[00:31] hi ! [00:32] someone online? [00:32] Nope. [00:33] =P i'm sorry... [00:33] i'm from wikibooks pt [00:34] como posso me envolver na tradução? [00:35] sorry! a say... [00:35] how can I get involved in translation? [00:35] and [00:36] which the license of the manual? [00:36] alguem pode me ajudar com isso? [00:36] please [00:37] sorry again [00:37] If you can wait a couple of hours, ask humphreybc when he's online. [00:37] can someone help me with this? [00:37] Or godbyk or ubuntujenkins. [00:37] Nobody who's around right now. [00:38] But your help would be appreciated. [00:39] certo.... [00:39] certo... então eu apareco depois [00:39] sure ... then I showed up after [00:40] Tank's Red_HamsterX! [00:42] You can just stay in the channel. I'll let them know as soon as they're around, if you on't see them first. [00:42] anything I'm here: http://pt.wikibooks.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Raylton_P._Sousa [00:42] I speak French, if it would be helpful for me to try to say things in that language. [00:45] do not worry if you want to talk to me in English, no problem [00:46] or possibly French [00:48] will leave now ... bye for hours [00:48] tank's again! [00:48] bye! =D [01:19] godbyk, we had a visit from Raylton, someone associated with pt.wikibooks.org, looking to get involved with the translation project. He said he'd be back in a few hours. [01:19] I wasn't sure where to direct him. [01:19] Cool. [01:19] I would point him at the translators page on the wiki [01:19] Link? [01:19] (my Internet connection is crap today. [01:19] only comes up for a couple minutes at a time.) [01:19] :( [01:19] No link, then. [01:19] I'll find it. [01:20] Red_HamsterX: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/translators [01:20] Yeah, I just found it. [01:20] I'll let him know when he returns. [01:25] k [02:48] phew [02:48] that was close [02:48] i was *this close* to reinstalling lcid [02:48] lucid* [03:00] btw i printed the manual at uni today [03:00] double sided, got it bound [03:00] it looks AMAZING [03:13] Is it done enough to print? [03:14] no but i wanted to print it so I can go through with a red pen and mark stuff for editing [03:14] Ah. :) [03:15] yup [03:15] it's going to take me a while [03:15] (Silly how computers still somewhat fail at such tasks. Need better HIDs!) [03:16] I suppose a tablet could do somewhat well. [03:16] But who owns one. [03:16] no one :P [03:18] Are you using any spell correction software on the manual? [03:18] nope [03:19] aspell -t check file.tex [03:20] hrm [03:21] No idea how that works with your translation setup. [03:30] omg [03:30] 450 bloody bug reports now [03:31] humphreybc: how many bugs did you want by the end of the week? :) [03:40] godbyk well, not sure [03:40] =| [03:40] oh yeah godbyk my computer is fixed now [03:40] bloody gnome-panwl [03:41] my Internet is back up.. for the time being, at least. [03:41] lol [03:41] the manual looks so beautiful [03:41] trying to run a new build of all the translations and get them uploaded. [03:41] i took some photos of it [03:41] lol [03:41] will put them on flickr and facebook [03:41] the typeface is unbelievable [03:41] i love it [03:41] how do the printed screenshots look? [03:41] I was showing all my flatmates and they were like "I don't care" [03:42] the printed screens look good [03:42] and do you see why those blank pages are there now? :) [03:42] that's good. [03:42] great, actually [03:42] the printed screens are fantastic [03:42] it looks f**king professional [03:42] can't wait to see it in full colour with screenshots [03:43] * humphreybc might have to get every single language printed just for himself [03:43] It always looks a lot nicer when you've printed and bound it, though. The whole idea of, 'Hey, this is a *book*!' hits home then. [03:43] yeah totally [03:43] I had the same feeling when I had that other book printed through lulu. [03:43] Was kinda neat. [03:44] Went from, 'Meh, it's a nice-looking PDF.' to 'Holy crap, this is a book!' [03:44] haha [03:44] i can't wait to see this as a book with a thick cover and stuff [03:44] and if we print it as a book, should we do it a bit smaller than A4? [03:44] If we go through lulu.com, we're limited to a selection of page sizes. [03:44] okay [03:44] such as? [03:45] halfway between A5 and A4 would look good [03:45] pulling up the site now.. [03:45] A4.5... [03:45] Nice.. they have a lot more sizes than they used to: http://www.lulu.com/publish/books/?cid=nav_bks [03:46] The last book I did was 6x9 inches because they had soft-cover and hard-cover books that could use 6x9-inch pages. [03:46] Ours is already designed for letter and A4. [03:46] So that'd be the simplest for us.. [03:46] hm [03:47] letter is smaller than A4 right? [03:47] It wider and shorter, if I remember correctly. [03:47] But they're on par with each other. [03:48] ah okay [03:48] hm [03:48] it would be nicer if it was thicker and a smaller surface area [03:49] at the moment it looks more like a course book than an operating system manual [03:49] A4 is just a generic size, so it doesn't have that whole "Ooo custom size therefore it MUST be professional" thing [03:49] Just plugging in some numbers to their calculator: [03:49] I know i'm being picky [03:50] Standard paper, paperback cover, black and white, US letter size, perfect bound, 180 pages x 1 copy = US$10.00 [03:50] wow that's cheap [03:50] oh but black and white [03:50] boo [03:50] Let me see what paper sizes they offer. [03:50] Color is expensive. [03:50] Same settings, but with color = $41.50 [03:51] wow [03:51] Hardcover options only allow for 8.25"x10.75" or 6"x9". [03:51] we can do options for both right? [03:51] hardcover would be awesome [03:52] Sure, we can publish a color version and a B&W version, a paperback and hard-cover edition, etc. [03:52] yay! [03:52] But I'd prefer not to have to fiddle with too many paper sizes. [03:52] * humphreybc is going to get the hardcover colour version [03:52] And too many options will just confuse people, so we should choose carefully. [03:52] what's shipping to NZ? [03:53] we can do what windows do and have three options [03:53] Hardcover color (at the larger paper size) will cost ~$50 USD. [03:53] "Basic" "Premium" and "Ultimate" haha [03:53] heh [03:53] Basic is just paperback, US letter, black and white [03:53] premium is paperback, US letter, colour [03:53] ultimate is hardback, colour [03:54] obviously we can think of better names [03:55] If we use a lower-quality paper, we can get it cheaper (for B&W). Down to $6.74 instead of $10. [03:55] that's cool [03:56] Fresh builds: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ [03:59] neat [03:59] did you update the draft one? [04:00] not yet [04:00] http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-04-in-real-life/ [04:01] Just wait 'til it's properly bound. :) [04:02] :D [04:02] I'll find my other lulu books and take pics a bit later for ya. [04:04] do lulu charge much for shipping? [04:04] I don't recall. [04:04] kk [04:11] now, time to take out the red pen [04:13] the wide margin is good for editing [04:13] but i still think it's a tad too wide [04:13] just a tad though [04:13] :P [04:14] * humphreybc has Beethoven's symphony #6 playing while editing [04:17] * godbyk is watching Lost and will edit some more afterward. :) [04:17] lol [04:42] oh btw, if I haven't made it clear: I don't want to see one single error in the manual. [04:42] we are going to set the quality standard incredibly high [04:43] so that means no errors at all. [04:49] * humphreybc now has 20 euros riding on it [04:50] I made a bet with Martin. If he finds an error in the final english publication, I have to give him 20 euro at UDS. [04:50] if he cannot find an error, he has to give me 20 euro. [04:52] How much will you pay me to ensure that you win the bet? ;-) [04:52] hahah [04:52] nothing, but i'll hurt you if i lose. [04:53] lol [04:53] If only you weren't halfway around the world, that threat might hold a bit more power. :-P [04:53] hahaha [04:53] now, get editing! I'm halfway through the installation chapter. Will make all my changes soon [04:54] I'm going to fix the errors at the end of each chapter before moving on. [04:54] I must say, the prologue only had a couple of errors... :) [04:54] i'm seeing lots of places for margin notes, so i'll be putting some more in [04:55] how are we doing at incorporating the changes from the spreadsheet? [04:55] okay [04:55] looks like they're being assigned quickly. are they getting fixed quickly, too? [04:55] sort of [04:55] i can't do two things at once [04:56] or do we need to break it down and assign more chapters to people? [04:56] all of the spelling and grammar bugs i will pick up in my sweep [04:56] jamin and bryan are doing okay with the spreadsheet bugs [04:56] jamin has thursday and friday off work so we should be able to nail most of them [04:56] lots of duplicates [04:56] overall, we're doing pretty good [04:57] I might grab one chapter's worth of bugs from the spreadsheet, fix them, and then make any other edits I see in the chapter myself. (If that's okay.) [04:58] Marking it up on paper and then filing a ton of bugs per page is a bit slow. [04:58] sure, go for it [04:58] don't file the bugs you've found on paper [04:58] just fix them [04:58] Any specific chapter you want me to tackle first? [04:58] chapter 5 [04:58] wolter's one [04:58] after I fix these bugs i'll be able to say with confidence that the prologue and installation chapters are perfect [04:58] :) [04:59] Okay. Chapter 5 it is. [05:07] what chapter is the me menu discussed in? [05:09] godbyk, i have a sentence here that i'm not sure about [05:09] it goes like this [05:09] Under 'What is your name?', type in your full name. [05:09] the whole ?', thing is a bit odd [05:12] It is a bit awkward. You could probably leave the comma out there, as the prepositional phrase "Under [blah]" is short enough that it doesn't need the comma. [05:12] You should use double quotes, though. [05:13] I'd rephrase: Type in your full name under ``What is your name?'' [05:13] Then you don't need the comma. [05:14] ok [05:14] "Now you need to decide on your computer's name." [05:14] apostrophe needed for computer? [05:15] yep [05:15] it's possessive [05:15] the name belonging to the computer. [05:15] kk [05:17] we need someone to write about the migration assistant [05:18] and also wubi. [05:18] i might see if i can sort that out [05:20] They'd better hurry. :) [05:21] =| [05:22] How stable is wubi though? Updating dad's wubi install kinda fucked it up several times until it completely stopped booting. [05:22] Does "error", in the context of your bet, extend to syntax/punctuation? [05:22] 9.10. [05:22] Red_HamsterX: whether it is an error is decided by Alan Pope :) [05:22] So many names! [05:22] I think errors are grammar, punctuation, spelling, formatting, missing words etc [05:23] inconsistencies in formatting [05:23] donri: well wubi is included with Ubuntu by default so we need to cover it [05:23] * humphreybc is trying to think of a place to put the information about the file system structure [05:24] As much as I love defining editorial styles and sticking to them, I don't see myself having enough free time to grammar-nazi 150+ pages. :( [05:24] Wubi is lovely if it works, but I think does more harm than good if it can't handle things like updates, and updates are enabled by default. [05:24] How much does an average user need to know about the filesystem? [05:25] not a whole lot, but it might be helpful to mention how it works and is different to their C drive etc [05:25] also how mounting drives/ USB flash disks get incorporated into the directory structure [05:26] Oh, right. I completely forgot about the concept of drives. [05:26] * humphreybc has finished editing prologue and installation, now to make changes [05:26] I thought you were going to explain something like the difference between bin and sbin and how /usr/local/ works under Debian. [05:27] * Red_HamsterX skims the chapters to provide an opinion. [05:30] I'd probably expect to see it in a sub-section at the start of Chapter 3. Something like "Where are my files?" or "How can I share my files with others?" [05:31] Though both of those questions need to be covered by a single header... [05:31] And "file system" is a term I'm sure my mother wouldn't understand. [05:32] "CDs and USB keys: what you need to know"? [05:40] hm [05:45] godbyk, the first bug I found was in the contents [05:45] the glossary isn't listed in the contents [05:45] there appears to be a space reserved for it however [05:45] Space reserved for it? [05:45] yeah, it's weird [05:46] okay. assign me a bug and I'll look at it when I'm done with this chapter. [05:46] okay [05:50] lol [05:51] look at the suggestion for row 348 [05:52] hahaha [05:52] good man [05:52] godbyk, what's the correct syntax for chapter links? [05:53] \chaplink{ch:label} [05:53] thought so [05:55] If fixed almost all the bugs listed for this chapter. I'm going to print it out and edit it myself now, too. [05:55] awesome [05:55] how are yours coming along? [05:56] good, i've marked all the bugs on paper for prologue and installation [05:56] just making changes in tex now [05:56] should finish the entire manual by sunday [05:57] cool [05:57] I'm thinking, do we need our launchpad and the planet websites under contact details? [05:57] I would just go for home page, wiki and email [05:57] Probably not. [05:57] or perhaps just our website and email [05:58] Home page, email, and maybe IRC. [05:58] okay [05:58] IRC sounds good [05:58] The wiki content should get moved over to our own site. [05:58] yeah it will do eventually [05:59] I'm gonna sit across the room and scribble on the printout of this chapter. [05:59] okay [05:59] feel free to ping me if you need anything. [05:59] how do I insert a # ? [06:00] godbyk? [06:00] Oh, sure, wait until I just get settled in! [06:00] Use \# [06:00] thanks [06:00] Didn't you attend my LaTeX tutorial session? :) [06:00] shush [06:01] http://kevin.godby.org/ubuntu-manual/talks/latex-handout.pdf [06:01] if you do the "conventions" section at the end of the prologue, we can mark the prologue as completely finished. [06:19] anyone know what the wording is on the button that is in the installer, where you can let Ubuntu detect your keyboard? [06:20] I've got it in here as "Guess" but I think it's something like "Let Ubuntu try to detect your keyboard" [06:22] I don't remember what it said. [08:38] humphreybc, I think it says "Guess", yes. [08:38] oh really? [08:38] that's weird [08:38] I recall thinking it was somewhat cryptic, when I installed yesterdayish. [08:39] MORE BUGS! [08:40] lol [08:40] Bugs om nom nom. [08:40] I think we should sort the spread sheet by page no we can sort duplicates easiyer then [08:42] that's a good idea [08:42] go for it. [08:42] that's what I did. [08:42] I copied the spreadsheet to a local spreadsheet. [08:42] then filtered for the pages in the chapter I was editing. [08:42] you'll want to sort by both rev and page num. [08:42] (since the pages change from revision to revision) [08:43] when you guys have finished with the bulk of the edits you're working on, give me a holler and I'll upload a new draft. [08:44] can we do it on the main sheet or will it mess the form up? [08:45] ubuntujenkins: good question. [08:46] I'm pretty sure we can sort and it'll be fine. [08:46] I don't know if auto-updates will be sorted or not. [08:47] I guess the auto-updates will not be sorted, I have to run to lectures now I will lok later [08:47] k [08:51] hey all [08:51] Hello some. [08:53] hey donri, havent seen you in here before, you a team member? [08:54] I'm just a consumer who does no good. [08:55] haha [08:57] hehe [09:11] * humphreybc has finished editing the hell out of the prologue, installation and The Ubuntu Desktop chapters [09:14] nice [09:30] godbyk, howcome italics don't work in margin notes? [09:30] humphreybc: because there is no italic sans serif font. [09:30] oh [09:34] * humphreybc has finished editing chapter 2, committing and pushing [09:37] okay pushed [09:37] everyone pull and make the manual and observe the beauty that is the prologue, chapters 1 and 2 [09:48] Is http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ up to date? [09:48] should be [09:48] oh godbyk, can you please update the draft [09:48] sure. [09:48] gimme a sec. [09:48] hopefully we'll make some people happy as there should be 0 errors in the first three chapters now :D [09:48] okay maybe not 0, I have to go back through them and double check [09:52] pushing [09:53] swell [09:53] pushed [09:53] The wrapping algorithm is a little weird, do you have any control over it? [09:53] Page 7, a URL breaks after "http:". [09:53] yeah a lot of URLs are breaking after the http bit [09:54] URLs are a pain in the butt to wrap [09:54] Is it really "on-line"? [09:55] I'm okay with online. [09:55] Also, are non-technicals familiar with the term "docs"? [09:55] spell out 'docs' -> documentation [09:56] "on-line docs" in the margin notes on page 7. [09:57] I read somewhere you prefer guided clicks to arrows, the first such click-steps are arrowed on page 7. "System → Help and Support". [09:59] Why is it wrapping "connecting" into "connect-ing"? [10:00] Because it can? [10:00] fix the wrapping you cock godbyk :) [10:00] :P [10:00] LaTeX's wrapping algorithm is literally the best in existence. :) [10:00] uh hu [10:01] is that why it's stuck a screenshot just before the last word in a paragraph [10:01] so it goes blah blah blah blah.... SCREENSHOT.... "packages." [10:01] :P [10:01] heh. [10:01] I destroyed all of the nice formatting in chapter 2 [10:01] by putting in more screenshots and margin notes [10:02] the worst ones are the times where it has the section header at the bottom of one page, then it has the next bit on the next page [10:02] It has to fill the page in any way it can. [10:03] Once all the writing is truly finalized, I'll be tweaking the formatting to make it all awesome. [10:03] Does a colon feel more natural after "Ask taken from the Ubuntu website, [URL]." instead of the period (ubuntu promise, page 8)? [10:03] * humphreybc needs food [10:04] (humphreybc wanted perfection, so I'm going OCD on this. Ignore me whenever you feel like it. :)) [10:04] donri: OCD away! [10:04] I'm saving my OCDing until later this week. :) [10:05] I can't save OCDing, as I actually have it. [10:06] lolo [10:06] I nit-pick a LOT when it comes to editing things like this. [10:06] the manual isn't long enough [10:06] by the way [10:06] So it's better if I save my energy to find the small bugs at the end than to freak out about 20 bugs per page right now. :) [10:06] Missing a period in the margin note on page 8. [10:06] I'll let others find the obvious bugs. :) [10:07] I purposely left out some periods where the margin note ends with a URL. [10:07] Feels wrong to me. [10:07] You should add the periods. [10:07] just in case people think the period is part of the URL when they're reading it off the page [10:07] It's a complete sentence. [10:07] sigh [10:07] Some notes I made about mistakes I kept seeing over and over again: [10:08] Use American quotation marks: `` and ''. Also, following the (insane) punctuation rules, too. So commas and a lot of other punctuation goes inside the quotation marks. [10:08] okay [10:08] that's what we do in NZ too [10:09] Title case chapter headings and sentence case section headings. (I think humphreybc fixed most these already.) [10:09] Use serial commas. [10:09] "Sam," said the shop attendant, "Sam, what's the matter?" [10:09] Make sure there are periods at the end of the sidenotes. [10:09] humphreybc: yep. [10:10] that was actually a pretty nice line of dialogue, if I don't say so myself [10:10] (writing convincing natural sounding dialogue is the hardest thing in fiction writing) [10:10] BTW, B/W will suck and if it's a difference of a few dollars... make the colored version clearly available and note its superior awesomeness. [10:10] It's not really a difference of a "few" dollars [10:10] try like, 10x more expensive [10:11] Well, 4x as expensive. :) [10:11] $6 USD or $50? [10:11] Oh, I thought it was $6 vs $10. [10:11] Or is that for the hardback version? [10:11] Lemme look again. [10:11] lol [10:12] did you include a brick in your latest push godbyk [10:12] the pull is quite large [10:12] Added a PDF. :) [10:12] What VCS are you guys using? [10:14] Standard paper (as opposed to the cheapskate paper), paperback, black and white, US letter size, perfect bound, 180 pages (estimating), single purchase = $10 [10:14] donri: bzr [10:14] Good. :) [10:14] not an SVN guy then? [10:14]