* dutchie will file a needs-packaging for ccicons and hope that lucid+1 has all the relevant packages00:00
dutchienight anyway00:00
=== jussi01 is now known as Guest4656
humphreybcscreenshots are looking goofd!02:32
donriAre they in the PDF and everything?02:36
humphreybchey godbyk, do you think it'd be worth putting a thin border around each screenshot?02:36
donriUpdate the builds site! And automate it! :(02:37
humphreybcthe one of the firefox looks a bit weird because it just blends with the page02:37
godbykHmm.. maybe, I dunno.02:37
godbykI haven't really looked at 'em yet.02:37
humphreybcthey look pretty good02:37
godbykcompiling now.02:37
humphreybcyou'll have to eventually go through one by one and make sure the alignment and stuff is all good02:37
godbykI know that ubuntujenkins uploaded a TON of 'em today.02:37
humphreybcsome of the captions have overlapped margin notes and things02:37
humphreybcyeah there are quite a few in there now :P02:37
godbykyeah, that'll be another last-minute thing.02:38
humphreybcso did you work out how to keep the descriptions from the TODO commands?02:38
godbykI think I may just make a \quickshot command or something.02:38
godbykI haven't really decided yet.02:38
godbykThe screenshot caption and the quickshot description will be two different things.02:39
humphreybcthey will be02:39
humphreybcwe're just on 500 bug reports now btw02:39
godbykAnd the \screenshot command will print a TODO-like box if it can't find the file.  So we can go ahead and start using those instead (and writing good captions).02:39
godbykI made some global edits earlier today. They might have fixed a few of those bugs.02:40
godbykthings like capitalizing Internet, fixing some quotation marks, and other random stuff.02:40
humphreybcyeah I saw some of those02:40
godbykI was just digging through some docs looking at how to fix some other issues.02:41
humphreybcis there any latex spellchecker thing we can use?02:41
godbykBtw, it looks like I should be able to tell \url to *not* break after a colon.  I'll give it a shot sometime here.02:41
godbykaspell or ispell or one of 'em has a -t option for parsing tex files.02:42
godbykit's not the smartest parser in the world, but it'll skip over most the common latex commands.02:42
humphreybcworth running it?02:42
godbykI'll give it a try a bit later.02:42
humphreybclet me know how you go02:42
godbykwill do.02:43
godbykI'll be back in a little bit.02:43
humphreybcalso, i changed some subsections to sections so they'd appear in the contents02:43
godbykGonna grab something to eat.02:43
godbykI added the glossary to the toc -- just for you!02:43
godbyk(actually, I was surprised it wasn't there. turns out you have to pass the 'toc' option to the glossaries package.  <shrug>)02:44
godbykanyway, brb.02:44
jamindayHey humphreybc: I just rearranged the order of nautilus section a bit02:51
jamindayMakes more sense to have navigating first02:51
jamindaythen opening files02:51
jamindaythen creating folders02:52
jamindaythen copy paste02:52
jamindayKinda least complex to more complex02:52
jamindayIs that ok?02:52
humphreybcsounds good02:53
jaminday500 bugs, wow02:53
humphreybcthere is a severe lack of margin notes in the "Working with Ubuntu" chapter02:53
jamindayYeah i noticed that02:53
jamindayI've added a couple this morning02:53
humphreybcTonight when i go through it I'm going to see if I can take a lot of stuff and make them margin notes02:53
jamindayOk cool. Make sure I've pushed before you do so we don't double up02:53
humphreybchave you seen all the screenshots?02:54
jamindayyeah they are looking good!02:54
jamindayExcept are blurry on my screen - i'm not sure why02:54
jamindayit could be evince?02:54
humphreybcit's evince02:55
humphreybcthey're not blurry in adobe reader or when printed02:55
jamindaywhat do you use in ubuntu? adobe?02:55
jamindayah ok02:55
humphreybcadobe isn't packaged for lucid yet02:55
humphreybcare you still on karmic?02:55
jamindayyep, but i've got lucid in a virtualbox so i can refer to it as i go02:55
jamindayexcept i just broke it trying to install guest additions02:56
humphreybcguest additions don't support lucid yet :P02:56
humphreybcbtw, when you come across screenshots, the captions will need to be looked at02:56
jamindayyeah i just learnt that the hard way!02:56
jamindaythat will probably be the last thing i come back to once bugs are done02:57
jamindayare screenshot captions included in the writing freeze?02:57
humphreybcthey get translated too02:57
jamindayah yes of course02:57
jamindayDid you see that post from the team translating in Tamil?02:58
humphreybcabout the photo?02:58
jamindayHmm.. not sure. I'll dig up the link02:58
jamindayyou might have seen it02:59
humphreybcnope haven't seen it, looks awesome! reading now03:00
humphreybc(those guys are hardcore btw)03:00
humphreybcwhat country is tamil spoken in?03:00
jamindayUmm i'm not really sure - i think it's called kanchipuram ?03:00
humphreybcthat is awesome03:00
jamindayactually that's probably the city03:01
jamindayyeah i know - pen and paper!03:01
jamindayI wrote to them and said they might want to wait till writing freeze before doing too much more03:01
jamindayespecially if they are doing a lot by hand03:02
godbykback.. with banana bread.03:02
jamindaybtw - any bugs on the spreadsheet that we won't have time to address till next version, put 10.10 in the 'fixed' column03:02
jamindaythat way we can keep track of them so they don't get forgotten03:03
godbykI have a ta.po file for the Tamil translation, but it doesn't have any translations yet.03:06
godbykHope everything is going well there.03:06
jamindayyeah same, they seem to be very keen03:06
jamindayThey might be waiting till writing freeze03:06
humphreybcI think I suggested they wait till writing freeze03:07
humphreybcthat is so cool though03:07
godbykjust checking03:07
humphreybcI wonder if there are other groups like this translating the manual03:07
jamindaygodbyk: Just added a link to www.ubuntu-manual.org in the welcome section of prologue03:08
godbyk'bout time someone did!03:08
* godbyk glares at humphreybc.03:08
humphreybcit was already there03:09
humphreybcunder contact details03:09
jamindayah - hang on i'll show you what i did03:09
godbykI fixed some bugs in your 'perfect' chapters, too, humphreybc.  Bugs that I even told you about. :)03:09
humphreybcsuch as?03:09
godbykI don't remember; I'd have to glance at the bzr logs for today again.03:09
godbykmaybe capitalizing Internet or serial commas or somesuch.03:10
humphreybclol ok03:10
humphreybcoh right03:11
jamindaygodbyk: did you say you had a way to fix the web address breaking at the : in the welcome section?03:13
godbykI think so, yes.03:13
jamindayok great03:13
godbykI haven't coded it yet, though.03:13
jamindayno worries03:13
godbykAnd that may cause even worse line breaks, who knows? :)03:13
godbykI need to totally refactor my tufte-book code sometime soon.03:14
humphreybcTamil is spoken in a province of India03:15
jamindayah ok03:15
humphreybcbtw, i need your mugshots people03:16
jamindaythat's right i forgot03:16
jamindayHere you go03:18
humphreybcyou're an idiot03:19
jamindayyou think it's usable?03:20
godbykWow.. that's *exactly* how I pictured you in my mind, jaminday!03:20
jamindayhey godbyk: remind me how i search through the entire manual for a phrase03:22
jamindaynever mind, evince is actually pretty good at searching03:23
godbykif you want to search the .tex files, you can use 'grep "my phrase" -ir */*.tex' from the ubuntu-manual/ dir.03:25
godbykthe -i is for case-insensitive searching, and -r is recursive.03:25
jamindayah cool03:25
jamindayi'll have to remember that03:25
jamindayhumphreybc: In the prologue you said the linux is THE most popular unix-based operating system03:28
jamindayis this correct?03:28
jamindayeven more so than mac os x?03:39
humphreybcwell on servers yea03:39
humphreybci would say that linux overall has a larger market share than OS X03:40
humphreybcyou can chuck the "most" back in there if you like03:40
jamindayyeah i think i will - most people reading this probably will be desktop users03:40
jamindayso it could be confusing03:41
jaminday"and is currently one of the most popular..."03:41
jamindayHey who is in charge of glossary03:42
jamindayOk. I'll leave any bugs that mention glossary for him to look at then03:44
humphreybcright off to class03:52
jamindaygodbyk: ping05:21
godbykjaminday: Hey.05:21
jamindayhey - do you know what the 'power' button in lucid is actually called05:21
jamindayie where you logout shutdown etc05:21
jamindayis the the session management button?05:21
godbykI'm not sure what it's called now, actually.05:24
godbykright-clicking and selecting About just mentions the indicator applet.05:24
jamindayhmm ok.05:24
godbykbut that's what the power button thing is sitting in.05:24
jamindayI could call it the session management button, or otherwise keep it as "Power" button05:24
godbykwhat does the docs team call it?05:25
jamindayI've been looking but cant seem to find it anywhere05:26
godbyklet me poke around a little.05:26
jamindayok. Let me know if you find anything.05:26
godbykI think it's the fast-user-switch-applet.05:32
godbykbut that's a crappy name05:32
jamindayooh awkward nam05:32
jamindayMaybe we could do the inline image like you suggested05:32
jamindayand just call it the "Power" button as it's descriptive05:33
godbykhelp.ubuntu.com didn't appear to mention anything about how to shutdown your computer.05:34
jamindayyeah i couldn't find anything on logout or restart either05:35
godbykwhere are the docs that the docs team writes?05:37
godbykit's a good thing we're writing a manual 'cause I can't find anything!05:37
jamindayI'll leave as is for now then.05:38
jamindayMight talk to ubuntujenkins about putting in an inline image instead of the description05:38
godbykyeah, there are a few others places where displaying the icon (instead of just describing it) would be handy.05:39
godbykwe'll need to collect the icons from the default theme.05:39
godbyka google search for "ubuntu how do I shutdown my computer?" was useless05:40
godbykway down the list, I found a yahoo answers page about it.05:40
godbykthe answer was:05:40
godbyk"Click the button at the top right of the screen."05:40
donriWell, it is a little cryptic. But less so in Lucid, I think?05:41
jamindayYeah lucid is a little more obvious i think05:41
donriIn Karmic, that I should click my user name to shut down, is about as helpful as good ol' windows "click start to stop".05:41
jamindayhehe that's right!05:41
godbykI like the new icon.05:41
godbykjust not sure what its official name is. :)05:42
donriIt's the same icon as most computers have on their power switches, yea?05:42
donriSo maybe call it something like that, "power switch button" and specify its location, "top right corner".05:44
godbykjust call it the power button may be confusing the icon with the physical power switch, though.05:44
godbyk(though pushing the power switch should be fine, too.)05:44
jamindayThis is what it says currently05:44
jamindayWhen you are finished exploring, restart your computer by clicking the ``Power'' button in the top right corner of your screen (circle with a line through the top) and then select Restart05:44
donriScreenshot with an arrow pointing at it? :)05:45
donriBut can't really get more specific than "top right corner".05:46
jamindayyeah that's right05:46
donriThere's nothing that is more to the top right than that button.05:46
jamindaygodbyk suggested just a small image of the icon in-text might be the go as well05:46
jamindayto replace the (circle with line through the top) bit05:47
godbykis it the top right corner for RTL languages?05:49
donriMy laptop uses the standby symbol on the on-off switch. Now I'm gonna have OCD itches about that. :(05:49
jamindayI think it's used a lot now for on-off rather than standby05:50
jamindaygodbyk: thats a good question05:51
=== Guest4656 is now known as jussi01
godbykubuntujenkins: morning.06:55
ubuntujenkinswell if humphreybc wants the wubi in different language we need someone with windows 7 ultimate and they only support 35 languages07:09
ubuntujenkinshumphreybc: screenshots left http://paste.ubuntu.com/400996/ can we scrap the last two?07:16
ubuntujenkinsthe last one is a maybe i think07:17
humphreybcthe GRUB screen would be good07:17
humphreybcwe can scrap the second to last one, number 907:17
ubuntujenkinsdoes grub show it in different langauges?07:17
ubuntujenkinsgood number 9 gone07:18
humphreybcI tried to get a shot of Rhythmbox but my Lucid install wasn't letting my create a new user and then Rbox wouldn't recognize my CD drive and uh07:18
humphreybcoh good point, not sure07:18
humphreybcmaybe scrap GRUB one as well07:18
ubuntujenkinsif it only dies english then it might be easyier as we can include it in all of the manuals07:18
ubuntujenkinsok thanks for trying i will try and get a cd from some one.07:19
ubuntujenkinsif you want the wubi in different language we need someone with windows 7 ultimate and they only support 35 languages07:19
ubuntujenkinsI can get the english one now i have found a wubi that works07:19
humphreybcwe only need wubi in english07:19
humphreybcnot going to bother getting that in multiple languages07:20
ubuntujenkinswill it go in all languages still?07:20
ubuntujenkinsright I wil do that one today07:20
humphreybcthe shots are looking great in the manual :)07:20
ubuntujenkinsI know I just have the hard ones left07:21
humphreybcRed_HamsterX: how's quickshot going? when can we test it?07:21
ubuntujenkinsare there any others that you think we don't need?07:21
ubuntujenkinstotal is now 5307:21
humphreybcwhat's number 6?07:22
ubuntujenkinscreating a day event in evolution07:22
humphreybc"visual example of adding an event in the day view by typing"07:22
humphreybcthe description needs to specify that it's actually in evolution07:22
ubuntujenkinsIt will do, number 5 is questionable as we need to give people an e-mail address to enter07:23
humphreybcscrap that then07:23
humphreybcthe messaging menu isn't fundamental07:23
godbykyou won't get IMs if you don't know how to handle the messaging menu, though, right?07:24
humphreybcyou don't need to do anything with the messaging menu07:24
humphreybcit works with empathy by default07:24
humphreybcplus i think empathy uses the notification system07:24
humphreybcas well07:24
ubuntujenkinshow do you change the language in the log in screen?07:26
humphreybcno idea07:26
* humphreybc has only ever needed to use english ubuntu07:26
ubuntujenkinsI can get away with one screenshot for the whole manaul if i take it before selecting a user, owever it will have "thur" in the bottom right07:27
ubuntujenkinsas in thusday07:27
humphreybcthat's not the end of the world07:27
ubuntujenkinsgood, virtual box isn't playing ball so doing only one makes it easyier07:28
humphreybcAn avant garde tune I wrote for a couple of cellos, a viola and a violin in high school07:50
humphreybcfirst time i've listened to it again in like 2 years, i think it sounds pretty neat!07:50
humphreybcI especially love the part at 2:26, i remember i thought it was gold when I wrote it07:51
humphreybcoh yeah, ubuntujenkins08:10
ubuntujenkinshumphreybc: I will redo it later08:26
humphreybckk neat08:26
ubuntujenkinsI thought there was a new one08:27
humphreybcshould hit Lucid sometime next week08:27
ubuntujenkinsok I wil keep checking08:28
* humphreybc is fixing up the blueprints08:34
ubuntujenkinslol my mate whilst drunk changed his computer password and now he can't think of it :-P08:36
humphreybcthat's a dumb thing to do08:37
ubuntujenkinsIts so funny he is the peson who has windows 7 and is providing screenshots08:38
ubuntujenkinshumphreybc: have we any idea if the default theme is going toi08:40
humphreybcwill find out next week, Ivanka is just double checking with Mark08:40
ubuntujenkinsI hoep not so i con't have to do the screenshot again but I think white is the better default08:41
humphreybcIvanka is pushing for the dark one08:42
humphreybcSo it will probably stay as it is at the moment08:42
humphreybcbut i'm honestly not sure08:42
humphreybclet's see if we can get all the bugs fixed in time for beta, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+milestone/beta-release08:44
godbykflood me with bug emails, why doncha! :)09:06
* humphreybc gets another few thousand karma09:07
humphreybcwhere are those mugshots everyone!?09:39
godbykwhat kind of mugshot are you wanting?09:40
humphreybcone where you're happy to be working on UMP09:40
humphreybcgrinning, even09:40
godbykI don't smile.09:40
humphreybcwell now you have to09:41
humphreybcjust pull a silly face, if you must09:45
humphreybccome on jaminday, cjohnston, godbyk, TommyBrunn, Red_HamsterX, vish I need mugshots!10:04
godbykHeh.. it's 5 a.m. here. You'll have to wait 'til I've had my beauty sleep!10:05
humphreybcokay okay10:05
humphreybcwe had two people deactivate their membership in the team after that large amount of spam10:11
nvsblto anyone who has contributed to the ubuntu manual project: thank you. this is exactly what i needed to help convert my nigh-computer-illiterate friends into ubuntu users10:15
TommyBrunnhumphreybc: What do you need the mugshots for?10:16
humphreybcTommyBrunn: it's a surprise10:16
TommyBrunnHow exciting. :P10:16
humphreybcI know!10:16
humphreybcI need to collect as many as I can10:16
humphreybcso email me yours asap10:16
TommyBrunnAlright. I'm not exactly my most charming self at the moment (I've managed to get sick again), but I'll see what I can do.10:17
humphreybcany photo of you smiling that's at least 800 x 600 is good10:17
TommyBrunnMmm, I've managed to get a blister the size of a kiwi bird on my lower lip, so I'll be sure to show that off.10:19
humphreybclol, don't you have any photos of you already lying around?10:20
humphreybcon facebook or something?10:20
TommyBrunnNot on facebook, I don't think, but I'll see what I can find.10:20
humphreybcgodbyk, you wanna run the build script again and update the draft?10:23
godbykI s'pose10:24
* humphreybc didn't know that Google used Ubuntu so extensively 10:42
humphreybcwho made the awesome progress bar on the website?10:53
godbykno clue. I just assumed it was you.10:54
humphreybcmust have been daker10:54
TommyBrunnSpeaking of which, does anyone know why the countdown timer is so freaking slow all of a sudden?10:56
TommyBrunnIt takes like 5 seconds for it to even start on my machine.10:56
humphreybcoh right10:56
humphreybcyeah same here10:56
TommyBrunnOh, I think I know.10:59
TommyBrunnI would guess that it's because Google Analytics is a slow beast, and the countdown timer doesn't start until the page is fully loaded.10:59
godbyknew builds up: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/11:01
godbykdraft is being pushed as we speak.11:01
TommyBrunnWow, 100% of the Bengali edition seems to be translated. When did that happen?11:02
godbykplus, the countdown timer's javascript is in-line, not loaded during the header.11:02
godbykit's not. it's a bad po file, I think11:03
godbykin any case, postats fails when dealing with it.11:03
TommyBrunnThe italian one seems a bit off as well. It's listed as 100%, but I'm reading it now, and only some parts of it are in italian11:06
TommyBrunnOh, I see.11:06
godbyk$ postats po/it.po11:06
godbykError: "potool po/it.po -ft -s" failed11:06
* humphreybc cannot wait to see a fully translated manual11:06
godbykSpanish is getting there.11:07
* ubuntujenkins curses all the bug mail from humphreybc 11:08
TommyBrunnI'm a bit surprised at how little of the text has been translated. Generally, software projects (especially those hosted on Launchpad) are translated very quickly without ever even asking for help in the first place. But I guess it's a lot harder to translate 150-some pages of text than it is to translate 50 words to be used in some application.11:09
humphreybcespecially when those 160+ pages are ever changing11:09
humphreybcI think we'll see the pace pick up after the writing freeze11:09
humphreybcI'm planning on doing a big push/campaign to get translators moving11:09
humphreybcgodbyk: https://help.launchpad.net/API11:11
fenreYup, I'm not starting before the text stops changing :P11:11
humphreybcfenre: awesome. don't forget to send me your mugshot too11:12
humphreybcgodbyk, we'll have to set up our form with the API at some point. We can get Tim to help us/ask him questions if need be11:12
godbykif they expose the parts we need to access.11:13
humphreybcokay, i'll talk to thumper about it tomorrow11:13
humphreybcgodbyk https://dev.launchpad.net/API/ImplementingAPIs11:14
ubuntujenkinswhere can i get music that i can legaly burn on to a cd?11:15
humphreybcthe Jamendo store?11:15
humphreybcI can have another go at taking the screenshot if you want11:16
ubuntujenkinsI am pssibly going home at the weekend so if that one can wait11:16
humphreybcI'll try taking it for you now11:16
humphreybcwell, in a sec11:16
humphreybcill just change my account theme and stuff11:16
humphreybcit won't have the panels in it, will it?11:16
humphreybcit won't be maximised11:16
ubuntujenkinsnope just the window maximized when the destop is a t 1024x76811:17
humphreybcmy panels aren't default though11:17
humphreybcor should I crop the panels out11:17
humphreybcis that what you mean?11:17
ubuntujenkinsno when you go aplications > accessories > take screenshot choose "grab the current window" and un tick "include pointer"11:18
* humphreybc has to change his window controls back11:19
humphreybcwhat were they? maximize:minimize:close11:19
humphreybcokay taken them11:24
humphreybcgod the default theme is AWFUL11:25
ubuntujenkinsI like it best default theme yet11:25
humphreybcthe "take screenshot of current window" thing didn't work with the window borders11:25
humphreybcit didn't take the window borders11:25
humphreybcso i just took the whole thing, and i have to crop out the panel. so it will be 24px less than 1024 high11:26
ubuntujenkinsin that user go system > preference aperences and turn off effects11:26
humphreybcah okay11:26
humphreybcany more you want me to take since i've got the default theme set up?11:27
ubuntujenkinsno thats fine those were the ones i could do11:27
humphreybcI can take some more if you want11:27
humphreybcassistive technologies?11:27
ubuntujenkinsI only have 5 to do11:28
humphreybcokay then11:28
humphreybcI took two, one with the default and the other with the CD tracklist visible11:29
nisshhhey dudes11:29
nisshhhows it coming along11:29
humphreybchi nisshh11:30
humphreybcyou have lots of work to do! :)11:30
nisshhi know11:30
nisshhonly just got home11:30
ubuntujenkinsthats good thanks humphreybc11:30
* TommyBrunn is taking a mugshot.11:30
nisshhim going to be sorting out my music collection and adding stuff to glossary tonight11:30
TommyBrunnIt just occurred to me that I look a lot like a drunk emo Peter Parker.11:31
humphreybchey cool, the title page for the spanish one is translated11:31
humphreybcnisshh: sweet11:31
humphreybcwe need at least two pages of glossary entries to make it worthwhile11:31
nisshhhave to work hard then lol11:31
humphreybcyou do :)11:31
humphreybcyou've got six days11:31
nisshhhey, i just noticed ilya hasnt been around for a while11:33
ubuntujenkinsI was thinking that11:33
nisshhhavent heard anything11:33
humphreybcyeah, he's probably hiding haha11:33
ubuntujenkinsdoes image bin work for anyone?11:34
humphreybcnisshh: I need your mugshot too11:34
nisshhhumphreybc: saw your blog post of the printed manual, looks really nice11:34
humphreybcubuntujenkins: no11:34
nisshhyea, im getting my sister to take it it in a minute11:34
ubuntujenkinsglad its not just me any where else i can post something?11:35
humphreybctry this http://www.imagesocket.com/!11:36
humphreybcwithout the !11:36
humphreybcOMG EW11:37
humphreybci just clicked "Random"11:37
humphreybcgot this11:37
humphreybcBIG mistake11:37
TommyBrunnMy eyes!11:37
humphreybcthis one's nice11:37
TommyBrunnWhat is this I don't even11:37
nisshhhumphreybc:does the mugshot need to be super high quality?11:37
TommyBrunnThat was the remedy my eyes so needed.11:37
humphreybcnisshh, bigger than 800 x 600 is good11:37
TommyBrunnFreaking great. Now my memory card isn't being detected, for some reason11:37
humphreybcso many pics of girls on that site11:38
godbykI'm off to bed.  See you guys later.11:38
humphreybcugly and nice11:38
ubuntujenkinsninght godbyk11:38
humphreybcgodbyk chow!11:38
TommyBrunnScrew this turdbuntu, I'm going back to Windows! :@ :'(11:38
ubuntujenkinsok guys have a close look does this look wrong? http://www.imagesocket.com/view/01_ubuntu_login7fd.png11:38
humphreybcclicking random is actually quite entertaining, provided you don't come across something shit11:38
humphreybcit's like 4chan, but faster11:39
nisshhubuntujenkins: no11:39
TommyBrunnI'm going to try the old windows trick and see if a reboot has any effect.11:39
ubuntujenkinsnisshh:  good I may have faked it.11:39
humphreybcubuntujenkins: they're going to be changing some stuff in the login screen soon11:40
humphreybchow'd you fake it?11:40
ubuntujenkinshumphreybc: aaaaarrrrrrrrhhhh11:40
humphreybcyou know how the logo and icons are really white at the moment and hardly visible?11:40
humphreybcthey'll be changed to a darker colour at some point11:40
ubuntujenkinswell got the backround and did a screenshot of virtual machine at the wrong res and made it look good in the right res11:40
humphreybcah ha11:41
ubuntujenkinsI noticed but I would like to point out the ui freeze11:41
humphreybcCanonical doesn't adhere to UI freezes11:41
ubuntujenkinsIt's very anoying11:41
humphreybcright, i'm going to get some snacks and then watch a movie11:43
humphreybcnight all!11:43
humphreybckeep workin' !11:44
ubuntujenkinsdon't worry faking grub now11:44
humphreybcTommyBrunn, nisshh, email your mugshots to me11:44
ubuntujenkinsvirtualbox doen't know what 1024x768 is its more like 1024 x 192011:44
TommyBrunnhumphreybc: Sent it11:49
humphreybcaww you need to smile more!11:51
nisshhhumphreybc:sending it now11:52
TommyBrunnIf you're making a collage with the subtitle: "The smiles of Ubuntu", you're going to give me diabetes.11:53
humphreybchahaha not quite11:53
nisshhdarn, none of us will ever quess11:54
humphreybcyou'll just have to wait11:54
humphreybcit's really cool though11:54
nisshhso you will show us at the end of april?11:55
nisshhand i just sent my mugshot off to your gmail11:56
ubuntujenkinswoo grub is done http://www.imagesocket.com/view/08_grub_boot_screenf2b.png11:58
TommyBrunnOoohh, today is waffel day here in Sweden. I need to get myself a waffel iron.11:59
TommyBrunnubuntujenkins is that the official grub in 10.04?11:59
ubuntujenkinsthat is grub uptodat at the moment11:59
ubuntujenkinsif they change it it better be easy to fake12:00
TommyBrunnI wonder why they don't do something with grub. It seems every other distro is, so why not Ubuntu?12:00
ubuntujenkinscheck out burg that is really good12:01
TommyBrunnI've seen it, I just don't really feel like messing up grub. I've already done that too many times.12:01
ubuntujenkinsI keep doing clean installs to get screenshots so I haven't bothered12:03
ubuntujenkinsTommyBrunn: http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=12110512:05
jamindayhumphreybc: just saw your post on the tamil translation team12:08
ubuntujenkinswell lets see if i have broken grub ;-) i may or may not be back12:11
ubuntujenkinsit worked and nvida boot splash is looking good12:19
ubuntujenkinsmattgriffin, have you decided on the screenshots for ubuntu one yet? I only have 3 left to take to complete them all12:42
mattgriffinubuntujenkins: not yet. i should know in a few hours12:43
mattgriffini'll ping you when i have the list12:43
ubuntujenkinsthanks, was about to say that12:43
nisshhjust pushed initial work on the prologue to lp13:04
nisshhmore coming later13:04
nisshhi meant glossary13:05
nisshhalso if anyone has any suggestions for glossary items, please say so13:05
donriWill the screenshots look this pixely in print/final PDF?13:14
donriOh, probably just evince sucking at scaling images.13:18
ubuntujenkinsdonri: it is evince being sucky13:19
donriSad, as most people will be reading in evince.13:20
donriI wonder what it uses to display images, and if it could be patched to use whatever eog uses (which scales much better).13:21
ubuntujenkinsi have no clue i am afraid13:23
ubuntujenkinsdoes any one have access to windows 7?13:23
ubuntujenkinsare the wubi only works in vista compatible mode13:28
nisshhour college computers run win713:32
ubuntujenkinsthanks for the offer nisshh but I have now got it sorted.13:36
ubuntujenkins7 doesn't like the wubi you haev to tell it to run it as vista13:36
artnayhow do I find which translations have errors? I'm looking at the build log at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ - what should I look for?13:39
ubuntujenkinsartnay: look at the errors colum it tells you how many errors which one are you after?13:40
artnayyeah, there's like 24 out of 300 now. but which ones cause those errors? I'm looking at http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-fi.log and there's no mention of "error"13:41
artnayany way to track down those 24? ctrl+f and ...13:42
jamindaynisshh: ping13:42
ubuntujenkinsthere is no way of tracking it down easily you will have to ask godyk when he wakes up13:43
ubuntujenkinsartnay: you know that you can still see the pdf even if there are errors it many not be complete thought13:44
artnayI think it's those compound words (in Finnish) which are related to those words that have (LaTeX?) syntax13:44
artnayubuntujenkins: true, I already checked that one13:44
ubuntujenkinsI have a feeling they will be laytex errors13:45
artnaysame, but not knowing which translations have errors will cause a lot more problems if we continue translating13:46
artnayhave to investigate the syntax a bit to complete this task...13:46
ubuntujenkinshave you seen the notes for translators?13:47
artnayubuntujenkins: sure I have13:47
ubuntujenkinsok then amke sure you haven't tranlated stuff that you shouldn't have, I have to run to alecture but I will try and do a build of it when i get back and see what errors i find13:48
artnaybut, umh, here's an example. so we have "company named \gls{Canonical}" in the english sentence. but in Finnish (and many more langues) that translates to "\gls{Canonical}-niminen yritys"13:49
artnaydoes the dash break the syntax?13:49
artnayso we now have compund word that should have a dash just next to the text "Canonical"13:50
ubuntujenkinsI have no clue i am afraid I will look when i get back sorry go to go13:50
artnayI see only warnings in the log, not actual errors. anyways, I'm too tired atm to inspect this any further. please highlight my nick if you reply, thanks.13:56
nisshhjaminday: yes, sorry i was busy13:59
nisshhjaminday: what did you ping me for?14:00
nisshhartnay: the dash should not break the syntax unless the word niminen forms part of the word Canonical in your language14:04
nisshhif need be i can move that latex code somewhere else14:05
artnaynisshh: it does form a compound word14:06
nisshhso your saying that to say the word canonical in your language you need to say "canonical-niminen"?14:06
artnayunless we want to rephrase the whole sentence (which probably would make the whole sentence a bit complicated)14:07
nisshhsorry, if it takes me a little while to grasp what your trying to say, i am an english only speaker14:07
artnayso basically yeah, there are a lot of situations where you have to combine the original word and the finnish word with a dash14:09
artnayGNOME desktop environment would be GNOME-työpöytäympäristö14:09
artnayso I think the dash breaks the syntax. is there and escape charater?14:09
nisshhhave you run make and looked at the manual?14:10
artnaysorry, lots of typos here (won't be in the final draft of manual!)14:10
nisshhit shouldnt break the syntax from what i understand14:11
nisshhbut basically, whatever phrase in finnish makes up the word canonical should be inside those curly braces.14:12
nisshheverything else should be outside them'14:12
artnaynisshh: 1. haven't run any make for this 2. I've been looking for answers at wiki & ML14:12
nisshhok i will try this out, what is the code for finnish e.g. UK is united kingdom14:13
nisshhok give me 2 minutes14:13
nisshhrunning make now14:14
artnaynisshh: I could figure out those problems if only I saw the actual error lines14:14
nisshhhmm ok, well where you have translated the terminal commands, they seem to have broken, they come up with wornings during compilation14:17
nisshhwarnings i mean14:17
artnaythere's a's and o's with dots14:17
artnaylike account = käyttäjänimi14:17
nisshhright ok14:18
nisshhhmmm, well since i cant read finnish i cant tell if the syntax is actually broken14:21
nisshhyour going to have to check for me14:21
nisshhill guide you through compiling the manual and you can see the errors and check the pdf for breakage ok?14:21
artnaynisshh: well enough14:22
nisshhok so have you got the latest revision of ubuntu-manual from launchpad14:22
artnaynisshh: main.pdf?14:23
nisshhoh, have you compiled it?14:23
artnayno I haven't. so where do I get the source?14:24
nisshhoh did you download the pdf from our website?14:24
artnaynisshh: from here http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ and now I'm browsing https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main14:25
artnayso there's a makefile, right.14:25
nisshhright, ok do you have bazaar installed?14:25
artnaysorry, nope.14:25
nisshhyes theres a makefile14:25
nisshhok your running ubuntu though?14:26
artnaydebian but I have lucid in virtualbox14:26
nisshhok can you install the bzr package in lucid please, i assume you know how to install stuff?14:26
artnaynisshh: sure, it's warming up ;)14:27
nisshhok cool14:27
nisshhonce thats installed go to an empty directory somewhere in your home directory14:27
nisshhdoesnt  matter where14:27
nisshhyou with me still?14:28
artnaynisshh: I'm here with fsck, will take some time before lucid is up14:28
nisshhoh ok, so your translating from debian?14:29
artnaynisshh: using launchpad, yeah. I'm at work now, no Ubuntu here.14:29
nisshhok well i do believe you can get bzr in debian14:30
nisshhif thats any easier for you14:30
artnaywell bzr is now installed in lucid14:30
nisshhok good14:30
nisshhso now open a terminal14:30
artnayand now I should fetch those files with bzr, hmh?14:30
nisshhyea , but bzr will put the files in your current directory14:31
nisshhso you should make a temporary one14:31
artnayyes, I'm in an empty dir atm14:31
nisshhok cool14:31
nisshhso now run: bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual14:31
nisshhand it should fetch all the files for you14:32
nisshhoooh nice net connection14:32
nisshhway faster than mine14:32
nisshhwhich is 160KB/s14:33
artnayshouldn't take long, 1.2MB/s currently14:33
artnay70 MB fetched14:33
nisshhi think its about 130mb14:34
nisshhmaybe more14:34
artnaydone, 585 revisions14:34
nisshhok cool14:35
nisshhso now go into the newly created ubuntu-manual directory14:35
artnaypwd ... /home/ubuntu/bzr/ubuntu-manual14:35
nisshhand run: make ubuntu-manual-fi.pdf14:35
nisshhthis will compile a pdf in your language14:36
nisshhit does take a little while though14:36
artnaymy vb-lucid was missing po4a, now it's installed. now it can't exec "kpsewhich", /usr/share/perl5/Locale/Po4a/TeX.pm14:38
artnayso, umh, some TeX magic missing?14:38
nisshhoh no, darn it i forgot14:39
nisshhyou need texlive installed14:39
artnayuh, 229 MB to fetch. ~40 secs14:39
nisshhwhat is it fetching?14:40
artnay4 MB/s from the main repos, way better than the country mirror14:40
nisshhok, so your installing texlive?14:40
nisshhmake sure its texlive 200914:40
jamindaynisshh: sorry was trying to fix some bzr issues14:41
nisshhjaminday: yea sorry my commit and someone elses diverged14:41
jamindayyeah that's ok i think it was me!14:41
jamindaythink i got it sorted thought14:42
nisshhso do i14:42
nisshhthere were 2 conflicts14:42
jamindayyep thats right14:42
jamindayscariest moment of my life14:42
nisshhartnay: hows it coming along?14:43
artnaynisshh: so if someone else is up to the same task, the default installation needs po4a and texlive before you can even try to make14:43
nisshhyes we have a script for that14:43
nisshhi completely forgot14:43
artnaynow the make fails, po4a::tex: Can't read from file without having a filename at /usr/bin/po4a-translaite line 22914:43
nisshhits in the branch you downloaded under pkgs/install-pkgs.sh14:44
nisshhit will install everything you need14:44
jamindayanyway i'm heading to bed, but nisshh was just gonna let you know that i changed a few bugs in the spreadsheet to your name as they were regarding the glossary14:44
nisshhok thanks14:44
nisshhif they were from godbyk i already saw them14:44
jamindayah ok, don't worry then14:45
nisshhunless hes submitted more14:45
jamindaywasn't sure if you had or not14:45
nisshhyea thanks14:45
jamindayno i don't think so, probably the ones you saw14:45
artnaynisshh: so I tried "sh install-pkgs.sh", it told me No version of TeX Live was detected.14:45
jamindayanyway, i'll be back tomorrow for some more bug-fixing fun!14:45
jamindaynight all14:45
artnayapt-cache show texlive says it's 2009-714:45
artnayand yeah, it's installed.14:46
nisshhok, there is a downloadable script that installs texlive 2009 for you14:46
nisshhfollow these instructions:14:46
artnaysh install-pkgs.sh --> Checking TeX Live version...Status: install ok installed -ne E[33m14:47
nisshhoh, the script works now?14:47
artnaynope, that's the error msg14:47
nisshhoh ok here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors14:48
artnaythen it gives me a link to wiki14:48
nisshhat the bottom of tha page14:48
nisshhthere are instructions on how to install texlive 200914:48
nisshhbut there is one thing missing14:48
nisshhmake sure you enable create symlinks in the texlive install script14:48
artnayI do need the build-essential for that, right?14:49
artnayuh... my wife is waiting at me ;)14:49
nisshhjust install build-essential and then run the script14:49
artnayfor me even14:49
nisshhif you have to go dont worry14:49
artnayumh, can we continue this tomorrow or some other day?14:49
nisshhi need some sleep anyway lol14:50
artnayI would like to learn the procedure and then help with the translations14:50
nisshhcool just jump in here tommorrow and someone will be here14:50
artnayand I need to learn more that TeX syntax14:50
artnayok, thanks and sleep well!14:50
ubuntujenkinsartnay: I am back sorry I had to go in arush how is it going?15:01
ubuntujenkinsartnay: after thinking about it i think you should leave \gls{Canonical}-niminen yritys as that, laytext is only effected by the stuff in the {}15:03
ubuntujenkinsthe rest appears as it is15:12
ubuntujenkinsartnay: I can now build you manual with no errors that stop it being built it was the same thing through out15:18
ubuntujenkinsas for the Canonical thing if the way you pronounce it is Canonical-niminen then it should be how nisshh said15:24
* ubuntujenkins I suppose i better do some revision ping me if you want help15:40
Red_HamsterXAnyone know when titeuf usually gets on?15:54
ubuntujenkinshe hasn't been on for a day our two but he is utc+1 so about 3 hours ish would be my guess15:55
ubuntujenkinsat least i think he is utc+115:55
Red_HamsterXSounds about right.15:56
Red_HamsterXI'm not sure how much more I reallyneed to do with the backend, so I'd like to start making sure the frontend works.15:56
Red_HamsterXI really need*15:56
ubuntujenkinsthat would be good, I have only 1 screenshot left to take and the ubuntu one one's15:57
Red_HamsterXAnd then we need to decide whether we want to pull them from the server on demand as lower-quality JPEGs (to make Quickshot's package smaller and to decouple data from implementation) or push them out with the client for speed, only pulling anything added after the freeze from the server.15:58
ubuntujenkinsthe largest one is 406.8KB total 3mb16:00
ubuntujenkinsI think pull them from the server16:00
Red_HamsterXI think so, too. It'll make changing thing on the fly a lot easier, and we've already developed and implemented the functions to make it work.16:01
ubuntujenkinsmeans the program is future proof, for the next release if someone were to try and use an older version of quickshot16:01
Red_HamsterXWell, the next version will work differently... I'd say it means the design is future-proof.16:01
Red_HamsterXJust not this implementation.16:02
Red_HamsterXSince it's very much just a "get stuff working" structure right now.16:02
ubuntujenkinstrue it just means that people can't aciedently take older screenshots16:02
Red_HamsterXIt needs a good refactoring cycle before we can be sure we're building it right.16:02
ubuntujenkinswe need to get testing it16:03
ubuntujenkins7 days untill release16:04
ubuntujenkinswe need to add the files to the sever for each screenshot that tell it what program to launch etc.16:05
Red_HamsterXThat's part of the dictionary structure.16:11
Red_HamsterXI'll be working on that as soon as we've got proof that the client pulls data properly16:12
Red_HamsterXIt's already defined and tested.16:12
ubuntujenkinsis it all one file? I looked at the one in the branch16:12
Red_HamsterXIt just hasn't been integrated into the user's flow.16:12
Red_HamsterXYeah, just one.16:12
Red_HamsterXEntries are delimited by -<name>- lines.16:12
Red_HamsterXTo allow for ordering in the event that you want to drop the number prefixes from the filenames.16:13
Red_HamsterXThat file is considered authoritative for everything.16:13
ubuntujenkinsthats where the screenshot description goes as well16:13
Red_HamsterXAnd the steps and the sub-rect data and anything else we may need to add as we go along.16:14
ubuntujenkinsI can help create that if you like, once we know it works16:14
Red_HamsterXAny unknown fields are just treated as free-form text.16:14
Red_HamsterXIt works. It just needs to be integrated with the workflow.16:14
Red_HamsterXI can quickly populate it with dummy data for each screenshot we have to take.16:15
Red_HamsterXIt can be updated in real time, since the client will have to query each individual entry before taking a screenshot.16:15
Red_HamsterXSo once the skeleton is done, we can just keep adjusting it until everything looks right.16:16
ubuntujenkinsI have jsut pushed the latest screenshots they are in /images/screenshots-samples16:19
ubuntujenkinswe are going to have 43-48 to do some of the other screenshots will be the same in all languages, ie grub, wubi, help icon, netwrok icon, window buttons.16:20
Red_HamsterXWhy not create a 'common' language branch outside of the coded ones for things like that?16:30
Red_HamsterXThen just update the pull/compile scripts to draw from that location, too.16:30
ubuntujenkinsI hadn't considered how i was going to do that, but Iw ill make that branch now16:31
ubuntujenkinsOnly the screenshots we haev to do are in the quickshot branch16:34
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87 and Red_HamsterX in the manual at the end there is a list of people who have contributed, what are you names as you would like them to appear ?17:29
titeuf_87ubuntujenkins, sure, it's Simon Vermeersch.17:30
ubuntujenkinsthanks I will add you when i next do a push17:31
ubuntujenkinsgood day titeuf_87 ?17:31
titeuf_87just got home from work and have some time now, so yeah :)17:31
titeuf_87looking over at the changes made in quickshot, you only took the screenshots but haven't yet added any extra information right?17:32
ubuntujenkinsyep, Neil said he will add the info, the screenshots are going to be pulled from the server as an when needed, that way we can change them at the last minute if needed17:33
titeuf_87And those that you included are definitive?17:35
Red_HamsterXNeil Tallim works for me.17:36
Red_HamsterXAnything you want me to look into on the GUI side, titeuf?17:37
ubuntujenkinsyes as far as i know I haven't ahd any writers moaning that i have got them wrong 01-first-slide will look different but will still be of that screen17:37
ubuntujenkinsthanks Red_Hamster17:37
titeuf_87Red_HamsterX, I'm going to add the detection of the used language now, then the descriptions of the screenshots before taking them17:38
titeuf_87Hmm, not sure what else needs to be done on the GUI side except for polishing it then.17:38
ubuntujenkinswow i didn't know we were that close.17:39
Red_HamsterXSo we just tell it what server to use (probably some sort of global constant) and go?17:39
Red_HamsterXIf so, I'll do some testing today.17:39
Red_HamsterXAnything you absolutely want me to stay away from?17:40
titeuf_87Yeah, right now it uses your test server as default, although you can override it by launching it with --server.17:40
Red_HamsterX(i.e., sections of code you're working on and want to have left alone)17:40
ubuntujenkinsfeel free to add the screenshots to the en bzr branch to check for the bzr hand shake17:40
titeuf_87the gui side of the code is a bit of a mess (all in one class, different styles mixed together), but let's keep it that way and not make any big changes now17:41
ubuntujenkinsthe gui needs tidying up17:42
titeuf_87except for the get_active_language function, feel free to play around17:42
titeuf_87going to eat now, back in a little bit17:43
Red_HamsterXThere's ugliness everywhere in the PHP side and error-detection could be a bit less draconic, so I can't criticise you for cluttered design. =P17:43
Red_HamsterXBesides, we just need to have something working at this stage. We can use the next six months to make it right.17:44
ubuntujenkinsvery true17:44
Red_HamsterXIs the LiveCD that was discussed usable?17:45
ubuntujenkinsit will be when it is finished I need a ppa of wuickshot to finish it off17:45
ubuntujenkinsit will have quickshot pre installed and all of the languges. I couldn't get the default user to be Quickshot17:46
Red_HamsterXSpeaking of PPAs, can we make them depend on other packages?17:46
Red_HamsterXIn a liveCD environment, would the default user actually have to be Quickshot?17:47
ubuntujenkinsnot sure I will look into it, what are the dependacies apart from disper17:47
ubuntujenkinsno it doesn't have to be quickshot but that was the ideal case17:47
Red_HamsterXWhat about adding a dummy file to /etc/skel/ that tells Quickshot is can do whatever it wants?17:47
Red_HamsterXit can do*17:47
Red_HamsterXpython-gtk2 and python-wnck17:48
Red_HamsterXAs far as my stuff is concerned.17:48
ubuntujenkinsif people starts taking screenshots then they will all have ubuntu in the top right and not quickshot17:48
Red_HamsterXwnck is used to automate maximizing and stuff when possible.17:48
ubuntujenkinsadded to the listy17:48
Red_HamsterXAnd it will (time permitting) be used to replace my raw WM hints calls.17:48
Red_HamsterXIt handles failure and geometry better.17:49
Red_HamsterX(libwnck is part of Gnome. The Python bindings, however, are not)17:49
ubuntujenkinswell if we can get a pre release out soon then we can get a head start and the change can be made in an update.17:49
ubuntujenkinswell i have a deb of quickshot now17:54
Red_HamsterXIs it easy to build one using debhelper?17:55
Red_HamsterX(In case I want to try it on some other systems)17:55
Red_HamsterX(Which I probably won't)17:55
titeuf_87back now17:56
titeuf_87normally quickly will detect the dependencies for us when it makes a deb package17:56
Red_HamsterXOh, right. I forgot about that.17:57
ubuntujenkinsall i did was quickly package but dependacies were not detected17:57
Red_HamsterXAbout Quickly's facilities, I mean.17:57
ubuntujenkinsalso before we package there are a few lines of code to change17:57
ubuntujenkinsoff to get food o/17:58
titeuf_87I just did a quick test of packaging and it correctly found python-gtk2 and python-wnck as dependencies.18:04
=== titeuf_87_ is now known as titeuf_87
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87: where did it list the dependancies?18:33
titeuf_87ubuntujenkins, I installed it and checked in synaptic (there's probably a better way to check without having to install it first, but I'm not sure how)18:33
ubuntujenkinsare makes sense rather obvious, i am going to try and make disper a dependancy as well18:34
titeuf_87I thought that was only needed for nvidia cards?18:34
ubuntujenkinsyes but it is neater if we have it as a depndancy than having to check it is installed every time18:35
* ubuntujenkins should really learn how to spell dependency18:36
titeuf_87It's why I love using the built-in spell-checker in xchat.18:37
ubuntujenkinsI do but I type to quick and often forget to check18:37
titeuf_87Is disper available in the standard ubuntu repositories?18:38
ubuntujenkinsno its not, I am hoping the developer will let us add it to our ppa18:38
ubuntujenkinshe has a ppa of it18:40
titeuf_87Problem with that then that everyone that wishes to use quickshot will need to install that package, even if they don't use an nvidia card.18:42
ubuntujenkinsmm I know the bit at the start anoys me, with out it the program flows better18:43
titeuf_87Well lshw doesn't work that fast, which is used to see if we have an nvidia card.18:45
titeuf_87Can't we replace that with something faster?18:45
ubuntujenkinsnot sure i will see what we can do, at the moment adding a manual dependency doesn't work18:46
ubuntujenkinsyou are suppose to be able to do quickly configure dependencies but it doesn't work18:47
titeuf_87Basically we could check the xorg.conf file to see what driver it uses...although, not sure if that's a great way to go about it.18:48
titeuf_87Also, does the livecd use the binary nvidia driver?18:49
Red_HamsterXxorg.conf doesn't exist by default.18:49
ubuntujenkinswe can't as 10.04 doesn't have one by default,18:49
ubuntujenkinsthe live cd will use nouvea which excepts xrandr18:49
titeuf_87It depends on how most users will take the screenshots, if most will download the livecd you're making, then it won't be an issue as we can always use xrandr then.18:50
ubuntujenkinsI think we will have to leave it as it is at the moment18:51
titeuf_87Yeah, it's not -that- bad as it only happens once at startup.18:52
Red_HamsterXWhy does nvidia support matter?18:52
ubuntujenkinsbecause we want as many users as possible to take screenshots18:53
Red_HamsterXWe should be able to screencap things with only VESA...18:53
titeuf_87The only reason we check for nvidia is to be able to change the resolution automatically.18:53
ubuntujenkinsalso godbyk will so file a bug if we don't support nvidia :-P18:53
Red_HamsterXThat makes sense.18:57
Red_HamsterXWhy couldn't we just use VESA for that?18:58
Red_HamsterXThat should support xrandr just fine.18:58
Red_HamsterXJust pare down the modules list to restrict what X can load.18:58
ubuntujenkinsi may be on the wrong vesa but wikipedia says VESA has issued a number of standards, mostly relating to the function of video peripherals in personal computers18:59
ubuntujenkinsi am confused on the use of vesa19:00
dutchieubuntujenkins: did you get that packaging up the manual is not going to work?19:00
ubuntujenkinsno i missed that19:00
ubuntujenkinswhat shall i do a ppa shot of?19:01
titeuf_87vesa is a really basic driver that works with every graphic card and doesn't use any kind of acceleration19:01
Red_HamsterX"VESA", referring to the X driver, is among the most primitive in existence. Every card in circulation supports it.19:01
Red_HamsterXIt's got no card-specific enhancements.19:01
Red_HamsterXIt's not really much more useful than a framebuffer.19:01
titeuf_87And we could use that for the livecd, but we can't change the graphic drivers of already installed systems.19:01
Red_HamsterXBut it should be enough.19:02
ubuntujenkinsdoes it support 1024x768?19:02
Red_HamsterXtiteuf beat me to it. D:19:02
ubuntujenkinsalso it may be to much for this release19:02
titeuf_87Doesn't support compiz though and all those shiny effects, but I don't think you can actually see that in screenshots.19:03
Red_HamsterXNot having those would be kinda helpful, actually.19:03
ubuntujenkinsi guessed that19:03
ubuntujenkinsto what titeuf said19:03
Red_HamsterXSince their drop shadows add to the geometry of windows.19:03
ubuntujenkinsooo we have a quickshot question19:04
Red_HamsterXOh, no!19:04
ubuntujenkinsjust answering now19:04
titeuf_87On the UI-side of things, when would be a good time to show the steps/explanation of the screenshot?19:07
titeuf_87Right now I show its description under the list of screenshots when you select one, but I still need to show the explanation steps.19:08
titeuf_87Adding another window with just that before the capture window does seem kind of silly.19:08
ubuntujenkinsput them in the capture window19:08
titeuf_87I'll try, hopefully the window won't get too big.19:09
ubuntujenkinsjust a thought also can we decorate the window with only a mimize button?19:09
titeuf_87We can, although I don't think that's really needed. The capture window hides itself right before taking the screenshot so it'll never show up.19:10
ubuntujenkinsI was thinking if the user has to set some stuff up that happens to be behind it19:11
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87: you know the comment you put on line 190 if the quickshot file next to os.system('cd /home/quickshot/quickshot && bzr pull lp:quickshot')19:12
titeuf_87Forgot to ask why it was there.19:13
titeuf_87But I don't think it's needed: this is run when quickshot is already launched, if we do that we'll have to check if any files got changed, and if any were, then restart quickshot.19:13
ubuntujenkinswhen you are next there can you uncomment it as it means we don't have to run quickly run -r all the time. It updates the user with the branch every time we open the quickshot program in the quickshot user19:14
ubuntujenkinsit may be in the wrong place then19:14
ubuntujenkinsI didn't add it19:14
titeuf_87Also, if we package quickshot on a livecd or in a ppa we can't just download the latest version from bzr.19:15
ubuntujenkinsI know that line will be one of the ones that goes from the code before packaging19:16
ubuntujenkinsthey are work arounds whilst we use quickly19:16
dutchieusing quickly is not a barrier to having a ppa19:16
dutchieit's a positive boon19:16
ubuntujenkinsreword (work arounds for the testing branch)19:17
titeuf_87ubuntujenkins, try out my latest changes I just pushed?19:18
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87: pulling now19:18
titeuf_87If everything works well, this was the last bit that was missing for basic functionality.19:18
ubuntujenkinsTraceback (most recent call last):19:18
ubuntujenkins  File "bin/quickshot", line 25, in <module>19:18
ubuntujenkins    import babel19:18
ubuntujenkinsImportError: No module named babel19:18
Red_HamsterXWe'll probably want to show the user the commands that will be issued to launch applications.19:19
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87: what should the module be19:19
titeuf_87Install the python-pybabel package ubuntujenkins19:19
Red_HamsterXJust so they don't authorize something bad, like rm -rf ~/*19:19
Red_HamsterX(Maybe a tiny label at the bottom of the screenshot prompt window)19:20
ubuntujenkinsi forgot that package I did a clean install the other day19:20
titeuf_87They wouldn't lose much as it runs as its own user. But doubt anyone would want to use quickshot anymore if someone ever sees a command like that.19:21
titeuf_87But I'll it in there anyways.19:22
titeuf_87Red_HamsterX, does your server mention if a screenshot should be a full-screen one instead of just a window?19:23
Red_HamsterXWell, it's more of a precaution than anything else...19:23
Red_HamsterXIt's an optional dictionary value.19:23
Red_HamsterX'maximize': bool19:23
Red_HamsterXThere's also 'maximize-delay': int.19:24
Red_HamsterXWhich is the number of seconds to wait after launching the subprocess before trying to maximize it.19:24
titeuf_87Ah I thought maximize meant that we should try to maximize the application.19:24
Red_HamsterXOh, it does.19:24
Red_HamsterXI haven't written anything to manage subprocesses.19:25
Red_HamsterXBut if you give me a module into which such functions should be placed, I'll add it.19:25
Red_HamsterXManaging processes seems like it should be outside of the Webserver/Xserver domain.19:25
titeuf_87Yeah, right now the applications gets launched when we click on the next button after selecting a screenshot.19:26
titeuf_87And gets maximized too if needed.19:26
Red_HamsterXif data_dict.get('maximize'): sleep for delay (if specified), attempt to auto-maximize.19:26
titeuf_87I meant for full screen screenshots, like one of the whole desktop, without any applications running.19:27
Red_HamsterXThe maximize function I provided is only semi-reliable, though. It doesn't keep trying until the window's state changes, though I could add that functionality with a thread, if needed.19:27
Red_HamsterXNo, there's no flag for that.19:27
Red_HamsterXI figured that would be implied by the lack of a command.19:28
Red_HamsterXBut we can add an explicit value, if you want.19:28
Red_HamsterX(It's super-easy to do)19:28
Red_HamsterXActually, maybe we should...19:28
Red_HamsterXSince it's possible that there may be something we can't launch programmatically.19:28
Red_HamsterXBut still need to capture in windowed form.19:29
titeuf_87I think it's better to explicitly add that, although I can't think of an example right now of why.19:29
Red_HamsterXJust come up with a key for it, then.19:30
Red_HamsterXI'll translate it into a boolean.19:30
titeuf_87Just use fullsceen, simple enough and will avoid confusion.19:30
Red_HamsterXOkay. Gimme a moment to add it.19:31
ubuntujenkinsok going to do a reboot then i will test quickshot the user detection is palyinmg up19:39
titeuf_87Ah good, that means we can fix it. What's wrong with it?19:39
Red_HamsterX'fullscreen' is now an optional boolean key. Assume False if not set, I suppose.19:39
ubuntujenkinsnot sure19:39
Red_HamsterXI can give it a default value if you want, but .get() sould be sufficient.19:39
titeuf_87It's fine like this, thanks!19:40
* Red_HamsterX updates the docstrings.19:40
titeuf_87Could you also add an example screenshot like the gedit one on your server that uses fullscreen and another one with sub-rect?19:41
Red_HamsterXWe should probably start adding real screencap entries.19:41
Red_HamsterXBut, yeah, I'll add two more in a moment.19:41
* Red_HamsterX collects food-stuff.19:42
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87: it works :-)19:44
ubuntujenkinscan you neaten up the windows i metiont he other day19:46
titeuf_87Ah right, what was the problem with that exactly?19:47
ubuntujenkinsthey are supposibly set up the same but they look different19:47
titeuf_87Right, I'll take a look.19:48
ubuntujenkinsthansk i can't work it our19:48
titeuf_87I always run quickshot with -n so I don't see those windows.19:49
ubuntujenkinsclick skip so you can see the other window.19:49
ubuntujenkinsI have to do some revison but ping me and i will look when i get back19:50
Red_HamsterXThere are now three entries.19:53
Red_HamsterXAlso, entries will show up in the order they're defined in the dictionary.19:55
Red_HamsterXSo you don't need to have any sort of local list.19:55
Red_HamsterXOr worry about working in alphabetical order or anything like that.19:56
titeuf_87Ah, I do explicitly order them. I'll take that bit out then.19:59
Red_HamsterXIt occurred to me last night that preserving order would probably be helpful.20:04
titeuf_87ubuntujenkins, I just fixed those layout problems, I think it looks fine now, but let me know if it doesn't.20:53
ubuntujenkinstiteuf_87: they look better but the icons are two far to the left also the label for the countdown has gone.21:07
ubuntujenkinsits a definate improvement though21:07
titeuf_87Ok, I'll fix those issues too.21:10
ubuntujenkinsThansk I think the label was label1921:10
titeuf_87it showed below the normal text right?21:11
titeuf_87I was wondering why an empty label was there and deleted it.21:11
ubuntujenkinsyea but you can put it where you like, it doesn't look that good there21:11
titeuf_87ubuntujenkins, going to finish this tomorrow. I'm going to bed now.21:17
titeuf_87Night all.21:17
ubuntujenkinsnight titeuf_8721:18
ubuntujenkinsdutchie i fixed the build for the fi manual if i upload the po file will i break any thing?21:59
dutchienot if you didn't do anything wrong21:59
dutchieemail me a diff if you like to check it22:00
ubuntujenkinswhats your e-mail? I only removed a \ from about 10 lines for some reason some commands have two \\ in and work but others don't22:01
ubuntujenkinsdutchie: sent22:04
dutchieyou'll probably get greylisted, so I may have to wait a while22:04
ubuntujenkinsok, on lucid when a windows in active do the buttons change order for you?22:05
dutchieno, they just change colour22:05
ubuntujenkinsoh no its the background that changes the oval shape is messed up22:06
ubuntujenkinsdutchie: http://www.imagesocket.com/upload/22:07
ubuntujenkinsopps http://www.imagesocket.com/view/Screenshotd57.png22:10
dutchienope, not seeing that22:11
dutchiefile a bug22:11
ubuntujenkinsyour e-mail failed22:12
dutchiebah, manualbot22:12
ubuntujenkinshello manualbot22:12
dutchieyou ruined my countdown,22:12
ubuntujenkinsok e-mail sent a again typo as usual22:15
ubuntujenkinsnight all22:15
dutchieubuntujenkins: ahh, don't go22:16
jamindaymornin' all22:16
dutchiedid you try building the manual in that language?22:16
ubuntujenkinsmorning jaminday22:16
dutchiedid it work>22:16
dutchiego for it then22:16
ubuntujenkinsI will ask gobyk in the morning as there are a few errors with chapter links but it does build fine22:17
ubuntujenkinsI am confused why there is a double \ before most commands22:18
ubuntujenkinsbug #54338422:18
manualbotLaunchpad bug 543384 in simple-scan "Toolbar confusing for new users" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54338422:18
ubuntujenkinsthank you manualbot22:18
ubuntujenkinsnight all22:19
jamindaydutchie: ping22:39
dutchiejaminday: pong22:39
jamindayare you familiar with the command "sudo change -M 90 username"22:39
jamindayhmm - you have access to the bug spreadsheet? There is a bug report we aren't sure on22:41
jamindaydutchie: actually don't worry - i think the offending section has already been removed from the manual22:44
godbykI'm awake again.22:49
godbykJust reading through 8 hours of backlog. :)22:49
jamindaygodbyk: fun!22:50
godbykTo donri: It's evince. If you load our pdf using xpdf or acroread (Adobe Acrobat Reader), then they look a lot nicer.22:51
godbykartnay: Errors in the log files are marked by one of two things: The word "Error:" or an exclamation point (!) at the beginning of the line.22:51
godbykartnay: The hyphen won't break the syntax in \gls{Canonical}-niminen yritys.  But you do have to make sure that 'Canonical' stays untranslated here and only translate the name/description parts in the corresponding \newglossaryentry line.22:53
godbykOkay, caught up on the backlog now. :)23:19
semioticroboticis this syntax correct?23:31
semioticroboticSee \chaplink{ch:system-maintenance} for how to update your Ubuntu computer with the latest security updates and patches.23:31
godbyksemioticrobotic: Yes, the syntax is fine.23:33
semioticroboticthanks, godbyk23:33
godbykno problem23:33
semioticroboticis jamin still here?23:34
godbykartnay: Whenever you get back: The only LaTeX-related problems I found in the Finnish translation is that when you type "uusi_hakemisto", you need to escape the underscore (_) character with a backslash (\).23:34
godbykartnay: So change "uusi_hakemisto" to "uusi\_hakemisto" in the four instances and the manual compiles fine.23:34
godbykjaminday: ping23:35
semioticroboticjaminday, that bug report regarding "chage?"23:35
semioticroboticI was the one who edited that portion out of the manual!23:36
godbykI'll be right back. Need to find something to eat.23:37
godbykBack.. with chili.23:49
jamindaygodbyk + semioticrobotic: hey, sorry pidgin has decided to stop telling me when someone pings me23:59

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