NCommandereggonlea: ping?00:06
NCommandereggonlea: if your around, I'd like to poke your brain on Dove stuff00:07
crimsundoes anything else need to be done for bug 528524? I'm pretty short on time, and it's pretty clear that it isn't a PA bug or a linux bug.00:07
ubot4Launchpad bug 528524 in speex (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 5 other projects) "Sound not working in all apps on dove (affects: 3)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52852400:07
NCommandercrimsun: it still doesn't work with that change, that just fixes the issue Li Li brought up00:08
crimsunNCommander: *what* doesn't work?00:08
NCommandercrimsun: audio through pulse00:08
NCommanderor at lesat, I couldn't get it to work00:08
crimsunwhat are your test cases, or are you saying that generally audio just doesn't work through PA?00:09
NCommanderthats exactly what I'm saying00:09
crimsun...so, the latteR?00:10
NCommandercrimsun: I haven't played a lot with it today, GrueMaster knows more about this than I do00:10
NCommandercrimsun: oh, wow, I'm braindead >.>;00:10
* NCommander goes to grab dinner00:11
* NCommander returns01:30
=== bjf is now known as bjf-afk
eggonleaNCommander: yes02:24
NCommandereggonlea: mind if I PM you?02:25
eggonleaNCommander: I'm updating all components on new Lucid with the latest kernel.02:25
eggonleaNCommander: welcome~ :P02:26
NCommandereggonlea: handy, I'd like to work with you on determining if the reason I can't get the codecs to work is just me being infamiliar with gstreamer02:26
eggonleaNCommander: which kernel are you using? I think Eric is merging the new LSP today.02:26
NCommandereggonlea: archive latest, but I also tried the BSP on the wiki02:27
eggonleaNCommander: OK, please feel free to let me know if I can do anything.02:27
NCommandereggonlea: I'd like to see if we can get accelerated playback to work, also, if possible, I'd like to get the EXA modules02:28
eggonleaI'll upload them today02:30
GrueMastercrimsun: I updated bug 528524 with more information.  The speex patch only enables armv7 stuff, which wasn't the issue.  The test that I ran was speaker-test -c 2 -t pink -f 44100 -r 44100.  Adding the user to the pulse group, deleting ~/.pulse/* , or killing pulseaudio altogether are the only ways for this command to work (even with the speex fix).04:21
ubot4Launchpad bug 528524 in speex (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 5 other projects) "Sound not working in all apps on dove (affects: 3)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52852404:21
ericm_GrueMaster, so I really suspect it's a permission issue04:47
DanaGGrueMaster: is the thing headless?05:14
DanaGIf so, consolekit / policykit may be blocking access to the audio device.05:14
DanaGrcn-ee: did you check out the suspend/resume stuff?05:15
=== JaMa|Zzzz is now known as JaMa
GrueMasterDanaG: No, it isn't headless.06:59
DanaGhmm, are policykit and consolekit installed?06:59
DanaGIf not, try installing them.07:00
samuel_SayagIs there doc about installing xfce on Beagle ?07:03
rsalvetinosse1: was finally able to test the user mode emulation here with the lucid rootfs07:18
rsalvetinosse1: please check at the end of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch07:19
rsalvetinosse1: in case you're running ubuntu, you just need to install qemu-arm-static, and the package will register itself at the binfmt07:20
rsalvetiif you're not using ubuntu, just make sure you have the latest qemu-arm-static binary at your system and register it at your binfmt07:20
rsalvetito register it, run # echo ':qemu-arm-static:M::\x7fELF\x01\x01\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x02\x00\x28\x00:\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\x00\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xff\xfe\xff\xff\xff:/usr/bin/qemu-arm-static:' > /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/register07:21
rsalvetinosse1: then once you're inside the chroot environment, you can use it to build and test your arm packages/applications07:22
rsalvetitime to get some sleep :-)07:23
NCommanderGrueMaster: using pavucontrol, I was able to move the audio output on Pulse07:31
GrueMasterDo you already have the changes in /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/?07:35
GrueMasterBecause pavucontrol and sound-applet->preferences have the exact same layout.07:36
GrueMasterNCommander: ^^^07:36
NCommanderGrueMaster: if they were pushed in archivem, then yes07:39
GrueMasterThen that's how you can get pavucontrol to work.  Both it and gnome-sound-applet are front ends to pulseaudio.  You can even use pacmd to change the settings.07:40
NCommanderGrueMaster: oh, ok07:40
* NCommander feels dense07:40
GrueMasterGet some sleep.  It helps.07:41
NCommanderGrueMaster: not tired :-/07:46
NCommandereggonlea: ping?07:46
nosse1Good morning everyone08:15
eggonleaNCommander: ack. You should go to bed indeed.08:42
NCommandereggonlea: probably, but your still here so :-)08:44
eggonleaHey, I'm in GMT+8 but you NOT!08:46
ericm_eggonlea, NCommander is a superman08:53
eggonleaericm_, Agree! any luck on the new kernel?08:55
ericm_eggonlea, I've filed a difference to you, you check and let me know if everything is OK before I merge08:55
eggonleaericm_, checking...08:58
eggonleaericm, It's fine. Let's move on. :)09:29
samuel_SayagI can't make the keyboard work with  Karmic installation09:37
=== hrw|gone is now known as hrw
kapuhi morning10:09
hrwrsalveti: u8500? where you are working?10:11
nosse1What's the best approach for stracing upstart? Because upstart needs to be process no. 1, right?10:12
hrwnosse1: "init=strace upstart"?10:16
nosse1hrw: No, this doesn't work as upstart is not started as process #110:49
nosse1Perhaps a better scheme would be to make upstart start strace, which attaches itself to init10:50
hrwor that10:52
Stskeepsedit preinit instead10:54
Stskeepser, nm10:54
nosse1Yeah, I'm trying to figure out which script is initally called by init10:55
=== jamie is now known as JamieBennett
nosse1How _do_ I debug init? My efforts seems to be useless...11:47
nosse1Basically the problem is the fact that init has to be process num 1. Its behaviour is altered if not11:50
hrwnosse1: in first start script attach strace to init11:52
nosse1What is the first start script? I mean init read all scrits in /etc/init and then executes the ones with "start on startup". How to ensure my script comes first?11:57
hrwI use sysvinit still ;(11:58
=== jamie is now known as Guest74361
asacndechesne: git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-lucid13:36
hrwasac: how good ti-omap branch of ubuntu-lucid kernel works?13:40
asachrw: was told it boots, but no graphics output (e.g. just serial)13:41
asacalso it has a broken AUFS so it cannot run our liveimages13:41
amitkhrw: serial console on babbage for now, hopefully DSS2 by next week.13:45
hrwamitk: s/beagle/beagleboard13:47
hrwI remember 'beagle' PDA13:47
nosse1The ti-omap branch in the ubuntu kernel, which targets are they for?13:47
amitknosse1: *all* OMAP3 boards for a small definition of *all* :)13:49
amitkall = boards we have access to - beagleboard, n90013:50
nosse1I'm working on getting the AM3517 up and running, so I was curious how much I can use from the ti-omap brancj13:50
amitkI'm going to enable all boards that compile in the 2.6.33 mainline tree13:50
amitkbut I am not going to verify that each peripheral on all these boards works13:51
nosse1I have to admit it really heavy when you dont have an initial system to start from :(13:51
ndechesneasac: thanks, this is working. you guys should enable the option in gitweb so that it displays the link in the project summary ;-)13:51
nosse1amitk: I thought each SoC type have to have its own kernel config. So the common factor between the beagleboard and the n900 is the OMAP3xxx?13:54
amitknosse1: OMAP code is structured so that multiple boards can boot off a single kernel (assuming the right bootloader on each board)13:55
amitkit's more x86-like, in that sense with runtime detection of SoC features13:55
nosse1amitk: The board is one thing to compile for, another thing is the internal features/peripherals inside the SoC13:56
nosse1I'm wondering how different the OMAP3 is from the AM3517 (which is an industrial spinoff from the OMAP series)13:56
amitknosse1: I made a statement about that earlier: 15:50 < amitk> I'm going to enable all boards that compile in the 2.6.33 mainline tree13:57
amitk15:51 < amitk> but I am not going to verify that each peripheral on all these boards works13:57
amitknosse1: the core SoC portions should work for all boards. But specifics like a particular display, gpio-connected peripheral, etc. might not work since I don't have HW nor time to verify it on all these boards.13:58
amitkbut I'll accept reasonable patches that are already upstream.13:58
nosse1OK, let me take it back three steps. We are developing a product based on the TI AM3517 and now I'm trying to bringup the AM3517-EVM.13:58
nosse1We are evaluating to use Ubuntu Lucid in this product, however, I have spent significant hours getting Ubuntu to boot on target13:59
nosse1I get it to boot, but it fails during upstart. What, why and where of this failure is unknown14:01
nosse1I suspect the kernel (since this is cross compiled), so I'd like to make a native ubuntu kernel from the TI kernel branch. However this is also not as easy as it looks14:02
nosse1I.e. how do you compile a native kernel when you dont have a native system to run on...14:03
amitknosse1: I've already enabled AM3517 EVM board in the kernel as you've already realised. The rest is WIP and I'm sure things will get fixed if you file bugs or report them to us14:03
amitk(otherwise the kernel probably wouldn't boot on your system)14:04
amitk    *** OMAP Board Type ***                                                          │ │14:05
nosse1We had some discussion yesterday that lucid wont boot without initrd image14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3 BEAGLE board                                                               │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3 LDP board                                                                  │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] Gumstix Overo board                                                              │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP 3530 EVM board                                                              │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3517/ AM3517 EVM board                                                       │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3 Pandora                                                                    │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3 Touch Book                                                                 │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP 3430 SDP board                                                              │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] Nokia RX-51 board                                                                │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3 Zoom2 board                                                                │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3630 Zoom3 board                                                             │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [ ] CompuLab CM-T35 module                                                           │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] IGEP0020                                                                         │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3630 SDP board                                                               │ │14:05
amitk  │ │               [*] OMAP3 debugging peripherals14:05
hrwamitk: resulting kernel is not granted to boot and work on all of them14:05
amitklist of boards compiled-in ^^^^^^^^^614:05
amitknosse1: we won't *support* that configuration, but surely it will boot if you make it :)14:06
nosse1I'll happily test it :D14:06
nosse1Is the support enabled in the package "linux-image-2.6.33-500-omap" from the lucid repo? Is that it?14:06
amitkhrw: if you have the right bootloaders for each board, why not?14:07
amitkhrw: we can't provide bootloaders for them all though14:07
hrwamitk: I discussed that with few people from OE which use omap3 - some combinations do not boot14:08
hrwbut it was 2.6.29 mostly so things should improve14:08
nosse1This means that TI are diciplined that the internal resources/registers/peripherals are placed at the same address for all their SoCs14:10
amitkhrw: lots of work has gone in since 2.6.29 to get multiple boards and multiple SoCs (omap2/3/4) boot from a single kernel.14:10
amitknosse1: that and there is runtime detection of features.14:11
nosse1How do you detect the board?14:11
amitkmach id14:11
amitkpassed by bootloader14:12
nosse1Ah. So when we mfg our own HW product, we need to assign a new mach id14:12
hrwnosse1: new machine id is simple to get14:12
amitknosse1: right, new board, new mach id, less headaches for all :)14:13
hrwnosse1: http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/?action=new14:13
hrwhttp://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/machines/ gives list14:14
nosse1Where and who assigns these? And do you happen to have an URL to the location in the kernel where this mach id is checked?14:14
nosse1*checking list*14:15
nosse1Interesting... The AM3517 is not found in the list14:17
nosse1There's one OMAP3517EVM, but I have no idea if the OMAP3517 and AM3517 are compatible14:18
amitknosse1: they are, look at the board config I pasted above14:18
nosse1Yes, and it's not the same SoC14:18
amitkruntime detection to turn of features that are not present...14:19
hrwTI renamed boards some time ago14:20
nosse1OK, so theres no OMAP3517 in production (replaced by/renamed to AM3517)14:20
hrwnosse1: no omap3517evm - omap3517 is cpu name14:21
nosse1OK. The CPU I'm sitting next to is called AM3517 and no OMAP in its name. Nor in the docs from TI14:22
nosse1How do I send the mach ID to the kernel "mach=2200" ?14:22
nosse1How should the bootloader tell the kernel which board/machine its on?14:36
hrwnosse1: arm.linux.org.uk has docs14:37
nosse1hrw: thanks14:37
nosse1ok, the AM3517-EVM is not supported from the omap kernel in lucid AFAICS14:50
nosse1"Error: unrecognized/unsupported machine ID (r1 = 0x80e6189c)."14:50
nosse1Hmm... The machine ID reported by the kernel has far more information than what is expected: "00000898OMAP3517/AM3517 EVM"14:52
nosse1What bootloaders are you guys running on your OMAP targets? I'm using u-boot as delivered out-of-box by TI14:54
amitknosse1: I'd be willing to take patches if you find out the root cause.14:54
amitkwe use u-boot14:54
hrwcurrently I do not have development arm device without u-boot14:54
nosse1AM3517 should be supported (it's in the list). It's the machine ID which isn't properly/correctly set by u-boot14:55
hrwsimple patch help14:55
nosse1of kernel or of u-boot?14:55
hrwhttp://cgit.openembedded.org/cgit.cgi/openembedded/tree/recipes/linux/linux-2.6.29/ep93xx/edb9301-fix-machine-id.patch is example14:56
nosse1*ush* I'd hoped u-boot.... :(  How do you guys rebuild the kernel without a running target system. qemu?14:57
nosse1(sorry, I'm not ungrateful. Thanks!)14:58
hrwnosse1: crosscompilation über alles15:02
nosse1hrw, danke15:03
hrwUSBHDD is usually bigger then device which I would connect it to15:03
hrwand mmc cards are too slow15:03
nosse1hrw, I don't think its the machine id list which needs patching. Since the reported machine id from the kernel/u-boot is 0x80e618cc it could indicate that the machine is set another way in the u-boot I have15:07
nosse1I should expect a 0x0000089815:07
hrwnosse1: check?15:07
nosse1I'll check the sources of u-boot15:07
nosse1Because the TI's own kernel branch is capable of detecting the machine from this version of u-boot15:08
nosse1Is it probable that the way the machine ID is transferred from BL to kernel has changed?15:09
amitkwhat version is the TI kernel?15:09
amitkI'd check for changes in arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-am3517evm.c between TI and Lucid15:12
loolNCommander, asac: Hey can you folks please take care of the diff which Sarvatt sent to fix -dove xorg compilation with Xorg 1.7?  :-)   See http://sarvatt.com/downloads/patches/xserver-xorg-video-dove.diff15:12
loolSarvatt: [ Would be great if you could clarify whether it's expected to still build with <= 1.6 to NCommander and asac ]15:13
Sarvattlool: NCommander responded yesterday saying he got a new code drop that fixed it already so it wasn't needed :D15:13
loolSarvatt: Oh good news; I hope he could share it with you already15:15
nosse1Ah. There's lots of changes (additions) in the arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-am3517evm.c from the lucid source to the TI source.15:15
loolSarvatt: It would be great to check we're not missing anything from your diff15:15
Sarvattnot yet unfortunately, but I'll check it out. I just backported all of the fbdev changes since it was forked off15:18
ndechesneamitk: was looking at the enforce script in the kernel tree, looks like you don't enforce for ARM_THUMB support. I think it should be there. it took us a while to realize it was missing in our kernel ;-)15:37
asacndechesne: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-live/15:41
nosse1Yeah!  I finally god my AM3517 to boot the ubuntu lucid kernel!15:44
nosse1Unfortunately the kernel crashes immideately with a stack dump :(15:45
Martynthat's not exactly a boot :)15:45
rsalvetihahah :-)15:45
asacndechesne: ubumirror15:45
MartynI now have both the tegra2 and (undisclosed platform) purring away nicely15:46
ndechesneasac: thanks15:46
loolndechesne: ubumirror15:46
MartynI have to say that >1.1GHz and multi-core makes a huge difference.. but what really causes these chips to rock is the massive amount of L2 cache15:46
amitkndechesne: good point! I guess we should have two versions of the script - enfore-platform and enfore-arm15:47
amitkndechesne: we've only used it for platform-wide config options until now15:47
nosse1rsalveti: Morning15:48
rsalvetinosse1: still fighting with upstart? or a different kernel?15:49
Martynnosse1 : What's causing the stack dump?15:49
ndechesneamitk: ok, i didn't know that. i think and -arm would be good to have then, and perhaps even arm sub arch as well...15:49
amitkndechesne: yeah, will talk it over and see the best way to implement it15:49
* Martyn grumbles .. I'm only -one- package away from being able to build hiphop on ARM15:50
nosse1rsalveti: I've discovered that the lucid kernel package linux-2.6.33-500-omap has support for the AM3517, so I have tried that one15:50
Martynthey frigging decided to use Intel tbb .. and it doesn't have ARM support, libtbb2 doesn't build on arm15:50
nosse1Martyn: [   17.504730] Failed to add route LOUT->Line Out15:50
nosse1[   17.509277] Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 0000000415:50
Martynnosse1 : Okay, so it's the sound subsystem that's failing.   Do you need audio?15:51
nosse1No not to bring up my system15:51
Martynokay, because that's hiding in platform_device.h15:52
rsalvetinosse1: oh, got it :-)15:52
Martynjust disable audio in the kernel config, recompile .. it will at least get you past that nonsense15:52
MartynBRB -- need to reboot this system to try out a new kernel15:53
nosse1Martyn: Ok, thats coming back to a dilemma I've had recently: How do I recompile the kernel?15:53
Martyn( and since it's the hypervisor kernel I'm changing .. -sigh-15:53
MartynDon't you hate it when Dom0 needs to be restarted?15:53
rsalvetinosse1: you can cross-compile it or compile it at a native environment15:53
rsalvetinosse1: at a native environment you can use qemu user mode emulation, but takes time15:53
nosse1rsalveti: Yes, your help in that respect works like a charm15:54
rsalvetiif you have access to emulated environment, just get the kernel source and build it normally15:54
rsalvetiyou can even use the deb src to do that15:55
nosse1How do I alter the config? Because deb/ubuntu has its own mechanism for setting .config, right?15:56
rsalvetinosse1: hm, need to check for lucid, as I never built the lucid kernel by hand15:59
rsalvetinosse1: but you can check the package rules15:59
rsalvetilet me check the source15:59
nosse1Thats a general question I've had for some time: How do I build kernel for Ubuntu? Or more precisely, what do I need to add to the kerneltree for it to build for ubuntu16:04
nosse1Add the debian* directories into the source tree, right?16:05
loolnosse1: There are multiple ways16:06
loolnosse1: Just building the ubuntu source with ubuntu config and outputting zImage or uImage doesn't need any packaging stuff16:06
loolnosse1: If you want .debs, you can either use Debian's kernel-package approach which will not create the same stuff we do, but has more documentation, or you can copy our debian/ and modify it to build what you want; see kernel.ubuntu.com for the latter approach16:07
prpplagueanyone else experience weird problems with Xorg and HAL when configuring items like touchscreens?16:08
nosse1lool: Thanks. How do I get the kernel config from a kernel source (from ubuntu source)? It's obviously not stored in .config16:09
=== nosse1 is now known as nosse1_noob
loolnosse1_noob: It's in debian.nameoftree/config16:17
loolnosse1_noob: split into ubuntu common, architecture common, and flavour specific files16:17
loolJust cat them together16:17
loolnosse1_noob: Another efficient way is to get it from a binary kernel .deb16:17
loolnosse1_noob: See "debian/rules updateconfigs" doc on the kernel wiki16:18
armin76lool: i have better hardware than you! :P16:21
prpplaguearmin76: what hardware do you have?16:23
armin76prpplague: tegra2 :)16:26
prpplaguearmin76: ahh16:27
hrwarmin76: how is tegra2 when it comes to linux support?16:31
armin76hrw: i have it working with no problems...16:31
armin76the only problems i have are:16:31
armin76-no wifi/bt driver16:31
armin76-sound doesn't work16:32
hrwarmin76: but do they publish patches or NDA only?16:32
armin76-obviusly no Xorg driver16:32
armin76hrw: patches for what?16:32
armin76for the kernel? they have a public git16:32
hrwas this is nvidia I rather supposed 'give us all your body parts for patches' type of license16:33
prpplaguearmin76: what do you like/dislike about the physcial board's features and layout?16:33
armin76prpplague: i dislike missing sata :)16:34
armin76the cpu doesn't have neon either16:34
armin76but apart from that, its really complete16:34
armin76takes 9 mins to build binutils vs 30m on the efika mx(imx515 800mhz)16:35
Martynnosse1 : Did you get an answer to your cross-compilation question?16:50
prpplaguearmin76: ahh16:51
prpplaguearmin76: what about the overall layout of the board? makes it easy to work with on desktop? and/or interface to?16:51
prpplaguearmin76: you doing any custom hardware with it?16:51
loolrobclark: http://people.canonical.com/~lool/loop-mnt-do16:54
armin76prpplague: hrm...yes, and no, not doing any custom hardware with it, i'm a distro dev, not hw dev :)16:56
nosse1_noobMartyn: yes, thank you. I'm compiling semi-natively using the qemu chroot environment right now. Takes a while!16:57
MartynYeah, cross-compiling is faster by far16:58
MartynI use a dual cpu, quad core nehalem system w/ hyperthreading enabled16:58
Martyn16 cores to distribute the compile means I generally get kernels in < 2min16:59
Martyn(35 seconds being the record for a full make clean uImage modules modules_install16:59
nosse1_noob*bah* I'm compiling on Dell laptop (Core2Duo @3.06G)17:00
=== JaMa is now known as JaMa|Away
Martynthat means you can at least do make -j417:00
Martynand that will speed things up anyway17:00
armin76Martyn: thats not the ubuntu way! :P17:01
hrwarmin76: kernel in 2 or 20 minutes? this makes difference17:02
nosse1_noobDoes the HT scale into "make -j2"? I thought it didnt. That you could only specify the number of cores, not logical HT's?17:02
Martynnosse : -j only specifies the number of jobs...17:02
Martynas it turns out, yes .. compilation is a -great- test of hyperthreading17:03
MartynI get a very effective compile at -j1617:03
Martyn(with eight cores)17:03
Martynif I was doing floating point.. then HT would totally not help17:03
nosse1_noobIs there significant difference in the timing of -j16 and -j8 ?17:04
nosse1_noobBecause that would IMHO be profiling how well the HT works17:04
MartynYep .. almost 1/3 the compile time :)17:05
prpplaguearmin76: thanks for the info17:05
nosse1_noobImpressive. I would it expect it to scale more or less linearly17:06
armin76prpplague: for example i don't think a beagle is nice to work with on the desktop, i don't have one, but thats the feel it gives to me, too small...17:06
prpplaguearmin76: yea17:06
prpplaguearmin76: the tegra2 have any desktop case available?17:06
armin76prpplague: nope17:07
Martynbut it's easy enough to cobble together a case17:07
Martynmind you, the board is SIX INCHES on a side :)17:07
prpplaguearmin76: does having a generic case of some type add anything to getting a dev board for you?17:07
Martynso it's not like putting it in a case would be very smart :)17:07
prpplagueMartyn: yea you can get some generic pactec or okwusa abs plastic cases17:08
prpplaguei know alot of software dev folks like to have boards in a case of sometype17:08
armin76prpplague: i'd like to, yes17:08
zumbiarmin76: yab? -- yet another board? -- mami is going to kick you out from home :-P17:11
prpplaguearmin76: not specifically targeted towards the tegra2 , but something like this http://www.okwusa.com/products/okw/interface-terminal.htm  , would that interest you ?17:11
zumbiprpplague: is the case coming with some processing unit?17:13
prpplaguezumbi: yea17:14
zumbiwhich one?17:15
prpplaguejust discussion ATM17:15
armin76prpplague: i guess17:16
prpplaguearmin76: there are a number of other cases on the okwusa.com site, if you see one that catches your eye, i'd be curious17:17
armin76prpplague: the one with aluminium looks nice :)17:18
prpplaguearmin76: which one is that?17:20
armin76prpplague: http://www.okwusa.com/products/okw/interface-terminal/zoom/zB4146106.jpg17:21
prpplaguearmin76: ahh17:22
armin76and i'd prefer a different color instead of white :)17:22
* Martyn really doesn't bother with cases17:25
MartynI just get a piece of wood (or ABS plastic) as a base, put stands w/ standoffs, and that's pretty much that17:26
prpplaguearmin76: hehe, you can get, navy blue, fire engine red, explosive yellow, and hot pink17:27
prpplagueMartyn: yea that is pretty common17:27
MartynI do it so the dev boards won't get lost17:28
prpplaguehehe indeed17:29
prpplagueMartyn: i like to use laminated shelf boards, basically "extra shelf" boards you can buy at most hardware stores17:30
MartynThey are -just- heavy enough that I don't use them17:31
MartynGenerally I either use 5mm (1/4") plywood, or 1/4" ABS cut to size17:31
prpplagueMartyn: i like the shelves since i have on the bookshelf units that they go in, that way when i don't need the board, i simply put it in the bookshelv17:32
MartynHEH!  cute :)17:33
prpplagueMartyn: i notice you are in the #arduino channel17:35
prpplagueMartyn: you done anything with ubuntu on the beagleboard?17:36
=== nosse1_noob is now known as nosse1
hrwMartyn: 6.7" size is better as this is 17cm == mini-itx factor so very easy to get a case (but not necessary cheap)17:49
Martynprpplague : Yeah, I finished a karmic port .. then moved on to bigger fish18:08
Martynprpplague : The beagle is just too slow and clunky compared to the other boards here at work .. it kind of sits in the corner18:08
hrwprpplague: can you share pictures of your 'unused devboards bookshelf'?18:09
davillaanyone ever build arm-2009q1 from codesourcery native on ubuntu 9.04 ?18:29
davillanative on arm that is.18:30
nosse1Is there any difference between gcc compiled for ubuntu and the codesourcery (arm-none-linux-gnueabi) when compiling the kernel?18:32
armin76davilla: may want to ask on #efika about that kind of experiments, not sure if they are using ubuntu or not, though...18:32
hrwnosse1: you mean vanilla gcc/binutils/glibc contra CSL one?18:33
armin76i think they do,  i may be wrong18:33
davillathx, armin7618:33
nosse1hrw, I'm trying to cross build the kernel and for that I'm using the CSL version18:34
nosse1I remember that theres a kernel option which is to enable the EABI -- I don't know what the alternative is18:34
armin76nosse1: you don't have crosscompilers on ubuntu afaik18:34
armin76nosse1: the alternative is OABI :)18:34
Martynarmin76 : Yes there are .. just not for ARM :)18:35
Martynavr-gcc is an example ...18:35
Martynnosse1 : For a standard EABI compiler, use the toolchain provided by CodeSourcery18:35
hrwMartyn: or build own18:35
MartynIt has the latest vfp hard float support, and is an optimized toolchain.   the G++ toolchain is free18:35
nosse1I need to recompile the kernel (Ubuntu Lucid), and doing it from qemu chroot takes *ages*18:36
nosse1I hoped I could cross compile it using the CSL one18:36
Martynhrw : crosstool-ng is broken for EABI right now .. there are checkins coming from CodeSourcery to fix it, but for the moment it's easier to grab their precompiled toolchain18:36
armin76Martyn: or use gentoo! :)18:36
hrwMartyn: I usually do 'bitbake meta-toolchain' and have toolchain built18:36
* armin76 does crossdev $CHOST18:37
hrwbut thats due to my OE experience18:37
Martynhrw : It's the source for GCC that's broken (4.4) .. not the crosstools18:37
nosse1Ah, so you're familiar with OE18:37
MartynThen again, I'm more sensitive to toolchain breakage at the moment, since i'm quite literally on the bleeding edge of ARM tech18:38
nosse1hrw, we are trying to decide if we are going to use OE or Debian for our next product18:38
hrwnosse1: yep, 6 years of using18:38
armin76nosse1: ubuntu!18:38
nosse1hrw, as you probably have heard from my complaining, I haven't had an easy introduction to ubuntu arm :)18:38
hrwnosse1: OE gives you automation of building18:38
hrwDebian/Ubuntu gives you bigger repository of software but also bigger storage requirements18:39
armin76hrw: what about gentoo!18:39
hrwmy first LinuxPDA (Zaurus SL-5500) had 14.4MB for rootfs and we got X11 in it with pim and settings stuff (wifi/bt covered)18:40
hrwarmin76: never used18:40
hrwarmin76: as each gentoo build is different from other I prefer to not support it18:40
nosse1we have a total NAND flash of 1G, so ubuntu lucid is fine18:40
Martynarmin76 : gentoo on ARM is a huge PAIN IN THE BUTT18:40
hrwnosse1: one big ubifs on it?18:41
Martynbuild-from-source is not the best way to get customers happy.   gentoo is for people who are system performance fetishists :)18:41
nosse1hrw, something like that18:41
nosse1Martyn, in our product everything behind the end-user application will be hidden. The customer will not know (or care) which distro is running in the scenes18:42
hrwMartyn: if you give customers rootfs + repository of packages they will not see that18:42
armin76hrw: isn't the same with OE?18:43
Martynhrw : The way gentoo works, a repository of packages = a repository of source packages.  They get compiled every time18:43
Martynit's not like .ipk's, .deb's, or .rpm's18:43
nosse1But the customer will need upgrades and security fixes, and apt-get fixes that in a very elegant way!18:43
Martynone of gentoo's base requirements is a full toolchain /must/ exist on the target system18:43
nosse1So my personal choice (from experience with desktop Ubuntu) is to use Ubuntu on this target18:43
rsalvetinosse1: I think this is something that ubuntu behaves better, with oe you'll need to build the repository/rootfs image and update it with your custom method18:44
hrwbb in few18:44
nosse1rsalveti, I agree. But my boss wont let me spend countless hours on this unless I am capable of getting my AM3517 up and running18:45
rsalvetinosse1: haha, sure, but it seems that your bigger problem now is that your kernel is not booting fine yet18:46
rsalvetiand this is something that doesn't depends on which distro18:46
nosse1hehe, yes, true18:46
rsalvetinosse1: with oe you can rebuild the kernel easily because it's cross-compiled18:46
rsalvetiif you set up your cross-compile environment, you'll get the same speed, but can be a pain in the ass :-)18:47
rsalvetioe sets up the cross compiler for you easily18:47
MartynAs I was saying -- download CodeSourcery G++ lite, install it on your favorite multi-core X86 system, and use that18:47
Martynset ARCH=arm18:47
Martynset CROSS_COMPILE=(wherever you installed CodeSourcery)/bin/arm-eabi-none-18:48
rsalvetiyeah, I think this will be enough for you, until you get the kernel booting fine18:48
Martynand poof .. you're off to the races18:48
nosse1Martyn, that's what I've done18:48
Martyn(assuming you want an eabi toolchain)18:48
nosse1Now it's on me: I'm trying to rebuild the kernel. Just need to shave off some config18:48
MartynI'm compiling with a thumb2-ee toolchain now .. eabi, and a pain in the butt18:48
nosse1Martyn: I have the arm-none-linux-gnueabi- cross from CS. I can use that one, right?18:50
nosse1And I need to enable the EABI setting in the kernel config, as well18:50
armin76if you don't iirc ubuntu won't run on it18:51
nosse1Ah. Because I was uncertain if I should download the arm-none-eabi vs. the arm-none-linux-gnueabi18:54
Martynnosse1 : That's the one18:55
nosse1Martyn, sorry which? none-eabi or none-linux-gnueabi ?18:56
Martyngnueabi (it's the same)18:56
Martynit's just the triplet-name CodeSourcery chose when they created the toolchain18:56
nosse1Isn't it because they have libc bundeled along with it? (Which the kernel ignores anyway)18:57
nosse1I got this while compiling: "ERROR: "__aeabi_uldivmod" [sound/soc/codecs/snd-soc-wm8974.ko] undefined!"19:03
nosse1Now, I can disable the driver alltogether, but is this related to the CSL cross compiler?19:04
hrwnosse1: google should give answer - common problem it was19:04
nosse1hehe - sorry, you're right19:04
hrwnosse1: Debian gives you fixes and upgrades often faster then OE - amount of developers scales that19:05
prpplaguehrw: sorry i can't share a picture of the boards currently as most of them are covered under NDA19:06
nosse1hrw, you mean debian as in the family of debian based distros, or literally debian19:07
hrwnosse1: family19:07
prpplagueMartyn: i was curious about your beagleboard and arduino usage, since my trainer board for the beagle goes on sale this week19:07
nosse1hrw, because we are cpnsidering debian, but we want to have a distro targeted for ARMv7, which lucid does19:07
hrwprpplague: I was more interested of how they look as shelfs - boards can be blurred or even replaced by one color boxes19:08
Martynprpplague : We don't use the beagleboard for much19:08
Martynprpplague : It was just an early board we grabbed to evaluate the possibity of ARM as a server chip19:08
Martynprpplague : And I'm an avid AVR freak :)  I love teaching how to use them19:08
prpplagueMartyn: ahh, http://www.elinux.org/BeagleBoard_Trainer19:09
nosse1Martyn, I used to work in Atmel :D I'm very familiar with AVRs...19:09
MartynNICE board19:09
hrwhave a nice rest of day19:10
prpplaguehrw: you leaving?19:10
prpplaguehrw: i'll see if i find time this weekend to take a picture19:10
hrwprpplague: 20:10 here and I need to bath my kid19:10
prpplaguehrw: water hose works great19:11
hrwthen cartoon and put kid sleep etc19:11
hrwprpplague: ;D19:11
=== hrw is now known as hrw|gone
prpplaguehrw|gone: later bud19:11
prpplagueMartyn: been looking for someone who has experience with both beagle and avr to tinkering around with the trainer board19:15
prpplagueMartyn: i.e. write some howtos and such19:15
MartynOh ..19:18
MartynI don't have the time, honestly.19:18
MartynWork absorbs most of my time, and the new hackerspace (www.austinhackerspace.org) takes up the rest19:18
prpplagueMartyn: ahh dandy you are in austin19:19
Martynojn is near me too19:20
prpplagueMartyn: well if i donated a few trainer boards to your hackerspace...........19:20
Martynprpplague : They would be very gladly accepted19:24
Martynprpplague : And a nice addition to our board shelf19:24
Martynprpplague : Where are you located?19:24
prpplagueMartyn: you working with canonical?19:25
* prpplague goes to meeting19:26
nosse1Ush. Another kernel crash on target19:34
nosse1I wonder if it would be cheaper to ship you guys an eval board? :o19:35
rsalvetinosse1: what crash you had now?19:41
nosse1[   39.828002] Unhandled fault: external abort on non-linefetch (0x1028) at 0xfa07000419:42
nosse1[   39.835723] Internal error: : 1028 [#1]19:42
nosse1The strange thing is that this kernel works fine when I compile it for OE19:43
rsalvetinosse1: do you have the complete stack?19:46
rsalvetinosse1: you mean, the same kernel source?19:46
nosse1rsalveti, yes. I have the stack. Unless you want it, I want to retry another run here19:47
nosse1rsalveti, yes the same source19:48
rsalvetinosse1: does this happen while the kernel is booting or is when upstart is running and loading kernel modules?19:49
nosse1rsalveti: during kernel boot19:50
nosse1rsalveti: Since we talked yesterday, I discovered that there is a kernel package in lucid which should have support for AM3517. So I've decided to give that a go. And that's where I am19:51
rsalvetinosse1: oh, ok19:51
nosse1In a way, I'm shorter than yesterday, but I feel its more in the right direction19:51
rsalvetinosse1: yeah, if you already have support with lucid kernel, for sure it's better to keep it than the original ti one19:53
rsalvetibut now you need to fix it :-)19:53
hrw|gonefor few minutes19:57
hrw|gonenosse1: kernel built with OE works but with other toolchain fails?19:57
nosse1hrw|gone: Yes sort of. The kernel config is different as well, because the kernel config is "ubuntuized"19:58
rsalvetioh, that could be the reason19:59
hrw|gonenosse1: try ubuntu config with OE then19:59
rsalvetiyeah, if the toolchain is the same, you _need_ to get the same results :-)19:59
nosse1Now I got another error: "uncompression error" after building an image20:00
nosse1Strange. Because it was a make menuconfig; make thing which now fails20:01
nosse1Are you guys doing any debugging with JTAG for any of the kits?20:03
hrw|goneI am avoiding jtag as much as possible20:05
nosse1hrw|gone, are you familiar with Arago or Ångström?20:06
nosse1Because these are the OE spinoffs which TI endorse in their Linux SDKs20:06
nosse1AFAIK Arago is a TI maintained version of Ångström20:07
hrw|gonenosse1: Arago is OE spinoff. Angstrom is 'OE derived' distribution20:07
hrw|goneI am one of Angstrom creators20:07
nosse1Aha! I know it's a bit OT here: But why the OE derivation ?20:08
hrw|goneOE is used to build many distributions. some of them were finished some time ago (OpenZaurus, Familiar, OpenSimpad, OpenBeagle etc), some still live (Angstrom, SlugOS, minimal, micro)20:11
DanaGrcn-ee: you get a chance to try out suspend/resume?20:11
hrw|gonemicro is distribution made for really embedded devices - no package management on them, no /usr/ hierarchy etc20:12
nosse1hrw|gone: I know I asked the q earlier, but would you base a production product on Ubuntu? The alternative is the one endorsed by TI, which is Arago then.20:12
hrw|gonenosse1: angstrom is main distro in OE - supports most of devices, has support from few companies, few hw vendors uses it as a base for their BSP/SDK20:13
nosse1I need to make a presentation to the SW team soon20:13
hrw|gonenosse1: personally I would base on OE - easier to alter anything, select components and their versions then in debian and its derivatives20:14
nosse1Yes I begin to agree, when looking at the number of hours I've logged just for getting the Ubuntu to run on my target20:15
nosse1And the fact the Ubuntu compiles packages natively, scares some members of my team20:15
hrw|gonenosse1: with quad core x86-64 you can build rootfs from scratch in few hours using OE (including toolchain, native tools etc).20:16
hrw|gonesorry ubuntu guys20:16
nosse1Yes. Cross compiling everything means we can build using our build farm.20:17
hrw|goneat company for which I work now I have dual quadcore xeon as one buildmachine and quad i7 as second20:18
DanaGI did find it a bit funny that there's a powerpc cross-compiler in the repos, but no ARM cross-compiler.20:18
nosse1BUT: apt-get is one of the major reasons for considering deb/ubuntu. My knowledge about ipkg/opkg i limited, but I haven't heard exclusively good news about it20:18
hrw|gonenosse1: OE can generate deb packages but I do not know how well tested was using apt repositories20:21
hrw|gonenosse1: I know that rpm repositories worked but prefer to not touch it20:22
rsalvetihrw|gone: we tested that when we worked with mamona, and did work quite fine20:22
rsalvetiwe just weren't able to rebuild it from the package source20:22
nosse1I tried rpm when working with a Freescale iMX (with LTIB). I dont want to go back to that20:22
nosse1A package system is a must for us, since we have many individual teams working on different libraries/apps etc. It makes the actual release (building) process much simpler20:23
hrw|gonenosse1: I worked with few companies which used OE. Most of time it was team with developers which worked on apps/libraries + 1-3 people which also worked on OE integration (so they wrote recipes for soft written by first group and admin company buildbot which gives results for whole team)20:25
nosse1Yes, I don's say it isn't manageable during development. However, we also need to have a scheme for seamless upgrade by the end-user20:27
nosse1And apt-get delivers that in a good way IMHO20:28
=== hrw|gone is now known as hrw
nosse1So weird: Now I'm not able to even build a uImage which the kernel can boot from20:29
nosse1This is getting stranger and stranger20:29
hrwnosse1: still am3517?20:30
nosse1It hangs during uncompression.... Let's see: uboot load addr 0x82000000. Uimage loadaddr 0x80008000. Entry point 0x8000800020:31
hrwdecompressing linux......20:31
hrwand thats all?20:31
nosse1yes, unfortunately20:32
hrwcsl toolchain?20:32
hrwdrop it and use OE one?20:33
nosse1hrw, would it be too much for me to ask how? I mean urls to set it up, please20:34
nosse1hrw, I have arago, but they are using the CSL as wee20:34
hrwnosse1: OE wiki has 'Getting started' page, there are also some helping scripts20:34
hrwhttp://gitorious.org/angstrom/angstrom-setup-scripts for example20:35
nosse1I have a slight memory of something like "bitbake toolchain", right?20:36
hrw"bitbake meta-toolchain" gives you tarball with toolchain20:36
nosse1Should I pull OE or Å?20:37
hrwAngstrom is in mainline OE20:37
* prpplague returns from meeting20:40
hrwprpplague: wb20:40
prpplaguehrw: critter washed and to bed?20:41
hrwsort of20:41
nosse1hrw, so have I got it right if I say that Angstrom is a distro implementation which can be built by OE?20:42
prpplaguewell, this just in, jury has ruled in favor of Novell in the SCO case20:45
=== hrw is now known as hrw|gone
nosse1This is SO wierd. One kernel works (i.e. is willing to uncompress and start) while the other is not20:55
nosse1The ONLY difference between those two is the enabling of CONFIG_SND!20:56
nosse1..but now I'm giving up20:57
nosse1I'll see you guys tomorrow20:58
rsalvetithat's bad, luckly you'll get it running tomorrow20:58
=== JaMa|Away is now known as JaMa|Zz

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