[00:31] <Raylton> hi !
[00:32] <Raylton> someone online?
[00:32] <Red_HamsterX> Nope.
[00:33] <Raylton> =P i'm sorry...
[00:33] <Raylton> i'm from wikibooks pt
[00:34] <Raylton> como posso me envolver na tradução?
[00:35] <Raylton> sorry! a say...
[00:35] <Raylton> how can I get involved in translation?
[00:35] <Raylton> and
[00:36] <Raylton> which the license of the manual?
[00:36] <Raylton> alguem pode me  ajudar com isso?
[00:36] <Raylton> please
[00:37] <Raylton> sorry again
[00:37] <Red_HamsterX> If you can wait a couple of hours, ask humphreybc when he's online.
[00:37] <Raylton> can someone help me with this?
[00:37] <Red_HamsterX> Or godbyk or ubuntujenkins.
[00:37] <Red_HamsterX> Nobody who's around right now.
[00:38] <Red_HamsterX> But your help would be appreciated.
[00:39] <Raylton> certo....
[00:39] <Raylton> certo... então eu apareco depois
[00:39] <Raylton> sure ... then I showed up after
[00:40] <Raylton> Tank's  Red_HamsterX!
[00:42] <Red_HamsterX> You can just stay in the channel. I'll let them know as soon as they're around, if you on't see them first.
[00:42] <Raylton> anything I'm here: http://pt.wikibooks.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio:Raylton_P._Sousa
[00:42] <Red_HamsterX> I speak French, if it would be helpful for me to try to say things in that language.
[00:45] <Raylton> do not worry if you want to talk to me in English, no problem
[00:46] <Raylton> or possibly French
[00:48] <Raylton> will leave now ... bye for hours
[00:48] <Raylton> tank's again!
[00:48] <Raylton> bye! =D
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk, we had a visit from Raylton, someone associated with pt.wikibooks.org, looking to get involved with the translation project. He said he'd be back in a few hours.
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> I wasn't sure where to direct him.
[01:19] <godbyk> Cool.
[01:19] <godbyk> I would point him at the translators page on the wiki
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> Link?
[01:19] <godbyk> (my Internet connection is crap today.
[01:19] <godbyk> only comes up for a couple minutes at a time.)
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> :(
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> No link, then.
[01:19] <Red_HamsterX> I'll find it.
[01:20] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/translators
[01:20] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah, I just found it.
[01:20] <Red_HamsterX> I'll let him know when he returns.
[01:25] <godbyk> k
[02:48] <humphreybc> phew
[02:48] <humphreybc> that was close
[02:48] <humphreybc> i was *this close* to reinstalling lcid
[02:48] <humphreybc> lucid*
[03:00] <humphreybc> btw i printed the manual at uni today
[03:00] <humphreybc> double sided, got it bound
[03:00] <humphreybc> it looks AMAZING
[03:13] <donri> Is it done enough to print?
[03:14] <humphreybc> no but i wanted to print it so I can go through with a red pen and mark stuff for editing
[03:14] <donri> Ah. :)
[03:15] <humphreybc> yup
[03:15] <humphreybc> it's going to take me a while
[03:15] <donri> (Silly how computers still somewhat fail at such tasks. Need better HIDs!)
[03:16] <donri> I suppose a tablet could do somewhat well.
[03:16] <donri> But who owns one.
[03:16] <humphreybc> no one :P
[03:18] <donri> Are you using any spell correction software on the manual?
[03:18] <humphreybc> nope
[03:19] <donri> aspell -t check file.tex
[03:20] <humphreybc> hrm
[03:21] <donri> No idea how that works with your translation setup.
[03:30] <humphreybc> omg
[03:30] <humphreybc> 450 bloody bug reports now
[03:31] <godbyk> humphreybc: how many bugs did you want by the end of the week? :)
[03:40] <humphreybc> godbyk well, not sure
[03:40] <humphreybc> =|
[03:40] <humphreybc> oh yeah godbyk my computer is fixed now
[03:40] <humphreybc> bloody gnome-panwl
[03:41] <godbyk> my Internet is back up.. for the time being, at least.
[03:41] <humphreybc> lol
[03:41] <humphreybc> the manual looks so beautiful
[03:41] <godbyk> trying to run a new build of all the translations and get them uploaded.
[03:41] <humphreybc> i took some photos of it
[03:41] <godbyk> lol
[03:41] <humphreybc> will put them on flickr and facebook
[03:41] <humphreybc> the typeface is unbelievable
[03:41] <humphreybc> i love it
[03:41] <godbyk> how do the printed screenshots look?
[03:41] <humphreybc> I was showing all my flatmates and they were like "I don't care"
[03:42] <humphreybc> the printed screens look good
[03:42] <godbyk> and do you see why those blank pages are there now? :)
[03:42] <godbyk> that's good.
[03:42] <humphreybc> great, actually
[03:42] <humphreybc> the printed screens are fantastic
[03:42] <humphreybc> it looks f**king professional
[03:42] <humphreybc> can't wait to see it in full colour with screenshots
[03:43]  * humphreybc might have to get every single language printed just for himself
[03:43] <godbyk> It always looks a lot nicer when you've printed and bound it, though.  The whole idea of, 'Hey, this is a *book*!' hits home then.
[03:43] <humphreybc> yeah totally
[03:43] <godbyk> I had the same feeling when I had that other book printed through lulu.
[03:43] <godbyk> Was kinda neat.
[03:44] <godbyk> Went from, 'Meh, it's a nice-looking PDF.' to 'Holy crap, this is a book!'
[03:44] <humphreybc> haha
[03:44] <humphreybc> i can't wait to see this as a book with a thick cover and stuff
[03:44] <humphreybc> and if we print it as a book, should we do it a bit smaller than A4?
[03:44] <godbyk> If we go through lulu.com, we're limited to a selection of page sizes.
[03:44] <humphreybc> okay
[03:44] <humphreybc> such as?
[03:45] <humphreybc> halfway between A5 and A4 would look good
[03:45] <godbyk> pulling up the site now..
[03:45] <humphreybc> A4.5...
[03:45] <godbyk> Nice.. they have a lot more sizes than they used to: http://www.lulu.com/publish/books/?cid=nav_bks
[03:46] <godbyk> The last book I did was 6x9 inches because they had soft-cover and hard-cover books that could use 6x9-inch pages.
[03:46] <godbyk> Ours is already designed for letter and A4.
[03:46] <godbyk> So that'd be the simplest for us..
[03:46] <humphreybc> hm
[03:47] <humphreybc> letter is smaller than A4 right?
[03:47] <godbyk> It wider and shorter, if I remember correctly.
[03:47] <godbyk> But they're on par with each other.
[03:48] <humphreybc> ah okay
[03:48] <humphreybc> hm
[03:48] <humphreybc> it would be nicer if it was thicker and a smaller surface area
[03:49] <humphreybc> at the moment it looks more like a course book than an operating system manual
[03:49] <humphreybc> A4 is just a generic size, so it doesn't have that whole "Ooo custom size therefore it MUST be professional" thing
[03:49] <godbyk> Just plugging in some numbers to their calculator:
[03:49] <humphreybc> I know i'm being picky
[03:50] <godbyk> Standard paper, paperback cover, black and white, US letter size, perfect bound, 180 pages x 1 copy = US$10.00
[03:50] <humphreybc> wow that's cheap
[03:50] <humphreybc> oh but black and white
[03:50] <humphreybc> boo
[03:50] <godbyk> Let me see what paper sizes they offer.
[03:50] <godbyk> Color is expensive.
[03:50] <godbyk> Same settings, but with color = $41.50
[03:51] <humphreybc> wow
[03:51] <godbyk> Hardcover options only allow for 8.25"x10.75" or 6"x9".
[03:51] <humphreybc> we can do options for both right?
[03:51] <humphreybc> hardcover would be awesome
[03:52] <godbyk> Sure, we can publish a color version and a B&W version, a paperback and hard-cover edition, etc.
[03:52] <humphreybc> yay!
[03:52] <godbyk> But I'd prefer not to have to fiddle with too many paper sizes.
[03:52]  * humphreybc is going to get the hardcover colour version 
[03:52] <godbyk> And too many options will just confuse people, so we should choose carefully.
[03:52] <humphreybc> what's shipping to NZ?
[03:53] <humphreybc> we can do what windows do and have three options
[03:53] <godbyk> Hardcover color (at the larger paper size) will cost ~$50 USD.
[03:53] <humphreybc> "Basic" "Premium" and "Ultimate" haha
[03:53] <godbyk> heh
[03:53] <humphreybc> Basic is just paperback, US letter, black and white
[03:53] <humphreybc> premium is paperback, US letter, colour
[03:53] <humphreybc> ultimate is hardback, colour
[03:54] <humphreybc> obviously we can think of better names
[03:55] <godbyk> If we use a lower-quality paper, we can get it cheaper (for B&W).  Down to $6.74 instead of $10.
[03:55] <humphreybc> that's cool
[03:56] <godbyk> Fresh builds: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
[03:59] <humphreybc> neat
[03:59] <humphreybc> did you update the draft one?
[04:00] <godbyk> not yet
[04:00] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-04-in-real-life/
[04:01] <godbyk> Just wait 'til it's properly bound. :)
[04:02] <humphreybc> :D
[04:02] <godbyk> I'll find my other lulu books and take pics a bit later for ya.
[04:04] <humphreybc> do lulu charge much for shipping?
[04:04] <godbyk> I don't recall.
[04:04] <humphreybc> kk
[04:11] <humphreybc> now, time to take out the red pen
[04:13] <humphreybc> the wide margin is good for editing
[04:13] <humphreybc> but i still think it's a tad too wide
[04:13] <humphreybc> just a tad though
[04:13] <humphreybc> :P
[04:14]  * humphreybc has Beethoven's symphony #6 playing while editing
[04:17]  * godbyk is watching Lost and will edit some more afterward. :)
[04:17] <humphreybc> lol
[04:42] <humphreybc> oh btw, if I haven't made it clear: I don't want to see one single error in the manual.
[04:42] <humphreybc> we are going to set the quality standard incredibly high
[04:43] <humphreybc> so that means no errors at all.
[04:49]  * humphreybc now has 20 euros riding on it
[04:50] <humphreybc> I made a bet with Martin. If he finds an error in the final english publication, I have to give him 20 euro at UDS.
[04:50] <humphreybc> if he cannot find an error, he has to give me 20 euro.
[04:52] <godbyk> How much will you pay me to ensure that you win the bet? ;-)
[04:52] <humphreybc> hahah
[04:52] <humphreybc> nothing, but i'll hurt you if i lose.
[04:53] <godbyk> lol
[04:53] <godbyk> If only you weren't halfway around the world, that threat might hold a bit more power. :-P
[04:53] <humphreybc> hahaha
[04:53] <humphreybc> now, get editing! I'm halfway through the installation chapter. Will make all my changes soon
[04:54] <humphreybc> I'm going to fix the errors at the end of each chapter before moving on.
[04:54] <humphreybc> I must say, the prologue only had a couple of errors... :)
[04:54] <humphreybc> i'm seeing lots of places for margin notes, so i'll be putting some more in
[04:55] <godbyk> how are we doing at incorporating the changes from the spreadsheet?
[04:55] <humphreybc> okay
[04:55] <godbyk> looks like they're being assigned quickly. are they getting fixed quickly, too?
[04:55] <humphreybc> sort of
[04:55] <humphreybc> i can't do two things at once
[04:56] <godbyk> or do we need to break it down and assign more chapters to people?
[04:56] <humphreybc> all of the spelling and grammar bugs i will pick up in my sweep
[04:56] <humphreybc> jamin and bryan are doing okay with the spreadsheet bugs
[04:56] <humphreybc> jamin has thursday and friday off work so we should be able to nail most of them
[04:56] <humphreybc> lots of duplicates
[04:56] <humphreybc> overall, we're doing pretty good
[04:57] <godbyk> I might grab one chapter's worth of bugs from the spreadsheet, fix them, and then make any other edits I see in the chapter myself.  (If that's okay.)
[04:58] <godbyk> Marking it up on paper and then filing a ton of bugs per page is a bit slow.
[04:58] <humphreybc> sure, go for it
[04:58] <humphreybc> don't file the bugs you've found on paper
[04:58] <humphreybc> just fix them
[04:58] <godbyk> Any specific chapter you want me to tackle first?
[04:58] <humphreybc> chapter 5
[04:58] <humphreybc> wolter's one
[04:58] <humphreybc> after I fix these bugs i'll be able to say with confidence that the prologue and installation chapters are perfect
[04:58] <humphreybc> :)
[04:59] <godbyk> Okay. Chapter 5 it is.
[05:07] <humphreybc> what chapter is the me menu discussed in?
[05:09] <humphreybc> godbyk, i have a sentence here that i'm not sure about
[05:09] <humphreybc> it goes like this
[05:09] <humphreybc> Under 'What is your name?', type in your full name.
[05:09] <humphreybc> the whole ?', thing is a bit odd
[05:12] <godbyk> It is a bit awkward.  You could probably leave the comma out there, as the prepositional phrase "Under [blah]" is short enough that it doesn't need the comma.
[05:12] <godbyk> You should use double quotes, though.
[05:13] <godbyk> I'd rephrase:  Type in your full name under ``What is your name?''
[05:13] <godbyk> Then you don't need the comma.
[05:14] <humphreybc> ok
[05:14] <humphreybc> "Now you need to decide on your computer's name."
[05:14] <humphreybc> apostrophe needed for computer?
[05:15] <godbyk> yep
[05:15] <godbyk> it's possessive
[05:15] <godbyk> the name belonging to the computer.
[05:15] <humphreybc> kk
[05:17] <humphreybc> we need someone to write about the migration assistant
[05:18] <humphreybc> and also wubi.
[05:18] <humphreybc> i might see if i can sort that out
[05:20] <godbyk> They'd better hurry. :)
[05:21] <humphreybc> =|
[05:22] <donri> How stable is wubi though? Updating dad's wubi install kinda fucked it up several times until it completely stopped booting.
[05:22] <Red_HamsterX> Does "error", in the context of your bet, extend to syntax/punctuation?
[05:22] <donri> 9.10.
[05:22] <humphreybc> Red_HamsterX: whether it is an error is decided by Alan Pope :)
[05:22] <Red_HamsterX> So many names!
[05:22] <humphreybc> I think errors are grammar, punctuation, spelling, formatting, missing words etc
[05:23] <humphreybc> inconsistencies in formatting
[05:23] <humphreybc> donri: well wubi is included with Ubuntu by default so we need to cover it
[05:23]  * humphreybc is trying to think of a place to put the information about the file system structure
[05:24] <Red_HamsterX> As much as I love defining editorial styles and sticking to them, I don't see myself having enough free time to grammar-nazi 150+ pages. :(
[05:24] <donri> Wubi is lovely if it works, but I think does more harm than good if it can't handle things like updates, and updates are enabled by default.
[05:24] <Red_HamsterX> How much does an average user need to know about the filesystem?
[05:25] <humphreybc> not a whole lot, but it might be helpful to mention how it works and is different to their C drive etc
[05:25] <humphreybc> also how mounting drives/ USB flash disks get incorporated into the directory structure
[05:26] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, right. I completely forgot about the concept of drives.
[05:26]  * humphreybc has finished editing prologue and installation, now to make changes
[05:26] <Red_HamsterX> I thought you were going to explain something like the difference between bin and sbin and how /usr/local/ works under Debian.
[05:27]  * Red_HamsterX skims the chapters to provide an opinion.
[05:30] <Red_HamsterX> I'd probably expect to see it in a sub-section at the start of Chapter 3. Something like "Where are my files?" or "How can I share my files with others?"
[05:31] <Red_HamsterX> Though both of those questions need to be covered by a single header...
[05:31] <Red_HamsterX> And "file system" is a term I'm sure my mother wouldn't understand.
[05:32] <Red_HamsterX> "CDs and USB keys: what you need to know"?
[05:40] <humphreybc> hm
[05:45] <humphreybc> godbyk, the first bug I found was in the contents
[05:45] <humphreybc> the glossary isn't listed in the contents
[05:45] <humphreybc> there appears to be a space reserved for it however
[05:45] <godbyk> Space reserved for it?
[05:45] <humphreybc> yeah, it's weird
[05:46] <godbyk> okay. assign me a bug and I'll look at it when I'm done with this chapter.
[05:46] <humphreybc> okay
[05:50] <godbyk> lol
[05:51] <godbyk> look at the suggestion for row 348
[05:52] <humphreybc> hahaha
[05:52] <humphreybc> good man
[05:52] <humphreybc> godbyk, what's the correct syntax for chapter links?
[05:53] <godbyk> \chaplink{ch:label}
[05:53] <humphreybc> thought so
[05:55] <godbyk> If fixed almost all the bugs listed for this chapter. I'm going to print it out and edit it myself now, too.
[05:55] <humphreybc> awesome
[05:55] <godbyk> how are yours coming along?
[05:56] <humphreybc> good, i've marked all the bugs on paper for prologue and installation
[05:56] <humphreybc> just making changes in tex now
[05:56] <humphreybc> should finish the entire manual by sunday
[05:57] <godbyk> cool
[05:57] <humphreybc> I'm thinking, do we need our launchpad and the planet websites under contact details?
[05:57] <humphreybc> I would just go for home page, wiki and email
[05:57] <godbyk> Probably not.
[05:57] <humphreybc> or perhaps just our website and email
[05:58] <godbyk> Home page, email, and maybe IRC.
[05:58] <humphreybc> okay
[05:58] <humphreybc> IRC sounds good
[05:58] <godbyk> The wiki content should get moved over to our own site.
[05:58] <humphreybc> yeah it will do eventually
[05:59] <godbyk> I'm gonna sit across the room and scribble on the printout of this chapter.
[05:59] <humphreybc> okay
[05:59] <godbyk> feel free to ping me if you need anything.
[05:59] <humphreybc> how do I insert a # ?
[06:00] <humphreybc> godbyk?
[06:00] <godbyk> Oh, sure, wait until I just get settled in!
[06:00] <godbyk> Use \#
[06:00] <humphreybc> thanks
[06:00] <godbyk> Didn't you attend my LaTeX tutorial session?  :)
[06:00] <humphreybc> shush
[06:01] <godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/ubuntu-manual/talks/latex-handout.pdf
[06:01] <humphreybc> if you do the "conventions" section at the end of the prologue, we can mark the prologue as completely finished.
[06:19] <humphreybc> anyone know what the wording is on the button that is in the installer, where you can let Ubuntu detect your keyboard?
[06:20] <humphreybc> I've got it in here as "Guess" but I think it's something like "Let Ubuntu try to detect your keyboard"
[06:22] <godbyk> I don't remember what it said.
[08:38] <donri> humphreybc, I think it says "Guess", yes.
[08:38] <humphreybc> oh really?
[08:38] <humphreybc> that's weird
[08:38] <donri> I recall thinking it was somewhat cryptic, when I installed yesterdayish.
[08:39] <ubuntujenkins> MORE BUGS!
[08:40] <humphreybc> lol
[08:40] <donri> Bugs om nom nom.
[08:40] <ubuntujenkins> I think we should sort the spread sheet by page no we can sort duplicates easiyer then
[08:42] <humphreybc> that's a good idea
[08:42] <godbyk> go for it.
[08:42] <godbyk> that's what I did.
[08:42] <godbyk> I copied the spreadsheet to a local spreadsheet.
[08:42] <godbyk> then filtered for the pages in the chapter I was editing.
[08:42] <godbyk> you'll want to sort by both rev and page num.
[08:42] <godbyk> (since the pages change from revision to revision)
[08:43] <godbyk> when you guys have finished with the bulk of the edits you're working on, give me a holler and I'll upload a new draft.
[08:44] <ubuntujenkins> can we do it on the main sheet or will it mess the form up?
[08:45] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: good question.
[08:46] <godbyk> I'm pretty sure we can sort and it'll be fine.
[08:46] <godbyk> I don't know if auto-updates will be sorted or not.
[08:47] <ubuntujenkins> I guess the auto-updates will not be sorted, I have to run to lectures now I will lok later
[08:47] <godbyk> k
[08:51] <nisshh> hey all
[08:51] <donri> Hello some.
[08:53] <nisshh> hey donri, havent seen you in here before, you a team member?
[08:54] <donri> I'm just a consumer who does no good.
[08:55] <humphreybc> haha
[08:57] <nisshh> hehe
[09:11]  * humphreybc has finished editing the hell out of the prologue, installation and The Ubuntu Desktop chapters
[09:14] <nisshh> nice
[09:30] <humphreybc> godbyk, howcome italics don't work in margin notes?
[09:30] <godbyk> humphreybc: because there is no italic sans serif font.
[09:30] <humphreybc> oh
[09:34]  * humphreybc has finished editing chapter 2, committing and pushing
[09:37] <humphreybc> okay pushed
[09:37] <humphreybc> everyone pull and make the manual and observe the beauty that is the prologue, chapters 1 and 2
[09:48] <donri> Is http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ up to date?
[09:48] <humphreybc> should be
[09:48] <humphreybc> oh godbyk, can you please update the draft
[09:48] <godbyk> sure.
[09:48] <godbyk> gimme a sec.
[09:48] <humphreybc> hopefully we'll make some people happy as there should be 0 errors in the first three chapters now :D
[09:48] <humphreybc> okay maybe not 0, I have to go back through them and double check
[09:52] <godbyk> pushing
[09:53] <humphreybc> swell
[09:53] <godbyk> pushed
[09:53] <donri> The wrapping algorithm is a little weird, do you have any control over it?
[09:53] <donri> Page 7, a URL breaks after "http:".
[09:53] <humphreybc> yeah a lot of URLs are breaking after the http bit
[09:54] <godbyk> URLs are a pain in the butt to wrap
[09:54] <donri> Is it really "on-line"?
[09:55] <godbyk> I'm okay with online.
[09:55] <donri> Also, are non-technicals familiar with the term "docs"?
[09:55] <godbyk> spell out 'docs' -> documentation
[09:56] <donri> "on-line docs" in the margin notes on page 7.
[09:57] <donri> I read somewhere you prefer guided clicks to arrows, the first such click-steps are arrowed on page 7. "System → Help and Support".
[09:59] <donri> Why is it wrapping "connecting" into "connect-ing"?
[10:00] <godbyk> Because it can?
[10:00] <humphreybc> fix the wrapping you cock godbyk :)
[10:00] <humphreybc> :P
[10:00] <godbyk> LaTeX's wrapping algorithm is literally the best in existence. :)
[10:00] <humphreybc> uh hu
[10:01] <humphreybc> is that why it's stuck a screenshot just before the last word in a paragraph
[10:01] <humphreybc> so it goes blah blah blah blah.... SCREENSHOT.... "packages."
[10:01] <humphreybc> :P
[10:01] <godbyk> heh.
[10:01] <humphreybc> I destroyed all of the nice formatting in chapter 2
[10:01] <humphreybc> by putting in more screenshots and margin notes
[10:02] <humphreybc> the worst ones are the times where it has the section header at the bottom of one page, then it has the next bit on the next page
[10:02] <godbyk> It has to fill the page in any way it can.
[10:03] <godbyk> Once all the writing is truly finalized, I'll be tweaking the formatting to make it all awesome.
[10:03] <donri> Does a colon feel more natural after "Ask taken from the Ubuntu website, [URL]." instead of the period (ubuntu promise, page 8)?
[10:03]  * humphreybc needs food
[10:04] <donri> (humphreybc wanted perfection, so I'm going OCD on this. Ignore me whenever you feel like it. :))
[10:04] <godbyk> donri: OCD away!
[10:04] <godbyk> I'm saving my OCDing until later this week. :)
[10:05] <donri> I can't save OCDing, as I actually have it.
[10:06] <humphreybc> lolo
[10:06] <godbyk> I nit-pick a LOT when it comes to editing things like this.
[10:06] <humphreybc> the manual isn't long enough
[10:06] <humphreybc> by the way
[10:06] <godbyk> So it's better if I save my energy to find the small bugs at the end than to freak out about 20 bugs per page right now. :)
[10:06] <donri> Missing a period in the margin note on page 8.
[10:06] <godbyk> I'll let others find the obvious bugs. :)
[10:07] <humphreybc> I purposely left out some periods where the margin note ends with a URL.
[10:07] <donri> Feels wrong to me.
[10:07] <godbyk> You should add the periods.
[10:07] <humphreybc> just in case people think the period is part of the URL when they're reading it off the page
[10:07] <godbyk> It's a complete sentence.
[10:07] <humphreybc> sigh
[10:07] <godbyk> Some notes I made about mistakes I kept seeing over and over again:
[10:08] <godbyk> Use American quotation marks: `` and ''.  Also, following the (insane) punctuation rules, too.  So commas and a lot of other punctuation goes inside the quotation marks.
[10:08] <humphreybc> okay
[10:08] <humphreybc> that's what we do in NZ too
[10:09] <godbyk> Title case chapter headings and sentence case section headings.  (I think humphreybc fixed most these already.)
[10:09] <godbyk> Use serial commas.
[10:09] <humphreybc> "Sam," said the shop attendant, "Sam, what's the matter?"
[10:09] <godbyk> Make sure there are periods at the end of the sidenotes.
[10:09] <godbyk> humphreybc: yep.
[10:10] <humphreybc> that was actually a pretty nice line of dialogue, if I don't say so myself
[10:10] <humphreybc> (writing convincing natural sounding dialogue is the hardest thing in fiction writing)
[10:10] <donri> BTW, B/W will suck and if it's a difference of a few dollars... make the colored version clearly available and note its superior awesomeness.
[10:10] <humphreybc> It's not really a difference of a "few" dollars
[10:10] <humphreybc> try like, 10x more expensive
[10:11] <godbyk> Well, 4x as expensive. :)
[10:11] <humphreybc> $6 USD or $50?
[10:11] <donri> Oh, I thought it was $6 vs $10.
[10:11] <humphreybc> Or is that for the hardback version?
[10:11] <godbyk> Lemme look again.
[10:11] <humphreybc> lol
[10:12] <humphreybc> did you include a brick in your latest push godbyk
[10:12] <humphreybc> the pull is quite large
[10:12] <godbyk> Added a PDF. :)
[10:12] <donri> What VCS are you guys using?
[10:14] <godbyk> Standard paper (as opposed to the cheapskate paper), paperback, black and white, US letter size, perfect bound, 180 pages (estimating), single purchase = $10
[10:14] <godbyk> donri: bzr
[10:14] <donri> Good. :)
[10:14] <humphreybc> not an SVN guy then?
[10:14] <humphreybc> I think we'll go for that one as our baseline godbyk
[10:15] <godbyk> Same but with color = $41.50
[10:15] <donri> I'm an ex-gitting bazaar enthusiast.
[10:15] <humphreybc> and same with colour and hardback?
[10:15] <humphreybc> (do we really need hardback?)
[10:15] <humphreybc> (i'm going to say no)
[10:16] <godbyk> $51 (with slightly smaller pages)
[10:17] <donri> Some people probably don't mind those dollars, and hardback feels way more quality.
[10:17]  * humphreybc just pushed fixes to missing periods
[10:17] <humphreybc> $51USD with exchange rate + shipping to countries outside of the US would be pricey
[10:17] <donri> Just provide cheaper options.
[10:18] <donri> Is this print on demand?
[10:18] <godbyk> humphreybc: With an extra note, even: This product is manufactured in the U.S. Shipping rates will be high for customers outside of the U.S.
[10:18] <godbyk> donri: yeah.  lulu.com
[10:19] <donri> Do they only print in the U.S. though?
[10:19] <humphreybc> I say we do versions, both in paperback to not over confuse anyone. We're not big enough or complicated enough to deserve "hardback" status, and because we release a new version every 6 months, it's not like we have to be hardback because we don't have to last that long till the new one is released
[10:19] <humphreybc> do two versions*
[10:19] <humphreybc> books that only come out once every 10 years or so get hardback editions
[10:19] <godbyk> plus, we'll have all those translations to deal with.
[10:19] <humphreybc> I think paperback would work fine for our needs
[10:19] <humphreybc> so we could have Basic which is the $10 one in black and white, and Colour which is the $47 one
[10:20] <humphreybc> Colour could be called "Premium" or something
[10:20] <donri> humphreybc, hardbacks for LTS? :)
[10:20] <humphreybc> yeah
[10:20] <humphreybc> donri: didn't think about that
[10:20] <humphreybc> how will the translated manuals work kevin?
[10:20] <humphreybc> (for publishing)
[10:20] <godbyk> same way
[10:20] <godbyk> I just upload a PDF.
[10:20] <humphreybc> ah okay
[10:20] <humphreybc> one at a time?
[10:21] <godbyk> yep
[10:21] <humphreybc> righto
[10:21] <humphreybc> each translated PDF will need to be signed off
[10:21] <godbyk> yep
[10:21] <donri> $47 and $51 isn't that different.
[10:21] <godbyk> they'll have to be edited, too.
[10:21] <humphreybc> to ensure we aren't uploading any low quality ones, you know, with strings missing or bad formatting
[10:21] <humphreybc> we could do a paperback black and white edition for $10 and then a hardback colour version for $51
[10:22]  * humphreybc hates to think how much it's going to cost me to get the hardback version
[10:22] <donri> Maybe I could help with the Swedish translation.
[10:22] <humphreybc> $51 USD in NZD is about $80 NZD + shipping to NZ which would be huge
[10:23] <humphreybc> over $100 probably, for a manual that I am team leader for :P
[10:23] <humphreybc> i wonder if it would be cheaper if someone stateside bought one for me and shipped it to me, instead of lulu doing it
[10:24] <godbyk> Or have someone drop it off at a conference you're at or something.
[10:24] <humphreybc> true
[10:24] <humphreybc> :P
[10:24] <humphreybc> like... UDS?
[10:24] <humphreybc> cough
[10:24] <humphreybc> I'd probably buy at least two copies, so I can give mum one
[10:25] <godbyk> I don't know if they'll ship in time for UDS or not.
[10:25] <humphreybc> well we'll have to stick them on lulu before the 29th
[10:25] <humphreybc> so they can be ordered on the 29th
[10:25] <humphreybc> I wonder if it would be cheaper for me to get it printed in colour here
[10:29] <humphreybc> James Holland wants to sell our manual along with a CD and a support package
[10:29] <humphreybc> "On Lulu is there a way to save a project so people can order runs of it themselves? I'm looking at selling this along with a CD and support package."
[10:30] <humphreybc> I guess he's allowed to do that
[10:30] <humphreybc> it would be cool if we could bundle a CD with it
[10:30] <godbyk> Yeah, he can do that.
[10:30] <humphreybc> you know how those books have the CDs in the back cover
[10:31] <godbyk> And if you order in bulk, the prices go down.
[10:31]  * humphreybc should order in bulk and sell them on trademe
[10:31] <humphreybc> lol
[10:32] <godbyk> I don't know about putting the CD in the book.  But you can publish/order CDs via lulu.com, too.
[10:32] <donri> A proper, pressed shipit-like CD.
[10:32] <humphreybc> heh
[10:32] <humphreybc> Canonical should do an order for like 5000 and give them away to people
[10:32] <humphreybc> especially people at UDS...
[10:32] <humphreybc> should come with the free t shirt you get for going to UDS
[10:32] <humphreybc> :D
[10:33] <godbyk> heh
[10:33] <humphreybc> "here, have this t shirt and this lovely book"
[10:33]  * humphreybc needs to get chips
[10:33] <humphreybc> back soon
[10:33] <donri> "Also, here are some daring pictures of Mark."
[10:37] <humphreybc> hahaha
[10:38] <donri> Hey, that's a good idea for the manual cover.
[10:38] <humphreybc> lol
[10:38] <humphreybc> everyone has this fascination with Mark
[10:38] <humphreybc> it's quite comical
[10:38] <humphreybc> and i have hot chips now
[10:38] <humphreybc> it's really quite cold
[10:48] <donri> Page 9, margin notes, weird chapter link.
[10:48] <humphreybc> have you been reading all this time?
[10:49] <donri> websites such as "YouTube and Google.com" my OCD thinks this is somewhat inconsistent.
[10:49] <donri> Nope.
[10:49] <humphreybc> did the .com because google owns youtube
[10:49] <humphreybc> ill probably change it
[10:52] <donri> And suddenly the URL-ending margin note does end in a period. At least be consistent! :)
[10:53] <humphreybc> hey
[10:53] <humphreybc> i told you to pull
[10:53] <humphreybc> i fixed them all
[10:54] <donri> rev 561?
[10:55] <humphreybc> i'll check hang on
[10:56] <humphreybc> rev 563
[10:56] <humphreybc> if you pull, they'll be fixed
[10:56] <humphreybc> oh but do you not have latex?
[10:56] <donri> Then the builds site is lagging behind.
[10:56] <humphreybc> yeah it is
[10:56] <humphreybc> because godbyk has to manually run each build
[10:56] <godbyk> right
[10:56] <donri> Oh. :(
[10:56] <humphreybc> and he only does it when he feels like it's necessary :)
[10:56] <godbyk> though I ran it when you told me to push the new pdf.
[10:57] <godbyk> you didn't have the periods then.
[10:57] <donri> I totally thought that was automated.
[10:57] <humphreybc> nah
[10:57] <humphreybc> do you think the bit on Wubi should be before the main installation instructions?
[10:58] <humphreybc> at the moment it's not given in enough detail so i just included it near the end of the installation chapter as a sort of "after thought" type mention and explanation of what it is
[10:59] <godbyk> no
[10:59] <godbyk> I'd do wubi afterward as an alternative.
[11:00] <donri> Maybe hint at its existence first, referring to its section.
[11:06] <humphreybc> ah mattgriffin
[11:07] <humphreybc> just who I need to see :)
[11:07] <mattgriffin> heh
[11:07] <humphreybc> i'm sure you know what I'm going to say :P
[11:07] <mattgriffin> humphreybc: speak softly. just woke up
[11:07] <humphreybc> haha
[11:09] <humphreybc> okay so we're 6 days away from the writing freeze and don't have any documentation on rhythmbox, the music store or ubuntu one
[11:11] <mattgriffin> humphreybc: er... the rbox and music store stuff is done. it's in my branch. what do you want me to do next?
[11:11] <humphreybc> what format is it in?
[11:11] <humphreybc> plain text?
[11:12] <ubuntujenkins> Are its in bzr branch lp:~mattgriffin/ubuntu-manual/rbox-docs
[11:12] <mattgriffin> ubuntujenkins: si
[11:12]  * humphreybc grabs the branch
[11:13]  * ubuntujenkins all ready doing it
[11:13] <humphreybc> okay
[11:13] <humphreybc> so we need to put it into the manual and presumably add latex code to it
[11:13] <humphreybc> mattgriffin, have you got some documentation for Ubuntu One?
[11:14] <mattgriffin> humphreybc: not yet. i'll have to get to it during my afternoon.
[11:14] <humphreybc> okay cool
[11:14] <humphreybc> you don't have any official docs anywhere you can just copy?
[11:14] <ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/400500/ ryhtam box docs
[11:15] <humphreybc> oh matt, you've formatted it in latex!
[11:15] <mattgriffin> humphreybc: most of the docs already do exist in our tutorials but some changes and additions are needed for some of the 10.04 enhancements and new features - wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Tutorials
[11:15] <humphreybc> okay
[11:15] <ubuntujenkins> mattgriffin do you want to add it to main?
[11:16] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: we have to work out where to put it first
[11:16] <humphreybc> hold on
[11:16] <ubuntujenkins> the file for it is there
[11:16] <humphreybc> okay, leave it to me, i'll put it in main and push
[11:17] <mattgriffin> humphreybc: thanks. would i typically "Propose for merging"
[11:17] <humphreybc> mattgriffin: nah, we don't do merges around here, no itme
[11:17] <humphreybc> time*
[11:17] <ubuntujenkins> ok cool
[11:17] <mattgriffin> ok
[11:17] <humphreybc> :P
[11:18] <humphreybc> matt, check out http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-04-in-real-life/
[11:18] <mattgriffin> nice
[11:19] <humphreybc> :)
[11:19] <humphreybc> it's going to look great when it's finished and translated
[11:19] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: we need to sort out the screenshots we are now way over 52 and not all of them show in the screenshots log
[11:20] <humphreybc> yeah
[11:20] <ubuntujenkins> also how are we going to get this one? Chapter 1, page 20: Wubi in Windows 7
[11:20] <ubuntujenkins> in all languages?
[11:20] <humphreybc> yep
[11:20] <humphreybc> it'll have to be
[11:21] <ubuntujenkins> can someone who has windows do a sample please?
[11:23] <ubuntujenkins> who asked for that screenshot?
[11:23] <humphreybc> me
[11:23] <ubuntujenkins> grrr you are doing them all then :-P
[11:23] <humphreybc> lol
[11:24] <ubuntujenkins> I think we will have to cu abut 10 screenshots if we wan tto stick to 50
[11:24] <humphreybc> 50 isn't as important now as it used to be
[11:24] <humphreybc> there are some parts that desperately need screenshots
[11:24] <humphreybc> we can take out some of the ones taken by that dude
[11:24] <humphreybc> Sarantan
[11:24] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: the screenshots look good when printed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4459042125/sizes/o/
[11:24] <ubuntujenkins> planing to I was going to see which ones are important
[11:25] <ubuntujenkins> not bad suprizingly good
[11:25] <humphreybc> they're really nice
[11:25] <humphreybc> that photo doesn't do justice
[11:25] <humphreybc> will be really nice in colour and printed with a proper book press
[11:26] <ubuntujenkins> I have done about 25 sample screenshots so far I just need to work out how to do half of the others.
[11:26] <humphreybc> awesome
[11:26] <ubuntujenkins> do you have a windows 7 box?
[11:26] <humphreybc> godbyk and I were talking about getting all the shots in english now
[11:26] <humphreybc> nope i don't sorry
[11:26] <humphreybc> someone will though
[11:26] <ubuntujenkins> I am doing the english ones this week
[11:26] <humphreybc> fantastic :)
[11:26] <ubuntujenkins> we need them as samples for quickshot
[11:27] <humphreybc> with default theme and stuff?
[11:27] <ubuntujenkins> yep of course and at the right resolution
[11:27] <humphreybc> you're a legend
[11:28] <ubuntujenkins> erm ok
[11:29] <humphreybc> (it's a new zealand thing)
[11:29] <humphreybc> means you're wicked, awesome
[11:29] <humphreybc> etc
[11:29] <godbyk> You guys have fun with that. I'm off to bed.  (It's 6:30 in the morning here.) :)
[11:29] <ubuntujenkins> I know, just not sure I am that amazing :-)
[11:29] <ubuntujenkins> night godbyk
[11:29] <humphreybc> ha
[11:29] <humphreybc> see ya kevin
[11:29] <godbyk> Ta!
[11:30] <ubuntujenkins> I think some of the screenshots can be used in all languages
[11:31] <ubuntujenkins> someone needs to format Sarantan stuff
[11:31] <humphreybc> ugh
[11:32] <ubuntujenkins> I am thinking of removing all but the screenshot that shows you where the bluetooth menu is
[11:33] <ubuntujenkins> some of it is ok but it needs some work
[11:34] <humphreybc> yeah
[11:34] <humphreybc> what did he actually add?
[11:34] <ubuntujenkins> sound and bluetooth so far one sound screen that is no help and all of the stages in the bluetootj setup
[11:36] <humphreybc> mattgriffin: what's your canonical email address?
[11:36] <mattgriffin> humphreybc: matt.griffin@canonical.com
[11:36] <humphreybc> the bluetooth setup can be useful i guess
[11:36] <humphreybc> thanks
[11:36] <ubuntujenkins> it is usefull but each screen isn't needed they are wel described and relitily simple
[11:36] <humphreybc> yeah
[11:36] <ubuntujenkins> *relativley
[11:37] <ubuntujenkins> If we keep them then we should have e-mail accout setup screens and empathy and all of the gwibber ones
[11:37] <humphreybc> we're not going to keep those ones
[11:38] <ubuntujenkins> good I shall remove them now
[11:39]  * humphreybc is pushing the rbox docs in the manual now
[11:39] <ubuntujenkins> ok
[11:39] <humphreybc> so pull before you make any changes to anything please :)
[11:39] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: when do you estimate you'll have all of the screenshots completed in english?
[11:41] <ubuntujenkins> erm hopefully friday night I have a test this week and i am having issues with virtualbox
[11:41] <humphreybc> okay
[11:41] <humphreybc> great
[11:41] <ubuntujenkins> if i am lucky 70% tonight
[11:41] <humphreybc> start putting them in main
[11:42] <humphreybc> but don't remove the screenshotTODO command that contains the description
[11:42] <humphreybc> just comment it for now
[11:42] <ubuntujenkins> will, do I need godbyk to make the ones that are already there to show in the screenshot log
[11:42] <humphreybc> true, talk to him
[11:42] <humphreybc> we need to make sure we finalize all the wording for the captions before writing freeze
[11:42] <ubuntujenkins> I asked hm but he had dogy internet
[11:42] <humphreybc> so if we have the screenshots it'll be much easier to write good captions
[11:42] <ubuntujenkins> cool
[11:43] <humphreybc> somehow we need to have the descriptions remain so you guys can put them into quickshot
[11:43] <godbyk-android2> Remind me again when I wake up.
[11:43] <humphreybc> godbyk-android2: okay
[11:43] <humphreybc> i'll email you now :)
[11:43] <ubuntujenkins> will do godbyk-android2
[11:44] <ubuntujenkins> also i ahev aproblem with no network icon in the quickshot user
[11:44] <humphreybc> have you tried a killall gnome-panel?
[11:45] <humphreybc> that usually fixes it
[11:45] <ubuntujenkins> I will try it in a moment
[11:57]  * ubuntujenkins screenshots changes pushed
[12:00] <ubuntujenkins> mattgriffin comments on my bug :-)
[12:00] <mattgriffin> ubuntujenkins: which one was that?
[12:00] <ubuntujenkins> bug 544458
[12:01] <ubuntujenkins> can't play all songs samples
[12:01] <ubuntujenkins> bot bug #544458
[12:01] <humphreybc> manualbot aint here
[12:01] <humphreybc> he died :(
[12:01] <ubuntujenkins> I just realized sad day
[12:02] <mattgriffin> ubuntujenkins: yeah. that would be a cool feature. got a meeting in 2 hours to review all of the bugs so far so just getting ready.
[12:02] <ubuntujenkins> amazon has it I found it anoying on first use
[12:03] <ubuntujenkins> and seven digital site has it
[12:03] <humphreybc> matt, you know my bugs
[12:03] <humphreybc> :)
[12:05] <luke-quickshot> humphreybc, killall gnome-panel doesn't help
[12:06] <humphreybc> that sucks
[12:11] <luke-quickshot> who wrote security?
[12:11] <humphreybc> nisshh
[12:11] <humphreybc> howcome?
[12:11] <humphreybc> it needs a lot of work
[12:12] <luke-quickshot> well he would like a screenshot of gufw but quickshot is an unprivaliged user and getting that screenshot is hard
[12:12] <humphreybc> ah
[12:12] <humphreybc> forget it then
[12:12] <luke-quickshot> one off the list
[12:14] <luke-quickshot> what about chapter 2? This one is a good idea but is  also not possible NOT POSSIBLE - Chapter 2, page 27: Resize mouse pointer that appears when resizing window
[12:14] <luke-quickshot> and who did chapter 1?
[12:15] <humphreybc> i did chapter 1
[12:16] <humphreybc> yeah the resizing mouse pointer thing might be a mission
[12:16] <humphreybc> remove that.
[12:16] <luke-quickshot> woo
[12:16] <luke-quickshot> I like the idea though
[12:17] <luke-quickshot> also why have we got two Chapter 1, page 12: Ubuntu Live CD `Welcome' screen
[12:17] <luke-quickshot> Chapter 1, page 14: Ubuntu Live CD `Welcome' screen in chapter one
[12:17] <luke-quickshot> are they ment to be the same thing?
[12:17] <humphreybc> no
[12:18] <humphreybc> one of them is now removed
[12:18] <humphreybc> or should be
[12:18] <humphreybc> I fixed that in like revision 561 or something
[12:19] <luke-quickshot> ok the list in the wuickshot user is out of dat by a few hours i guess
[12:20] <humphreybc> yeah
[12:23] <luke-quickshot> humphreybc, are you running lucid?
[12:23] <humphreybc> yep
[12:24] <luke-quickshot> do you have a music cd?
[12:24] <humphreybc> yep
[12:24] <humphreybc> I'll take that screenshot for you soon :)
[12:24] <luke-quickshot> thanks i have none at uni
[12:24] <humphreybc> is it of the CD playlist screen
[12:24] <humphreybc> ?
[12:24] <luke-quickshot> nope
[12:25] <humphreybc> if it's just of the main window there will be no music
[12:25] <luke-quickshot> put the cd in and open up rytham box and just show the main screen. I think thats what mattgriffin ment by \screenshotTODO{Rhythmbox application with a CD inserted}
[12:25] <humphreybc> mattgriffin: can you clarify please
[12:25] <mattgriffin> luke-quickshot: yes
[12:25] <humphreybc> okay cool
[12:26] <luke-quickshot> thanks
[12:26] <mattgriffin> thank you
[12:28] <luke-quickshot> I will be back
[13:48] <ubuntujenkins> jaminday1: are you editing any files at the moment?
[13:48] <jaminday1> hey ubuntujenkins, no not right at this moment.
[13:49] <jaminday1> I just got home and about to go to bed
[13:49] <jaminday1> how come?
[13:49] <ubuntujenkins> thats ok then I am adding screenshots thats all adn didn't want our work to clashif we edit the same file
[13:49] <jaminday1> ah ok, no problem
[13:50] <jaminday1> I'm off work next two days so in about 8 hours i'll be getting stuck into it good and proper
[13:50] <jaminday1> 48 hour bug-fixing marrathon!
[13:50] <ubuntujenkins> nice I will have done most of them by then
[13:50] <jaminday1> *marathon
[13:50] <jaminday1> cool good work
[13:50] <jaminday1> How big a problem would it be if a screenshot changed as I go through tomorrow
[13:51] <ubuntujenkins> As long as its not all of them, I expect you will want to change the captions I ahev removed some since last time you looked
[13:51] <ubuntujenkins> *some screenshots
[13:52] <jaminday1> ah ok. If there's any screenshot stuff that really needs changing i will let you know, but otherwise will try and keep things as is if possible
[13:53] <ubuntujenkins> Thats fine with me.
[13:54] <jaminday1> Will you be around tomorrow?
[13:54] <jaminday1> (Well, might not be tomorrow for you)
[13:55] <ubuntujenkins> erm I have a day of lectures I will leave irc on and just ping me I will look when i get back i am gmt time
[13:55] <jaminday1> cool sounds good
[13:58] <ubuntujenkins> bzr push
[16:02]  * ubuntujenkins thinks this screenshot needs a crop http://imagebin.org/90168
[16:18] <ubuntujenkins> is Elan Kugelmass here?
[16:22] <Red_HamsterX> Cropped? Why? I like black.
[16:23] <ubuntujenkins> i just seams a waste of ink
[16:23] <ubuntujenkins>  there are 34 sample screenshots on the quickshot branch now
[16:24] <Red_HamsterX> Yay.
[16:24] <Red_HamsterX> Also, <sarcasm/>
[16:24] <ubuntujenkins> there will be more soon
[16:25] <Red_HamsterX> More sarcasm or reference screenshots?
[16:25] <Red_HamsterX> I hope for both.
[16:25] <ubuntujenkins> more screenshots
[17:36] <dutchie> o/
[18:10] <ubuntujenkins> hello dutchie o/
[18:35] <godbyk> I'm back now.
[18:35] <godbyk> Though I may have to disappear in a hurry when the Internet repair guy shows up.
[18:35] <dutchie> "Hi, I'm here to fix The Internet"
[18:35] <godbyk> (Of course the Internet is working right now, but I'm going to have him check the signal on the lines anyway.)
[18:36]  * dutchie thinks that fixing the internet would require a very large spanner
[18:36] <dutchie> and a colossal amount of duct tape
[18:36] <ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk
[18:36] <ubuntujenkins> duck tape ftw
[18:37] <godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins.
[18:37] <godbyk> duct tape is awesome.
[18:37] <ubuntujenkins>  have you seen the screenshots there are more
[18:37] <ubuntujenkins> only 20 left to take
[18:37] <godbyk> I was just reading through the bzr logs
[18:37] <godbyk> nice!
[18:38] <godbyk> So one thing we can do is leave the \screenshotTODO commands and I'll just make them write to the file but not draw anything in the PDF.
[18:38] <ubuntujenkins> any thought on these 3 Chapter 8, page 136: Screenshot of a virtual terminal (i.e. ctrl-alt-F1)
[18:38] <ubuntujenkins> Chapter 8, page 137: GRUB screen with Rescue Mode option highlighted Chapter 1, page 20: Installation: The Ubuntu login window
[18:38] <godbyk> The \screenshot command will draw an empty box and say 'file not found' if you point it at a non-existent file.
[18:38] <godbyk> So that can serve as the placeholder.
[18:38] <ubuntujenkins> that would work godbyk I haven't removed them
[18:38] <godbyk> Oooh.. um.. fake them?
[18:38] <ubuntujenkins> I knoticed I pointed it a the wrong file name
[18:38] <godbyk> Or snag them from a virtualbox session?
[18:39] <Red_HamsterX> Couldn't you also just pipe the file through sed/'grep -v' before compiling it?
[18:39] <ubuntujenkins> I can't get a virtual box to go to 1024X786
[18:39] <Red_HamsterX> 768*
[18:39] <dutchie> my laptop is held together with duct tape
[18:45] <godbyk> So's my brain.
[19:05] <godbyk> I'm going to make a series of commits for simple, but global changes.  Like ensuring that "Internet" is always capitalized and "email" is spelled without the hyphen.  Will that adversely affect anyone at the moment?
[19:05] <ubuntujenkins> not here
[19:06] <godbyk> 'kay.
[19:11] <godbyk> I'll brb. gonna fix a sandwich.
[19:16] <Daker> hi @all
[19:16] <ubuntujenkins> hello Daker
[19:17] <Daker> working ?
[19:17] <ubuntujenkins> revising
[19:20] <godbyk> back
[19:45] <godbyk> Internet repair guys will be here in about 10 minutes. Yay.
[20:04]  * ubuntujenkins well humphreybc can't have his wubi screenshots, the wubi doesn't work in windows 7 (at the moment)
[20:27] <godbyk> Okay, I'm back now.
[20:28] <godbyk> We just replaced a bunch of the cable splitters with barrel connectors since I'm not using most of the connections anyway.
[20:28] <godbyk> So that should improve the signal on the line and make my Internet work smoother.
[20:28] <godbyk> We'll see how it goes, I guess.
[20:28] <godbyk> :)
[20:28] <ubuntujenkins> we shall in deed
[20:30]  * dutchie has another shot at doing a deb package
[20:35] <godbyk> dutchie: a deb for the manual or for quickshot?
[20:35] <ubuntujenkins> manual
[20:35] <dutchie> so we can have auto-updated dailies
[20:35] <ubuntujenkins> quickshot is easy "quickly package"
[20:35] <godbyk> nice.
[20:40] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie debs look veyr hard
[20:41] <dutchie> they are hard to do right
[20:42] <dutchie> a cat has come to help
[20:42] <godbyk> dutchie: Is it possible to pull down the latest .po files without affecting the translators?
[20:42] <dutchie> you can make LP email them to you iirc
[20:42] <godbyk> (Just so I can see how the various translations are progressing.)
[20:44] <dutchie> godbyk: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+export
[20:45] <godbyk> thanks.
[20:45] <godbyk> and that'll just email me the files that I can dump into our po/ dir?
[20:45] <ubuntujenkins> it e-mails you a link
[20:45] <dutchie> to a tarball
[20:46] <godbyk> okay
[20:46] <godbyk> you'd better stick around to hold my hand.  I don't want to bork something and have hundreds of angry translators storming my house. :)
[20:47] <dutchie> heh
[20:47] <dutchie> don't think you can go too far wrong just extracting the tarball into the po dir
[20:47] <dutchie> it's when you start mucking around with po4a deleting old translations that things can end up in a mess
[20:48] <godbyk> gotcha.
[20:53] <godbyk> Browsers used by visitors to ubuntu-manual.org:
[20:53] <godbyk> Firefox: 57.67%
[20:53] <godbyk> Chrome 27.04%
[20:53] <godbyk> IE: 5.06%
[20:53] <godbyk> Mozilla: 4.08%
[20:53] <godbyk> Opera: 3.64%
[20:55] <ubuntujenkins> nice
[20:57]  * dutchie thinks the branch is far too big :O
[21:05] <ubuntujenkins> I will be back I am going to do the installtion screenshot
[21:08] <inetpro> godbyk: nice, and the actual numbers?
[21:11] <godbyk> The number to match those percentages?  Or visitors each day?
[21:11] <godbyk> The percentage align to 5519, 2588, 484, 390, and 348, respectively.
[21:11] <godbyk> On March 22, we had 1,015 visitors.
[21:12] <godbyk> Though that number may be a bit short because I didn't have the analytics running the entire time.
[21:12] <godbyk> (I hadn't added the stats code to Daker's new site and just remembered later in the day.)
[21:15] <godbyk> woohoo! new translations are here.
[21:15] <godbyk> let me drop them in.
[21:16] <godbyk> bah!
[21:16] <godbyk> I have to rename them.
[21:16] <godbyk> lame!
[21:18] <godbyk> yay, bash!  for i in ubuntu-manual-*.po; do mv $i `echo $i | cut -d"-" -f3`; done
[21:21] <godbyk> dutchie: do I want to use the .pot files that came from that launchpad tgz, too?
[21:21] <ubuntujenkins> clean install in 15 minutes ubuntu rules
[21:21] <godbyk> or will that hork the translators' work?
[21:21] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: nice!
[21:21] <dutchie> godbyk: no, leave the .pot file as-is
[21:21] <dutchie> godbyk: you know you can do that all in one go with suitable tar options?
[21:22] <dutchie> namely --exclude=*.pot --transform='s/ubuntu-manual-(.*\.po)/\1/'
[21:24] <dutchie> godbyk: can you give me a list of build-time dependencies (just for the non-localised version for now)?
[21:24] <godbyk> dutchie: what kind of deps are you looking for?
[21:24] <godbyk> the install-pkgs.sh lists most of them
[21:24] <ubuntujenkins> is any one editing chapter 1?
[21:24] <dutchie> are all of those really needed?
[21:25] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: I think Ben is
[21:25] <ubuntujenkins> now?
[21:25] <godbyk> dutchie: and what command do those options apply to?
[21:26] <dutchie> tar
[21:26] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: more or less
[21:26] <godbyk> well, they're needed to guarantee that any of the translations will compile.
[21:26] <godbyk> you'll need all the TeX packages listed there.
[21:26] <ubuntujenkins> he isn't viewing the bug doc dutchie, i just need to add the screenshots
[21:26] <godbyk> but not all the fonts (Ubuntu pkgs)
[21:27] <godbyk> ah, gotcha.  I didn't know what files were in the tarball, though. :)
[21:30] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: oh, go for it.
[21:30] <godbyk> he's not actively editing right this moment.
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> I don't think so
[21:31] <godbyk> crap.. I broke something. :-(
[21:33]  * dutchie likes semi-transparent terminals
[21:34] <ubuntujenkins> .me agrees
[21:34]  * ubuntujenkins agrees
[21:34] <dutchie> I can read the description off the website straight into my editor
[21:34] <godbyk> I didn't break something, wolter did. ha!
[21:34]  * godbyk was trying to figure out how adding two little commas broke the build!
[21:34] <ubuntujenkins> what did he break it with?
[21:36] <godbyk> as soon as I've fixed it, I'll let you know. :)
[21:37] <ubuntujenkins> probably a typo we all make mistakes
[21:37] <godbyk> I think it was adding \begin{comment} and \end{comment} in the middle of a list.
[21:37] <godbyk> well, that fixed one problem.
[21:37] <godbyk> now he's got a \then outside of the \menu command.
[21:39] <godbyk> I understand making mistakes.  I make plenty of typos.
[21:39] <godbyk> It would be helpful (and save me a lot of grief) if people would try compiling their stuff before they commit it, though.
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> true, i always do \textbf{} and \textfb{}
[21:40] <godbyk> Spurious closing brace.
[21:40] <godbyk> I think it's compiling okay now.
[21:40] <godbyk> lemme commit those fixes
[21:41] <godbyk> okay, pushed.
[21:41] <ubuntujenkins> ta
[21:42] <dutchie> that's going to wreak havoc with my debianisation
[21:42] <godbyk> heh.
[21:42] <godbyk> aren't you just wrapping a PDF up into a deb?
[21:42] <ubuntujenkins> if you wait 5 mins you can have screenshots as well
[21:43] <godbyk> dutchie: obviously the solution is for you to be less efficient. :)
[21:43] <ubuntujenkins> how do i find my bzr revison number?
[21:44] <ubuntujenkins> bzr revno
[21:47] <dutchie> godbyk: heh
[21:47] <ubuntujenkins> pushed more screenshots :-)
[21:47] <dutchie> godbyk: I'm having to completely rewrap the CC license
[21:47] <dutchie> s/license/licence/
[21:47]  * dutchie will retain his britishness
[21:48] <godbyk> What do you mean "re-wrap"?
[21:49] <dutchie> make look reasonable
[21:49] <godbyk> Ah, go for it.
[21:49] <dutchie> seeing as it was in a horrible format copied from the CC website
[21:50] <godbyk> I haven't done any formatting of the licenses yet.
[21:50] <godbyk> Others have done that for me. :)
[21:50] <dutchie> yeah, I'm in plain text
[21:50] <dutchie> it's a huge pain
[21:50] <godbyk> Feel free to set the all-caps text inside the \smallcaps{STOP SHOUTING SO LOUDLY} command.
[21:50] <ubuntujenkins> there are now 42 screenshots in the manual only 12 to go
[21:50] <godbyk> It'll make things look 200% better right there.
[21:51] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can we see what it looks like if we centre the screenshots? some of the small ones look odd at the moment
[21:52] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I originally had them centered and I was told to make them right-aligned. :)
[21:52] <ubuntujenkins> I thought you did, tell the person who said right aligned to see what they think then
[21:52] <ubuntujenkins> I think they now look silly
[21:52] <godbyk> I think it may have been thorwil;. I don't recall.  But yet, I'll mention it.
[21:53] <ubuntujenkins> cool
[21:53] <ubuntujenkins> thorwill is an artist i am not
[21:53] <godbyk> Did Ilya ever figure out what we're to do about the licenses?
[21:55] <ubuntujenkins> I don't know, last thing i remeber was don't translate our selves if there isn't one in that language put the english one in
[21:58] <godbyk> Right. But then we found a ton of translations on the CC site, and I thought there was some debate over whether we could/should use them.
[21:59] <ubuntujenkins> I can't remember I think the idea was to use the ones from the cc site.
[21:59] <ubuntujenkins> it was a while ago
[21:59] <dutchie> I think we did decide to use the ones from CC
[22:00] <dutchie> not sure though
[22:00] <godbyk> just curious.
[22:00] <godbyk> we should get that settled soonish.
[22:06] <ubuntujenkins> what are people thoughts on this screenshot? Chapter 3, page 65: Small view of the message list, showing column headers and a few email messages my only thought it the messages, if you look in the empathy screenshots you will see i used quickshot@ubuntu-manual.org as an e-mail account
[22:06] <ubuntujenkins> but we don't want every one to know the password if we set an account up as that
[22:07] <ubuntujenkins> not that it is needed
[22:08] <godbyk> I could set up a quickshot@ubuntu-manual.org account.
[22:09] <ubuntujenkins> I guess we could create an empathy back up file for people to import but how easys would it be for people to work out the password for the accout?
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> and we don't want random e-mails showing in the window people could start sending al sorts to the account
[22:12]  * dutchie thinks he is going to get quite deep into debian packaging black magic
[22:12] <ubuntujenkins> write a script to do it each day, it looks sssssssssoooooooooo hard
[22:13] <dutchie> once it's done, it's done
[22:13] <dutchie> I just have to work out how to call dpkg-gencontrol and dpkg-deb
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> but how do you get it to auto update?
[22:14] <dutchie> you just cron it to build every day
[22:15] <ubuntujenkins> I am so glad quickshot is quickly
[22:15] <godbyk> Whenever I've looked into packaging, I've been cared off.
[22:16] <godbyk> Where's the one-button package creation tool?
[22:17] <dutchie> debhelper 7 with the miniscule control file?
[22:18]  * dutchie isn't using that ;)
[22:18]  * dutchie is doing it by hand
[22:19] <godbyk> that doesn't sound fun.
[22:19] <dutchie> top tip: do not try and inhale muffins
[22:19] <ubuntujenkins> what falvor?
[22:20] <ubuntujenkins> *flavour?
[22:20] <dutchie> home-made banana
[22:20] <ubuntujenkins> nom nom I had and orange and rasin today
[22:21] <godbyk> New translations/builds: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
[22:21] <godbyk> I'm going to fix banana bread later this evening.
[22:21]  * ubuntujenkins has 5 bananas next to him
[22:22] <dutchie> these are basically banana bread in muffin shape
[22:22] <dutchie> s/are/were/
[22:23] <godbyk> dutchie: When I've fixed latex-related typos in the translations, I've always edited the .po file and fixed it in launchpad.
[22:23] <godbyk> what's the best way to fix translation bugs like that?
[22:23] <dutchie> fix it in LP and let it trickle through
[22:24]  * dutchie builds his package
[22:24] <godbyk> 'kay
[22:24]  * dutchie is not optimistic
[22:24]  * ubuntujenkins hopes it works then i can do another screenshot
[22:27] <dutchie> ERROR: The build failed
[22:27] <dutchie> well that was a surprise
[22:28] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: knock yourself out, the branches are already diverged
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> what who messed it up?
[22:29] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: I've had it branched for a while
[22:29] <dutchie> I'll try rebasing
[22:30] <dutchie> there aren't going to be any conflicts
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> o i see i thought you ment main had been messed up. I would like the ppa screenshot to be of our ppa you see
[22:31] <dutchie> you'll be lucky to see it tonight I should think
[22:32] <ubuntujenkins> thats fine i can see how much of a pain it is I looked online
[22:40] <ubuntujenkins> I hope cononical don't change the default theme
[22:41] <donri> Who likes the buttons? :)
[22:41] <ubuntujenkins> I set them back to the right
[22:41] <ubuntujenkins> I am use to the max, min close thing now
[22:42] <donri> I quite like the for myself, but fear how it might confuse others.
[22:42]  * dutchie doesn't actually care
[22:42] <donri> You can change the order too, you know.
[22:42] <donri> Oh but that's ugly in that theme?
[22:42] <ubuntujenkins> I will set it to the right for my family, I know you can change the order but it then looks awful
[22:43] <donri> Need better theme engines!
[22:45] <godbyk> frak
[22:45] <godbyk> Sometimes LaTeX packages are a total pain in the butt.
[22:46] <godbyk> To get the Arabic (and other languages) set properly as right-to-left, I want to use the 'bidi' package
[22:46] <godbyk> The bidi package wants to be loaded last so it can modify all the code that comes before it.
[22:46] <dutchie> but so do all the other packages
[22:47] <godbyk> But the document class (tufte-book) needs to modify the footnote and citation code to put things in the margin and bidi will overwrite that code if it's loaded afterward.
[22:47] <godbyk> Thus begins the race to see who's hand ends up on top.
[22:48] <godbyk> I think the best solution would be to see if I can modify tufte-book to wait until after the bidi package has been loaded to do its modifications.
[22:48] <godbyk> But that may be tricky.
[22:48]  * dutchie wonders whether him or godbyk has the harder job
[22:48] <godbyk> heh
[22:49] <dutchie> ooh, nearly ready to have another go at building
[22:49] <godbyk> at least I wrote the tufte-book class, so I can modify it freely. :)
[22:50]  * godbyk may have to spend a couple hours to build a quick website/database that can track the dependency trees of latex packages.
[22:51] <godbyk> so I can pull up the page on bidi for instance, and see that it requires these other packages, it must be loaded before package X but after package Y, that it's compatible with packages A, B, and C, but incompatible with packages D, E, and F, etc.
[22:51] <godbyk> that is obsoletes package P and supercedes package Q.
[22:52] <dutchie> \o/ another failed build
[22:52] <godbyk> lol
[22:52] <godbyk> what part of the build is failing?
[22:52] <godbyk> latex-related or deb-related?
[22:52] <dutchie> getting the dependecies
[22:52] <dutchie> I suspect the latex bit will work fine
[22:52] <godbyk> what dependencies?
[22:52] <godbyk> if you're just packaging a pdf, there are no dependencies. it's a pdf.  right?
[22:53] <dutchie> dependencies for final package != dependencies for building said package
[22:53] <godbyk> Gotcha.
[22:53] <godbyk> How are you attempting to get the dependencies to build the package?
[22:54] <dutchie> is there a minimal set of texlive packages?
[22:54] <jaminday> Mornin all
[22:54] <dutchie> you specify a Build-Depends line in the control file
[22:54] <godbyk> dutchie: remember, we require tex live 2009.. the tex live 2007 packages in karmic won't work.
[22:54] <ubuntujenkins> morning jaminday
[22:54] <dutchie> I'm on lucid
[22:55]  * dutchie is unlikely to even attempt doing karmic for a while
[22:55] <ubuntujenkins> I never had any luck with lucid packages i downloaded it as per the wiki
[22:56] <godbyk> I don't know what state the lucid tex live packages are in.
[22:56] <dutchie> hmm, it says that ttf-linux-libertine is a virtual package
[22:56] <godbyk> I just went straight for the TL2009 downloads directly because it's easier to keep them up to date than to rely on ubuntu.
[22:56] <godbyk> (esp. since I'm doing dev work using latex.)
[22:56] <godbyk> dutchie: what's it point to? did they rename it?
[22:56] <ubuntujenkins> I had the packges about 2 months ago but after perstering godbyk with all my errors i use the downloads no problems with them at all
[22:57] <dutchie> I think I will get the manual to build properly outside the debian build system
[22:58] <dutchie> the install-pkgs script isn't finding my version of texlive
[22:59] <godbyk> what version do you have installed?
[22:59] <godbyk> what does 'which tlmgr' return?
[23:00] <dutchie> which tlmgr gives nothing, but I installed tl-full 2009 out of the lucid repos
[23:00] <ubuntujenkins> all do a pull i broke main for 2 mins then
[23:01] <ubuntujenkins> forgot bzr add doh!
[23:01] <godbyk> do they package the tlmgr program?
[23:01] <dutchie> it seems not
[23:01] <godbyk> that's what the install-pkgs.sh script relies on for installing TeX dependencies (and checking that TL2009 is installed).
[23:02] <dutchie> could be a problem there then
[23:07] <dutchie> godbyk: are you going to change the install-pkgs.sh script then?
[23:07] <godbyk> dutchie: in what way?
[23:07] <dutchie> so it works on lucid? ;)
[23:08] <godbyk> It does as long as you stop trying to get away with using Lucid's packages. :-)
[23:08] <dutchie> this is very hard when you need to build a deb package
[23:09] <godbyk> I could add a command-line flag to say 'assume TL2009 is installed', but if it doesn't have tlmgr, the script can't install any missing dependencies anyway, so it's rather useless.
[23:09] <dutchie> in theory, it's probably *just about* possible
[23:09] <dutchie> (to use upstream packages)
[23:09]  * dutchie wonders why lucid doesn't ship tlmgr then
[23:10] <godbyk> do you have all the texlive packages installed?
[23:10] <godbyk> lemme see if tlmgr exists anywhere.
[23:10] <dutchie> I've got texlive-full installed, and I serached on packages.ubuntu.com
[23:10] <godbyk> dutchie: doesn't look good: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=tlmgr&mode=exactfilename&suite=lucid&arch=any
[23:12] <dutchie> so what does tlmgr actually do?
[23:12] <godbyk> dutchie: it's basically apt-get for latex packages.
[23:12] <godbyk> or like cpan
[23:12] <dutchie> can apt-get not be used?
[23:13] <dutchie> that would probably be an ideal solution
[23:13] <godbyk> it downloads the packages from ctan.org, not ubuntu.
[23:13] <godbyk> they're not .debs
[23:13] <godbyk> but .tgz
[23:13] <dutchie> are they not in ubuntu?
[23:13] <godbyk> I don't know.
[23:13] <godbyk> When I first looked at the lucid packages a couple months ago, I couldn't tell what state they were in.
[23:14] <godbyk> but there are a lot fewer texlive packages in lucid than in karmic, I think.
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> I am off guys night night  o/
[23:14] <dutchie> fewer?
[23:14] <godbyk> G'night, ubuntujenkins!
[23:15] <godbyk> dutchie: also, we need the bleeding edge version of polyglossia for our translations.
[23:15] <godbyk> (that is, I'm running the version of polyglossia from git, in fact.)
[23:16] <dutchie> translations are not a priority right now
[23:17] <dutchie> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=ccicons.sty&mode=exactfilename&suite=karmic&arch=any :(
[23:19] <dutchie> hmm
[23:19] <dutchie> at the end of newsnight (exactly as serious as it sounds), they just played http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5SX3A-ifME
[23:21] <godbyk> lol. why?
[23:21] <dutchie> no idea whatsoever
[23:21] <dutchie> that is the british equivalent to country and western
[23:21] <dutchie> you can see why it's not so popular
[23:22] <godbyk> sounds better than the country/western crap we have over here. :)
[23:22] <dutchie> heh
[23:22] <dutchie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btEpF334Rtc was their big hit
[23:23] <godbyk> impressive. ;-)
[23:24] <godbyk> my last paying job was working on a simulator of a combine harvester. :)
[23:24]  * dutchie wonders if that song is in the U1MS
[23:25]  * godbyk has the urge to design/create a new web interface for ctan.org.
[23:26] <godbyk> Damn it.. I don't need *more* project ideas!
[23:58] <godbyk> dutchie: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.text.tex/browse_thread/thread/bc81e38cabb35249#
[23:58] <dutchie> gah
[23:58] <dutchie> just as I was going to bed, you have to go and distract me
[23:59] <godbyk> It's a quick read. And a bit of a bummer.
[23:59] <dutchie> yeah