[16:01] <lool> heya
[16:01] <mvo> hello
[16:01] <barry> hiya
[16:01] <cjwatson> afternoon
[16:01] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:01. The chair is cjwatson.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <cjwatson> let me just quickly create an agenda ...
[16:02] <ev> hi
[16:03] <james_w> hi
[16:03] <tremolux> hey
[16:04] <cjwatson> this also gives my bug list script a little more time to run
[16:05] <doko__> hi
[16:06]  * slangasek waves
[16:06] <cjwatson> right
[16:07] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0324
[16:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0324
[16:07] <cjwatson> Keybuk: here?
[16:07] <cjwatson> >>> print ', '.join(order)
[16:07] <cjwatson> mvo, slangasek, ev, tremolux, lool, doko, cjwatson, james_w, Keybuk, barry
[16:07] <mvo> worked on software-center and upgrade issues (update-manager), buried ratings&reviews for lucid, will work on upgrade bugs, beta-2 items
[16:07] <mvo> (done)
[16:08] <slangasek> worked on: beta
[16:08] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
[16:08] <cjwatson> (whoops)
[16:08] <ev> oh I see how it is
[16:08] <ev> ;)
[16:08] <slangasek> working on: UbuntuSpec:foundations-lucid-supportable-binaries
[16:08] <slangasek> (done)
[16:08] <Keybuk> cjwatson: nope, I'm other there -->
[16:08] <ev> fixed quite a few beta-2 bugs, working on getting the rest sorted and the last oem-config work item finished, landing branches now that all my freeze exceptions have been granted (thanks pitti!)
[16:08] <ev> (done)
[16:09] <tremolux> Continue Software Center bug fixes and triage, other tasks as needed.
[16:09] <tremolux> (done)
[16:09] <lool> Fixed small build issues in qemu-maemo and packaged it in my PPA (Beagle and N900 support!); worked on a cross-compilation presentation
[16:09] <lool> (done)
[16:10] <doko> sorry
[16:10] <doko> * packages for final python releases
[16:10] <doko> * llvm prerelease pacakges
[16:10] <doko> * minor toolchain updates
[16:10] <doko> * python bug triage
[16:10] <doko> (done)
[16:10] <cjwatson> done: helped with beta-1 plymouth/upstart confusion, let's have no more of this :-); grub lvm/raid fixups, localisation fixes, various upgrade fixes; fairly serious bug catchup; filed FFe request for ntfs-3g
[16:10] <cjwatson> todo: figure out why my raid test system can't get past the initramfs; look at raising grub-installer MBR question priority again in d-i; more partitioning cleanup
[16:10] <cjwatson> --
[16:11] <Keybuk> Last week I was mostly fixing the Plymouth bugs that stopped us releasing Beta 1 on time.
[16:11] <Keybuk> This week I've been mostly introducing new Plymouth bugs that will stop us releasing Beta 2 on time.
[16:11] <Keybuk> --
[16:11] <barry> completed computer janitor refactoring; branch landed; FFe submitted; bug triage.  worked a little bit on ratings and reviews; officially deferred until 10.10. pep 3147; more test fixing and mailing list discussions; pep updated. upgraded main dev box to lucid \o/.  update manager bug 132311; tracker discussion; bug triage.  little bit of work on launchpad mailing lists. lazr.enum packaging for universe; b
[16:12] <slangasek> Keybuk: not funny :P
[16:12] <james_w> Working on Launchpad to get some things we need for UDD to progress, as well as sponsoring, archive admin etc. Plan for more of the same, but hope to wrap up this first set of LP branches soon.
[16:12] <james_w> --
[16:13] <Keybuk> slangasek: I'm not the one who introduced a broken patch to Plymouth *at the very last minute*
[16:13] <Keybuk> :D
[16:13] <slangasek> Keybuk: it was only lightly broken :)
[16:14] <Keybuk> suuure, what's a segfault between friends? :p
[16:14] <slangasek> hrm?
[16:14] <Keybuk> anyway, banter aside, let's let cjwatson get on with the meeting <g>
[16:14] <cjwatson> like I say, I'm desperately hoping my script will finish in time :)
[16:15] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:15] <cjwatson> cjwatson to spec out requirements for launchpadlib bug report script
[16:15] <cjwatson> requirement is "add assignee column to the reports we're using"
[16:15] <cjwatson> barry to implement script
[16:15] <slangasek> Keybuk: that patch didn't cause any segfaults that I've seen, only a mountall assert?  (The fix for which is in bzr and I'd like to upload - is the branch in a state that I can do so?)
[16:15] <cjwatson> since I only produced the requirement today, I decided to do it myself ;-)
[16:16] <barry> cjwatson: is there anything more to hack on or are you happy enough with your script?
[16:16] <Keybuk> slangasek: NO!!!!!!!!
[16:16] <slangasek> Keybuk: ok, when will it be?
[16:16] <Keybuk> slangasek: you know how ever time I say "oh, by this evening" it takes another day?
[16:16] <cjwatson> barry: the main bit that's being a right pain is that I can't see any way to query by targeted (NOT nominated) series in the API
[16:17] <cjwatson> barry: so I'm having to do a larger search and then trim it down by iterating over all bug tasks, which is painfully slow
[16:17] <Keybuk> slangasek: I thought I'd upload it yesterday ... a day later and I'm still trying to fix the bug that stops plymouth working at all <g>
[16:17] <cjwatson> and I think the results are still wrong
[16:17] <slangasek> Keybuk: heh
[16:17] <cjwatson> so, yeah, I could use some iterative help
[16:17] <barry> cjwatson: hmm.  i don't know off hand, but i can ask on #launchpad-dev.  why don't you push a +junk branch so we can collaborate on it?
[16:17] <cjwatson> barry: yup - will do that after the meeting
[16:18] <barry> cool
[16:18] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
[16:18] <cjwatson> from last week:
[16:18] <cjwatson> 16:11 <mvo> python-apt was pending last I checked
[16:18] <cjwatson> 16:11 <barry> cjwatson: not yet, but c-j is coming
[16:18] <cjwatson> 16:11 <mvo> ratings&reviews is also still in limbo :(
[16:18] <cjwatson> 16:11 <cjwatson> ntfs-3g still, I guess, need to find time to look at that
[16:18] <mvo> python-apt got granted and is uploaded
[16:19] <barry> R&R is deferred for sure
[16:19] <barry> FFE for c-j is submitted but i've heard nothing about it since
[16:19]  * mvo waves r&r goodbye for lucid
[16:19] <cjwatson> pitti granted ntfs-3g and I'll upload that today
[16:19] <ev> waiting for a comment on ubiquity timezone changes: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/538156
[16:19] <mvo> I would like to support the c-j dbus branch strongly because the current code is a mess of thread deadlocks that the dbus branch makes go away
[16:20] <Keybuk> c-j dbus branch?
[16:20] <Keybuk> oh, computer-janitor
[16:20] <Keybuk> took brain a while to expand that
[16:20] <barry> :)
[16:20] <Keybuk> slangasek: I'd like a FFe for a D-Bus update itself
[16:21] <cjwatson> I'm OK with the ubiquity timezone page change
[16:21] <cjwatson> (as an installer hacker not a release team bod)
[16:21] <ev> cjwatson: thanks, landing
[16:21] <ev> oh, damn :)
[16:21] <cjwatson> commented on the bug though
[16:22] <slangasek> Keybuk: that sounds like an unlikely candidate for getting an exception, what's the need?
[16:22] <Keybuk> slangasek: it stops the hang with multi-threaded D-Bus apps like evo
[16:23] <barry> Keybuk: oh, i'd like to see that!
[16:23] <barry> that maybe was ambiguous.  s/see/have/ :)
[16:23] <slangasek> Keybuk: and we can't take the bugfix without new features? :)
[16:23] <Keybuk> slangasek: I don't have the time to backport just the bug fix
[16:23] <Keybuk> but if others do, sure
[16:23] <Keybuk> there aren't any new features though
[16:24] <slangasek> ok; file the FFe and I'll have a look
[16:24] <Keybuk> just new other bug fixes
[16:24] <slangasek> er - then it doesn't need an FFe
[16:24] <Keybuk> D-Bus 1.2.x is fully in maintenance mode
[16:24] <Keybuk> oh, I thought I needed an FFe to sneeze nowadays :p
[16:24] <slangasek> only because when you sneeze, people's machines fall over
[16:24] <slangasek> :)
[16:24] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
[16:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
[16:24] <Keybuk> not my fault people let me use computers ;)
[16:25] <cjwatson> so as I said, I've been trying to produce a more useful view of this, but running into a few problems.  At the moment the list I have is of bugs milestoned to beta-2, but it doesn't take targeting into account properly, which is annoying
[16:25] <cjwatson> but maybe http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/task-assignments/ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html is useful anyway
[16:26] <cjwatson> so that has upstart bug 531494 which I'm guessing is still a catfight between Keybuk and smoser?
[16:26] <cjwatson> bug 522910 - mvo?
[16:26] <cjwatson> (or barry?)
[16:26] <Keybuk> cjwatson: it's not a catfight ;)
[16:26] <cjwatson> bug 527870
[16:27] <cjwatson> bug 537007
[16:27] <Keybuk> smoser has helpfully set up a machine hung in that state and given me ssh access to it
[16:27] <barry> i can take some u-m bugs since i'm wading into that code now anyway
[16:27] <cjwatson> bug 538129
[16:27] <Keybuk> I'm unhelpfully been fixing my own release critical bugs first <g>
[16:27] <Keybuk> (before helping the server team with theirs)
[16:27] <cjwatson> bug 539324 (that's mine, just forgot to assign)
[16:27] <barry> my c-j fix committed bugs will go to fix released when the ffe is accepted and the update lands
[16:27] <cjwatson> bug 539710 - ev, you were in that code recently?
[16:27] <cjwatson> bug 539827
[16:27] <mvo> cjwatson: sorry, I have not looked at those two u-m bugs, but I will
[16:27] <cjwatson> bug 534473
[16:28] <ev> 539827 scares me
[16:28] <cjwatson> bug 540686 - this is a weirdo upgrade bug, I'm not quite sure what's going on with it
[16:28] <ev> I'm not sure what on earth could be causing it, but I'll keep at it
[16:28] <doko> cjwatson: the status column doesn't seem to be up to date
[16:28] <cjwatson> bug 386099
[16:28] <ev> 539710> indeed, it's at the top of my list
[16:28] <barry> i'll take 522910 to at least see if i can do something about it
[16:28] <cjwatson> and I'll stop there for the moment since you can look at the unassigned list for yourselves
[16:28] <cjwatson> doko: it's a statically generated page - my cleverness is limited
[16:29] <cjwatson> doko: and the script takes tens of minutes to run, and is currently a bit broken
[16:29] <Riddell> I was planning on doing the Kubuntu Netbook OEM icon bug, it's not hard
[16:29] <mvo> cjwatson: if you could comment #540252 that would be nice, its sort-of releated to the initramfs failure
[16:29] <cjwatson> Riddell: if you could tackle or get somebody to tackle bug 540202, that would be good too
[16:30] <Keybuk> huh
[16:30] <cjwatson> slangasek: when barry and I polish this list up a bit more, will it be of use to you?
[16:30] <Keybuk> there's an "LVM" bug assigned to me
[16:30] <Riddell> cjwatson: yes, that's on my targets too
[16:30] <Keybuk> bug #527666
[16:30] <cjwatson> mvo: ok
[16:33] <slangasek> 540686> a similar bug was already fixed in module-init-tools, but I wonder if that isn't ultimately an initramfs-tools bug for not sanitizing the input to cpio; a similar bug was just reported in Debian, and in that case the dangling symlink was user-provided :)
[16:33] <slangasek> cjwatson: yes :)
[16:33] <Keybuk> initramfs-tools is where bugs go to die
[16:33] <ev> lol
[16:34] <cjwatson> slangasek: I think for the lucid list we would also like to limit it to tasks that aren't milestoned for the current milestone - do you agree?
[16:34] <slangasek> initramfs-tools is a roach motel?
[16:34] <slangasek> cjwatson: makes sense
[16:34] <Keybuk> the other trouble is that initramfs-tools tends to collect bugs that aren't really its fault
[16:34] <Keybuk> like if all bugs were filed on dpkg because that was what installed things
[16:34] <cjwatson> Keybuk: ... they are
[16:35] <cjwatson> oh, sometimes they're filed on debconf because that's what asks you questions
[16:35] <mvo> or update-manager because that is on the screen
[16:36] <cjwatson> slangasek: we could at least work around it by sanitising the input, even if that might be too big a hammer
[16:36] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Targeted bugs
[16:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted bugs
[16:36] <cjwatson> without a list of what's in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs and not in the milestone list, this remains tricky, but there are a couple of bugs that caught my eye
[16:36] <cjwatson> bug 445852 is nasty - does anyone know what's going on here well enough to attack it?
[16:37] <Keybuk> err, isn't that -desktop
[16:37] <cjwatson> and bug 426027, Keybuk, are we planning a new version of util-linux?
[16:37] <Keybuk> pitti maintains udisks
[16:37] <cjwatson> Keybuk: yeah, but it isn't a udisks bug as such
[16:37] <Keybuk> cjwatson: there is no new version of util-linux?
[16:37] <Keybuk> cjwatson: it's a libatasmart bug, which is only used by udisks and packaged by pitti?
[16:38] <cjwatson> ah, I didn't realise its use was that limited
[16:38] <cjwatson> Keybuk: the bug implies (and I've only skimmed it) that a newer upstream version fixes it
[16:38] <cjwatson> possibly a git checkout or something
[16:38] <Keybuk> since we're using the newest, shiniest, util-linux version
[16:39] <Keybuk> that happens to also be GIT HEAD
[16:39] <Keybuk> they lie
[16:39] <cjwatson> ok
[16:39] <Keybuk> oh, wait
[16:39] <Keybuk> that bug is talking about KARMIC
[16:39] <Keybuk> we obviously have newer in Lucid
[16:39] <cjwatson> should the lucid task simply be closed?
[16:39] <Keybuk> slangasek: you opened the lucid task
[16:40] <cjwatson> Keybuk: on 2009-10-30
[16:40] <Keybuk> did you have any reason for that?  I can't find any mention of lucid in the bug
[16:40] <cjwatson> lucid was kind of new then, it was just carry-over from karmic
[16:40] <Keybuk> ah
[16:40] <Keybuk> quite right
[16:40] <Keybuk> I shall mark Fix Released in karmic
[16:40] <Keybuk> err in LUCID
[16:40] <cjwatson> I'm also a bit scared that bug 417757 has come back like a bad smell
[16:41] <cjwatson> we've fixed this twice already by my count
[16:41] <cjwatson> doko: are you on top of that?
[16:41] <doko> the "fix" is applied in the package
[16:42] <doko> cjwatson: yes, will lok at it this week
[16:42] <slangasek> is it?  the lucid task was reopened distinctly on that one
[16:42] <cjwatson> it's one of those dogpile bugs, so I could well believe that the current issue has nothing to do with the original one, but
[16:43] <slangasek> (by pitti, not by $drive_by_commenter)
[16:43] <slangasek> doko: if you think it's fixed, I can re-run my test for lucid that I did for karmic
[16:44] <cjwatson> one of the trailing comments claims to still have problems with lucid beta-1
[16:44] <Keybuk> our users have many problems, not all of them with Ubuntu
[16:44] <doko> slangasek: if you can do this faster than me, would be nice ...
[16:44] <cjwatson> BTW, the reason we dropped Tollef's patch was that upstream's changes were supposed to supersede it
[16:44] <cjwatson> at least that's my memory from the last go-around on this
[16:46] <doko> yes, that's what I remember too
[16:47] <cjwatson> looks like comparing very closely against FC12 wouldn't go amiss, if we haven't already :)
[16:47] <cjwatson> ok
[16:47] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Good news
[16:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
[16:47] <cjwatson> (skipping a bit)
[16:48] <slangasek> Number of days without a world-breaking plymouth upload on the job site: 12
[16:48] <slangasek> ;)
[16:48] <Keybuk> 12?!
[16:48] <lool> haha
[16:48] <lool> slangasek: *hours* you mean
[16:48] <Keybuk> I don't think we've even gone 7 surely
[16:48] <Keybuk> I remember plymouth uploads in the small hours last week for beta
[16:48] <slangasek> Keybuk: ah, but those were world-*fixing* :)
[16:48] <mvo> upgrade feedback is overall pretty positive
[16:49] <mvo> (modulo button order change)
[16:49] <cjwatson> with a bit of outside help, Keybuk and I figured out that we have a decent chance of being able to use efifb as a boot framebuffer in lucid+1, fixing lots of issues along the way
[16:49] <cjwatson> (it's a BAD IDEA in lucid given the kernel)
[16:49] <slangasek> neat :)
[16:49] <Keybuk> it's very sexy if you build a mainline with lucid's config though
[16:49] <Keybuk> I tried it last night
[16:49] <Keybuk> I made grub go purple with the ubuntu logo
[16:49] <Keybuk> and the mode stayed set, and the screen did not get cleared
[16:50] <Keybuk> and plymouth drew more on it and animated
[16:50] <cjwatson> rocking
[16:50] <Keybuk> it was very awesome
[16:50]  * cjwatson wonders if we could persuade design that, with this, a one-second delay in grub isn't so bad after all
[16:51]  * cjwatson fed up of not being able to get at the grub menu in kvm :)
[16:51] <slangasek> cjwatson: in grub2, you can't pass vga= at all anymore?  so if you want to specify a video mode, you *have* to use gfx_payload=keep and trigger efifb?
[16:51] <cjwatson> slangasek: you can if you use linux16/initrd16
[16:51] <slangasek> ah
[16:51] <cjwatson> but yeah, it's rocky right now
[16:51] <cjwatson> efifb would be a lot easier in many ways, even though it's Different
[16:52]  * slangasek files that rune away for future interactions
[16:52] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:52] <slangasek> I saw a bug comment this week from someone who said "I got my video mode working just fine, just remove vesafb from the blacklist in /etc and edit these three other config files..."
[16:53] <doko> are the rebuild tests running? besides the ones lucas did make
[16:53] <Keybuk> vga= gets picked up by the initramfs too
[16:53] <cjwatson> slangasek: yeeeees.  uh, it depends
[16:53] <Keybuk> the efifb problem, for the record, is that the switch into a real kms framebuffer is a bit rocky
[16:53] <Keybuk> slangasek: I tend to recommend people do that
[16:54] <cjwatson> doko: oh, bugger, I keep forgetting.  why don't we get you into ubuntu-archive as agreed and you can do it :)
[16:54] <Keybuk> with the big BUT YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO RESUME FROM SUSPEND above it
[16:54] <mvo> cjwatson: what is a good place for maitenance check lucid.hints file ? ~ubuntu-archive too?
[16:54] <slangasek> Keybuk: my understanding from cjwatson was that the kernel never *sees* the vga= because grub2 filters it magically when using the 32-bit boot protocol
[16:55] <cjwatson> mvo: is it worth putting it in the seeds?
[16:55] <cjwatson> vga= is a bit weird
[16:55] <Keybuk> slangasek: oh, dunno about that ;)
[16:55] <cjwatson> it was always interpreted by the boot loader, and shoved into the boot parameters structure that the kernel gets from the boot loader
[16:55] <cjwatson> it was never passed as an ordinary command line option, really
[16:55] <mvo> cjwatson: not sure, kees asked for a special override file (this is how I implemented it currently). its outside the seeds currently
[16:55] <cjwatson> the bit of the kernel that interprets it is in the 16-to-32-bit bring-up code
[16:56] <cjwatson> mvo: I think the seeds would be best if that's doable, but failing that I think maybe something that ubuntu-core-dev can write to
[16:56] <doko> cjwatson: I'm fine with it, would you mind give some help for the first run?
[16:57] <cjwatson> doko: certainly
[16:57] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks, that is fine with me, I will update my code for this and talk to kees if/how to put it into the seeds
[16:57] <cjwatson> I needed help from bigjools, it's not the sort of thing you can figure out from scratch even if you're already used to running the archive :(
[16:57] <cjwatson> doko: first thing tomorrow?
[16:57] <cjwatson> doko: oh, wait, I don't start until 11:30 London time on Thursdays, so after that
[16:58] <cjwatson> ok, please send me your activity reports if you haven't already, and I'll put them in the wiki
[16:58] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[16:58] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:58.
[16:58] <doko> cjwatson: sounds fine
[16:59] <tremolux> see ya's, good day all
[16:59] <mvo> thanks
[17:00] <ev> thanks
[17:00] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[17:01] <james_w> thanks
[17:01]  * fader_ waves.
[17:01]  * ara waves
[17:01] <fader_> marjo has a scheduling conflict so he's asked me to kick off the QA meeting today
[17:01]  * sbeattie waves
[17:01] <fader_> So without further ado...
[17:02] <fader_> #startmeeting
[17:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is fader_.
[17:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:02] <fader_> Agenda:
[17:02] <fader_>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[17:02] <fader_>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
[17:02] <fader_>     * Upgrade Jams -- ara
[17:02] <fader_> [TOPIC] SRU testing (sbeattie)
[17:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing (sbeattie)
[17:02] <sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-03-17):
[17:02] <sbeattie> * karmic: 8 new packages in -proposed (devicekit-disks, gst-plugins-bad0.10, language-packs, linux-firmware-nonfree, lupin, mountall, packagekit, papyon) and 4 packages pushed to -updates (app-install-data-partner, landscape-client, linux, samba)
[17:02] <sbeattie> * jaunty: 0 new packages in -proposed and 2 packages pushed to -updates (landscape-client, linux)
[17:02] <sbeattie> * intrepid: 0 new packages in -proposed and 2 package pushed to -updates (landscape-client, linux)
[17:02] <sbeattie> * hardy: 0 new packages in -proposed and 2 package pushed to -updates (kdepim, linux)
[17:02] <sbeattie> * dapper: no SRU activity
[17:02] <sbeattie> Thanks to Douglas Mackay, timroll, David Tombs, Sören Wegener, Alessio Treglia, Derek Simkowiak, Onkar Shinde, AG, Ricardo Sanchez, Andreas Wenning, and Besterino for testing SRUs this week.
[17:03] <fader_> No SRUs for dapper... all the bugs must have been worked out by now :)
[17:03] <sbeattie> There's a bit of a buildup of SRUs for karmic, so if people are looking for things to do, that'd be a great place to start.
[17:04] <pedro_> anything that might need more attention (help) there ?
[17:04] <pedro_> the queue is quite big compared to previous week
[17:05] <sbeattie> well, a new linux kernel just popped in this morning, I think.
[17:06] <sbeattie> that made the queue appear a bit larger.
[17:07] <pedro_> ah ok, thanks sbeattie
[17:07] <sbeattie> pedro_: clearing out some of the ones that have been languishing for a while would be great.
[17:07] <sbeattie> Any other SRU questions?
[17:08] <fader_> Doesn't seem like it... thanks, sbeattie!
[17:08] <fader_> [TOPIC] Bug Day status (pedro_)
[17:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status (pedro_)
[17:08] <pedro_> On Thursday 18th we had a bug day based on Gwibber, yes the microblogging app
[17:09] <pedro_> you can have a look at the progress of that day on the graph at : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100318
[17:09] <ara> the micro blogging application, with macro start up times
[17:09] <pedro_> ~84 bugs were triaged that day, Thanks a lot to our hug days heroes:  vish, kamusin, c-korn, Boniek, fle and bananeweizen
[17:09] <fader_> ara: Heh :)
[17:09] <pedro_> heh
[17:10] <pedro_> thanks also to kenvandine for looking into the bugs we triaged and raised that day
[17:10] <pedro_> Tomorrow we're having a bug day for all the translators in our lovely Ubuntu project, the target is the ubuntu-translators project
[17:11] <pedro_> there's plenty of bugs to be triaged: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100325
[17:11] <pedro_> so if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage and translations join us, we'll be glad to help you out to start
[17:12] <fader_> Any bug day questions or comments?
[17:13] <fader_> Doesn't seem like it.  Thanks, pedro_
[17:13] <pedro_> my pleasure ;-)
[17:13] <fader_> :)
[17:13] <fader_> [TOPIC] Upgrade Jams (ara)
[17:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Upgrade Jams (ara)
[17:13] <ara> As you may already know, this weekend is the Ubuntu Global Jam
[17:13] <ara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[17:13] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[17:14] <ara> as part of the UGJ we are asking people to upgrade to Lucid and report back
[17:14] <ara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade
[17:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade
[17:14] <ara> anyone is going to an UGJ this weekend?
[17:14] <fader_> Unfortunately I have plans this weekend, but maybe I can find one to drop in on.  I heard the last jam was really incredible!
[17:15] <bladernr_> +1 fader_ ... I have had my weekend planned out for me :(
[17:15] <ara> well, I will be sending a reminder to the ubuntu-qa list to see if any of our members can help out people upgrading during the jam
[17:15] <pedro_> I'm going to one here in Chile, the local community is organizing one so i'll be there
[17:15] <fader_> pedro_: Awesome!  Take lots of pictures ! :)
[17:15] <ara> pedro_, nice! tell people to upgrade to lucid! :D
[17:16] <pedro_> fader_, ara sure! will do both tasks ;-)
[17:16] <fader_> Thanks, ara!
[17:16] <fader_> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[17:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[17:17] <fader_> Going once...
[17:18] <fader_> Going twice...
[17:18] <fader_> Looks like that's it.  Thanks, everyone!
[17:18] <fader_> #endmeeting
[17:18] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:18.
[17:18] <bdmurray> thanks
[17:18] <kamusin> :)
[17:18] <sbeattie> thanks.
[17:19] <pedro_> thanks!
[18:56] <highvoltage>  * Edubuntu meeting in 4 minutes
[19:00] <highvoltage> Good evening!
[19:00] <Lns> hellooooo
[19:01]  * stgraber waves
[19:01] <highvoltage> let's give everyone a minute or so to check in
[19:01] <highvoltage> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
[19:01] <highvoltage> anything else that should be added?
[19:02] <stgraber> doc day ?
[19:02] <Lns> window control button placement in 10.04? ;)
[19:02] <highvoltage> right!
[19:03] <highvoltage> ok updated (that is, when the page finishes saving)
[19:03] <stgraber> Lns: heh :) we have alternative themes to deal with that ;) personaly I'm getting used to having them on the left side
[19:03] <Lns> stgraber: =) true true, i keep forgetting its just in a theme
[19:03] <highvoltage> let's start with that, I had lots of mixed feelings abou tit
[19:04] <highvoltage> *about it
[19:04] <highvoltage> so earlier this week I updated the artwork packages so that we use the light theme
[19:04] <highvoltage> stgraber and I talked about it on jabber where he suggested it
[19:05] <highvoltage> I wasn't sure whether we should do it since *many* schools have mixed environments, and having different button positions may be a bit weird for some users
[19:05] <alkisg> Hi all
[19:05] <Lns> Personally I just think it's unnecessary, period
[19:05] <highvoltage> I've tried the light (radiance) theme though and it works *really* well for Ubuntu, it matches our colours very well
[19:06] <highvoltage> especially the red highlight around text field entries
[19:06] <highvoltage> we also keep a little closer to ubuntu, but I think it's a mild benefit.
[19:07] <highvoltage> I'm jumping around a bit here, so apologies for being a bit ADHD, but tonight I got the Edubuntu Options dialog working, it pops up near the end of the installation process and asks whether you'd like to install LTSP and/or the Netbook Remix packages
[19:07] <stgraber> yep, here I'm running Ambiance (dark one), it's let me reduce my backlight quite a bit and proved very usable. I'd still keep the old one around though and make sure Window borders are restored correctly when switching back to the old one
[19:08] <highvoltage> we *could* add an option for "Legacy Window Positions" there
[19:08] <stgraber> highvoltage: I'm setting up a test environment here in our libvirt cluster, I'll try to give you acces to that later on, might be useful for debugging ;)
[19:08] <highvoltage> although when you do move the buttons to their old positions it also breaks the theme, so I'm not sure whether that would be a good idea.
[19:09] <Lns> For default install, it's going to confuse a LOT of people, especially the ones we're targeting - non-techie educational types
[19:09] <highvoltage> stgraber: thanks, it should also be a lot faster than my virtualbox setup :)
[19:10] <highvoltage> what we could perhaps do, is have the option for "Legacy Theming". that could use the Human metacity theme and restore the old window buttons
[19:10] <Lns> highvoltage: that's available through appearance menu anyway right?
[19:11] <highvoltage> Lns: unfortunately not. you can set the Metacity theme, but not the window action positions
[19:11]  * mhall119 is late
[19:11] <Lns> woah, i thought the position was tied to the theme..
[19:11] <highvoltage> Lns: nope, the buttons will be on the left regardless of the theme
[19:11] <Lns> k
[19:12] <Lns> well anyway my vote is 'no' but that's just me :)
[19:12] <stgraber> that's actually a one-line gconf command to switch it
[19:12] <highvoltage> ok, so we should leave it out of the edubuntu-conf script?
[19:13] <stgraber> yeah but I'd make the gconf options of our old themes hardcode the old order
[19:13] <stgraber> so if someone switch to one of the old ones, the order will be reverted
[19:14] <stgraber> (that's similar to the change I made to enable the icons in the menu)
[19:14] <highvoltage> stgraber: you can do that in a theme?
[19:14] <stgraber> highvoltage: sure, each theme comes with its set of gconf keys
[19:15] <mhall119> didn't know that
[19:15] <stgraber> ah no, my mistake ;)
[19:15] <stgraber> it seemed that way in the packaging
[19:15] <stgraber> actually what we seem to have in edubuntu-artwork is a debconf question that asks for default/plain/young
[19:15] <highvoltage> pity, that would've been nice
[19:16] <stgraber> and depending on that applies different gconf keys
[19:16] <stgraber> highvoltage: debian/gconf/*
[19:16] <highvoltage> yes, I don't think that works with the ubiquity installer anymore
[19:17] <stgraber> indeed
[19:17] <highvoltage> so... perhaps there should be a dialog that asks which default theme should be used, and then have default/plain/young/legacy
[19:17] <Lns> I like that option since it ties into what we had discussed before about themes for different ages/schools
[19:17] <highvoltage> perhaps for lucid+1 we could make it default/plain/qimo/legacy
[19:18] <stgraber> it's just too bad we are that late in the cycle, otherwise we could have done a nice gtk window showing the new and old themes and asking which one should be the default
[19:18] <stgraber> new one would have the controls on the left, old ones on the right
[19:18] <highvoltage> stgraber: I was thinking the same thing!
[19:18] <Lns> that would be so cool
[19:18] <stgraber> we can probably make the tool for that and have it in the edubuntu-dev PPA but that won't be in for Lucid
[19:19] <stgraber> though it most definitely needs to be properly advertised and be in for Lucid+1
[19:19] <highvoltage> *nod*
[19:19] <Lns> +1 for lucid+1
[19:19] <Lns> hehe
[19:19] <highvoltage> well all the themes will be installed, we should just have a section on the website telling administrators how to change the theme if they'd like to do so post-installation
[19:19] <nixternal> hola
[19:20] <highvoltage> (rather than re-installing from scratch just to get the theme)
[19:20] <highvoltage> howdy nixternal
[19:20] <nixternal> I was writing some docs in the background trying to make freeze for &kubuntu;
[19:20] <highvoltage> nixternal: make freeze?
[19:20] <highvoltage> oh I see
[19:20] <nixternal> string freeze :/
[19:21] <highvoltage> ok all above is noted
[19:22] <highvoltage> I leared all about plymouth this week, we have our basic theming done, can fine-tune it a bit when the Logos come
[19:22] <highvoltage> an issue we'll have to live with is that some computers where KMS isn't supported will show an Ubuntu splash screen
[19:22]  * stgraber tests LTSP live ;)
[19:23] <highvoltage> that we can only have fixed for Lucid+1 as well
[19:23] <highvoltage> I guess that's it for artwork? Anything else?
[19:24] <highvoltage> (I always feel like I'm typing *way* too much in these meetings :) )
[19:24] <highvoltage> ok on to technical then
[19:25] <highvoltage> as stgraber pointed out, we do have LTSP live now!
[19:25] <highvoltage> it doesn't work in today's build but it will after the next ltsp package release.
[19:25] <highvoltage> it only requires two steps currently. 1. set up a NIC, 2. run ltsp-livecd
[19:26] <nixternal> highvoltage: I need to learn plymouth as well, was it easy?
[19:26] <highvoltage> ltsp-livecd takes about a minute to run from the livecd on my virtualmachine, so it doesn't take long at all to get a demo ltsp server going with a livecd
[19:27] <Lns> That is pretty neat!
[19:27] <highvoltage> nixternal: it's simpler than usplash, you don't have to compile anything, there are some tricks with getting the colours right. it doesn't use alternatives yet so you use plymouth itself to handle the symlinks
[19:27] <highvoltage> nixternal: give me a ping when you want to work on it and I'll tell you everything I know about it
[19:28] <alkisg> Did anyone try ltsp-livecd in a real hardware? Is the speed bearable?
[19:29] <stgraber> alkisg: currently I have it on our development network, so that's a quad-opteron + 8GB of RAM but it's mapped to a physical VLAN so I'll be able to test on real hardware
[19:29] <highvoltage> alkisg: I booted 2 thin clients from the vm and it was quite bearable, the catch is of course that I booted from an ISO and not from a disc
[19:29] <alkisg> That's not too uncommon, though
[19:29] <Lns> I can try it out once i get the image downloaded
[19:29] <Lns> anyone have the quick link for meh? :)
[19:30] <stgraber> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/lucid-dvd-i386.iso
[19:30] <stgraber> if I remember well
[19:30] <highvoltage> Lns: yes download that so long, and then when the new build is done with the newer ltsp packages then you can just rsync to the latest version
[19:31] <Lns> cool
[19:31] <Lns> ty!
[19:32] <highvoltage> ok so about edubuntu-conf. that's a little script that pops up a dialog in ubiquity that asks whether you want to install the netbook remix and LTSP
[19:32] <highvoltage> it didn't work for me before (the experimental pop-ups), but for some reason it works fine now
[19:32] <highvoltage> I think I might have had too little ram assigned to my VM before
[19:33] <highvoltage> we should have that working fine by the end of the week as well, so next week we'll need all the testing we can get
[19:34] <stgraber> please note that next week we'll be in beta2 freeze with beta due the 8th IIRC
[19:35] <highvoltage> stgraber: we can still make bug fixes right?
[19:35] <nixternal> highvoltage: groovy, thanks
[19:36] <stgraber> highvoltage: sure but package will have to be accepted one by one by the release team
[19:36] <stgraber> not much of a problem though
[19:36] <highvoltage> ok we'll just have to sort out any problems as far as possible this week still
[19:36] <stgraber> yep
[19:36] <highvoltage> (which I agree shouldn't be too much of a problem)
[19:37] <stgraber> though I'm very confident we'll meet our roadmap
[19:37] <highvoltage> although that logo we're waiting on is becomming a bit of a problem in terms of artwork
[19:37] <stgraber> which is probably a first in Edubuntu's history ;)
[19:37] <highvoltage> stgraber: :)
[19:38] <stgraber> also, I uploaded LTSP 5.2.1 and LDM 2.1.1
[19:39] <stgraber> which after 2 additional uploads now work correctly
[19:39] <highvoltage> pity sbalneav couldn't make the meeting, I'm sure he wouldn't wanted to discuss doc day
[19:39] <stgraber> thanks to alkisg for the testing ;)
[19:39] <highvoltage> stgraber: heh
[19:39] <highvoltage> alkisg to the rescue as always
[19:39] <stgraber> it was also the occasion to switch off compression for our squashfs
[19:39] <alkisg> :)
[19:39] <stgraber> that should hopefully make all these kernel panics and squashfs errors at boot time vanish
[19:39] <highvoltage> stgraber: that's mostly for fixing plymouth issues right?
[19:39] <stgraber> yeah, that also contains the fixes for plymouth
[19:40] <stgraber> and for VT switching
[19:40] <highvoltage> do you happen to remember how much bigger it makes the image?
[19:40] <stgraber> my test thin client here boots in between 10s and 15s without a flicker
[19:40] <stgraber> hang on a sec, I have both images here
[19:40] <Lns> wait what, turn off compression for squashfs image?
[19:40] <stgraber> 217M compressed, 522M for uncompressed
[19:41] <stgraber> chroot is over 600M on the disk
[19:41] <stgraber> Lns: equivalent of ltsp-update-image -n
[19:41] <highvoltage> shew.
[19:41] <Lns> that doesn't affect network transfer right?
[19:41] <highvoltage> Lns: yep it does
[19:41] <Lns> so..its slower?
[19:41] <stgraber> Lns: it does take a little more bandwidth at boot time, though you're free to comment that option in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf
[19:41] <highvoltage> Lns: although it should mostly for booting
[19:41] <Lns> oh ok
[19:41] <Lns> cool
[19:41] <stgraber> Lns: it takes less CPU but a bit more data have to be sent
[19:42] <Lns> nice
[19:42] <Lns> and building would be much faster i'm sure
[19:42] <stgraber> yes
[19:42] <stgraber> a few secs vs a few mins
[19:42] <stgraber> in some cases
[19:42] <stgraber> (like fat clients)
[19:42] <alkisg> stgraber: I wonder if the compression problems were due to multiple processors being used for the compression... and if we forced squashfs to use only one, they'd go away...
[19:42] <stgraber> that'll unfortunately make our DVD image 200MB bigger though
[19:43] <stgraber> alkisg: I tried all combinations of all mksquashfs flags without much success unfortunately :(
[19:43] <alkisg> Ugh
[19:43] <Lns> very nice :)
[19:43] <stgraber> alkisg: I have thin clients that'll always boot fine with a compressed squashfs and some others that'll always crash or panic
[19:43] <stgraber> alkisg: seems to depend on the network card, network trafic, CPU usage or something
[19:43] <highvoltage> stgraber: I'm interested what it would do with low compression
[19:44] <Lns> that's interesting issue
[19:44] <highvoltage> (or small block size, at least)
[19:44] <stgraber> I'd personaly bet on some kind of network issue as it doesn't seem to affect the LiveCDs and these are using compressed squashfs
[19:44] <highvoltage> imho having a little bit of compression would be nice if possible
[19:44] <alkisg> maybe nbd client is losing some packets while trying to decompress...
[19:45] <stgraber> highvoltage: with squashfs you can't exactly choose the level of compression, you can just choose what you want compressed
[19:46] <stgraber> highvoltage: and that's what I tested with all the combinations I could think of with some working slightly better than others
[19:46] <stgraber> but none where my test thin client could boot 10 times in a row without kernel panic
[19:46] <stgraber> only uncompressed gave me a whole night of reboot without crashes
[19:46] <stgraber> but we should make sure that the procedure to turn compression back on is easily available on the wiki
[19:47] <stgraber> it's a single line to comment in the configuration file
[19:47] <stgraber> and if their thin clients work fine with compressed squashfs, then they should definitely use it (as it reduces the network trafic quite a bit)
[19:47] <highvoltage> ok, let's move on
[19:47] <highvoltage> any other technical issues?
[19:49] <highvoltage> I spoke to Hedgemadge earlier today about the website, biggest blockers there is basically the logo, which isn't really all that big anyway
[19:49] <highvoltage> we should have the website she and dhillion-v10 worked on up well before release at least
[19:50] <stgraber> has the theme been updated to reflect the new colors ?
[19:50] <highvoltage> not yet, the theme I last saw was quite basic
[19:51] <highvoltage> I was thinking today of drawing up a bit of an Edubuntu branding guide, similar to the Ubuntu one on the wiki
[19:52] <highvoltage> I think we could also include the different desktop themes there and gather some wider input
[19:54] <highvoltage> it would most probably be too late to make actual changes by the time we've gathered input, but it would make decisions easier for M
[19:54] <stgraber> +1
[19:55] <highvoltage> yay, someone else is alive :)
[19:55] <alkisg> :)
[19:55] <highvoltage> ok when I have that done I'll send the link out to the mailing list so that everyone knows about it
[19:55] <highvoltage> should we discuss doc day on #edubuntu when sbalneav is around?
[19:56] <stgraber> yep
[19:56] <highvoltage> I think he might want to host it, unless anyone else feels compelled to :)
[19:56] <stgraber> we should schedule it after we have the artwork done
[19:56] <stgraber> or we'll have issues with screenshots and similar stuff due to the final logo not being there yet and remaining artwork changes
[19:56] <highvoltage> we could probably do a website day too the week after next week
[19:57] <highvoltage> ok
[19:57] <highvoltage> I can't think of anything else
[19:58] <stgraber> nothing to add here
[19:59] <highvoltage> ok, that's that then. thanks for joining everyone, seems like we snugly fit it into an hour :)