[00:03] Claudinux: i have a python script that looks for some known issues [00:03] wget http://people.ubuntu.com/~duanedesign/ubuntuone-client-diagnose.py [00:04] then run it with [00:04] python ubuntuone-client-diagnose.py [00:08] duanedesign, can i paste here the result? [00:08] paste.ubuntu.com [00:09] Claudinux: paste them there and after you hit the paste button the page it generates, post that address here [00:10] duanedesign, http://paste.ubuntu.com/399030/ [00:17] Claudinux: ok lets take a look at your ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log [00:17] Claudinux: could you paste that at paste.ubuntu.com [00:21] duanedesign, http://paste.ubuntu.com/399033/ [00:34] Claudinux: do you use a proxy? [00:35] duanedesign, no, i use a UMTS internet key [00:35] it looks like its not connecting [00:37] duanedesign, so, any way to solve this issue? [00:38] Claudinux: It would be better if we filed a bug. The Ubuntu ONe devs come in tommorrow and they will more than likely be able to help you, [00:40] Claudinux: you are on Lucid. Are you using the version of Ubuntu One out of the repository or do you have one of the PPA's [00:41] duanedesign, i'm using default ubuntuone version installed on lucid beta1 [00:41] ok [00:41] Claudinux: and um the problem is that selecting connect crashes the Ubuntu One [00:43] duanedesign, I've a crash when i try to open ubuntuone-client [00:47] Claudinux: throught the /Me Menu/ you select Ubuntu One and it crashes? [00:47] Claudinux: I am filling a bug for you [00:50] Claudinux: what do you get when you try and lauch ubuntuone from the Terminal the command. [00:50] /usr/bin/ubuntuone-preferences [00:54] duanedesign, that command now open a window «ubuntuone preferences» but without any information on my account [00:54] Claudinux: ok [00:54] sometimes i have a crash [00:54] open a browser [00:55] ok [00:57] one.ubuntu.com/account/machines [00:57] ok [00:58] i've opened the page duanedesign [00:58] can you add your computere htere [00:58] there [00:58] no, I can only remove added machines [00:59] ok [01:00] run the command [01:00] sudo apt-get install ubuntuone-client-tools [01:01] After that installs run the following in the Terminal: [01:01] u1sync --authorize [01:01] The webpage will come up asking you to login then it should ask you to add your computer. [01:03] duanedesign, great...it works :D [01:03] ok good [01:03] :) [01:04] thanks duanedesign :) [01:04] Claudinux: if you get any of those crashes coe back and we will look at that [01:05] ok duanedesign i'll do that [01:05] :) [01:36] when i launch ubuntuone i get an "!" in the icon when i left click, it crashes and i get a bug report window [01:37] i tried this in 9.10 and beta of 10.04 [01:37] which are you using now? [01:38] coop: 10.04? [01:38] 9.10 [01:39] coop: ok [01:39] coop: do you have anything in the file ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon-exceptions.log [01:39] duanedesign: works on one machine, not this one? I completely uninstalled and reinstalled [01:41] duanedesign: unexpected error; then KEY ERROR [01:43] coop: could paste the file at http://paste.ubuntu.com [01:43] after hitting the paste button, you will post the address from the page it generates with your post [01:44] http://paste.ubuntu.com/399068/ [01:45] coop: ok [01:46] coop: strange you are the third person with that bug today [01:46] good news is we can fix it [01:46] duanedesign: total faith in u :) [01:47] duanedesign: can u fix it right now? [01:47] :) [01:47] duanedesign: do u have a link to the bug? [01:48] yes [01:48] and yes [01:48] :) [01:50] have to admit http://paste.ubuntu.com is an AWESOME little tool? [01:51] duanedesign: would u mind posting that link? [01:51] yeah i was just working out the command to remove the corrupted metadata [01:51] rm ~/.local/share/ubuntuone/syncdaemon/vm/shares/2/1/7/21702da2-9084-4ed7-812b-65d674118e4b [01:51] you will quit ubuntnu one first [01:52] then run [01:52] u1sdtool -q [01:52] in the Terminal that will quit the syncdaemon [01:52] then the 'rm' command [01:52] U1 will regenerate the metadata when you restart [01:52] ill get the link... [01:53] coop: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/506559 [01:53] Ubuntu bug 506559 in ubuntuone-client "Syncdaemon KeyError: Client opens apport whenever I click on the applet" [Low,Confirmed] [01:54] that should fix you up === Bubulle_ is now known as leagris === mthaddon` is now known as mthaddon === leagris is now known as Pillowtester [09:23] * Pillowtester is away: busy sleeping [09:58] are there any plans for getting bookmarks at u1-webpage? [11:19] espen77: hello [11:22] espen77: are you asking about a page at one.ubuntu.com where you can view your firefox bookmarks? === teknico is now known as teknico_away === teknico_away is now known as teknico === sandy is now known as Guest85962 [14:22] bug 535599 [14:22] Launchpad bug 535599 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu One Doesn't Upload; KeyError: 'Incorrect In State'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535599 [14:24] Damn, this is some good coffee. [14:24] So good, I don't even mind netsplits. [14:28] CardinalFang: haha. That must be good coffee [14:29] I'm 35 years old, and just discovering it. I tried terrible coffee all my life. I just found out there is good stuff. === dobey_ is now known as dobey [14:31] rye: if you have time today could you look at the bug i posted^^^^. The user came in over the weekend and I was unable to solve his problem. [14:35] * Pillowtester is away: Occupée === Pillowtester is now known as leagris [14:35] incorrect in state... hm, something rings a bell [14:35] * rye will reboot now to collect some logs as per syncdaemon speed, will return in couple of minutes [15:03] if someone deletes their token in the new version of Ubuntu One (in Lucid) Does opening Ubuntu One preferences from the 'Me Menu' open the web page to prompt the user to add their computer [15:17] duanedesign, mine did [15:17] duanedesign, but couchdb replication for new users is definitely broken :( [15:24] rye: ok, wanted to make sure. Need to set aside some time today to fix mine. hard to provide support when you cant test, reproduce issues, etc. [15:24] duanedesign, need one more reboot now and then I will start being frendly :) [15:42] hello, is there a fuse or kernel fs for ubuntuone? [15:44] leagris, hello, no, sync is performed by a client app only [15:44] rye, no webdav or rsync? [15:45] leagris, no, at this time these features are not planned === Guest85962 is now known as sandy|lurk [15:45] though I believe that webdav is something that I'd like to see as well [15:59] thank you rye [16:00] rye, yes, webdav, caldav would be very usefull [16:07] hi [16:11] gabrielgal22: hello [16:11] hi [16:19] how can I see files in your ubuntu account? [16:19] only by specific sharing? [16:21] gabrielgal22, we let one share folders with specific people, or single files with the anonymous public. [16:40] follow sil [16:41] oops wrong window [16:41] Ha. [17:00] fsm-cache: hit=6775 miss=12086 - What do the hit an miss stand for? [17:01] nessita, ^ [17:01] duanedesign, let's try to fix your couchdb? [17:01] ok :) [17:01] duanedesign, first of all, you have \n's in your pid file, right? [17:02] rye: yes. Deleting the file results in the file being recreates with the /ns [17:03] there are several bug reports because it affects several apps [17:03] none have much info though [17:05] bug 530541 [17:05] Launchpad bug 530541 in desktopcouch "desktopcouch-service crashed with RuntimeError in run_couchdb()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530541 [17:08] duanedesign, what's the couchdb-bin version? === ax_ is now known as ax [17:09] duanedesign, second question - you seem to be running system-wide couchdb, could you please check what happens when you turn that off? [17:11] kk [17:11] couchdb 0.10.0-1ubuntu [17:12] duanedesign, 0.10.0-1ubuntu2 [17:12] ? [17:12] let me widen the terminal and do that again :P [17:12] duanedesign, more, is there anything in ~/.cache/desktop-couch/desktop-couchdb.stdout [17:12] :) [17:12] couchdb 0.10.0-1ubuntu2 [17:12] duanedesign, ok, I am not able to say "Hey, upgrade to a newer version, really, really!" [17:13] duanedesign, now about system wide thingie and the stdout stuff [17:14] ok. what is system-wide couchdb? [17:15] * CardinalFang hugs rye. [17:15] duanedesign, well, I am afraid to tell you ,, but it looks like you have one [17:15] rye: i mean why is it starting? [17:16] instead of the peruser instance [17:16] duanedesign, ps aux | grep [c]ouchdb | pastebinit [17:16] duanedesign, you have both [17:16] duanedesign, I believe [17:16] CardinalFang, whaaaat? I am just hitting random targets using random-sized bullets :) [17:17] rye: yes i have seen both [17:17] duanedesign, pkg couchdb-bin = binaries to be used any way anyone wants . pkg couchdb = config files that start system service at boot time [17:18] We depend on 'couchdb-bin' only. [17:18] CardinalFang, duanedesign, but I believe we can shut down the system-wide instance first, try to restart the desktopcouch and see whether it breaks, right? [17:19] Yeah. $ sudo /etc/init.d/couchdb stop # I think [17:20] Though, after that, $ sudo killall beam beam.smp # Not sure init files terminate all daemons. [17:21] CardinalFang, that would kill all erlang processes, both system-wide and user-wide [17:21] user-wide, awesome [17:22] duanedesign, kill them all, and desktopcouch service as well [17:23] ok [17:24] rye: ok [17:24] ok [17:24] there quit [17:24] rye, duanedesign, line 125 of desktopcouch/start_local_couchdb.py , we loop several times, trying to get a PID to use. I want to know if a much longer wait will find it. [17:24] I have to go AFK right now. [17:24] CardinalFang: thank you [17:25] CardinalFang, but it looks like it does not want to write pid no matter how long we are waiting for it... well, we'll test :) [17:25] rye: i did notice the system wide couch instance seemed to be working [17:25] Do you think you can talk duanedesign through adding a few more timeout durations, rye? [17:25] Oh, the PID file *never* has a valid value? [17:25] Even now? [17:26] before i quit them all [17:26] Waiting more won't help with that, if it is still empty(-ish). [17:27] CardinalFang, sure, ... It is strange that \n's are written there, multiple times. Why can't it write it once then? [17:27] duanedesign, ok, requesting current status... Killed couchdbs count, killed desktopcouch processes count [17:27] I'd try removing the PID file, then starting. [17:27] rye: yes sir [17:28] I don't know the internals of couchdb. I will ask #couchdb when I get back, if nothing comes up. [17:28] Back in ~45min! [17:28] "yes" is not a valid integer :-P [17:28] * CardinalFang goes afk. [17:28] lol [17:33] rye: so whats next? [17:35] i had a a bunch of ubuntuone-preferences processes going. Seems U1 is syncing fine but ubuntuone-preferences doesnt start [17:35] duanedesign, when you killed everything, start desktopcouch-service in the terminal and see what happens [17:37] rye: hmm. same error [17:37] 2010-03-22 17:37:11,716 - Pid file does not contain int: '\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n' [17:38] duanedesign, ok, now could you please see what's inside stdout log for couchdb? [17:44] honk? [17:44] bladerunner, hi [17:45] hi rye [17:46] I was talking to duanedesign on friday night (I think anyway) about a bug I'm having [17:46] he (or she) said he'd send it to you? [17:47] bladerunner, loading friday log... [17:48] duanedesign: hrmmm [17:48] it's 535599 [17:48] if that helps [17:51] ubottu, bug #535599 [17:51] Launchpad bug 535599 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu One Doesn't Upload; KeyError: 'Incorrect In State'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535599 [17:51] * rye is lazy [17:52] rye: man took forever to load. big file....http://paste.ubuntu.com/399431/ [17:53] hi bladerunner [17:53] bladerunner, I believe you have restarted/relogged-in, could you please pastebin current syncdaemon-exeptions.log ? [17:53] hi duanedesign [17:53] okie doke, just a sec [17:54] {error_logger,{{2010,3,22},{17,37,12}},"inet_parse:~p:~p: erroneous line, SKIPPED~n",["/etc/hosts",65360]} [17:54] duanedesign, {error_logger,{{2010,3,22},{17,37,12}},"inet_parse:~p:~p: erroneous line, SKIPPED~n",["/etc/hosts",65360]} [17:54] could you please post your /etc/hosts ? [17:55] will do, [17:55] but the syncdaemon-exceptions.log... [17:55] it's blank... [17:56] but then I have like 4 that say syncdaemon-exceptions.log.2010-03-19 [17:56] and 3 of THOSE are blank [17:56] and one has some data... [17:56] bladerunner, ok, could you please run the command duanedesign suggested, about the syncdaemon status? [17:56] bladerunner, http://paste.ubuntu.com/398165/ [17:58] duanedesign, ping? [17:58] yes [17:58] I ran it... do you want me to post its results again? [17:58] duanedesign, could you please pastebin your /etc/hosts ? [17:58] bladerunner, yes, please [17:58] rye: yeah [17:59] http://paste.ubuntu.com/399435/ [18:00] argh.... [18:01] and just to say, I left it on all night (doing nothing but being on and online), and some files did upload, but not all. And, if it acts like it's been acting, I presume no changes will be uploaded either [18:01] facundobatista, will karmic users get the states refactor? [18:01] rye, really don't know [18:01] bladerunner, right now - bug #487257 [18:01] Launchpad bug 487257 in ubuntuone-client "The client gets stuck into STANDOFF state" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487257 === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch [18:03] rye: is it the same? it sounds similar at least [18:06] bladerunner, right now there are two possible ways to resolve. First - you're continue using the karmic version of ubuntuone w/ applet and we will try to tell you magic words that will allow ubuntuone to continue running [18:08] * rye is verifying another option... [18:11] rye: having trouble getting the whole file to pastebin. So here is the the top of it. http://paste.ubuntu.com/399444/ [18:12] duanedesign, hm... when was the last time you edited /etc/hosts ? [18:12] bladerunner, or, you might want to switch to ubuntuone ppa (one way ticket, downgrading requires reinitialization of your .local/share/ubuntuone folder, doable though). That version does not have ubuntuone applet bundled in it though so some trick will need to be applied to start it during login [18:14] rye: been awhile [18:15] probablly 4 months ago [18:15] if I stay with current setup, and try to find a way to work it, or live with it not working for awhile, what are the odds it will get fixed somehow down the line? [18:15] duanedesign, may I ask you to create a backup of it somewhere then leave only the items above # http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/ ? [18:16] facundobatista, whom should I poke regarding the upgrades for ubuntuone-client for karmic ? [18:16] rye: i already backed it up and reduced it, let me compare it to your link [18:16] rye, rmcbride? [18:17] duanedesign, well, that's not link, that's the line in the file :) [18:18] rmcbride, karmic client is still suffering states-related issues and otherwise is something that was released long ago, are there any plans regarding the release of new and shiny ubuntuone client for karmic? [18:18] rye: lol [18:20] * rmcbride reads backlog [18:20] rye: i thought that link looked familiar ;) [18:20] rye: I only build the test clients. Updated clients for karmic would likely be an SRU or something similar. I don't know of any such plans [18:22] rye: I think dobey would know more about that. [18:23] rye: we can only release bug fixes into karmic proper [18:24] dobey, but that is a bug fix, well, since fixing all states-related issues for the second time is something that will not likely happen [18:25] rye: a total refactoring of the states handling is not "a bug fix" :) [18:25] dobey, yes... but that "fixes bugs" :) [18:25] do you have a specific bug fix that doesn't involve a major change? [18:25] yes, sure [18:26] dobey, I understand all that, really. [18:27] in a few weeks we can put 1.2.0 in ppa:ubuntuone/stable though [18:27] although i put no guarantee on stability :) [18:28] rye: well that did it [18:28] duanedesign, hmmmm [18:29] CardinalFang, we have some light in the tunnel [18:29] rye: strange. I cant imagine it being a specific address in there. Maybe it is the size. [18:30] as Cardinal Fang said should we try and add some timeout durations to desktopcouch/start_local_couchdb.py [18:31] duanedesign, no, the parser breaks .. hmmm [18:31] duanedesign, what's the original size, in bytes? [18:31] duanedesign, of the original /etc/hosts ? [18:32] by original you mean the super deluxe duanedesign version? [18:32] duanedesign, yup [18:32] hey, I know I can't contribute much to the discussion except "mine doesn't work!" but I did have a question... why does ubuntuone seem to always make three keys (one ubuntuone and then the curious part of 2 couch authorizations)? [18:32] rye: 3mb [18:33] duanedesign, well, you are pretty much hosting your own DNS with /etc/hosts :) [18:33] rye: lol, yeah its a little much [18:33] bladerunner, ubuntuone key is the oauth key used to access one.ubuntu.com services [18:34] generally. tomboy actually has to get a different key [18:34] i figured that... the real question was why are there 2 couch keys? [18:34] i don't know why desktopcouch puts 2 things there... [18:35] bladerunner, two others are local desktopcouch keys, first is OAuth for local couchdb access (yes, the desktopcouch replication does not access your local couchdb via login/password, it uses OAuth) [18:35] ah [18:35] well that makes sense then [18:35] bladerunner, second desktopcouch key is basic auth credentials that are used to access futon [18:36] bladerunner, not only futon but anything that can't do OAuth authorization will use Basic auth using login and password. These items are also written to couchdb.ini file, but password is hashed [18:36] rye: ahh i see inet_parse is whats breaking [18:36] duanedesign, yup [18:37] duanedesign, could you please send me this file archived? [18:37] rye: the stndout [18:38] stdout* [18:39] duanedesign, former /etc/host === __till is now known as till === beuno-lunch is now known as beuno [18:48] rye: sure thing [18:51] * CardinalFang returns. [18:53] CardinalFang, greetings, human [18:54] duanedesign, any roman.yepishev@ address will do :) [18:54] rye: just sent it [18:55] rye: thank you a bunch [18:55] duanedesign, I will implant it to my vm and see how that dies [18:55] rye: i did not even think of the stdout file :P Now I can continue my work on my packagesync.py [18:56] rye, so "erroneous line, SKIPPED", is that in a log file anywhere else? That should tell us the line that is bad, I think. [18:57] CardinalFang, bottom line - couchdb started giving errors about /etc/hosts. Removing of much part of 3Mb file fixed this issue. However that might signal about possible couchdb regression because it was working before [18:57] who wants to test our new phone sync service? [18:59] rye, duanedesign, agreed about couchdb bug. I'd like to know, is that "65360" the line number of error, the offset of error, or the size of the file? [19:00] rye: i looked at that number CardinalFang is referencing. At first glance it seemed to line up with the commented lines [19:03] 127.0.0.1#services.wmdrm.windowsmedia.com lineNum 65361 [19:03] Hrm, that is an illegal line. [19:04] 127.0.0.1#gmodules.com lineNum38797 [19:04] and so on [19:12] what two labels are available for "the rest of eu"? [19:13] in the u1 music store [19:15] So about the Ubuntu One Music Store being integrated with the Ubuntu One account. Am I limited to only being able to purchase 2gb worth of music then i'm done since that's all that is freely available for the ubuntu one cloud storage? [19:19] leftyfb: you can move music out of Ubuntu One folder to free up some space [19:19] that will break sync'ing with another computer at that point right? [19:20] right, if you move it from the U1 it won't sync to other computers [19:22] ok, good to know. Thank you [19:26] CardinalFang: rye i removed those 4 lines (65360, 38796, 38141, 26021) from the /etc/hosts and couch would not start. [19:28] duanedesign, I added such invalid lines and couch does start, not w/ /etc/hosts you sent me (searching for it now) [19:31] Is there nothing new in the log file you two found "erroneous line" in? [19:47] CardinalFang: rye after removing the 4 'erroneous lines' this is the stdout. http://paste.ubuntu.com/399490/ [19:47] duanedesign, so that works if you remove error lines only? [19:48] rye: no it does not [19:48] duanedesign, so it says blah blah blah, \n in pid ? [19:49] duanedesign, could you please remove all the logs and restart couch ? [19:49] duanedesign, possibly that's a leftover from previous successful attempt [19:49] ok i thought i did. but to be sure [19:49] the pid file is empty. no /n [19:50] hi, i have an issue where ubuntu one stopped working since i upgraded to lucid [19:50] duanedesign, what if parsing of that 3mb file prevented couchdb from starting up properly [19:50] i don't really know how to debug the problem, it just never syncs or stays open [19:50] and the "Connect" button on the ubuntu one preferences is disabled [19:50] jamalta, Lucid client does not autoconnect at the moment [19:51] rye: oh ok [19:51] rye: can i manually connect? [19:51] jamalta, hm, disabled? What does u1sdtool --status say if you run it from the terminal? Please paste the output to http://paste.ubuntu.com [19:52] rye: http://paste.ubuntu.com/399492/ [19:53] jamalta, but ubuntuone-preferences still does not allow you to connect? [19:53] jamalta, could you please close it and run the same from the terminal - ubuntuone-preferences [19:53] rye: sure [19:54] hm now i click it and the button switches to "Disconnect" [19:54] jamalta, I am especially interested in what gets printed (if any) [19:54] hmmm [19:54] rye: nothing gets printed but the button was no longer disabled [19:54] for the computer it says "" [19:54] oh.. the button just disabled itself again [19:54] and the label for it reads "Connect" [19:54] weird [19:55] you have removed all your machines [19:55] duanedesign: oh... [19:55] duanedesign: so what can i do now? [19:56] jamalta: sudo apt-get install ubuntuone-client-tools [19:56] uhm [19:56] dobey, what does mean? [19:56] jamalta: then [19:56] jamalta: u1sync --authorize [19:56] that's not exactly what that means [19:56] duanedesign, no nono [19:56] wait [19:57] duanedesign, wait wait [19:57] jamalta, wait, pls [19:57] he is the sevcond person with this [19:57] rye: i am [19:57] this weekend [19:57] that was the problem with the last user [19:57] rye: duanedesign is right though, my laptop was repeated 3 times so i removed them all, and i assumed meant my current host (my desktop) [19:57] he had no computers listed on devices [19:58] but i did that, when i was trying to figure out why it wasn't working in the first place [19:58] are there plans to make u1 usable on servers? [19:58] jamalta: what version of ubuntuone-client-gnome is this with? [19:58] WTF I have to pay money to download songs from the Ubuntu One music store?!?!?!?/ [19:58] songs usually cost money to purchase, yes? [19:58] 1.1.4 [19:58] dobey: ^ [19:59] I think I'll stick to downloading my music for free using Bittorrent, thank you very much. [19:59] Samuel-NotAFK: store usually implies buying [19:59] :/ [19:59] dobey: To purchase, yeah. To download, no. [19:59] jamalta: A store is merely a place where things are kept. [19:59] jamalta: Whether you get charged to extract from the store is another matter. [19:59] uhm, no to steal things you don't generally have to pay for them, no [20:00] Please rename it to Ubuntu One music shop. [20:00] dobey: Troll. [20:00] haha [20:00] "shop" doesn't imply free stuff. [20:00] neither does store but I'm pretty sure you know that already [20:00] there are free songs on the store [20:00] I'm going to start a Brainstorm idea to rename it from "store" to "shop". [20:00] Samuel-NotAFK: well, it was fairly understood that the u1 music store would be selling music. if you want free music you can try jamendo or another site like it. [20:00] dobey: WTF there are?!?!? [20:00] sure [20:01] dobey: CC music? [20:01] duanedesign, as for that exception, I think if you remove the test db with "withslashes" in the name, replication should work. [20:01] perhaps not the ones you want, but there are some free songs [20:01] CardinalFang: thank you [20:01] we don't control what songs specifically are available [20:02] dobey: Does 7 Digital? [20:02] not entirely [20:02] dobey: The E.U.? [20:03] record companies mostly. laws in various regions affect that as well of course [20:04] dobey: So if I route my connection through the US or Brazil or Australia, I'll get a different selection of tunes? [20:04] what should jamalta do? [20:04] duanedesign: i'm looking [20:04] Samuel-NotAFK: yes but it won't be legal [20:05] kklimonda: Would it be more or less legal than pirating the music? [20:05] Samuel-NotAFK: I'm not a lawyer [20:06] Hello... how does one re-authenticate/connect a machine to U1? I assume there's something that u1sdtool can do, but I'm not sure what. [20:06] kklimonda: I don't thinks there are degrees or legality. [20:06] s/thinks/think/ [20:06] I'm currently in "State: AUTH_FAILED" but I can't trick it into opening a browser so I can authenticate :) [20:06] Samuel-NotAFK: so what is the purpose of your question? [20:06]