[00:05] <rickspencer3> seb128, on balance I decided it was best to revert the "don't show user list" checkbox
[00:05] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell agreed
[00:05] <rickspencer3> (well agreed to do it at least ;) )
[00:05] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, sure did
[00:06] <seb128> lol
[00:06] <seb128> rickspencer3, you are good at convincing other people well you want something ;-)
[00:07] <rickspencer3> seb128, we should work with tweakubuntu guys or what not
[00:07] <rickspencer3> put some rich gdm settings in there for people who want them
[00:07] <rickspencer3> and help them do it properly
[00:07] <rickspencer3> what do you think seb128?
[00:07] <seb128> not discussing that
[00:08] <rickspencer3> lol
[00:08] <rickspencer3> oops
[00:08] <seb128> I think that's a nice goal
[00:08] <rickspencer3> (I was thinking for 10.10 of course)
[00:08] <seb128> but I also think that we should not rely on that
[00:09] <seb128> if those settings are useful to tweak they should be in gdmsetup as we discussed at the lucid uds
[00:09] <seb128> looking for random apps in the universe is something 90% of users will not do
[00:09] <seb128> that's orthogonal to what we do with the option now in lucid btw
[00:09] <arand> (Regarding featured apps) ...was noticing that stellarium, fretsonfire and moovida are quite unusable without 3D support. Stellarium I think might be motivated a bit by it's sheer awesomeness, but a media center shouldn't really need 3D right? And for fretsonfire... well the 3D it has isn't really the most exciting, suggestion is armagetronad instead, which runs quite ok, both on nouveau & virtualbox as far as I've tested.
[00:10] <robert_ancell> arand, how bad is moovida without 3d?
[00:10] <arand> As far as I can tell, _very_
[00:11] <RAOF> Does it work at all?  I thought it used a clutter-like toolkit.
[00:11] <robert_ancell> doesn't clutter work fine in noveaux?
[00:12] <RAOF> Not unless you install from xorg-edgers.  We're not supporting 3D for lucid.
[00:13] <arand> http://www.moovida.com/wiki/MinimalHardwareRequirements opengl, pixel shader...
[00:22] <arand> robert_ancell: On my nouveau system here it also goes whacko with incorrect resolution (only using one corner), all videos are in black-and white, the videos are actually watchable (compared to the interface), although rather choppy.
[00:34] <robert_ancell> hmm
[00:49] <robert_ancell> seb128, so many 2.30 tarballs :)
[00:50] <seb128> robert_ancell, yes
[00:50] <seb128> robert_ancell, do you want to do some?
[00:50] <robert_ancell> seb128, I will if I can find the time.
[00:50] <robert_ancell> brb
[00:52] <rickspencer3> bug #540801
[00:53] <rickspencer3> interesting
[00:53] <rickspencer3> so basically, starting up too fast to even display a splashscreen
[01:26] <kklimonda> rickspencer3: well, the problem is users see a blinking cursor while ureadahead is working
[01:27] <rickspencer3> kklimonda, yes, the situation is quite sub-optimal
[01:27] <rickspencer3> but I like the "starting too fast" part
[01:28] <rickspencer3> that part is a good problem to have
[01:28] <kklimonda> true :)
[01:29] <rickspencer3> bah
[01:29] <rickspencer3> sound indicator and sound settings have been acting weird all day
[01:29] <kklimonda> rickspencer3: do you know how much overhead does moving plymouth to initrd add?
[01:29] <rickspencer3> kklimonda, no idea
[01:29] <rickspencer3> plymouth and boot and such, is managed by foundations team
[01:30] <rickspencer3> so I don't track it too much
[01:30] <rickspencer3> :(
[01:30] <rickspencer3> though keybuk is generally very responsive and open if you have questions for him
[01:30] <kklimonda> I guess you already have enough on your plate :)
[01:31] <rickspencer3> I would say that was true if I did any real work
[01:31] <rickspencer3> I'm more of the pointy haired type of manager
[01:31] <rickspencer3>  ;)
[01:31] <kklimonda> oh, come on - I can see you all the time cracking this whip of yours ;)
[01:31] <rickspencer3> also, I trust keybuk totally
[01:31] <rickspencer3> he really would not benefit in any way from me "helping" him :)
[01:32] <kklimonda> heh, he does seem to do quite a lot :)
[02:17] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, check this out
[02:17] <kenvandine> 2010-03-29 21:14:00,298 - Gwibber GNOME Client - INFO - Running from the system path
[02:17] <kenvandine> 2010-03-29 21:14:00,716 - Gwibber Service - INFO - Running from the system path
[02:17] <kenvandine> 2010-03-29 21:14:01,009 - Gwibber Dispatcher - DEBUG - Setting up monitors
[02:17] <kenvandine> 2010-03-29 21:14:01,189 - Gwibber Dispatcher - DEBUG - Monitors are up
[02:17] <kenvandine> look at the times, the first line is when i launched the client
[02:17] <kenvandine> the last is when the service is fully up
[02:18] <kenvandine> :-D
[02:20] <bryceh> sweet, congrats
[02:26] <RAOF> Heh.  Good to see my decision not to fix gnome-keyring-sharp on-top of the secrets DBus api.  A lot of the calls go to org.gnome.keyring.InternalUnsupportedGuiltRiddenInterface :)
[02:36] <kenvandine> yay... and 1.7s on cold cache
[02:54] <lifeless> what is ?
[02:59] <kenvandine> lifeless, gwibber-service startup
[03:00] <kenvandine> including desktopcouch startup :)
[03:10] <lifeless> nice
[03:11] <kenvandine> lifeless, all those performance issues were in desktopcouch
[03:13] <lifeless> heh
[03:13] <lifeless> so, I have to see if gwibber will run for me, again.
[03:15] <desrt> so, the beta looks pretty slick
[03:22] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, chouette!
[03:22] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, ppa?
[03:24] <kenvandine> lucid :)
[03:24] <rickspencer3> hi desrt, thanks
[03:24] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, uploaded like 20m ago
[03:25] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, if you're around, let me know when it builds and I'll try it out for you
[03:25] <kenvandine> sure
[03:25] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, oh, it's in lucid already?
[03:25] <rickspencer3> nice
[03:29] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, what's with the 416 ms to startup the server?
[03:29] <rickspencer3> shouldn't that be like half of that?
[03:29] <rickspencer3> j/k
[03:29] <kenvandine> hehehe
[03:31] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, seb128 made a good point to me about options for GDM in 10.10
[03:32] <rickspencer3> that we probably had a good list for 10.04 UDS, and should stick with that list in 10.10
[03:35] <robert_ancell> *sigh* ;)
[03:37] <desrt> hmm.
[03:38] <desrt> 63.5 seconds to the desktop
[03:38] <desrt> (48.5 seconds to boot, 15 seconds to login)
[03:39] <desrt> seems a bit short of the 10 seconds mark :p
[03:40] <desrt> rickspencer3: does yahoo give revenue for every time i search using them?
[03:40] <desrt> rickspencer3: or is having them as the default sort of a flat-rate deal?
[03:40] <rickspencer3> desrt, I don't know
[03:40] <rickspencer3> and 63.5 seconds?
[03:40] <rickspencer3> that sounds quite dire
[03:40] <desrt> yes.  i'm shocked.
[03:40] <desrt> i think there may be something wrong with X
[03:40] <rickspencer3> something is deeply wrong
[03:40] <rickspencer3> at least it'
[03:40] <rickspencer3> s booting thoguh
[03:41] <desrt> it seems to get stuck at a certain point for quite a while
[03:41] <desrt> although, fwiw it takes it about 15-20 seconds to even get to *that* point
[03:41] <rickspencer3> that is very odd
[03:42] <rickspencer3> would be nice to know what is wrong though
[03:42] <rickspencer3> desrt, I don't suppose you'd be interested in setting up a boot chart and all this?
[03:42] <desrt> well, one thing that is slightly odd is that i'm using my laptop with external monitors at the moment
[03:42] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[03:42] <desrt> since the screen is broken
[03:42] <desrt> but i ordered the replacement part from IBM
[03:42] <desrt> and it should be here in a couple of days
[03:42] <desrt> will be interesting to see if it gets better then
[03:42] <desrt> is there some wiki page telling me how to setup a bootchart?
[03:43] <rickspencer3> desrt, probably
[03:43]  * rickspencer3 looks
[03:43]  * desrt runs some upgrades
[03:44] <desrt> there's new xorg stuff in here.  maybe it fixes it.
[03:47]  * desrt sees the .0s of a lot of gtk/gnome stuff in here.  sweet.
[03:48] <rickspencer3> desrt, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting
[03:48] <rickspencer3> ^ in case it doesn't "fix itself"
[03:48]  * rickspencer3 suspects the external monitor is causing the problem
[03:48] <desrt> rickspencer3: do you know what the procedure for getting a new wireless phone carrier listed in network manager for this release would be?
[03:48] <desrt> we have quite a new company in canada that's not in there
[03:48] <desrt> and they're quite popular among the hipster young crowd
[03:49] <rickspencer3> desrt, I forget the exact procedure, but if you ask chriscoulson and/or asac, they'll help you with that
[03:49] <desrt> i'd file a bug but i have to assume it wouldn't be looked at until it's too late :)
[03:49] <rickspencer3> I think it's kind of crowd source thing
[03:49] <rickspencer3> desrt, I don't know
[03:49] <rickspencer3> I think the list may be extensible
[03:49] <rickspencer3> and it's not a new feature, and it's before final freeze
[03:49] <desrt> well
[03:50] <desrt> i'm thinking of heading over to one of their stores
[03:50] <rickspencer3> so I wouldn't assume that it won't be taken, but I wouldn't promise either
[03:50] <desrt> and talking to one of their reps about all the plans they have
[03:50] <desrt> the APNs, etc
[03:50] <rickspencer3> mmm
[03:50] <rickspencer3> I bought a 3g card that wasn't listed in the NM, and it wasn't hard to set up
[03:50] <desrt> i think they only have 3 or 4 data plans at this point so it should be fairly easy
[03:51] <desrt> but they use different APNs, i think
[03:53] <desrt> weird to see that the kernel version only bumped by 0.0.1 this whole cycle
[03:54] <rickspencer3> kernel seems very solid to me this release
[03:54] <rickspencer3> and sound worked well for me until today's update :/
[03:54] <rickspencer3> still words but the GUI is all out of whack
[03:54] <desrt> pulse was getting on my nerves this past month or so
[03:55] <desrt> evolution has been taken off the panel.
[03:55] <desrt> subtle
[03:56] <rickspencer3> RAOF, I've been using f-spot, so finding some good bugs for you, like bug #551384
[03:56] <rickspencer3> ;)
[03:56] <ccheney> anyone else having problems with evolution not running?
[03:56] <ccheney> it seems to run for me but immediately crash
[03:57] <lifeless> working for me ATM
[03:57] <lifeless> ccheney: run it from a console
[03:57] <lifeless> you should get some output
[03:57] <ccheney> ah lots of updates today maybe i need some of them
[03:57] <lifeless> before yuo change things
[03:57] <lifeless> run it from a terminal
[03:57] <ccheney> ok
[03:57] <lifeless> do this:
[03:57] <lifeless> evolution --force-shutdown
[03:57] <lifeless> evolution
[03:58] <ccheney> seems to work this time, but didn't the past few times i ran it :-\
[03:58] <ccheney> heisenbug
[03:59] <rickspencer3> ccheney, wfm
[03:59] <ccheney> rickspencer3: yea wfm now too, not sure what was going on before
[04:00] <lifeless> ccheney: next time, console as the first step
[04:00] <lifeless> don't do the --force-shutdown initially, because it can 'fix' things if you have a hung eds etc
[04:00] <ccheney> lifeless: ah ok
[04:01] <lifeless> evolution needs a pick-axe
[04:01] <lifeless> and about 6 months of nothing but cleanups and rationalisation
[04:01] <lifeless> then the lovely core of it might shine through.
[04:01] <ccheney> heh
[04:11] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Awesome :)
[04:13] <rickspencer3> RAOF, much nicer to find these *before* final freeze, huh?
[04:13] <RAOF> Most assuredly!
[04:15] <RAOF> Feel free to keep assigning me f-spot bugs.  I likes me a good list.
[04:16] <rickspencer3> RAOF, will do
[04:16] <rickspencer3> RAOF, it really is much better for cropping screenshots than using the gimp
[04:16] <rickspencer3> has saved me a lot of time
[04:16] <RAOF> Good to hear :)
[04:26] <desrt> rickspencer3: http://imgur.com/LEEEA
[04:26] <desrt> rickspencer3: Xorg starts at the 20s mark
[04:27] <rickspencer3> desrt, yeah, I'm not too good at reading this ...
[04:27] <desrt> then does a whole lot of nothing for the next 25 seconds...
[04:27] <rickspencer3> but it looks like your desktop it taking a whole lot of time to load up
[04:27] <rickspencer3> oh ewe
[04:27] <rickspencer3> desrt, may I impose on you to log a bug?
[04:28] <desrt> sure.  i can do that
[04:28] <desrt> is there someone in specific that i should talk to about this?
[04:28] <rickspencer3> seems like probably the best way to get it in front of people who would know
[04:28] <rickspencer3> desrt, yes, keybuk, I think
[04:28] <desrt> what product do i file against, exactly?
[04:28] <desrt> xorg/
[04:28] <rickspencer3> at least he can tell you if it's related to boot or just the desktop
[04:28] <desrt> of note: i don't see any sort of bootsplash at all
[04:29] <rickspencer3> desrt, sure xorg-xserver(ubuntu) would be fine to start
[04:29] <desrt> just some message about fsck being OK
[04:29] <rickspencer3> desrt, there is bug #540801 about boot splash not showing
[04:29] <rickspencer3> but that comes with a *fast* boot time
[04:32] <desrt> annyoingly, Xorg.log doesn't contain timestamps :(
[04:33] <desrt> oo.  i have a theory.
[04:34] <desrt> this may not be much of a bug....
[04:36] <bryceh> I really doubt it is X
[04:37] <bryceh> there is a patch to turn on timestamping in the Xorg.0.log files
[04:37] <bryceh> however I found it tended not to be that useful
[04:38] <desrt> ok ya.  you guys can't possibly be expected to fix this problem
[04:38] <desrt> and yes -- it was X
[04:38] <rickspencer3> hehe
[04:38] <rickspencer3> well?
[04:39] <desrt> as i said -- my laptop screen is broke
[04:39] <bryceh> desrt, how do you know it is X?
[04:39] <desrt> so i detached the screen until i get the part to replace it
[04:39] <desrt> it's a tablet
[04:39] <rickspencer3> oh my
[04:39] <bryceh> people say stuff is X all the time, but it usually ends up being either the kernel or a client-side issue
[04:39] <desrt> the 30 second pause is it repeatedly trying to initialise the wacom driver and failing
[04:39] <desrt> for obvious reasons...
[04:39] <bryceh> ah
[04:39] <rickspencer3> so the fact that it booted at all is pretty cool ;)
[04:39] <desrt> remove the wacom driver .so file and it's fine
[04:39] <desrt> boots in about 20 seconds
[04:39] <bryceh> ok
[04:40] <desrt> although now X randomly crashes on login
[04:40] <bryceh> desrt, ok, file against -wacom
[04:40] <desrt> not sure what that's about :)
[04:40] <desrt> (II) intel(0): Allocate new frame buffer 2400x1920 stride 2432
[04:40] <desrt> Fatal server error:
[04:40] <desrt> Failed to submit batchbuffer: No space left on device
[04:41] <desrt> hm.  that's unhappy.
[04:46] <lifeless> special :>
[04:52]  * desrt finally gets X to randomly not crash
[04:52] <desrt> a pair of bugs this evening, it seems :)
[04:59]  * desrt sobs as it looks like a "timeout error" on launchpad just ate his entire report >:|
[05:00] <desrt> meh.  bed time, i think
[05:00]  * desrt tries again tomorrow.  nite!
[06:42] <TheMuso> pitti: Can't reproduce the at-spi race any more. Strange, will look into it again if it pops up again.
[07:06] <pitti> Good morning
[07:07] <pitti> kklimonda: for PPU, about two endorsements should be fine
[07:07] <pitti> robert_ancell: gnome-color-manager> does it follow the GNOME release cycle, freezes, and release management?
[07:08] <pitti> TheMuso: yay Heisenbugs..
[07:09] <robert_ancell> pitti, yes, afaik.  it's not an official module (yet) though
[07:10] <robert_ancell> pitti, is that the criteria for the freeze exception?
[07:10] <pitti> robert_ancell: if it's following GNOME freezes and RM, it's fine to upload; it should meet our feature freeze conditions then
[07:10] <tjaalton> desrt: wacom 0.10.5 should make the init faster
[07:10] <pitti> robert_ancell: yes, pretty much
[07:10]  * robert_ancell makes a mental not to make sure all his projects meet the gnome requirements :)
[07:14] <baptistemm> hello
[07:46]  * pitti -> doctor appointment, bbl
[08:12] <didrocks> good morning
[08:36] <seb128> hello everybody
[08:37] <didrocks> hey seb128, how are you? not too tired?
[08:37] <seb128> hey didrocks, not that's ok
[08:37] <seb128> you?
[08:37] <RAOF> Good evening seb128 :)
[08:37] <seb128> good evening RAOF
[08:38] <didrocks> seb128: it's ok too there ;)
[08:38] <seb128> how was the dinner with your editors?
[08:41] <didrocks> seb128: it was good, thanks. It's been a long time I didn't see him and a lot of goodness coming :)
[08:41] <didrocks> seb128: and you, sport? ;)
[08:42] <seb128> didrocks, quite good before starting the second day work shift :p
[08:43] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I saw, you was getting to bed late :/
[08:43] <didrocks> seb128: you know, I guess some cacn wait for tomorrow now that I'm there to help you :)
[08:43] <seb128> right, as usual I'm not tired on week start
[08:44] <seb128> cacn?
[08:44] <seb128> "can"
[08:44] <seb128> yeah, I went to bed with a small stack of tarballs left to update
[08:45] <didrocks> seb128: so, you can rely more on me and enjoy some ealier evening :)
[08:46] <seb128> didrocks, there is enough work for both of us don't worry
[08:46] <seb128> and I blame vuntz for rolling tarball after the timeline too
[08:46] <didrocks> seb128: oh you know, I don't worry for that ^^
[08:46] <didrocks> yeah, it's fun to see vuntz claiming "come on, give me your tarball" on GNOME ML
[08:48] <didrocks> I finish fixing Quickly FTBFS (forgot to add gnome-doc-utils for l10n) and I'm back on the field :)
[08:48] <seb128> ok good
[08:50] <seb128> vuntz, hey
[08:50] <seb128> vuntz, g-d-u has a 2.30.1 tarball
[08:51] <seb128> not sure why it's on your list
[08:52] <seb128> oh good
[08:52] <seb128> robert_ancell has been helping with updates
[08:53] <didrocks> right :)
[08:53] <seb128> didrocks, doing the gnome-panel tomboy libgweather tarballs now
[08:53] <seb128> didrocks, there is quite some others, let me know if you want names
[08:55] <didrocks> seb128: I can do gnome-menus, gnome-themes, gtk-engines? does this sound right?
[08:55] <seb128> yes
[08:55]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[08:55]  * didrocks hugs seb128
[09:08] <didrocks> pitti: gnome-menus bzr is still UNRELEASED for 2.29.92-0ubuntu5 (and it's been uploaded). Not sure if you just forgot to push the released version or if you change/added something. Want for this one
[09:10] <asac> chrisccoulson on vac?
[09:10] <asac> oh its 10 am only ... ignore then ;)
[09:12] <seb128> asac, in what timezone are you?
[09:12] <seb128> asac, is there any chance you unblock us for updates you say you would be today for a week now?
[09:13] <seb128> asac, beta2 freeze is soon and we delay getting things which should have landed weeks ago which is a real issue now
[09:13] <baptistemm> asac, hi, could you review and test bug 534702 if you some free time
[09:17] <pitti> re
[09:18] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:18] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[09:18] <baptistemm> hi pitti
[09:18] <pitti> didrocks: sorry, pushed
[09:19] <pitti> bonjour mes amis
[09:19] <didrocks> pitti: no pb, thanks ;)
[09:42] <asac> seb128: uploaded nmapplet
[09:42] <seb128> asac, thanks
[09:42] <asac> had to go through hops because i couldnt upload from here :(
[09:43] <seb128> asac, I think chrisccoulson was looking for you about nss yesterday too
[09:43] <asac> yes. i wanted to check with him again
[09:44] <asac> he said it was ready for a week, but every day i waited he found issues  ;)
[09:44] <asac> more important is that security update is coming today for all the stable branches :/
[09:58] <didrocks> seb128: doing gedit-plugins and gnome-session
[09:59] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[10:13]  * bryceh waves to chrisccoulson
[10:13] <chrisccoulson> hey bryceh, how are you?
[10:13] <bryceh> hi njpatel, how goes?
[10:13] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, ok, busy as always
[10:13] <bryceh> my wife had a talking to me today for working too much :-P
[10:13] <njpatel> bryceh, hey dude, good thanks, and yourself?
[10:14] <bryceh> but otoh X seems to be coming along :-)
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's ok then ;)
[10:15] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, bryceh
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[10:15] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
[10:15] <bryceh> don't get married ;-)
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, good morning to you too
[10:15] <bryceh> heya didrocks
[10:16] <pitti> bryceh: watch the burnout charts!
[10:17] <bryceh> pitti, burndown charts?
[10:18] <pitti> bryceh: that was a slip of the tongue by someone a few months ago, but I liked it
[10:18] <bryceh> pitti, hehe
[10:21] <bryceh> I fed my son fruit (applesauce) for the first time today; he absolutely loved it.  He's only had milk and veggies up 'til now
[10:21] <bryceh> that was a lot of fun :-)
[10:21] <pitti> I'm sure it was all over the place after that :)
[10:21] <chrisccoulson> how old is he now?
[10:21] <pitti> bryceh: I'm sure he loved the sugar
[10:22] <bryceh> he's a bit over 6 months
[10:23] <bryceh> pitti, he actually kept it down pretty good.  Some of the veggies have been hard on his system but the apples were fine
[10:23] <bryceh> pitti, I'm sure you're right about the sugar :-)
[10:24] <bryceh> he's been fairly good with the veggies, and it's our goal to really put the main emphasis there.  We held off on fruit specifically so we could get him to enjoy vegetables first
[10:25] <pitti> bryceh: well, but cooked veggies for sure? raw is much harder to digest
[10:29] <bryceh> pitti, cooked yes
[10:29] <bryceh> we do intend to eventually get him onto pureed veggies (raw or cooked)
[10:33] <bryceh> more topically...  bug stats for X.org lookin' good:  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/totals.svg
[10:34] <chrisccoulson> bryceh - i think our daughter might be starting to need a little extra in her diet now. she keeps waking up in the night again ;)
[10:34] <didrocks> seb128: ok, if you have more updates you think we should do now, do not hesitate :)
[10:34] <chrisccoulson> i was just going to do gedit-plugins and then noticed that you already did it ;)
[10:35] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, how old is she?
[10:35] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, she's 4 1/2 months now
[10:35] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, nice :-)
[10:36] <seb128> didrocks, hum, sure
[10:36] <seb128> didrocks, deskbar-applet pessulus bug-buddy
[10:36] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, does she fall asleep during feedings?  Our son does, so we poke and prod him to keep him awake enough to get a full feeding before bed.  That makes him sleep a lot longer than when he doesn't
[10:36] <seb128> didrocks, or gnome-settings-daemon rather
[10:36] <seb128> hey bryceh chrisccoulson
[10:37] <didrocks> seb128: ok, on them :)
[10:37] <seb128> didrocks, thanks!
[10:37] <didrocks> you're welcome :)
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, she does fall asleep sometimes, but we normally try and keep her awake so she gets a full feed
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[10:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm good thanks, how are you?
[10:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, asac was looking for you before
[10:37] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks!
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> oh, he was?
[10:38] <chrisccoulson> i saw he uploaded nm-applet now
[10:38] <seb128> yeah, I pinged him about that
[10:38] <seb128> I think he wanted to talk to you about nss
[10:38] <chrisccoulson> ah yes
[11:09] <pitti> seb128: objections if I drop ~ubuntu-desktop/notify-osd/ubuntu/ and use lp:ubuntu/notify-osd ?
[11:09] <seb128> pitti, I'm not sure about it
[11:09] <seb128> I've been tried to ping james_w with question on such changes
[11:10] <seb128> but he seems to not be around or I'm in his ignore list or something... ;-)
[11:10] <pitti> (it's current, I checked)
[11:10] <seb128> right
[11:10] <pitti> seb128: well, if you have some doubts, nevermind
[11:10] <seb128> the issue is that dxteam guys merge back for their daily builds, etc
[11:10] <pitti> no need to waste time on this now
[11:10] <seb128> and when we do that we break what they are doing
[11:10] <seb128> seems they can't merge from lp:ubuntu...
[11:10] <seb128> or rather it's not the same history
[11:10] <pitti> no, they won't be able to; they'd have to rebase
[11:10] <seb128> so I'm wondering if we should overwrite the import with that one
[11:10] <seb128> or how to do that
[11:11] <seb128> ie decide the ubuntu-desktop is the canonical one
[11:11] <pitti> ok, I don't think that'd work, because it wouldn't have pristine tarballs in it
[11:11] <pitti> seb128: ok, let's not worry about this for now
[11:11] <seb128> ok
[11:11] <seb128> I prefer to sort that with dx guys clearly
[11:11] <seb128> thanks
[11:12] <seb128> what do you hack on notify-osd btw? ;-)
[11:12] <seb128> pitti, be careful don't merge from trunk
[11:12] <pitti> bug 461407
[11:12] <seb128> pitti, MacSlow has a lucid bzr
[11:12] <pitti> seb128: no, just a packaging fix
[11:12] <seb128> ok
[11:13] <MacSlow> pitti, bzr branch lp:notify-osd/lucid is where the lucid-version of notify-osd lives
[11:14] <bryceh> hi MacSlow
[11:14] <MacSlow> hey bryceh
[11:14] <seb128> MacSlow, did you have any chance to look at this gtk change which breaks notify-osd?
[11:14] <seb128> MacSlow, hey btw ;-)
[11:14] <pitti> MacSlow: do you want me to merge stuff from it? or is that just a general FYI?
[11:14] <pitti> MacSlow: oh, und hallo!
[11:15] <MacSlow> seb128, yes... I've a quick-fix... but also an idea of a nicer fix... but I've not had time yet to turn to this... although I'm trying hard to get to notify-osd again today
[11:15] <MacSlow> pitti, just general info
[11:16] <pitti> *phew*, got my +assignedbugs down to 28
[11:17] <MacSlow> seb128, the quick-fix being reverting the culprit commit from gtk+ (just really 3 relevant lines of code affecting broken Xservers)... the idea for a better solution is something I need to try in notify-osd (without touching upstream gtk+)
[11:17] <MacSlow> seb128, I guess you would like the latter idea to work :)
[11:17] <seb128> right, would be nicer
[11:17] <MacSlow> seb128, but I still need to investigate it futher
[11:18] <MacSlow> seb128, but if all else fails.. would you accept the revert of the upstream gtk+ commit?
[11:18] <seb128> MacSlow, I would like to get bratsche's opinion on that before
[11:18] <seb128> I would prefer not adding back a gtk crasher just to wokraround a notify-osd bug
[11:19] <seb128> even if the crasher is on non standard xservers
[11:19] <MacSlow> seb128, it is _not_ a bug in notify-osd
[11:19] <seb128> some people do use remote displays, vnc, ...
[11:19] <seb128> MacSlow, well seems you are making a wrong assumption about gtk behaviour there no
[11:19] <MacSlow> no
[11:20] <seb128> so ask bratsche if he could have a look at fixing the gtk change to be correct?
[11:20] <MacSlow> seb128, the whole issue is within X11 (input) Shape extension
[11:22] <seb128> MacSlow, why do you want to change notify-osd if the bug is not there?
[11:22] <MacSlow> seb128, it's just to ease you life.
[11:23] <seb128> MacSlow, we should rather fix the gtk change if it was wrong
[11:24] <seb128> pitti, bug #461407, did you change to commited by error?
[11:24] <pitti> seb128: yes, just reverted it
[11:24] <seb128> ok good
[11:24] <seb128> I noticed while reading emails
[11:24] <pitti> it got accepted faster than I could set it to committed
[11:25] <pitti> meh, staging is down
[11:27] <seb128> good to see the retracers working btw
[11:28] <pitti> it's still grinding, indeed
[11:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so you fixed the fonts thing?
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> pitti - mdeslaur had an updated patch with a couple of things i missed out
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> and it's working great now
[11:31] <pitti> sweet
[11:31]  * pitti hugs you and mdeslaur
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> so, i've got nice fonts here :)
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> it's great, i can actually sit further back from the screen and i'm still able to read it ;)
[11:33] <pitti> upload! upload! upload!
[11:37] <baptistemm> I have a fix for bluez apport hook, is it still possible to upload?
[11:37] <pitti> sure
[11:47] <didrocks> seb128: this g-s-d update is really scarry, refresh those patches are just hell :/
[11:47] <seb128> didrocks, :-(
[11:47] <seb128> I tried to get chrisccoulson to update his notify patch yesterday
[11:47] <seb128> but he bailed out of this one
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> i can update it if you like?
[11:48] <seb128> didrocks, ^
[11:48] <baptistemm> wow, X crash
[11:48] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I think I updated it properly, but even with removing it, my multimedia keys don't work
[11:48] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> the keys don't work at all, or just the notification?
[11:49] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: don't work at all, not sure if that comes from g-s-d directly. I'm trying to removing all patches to check
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - what does g-s-d say if you run it on the terminal?
[11:50] <chrisccoulson> (it might tell you straight away what is wrong)
[11:50] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: trying that. No --replace switch?
[11:51] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - no, you'll have to stop the existing process first, and run the new one with --no-daemon
[11:52] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: ** (gnome-settings-daemon:31841): WARNING **: Cannot load plugin 'Touches multimédias' since file '/usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-2.0/libmedia-keys.so' cannot be read.
[11:52] <didrocks> (the file is there)
[11:52] <didrocks> oh undefinied symbol
[11:52] <didrocks> ok, can have a look there :)
[11:53] <chrisccoulson> yeah, the undefined symbol will be a good clue ;)
[12:03]  * didrocks doesn't understand why we don't have this error on build. Furthemore, all seems well exported and available to the calling function
[12:03] <TheMuso> When changing gconf settings for the gdm user, what is the best way to change them such that they stick on gdm upgrade?
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - which function is it?
[12:03] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: gsd_osd_notification_show_value
[12:04] <didrocks> TheMuso: change with gconftool-2 now that the path has been fixed. It should change your values in ~gdm/.gconf/…
[12:04] <chrisccoulson> do you want me to take a look at it?
[12:04] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh please yes, you should get to it far faster than I, let me push :)
[12:04] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[12:05] <TheMuso> didrocks: Ok, would this apply to a casper script setting gconf settings prior to pivoting into the live FS?
[12:06] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: done. Thank to you :)
[12:06] <didrocks> TheMuso: hum, oh, ~gdm/.gconf is for user configuration, not distro change
[12:07] <didrocks> TheMuso: right now, xubuntu and mythbuntu are diverting ~gdm/.gconf.defaults/%gconf-tree.xml but that's less than optimal
[12:08] <TheMuso> didrocks: yuck
[12:09] <TheMuso> didrocks: Right, specifically I want to set some accessibility settings for gdm, and I want to make sure they stick. The proposed solution is mentioned in bug 551515 but I am not sure if that is sane.
[12:10] <tseliot> pitti: I have a change for Jockey's xorg handler too. Can I commit it to both the ubuntu branch and the master branch?
[12:11] <didrocks> TheMuso: this is set if people are using the "accessibility option" at start, right?
[12:11] <pitti> tseliot: please commit to trunk and merge to ubuntu
[12:11] <vuntz> dobey: do you plan to do a evolution-webcal tarball for 2.30.0?
[12:11] <TheMuso> didrocks: Yes.
[12:11] <tseliot> pitti: ok
[12:12] <didrocks> TheMuso: I don't know what really gct_gdm does exactly. If it's just a wrapper of gconftool-2 and we know that the daemon is running/can be launched with that (what seemed to worked before), this should be fixed no with my added path
[12:12] <seb128> didrocks, you can ignore libidl update
[12:12] <didrocks> TheMuso: so, start the live system and check that the accessibility key are available in ~gdm/.gconf/
[12:12] <seb128> it's a vuntz thing
[12:12] <seb128> there is no code change or translation change
[12:13] <didrocks> seb128: ok
[12:13] <seb128> not really something worth updating
[12:13] <didrocks> right, thanks :)
[12:13] <seb128> np
[12:13] <seb128> we can always sync from debian the day they update
[12:13] <TheMuso> didrocks: Ok, will have a look tomorrow. Was online this evening and was pointed to this bug.
[12:13] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, that's better ;)
[12:13] <didrocks> TheMuso: ok, let me know if you have that, but it should be fixed since last week iso :)
[12:14] <TheMuso> didrocks: Ok great, thanks.
[12:14] <didrocks> TheMuso: you're welcome
[12:14] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - gsd-osd-notification.[c,h] does not get compiled, as it's missing from plugins/common/Makefile.am
[12:14] <chrisccoulson> that might be the issue ;)
[12:14] <chrisccoulson> i'll fix that now anyway
[12:14] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: hum, maybe :)
[12:14] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: strange, didn't see the rejection on that one
[12:15] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks ;)
[12:15] <chrisccoulson> you're welcome
[12:16] <seb128> didrocks, same for orbit
[12:16] <seb128> ignore it
[12:16] <didrocks> seb128: ok, should we really do pessulus? we are in sync with debian and they should upload it soon
[12:17] <seb128> no
[12:17] <seb128> don't bother if they will do the update
[12:21] <seb128> didrocks, don't forget to get lunch!
[12:22] <didrocks> seb128: right, I should somethimes put a warning about that :)
[12:22] <didrocks> seb128: did you already have yours?
[12:22] <seb128> yes
[12:22] <seb128> I'm just back
[12:22] <seb128> coffee time
[12:23] <didrocks> can't get coffee has no more drip coffee :/
[12:23] <didrocks> and no Coka 0
[12:23] <seb128> :-(
[12:23]  * didrocks is running out of caffein things
[12:23] <seb128> time for shopping!
[12:23] <didrocks> :)
[12:23] <didrocks> yeah, I guess ^^
[12:26] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: did you push? do you want me to add the Makefile thing (so that I can still test the other patch refresh I've done in g-s-d)?
[12:27] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - i've not pushed yet. i'm just doing another small change so that the non-synchronous notifications correctly update existing notificatiosn
[12:27] <didrocks> chrisccoulson is unstoppable :)
[12:41] <didrocks> seb128: I would do the same for bug-buddy (as we don't activate it in any case), wait for few days to rebase our change in debian if it makes sense to you
[12:42] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[12:43] <seb128> didrocks, go for lunch, I will have a look to what remains to do while you eat
[12:43] <didrocks> seb128: ok, doing that :)
[12:43] <seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
[12:43] <didrocks> seb128: thanks!
[12:44] <kenvandine> seb128, the keyring bug is affecting gwibber and desktopcouch
[12:44] <seb128> kenvandine, ok
[12:44] <seb128> kenvandine, you are welcome to send a patch my way if you get one ;-)
[12:50] <pitti> seb128: I finally got the apport test suite to work again; I'll have a look at the current amd64 retracer crash
[12:50] <pitti> (it keeps crashing on the same bug)
[12:50] <kenvandine> pitti, i shaved 9 seconds off the gwibber-service startup time :)
[12:51] <kenvandine> down to .8s, including desktopcouch startup
[12:51] <pitti> kenvandine: nice! what did you do, rewrite it in vala? :-)
[12:51] <kenvandine> hehe
[12:51] <kenvandine> all the slowness was desktopcouch
[12:51] <seb128> pitti, rock on!
[12:52] <pitti> I fixed a couple of things, and now it should succeed again
[12:52]  * pitti goes to lunch while its running
[12:52] <kenvandine> that keyring bug is killing us though
[12:54] <seb128> we will get it fixed for lucid
[12:55] <asac> pitti: desktopers shouldnt be able to upload firefox
[13:04] <asac> pitti: ok talked to colin. understood why its in the seeds for lucid
[13:06] <mdeslaur> seb128: to fix dvd playback in lucid, I've updated the farsight plugins patch in gst-plugins-good0.10 with the newer plugins from gst-plugins-bad0.10 0.10.18
[13:06] <mdeslaur> seb128: bug 522897 and bug 522901
[13:06] <seb128> mdeslaur, hey
[13:06] <seb128> I noticed, good catch!
[13:06] <seb128> thanks a lot
[13:06] <mdeslaur> seb128: would you like to take a look, or can I upload?
[13:06] <seb128> how did you found it was due to that?
[13:06] <seb128> oh please upload
[13:07] <seb128> you got positive feedback on the 2 bugs
[13:07] <seb128> the 1 second delay one and the menus not working
[13:07] <mdeslaur> seb128: it wasn't me :) someone mentioned it in one of the bugs
[13:07] <mdeslaur> seb128: ok, I'll upload, thanks!
[13:07] <seb128> mdeslaur, thanks anyway
[13:07] <seb128> you rock
[13:09] <mdeslaur> hehe
[13:09]  * chrisccoulson curses for doing "exit 0" to go back to packaging branch without refreshing and unapplying my quilt patches
[13:10] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, it happened to me quite often. Don't bzr bd-do then
[13:11] <didrocks> cd ../build-area/..… && quilt refresh && cp <youpatch> ..
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - too late ;)
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> oh well, i probably won't do that again
[13:11]  * didrocks hugs chrisccoulson, same for me, most of the time :)
[13:11] <didrocks> just "grrr, bzr-do again"
[13:12] <didrocks> "oh crap, I could have save it…"
[13:12]  * chrisccoulson hugs didrocks
[13:18] <pitti> asac: upload> yes, it was more of a cheering than a request :)
[13:19] <didrocks> seb128: when you have some free time, can you can python-quickly-core and python-quickly-common, please?
[13:19] <seb128> didrocks, new?
[13:19] <didrocks> opsss, s/can/new
[13:19] <didrocks> :)
[13:19] <seb128> k
[13:19] <seb128> looking
[13:19] <seb128> do they need to go to main or universe?
[13:19] <seb128> didrocks, btw look at the recent g-c-c bugs
[13:20] <seb128> didrocks, there is one happening on theme switch which I think might be due to your recent change
[13:20] <seb128> it's a crash
[13:21] <didrocks> seb128: ok, looking at them
[13:21] <didrocks> seb128: they should be kept in universe
[13:24] <seb128> didrocks, newed
[13:24] <asac> pitti: ? cheering?
[13:24] <didrocks> seb128: sweet, thanks ;)
[13:24] <seb128> np
[13:25] <seb128> didrocks, btw your replaces version are weird
[13:25] <pitti> asac: like "great work, can't wait to see it in lucid"
[13:25] <seb128> didrocks, they are newer than your upload
[13:25] <asac> pitti: ah :) ok
[13:25] <seb128> asac, ie, stop slacking and blocking us :p
[13:25]  * seb128 hugs asac
[13:25] <asac> heh
[13:25] <didrocks> seb128: argh, that's because I planned to release 0.4 but rick pushed me to release 0.3.90 sooner and I didn't think about changing that piece :/
[13:26]  * asac hugs all desktopers and in particular seb128 ;)
[13:26]  * pitti hugs back asac
[13:27] <asac> .... and pitti of course :)
[13:35] <pitti> right
[13:35] <pitti> sorry, -EFOCUS
[13:40] <seb128> vuntz, hum, your gnome-2-28 webpage is buggy
[13:41] <seb128> vuntz, it seems it's listed GNOME 2.30 now
[13:42] <seb128> mvo, hey
[13:42] <seb128> mvo, how is the vte update going now?
[13:42] <seb128> mvo, do you need any help to test it or something?
[13:43] <mvo> seb128: no, still sitting in bzr, got caught up with software-center stuff
[13:43] <seb128> ok
[13:43] <seb128> do you think you will have a slot for it today?
[13:43] <mvo> yes
[13:44] <seb128> cool, thanks
[13:51] <mvo> hm, ./.libs/libvte.so: undefined reference to `vte_bg_root_surface'
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - ok, g-s-d is working and pushed
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> the only other patch i refreshed is the autotools one, so you might want to check the other if you haven't done already (although, it is built and working)
[14:05] <nigelb> njpatel, ping
[14:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: sweet! I refreshe the autotools one already, but as you added that to makefile.am back, yeah. the other are refreshed (see changelog ;)). I'll give them a try later
[14:06] <chrisccoulson> excellent, thanks
[14:06] <chrisccoulson> i'll leave that for you to upload anyway, i can't upload g-s-d ;)
[14:06] <njpatel> nigelb, pong
[14:07] <nigelb> njpatel, there was a pitivi version number bug that you had attached a patch.  I'm not sure if its worth a UIFe to get in.  thoughts?
[14:07] <njpatel> nigelb, I can't even remember it :/, was there a bug report?
[14:07] <nigelb> its bug 314885
[14:08] <nigelb> njpatel, lol, it was around a month back
[14:08] <nigelb> okay 3 months back
[14:08] <vuntz> seb128: yeah, side-effect of working on 2.30.0
[14:10] <seb128> vuntz, you think it will be changed back to watch 2.28 or should I workaround that locally in the scripts be use?
[14:10] <seb128> be -> we
[14:11] <njpatel> nigelb, ah right :) Yeah, I mean it would make PiTiVi look a bit nicer, and especially as it's on the CD now, that's probably important
[14:11] <vuntz> seb128: I'll fix it later
[14:11] <vuntz> but yeah, I'll fix it
[14:11] <seb128> vuntz, thank you!
[14:11] <seb128> vuntz, how are you otherwise?
[14:11] <nigelb> njpatel, you need a bunch of things then :D Uife, and a new debdiff
[14:11] <njpatel> nigelb, it shouldn't have translation consequences as I think pitivi just builds the project name + app-name on the fly
[14:11] <nigelb> no, but screenshots might have to be re-done
[14:11] <njpatel> nigelb, urgh, I don't have time right now to do that
[14:12] <njpatel> nigelb, I'll try and take a look later in the week, but I'm not 100% i'll be able to
[14:12] <nigelb> njpatel, do you want me to take over?
[14:12] <vuntz> seb128: good. Having fun with a .0 release :-)
[14:12] <chrisccoulson> pitti - xulrunner-1.9.1 can be demoted to universe can't it? (i can't see any xulrunner-1.9.1-dev reverse build-depends, and there are no binary rdepends in main now either)
[14:13] <seb128> vuntz, I noticed ;-)
[14:13] <njpatel> nigelb, if you can, that would be great, though I expect it's quite low priority :)
[14:13] <tseliot> pitti: any objections to this commit for lp:jockey? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/406516/ (it simplifies the code and improves driver detection)
[14:13] <nigelb> njpatel, I was reviewing patches, so I'll just work on getting this one in :)
[14:13] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oki, thanks :)
[14:14] <njpatel> nigelb, awesome, thanks!
[14:16] <seb128> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/551048
[14:17] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's on my plate, I saw that. I'm working on it :)
[14:17] <seb128> didrocks, excellent, thank you!
[14:17] <didrocks> seb128: y/w
[14:18] <pitti> tseliot: looks fine; so the reasoning is that if xorg.conf doesn't exist, it doesn't necessarily mean that the driver is disabled? (it might be auto-detected)
[14:18] <pitti> tseliot: if it still passes the test suite, fine for me
[14:19] <djsiegel1> kenvandine: hello
[14:19] <tseliot> pitti: we're not using autoloading for proprietary drivers, so it should be fine
[14:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, it's not on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - hmm, i'm not sure what's keeping it in then
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> it'd be nice to work that out so i can port that as a priority
[14:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, checkrdepends doesn't see anything
[14:21] <pitti> chrisccoulson: let me demote, and we'll see what it's complaining about in about an hour
[14:21] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks :)
[14:22] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i know what it is
[14:22] <chrisccoulson> it's still shipping a xulrunner-dev binary
[14:22] <pitti> ah, it might get confused about that one
[14:22] <chrisccoulson> which lots of stuff build-depends on
[14:22] <pitti> it's built by 1.9.2 as well now
[14:22] <pitti> demoted
[14:22] <chrisccoulson> ok, so we're probably ok to demote, and i need to update it to not provide that binary any more
[14:22] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[14:26] <tseliot> pitti: shall I start the backend separately when running tests (as in "tests/run")? Or is it dealt with automatically?
[14:26] <pitti> tseliot: the test suite cares for it (it uses the session bus for it)
[14:27] <tseliot> pitti: ok, only download_url() failed so things went well (and my manual tests went very well too)
[14:36] <james_w> seb128: if you want to ask me questions please do :-)
[14:36] <pedro_> seb128, bonjour, per your last comment on bug 544340 is that a wontfix for the lucid task?
[14:44] <seb128> hey james_w, pedro_
[14:45] <seb128> james_w, how are you?
[14:45] <seb128> pedro_, you can probably close the lucid task yes, I don't see how that will change there
[14:45] <james_w> seb128: good thanks, you?
[14:46] <seb128> james_w, good thanks
[14:46] <pedro_> seb128, roger that, thank you!
[14:46] <james_w> sorry I haven't been responsive, but I never saw any questions, only complaints I wasn't answering questions :-)
[14:46] <seb128> james_w, so we were wondering what is the best way to transition packaging bzr to the official way
[14:47] <james_w> so, easiest way, just drop your ~ubuntu-desktop branch and use the lp:ubuntu/* ones, but that may not achieve what you want?
[14:47] <seb128> james_w, the indicator-* are packaged in ~ubuntu-desktop right now
[14:48] <seb128> james_w, well, we loose history of what we did this way
[14:48] <seb128> and ted complained it breaks their daily builds, etc
[14:48] <seb128> since they merge back packaging from us usually
[14:48] <seb128> and we change the basis
[14:48] <seb128> ie the 2 don't have common history
[14:48] <seb128> I'm not sure what is the best
[14:48] <seb128> if we should try to move what we have now
[14:48] <james_w> right, that takes some more work then
[14:49] <seb128> or if they need to rework what they have
[14:49] <james_w> and is a bit beyond bzr's capabilities to do elegantly right now
[14:50] <tseliot> pitti: can I upload jockey when I'm done committing things in bzr? Or are there any further pending changes?
[14:50] <pitti> tseliot: no, everything is in bzr
[14:50] <tseliot> pitti: ok, thanks
[14:50] <seb128> james_w, what would you recommend doing in those cases?
[14:50] <seb128> james_w, just switching to the autoimport and tell dx to rebase their build on those
[14:50] <seb128> ?
[14:51] <james_w> seb128: let me ponder to see if I can come up with something that will work for you without having to solve the general problem.
[14:51] <seb128> james_w, thanks!
[14:51] <james_w> I realise that's not a very satisfactory answer though :-)
[14:51] <james_w> let me know if you are blocked on something so that I can prioritise it
[14:51] <seb128> that's fine, we don't have an hurry to switch anyway
[14:51] <seb128> I suggested waiting after lucid now
[14:52] <seb128> we though it would be easy and that we could try on some packages
[14:52] <seb128> but we did hit that issue
[14:52] <seb128> I'm fine dailying workflow changes to after uds
[14:52] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey
[14:52] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[14:52] <rickspencer3> good morning
[14:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, pitti: in how many hours is the meeting today?
[14:53] <rickspencer3> 2h37
[14:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, pitti: I'm being confused by how we follow dst changes
[14:53] <seb128> ok
[14:53] <seb128> so one hour later
[14:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, so our call is in 1h37?
[14:53] <rickspencer3> seb128, well, that's ambiguous
[14:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, if it's based on UTC, then  yes
[14:54] <rickspencer3> if it's based on Seattle time, then it's in 36 mins :)
[14:54] <seb128> lol
[14:55] <seb128> how do I know? ;-)
[14:55] <rickspencer3> didrocks, are you around
[14:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, just pick one ;)
[14:55] <didrocks> rickspencer3: hey, yes, I'm there :-)
[14:55] <rickspencer3> didrocks, did you have a totally epic day yesterday, or what?
[14:55] <didrocks> rickspencer3: why do you say that? :-)
[14:56] <didrocks> rickspencer3: because of flooding your ML with "fix released" in Quickly?
[14:56] <rickspencer3> well, I assume you used some kind of time traveling advice to get Quickly done and to all that Gnome uploading, and manage all those bugs
[14:57] <didrocks> rickspencer3: you discovered my secret :-)
[14:57] <seb128> didrocks, you flooded -changes too :p
[14:57]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[14:57]  * didrocks hugs seb128 back
[14:58] <vish> seb128: hi.. where does this bug need to be fixed? Bug #551018
[14:58] <vish> AFAIK , human theme isnt even installed in Lucid..
[14:58] <pitti> tseliot: \o/ thanks
[14:58] <seb128> vish, it's not?
[14:58] <seb128> vish, I've it installed
[14:59] <tseliot> pitti: two bugs (actually 3) should be gone now with my last commits :-)
[14:59] <seb128> rickspencer3, so let's say we keep the call 1 hour before the meeting?
[14:59] <vish> seb128: human icon theme? wasnt it moved to the universe?
[15:00] <seb128> rickspencer3, it makes less interruptions in my afternoon, I can focus on work and then stop for call & meeting
[15:00] <rickspencer3> seb128, wfm
[15:00] <seb128> + usually do some paperwork or activity report between
[15:00] <rickspencer3> sounds good, I'm all for not interrupting seb128
[15:00] <seb128> ;-)
[15:00] <vish> seb128: weird , that the human gtk theme installs the icon :s thanks for pointing that out
[15:00] <seb128> vish, "human-theme"
[15:01] <seb128> vish, /usr/share/pixmaps/ubuntu-screensaver.svg
[15:01] <vish> seb128: gotcha..
[15:01] <seb128> vish, I talked about that with kwwii some hours ago btw
[15:01] <vish> neat..
[15:08] <asac> Riddell: hola ... could you check: 537617 ? thats chromium video html5 support which was still missing
[15:10] <Riddell> asac: what do i need to do?
[15:11] <asac> Riddell: archive admin ;)
[15:12] <asac> NEWing basically
[15:12] <Riddell> right, will do
[15:12] <asac> coool
[15:36] <Keybuk> seb128: ok, I may be going mad here ...
[15:36] <Keybuk> but I'm convinced my terminals are sliiiiiightly transparent
[15:37] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, bug #548428
[15:37] <rickspencer3> thoughts on someone who can look into this?
[15:38] <pitti> rickspencer3: heh, I was just about to ask you about this
[15:38] <pitti> and was about to ct-rev
[15:38] <pitti> it's universe, after all?
[15:38] <seb128> Keybuk, right, that's the new lucid look I guess
[15:38] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, fta is quite knowledgable about chromium, he might be able to figure that out quicker than i can
[15:38] <rickspencer3> pitti, correct
[15:39] <Keybuk> seb128: how do I turn it off ?!
[15:39] <seb128> Keybuk, if you hint it changes settings of your it shouldn't talk to chrisccoulson
[15:39] <seb128> he did the changes there
[15:39] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, chromium-browser is a community package
[15:39] <pitti> rickspencer3, chrisccoulson: it's allegedly fixed in the daily PPA
[15:39] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk, at the moment, select "Transparent" and move the slider all the way to opaque
[15:39]  * Keybuk is using the Daily PPA and I still get that error
[15:39] <pitti> so, just needs a new upload, I figure
[15:39] <chrisccoulson> that will override the theme settings
[15:39] <Keybuk> chrisccoulson: I have "Solid Colour" selected already
[15:40] <rickspencer3> pitti, I ct-rev'd it
[15:40] <pitti> Keybuk: it's bug 549552 FYI
[15:40] <chrisccoulson> Keybuk, yeah, that currently means "Solid colour unless the theme specifies something else"
[15:40] <chrisccoulson> i intend to fix that before release though ;)
[15:45] <chrisccoulson> this might sound like a really obvious question, but do people experiencing the chromium issue have "TLS1.0" checked in the security sections of the preferences?
[15:45] <chrisccoulson> it seems to be working fine here
[15:46] <pitti> didrocks: "Forbid to autologin for user with encrypted home", is that still on track? or should we postpone it?
[15:46] <didrocks> pitti: still on track, just after the GNOME updates :)
[15:46] <didrocks> pitti: should be easy, just to find time to do it *sigh*
[15:46]  * pitti hugs didrocks
[15:47]  * didrocks hugs pitti
[15:47] <LaserJock> didrocks: any pressing UNE bugs?
[15:48] <didrocks> LaserJock: I'm on g-c-c bug. I have two that will be easy to fix for me as I've touched at the code quite recently. Let me have a look for others (one sec)
[15:49] <didrocks> LaserJock: bug #414353 but I'm afraid this one can be complex
[15:50] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, let me check
[15:50] <LaserJock> didrocks: well, I'll have a look and see if I can get anything out of it
[15:50] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, i'm sure that's not the issue really, i just checked the number of comments on the upstream bug now
[15:50] <rickspencer3> good, because I can't find the option ;)
[15:51] <didrocks> LaserJock: ok, this one should be easier if you want to play with another thing: bug #283914
[15:51] <didrocks> LaserJock: apart from that all seems on track, thanks to you and other awesome contributors :)
[15:51] <rickspencer3> LaserJock ftw!
[16:03] <LaserJock> kenvandine: hey, we're down to 13s cold start and ~6s if gwibber-service is running
[16:10] <seb128> waouh
[16:10] <seb128> that bug is weird
[16:10] <seb128> so my xorg not being back on return from user switch
[16:10] <seb128> it's not an hang or crash
[16:10] <seb128> it's the external screen being off
[16:10] <seb128> and I'm working on laptop docked with lid closed
[16:10] <seb128> I opened the lid to see if I could try changing brightness
[16:11] <didrocks> oh :/
[16:12] <seb128> hum
[16:12] <seb128> network changed when undocking too
[16:12] <seb128> did what I wrote went through?
[16:13] <didrocks> seb128: last sentence was: seb128 | I opened the lid to see if I could try changing brightness
[16:17] <pitti> seb128, didrocks, chrisccoulson: are you working on nautilus, or can I muck with the branch for a bit? (upgrade to 2a, and do a fix)
[16:17] <seb128> didrocks, ok that was it
[16:17] <didrocks> pitti: I'm not.
[16:17] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not doing anything with nautilus
[16:17] <seb128> pitti, go for it
[16:17]  * pitti turns the crank, thanks guys
[16:17] <pitti> I'm going to eliminate the "Unmount" menu entry
[16:17] <pitti> (bug 453072)
[16:18] <didrocks> pitti: so, we will keep Eject and Safely Remove, right?
[16:18] <pitti> yes
[16:18] <seb128> I can see users complaining ;-)
[16:18] <pitti> I don't see how to unify those under the current conditions
[16:18] <seb128> that's those sort of bugs where you never get everybody happy
[16:18] <pitti> most USB sticks are buggy and report that they have removable media
[16:18] <didrocks> seb128: I see newcomers afraid about this when doing my presentation and coming about usb stick  :)
[16:19] <pitti> and we don't known whether they lie
[16:19] <didrocks> even if all is explained in upstream bug report, they don't understand that
[16:19] <seb128> yeah, I don't say changing is wrong ;-)
[16:19] <seb128> I'm curious to know how other OSes deal with that issue though
[16:19] <pitti> but "unmount" is a non-intuitive geek option
[16:19] <pitti> it's still there on teh CLI and in palimpsest
[16:19] <pitti> seb128: windows doesn't have an "unmount"
[16:20] <didrocks> yeah, people wanting to just "unmount", can use "unmount" in CLI :)
[16:20] <pitti> but it has been discussed to death already
[16:20] <seb128> well safely remove and eject are similar too on usb key...
[16:20] <pitti> I think the "drop unmount and keep the two others" is a sensible approach for now, and has some broader consensus
[16:20] <pitti> seb128: right, see "buggy usb keys"
[16:21] <seb128> anyway go go go pitti
[16:21] <seb128> without unmount it's already much better :-)
[16:21] <pitti> right, and these two do make perfect sense for drives with removable media
[16:21] <pitti> (CD-ROMs, card readers, photo cameras, etc.)
[16:21] <didrocks> sure it will still be an improvment :-)
[16:21] <pitti> and it's easy enough to explain the difference between "remove the medium" and "remove the drive"
[16:22] <pitti> (much easier than "unmount" anyway :)
[16:22] <didrocks> heh ^^
[16:23] <fta> rickspencer3, should be fixed with the next upload (already visible in the -beta ppa if you want to test), i will upload to lucid once the -codecs-ffmpeg are approved (from NEW)
[16:23] <rickspencer3> thanks fta
[16:23]  * pitti imagines explaining that to his mother "erm, it makes the stick go away from the screen, so that you cannot use it any more"
[16:23] <rickspencer3> I had a feeling you were on it ;)
[16:23] <rickspencer3> fta, may I assign the bug to you so that folks see it's being handled?
[16:23] <fta> sure
[16:25] <fta> rickspencer3, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=chromium  (asac told me Riddell is on it)
[16:25] <chrisccoulson> ok, pitti, i commented on bug 549552 now. i had a think about it and i'm not sure if there is any other way of doing it properly
[16:26] <rickspencer3> fta, you are asking Riddell to upload it?
[16:27] <fta> rickspencer3, it's already uploaded, but stuck in the NEW queue (~4d). needs approval from an archive admin
[16:27] <Riddell> it's in New, I'll process it when I do my archive admin tasks in a bit
[16:27] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell, thanks fta
[16:28] <fta> once done, i will upload the new beta of chromium
[16:28] <fta> (shouldn't need NEW)
[16:30] <fta> jcastro, someone told me the chromium theme extension is making acid3 regress quite a lot, so it's most probably causing weird rendering everywhere
[16:31] <fta> jcastro, i meant, the Ubuntu light-themes scrollbars
[16:32] <jcastro> fta: it causes tons of sad tabs too. We should not recommend it to people
[16:32] <jcastro> fta: I will blog a warning after lunch
[16:32] <fta> thanks
[16:32] <fta> someone should file a bug too, sad is always bad
[16:32] <jcastro> fta: for like 2 weeks I thought it was just some upstream churn
[16:33] <jcastro> technoviking reported it to the extension author
[16:33] <fta> link?
[16:33] <jcastro> I think he contacted him, I'll find out.
[16:33] <jcastro> is there a bug tracker for extensions?
[16:34] <tseliot> pitti: isn't nvidia-common installed by default any more?
[16:34] <Technoviking> jcastro: He said it was a bug in webkit
[16:34] <Technoviking> I will find the bug report
[16:35] <jcastro> is "it's a webkit bug" the new "iz gtk boog"?
[16:35] <Technoviking> https://code.google.com/p/chrome-ubuntu-themes/issues/detail?id=1#c1
[16:40] <dobey> hmm
[16:42] <tseliot> no desktop meeting today?
[16:42] <dobey> pitti: ping. what's the plan wrt: #530605 btw?
[16:43] <didrocks> tseliot: it's in one hour (dailight saving) :) The strange thing is that my calendar didn't update to reflect the change…
[16:43] <chrisccoulson> bah, i hate daylight saving
[16:43] <tseliot> didrocks: ok, let's blame it on google calendar then
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> i don't know where i am now in relation to everybody else
[16:44] <didrocks> tseliot: at least, I know I'm not alone to have a shifted calendar, same for you chrisccoulson?
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, i think so
[16:44] <desrt> bryceh: so do you know anything about this failure to allocate X server memory?
[16:46] <pitti> re
[16:48] <pitti> chrisccoulson: replied to the bug
[16:48] <didrocks> re pitti. Same for you, a not updated google calendar regarding time shift?
[16:48] <pitti> tseliot: jockey-common recommends it, so it should be there
[16:49] <pitti> didrocks: what about gcal?
[16:49] <tseliot> pitti: ah, ok, I was looking for it in the wrong place (i.e. ubuntu-desktop)
[16:49] <pitti> dobey: well, "in progress"...
[16:49] <pitti> tseliot: it's a library-like package, we don't want to seed such things
[16:50] <pitti> didrocks: yes, the desktop team meeting is wrong
[16:50] <tseliot> pitti: yes, my memory is the only problem here :-P
[16:50] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, I was thinking that gcalc will update due to daylight saving
[16:50] <dobey> pitti: is it going to hold up beta2?
[16:50] <pitti> dobey: no, but final
[16:50] <dobey> pitti: ah, ok
[16:51] <pitti> dobey: (I still hope that it'll be fixed before, but it's not marked as a beta-2 blocker)
[16:51] <dobey> pitti: i think we'll be ok anyway. i just realized that my brain was being silly re: freeze dates
[16:51] <dobey> pitti: ah, well i've a fix for ubuntuone-client (which is why i set the in progress for us)
[16:52] <dobey> pitti: but my brain was totally thinking that the freeze for b2 was 00:00 today, instead of thursday :)
[16:53] <pitti> *phew* :)
[16:59] <didrocks> seb128: ah back ;) so, doing g-d-u, gnome-keyring, libgnome, gnome-screensaver and gnome-utils (I guess we should do some version mangling in gnome-keyring like 2.92.93.is.2.30.0?)
[17:00] <seb128> didrocks, why?
[17:00] <seb128> didrocks, let me gnome-keyring
[17:00] <didrocks> seb128: you released 2.92.92git20100322-0ubuntu1
[17:00] <didrocks> ok
[17:00] <seb128> didrocks, g-d-u has been done by pitti 2 days ago
[17:00] <seb128> didrocks, arg
[17:00] <seb128> didrocks, sorry about that
[17:00] <didrocks> seb128: 2.30.1 for g-d-u?
[17:00] <seb128> yes
[17:00] <pitti> yes
[17:01] <seb128> it was uploaded to fd.o
[17:01] <didrocks> oh ok :)
[17:01] <pitti> oh, is it
[17:01]  * pitti checks watch file
[17:01] <didrocks> so, I have gnome-screensaver and gnome-utils :)
[17:01] <pitti> oh, indeed
[17:01] <seb128> bah, the gnome-keyring typo sucks
[17:02] <pitti> urgh, 29 -> 92?
[17:02] <seb128> yes
[17:02] <seb128> well next cycle should be 3.0
[17:02] <pitti> fortunately the 2.x series will end in a forseeable future :)
[17:02] <didrocks> seb128: yeah ;)
[17:02] <pitti> 2.15 -> 2.51 would have been much worse
[17:05] <chrisccoulson> pitti - is there any way of finding out how many packages i've sponsored for somebody?
[17:06] <chrisccoulson> without taking up too much time ;)
[17:06] <pitti> I think dholbach used to have some stats
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks, i will ask him when he's around
[17:09] <james_w> chrisccoulson: I search site:lists.ubuntu.com with your two names, and ubuntu-changes tells you most of it. It's not exact though.
[17:13] <chrisccoulson> james_w - thanks, that seems to be good enough actually
[17:17] <vuntz> seb128: I fixed version-2-28
[17:17] <seb128> vuntz, thanks!
[17:17] <vuntz> seb128: (it won't get updated anymore, though)
[17:17] <seb128> vuntz, oh? :-(
[17:18] <seb128> vuntz, well I guess 2.28 will not change lot
[17:20] <vuntz> seb128: I can probably configure it to be updated for some time
[17:21] <vuntz> seb128: but it'd be safer if you ping me a bit later for this ;-)
[17:21] <seb128> vuntz, don't bother, but if you could get 2.30 to keep updating during next cycle that would be nicer ;-)
[17:21] <vuntz> (it's just a few more lines, but I'm focused on someting else)
[17:21] <seb128> vuntz, ok sure, no hurry
[17:21] <desrt> is there any way for me to get my hands on the .deb packages that were used to build the beta CD?
[17:21] <seb128> vuntz, it's not like 2.28 tarballs would we uploaded today
[17:21] <vuntz> seb128: version-2.30 will get updated until September
[17:21] <seb128> desrt, yes
[17:21] <vuntz> seb128: I actually did a few 2.28 tarballs ;-)
[17:21] <desrt> this X server crash is definitely a regression in [something] since the beta was released
[17:22] <desrt> since the beta itself is quite fine
[17:22] <seb128> desrt, what crash?
[17:22] <desrt> seb128: where are they?
[17:22] <seb128> desrt, I'm not sure you have all of those in a directory
[17:22] <desrt> seb128: i get an error about "unabel to allocate memory" when i do xrandr
[17:22] <desrt> and X quits
[17:22] <seb128> but you have archives on launchpad for all deb published to ubuntu
[17:23] <desrt> (the error goes into the X server log)
[17:23] <desrt> well
[17:23] <desrt> i suspect it will either be the intel driver or the kernel
[17:23] <seb128> desrt, try maybe asking #ubuntu-x if the bug is known before
[17:24] <seb128> desrt, well
[17:24] <kenvandine> LaserJock, great, that is a good improvement... still wish it was faster for you
[17:24] <seb128> desrt, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+changelog
[17:24] <desrt> right... that's nice of course
[17:24] <seb128> desrt, you can click on any version and download the deb
[17:24] <desrt> but i want to be able to install the .deb from the beta CD
[17:24] <desrt> oh.
[17:24] <kenvandine> LaserJock, my netbook is 3s for client, service and desktopcouch to start
[17:24] <desrt> ok.  that's quite perfect :)
[17:25] <seb128> desrt, it works the same for any source
[17:25] <desrt> i can see diffs too
[17:25] <desrt> nice
[17:25] <seb128> to get debs you click on the version
[17:25] <desrt> ah.  librarian
[17:25] <seb128> than on the arch you use
[17:25] <desrt> didn't it used to be called the graveyard or something? :)
[17:25] <seb128> and those are listed
[17:25] <seb128> that's debian
[17:25] <desrt> ah
[17:25] <seb128> we use a library there ;-)
[17:26]  * desrt makes a list of package versions on the liveCD and reboots back into his shattered world
[17:26] <seb128> session restart brb
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> excellent, my new passport has just arrived
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> i'm glad that arrived in time for UDS ;)
[17:27] <kenvandine> that reminds me... i should double check when mine expires
[17:27] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: you need a passport for uds-m? isn't it in europe? :)
[17:27] <kenvandine> yay... got another year :)
[17:28] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, yes, i probably should still have a passport though, and i don't think i'd get on a flight out of the UK without one
[17:28] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, mine expired at the start of may ;)
[17:30] <chrisccoulson> that only took a few weeks for them to turn that around anyway, i was a bit concerned that i wouldn't get it in time ;)
[17:31] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: you don't need one for Brussels :)
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryceh, ccheney, chrisccoulson, didrocks, kenvandine, Nafai, pitti, RAOF, Riddell, seb128, tseliot, tkamppeter meeting time, right?
[17:32] <tkamppeter> hi
[17:32] <pitti> right
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> i think so ;)
[17:32]  * kenvandine waves
[17:32] <didrocks> hey
[17:32] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-30
[17:32] <ArneGoetje> o/
[17:32] <Riddell> afternoon
[17:32] <kenvandine> i might need to duck out at some point
[17:32]  * tseliot waves
[17:32] <seb128> hey
[17:32] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, ack
[17:33] <rickspencer3> shall we start with kenvandine and partner update?
[17:33] <kenvandine> ok
[17:33] <kenvandine> OLS has a couple FFE still in the pipe, i think they are expected to land today if approved
[17:34] <kenvandine> i haven't looked at the status today, they are on the wiki
[17:34] <kenvandine> and there was a request for a UIF exception of u1 client, not sure if that will happen or not
[17:34] <kenvandine> music store beta is going well, and there will be libu1 and rb plugin bug fix releases today'ish
[17:35] <kenvandine> DX seems pretty on track, nothing major coming
[17:35] <kenvandine> i think that is it
[17:35] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I've seen a few UI tweaks the last few days from Dx
[17:35] <rickspencer3> is that about done, or are there more changes to expect?
[17:35] <kenvandine> i think that was it
[17:35] <kenvandine> which was mostly just reverting the strings back, i think
[17:35] <kenvandine> and there is the screensaver thing which we patched
[17:35] <seb128> the indicator-message strings change too
[17:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, little pips next to status in Me Menu for instance
[17:36] <seb128> to say "configuring..." now
[17:36] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah, that isn't changing again though right?
[17:36] <seb128> before starting the application for the first ime
[17:36] <seb128> no, but it's new from this week
[17:36]  * kenvandine still thinks that work flow is a little confusing 
[17:36] <seb128> or previous week now rather
[17:36] <kenvandine> if you had been running it already
[17:36] <kenvandine> but i guess a short hump to get over
[17:36] <seb128> right, I was a bit surprised to see that landing now
[17:36] <seb128> especially that the logic is wrong
[17:37] <seb128> anyway not a meeting subject
[17:37] <kenvandine> ok, moving on
[17:37]  * kenvandine hands mic back
[17:37]  * rickspencer3 hands mic to Riddel
[17:37] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu update?
[17:37] <Riddell>  * new logo decided http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/kubuntu-new-logo.png needs Design Team to tidy up
[17:37] <Riddell>  * KDE 4.4.2 packaged and uploaded to lucid, compiling away now
[17:37] <Riddell>  * KOffice 2.1.2 packaged and uploaded
[17:37] <Riddell>  * http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 milestoned bugs down to 16
[17:38] <rickspencer3> yeah!
[17:38] <rickspencer3> Riddell, can I just say that you are doing an awesome job with Kubuntu and Kubuntu team!
[17:38] <rickspencer3> thanks much
[17:38] <Riddell> two high priority bugs, akonadi being broken on upgrades and hal not mounting disks
[17:38] <Riddell> both need some more investigation but will probably be after beta 2
[17:39] <Riddell> why thank you rickspencer3
[17:39] <pitti> I followed up to the hal one, but I don't understand the problem yet
[17:39] <pitti> I had one suspicion, but that wasn't it
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> kubuntu still uses hal for mounting?
[17:39] <Riddell> yes
[17:39] <pitti> hal doesn't require any privileges for mounting internal drives these days
[17:40] <pitti> but at least in karmic kde actually used a fancy kdesu wrapper, AFAIR
[17:40] <rickspencer3> moving on?
[17:40] <rickspencer3> oops, sorry, didn't mean to interupt
[17:40] <Riddell> rickspencer3: yes we'll discuss later
[17:40] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:41] <rickspencer3> seb128 brought up the next topic, related to bugs for 10.04 stable updates
[17:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, did I get that right?
[17:41] <seb128> yes
[17:41] <seb128> we have a list of rc bugs for lucid now
[17:41] <seb128> but I'm wondering if we want to start building a list of bugs we want to fix in lucid updates if not in lucid
[17:41] <seb128> and how we build this list
[17:41] <pitti> wouldn't that be the same list, by and large?
[17:41] <seb128> and how much we want to have on it
[17:42] <pitti> i. e. every bug which is targetted to lucid becomes an SRU target after release
[17:42] <seb128> pitti, well discussion from yesterday hint that rickspencer3 want the > High list driven to 0 quickly
[17:42] <pitti> well, "potential" target
[17:42] <seb128> so where do we put the "lucid update" bugs
[17:42] <pitti> I agree, because those are release blockers
[17:42] <seb128> I think we have too many mediums
[17:42] <seb128> they don't all quality for it
[17:42] <seb128> qualify
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> i thought release blockers were "high" and milestoned too?
[17:43] <pitti> seb128: then we can wontfix them for lucid post-release
[17:43] <chrisccoulson> can we not change the milestone for ones we want to SRU to "lucid-updates"?
[17:43] <pitti> seb128: for the "potential" side, I think we should go over the list around release time and wontfix the ones which aren't appropriate for SRU
[17:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine with that, I just want to agree on a common way to mark those
[17:43] <pitti> chrisccoulson: YES WE CAN!
[17:43] <pitti> *cough* :)
[17:43] <seb128> I don't like the wontfixing
[17:43] <pitti> indeed, I think that's an appropriate milestone
[17:43] <chrisccoulson> that's ok then :)
[17:44] <seb128> users tend to take that a slap in the face
[17:44] <pitti> but bugs which aren't SRU targets are better "wontfix"ed after release
[17:44] <seb128> and get angry and start arguing
[17:44] <rickspencer3> seb128, well, you only won't fix the bug task
[17:44] <rickspencer3> not the whole bug
[17:44] <pitti> we won't "wontfix" the bug, just the lucid target
[17:44] <seb128> rickspencer3, we don't have lucid+1 in launchpad now
[17:44] <seb128> so wontfixing == closing
[17:45] <seb128> we can't open a lucid+1 task
[17:45] <rickspencer3> can we milestone it "later" for now?
[17:45] <seb128> pitti, well that's equivalent
[17:45] <pitti> seb128: wontfix after release -> not close
[17:45] <seb128> pitti, what task stay open?
[17:45] <ArneGoetje> how about changing the milestone to 'later'?
[17:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i think if you "won't fix" all of the targetted tasks, then launchpad automatically creates an untargetted task (which you can keep open)
[17:45] <seb128> pitti, right, "after release"
[17:45] <pitti> seb128: well, it works before the release as well (LP will create a "floating" task)
[17:46] <seb128> oh ok, I didn't try that recently
[17:46] <seb128> it used to not work
[17:46] <pitti> but I was saying that we should do it around release time, becuase before that we can still potentially fix them
[17:46] <pitti> seb128: it works fine
[17:46] <seb128> good
[17:46] <seb128> so seems people agree on not changing anything
[17:46] <rickspencer3> seb128, so what do you think of pitti's proposal that we do this after final freeze?
[17:47] <seb128> and revisit our target of opportunity list after lucid hard freeze
[17:47] <rickspencer3> rather try to fix the ones we can between now and then?
[17:47] <seb128> and close or milestone to .1?
[17:47] <rickspencer3> I'm not too worries about specifically how we adjust the bug task properties, so much as:
[17:47] <rickspencer3> 1. when do we start building the list
[17:48] <rickspencer3> 2. what is the logic for what goes into such a list
[17:48] <rickspencer3>  
[17:48] <rickspencer3> seb128, thoughts about those questions?
[17:48] <seb128> well, seems 1. is "we already have it"
[17:48] <seb128> it's our "100 bugs"
[17:48] <seb128> or whatever we call those target or opportunity list
[17:48] <seb128> ie all the team assigned with lucid tasks < high
[17:48] <rickspencer3> interesting
[17:49] <seb128> well that's what I got from this discussion
[17:49] <seb128> pitti, ^ right?
[17:49] <rickspencer3> so basically, if it's targeted to Lucid, we are committed to fixing it in *some* version of 10.04
[17:49] <seb128> so just keep adding things there
[17:49] <pitti> seb128: correct
[17:49] <seb128> and triage the list at lucid time
[17:49] <seb128> close the things we will not change in lucid
[17:49] <seb128> and milestone the ones we want to sru for .1
[17:49] <seb128> rickspencer3, well, we will revisit the list at lucid hard freeze time
[17:49] <seb128> and wontfix those we drop
[17:49] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:49] <rickspencer3> makes sense to me
[17:49] <pitti> sounds like a plan to me
[17:49] <seb128> works for everybody?
[17:50] <seb128> ok good
[17:50] <seb128> rickspencer3, I think we have an agreement there
[17:50] <rickspencer3> kewl
[17:50] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[17:51] <rickspencer3> ok, so next topic is blueprints for 10.10
[17:51] <rickspencer3> I'm not setting any deadline yet, but I know some folks are starting to think about this
[17:51] <rickspencer3> so I started an informal list here:
[17:51] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintList
[17:52] <rickspencer3> I put on topics that have come out of conversations I've already had with folks, some community, but mostly other Canonical teams
[17:52] <rickspencer3> If you want to, you can feel free to use this as a scratch pad too
[17:53] <rickspencer3> but also, thought you might want to see what I am thinking about as well
[17:53] <rickspencer3> I know that bryceh already has a tight list of blueprints and sessions that he wants to do with RAOF for xorg
[17:53] <rickspencer3> so that's that topic, unless there are questions
[17:54]  * didrocks will add his note from his thought too :)
[17:54] <rickspencer3> k
[17:55] <rickspencer3> so next is release status
[17:55]  * rickspencer3 hands mic to pitti
[17:55] <pitti> so, first a look at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
[17:55] <pitti> seems we are well within the plan
[17:55] <pitti> and the remaining bits don't look scary any more
[17:55] <pitti> good job!
[17:55] <kenvandine> :)
[17:55] <pitti> which extends to the RC bug list
[17:55] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
[17:56] <pitti> (RC bug list updated yesterday)
[17:56] <pitti> I already caught up with chrisccoulson about his bugs, and they seem on track
[17:56] <pitti> the ones that worry me now are bug 507148 and bug 491210 from the X.org/kernel side
[17:56] <pitti> they are both in kernel land for now, but bryceh, do you happen to know whether there's hope for them?
[17:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you know if bug 447431 is still relevant?
[17:57] <pitti> other than those three, I'm fairly impressed with our progress, good work team!
[17:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yes, i'm going to get back to that bug this week
[17:58] <seb128> we get a lot of crashes "../../src/xcb_io.c:385: _XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed."
[17:58] <seb128> in random softwares
[17:58] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i just saw one like that reported against firefox
[17:58] <seb128> does anybody known if that's an issue in the xorg stack?
[17:58] <pitti> is there a bug for it which should be on the RC radar?
[17:59] <seb128> that's what I'm asking there
[17:59] <seb128> I get a crash every day at least on GNOME components with the "../../src/xcb_io.c:385: _XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed." error in the title
[17:59] <seb128> but it's never in the same softwares
[17:59] <tseliot> tjaalton: does it ring a bell? ^^
[17:59] <chrisccoulson> pitti / seb128 - bug 507062
[17:59] <chrisccoulson> but that was already closed as fixed
[18:00] <seb128> how do we deal with all the duplicates?
[18:00] <seb128> reopen that one and duplicate everything?
[18:00] <pitti> sounds sensible
[18:00] <seb128> ok, will do that
[18:01] <pitti> seb128: can you please target it to lucid, too?
[18:01] <seb128> will do
[18:01] <pitti> thanks
[18:01] <pitti> did anyone else notice something bug related which we shoudl track?
[18:01] <rickspencer3> pitti, I've noticed a decrease in the total # of RC bugs
[18:01] <pitti> or has concerns about this WIs/assigned bugs?
[18:01] <rickspencer3> and that most people with an RC bug have but 1 bug
[18:01] <rickspencer3> this seems promising to me
[18:01] <pitti> rickspencer3: don't worry, we won't run out of work anytime soon :)
[18:01] <rickspencer3> am I seeing the world thorugh rose colored glasses
[18:01] <rickspencer3> ?
[18:01] <rickspencer3> lol
[18:02] <pitti> but yes, getting the RC list down is great
[18:02] <didrocks> rickspencer3: aubergine one :)
[18:02] <seb128> urg
[18:02] <rickspencer3> ok, beta 2 will be bring a crush of RC bugs
[18:02]  * rickspencer3 kicks didrocks
[18:02] <didrocks> *ouch*
[18:02] <rickspencer3> (nice one didrocks)
[18:02] <rickspencer3> pitti, that was it for me
[18:02] <seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=_XAllocID
[18:03] <pitti> </release status sermon> (still interested in feedback about the two X.org driver failures, though)
[18:03] <seb128> I'm too lazy to dup those 67 crashes I think
[18:03] <seb128> does anybody has a script for that?
[18:03] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that would create a lot of bug spam ;)
[18:03] <rickspencer3> seb128, you can use bughugger for that!
[18:03] <pitti> seb128: lp-set-dup
[18:03] <pitti> seb128: but we should also have a bug pattern for that, I'll write one
[18:03] <seb128> thank
[18:03] <rickspencer3> that sounds great
[18:04] <rickspencer3> pitti, shall we adjourn the meeting?
[18:04] <pitti> seb128: use ctrl+mouse selection to get the list of numbers, and call lp-set-dup on it with the master bug being first
[18:04] <pitti> rickspencer3: WFM
[18:04] <pitti> AOB?
[18:04] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[18:04] <rickspencer3> AOB?
[18:04] <pitti> "any other business"
[18:04] <pitti> sorry
[18:04] <rickspencer3> oh, rgiht
[18:04] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[18:04] <rickspencer3> was having a parsing error
[18:04]  * pitti though it was fairly common in meetings
[18:05] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:05] <seb128> no
[18:05] <didrocks> neither do I :)
[18:05] <rickspencer3> pitti, the universe of what I don't know is almost infinitely larger than the universe of what I do know
[18:05] <rickspencer3> I am at peace with this ;)
[18:05] <pitti> which is true for everyone :)
[18:05] <rickspencer3> ok, lets call it wrap, give everyone a bit of time back
[18:06] <pitti> but fortunately we all know different parts of the universe :)
[18:08] <pitti> wAssertionMessage: indicator-applet: ../../src/xcb_io.c :385 : _XAllocID: L'assertion « ret != inval_id » a échoué.
[18:08] <pitti> translating assertion messages is a little overzealous..
[18:09] <seb128> well somebody marked the string to translate...
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> to confuse things even more, that assertion comes from xlib
[18:09] <seb128> but yeah
[18:09] <chrisccoulson> and not libxcb
[18:09] <seb128> pedro_, there?
[18:10] <pedro_> seb128, yup here
[18:10] <seb128> pedro_, do you think you could try to duplicate https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=_XAllocID of bug #507062 for us?
[18:10] <seb128> pedro_, <pitti> seb128: use ctrl+mouse selection to get the list of numbers, and call lp-set-dup on it with the master bug being first
[18:11] <pedro_> seb128, yes i'll take care of that
[18:11] <pitti> seb128: are you going to reopen the bug or shall I?
[18:11] <seb128> pitti, I did it
[18:12] <seb128> pitti, assigned to our team as high too
[18:12] <seb128> it has over 80 duplicates all over the desktop
[18:13] <seb128> pedro_, thanks!
[18:13]  * seb128 hugs pedro_
[18:14]  * pedro_ hugs seb128 back
[18:14] <pedro_> seb128, you're welcome ;-)
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i reassigned it to libx11 too
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> which is where the assertion comes from
[18:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks!
[18:18] <kenvandine> damn, desktopcouch and ubuntuone pegging my CPU has really made my battery life suck
[18:20] <pitti> seb128: argh, but patterns currently do not support these kinds of cross-package bugs; I'll add that to apport, but I need to leave for supermarket & dinner first
[18:20] <seb128> pitti, no hurry, have fun
[18:20]  * pitti uploads nau-"unmount-b-gone"-tilus
[18:21]  * kenvandine heads out again
[18:32] <LaserJock> kenvandine: 3s! :(
[18:33] <kenvandine> LaserJock, yeah, i wish i know why it was so much slower on your netbook
[18:33] <kenvandine> your's seems to be the extreme case
[18:33] <LaserJock> I still get 6s just for warm start
[18:33] <kenvandine> weird, same processor as me
[18:33] <LaserJock> yeah, it's a pretty standard netbook
[18:34] <kenvandine> and my disk seems pretty slow
[18:34] <LaserJock> I wonder if I wipe out the config, settings and start over if it would help
[18:35] <LaserJock> it didn't seem like my DB was huge, in fact it was pretty small if I remember right
[18:52] <fta> Riddell, what's the reason for the reject?
[18:52] <Riddell> fta: just e-mailed
[18:52] <Riddell> ffmpeg-mt/libavcodec/jrevdct.c
[18:53] <Riddell> term 2 needs to be in debian/copyright
[18:53] <Riddell> or better, include the whole licence
[18:54] <fta> Riddell, i've already listed that file, so i just need to add the whole wording, right?
[18:55] <didrocks> time for dinner
[18:55] <Riddell> fta: it needs at least the sentence required in term (2), but I'd just include the whole licence for clarity
[18:55] <fta> ok, thanks
[19:00] <fta> Riddell, will that do? http://paste.ubuntu.com/406648/
[19:01] <Riddell> fta: yes good with me
[19:06] <james_w> baptistemm: hi, it seems you didn't branch off lp:ubuntu/bluez to do your apport work, which means I can't merge it in directly
[19:10] <fta> Riddell, just re-uploaded
[19:10] <Riddell> fta: let me see if I can find something wrong with it this time :)
[19:11] <baptistemm> james_w, ah sorry, I will just provide a patch in a bug report then
[19:12] <james_w> baptistemm: that's ok, I'm merging it with a trick
[19:12] <james_w> baptistemm: I just wondered if there was a particular reason such as some incorrect documentation I should fix?
[19:14] <baptistemm> james_w, the branch lp:ubuntu/bluez is not up to date : /
[19:14] <james_w> ah, ok
[19:15] <baptistemm> normlay you just have to take source_bluez.py and drop in debian/ to update the previous version
[19:15] <baptistemm> normally
[19:16] <baptistemm> sorry for the additional work :/
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> mvo - does synaptic spawn more than one thread that uses xlib?
[19:18] <mvo> chrisccoulson: yes, two processes
[19:18] <pitti> I'm off IRC for a while for gdm debugging, round 23
[19:18] <mvo> chrisccoulson: well, sort of, the second is really just the vte terminal
[19:19] <chrisccoulson> mvo - and the vte terminal is in a separate thread (not just another process)?
[19:19] <mvo> didrocks, kenvandine: I will do a empathy upload to fix some upgrade issues, do you have anything pending
[19:19] <chrisccoulson> (so they're sharing data)
[19:19] <mvo> chrisccoulson: I need to look at the code but I think its sepearte processes
[19:19] <chrisccoulson> ah, that's ok then
[19:19] <mvo> chrisccoulson: I'm not 100% positive on this
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i was just trying to come up with ideas about bug 507062
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> i've seen one way it will crash, but that would only be cause by more than one thread
[19:21] <kenvandine> mvo, nope
[19:22] <mvo> chrisccoulson: can you reproduce it?
[19:22] <mvo> chrisccoulson: the crash I mean?
[19:22] <chrisccoulson> mvo - i can't, but i've just been looking at the xlib code, and i spotted one way it can crash
[19:22] <chrisccoulson> but that would only happen if more than one thread were allocating resources without having called XInitThreads
[19:23] <mvo> chrisccoulson: hm, does that mean I can just call gdk_threads_init () and the bug goes away ;) ?
[19:24] <chrisccoulson> mvo - well, i grepped the gtk source code, and didn't see a call to XInitThreads at all
[19:24] <chrisccoulson> i'm wondering if that's the issue :-/
[19:24] <chrisccoulson> but i don't know this code well enough to have an opinion yet ;)
[19:25] <mvo> :)
[19:25] <mvo> I'm too busy just now to have a look, sorry :(
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> mvo - that's ok
[19:26] <mvo> if you have more clues or a way to reproduce I will love to hear about it
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> i have synaptic in gdb now to try and find out ;)
[19:27] <davmor2> what the package name for palimpsest please
[19:27] <chrisccoulson> gnome-disk-utility
[19:27] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: thanks
[19:30]  * mvo hugs chrisccoulson
[19:30] <didrocks> mvo: nothing on track for me for empathy
[19:30]  * chrisccoulson hugs mvo
[19:31] <seb128> didrocks, track for empathy?
[19:31] <mvo> didrocks: thanks, uploaded
[19:32] <didrocks> seb128: "mvo | didrocks, kenvandine: I will do a empathy upload to fix some upgrade issues, do you have anything pending"
[19:32] <mvo> seb128: I just asked if I can upload away
[19:32] <didrocks> mvo: thanks :)
[19:32] <seb128> mvo, upload vte? ;-)
[19:32]  * seb128 hides
[19:32] <mvo> it fails to build!
[19:32]  * mvo kicks it
[19:32] <mvo> and before that it takes *ages* to get to the point where it fails
[19:32] <mvo> *grumpf*
[19:33] <seb128> :-(
[19:33] <mvo> seb128: but yearh, still on my list :)
[19:33] <seb128> "dpkg-deb: control directory has bad permissions 700 (must be >=0755 and <=0775)"
[19:33] <seb128> wth armel?
[19:33] <mvo> ccheney: hi, re OOo and the corrupted db failure. from what i understand how to fix it is inconclusive (is that the right word?)
[19:33] <mvo> armel …
[19:39] <chrisccoulson> mvo - ok, synaptic doesn't appear to be using xlib from multiple threads
[19:39] <chrisccoulson> so, the other thing that might make it crash in this way is running out of XID's
[19:39] <james_w> baptistemm: it's up to date now, thanks for the prod
[19:39] <baptistemm> thanks to you rather
[19:44] <Riddell> fta: accepted!
[19:50] <baptistemm> what is the workflow to use when packaging with bzr ?
[19:51] <baptistemm> imagine a branch already exist with upstream sources and packaging, and a new upstream arises
[19:51] <Nafai> This is a question I have as well :)
[19:52] <LaserJock> any couchdb experts around?
[19:53] <james_w> baptistemm: "bzr merge-upstream --version 1.1 http://example.org/example-1.1.tar.gz" is the basis
[19:54] <baptistemm> james_w, doing that in the bzr repository ?
[19:54] <james_w> baptistemm: yeah
[19:54] <james_w> LaserJock: do I need to point you to !ask? :-)
[19:54] <baptistemm> merge-upstream is a plugin ?
[19:54] <james_w> it's in the bzr-builddeb package
[19:54] <baptistemm> ah okay, thanks , I'll try to use that workflow
[19:58] <fta> Riddell, thanks!!
[20:02] <LaserJock> james_w: well, sometimes I prefer to keep my stupid questions to myself until I know there's a finite probability that somebody can actually help ;-)
[20:02] <LaserJock> james_w: but point taken
[20:03] <LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to delete a database from desktop-couch
[20:03] <james_w> using the web ui, or python, or?
[20:03] <LaserJock> I tried using the web UI, which seemed to work, except the next time I opened the app it magically recreated  it
[20:04] <james_w> yes, it will create the db if it doesn't find it there
[20:04] <james_w> did it put all the data back, or did it appear to revert it?
[20:04] <LaserJock> pulled in all the data again I think
[20:04] <LaserJock> this is with gwibber
[20:04] <LaserJock> I removed the DBs
[20:04] <james_w> and what would you like it to do?
[20:05] <LaserJock> and then when I reopen gwibber it recreates everything
[20:05] <LaserJock> I went to actually delete everything
[20:05] <LaserJock> *want
[20:05] <james_w> and not use gwibber?
[20:05] <LaserJock> no
[20:05] <LaserJock> I'm trying to start over
[20:05] <LaserJock> to do some testing
[20:05] <james_w> it sounds like you did to me
[20:05] <LaserJock> fresh config, etc.
[20:06] <LaserJock> no, it recreated everything I already had
[20:06] <james_w> unless you are talking about account settings as well
[20:06] <LaserJock> yes
[20:06] <james_w> did you delete all the dbs?
[20:06] <LaserJock> everything
[20:06] <LaserJock> yep
[20:07] <james_w> then I would expect upgrade code that sees you have an empty desktopcouch and imports your settings from the old config file/gconf/whatever it was
[20:07] <LaserJock> it's gone
[20:07] <LaserJock> I removed that
[20:07] <LaserJock> I got rid of anything in ~/ that is gwibber-related
[20:08] <LaserJock> I guess I shouldn't complain too much about an app keeping my settings *too* well, but it's making it difficult to do testing
[20:09] <james_w> including from gconf?
[20:09] <LaserJock> yes
[20:10] <LaserJock> I don't know if there's some sort of couchdb flush I can do for it to not remember everything
[20:10] <james_w> then either you missed something, the settings are stored on some other machine, or you have a phantom gwibber
[20:10] <james_w> you can compact, but I don't think that will make a differnece
[20:15] <LaserJock> ah, I think I might have had a gwibber-service process running still
[20:24] <mvo> seb128: hm, medium funny, its just the udeb that fails to build for whatever reason in vte - do we care about that (I guess we do)
[20:24] <LaserJock> nope
[20:24] <LaserJock> it's recreating my entire DB again
[20:24]  * LaserJock kicks couchdb and does some other work for a while
[20:28] <seb128> mvo, I would guess we do yes
[20:28] <seb128> mvo, let's see tomorrow, we still have time before beta2
[20:28]  * pitti silently sighs about libxklavier
[20:29] <mvo> seb128: I give it some more minutes and then call for super-hero help (i.e. *you*)
[20:29] <ccheney> mvo: yea, the only clear way to fix it is to actually uninstall then reinstall, its not clear that even just apt-get install --reinstall is enough
[20:29] <ccheney> mvo: and if i understood rene even a full reinstall if there is corruption might carry corruption on for a users profile
[20:29] <dobey> pitti: i heard you :)
[20:29] <mvo> ccheney: that is scary
[20:30] <mvo> ccheney: so Conflicts: Replaces: Provides: openoffice.org on abiword and gnumeric ;) ?
[20:30] <ccheney> mvo: thats why i suggested possibly we could demote this to a release note and figure out some way to do automated bug triaging for it (if possible)
[20:30] <ccheney> mvo: yea bug is really nasty :-(
[20:30] <mvo> I just that sucks mightly, we can not release it like this and tell people "oh, bad luck, sorry"
[20:30] <mvo> we have to fix it *somehow*
[20:31] <mvo> its a LTS afterall
[20:31] <mvo> and OOo is super important to many people
[20:31] <dobey> LaserJock: is it set up to sync to ubuntuone or another machine on your network?
[20:31] <ccheney> mvo: well the issue is that if the db files are corrupted you can fix the system ones by fully reinstalling the packages, to fix the user ones requires (i think) reinstalling any oxt files they added themselves
[20:31] <seb128> mvo, k
[20:32] <seb128> mvo, usually those are a missing -llib
[20:32] <seb128> mvo, or a -L...
[20:32] <mvo> what is a oxt file?
[20:32] <ccheney> mvo: so i don't think there really is a way to fix it from a packaging standpoint
[20:32] <ccheney> mvo: openoffice extension
[20:32] <mvo> (sorry, I'm totally ignorant when it comes to OOo)
[20:32] <ccheney> mvo: like a firefox plugin
[20:32] <mvo> and people install them just like firefox plugins?
[20:32] <mvo> amazing
[20:32] <ccheney> mvo: yea
[20:33] <ccheney> mvo: tools->extension manager
[20:33] <ccheney> mvo: an oxt is a specially laid out zip file
[20:33] <mvo> interessting. and that stuff lives in ~/.openoffice (or a similar dir?)
[20:34] <ccheney> mvo: yea ~/.openoffice.org/3/
[20:34] <LaserJock> dobey: no, I don't use U1 and this is the only Linux machine on the network
[20:35] <dobey> LaserJock: then i guess the answer is "are you sure you deleted it?" :)
[20:36] <LaserJock> dobey: 1) the web UI says yes and 2) the DB files no longer exist
[20:36] <LaserJock> so they must be also backed up or something somewhere else
[20:36] <mvo> ccheney: ok. thanks. that is good and useful information
[20:37] <LaserJock> I guess I'll try removing everything, then rebooting, and trying again just in case they're in /tmp or something
[20:38] <dobey> LaserJock: make sure ALL couchdb/beam/heart processes are stopped. do desktopcouch-start, delete the db, do desktopcouch-stop, verify the dbs are gone, then try running gwibber again
[20:38] <LaserJock> ah, ok
[20:38] <dobey> LaserJock: and if you ask in #ubuntuone you might be able to get more help on it :)
[20:39] <LaserJock> dobey: ok, I would have thought that would have been specifically about U1, but I guess they would know a lot about couchdb
[20:40] <dobey> LaserJock: where it's where all the developers are... :)
[21:29] <pitti> ok, that should make keyboard variants in gdm much happer
[21:29] <pitti> happier
[21:30] <pitti> with this bugs -= 1 it's time to wave goodnight
[21:30] <didrocks> pitti: enjoy  ;)
[21:37] <seb128> 'night pitti
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> good night pitti
[22:04] <al-maisan>  /msg NickServ identify
[22:05] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, you do work with the debian maintainer of transmission sometimes don't you?
[22:09] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: yes - I do send him patches but we don't really talk as he's not on any irc :)
[22:09] <chrisccoulson> ah,that's ok. thanks
[22:12] <didrocks> time to wave goodnight
[22:33] <RAOF> Good morning all.
[22:34] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[22:35] <Riddell> Wednesday already?  how's it looking?
[22:35]  * LaserJock takes desktopcouch out to the woodshed
[22:36] <RAOF> Wednesday is looking grey again.  Hopefully it's another day of soothing light rain!
[22:37] <TheMuso> RAOF: Totally agree. Last night was great as well, I love falling asleep to the sound of rain.
[22:38] <TheMuso> And finally some nice cool weather.
[22:39] <Riddell> more rain?  at least it's not as bad as the snow we had on Tuesday
[22:41]  * Tm_T is watching as people at #ubuntu+1 are struggling with dependencies and all
[22:50] <rickspencer3> criminy, almost time for Eastern Edition already
[22:51]  * rickspencer3 is totally unprepared
[22:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, oh, something I forgot to ask in the meeting today
[22:51] <rickspencer3> okay
[22:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, do you or something has opinion on what default mp3 encoding bitrate should be?
[22:52] <seb128> we default to 128 right now
[22:52] <rickspencer3> I have no opinion
[22:52] <seb128> but ronoc pointed it's low according to current standards
[22:52] <RAOF> seb128: We're encoding with LAME, right?
[22:52] <Tm_T> it is low
[22:52] <seb128> and our ui to change those options sucks
[22:52] <rickspencer3> that seems a tad low, but I have no real knowledge to draw on
[22:52] <seb128> RAOF, I guess so
[22:52] <RAOF> Default to preset=standard
[22:52] <rickspencer3> RAOF, I think you encode with the encoder you install
[22:52] <seb128> RAOF, you can look to the gnome-media definition
[22:52] <rickspencer3> (that was supposed to make sense)
[22:52] <kklimonda> seb128: it should really be vbr, at least ~160kbit/s in my opinion
[22:52] <RAOF> rickspencer3: :)
[22:53] <Tm_T> ~160 is ok for default
[22:53] <rickspencer3> seb128, how would this change get made?
[22:53] <RAOF> lame's preset=standard is highly tweaked, and ends up being ~180kbit/s vbr generally.
[22:53] <rickspencer3> I would rather see a change like this occur earlier in the cycle
[22:53] <seb128> bug #545219
[22:53] <kklimonda> right, lame's standard preset is perfect
[22:53] <seb128> ronoc suggested a change in that bug
[22:53] <rickspencer3> chasing after new mp3 encoding bugs seems not desirable at this point
[22:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, well it's a text definition for the profile
[22:54] <kklimonda> seb128: vbr-quality=1 is a bit too high imo
[22:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, I don't think there is a *default* encoder in ubuntu, right?
[22:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, knowing that we don't have an encoder by default anyway for legal reasons
[22:54] <seb128> so the profile is what you get when you install ubuntu restricted extra or whatever that is called
[22:55] <seb128> rickspencer3, changing the biterate is just changing a number
[22:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, anyway, my opinion is that 128 seems a tad low
[22:55] <Tm_T> it is low
[22:55] <seb128> the issue is that the gnome-media profile editor has a text entry to edit profiles
[22:55] <Tm_T> it's not matter of an opinion (:
[22:55] <seb128> not really nice to use
[22:55] <seb128> k
[22:56] <seb128> I'm not sure about vbr
[22:56] <rickspencer3> you mean the UI for changing the default is not good?
[22:56] <seb128> what are the pro and con
[22:56] <RAOF> I wonder if Banshee's profile editor could be hoisted up; that works quite well, I think.
[22:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[22:56] <rickspencer3> variable bit rate is normal these days
[22:56] <TheMuso> If I had my way, it would be 256 :p but 1192, or even vbr 160/192 would be better.
[22:56] <RAOF> Modern codecs don't really support constant bitrate.
[22:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, run gnome-audio-profiles-properties and click on edit
[22:56] <seb128> and see what I means there
[22:56] <rickspencer3> seb128, I would guess that 160 is pretty common and well tested
[22:56] <seb128> you edit a gstreamer pipeline by hand there
[22:56] <kklimonda> seb128: cons are that some media players may not support vbr. I haven't seen one but people buy a lot of china-ware..
[22:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, vbr 160?
[22:57] <rickspencer3> ewe
[22:57] <rickspencer3> seb128, I don't know
[22:57] <rickspencer3> my hunch would be that that vbr is good for users to set, but not a good default
[22:57] <rickspencer3> I think my opinion is not too valuable here
[22:57] <rickspencer3> seb128, so basically, we need a good gstreamer config line there?
[22:58] <RAOF> kklimonda: Is it even possible to not support vbr?
[22:58] <seb128> in fact we have vbr-quailty=6 right now
[22:58] <rickspencer3> ah
[22:58] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[22:58] <rickspencer3> well, that shows the value of my opinion ;)
[22:58] <rickspencer3> I'm too old to know what you crazy kids are doing with your Mp3s these days
[22:58]  * rickspencer3 turns on 8 track machine
[22:58] <seb128> lol
[22:58] <TheMuso> hahaha
[22:59]  * TheMuso preferrs either buying flac/wav online, or CDs, so I have lossless copies of all my music.
[22:59] <rickspencer3> seb128, anyway, not that you were asking, but it seems like a well tested gstreamer setting changed now would be ok
[22:59]  * RAOF has a reel-to-reel tape machine in Hobart. 
[22:59] <rickspencer3> but the change would have to be like tomorrow
[22:59] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's sort of what I was asking too
[22:59] <rickspencer3> make sure it gets well tested
[22:59] <seb128> I think the current quality is too low
[22:59] <seb128> if nobody has strong opinion I will keep what we have
[22:59] <rickspencer3> I think the benefit to risk ration suggests changing it
[22:59] <seb128> but raise quality a bit
[23:00] <seb128> quality = bitrate
[23:00] <kklimonda> RAOF: I haven't seen a single player that doesn't support vbr but that doesn't mean there are no such players - I know it's entirely possible for some decoders to decode vbr poorly or not at all
[23:00] <rickspencer3> right
[23:00] <seb128> thanks
[23:00] <rickspencer3> thank you seb128
[23:00] <seb128> thanks everybody who commented too
[23:00] <rickspencer3> I just did a totally fresh install of 10.04 UNE on my netbook
[23:01] <rickspencer3> what I haven't done is prepare the wiki for Eastern Edition
[23:01] <seb128> lol
[23:01] <RAOF> I think that one of the lame presets would be a better idea, but just raising quality is ok.
[23:01] <kklimonda> seb128: the vbr-quality in my opinion should be between 4 (~165kbit) and 2 (~190kbit)
[23:01] <seb128> RAOF, do you have suggestion of gstreamer line to use?
[23:01] <rickspencer3> RAOF, TheMuso, bryceh, I'm just a tiny bit behind, should take me long
[23:01] <seb128> RAOF, in which case feel free to give me that later
[23:01] <seb128> or email it
[23:01] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Sure
[23:01] <seb128> kklimonda, thanks
[23:01] <RAOF> seb128: audio/x-raw-int,rate=44100,channels=2 ! lame name=enc preset=standard ! id3v2mux
[23:02] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[23:02] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey
[23:02] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Good morning!
[23:02] <seb128> RAOF, what is preset=standard?
[23:02] <seb128> ie what does it do, vbr, biterate?
[23:02] <kklimonda> seb128: it's the same as vbr-quality=2 afair
[23:02] <robert_ancell> RAOF, hello
[23:02] <RAOF> seb128: It's vbr, roughly 180ish
[23:02] <seb128> hum
[23:03] <seb128> I will play a bit with that tomorrow
[23:03] <seb128> is that well tested you think?
[23:03] <kklimonda> seb128: yes
[23:03] <RAOF> seb128: The lame presets are quite old, and extensively tuned by the lame devs; they're the recommended way of using lame, last time I checked.
[23:04] <seb128> k thanks
[23:04] <seb128> on that note, brb, dist-upgrade finished I need to restart
[23:04] <TheMuso> Hrm and what about enabling stereo, in stead of joint stereo?
[23:05] <TheMuso> Thats just me thoug.
[23:05] <TheMuso> though
[23:05] <TheMuso> I am picky
[23:05] <RAOF> The presets twiddle all the knobs; I'd presume that they enable stereo if it's a quality/bitrate win.
[23:06]  * bryceh catches up on morning meeting irc log
[23:08] <humphreybc> hi guys
[23:08] <humphreybc> we need a bit of help
[23:08] <humphreybc> we would love to get bug 248355 fixed in time for Lucid
[23:08] <seb128> humphreybc, not going to happen though
[23:09] <humphreybc> See, thing is, right now we're going to have thousands of people download the ubuntu manual PDF and open it up on Ubuntu to see some crappy images
[23:09] <seb128> humphreybc, there is no need to convince us that the bug is an issue
[23:09] <humphreybc> seb128: what about backporting a patch?
[23:09] <seb128> but the change require cairo changes and poppler ones
[23:09] <seb128> and cairo is a basis system library
[23:10] <seb128> and backporting unstable changes to a lts is not a great thing to do
[23:10] <robert_ancell> seb128, can you look at desktop-file-utils (not sure if allowed to upgrade) and gnome-doc-utils (no main permissions) in bzr?
[23:10] <humphreybc> seb128: one of our team members is going to look at it and see if he can file a patch for review
[23:10] <seb128> robert_ancell, I did sponsor desktop-file-utils today, though I was not really convinced there was anything we needed for lucid
[23:10] <seb128> humphreybc, we will be happy to review that
[23:10] <seb128> humphreybc, upstream hinted it would not be easy I think
[23:11] <humphreybc> okay, well we'll try our best. when does it need to be done by, beta2 freeze?
[23:11] <humphreybc> (ie, april 1st?)
[23:11] <seb128> the sooner the better
[23:11] <seb128> but if the change is easy it's ok later
[23:11] <seb128> if it's not trivial depends of the change
[23:11] <humphreybc> okay
[23:11] <humphreybc> dutchie is the one going to have a crack at it
[23:11] <rickspencer3> RAOF, TheMuso, robert_ancell, bryceh - I got the wiki updated:
[23:11] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-30
[23:12] <seb128> robert_ancell, will look to gdu
[23:12] <bryceh> rickspencer3, thanks
[23:12] <dutchie> http://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=32750 # this the right patch?
[23:12] <humphreybc> dutchie, meet seb128. He's going to review the patch if you get it done
[23:12] <seb128> hey dutchie
[23:12] <dutchie> hi seb128
[23:12] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: thanks
[23:12] <seb128> dutchie, humphreybc: sorry guys meeting just starting
[23:12] <seb128> we can talk about the meeting though
[23:12] <seb128> rickspencer3, sorry for interrupting
[23:12] <humphreybc> seb128, do you mean after the meeting?
[23:13] <seb128> humphreybc, yes sorry
[23:13] <humphreybc> no worries, we'll keep out of your hair till then
[23:15] <bryceh> total X bug chart is looking really good right now - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/totals.svg
[23:15] <bryceh> guess that a lot of old bugs are getting closed out
[23:15] <mdeslaur> seb128: are you aware libgnome is currently broken?
[23:16] <TheMuso> ok done reading
[23:16] <bryceh> X bug workload for lucid is a bit of a struggle though:  http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-lucid-workqueue.svg
[23:16] <RAOF> Done reading.
[23:17] <rickspencer3> bryceh, does that last one mean we are about 300 reports behind in triaging?
[23:17] <seb128> mdeslaur, how broken?
[23:17] <bryceh> rickspencer3, that's right
[23:17] <rickspencer3> yikes
[23:18] <mdeslaur> seb128: libgnome2-0: Depends: libgnome2-common (< 2.29) but 2.30.0-0ubuntu1 is to be installed
[23:18] <bryceh> rickspencer3, and that's not for dint of effort, I know all the ubuntu-x guys are working balls out on this.
[23:18] <mdeslaur> seb128: oh, nm
[23:18] <seb128> mdeslaur, seems that it just didn't build yet on whatever you use...
[23:18] <rickspencer3> bryceh, well, it did go down, while there were surely incoming bugs
[23:18] <mdeslaur> seb128: sorry about that
[23:18] <seb128> mdeslaur, use i386 to avoid such issues ;-)
[23:19] <seb128> mdeslaur, no worry
[23:19] <bryceh> rickspencer3, yeah I think a lot is from lots of new bugs coming in
[23:19] <rickspencer3> I don't want to have this "meta" discussion now, but it verifies that trying to triage every single bug is a suckers game
[23:19] <rickspencer3> and your efforts to filter and find actionable reports is the right stategy
[23:20] <LaserJock> triage the triage?
[23:20] <rickspencer3> so, we'll miss you next release, but I hope that we get back tons more productivity by you building these strategies into the tool
[23:20] <bryceh> :-)
[23:20] <rickspencer3> (while you are on rotation at LP)
[23:20] <rickspencer3> ok
[23:20]  * RAOF is looking forward to seing what bryceh cooks up at LP
[23:20] <bryceh> yeah this approach definitely is letting us focus on highly relevant bugs
[23:20] <RAOF> Or even seeing.
[23:20] <rickspencer3> how about we knock through the wiki really quickly
[23:20] <rickspencer3> I'll just hit the high points
[23:20] <bryceh> ok
[23:21] <RAOF> Sounds good
[23:22] <rickspencer3> so OLS has some ffe, be interesting to see what happens there
[23:22] <rickspencer3> Kubuntu, thanks to Riddell, is humming along
[23:22] <rickspencer3> seb brought up release status
[23:22] <rickspencer3> so the thing here is, we want to have good 10.04.1 release, without sapping too many resources from 10.10
[23:23] <rickspencer3> so you can see that seb128 is going to lead the effort to help identify the right bugs to bring forward
[23:23] <rickspencer3> release status, the overall message is that things seem on track
[23:24] <rickspencer3> but there will be a crush of RC bugs when we release beta 2, and only 1 week to completely address them before final freeze
[23:24] <rickspencer3> bryceh, pitti pointed out a couple of xorg/kernel bugs ... I'll leave it to you to follow up if you think it would be worthwhile
[23:24] <bryceh> rickspencer3, both already on my radar
[23:24] <rickspencer3> bryceh, ack
[23:24] <RAOF> I think the first one we've got a patch identified for.
[23:25] <RAOF> Oh, too slow :)
[23:25] <bryceh> :-)
[23:25] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:25] <rickspencer3> for blueprints, I made a place for me to dump my blueprint ideas so far
[23:25] <rickspencer3> I want to keep it informal at this point, so I invite everyone to use that wiki *if they want*
[23:25] <TheMuso> its empty
[23:25] <TheMuso> i.e page does not exist.
[23:25] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, oops, type
[23:25] <rickspencer3> hold on
[23:26] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintList
[23:26] <TheMuso> thanks
[23:26] <rickspencer3> I know that some super organized folks *cough* bryceh *cough* are well into their planning
[23:26] <rickspencer3> for UDS
[23:26] <rickspencer3> so this wiki page shouldn't disrupt that ... just an option if you're thinking about it
[23:27] <rickspencer3> and I forgot to mention at the first meeting today that Nafai will be joining us a full time Canonical Desktopper on April 1st
[23:27] <rickspencer3> holy smokes, that's in like 2 days!
[23:27] <rickspencer3> I thought I had another week to get ready!
[23:27] <RAOF> Tomorrow, even :)
[23:28] <rickspencer3> RAOF, find, be that way
[23:28] <rickspencer3> let's say 36 hours ;)
[23:28] <TheMuso> lol
[23:28]  * RAOF welcomes you from THE FUTURE!
[23:28]  * rickspencer3 shakes fist at people from the future
[23:28] <rickspencer3> :)
[23:28] <TheMuso> "I remember the future, like it was only yesterday"
[23:29] <rickspencer3> I'll add bryceh's links to the release status
[23:29] <rickspencer3> hehe
[23:29] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[23:29] <TheMuso> nope not from me.
[23:29] <Nafai> Yay for me :)
[23:29] <RAOF> Nafai: :)
[23:29] <rickspencer3> hi Nafai
[23:29] <RAOF> None from me.
[23:29] <robert_ancell> Nafai, welcome!
[23:29] <bryceh> heya Nafai
[23:29] <rickspencer3> Nafai, is based in Utah, which is only 1 hour in the future for me
[23:30] <TheMuso> Welcome Nafai.
[23:30] <RAOF> Welcome Nafai.
[23:30] <Nafai> Thanks guys, I'm excited
[23:39] <dutchie> has the meeting finished now?
[23:40] <seb128> dutchie, yes
[23:40] <dutchie> seb128: cool, would you prefer a debdiff or a merge request in LP?
[23:40] <seb128> either way
[23:40] <dutchie> I've applied the patch, I'm just checking it builds
[23:43] <seb128> dutchie, hum, I think I confused the bug with an another one
[23:44] <seb128> there is no cairo change required there
[23:44] <humphreybc> lolk
[23:44] <seb128> I did try to git change earlier in the cycle though
[23:44] <seb128> but I didn't see any difference there
[23:45] <dutchie> I'm looking at bug 248335, and have applied the patch from the linked fd.o one (http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5589)
[23:45] <seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/poppler/0.12.3-0ubuntu1
[23:45] <dutchie> oops, bug 248355
[23:46] <seb128> ups, ignore the url I copied
[23:46] <seb128> well I tried the git change some months ago
[23:46] <seb128> but I didn't see any rendering issue when using it
[23:46] <seb128> issue -> difference
[23:48] <seb128> bug #92296
[23:48] <seb128> see I commented on this one
[23:48] <seb128> comment #21
[23:49] <seb128> let me know if you have example showing the issue
[23:49] <dutchie> it's the same upstream bug
[23:49] <seb128> and how the commit makes a difference
[23:49] <seb128> right
[23:49] <seb128> I know I tried this git commit before
[23:49] <seb128> it just didn't seem to change anything with the examples on launchpad
[23:49] <seb128> not sure those example are showing the issue though
[23:50] <seb128> or if depends on other settings
[23:50] <seb128> like screen or fonts being used
[23:51] <dutchie> well, I can certainly confirm the image quality is pretty poor now
[23:51] <seb128> let me know how the change work then
[23:51] <seb128> and add an example of low quality to the bug if you can
[23:51] <dutchie> I'm using one of the examples
[23:51] <seb128> the screenshots showing the issue are not very useful to try
[23:52] <seb128> which one?
[23:52] <dutchie> hang on, chromium is having a bit of a hissy
[23:53] <dutchie> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32622509/zewail.pdf
[23:53] <dutchie> building packages on netbook == not fun
[23:54] <seb128> k, quality is not really good
[23:54] <seb128> let's see how it behaves with the change
[23:54] <dutchie> fwiw, google docs does the job fine ;)
[23:55] <dutchie> ArthurOutputDev.cc:586:2: warning: #warning FIX THIS
[23:55] <dutchie> that fills me with hope
[23:56] <LaserJock> hah, laser jock bad quality PDF FTL :(
[23:56] <LaserJock> my boss did her PhD with Zewail
[23:56] <chrisccoulson> hey Nafai, welcome aboard :)
[23:56] <Nafai> Thanks chrisccoulson