[09:37] <jussi01> Do we currently have a leader?
[11:57] <ScottL> jussi01, my answer would be, "effectively, no."
[14:02] <jussi01> ScottL: thats what I thought...
[14:02] <jussi01> can haz leader pls kthxbai
[14:03] <rlameiro> good morning
[14:03] <rlameiro> does anyone had the same thing? after install, ubuntustudio didnft installed either network manager either wicd?
[14:11] <jussi01> rlameiro: thats right. 
[14:11] <jussi01> rlameiro: everyone should have that.
[14:11] <jussi01> iirc, its available for install on the DVD, but not installed by default.
[14:11] <rlameiro> should i file a bug on thet?
[14:11] <jussi01> no
[14:11] <jussi01> Its intentional
[14:12] <rlameiro> intentional?
[14:12] <jussi01> Ubuntustudio machines are meant to be offline.
[14:13] <rlameiro> jussi01: i understand that if you want to use it for music production, but what about multimedia performances
[14:13] <rlameiro> there are alot of things that need networking
[14:13] <jussi01> rlameiro: thats why it is on the dvd. 
[14:13] <rlameiro> for example puredata using netsen/netreceive
[14:14] <jussi01> So you dont have to somehow get online with out it.
[14:14] <rlameiro> or for example OSC
[14:14] <jussi01> rlameiro: yes, I dont doubt there are applications that need it.
[14:15] <rlameiro> i dont have a problem installing it, it is easy, and i have done it for  past releases, but it should be friendlyer for the firstcomers
[14:16] <jussi01> rlameiro: the normal usecase doesnt need it.
[14:16] <rlameiro> jussi01: ok, so what would be the normal use cas?
[14:16] <rlameiro> case*
[14:17] <rlameiro> is it an Audio Production unit?
[14:55] <scott-work> lol jussi01 "can haz.."
[14:57] <scott-work> rlameiro: I wasn't part of the decision making on this but this is how I view it
[14:57] <scott-work> using the assumption that it was installed by default first
[14:58] <scott-work> it makes it a no-brainer for people who need wifi, but it might make someone unaware about it recording audio to loose audio (which is lost forever)
[14:58] <rlameiro> well, i really dont think that the majority of the useres use ubuntustudio in a sandbox
[14:58] <rlameiro> a lot of people use it on their laptops
[14:58] <jussi01> rlameiro: thats not the feedback we received.
[14:59] <scott-work> in the other case (not installed by default) people who need it can always install it from disc and the audio recording guy will not miss audio, so if weighing consequences this seems a prudent solution right now
[14:59] <rlameiro> maybe we should try to have some kind of info retrieval , to have an idea of how many users exist, and what they use the system for
[15:00] <jussi01> rlameiro: would be nice........ 
[15:00] <scott-work> i have too considered using Studio on a laptop, but it was to be used as portable recording for jamming with the band
[15:00] <rlameiro> as I said before, i dont have a problem with it, i can installit myself easily.
[15:00] <rlameiro> scott-work: i used ubuntustudio as my primary computer
[15:00] <rlameiro> and it performs very well
[15:01] <rlameiro> when i need to do intensive audio i just go to the panel and disconnect wireless networking
[15:01] <rlameiro> it is much easier
[15:01] <rlameiro> bu that is me
[15:02] <rlameiro> i dont make "studio" work often
[15:02] <rlameiro> maybe this come in the idea some of had before, to add different choice to ubuntustudio
[15:03] <rlameiro> like multimedia or Unimedia packages
[15:03] <rlameiro> things like pd-extended, arduino, processing etc
[15:04] <rlameiro> but anyway, maybe the best solution is to make a PDF file and put it on the desktop when you first boot
[15:04] <scott-work> if the dev and community base for ubuntu studio was bigger then that would be fantastic (different flavours of studio), but currently i fear we are on the precipice of falling apart
[15:04] <rlameiro> and inform the users that they can install networking making this and setting audio preferences like that etc
[15:05] <rlameiro> can it be done for this release?
[15:05] <rlameiro> or the feature freeze doesnt allow it?
[15:08] <rlameiro> scott-work: what would be needed to the ubuntustudio stay afloat?
[15:09] <rlameiro> more devs? what kind of devs?
[15:09] <rlameiro> I can try to recruit some people
[15:43] <scott-work> rlameiro: my thought is that additional knowledgeable devs are needed, specifically:
[15:43] <scott-work> someone who knows how ISOs are made and can troubleshoot when things aren't built correclty (uninstalable binaries, etc)
[15:43] <scott-work> someone who udnerstands themes and how they are created (including metacity and murrine engine)
[15:44] <scott-work> someoen to give the project a direction (stochastic and I did that somewhat with a push for lv2 packages for lucid)
[15:44] <scott-work> someone as a community liaison to communicate with the community
[15:44] <scott-work> document lead to help create what the community needs to use and help us
[15:45] <rlameiro> well, i cant design good, lol 
[15:45] <rlameiro> but I can help on making some help files
[15:45] <rlameiro> and be on the forums and IRC
[15:45] <scott-work> also a testing lead who knowlegably understand what tests are needed and can community to the community (and other devs) what to do and how to document it
[15:46] <scott-work> rlameiro: showing a presence on the forums and IRC is as important as well and thank you for doing it :)
[15:46] <rlameiro> maybe we should push some call for help
[15:47] <rlameiro> I could try to get into some podcast for them to ask for help
[15:47] <rlameiro> maybe opensource musicians podcast
[15:47] <rlameiro> or linux outlaws?
[15:47] <rlameiro> what do you think about the idea?
[15:48] <rlameiro> and maybe we need also some webdesign help
[15:49] <scott-work> those suggestions echo what I have been thinking (although I forgot about OSM) but I was hoping we could be organized about it though
[15:50] <rlameiro> ok
[15:50] <scott-work> i have other suggestions as well but I wanted to clearly organized them and then present them to others
[15:50] <rlameiro> I can speak directly with the OSM host
[15:50] <rlameiro> and one of the OSM host speak regularly with the linuxoutlaws host
[15:51] <scott-work> yes, i heard your podcast interview with them :)    hopefully, other interviews can be scheduled with other podcasts as well
[15:51] <rlameiro> i am in the moment in #ubuntu-artwork to see if someone is interested in making art for US
[15:55] <scott-work> new artwork for lucid may be too late at this point, but we can always use it later though
[15:57] <rlameiro> scott-work: I think one problem for ubuntustudio is the release schedule
[15:57] <rlameiro> is to fast, so i think internally people should aim maybe for feature in yearly basis
[15:58] <rlameiro> like making an intremediate release and a big realease
[15:58] <rlameiro> like art work , themes and other things ike that
[15:59] <rlameiro> makingnew themes every 6 months for ubuntustudio is difficult with a small artwork team
[16:02] <scott-work> there had been disucssion about limited new artwork for just new releases or something similar (i wasn't part of that either, i've just read IRC chatter about it)
[16:02] <scott-work> s/limited/limiting
[16:02] <rlameiro> ok
[16:02] <scott-work> s/new/LTS
[16:02] <rlameiro> so it is not new
[16:02] <rlameiro> yea, LTS versoins should have a new version indeed
[16:03] <scott-work> sorry English is my native language and speak (or type it) so poorly sometimes in haste
[16:03] <scott-work> discussion had been to limit new artwork or themes to LTS versions only
[16:03] <scott-work> that is what I believe
[16:06] <rlameiro> I like that idea
[16:06] <rlameiro> well we should try to work to have it at least for the next release
[16:07] <rlameiro> and then concentrate on new features and correcting problems
[16:07] <rlameiro> I am thinking in making a kind of ubuntustudio Config panel
[16:08] <rlameiro> something with ubuntustudio controls + another things
[16:08] <rlameiro> maybe using the script that  archlinux has for audio
[16:08] <rlameiro> with some preconfigured things
[16:08] <rlameiro> like networking yes/no
[16:08] <rlameiro> kernel RT
[16:09] <rlameiro> software outside ubunturepos etc
[16:09] <rlameiro> It will be made in python
[16:10] <rlameiro> but for now, what i think is more pressing for the community side of the thing is have a more dynamic website
[16:10] <rlameiro> maybe with showcase, screencast
[16:10] <rlameiro> how tos
[16:10] <rlameiro> etc
[16:10] <rlameiro> i know most of this thing does exist, but arent on the ubuntustudio webpage
[16:10] <scott-work> absolutely, screencasts and how tos are good ideas
[16:11] <rlameiro> it would help if it was
[16:11] <scott-work> i thought about an online jukebox to feature studio made audio
[16:11] <rlameiro> so maybe we need desperatly a web designer/scripter ASAP
[16:11] <rlameiro> packager cant do all the work
[16:12] <scott-work> very true
[16:12] <rlameiro> i am very bad on that, i am strgling to make my own drupal website
[16:12] <scott-work> heh, done that same and stalled
[16:12] <rlameiro> but i think that ultimately the problem relyes on the ubuntustudio exposure
[16:13] <rlameiro> even for canonical
[16:13] <rlameiro> if exist more exposure, maybe they wil assign someone of the team to help
[16:16] <scott-work> i'm hoping to evelate ubuntu studio's "presence"
[16:17] <rlameiro> who is in charge of the webpage at the moment?
[16:17] <scott-work> hopefully this will increase community use and support (testing, bug reporting, transitioning to developers)
[16:17] <scott-work> cory was and I think stochastic is sort-of at the moment
[16:18] <scott-work> stochastic was supposed to set up a meeting for those interesting including detrate who expressed interest and had been working on a few things
[16:18] <scott-work> but it hasn't happened lately, stochastic hasn't been very involved lately
[16:19] <scott-work> re: python and ubuntustudio config panel - i like the idea of adding functionality to ubuntustudio-controls and some of your ideas i think should be addressed
[16:20] <scott-work> perhaps a rewrite of the UI and addition of functionality is in order
[16:20] <scott-work> i would suggest, however, to incorporate it into the ubuntustudio-controls package as it is already in the archives
[16:20] <rlameiro> well, i will try to make some knd of mock up of the ui for people review
[16:20] <rlameiro> yes of course
[16:21] <rlameiro> i will be ubuntustudio controls, it has no logic otherwise
[16:21] <rlameiro> there is a package a ppa etc
[16:38] <scott-work> rlameiro: can you come up with a list of functions or features you think should be included in ubuntustudio-controls (wireless, etc) in addition to it's present functions?
[16:39] <rlameiro> in PDF?
[16:39] <rlameiro> scott-work: or in some wiki?
[16:40] <scott-work> you might also look at this to see if it generates any ideas as well    http://www.sandgreen.dk/index.php?side=python_uat
[16:41] <rlameiro> scott-work: I also speaked with the Opensourcemusicinas podcast for some caal for help
[16:41] <scott-work> i would like to use this list so gather other's thoughts and ideas as well so I would suggest mailing the -dev list
[16:41] <rlameiro> they will squeeze it into some next podcast
[16:42] <scott-work> it would frustrating to work in isolation and complete it only to have someone say, "oh, you should have added this really awesome feature also!"
[16:42] <rlameiro> of course
[16:49] <rlameiro> I think i saw somewhere on the forums some app for setting ausio optionsoptions 
[16:49] <rlameiro> i am not sure if it was this or not
[16:49] <rlameiro> i will need to digg it up
[16:54] <scott-work> rlameiro: i also want you to be aware that some of your suggestions may be rejected for reasons that you may not agree with, but we have to work within the collective group
[16:54] <rlameiro> scott-work: I am no a pro coder
[16:54] <rlameiro> far from that
[16:55] <rlameiro> and i will accept the different views of everyone
[16:55] <scott-work> it's not the coding, there are politics involved as well, just like getting JACK into the main was a laborious process when most Studio involved people thought it should have been a given
[17:01] <rlameiro> yeap, that was a hard one
[17:02] <scott-work> but I am encouraged by and support your enthusiasm.  I look forward to reading your suggestions and seeing what the group will offer by way of suggestions, moderations or criticisms
[18:01] <scott-work> I couldn't get jack-beat to work in lucid alpha3 and beta1, will someone else try as well before I file a bug?  I tried the -testers mail list but no one has replied (and I don't think they will)
[18:28] <rlameiro> scott-work: https://files.one.ubuntu.com/q19pn6SnQ8W3SuEIVr2QfA
[18:29] <scott-work> heh, i'm at work, rlameiro, using windows, i'll get that when I get home
[18:29] <rlameiro> https://files.one.ubuntu.com/XG8iE4f-SPy04uiFb9EFPw
[18:29] <rlameiro> get this one
[18:29] <rlameiro> pdf
[18:29] <rlameiro> the other is a inkscape SVG
[18:30] <rlameiro> where can i put this to the other to see?
[18:30] <rlameiro> and comment?
[18:30] <rlameiro> is it there some blueprints on ubuntustudio controls?
[18:32] <scott-work> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls
[18:32] <scott-work> but posting to the -dev mail list is still a really good idea to make people informed about it, they will not check here without nofitication
[18:33] <rlameiro> ok
[18:37] <scott-work> rlameiro: this page has a good guide for UI under 1)    https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-controls/+spec/intrepid-ui-redesign
[18:38] <scott-work> maybe divide the UI for new users and experienced/advanced users (even just visually and not with an 'advanced' button that shows more options)
[18:38] <scott-work> but if we had a list of features or options then we could see about categorizing them
[18:39] <rlameiro> the idea is to have a list of general settings on the left and then the real setting on the right
[18:39] <rlameiro> it coiuld be implemented on the right
[18:39] <rlameiro> maybe like the VLC settingss
[18:52] <rlameiro> mail sended to the mailing list
[18:52] <rlameiro> this is maybe a mater to the dev mailing listvonly isnt it?
[18:52] <rlameiro> if not i can post it also to the user list
[18:53] <scott-work> i'd suggest we hit the -dev group first for sanity then maybe later send a prototype to the -user list for suggestions maybe
[18:55] <rlameiro> ok
[21:31] <rexium> hey troy_s
[21:31] <troy_s> Greets rexium
[21:31] <troy_s> Sup?
[21:32] <rexium> Lots, I'm going to graduate in June :)
[21:32] <rexium> troy_s: what's new with you?
[21:32] <troy_s> rexium: Congrats on the graduation!
[21:32] <troy_s> rexium: I have a photoshoot for ex-Skinny Puppy types.
[21:33]  * rexium googles Skinny Puppy
[21:33] <troy_s> rexium: C'mon.
[21:33] <troy_s> rexium: If you know NIN you should know Skinny Puppy
[21:33] <rexium> troy_s: lol, you think too highly of me
[21:33] <rexium> I'll check them out
[21:34] <rexium> but that's really cool
[21:35] <rexium> troy_s: i've been super out of touch with ubuntu studio, have you been involved at all?
[21:35] <troy_s> rexium: Never really been involved with studio.
[21:46] <rexium> troy_s: ever want to take on art direction ;)
[21:50] <troy_s> rexium: It's a helluva lot of work.
[21:51] <troy_s> rexium: And my time has been horrible.
[21:51] <rexium> troy_s: good busy I hope :)
[21:51] <troy_s> rexium: Yes and no.
[22:04] <scott-work> troy_s: wow, i used to listen to skinny puppy in '86 or '87
[22:05] <scott-work> vivasect or something like that was the album
[22:08] <scott-work> troy_s: i'm still working my way through the index you suggested, it's bloody amazing, it all makes sense but it's stuff that i've never been concious of before
[22:08] <troy_s> scott-work: Glad to hear it.
[22:09] <troy_s> scott-work: And yes... Skinny Puppy's roots go deep. The band I am shooting is Willhelm's offshoot with ties to Chemlab / Ministry / etc.
[22:10] <troy_s> scott-work: So you finding JK's index good reading? Have you started in on Visual Literacy yet? The latter is likely right what you were looking for and the exercises are very interesting.
[22:14] <scott-work> troy_s: i've look at it a bit, poked into different parts, it's equally fascinating to "cheat" and look at other people's answers (I have the edition with other's work in it apparently)
[22:15] <troy_s> scott-work: I think the point that is missed is that it is really entirely about language. 1) Art and design is language 2) Art and design is ever shifting. The language changes depending on context / culture etc. Just as we didn't have LOL or Google a few years ago, so too it is with A&D.
[22:16] <troy_s> scott-work: So when the chumps in our culture say things like "everyone" and such it is really unfortunate. Rather like cooking food for everyone or writing a book or even just saying 'hello'. The simplicity of the desire is met with the complexity of reality.
[22:16] <scott-work> troy_s: hmm, that put's a different perspective on what i'm reading, but it's too much for me at this point - like asking a blind man what colors he sees at his first glimpse at the world
[22:17] <scott-work> troy_s: i'll have to finish reading then go back and review it with that in mind, right now I'm just understand and trying to appreciate the mundane aspects of it
[22:17] <scott-work> i'm an a&d challenged , heh
[22:21] <scott-work> troy_s:  here's something I created for something I'm working on        http://imagebin.org/90787
[22:23] <scott-work> troy_s: I meant the ubuntu studio symbol in the upper right
[22:24] <troy_s> scott-work: If there were one overarching thing that I could say about Ubuntu it (not not relevant) would be to avoid the typeface at all costs. It always has been one of the most homebrew nasty things out there. Nearly _any_ choice other than it would elevate work immediately.
[22:24] <troy_s> scott-work: Utterly frightening how pervasive it ended up.
[22:25] <scott-work> troy_s: lol, i can do that!  it's also my first foray into Inkscape which is bleeding awesome!  I've dropped GIMP now.
[23:03] <troy_s> rexium: Check out my LinkedIn connects.
[23:03] <troy_s> rexium: You will laugh.