| islington_ | can I get some critique on a logo? | 04:16 |
|---|---|---|
| === islington_ is now known as islington | ||
| === \vish is now known as vish | ||
| dashua | kwwii, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/535088 | 04:37 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 535088 in metacity "Metacity bug when using background for buttons (dup-of: 532224)" [Low,Triaged] | 04:37 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 532224 in compiz "[ambiance, radiance] no rounding when window has no maximise icon" [High,Confirmed] | 04:37 |
| dashua | When you get up :) | 04:38 |
| Icey-Net | 'Ello. | 09:13 |
| thorwil | hi Icey-Net. so this your work: http://icey-net.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-Concept-Design-FULL-158871634 | 10:16 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, yes. :P | 10:16 |
| thorwil | the glowing underline effect is interesting | 10:18 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, I like to call it the "indicator". | 10:18 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: i moved your page to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Concepts/UbuntuConcept as that's where it belongs | 10:24 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, Thanks. I couldn't quite understand how to do it. | 10:24 |
| knome | hey thorwil :) | 10:25 |
| thorwil | hi knome | 10:25 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, I almost gave up on putting it on the wiki like 2 times... It's ridiculously confusing. | 10:25 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: the More Actions menu has a Rename command | 10:25 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: yes, i wish we had something more structured, with wysiwyg editing | 10:26 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, the wysiwyg editor, while a nice additon, isn't quite what I had in mind. | 10:26 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, The whole process of putting something up there is... confusing. | 10:26 |
| Icey-Net | Unnecessarily confusing. | 10:26 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: like many mockups, yours has the problem that implementing it would require lots of changes all over the place. so far i never witnessed such a design convincing enough of the right people. you have to expect that nothing of this will ever happen | 10:27 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, Lots of changes all over the place is the main principle of this design. | 10:28 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, In order to advance, one must be adoptive to change. | 10:29 |
| thorwil | there's a professional design team at canonical. you have things happen in upstream projects, especially gnome. your dealing with rather small and close-knit circles of people who make things happen | 10:32 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, Come again? | 10:33 |
| thorwil | and then it's not at all clear what would and wouldn't be "advance" | 10:33 |
| thorwil | nevermind | 10:35 |
| knome | ;) | 10:35 |
| Icey-Net | I'm not sure if the hands of said professional designers are tied or something, but frankly, there are many, many things that could and should have changed way before... | 10:35 |
| Icey-Net | While Lucid Lynx does look a lot better than previous versions, it could and should still be better. | 10:36 |
| knome | Icey-Net, whatever the facts are, the design team will pretty much stay with what they have. | 10:36 |
| Icey-Net | So, whatever they make is right and everyone else is wrong, I take it? | 10:37 |
| knome | Icey-Net, also because the design they've worked on is signed off by sabdfl, and they can't make modifications withtout mark accepting those | 10:37 |
| knome | Icey-Net, on large scales yes, you can affect details though and the overall look in slower pace. | 10:37 |
| Icey-Net | I'm sorry, who is he? | 10:37 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: sabdfl = Mark Shuttleworth | 10:38 |
| knome | Icey-Net, mark shuttleworth. | 10:38 |
| Icey-Net | And he is? :P | 10:38 |
| Icey-Net | =D | 10:38 |
| knome | a millionaire and the ofunder of canonical and ubuntu. | 10:38 |
| knome | *founder | 10:38 |
| knome | the one who puts all the money in ubuntu. | 10:38 |
| knome | thus pretty much having all the power in ubuntu, if he wants to. | 10:39 |
| Icey-Net | So, basically, whatever he says is right and whatever anyone else thinks/says is outright wrong? | 10:39 |
| knome | umm, pretty much yes. but you can discuss about things. | 10:40 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: so if you want your work to have an impact, you have much better chances if you address single details. or if you look for other projects that do not have a payed design team | 10:40 |
| knome | thorwil, payed==paid | 10:40 |
| knome | ;) | 10:40 |
| knome | or work with a derivative. | 10:41 |
| Icey-Net | Why do I sometimes forget how companies actually work? :P | 10:41 |
| knome | where you have much more control over things yourself. | 10:41 |
| Icey-Net | Work with a what? | 10:41 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: far reaching changes on the desktop level would have to happen on the gnome level, anyway | 10:41 |
| knome | Icey-Net, derivative, like kubuntu, xubuntu or edubuntu. | 10:41 |
| Icey-Net | Meh... | 10:42 |
| thorwil | knome: arg, irregular irregularities falling out of my memory | 10:42 |
| knome | thorwil, Icey-Net: the changes for gnome itself must be proposed for the gnome team, not ubuntu | 10:42 |
| thorwil | that's what i was about | 10:43 |
| Icey-Net | And let me guess, they also have a 'professional' design team? | 10:43 |
| knome | thorwil, yup. got it ;) | 10:43 |
| knome | i don't know how much gnome employs people, but it's also not a structure where you can jump in and change everything just like that. besides, somebody has to implement those features and it takes time. | 10:44 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: not directly. there are a number of important people working on gnome associated with companies | 10:44 |
| Icey-Net | So, the best way to get this done is to get a group of volunteer programmers... Do it, spread it, if it's a great success, tell Canonical "In your face"! | 10:46 |
| Icey-Net | Am I right? :P | 10:46 |
| knome | uh | 10:46 |
| knome | if it's a great success, rather ask ubuntu (canonical) whether they'd like to use it. | 10:47 |
| knome | if it's released as closed source or non-free, i don't know how many distros would use it anyway. | 10:47 |
| Icey-Net | Ok, I'm just kidding. But if I was dead serious about getting this done, the best thing to do would be to get it to gnome devs? | 10:47 |
| Icey-Net | Obviously it would be free. :/ | 10:48 |
| vish | Icey-Net: yes , get a few devs to implement your ideas :) | 10:48 |
| Icey-Net | Good. Where do I get one of those? | 10:48 |
| knome | Icey-Net, you could propose the changes to be done. if they are not willing to, create a branch and get some devs do it in the branch, then propose merging :P | 10:48 |
| vish | then let it be adopted in the distributions | 10:48 |
| Icey-Net | =P | 10:48 |
| vish | Icey-Net: we have the gnome dev market ;) | 10:48 |
| Icey-Net | vish, will they work for a whopping price of 0.000 USD per hour? | 10:49 |
| * knome sings ..whisper words of wisdom: let it be | 10:49 | |
| knome | Icey-Net, yes, if they like the features you propose. | 10:49 |
| vish | Icey-Net: they might if they are inspired | 10:49 |
| Icey-Net | knome, inspired? | 10:50 |
| Icey-Net | wrong tab. :o | 10:50 |
| knome | Icey-Net, inspired as in the same thing i said :P | 10:50 |
| Icey-Net | knome, Ah yes. | 10:50 |
| Icey-Net | knome, Well, take a look at it. Do you think anyone will be inspired? :D | 10:50 |
| Icey-Net | Honestly, I've no idea. | 10:50 |
| knome | Icey-Net, i don't know. those things are matter of taste | 10:51 |
| thorwil | i'm not aware of a single successful floss software project started by someone who doesn't code himself | 10:51 |
| vish | Icey-Net: you will have better luck in getting new ideas , implemented in gnome-shell | 10:51 |
| knome | Icey-Net, i personally like a more traditional approach, but then again, i don't use gnome. | 10:51 |
| Icey-Net | knome, the design, graphics are obviously a matter of taste. As far as usability goes, that's what the main point is here. | 10:51 |
| vish | thorwil: +1 | 10:51 |
| knome | Icey-Net, usability is also something people disagree about | 10:52 |
| Icey-Net | knome, No. People disagree on what they 'think' is usability. | 10:52 |
| Icey-Net | knome, To be quite frank, no single person without extensive research can say for sure what's and what isn't 'usability'. | 10:53 |
| Icey-Net | I don't know what's usability, so I'm not going to even pretend that I do. | 10:53 |
| vish | Icey-Net: yes , everyone can only /think/ , i dont think there is enough moolah to do extensive user-testing for every feature | 10:53 |
| Icey-Net | I do, however, have ideas on what could, in fact, be that. | 10:54 |
| knome | Icey-Net, usability can be different things for different people. is the style you propose good for a guy with bad eyesight? maybe not, since there's still quite a lot of little-contrasted stuff. | 10:54 |
| Icey-Net | knome, But then again, the buttons a menu items are rather large. | 10:54 |
| Icey-Net | and* | 10:54 |
| knome | Icey-Net, size isn't everything, if your eyesight really is bad. you just can't see stuff. | 10:55 |
| knome | anyway, that was not an argument against the stuff | 10:55 |
| Icey-Net | They invented glasses for that. | 10:56 |
| knome | it was just proving that there are lots of things to consider and what works for others might not work for you and the other way around | 10:56 |
| Icey-Net | I mean obviously not everyone will find it usable and not everyone will like it. | 10:56 |
| knome | there are people who can't see with even glasses. and glasses do not fix contrast. | 10:56 |
| Icey-Net | knome, There are monitor options that tone down contrast. :P | 10:56 |
| knome | Icey-Net, that's why you can't say its usability is great. | 10:57 |
| Icey-Net | Yes. I can not. | 10:57 |
| knome | and that's why people are free to disagree | 10:57 |
| Icey-Net | They are in fact free to do so. | 10:57 |
| darkmatter | that's not usability though. it's accessibility. different fish. and with that I depart the conversation | 10:57 |
| knome | and that's why i say people can disagree about usability and not only "think" they disagree. | 10:58 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, We're just babbling non-sense for the lulz. Don't mind us. | 10:58 |
| knome | w/e, you can't please everyone. | 10:58 |
| Icey-Net | knome, Well, if they don't think they disagree, they really don't disagree. As they're not even thinking of disagreeing. | 10:58 |
| knome | start somewhere and get some devs working on it. | 10:58 |
| Icey-Net | knome, Of course not. | 10:58 |
| Icey-Net | knome, I will do just that. :P | 10:59 |
| knome | if they're not willing, code yourself or think of some modifications, or start from a smaller piece. | 10:59 |
| Icey-Net | Why wouldn't someone be willing? :O | 10:59 |
| knome | in the end smaller changes are easier to understand and start working on. | 10:59 |
| knome | Icey-Net, if they don't agree with your proposal or just don't like it enough to start working on it for free? | 11:00 |
| knome | == if they lack the inspiration | 11:00 |
| Icey-Net | knome, Why would they disagree and just not like it? :O | 11:00 |
| knome | Icey-Net, because they are free to disagree. you remember that part? :P | 11:01 |
| Icey-Net | knome, No they're not. I don't remember. No. Never! D: | 11:01 |
| knome | plus, people are afraid of change. | 11:01 |
| Icey-Net | knome, People are always afraid, will always be afraid and have always been always been afaird. | 11:01 |
| knome | yes. | 11:01 |
| vish | Icey-Net: FYI , gnome-panel is dead/dying , you will not see any more improvements/enhancements , gnome-shell is a probably which can have some new changes.. | 11:01 |
| Icey-Net | So? Does this mean that no change should ever be made? | 11:02 |
| Icey-Net | gnome-shell, in my opinion is... ehm... can I swear here? :P | 11:02 |
| knome | Icey-Net, nope. but if you can't code it yourself, ... | 11:02 |
| knome | Icey-Net, nobody has to do it for you. | 11:02 |
| vish | Icey-Net: everyone is still swearing , but all the experienced gnome devs are working on it ;) | 11:03 |
| Icey-Net | knome, What?! Everyone has to do it for me! :O This is Iceman! SPARTAAA!!! :O | 11:03 |
| darkmatter | vish: they're still improving/maintaining gnome-panel for the time being, since several distros are unlikely to switch over to that god awful shell even at gunpoint :P | 11:03 |
| vish | darkmatter: i meant in terms of enhancements :) bug fixes will go on | 11:04 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, I wont ever use gnome-shell. It has become a matter of principle. | 11:04 |
| vish | Icey-Net: tell me that in 2yrs ;p | 11:04 |
| knome | Icey-Net, feel free to come and discuss with me constructively once you've acknowledged you're not the king of the world. | 11:04 |
| Icey-Net | vish, In 2 years I'll see how Microsoft has pulled off another eye-candy OS that everyone will drool over. | 11:04 |
| Icey-Net | vish, Which I would be willing to pay another 200 bucks for. | 11:05 |
| Icey-Net | Forgetting all about the problems of gnome and whatnot. | 11:05 |
| darkmatter | vish: there are enhancements. two days ago iirc they fixed the notification applet to force ordering (kinda like fedora does but slightly different code) | 11:05 |
| Icey-Net | knome, I'm the king of the world!! D: | 11:05 |
| vish | darkmatter: that bug patch was in waiting for nearly 9-12 months ;) | 11:06 |
| Icey-Net | knome, P.S. I am, for the most part, just talking non-sense. =D | 11:06 |
| darkmatter | vish: what bug doesn't? :P | 11:06 |
| darkmatter | brb | 11:06 |
| darkmatter | vish: there are still some fairly obvious bugs floating around from ten years ago. it's awesome ;) | 11:14 |
| vish | darkmatter: yeah some are really frustrating too , well c'est la gnome vie :/ | 11:15 |
| darkmatter | hehe | 11:15 |
| darkmatter | vish: on a plus note, I finally got metacity to cooperate and give me 3 pixel rounded corners! | 11:18 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Oh boy! | 11:19 |
| darkmatter | now on to more fun drawing ops | 11:19 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, 3 pixels! 3! | 11:19 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, An entire 3! O_o | 11:19 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Is my sarcasm too mean? =( | 11:19 |
| darkmatter | Icey-Net: yes, instead of a highly pixelated 5 | 11:20 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Great success! | 11:20 |
| darkmatter | now I need to work on lighting and shadows. title rendering and designing some purtay multi-layered buttons | 11:21 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Err... | 11:21 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Yeah, yeah. Definitely. | 11:21 |
| Icey-Net | It is almost as if my neck is trying to murder me... | 11:23 |
| Icey-Net | it hurts... a lot. | 11:23 |
| darkmatter | Icey-Net: my back has been stabbing me in the back since wednesday. fun times | 11:23 |
| Icey-Net | Oh, gotta love that. | 11:24 |
| Icey-Net | Wait, have you guys even seen the concept design I made? | 11:24 |
| Icey-Net | I know thorwil has seen it. | 11:25 |
| darkmatter | Icey-Net: yeah, I saw it on DA earlier | 11:25 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Really? | 11:25 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, You just stumbled upon it or something? | 11:25 |
| darkmatter | Icey-Net: yeah. I was browsing DA out of boredom | 11:26 |
| Icey-Net | pfft | 11:26 |
| Icey-Net | stupid IRC client. -.- | 11:26 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Did you say something? | 11:26 |
| darkmatter | Icey-Net: yeah. I said I was browsing DA out of boredom when I saw it | 11:27 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Are you being sarcastic? =.= | 11:27 |
| darkmatter | no. I browse DA out of boredom frequently :P | 11:28 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Oh... | 11:28 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, How do you like the cursors? | 11:28 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, I'm particulary worried about that. They're the first cursors I've made. Ever. | 11:28 |
| darkmatter | Icey-Net: the cursors are awesome. they go nicely with ubuntu's new branding imo | 11:29 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, New branding now? | 11:29 |
| vish | darkmatter: screenshot [of the new borders]? | 11:29 |
| darkmatter | vish: sec | 11:30 |
| darkmatter | I stole the buttons from elementary as place holders :P | 11:30 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Thief! What kind of a person steals stuff from elementary? :l | 11:32 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, You are aware that I am, in fact, just messin' with ya, yes? | 11:36 |
| darkmatter | aye | 11:36 |
| Icey-Net | Wewt. O_o | 11:37 |
| darkmatter | vish: sorry, I had to find a wally light enough to get a clear look at them. ignore the font and crap. placeholder evils :P http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9742/screenshotyu.png | 11:38 |
| Icey-Net | darkmatter, Hisss! :o You put me on the screenshot! :O | 11:41 |
| vish | darkmatter: hmm , still not the best :( , but why is the border towards the top tapering inward? it that by design or due to lighter colors towards the top fooling the eyes? | 11:41 |
| vish | rather darker colors maybe.. | 11:41 |
| darkmatter | vish: it's my transparency settings and the fact that I still need to apply the drawing ops to the titlebar. I just started on those. I need to round/fade the corners of the highlight, add a slight gradient, etch the text (and embolden it slightly). move the title to the left, drop the menu button, blah blah | 11:44 |
| vish | ;) | 11:45 |
| darkmatter | vish: at least they're not pixelated :P | 11:45 |
| darkmatter | I needed to start on the metacity before continuing on the gtk. because otherwise it'll look like crap | 11:46 |
| darkmatter | vish: I just wish the drawing ops for metacity were simpler. it takes forever to code :/ | 11:47 |
| vish | darkmatter: is there a metacity viewer , something like twf? | 11:48 |
| darkmatter | vish. theres a built in viewer to run from a terminal. there's also the widget laboratory. it's like the widget factory but does both gtk and metacity | 11:49 |
| vish | kinda irritating playing with metacity and having to reselect the theme ,just to check how it looks.. | 11:49 |
| darkmatter | https://launchpad.net/twl | 11:50 |
| vish | $metacity-theme-viewer theme ainth that good , it only draws the title bar from the theme mentioned :s | 11:51 |
| darkmatter | vish: looks like http://gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=119773&file1=119773-1.jpg&file2=&file3=&name=The+Widget+Laboratory | 11:51 |
| vish | darkmatter: ooh , neat thanks | 11:52 |
| darkmatter | np. I still need to replace twf with it ;p | 11:52 |
| Icey-Net | Hai! =) | 13:52 |
| SilentDream | hi everyone! | 14:02 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, Hai! :P | 15:54 |
| thorwil | hi | 15:55 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, I released the cursors from my concept design. ;o | 16:03 |
| thorwil | Icey-Net: so they can roam free and live their life in the wilderness? | 16:05 |
| Icey-Net | thorwil, Exactly. :B | 16:05 |
| thorwil | :B what's that? two tongues, split tongue or rabbit-teeth? | 16:06 |
| Icey-Net | Bucktoofs. =P | 16:07 |
| Icey-Net | I'll, hopefully be back later. | 16:09 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
