/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/22/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

desrtrickspencer3: good evening00:48
* desrt downloads the beta01:46
nigelbchrisccoulson: Another bug the desktop might want to take a look and reply.  gnome bug 613509 forwarded from bug 53149102:01
ubottuGnome bug 613509 in general "Switch "Shut Down" to "Switch Off" and "Suspend" to "Sleep"" [Trivial,Assigned] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61350902:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531491 in gnome-power-manager "Switch "Shut Down" to "Switch Off" and "Suspend" to "Sleep"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53149102:01
rickspencer3desrt, hi02:24
TheMuso/c/c03:27
pittiGood morning06:44
RAOFGood morning :)06:46
didrocksgood morning08:02
pittibonjour didrocks08:02
didrocksGuten Morgen pitti, did you have a good week-end,08:03
pittiyes, it was great; went hiking on Saturday, and had a Taekwondo training camp yesterday08:03
pittimy body is aching everywhere now :-P08:04
pittididrocks: how was your's?08:04
didrockspitti: excellent. Lot of walking though the town with Julie as the weather begins to be a little bit better :)08:06
pittiyeah, it's finally spring time here, too (except that yesterday it was raining like mad)08:11
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
pittiI'm off for ~ 1 hour for a doctor appointment and supermarket08:14
didrockssee you pitti08:14
seb128hello there!08:24
didrockshey seb128, how was your week-end?08:29
seb128hello didrocks, good, what about you?08:35
didrocksseb128: yeah, the weather at least enables to walk outside, it's good :)08:36
seb128does it sometime stop going out?08:36
* seb128 goes for a walk every weekened08:37
* didrocks don't like to walk when it's raining08:39
RAOFWhyever not? :)08:40
RAOFEvening, didrocks :)08:41
didrocksgood evening RAOF :)08:41
RAOFdidrocks: Have you seen https://code.launchpad.net/~raof/netbook-remix-launcher/fix-bug-467474/+merge/21349 ?08:43
seb128good evening RAOF08:43
RAOFseb128: Good morning :)08:43
RAOFdidrocks: I know you were busy last week, so it may have slipped through.08:43
didrocksRAOF: right, I wasn't subscribed to merges, looking at this now. Thanks!08:46
didrocksRAOF: sweet, that should fix most of issues with OpenGL driver which doesn't support well clutter09:01
seb128tseliot, hey09:11
tseliothi seb12809:11
seb128tseliot, thanks for fixing this nautilus crash09:12
tseliotseb128: no problem, it was affecting me too and I found it a bit annoying ;)09:13
seb128;-)09:13
seb128I need to check with bratsche why it was crashing though09:13
seb128I'm wondering if there is a bug in gtk too09:14
tseliotseb128: there is another problem now. Compiz' sync to vblank doesn't seem to work on the 2nd screen09:14
tseliotseb128: yes, I was planning on asking him about that09:14
tseliotI think that patch relied on another patch that he wrote to set the colourmap09:15
pittibonjour seb128! had a nice weekend?09:15
tseliothi pitti09:15
seb128hey pitti09:15
pittitseliot: hey Alberto, how are you?09:15
seb128pitti, yes, out of freaking out on saturday when reading my emails ;-)09:15
huatsmorning09:15
pittiseb128: yes, I'm terribly sorry about that09:15
seb128pitti, what about you?09:15
seb128lut huats09:16
tseliotpitti: much better now, thanks. You?09:16
huatshello seb12809:16
pittiI prepared a fixed cdbs now, and this time I also added four test cases09:16
seb128pitti, not your fault, I kept running around on friday saying we should unfreeze before friday evening09:16
pittiseb128: I was hiking on Saturday, and had a Taekwondo training camp yesterday *rubbing bones*09:16
pittiwas great09:16
seb128good ;-)09:16
tseliot:-)09:16
pittiseb128: well, it was my fault; should've tested it better09:16
pittibut oh well, things happen09:16
seb128right09:16
seb128I don't blame you09:16
pittitest cases FTW :)09:17
seb128I'm unhappy about how much the unfreezing took after beta was announced09:17
pittiit perfectly reproduces the bug now09:17
seb128we would have noticed when people were still around if it didn't take them hours to flush the queue09:17
didrocksseb128: we talked about that with chriscoulson and cjwatson on Saturday (about not unfreezing on Friday when it's becoming late for a part of the world), not sure that had any needful conclusion09:19
seb128I told them on friday that it was a good idea09:20
seb128but no point to discuss it for ages now, things have been fixed quickly thanks to people who hang around on weekend ;-)09:20
seb128I understand the need for freezes but once it was clear there was no respinning but just announces to send they could have let the uploads through09:21
seb128that was early in the afternoon09:21
seb128it some some hours to unfeeze and then again some hours for steve to accept uploads from the queue09:21
baptistemmheya good morning folks09:41
pittiTheMuso: can I assign bug 528524 to you? you already seem to have started debugging it; it seems that resampling in PA/alsa is broken on ARM? might there be some platform specific code to optimize resampling?09:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 528524 in pulseaudio "Sound not working in all apps on dove" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52852409:43
didrocksgood morning baptistemm09:43
baptistemmheya didrocks09:44
baptistemmis it still possible to add an apport hook to a package now?09:44
seb128baptistemm, yes09:45
seb128lut baptistemm09:45
baptistemmI think a hook for bluez would be really valuable09:45
baptistemmhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/apport/bluez-support/annotate/head:/source_bluez.py09:45
seb128can you open a bug about this and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors?09:46
baptistemmsure, I just wanted to make sure it was okay09:46
baptistemmpitti, is there any way to install a package temporarly for apport hook? getfacl is not installed by default but would be useful for /dev/rfkill09:48
seb128baptistemm, it's ok in any case if the change doesn't go in lucid it will go in lucid+1 so still good to have it on a bug09:48
pittibaptistemm: sorry, no; you could try using ctypes and use libacl, though09:51
baptistemmseb128, k, but I think it's still on-progress, I need to tweak some ouput of the commands09:51
pittiseb128: but if you just want to know whether the user has the fg console, you could evaluate ck-list-sessions and/or os.access('/dev/rfkill', 'w')09:52
seb128baptistemm, ^ I think that was for you09:52
pittiargh, sorry, yes09:52
baptistemmpitti, okay09:53
chrisccoulsonhello everyone10:00
pittihey chrisccoulson, how are you?10:03
chrisccoulsonhey pitti, yeah, i'm good thanks (a bit tired though)10:03
chrisccoulsonhow are you?10:03
seb128hey chrisccoulson10:06
seb128had a good week end?10:06
chrisccoulsonseb128 - yeah, it was ok thanks. did you have a good weekend too?10:07
seb128quite ok10:07
seb128too short10:07
chrisccoulsonyeah, i sometimes think that too ;)10:07
seb128and I managed to hurt my neck at sport some days ago so my back is hurting now10:08
chrisccoulsonouch, that's not good. i hope that gets better soon10:08
seb128that's already a bit better, thanks10:12
seb128\o/10:25
seb128libgnome-keyring and gnome-keyring updates, upstream replied to my email and fixed most issues I listed as stopper this weekend10:25
seb128the updates closes 5 lucid milestoned bugs10:26
seb128which were all lucid milestoned bugs we had on those10:26
seb128I started feeling uncomfortable with the new version in lucid10:26
didrockssweet \o/10:27
* didrocks will try to update the new clutter stack today10:28
seb128didrocks, nice10:28
seb128pitti, how does your shutdown hook works10:28
seb128pitti, we receives bugs on random session softwares about it10:28
pittiseb128: yes, I'm going to triage them in a bit10:29
seb128pitti, thanks10:29
pittiwe probably should disable the hook again, it's now turning from a small bug fix into a project10:29
seb128still curious to know what we should be doing about those10:29
pittiseb128: it's called from /etc/init.d/sendsigs10:29
seb128to be honest that seem rather buggy to me10:29
pittiseb128: so, that script sends SIGTERM to all processes10:29
pittithen waits 10 s10:29
pittiand then SIGKILLs then10:29
pittithe latter causes long shutdown times, and indicates hung processes10:30
pittiseb128: basically, the script collects info for all pids which are still running after 10 s after SIGTERM10:30
seb128why does it create long shutdown?10:30
pittibecause it waits 10 s for everythign to terminate10:30
seb128nothing wait on ie g-s-d to be closed to shutdown does it?10:30
pittisendsigs does10:31
seb128oh ok10:31
seb128I always though that those, ie g-s-d were supposed to just go away when xorg is taken down10:31
pittithe intention is to TERM first, so that processes have a chacne to clean up, save state, etc.10:31
pittiseb128: yes, and usually they are10:31
seb128ie that nothing would ever care about those being still running or not10:31
pittiI don't get any hung process here except plymouth10:31
seb128well we do receive bugs on those10:31
seb128I'm not sure what we are supposed to do with those...10:32
seb128did you just want to collect datas?10:32
pittiseb128: actually, at this point in shutdown, there shouldn't be _any_ user processes left10:32
pittiif you log out, g-session/X should tear them down10:32
seb128right10:32
seb128which is why I'm not sure what to do with those10:32
seb128or how to debug10:32
pittiseb128: yes, sabdfl asked me to add this to investigate long shutdown times10:32
pittiseb128: it did uncover a legitimate problem with plymouth10:32
pittiseb128: as I said, I'll disable it again now and then triage the bugs in a day or two10:33
seb128ok thanks10:33
seb128good enough for me10:33
seb128thanks for the explanation, still interesting to know what's going on10:33
seb128I'm still curious to know why some things are not taken down when the session close though10:33
seb128I will read your comments on those bugs ;-)10:34
pittiso, I don't know why those hang so often either10:34
seb128I'm wondering if one reason could be crash at shutdown10:35
seb128in which case apport would keep those up long enough for your script to list them10:35
pittimatej     1428  0.0  1.0  90164  9896 ?        Ds   17:44   0:03 /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon10:35
seb128since usually the dumping crash part is taking over 10s10:36
chrisccoulsonseb128 / pitti - i'm slightly surprised that g-s-d is still around at shutdown10:36
pittiseb128: here it's in "uninterruptible kernel sleep", and thus unkillable10:36
seb128pitti, would it be in this state if it was in crash collecting state?10:36
pittiseb128: that's a plausible cause10:36
pittiyes, I think so10:36
seb128k10:36
pittiseb128: ah, I just got the FFE for policykit-desktop-privileges (bug 455694); do you have a minute to source-NEW it? (it's a really trivial package, just shipping a single .pkla)10:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 455694 in policykit-1 "FFE: Provide some policykit privileges by default on desktops" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45569410:49
pittiseb128: (to main, please; its basically moving out the policy from the udisks package, and adding two more privs)10:50
seb128pitti, ok10:50
didrockspitti: I saw you recommited the last gdm changes to bzr branch in -ubuntu3 from Keybuk, but he did also some changes in -ubuntu2 out of tree too and that's not in bzr currently. Do you want me to finish this or it wasiignored on purpose?10:56
seb128urg gdm, I need to look at gdmsetup and get that in today10:56
seb128didrocks, or are you on that now?10:56
didrocksseb128: I was jumping on it just once clutter is finished and tested enough10:57
seb128ok thanks10:57
didrocksnow that I know that the issue should be around seteuid :)10:57
seb128I'm still busy with other things10:57
seb128ask pitti maybe10:57
pittididrocks: can you rebase the pending changes on top of  2.29.92-0ubuntu3?10:57
seb128he can probably tell you quickly what you are doing wrong with seteuid10:58
pittisince that was uploaded, bzr should have it, too10:58
pittiyes, I'm happy to help out here10:58
didrockspitti: sure, but 2.29.92-0ubuntu2 is not into bzr10:58
didrockspitti: ok, I will ping you about the seteuid issue once clutter is finished :)10:58
pittihm, it is here, from RoberT?10:58
pitti"bzr missing" says up to date10:59
didrockspitti: Keybuk didn't take the branch, it was an unreleased version10:59
seb128pitti, no, bzr lacks an upload from keybuk10:59
pittiseb128: ^ I thought I committed that10:59
seb128pitti, you commited 0ubuntu3 not 0ubuntu210:59
didrockspitti: you commited 2.29.92-0ubuntu3 content, not 2.29.92-0ubuntu210:59
pittioh, I see10:59
seb128pitti, there were 2 of those10:59
pittiRobert's 2.29.92-0ubuntu2 is misisng10:59
didrockssorry for not explaining that well enough :)10:59
pittiI just saw the 0ubuntu3 upload from Keybuk11:00
pittiright, that'll need some untangling, to rebase Robert's changes on top of 2.29.92-0ubuntu3 and commit the 0ubuntu2 from Scott11:00
didrockspitti: robert's one is not ready to be uploaded (it contains my work too)11:00
didrocksright11:00
pittididrocks: right, that should be 0ubuntu4 UNRELEASED now11:00
didrocksexactly11:00
pittididrocks: so, wrt. your original question, it wasn't done on purpose11:01
didrockspitti: ok, I'll do it in the same round, the bzr history will be a little bit strange, but well…11:01
pittididrocks: let's not worry about it too much11:01
Keybukyou should be able to cherry-pick the comment from the proper bzr branch that I committed to ;-)11:01
Keybukhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/gdm/lucid/revision/19811:02
Keybuks/comment/commit/11:02
pittino, those are unmergeable11:02
KeybukI said cherry-pick, not merge11:02
pittiKeybuk: getting the uploaded diffs isn't a problem11:02
pittiit's retroactively fixing the history of the real bzr branch to match reality ;)11:02
Keybukbzr merge -c tag:2.29.92-0ubuntu2 lp:ubuntu/gdm11:02
pittierm, -r surely? there should be two commits?11:03
Keybukno, -c11:03
pittiKeybuk: you don't change package and do dch -r/debcommit -r separately?11:03
KeybukI did, but it doesn't look like I pushed before the importer saw it11:03
Keybukso there's just one commit there11:03
pittiah, ok11:03
KeybukRevision ID: james.westby@ubuntu.com-20100311200642-douwocvebf20drrg11:04
Keybukthat means "importer beat bzr push"11:04
pittiah, this guy james_w commits an awful lot of code these days!11:04
* pitti hugs james_w11:04
Keybukit's a huge shame that -desktop aren't using the lp:ubuntu/* branches :-(11:05
Keybukthey work really well for everything else11:05
seb128Keybuk, right, for some value of work well11:07
seb128Keybuk, like having to wait half an hour to get your source11:07
hyperairwhat's the status of hal in lucid?11:07
pittihyperair: we install it by default, but not started on boot; gnome-power-manager will use it if the system doesn't support XBACKLIGHT11:10
pittihyperair: it's dbus-activated now11:10
hyperairpitti: i see. i wonder how that works with podsleuth..11:11
hyperairhmm i think podsleuth relies on hal to do its polling or whatever11:12
hyperairthis is problematic.11:12
pittiat some point we'll need something like shallow branches/light checkouts, to avoid downloading tons of uninteresting history11:12
Keybukyou mean like "bzr checkout --lightweight"? :)11:12
pittithat's slow11:12
pittiwell, it was a year ago, havent' tried it since then11:13
Keybukbzr branch lp:ubuntu/upstart  9.39s user 0.58s system 20% cpu 47.727 total11:13
Keybukbzr co --lightweight lp:ubuntu/upstart  0.72s user 0.20s system 2% cpu 38.880 total11:13
pittiat some point we'll switch over, too, but it's not a priority right now11:13
seb128it's really nice when upstream code is in bzr11:14
pittiand we still need to honor Vcs-Bzr: for packages where the import fails (like cdbs or sysvinit)11:14
seb128but otherwise it doesn't bring us a lot11:14
Keybukseb128: well, one obvious on-topic thing is brings you is that uploads by other people are automatically committed to your bzr repo11:14
Keybukand it brings us that everything in Ubuntu uses one set of repositories11:15
Keybukpitti: sysvinit has an lp:ubuntu/sysvinit branch11:15
pittithat's karmic11:15
Keybukcdbs also looks like it has an lp:ubuntu/sysvinit branch11:15
pittiit didn't import any lucid version11:15
pittisimilar to cdbs11:15
pittiKeybuk: yes, but they are out of date11:15
pitti$ time bzr get lp:ubuntu/gnome-panel11:15
pittireal0m58.496s11:15
Keybuksee, that's hardly "half an hour"11:16
Keybukand you only need do it once; ever after "bzr pull" will update it - even to new upstream versions11:17
pittiwell, that's only one side of the story; you have to push back orig.tar.gz's to the (slim) upstream on commit, and additionally upload the package11:17
pittithat will get better once we have builds from branches11:17
Keybukpitti: no you don't, you only push back the diff between orig.tar.gz11:17
pittiKeybuk: do you know how to get a new tarball into the pristine-tar bzr?11:19
Keybukpitti: merge-upstream11:19
pittilast time I wondered about this, I got told "that doesn't work yet"11:19
pittioh, nice11:19
seb128is there any clear documentation about what the workflow is supposed to be?11:20
Keybukbzr merge-upstream --version=1.0.0 ../foo-1.0.0.tar.gz11:20
seb128and what commands to use while doing an update11:20
Keybukseb128: yes, plenty on the distributed development wiki pages11:20
seb128Keybuk, plenty is the issue, we need something clear everybody follows, not a zillion of different ways11:20
Keybukthat's precisely my point11:20
Keybukthis is a single way that everyone should be following11:20
seb128we fail at communicating it properly though11:21
didrocksno really, when upstream has a bzr branch, we should use bzr merge-upstream --version=1.0.0 ../foo-1.0.0.tar.gz ../foo11:21
seb128which leads to people not using it11:21
Keybukdidrocks: it usually figures that last bit out itself11:21
didrocksso, not sure about what differences are involved between the two "modes"11:21
didrocksKeybuk: oh really? should have a try then :)11:21
seb128the true way seems to change every second month11:21
Keybukseb128: I think yours is the only team that isn't using this11:22
Keybukand it hasn't changed design in a long time11:22
Keybukthere's been plenty of UDS demos and sessions about it11:22
seb128Keybuk, I'm sure you will find plenty of people not using what you described11:22
Keybuk(assuming we don't count kernel for a moment)11:22
seb128most people still just upload11:22
seb128and don't use bzr11:22
Keybuksure, and the great thing about the UDD work is that it doesn't matter if they do!11:23
seb128$ time bzr get lp:ubuntu/gdm11:23
seb128\  28805KB   122KB/s | Fetching revisions:Inserting stream11:23
seb128still running...11:23
seb128it takes me like 30 seconds to apt-get it or get the ubuntu-desktop bzr11:23
Keybukand it takes you what, a minute to bzr get it?11:23
Keybukand you only need to bzr get once11:23
seb128no11:23
seb128it's running for over 5 minutes now11:24
seb128and still running11:24
ogragrrr11:24
seb128it's already 10 times slower11:24
* ogra whacks gnome-terminal11:24
seb128and still going11:24
ograhum ... seems it is not gnome-terminal that makes my desktop stuck with the currently focused app :/11:25
* ogra cant alt-tab anymore and the mouse constantly stays as text cursor11:25
Keybukeven if it was 10 times slower, that'd be only 5 minutes to branch - which is hardly forever11:25
ograi cant click on anything either11:25
Keybukanyway, I give up11:25
Keybukyou're clearly not interested11:25
Keybukif you don't want to use your colleague's work, that's your business ;-)11:25
ogra~/.xsession-errors shows a lot of glib messages every time i alt-tab or click on something11:26
Keybukbut don't complain when the rest of us do11:26
Keybukand it causes more work for you11:26
pittiwell, I think we'll migrate eventually, but not in one big leap11:26
seb128Keybuk, you are not being constructive there11:26
pittifirst, we'd loose the history from existing bzr, and second it's still too painful for some packages11:26
pittidropping vcs-bzr: one by one seems fine11:26
seb128Keybuk, not respecting the vcs being used and not caring about other people workflow is not constructive11:26
seb128real6m58.771s11:27
pittibut right now it is a huge regression in performance, so we don't just want to throw away an established workflow wholesale for little benefit11:27
seb128to get gdm bzr there11:27
seb128Keybuk, we are interested by what is making job easier11:27
pitti(as I said, throwing it away piece by piece is fine)11:28
seb128not harder11:28
Keybukyour unique branches, in which you don't even have buildable or editable source is harder for me11:28
seb128bzr bd-do and you are there11:29
seb128it's not that hard11:29
Keybukusing james_w's work isn't hard either11:29
seb128no, but there is no reason everybody should not make efforts11:29
seb128we will slightly get there and use the common workflow11:29
seb128but meanwhile you can try to be nice citizen when touching something not converted yet11:29
KeybukI do generally try to11:30
Keybukbut will frequently fail11:30
seb128and we will frequently drop your changes :-(11:30
Keybukand I will frequently complain to your line manager when you do11:30
seb128well you can, but you are the one at fail11:30
pittiI still get a lot of bad merge requests against apport, too, so I feel your pain11:30
Keybuksorry, I don't agree11:31
seb128debcheckout get you the right source11:31
Keybukif you upload, and find a version already there11:31
Keybukthen you have no excuse for dropping changes11:31
Keybukever11:31
pittibut right now there's no way around having Vcs-Bzr: still, I'm afraid11:31
Keybukexcept bloody mindedness11:31
seb128right, when we do it it's not on purpose11:31
Keybukyes you do11:31
Keybukevery time11:31
pittidrop changes> uh, did we?11:31
Keybukand you know it11:31
seb128when?11:31
pittiexcept for the gdm ubuntu2 upload which I just missed (just committed ubuntu3)11:31
seb128we did merge your gdm changes in our bzr11:31
seb128I don't think every time is fair11:32
Keybukdebcheckout -> doesn't do lp:ubuntu/*11:32
seb128we should fix that11:32
pittionly if it can also validate that the branch is current11:32
pitti(which sohuldn't be a problem with rmadison)11:32
pittibut would be nice to have, indeed11:32
Laneymake it a different tool, please11:33
Laneyubucheckout11:33
KeybukLaney: it's from a debian source package11:34
Keybukand is a common tool between Debian and Ubuntu11:34
ogra_hulp !11:34
LaneyI know, and I often use it to get Debian packaging branches11:34
Laneyif it starts pulling from LP then it will break my workflow11:34
ogra_i seem to hit a heavy glib bug where i cant get my focus out of a running app11:34
seb128Laney, well it's your issue11:34
seb128Laney, seems normal that on ubuntu it pulls the ubuntu source11:35
seb128Laney, that's what most people working on ubuntu want usually11:35
Laneyit seems normal that it pulls the branch defined in the control file to me11:35
seb128Laney, you should be using a flag telling to use the debian vcs if you want that11:35
seb128Laney, out of the fact that we don't specify canonical bzr locations there11:35
seb128we would have to change every source package for nothing11:35
Laneyindeed, that's why I think it should be a separate mode11:36
seb128I think it should be default11:36
seb128with an option to turn it off11:36
seb128the default should be what makes sense on ubuntu11:36
pittiand at one point we'll hopefully have the entire archive in bzr, so that we can stop worrying11:36
seb128pitti, well that doesn't fix Laney's usecase to not want to ubuntu source but the debian one11:36
pittiseb128: I meant we wouldn't need debcheckout any more11:37
Laneydebcheckout -> get from Debian, bzr get -> get from LP11:37
seb128right11:37
Laneythat's my workflow11:37
seb128bzr get what?11:37
Laneywhatever is appropriate11:37
Laneynot getting into your argument ;)11:37
seb128well that's the interest of debcheckout11:37
seb128to not have to specify that11:38
seb128or to figure what it is11:38
seb128right now that should be first the control Vcs if one11:38
seb128and if there is none default to the canonical location11:38
Laneyand ignore it if it's not LP?11:39
seb128no11:39
seb128when merging with debian you should rename the Vcs if that's not the one used for Ubuntu11:39
seb128or drop it11:39
Keybukor right11:39
KeybukI remember now11:39
Keybuk(was just browsing my history for why I wasn't using the right gdm branch in the first place)11:40
* ogra_ curses11:40
Keybukquest tmp% debcheckout gdm11:40
Keybukdeclared bzr repository at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gdm/ubuntu11:40
Keybukbzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gdm/ubuntu gdm ...11:40
Keybukbzr: ERROR: Invalid http response for https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gdm/ubuntu/.bzr/branch-format: Unable to handle http code 405: expected 200 or 404 for full response.11:40
Keybukcheckout failed (the command above returned a non-zero exit code)11:40
Keybuk--11:40
KeybukI tried11:40
Keybukand when I got that, I checked whether there was an lp:ubuntu/gdm with the right version11:40
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
Keybukand assumed (not unreasonably) that you must have switched and forgotten to update the header11:40
Keybukand that's why I used the lp:ubuntu/gdm branch11:41
Keybukand since it was already checked out in my lucid folder, I've just used "bzr pull" ever since11:41
seb128k11:42
seb128we will revisit things next cycle11:42
seb128but now we have other issues to work on for lucid11:42
chrisccoulsonon the subject of bzr....11:43
chrisccoulsonsome of our desktop branches are out of date this morning after the breakage at the weekend11:43
chrisccoulsonso, people might want to remember that :-)11:44
pitti*nod*11:45
pittiseb128, kenvandine: I think the first vcs-bzr: that we should drop are the indicator related ones11:46
pittithey already have full source in bzr, thus using lp:ubuntu/pkgname isn't any different wrt. working with the package11:46
seb128pitti, right, we did that already for some11:46
seb128I'm doing that on the way when doing an update and not in a hurry to get things done before freeze or end of day or whatever11:47
pitti*nod*11:47
seb128ie indicator-sound, ido etc are already managed this way11:47
seb128it really makes sense for those with upstream in bzr11:47
seb128and the sources are small enough11:47
pittiseb128: do you know when gnome 2.30 freezes?11:48
pittii. e. until when we can get bug fixes in?11:48
seb128pitti, "freezes"?11:48
seb128one week ago11:48
pittiah, ok11:49
seb128it's code frozen for a week11:49
seb128you can ask for freeze breaks if required though11:49
pittiok, thanks11:49
ograhelp ! glib and gdk are freaking out on me, i'm 100% stuck in the first app i start after X comes up, .xsession-errors shows gobject_unref assertion errors and gdk_window_get_events errors ... i cant file a bug because i cant get focus on the browser ubuntu-bug brings up11:49
pittiogra: on arm?11:50
ograpitti, on my laptop11:50
ograit worked over the whole weekend, just started that behavior 1h ago, i rebooted several times already (after restarting X several times before)11:51
pittiwhat changed an hour ago? dist-upgrade?11:51
ograi didnt upgrade or anything so the system is in the same state that worked the last days11:51
ograi didnt do *anything*  special ... three terminals, browser, xchat and evo were open when it started11:51
ograit seems to be a heavy issue with glib or gdk11:52
ograseems gdk windows arent recognized as windows anymore if i read the errors right11:53
ogranor does gobject_ref or _unref work11:53
asac_ogra: sure you rebooted before today?11:58
pittiogra: you don't happen to have a PPA with client-side decorations still running or so?11:59
asac_he is gone ;)11:59
didrocksseb128: so, new clutter 1.2.x needs new clutter-gtk (ok, we had a released last week). This one use gobject-introspect and build-dep on gir1.0-gtk-2.0. But this one is an old version of gir-repository and needs a new one (2.19.5, so I assume directly from gtk source). So, if we want the new clutter version, I can split the gtk package or build without introspection11:59
ograpitti, if i bring up a terminal after boot, i cant even move it :/12:00
pittiogra: you don't happen to have a PPA with client-side decorations still running or so?12:00
ogranope12:00
pittiogra: try creating a new user or launch a guest session?12:00
LaserJockdidrocks: hi, how was your weekend?12:00
pittiogra: or metacity --replace12:01
ograpitti, already done, its not the WM12:01
pittiogra: (or compiz --replace if you are already running metacity)12:01
didrocksLaserJock: good, thanks, with at least a spring weather now :) Yours?12:01
pittiogra: we had a fair bit of fallout over the weekend due to some mis-built nautilus/gnome-panel/etc.; you are on lucid current?12:01
LaserJockdidrocks: sunny and very warm this weekend in Boston12:01
ograpitti, i am, but the last time i upgraded was friday12:02
tseliotpitti: the fglrx binaries still don't seem to be in the archive, can you approve them, please?12:02
asac_ogra: just dist-upgrade ... just in case12:02
ograpitti, and the system behaved until today12:02
asac_it cant get worse for you i figure ;)12:02
ograheh, yeah, i guess so12:02
pittitseliot: yep, looking12:02
tseliotthanks12:02
tseliotpitti: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/2:8.721-0ubuntu4/+build/157179012:02
pittitseliot: so those were renamed?12:02
pittitseliot: what was the rationale for the renaming, especially that late in the cycle?12:03
LaserJockdidrocks: I was thinking last night, do you think it'd be possible to do some sort of UNE Hug Day before Beta 2 gets here? Would that be useful at this stage?12:03
tseliotpitti: yes, to be consistent with nvidia12:03
pittitseliot: and they don't build a transitional package, so I'm a bit worried about accepting that now12:03
tseliotpitti: would you like me to update a new version with the transitional packages before you approve them?12:04
pittitseliot: that'd be better I think12:04
pittitseliot: or just keep the name as it is :)12:04
didrocksLaserJock: right, we discussed that with seb128 at Portland. I guess that can be the right time now that we know/handle the bugs that can be interested. I just have to finish updating the clutter stack (I hope today, but it's getting a little bit more fuzzy) as it can have some impact, first12:04
tseliotpitti: that would be a bit confusing as upstream is using those names now12:05
ograhmm, the upgrade only gets me keyring, libc and init stuff12:05
pittitseliot: for packages?12:05
tseliotpitti: yes, as we share the same source, and I maintain both12:05
pittitseliot: anyway, if it gets transitional packages, it's fine for me12:05
tseliotok12:05
LaserJockdidrocks: I noticed that netbook-launcher has something like 20 New bugs, I guess it would be good to get those all triaged12:05
pittitseliot: we also need to update jockey then, I figure12:05
tseliotpitti: yes, of course, it's on my TODO list12:06
pittitseliot: ok, please let me know when you uploaded, then I'll wave them through12:06
didrocksLaserJock: oh really? I tried to triage day-to-day them since I subscribed. But as I triaged at first shot more than 300 bugs, I can have miss some :)12:06
* pitti lunches12:06
didrockspitti: enjoy12:06
tseliotpitti: uploaded12:08
seb128re12:10
seb128didrocks, sorry I was at lunch12:11
didrocksseb128: no pb, take your time :)12:11
seb128didrocks, clutter, I would keep doing what we do now12:11
seb128ie don't build with introspection12:12
ograpitti, guest session works ... *whine* i dont want to lose my settings :(12:12
LaserJockogra: obviously you need a registry cleaner ;p12:12
didrocksseb128: clutter-gtk is using introspection12:13
ograhaha12:13
seb128didrocks, optional?12:13
LaserJockogra: I'll sell you one for just $19.9512:13
didrocksseb128: I don't understand what means optional in that case, it build-deps on the gir-* package and it's a flag in configure turned on12:13
ograLaserJock, i could also just say "ubuntu is so apple like now, we only support single tasking" :P12:13
LaserJocklol12:14
ograoh my, the default fonts look horrible ...12:16
seb128didrocks, ok, it's not clear to me, are those using gir now?12:16
seb128didrocks, it do you want to turn that on?12:16
ograeverything is so huge suddenly12:16
ograpitti, rm -rf .gconf helped12:16
didrocksseb128: it's using gir already12:16
seb128didrocks, or is that just that the requirement bump require the gtk version?12:16
seb128ok so it requires a newest gir than the gir one?12:17
seb128ie to build from gtk?12:17
seb128didrocks, what is your opinion about that?12:18
didrocksseb128: I guess the bump is just for gtk, but I don't know if "gtk gir" file has changed too. I'm not sure how you can test this12:18
seb128didrocks, right, well basically it means we should build the gtk gir from gtk now12:18
didrocksseb128: right, that's what I was proposing to you, I can handle this if we still want to build with introspection12:18
Keybukpitti: #udev reminds me that I saw people complaining about a ConsoleKit issue last week/over the weekend?12:22
Keybukdid you see anything about that?12:22
ograargh12:23
ogradidnt really work out seems its still partially there12:23
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
chrisccoulsonKeybuk - i mentioned a consolekit issue last week, and your name was mentioned there12:29
chrisccoulsonthat might have been what you remember12:29
Keybukcan you remember more about what you mentioned?12:29
chrisccoulsonKeybuk - a couple of times when I booted last week, consolekit was unable to determine what the active VT was12:30
chrisccoulsonand it was throwing out errors like this:12:31
chrisccoulson WARNING: Error waiting for native console 5 activation: Invalid argument12:31
ograok, it got wose now ... seems alt-F4 suddenly suspends my machine12:31
chrisccoulsonKeybuk - that error is a result of "ioctl (console_fd, VT_WAITACTIVE, num);" failing with EINVAL12:32
Keybukright12:32
Keybukbut why is consolekit using that ioctl?12:32
Keybukthat's only used when you switch VT12:32
chrisccoulsonKeybuk - it spawns a thread for each VT, which waits for it to become active12:32
chrisccoulsonso it can track where the active one is12:33
Keybukok12:33
Keybukit'll fail with -EINVAL for a short period during boot12:33
Keybukdoes it correctly back-off from that, and restart the thread again later?12:34
Keybuk(if it goes into an infinite loop, that's not good either)12:34
chrisccoulsonKeybuk - no, that's probably the issue really. once it has failed, it just gives up12:34
Keybukyeah12:34
chrisccoulsonso, we probably need to fix consolekit then?12:34
Keybukwe caused X to have the same bug12:34
chrisccoulsonah, ok. that makes sense. and that explains why i can't recreate it all the time12:34
Keybukyou get -EINVAL from VT_WAITACTIVE in a very specific condition12:35
Keybukthe current foreground VT is in KD_GRAPHICS mode, but also VT_AUTO12:35
Keybukie. it's been left with painted graphics ... but no process running on it12:35
Keybuksince it's in graphics mode, the kernel prohibits VT switches12:35
* ogra wonders if Keybuk's recent changes to plymouth cause his laptop to suspend on console switching 12:36
Keybukcan you guess when that condition is true?12:36
Keybukogra: doubtful12:36
chrisccoulsondo you know how long it's in that condition for?12:36
Keybukchrisccoulson: however long the X server takes to start ;-)12:36
Keybukcouple of seconds usually12:36
asac_good news is that i was able to boot with system clock reset to 0 ... and mountall didnt loop ;)12:36
chrisccoulsonoh, right. that seems obvious now :)12:36
asac_thanks for that!12:36
chrisccoulsonKeybuk - so the window is quite large then (and I think consolekit is activated after GDM starts isn't it?)12:37
chrisccoulsoni think gdm is the first thing to use it anyway12:37
ograasac_, btw, the workaround trick is to edit /lib/init/fstab in case it shows up again ... :)12:37
ograasac_, i meant to tell you earlier12:37
Keybukchrisccoulson: gdm activates it12:38
chrisccoulsonyeah, i thought so12:38
Keybukwhich means it's activated "before X starts or while X is starting"12:38
chrisccoulsonthanks12:38
Keybukie. exactly in that window12:38
asac_ogra: i really hope its fixed now ;)12:39
Keybukchrisccoulson: so, on the VT_WAITACTIVE+VT_AUTO thing ... you could kinda argue it's a kernel bug12:40
Keybukbecause the kernel bug should deal with that case on its own12:40
Keybukbut the kernel guys will tell you that the whole VT_* stuff is a mess, and they'd rather leave it alone12:41
chrisccoulsonyeah, it might be easier to work around it in consolekit for now12:41
Keybukexactly12:41
Keybuk"for now" isn't really appropriate here12:41
KeybukI suspect the kernel VT layer will never get fixed12:41
chrisccoulsoni'll open a consolekit bug anyway12:41
Keybukinstead we'll just end up (in a thousand years) using wayland to manage the console, with VTE for "terminal" and switching between that and windows effortlessly12:42
Keybukright12:42
KeybukI mean consolekit will have to work around it forever12:42
Keybukas the point at which the problem goes away is the point we also wouldn't need consolekit12:42
Keybukhttp://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0907.0/00733.html12:43
Keybuk^ interesting12:43
chrisccoulsonthanks, i'll have a read of that later ;)12:44
Keybukour kernel appears to have VT_WAITEVENT support12:44
Keybukstruct vt_event {12:45
Keybuk        unsigned int event;12:45
Keybuk#define VT_EVENT_SWITCH         0x0001  /* Console switch */12:45
Keybuk#define VT_EVENT_BLANK          0x0002  /* Screen blank */12:45
Keybuk#define VT_EVENT_UNBLANK        0x0004  /* Screen unblank */12:45
Keybuk#define VT_EVENT_RESIZE         0x0008  /* Resize display */12:45
Keybuk#define VT_MAX_EVENT            0x000F12:45
Keybuk        unsigned int oldev;             /* Old console */12:45
Keybuk        unsigned int newev;             /* New console (if changing) */12:45
Keybuk        unsigned int pad[4];            /* Padding for expansion */12:45
Keybuk};12:45
Keybuk#define VT_WAITEVENT    0x560E  /* Wait for an event */12:45
Keybukdunno if that's any better, mind you12:45
pittiogra, Keybuk: suspend-on-VT-switch is bug 515465; I just committed the fix upstream, FYI12:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 515465 in gnome-power-manager "suspends when switching VTs when lid is closed" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51546512:59
pittiogra: well, at least it's very probable that this is what you see as well?13:00
ograpitti, btw, back to normal here, seems it was somehow related to the USB hub in my monitor, detaching everything from the laptop made everything work again13:05
* ogra checks the bug13:05
baptistemmcan someone have a look to 534702 ? I would like to have it to be tested quickly13:05
pittiogra: fun; that should have left some traces in kern.log/dmesg?13:05
ograpitti, nothing at all13:05
chrisccoulsonbug 53470213:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 534702 in bluez "Update bluez to 4.62" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53470213:05
ograthe only thing i saw were the ton of glib and gdk erros in ~/.xsession-errors13:05
chrisccoulsonbaptistemm, oh, i probably can't help you there ;)13:06
ograpitti, bug is identical, lid also closed here13:06
pittiogra: ok, fine13:06
* ogra clicks the me too link :)13:06
pittiogra: don't worry, it'll land in lucid :) I just got it upstream13:06
ograuhm, since resetting my gconf setup the notification fonts got very very small13:07
baptistemmchrisccoulson, I reported upstream for bug 53210113:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 532101 in gnome-user-share ""You can receive files over Bluetooth into this folder" always visible on XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR folder, even without a Bluetooth device" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53210113:07
chrisccoulsonogra - do people actually use that link? i thought everybody just posted comments like "+1, please fix it now else I'll go back to windows"13:07
chrisccoulsonbaptistemm, thanks13:07
chrisccoulsonthat's on my list of things to fix, but it's quite far down the list at the moment13:07
ograchrisccoulson, i'm annoyed be people doing that on my bugs so i usually try to be a good example and use the link :)13:08
chrisccoulsonbaptistemm, i suspect it will turn in to some weekend hacking ;)13:08
chrisccoulsonogra - yeah, i get annoyed by that too13:08
ograthough in ARM land i rarely even get me-too's :)13:09
chrisccoulsonheh13:09
ograjust move your work focus ;)13:09
baptistemmchrisccoulson, yeah, some check is required like using some gnome-bluetooth API13:09
chrisccoulsonbaptistemm, yeah, i took a look at it a couple of weekends ago13:09
chrisccoulsoni think i know what i need to do with it now, i just need to actually sit down and implement it13:10
baptistemmI don't understand if the bug is also about the presence of the bar always and a way to discard it13:10
chrisccoulsonbaptistemm, the complex part is that it also displays for webdav too13:10
baptistemmoh true ...13:10
chrisccoulsonso, we need an ubuntu-specific part to hide that when apache is not installed, to match the other UI change i did13:10
chrisccoulsonpitti - did you see hughsie's response to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613509 ?13:12
ubottuGnome bug 613509 in general "Switch "Shut Down" to "Switch Off" and "Suspend" to "Sleep"" [Trivial,Assigned]13:12
pittichrisccoulson: I didn't, no13:12
chrisccoulsoni get the impression that we might have upset him a bit. i hope not though13:12
* pitti reads13:12
pittichrisccoulson: TBH, I agree to him, though13:13
pittithis change completely broke translations13:13
chrisccoulsonyeah, me too13:13
pittiuntil the weekend I had "Ruhe" and "Ruhezustand"13:13
pittiimpossible to tell which is which13:13
pitti"Zustand" == "state"13:13
chrisccoulsonah13:14
pittii. e. something like "suspend" and "suspend state"13:14
pittiand it was really late for such string changes to happen13:14
chrisccoulsonyeah, that's a bit weird to see ;)13:14
seb128chrisccoulson, the switch off change has been undone btw13:15
seb128not sure if you did follow those13:15
chrisccoulsonseb128 - thanks. i didn't notice that yet, but i've not upgraded since we unfroze on friday13:15
* seb128 clears13:15
chrisccoulsoni should probably upgrade now really13:16
seb128ups13:16
pittiright, I have the old names back again13:16
seb128the string was too british apparently13:16
ograhmm, was the middle click on the windowlist disabled on purpose ? i cant move apps around in it13:16
seb128pitti, well suspend has not been switched back I think13:16
chrisccoulsonseb128 - ah, i was just about to ask that13:17
pittiseb128: well, I only see the German translation, and they are fixed again13:17
chrisccoulsonthat's what hughsie has an issue with13:17
seb128pitti, we got a langpack update today13:17
pittii. e. "Ruhe" (the new and wrong name for suspend) is back to "Bereitschaft"13:17
pittiseb128: perhaps it's that13:17
seb128that's the design team for you13:17
seb128deciding on wording changes for things nobody has issue with after freeze13:17
pittihm, we keep telling them that string changes are expensive and painful..13:18
seb128which leads to extra work and discussions for no real win13:18
ograpitti, well, it wasnt *that* wrong, RB surely stops playing when you suspend :P13:18
seb128right13:18
pittiogra: heh13:18
pittiogra: but "Ruhe" vs. "Ruhezustand"??13:18
ograzustand ... heh13:18
ograi like "bereitschaft"13:19
pittinot that I think that the German translation was particularly clever13:19
seb128rickspencer3, hey13:19
pittirickspencer3: good morning13:19
rickspencer3hi seb128, pitti good morning13:19
pittiseb128: (too busy for the source NEW? I'll find someone else)13:19
ograpitti, there are particular german words that cause bad pictures in my brain ... "wohnhaft" makes me think of jails :)13:19
seb128rickspencer3, did you have a good weekend?13:19
rickspencer3seb128, yes, quite nice13:20
rickspencer3seb128, you?13:20
seb128rickspencer3, quite good too though a bit short, thank you13:20
didrockshey rickspencer313:21
kenvandinegood morning rickspencer313:21
rickspencer3hi didrocks13:21
rickspencer3hi kenvandine13:21
kenvandinedpm, i merged all those fixes from the translation team, you guys rock!13:22
seb128seems kenvandine just show up to say hello to rickspencer3 ;-)13:22
rickspencer3hehe13:22
seb128kenvandine, we are important enough people to say hello to before rick joins right? ;-)13:22
rickspencer3he's got "good morning rickspencer3" wired into a bot13:23
kenvandinehehe13:23
* kenvandine just looked at irc13:23
kenvandineseb128, you always preach about pushing updates on a friday... and we got bit :/13:23
seb128I'm a bit annoyed about that yes13:24
kenvandinenone of us were happy late friday night :/13:24
seb128I tried for most of friday to tell people to not unfreeze on friday evening especially when it was clear we were not going to respin13:24
seb128ie to unfreeze early in the afternoon13:24
kenvandinei could just hear you saying i told you so13:24
seb128lol13:25
kenvandine:)13:25
dpmkenvandine, awesome, thanks Ken!13:25
kenvandinedpm, no problem.. keep them coming!13:25
kenvandine:)13:25
seb128I think it's clearly stupid but other people seem to think it's a non issue13:26
dpmsure ;)13:26
seb128*shrug*13:26
seb128anyway it happened after I went to bed and was fixed by time I read my email on saturday13:26
seb128I'm just sorry for the people who had to spend friday night or saturday morning fixing that13:26
rickspencer3kenvandine,  seb128, are you referring to "no panels" bug?13:28
seb128rickspencer3, it was not only gnome-panel, also nautilus, etc13:28
seb128rickspencer3, but yes13:28
* pitti blushes13:28
seb128rickspencer3, to the "upgrade after beta1 breaks GNOME for every user letting an empty background after login"13:29
kenvandinerickspencer3, yeah... it was bad :)13:29
seb128pitti, we all do bugs not blaming you there13:29
rickspencer3no blame to be had13:30
seb128I'm unhappy about freeze handling though, I've been trying to push people to unfreeze for the whole friday afternoon to avoid that13:30
pittioh, it's not that I feel bad enough to quit and shoot myself or so :)13:30
pittish*t happens13:30
pittiand it's all good now13:30
rickspencer3it was not catastrophic, and that's why we have betas and such13:30
rickspencer3kenvandine, one piece of feedback that we might want to respond to is about gwibber start time13:31
seb128rickspencer3, still I would like to have a discussion about unfreezing on friday evening13:31
pittiit was my secret plan to ensure that everyone relaxes on that weekend instead of using computers :-P13:31
seb128rickspencer3, what would be the best way to bring that for discussion?13:31
seb128I tried on IRC but failed13:31
pittiseb128: I can bring it up in the next release meeting13:31
rickspencer3seb128, I guess that would be with the release manager13:31
seb128pitti, I would appreciate than you13:31
seb128thank13:31
kenvandinerickspencer3, ryan and i both spent some time looking at start time this weekend13:31
kenvandineit will get a little better when one of the existing desktopcouch bugs gets fixed13:32
kenvandinerickspencer3, the biggest hit is desktopcouch startup time13:33
kenvandinesome of it is UI startup, which can be improved but not this cycle13:33
didrocksseb128: rickspencer3: as told previously, we tried to discuss it with chrisccoulson and cjwatson on Saturday, but not sure that a solution or process has been decided at the end13:33
seb128didrocks, I will read the IRC logs later13:34
didrocksseb128: around 1 PM IIRC13:34
kenvandinerickspencer3, one thing we will do now that improves it some is db size13:34
chrisccoulsonheh, friday night was "interesting"13:34
LaserJockkenvandine: is there a particular reason gwibber uses desktopcouch over traditional config files?13:34
kenvandinewe now automatically compact the db, and are more efficient at storage13:35
=== robbiew_ is now known as robbiew
kenvandinebut we are also going to be cleaning the messages db, so we don't store an infinite amount of messages13:35
kenvandineLaserJock, one reason is sync, but there are quite a few nice things we get from it13:35
kenvandineincluding events, so when new messages are inserted into the database we trigger events like notifications, indicators, etc13:36
kenvandineripped a bunch of buggy code out of gwibber :)13:36
tseliotpitti: approved?13:36
kenvandineLaserJock, and desktopcouch is very nice to work with13:37
pittitseliot: last time I looked it was still waiting on the amd64 build; I'll have a look soon13:37
tseliotpitti: thanks13:37
kenvandineif we make the db size more reasonable, it will be a bit faster... we just need dc to start faster too13:37
LaserJockkenvandine: would it be possible (in the sense of being resonable) to have a non-couchdb backend?13:37
kenvandineLaserJock, not without a major overhaul again... the gwibber internals depend on couch13:37
LaserJockinteresting13:38
kenvandinewe use couch for a ton of stuff, not just storage13:38
kenvandinecouch made gwibber considerably simpler13:38
LaserJockI see13:39
kenvandinesince the last release, we have made our usage of couch more effecient13:39
kenvandinelike we found we were storing redundant data, that is fixed13:40
LaserJockah13:40
kenvandineand automatic compaction13:40
kenvandinedb size will be considerably smaller13:40
LaserJockI've noticed that the messages db is ~ 70MB for me and gwibber is using about that much RAM13:40
kenvandineLaserJock, the RAM usage is relatively recent bug, it is a desktopcouch/dbus bug13:41
kenvandinethey are trying to figure that out13:41
LaserJockit often annoys me that messaging apps are often the most resource hungry applications I run13:41
kenvandinewe have been profiling it very closely, the rule has been to keep the backend down to below 15M on x86 and 30M on x86_6413:41
kenvandinewhich until about two weeks ago, maybe 3 weeks ago... the service never topped that13:42
kenvandinewhich is a huge improvement compared to 2.0 :)13:42
kenvandinewhich was more like 700M :)13:42
kenvandineanyway, the desktopcouch guys are working on that bug13:42
LaserJockyeah, hopefully that works out13:43
seb128pitti, policykit-desktop-privileges accepted btw13:43
pittiseb128: \o/ cheers13:43
kenvandinejust a call to CouchDatabase in python grows RSS footprint by 64M, before that bug it was about 400K13:44
seb128np13:44
LaserJockso far I've been very unimpressed with desktopcouch/couchdb but I'm willing to be a little patient for them to work stuff out13:44
* kenvandine has been very impressed, it makes so many things simple... it is really nice for an app developer13:44
LaserJockyeah, from what I've seen of examples it looks like it's great for developers13:45
kenvandineLaserJock, we just need to get implementations right13:45
kenvandinewhich i think we are close to in gwibber13:46
kenvandineit was a learning experience13:46
LaserJocksure13:46
kenvandinebut the tweaks we have made in the past week will make it significantly more effecient13:46
kenvandinemy gwibber-messages db was 418M13:46
kenvandinenow 78M13:46
LaserJockbut gwibber feels like a giant "learning experience", hopefully your hard work will help it mature13:46
kenvandineand when we start to purge old message data, it will get much smaller than that13:47
LaserJockyeah, I noticed that there was no option to set how many messages to keep13:47
Ngheh, my gwibber_messages is 211MB and my gwibber process is 729MB virt, 211MB RSS ;)13:47
Ngdoesn't bother me with 4GB though, and I'm sure it'll get sorted :)13:48
LaserJockI've got 1GB13:48
LaserJockand it's the largest single user of RAM13:48
LaserJockwhich seems odd for a "peripheral" application13:48
Ngmy firefox makes it look insignificant ;)13:48
kenvandineNg, gwibber or gwibber-service?13:49
kenvandinegwibber-service should be no where near 211M RSS13:49
Ngkenvandine: gwibber. gwibber service is 422MB/48MB13:49
kenvandineok13:49
kenvandinewhew13:50
pittitseliot: accepted13:50
kenvandinethat is the one we are most concerned with13:50
kenvandinethe client will be heavier because it has the UI stuff and webkit13:50
kenvandineand hopefully people will close it :)13:50
Ngyeah I never close it :D13:50
LaserJockwhy would I close it?13:50
NgI run like 4 apps and I never close them13:50
kenvandineLaserJock, you only need it open when you are looking at it :)13:51
* kenvandine always keeps it closed13:51
LaserJockI look at it all the time13:51
kenvandinei follow too many people to look at it all the time13:51
LaserJockyou know, what's the point of having a messaging service if you never read the messages :-)13:51
kenvandinei skim it from time to time13:51
tseliotpitti: thanks a lot13:51
NgI sometimes find it a little odd that -service notifies my of a reply, but the GUI doesn't show it yet13:52
LaserJockthe UI is so slow, I can't imagine reopening it every time13:53
Ngyeah that does take a while to start13:56
kenvandineLaserJock, how slow is it to start?  if the backend is running, mine is usually about 2 or 3 seconds13:56
kenvandineunless firefox and evolution are grinding my laptop to a halt... then it can be a little slower13:57
LaserJockI just counted 18s13:57
kenvandineyikes!13:57
Ngkenvandine: say, the entries I get in the message notifier when people have @'d me on identi.ca - those should be cleared when I focus gwibber because I have a Replies stream visible and I don't really want to go and click on 10 menu entries to clear them :)13:57
kenvandineand the backend was running?13:57
LaserJockkenvandine: I think so13:57
kenvandinedid you Gwibber-Quit or close?13:57
kenvandinegwibber->quit in the menu quits the backend too13:58
kenvandinebut even with that, it i have never seen it at 18s13:58
LaserJockno, just the close button13:58
LaserJockgwibber-service is still running13:58
Ngclosing the gwibber window (leaving gwibber-service running), then picking Broadcast from the messages menu produced a 7s load time, and that was the second time I tried it, so any cache involved should have been warm13:58
kenvandinei just did it 3 times, each was no more than 2s13:58
kenvandinehumm13:58
kenvandinei wonder if it is because my db is much leaner and meaner now :)13:59
kenvandinelets see how fast it is for you guys after the next release13:59
kikohi there13:59
LaserJockhow big is your db?13:59
kenvandinemine is 78M13:59
kenvandinebut compacted13:59
LaserJockmine is 68MB13:59
kenvandineso mine just has more messages, i think your's is still going to have more overhead because of the extra data and revisions14:00
Ngwhen will the new release land? :D14:00
kenvandineNg, i hope mid week14:00
Nggroovy14:00
Ngwhere should I file a bug about the broadcast entries in the message notification menu?14:01
LaserJockkenvandine: after the initial 18s one, I get consistent 12s start times14:01
kenvandineagainst the gwibber package14:01
Ngok, thanks14:01
kenvandineLaserJock, that is way too slow14:01
LaserJockit's about as fast is OO.o or FF14:02
LaserJockkenvandine: after killing gwibber-service (File-> Quit) start up time is ~ 55s14:03
LaserJockthat's why I start it once at the beginning of the day and leav it14:04
kenvandineLaserJock, what kind of hardware?14:04
kenvandineit isn't that slow for me on my slow netbook :/14:04
LaserJockacer aspire one14:04
kikohey14:04
kenvandinedoes it trash your CPU when it is doing that?14:04
kikohow do I mark lucid regressions?14:04
kikohttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/53863614:04
ubottuUbuntu bug 538636 in gnome-power-manager "gnome power manager applet not appearing consistently" [Undecided,New]14:04
kikothis one is absolutely a lucid regression14:04
kenvandineLaserJock, oh, that is a netbook huh?14:04
kenvandineLaserJock, with SSD?14:05
LaserJockkenvandine: no SSD14:05
LaserJockit is a netbook14:06
kenvandineok, humm14:06
LaserJockit's using a lot of CPU14:06
LaserJockis beam.smp related to gwibber?14:06
kenvandinethat is desktopcouch14:06
LaserJockthat uses a lot of CPU14:06
kenvandineok14:06
kenvandinei bet the new release will fix it quite a bit14:06
seb128kiko, which one?14:06
LaserJockmy load average was around 0.7 or so14:06
kenvandineLaserJock, a couple people had beam.smp thrashing CPU at startup and it seemed to be related to they extra data we were storing14:07
LaserJockbut I know for sure gwibber takes a lot more time than Chromium for instance14:07
seb128kiko, ignore that question, just reading log14:07
LaserJocklonger than OO.o I think as well14:07
kenvandineLaserJock, that makes me sad... :/14:07
kenvandinelets hope it gets fixed :)14:07
kenvandinestarting gwibber cold on my classmate is 12s14:08
kenvandineso no service and no couch running14:08
kenvandinebut only one account configured on it14:08
LaserJockkenvandine: it's not totally swamping the CPU, but there are a lot of processes all using a fair amount14:08
LaserJockI have 1 twitter and 1 identi.ca account14:08
kenvandinelets hope we can get yours in that ballpark :)14:08
LaserJockI tried Facebook but that was just too much14:08
LaserJockok, I look forward to trying the new release and I'll let you know if that improves things14:09
pittikenvandine: is there a known bug that I have g-p-m icon twice in the panel? One is actually gdm, the other does nothing on left click and gives me a standard applet menu on right click; "about" says "notification field 2.29.92.1", (c) 2002 Red Hat14:10
seb128pitti, another instance of this display bug?14:10
LaserJockkenvandine: Chromium takes 6 s and OO.o takes 11s, for reference14:10
kenvandinepitti, i haven't seen that... no14:11
seb128pitti, there is a "known" bug happening randomly where notification area of other applets get randomly wrongly displayed14:11
pittiseb128: sounds plausible14:12
seb128chrisccoulson get it quite often apparently14:12
pittikillall gnome-panel usually "fixes" it, but it happens randomly14:12
pittioh14:12
chrisccoulsonyes, i get that frequently14:12
pittiI think it might have been network-manager14:12
chrisccoulsonpitti - that's the same bug which affects nm-applet14:12
chrisccoulsonyes14:12
pitti(what it actually should have displayed)14:12
chrisccoulsoni've really got no idea how to debug this one at the moment14:13
seb128chrisccoulson, pitti: do you have any opinion on screen locking in indicator-session?14:13
seb128ted change it to be "start screensaver" now14:13
seb128in case where screensaver doesn't automatic lock the screen14:13
pittihmm14:13
seb128I'm leaning toward undoing the change for lucid14:13
pitticouldn't it actually just lock the screen?14:13
pittithat seems much more useful to me14:14
chrisccoulsoni thought it did actually just lock the screen14:14
seb128it could, but they argue that if you don't autolock on screensaver you might not know your password14:14
seb128and that users are using it as a "running away from the screen"14:14
pittiYAFIYGI?14:14
seb128not as a "lock the screen"14:14
seb128pitti, what? ;-)14:14
pitti"you asked for it, you got it"14:15
seb128ah right14:15
seb128but apparently some people don't realize what they ask for14:15
seb128and then complain ;-)14:15
pittiit seems much more useful to me to the majority of people who do know their password *shrug*14:15
chrisccoulsonbut the "autolock on screensaver" doesn't affect what the indicator does, does it?14:15
seb128ok, me too14:15
pittiseb128: I hope those people won't be able to file bugs either14:15
chrisccoulson(or did i miss something)14:15
seb128chrisccoulson, it does now14:15
seb128chrisccoulson, if you lock on screensaver it's "lock screen" now14:16
pittichrisccoulson: but not necessarily14:16
seb128otherwise it's "start screensaver"14:16
pittictrl+alt+L has always locked your screen regardless of the prefs, too14:16
seb128tedg make indicator-session read the key14:16
chrisccoulsonthat behaviour seems weird to me14:16
seb128same here14:16
seb128I was just collecting opinion before undoing the change14:16
seb128I undo it on the basis it has been done after freeze btw14:17
chrisccoulsonthe preference is specifically to control automatic locking when the screensaver activates14:17
pittiright14:17
seb128not just because I disagree with it14:17
pittibut that's not the same14:17
chrisccoulsonif i select the menu item in the indicator, i want the screen to lock regardless of the preference14:17
seb128same here14:17
pitti^ +114:17
seb128ok thanks pitti and chrisccoulson14:17
pittiseb128: thanks for sorting this14:17
seb128np14:17
seb128tedg, ^ for the record we have desktop team consensus on this one14:18
tedgHeh14:18
seb128tedg, but feel free to register an UDS spec for handling cases where users don't want to know about their password14:18
tedgseb128: Sure.14:18
tedgWhat about the case of switching users?  I think that should match the screensaver settings still.14:19
tedgIt's roughly the same.14:19
tedgSorry, same as idle.14:19
seb128I've no strong opinion about this one14:19
kikoseb128, so what do you think?14:19
seb128kiko, that I didn't read the bug because I don't work on gpm, but chrisccoulson might know better ;-)14:19
seb128kiko, we have a tag for regression though14:20
seb128it's potential-regression I think or something similar14:20
kikochrisccoulson, can you confirm?14:20
seb128to check with the qa team or on launchpad14:20
pittikiko, seb128: "regression-potential"14:20
kikothanks pitti14:20
pittide rien14:20
seb128tedg, user switch is tricky, I tend to agree usually you want the same14:21
chrisccoulsonkiko - your bug is not a gpm bug14:21
seb128tedg, I also tend to think we should be on the secure side by default14:21
kikochrisccoulson, ah?14:21
chrisccoulsonits indicator-application (and also a duplicate)14:21
chrisccoulsonit's tedg's bug ;)14:21
pittitedg, seb128: I think we should keep locking the screen on user switching, too14:21
seb128tedg, so I'm not sure, I would prefer to have some people annoyed than creating a security issues for some people14:22
pittiif not for anything else, then for keeping existing behaviour14:22
tedgpitti: Well, if nothing else -- it wasn't existing behavior until Thursday ;)14:22
* tedg fixed that bug14:22
pittiheh, ok14:22
tedgI think that it's roughly the same as idle.  It's the computer locking for you.14:22
kikochrisccoulson, tedg: can you guys help sort it out?14:22
chrisccoulsonif we make changes to the screen-locking behaviour, we should really discuss those with the security team too14:23
tedgkiko: Which bug?14:23
chrisccoulsonkiko / tedg - bug 52905214:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 529052 in indicator-application "Application Indicator causes Gnome Power fallback icon to show/hide on each refresh" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52905214:23
=== didrocks` is now known as didrocks
seb128tedg, well the behaviour was non consistant until previous week14:24
seb128ie switching in gdm was different than switching in the indicator14:24
seb128like "switch from"14:24
seb128and directly picking a name14:24
tedgI think they should be consistent now, it's because we didn't have the names in Karmic, so the name entries didn't get fixed.14:25
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
=== dobey_ is now known as dobey
pedro_kenvandine, hello, may you please look into bug 391912 ? I'm getting that at least 5 times per day and we're having more than 100 affected users14:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 391912 in pymsn "telepathy-butterfly crashed with ParseError in parse()" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39191214:33
baptistemmOh the fix is really really wanted ...14:34
baptistemmpedro_,what should I do to have permissions to edit importance properties of bugs ? at least just a few set I'm interested with.14:36
rickspencer3pedro_, so that bug was not targeted, milestoned, and it was set to Medium14:36
istazpedro_: we have a patch in papyon upstream that would probably fix it (the last one), if you are able to reproduce the issue could you maybe test it?14:36
rickspencer3by definition kenvandine would not work on it14:36
rickspencer3pedro_, I made it a release blocker and set it to beta 214:37
istazpedro_: and if not produce a log? (the 2 or 3 lines just before the error should be enough)14:37
seb128istaz, do you have the upstream bug reference?14:38
seb128or git14:38
istazhttp://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=papyon.git;a=commit;h=e7c2298acae3b68991c8bf11e049d2ef0da20f8814:39
seb128istaz, thanks14:39
seb128pedro_, ^ I will upload that to lucid let me know how it works for you14:39
pedro_baptistemm, you don't have those?, have a look into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl14:40
pedro_baptistemm, if you're working on an upstream project which have a project in launchpad just ping jcastro14:40
istazseb128: when is the limit date I should make a release before for lucid?14:41
pedro_seb128, will do it14:41
baptistemmI'm not particularly working on upstream but I'm following some yes14:41
seb128istaz, depends of the changes you have14:41
vuntz:w éé14:41
vuntzgah14:41
seb128hey vuntz ;-)14:41
pedro_salut vuntz14:41
baptistemmvuntz, : )14:41
vuntzyou saw my secret password!14:42
pittibonjour vuntz, comment vas-tu?14:42
seb128istaz, you still have around 3 weeks to fix bugs14:42
seb128istaz, but new versions the earlier the better14:42
istazvim commands as password, why didn't think of that14:42
seb128since we try to lower the number of changes when we get close from stable14:42
seb128ie we will only backport fixes worth it14:42
istazseb128: sure, but I still have a pile of works and branches to review :/14:43
istazok14:43
vuntzpitti: bien, j'ai pu embêter didrocks pendant une semaine !14:43
* pitti tries to make a clueful face, pretending that he understand any of that14:43
didrocksvuntz: et apprendre la date de release de 2.30.0 aussi :p14:44
vuntz:-)14:44
istazseb128: we are past feaure freeze already? because we have pending branch for file transfer in msn which still need some work14:44
seb128istaz, yes, month after that14:44
seb128I guess such changes will be for next cycle now14:44
istazguess that will be for lucid+1 then14:44
seb128I would like to get the http login change in lucid though14:45
seb128did that land already?14:45
istazseb128: I still need to review it but that can be done for the start of next week14:46
istazseb128: or the end of this one if you are really  in a hurry14:46
seb128istaz, beta2 freeze is midweek next week14:46
istazok14:46
nigelbseb128: if a gnome bug is fixed upstream, do you prefer it to be marked fix commented on LP so you can get the patches in?14:58
seb128yes14:58
nigelbokay :)14:58
seb128pedro_, istaz: git change uploads to lucid let's see how it goes14:59
seb128pedro_, do you have contacts in your list using the messenger web client?15:00
istazthanks15:00
seb128istaz, thank you!15:00
seb128istaz, you might want to close https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2255215:00
pedro_seb128, awesome!, thanks15:00
seb128if that's the same issue15:00
ubottuFreedesktop bug 22552 in pymsn "telepathy-butterfly crashed with ParseError in parse()" [Normal,New]15:00
pedro_seb128, yes i have a couple using that15:00
seb128pedro_, ok, so it's probably the same bug15:01
pedro_seb128, nice, will test and comment back to you guys15:01
seb128pedro_, you can maybe check by asking one to change status and see if it trigger the crash15:01
pedro_will do15:01
rickspencer3pitti, seb128 wow, we have quite some list of release blocking bugs for Lucid!15:03
istazseb128: yep15:03
seb128rickspencer3, right I was saying to pitti before the meeting on friday15:03
rickspencer33215:03
istazseb128: didn't notice it since it was filled again pymsn15:04
seb128istaz, sorry about that, it had been open a while ago15:04
seb128hum, where is mvo?15:06
seb128I got apt-get source ubuntu-mono doing "getting ubiquity source instead of ubuntu-mono"15:07
seb128wth?15:07
pochuubiquity rewritten in mono? :-)15:14
seb128lol15:15
seb128no, ubuntu rewriten in mono!15:15
seb128;-)15:15
pittiseb128: works fine here..15:16
kenvandinehaha15:16
seb128pitti, here too now, but I was in the middle of an apt-get update15:16
kenvandinerickspencer3's evil plan15:16
seb128pitti, I get the index was in a weird state or something15:16
cassidyseb128, istaz: we should probably re-assign all the pymsn lp bugs to papyon15:16
rickspencer3kenvandine, ?15:16
seb128cassidy, the issue for this one was the fdo bug, but right that too15:17
seb128cassidy, we should perhaps do it on fdo too15:17
kenvandineubuntu re-written in mono... boycottnovell would be so excited to hear that :)15:17
seb128;-)15:17
seb128rickspencer3, ubuntu-mono = ubuntu in mono15:17
istazcassidy: not really needed most of these bugs are outdated and if there were still valid they were reopened against papyon15:17
rickspencer3right15:17
seb128rickspencer3, well name is misleading it's an icon theme15:17
istazso we would just end up with a lot of dups15:17
rickspencer3the reason that Microsoft paid me to quit and work in open source15:18
istazand incomplete bugs15:18
cassidyistaz, your call :)15:18
seb128rickspencer3, the boycootnovell guys read clearly in your game and new it from the start!15:18
seb128knew15:18
rickspencer3I know15:18
rickspencer3I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those darn kids15:18
kenvandinethat was my first thought when i saw that package name... ubuntu-mono15:18
=== ArneGoet1e is now known as ArneGoetje
Keybukwhat will those boycottnovell folks do when Novell inevitably either goes under or gets bought out?  where will all their anger be redirected to?15:23
mdeslaurKeybuk: boycottcanonical15:24
Keybuklet's register that now, while we still can!15:24
mdeslaurwe should also register boycottboycottnovell :)15:24
Keybukboycottgit.com15:25
kklimondachrisccoulson: hey, do you have time to review my transmission update or should I look for another developer who isn't as tied up as you are? :)15:25
chrisccoulsonkklimonda, i will do that today15:25
chrisccoulsonsorry, i actually forgot about it ;)15:25
pittiKeybuk: boycottgit.com> unnecessary; it already does quite a fabulous job of not wanting people to use it :)15:26
Keybukit's certainly making no friends with me today15:26
rickspencer3seb128, pitti, pedro_ I broke out our release blockers into 3 chunks:15:27
rickspencer3https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Scratch/ReleaseBugs2010032215:27
rickspencer3thought I'd share if it helped15:27
kklimondathe boycottcanonical.com isn't that improbable - all we need is all the whiners to get some free time and they are going to launch it ;)15:27
rickspencer3that's as of the last time the chron job ran15:27
seb128rickspencer3, thanks15:28
pittirickspencer3: ah, it's cron'ed? using bug tags or so?15:28
rickspencer3pitti, yeah, bdmurray runs the json searches15:28
qensedjsiegel1: Are you aware that GMail (for Apps in my case) thinks your Canonical mail address may be hoaxy?15:28
pittirickspencer3: I was about to say that large wikified bug lists don't generally work that well; e. g. the last bug is already fixed15:28
rickspencer3pitti, here's one you might like: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-subscribed/canonical-desktop-team-subscribed-bug-tasks.json15:29
djsiegel1qense: no I am not aware of that15:29
rickspencer3every bug on every package that someone on teh desktop team is assigned to15:29
rickspencer3pitti, right, but I just did it for myself to see where the problem areas seem to be15:29
djsiegel1qense: but I did notice some odd behavior -- I tried sending an email from my gmail acct to my work email and it ended up in my personal inbox...15:29
rickspencer3thoguht I'd share since I did the work15:29
qensedjsiegel1: "Warning: This message may not be from the alleged person or organisation. Beware of following any links in it or of providing the sender with any personal information." It spammed bug mail from Launchpad you commeneted.15:29
djsiegel1qense: that is nuts15:30
pittirickspencer3: right, I've seen that list; it's very useful15:30
qensedjsiegel1: This could cause people to miss your comments15:30
djsiegel1qense: I realize15:30
rickspencer3pitti, without a cron job, you could never get a list like that15:30
djsiegel1qense: are you interested in running paper cuts project next cycle?15:30
rickspencer3well never == less than a few hours ;_15:30
djsiegel1qense: slash do you have plans to attend UDS?15:31
pedro_rickspencer3, thanks15:31
rickspencer3also that list shows how poorly performing by DictionaryGrid filtering and sorting code is :(15:31
qensedjsiegel1: I have applied for sponsorship, so I do have plans, but it depends on the people giving away the sponsorship. I would be glad to help running the papercut project, but I'm not so sure whether I would have enough time. I'm already writing on a blueprint for another project, Ubuntu Wanted, and if that would get accepted I'd have to spend a lot of time on it.15:33
rickspencer3seb128, pitti do you think it's feasible for us to fix all those release blockers this week?15:33
djsiegel1qense: would you mind sending me a copy of your UDS sponsor application and the details of Ubuntu Wanted?15:33
rickspencer3and by "us" I mean everyone but me ;)15:33
pittirickspencer3: no, I don't think so15:33
rickspencer3(not what I wanted to hear, obviously)15:34
rickspencer3pitti, ok, understood15:34
seb128rickspencer3, it''s probably not no15:34
rickspencer3seb128, pitti half?15:34
rickspencer3knock it down to 1015:34
seb128that should be possible yes15:34
pittiright, let's try15:35
qensedjsiegel1: I'm not sure how much I've saved on my computer of the sponsorship application, but I will be able to send you details on Ubuntu Wanted.15:35
chrisccoulsonhmmm, nautilus shows my 3G modem as having a CD drive15:39
pittichrisccoulson: most of those have a fake CD-ROM to ship Windows drivers15:39
pittichrisccoulson: that's where usb-modeswitch or modem-modeswitch come into play15:39
chrisccoulsonpitti - ah, i didn't realise it actually faked a CD drive15:39
chrisccoulsoni thought it was just a standard removable USB storage device15:40
pittino, it's totally useless under Linux15:40
chrisccoulsonam i meant to be able to use both components at the same time?15:40
=== debfx_ is now known as debfx
chrisccoulsoni can access the storage whilst i have a 3G connection15:41
pittichrisccoulson: might depend on the hardware15:41
chrisccoulsonmy hardware seems to let me do both :)15:41
seb128didrocks, btw I pushed my gtk changes15:57
seb128didrocks, and uploaded15:57
seb128didrocks, you might want to rebase your work15:57
didrocksseb128: ok, I'm still striking at activating introspection, got a FTBFS :/15:57
seb128didrocks, ok, how does it break?15:58
didrocksseb128: one sec, trying something as paste the error if it still fails15:58
seb128didrocks, you enable it on the shared lib build only right?15:59
didrocksseb128: there are 3 girs, (I --enable-introspection=yes, shouldn't I?)16:00
seb128didrocks, right, I was speaking about the build target in gtk16:01
seb128gtk is build several times16:01
seb128static build, directfb build16:01
seb128you don't want to build gir in those cases16:01
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|afk
didrocksI saw that, the issue come in directfb build (but it's maybe not the issue as it can be the first)16:02
didrocksok, so, let's try to activate it only on shared lib build16:02
seb128you only need to build it once16:02
seb128so put it only in the shared configure options16:03
seb128I'm away for ~15minutes, let me know how it goes and I will read that when I'm back16:03
didrockswill do, thanks16:03
seb128ok, time for a small break16:07
tseliotpitti: shall I take care of the fglrx handler now (and upload whenever you're ok with it) and work on the "prevent Jockey from removing packages and just switch between alternatives instead" feature in a (future and) separate upload?16:27
pittitseliot: sounds good; the former should be a trivial change, right?16:27
pittitseliot: can you just commit that one to trunk for now?16:27
pittitseliot: there's something else I want to work on in the next days, and the change is not that urgent (since there are transitional packages)16:28
tseliotpitti: yes, it's a small diff: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/399372/16:28
tseliotand I would commit it in lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/jockey/ubuntu16:29
pittiok16:29
pittitseliot: I'm still not that convinced taht this shouldn't ever uninstall packages, though16:29
pittiif you switch back to the free driver, you'd still keep the dkms overhead around, not even mentioning the fact that some people want to actually remove the non-free bits for political reasons16:30
tseliotpitti: I see the current scenario: you can install as many drivers as you like (especially if you switch between free drivers quite often) and switch between them without having to uninstall and reinstall things every time.16:31
tseliotthe more you install, the more modules you will have to rebuild16:31
tseliotof course ;)16:31
pittitseliot: yes, but you can do that today, too16:31
pittitseliot: the driver isn't uninstalled if you enable a different driver16:32
pittiit's just unisntalled if you explicitly disable a driver16:32
tseliotpitti: yes, by manually installing all of the drivers and by switching between drivers by doing the following things: 1) use update-alternatives 2) call ldconfig 3) update the initramfs 4) change your xorg.conf16:33
pittialso, it's not like people would switch drivers twice a day or so -- they might do that twice a year after an upgrade16:33
tseliot(not exactly easy, even if documented)16:33
tseliotthat's a good point too16:33
pittitseliot: no, I mean in the GUI; disable() is only called if you click "Deactivate", not if you activate a different driver version16:33
tseliotpitti: I guess that worked because packages could conflict/replace/provide with each other16:35
pitticorrect16:35
tseliotso it's really a non-issue then16:35
pittiin previous releases enabling version 180 automatically removed version 9616:35
tseliotright, I forgot about the logic, even though I worked on it ;)16:36
tseliotand this means less work for me :-) . So I'll only commit the fglrx enablement code16:37
tseliotpitti: BTW people keep contacting me asking about an ETA for fglrx support in Jockey. I'm really glad to see that Jockey has become so popular :-)16:39
pitti:)16:59
seb128pitti, I just cc-ed you on a gnome-menus bug17:20
seb128pitti, we should probably not translate Icon=17:20
=== MacSlow|afk is now known as MacSlow
solidslashhello, i've got a question - where exactly is a piece of code that would let me get rid of the little 'back history' and 'forward history' arrows in nautilus? is it in nautilus-navigation-action.c ? where exactly?17:40
tgpraveen12solidslash: it would be better to ask in a channel for nautilus17:42
solidslashis there one?17:42
ccheney`new OOo uploads only require me to upload 4MB now instead of 186MB :) goes much faster17:43
Nafaisolidslash: Probably on irc.gimp.net, many gnome related dev channels are there17:44
solidslashthanks17:44
pittiseb128: oh, do we?17:47
seb128pitti, we do translate those yes, and it leads to some bug apparently when the icon name matching a string in the software17:48
pitticcheney`: ah, thanks for the OO.o upload; I didn't see any LP refs in the changelog, does that include the pending patches? (arm FTBFS, bug 516727, etc.)17:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 516727 in update-manager "breaks dist-upgrade: E: Couldn't configure pre-depend openoffice.org-core for openoffice.org-filter-binfilter, probably a dependency cycle." [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51672717:50
ccheney`pitti: includes arm patch, i forgot to note, i think it fixes 516727 but not completely sure it does so without any other breakage, as the pre-depends was needed so also didn't write a closes for it in it17:59
ccheney`pitti: silbs is going to see if it works ok for the office and let me know17:59
seb128istaz, do you know about bug #19449417:59
seb128?17:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 194494 in pymsn "telepathy-butterfly crashed with NotImplementedError in _on_error()" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19449417:59
pitticcheney`: thanks18:01
istazseb128: yup commented three times on it, but wasn't able to find what caused it, haven't been able to take a real look at it since logs have been provided though18:02
istazOlivier Le Thanh Duong on the bug is me18:02
seb128istaz, I know who you are, sorry the question was not clear ;-)18:03
ccheney`pitti: i didn't fix any other issues with this upload though to get the potential fix for the upgrade problem resolved, will be doing another upload sometime before beta 2 freeze18:03
seb128istaz, I was wondering if there was any news about this issue or if the patch from jonny on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16945 was likely to fix the issue or is a different one18:03
ubottuFreedesktop bug 16945 in papyon "telepathy-butterfly crashed with NotImplementedError in _on_error()" [Critical,New]18:03
seb128rickspencer3, pitti: any opinion on bug #543356 priority, ie is that something we care about enough to put in on the lucid list?18:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 543356 in gnome-codec-install "Can't install gstreamer0.10-fluendo mp3 plugin from the interface" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54335618:04
istazseb128: it's the same issue, but this is not a patch to fix the issue but to provide more debug logs to locate it18:04
seb128istaz, ok, so me getting the patch in lucid might help to fix it?18:05
didrockspitti: I guess the gdm issue I get is because gconftools take its path regarding the uid and not the euid: stupid code for testing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/399443/, result with id and shutdown command: http://paste.ubuntu.com/399442/.18:05
pittiseb128: hm, at first sight it seems simple to fix18:05
istazyes that's a nice idea actually18:05
pittididrocks: perhaps set both effective and real uid? seems safer anyway18:06
didrockspitti: as you can see when you'll have some time, I tried to override HOME as well, and it does nothing.18:06
seb128istaz, ok, will do that, thank you18:06
didrockspitti: well, I was pondering about that, no side effect to change real uid as well?18:06
pittididrocks: no, it's generally safer to set both with setresuid()18:08
didrockspitti: ok, testing that18:08
pittididrocks: oh, btw18:09
=== MenZa_ is now known as MenZa
didrockspitti: at least, it taking the right one now :) thanks!18:09
pittisetenv("HOME", "/var/lib/gdm/", 1);18:09
didrockspitti: yeah?18:09
didrockspitti: it was just for testing18:09
pittididrocks: please use pwent->pw_dir instead of hardcoding18:09
pittiok18:09
didrockspitti: sure, it was just for testing if it won't take /root/… as HOME18:09
pittididrocks: if nothing else helps, this is a more robust approach:18:10
pitti1. fork()18:10
pitti2. in the parent, wait()18:10
pitti3. in the child, setuid(pwent)18:10
pittithis sets effective, real, file, and saved uid all at once, but can't be reversed any more18:10
pittiand it avoids changing $HOME for the main program18:10
pittididrocks: otherwise you also have to save and restore $HOME18:11
didrockspitti: sure, I'm just at least trying to make work this silly program to find a good way for communicating with gdm (still have new issue now that setresuid works), but I'm crossing my finger to find a proper way18:12
pittiand third, regardless of how badly the child screws up, you don't jeopardize the gdm daemon18:12
rickspencer3seb128, yes, this seems like terrible attention to detail18:13
didrockspitti: sure, I will make a lot of test to not block the parent on that18:13
didrocksthe issue is clearly about changing user, all works with sudo -u gdm … so root -> gdm makes something bad18:16
pittididrocks: oh, and you should also change the gid, of course18:18
seb128time for sport and dinner18:18
seb128bbl18:18
pitti(first setgid, then setuid; or, without fork(), setresgid, then setresuid)18:18
pittiseb128: enjoy!18:18
didrockspitti: do you think this is mandatory for gcontool call?18:19
seb128pitti, thanks18:19
didrocksseb128: enjoy :)18:19
seb128didrocks, thanks18:19
pittididrocks: if it writes any file, yes18:19
didrockspitti: oh sure, didn't think about that18:19
pittididrocks: otherwise you'll end up with gdm:root files18:19
didrocksright18:19
didrockswell, still an issue, time to get some dinner for a break before retrying this18:21
=== gord is now known as gord|afk
pittiafter three hours, /me now thinks that he finally understands bug 46032818:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 460328 in gnome-settings-daemon "Wrong keyboard settings when console-settings has multiple layouts" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/46032818:35
pittibut fixing is for tomorrow, Taekwondo o'clock now18:35
pittihave a nice evening everyone!18:35
highvoltagehi! How do I do a plymouth dry-run to test a theme?18:45
jonohey all18:47
jonoI would like to provide a means for my app to add a PPA to someone's system, is there a python API for doing this?18:48
qensejono: You could see whether software-properties provides an importable implementation of the PPA adding support it is using.18:50
qenseaquarius: When I pressed browse in the Ubuntu One musicstore I got directed to the 7Digitial home page. Could that be related to the fact that ubuntuone-syncdaemon keeps raising Apport error messages and that Ubuntu One isn't properly working on my system?18:50
aquariusqense, that's a known bug :(18:51
aquariusqense, please avoid pressing browse for now...18:51
qenseok, I will avoid Browse then18:52
qensethanks!18:52
tedgjono: There might be an apt-daemon API to do this.18:52
tedgjono: You can just use the command line.18:52
tedgjono: add-apt-repostory ppa:~ted/ppa18:53
qenseof course! I forgot.  apt-daemon is probably the best way to do so.18:53
jonotedg, I know I could use subprocess, but I was hoping to avoid that :-)18:53
qenseIt could even be that it launches the PolicyKit dialogue by itself, but I'm not sure about that.18:53
tedgjono: Seems like org.debian.apt.AddRepository probably does what you want.18:54
qensejono: If you're looking for a snippet, Software Centre is probably the correct place since it should be capable of activating/adding PPAs.18:55
jonoqense, a snippet would be awesome18:55
jonoI just want to make setting up python-snippets-daily a one-click affair18:55
qenseMaybe Quickly could help with that... Bazaar is one big Python library, after all.18:56
qenseaquarius: By the way, I wish you success with handling the floodgates of madness that have been opened by enabling the music store. Maybe we should plan a Bug Day for the music store in the near future?19:00
aquariusqense, perhaps so, indeed. I'll see what sorts of bugs we get19:00
qenseok19:00
qenseIf you need any help with setting up such a bug day, feel free to ping me!19:01
tedgjono: I think it would be interesting to provide a way to have a generic application called "megaphone" that would work with PPAs that updated regularly and announce them.  So you could have something like Marin's font of the week, and when it gets installed you get a notification of it.  Obviously it wouldn't work with security updates, but for extra things you want to get excited about.  Haven't had time to write it though :(19:01
aquariusI will do, definitely :)19:01
* tedg needs minions. Anyone know an aging evil dictator that I can impersonate?19:02
jonotedg, indeed :)19:03
didrocks\o/ GDM has been *finally* defeated! we can change a gconf key now on the server side19:22
kenvandinedidrocks, yay!19:40
=== gord|afk is now known as gord
rickspencer3didrocks, congrats20:30
seb128didrocks, congrats (just joined so I don't know about what :p)20:30
didrocksseb128: heh thanks ;) finally defeated the gdm/gconftool mess :)20:31
didrocksseb128: I'm refactoring the get/set code now and will probably finish tomorrow morning so that we can easily that different values later20:31
didrocksseb128: already back from sport?20:31
* seb128 hugs didrocks20:32
seb128didrocks, how did you fix it?20:32
seb128didrocks, "already", I was away 2 hours20:32
* didrocks hugs seb128 back20:32
seb128I didn't eat or take my shower yet though20:32
seb128just passing by and checking everything is already before doing that20:33
didrocksseb128: setting real uid/gid as well as effective uid/gid + home dir and --direct :) (dbus-launch spawn some processes without closing them)20:33
didrocksseb128: oh ok, enjoy your dinner then :)20:34
seb128didrocks, ok20:34
seb128didrocks, thanks20:34
didrocksok, the get part is working after refactoring to take any value of any type. Will do the same for the set part tomorrow, time to enjoy the evening :)20:52
* didrocks waves goodbye20:52
seb128didrocks, have fun, see you tomorrow20:53
didrocksseb128: thanks, have a good night20:53
rickspencer3didrocks, great job on GDM, congrats again!21:00
kenvandinerickspencer3, how long did it take to get your song downloaded?21:07
rickspencer3kenvandine, hard to say21:07
rickspencer3it was pretty much instantaneous21:07
rickspencer3I looked around for it on my hardrive and couldn't find it21:08
rickspencer3then I thought to look in Library, and it was already there21:08
kenvandinegreat21:08
kenvandine:)21:08
kenvandinedon't expect it to always be that fast :)21:08
rickspencer3kenvandine, have there been issues?21:08
kenvandinewell, when the download daemon was broken it took until someone kicked it manually :)21:09
kenvandinebut it should start pretty quickly21:09
rickspencer3hehe21:09
kenvandineit will depend on how many people are downloading at any given time21:09
rickspencer3kenvandine, is it fixed now?21:09
kenvandineyup!21:09
rickspencer3makes sense21:09
kenvandineit gets queued up in the cloud to download21:09
kenvandineso if you are the only shopper it should be real fast21:09
rickspencer3U1 music store + iPod/iPhone support = main stream product21:09
rickspencer3!21:09
kenvandine~/.ubuntuone/Purchased\ from\ Ubuntu\ One/21:09
kenvandinewoot!21:09
rickspencer3kenvandine, right, but users should drag out of RB I assume, right?21:10
kenvandinerickspencer3, i know, amazing huh?21:10
kenvandinethey should just trust RB knows :)21:10
kenvandineyeah, RB knows where they are21:10
rickspencer3but I mean if you wanted to back it up outside of U121:10
rickspencer3copy it wherever you want, etc...21:11
rickspencer3we tell users to drag from RB, right?21:11
kenvandineyup21:12
rickspencer3nice too see so much Grateful Dead in the store21:12
kenvandinehehe21:12
kenvandine:)21:12
rickspencer3now it has credibility21:12
* kenvandine still doesn't picture rickspencer3 as a dead head21:12
rickspencer3I have to wonder why they bother with other bands, really21:12
LaserJockso how do you go from Ubuntu One/RB to iPod?21:15
seb128dnd21:19
* kenvandine doesn't have an ipod... but i would imagine just drag the music to the ipod21:19
kenvandinethat is what i did on my G121:20
kenvandineLaserJock, the U1 music just syncs to RB21:20
kenvandineso once it is in your library it behaves the same as any other music21:20
LaserJockkenvandine: right, but I've never been able to get music from RB to iPod21:20
kenvandineDRM free :)21:20
* kenvandine can't help there21:20
LaserJockas far as I know RB is read-only for iPods21:21
kenvandineoh... actually i did do that21:21
kenvandinemy daughter's ipod21:21
kenvandineshe syncs it from rb21:21
LaserJockI was hoping somebody would do something simple-scan'esqe for iPods :-)21:21
kenvandineshe is 7... she figured it out :)21:21
kenvandinei plugged it in for her the first time, that was about it21:21
LaserJockhmm21:21
kenvandineher's is old though21:22
LaserJockI spent 2 days trying to get it to work21:22
kenvandineold nano21:22
seb128LaserJock, dnd to ipod works fine21:22
LaserJockmine is from 200621:22
seb128LaserJock, I'm doing that for several years21:22
seb128in rhythmbox21:22
kenvandinei plugged it in for her and it just worked... it was nice to see that considering i installed lucid for her at the same time we gave her the old ipod :)21:23
seb128rhythmbox works with pretty much all ipods21:23
seb128up to the most recent nano and touch and iphones21:24
LaserJockdoesn't seem to work here21:28
LaserJockI rarely us drag-n-drop so maybe I'm doing it wrong21:29
seb128it's easy21:29
seb128click on something with the left mouse button21:29
seb128keep the button press21:29
seb128go over where you want to drop21:29
seb128stop clicking21:29
LaserJockok, did that, but it just falls back to where it was21:30
seb128you can dnd a song, album, artist over the ipod device21:30
seb128what do you try to dnd and where?21:30
TheMusopitti: re bug 528524 I personally don't know where to start in debugging this unfortunately, my skills with PA don't extend that far. :)21:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 528524 in pulseaudio "Sound not working in all apps on dove" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52852421:30
seb128you need to dnd over the ipod icon in the sidebar21:30
LaserJockseb128: I was wanting to send a playlist21:31
LaserJockthat doesn't seem to work21:31
LaserJockbut I think maybe I got a song over there21:31
seb128not sure if playlist copies work21:31
seb128I never do that21:31
seb128I usually dnd albums there21:31
LaserJockI need playlists to be able to find music instead of podcasts21:32
LaserJockthe whole music thing is an awful mess for me21:33
LaserJockI finally gave up and installed iTunes on a Windows 7 partition (yeah, that desperate)21:33
LaserJockok, so it seems I can do individual songs and albums in RB, that's something anyway21:35
LaserJockI would never have guessed to try drag-n-drop21:35
rickspencer3fudge21:35
rickspencer3I got that Messaging Menu -> Xchat crash again21:35
Nafai:(21:35
rickspencer3but apport won't le me log the bug'21:35
rickspencer3plymouth version was out of date :(21:36
NafaiI just bought my first track via Rhythmbox!21:37
NafaiAnd, no, I won't share which track :)21:38
ccheney`rickspencer3: cc'd you on the email to stefan21:42
rickspencer3thanks ccheney`21:43
=== ccheney` is now known as ccheney
seb128Nafai, hey21:44
NafaiHi seb12821:44
seb128Nafai, any news about those bugs you work on?21:44
seb128Nafai, I don't think I've seen any update from you in 10 days now :-(21:44
Nafaiseb128: brb, need to reboot and then we can discuss this so I can make significant progress now that I've got a lot of stuff out of my way21:46
seb128ok21:47
seb128rickspencer3, any though on things like bug #533520?21:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 533520 in vino "Unreadable hint in Remote Desktop Preferences" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53352021:47
* rickspencer3 looks21:47
seb128rickspencer3, I'm not sure if we should consider it as a lucid blocker or not, it's cosmetic but is also the sort of issues users will easily notice21:48
rickspencer3does not seem like a blocker, but I am looking21:48
seb128rickspencer3, see screenshot in comment #221:49
rickspencer3it's a bit hard to read, but not impossible21:49
seb128comment #3 rather21:49
rickspencer3seems appropriately set to me21:49
seb128ok, thanks21:49
seb128I was just not sure how much we care about "looking good"21:49
rickspencer3I would ship like this, but might be good for "top bugs"21:49
rickspencer3seb128, of course we care, but hold up release? probably not21:50
seb128right, that was my though21:50
rickspencer3also, the fix is probably trivial enough that we could SRU it21:50
seb128right we can probably easily workaround21:50
seb128the proper fix would be to port the widget ot a gtkinfobar21:51
seb128hey robert_ancell21:51
robert_ancellseb128, hello21:51
seb128robert_ancell, how are you?21:51
robert_ancellseb128, good21:51
robert_ancellseb128, oh, I got a friend to install UNR on his EEE (he likes it more than the standard EEE image).  He didn't have enough space left though so I played the how many packages can I remove.  Long story short, I'm planning to go into battle next cycle and convince you splitting gnome-utils is a good idea :)21:56
seb128I think we have other issues to deal with that fighting to be able to remove the screenshooter21:58
seb128or the log viewer21:58
seb128but yeah, let's see how this discussion goes :p21:58
robert_ancellbring it on!21:58
LaserJockfight! fight! fight!21:58
* LaserJock grabs some popcorn21:58
robert_ancellLaserJock, you have to wait for UDS.  Then there'll be real blood.  Got my flights booked yesterday :)21:59
seb128how much disk space did he have?21:59
seb128the lower ssd I could get on the dell mini was 8G21:59
seb128which is twice an ubuntu standard install21:59
robert_ancellseb128, afterwards 900M.  Didn't check before but it was probably about 300M21:59
robert_ancellseb128, the install came down to 2.4G after removing as much as I dared22:00
rickspencer3RAOF, hi22:00
seb128I would argue it's a corner case22:00
seb128you can't even buy a disk under 8G nowadays22:00
RAOFrickspencer3: Good morning.22:00
robert_ancellseb128, I would argue it's a bad user experience22:00
seb128right, for how many users?22:00
robert_ancellseb128, enough22:00
seb128we better spend time on making the system boot faster or looks better22:00
seb128than benefit higher number of users than those who don't have 5G of disk22:01
robert_ancellseb128, well, I'll probably end up doing while flying somewhere.  That's what I did last time...22:01
seb128I'm not sure I will let that one go in though :p22:01
seb128I dislike the explosion of binaries22:01
robert_ancellseb128, and you know I'll keep arguing so we'll waste more time arguing it that just doing it! ;)22:01
seb128it makes apt indexer harder to deal with22:02
seb128each apt-get update run slower22:02
seb128package management tools slower22:02
robert_ancellseb128, meh.  It's one package we're talking about... And then all the default installed packages behave sane22:03
seb128gnome-media?22:04
seb128gnome-applets?22:04
seb128gnome-panel?22:04
robert_ancellseb128, hmm22:05
robert_ancellthough I only consider gnome-media a good candidate there22:05
seb128I just fail to see why users would care about uninstalling a tiny binary22:05
robert_ancellseb128, it's not the binary, it's more the .desktop file22:07
seb128they can edit the menu if they don't want them there ;-)22:07
robert_ancellseb128, that's not logical22:08
robert_ancellthere's no logical connection between the screenshot tool and the dictionary22:08
robert_ancellwe expose upstream development policy to users which is bad22:09
seb128there is no logic connection between cp and ls22:09
robert_ancellseb128, they're power tools22:09
seb128I hope you don't plan to split every binary in its own package :p22:09
robert_ancellI don't think there are a lot of other cases.  It's only projects in an umbrella organisation like GNOME that mix applications into one tarball22:10
dyekHi! Can Ubuntu desktop (karmic) be setup to do xdmcp easily?22:10
seb128dyek, hi, user questions go on #ubuntu but I don't think so no22:10
dyekseb128: OK! Thanks!22:11
seb128robert_ancell, well I sort of see your point, I just feel we have other issues to work on which would better benefit users22:11
seb128robert_ancell, if you really care about that I guess just do the change that will be easier than arguing ;-)22:11
seb128robert_ancell, you would make an higher number of user happy by improving gdmsetup for example than doing that during the same time though ;-)22:11
robert_ancellseb128, It will make me happy :)22:13
Nafaiseb128: ok, back.  I admit all I've got done (visible progress) is adding some logging to notify-osd which I intend to use for debugging things like the rhythmbox issues.  Been bad especially the last few days dealing with interruptions (paperwork, contracts, dr appts and such), but I'm ready to give full attention22:13
seb128Nafai, hey, no need to justify just tell me if you are not able to work on those so we can dispatch elsewhere and get them done for lucid22:13
robert_ancelldidrocks, oh, did anything happen about gdmsetup?22:13
seb128Nafai, ok good22:14
Nafaiseb128: Sure thing, I'll let you know as soon as tomorrow what I anticipate22:14
seb128robert_ancell, he's refactoring the changes apparently and got it working22:14
seb128Nafai, thanks22:14
seb128robert_ancell, writting to other users gconf config is no fun22:14
robert_ancellseb128, sweet!22:14
seb128I hope gsettings will fix that22:15
robert_ancellseb128, yeah, I've tried and failed at that a few times...22:15
robert_ancellseb128, yes, I was going to ask the same thing.  Perhaps we should raise that in case it hasn't been considered22:15
Nafaiseb128: which is higher priority bug #451086 or bug #497883 -- I'm guessing the former because it is a bug in an existing feature, the other is a new feature (I just need to respond to Ken's reports/feeedback)22:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 451086 in hundredpapercuts "Rhythmbox Notification Bubble shows wrong cover art" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45108622:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 497883 in vino "Support Application Indicators" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49788322:16
seb128Nafai, right, I think it's too late now for a new feature, ie to do the vino change22:16
* Nafai nods22:16
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew_
=== bjf is now known as bjf-afk

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