex goes and gets the link
[02:46] <quentusrex> https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/347711
[02:46] <quentusrex> I have this motherboard: http://www.gigabyte.us/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=3161&ProductName=GA-P55-UD4P
[02:46] <setuid> What's the issue?
[02:46] <setuid> I can't load up a browser to check that url
[02:47] <quentusrex> I have kvm running virtual machines, this all works. If I have any of the virtual machines max out my gigabit network at 40MB/s then 'something happens' and the server becomes unresponsive.
[02:48] <quentusrex> I have reproduced the issue with out kvm
[02:48] <setuid> quentusrex, tried setting MTU to 1492?
[02:48] <bjsnider> setuid, it would be good if you could report that "quirk" to nvidia
[02:48] <quentusrex> but since I can test it more easily with kvm I do that.
[02:48] <setuid> bjsnider, I'll narrow it down next weeekend, not on the night before wrk :)
[02:48] <quentusrex> The problem is easily 'fixed' with "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart"
[02:48] <quentusrex> and the network comes back
[02:49] <setuid> Right, try lowering the mtu
[02:49] <quentusrex> but after it gets up high again, it crashes out.
[02:49] <setuid> and disable wol
[02:49] <Spirits-Sight> why would after 2 week gparted, parted, and udisk be held back from updating? on two differnet system
[02:49] <Spirits-Sight> ?
[02:49] <setuid> bjsnider, http://pastebin.ca/1848880
[02:49] <setuid> Seen that before?
[02:50] <setuid> Started happening about 3 days ago, after the "bad" updates came down
[02:50] <Spirits-Sight> how does one fix it?
[02:50] <yofel> Spirits-Sight: no idea, but fixing it is easy
[02:51] <quentusrex> setuid, I have set the mtu to 1492. I'm stressing it out now
[02:51] <quentusrex> It usually will crash very quickly.
[02:51] <yofel> Spirits-Sight: for udisks remove devicekit-disks, it's been replaced, for parted make it install libparted0 (will remove libparted)
[02:51] <setuid> quentusrex, I'd be curious to see if it takes longer, or stops crashing altogether
[02:51] <bjsnider> setuid, no
[02:52] <yofel> Spirits-Sight: you should use synaptic or aptitude/apt-get to do that
[02:52] <quentusrex> setuid, if you are around in here I'll let you know
[02:52] <setuid> quentusrex, I'm going to reboot, but I'll be back in a few minutes
[02:53] <quentusrex> thanks
[02:53] <nightsjammies> ##apple Cannot send to channel
[02:53] <Spirits-Sight> yofel: done :-)
[02:53] <nightsjammies> ##apple Cannot send to channel
[02:53] <Spirits-Sight> thanks
[02:53] <nightsjammies> how do I fix that?
[02:54] <yofel> nightsjammies: what were you trying to do?
[02:54] <kklimonda> nightsjammies: register your nick
[02:54] <kklimonda> (most likely response)
[02:55] <nightsjammies> yeah, that's right. what's the command for that?
[02:55] <kklimonda>  /msg nickserv help
[02:55] <ZykoticK9> !register > nightsjammies
[02:55] <nightsjammies> thanks much :)
[02:56] <setuid> yay, 173 works again
[02:57] <quentusrex> setuid, it crashed.
[02:57] <MikeChelen> type /nickserv help
[02:57] <setuid> quentusrex, Same spot again?
[02:58] <quentusrex> yup
[02:58] <quentusrex> want any debug info?
[02:58] <setuid> Nah, what's the chipset and driver again?
[02:59] <quentusrex> I have this motherboard: http://www.gigabyte.us/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=3161&ProductName=GA-P55-UD4P
[02:59] <quentusrex> lsmod |grep r816           r8168                 101556  0
[03:00] <quentusrex> I just built and installed the new driver
[03:01] <abe3k> cya guys, gnight
[03:01] <quentusrex> setuid, from here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1022411&page=3
[03:03] <setuid> quentusrex, Just a sec... 'apt-get autoremove' just removed a bunch of in-use, critical packages
[03:03] <setuid> ...including 2 of my browsers
[03:04] <quentusrex> fun, fun
[03:04] <yofel> setuid: autoremove shouldn't remove anything that something else depends on
[03:04] <setuid> Life on the bleeding edge... carry bandages.
[03:04] <kklimonda> nor anything installed manually
[03:04] <setuid> yofel, It did, reinstalling all of them now
[03:04] <yofel> setuid: what did you remove before that?
[03:05] <setuid> yofel, nothing
[03:05] <setuid> bsh epiphany-browser-data gir1.0-freedesktop gir1.0-gconf-2.0 gir1.0-glib-2.0 gir1.0-gstreamer-0.10 gir1.0-gtk-2.0 groovy ivy junit4 libasm2-java libass4 libcommons-logging-java libgirepository1.0-0 libhamcrest-java libjline-java libmockobjects-java libnetpbm10 libruby1.8 libservlet2.5-java libxpp3-java libxstream-java mplayer-nogui python-eggtrayicon python-gtkmozembed
[03:05] <setuid> Those were autoremoved, and the epiphany and lib* ones were required by other packages (including epiphany)
[03:06] <setuid> quentusrex, So this new driver works?
[03:06] <quentusrex> setuid, breaks differently
[03:06] <yofel> well, if epiphany is removed the libs aren't needed anymore, but the fact stays that autoremove will not remove manually installed packages and packages that other packages depend on
[03:07] <setuid> yofel, I never removed epiphany, but it removed all of the other packages that epiphany required... like libgir and epiphany-data
[03:08] <Kano> why does mounting in dolphin not work on hd insall
[03:08] <Kano> using gnome it works
[03:08] <yofel> Kano: mounting of *what*?
[03:08] <Kano> hd partitions not usb
[03:08] <Kano> as they are not in the fstab this is suboptimal
[03:10] <yofel> setuid: well, check if epiphany-browser is installed then, because it shouldn't remove -data or libgir... if -browser is installed
[03:10] <quentusrex> setuid, So, no the driver is no better than the previous one.
[03:11] <Kano> yofel: did nobody try that?
[03:12] <yofel> Kano: what error do you get?
[03:12] <Kano> 1000 not allowed
[03:13] <Kano> in the status window of dolphin
[03:13] <Kano> for every hd partition
[03:13] <yofel> ok, confirmed
[03:13] <yofel> this did work once in lucid...
[03:13] <yofel> argh
[03:13] <Kano> usually it should ask for pw
[03:16] <yofel> Kano: bug 528907
[03:17] <Kano> maybe udisks is not compiled against policykit
[03:17] <Kano> or is still hal used?
[03:17] <yofel> Kano: kde still uses hal
[03:18] <yofel> Kano: see the error message
[03:18] <Kano> well check if hal is configured to build against policykit
[03:18] <Kano> bye
[03:19] <robin0800> yofel: why are you using hal its been dropped by lucid
[03:20] <yofel> robin0800: it's not been dropped by lucid, it's been dropped by gnome
[03:21] <robin0800> yofel: thats not what the beta1 release note states
[03:21] <yofel> robin0800: run 'apt-cache rdepens hal' in a terminal if you want to know what packages still need it
[03:21] <yofel> *rdepends
[03:22] <yofel> robin0800: yes, the Ubuntu release notes, and Ubuntu uses gnome
[03:22] <BoondoKlife> yofel: Just found that rdepends command. soooo useful
[03:22] <yofel> robin0800: you won't find that on the kubuntu release notes
[03:26] <robin0800> yofel: so they haven't realy got rid of it have they perhaps just from the booting part
[03:28] <yofel> robin0800: hal isn't started on boot anymore but started by dbus when needed. As long as you just use the default system it shouldn't be installed afaik
[03:30] <robin0800> yofel: and will be called if I use any files from the rdepends list?
[03:32] <yofel> robin0800: it should be (note that rdepends doesn't make a difference between depens/recommends/suggests)
[03:32] <yofel> so not all apps in the list will actually force you to install hal
[03:32] <wgrant> hal was gone for a while.
[03:33] <wgrant> But it's back in the default installation, thanks to pitivi (which Recommends it).
[03:33] <yofel> oh, haha
[03:35] <robin0800> yofel: I can see the Xog.config file coming back so they can disable KMS
[03:35] <yofel> lol
[03:35] <yofel> wait, you have to disable kms with a kernel parameter, or can you do that in xorg.conf?
[03:37] <robin0800> yofel: yes its one of the options .... #Option     "FBTexPercent"       	# "0"
[04:02] <orbisvicis> how do I change ubuntu versions?
[04:02] <orbisvicis> probably some lucid package changed it, but I would like it back to hardy
[04:02] <orbisvicis> the "official" name, wherever that's kept
[04:11] <kklimonda> orbisvicis: what versions do you mean?
[04:13] <orbisvicis> the versions shown by lsb_release,/etc/issue,/etc/apt.source.list etc.. just in case i decide to use do-release-upgrade
[04:14] <orbisvicis> currently ubuntu thinks it is lucid
[04:14] <orbisvicis> * not a very lucid conclusion :|
[04:15] <kklimonda> and it's not lucid?
[04:15] <orbisvicis> no, atm it is mostly hardy iirc
[04:16] <kklimonda> Ubuntu is not really designed to be "mostly" one release
[04:16] <orbisvicis> i know
[04:16] <orbisvicis> unfortunately
[04:17] <orbisvicis> i simply figured, with lucid around the corner, the do-upgrade-tool should start working
[04:17] <kklimonda> have you tried do-release-upgrade -d ?
[04:17] <orbisvicis> (it refuses to process when packages are from unreleased versions)
[04:18] <kklimonda> ach
[04:18] <orbisvicis> hm, no
[04:19] <orbisvicis> however, that might not result in the upgrade i need
[04:19] <orbisvicis> a hardy do-upgrade-tool that thinks it is upgrading from lucid -> dev
[04:20] <kklimonda> if you start mixing packages it's pretty hard to get any good results ;)
[04:20] <orbisvicis> heh
[04:20] <kklimonda> you can either clean the installation - i.e. revert all packages to the official versions or just enable lucid repositories, run dist-upgrade and hope for the best
[04:21]  * orbisvicis thinks he should finishing backing up everything first
[04:21] <kklimonda> indeed, this upgrade may be pretty rough in your case ;)
[04:21] <NinoScript> I don't think this is the place to ask this, but anyway: GnomeShell design page says: "Don't unnecessarily rely on metaphor. Especially mechanical-age", can anybody tell me what that means?
[04:22] <orbisvicis> * and not decide things in the wee hours of dawn
[04:22] <orbisvicis> be specific ?
[04:22] <orbisvicis> @ NinoScript:  ^
[04:22] <kklimonda> NinoScript: nope - sounds like gibberish to me
[04:23] <linshine> anyone know how to fix gdm fonts? login screen is all square [] fonts. completely illegible. lucid beta.
[04:23] <NinoScript> kklimonda: that's exactly what my brain said :P
[04:24] <orbisvicis> kklimonda: well thanks for the thoughts
[04:24] <orbisvicis> ill mull it over
[04:24] <linshine> /var/log/gdm logs say this: gdm-simple-greeter[1286]: Pango-WARNING: failed to choose a font, expect ugly output. engine-type='PangoRenderFc'
[04:25] <robin0800> orbisvicis: I think you have to know what mechanical age is a metaphor for and I don't
[04:27] <NinoScript> robin0800: (he left)
[04:29] <NinoScript> the only thing that comes to my mind after reading that, is the typical Nut icon in preferences
[04:36] <jmcantrell> why is lucid so tightly integrated with a specific IM client?
[04:40] <BoondoKlife> jmcantrell: Do you mean prepackaged? You can always install something else.
[04:41] <jmcantrell> BoondoKlife: well, in the preferences, the accounts you setup only apply to empathy
[04:41] <NinoScript> BoondoKlife: I think he's asking about the change status stuff, but would that work with other IMs?
[04:42] <jmcantrell> NinoScript: yes, that too
[04:42] <BoondoKlife> NinoScript: I use pidgin and the status works for that too
[04:43] <BoondoKlife> jmcantrell: Are you talking about the chat accounts or what ever is under you login?
[04:43] <kklimonda> jmcantrell: because it's the empathy tool for setting accounts. every IM has its own
[04:43] <jmcantrell> BoondoKlife: yes. chat accounts
[04:43] <kklimonda> ah, this
[04:43] <kklimonda> jmcantrell: but the more generic answer is that we only have that much people to do the work
[04:44] <BoondoKlife> jmcantrell: Yea that will only work for that, but if you remove it the option goes away.
[04:44] <jmcantrell> i just find the decision to switch to empathy odd. what was wrong with pidgin?
[04:44] <jmcantrell> remove empathy?
[04:44] <BoondoKlife> jmcantrell: yup
[04:44] <jmcantrell> oh i see
[04:45] <BoondoKlife> jmcantrell: I removed it from my systems and installed pidgin
[04:45] <kklimonda> jmcantrell: empathy (or rather telepathy) is a part of the GNOME platform.
[04:45] <jmcantrell> thanks. i'll try that
[05:04] <holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/492392
[05:04] <holstein> i want to apply the patch listed at the bottom of that bug report
[05:05] <holstein> i run patch -0 thepatchfile.patch ??
[05:10] <kklimonda> patch -Np0 < thepatchfile.patch from the main directory of the unpacked source
[05:16] <holstein> thanks kklimonda
[05:16] <holstein> it shouldnt take very long right?
[05:18] <kklimonda> patching? no
[05:18] <kklimonda> few seconds at most
[05:18] <holstein> thats what i was thinking
[05:22] <DanaG> Stupidest computer name I've ever seen:
[05:22] <DanaG> To Be Filled By O.E.M. To Be Filled By O.E.M.
[05:23] <DanaG> That is, manufacturer="To Be Filled By O.E.M." and model="To Be Filled By O.E.M."
[05:26] <rww> my desktop has this :(
[05:37] <ddecator> hello community =)
[05:46] <Damascene> hi
[06:20] <Damascene> what is the problem with swfdec? it's not working with firefox
[06:26] <Admin_> hi guys does anyone here know if this new driver will work with a ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODA4MA
[06:30] <ranjan> what will be the effect of removing HAL from boot
[06:30] <ranjan> how will ubuntu recognize new devices connected
[06:30] <Damascene> did you buy the card yourself or it's pre-installed?
[06:31] <Admin_> it was pre-installed on the laptop
[06:31] <ranjan> what will be the effect of removing HAL from boot
[06:31] <ranjan> how will ubuntu recognize new devices connected
[06:31] <Damascene> ranjan, I don't know. wait till someone who knows answers you
[06:32] <Damascene> Admin_, I think the manufacturer should be contacted and hold responsibility for that
[06:33] <Damascene> every day I hear why ati or nvidia doens't work.
[06:33] <ranjan> Damascene, ok
[06:33] <Admin_> Acer offers no support at for linux .
[06:33] <Admin_> all*
[06:34] <Damascene> if people complains they well have a second thought I guess
[06:34] <kklimonda> ranjan: if application depends on hal it's going to start it when needed
[06:34] <kklimonda> ranjan: all applications but pitivi in the default installation don't use hal at all
[06:35] <Admin_> its a $900 laptop and i really need to get ubuntu back up for school work etc... if i can not get the ATI driver to work tonight i will return the laptop for a refund tomorrow
[06:35] <Admin_> NVidia cards work right out of the box each and every time
[06:36] <Admin_> its only ATI that does not
[06:36] <Damascene> I don't think so
[06:36] <Damascene> intel are the ones supported I guess
[06:36] <kklimonda> Admin_: weren't the new fglrx driver uploaded that supports new kernel and xserver? you can just test it
[06:37] <Admin_> yes they were
[06:37] <DanaG> my ATI works nicely with the open-source drivers from xorg-edgers.
[06:38] <Admin_> what ATI do you have ?
[06:38] <Admin_> mine is the ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470
[06:38] <DanaG> Mobility HD3650.
[06:39] <Admin_> well of course
[06:39] <Damascene> 5470 > 3650
[06:39] <Admin_> right up till HD4800 is supported on the ATI website
[06:39] <Admin_> but these new cards are not
[06:41] <czr_> hmm. on startup. network manager isn't started, instead I have three icons of battery (power manager) in the upper right panel. any ideas?
[06:41] <czr_> an two bluetooth icons
[06:42] <Damascene> I think Dell has better support for linux and some asus laptop at least. is that true?
[06:42] <czr_> I did a system upgrade yesterday.. maybe that was a bad idea (on top of beta 1)
[06:42] <Admin_> yes Dell comes with preshiped ubuntu OS's
[06:43] <Damascene> Acer doesn't ship linux at all?
[06:44] <Admin_> no
[06:44] <DanaG> hmm, I do think HD5xxx is better-supported with this driver (a prerelease 10.4)
[06:44] <ddecator> czr_: your network isn't working at all, or the applet just doesn't show up?
[06:44] <Admin_> they do not even support it .
[06:44] <czr_> ddecator, network not working also.
[06:45] <ddecator> czr_: since you upgraded, can you verify that network manager is installed and let me know what version is installed?
[06:45] <Damascene> Admin_, it would have been better if you checked before you buy
[06:45] <Damascene> you could have run a live cd at least
[06:46] <ranjan> kklimonda, ok...i heard that banshee also uses hal...
[06:46] <Admin_> in fact when i told the ppl who sold me the laptop that i was going to install ubuntu they said it would void the in store and Acer Waranity
[06:46] <Admin_> well i did
[06:46] <Admin_> i had a destop with a HD5750
[06:47] <Admin_> and worked perfectly with ubuntu 9.10
[06:47] <czr_> ddecator, 0.8-0ubuntu2
[06:47] <ddecator> czr_: yup, that's the latest build...
[06:47] <czr_> also, from syslog I see something weird (although not sure whether it's normal, since I didn't look at syslog when everything worked):
[06:47] <Admin_> never gave it a thought that a mobility hd5xxx would not work
[06:49] <czr_> (eth1): deactivating device (reason: 2)
[06:49] <czr_> ddecator, is there a way to start the applet?
[06:49] <Damascene> Admin_, I think you might find some work around to make it work. but not with it's full feature
[06:49] <czr_> can't add it to panel from the regular "add" interface, it's not listed there.
[06:50] <Damascene> nm-applet = network manager applet
[06:51] <czr_> hmm. there's an instance of it already running
[06:52] <ddecator> czr_: it looks like network-manager-gnome has the frontend for the network manager, but this isn't my best area =\
[06:52] <Admin_> ok well i will give ubuntu 10.4 beta 1 i try and see what happens
[06:52] <Admin_> thanks guys hope to see you soon
[06:57] <TrueSongMedia> So is 10.04 going to have the WM (Min, Max, Close) buttons back on the right where they should be?
[06:57]  * czr_ arghs for the lack of the nm-applet.
[06:57] <czr_> this blows .. -> smoke.
[06:59] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: not likely
[06:59] <TrueSongMedia> kklimonda: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/23899/
[07:00] <TrueSongMedia> If they don't move them, this will be the single worst mistake in Ubuntu's history.
[07:00] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: ubuntu is not democracy
[07:00] <TrueSongMedia> Just look at that split. People hate them on the left.
[07:00] <TrueSongMedia> Didn't say it is, kklimonda
[07:00] <TrueSongMedia> but if this isn't fixed, it will lose a LOT of users
[07:01] <Damascene> could any one test swfdec?
[07:01] <kklimonda> I doubt it
[07:01] <Damascene> it's not working fo rme
[07:01] <Damascene> for me
[07:02] <TrueSongMedia> good article regarding the topic: http://digitizor.com/2010/03/06/is-ubuntu-having-an-identity-crisis/
[07:05] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: the discussion about it here is pretty much poinless as we weren't the ones who made the decision.
[07:05] <TrueSongMedia> I didn't say you did, kklimonda
[07:05] <TrueSongMedia> Now did I.
[07:06] <TrueSongMedia> But this is something people need to be aware of - and, if it's not fixed, switch to something else.
[07:06] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: why would they switch?
[07:07] <TrueSongMedia> Because it's becoming apparent that the Ubuntu developers think very little of their opinions.
[07:07] <TrueSongMedia> The question is: why would they not switch?
[07:07] <TrueSongMedia> I hope this was just an experiment
[07:07] <TrueSongMedia> And that it will be switched by by the release
[07:08] <TrueSongMedia> But if not, it may not go well for Ubuntu as a whole.
[07:09] <kklimonda> the opinion of random people isn't really important - now if there were some people who were good interface designers and who worked with open source projects in the past their opinion would have merit and it would be worth to listen to their opinion
[07:09] <TrueSongMedia> Random people? Random people? Really?
[07:09] <czr_> ddecator, found the issue. I had removed the notification area (was trying to get rid of the extra power/battery icons and so on)
[07:09] <TrueSongMedia> So the USER doesn't matter?
[07:09] <Damascene> I agree on that kklimonda
[07:09] <TrueSongMedia> It doesn't matter what the average USER has to say?
[07:09] <TrueSongMedia> That's arrogance
[07:10] <Damascene> TrueSongMedia, do you know linux mint?
[07:10] <ddecator> czr_: glad you figured it out. sorry i wasn't more help, i still haven't figured out what all has become part of the notification area and everything...
[07:10] <TrueSongMedia> I do. Yes.
[07:10] <Damascene> TrueSongMedia, for god sake it's just theme
[07:10] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: not really - average user have no expertise to say what is a good or bad opinion
[07:10] <TrueSongMedia> No, Damascene It's not. It's a metacity setting
[07:10] <czr_> ddecator, heh, no prob. I'm pretty clueless about gnome in general, I normally write system software and kernel stuff.
[07:10] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: he can only voice his own opinion but opinions are just that - opinions and every person has its own.
[07:10] <TrueSongMedia> kklimonda, well I'm glad I found how little you think of the user.
[07:11] <Damascene> it's only appearance thing I mean
[07:11] <TrueSongMedia> So you really don't care what they think.
[07:11] <TrueSongMedia> Wow.
[07:11] <TrueSongMedia> That's a failure.
[07:11] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: there was one good reason I've heard in this discussion
[07:11] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: that moving buttons to the left place them close to the Activities hot area of the gnome-shell
[07:11] <ddecator> everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there needs to be someone to say "lets do something different" in order for new innovation to take place
[07:12] <Damascene> and coming form mac os is easier now
[07:12] <kklimonda> all other arguments were subjective - most people simply don't like any change.
[07:12] <TrueSongMedia> Which makes it extremely easy to hit the menus - or otherwise
[07:12] <Damascene> and people are more likely to come from mac os than windows I think
[07:13] <TrueSongMedia> Yes, Damascene... I *am* a mac user. But most people who switch are coming from Windows
[07:13] <TrueSongMedia> Ignoring that fact will be detrimental to the OS
[07:13] <TrueSongMedia> and this is not innovation. This is foolishness
[07:13] <TrueSongMedia> At the very LEAST there needs to be an option for the user
[07:13] <Damascene> you are a man with a case I see
[07:13] <TrueSongMedia> But...wait... you don't care about the user
[07:13] <kklimonda> if the people are going to be scared away by the position of buttons there is no hope for Linux on desktops.
[07:13] <ddecator> the difficult part is giving too many options to the user becomes too burdensome for them and less "it just works"
[07:14] <TrueSongMedia> That's the problem. RIght now, it doesn't "just work."
[07:14] <TrueSongMedia> This is a radical departure from what the majority of users know and love.
[07:14] <TrueSongMedia> kklimonda, users are going to be scared away by developers who could change something so central to the OS at any time without their input.
[07:15] <czr_> TrueSongMedia, are you seriously suggesting that the location of the buttons is the primary thing that people use to select their OS?
[07:15] <ddecator> but that's true for windows and mac
[07:15] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: but they are already using system that is developed by people who do changes without their input
[07:16] <TrueSongMedia> czr_ it is one major consideration, indeed. Take Windows vs Mac OS for example.
[07:16] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: you don't believe that, right?
[07:16] <TrueSongMedia> kklimonda, but something so central to the OS like the WM buttons will not be flipped without input
[07:16] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: you are saying that people choose between mac and windows based on the position of window controls?
[07:16]  * Damascene wasted enough time on discussions today
[07:17] <czr_> TrueSongMedia, I find that view rather sad.
[07:17] <TrueSongMedia> No not at all, kklimonda. There are other considerations to take into account. But in my experience, this is one major thing users think about. The user interface is the face of the system. The user needs to be able to work with it.
[07:17] <TrueSongMedia> Why is that, czr_?
[07:18] <TrueSongMedia> Care to offer some constructive input instead of calling my view "sad" ?
[07:18] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: internet has proven that people can adapt to new and unfamiliar user interfaces.
[07:18] <ddecator> it's still fully functional, it's just different from the ordinary. it also allows for adding new innovations to metacity later on
[07:18] <czr_> TrueSongMedia, that you place such value on a single GUI issue and throw away other values like freedom, stable systems, free support and other issues like they don't matter.
[07:18] <alex_mayorga> TrueSongMedia: how is people not able to work because the buttons are on the left?
[07:19] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: and all people who switch to Linux are going to have much bigger issues than the position of buttons
[07:19] <TrueSongMedia> You're putting words in my mouth, czr_. I'm saying that this change is indicative of the mentality of Ubuntu's developers - that the user matters so very little. THAT is the problem here.
[07:19] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: every change to the interface that is being made is being made with user in mind.
[07:19] <TrueSongMedia> kklimonda Not really. Ubuntu was fast becoming something even a long-time Windows user could switch to.
[07:20] <TrueSongMedia> Ha.
[07:20] <alex_mayorga> I do agree that making it modify a gconf just to switch side of them IS a bug
[07:20] <TrueSongMedia> So that's why you don't listen to them?
[07:20] <TrueSongMedia> +1 alex_mayorga
[07:20] <ddecator> ultimately software is a creation of the developers and they can do with it as they want. if users want to contribute to it, they can. but progress would be too slow if there was a poll for all changes
[07:20] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: they do listen to people who have experience in this matter.
[07:20] <czr_> TrueSongMedia, they way that you rant about this single issue gave _me_ the impression that it was a single thing.
[07:20] <Damascene> is TrueSongMedia the first one complaining about that or you just have plenty of free time
[07:20] <alex_mayorga> now imagine giving that feature, you can have the buttons "wherever" you want in 3 clicks
[07:21] <alex_mayorga> not win32 nor osx have that
[07:21] <alex_mayorga> IMHO
[07:21] <TrueSongMedia> I'm not the only one with this view http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/23899/
[07:21] <TrueSongMedia> obviously not, kklimonda
[07:22] <alex_mayorga> or at least doing such a change requieres more hacking powers on win32 and osx
[07:22] <TrueSongMedia> That would work well, alex_mayorga
[07:22] <TrueSongMedia> Yep
[07:22] <ddecator> it's a controversial issue, but i respect the developers for taking the risk of trying something new in hopes of creating something better even with so much backlash
[07:22] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: can you show me the opinion of person who is recognised usability expert in the open source community and who disagree with this change?
[07:22] <TrueSongMedia> The 'too many options' argument doesn't work
[07:23] <TrueSongMedia> kklimonda, just what would you call an "expert" ?
[07:23] <ddecator> the too many options argument comes into play when everyone wants there to be options for everything
[07:23] <TrueSongMedia> Is Ubuntu not a COMMUNITY OS?
[07:23] <TrueSongMedia> By people for people?
[07:23] <ddecator> yes, it is, in the sense that everyone can get involved and contribute
[07:23] <kklimonda> no, that's debian ;)
[07:23] <alex_mayorga> but I'm convinced that something like, this is the new "better" design, do you want it? prompt would be the right thing to do
[07:24] <kklimonda> alex_mayorga: not really
[07:24] <ddecator> yes, but then we get into people wanting a browser ballot, then choosing a theme during install, and so on
[07:24] <TrueSongMedia> I do have to say that I find your disdain for the user appalling
[07:24] <underdev> i can't imagine why this is so controversial- YOU ARE MAKING RADICAL UI CHANGES, MAKE IT EASY TO SWITCH BACK
[07:24] <alex_mayorga> actually I wonder, would dist-upgrade ask you or just stubbornly change your theme?
[07:24] <TrueSongMedia> If the devs can just ignore what the majority of users are asking for...
[07:24] <kklimonda> alex_mayorga: good question
[07:25] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: majority?
[07:25] <czr_> asking is evil. goes against all automation.
[07:25] <TrueSongMedia> Bingo, underdev
[07:25] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: you call some 800 people a majority?
[07:25] <TrueSongMedia> The majority of every discussion I have seen
[07:25] <alex_mayorga> kklimonda: what about users that have "invested" their time to customize their ubuntu appearance already?
[07:25] <ddecator> developers for ubuntu volunteer their time to make their own software. what they decide to do is up to them
[07:25] <TrueSongMedia> Statistics, dear Watson
[07:25] <TrueSongMedia> elementary statistics
[07:26] <underdev> Even windows, who shove whatever down the throats of the public, usually lets you use "classic" look and feel
[07:26] <alex_mayorga> czr_: since when has a prompt prevented automation?
[07:26] <czr_> TrueSongMedia, that single page does not include "keep the new design", so it's not statistics.
[07:26] <kklimonda> alex_mayorga: I'm pretty sure that the theme doesn't change by itself.
[07:26] <czr_> it's an opinion poll.
[07:26] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: it's not statistics - it's a flawed poll
[07:26] <dupondje> czr_: tried the kernel ?
[07:26] <alex_mayorga> kklimonda: that's good I guess
[07:26] <TrueSongMedia> czr_, a simple down vote on the first option would suffice
[07:27] <czr_> alex_mayorga, I don't know how many years of scripting d-i for large PXE environments you have..
[07:27] <TrueSongMedia> it is an exercise in statistics kklimonda. And show me mathematically how it is flawed.
[07:27] <czr_> dupondje, not yet. was having issues with network manager, and ranting here about silly stuff, hold on.
[07:27] <underdev> so seriously, there are arguments that everyone should just learn to love the new look and feel?
[07:27] <ddecator> yes but the most extreme users are the ones answering the poll, so it's skewed
[07:27] <ddecator> all polls of this sort are skewed
[07:27] <Damascene> could some one test swfdec on Lucid please.
[07:27] <Damascene> it's not working for me
[07:28] <TrueSongMedia> Then why does brainstorm exist? Hm? If it's a feature that you like it's probably not "skewed" is it
[07:28] <alex_mayorga> czr_: I guess using PXE on one of my laptops won't classify as "large" certainly :)
[07:28] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: you have based your calculation on a microscopic number of users on the brainstorm page that is visited mostly by people who care about the change.
[07:28] <TrueSongMedia> Not really, no
[07:28] <ddecator> i'm not saying all polls are useless, but they cannot be taken as an accurate depiction of the user population
[07:28] <vish> !titlebuttons
[07:29] <vish> :s
[07:29] <alex_mayorga> TrueSongMedia: brainstorm was created to give newbies something to be entertained and don't pollute launchpad directly :D
[07:29] <TrueSongMedia> That's lame
[07:29] <czr_> alex_mayorga, but seriously, I suggest you try doing fully automated installs of debian/ubuntu over the network and that might give you another perspective on "questions". not that options aren't good and all, but still.
[07:29] <underdev> kklimonda: really, this isn't an issue of statistics- if there is any significant outcry, its a trivial thing to include a "classic view" Under system->preferences
[07:30] <alex_mayorga> TrueSongMedia: I was obviously kidding, you got it that from the smiley right?
[07:30] <TrueSongMedia> Agreed, underdev
[07:30] <TrueSongMedia> lol, alex_mayorga. I'm half-awake
[07:30] <TrueSongMedia> ^_^
[07:30] <kklimonda> underdev: people who really care are going to find a command to type and revert this change.
[07:30] <TrueSongMedia> People who really care should have to find a command
[07:30] <TrueSongMedia> *shouldn't
[07:31] <ddecator> but offering too many options creates confusing menus
[07:31] <alex_mayorga> czr_: I understand, yet trying to warn people if the install is interactive can be only consider being forgiving to users
[07:31] <underdev> kklimonda: my mom has converted to ubuntu- you really think she is going to config at the command line?
[07:31] <underdev> Really?
[07:31] <TrueSongMedia> Confusing? No. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/40647960/window_controls_position_gui.png
[07:31] <kklimonda> underdev: you are going to do that for her most likely
[07:31] <alex_mayorga> last time I check being forgiving to users was a key part of good UI design or something
[07:31] <TrueSongMedia> And if she doesn't have someone to do that for her, kklimonda
[07:31] <underdev> that's the f'n point of Ubuntu- it's not just another crappy distro- right?
[07:32] <TrueSongMedia> Looks like it's becoming that, underdev :(
[07:32] <alex_mayorga> underdev: yup it should "just work" or something...
[07:32] <underdev> TrueSongMedia: yeah, and its killing my soul
[07:32] <ddecator> the ui is designed to be simple and easy to use for users. just because it isn't familiar doesn't mean it isn't functional and easy to use
[07:32] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: then she's either going to change the theme or just get used to the new controls - that's not really that hard - various people switch from windows to mac and live though it
[07:33] <TrueSongMedia> Keep in mind that none of the users who have been using Ubuntu from the beginning will be familiar with 10.04's WM
[07:33] <TrueSongMedia> pretty sad
[07:33] <ddecator> i've seen a lot of people on identi.ca say that they prefer the buttons on the left after they get used to it
[07:33] <TrueSongMedia> kklimonda, have you not yet figured out that this is not a theme issue?
[07:33] <ddecator> so ubuntu should look the same forever?
[07:33] <czr_> TrueSongMedia, what about all the slackware 2.0 users? to them the WM is really different too!
[07:33] <underdev> kklimonda: yeah, f' em.  love it or leave it.
[07:34] <TrueSongMedia> Any theme used has the new WM button placement
[07:34] <rsk> oh wow
[07:34] <rsk> cranky about looking the other way
[07:34] <rsk> literally
[07:34] <TrueSongMedia> Just because one distro makes a foolish move doesn't mean the others must as well, czr_
[07:34] <czr_> TrueSongMedia, that wasn't my point at all.
[07:34] <rsk> do you have a defect on your left eye?
[07:34] <underdev> TrueSongMedia: seriously
[07:34] <TrueSongMedia> I know. I'm just saying
[07:34] <czr_> point was rather that linux has always changed.
[07:35] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: people have managed to switch from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X and most Mac OS users aren't tech savvy
[07:35] <czr_> no matter what distro.
[07:35] <TrueSongMedia> To be fair, kklimonda, OS 9 and OS X aren't in the same league
[07:35] <TrueSongMedia> completely different base
[07:35] <TrueSongMedia> different purposes
[07:35] <kklimonda> but same users
[07:36] <TrueSongMedia> To a large extent, but keep in mind that in the gap between 9 and X, many users went to Windows - which was, at the time, more advanced.
[07:36] <vish> !currentissues
[07:37] <TrueSongMedia> And people switch from Win to Mac (or Mac to Win) because the new OS has something of value to offer the user that eclipses the fact that the buttons are in a different place.
[07:37] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: that's true - and they still had to learn the new interface. People can adapt and developers should be free to make changes to the interface if they believe they are right. What they shouldn't do is revert back after one release.
[07:39] <TrueSongMedia> You know, kklimonda if the developers want to leave the buttons there, fine. But users do need a non-CLI option. It wouldn't be difficult. It could be put in the Appearance menu very easily.
[07:39] <TrueSongMedia> The problem here is their refusal to do something so basic to help a few users.
[07:39] <czr_> I hear volunteering for translations
[07:39] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: but the appearance menu is already cluttered and we try to remove options from it.
[07:39] <underdev> TrueSongMedia: seriously.
[07:39] <underdev> kklimonda: omg, are you from cononical?!!?!
[07:40] <TrueSongMedia> Remove options from your OWN appearance menu. Leave ours alone
[07:40] <kklimonda> not really, I just prefer the development model that is used by Canonical
[07:40] <underdev> kklimonda: please please please, if you are, please please please listen to us
[07:40] <czr_> dupondje, sorry, still not tested. the laptop doesn't want to associate with a faster WPA network at all, so I'll have to use another one, gah..
[07:40] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: actually the interface tab has already been removed by GNOME developers.
[07:40] <alex_mayorga> how about a little buttons left/right radio button under the theme tab?
[07:41] <TrueSongMedia> Interface tab? Huh?
[07:41] <ddecator> if i remember right, the majority of developers are not canonical employees...
[07:41] <underdev> geez, this isn't gnome on kde!  THIS IS UBUNTU!!!
[07:41] <TrueSongMedia> If you look at GNOME's packages, it has the buttons on the right by default
[07:41] <underdev> this isn't linux, or debian, IT IS UBUNTU!!!!
[07:41] <dupondje> czr_: plugin a usb stick :P
[07:42] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: that's a bug of course. Also please note that the button order is supposed to be changed only for two themes made by Canonical
[07:42] <czr_> dupondje, arr, but that's the wrong solution! but yes. I could. nevermind, I'll have a smoke meanwhile.
[07:42] <czr_> dupondje, the funny thing is my N900 doesn't want to associate with that network either.
[07:42] <czr_> all other devices work (and linuxen too)
[07:42] <TrueSongMedia> Then why have they changed the location and order in the METACITY ENGINE, kklimonda
[07:42] <TrueSongMedia> That doesn't affect only those themes
[07:43] <vish> !currentissues
[07:43] <TrueSongMedia> It affects every theme that uses Metacity
[07:43] <vish> \o/
[07:43] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: because that was the only way of doing that at the time.
[07:43] <alex_mayorga> oh! BTW just checking that themes tab "ambiance" has the buttons on the LEFT on the preview, is that a bug?
[07:43] <ddecator> vish: nice try...
[07:43] <TrueSongMedia> Seems like a foolish workaround
[07:43] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: it's supposed to be fixed before 10.04 release.
[07:43] <TrueSongMedia> imho
[07:43] <TrueSongMedia> I hope so
[07:45] <TrueSongMedia> This guy has a good point
[07:45] <TrueSongMedia> http://captures.truesongmedia.com/66e3a3e0c8f7cfad0ce35601805a0d26.png
[07:45] <vish> TrueSongMedia: dont quote yourself!
[07:45] <TrueSongMedia> vish, it's a screenshot
[07:45] <TrueSongMedia> look at the PNG at the end of the URL
[07:45] <TrueSongMedia> lmbo
[07:45] <DanaG> kklimonda: is that official, that they'll revert it?
[07:45] <TrueSongMedia> it's just hosted on my server :P
[07:46] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: the argument "people are used to old way" is the worst argument ever
[07:46] <vish> DanaG: nothing is official, mostly they wont change :/
[07:46] <TrueSongMedia> Not really, kklimonda
[07:46] <TrueSongMedia> http://captures.truesongmedia.com/08834ff3a3650d251e386eae56fc02aa.png
[07:46] <TrueSongMedia> ^ also a good comment
[07:48] <kklimonda> DanaG: I'm not really sure - there has been a comment made by Shuttleworth at some point but changing it now is going to make many people miserable. People are already working on promotional stuff and screenshots for documentation...
[07:48] <DanaG> hmm, then would you say we should rearrange the number keys on a keyboard?
[07:48] <TrueSongMedia> Sucks for them. ^_^
[07:48] <underdev> kklimonda: seriously.  that people prefer a UI that makes sense to them and is familiar to them is "the worst argument ever"??!?!
[07:48] <kklimonda> TrueSongMedia: I agree that they could give a better reason than the one they gave.
[07:48] <vish> kklimonda: DanaG: read the 6th from last comment on > http://yokozar.org/blog/archives/194   , sabdfl is quoted there
[07:49] <AbortD> can anyone help me with installing compiz?
[07:49] <TrueSongMedia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/533566/comments/15
[07:50] <kklimonda> vish: thanks
[07:50] <underdev> i just went out to smoke with my wife.  i have demonstrated to her that WoW runs much better on my crappy computer than the family computer, which she has insisted be a windows box.  thats what she knows.  She will never, ever, adopt some radical ui change: "i just can't be bothered".
[07:50] <kklimonda> AbortD: what problem do you have?
[07:51] <DanaG> I'd love to go forcibly rearrange Mark Shuttleworth's mouse buttons.
[07:51] <underdev> LOLOLOLOLOLOL
[07:51] <DanaG> No longer will it be left, middle, right... it'll be middle, right, left.
[07:51] <DanaG> Same idea.
[07:52] <underdev> DanaG: programmers dvorak for the keyboard layout
[07:52] <ddecator> but that's talking about a hardware change as opposed to a graphical software change
[07:52] <TrueSongMedia> Haha DanaG
[07:52] <TrueSongMedia> Let's do it
[07:52] <vish> ddecator: potato/potato ;p
[07:52] <DanaG> ah, good blog post.
[07:53] <underdev> DanaG: don't worry, you can reconfigure it with just a few changes in your /etc directory.
[07:53] <TrueSongMedia> It's a significant usability change, ddecator. That's the point.
[07:53] <vish> anyways we are all being opp topic here.. this is a support channel
[07:53] <vish> !ot
[07:53] <kklimonda> vish: it's not really that offtopic - it is also a discussion channel
[07:53] <underdev> lol- just stfu?  niiiiiice
[07:54] <TrueSongMedia> We're discussing Ubuntu's development and the consequential support of users vish
[07:54] <TrueSongMedia> so perfectly on topic
[07:54] <vish> TrueSongMedia:  kklimonda: i include myself :)  but we keep discussing this with some person or the other every hour ;)
[07:55] <ddecator> vish: TrueSongMedia: i'm just saying that rearranging how the number keys on a keyboard or the buttons on a mouse work is different from a ui change. the hardware has it's purpose physically set while the software is adjustable and has not physical characteristics that imply the use
[07:55] <TrueSongMedia> Gee, that should tell you something vish ^_^
[07:55] <vish> TrueSongMedia: i /dont/ support the change :)
[07:55] <DanaG> position of things on screen is a physical characteristic.
[07:55] <TrueSongMedia> You're reading into that too much, ddecator. It's just an analogy
[07:55] <TrueSongMedia> lol
[07:56] <ddecator> DanaG: but then the characteristic is changing as well. if you reordered the numbers on a keyboard, but also changed the keys so they match, that'd be more equal =)
[07:56] <DanaG> Yeah, that's what I meant.
[07:56] <DanaG> swap keys both in software and in hardware.
[07:56] <DanaG> Mouse buttons example was better, though.
[07:57] <ddecator> then yes, that makes sense
[07:57] <underdev> ddecator: but you demonstrate that a radical ui shift would be unreasonable in the hardware layer.  so why would it be cool in the software
[07:57] <ddecator> underdev: i'm not saying it was a good choice, i just support that the developers should be able to do what they want with their software that they take the time to write
[07:57] <vish> ddecator: if there is no /absolute/ problem with what was earlier , and there is no /absolute/ benefit with the new position.. there is no need for change.  why change just a NIH syndrome?
[07:58] <DanaG> my parents' computers have keyboards with h key on the right size....
[07:58] <czr_> actually I have a counter-point to this. my laptop manuf decided to switch the functions of the F-keys. so that in order to get F1-F12, I have to now press Fn+F key, otherwise it does something else (control contrast, audio volume, etc).
[07:58] <underdev> i have remapped my hardware (((((((( <-- thats my capslock key, i'm a lisp programmer
[07:58] <DanaG> I ave a really ard time typing every time I ave to use that keyboard.
[07:58] <DanaG> (missing the letter on purpose this time.)
[07:58] <underdev> should my moms keyboard be configured out of the box to do the same?
[07:58] <czr_> dupondje, heh. kernel panic. no root. will investigate
[07:58] <DanaG> czr_: check bios settings.
[07:58] <czr_> DanaG, no.
[07:59] <czr_> ah, you meant for the F-keys?
[07:59] <czr_> hmm. will do.
[07:59] <DanaG> yeah.
[07:59] <ddecator> vish: i'm not saying that the change was necessary or a good idea. i have my buttons on the right. i just don't like the argument that the developers need to do what the users want them to do
[07:59] <DanaG> they need to not muck around with stuff that worked without good reason.
[07:59] <wgrant> ddecator: One point: it was nothing to do with the developers.
[07:59] <DanaG> Same thing was true of notify-osd...
[07:59] <wgrant> It was the Canonical design team.
[07:59] <vish> ddecator: i dont think anyone is arguing that..
[07:59] <DanaG> it sucked horribly at first; now it's reached "tolerable".
[07:59] <underdev> ddecator: and that's why linux is 1% of the desktop.  i threw up in my mouth a little.  cya
[08:00] <vish> ddecator: it is as wgrant mentions on the design team , 'new idea" ;)
[08:00] <TrueSongMedia> Then it's the Canonical design team that needs to be tarred and feathered so to speak
[08:00] <ddecator> wgrant: vish: that's just how i see the "ubuntu doesn't care about the users anymore" arguments
[08:00] <vish> s/on/only*
[08:00] <czr_> DanaG, you're a star, bios had "Fn key switch" setting
[08:01] <DanaG> Whenever I get a new PC of any sort, I check what settings exist.
[08:01] <wgrant> DanaG: Tolerable, perhaps, except that the notifications do not stack, and it always leaves an empty slot for the volume/brightness indicator.
[08:01] <TrueSongMedia> Well it stands to reason that if a developer stops taking input from his users regarding critical functions, that he no longer cares about the users.
[08:01] <TrueSongMedia> Just sayin'
[08:01] <DanaG> And often they rape the CPU when doing the "omg you pressed the volume-up key when I was at max volume" flicker.
[08:02] <DanaG> ... and since the volume change waits for notify-OSD (stupid design... imagine if your brakes waited for your brake lights!)... so you get stuck at max volume for a while while it spazzes.
[08:03] <czr_> dupondje, can't break into grub to select the old kernel. any ideas?
[08:03] <TrueSongMedia> Haha, that is a good point DanaG
[08:03] <TrueSongMedia> the OSD should be indicative of the change
[08:03] <TrueSongMedia> not the other way around
[08:04] <DanaG> So, while it spazzes... you're stuck blasting whatever was playing, while it lags on waiting for it to go down.
[08:04] <DanaG> also a bug that makes me angry: http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705
[08:05]  * vish wonders is DanaG is ever not angry ;p
[08:05] <vish> s/is/if
[08:05] <czr_> dupondje, I'll have to defer the testing until evening, need to work now. will get back to you if I have a moment during the evening and manage to rescue the system.
[08:05] <DanaG> yeah, when people aren't going around deliberately breaking stuff.
[08:05] <rww> so never ;P?
[08:05] <TrueSongMedia> lol
[08:05]  * TrueSongMedia must agree with DanaG 
[08:06] <DanaG> czr: check the bios... it may also have stuff like fan-always-on-when-on-ac (my HP does).
[08:06] <DanaG> just curious: what system?
[08:06] <czr_> DanaG, hp mini 5102
[08:06] <DanaG> Ooh, what res screen?
[08:06] <DanaG> I really want one of those.
[08:06] <DanaG> Wish I could get one with that case... but with the Athlon Neo.
[08:06] <czr_> hmm. I just packed it away (since it borks on kernel not finding root).
[08:07] <DanaG> czr_: also interesting: that laptop is 32-bit UEFI.
[08:07] <czr_> yes, noticed a setting to enable that in the bios
[08:07] <czr_> never used UEFI. used EFI though. some years back
[08:08] <DanaG> my EliteBook (8530w) has 64-bit uefi... but their memory map is broken.  it tries to put the framebuffer at 0x0.
[08:08] <DanaG> And my PCI bridge winows are screwed up if I don't boot with CSM.
[08:08] <czr_> broken bios? how "suprising" :-)
[08:08] <czr_> hah.
[08:08] <DanaG> Works fine with BIOS-based boot mode.
[08:09] <DanaG> And supposedly the new ones do have working UEFI.
[08:09] <TrueSongMedia> lol I love this
[08:09] <TrueSongMedia> http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/offsite/lucid-window-controls.png
[08:09] <czr_> DanaG, you might want to check #543314 if you decide to get 5102.
[08:09] <DanaG> I had some fun loading the Apple firewire drivers and booting my laptop from Firewire.
[08:09] <DanaG> Couldn't suspend/resume with it, though.
[08:09] <DanaG> what bugtracker?
[08:10] <czr_> lp
[08:10] <DanaG> bug 543314
[08:10] <czr_> DanaG, it's not a biggie, but still, FYI
[08:10] <DanaG> Wish I could get a hybrid of that and this: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/10/onkyos-dx-dual-screen-laptop-is-a-far-better-deal-than-kohjinsh/
[08:11] <czr_> heh, that's sick :-).
[08:11] <DanaG> Yeah, badass.
[08:12] <DanaG> Too bad they didn't make it tablet-able.
[08:12] <DanaG> I also wish the HP one could do touch and 1366x768 at the same time.
[08:12] <czr_> I think there's a touch option for the 5102 though
[08:12] <czr_> I wanted mine cheap, so it doesn't have any extras
[08:12] <DanaG> Yeah, but only with 1024x600.
[08:12] <czr_> yeah, it sucks kind of.
[08:12] <DanaG> er, gotta' go to bed soon.
[08:13] <DanaG> Mon Mar 22 01:13:15 PDT 2010
[08:13] <DanaG> =þ
[08:13] <czr_> although it's still better than 701.
[08:13] <TrueSongMedia> kklimonda, you might find this interesting http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/poll-do-you-want-ubuntu-window-controls.html
[08:13] <DanaG> netbook my parents got me: samsung n130.  google it and "archwiki".
[08:14] <TrueSongMedia> http://polldaddy.com/community/poll/2797956/?view=results
[08:16] <czr_> DanaG, why archwiki?
[08:23] <DanaG> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Samsung_N140
[08:23] <DanaG> it's a useful resource.
[08:23] <DanaG> anyway, off to bed I go.  running finch in screen on my elitebook running torrents.
[08:32] <BUGabundo_remote> morning
[08:34] <MindVirus> Hello.
[08:34] <MindVirus> I upgraded successfully, with one final minor problem remaining.
[08:35] <MindVirus> I used to use UNR; now, when I start Firefox, it's as if maximus was still running. I can't see the window bar.
[08:35] <MindVirus> Wait -- this still happens with nautilus too. I will try to solve it myself then.
[08:36] <Ian_Corne> http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/bgfas/this_was_surprisingly_very_well_produced_for/
[08:36] <MindVirus> OK. Is there any way to kill maximus?
[08:36] <Ian_Corne> oops sorry
[08:37] <Elite1> hey guys ubuntu 10.4 beta 1 found my ati card right out of the box
[08:38] <Elite1> i have full 1600x900
[08:38] <Elite1> but now my wireless card is not working any ideas ?
[08:41] <Elite1> i am trying to understand what this website is saying to do: http://madwifi.org/
[08:46] <MindVirus> Can someone help me kill maximus?
[08:50] <MindVirus> Any advice?
[08:50] <Elite1> can i paste a few lines of text here from term ?
[08:51] <MindVirus> Elite1: No. Pastebin.
[08:51] <Elite1> ok
[08:52] <Elite1> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/399176/
[08:52] <Elite1> how can i find out what wireless card i have ?
[08:54] <TrueSongMedia> Ian_Corne, that's disgusting...
[08:54] <MindVirus> TrueSongMedia: I personally think it's hilarious.
[08:55] <TrueSongMedia> Yeeeah...no
[08:55] <MindVirus> TrueSongMedia: Yeah... yeah.
[08:55] <TrueSongMedia> lol
[08:56] <MindVirus> TrueSongMedia: I cannot dispute what is disgusting to you, but what I can say is just because it's pornographic doesn't mean you should automatically dismiss it.
[08:56] <MindVirus> (Unless you're at work or religious.)
[08:57] <TrueSongMedia> Yeah... to me it does
[08:57] <MindVirus> TrueSongMedia: There's a lot of beautiful art that is pornographic in nature.
[08:57] <Ian_Corne> It does have a tag: "NSFW"
[08:57] <MindVirus> TrueSongMedia: May I ask why?
[08:57] <Ian_Corne> You should read the comments, some funny links in there :)
[08:58] <MindVirus> TrueSongMedia: To me the only thing more beautiful than procreation is math; any sort of satire to me is automatically funny.
[08:58] <MindVirus> Sex isn't taboo anymore.
[08:59] <MindVirus> I believe it should be embraced. We should stop hiding from ourselves.
[08:59] <MindVirus> /rant
[08:59] <Ian_Corne> ah damn, this channel is logged..
[09:01] <MindVirus> TrueSongMedia: Are you there? Does this conversation make you uncomfortable? I'll stop if it does.
[09:01] <rww> MindVirus: This conversation is offtopic for Ubuntu's channels. I'd appreciate it if you could stop :)
[09:01] <MindVirus> rww: Yes, sir.
[09:01] <rww> ty :)
[09:02] <MindVirus> Or ma'am. I don't know.
[09:02] <MindVirus> Anyone know how I can kill maximus?
[09:02] <MindVirus> It keeps getting restarted.
[09:02] <TrueSongMedia> No, I'm still here. What I find offensive about such things is that it 1) degrades women and sexuality. and 2) makes sexuality a laughing matter when it should be something special shared within marriage.
[09:02] <TrueSongMedia> And no, I don't know MindVirus
[09:02] <TrueSongMedia> I had that issue when I tried the UNR on 9.04
[09:03] <MindVirus> TrueSongMedia: Would you like to continue in PM?
[09:03] <TrueSongMedia> wound up having to reinstall because I didn't want to mess with it
[09:03] <TrueSongMedia> sure :)
[09:03] <Elite1> can someone have a look at this and offer some kind of help please: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/399178/
[09:05] <LinuxGuy2009>  Is there any way to export the radiance and ambience themes from Lucid thats installed on my netbook to put onto 9.04 installation on my desktop or is there a tar.gz of theme somewhere I can download?
[09:06] <nperry> LinuxGuy2009: There is a ppa of them, let me find them :)
[09:06] <LinuxGuy2009> nperry: Great
[09:06] <nperry> LinuxGuy2009: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/03/ubuntu-lucid-light-themes-radiance-and.html
[09:07] <LinuxGuy2009> nperry: Thank you so much for taking the time!
[09:07] <nperry> LinuxGuy2009: Just follow the two commands for jaunty
[09:14] <bjwebb> hmmmm, lucid doesn't seem to want to mount stuff for me
[09:30] <DJones> !topic
[09:42] <stooj> Anyone installed lucid ubuntu beta1, then installed kubuntu-desktop?
[09:43] <xsacha> hey guys. apparently there's a mystical fglrx driver, 8.721. i did an update on main ubuntu server, it's on 8.660. i searched the fglrx driver on launchpad, it's on 8.660. any ideas?
[09:45] <Elite1> xsacha try here: http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Z4ZQTmHVResJ:bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php%3Fpid%3D728769+fglrx-installer+%282:8.721-0ubuntu1%29&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
[09:46] <rww> xsacha: fglrx-installer (2:8.721-0ubuntu4) is the version on launchpad. it came out 22 hours ago, probably didn't hit your mirror yet.
[09:46] <rww> ( https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer )
[09:47] <rww> oh, wait, I see
[09:47] <xsacha> yeah :(
[09:47] <rww> xsacha: it didn't get pushed out to the repositories yet for some reason, likely something to do with the beta freeze
[09:47] <xsacha> that sucks...
[09:48] <Elite1> rww i myself want to try and install that on ubuntu 9.10 32-bit think it will work ?
[09:48] <xsacha> my system is sort of unusable without it. cant use any other fglrx due to Xorg incompatibility. opensource driver has no power management, so my laptop burns thru battery in an hour with massive heat and fan noise. this new fglrx is my only option
[09:49] <rww> xsacha: shouldn't be too long before it comes out.
[09:49] <Elite1> i was able to d/l this file fglrx-installer_8.721.orig.tar.gz
[09:49] <rww> xsacha: you could try getting the .deb files from launchpad I guess, but I'd recommend just waiting
[09:50] <stooj> Can anyone point me in the right direction for fixing gdm? I installed kubuntu-desktop and it broke gdm :(
[09:50] <xsacha> oh i see. when i search launchpad it comes up with 660, but if i type in 721 manually, i can get the debs to appear :D
[09:50] <rww> Elite1: yeah, that's not the file you want. If you're intent on fownloading it manually, you'd want the .deb files at the bottom of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/2:8.721-0ubuntu4/+build/1571791
[09:51] <rww> or some of them. I'm not knowledgable enough about fglrx to know which are necessary for desktop users.
[09:51] <Elite1> oh ok thanks rww
[09:52] <Elite1> what about this code: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/399195/
[09:52] <xsacha> yeah i actually want the one before that, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/2:8.721-0ubuntu4/+build/1571790   (amd64)
[09:52] <rww> Elite1: that looks like an Arch package file, not an Ubuntu one.
[09:52] <Elite1> oh ok thanks rww
[09:53] <rww> though they're apparently using our orig tarball, I guess ATI didn't make it available elsewhere yet or something
[09:53] <Elite1> it seems so
[09:53] <Elite1> others have said that code works for them
[09:53] <xsacha> yeah it's an early alpha of the 10.04 catalyst drivers (that is april).. the actual release isnt due for over a month
[09:54] <xsacha> cause the 10.03 drivers (that arent even out yet) dont support this Xorg either
[09:54] <rww> Elite1: other people... on the Arch forums you linked to? I imagine an Arch package file would work for them, yes :)
[09:54] <Elite1> yes
[09:54] <xsacha> ubuntu always seems to get these packages early
[09:56] <rww> xsacha: I imagine some ATI users wouldn't be too happy if we didn't get them and ended up shipping without them. I guess ATI thinks there are enough Ubuntu fglrx users to work with us 'specially.
[09:57] <xsacha> fglrx depends on libqtcore4? they use Qt? cool
[09:57] <Elite1> i was very happy to see that my ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470 works right out of the box with ubuntu 10.04 beta 1
[09:58] <rww> xsacha: I think the catalyst control center does, yeah
[09:58] <Elite1> but i was hoping to use this alpha driver on ubuntu 9.10 32-bit
[09:59] <rww> oh, I totally missed the "9.10" part of your message =\
[09:59] <xsacha> Elite1: someone on forum with your card said they got crazy increase in performance with this alpha driver
[09:59] <xsacha> "Just tested Direct2D.It works great.Unbelievable actually,resizing sometimes stutters but that's when you have 15+tbas with youtube videos,...transformers in 1080p and HON(heroes of...)in background.And it didn't crash. Right now i'm the happiest guy in the world."
[10:00] <Elite1> i just want to have my full 1600x900 screen
[10:00] <xsacha> lol
[10:01] <Elite1> so what do i have to do to install this new ati driver on 9.10 32-bit just run the .debs >?
[10:01] <Elite1> i d/l'ed all of them
[10:02] <rww> Elite1: I have no idea. They're built for 10.04, which uses a different version of Xorg and the kernel, so that likely wouldn't work.
[10:02] <xsacha> Elite1: download all 4 debs, then sudo dpkg -i fglrx*
[10:02] <xsacha> you might have dependency issues, resolve those, install again.
[10:03] <Elite1> ok thank you xsacha :)
[10:03] <xsacha> when it's installed run: aticonfig --initial
[10:04] <Elite1> ok last time i try that it said no driver found
[10:05] <xsacha> rww: hey have you noticed when installing some things from disc, it prompts you to insert disc (even though it's already in)? the solution is you have to unmount each time
[10:05] <xsacha> Elite1: i dunno, the packages mustnt have been installed. make sure you dont have any errors from the sudo dpkg -i fglrx*
[10:06] <xsacha> Elite1: should see lines like this: Setting up fglrx (2:8.721-0ubuntu4) ...
[10:07] <Elite1> no i did not mean with this one i try to use the ATI Catalyst™ 10.2 Proprietary Linux x86 Display Driver
[10:07] <xsacha> oh you arent using lucid lynx?
[10:07] <Elite1> i just installed lucid lynx
[10:07] <xsacha> oh ok
[10:07] <Elite1> to test it
[10:08] <Elite1> and my ati card works perfectly
[10:08] <xsacha> should be fine :) i just did what i said above
[10:08] <Elite1> i didn't have tp do anything
[10:08] <xsacha> yeah ati card should work out of the box because it uses opensource driver. it's quite slow and has no power management for our cards though
[10:08] <Elite1> it found my ati card right out of the box
[10:08] <xsacha> you'll want the catalyst driver to play games
[10:09] <Elite1> yes
[10:09] <xsacha> the catalyst driver also has this new feature Direct2D that speeds up 2D operations like resizing and moving windows
[10:09] <Elite1> but i need to see if i can get this to work on ubuntu 9.10 32-bit
[10:09] <red> anyone know if lucid + samba is fixed yet?
[10:10] <Elite1> if not i have to return this laptop for a refund
[10:12] <xsacha> why cant u use it on 10.04?
[10:12] <Elite1> well i can i guess
[10:12] <Elite1> but i was not able to set up lvm
[10:12] <Elite1> it failed
[10:12] <Elite1> when i was installing
[10:13] <xsacha> cant in 10.04 but can in 9.10?
[10:13] <Elite1> yes lvm works perfectly in 9.10
[10:14] <Elite1> i really like to have encryption in use
[10:15] <Elite1> i use the alt. install of the cd so i can set up guided lvm encryption
[10:15] <xsacha> im sure it'll be fixed soon anyway
[10:15] <xsacha> probably some workaround if u check forum. like workaround i just did to get catalyst drivers
[10:16] <Elite1> it said something about was not able to create partition
[10:16] <Elite1> like the /dev/sda was locked or something
[10:17] <xsacha> strange
[10:17] <Elite1> sure is
[10:17] <Elite1> maybe i will try again
[10:17] <Elite1> now that Windows 7 is gone
[10:18] <xsacha> dont know about that stuff sorry. i mean that shouldnt happen if ur doing text based install and didnt drop in to console to do anything out of the ordinary. id just take it as a bug. maybe try the new beta 1
[10:18] <Elite1> i am using beta 1
[10:19] <xsacha> oh :(
[10:19] <Elite1> but its ok
[10:19] <Elite1> i am sure April 29th will be a very good day
[10:21] <xsacha> :) catalyst 10.04 wil be out officially by then
[10:21] <xsacha> brb restart X
[10:21] <Elite1> ok
[10:21] <MindVirus> Can someone help me kill nautilus?
[10:23] <MindVirus> I mean maximus. Sorry.
[10:25] <Elite1> MindVirus This daemon is part of the session, in lucid, you can switch back to gnome session to not have it. As every session daemon, you can activate/deactivate them in System -> Preferences -> Startup apps which is the right and only way to stop session deamon.
[10:25] <MindVirus> Elite1: It is not in that list.
[10:26] <Elite1> you can read more here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maximus/+bug/396485
[10:26] <MindVirus> I have already read that bug.
[10:26] <Elite1> oh ok
[10:27] <Elite1> well i have to get ready for school cya guys later thanks everyone and good luck
[10:28] <MindVirus> Sweet-o.
[10:42] <MindVirus> Can anyone help me kill maximus?
[10:43] <Sensiva> I have installed beta1 in vbox and X doesn't start anymore
[10:46] <gnomefreak> MindVirus: did you try ps aux |grep maximus than kill -9 pin(whatever the pin # is
[10:46] <MindVirus> gnomefreak: Yes.
[10:46] <gnomefreak> MindVirus: than wait for the fix. maybe restart?
[10:46] <MindVirus> gnomefreak: Eh?
[10:47] <gnomefreak> restarting the system it should not load at start up IIRC
[10:49] <gnomefreak> from what bug says disable maximus from starting up at login using the startup manager
[10:50] <MindVirus> gnomefreak: And it doesn't exist in the startup manager.
[10:50] <MindVirus> gnomefreak: Furthermore, logging out and back in would do.
[10:50] <gnomefreak> ok give me a minute im reading bug atm
[10:51] <gnomefreak> MindVirus: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maximus/+bug/396485/comments/6
[10:52] <gnomefreak> that is last comment posted 6 minutes ago
[10:52] <gnomefreak> crap forgot to remove "edge."
[10:52] <gnomefreak> remove that part of link if you are not using LP edge
[10:52] <gnomefreak> i suggest the gconf-editor
[10:54] <MindVirus> gnomefreak: I just responded. I already did that.
[10:54] <gnomefreak> MindVirus: and restarted after that?
[10:55]  * gnomefreak never used it or installed it
[10:55] <MindVirus> Yes.
[10:56] <MindVirus> That option actually should take effect instantly.
[10:56] <gnomefreak> MindVirus: remove it until bug is fixed?
[10:56] <MindVirus> maximus?
[10:57] <gnomefreak> MindVirus: yes there maybe other packages to remove as well maybe like if there is a maximus-server or something like that
[10:57] <MindVirus> gnomefreak: ubuntu-netbook.
[10:57] <MindVirus> Which I hope I don't have to remove.
[10:59] <gnomefreak> MindVirus: it doesnt show it in depends but that doesnt always mean it wont remove something. you can try to remove it and it will give you the rest of the packages you need to remove than you decide if you still want to remove it
[10:59] <gnomefreak> brb smoke
[11:00] <MindVirus> gnomefreak: I can either remove maximus, which will remove ubuntu-netbook, or not, which will retain both.
[11:03] <MindVirus> gnomefreak: I can either remove maximus, which will remove ubuntu-netbook, or not, which will retain both.
[11:08] <gnomefreak> anyone know how ipod support is (using rythembox or what not)
[11:21] <red> ey
[11:21] <red> whats the system tray app panel app called?
[11:21] <red> with minimized to tray icons list
[11:23] <gnomefreak> red: im not sure this bug is what you are seeing but here you go bug 396485
[11:23] <gnomefreak> oops
[11:23] <gnomefreak> sorry one minute
[11:25] <gnomefreak> red: bug 396485  maybe this is your bug?
[11:27] <gnomefreak> damnit
[11:27] <gnomefreak> ok here you go red bug 542343
[11:35] <Dr_Willis> Hmm. removeing the light-themes  does not remove the Ambiance gnome-terminal profile.. Wonder if that counts as a bug.
[11:40] <zniavre> it's  ubuntu-artwork no ?
[11:42] <martron> hi, just installed lucid for fun, on second hard drive, new to ubuntu, how to see my windows hard drive?
[11:46] <red> gnomefreak: nah, ty for trying to help thought
[11:46] <red> the panel starts but is partly empty
[11:46] <gnomefreak> np
[11:46] <red> until I switch it to bottom and back up x)
[11:46] <red> weird
[11:50] <Pici> darn
[11:51] <Svedrin> I just updated to lucid and now keep getting this error message for munin-node and nfs-{common,kernel-server}: Unable to connect to Upstart: Failed to connect to socket /com/ubuntu/upstart: Connection refused
[11:51] <Svedrin> I only find websites talkiing about chroots, but I'm in a VM instead...
[11:52] <Svedrin> what should I do to fix this? :/
[11:52] <Bittarman> VM's can still have chroots
[11:52] <Bittarman> so the solution there probably still applies
[11:53] <Svedrin> they suggest replacing /sbin/initctl with /bin/true
[11:53] <Svedrin> but I'm not sure that's a good idea - I do want services to start :)
[11:53] <Svedrin> and I'm not inside a chroot, it's the plain guest system
[11:54] <Svedrin> or does ssh chroot somehow?
[11:56] <Pirate_Hunter> hi anyone care to suggest a filesystem that is good at handling many files  in one volume, it will get accessed often, small files are created, written and removed. Was looking into reiserfs... but what is the other alternative?
[12:12] <Svedrin> could dbus not running be the cause for this?
[12:18] <HAMBURG> were can i get audio/x-private-ts-lpcm decoder ???
[12:20] <HAMBURG> help
[12:21] <HAMBURG> were can i get audio/x-private-ts-lpcm decoder ???
[12:21] <gnomefreak> HAMBURG: please dont repeat. someone will help you if they know the answer
[12:22] <HAMBURG> ok sorry
[12:25] <OerHeks> HAMBURG, you still can't find restricted extra's when you search for 'restricted' ??
[12:26] <HAMBURG> yes
[12:26] <HAMBURG> i cant
[12:26] <HAMBURG> its not there
[12:26] <OerHeks> odd, it should be there, without extra steps
[12:27] <OerHeks> Kubuntu-restricted and ubuntu-restricted
[12:27] <pmatulis> !info ubuntu-restricted-extras
[12:27] <HAMBURG> ill try apt-get it
[12:28] <Dr_Willis> Has anyone noticed the default 'console' having sort of a purple tinge/color ?  Or are my eyes getting old...
[12:28] <OerHeks> Dr_Willis, your eyes are fine :-D
[12:28] <Pici> Dr_Willis: Thats new default gnome-terminal profile.
[12:29] <Dr_Willis> not gnome-terminal but the Console.
[12:29] <Dr_Willis> Gome terminal default annoys me because it has silly transparancy set
[12:29] <Pici> Oh, It wouldn't suprise me if that was changed as well, but I can't check it here.
[12:29] <Dr_Willis> It looks like the other box is using a framebuffer. and a purpleish tinge..
[12:29] <HAMBURG> couldent get the package even with apt-get
[12:29] <Dr_Willis> I normally disable the FB and stuff
[12:30] <yofel> HAMBURG: do you have the multiverse repos enabled? (it's off by default)
[12:30] <HAMBURG> yes
[12:30] <HAMBURG> my other software tab in synaptic is
[12:30] <HAMBURG> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu
[12:30] <HAMBURG> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu lucid partner
[12:31] <yofel> you don't need the partner repos for that, just multiverse
[12:31] <yofel> HAMBURG: so what goes wrong if you want to install ubuntu-r-e?
[12:32] <HAMBURG> huh
[12:32] <HAMBURG> im trying to get a decoder
[12:32] <HAMBURG> that should (apparently) be in there
[12:33] <Dr_Willis> what decoder?
[12:33] <HAMBURG> sec
[12:33] <HAMBURG> im reloading packages again
[12:33] <HAMBURG> cant tell you while im doing that
[12:33] <HAMBURG> audio/x-private-ts-lpcm decoder
[12:33] <HAMBURG> that one
[12:33] <yofel> Dr_Willis: he said audio/x-private-ts-lpcm before
[12:33] <HAMBURG> ^
[12:36] <HAMBURG> got it working
[12:36] <HAMBURG> thanks for the help guys
[12:38]  * Dr_Willis sends HAMBURG  the bill
[12:42] <glance> grub-probe /target/
[12:42] <glance> grub-probe: error: no mapping exists for `rootvg-rootlv'.
[12:43] <glance> when reading on the bug-pages for grub2, the symtoms has bin seen before, but now it looks like they are back...
[12:47] <Dr_Willis> Hmm. there is a purple tinge to the console - Not sure how they are setting that.
[12:47] <Dr_Willis> yet somthing else to disable. :)
[12:49] <zekoZeko> Dr_Willis: terminal -> change profile -> default :)
[12:49] <zekoZeko> but i kinda like it this way.
[12:50] <pmatulis> Dr_Willis: not sure what you mean.  i have switched to the console and i have normal light grey and black
[12:51] <zekoZeko> pmatulis: gnome terminal has an "Ambiance" profile now, which is transparent and a little bit purple.
[12:52] <pmatulis> zekoZeko: terminal != console
[12:52] <Pici> Dr_Willis is talking about the VTs
[12:52] <zekoZeko> oh
[12:53] <zekoZeko> mine are black....
[12:53] <zekoZeko> sorry for the misunderstanding, just dropped in here after the weekend :)
[12:59] <Dr_Willis> its definatly NOT black on this one pc.. but the grub menu is black. so i know its not the Monitor
[12:59] <Dr_Willis> seems the Vga16fb module is getting loaded. even tho i used the nofb option
[13:12] <Dr_Willis> Anyone noticed that If you Upgrade, the users 'button order' getting changed to the Radiance default. (on the left) even IF the user had allready set to use a diffrent theme?
[13:16] <Pici> Dr_Willis: Yes.
[13:17] <Dr_Willis> Pici:  Thats really going to be an annoyance  for those that have /home seperate and several dozen+ users.
[13:17] <Dr_Willis> I thouhg i saw it happen that way..  just wanted to double check.
[13:44] <syk> hmm my volume icon seems to be gone. how do i get it back? lol
[13:45] <yofel> syk: it's part of the indicator applet now
[13:46] <syk> yofel, i dont understand
[13:46] <yofel> syk: well, do you have the indicator applet in your panel?
[13:46] <syk> yofel, i dont think so?
[13:47] <yofel> syk: well, the audio control applet is now integrated into the indicator applet, so you need to add the indicator applet
[13:47] <syk> yofel, ah ok ty
[13:47] <Dr_Willis> let see... I got a Network Jack, a speaker, a Envelope, the date/time, a Funny Square and my name.. and a power button in my top panel :)
[13:47] <Dr_Willis> Hard to tell which ones are  together.
[13:48] <Dr_Willis> speaker + mail = indicator it seems.
[13:48] <Dr_Willis> i just went to move that to the lower panel.. and it crashed. :) no speaker or mail icon now
[13:49] <Dr_Willis> Thats a little annoying. I really dont want/need the Mail indicator thing.
[13:50] <LinuxGuy2009> I didnt know that until now myself. Battery, bluetooth, volume, and indicator are all together on my netbook. Strange change.
[13:50] <Dr_Willis> I dont see what we are gaining by 'mergeing' what looks like 2 applets into One.
[13:51] <jmcantrell> how do i get rid of that envelope notification icon?
[13:51] <Dr_Willis> jmcantrell:  you dont without getting rid of the spealer/volume also
[13:52] <deanus> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/how-to-remove-social-network-features.html
[13:52] <LinuxGuy2009> jmcantrell: Yeah theres at least 4 icons that I see that are linked now. Kinda goofy.
[13:53] <jmcantrell> it's so pointless.
[13:53] <jmcantrell> deanus: thanks for that link
[13:54] <LinuxGuy2009> At least they didnt mess with something important like eyeballs in my panel.
[13:55] <jmcantrell> hehe
[13:55] <Dr_Willis> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/how-to-remove-social-network-features.html   gotta bookmark that. I see a Future FAQ answer there
[13:55] <ianmartin> hi, having problems with X/logging in with lucid.  Having logged in at the user prompt it hangs showing the background and the wait timer.  If I kill X and log in again it works fine.  How can I find my problem?
[13:56] <Dr_Willis_> ive noticed similer quirks ianmartin  -  try the alt-ctrl F1 through F9 - On my system for some odd reason i actually had 2 X sessiosn getting started.
[13:57] <jmcantrell> i wish there were a theme similar to the default, but looked ok with the window controls being on the right side and reordered
[13:57] <Dr_Willis_> I found it easier to just sudo apt-get remove light-themes
[13:58] <Dr_Willis_> or whatever its called
[13:58] <jmcantrell> Dr_Willis_: what do you mean?
[13:58] <Dr_Willis_> i remove that silly theme. :)
[13:59] <jmcantrell> heh. what theme do you use?
[13:59] <h00k> I just opened bug 544177 against go-home-applet on Ubuntu Netbook Edition
[13:59] <h00k> I wonder if it'll stick
[14:00] <Dr_Willis_> Ive so many issues on my netbook that has UNR + normal Ubuntu-desktop installed.. its scary
[14:00] <Dr_Willis_> :)
[14:02] <BoondoKlife> hrm something odd is afoot, the bug report for the samba mounting asks to run stacktrace, but I can not find the pstack package in the repos. The packages site says it should be there. Can anyone else see it?
[14:03] <genii> BoondoKlife: I see the 32 bit there but not 64 bit
[14:05] <BoondoKlife> genii: Ok, that makes me feel better. I didnt notice the i386 at the end. wonder why there is not a 64bit.
[14:05] <yofel> hm, pstack is indeed i386 only
[14:05] <yofel>     pstack |      1.2-1 | lucid/universe | source, i386
[14:05] <BoondoKlife> should there not be a 64bit version?
[14:07] <yofel> no idea, maybe a bug report would be nice, but pstack doesn't seem to have changed since dapper :/
[14:07] <h00k> Does this help? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
[14:09] <BoondoKlife> h00k: Thanks
[14:09] <h00k> BoondoKlife: :)
[14:17] <Damascene> could some one test this link with vlc
[14:17] <Damascene>  http://www.khayma.com/tajweed/taha/lameyatebnalqayem.mp3
[14:22] <BluesKaj> howdy
[14:23] <BoondoKlife> I dont use compiz, is it safe to completely remove it from my system?
[14:23] <electro> Is there a workaround for flash / firefox 3.6 yet?
[14:23] <electro> i haven't been able to find one on the net
[14:23] <electro> and its 64bit
[14:23] <yofel> electro: the bug report about that has a workaround
[14:24] <yofel> electro: (if you're talking about bug 410407)
[14:25] <electro> yeah
[14:25] <electro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/529153
[14:27] <yofel> electro: oh, you don't have flash at all?
[14:28] <waltercool> fluendo vs ugly? For mp3 playback?
[14:30] <Pici> YingFan: The schedule in the topic might answer what you're looking for.
[14:30] <YingFan> how is the the release schedule for betas in ubuntu done? The beta exist all from the start and is continously built on until it becames the next standard release or does e.g. the beta1 a specific date to its release?
[14:30] <YingFan> oops, was typing...
[14:31] <Pici> !schedule
[14:31] <YingFan> ok thanks pici, will check milestones
[14:31] <woodyjlw> im running the 10.04 and have had it for 2 weeks now and it is the best by far! every problem I had with wake and suspend is fixed and I have better 3d support and all the other little bugs I had with older ubuntu ver. is fixed so far....only thing I have not gotten to work properly is wicd but I am sure it will be fixed by final release......very very pleased so far
[14:32] <OerHeks> same here, woodyjlw :-)
[14:32] <woodyjlw> running an hp l2000 lance armstrong laptop
[14:32] <YingFan> woodyjlw what about new hardware support? SATA3?
[14:32] <woodyjlw> dont have sata
[14:32] <woodyjlw> so I dont know
[14:34] <woodyjlw> going to build a new desk top soon and want to build it for ubuntu to run on so i will be doing lots of research soon for best video card that is supported by linux
[14:34] <YingFan> nvidia vs ati as usual I guess
[14:35] <woodyjlw> yep
[14:35] <woodyjlw> i hear nvidia is better supported
[14:35] <YingFan> I know nvidia is easier on mac for sure, so assume same goes for linux
[14:36] <tgpraveen12> ati is better in long term even if not using linux. and their open source drivers are going to be good
[14:36] <tgpraveen12> though nvidia has pretty good but proprietary drivers
[14:36] <woodyjlw> if that is case I want to use ati but so far I am not impressed with them on linux
[14:36] <YingFan> probably, but the 'are going to' is usally the deal breaker
[14:37]  * yofel makes a note that noveau is going to get better too...
[14:37]  * charlie-tca thinks it depends on the day of the week as to which is better
[14:38] <woodyjlw> it has been easier for me to install ubuntu and teach the basics of it to people then to constantly clean the viruses from there MS all the time and I have noticed that all the people I have switched have been very happy with it
[14:39] <woodyjlw> so this 10.04 will be very nice to start installing for friends
[14:39] <tgpraveen12> woodyjlw: well for common folks/non power users ubuntu is defienetely better
[14:39] <jmcantrell> the darklooks theme with the default icon theme looks good. :)
[14:40] <woodyjlw> my goal is to switch as many friends and family to it as I can
[14:40] <YingFan> Stable release should be better for introductions
[14:40] <woodyjlw> I do like the software installer a lot better
[14:41] <woodyjlw> easier for new people to use
[14:41] <woodyjlw> and irc is great support to
[14:42] <woodyjlw> I show them irc and google and they are able to fix most problems without calling me all the time too lol. ubuntu has great support
[14:43] <arand> woodyjlw: One problem with irc is that the support in empathy is, rather lacking.
[14:43] <YingFan> any better place than devel-announce to look for a supported hardware list of some sort?
[14:45] <woodyjlw> most hardware info I find with google or forums
[14:45] <woodyjlw> when is the final release for ununtu 10.04 ?
[14:46] <YingFan> 29th apr
[14:46] <KB1JWQ> woodyjlw: See the /topic
[14:46] <arand> woodyjlw: See schedule in topic ;)
[14:46] <woodyjlw> oh ok
[14:56] <sno> afternoon all, 10.04 amd64 can't seem to resize my ext4 or ntfs partitions, am i missing something? worked fine in 9.04, the otion is gray'd out during install or if i manually open gparted
[14:56] <sno> im using the latest beta
[14:56] <rsk> are you opening gparted as root?
[14:56] <sno> rsk yes
[14:57] <sno> gksudo gparted
[14:57] <arand> sno: or are the partition locked?
[14:57] <sno> arand: i don't belive so, i mounted them first to verify which was which, then right click -> umount and opened gparted after
[14:58] <arand> sno: gparted has a lock symbol if they are
[14:58] <sno> i see, ill try again here *boots laptop*
[14:58] <CalmvsKhaos> How can I tell which version of Gnome I have by command line?
[14:58] <arand> sno: or a key symbol, rather
[14:58] <sno> CalmvsKhaos: dpkg -l | grep -i gnome is a good start
[14:59] <CalmvsKhaos> sno, ok ty :)
[14:59] <sno> yw
[15:03] <sno> hmm definately no lock type symbol arand , uploading screenie now
[15:05] <alieno> hi everybody. just curious, a new icon appeared on my indicator applet. http://imagebin.ca/view/2luZZSu.html. anybody knows what is it?
[15:05] <ouinecayveune> is that blutooth ?
[15:06] <alieno> ouinecayveune, possibly. but I've got the "regular" bluetooth one showing as well
[15:06] <ZykoticK9> Nvidia 6150 (onboard) video is booting system to a text login (X is not starting) - I've tried without an Xorg.conf and with nvidia-settings Xorg.conf = same result.  Nvidia-xorg, X log at http://pastebin.com/6f4CiBSj -- without an xorg.conf X log at http://pastebin.com/0S5cA6ip
[15:06] <alieno> and is not telling me anything, nor with mouse over neither with clicks
[15:07] <Dr_Willis_> i would guess bluetooth
[15:07] <YingFan> bluetooth with caries
[15:07] <Dr_Willis_> unless you changed a theme and got diffrent icons
[15:07] <alieno> nope, original theme
[15:07] <alieno> it's a bit weird cause is mute
[15:12] <sno> hmm finding it tough to take a screenshot, installed gimp and it doesn't seem to have the option to take a delayed screenshot anymore, pressing screenshot button on keyboard doesn't work when right clicking a menu item, doh!
[15:13] <arand> sno: sleep 5 && gnome-screenshot
[15:13] <tgpraveen12> sno: applications->accessories->take screenshot
[15:13] <ZykoticK9> sno, the regular Gnome screenshot has an adjustable time option
[15:13] <sno> oh great, thanks to all
[15:15] <sno> http://i.imgur.com/zxr8g.png thats the pic , notice how resize is gray'd out
[15:16] <sno> same happens for the ntfs partition(s)
[15:16] <arand> sno: odd, and no change if you swapoff?
[15:18] <alieno> about http://imagebin.ca/view/2luZZSu.html   . do you think is it too much for a bug report? :)
[15:18] <arand> sno: and no further clues if you check out information for the partition
[15:18] <KB1JWQ> alieno: Hold.
[15:18] <KB1JWQ> alieno: I just show an icon?
[15:18] <sno> aha that was it arand , great thanks
[15:18] <sno> turned off swap, resize option is available :)
[15:19] <alieno> KB1JWQ, yeah, is an icon in the indicator applet
[15:19] <alieno> KB1JWQ, but I think is confusing because I've already got a bluetooth icon and most important, the new icon is not interactive in any way
[15:20] <KB1JWQ> Oh, I don't want to file a bug report until I'm sure it actually is a bug, but I can't seem to remove the Universal Access Preferences indicator from the top bar.
[15:20] <arand> sno: hmm, that might be eligable for a bug report if there aren't one already... There should at least be an informative warning that swap locks gparted functions...
[15:20] <sno> arand: intersting, i honestly don't know if this happened in earliler versions, will try 9.10 live image and see
[15:21] <alieno> KB1JWQ, sure no rush
[15:21] <Pici> KB1JWQ: I believe  theres an option in System>Preferences>Preffered Applications that has to do with accessability, perhaps that might do it? I'm just guessing here.
[15:21] <arand> sno: I know swap inside an extended partition will show the same behaviour, but apparently the master container of the primary four acts similarly, it seems..
[15:22] <KB1JWQ> Pici: Yeah, I'm checking launchpad to see if anyone else has reported it, as a starting point.
[15:22] <sno> guess it would be understandable if using extended partitions, but im not so *shrug*
[15:22] <KB1JWQ> Pici: Mind if I PM you?
[15:22] <Pici> KB1JWQ: go ahead.
[15:22] <KB1JWQ> (Unrelated to the issue)
[15:23] <Pici> (its still okay)
[15:23]  * arand is off
[15:25] <deanus> Is fglrx available/installable yet?
[15:29] <Dr_Willis_> ive heard mention that it is.. but ive no idea
[15:31] <ZykoticK9> deanus, you might want to check the status/comments in bug #494699 and see what people are saying there
[15:31] <Imperion> help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1436138 (3D rendering abysmally slow)
[15:31] <KB1JWQ> FOund the solution to my question.  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6383300 solved it, but that was extremely un-intuitive.  Is it worth filing a bug report for?
[15:36] <deanus> trying the amd64 fglrx debs now.
[15:38] <deanus> dont know why I need lib32gcc1 libc6-i386  tho...oh well i`ll go along with it
[15:40] <deanus> cool, it installed/built..  ATI Fire GL appears in hardware drivers.
[15:41] <deanus> here goes...
[15:48] <deanus> it works.
[15:48] <deanus> had to do aticonfig --initial before desktop effects could be enabled,
[15:49] <deanus> or use CCC
[15:49] <deanus> it boots up using a low res splash screen tho..
[15:50] <plitter> is there a way to update alpha 3 to beta 1?
[15:51] <BUGabundo_remote> plitter: sure
[15:51] <BUGabundo_remote> run you fav apt interface
[15:51] <BUGabundo_remote> its that easy
[15:51] <BUGabundo_remote> actually I'm wrong
[15:51] <BUGabundo_remote> you can't get Beta1... we are past it now.
[15:51] <plitter> we are?
[15:51] <plitter> no we aint, i just downloaded it
[15:51] <BUGabundo_remote> plitter: I would go with : $ sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
[15:52] <BUGabundo_remote> or update-manager
[15:52] <BUGabundo_remote> plitter: B1 is 5 days old... trust me
[15:52] <BUGabundo_remote> you already have a bunch of updates after it
[15:52] <BUGabundo_remote> tip: zsync to a daily image, when ever you want to get a newer test iso
[15:53] <ZykoticK9> plitter, "best1" is just a point in time, there have been updates - so now it's past, examples of this are in Update Manager as well as new Daily ISOs
[15:53] <Pici> *beta1
[15:55] <plitter> not exactly sure what u meant but doing the upgrade with the commands now:)
[15:55] <Pici> sudo aptitude update; sudo aptitude full-upgrade
[15:56] <BUGabundo_remote> Pici: nothing is requiring full-upgrade
[15:57] <Pici> BUGabundo_remote: I always do it anyway.
[15:57] <BUGabundo_remote> and running it without being sure of the consequeces can do more evil then good
[15:57] <BUGabundo_remote> oh me too
[15:57] <BUGabundo_remote> I just don't accept the changes
[15:57] <BUGabundo_remote> I just want to know what they are
[15:57] <ZykoticK9> Fresh install from beta1 (Mythbuntu) cd, now fully updated - Nvidia 6150 (onboard) video fails to start X - tried with no xorg.conf as well as nvidia-settings xorg.conf = same result.  Nvidia-xorg, X log at http://pastebin.com/6f4CiBSj -- without xorg.conf at http://pastebin.com/0S5cA6ip
[15:57] <BUGabundo_remote> alias aptitudeupgrade='sudo aptitude update ; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade ; sudo aptitude full-upgrade'
[15:58] <technoviking> ZykoticK9: same here
[15:58] <ZykoticK9> technoviking, same gfx card?  same Mythbuntu?
[15:59] <technoviking> nvidia card with Ubuntu
[15:59] <technoviking> keeps going to safe graphic mode
[15:59] <ZykoticK9> technoviking, on my other nvidia system it is working fine (from alpha2 install mind you)
[16:00] <technoviking> will work with 173 driver, but crappy video output
[16:02] <flodine> can someone tell me why lucid is working my hard drive when im doing nothing.
[16:03] <CalmvsKhaos> In Ubuntu having issue Does anyone know of a work around for alt-sysRq-k or even REISUB doesnt do anything? Ive searched google no luck :(
[16:04] <flodine> anyone else running a t42p with lucid and after install harddrive still working.
[16:04] <gnomefreak> flodine: does it happen when you restart?
[16:05]  * gnomefreak thinks its hardware profiling that is causing it
[16:05] <flodine> yes sir and im not doing anything
[16:05] <ZykoticK9> flodine, try running "top" and see what's using memory/cpu that could be accessing your HD
[16:06] <abhi_nav> wll you recommend me to use beta 10.04 and upgrade it to final 10.04? I want it for day to day use. I want stable version. But cant wait one month. Or should I now Install 9.10 and when final 10.04 comes upgrade to it?
[16:06] <gnomefreak> abhi_nav: use 9.10 until 10.04 is stable
[16:06] <ZykoticK9> abhi_nav, if "stable" is your main concern - then wait till final
[16:06] <gnomefreak> best ^^^
[16:06] <Pici> Lord-Rahl: On a terminal, you can use: sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[16:06] <abhi_nav> but how to know that when 10.04 becomes stable?
[16:07] <gnomefreak> abhi_nav: in april of 2010
[16:07] <Lord-Rahl> How can I do a inplace upgrade from 9.10 kubuntu to kubuntu 10.4
[16:07] <Traveler7> is it beta or RC?
[16:07] <gnomefreak> Lord-Rahl: kde has an update manager of some sort i thought
[16:07] <gnomefreak> Traveler7: beta1
[16:07] <abhi_nav> gnomefreak: can i do like, e.g. have beta and accept whatever it performance, because just matter of one month, and then upgrade?
[16:08] <abhi_nav> ZykoticK9^^
[16:08] <gnomefreak> abhi_nav: there is still breakage so if everyday use i would not upgrade until final
[16:08] <Pici> Lord-Rahl: Did you see my reply, I answered before you asked.
[16:08] <Traveler7> any major bugs
[16:08] <Lord-Rahl> pici
[16:08] <BluesKaj> Lord-Rahl, you can do the command to upgrade in the terminal once the final stable release is issued
[16:08] <Lord-Rahl> Pici: yup thanks that worked :)
[16:08] <abhi_nav> gnomefreak: but then upgradation from 9.10 to 10.04 wll have its own new bugs?
[16:09] <Pici> Lord-Rahl: Great :)
[16:09] <gnomefreak> Traveler7: we can not accuratly answer that question
[16:09] <Traveler7> gnomefreak :) where can i take the beta but netbook remix
[16:09] <gnomefreak> abhi_nav: a system is never without bugs but the worst of them are normally fixed by release. since it is a LTS its best to wait
[16:10] <gnomefreak> Traveler7: i dont understand what you mean
[16:10] <gnomefreak> upgrade == beta1
[16:10] <gnomefreak> doesnt much matter what you are running
[16:10] <Traveler7> gnomefreak i need ubuntu for the 9" netbooks
[16:10] <Lord-Rahl> Pici: I search for two day for that command on the web.:)
[16:10] <abhi_nav> gnomefreak: so what should I do? 1. Wait for 10.04 and then fresh clean install of 10.04 or 2. Now Install 9.10 and when 10.04 comes upgrade to it? which one?
[16:11] <BluesKaj> Lord-Rahl, or you can upgrade from 9.10 with the command sudo do-release-upgrade -d , if you want to upgrade to 10.04 before it's officially released
[16:11] <gnomefreak> abhi_nav: upgrade when 10.04 is stable
[16:11] <abhi_nav> gnomefreak: ok thanx
[16:11] <Pici> BluesKaj: I assume thats what he was asking.
[16:11] <abhi_nav> ZykoticK9 and gnomefreak: thank you!
[16:11] <gnomefreak> Traveler7: IIRC there is a netboot remix
[16:11] <Lord-Rahl> BluesKaj: yep thanks i good now :)
[16:11] <gnomefreak> abhi_nav: np
[16:12] <abhi_nav> :)
[16:12] <Traveler7> hmm
[16:12] <ZykoticK9> gnomefreak, you mean "netbook edition" ;) it was renamed
[16:12] <gnomefreak> oh
[16:12] <gnomefreak> yeah that than :)
[16:13] <gnomefreak> im not seeing it on daily site
[16:13] <Lord-Rahl> is it true that in this release xorg does not have a xorg.conf file?
[16:14] <gnomefreak> Lord-Rahl: correct
[16:15] <Lord-Rahl> gnomefreak: do you know if ati and nvidia have drivers release for this new vrs? i have both desktop and laptop
[16:15] <gnomefreak> vrs?
[16:16] <CalmvsKhaos> In Ubuntu having issue Does anyone know of a work around for alt-sysRq-k or even REISUB doesnt do anything? Ive searched google no luck :(
[16:16] <Lord-Rahl> gnomefreak: I mean no xorg file bot write one as you know
[16:17] <gnomefreak> Lord-Rahl: you mean that ther eis a file that replaced it?
[16:17] <ZykoticK9> Lord-Rahl, the xorg not being present happened in Kamic first.  there is nvidia drivers.  ati i'm not sure, see bug #494699
[16:18] <lorenz__> hi guys
[16:18] <lorenz__> I'm having an issue with empathy - I cannot sign on anymore
[16:18] <BluesKaj> Lord-Rahl, after installing the nvidi-current driver for your card , do sudo nvidi-xconfig and that command will write new xorg.conf file for the setup
[16:18] <jmcantrell> is ubuntu one optional in lucid?
[16:18] <BluesKaj> err nvidia
[16:18] <lorenz__> more specifially, I cannot set my status to anything via the MeMenu (I thnk that is what it is called)
[16:19] <lorenz__> am I missing a package or something?
[16:20] <lorenz__> am I alone here?
[16:20] <jmcantrell> the weather on the clock applet is not showing? is there anything i can do to force a refresh or something?
[16:20] <Lord-Rahl> BluesKaj: Thanks I was not sure if Xorg would read a file if present. This confirms my thought it would
[16:20] <jmcantrell> lorenz__: just use pidgin
[16:21] <lorenz__> that's not really the solution I was hoping for, jmcantrell
[16:21] <tgpraveen12> lorenz__: me menu is for twitter and other broadcast accounts
[16:21] <jmcantrell> empathy blows
[16:21] <ZykoticK9> lorenz__, when you click on the "me menu" is everything grey?  is empathy running and are you signed into some networks?
[16:21] <tgpraveen12> not to set chat status
[16:21] <lorenz__> Zykotick9: right, everything is grey - empathy is running and I'm not signed in to any network (it says I'm set to offline)
[16:21] <tgpraveen12> lorenz__: the status msg cant be seet. but available/busy can be set
[16:22] <lorenz__> it's greyed out for me
[16:22] <tgpraveen12> lorenz__: use gwibber to configure an account and it wont be greyed out
[16:22] <ZykoticK9> lorenz__, in empathy sign into something - then it will be ungreyed in me menu
[16:22] <tgpraveen12> use broadcast in messaging indicator
[16:22] <lorenz__> but how can I sign in to something in empathy? there is no "connect" button or anything, is there?
[16:22] <lorenz__> I have set up several gwibber accounts, but they won't sign in either
[16:23] <ZykoticK9> lorenz__, i use pidgin instead for im so i can't help with empathy - but once you getting empathy straight i'm guessing me menu will work
[16:23] <lorenz__> sorr,y actually gwibber is online and working (facebook feed)
[16:24] <dabaR> Wow, moved the window manipulation icons.
[16:24] <BluesKaj> Lord-Rahl, if you do a clean install , then the nvidia-current driver should install from the kernel source and you should be fine.
[16:24] <dabaR> !mac-style
[16:25] <dabaR> Any links to places talking about that?
[16:25] <lorenz__> foudn the setting to go online in empathy, but it won't sign in...
[16:25] <ZykoticK9> dabaR, http://www.workswithu.com/2010/03/16/why-window-button-placement-doesnt-matter/
[16:26] <lorenz__> ah, if anyone cares: I had to disable and re-enable the accounts im empathy to get it working
[16:27] <ZykoticK9> lorenz__, and does the me menu work now?
[16:27] <dabaR> ZykoticK9: thanks very much, great links.
[16:27] <dabaR> link
[16:27] <lorenz__> menu works now, yes
[16:28] <lorenz__> just....no contacts are shown as online...this is weird
[16:28] <Lin> where can I get a howto to upgrade 9.10 to 10.04?
[16:29] <guntbert> Lin: remember 10.4 is still beta
[16:30] <Lin> guntbert, remembered =D
[16:31] <guntbert> Lin: so "upgrade " may not be the correct word ... :-)
[16:31] <Lin> guntbert, im just asking cause do-release-upgrade -d isnt working.
[16:31] <Lin> guntbert, I will do the old fashioned way, open /etc/apt/sources.list ;-)
[16:31] <guntbert> Lin: sorry I never did this in the beta state - so no hints from me
[16:31] <ZykoticK9> Lin, are you using KDE by chance?
[16:32] <Lin> ZykoticK9, no
[16:32] <gnomefreak> Lin: run update-manager -d
[16:32] <ZykoticK9> Lin, ok just checking
[16:32] <gnomefreak> that should do it
[16:32] <Lin> ok.. trying now =D only 12 files to update ;-)
[16:33] <Lin> i cannot call it a complete update to 10.04
[16:33] <lorenz__> well, I feel there are not too many empathy lovers on here
[16:33] <lorenz__> thanks for the help anyway, I'll figure out what the problem is...
[16:33] <Lin> not many. I really dont care =D
[16:33] <gnomefreak> may have to update packages before the upgrade to 10.04
[16:33] <Lin> both work to me
[16:33] <Lin> but i didnt like that consolidations on a single icon
[16:33] <gnomefreak> Lin: when you can upgrade you will see a button to press for dist upgrade
[16:34] <BluesKaj> Lin, sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[16:35] <Lin> BluesKaj, Checking for a new ubuntu release
[16:35] <Lin> No new release found
[16:36] <gnomefreak> Lin: does lsb_release -a tell you that you are on lucid or karmic
[16:36] <BluesKaj> Lin, odd then you must have it already, what does lsb_release -a say ?
[16:36] <gnomefreak> :)
[16:36] <Lin> Codename:	karmic
[16:36] <dabaR> Also the http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1 shows how to test the beta
[16:37] <dabaR> BluesKaj: Are you from ex-Yugoslavia by any chance?
[16:37] <BluesKaj> dabaR, nope, Canada
[16:38] <dabaR> BluesKaj: I live in Canada too. I just thought because of your nick. What's the story with the nick?
[16:39] <guntbert> !ot | dabaR
[16:39] <BluesKaj> dabaR, Kaj is my first name , rhymes with sky , and I play drums in a blues/rock band , hence the nick :)
[16:40] <dabaR> BluesKaj: cool.
[16:40] <BluesKaj> dabaR, i'm near Sudbury ON, where are you ?
[16:41] <gnomefreak> who was it with the ati bug? i found the bug report for it
[16:41] <dabaR> BluesKaj: In Winnipeg Manitoba.
[16:42] <dabaR> Well, there is only one winnipeg, probably.
[16:42] <BluesKaj> yup, been there a few times ,,spent asummer in the Whiteshell , Lac Du Bonnet...long ago :)
[16:45] <jmcantrell> how do i turn off the sound when the login screen appears?
[16:47] <JoshuaL> im having troubles with wpa2 enterprise connections
[16:48] <Lin> even after a apt-get-update; update-manager -d ; do-release-upgrade -d (returns No new releas found).
[16:48] <JoshuaL> i can connect fine but the connection is instable, altough it does appear to be connected
[16:48] <Lin> lsb_release -a returns karmic, how can I upgrade to 10.04?
[16:49] <BluesKaj> lin have you updated your sources.list ?
[16:50] <Lin> not yet. I will update now and do a old fashined dist-upgrade ;-)
[16:51] <rye> Lin, doublecheck the sources list, possibly some older upgrade failed leaving you with lucid deb links?
[16:52] <BluesKaj> Lin, run this : sudo aptitude install update-manager-core
[16:52] <Lin> BluesKaj, i did already =D
[16:52] <Lin> now im running with sources pointing to lucid repos.
[16:52] <Lin> will run a upgrade now
[16:52] <gnomefreak> Lin: comment out any extrea repos you have
[16:53] <Lin> i did
[16:53] <BluesKaj> Lin, then run this sudo sed -i 's/karmic/lucid/g' /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
[16:53] <gnomefreak> k
[16:53] <Lin> lol. Im asking because i have tried everything =D
[16:53] <gnomefreak> not everything :)
[16:53] <Lin> BluesKaj, this method i know. I do it snce debian 2.0, im trying to do something more ubuntu way =D
[16:53] <Lin> im trying to feel like a regular user.
[16:54] <Lin> ok. regular users dont go to beta
[16:54] <BluesKaj> Lin, it's the same command as debian
[16:54] <Lin> BluesKaj, debian dont have do-release-upgrade
[16:55] <BluesKaj> kubuntu/ubuntu is debian based\
[16:55] <Lin> you mean, use .deb packages. ;-)
[16:55] <BluesKaj> lin did you try the command I posted above , sudo sed -i 's/karmic/lucid/g' /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude dist-upgrade
[16:55] <Lin> BluesKaj, this works =D
[16:56] <Lin> 3 hours and 8 minutes left ;-) thank you all!
[16:57] <BluesKaj> lin , I hope it goes well for you :)
[16:57] <Lin> BluesKaj, if dont.. I can handle ;-)
[16:59] <FFForever> anyone notice xorg flickers for a second every now and then on the lower half of the screen
[17:02] <Lord-Rahl> I choose the wrong boot drive in grub when doing the upgrade. what is the command so I may reselect the right one grub-update?
[17:03] <technoviking> Is anyone experiencing this bug and can confirm? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/532436
[17:07] <devurandom> Hi!
[17:07] <technoviking> ZykoticK9: try restarting gdm, and see if nvidia loads, maybe the same bug I'm having
[17:07] <ZykoticK9> technoviking, doesn't help here.  Thanks for the suggestion though.
[17:07] <devurandom> Is it possible to install Kubuntu 10.04_beta1 in e.g. german? The install automatically chooses english and no option to for me to choose.
[17:08] <high-rez> I think the boot menu on the dvd lets you select your language...
[17:09] <devurandom> I did that, the livecd desktop is in german already.
[17:10] <high-rez> But the install menus aren't localized?
[17:11] <devurandom> Nope, ubiquity is fully in english.
[17:16] <devurandom> But now it is "downloading language packs"... Does it have to do that for english, too?
[17:17] <Equs> devurandom, apparently yes
[17:17] <BUGabundo_remote> devurandom: no
[17:18] <FFForever> no love for me?
[17:19] <rye> devurandom, yes
[17:19] <devurandom> Is this a vote of the majority? ;)
[17:20] <Equs> well it did for me too
[17:20] <devurandom> But I think I saw some engb packages before, so I guess "yes" is the correct answer. ;)
[17:20] <quentusrex> Anyone here able to help debug a network driver instability issue?
[17:20] <quentusrex> I have had a bug that has lasted since 8.10, and seems to still be in 10.04
[17:20] <quentusrex> It is a known bug, and others have had issues as well
[17:21] <ChogyDan> quentusrex: does it have a bug report?
[17:21] <quentusrex> yes, here : https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/347711
[17:22] <quentusrex> The only way to 'reset' the driver to get access again is to run "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart"
[17:22] <quentusrex> and that will last for 'a while' under max network load
[17:22] <quentusrex> then it dies again.
[17:22] <git__> "unable to enumerate USB device" bug is bothering me
[17:22] <git__> occassionally my usb mouse would not work
[17:23] <quentusrex> ChogyDan, I have setup a testing system and I am able to reproduce the issue on demands
[17:23] <quentusrex> demand*
[17:23] <quentusrex> it only takes me about 20-30 minutes to cause the networking to fail.
[17:23] <ChogyDan> quentusrex: have you tried the .33 kernel?
[17:24] <quentusrex> ChogyDan, I have this motherboard: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=3160&ProductName=GA-P55-UD4P
[17:25] <ChogyDan> quentusrex: btw, I can't really help
[17:25] <ChogyDan> quentusrex: you should post upstream
[17:26] <mikelifeguard> Did the design team make a decision about keeping min/max/close buttons on the left vs right for the final release?
[17:27] <quentusrex> ChogyDan, no I have not tried that kernel
[17:27] <technoviking> My nvidia driver goes into safe mode when I boot into Lucid. restarting gdm will make the nvidia and X load properly. Anyideas what is causing the problem. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/532436
[17:27] <Equs> mikelifeguard,  who knows but there is an easy fix if you install ubuntu tweak
[17:28] <mikelifeguard> Equs: yeah, I have that already. I'm more concerned about what the UI team is doing.
[17:28] <mikelifeguard> On that note, does notify-osd still put the notifications randomly in the middle of your screen?
[17:29] <mc44> mikelifeguard: yes, and yes :p
[17:30] <mikelifeguard> mc44: ohaithar
[17:30] <mikelifeguard> Was their decision to move back to buttons on the right?
[17:30] <mc44> hahaha. No.
[17:30] <jmcantrell> what is the reasoning for moving it to the left? it seems like such a ridiculous and annoying change
[17:30] <mikelifeguard> They must have some nice drugs.
[17:31] <mikelifeguard> jmcantrell: More like pointless - the notify-osd thing is much worse :)
[17:31] <mikelifeguard> When users repeatedly report your feature as a bug, *it isn't a feature, it is a bug*
[17:31] <jmcantrell> mikelifeguard: i don't use notify-osd. where did it place the messages before?
[17:32] <mikelifeguard> in the corner
[17:32] <jmcantrell> ah
[17:32] <mikelifeguard> like any sane notification system would do
[17:32] <mikelifeguard> instead, it is now against the side of the screen, but randomly ... not in the corner, just... weirdly floating in the middle of nowhere about an inch from the top O___x
[17:32] <jmcantrell> is there an ubuntu-like distro that doesn't try to impose stuff like this on its users?
[17:32] <mikelifeguard> jmcantrell: mint is nice
[17:33] <mc44> mikelifeguard: well, to be fair, it's not randomly there, there is a reason (not that I agree with it)
[17:33] <mikelifeguard> even better, notify-osd can't be configured, even though the ui to configure it is still there :D
[17:33] <jmcantrell> mikelifeguard: i saw that. keeping it in mind
[17:33] <tgpraveen12> jmcantrell: u want to use GNOME upstream version it seems.
[17:33] <tgpraveen12> Fedora is good for it i hear though havent used it.
[17:33] <tgpraveen12> if u are an advanced user try arch.
[17:34] <mikelifeguard> mc44: Like I said, they have some nice drugs
[17:34] <ChogyDan> anyone ever use enlightenment?
[17:34] <mikelifeguard> tgpraveen12: That's spelled "you."
[17:34]  * mikelifeguard runs
[17:34] <jmcantrell> tgpraveen12: i just want to use a distro that is as easy to install and configure as ubuntu, but doesn't try to impose stuff like ubuntu
[17:35] <ChogyDan> jmcantrell: that is kinda a catch22, its easy to configure _because_ they make decisions for users before hand
[17:35] <pmatulis> that's right
[17:36] <jmcantrell> ChogyDan: not really. forcing users to use empathy and putting window controls on the left side is an imposition that has nothing to do with simplicity
[17:36] <deanus> "Forcing" ?  not really..
[17:37] <jmcantrell> deanus: forcing is probably a bit much, but they're definitely imposing it
[17:37] <mikelifeguard> It isn't about forcing anything on anyone. It is about making good UI design decisions. Canonical brags about having a world-class UI team, and in many cases they've done excellent work. But I also find it hard to believe that a world-class UI team would make this kind of error.
[17:37] <deanus> jmcantrell, empathy is there as a default app, like every other app there.. there aint no one preventing you installing pidgin.. so imposing is wrong too
[17:38] <ChogyDan> jmcantrell: empathy was a decision made by gnome, right?  (I still use pidgin btw)
[17:38] <tgpraveen12> ChogyDan: yes
[17:38] <mikelifeguard> Luckily it isn't my money being wasted on paying for the bad decisions, it is just my time in dealing with them.
[17:38] <deanus> network-manager is the default, i use wicd, go figure
[17:39] <jmcantrell> you're free to disagree. i still see it as an imposition
[17:44] <BluesKaj> deanus, jmcan
[17:44] <deanus> I really dont see what all the fuss is about.. you dont like something, you change it.  Thats always been the way with linux
[17:44] <BluesKaj> wicd is solid , nm is flaky ...that's my experience
[17:46] <jmcantrell> it seems that they are not giving us sane defaults to start with
[17:46] <JoshuaL> im having problems with wpa2 enterprise, i already reported the bug a few months ago¸and there it is still marked as new
[17:46] <yofel> JoshuaL: which bug?
[17:46] <Saviq> hi all, trying to get a xubuntu 10.4b1 alternate install onto a usb stick, tried unetbootin and dd so far, neither worked... can anyone report any success installing without an optical drive?
[17:47] <JoshuaL> yofel, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/520111
[17:47] <Saviq> I can't get it to boot at all, with unetbootin it shouts about a floppy (sic!) missing
[17:47] <Saviq> with dd it completely ignores the stick and boots from hd
[17:48] <deanus> usb startup creator?
[17:48] <yofel> JoshuaL: hm, do you get any messages in /var/log/messages /var/log/syslog or the output of 'dmesg' when this happens?
[17:48] <kklimonda> Saviq: have you tried usb-creator-gtk ?
[17:49] <deanus> I personally use http://psychoticspoon.blogspot.com/2009/01/booting-multiple-livecds-from-single.html  as I have a large stick and its easy puttin iso`s to.
[17:49] <JoshuaL> yofel,  i have no idea to be honest
[17:49] <Saviq> kklimonda: it will only work from an installed system?
[17:49] <yofel> JoshuaL: oh, and can you plese run 'apport-collect 520111' after this happens to you again so we get a bit more information on the bug to work with? Thx.
[17:49] <Saviq> k, will get a VM running
[17:50] <quentusrex> ChogyDan, post upstream? where?
[17:50] <yofel> JoshuaL: if you just say that it's unstable it could be anything from the applet, n-m itself to the kernel driver that's buggy
[17:50] <BluesKaj> jmcantrell, IMO nm and pulseaudio are examples of apps with a dev's agenda behind them , theynwork for some setps but not nall
[17:51] <JoshuaL> yofel, can i do it now? it happend earlier today when i was at school (and school blocks the ubuntu bug report tool)
[17:51] <mikelifeguard> BluesKaj: You mean world domination? :o
[17:51] <ChogyDan> quentusrex: see the link to the kernel bug?
[17:51] <kklimonda> BluesKaj: they are both examples of the software that have to deal with messy drivers and whose developers decided to do things the right way
[17:51] <yofel> JoshuaL: yes (I think)
[17:51] <BetaClone> Anyone knows why the SpeedLevel and Accel options are removed from xsetwacom in Lucid?
[17:52] <Saviq> kklimonda: will I be able to create a 10.4 installation stick from 9.10 installed?
[17:52] <BetaClone> Or any ideas for where to find more about it? X11 irc channel or is it a Wacom issue?
[17:53] <kklimonda> Saviq: you should be
[17:53] <Saviq> kklimonda: ok thanks, will try
[17:53] <JoshuaL> yofel, To finish authorizing the application identified as apport-collect to access Launchpad on your behalf you should go back to the application window in which you started the process and inform it that you have done your part of the process.
[17:53] <JoshuaL> yofel, nothing happens when that message shows up
[17:54] <msandbu> howdy, anyone know howto install xbmc for lucid?
[17:54] <yofel> JoshuaL: hm, it should open your default browser at that point, does it give you a link?
[17:54] <BluesKaj> kklimonda, nm worked for 24 hrs on this laptop and pulseaudio prevented alsa  from working til I removed it
[17:54] <yofel> JoshuaL: are you using karmic or lucid btw
[17:55] <JoshuaL> yofel, lucid, and yes it opens the browser and asks for permission (which i accept) but after that message nothing happens
[17:55] <yofel> JoshuaL: did you press enter in the terminal?
[17:55] <JoshuaL> yofel, ah i started it via alt+f2 :)
[17:56] <yofel> oh, honestly no idea what happens in that case..., abort it and try again... I guess
[17:56] <JoshuaL> yofel, via terminal it works. ty
[17:56] <kklimonda> BluesKaj: most problems with both pulseaudio and network-manager can be traced back to either misbehaving applications or drivers. not all of them but most. and I know people don't care, just saying how it is.
[17:57] <yofel> JoshuaL: btw, you can run 'ubuntu-bug ... --save <reportfilename>' in a terminal to save a bug report instead of sending it immediately (usefull if you don't have a working connection)
[17:57] <oday> hello everybody
[17:58] <JoshuaL> yofel, a good to know! Thanks
[17:58] <BluesKaj> kklimonda, why nm is still the default is beyond me..there are so many probs with it.
[17:58] <oday> i'd like to ask, can my Howto guide for Karmic get me through Lucid just fine?
[17:58] <yofel> JoshuaL: later just run 'ubuntu-bug <reportfilename>' to send it
[17:58] <oday> because from the exterior, i dont see that big of a difference
[17:58] <JoshuaL> yofel, thanks! Now I have to eat.
[17:59] <oday> and also,  does the Empathy on Lucid or any other distro, use the same port as MSN does?
[17:59] <kklimonda> BluesKaj: because there is no better solution and not all of us are having any problems with it.
[18:00] <BluesKaj> kklimonda, stick around , yo'll ses lots of questions how to get nm to work
[18:00] <BluesKaj> you'll see
[18:00] <oday> anybody? :)
[18:00] <kklimonda> BluesKaj: I do stick around
[18:03] <kklimonda> BluesKaj: what card do you have btw?
[18:03] <ChogyDan> oday: your questions is very generic
[18:03] <ChogyDan> *question
[18:03] <oday> alright
[18:04] <ChogyDan> oday: you will probably just have to try the guide and see
[18:04] <oday> ok
[18:04] <oday> and about MSN and Empathy? do they use the same port?
[18:04] <oday> if for example an ISP has blocked the MSN port, will Empathy not work as well?
[18:04] <BluesKaj> kklimonda, network card ?
[18:05] <kklimonda> BluesKaj: yes
[18:05] <ChogyDan> oday: correct, the apps don't choose the port, it is the IM protocal
[18:05] <oday> i see, right
[18:05] <oday> ok
[18:05] <nightsjammies> I f*cking hate windows, and apple.
[18:05] <nightsjammies> though I like my itouch...
[18:05] <oday> and apache for web server, right?
[18:05] <oday> local web server, to run from 127....
[18:05] <nightsjammies> which I've managed to break..
[18:07] <BluesKaj> kklimonda, atheros AR928X
[18:08] <oday> im trying to find out if i have apache, i used "locate apache", and i only got two files, one in etc called "apache2ctl" and the other in usr called "README.apache2"
[18:08] <oday> i'm sure there would be more output if it were installed, right?
[18:09] <BluesKaj> kklimonda, I'm happy with wicd ..works well
[18:09] <nightsjammies> hey, quick question. does anyone know if it's possible to get rhythmbox to work in karmic like it's working in lynx?
[18:09] <ChogyDan> oday: ya,  you can also try this command: apt-cache policy apache2       and to see if it is running: ps aux | grep apache
[18:11] <kklimonda> nightsjammies: what do you mean?
[18:12] <nightsjammies> well, rhythmbox writes music to my itouch in lucid, but not in karmic. Is there anyway to change that without upgrading right now?
[18:12] <nightsjammies> you know, by installing packages and stuff?
[18:13] <kklimonda> maybe - you could find out what packages have to be updated/installed/replaced and do it
[18:14] <nightsjammies> where would I find that list?
[18:14] <kklimonda> start with checking dependencies of the rhythmbox package
[18:15] <nightsjammies> you mean as in lucid vs. karmic?
[18:15] <kklimonda> yes - but that may not be worth your effor, there is only a month or so before 10.04 release
[18:16] <nightsjammies> well, I've got the beta, but I like karmic
[18:16] <BluesKaj> nightsjammies, lucid seems quite stable atm , take a chance, you might solve yor problem :)
[18:23] <dbristow> I am downloading the 10.04 beta1, any reason why the SHA256SUMs wouldn't match?  I'm getting it from mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/10.04/
[18:24] <red> b76d1000-b77ef000 r--p 00000000 08:05 1442763    /usr/lib/locale/en_US.utf8/LC_COLLATE
[18:24] <red> Aborted (core dumped)
[18:24] <red> during safe-upgrade
[18:24] <red> what does that mean?
[18:24] <guntbert> dbristow: how did you download? with your browser?
[18:25] <dbristow> No, with lftp.
[18:25] <nightsjammies> no I know that it's mostly stable, but I just like the way that karmic looks
[18:27] <nightsjammies> and the new locations of the minimize/ max/ kill buttons keep messing me up.
[18:28] <guntbert> dbristow: in any case - if the checksums don't match the d/l is broken - try it with wget
[18:28] <dbristow> OK, with wget.
[18:30] <red> The following packages have been kept back: gdc parted udisks
[18:30] <red> kept why?
[18:31] <dbristow> OK, this time I will wget it from releases.ubuntu itself.
[18:31] <ZykoticK9> red, install libparted0 and that will resolve the parted and udisks parts
[18:33] <vish> how do i clear my .xsession-errors?  it seems pretty overloaded with a gedit error loop [~nearly 330mb of error created when i tried to open it in gedit]
[18:35] <vish> which was basically the gedit error looping itself in the .xsession-errors
[18:36] <red> ZykoticK9: it says two packages broken, 1 package to be installed, 2 with conflicts but to be installed and then says "Score is 330"
[18:36] <red> what does the score mean? :D
[18:37] <ZykoticK9> red, i've never heard of "score" before
[18:38] <ZykoticK9> red, from cli i'd try running "sudo apt-get install libparted0"
[18:44] <nightsjammies> okay, could someone please do me a quick favor, and check your dependencies in synaptic for rhytmbox, and then paste the output so that I can compare?
[18:44] <nightsjammies> Please?
[18:45] <red> ZykoticK9: thats what I did and it worked
[18:45] <red> just odd stuff :)
[18:45] <red> and i use aptitude instead of apt-get
[18:45] <BigRedS_> nightsjammies: http://pastebin.com/RSDb9gNa
[18:46] <mikebeecham> can anyone tell me if there's a way to reposition the panel clock, so that the date and time are beside each other, rather than above each other?
[18:46] <red> mikebeecham: only thing I know that works is to reduce size of the panel
[18:46] <nightsjammies> sweet, thanks much BigRedS :)
[18:46] <mikebeecham> red: I tried reducing down to 16pt, but nothing changed
[18:46] <red> oh
[18:47] <mikebeecham> the size of the panel didnt even shrink!
[18:47] <mikebeecham> I'm on 10.04
[18:48] <red> same
[18:48] <red> checked with gconf-editor
[18:48] <red> couldnt find any hidden settings for that either
[18:49] <zniavre> mikebeecham, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/11/gnome-panel-clock-themes.html
[18:51] <vish> mikebeecham: the size of the panel usually lies , it is tied down to the font size
[18:51] <vish> mikebeecham: if you make the fonts smaller , the panel size can be made smaller
[18:51] <claptrap> Ok, so I just did a "Mark All Upgrades" in synaptic and now I can't log in to my Ubuntu install.
[18:52] <red> is there any app for ubuntu that when I drag my mouse to screen corner "X" it would automaticly do something, like lock screen or activate screensaver
[18:52] <yofel> red: doesn't compiz have a plugin for that?
[18:53] <claptrap> And I'm completely locked out now~
[18:53] <mikebeecham> zniavre: thanks for that...I just went through it....and it doesn't work :(
[18:53] <BigRedS_> Since updating to Lucid I've no TTYs bar the one running X. I can ctrl+alt+Fn and switch to a blank screen, though. This is with the vesa driver. I have a damaged Intel Mobile chipset, and when the Intel driver works, I think I had the same problem.
[18:54] <BigRedS_> I did once get another tty, but I can't remember under what conditions. Anyone else had this?
[18:54] <claptrap> Ok, so I just did a "Mark All Upgrades" in synaptic and now I can't log in to my Ubuntu install. I'm completely locked out of my Ubuntu at the moment.
[18:54] <BigRedS_> claptrap: Can you log in through a tty?
[18:54] <yofel> claptrap: when did you do that and do you remember what packages were upgraded?
[18:54]  * BigRedS_ can't exactly remember what 'mark all upgrades' does in synaptic
[18:55] <claptrap> About ten minutes ago, and no. There were a lot; I was trying to get rid of "obsolete packages" so that bug reports could go through.
[18:55] <claptrap> BigRedS_ About ten minutes ago, and no. There were a lot; I was trying to get rid of "obsolete packages" so that bug reports could go through.
[18:56] <BigRedS_> What happens when you try? Or is there just no login prompt? Are you running an ssh server?
[18:56] <tasslehoff> I'm considering karmic->lynx via apt. Is that likely to work atm? No known breakage?
[18:57] <claptrap> BigRedS_: There is a login prompt. I type in my password, screen goes blank and looks like it's going to log in, I hear the little "da dink" sound it goes back to prompt. Wrong password acts like it normally would. Dunno what an ssh server is.
[18:58] <mikebeecham> ha!  discovered the problem
[18:59] <mikebeecham> it's the font I'm using...it doesn't like Myriad Bold
[18:59] <mikebeecham> which is the only one I like!!
[18:59] <red> :p
[18:59] <red> I like Segoe UI
[18:59] <red> (The Windows 7 font)
[19:01] <claptrap> BigRedS_: Any thoughts?
[19:02] <BigRedS_> claptrap: sorry, distracted by my other broken box ;)
[19:03] <claptrap> BigRedS_: Oh dear, lol.
[19:03] <BigRedS_> but nothing comes to mind, really
[19:03] <BigRedS_> haha, the other one's a little more, er, planned
[19:03] <nightsjammies> Has anyone gotten video in rhythmbox to work via: http://code.google.com/p/rhythmbox-videosource/
[19:04] <mikebeecham> nightsjammies: havn't used RB for ages....Banshee is MUCH bette
[19:04] <claptrap> BigRedS_: Any basics I can be run through on something like this? I'm a tad nubly.
[19:04] <kklimonda> heh, as I've been afraid living in "the rest of EU" limits the amount of music I can buy from the store :/
[19:06] <claptrap> BigRedS_: I just tried doing a startx. It's throwing up errors.
[19:06] <nightsjammies> will banshee write to my itouch?
[19:06] <BigRedS_> claptrap: Ah, were you in the terminal so far?
[19:06] <BigRedS_> If you do   grep EE /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[19:06] <claptrap> BigRedS_: No, I just tried that after a bit of Googling. I'm in it now.
[19:07] <BigRedS_> you should see all the actual errors from X, rather than just notes about how it's doing and what it thinks of the weather
[19:07] <claptrap> rofl
[19:08] <claptrap> WW warning, EE rror, NI not implemented, ?? unknown
[19:08] <claptrap> Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
[19:08] <claptrap> And then kicks back to prompt.
[19:09] <BigRedS_> I don't know much about xorg really (i break it lots, but don't pay much attention when fixing), but generally someone else has had whatever errors you're having before
[19:09] <BigRedS_> Though X-related problems shouldn't stop you logging in
[19:09] <BigRedS_> perhaps check /var/log/auth.log (i think)
[19:09] <claptrap> Well
[19:09] <claptrap> I was able to log in just fine in terminal
[19:10] <BigRedS_> ahhh
[19:10] <claptrap> Should I do this
[19:10] <claptrap> dpkg-reconfigure thingy?
[19:10] <BigRedS_> It wont hurt
[19:11] <claptrap> Mmk.
[19:11] <BigRedS_> It basically configures X with a mix of best-guess and your answers to questions
[19:11] <claptrap> Magic cookie not very magic.
[19:11] <claptrap> :E
[19:12] <claptrap> That did uh
[19:12] <claptrap> Absolutely nad.
[19:12] <claptrap> lol
[19:12] <claptrap> nada*
[19:12] <BigRedS_> haha. it's great when that happens
[19:12] <BigRedS_> any answers from googling the logs?
[19:13] <mikebeecham> goodness I love 10.04
[19:13] <claptrap> WW warning, EE rror, NI not implemented, ?? unknown <- This?
[19:13] <BigRedS_> Nah, that's just the key
[19:13] <BigRedS_> you're (currently) only interested in EE lines
[19:13] <BigRedS_> if there are any, in your /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[19:14] <claptrap> Oh, the grep command didn't return anything but that.
[19:15] <oday> i have apache now, and ive put the folders and files i want to put in "www"
[19:15] <oday> but when i try to access 127, i get Permission denied
[19:15] <oday> why is that?
[19:15] <BigRedS_> ahhh, then X isn't throwing any errors either
[19:15] <BigRedS_> maybe check /var/log/gdm
[19:15]  * BigRedS_ clutches at straw
[19:15] <BigRedS_> s
[19:16] <git__> mikebeecham, what u love about 10.04?
[19:16] <git__> does suspend/resume work in 10.04?
[19:17] <claptrap> grep that^?
[19:18] <jmcantrell> is there a way to reset the compiz settings to the default?
[19:18] <mikebeecham> git__: I love the new 'feel' to it, but I'm loving some of the new additions.  I'm wondering whether it's worth investigating empathy yet
[19:18] <vish> anyone have a good auto-away plugin for xchat?
[19:19] <git__> mikebeecham, my experience with empathy on 9.10 is subpar
[19:19] <mikebeecham> in fact, the only things I cant do in Ubuntu these days is a) Use photoshop and b) remove drm from my purchased itunes tvshows
[19:19] <TrueSongMedia> Empathy has always disappointed me
[19:19] <git__> mikebeecham, i'm more interested in kvm and suspend/resume of 10.04
[19:19] <markl_> i like pidgin a lot
[19:19] <git__> pidgin = empathy
[19:19] <mikebeecham> git__: the last time I tried it (a while ago) I was less than impressed...I use pidgin
[19:19] <BigRedS_> claptrap: tail it first
[19:19] <TrueSongMedia> No it's not
[19:19] <claptrap> BigRedS_: Eh?
[19:19] <mikebeecham> and no pidgin does not = empathy
[19:19] <BigRedS_> I can't remember the format of it, and don't have gdm on here
[19:20] <BigRedS_> tail /var/log/gdm  < claptrap
[19:20] <TrueSongMedia> git__, Pidgin is a completely different program
[19:20] <mikebeecham> there are simply LOADS of things pidgin can do that empathy cant
[19:20] <BigRedS_> it'll print the last several (20?) lines of the file
[19:20] <TrueSongMedia> which can be installed via apt or the Software directory
[19:20] <BigRedS_> which is normally the bit of the logfile with interesting bits in it
[19:20] <mikebeecham> or I would have jumped to empathy by now
[19:21]  * TrueSongMedia just hopes the button situation is fixed by release
[19:21] <jmcantrell> how can i change the theme used by gdm?
[19:21] <claptrap> Error reading gdm: is a directory
[19:21] <claptrap> Can't CD into it either
[19:22] <TrueSongMedia> You can't. jmcantrell :/ Unfortunately
[19:22] <TrueSongMedia> If you mean the login screen
[19:22] <TrueSongMedia> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/23982/
[19:22] <TrueSongMedia> If you mean the UI theme, that's in Appearance
[19:22] <BigRedS_> claptrap: try sudo cp  ing
[19:22] <BigRedS_> you might need to be root to read the logs
[19:23] <git__> ubuntu one does not seem to work
[19:23] <BigRedS_> though, thinking about it, if X doesn't error, and you have issues loggin in only in X, I'd try creating a new user and seeing if they have those problems
[19:23] <git__> i tried to sync a 35MB zip file, it doesn't do it
[19:23] <arand> jmcantrell: As with Karmic, customization is very limited, https://edge.launchpad.net/~gdm2setup/+archive/gdm2setup has an utility which does the few things that are avialable.
[19:23] <claptrap> Alright, how can I do that?
[19:24] <Jaymac> sweet, music store is up :)
[19:26] <claptrap> Alright, created a new user. Lessee.
[19:29] <Bittarman> hmm.. what would "resuming libgcrypt" at startup imply?
[19:29] <Bittarman> its been happening for a little while now, I figured an update would have gotten rid by now
[19:30] <Jaymac> Bittarman, have you an encrypted home directory?
[19:30] <Bittarman> Jaymac, nope
[19:30] <claptrap> Motherf---
[19:30] <Jaymac> Bittarman, then *shrug* sorry
[19:30] <claptrap> Now it wants to check my hard disks and won't let me skip it
[19:30] <Bittarman> Jaymac, heh, no worries
[19:33] <claptrap> BigRedS_: Still around?
[19:34] <BigRedS_> ish
[19:34] <BigRedS_> Er, you might just have to wait for the fsck if there's no 'skip' option
[19:34] <claptrap> Oh, got past that.
[19:34] <claptrap> But uh
[19:34] <BigRedS_> ah, cool
[19:34] <claptrap> Now it's telling me the PW for the new user is wrong. >> Same password works in terminal, though.
[19:35] <BigRedS_> ah. that's definitely something broken, then
[19:35] <BigRedS_> (not that you hadn't already worked that out)
[19:35] <yofel> claptrap: anything keyboard layout dependent in the PW?
[19:35] <claptrap> I used the numpad? :E
[19:36] <yofel> hm
[19:37] <BigRedS_> try setting a password that's all lower-case letters
[19:37] <BigRedS_> just to eliminate odd keymapping issues and the like
[19:38] <claptrap> Mmk
[19:38] <claptrap> y u haet me ubuntu
[19:38] <claptrap> y
[19:38] <claptrap> Alright, new PW worked. Same problem on the new user, though.
[19:39] <claptrap> Y'know, I'm noticing there's nothing at all in the "sessions" menu at the bottom; ot
[19:39] <claptrap> it's grayed out. Is that relevant?
[19:40] <fabio_> kms+plymouth working there fo u?
[19:41] <claptrap> Dunno what you mean.
[19:41] <fabio_> bootplash
[19:41] <claptrap> Yea, I'm seeing that.
[19:42] <fabio_> kernel modesetting for the video card also
[19:42] <claptrap> Hmm?
[19:42] <fabio_> nvidia or ati?
[19:42] <claptrap> Nvidia
[19:43] <fabio_> please can u try this: dmesg | grep modesetting
[19:44] <blekos> hello, the window buttons (minimize,close,maximize) are on the left. Is that because of 10.4?
[19:44] <blekos> (and on the different order)
[19:44] <claptrap> fabio_: Nothing showed.
[19:44] <fabio_> blekos: you can change that
[19:44] <fabio_> claptrap: dmesg | grep drm
[19:45] <arand> blekos: yes it is.
[19:45] <blekos> i've tried changing the themes, and window borders with no luck
[19:45] <fabio_> i didn't notice because im with kde 4.4
[19:45] <yofel> blekos: it has nothing to do with the theme
[19:46] <fabio_> it's a metacity trick
[19:46] <yofel> blekos: it's a gconf settiing for all themes
[19:46] <claptrap> fabio_: Nothing again.
[19:46] <yofel> blekos: if you really can't live with it there's a way to change it, but how about trying it out for a while?
[19:47] <fabio_> claptrap: ok thank u, it's ok
[19:47] <blekos> well ok (but as you know the power of habit is quite strong-especially if you want to installed for others...)
[19:48] <fabio_> i can't stand gnome
[19:48] <claptrap> It does look like gnome is to blame, from the Googling I'm doing. v.v lol
[19:48] <blekos> fabio:but gnome support alt+shift for changing the keyboard :)
[19:49] <ionte> hi. i'm transferring files between my two not-too-old 500GB hard-drives, and the transfer is really slow. 3-4 MB/s, and decreasing. Any ideas?
[19:49] <claptrap> fabio_: So, any ideas? x.x
[19:49] <fabio_> plymouth is working for you, not for me
[19:50] <fabio_> i wish i had a better card
[19:50] <yofel> blekos: use the gconf command from here to change it if you want https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Lucid/AmbianceMod
[19:50] <fabio_> ionte: we can run a speed test on your hard drive
[19:51] <ionte> fabio_: i've tried with "hdparm -tT and get 109.19 MB/sec on disk reads, on both disks
[19:52] <arand> I'm eagerly awaiting Bug #533758 ...
[19:52] <ZykoticK9> yofel, just as an FYI that particular gconf command is missing the "menu" entry which typically goes before the :
[19:52] <yofel> blekos: and alt+shift for layout change is something you can use in KDE as well, so not exactly a gnome point here ;)
[19:52] <fabio_> ionte: let me try it here
[19:52] <ionte> or wait, 77 MB/sec on the second one, but still ok i think ..
[19:53] <ionte> i'm quite sure this has to do with nautilus
[19:53] <yofel> ZykoticK9: I know, but it's not like I have the correct gconf key just ready for copy and paste here
[19:54] <fabio_> Timing cached reads:   572 MB in  2.00 seconds = 285.92 MB/sec, Timing buffered disk reads:  100 MB in  3.02 seconds =  33.16 MB/sec
[19:54] <fabio_> old laptop
[19:54] <ionte> fabio_: yep, i get about 3500 MB/sec on cached reads
[19:54] <fabio_> i can transfer @10 Mb/sec
[19:54] <ionte> using nautilus?
[19:54] <fabio_> i wish  i had a better hd
[19:55] <fabio_> using dolphin
[19:55] <claptrap> Dolphin >>>>> Nautilus
[19:55] <ionte> funny thing, it's faster to copy files on the same HD than between HD:s
[19:56] <ionte> dolphin = KDE's nautilus?
[19:56] <Bittarman> ionte, thats because the file is not actually copied usually in that case
[19:57] <fabio_> ionte: kde konquerora replacement
[19:57] <Bittarman> the file is simply allocated elsewhere
[19:57] <ionte> Bittarman: if it's 4.4G it probably is
[19:57] <ionte> Bittarman: i'm copying, not moving.
[19:57] <Bittarman> oh, copying.. sry
[19:57] <Bittarman> its been a long day!
[19:58] <claptrap> fabio_: So no idea what I can do? :( I can't get into my Ubuntu at all.
[19:58] <fabio_> claptrap: sorry i din't know u had a problem
[19:58] <claptrap> fabio_: Oh. I can't login.
[19:58] <fabio_> no lucid there?
[19:59] <claptrap> fabio_: It keeps looping.
[19:59] <fabio_> about gdm?
[19:59] <fabio_> Or X crashing?
[20:00] <claptrap> fabio_: Not sure. I type in my password, it goes black then comes back to login.
[20:00] <fabio_> claptrap: your talking about the gdm login?
[20:01] <ivze> Good day! I am trying to install ath_pci from source. Module is loaded, but no network interfaces appear. Am I doing anything wrong?
[20:01] <claptrap> fabio_: I guess? The login that comes after bootsplash.
[20:01] <ivze> (this used to work in 9.10)
[20:01] <ionte> hm, i'm now copying files between HD:s using the midnight commander (console app), and i get somewhat faster rates, but still about 5 MB/s .. way too slow ..
[20:02] <fabio_> claptrap: you can start your ubuntu in recovery mode
[20:03] <fabio_> when  you there you can get kde or just type startx (see what happens next)
[20:04] <fabio_> it has to do with gnome session or X session, but i think it's a gnome issue
[20:04] <claptrap> startx gives me a fatal server error: server is already active for display 0
[20:04] <claptrap> I'ma try reinstalling gnome
[20:04] <fabio_> claptrap: kill the X server
[20:04] <fabio_> stop gdm and try again
[20:05] <claptrap> How I do that/
[20:05] <fabio_> sudo /etc/init.d gdm stop
[20:06] <yofel> actually with upstart you should use 'sudo service gdm stop'
[20:06] <claptrap> . /etc/init.d: command not found
[20:06] <yofel>  /etc/init.d/gdm ;)
[20:06] <claptrap> Alright, sudo service gdm stop got me "gdm stop/waiting"
[20:06] <claptrap> Right thing to see?
[20:07] <claptrap> Ok, I'm seeing... stuff...
[20:08] <claptrap> I had a blue-ish background with some kind of splash screen that I've never seen before
[20:08] <claptrap> Now I have a mouse cursor
[20:08] <claptrap> And nothing else
[20:08] <claptrap> Alt-f2 and things are working, though not in any forms I've ever seeb,
[20:08] <claptrap> seen*
[20:09] <ionte> another problem which i've had since 9.10: grub is very slow to boot. with the new release it's quite funny as the time to boot grub is longer than the time to boot into desktop. :)
[20:09] <fabio_> i'm back,
[20:09] <fabio_> yofel: u are right
[20:09] <fabio_> claptrap: what background?
[20:09] <ionte> grub1 was much faster (instant)
[20:09] <claptrap> fabio_: Black now
[20:10] <fabio_> where are you now?
[20:10] <claptrap> Totally black screen with a cursor
[20:11] <fabio_> ionte: because you got a hell of pc
[20:11] <fabio_> grub is slow, but ubuntu loading is slower
[20:11] <bullgard> [Ubuntu 9.10] Update Manager shows: "Release upgrade > Show new distribution releases > Normal releases." How can I upgrade to Ubuntu 10.04 Beta?
[20:12] <yofel> bullgard: run 'update-manager -d' it should show lucid then
[20:12] <yofel> (with sudo/gksu)
[20:13] <claptrap> fabio_: So where do I go from here? x.x
[20:13] <fabio_> claptrap: where are you
[20:13] <claptrap> Totally black screen with a cursor.
[20:13] <fabio_> do you some gnome stuff there
[20:14] <claptrap> No.
[20:14] <claptrap> I got one error message about my soundcard (like always)
[20:14] <claptrap> And alt-f2 brings up a little command thingy at the top
[20:14] <claptrap> Doesn't look like gnome at all
[20:14] <fabio_> can you run nautilus?
[20:15] <claptrap> Yes.
[20:15] <fabio_> so the graphic card is ok?
[20:15] <fabio_> still no background?
[20:15] <claptrap> Seems so, and still no bg.
[20:16] <claptrap> It ran Dolphin, btw
[20:16] <claptrap> Not Nautilus. :p
[20:16] <fabio_> try with nautilus
[20:16] <claptrap> I typed nautilus and got Dolphin
[20:16] <claptrap> lool
[20:16] <claptrap> Prolly cause I replaced Nautilis as default?
[20:16] <ubuntujenkins> Does anyone know how to change the live cd user name? I would like to build a custom lucid cd
[20:17] <fabio_> nautilus is responsible of the bacgound
[20:17] <claptrap> Oh lol
[20:17] <fabio_> maybe there is something wrong with te gnome session
[20:17] <claptrap> Well
[20:17] <claptrap> I noticed that the login screen wasn't showing ANYTHING in sessions
[20:17] <fabio_> X is running, gdm can't start a gnome session
[20:18] <fabio_> but ' can't help with gnome or anything
[20:18] <fabio_> start gnome-panel...
[20:19] <ZykoticK9> claptrap, is this a fresh beta1 install?
[20:19] <claptrap> No. Upgraded from Karmic.
[20:19] <claptrap> Alt-f2 isn't doing anything now.
[20:19] <fabio_> claptrap: there missing packages there
[20:19] <blekos> i read that will be support for iphone. Which program should I use?
[20:20] <fabio_> see later
[20:20] <Saviq> guys, trying to get 10.4 onto a level 1 mdraid, having trouble installing grub
[20:20] <claptrap> ... ._.
[20:20] <claptrap> Oooook, so he just kinda left me hanging here. D:
[20:20] <Saviq> grub-probe throws "no mapping exists for `md0'."
[20:20] <bullgard> yofel: Thank you very much for your help. But the prefix "gksu" does not work. Only sudo worked.
[20:20] <yofel> claptrap: when did you last install updates?
[20:21] <abe3k> bullgard, gksudo ?
[20:21] <claptrap> Right before this happened
[20:22] <claptrap> I did a "Mark All Upgrades" in synaptic, rebooted and then this started.
[20:23] <claptrap> yofel: Any thoughts? ._.
[20:24] <yofel> hm, we did have an error with gnome-panel and nautilus but that's supposed to be fixed (see topic)
[20:25] <kklimonda> claptrap: what version of gnome-panel do you have?
[20:25] <claptrap> No idea.
[20:26] <kklimonda> can you check? do apt-cache policy gnome-panel
[20:26] <claptrap> Sure, let me get back to a terminal~
[20:27] <claptrap> 1:2.29.92.1-0ubuntu3
[20:29] <claptrap> Should I try an apt-get upgrade? Or... ? x.x
[20:29] <abe3k> what problem is claptrap having ?
[20:30] <bullgard> abe3k: I cannot tell you if this works. I already started dist-upgrading.
[20:31] <claptrap> abe3k: I did a "Mark All Upgrades" and rebooted, and I'm stuck in a login loop.
[20:31] <abe3k> bullgard, good luck with that :)
[20:31] <bullgard> abe3k: Thank you. :-)
[20:32] <abe3k> claptrap, as if you type your name and password and you get back to the login screen ?
[20:32] <claptrap> abe3k: Yes.
[20:33] <abe3k> claptrap, this happens on all sessions ?
[20:34] <claptrap> abe3k: My Sessions menu doesn't have anything listed. It's grayed out.
[20:35] <abe3k> claptrap, what happens if you login from the tty ?
[20:35] <claptrap> abe3k: Logs in fine.
[20:35] <abe3k> claptrap, all your files are there ?
[20:35] <claptrap> abe3k: Seem to be, yes.
[20:36] <duanedesign> waltercool: I found out a little more about your <local host> issue you had with Ubuntu One
[20:37] <waltercool> duanedesign, oh, good memory... what was the problem?
[20:38] <claptrap> abe3k: Any ideas? x.x
[20:38] <abe3k> claptrap, I'm trying to figure it out I had a problem almost similar to this once a while ago
[20:38] <claptrap> abe3k: kk!
[20:39] <abe3k> claptrap, you don't have any other users you can login to ?
[20:39] <duanedesign> waltercool: you removed all the computers but the token was still present locally in the keyring
[20:39] <KB1JWQ> Well, that's an interesting report from my host based intrusion detection system...
[20:39] <KB1JWQ> Trojaned version of file '/bin/login' detected. Signature used:
[20:39] <KB1JWQ> 'bash|elite|SucKIT|xlogin|vejeta|porcao|lets_log|sukasuk' (Generic).
[20:39] <KB1JWQ> Claims the same about su.
[20:40] <KB1JWQ> AH, and it's a known issue.
[20:40] <waltercool> duanedesign, so, is a minor bug?
[20:41] <duanedesign> waltercool: the <local machine> entry went away? You have just your machines there that are supposed to be there?
[20:42] <waltercool> duanedesign, i fixed with u1sync...
[20:42] <waltercool> duanedesign, but idk another solution
[20:42] <abe3k> claptrap, I'm not sure if this will work but try the following from the tty, export DISPAY=:0.0 then sudo -u gdm gdmsetup and then goto your tty7
[20:43] <abe3k> its DISPLAY not DISPAY***
[20:43] <duanedesign> waltercool: i was just making sure you were good to go. The devs said you could go to Applications > Accessories > Passwords and Encryption and delete the Token and then opening Ubuntu One should prompt to add computer
[20:44] <duanedesign> waltercool: i think we got there just a little different route :)
[20:44] <claptrap> abe3k, Alright, doing that. Looks like it's throwing up errors, but it appears to still be running.
[20:46] <JoshuaL> is it wise to install prelink in lucid?
[20:46] <waltercool> duanedesign, oh! Ubuntuone token... great
[20:46] <JoshuaL> as in; will it give a performance boost?
[20:46] <waltercool> i see that
[20:46] <claptrap> abe3k: It looks like it's just sitting there? .-.
[20:47] <abe3k> claptrap, the setup dialog didn't appear in tty7 ?
[20:47] <duanedesign> waltercool: great. Wanted to pass along any info i foound out. It was handy I had seen the problem before when it cam up again today
[20:48] <A71KR117> Is Lucid Beta 1 any faster?
[20:48] <BluesKaj> faster than ?
[20:48] <claptrap> abe3k: gdmsetup threw up WARNINGS and DEBUGS and now is just sitting there blinking at me.
[20:48] <BluesKaj> !fast
[20:48] <A71KR117> the Karmic boot time? I have a 8 sec boot!
[20:49] <JoshuaL> A71KR117, SSD?
[20:49] <A71KR117> Nope.
[20:49] <JoshuaL> A71KR117, what kind of HD do you have?
[20:50] <A71KR117> a Segate Barracuda 7200 RPM 250GB
[20:50] <BluesKaj> A71KR117, I guess you'd better not instsll lucid. My bot time is only 15 secs from grub
[20:50] <abe3k> claptrap, and what about tty7 ? can you change the settings from there or not ?
[20:50] <BluesKaj> err boot time
[20:50] <A71KR117> kay, thanks
[20:50] <waltercool> duanedesign, well... how reproduce the bug... remove your ubuntuone account?
[20:50] <claptrap> abe3k: Should I reboot out of this, then?
[20:50] <JoshuaL> A71KR117, i wonder how i can reach 8 seconds boot..
[20:51] <claptrap> abe3k: To try what you're asking? I can't do anything atm
[20:51] <A71KR117> is there any way to customize the GDM in lucid?
[20:51] <abe3k> claptrap, if you're at tty1 then just do a ctrl+c
[20:51] <BluesKaj> A71KR117, you can't be serious ...15 secs usn't fast enough from grub?
[20:51] <claptrap> abe3k: Ah, ok. Then what? Type "tty7?"
[20:52] <anichols> It seems whatever is halting me from installing Lucid's beta is more than just +1 issues.  I tried Karmic a few hours back, with zero luck as well.  So there's a common element there that's going to keep me in Hardy for the forseeable future.  I'm guessing my hardware's crap.
[20:52] <abe3k> claptrap, no no, start it from tty1 then switch to tty7 while its still running
[20:52] <A71KR117> I installed GDM2Setup and I can customize it. Link here: http://bit.ly/a0nkeu
[20:52] <abe3k> claptrap, ctrl+alt+f7
[20:52] <claptrap> abe3k: Oh! ok, sec then
[20:52] <A71KR117> BluesKaj: Guess I'm lucky.
[20:53] <deanus> oo, I just noticed the new animation while wifi is connecting.
[20:54] <anichols> Anyone have any ideas what may be a part of Lucid and Karmic that is not a part of Hardy...so I don't have to walk up version by version...I could just find the most advanced one my laptop will tolerate?
[20:54] <claptrap> abe3k, Ok, I have a login screen settings, with everything greyed out. Unlock button not doing anything. Sorry for shortness and for nubness. )=
[20:54] <A71KR117> does anyone know if ambiance (the new theme) is available for karmic? dont want to upgrade. . . ;)
[20:55] <duanedesign> waltercool: if you remove all your devices from the ubuntuone-preferences
[20:55] <waltercool> yes
[20:55] <waltercool> duanedesign, yes
[20:56] <claptrap> abe3k: Guessing that's not what you wanted to hear? :p
[20:56] <A71KR117> Gotta go, must do my book report ;)!
[20:57] <abe3k> claptrap, hmmm, try creating a new user and see if you can login with that
[20:57] <claptrap> abe3k: Tried that one. No good.
[21:00] <abe3k> claptrap, do you by any chance have nvidia drivers installed ?
[21:00] <claptrap> abe3k: I do have an nvidia card, so yea.
[21:00] <abe3k> claptrap, I think it could be from that since xorg has changed in lucid
[21:01] <abe3k> claptrap, try downloading and installing lucid friendly nvidia drivers
[21:01] <claptrap> abe3k: I saw that Googling, but I didn't see any real solutions.
[21:01] <abe3k> claptrap, let me see if I can fetch a link for you
[21:01] <claptrap> abe3k: Alright. Can I do all that from a terminal?
[21:01] <abe3k> claptrap, yea
[21:02] <claptrap> abe3k: Awesome! Again, sorry if I'm being short. Been fighting with this for three hours now. )=
[21:02] <abe3k> claptrap, I know how you feel :)
[21:02] <basix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633 What is wrong with the designers?
[21:08] <vish> !currentissues | basix
[21:08] <deanus> ubuntu one just doesnt work, for me....
[21:09] <basix> vish: listenting to user feedback my ***. Look at Mark's post. It really enrages me when you piss off the target audience.
[21:09] <vish> *sigh*
[21:10] <vish> i'm having a weird problem , the system slows down and everything is slow to respond. the mouse has no lag though...
[21:10] <vish> oddly when i switch to a guest session and return , everything is normal
[21:10] <basix> vish: how many people complain about design decisions? Very few. When you make changes that directly affects an end user and when *he* complains, thats when you stop screwing around and listen to him.
[21:11] <sterz> hi
[21:11] <sterz>  i have lucid-partner repo enabled but still cannot install acroread?
[21:11] <vish> nothing in the logs or .xsession-errors .. where do i need to look to file a bug?
[21:11] <sterz> !ping
[21:11] <claptrap> abe3k: Any luck?
[21:11]  * sterz ?
[21:12] <abe3k> claptrap, did you install your earlier drivers manually or from the repositories ?
[21:12] <KB1JWQ> sterz: Why acroread specifically?
[21:12] <KB1JWQ> sterz: evince works wonders here.
[21:13] <orion_SuN> help for vlc !
[21:13] <claptrap> abe3k: Repos.
[21:13] <orion_SuN> !vlc
[21:13] <sterz> KB1JWQ, in some ebooks i cannot click on page references thats why
[21:13] <h00k> So, if I went to the website and de-authorized my computers because they kept asking me to reauthorize every so-often, now in Lucid I can't figure out where to make Ubuntu One reauthorize me.
[21:13]  * vish not interested in debating ;)
[21:14]  * TrueSongMedia doesn't think anyone asked you to?
[21:14] <vish> basix: if you have a complaint , do comment on the bug or the blog
[21:14] <vish> nothing is gonna change by debating here
[21:15] <TrueSongMedia> Although, I happen to agree that the left-side WM buttons is a stupid stupid move
[21:15] <sterz> TrueSongMedia, agreed 100%
[21:15] <sterz> !acroread
[21:16] <abe3k> claptrap, have a look at this http://www.ubunturoot.com/2009/12/how-to-fix-problems-with-xorg-and.html
[21:16] <basix> Its a very dramatic change to the way people fundamentally interact with the "Window". Sure newbies will not have an issue with it but for people who've been using computers for ages or even a little bit will find it very irritating.
[21:17] <claptrap> abe3k: If this works, do you accept donations? :)
[21:18] <abe3k> claptrap, lol lets hope this will fix it
[21:18] <claptrap> abe3k: Is this something that sbackup could've fixed?
[21:20] <TrueSongMedia> Very true, basix
[21:20] <TrueSongMedia> If this isn't fixed by release, I'm jumping to a different distro
[21:20] <orion_SuN> help me ! for vlc  >>>>Depends: vlc-nox but it is not going to be installed
[21:20] <orion_SuN>  Recommends: vlc-plugin-pulse but it is not going to be installed
[21:21] <h00k> Ubuntu One Music Store public beta is now open.
[21:21] <arand> TrueSongMedia: Mint?
[21:21] <TrueSongMedia> are you going through the software center or apt, orion_SuN ?
[21:21] <TrueSongMedia> Perhaps, arand
[21:22] <TrueSongMedia> The developers' arrogance is pushing me away anyway
[21:23] <orion_SuN> TrueSongMedia,  out of nowhere did not want to install :(((
[21:23] <inveratulo> TrueSongMedia: what's that?
[21:23] <arand> TrueSongMedia: That conflict is not really ubuntu-specific though, gnome springs to mind...
[21:23] <basix> TrueSongMedia: Its pointless to jump to a different distro. I think its more important that whoever makes such decisions, should allow for "switching back" to the original way. This adds bloat but its a necessary evil. Gnome developers are notorious when it comes to making decisions for users without actually listening to what the user wants. This decision is kinda like that. It pisses off most of your users, why the
[21:23] <basix>  heck would you want to do that?!
[21:24] <TrueSongMedia> out of nowhere VLC didn't want to install? Are you intending to install VLC, orion_SuN ?
[21:24] <claptrap> abe3k: couldn't find package nvidia-glx-195
[21:24] <TrueSongMedia> arand, it's not a GNOME issue. It's a setting made in Ubuntu by the Ubuntu art team
[21:25] <arand> TrueSongMedia: This single thing, yes, I was speaking in general terms.
[21:25] <claptrap> abe3k: Should this work? http://www.webupd8.org/2009/08/how-to-install-nvidia-190xx-drivers-in.html
[21:26] <ZykoticK9> h00k, music store looks pretty cool, any idea how to change the price from pounds to dollars?
[21:26] <TrueSongMedia> orion_SuN, if nothing else, try running "sudo apt-get install (package name)" to install the packages it's missing
[21:26] <h00k> ZykoticK9: no idea, I haven't even seen it yet, still reading :D
[21:26] <MTughan> I just installed 10.04b1 on my laptop which already has F12, and I want to dual-boot it. I've partitioned and installed it, but I didn't install GRUB because I wanted to edit the existing GRUB from Fedora. However, I think it'd be preferable now to install GRUB to the /boot I created and chainloader that.
[21:26] <TrueSongMedia> Gotcha, arand :)
[21:26] <MTughan> Is there a way I can install GRUB to /boot after installation?
[21:27] <arand> MTughan: "man grub-install"
[21:27] <abe3k_> claptrap, sorry my router started to act out on me, so how is it going ?
[21:27] <MTughan> arand: Okay, thanks. Now to figure out how to boot Ubuntu...
[21:27] <TrueSongMedia> basix, I agree that there needs to be a way to switch back. But since it's an Ubuntu dev setting, switching to a different distro solves the problem :) And part of my issue is with the Ubuntu team. Not listening to users is the first step toward a rapid decline.
[21:28] <claptrap> abe3k_: couldn't find package nvidia-glx-195
[21:28] <abe3k_> claptrap, did you add the ppa ?
[21:28] <basix> TrueSongMedia: Its one thing to be innovative and totally different being stupid :/
[21:28] <claptrap> abe3k_: Yea. Trying another guide for it.
[21:28] <TrueSongMedia> Make sure you have the extra software sources enabled in Software Sources
[21:28] <abe3k_> claptrap, kk
[21:28] <TrueSongMedia> Amen, basix
[21:29] <TrueSongMedia> I'm all for innovation, but this is a regression in usability
[21:29] <basix> TrueSongMedia: Its like the devs have not heard of muscle memory =)
[21:29] <TrueSongMedia> heh yeah
[21:30] <orion_SuN> TrueSongMedia,  now before the 9.10 am to 10.04 (after upgrade) and does not want to install vlc Get all ppa and still gives me error
[21:30] <TrueSongMedia> I mean heck, I'm a Mac user much of the time. I'm used to buttons on the left. I know what it should be like. I also use Windows often. Ubuntu is Ubuntu.
[21:30] <TrueSongMedia> It sounds like you have some broken packages / dependencies, orion_SuN
[21:30] <h00k> So, if I went to the website and de-authorized my computers because they kept asking me to reauthorize every so-often, now in Lucid I can't figure out where to make Ubuntu One reauthorize me.  Any ideas?
[21:30] <claptrap> abe3k_: Yeah, it can't find either of those packages. All the guides are giving me the same nonworking info.
[21:31] <TrueSongMedia> try this, orion_SuN: sudo apt-get update
[21:31] <basix> TrueSongMedia: same thing here. I use Mac at work, at home its either Windows or Linux(Ubuntu tbs). This breaks *everything*
[21:31] <TrueSongMedia> then sudo apt-get upgrade
[21:31] <TrueSongMedia> *orion_SuN ^
[21:31] <arand> TrueSongMedia: Hope for inclusion of patch in Bug #533758 ;)
[21:32] <TrueSongMedia> That would be good, arand :)
[21:32] <basix> orion_SuN: try apt-get -f update
[21:32] <TrueSongMedia> ^ orion_SuN That's better
[21:32] <abe3k_> I'm not sure if the latest nvidia deivers would work with lucid or not
[21:32] <TrueSongMedia> looks for broken stuffs
[21:32] <abe3k_> from nvidia.com
[21:32] <TrueSongMedia> worth a shot, isn't it?
[21:32] <TrueSongMedia> :)
[21:32] <basix> abe3k_: they're broken atm
[21:32] <TrueSongMedia> Ah
[21:33] <TrueSongMedia> Nevermind then
[21:33] <Plagman_> what's broken about them?
[21:33] <Plagman_> the latest driver package should work fine with lucid
[21:33] <basix> Plagman_: Read the Beta 1 release notes.
[21:33] <h00k> Be careful that you're not using the nVidia card that is hurting cards.
[21:33] <h00k> I am using Nouveau and loving it.
[21:34] <TrueSongMedia> hurting cards, h00k ?
[21:34] <claptrap> abe3k_: Uuuuuugh lol
[21:34] <abe3k_> claptrap, hang on
[21:34] <h00k> TrueSongMedia: yes, one of nvidia's drivers was reported to possibly damage/break cards
[21:34] <TrueSongMedia> Oh my.
[21:34] <TrueSongMedia> One for Linux or in general?
[21:34] <basix> Plagman_: I think its just to do with the installer. Not the actual drivers. Not sure though :) But its issue #1 in known issues for beta 1
[21:34] <h00k> TrueSongMedia: in general.
[21:34] <h00k> http://www.pcworld.com/article/191813/nvidia_warns_of_graphics_drivers_with_overheating_risk.html
[21:34] <TrueSongMedia> Wow
[21:35] <abe3k_> overheating was fixed in 195.36.15
[21:35] <basix> h00k: that issue was specifically wrt to Windows drivers.
[21:35] <h00k> basix: orly
[21:35] <Plagman_> works fine here
[21:35] <ZykoticK9> h00k, i was told yesterday that the issue is fixed in most recent 195 driver (if there ever was a linux issue)
[21:35] <TrueSongMedia> Hm. I'd better check on that one. I think I have that version installed in Windows 7
[21:35] <TrueSongMedia> on my Mac
[21:35] <orion_SuN> TrueSongMedia, basix >> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[21:35] <orion_SuN>   vlc: Depends: vlc-nox (= 1.1.0+svn20100322-git8b61de2~webupd8~karmic2) but it is not going to be installed
[21:35] <orion_SuN>        Recommends: vlc-plugin-pulse (= 1.1.0+svn20100322-git8b61de2~webupd8~karmic2) but it is not going to be installed
[21:35] <orion_SuN> E: Broken packages
[21:35] <TrueSongMedia> Hm
[21:35] <basix> ugh.
[21:36] <h00k> ah, alright
[21:36] <orion_SuN> webupd8 ?!?!?!
[21:36] <basix> orion_SuN: please use pastebin next time..
[21:36] <TrueSongMedia> Did you use update and upgrade, orion_SuN ?
[21:36] <TrueSongMedia> (and yes please use pastebin :) )
[21:36] <h00k> orion_SuN: sudo aptitude update; sudo aptitude safe-upgrade;
[21:36] <h00k> aptitude contains more logic than apt-get
[21:37] <TrueSongMedia> Good call, h00k
[21:37] <claptrap> abe3k_: I feel I should mention I'm running 64 bit. lol.
[21:37] <abe3k_> claptrap, you're using 32 or 64 ?
[21:37] <abe3k_> claptrap, lol
[21:38] <abe3k_> claptrap, ok
[21:38] <claptrap> abe3k_: Timinggggggg
[21:38] <MikeChelen1> how can the chat program (empathy) be shut down?
[21:38] <TrueSongMedia> btw, here's the pastebin link, orion_SuN
[21:38] <TrueSongMedia> pastebin.ubuntu.com
[21:39] <TrueSongMedia> oops: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com
[21:39] <TrueSongMedia> There
[21:39] <BUGabundo> evening friends and not so much
[21:39] <prayii> so running aptitude update is different than apt-get update?
[21:39] <bjsnider> orion_SuN, you're trying to install a karmic build of vlc built against karmic packages on lucid. that will not work
[21:40] <abe3k_> claptrap,type in this command in tty1:   wget http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/195.36.15/NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-195.36.15-pkg2.run
[21:40] <bjsnider> no one should be trying to install the nvidia-installer on lucid
[21:40] <h00k> on lucid, the release notes state the drivers from the nvidia site will not work yet.
[21:41] <bjsnider> if you get it installed it will bork your system
[21:41] <bjsnider> nvidia-current has the 195.36.15 driver
[21:41] <BUGabundo> prayii: well not diferent
[21:41] <ZykoticK9> Fresh install from beta1 (Mythbuntu) cd, now fully updated - Nvidia 6150 (onboard) video fails to start X - tried with no xorg.conf as well as nvidia-settings xorg.conf = same result.  Nvidia-xorg, X log at http://pastebin.com/6f4CiBSj -- without xorg.conf at http://pastebin.com/0S5cA6ip
[21:41] <BUGabundo> both are frontends to APT db
[21:42] <claptrap> abe3k_: It's downloading somethingggggggg
[21:42] <BUGabundo> but aptitude does tend to handle depencies breakage better then apt-get prayii
[21:42] <orion_SuN> bjsnider, and how to fix this problem I want my vlc
[21:42] <bjsnider> orion_SuN, it's in the lucid archive i'm sure
[21:42] <bjsnider> !info vlc lucid
[21:42] <prayii> BUGabundo: i had no idea. thanx.
[21:43] <avar> Some_Person: Here's something for your PPA: In 9.10 the volume up/down notify and other notifies were lower on the screen so as to not go over the window buttons, now they're on top of them again. Make your PPA change that
[21:43] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, that's finished downloading.
[21:44] <abe3k_> claptrap, ok, type in this sudo apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -r` binutils pkg-config build-essential xserver-xorg-dev
[21:44] <h00k> claptrap: on lucid, the release notes state the drivers from the nvidia site will not work yet.
[21:44] <BUGabundo> prayii: and now you know :D
[21:44] <abe3k_> h00k, are you sure ? I've just read its xorg 1.7 compatible
[21:45] <vish> i'm having a weird problem ,the system slows down and everything is slow to react[random]. the mouse pointer has no lag though... earlier i used to SAK/logout of session and return to session and everything would be fine.. ..  now , i seem to have a workaround of sorts.. when i switch to a guest session and return , everything is normal and works fine... anyone heard of such a bug?
[21:45] <h00k> abe3k_: yes, I'm sure: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1#Known%20issues
[21:45] <claptrap> No don't ruin my hopes h00k damnitttttttttttt
[21:46]  * vish is just gonna blame everything on the latest drm :p
[21:46] <h00k> claptrap: it says it right there on the site. :p
[21:46] <claptrap> abe3k_: Well, that last command finished,
[21:47] <abe3k_> claptrap, ok now so a sudo service gdm stop
[21:47] <claptrap> abe3k_: k, did
[21:47] <abe3k_> claptrap, sudo sh NVIDIA-   then press tab for it to complete the line and press enter
[21:47] <rros> I'm having problems with the combination of php5, php-apc and phpmyadmin. In my syslog I get the following errors "ALERT - canary mismatch on efree()"
[21:48] <claptrap> Alright
[21:48] <claptrap> I hit ok on the next screen anddddd
[21:48] <claptrap> "The distribution-provided pre-install script failed! Continue installation anyway?"
[21:49] <claptrap> abe3k_: Yes/no?
[21:49] <bjsnider> no
[21:51] <orion_SuN> bjsnider, TrueSongMedia   fixed is ppa "webupd8" is the culprit thanks ... :)))
[21:51] <TrueSongMedia> Ahhhhhh haha
[21:51] <TrueSongMedia> Well there you have it
[21:51] <TrueSongMedia> ^_^
[21:51] <claptrap> abe3k_: Did you die againnnn?
[21:52] <TrueSongMedia> Glad you fixed orion_SuN
[21:52] <MTughan> arand: Okay, I got Ubuntu booted now, and am looking at the man page for grub-install. It says it installs to /boot/grub of the given partition though, and I just want it to install to /grub, as this partition is being mounted at /boot. Is that what it'll do, or am I missing something?
[21:52] <abe3k_> claptrap, I just want to make sure if it is related to the driver or the packaging
[21:52] <jemark> i justed wanted to install centos in a virtual machine in text mode, cpu usage in virtual machine is about 100% and then after a while 60%, is that normal?
[21:53] <claptrap> abe3k_ Kay!
[21:53] <abe3k_> claptrap, let us goto #nvidia and see what they can provide there
[21:53] <jemark> virtual machine = virtualbox by the way...
[21:54] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, I'm in there.
[21:54] <arand> MTughan: So you have the relevant /boot mounted atm?
[21:55] <MTughan> arand: Should be, I'll verify.
[21:55] <MTughan> Yep.
[21:55] <arand> MTughan: so if you go to /boot/grub that's the place you plan to install to?
[21:55] <orion_SuN> TrueSongMedia, Another problem I have with which a Player Signature is placed online tv wmv format
[21:56] <MTughan> arand: That's correct.
[21:56] <basix> MTughan: depends. Tell us your system's config. What hypervisor are you using?
[21:56] <MTughan> basix: Hypervisor? Isn't that related to VMs?
[21:56] <basix> ^^ sorry, i meant jemark
[21:56] <dupondje> czr: so it just works ? :)
[21:57] <arand> MTughan: In that case just runninng the install should put it there, by default it uses "/"  unless you specify --root-directory
[21:57] <claptrap> abe3k_: I guess I'll just go for it? v.v
[21:58] <TrueSongMedia> orion_SuN, with VLC?
[21:58] <abe3k_> claptrap, I don't know wait a moment
[21:58] <claptrap> abe3k_: Mmk.
[21:59] <MTughan> arand: Perfect. Just had the machine crash, although I know it's a hardware issue somewhere because it affects Fedora too.
[21:59] <arand> MTughan: How pleasant.
[21:59] <MTughan> arand: Although trying to run grub-install without any arguments makes it ask for an install_device.
[22:00] <jemark> basix, single core laptop centrino 1.7Ghz, 1Gb RAM, ATI 9700 Mobility
[22:00] <alkisg> Is Intel 82852/855GM ok with xorg in Lucid? Or I'd better keep running Karmic?
[22:00] <arand> MTughan: Yea you need to specify a device for setting up the mbr/vbr.
[22:01] <MTughan> arand: So do I give it the partition for /boot then?
[22:01] <MTughan> I want to leave the MBR as it is right now.
[22:01] <basix> jemark: hm. i would suggest using Xen on sucha a hardware as it can work in para-virtualized mode.
[22:02] <jemark> basix, i see
[22:02] <basix> jemark: I would also think your processor doesn't have VMX
[22:02] <jemark> basix, probably not
[22:02] <basix> jemark: so all in all it is not entirely suitable for running VMs but not entirely unsuitable either.
[22:03] <arand> MTughan: Give it a partition as the argument, or if you care about the vbr of partitions as well, I don't know how to tell is not to install an mbr (there should be a way though ..)
[22:03] <NinoScript> what happens in #ubuntu+2?
[22:04] <jemark> basix, better would be the duo core 2 1.6Ghz laptop, 1 Gb RAM, intel x3100 video that I own
[22:04] <abe3k_> claptrap, install them again just to make sure
[22:04] <abe3k_> claptrap, do a sudo sevice gdm stop
[22:04] <arand> MTughan: It /j #grub
[22:04] <abe3k_> claptrap, then do the sudo sh NVIDIA- blabla
[22:04] <basix> jemark: yep. btw why do you want to use CentOS inside teh VM?
[22:04] <MTughan> arand: Well, I tried giving it a partition. It said "/usr/sbin/grub-setup: warn: Attempting to install GRUB to a partition instead of the MBR.  This is a BAD idea.." Also said embedding is not possible, and I needed to use blocklists.
[22:04] <MTughan> arand: Ah, thanks.
[22:05] <arand> MTughan: sorry, ignore
[22:05] <MTughan> Oh, heh.
[22:05] <MTughan> Well, I can watch anyway.
[22:05] <jemark> basix, just to play with the commands and compare with debian
[22:05] <arand> MTughan: Well, they likely know more, but it is a rather unpopulated channel though
[22:06] <basix> jemark: ah.
[22:06] <MTughan> arand: I've seen worse.
[22:06] <arand> MTughan: Yea, those messages are as it should be when installing to vbr
[22:06] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, I'ma run through the questions with you.
[22:07] <claptrap> abe3k_: Install NVIDIA's 32-bit compatibility OpenGL libraries?
[22:07] <abe3k_> claptrap, yes
[22:08] <jemark> basix, i would do it on the other newer laptop then...
[22:08] <claptrap> abe3k_: Automatically update X configuration files?
[22:08] <abe3k_> claptrap, yes
[22:08] <claptrap> abe3k_ k, it's complete.
[22:08] <basix> jemark: yeah and you can use VirtualBox in that case.
[22:09] <MTughan> arand: So I do want to tell it to use blocklists?
[22:09] <abe3k_> claptrap, do a sudo serivice gdm start
[22:09] <arand> MTughan: Does it ask for confirmation?
[22:09] <jemark> basix, i better make multiboot test laptop of this older laptop later. thanks for the advise
[22:09] <MTughan> arand: No, it quits and asks me to use --force if I want blocklists.
[22:10] <claptrap> abe3k_: Nonblinking little cursor. Looks like it locked up.
[22:10] <abe3k_> claptrap, switch to tty7
[22:10] <arand> MTughan: Ah right, that *should* be ok (*should* as in *playing with partitions should be fine*)
[22:11] <MTughan> Heh.
[22:11] <claptrap> abe3k_: Can't.
[22:12] <MTughan> arand: Maybe there's a simpler way then... Fedora 12 uses GRUB legacy. Is there a way that Ubuntu can append onto the menu by making its own menu.lst?
[22:13] <abe3k_> claptrap, can't or you get a blank screen ?
[22:13] <claptrap> abe3k_: Nothing happens. Keyboard isn't responding at all, to be honest. No numlock or anything.
[22:13] <claptrap> Should I try once more?
[22:14] <arand> MTughan: simply updating grub in fedora ~# update-grub   should pick up ubuntu's kernels and append them to the current grub menu.
[22:14] <abe3k_> claptrap, if it's still not responding try a reboot
[22:14] <arand> MTughan: If things work as they should
[22:14] <MTughan> arand: Even with GRUB Legacy? I thought that was just with GRUB 2.
[22:14] <arand> MTughan: Hmm, at least I think so...
[22:15] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, rebooted.
[22:16] <abe3k_> claptrap, loop is still there ?
[22:16] <claptrap> abe3k_: Yep.
[22:16] <NinoScript> is upgrading from karmic the same as installing lucid from the disk?
[22:18] <devurandom> Hi again!
[22:18] <devurandom> How do I change the startup splash screen? That violet thing looks like utter crap...
[22:19] <devurandom> Next think I'll buy is a pink netbook with Swarowskys on it...</irony>
[22:19] <abe3k_> claptrap, what does "startx" give you in tty1 ?
[22:20] <orbisvicis> well, so the 10.04 livecd could not mount /dev/loop0
[22:20] <orbisvicis>  - the squashfs filesystem. any ideas ?
[22:21] <claptrap> abe3k_: Sec, having some keyboard issues.
[22:22] <claptrap> abe3k_: Same as before. Server is already active blabla
[22:24] <abe3k_> claptrap, are you able to login with previous kernels ?
[22:24] <claptrap> abe3k_: ?
[22:24] <abe3k_> claptrap, from the geub menu when you start booting, when you select an earlier kernel
[22:25] <claptrap> abe3k_: I didn't know you could do that.
[22:26] <claptrap> abe3k_: Oooh, is that what the multiple Linux listings sre?
[22:26] <claptrap> are**
[22:26] <bullgard> I just finished dist-upgrading to Ubuntu 10.04 Beta. The Desktop background does not cover the upper  and lower 12% of the screen. Is this a known error?
[22:27] <claptrap> abe3k_: No, still couldn't get in.
[22:29] <abe3k_> claptrap, try sudo ddpkg-reconfigure gdm
[22:29] <abe3k_> claptrap, try sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm
[22:31] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, did that.
[22:31] <claptrap> abe3k_: Back to terminal
[22:31] <abe3k_> claptrap, try relogging in tty7
[22:32] <claptrap> abe3k_: Looped.
[22:33] <abe3k_> claptrap, try doing a sudo nano /etc/gdm/custom.conf
[22:33] <claptrap> abe3k_: Ok, got what looks like an old DOS text editor
[22:34] <abe3k_> claptrap, is there anything in the file ?
[22:34] <claptrap> abe3k_: Nay.
[22:34] <abe3k_> claptrap, heres what mine looks like http://pastebin.com/tcfcdYQN
[22:35] <abe3k_> claptrap, change my name to your user
[22:35] <thieusoai> I can't connect to Yahoo or AIM on Empathy  --- anyone else experiences the same thing ?
[22:36] <claptrap> abe3k_: ALright, did that.
[22:37] <abe3k_> claptrap, ctrl+X then make sure the file is actually /etc/gdm/custom.conf
[22:37] <abe3k_> claptrap, and save it to that
[22:38] <claptrap> abe3k_: Done.
[22:38] <abe3k_> claptrap, sudo service gdm restart
[22:38] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, took me to the login screen.
[22:39] <abe3k_> claptrap, login
[22:39] <claptrap> abe3k_: Looped.
[22:40] <abe3k_> claptrap, try changing all the "false" parts in the custom.conf file to "true"
[22:40] <Some_Person> Is the ubuntu one music store open yet (outside of rhythmbox)?
[22:41] <abe3k_> claptrap, without the "brackets
[22:41] <claptrap> abe3k_: And service restart again?
[22:41] <abe3k_> claptrap, yes
[22:42] <nightsjammies> has anyone installed vbox yet?
[22:42] <abe3k_> nightsjammies, I did
[22:42] <nightsjammies> do you have usb support?
[22:43] <claptrap> abe3k_: Uh. Now I'm at the login screen, and... the screen is split up and looks like it's going aroudn the desktop. o_o
[22:43] <claptrap> abe3k_: And it's still looping. lol.
[22:43] <ZykoticK9> nightsjammies, to get USB in VBox i had to do http://sites.google.com/site/alucidfs/how-i-do/virtualbox#TOC-USB-support-with-Lucid
[22:43] <nightsjammies> abe3k_: actually, ...
[22:44] <abe3k_> nightsjammies, I haven't enabled it yet buddy
[22:44] <nightsjammies> awesome...
[22:44] <nightsjammies> have you installed anything through it yet?
[22:44] <abe3k_> nightsjammies, I have an older image I used to test it
[22:45] <abe3k_> claptrap, I didn't get the part about the splitting
[22:45] <claptrap> abe3k_: Ye, it's hard to explain
[22:45] <nightsjammies> of?
[22:45] <abe3k_> nightsjammies, windows xp
[22:45] <claptrap> abe3k_: Oh, it's wrapping around, there's the term.
[22:45] <nightsjammies> ah, okay...
[22:46] <nightsjammies> That's what I want to do for itunes support
[22:46] <claptrap> abe3k_: What should be the left border is in the middle of my screen now..
[22:46] <rothspec_> This is hard to describe--under 10.04, when I shut down a VM under vmware workstation 7, the host video mode goes "invalid" and the monitor says 'invalid timing' and stops displaying anything.
[22:46] <claptrap> abe3k_: Would it be easier to just do a fresh install? >>
[22:46] <bullgard> I just finished dist-upgrading to Ubuntu 10.04 Beta. The Desktop background does not cover the upper  and lower 12% of the screen. Is this a known error?
[22:47] <abe3k_> claptrap, I'm not sure, depending on how much you have to backup
[22:47] <claptrap> abe3k_: Not a lot, but uh... there's not a net install anywhere for 10.04, is there?
[22:47] <Some_Person> Why does the ubuntu one music store sell songs as mp3s, not a free format?
[22:47] <abe3k_> nightsjammies, I think if you follow what ZykoticK9 said you'll be able to enable the usb
[22:47] <claptrap> abe3k_: I don't have a CD/DVD drive or large USB stick atm.
[22:48] <claptrap> abe3k_: And I don't think I want to do the 9.10 -> 10.04 route again
[22:48] <h00k> Is anyone aware how to re-authenticate my Lucid install with Ubuntu One?
[22:48] <abe3k_> claptrap, I've had a fresh install of it on my eeepc, my desktop is still on  jaunty
[22:48] <abe3k_> claptrap, sorry karmic
[22:48] <claptrap> abe3k_: How'd you do it?
[22:49] <abe3k_> claptrap, flash memory
[22:49] <claptrap> abe3k_: So a USB stick? /=
[22:49] <abe3k_> claptrap, yeap
[22:49] <claptrap> abe3k_: Yea, don't have one bigger than 128 MB.
[22:49] <abe3k_> claptrap, I think I've seen something about a network installation
[22:49] <abe3k_> claptrap, but I never tested it though
[22:49] <nightsjammies> Zy who?
[22:50] <nightsjammies> Ah, nm. I'm sorry. I wasn't paying enough attention, apparently.
[22:51] <abe3k_> claptrap, it would be a shame to give up though :P
[22:51] <claptrap> abe3k_: Got more ideas? If you're willing to keep going, I am. loll.
[22:51] <abe3k_> claptrap, why not!!!1 shift one
[22:52] <claptrap> abe3k_: Any more logs or anything we should be looking at?
[22:52] <abe3k_> claptrap, right now I think it is a gnome problem but I'm not sure
[22:52] <DarkTao> evening
[22:52] <claptrap> abe3k_: Me, too. I was gonna try reinstalling gnome-desktop-environment earlier.
[22:53] <DarkTao> anyone elses 10.04 taking AGES to load gnome-panels?
[22:53] <nightsjammies> okay, next question..anyone else managed to get video working in rhythmbox?
[22:54] <abe3k_> claptrap, you still have that new user you've created ?
[22:55] <ZykoticK9> DarkTao, do you have bootchart installed?  I think it was after installing it that gnome-panels started to take longer to start at boot
[22:55] <DarkTao> ZykoticK9, one sec, i'll check
[22:55] <claptrap> abe3k_: Sure do
[22:55] <h00k> Is anyone aware how to re-authenticate my Lucid install with Ubuntu One?
[22:56] <abe3k_> claptrap, cd to that user's home directory
[22:56] <DarkTao> ZykoticK9, bootchart isnt installed
[22:57] <Ian_Corne> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store/+bug/544617 can anyone confirm?
[22:57] <ZykoticK9> DarkTao, that probably isn't even the cause then, but personally it didn't use to take gnome-panels so long to start and now it does...  I'll pay attention if anyone else makes any suggestions to you and see if it can apply to me as well.  Good luck man.
[22:57] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, O
[22:57] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, I'm there.
[22:57] <ZykoticK9> Ian_Corne, i see the same thing
[22:57] <Ian_Corne> Ok
[22:58] <ZykoticK9> Ian_Corne, i just "me too" on your bug
[22:58] <holstein> hi all..
[22:59] <Ian_Corne> ok ZykoticK9
[22:59] <holstein> i have a crash detected icon
[22:59] <DarkTao> ZykoticK9, rather strange problem to be honest, fresh install of Alpha 2 was fine, I think it was introduced in alpha 3+
[22:59] <holstein> comes up and says 'nautilus has crashed'
[22:59] <holstein> the reporting fails though
[23:00] <holstein> this sound familiar to anyone?
[23:00] <ZykoticK9> DarkTao, that would be a similar time line for my noticing the problem as well
[23:00] <DarkTao> holstein, is there also a crash with plymouthd?
[23:00] <holstein> no
[23:01] <holstein> i forget the other one that come up too
[23:01] <DarkTao> i receive a nautilus crash after the reporter tells me plymouthd crashed
[23:01] <holstein> but im able to report it
[23:01] <infecto> hello, want to sync my ubuntu today
[23:01] <DarkTao> i assume thats because i'm on nvidia hardware
[23:01] <infecto> some problems? :)
[23:01] <h00k> Is anyone aware how to re-authenticate my Lucid install with Ubuntu One?
[23:01] <abe3k_> claptrap, try renaming these directories .gconf .gconfd .config .gnome2 to something like .gconf_2 ... etc   use the mv command : mv .gconf .gconf_2 ...
[23:03] <ZykoticK9> h00k, does System / Preferences / Ubuntu One - Devices tab help you out?
[23:03] <claptrap> abe3k_: No such file/dir for .gconf.
[23:03] <arand> h00k: if not here, maybe #ubuntuone
[23:04] <abe3k_> claptrap, are you in the user home ? /home/somename/ ?
[23:04] <claptrap> abe3k_: Yea
[23:04] <h00k> ZykoticK9: yeah, that doesn't exist here
[23:04] <abe3k_> claptrap, try an ls .g*
[23:05] <ZykoticK9> h00k, are you using Lucid?
[23:05] <h00k> ZykoticK9: yes
[23:05] <h00k> ZykoticK9: (this is the Lucid support channel ;))
[23:05] <claptrap> abe3k_: None.
[23:05] <ZykoticK9> h00k, are you using Gnome?
[23:05] <h00k> ZykoticK9: yes
[23:05] <claptrap> abe3k_: I got .config
[23:05] <abe3k_> claptrap, what about your user ?
[23:05] <h00k> ZykoticK9: it's a really stock install of Lucid
[23:05] <ZykoticK9> h00k, not sure why you wouldn't have that then, sorry man best of luck.
[23:06] <h00k> ZykoticK9: I'll check in #ubuntuone
[23:07] <claptrap> abe3k_: Yeah, it has them.
[23:09] <Ian_Corne> fiew, this clean install on my ati box is blazingly fast
[23:09] <claptrap> abe3k_: Alright, got it.
[23:11] <claptrap> abe3k_: All mv'd successfully.
[23:12] <abe3k_> claptrap, when you try logging in again, do you get the folders with the original names back ?
[23:15] <claptrap> abe3k_: no.
[23:16] <abe3k_> claptrap, try sudo apt-get install --reinstall ubuntu-desktop
[23:17] <NinoScript> if I ugrade tu lucid, will my themes and stuff stop working? :O
[23:19] <claptrap> abe3k_: It's running.
[23:19] <abe3k_> claptrap, what is ?
[23:19] <claptrap> abe3k_: That command. And it's done.
[23:20] <abe3k_> claptrap, still getting looped ?
[23:20] <claptrap> abe3k_: TTY7 is just a blinking cursor. Reboot/
[23:20] <claptrap> ?
[23:21] <abe3k_> claptrap, no try a sudo service gdm start
[23:22] <claptrap> abe3k_: Job already running? Stop it?
[23:22] <abe3k_> claptrap, yeah or gdm restart
[23:23] <claptrap> gfdsfg
[23:23] <claptrap> sd
[23:23] <claptrap> fg
[23:23] <claptrap> dsf
[23:23] <claptrap> gds
[23:23] <claptrap> fg
[23:23] <claptrap> abe3k_: I want your body. Do you take donations?
[23:23] <abe3k_> claptrap, ha ?
[23:23] <abe3k_> claptrap, did it work ???
[23:23] <claptrap> abe3k_: Translation, I'm back in.
[23:23] <abe3k_> claptrap, gratz
[23:24] <claptrap> abe3k_: I'm in love with you.
[23:24] <abe3k_> claptrap, lol nice to hear that
[23:25] <claptrap> abe3k_: Looks like it killed all my settings, but this is better than a complete reinstall. THANK YOU SDFSFS
[23:25] <abe3k_> claptrap, just remember that your old configurations are still there, if you want everything to look the way they used to be just rename them from the tty1 while gdm is stopped
[23:27] <abe3k_> claptrap, you're welcomed
[23:27] <claptrap> abe3k_: Won't that re-break it? ._.
[23:27] <abe3k_> claptrap, I don't think so
[23:28] <abe3k_> claptrap, just rename the new folders to something like .gconf_3 and move the older _2 ones back in their place
[23:35] <claptrap> abe3k_: Awesome, settings came back. Seriously, give me an address and I'll send money lol
[23:36] <abe3k_> claptrap, lol, no need buddy, I'm glad everything worked out well!!
[23:36] <abe3k_> claptrap, just what if ....
[23:36] <abe3k_> claptrap, what if I thought of it as a desktop issue in the first place lol
[23:37] <abe3k_> claptrap, anyways the time was worth it
[23:37] <claptrap> abe3k_: I know, lol
[23:37] <claptrap> abe3k_: It was easier than we made it. ;D
[23:37] <abe3k_> claptrap, but hey, look on the bright side, yoou have the latest nvidia drivers installed ;)
[23:37] <claptrap> abe3k_: lolol
[23:39] <abe3k_> anyways I'm off for a slice of pepperoni pizza :)
[23:40] <abe3k_> cya guys
[23:40] <nightsjammies> Okay, so I know that I can write songs to my itouch in rhythmbox in lucid, but I can't figure it out in karmic...any ideas?
[23:40] <claptrap> abe3k_: Seeya!
[23:56] <ZykoticK9> nightsjammies, iphone and ipod touch are supported by default in Lucid and not supported by default in karmic - but you should be asking your question in #ubuntu as Lucid is not where you're experiencing the problem.  Good luck (i don't own an iphone/ipod so i have no ideas obviously)
[23:58] <spidoodle> so whats new with this version
[23:58] <OerHeks> boot time
[23:58] <spidoodle> ?
[23:58] <ZykoticK9> spidoodle, see the "new features since ubuntu 9.10" on the download page http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1
[23:59] <spidoodle> thanks