[02:26] hi team [02:29] Hi. [02:29] :) [02:30] * humphreybc is listening to some crazy russian music from the Jamendo music store [02:35] IlyaHaykinson: ! [02:35] you're back! [02:38] yeah [02:38] hi IlyaHaykinson [02:38] i was reading all the emails, pretty much, but been tough to contribute. [02:38] this will unfortunately continue on and off, but i'll help where i can... [02:38] * IlyaHaykinson waves to daker [02:39] IlyaHaykinson: that's okay [02:39] we've been pretty busy [02:39] have you seen the branch recently? [02:39] i know. [02:39] hey daker! [02:39] yeah, i built and submitted a few copyedits [02:39] awesome [02:39] cleaned up chapter 4 (removed empty sections) [02:39] we thought you'd fallen off a cliff or something [02:40] I've been meaning to go through chapter 3 (your chapter) [02:40] oh. yeah, first i was in las vegas for a weekend. [02:40] Kevin and I both printed off the manual about a week ago [02:40] and then i was in Oregon for almost a week, with crappy internet [02:40] i saw your photos. [02:40] I had it bound at uni, been going through with a red pen [02:40] looks very cool. [02:40] Yeah [02:40] i'll print the final one for sure [02:40] I've had a glance over your chapter, while it's very good I've noticed a lack of margin notes compared to the rest of the manual [02:41] Hey, IlyaHaykinson. [02:41] so I have been meaning to take some of the stuff that's in the main body and perhaps move it into margin notes, haven't got round to it yet [02:41] * IlyaHaykinson waves to godbyk [02:41] IlyaHaykinson: when you talk to the CC people, you should ask them if the reference 1(f) should be 1(h) in the paragraph for section 1(b). [02:41] (was that confusing enough?) :) [02:42] :P [02:42] humphreybc: yeah, i didn't use the margin notes enough. [02:42] feel free to change things [02:42] okay [02:42] overall your chapter is the best in terms of error-free [02:42] so I'm not too worried [02:42] godbyk: are you sure that this is not an artifact of me using itemize/enumerate incorrectly? [02:43] but I'm hoping to cut it down a wee bit in length by moving some stuff to the margin [02:43] humphreybc: are you sure? i'm not comfortable that i did enough testing when writing. [02:43] IlyaHaykinson: no, I think it's a bug in the license text as it stands on their website. [02:43] IlyaHaykinson: you haven't seen the other chapters =S [02:43] godbyk: hah, interesting. let me take a look. [02:43] humphreybc, oh, i did. [02:43] there are some chapters that are just ridden with craziness [02:43] we're getting there though [02:44] amazingly quickshot will be ready [02:44] so we still have a chance of getting all these screenshots and translations done [02:45] The quickshot devs have been seriously kicking butt. [02:45] * godbyk is impressed [02:46] * humphreybc is also impressed [02:46] * humphreybc was telling some other people in the community about quickshot and they couldn't believe it [02:48] godbyk, daker, I wonder if we can implement the wiki contributions page with the instructions into the website? [02:48] I was thinking about it last night [02:48] sure [02:48] * daker is trying Ground Control [02:48] we could leave the current get involved page as it is, but rename it to "About the project" [02:48] daker: ground control is broken at the moment, it won't validate your launchpad account details [02:48] I think we can probably migrate all the wiki stuff to our own site. [02:48] okay [02:48] so this is how I was thinking [02:49] o.O [02:49] we rename Get involved to "About the project" or something similar [02:49] remove the link at the bottom that points to our wiki [02:49] THE SCREENSHOTS ARE VERY NICE. [02:49] we add another page to the menu bar [02:49] oops, capslock [02:49] which is called "Get invovled" [02:49] Why rename "get involved"? I like it. [02:49] involved* [02:49] the problems i see are a) we use the quickshot account, but probably some other name is better [02:49] no because we want the get involved page to be about how to get involved :P [02:50] b) some screenshots need arrows, to show different parts of the UI [02:50] the get involved page is basically just our wiki contributions page, but prettied up somewhat [02:50] humphreybc: isn't it now? or no? [02:50] * godbyk looks [02:50] godbyk, sort of [02:50] c) some of the screenshots show an empty state of applications/desktop, which makes it difficult to establish context [02:50] the current get involved page gives an overview of the project and who we need, then links to the actual instructions on how to get started [02:50] i.e. no emails in the inbox, no contacts, etc. [02:51] so we can keep it like that, but rename it to something more appropriate and use the "Get involved" thing for the actual page which shows you how to get involved in the various roles [02:51] IlyaHaykinson: I think having some fake (and informative) content would be good. [02:51] IlyaHaykinson: yeah, I know [02:51] I was thinking about that [02:51] Not sure how to go about it though [02:51] I just looked at the 'get involved' page, humphreybc. I see what you're talking about now. [02:51] as for the quickshot name and image, we can very easily change that to John Doe or something [02:51] godbyk, sweet [02:52] so we make the Get Involved page more of an "overview" of the project, with some information and some history + who we're looking for. If they're keen, there will be a link down the bottom to the new "Get Involved" page (which will also be on the nav bar) [02:52] When we create the account, we could drop in some data files that are filled with sample data. [02:52] we'd just have to create the stuff first. [02:52] that could work [02:52] we'll have to talk to ubuntujenkins about it [02:53] I think the hardest part will be creating good content. (especially if we're talking about multilingual stuff!) [02:53] the nav bar will have Home, Downloads, About the project, Get Involved, Contributors [02:53] the content should be realistic, but fictional. (a little bit funny is okay, too.) [02:54] in the future once we implement the launchpad API to use our custom form, we'll also have the "Report a Bug" nav entry [02:54] godbyk, +1 [02:54] godbyk, example content? [02:54] we could move contributors to a subpage/subsection of 'about' [02:54] humphreybc: yeah, the example content [02:54] I mean the example content in your home directory on a fresh install [02:54] we could use some of that [02:54] oh. [02:55] yeah, but most of that's boring. :) [02:55] I want the contributors to be obvious, don't want to hide them away [02:55] fair enough [02:55] we *could* make it a link from the about page but I'd like to avoid that if possible [02:55] so daker, have you got all that? :P [02:55] we'll see how crowded the nav bar gets [02:55] well, the home directory already has sample content [02:55] yeah [02:55] like pics, documents, etc [02:55] IlyaHaykinson: yeah, that's what I was talking about [02:56] but we also need emails, contacts, something other than about:home in the browser [02:56] no, step by step humphreybc [02:57] right [02:57] daker, i'll do some instructions on an etherpad for you [02:58] yeah [02:58] Oh, and IlyaHaykinson.. something we really need to start working on as soon as we get half a minute is a style guide. [02:58] a lot of the 'bugs' I'm finding are just inconsistencies. [02:59] so we need a more precise style guide, you mean... [02:59] yes. [02:59] Something akin to the GNOME docs style guide. [02:59] (The Ubuntu docs style guide doesn't seen nearly as well-developed as the GNOME one) [03:00] agreed. [03:00] i think this is a post-beta thing for sure [03:01] we need to incorporate your writing style guidelines, the latex stuff, the translation stuff, and a whole host of other things into one style guide. [03:01] godbyk, i found this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~qense/%2Bjunk/liblp-php/annotate/head%3A/phplaunchpadlib.php [03:01] daker: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPwebsiteA [03:01] without the [03:01] A [03:01] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPwebsite [03:02] daker: cool! I'm going to take a look at the launchpad integration stuff after the beta. [03:02] ;) [03:04] daker, does the stuff on the pad make sense? [03:04] yeah [03:04] awesome [03:04] I hope that won't be too hard [03:05] no [03:05] :D [03:05] It'd be neat if we could get some photos of each role, like some cheesy pictures of some people designing something [03:05] (and laughing) [03:05] Facebook says that 91% of our fans are male [03:06] hhhh [03:06] big surprise :) [03:06] 9% margin of error? [03:06] lol [03:06] 9% female, actually :P [03:06] some more fun stats [03:06] Femals don't exist on the Internet! [03:06] USA is the biggest fan base, with 87 fans coming from there [03:07] Athens is our top city, with 33 fans [03:07] Athens is weird. [03:07] They seem to love my sites... [03:07] We have 759 fans in total [03:07] Hellow, Morocco how much? [03:07] According to Analytics. [03:08] humphreybc, , Morocco how much? [03:08] our largest age group is 18-24 with 35% of our fans being that age [03:08] closely followed by 25 - 34 on 31% [03:08] daker, Morocco has 20 fans [03:08] Oh [03:08] Canadia? [03:08] Canada isn't on the list [03:09] The top 5 languages spoken by our fans are [03:09] :( [03:09] English (US) 273 [03:09] English (UK) 90 [03:09] Python? [03:09] French (81) [03:09] Spanish (70) [03:09] Spanish (Spain) 35 [03:10] we've had 91 active fans this past week, with 267 total interactions... 99% of those were from males [03:15] my new monitor arrived on friday but no one was here to sign for it [03:15] aw, c'mon! [03:15] * godbyk hates bzr [03:15] now i have to figure out how to get to the depot to pick it up [03:15] lol [03:15] * daker hates bzr too [03:15] what's it done now? [03:16] It's just cool ot hate. [03:17] brb [03:17] I just did a ton of edits, didn't see anything to pull, committed and tried to push: FAIL. [03:17] daker sneaked in a website change on me. :-) [03:18] oops [03:18] all fixed now. [03:18] I finished fixing all the bugs my python script has found so far. [03:18] now I need to start reading through the manual again and find more bugs to add to my script. [03:19] IlyaHaykinson: I wrote a short python script that scans the .tex files for common errors (e.g., missing commas after 'however', punctuation on the wrong side of the quotation marks, etc.) [03:20] everyone can feel free to send me bugs that you see repeatedly and I'll add them to my script. [03:21] The linguist in me feels rage at the existence of your script. [03:21] "I shall forever rage at your script, however futile my efforts may be." [03:22] * daker is listening to Outlandish - Feels Like Saving The World [03:23] Red_HamsterX: The linguist in me is happy to accept any help I can get. [03:23] The script doesn't make any corrections. Just suggests possible errors. [03:23] I'd be delighted to offer it, were I not occupied with so many other tasks. [03:23] The pedant in me is pleased with himself. [03:23] Ah. [03:23] Then I like it. [03:24] I'll try to do an edit run over some key sections once Quickshot is frozen. [03:24] Red_HamsterX: There are currently 17 possible errors that it's showing me that I've rejected as errors. [03:25] For example, PPA should be all-caps, normally. But in the case where it's used on the command line, it's all lowercase. So I ignore the script's suggestion to capitalize PPA in that case. [03:26] Apparently people don't like to use commas around 'however'. Fixed a ton of those. [03:26] But again, there are situations where you *don't* use commas there. [03:26] I'd suggest a comma after your introductory adverb. [03:27] So the script will never make the changes for you -- just suggestions. [03:27] It's optional. :) [03:27] Not in my absolutist world. [03:27] Though in formal writing, I'm prone to using commas there. [03:27] lol [03:27] * Red_HamsterX shall conquer the world, merely to enforce his own personal views about punctuation and editorial styles. [03:28] I thought all linguists were supposed to be of the 'descriptive not prescriptive' attitude! [03:28] Ha! Unless I get there first! [03:29] Pfft. Only feminist linguists. I subscribe to conflict theory and I'm on the side that's right. [03:29] ('feminist' referring to the sociological term, not the movement) [03:30] My interest in linguistics applies to machine learning and interpretation, not human-to-human interaction. [03:31] Red_HamsterX: Same here. Computational linguistics. [03:31] Red_HamsterX, #lojban :) [03:31] Aww... You used the name of our shared area of academic interest. :( [03:31] And if people just followed my rules all the time, it's make NLP a whole lot simpler! [03:32] Agreed. [03:32] http://xkcd.com/114/ I have to link to this whenever anyone mentions the name. [03:32] lol [03:33] 'Cause I had it taped my Eee through all classes on the subject. [03:33] taped to* [03:33] godbyk, if you could pls check if the url_rewriting is enabled [03:33] I sent that to my linguistics professor last year and he laughed and conceded that it was true. [03:33] daker: if it's not, you can enable it using a .htaccess file. [03:34] Oh, wow. #lojban is real. And it's big. [03:34] I don't have to know Logban to converse in there, do I? [03:34] the .htaccess file isn't uploaded to the server [03:35] You could add it, couldn't you, daker? [03:36] i can [03:36] daker: go ahead. :) [03:37] Red_HamsterX: You don't have to speak Logban, but if you use a syntactically ambiguous sentence, you'll be banned. :) [03:37] But... [03:37] Gah! [03:37] godbyk, the problem is that there was already an htaccess, and i can not find it [03:38] Now I can't resist! [03:38] It'll take you five minutes to write each sentence, as you'll have to parse it repeatedly just to verify that there's only one allowable syntax tree. [03:38] * Red_HamsterX finds someone who can appreciate ambiguity expressed through puns. [03:39] But there's *always* another valid syntax tree! [03:39] NULL COMPLEMENTS! [03:39] daker: I don't follow. It doesn't appear that there's a .htaccess file in the website/daker-test/ dir, so you should be able to add one. [03:39] http://xkcd.com/191/ [03:40] I'm familiar with it, donri. Thank you, though. [03:41] ui [03:41] Red_HamsterX: I suppose. [03:44] You might find http://uguu.ca/ar-sphaela/hymmnoserver/ interesting, godbyk. [03:44] Note that I had to make up a large number of phrase-types due to the unstructured nature of the language. [03:44] Red_HamsterX: My class project from ages ago: http://tagninja.org/ [03:44] godbyk, It'll take you five minutes to write each sentence, as you'll have to parse it repeatedly just to verify that there's only one allowable syntax tree. [03:45] sorry [03:45] godbyk, bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged. Use the missing command to see how. [03:45] Use the merge command to reconcile them. [03:45] Wrong copy-target? [03:45] bzr merge [03:45] Patch first. [03:45] Wow, talk about throwing my words back in my face. :) [03:45] Er... Prepare a patch* [03:45] hhh [03:45] To avoid that in the future, always pull before committing. [03:46] daker, if you run 'bzr status' does it show any files not related to the website as modified? [03:46] if not, then you can safely 'bzr merge', then 'bzr commit', then 'bzr push' [03:46] daker@ubuntu:~/ubuntu-projects/ubuntu-manual$ bzr status [03:46] modified: [03:46] default-apps/gettingonline.tex [03:46] default-apps/listening-to-audio-and-music.tex [03:46] default-apps/microblogging.tex [03:46] default-apps/readingcomposingemail.tex [03:46] godbyk, your sign-up page is made of labels-on-the-wrong-side-of-inputs. [03:46] default-apps/taking-notes.tex [03:46] default-apps/using-instant-messaging.tex [03:46] default-apps/viewing-and-editing-photos.tex [03:46] default-apps/watching-videos-and-movies.tex [03:46] installation/installation.tex [03:46] prefs-hardware/displays.tex [03:46] prologue/prologue.tex [03:46] unknown: [03:47] website/daker-test/.htaccess [03:47] pending merge tips: (use -v to see all merge revisions) [03:47] Kevin Godby 2010-03-28 [merge] * Merging with main. [03:47] Actually, having those in there isn't a sign of badness. [03:47] Red_HamsterX: yeah, it's apparently all kinds of messed up now. we banged it out in a week at the end of the semester, so it's quite slap-dash. [03:47] * daker is lost [03:47] Since those are likely other peoples' sub-revisions. [03:47] We haven't lost any data to merging yet. [03:48] yeah, those are my revisions. [03:48] And it's happened a not-small number of times. [03:48] For some sort of set expressible in terms of arbitrary sizes. [03:48] merging will be find there [03:48] fine there, rather. [03:49] So daker: [03:49] i am lost [03:49] bzr commit -m "Merging with main" [03:49] bzr add website/daker-test/.htaccess [03:49] bzr commit -m "Adding .htaccess file." [03:49] bzr push [03:49] [assuming no one else pushes in the meantime] [03:50] * Red_HamsterX holds off his `bzr del * && bzr commit -m "MWAHAHA!" && bzr push`. [03:50] +on [03:51] Red_HamsterX: you're so evil! :) [03:51] Oh, wait. This is version-controlled! [03:51] godbyk: re your script, nice. i'll tweak it for some other things i look for when i have a chance. [03:51] Evil plan thwarted! [03:51] * Red_HamsterX cries. [03:52] IlyaHaykinson: cool [03:52] it's all regexes, i assume? [03:52] IlyaHaykinson: pretty much, yeah. [03:52] on lines, or whole files? [03:52] godbyk, it works [03:52] it globs the .tex files, scans them one at a time, line by line. [03:52] not the most efficient way, but it's a quick-and-dirty script [03:52] thanks [03:52] daker: so what's mod_rewrite get us? [03:52] Scripts aren't required to be efficient. [03:53] The ability to rewrite URLs. [03:53] Oh. [03:53] Wait. Wrong person asking. [03:53] * godbyk glares at Red_HamsterX disapprovingly. [03:54] line by line is actually a bit of an issue, since i (and some other authors) add newlines [03:54] we will see if it works [03:55] IlyaHaykinson: right. so far it's checking for word-level errors (common misspellings, punctuation errors, etc.). [03:55] but at some point, we may want to improve the parsing. [03:55] Sounds like something I'd like to help with. [03:55] It's one of those 'add features as you go' things. :) [03:56] Red_HamsterX: feel free. [03:56] I guess I should add it to the repository then. [03:56] Right now, Quickshot is more needy, attention-wise. [03:56] that's true. [03:56] for you, at least. :) [03:56] what about running it through [ai]spell? [03:56] I wouldn't mind helping with quickshot, but I have my hands full with editing the manual. [03:56] Even though I fixed the last major capture bug. [03:57] IlyaHaykinson: you could. I've been doing that a bit here and there. [03:57] I wouldn't mind editing the manual, but I have my hands full with Quickshot (and five other projects) [03:57] i did a while ago; i'll take a crack at it post-beta [03:57] there's probably some python interface to .spell, too. [03:57] nod. i used that, last time. [03:57] little fixes we can make whenever; it's the large scale fixes that we need right now. [03:58] like removing empty/incomplete sections (there are still some left over), fixing gross mistakes, etc [03:58] yeah, there are tons of those, too. [03:58] spelling and some minor grammar can be done later, since they won't exist in translated versions. [04:00] as long as we branch to fix the spelling/grammar issues. [04:01] well I got my second 24" monitor [04:01] otherwise anything we touch in the files will affect the translations as seen by rosetta/launchpad. [04:01] it's pretty sweet, I tried it out with my laptop in dualscreen (so laptop + 24" + 24") [04:01] Ubuntu didn't like having all three going at once so I could only get the two 24" going and my laptop with the lid closed. Was cool but I don't have enough room on my desk :P [04:03] http://stellvia.uguu.ca/~flan/images/p_00004.jpg You need a desk more like this, then. [04:03] daker: I think it'd be nice if our urls didn't have the ? in them. So it should be http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/bugs instead of http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/bugs [04:04] can you set up the site to allow that? [04:04] Red_HamsterX: is that your desk?! [04:04] Yes, it is. [04:04] awesome! [04:04] how many computers!? [04:04] Far more than what you see there. [04:05] crazy [04:06] Red_HamsterX: nice, er, monitor stands. ;-) [04:06] I'm frugal. :) [04:06] what size monitors? [04:07] 21.5", 19", 19", 19". [04:07] All linked with Synergy. [04:07] godbyk, thats what iam doing [04:07] disappointed, they should all be 24" at least [04:07] P [04:07] :P & [04:07] I hate huge onitors. [04:07] daker: awesome [04:07] monitors* [04:08] this is my setup currently, http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4472287022/sizes/o/Q [04:08] Broken link. [04:08] http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4472287022/ works, though. [04:08] man [04:09] Looks like a dorm. [04:09] my stupid copy and paste is broken [04:09] I think it's parcellite [04:09] nah it's my bedroom [04:09] well [04:09] bedroom + office + music studio [04:09] (I live in a flat) [04:13] Bleh. I'm stuck in godbyk's Tagninja thing. [04:13] * Red_HamsterX returns to doing productive things. [04:13] Red_HamsterX: you're actually playing it? nice. [04:13] There seems to be some sort of corruption in one of the questions. [04:14] As s varies from zero to T, the values of s for which **f and **f cross C will be denoted by **f and **f respectively. [04:14] a tip: you get points whether you answer correctly or not. :-) [04:14] Yeah, I noticed. [04:14] I'm wondering if the sound reflects quality of answer. [04:14] Nope. [04:14] The sounds are randomly selected from a pool. [04:14] 1. a service in the Roman Catholic Church formerly read or chanted at 3 PM (the ninth hour counting from sunrise) but now somewhat earlier [04:14] The points are potentially affected by the quality of the answer. [04:14] 2. a canonical hour that is the ninth hour of the day counting from sunrise [04:15] Those are the responses. [04:15] If your answer matches the popular answer, you get more points. [04:15] I don't see how they relate. [04:15] Oh, it's based on popularity? [04:15] Lame. [04:15] I thought it was based on prescriptive correctness. [04:15] I think initially it is.. Initially, you're playing against tagged corpus. [04:16] But after we've seen that you're not an idiot (or a bot), then it migrates you over to untagged corpus. [04:16] The idea is that you're tagging text for us to train the algorithms with. [04:16] (Though we never actually finished the project and got to that point.) [04:16] Ah... [04:16] Okay, that makes sense. [04:16] A lot of sense, actually. [04:17] It'd actually complement another algorithm I devised for a project... [04:17] (That algorithm being a form of crowdsourcing) [04:17] I think it's a decent idea. The gameplay should be vastly improved, but I think that sort of game couple be made fun and serve as a good way to tag corpora. [04:17] right [04:17] (Channel full of geeks + shiny toy = Wikipedia effect) [04:24] lol [04:24]