jbebelDid the amd64 partman-base fail to build?  It didn't show up in the pool.00:45
=== sconklin is now known as sconklin-away
cr3anyone happen to be running lucid desktop in virtual box? I'd really appreciate having the output of a command from that environment01:18
jbebelcr3, I have a lucid desktop in vbox.01:31
cr3jbebel: awesome! could you send me the output from running the command /usr/share/checkbox/scripts/udev_resource?01:41
jbebelcr3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/406265/01:47
cr3jbebel: excellent, that confirms a bug reported. can you also pastebin the output of: ls /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id01:52
jbebelcr3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/406267/01:54
cr3jbebel: would you mind if I asked you to make a modification to /usr/share/checkbox/scripts/udev_resource and try again?02:09
cr3jbebel: simply replace line 392 with: type = int(self._attributes.get("chassis_type", "0"))02:10
cr3jbebel: then, try running again and let me know if you still get an exception02:11
jbebelNo exception02:12
cr3jbebel: awesome! I'll submit that fix02:12
nixternalHobbsee: 20:27:44 [ nixternal] I miss hobbsee   - we need you back :~(02:28
=== samferry is now known as sam_
=== sam_ is now known as samferry
ScottK+1 for Hobbsee's return.03:20
lifelessshe's gone?03:24
ajmitchjust a bit inactive, I thought03:29
ScottKQuite a bit.03:31
=== \vish is now known as vish
=== ArneGoet1e is now known as ArneGoetje
AlTheKillerHi, is there a quick way to determine what configure flags were used to build a package?04:29
hdonhi all. i am having a problem building a release version of Go on Ubuntu Karmic: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/71147405:15
hdonit looks like /usr/include/gnu/stubs.h are trying to include "gnu/stubs-32.h" and not finding it05:15
nixternalslangasek: for that bug 551290 - that means I need to lame out the theme right? can't use no good colors07:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 551290 in kubuntu-default-settings "[lucid] Kubuntu theme on nvidia card too ugly" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55129007:02
pittiGood morning07:06
nixternalmornin' pitti07:07
slangaseknixternal: well, I don't know how Keybuk intends to handle selecting a different image for VGA vs. drm; perhaps you should wait and see what develops there07:09
nixternaloh, well that is good to know....07:10
pittihi nixternal07:10
nixternalso I take it aubergine was a nightmare on nvidia crap hardware?07:10
tjaaltonslangasek: hey, got a minute for the backport ffe?07:10
slangasektjaalton: looking at it now07:10
tjaaltonslangasek: cool, thanks07:11
slangaseknixternal: no, aubergine still looks fine in VGA, but the logo is dithered07:11
nixternaldamn, gotta DMB meeting at 10am....just my luck, I volunteered to chair...10am is to early07:11
nixternalslangasek: hrmm07:11
nixternalso much for my theme where distro logos come in, and then get smashed by the kubuntu logo :p07:12
apacheloggergood plan it was though07:14
dholbachgood morning07:58
slangasekArneGoetje, pitti: livefs build failure today, file conflict between language-pack-gnome-de and language-pack-de (/usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/clutter-1.0.mo)08:01
* slangasek waves to dholbach 08:01
dholbachhola slangasek08:03
ArneGoetjeslangasek: gaa... another template moved... shall clutter be in -gnome or in the common langpacks?08:09
slangasekArneGoetje: wherever you think it belongs? :)08:12
ArneGoetjeslangasek: I don't know clutter. Is that a gnome specific thing or a generic thing?08:13
slangasekArneGoetje: it's GTK-specific, but not very GNOME-specific; it does appear to be in both ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-netbook, and not in kubuntu-netbook, though, so I guess -gnome is the right answer08:15
ArneGoetjeslangasek: ok, thanks08:15
ArneGoetjeslangasek: that needs new -base language-packs. I will rebuild them.08:17
freepitti: creating a symlink /usr/lib/dbus-1.0/dbus-daemon-launch-helper -> /lib/dbus-1.0/dbus-daemon-launch-helper solves the hardy-to-lucid upgrade problem (new processes can't connect to dbus anymore after the upgrade)08:45
freepitti: do you want me to file a bug or can you just make a new revision of the dbus package?08:45
lifelesspersia: ping08:49
dholbachpersia: "The DMB currently meets every two weeks in #ubuntu-meeting at 15:00 UTC." isn't very clear (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard) - should that be "ever 2nd and 4th tuesday of the month" - also does fridge say 14 utc08:51
dholbachor geser, soren, stgraber, cody-somerville ^ :)08:52
geserdholbach: fridge got confused with the DST change, the DMB meeting is still at 15:00 UTC09:13
dholbachara: ^09:14
geserdholbach: as the DMB meetings alternate with TB meetings, you would also have to set the TB meetings to 1st and 3rd Tuesday to let it work without collisions09:16
dholbachgeser: I don't know - I was just looking at the page and thought it's a bit unclear09:17
pittifree: can you please file a bug and assign to canonical-desktop-team?09:17
pittifree: great to hear that it worked!09:17
dholbacheither you explain the rule or mention when the next meeting is going to be :)09:17
geserdholbach: else the schedule shifts in months with 5 tuesdays (like this month where the DMB meetings happened on 1st, 3rd and 5th Tuesday)09:19
* Ng wonders why we don't just run fsck -y when it says it needs to be run manually09:20
geserdholbach: mentioning the next meeting seems to be easier (would mentioning it on the Agenda page be clear enough?)09:20
Ngexactly who ever runs fsck and doesn't just say yes to all the things it wants to fix? ;)09:20
Ngother than Ted09:20
dholbachgeser: yeah, probably09:20
alkisgHi, could someone help with bug #491940?09:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 491940 in ltsp "Patch for LTSP clients to properly reboot/shutdown" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49194009:41
alkisgI've committed a patch in LTSP that would solve the problem, if the corresponding patch that I sent to gnome-session was accepted.09:41
alkisgThe gnome-session patch was neither accepted nor explicitly rejected. In any case, the problem remains:09:41
alkisgLTSP clients in Lucid have non-working reboot/shutdown menus. They were working in previous releases with a similar patch in fusa.09:41
alkisgAs a teacher I think this is really inconvenient for schools, so I'd appreciate it if someone could direct me to a way to deal with this problem.09:41
dholbachthanks geser09:43
lifelesspersia: ping ;)09:48
pittiamitk: do you still remember the power saving UDS discussion? one point was "do not enable fingerprint readers unless fprint/thinkfinger are installed", which unfortunately was only put on the beta-2 list09:58
pittiamitk: however, there is no specific module for those which could be blacklisted with a modprobe.d file (unless tf/fprint are available)09:59
pittiamitk: is there some better way to not enable those?09:59
lifelesspitti: are fprint and thinkfinger quivalent ?10:03
pittiamitk: also, I don't see the device appear in powertop at all; 80% of wakeups are "rescheduling interrupts" and "load balancing" and "extra timer interrupt" (which all seem kernel related), and 8% is touchpad; the rest seems negligible10:04
pittilifeless: in terms of using the fingerprint scan device they should be?10:04
lifelessI'll go for thinkfinger then as it has thinkfinger-tools10:04
pittilifeless: I tried tf in the past, and it worked; fprint is allegedly a more flexible platform, but I haven't ever tried it10:05
pittibut I have never actually used this thing10:05
lifelesspitti: I has a new laptop ;)10:06
lifelessactually has three buttons on the touchpad again (yay!)10:06
pittiI type my user name faster than I can swipe my finger, and a fingerprint reader isn't for authentication10:06
lifelessbut also a fpr reader10:06
lifelessits not for auth?10:06
pittilifeless: wohoo; another three years over? which one did you get?10:06
lifelessx201s/8G/128G SSD10:07
pittilifeless: my latitude 430 has an fp reader as well10:07
pittilifeless: is that a thinkpad?10:07
lifelesspitti: I know, my old D430 is on the floor beside me10:07
pittiamitk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/406418/ for the record; it's actually a little disappointing, in jaunty/karmic I got it down to 10 W10:08
pittilifeless: for warming your feet now? :-)10:08
lifelesspitti: :>10:08
lifelessnpviewer.bin die die die10:09
pittilifeless: not for auth> your fingerprints are all over the place, and also conveniently located on the keys, the laptop cover, the wrist rests, etc; not much different than writing your password on a post-it note on the monitor10:09
lifelessI thought that the point was to check for a pulse at the same time10:09
pittithe ones that they built into notebooks don't have life sign detection10:10
pittithey are by and large just an optical scanner10:10
lifeless42% of wakeups 'Load balancing tick'10:11
lifeless18% iwlagn interrupt10:11
lifeless11% firefox10:11
pittiI disabled firefox, network, empaty, and almost everythign else except gnome-terminal for that run10:11
lifelessthis machine is sitting at 12W with nothing disabled10:12
lifelessscreen at 60% or so10:12
cjwatsonlifeless: don't suppose you happened to run across any decently-priced non-Thinkpad SSD laptops ...10:13
* cjwatson looking for recommendations right now10:14
lifelesscjwatson: johnf here in sydney is very happy with an hp netbook w/ssd10:14
lifelessbeing extremely cheap as a result of being a netbook10:14
cjwatsonmm, HP was on my list, although I don't want a netbook - might look into what else they have10:14
lifelesscjwatson: I'm not a IBM fanboy per se, but I'm quite happy with this.10:16
lifelesswhy are you excluding thinkpads ?10:16
cjwatsonI despise the Esc key placement10:16
cjwatson(trivial I know, but it has long annoyed me)10:16
* RAOF opens his thinkpad to check the Esc key...10:17
pittiswapping esc and caps lock in ~/.xmodmap FTW10:17
lifelesscjwatson: ah yes. its been pissing me off just enough to be a PITA, but not enough to want to return an otherwise great machine.10:17
pitti(for all of us happy vim users)10:17
cjwatsonpitti: ah, the thing is, I like Caps Lock as well10:19
pitticjwatson: oh; I don't know many people who do10:19
cjwatsonanyway, I suppose this is OT, sorry10:19
lifelesstumbleweeds if we were not talking10:19
RAOFHardware lust is *always* on topic. :)10:19
pittiat least it never seemed important enough to me to give it such a good and comfortable position on a keyboard..10:19
pitticjwatson: partman-multipath wants to go back to universe, 's ok?10:32
tjaaltonthough I've not had a chance to try it yet10:32
pittihm, then perhaps some dependency was dropped?10:32
cjwatsonwonder how that fell out, I thought I'd seeded it10:32
cjwatsonI don't think anything ever depended on it10:32
tjaaltoncjwatson: do you know if someone has tested it on lucid yet?10:32
cjwatsontjaalton: I don't know10:33
cjwatsonnot that it's changed much?10:33
cjwatsonI'm just going to seed it, it's been in main since jaunty10:33
tjaaltonyeah it worked fine then, will reinstall the shell server with lucid this summer10:34
tjaaltonit handles ~800 unique sessions just fine10:34
pitticjwatson: related to that, libudev0-udeb wants demotion as well, that doesn't look intended?10:34
cjwatsondoes anything depend on it?10:38
cjwatsonnothing in the core installer uses libudev10:38
cjwatsonI assumed it was there because udev-udeb linked against it10:38
KeybukI think I compile udev-udeb static10:39
cjwatsonit's not static, but nothing in udev-udeb seems to use libudev10:41
cjwatsoneven in the main udev package, it's only input_id10:41
pittiI checked ldd, and it doesn't lik against libudev-udeb10:41
pitticjwatson: input_id was fixed in the last upload, or should have been at least10:41
pittiyep, seems fine10:41
cjwatsonI didn't know it was a bug, but OK10:41
pittiok, so it seems that can safely go10:42
mdzpitti: hi, I noticed you were looking at apport stuff this morning. did you have a chance to look over my Java crash handler?10:42
pittitseliot: is nvidia-185-modaliases current or obsolete? (it wants to go to universe)10:42
pittimdz: not yet, sorry; I'm afraid this has to wait for a bit (it will take me some time to learn about java stuff)10:43
pittimdz: but if it works for you, I'm happy to merge it10:43
tseliotpitti: it's a transitional package and I think we need it in main/restricted (why universe??)10:43
pittitseliot: well, s/universe/not main/10:44
pittitseliot: ah, ok, so we should seed it10:44
* tseliot nods10:44
pittitseliot: done10:46
tseliotpitti: thanks10:46
mdzpitti: it's not ready to merge yet; it's just some dead code in the source tree right now (doesn't get tested or installed)10:47
cjwatsonTheMuso: could you look at bug 551515 and decide whether it makes sense?11:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 551515 in casper "[Lucid] need little modify the ubiquity-hooks/30accessibility script with gdm accessibility setting configuration part in Blindness profile" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55151511:04
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
nosse1Hello. How can I debug upstart during system startup? I cant inject strace in the init="" kernel string, because that results init/upstart not to become process num 112:00
marufaberlinis there a channel for ubuntu app development? i'm trying to implement a virtual semantic file system for ubuntu12:00
nosse1Yes, See #ubuntu-app-devel12:01
TheMusocjwatson: It makes sense to me, I'm not sure whether the proposed solution is sane however.12:01
marufaberlinthanks :)12:01
TheMusocjwatson: I need to talk to the desktop fols about this, and will follow up and make changes if necessary.12:03
cjwatsonTheMuso: thanks12:04
Keybuknosse1: what are you trying to debug?12:05
nosse1Keybuk: Upstart. I have a ARM target which fails sometime during upstart12:05
Keybuknosse1: no, what problem are you trying to debug12:06
Keybukit's unlikely you have a problem with the init daemon itself12:06
nosse1Keybuk: Yes, upstart is probably not the culprit. I'm working on an initial bringup of Ubuntu to a new target, so it's likely that its something in relationshop with the kernel12:07
nosse1Keybuk: However init="/sbin/init --verbose" does not reveal anything useful12:08
Keybuknosse1: again, what problem are you trying to debug?12:08
nosse1My target system won't boot. It hangs somewhere between init and the console login12:08
Keybukwith --verbose, what is the last message on the console that you see?12:09
nosse1It varies. Sometimes it hangs in the middle of a output line, like "init: module-init-tools state changed from waiting to s"12:12
\shis there a special irc channel for ubuntu one?12:12
Keybuknosse1: did you try booting without "quiet" to get kernel messages?12:13
nosse1Keybuk: Yes I'm on a embedded target, so quiet is not enabled per default12:14
nosse1No special message there12:14
Keybukif output is stopping mid-way through a line, it really sounds like a deeper problem12:14
nosse1I suspect a syscall crashing the system, and I hoped strace could point me in the right direction12:14
Keybukyou can't strace init12:15
Keybukand, even if you could, init doesn't make many interesting syscalls; fork() and exec() are all it really does12:15
nosse1if I can get strace to follow those forks and execs then that is what I want :)12:16
Keybukright, but you can't strace init12:16
nosse1How is that?   strace -p1 wont work?12:17
Keybukthe kernel won't let you do it12:17
nosse1I'll start peeling of services and see if I can come any closer12:18
nosse1upstart will only consider *.conf in /etc/init right? I can rename them to foobar.conf.nope to disable them?12:19
alkisgHi, could someone help with bug #491940?12:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 491940 in ltsp "Patch for LTSP clients to properly reboot/shutdown" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49194012:46
alkisgI've committed a patch in LTSP that would solve the problem, if the corresponding patch that I sent to gnome-session was accepted.12:46
alkisgThe gnome-session patch was neither accepted nor explicitly rejected. In any case, the problem remains:12:46
alkisgLTSP clients in Lucid have non-working reboot/shutdown menus. They were working in previous releases with a similar patch in fusa.12:46
alkisgAs a teacher I think this is really inconvenient for schools, so I'd appreciate it if someone could direct me to a way to deal with this problem.12:46
seb128alkisg, the gnome-session change you suggest seems rather an hack that's the correct way12:48
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
seb128alkisg, it seems to need some work but that will not be changed in lucid now12:49
alkisgseb128: I wouldn't call it a hack - it's the standard way we use in LTSP for the server to communicate to the client12:49
alkisgseb128: so the desision is to have broken menus for LTSP clients? Isn't LTSP in main?12:50
seb128alkisg, did you address the comments on the bug?12:50
alkisgYes, all of them.12:50
seb128k so maybe somebody will review it12:50
* alkisg doesn't think so, else he wouldn't ask here...12:50
seb128that's not a decision rather than how things are turning12:50
alkisgseb128: why not just accept the patch?12:51
seb128to be honest I don't think so either12:51
alkisgIs it so horrible?12:51
seb128because it's a hack12:51
alkisgThen all of LTSP is a hack12:51
alkisgBecause that's the way localapps are implemented in LTSP12:51
seb128and we have other issues we need to work on now12:51
seb128and nobody in the desktop team seems to be interested in doing ltsp work12:51
alkisgseb128: I was directed to do it this way by the indicator-applet maintainer12:51
alkisgAnd chrisccoulson has said "yeah, no problem" - so I thought everything was ok12:52
seb128ok, so good12:52
alkisgI don't know why setting an xprop to be picked up by the ltsp display manager is considered such a bad practice...12:52
seb128why do you ask on IRC if everything is ok?12:53
alkisgBecause it isn't12:53
alkisgHe probably changed his mind or something...12:53
alkisgBut I don't know what is wrong, or how would I correct it12:54
alkisgSetting xprops is the standard way we use in LTSP to communicate something to the client. Leaving broken menus sound much worse to me.12:54
seb128alkisg, reality is that the team is busy with other things right now so review will take a while12:54
seb128hey chrisccoulson12:54
alkisgHi chrisccoulson12:55
alkisgSorry if I'm insisting on this too much, but it is a big problem in classrooms12:55
alkisgAnd that xprop will only be set for LTSP clients, so I can't imaging how would that affect normal installations...12:56
seb128it's not a matter of affecting normal installation12:56
seb128but to have new codepath12:56
seb128new potential bugs12:56
seb128divergence with upstream and debian12:56
seb128+ it requires somebody to review the change and test those12:57
alkisgThat path was suggested by the indicator-applet maintainer exactly because it's a modification to an *existing* ubuntu patch12:57
seb128and I'm not sure anybody in the desktop team has access to ltsp setups for testing12:57
alkisgseb128: many people have tested it and reported that it's OK in the bug report12:57
seb128ok, good12:57
seb128so wait to see if somebody review it now12:57
alkisg(I had uploaded a patched gnome-session in my ppa for some months)12:57
seb128I'm not really interested by arguing there, I was just giving reason on why it might take a while12:58
seb128back to work12:58
alkisgI'm pretty sure that if I just wait, nothing will happen, so LTSP will just have broken menus12:58
chrisccoulsonthe patch is incorrect anyway, if it's the same one as posted in the description of the bug report (i don't know if you already discussed that)12:58
alkisgseb128: ok, thank you for your time12:58
chrisccoulson(i commented on the bug explaining why)12:58
alkisgchrisccoulson: how is it incorrect?12:58
alkisgI answered to your comments in the bug report12:58
chrisccoulsoni explained already on the bug report. the additional hook is in the wrong place12:58
alkisgYou're saying that it won't work from the session dialog, but it does12:58
alkisgThat place was suggested by tedg12:59
alkisgI just did the ltsp part...12:59
alkisgIt even works if an app directly calls dbus13:00
alkisg(e.g. italc)13:00
chrisccoulsonalkisg, i don't see how it works from the session dialog if you added the extra code to gsm_manager_request_{shutdown,reboot}13:03
chrisccoulsonthose are only callable from the dbus interface13:04
alkisgchrisccoulson: 5-6 persons in the bug report are verifying that it does, though13:04
seb128you don't use the same session dialogs13:04
seb128chrisccoulson means the one you get without the indicator13:04
alkisgI'm pressing the shutdown button of my dialog13:04
chrisccoulsonthe patch in your ppa must be different to the one in the bug then if that works13:05
alkisgThe session dialog comes up, I select power off, and it does13:05
chrisccoulsonbecause the one in the bug definately doesn't work13:05
alkisgIn previous Ubuntu versions, a patch was accepted in fusa that it was working only in fusa13:06
alkisgEven if that patch works from the applet + the dbus calls, why would the previous one be accepted, and this one not?13:06
alkisgIs leaving non-working menus better?13:06
alkisgBecause in my classroom I'm ashamed to have to explain to my students why the menus are not working...13:06
seb128nobody denies there is an issue13:08
seb128but the fact that it was fixed in a broken way before doesn't mean we should keep carrying broken changes13:08
alkisgOK, so I'm asking: what would be a better way?13:08
seb128not sure, I don't know about ltsp and how it's working13:09
seb128and why such hacks are required13:09
dnivraHello. Can someone tell me which package does "network proxy" belong to?13:09
cjwatsondnivra: run "network proxy", then in a terminal run 'xprop | grep WM_CLASS', click on "network proxy" window, and you get:13:10
cjwatsonWM_CLASS(STRING) = "gnome-network-properties", "Gnome-network-properties"13:10
alkisgI'm upstream for LTSP, and I'm not aware of any other better way.13:10
alkisgIt's even better than the one used in previous ubuntu versions13:10
alkisgSo I'm not sure what more can be done from the LTSP side...13:10
cjwatsondnivra: then 'dpkg -S bin/gnome-network-properties' and you get gnome-control-center13:10
cjwatsondnivra: so the package name is gnome-control-center13:10
seb128alkisg, k, still arguing there is of no real use13:11
seb128alkisg, what is needed is somebody having free slot to review your change and work on the issue13:11
seb128alkisg, you will not get that by arguing on IRC13:11
dnivracjwatson, that was quick even before I could understand what you were saying. let me try to do it. thanks a lot!13:11
alkisgOK, thank you seb128 for your time. I just had to do a last try, as I think the issue is too important to go unnoticed13:11
* alkisg resigns from this issue, I'll just keep a patched gnome-session in my ppa for greek schools.13:12
seb128alkisg, did you try to understand chrisccoulson's comments on the bug?13:13
alkisgseb128: to the best of my ability...13:13
seb128and to address those rather than reply that it works as it is now13:13
cjwatsondnivra: I just wanted to explain the general method because that way you can find out the answer to future questions of the same form13:13
alkisgseb128: that code path was suggested by tedg, which works on that stuff. I don't - I'm working on LTSP. I don't think I can find a better codepath myself.13:14
dnivracjwatson, thank you. it was real new info. off to the man page to make more sense of the commands used.13:14
seb128alkisg, ted works on the indicators not on gnome-session13:14
alkisgchrisccoulson: if you think there's a better codepath somewhere, could you please give me some hint?13:15
cjwatson(I'm assuming that the first field in WM_CLASS is always the command name; it generally seems to be but I haven't actually gone and checked the specification for this)13:15
alkisg(and, is that actually the problem? Or is it the xprop?)13:15
seb128alkisg, we will try to review the bug before lucid but schedule is tight and that's low priority on the tasklists13:15
alkisgseb128: I know - I filed it there months ago, though... :-/13:15
seb128well as said before nobody in our team uses ltsp or has configuration to work on those changes13:16
seb128we just agreed that we don't like the current way the change are done on the bug13:16
alkisgAnyway, that's about as much as I can do about it, I don't think I'm able to do anything more. Thank you all very much for your time.13:17
seb128alkisg, sorry to be really helpful there, as said it's on our list it's just not high ranked for now13:17
seb128we might look at it before lucid still though13:18
alkisgchrisccoulson: if you find time to come up with something that needs testing, there are many teachers here available for testing ltsp.13:18
alkisgOK. Thanks again.13:18
chrisccoulsonalkisg, i don't really have any time to spare atm13:20
alkisgchrisccoulson: I understand - but if you could only clarify this: if a better code path is found so that it also works from the session dialog, would that be enough to get it accepted?13:21
alkisg(because if it's the xprop usage, I don't think we can find any other way unless we patch dbus itself...)13:22
=== sconklin-away is now known as sconklin
=== ctrlsoft is now known as Guest30384
=== Guest30384 is now known as jelmer
marjocjwatson: http://people.canonical.com/~marjomercado/isotestingbugs.html updated per your request14:16
happyaroncjwatson: hi, could you have a look at bug 476269 ?14:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 476269 in ubiquity "Chinese, Brazilian Portuguese, and English variant translations aren't shown during Karmic and Lucid installation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47626914:21
freepitti: bug filed, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/551672, and thanks for your hints!14:22
ubottuUbuntu bug 551672 in dbus "Can't connect to d-bus after upgrading from Hardy to Lucid" [Undecided,New]14:22
cjwatsonhappyaron: not right now, but I've put it on my list to do in time for beta-214:22
pittifree: thanks!14:22
happyaroncjwatson: good to hear that, many thanks!14:23
mdzmvo: on a related note, do you have a guess about bug 545790? (seen in the same upgrade)14:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 545790 in dpkg "package PACKAGE failed to install/upgrade: error writing to '<standard output>': Success" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54579014:32
mvomdz: it may well be a dupe, I have not checked carefully yet. but it does make sense that the frontend goes away and dpkg gets unhappy afterwards14:33
mdzmvo: I think it's a dpkg bug that it doesn't show the error code (probably EPIPE or so)14:36
mdzit's doing printf (without checking the error code), followed by fflush and ferror14:37
mdzthen assuming errno is something useful14:37
mdzferror explicitly doesn't set errno, though14:39
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
mptdavmor2, hi14:49
davmor2mpt: hello14:49
mptdavmor2, <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter> has lots of test cases embedded in it. (I keep them there so that I can keep them in sync with the rest of the spec). Is it ok if I replace the contents of <http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/System/SoftwareCenter> with instructions on finding them?14:50
davmor2mpt: 2 ticks I'll have a quick look14:51
mptdavmor2, I could add "sc-nnn"-type numbers to each of them if that would help14:53
davmor2mpt: okay so your page the cases don't really leap out.  So the obvious way would be as you say to tie it in with sc-nnn.  I'm not sure how that would tie in then with qa.testcases.  ara ^ any idea14:56
mptdavmor2, search for "Test case:" - there's 17 of them14:57
mptI'll number them14:57
arampt, the problem is that those test cases make no sense without the spec14:59
mptara, hm, that's probably true for the first couple. I can reword them.15:00
mathiazRiddell: hi! Does kubuntu use autofs to mount usb drives? bug 54538415:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 545384 in autofs "automatic mounting of removable devices doesn't work in KDE" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54538415:01
davmor2mpt: as a side note it may be easier from a testers view point if all the test were together in one section too,  or maybe at the bottom of each section rather than just randomly in the general text, I hope that makes sense15:06
arampt, nevertheless, I like having all the testcases in the same place. do you know if moinmoin <<include>> statements work across different instances?15:06
davmor2ara: schwuk might know15:07
mptdavmor2, ara: The accuracy of a test case is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between that testcase and the specification for the feature.15:09
mptAs we get more specification coverage, I expect we'll have more test cases in specifications15:09
mptespecially for specifications that are in use-case format15:09
mptSo, I guess we should figure out a way to extract and syndicate them on qa.ubuntu.com15:09
arampt, agree15:10
arampt, right now we include pieces of other testcases into a new one, but always within testcases.qa, I don't know if it would work from content outside15:10
Riddellmathiaz: it uses hal I think15:11
Riddellnot sure what hal uses15:11
davmor2ara, mpt: why not name one case sc-010 and see if you can pull it in15:13
mptdavmor2, ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=360&rev1=35915:15
arampt, davmor2: right now I cannot try. I will try asap15:16
mptok, for now I've just added a link and string to search for15:18
Keybuk^ Hilarious, yet insightful15:18
mdzara: I see a lot of bug reports where people copy and paste the output of "lsb_release" and "apt-cache policy <package>", even though they are using apport which includes this information for them. are there instructions somewhere which tell them to do this?15:34
mdzara: (random example: bug 548428)15:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 548428 in chromium-browser "Error 107 (net::ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR): Unknown error" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54842815:34
aramdz, yes, launchpad tell them to add that information15:35
mdzara: maybe it shouldn't say that if there is already apport info attached (I find it makes the report harder to read)15:36
mathiazjames_w: hi! Could you import the latest version of the openldap package in the packaging branch?15:39
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james_wmathiaz: it's working on it now15:46
mathiazjames_w: thanks15:47
mdzKeybuk: wow, the more links you click, the deeper the sexism goes15:48
mdzreddit is pretty low15:48
jdongmdz: I hope I'm reading it correctly (with my sarcasm detector going off...)15:49
Keybukmdz: I don't see any evidence of sexism in the author's post15:49
mdzKeybuk: the original article is some mild condescension and implied feminine irrationality15:50
mdzthen the comments kick it up a notch... then the reddit comments go even further15:51
mdzthere's a theorem in here somewhere15:51
Keybukmdz: you are a very strange person.  The original article that I read has a lot of implied geek irrationality in the face of the poor guy's suffering wife trying to get him to not apply computer science problems to making dinner15:51
james_wmathiaz: done15:52
jdongI thought it came across witty like the last xkcd15:52
mdzKeybuk: yes, I am, but I don't think this is an example of it. :-)15:53
mdzI'll save the deconstruction for some other time or channel15:54
jcastromvo: squid guy mail reminder!15:57
mvojcastro: *cough* right15:59
jcastromvo: it's ok I'll just bug you until you do it, heh. Also, I submitted a branch to add more mirrors.16:01
mvojcastro: cool16:02
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=== deryck is now known as deryck[lunch]
RiddellArneGoetje: ping16:20
RiddellArneGoetje: you said ubuntu desktop is changing to liberation and I said I'd enquire if that's something we want in Kubuntu.  turns out we do want it.  what needs doing?16:20
cody-somervilleAren't you suppose to be able to click through notify-osd notifications? I just tried to and it wasn't letting me. :/16:20
mrandpitti: Mythtv packages are still struggling to get good backtraces.  It looks like compile-type=debug doesn't help.  We recently had the opportunity to have two bugs filed on the exact same problem on same machine with same version.  One with debug packages, one without: Bug 549593 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/549459  retracer didn't add any value on either bug, and non-dbg trace was useless.16:23
mrandSo still looks like we need our purpose built -dbg packages.  superm1 was wondering if you had any ideas?16:23
ubottuUbuntu bug 549459 in mythtv "mythfrontend.real crashed with SIGSEGV in QX11PixmapData::x11ConvertToDefaultDepth() (dup-of: 549593)" [Medium,Triaged]16:23
ubottuUbuntu bug 549593 in mythtv "mythfrontend.real crashed with SIGSEGV in QX11PixmapData::x11ConvertToDefaultDepth()" [Medium,Triaged]16:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 549593 in mythtv "mythfrontend.real crashed with SIGSEGV in QX11PixmapData::x11ConvertToDefaultDepth()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54959316:23
LaserJockany java folks about?16:24
highvoltageas if they'll admit it :)16:28
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geserLaserJock: nobody is in #ubuntu-java?16:29
cjwatsonKeybuk: how does http://paste.ubuntu.com/406585/ look to you?16:30
Keybukcjwatson: bug# ?16:31
LaserJockgeser: ah, good point16:31
cjwatsonKeybuk: don't have one, I encountered it locally and started fixing it first16:31
Keybukwhat was the bug?16:31
cjwatsonserver install, removed 'splash' from command line, stuck on tty7 after boot; strace revealed that plymouth was segfaulting, further investigation revealed it was segfaulting on trying to access VGA registers16:32
cjwatsonsorry, plymouthd segfaulting not plymouth16:33
Keybukif you removed splash, why would plymouth be trying to use the vga16fb renderer?16:33
cjwatsonthat I don't knoww16:33
Keybukmoving all that code into activate() breaks a lot of the design separation of the plugin16:35
KeybukI wouldn't want to do that16:35
KeybukVT activation is supposed to be trivial, not complex16:35
cjwatsonok, so I should be investigating why the vga16fb renderer is being used instead?16:35
Keybukcjwatson: right, it might be a simple bug that on_vt_active_changed is being called in the first place16:36
cjwatsonright, I can look into that then.  thanks!16:36
Keybukthat being said16:37
Keybukthe vga calls should probably be guarded by the map_address != MAP_FAILED check anyway16:37
cjwatson(or 0; or else initialise map_address to MAP_FAILED when creating the backend)16:37
Keybukright that too16:38
Keybukthough also arguably all that vga stuff should move to the top of flush_head()16:40
Keybukafter the set_mode :p16:40
Keybukthat's actually probably the right thing16:40
Keybuk(as well as finding out why vga16fb was used in the first place)16:40
ubottuUbuntu bug 263822 in vte "RTL (right to left) support in terminal (BiDi)" [Low,Triaged]16:42
cjwatsonKeybuk: AFAICS, it isn't really being used, it's just that open_device sets up the on_active_vt_changed callback, and that's called unconditionally at startup16:42
Damasceneplease help with work around16:42
Keybukcjwatson: the callback shouldn't be called unless a VT change happens?16:42
Keybukjames_w: why didn't evan's upload end up in lp:ubuntu/plymouth ?16:48
james_wgood question, let me look16:48
james_wit's currently not touching plymouth as you pushed over the top of it apparently16:49
Keybukyes, you said to16:49
james_wI'm just double checking everything then I'll tell it that that is ok and it should carry on16:50
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james_wKeybuk: should be there now16:59
james_wand it didn't even overwrite your branch!!!!!!16:59
=== deryck[lunch] is now known as deryck
zuldoes anyone have a suggestion for a way for not removing  a user's user database when going from one version to the next (for reference: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rabbitmq-server/+bug/506985)17:01
ubottuUbuntu bug 506985 in rabbitmq-server "Upgrade from rabbitmq-server 1.54 -> 1.7.0 wiped users and vhosts" [High,Confirmed]17:01
ArneGoetjeRiddell: just seed ttf-liberation in Kubuntu17:11
RiddellArneGoetje: and fontconfig will magically use that as the default?17:11
ArneGoetjeRiddell: default for what?17:11
Riddellfor "Sans" and "Serif" fonts17:12
ArneGoetjeRiddell: no, it won't. Since DejaVu has a better coverage, they will still be the default17:12
RiddellArneGoetje: so ubuntu's gnome has a settings override somewhere to make liberation the default?17:13
ArneGoetjeRiddell: if you want the Liberation fonts to be the desktop defaults, you'll need to add a fontconfig snippet.17:13
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ArneGoetjeRiddell: no, we don't use it as default in Ubuntu. It's just installed by default, so that users can use it on the LiveCD and in their installation, e.g. in openoffice.org17:14
cjwatsonKeybuk: according to strace, the VT switch in question is simply due to plymouthd itself calling VT_ACTIVATE 717:14
RiddellArneGoetje: ah ok17:15
barrypitti: ping17:15
pittibarry: pong17:16
barrypitti: hi!  what i can i do to convince you to approve bug 541990? :)17:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 541990 in computer-janitor "[FFe] Upgrade Computer Janitor to 2.0 (dbus edition)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54199017:16
Keybukcjwatson: which should be in map_to_device, which is after the ioperms call17:17
pittibarry: ah, I'll respond to that soon, just didn't get to it yet today17:17
pittibarry: (like review the branch, etc.)17:17
Keybukjames_w: yays, etc.17:17
evjames_w: thanks!17:18
cjwatsonKeybuk: the only match for VT_ACTIVATE is in src/libply-splash-core/ply-terminal.c:set_active_vt17:18
pittibarry: for now, maybe you can make the backend crash and check whether the frontend does something sensible, like shutdown cleanly or respawn it, etc.?17:18
cjwatsonoh, the call to ply_terminal_activate_vt17:18
Keybukjames_w: why did the importer add a .pc directory?17:18
barrypitti: cool, thanks. :)  it's a bit of a short day for me today, but i will be around all day tomorrow to answer any questions17:18
cjwatsonply_terminal_activate_vt is also called from ./src/plugins/splash/{text,ubuntu-text,details}/plugin.c17:19
pittibarry: oh, and can you please expand on the string changes? they seem unrelated to the architecture change, etc.17:19
Keybukcjwatson: which, if used, should mean that vga16fb has been unloaded17:19
pittibarry: can these perhaps be reverted? string changes are expensive and detrimental at this point17:19
cjwatsonah, that's a piece of information I didn't know17:19
Keybukcjwatson: if we have a bug where falling back to, or even forcing the use of, a text plugin still means the graphical renderer is loaded/active - then we have a bug ;)17:20
barrypitti: sure.  i'll do so in the bug task17:20
cjwatsonKeybuk: right.  perfect.17:20
Keybukcjwatson: so the vga bits are definitely in the wrong place, I'll move those into flush_head as soon as james_w can clean up the mess the importer just made of the branch <g>17:21
Keybukcjwatson: but I think there's still this other bug where vga16fb is being loaded when it shouldn't be17:21
Keybuk(or not unloaded)17:21
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Keybukjames_w: *prod*17:47
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cjwatsonKeybuk: should pressing Ctrl-t (which toggles between PLY_TERMINAL_MODE_{TEXT,GRAPHICS}) also toggle whether the renderer plugin is unloaded/loaded?17:49
Keybukcjwatson: no17:50
KeybukCtrl-T is one of those curious debugging key presses nobody's supposed to know about ;)17:50
cjwatsonthe reason I ask is that ply_terminal_set_mode (PLY_TERMINAL_MODE_TEXT) would be an awfully convenient place to hook the unload in, since it's already called by all the text plugins17:51
KeybukI suspect you're going too far here17:52
cjwatsonI don't see how to avoid problems when the splash is selected explicitly, without involving something that the splash plugin calls17:52
KeybukI don't think you're following me17:55
Keybukor maybe I'm not understanding you17:56
cjwatsonwell, we need to either load the renderer plugin only once we're definitely running a splash that requires graphics, or unload the renderer plugin once we're definitely running a splash that requires text?17:57
Keybukno, not necessarily17:57
nixternalKeybuk: your post on kms couldn't come at a better time :)  what is your view on the themes for plymouth? I created the Kubuntu theme, and people with nvidia are crying foul with their wonderful $500 video cards displaying the most expensive set of 16 colors ever...should the theme be fairly lame to suit everyone, or should we keep a rockin' theme and tell the nvidia users with the issues to change to nouveau (as I am assuming nouveau do17:57
Keybukcjwatson: it may be simply true that the renderer is always loaded17:58
Keybukand thus the code in vga16fb is a mistake17:58
nixternalooh, I walked in at the perfect time here17:58
Keybukon looking closely, none of the other renderers assume the renderer is actually doing anything at vt activate time17:58
cjwatsonKeybuk: oh, well that was the assumption I started with, but you said that was wrong :-)17:58
Keybukcjwatson: ah, never assume that I'm always right :p17:58
cjwatsonso in that case, testing whether the vga registers are already mapped in activate() would be sufficient17:59
Keybuknixternal: in theory, you should be able to have a 16-color alternative to your theme by checking the color depth and stuff - but since we don't have one for ubuntu, I've never tested that - and the renderer might not work right17:59
Keybukcjwatson: yeah17:59
cjwatsonI don't think there's any need to map them right there, it'll presumably be done later if necessary17:59
Keybukcjwatson: or, as I said earlier, comparing to the other renderers - that kind of thing is probably better off done in flush_head()17:59
Keybukright, indeed, if you're right and the renderer is always loaded - then it'd be dangerous to map them there17:59
cjwatsonflush_head> mm, right, I see18:00
cjwatsonespecially seeing as that would put it right before setting KD_GRAPHICS18:00
Keybukcjwatson: which is where all the mode set stuff is actually done18:00
Keybukand we probably really want to set the vga regs after setting KD_GRAPHICS18:00
Keybukin case the switch to that corrupts them again18:00
cjwatsonwell, it's only the ioperm and mmap that were missing really18:00
cjwatsonthat could be done before KD_GRAPHICS18:01
KeybukI think the ioperm and mmap are done in the right place18:01
Keybukthey're done on map_to_device18:01
KeybukI think it's the vga regs fiddling that's in the wrong place18:01
Keybukinstead of on vt activation, they should be done on flush head18:01
Keybukwhich would put them in the right place18:01
Keybuk(and would still mean they're called on vt activate, since activate calls the flush head function if the device was mapped)18:02
cjwatsonoh!  right, I see what you mean now18:02
cjwatsonthe last piece then would be http://paste.ubuntu.com/406626/ to ensure that the existing guard in activate behaves correctly18:03
Keybukthe same change will need to be made to drm and frame-buffer probably :p18:04
cjwatsonframe-buffer looks OK18:05
cjwatsonI'm going to freely admit to not understanding drm18:05
cody-somervillepitti, I just got from Apport: "The problem report is damaged and got not be processed. IOError(13, 'Permission Denied')."18:05
cody-somervillepitti, I wonder if its because the application crashed again after that report was generated.18:06
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|capoeira
cody-somervillepitti, Eww... the dialogue telling me some packages are out of date doesn't show up in my taskbar or task switcher.18:06
* cody-somerville goes and files a bug about that one.18:06
Keybukcjwatson: are you sure?  frame-buffer looks to have the exact same bug to me18:08
cjwatsonoh, the map_address bit, duh18:08
Keybukactivate() will call flush_head() if it hasn't been mapped to the device yet18:08
Keybuk(cause I stole most of the code out of frame-buffer to write vga16fb obv.)18:09
Keybukdrm looks ok though18:09
Keybuksince it just iterates the list of heads18:09
cjwatsonyes, you're right of course18:09
Keybukwhich is empty18:09
cndpitti: I'm trying to propose new changes for linux-firmware-nonfree using bzr+lp. I branched lp:ubuntu/linux-firmware-nonfree, made commits, pushed to ~chasedouglas/lucid/linux-firmware-nonfree, but now when I go to propose a merge back into lp:ubuntu/linux-firmware-nonfree it says "This branch is not mergeable into lp:ubuntu/linux-firmware-nonfree"18:09
cjwatsonshall I commit this and send upstream, or would you rather wait for VCS fiddling first?18:09
cndpitti: any ideas?18:10
Keybukcjwatson: commit and send upstream ;-)18:10
KeybukI'm not sure whether the .pc issue is deliberate or not - seems to do no harm18:10
cjwatson.pc is a difficult issue with 3.0 (quilt) packages; I commented on it in my blog recently18:11
cjwatsonif you don't include it (which is my practice), then you have to run a rune after VCS checkout in order to be able to work on the quilt patches, although everything else works OK18:11
cjwatsonif you include it, then you end up with weird extra junk in commits18:12
cjwatson(that touch the quilt patches)18:12
Keybukdo you have to bzr add the stuff inside it?18:12
Keybukit's confusing me because I don't have quilt patches18:12
cjwatsonmm, the difficult thing here is that you have format 3.0 (quilt) and you have a delta against upstream, so dpkg-source thinks it needs to generate an automatic quilt patch expressing the upstream diff18:13
cjwatsonunless you're actually going to maintain those patches as quilt patches, then TBH I think you would be better off declaring format 1.0 right now18:14
cjwatsonyou're in a sort of halfway house18:14
KeybukI can't declare format 1.0 though18:15
Keybukbecause some of the added files are .pngs18:15
cjwatsonoh.  joy18:15
geserpitti: if you have some time: could you check if lp-shell from lp:ubuntu-dev-tools still works for you as expected? I've pimped it a little bit: it now supports all known LP instances, all known API versions, anonymous login and tab-completion for objects :)18:15
Riddellpitti: seems lex79 found the cause of bug 52890718:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 528907 in hal "unable to mount disks in dolphin / hal permission denied" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52890718:16
cjwatsonKeybuk: it would help to put 'single-debian-patch' in debian/source/options, so that the patch name doesn't change with every upload18:16
Keybukcjwatson: can you do that ;-)18:16
cjwatsonI'm not really sure what will happen with the .pc file - I suspect you may find it's better off removed, but I guess there's no harm experimenting18:17
Keybukif I remove it, the importer will just keep putting it back, no?18:18
cjwatsononly for uploads not tagged in bzr18:19
Keybukso better to just leave it and ignore it, surely?18:19
cjwatsonmaybe, I'm concerned that it will get stale in some odd ways18:20
cjwatsonlike I say though, it would probably be interesting to try it out and see what the failure modes are anyway18:20
Keybukif there's an issue with this being there, then the importer shouldn't add it ;-)18:20
cjwatson10% of Debian is using 3.0 (quilt) now, a bunch of them probably non-trivially, and we need to gain experience of various ways of handling this in bzr18:20
KeybukI do find it sad/amusing/depressing/typical that Debian standardised on the most painful patch management system they could find (quilt)18:21
Keybuksurprised Format 3.0 didn't mandate YADA as well18:21
cjwatsonhm, I actually find quilt works pretty well for this myself, YMevidentlyV :-)18:21
cjwatsonthe only thing I ever found painful about it totally went away when I discovered 'quilt shell'18:21
Keybukit probably depends whether you separate changes out into little discreet boxes18:22
Keybukor just commit as you go18:22
cjwatsonI think dropping .pc is probably the right answer, but if we do that then we need to solve http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=572204 somehow, either in dpkg-dev or somewhere else18:23
ubottuDebian bug 572204 in dpkg-dev "dpkg-dev: maintainer workflow problems with 3.0 (quilt) and VCS" [Wishlist,Open]18:23
macoKeybuk: i found a website thats like a cheat sheet for how to survive adding a patch to a package using quilt. was VERY happy18:23
Keybukcjwatson: but as we just did; I can't drop it - any upload will mean the importer puts it back18:25
Keybukso the importer should not add it18:25
cjwatsonKeybuk: dropping .pc: I mean in the importer18:25
Keybukah right18:26
cjwatsonbut, right now, if the importer drops it, you can only work on an auto-imported 3.0 (quilt) package properly if you happen to have a copy of my dpkg-quilt-setup rune lying around18:26
cjwatsonor something equivalent18:26
Keybukthat also seems pessimal18:26
cjwatson(the importer would need to .bzrignore it as well)18:26
Keybuksince the idea is that bzr co and dpkg-source -x give identical results18:26
Keybuk(since one day we won't have sources to -x)18:26
cjwatsonsomebody on debian-dpkg@ suggested that maybe there should be a quilt command to set up the .pc directory, in which case perhaps we could nobble bzr to call it on checkout18:28
KeybukI guess the other side18:29
Keybukdoes the importer import the result of unpacking the package18:29
Keybukor the result of dpkg-source -x?18:29
Keybukbecause if the latter, then the patches *are already applied*18:29
cjwatsonthe patches really ought to be already applied.  this is good, it makes bzr blame useful18:29
Keybukwhich surely makes quilt annoyingly hard, since you have the "can't reverse the patch because it's changed since" problem18:29
cjwatsonworks fine18:30
Keybukhow does it work fine?18:30
Keybuklet's say I checkout a source18:30
Keybukand I edit it18:30
Keybukand I upload18:30
cjwatsonyou refresh the patch after making your changes18:30
Keybukwhere does my diff go?18:30
Keybukno quilt commands involved in the above18:31
cjwatsonlet me rephrase: if you're actually *using* quilt, rather than trying to ignore it, then it works fine18:31
KeybukI'm neither actually using quilt, or trying to ignore it18:31
cjwatsonin your case, dpkg-source would generate one of these automated patches18:32
cjwatsonso it would end up in debian/patches/debian-changes, as well as applied to the checkout18:32
Keybukshould we not rename that to ubuntu-changes for our uploads OOI?18:32
Keybuka package could then conceivably have debian-changes & ubuntu-changes18:32
Keybukok, that makes sense18:32
cjwatsonI don't have much of an opinion but my "gratuitous incompatibility" light is going off :-)18:32
Keybukbut then don't you run into the issue where, in order to refresh a patch, you first have to pop all the others off18:33
pittigeser: great work! looks fine here18:33
Keybukand you have to push them all back again18:33
cjwatsonif we did that, it should be done upstream and wired into dpkg's vendor mechanism18:33
lex79pitti: should I disable also 01_at_console.patch ?18:33
Keybukotherwise you can end up committing some very very weird changes18:33
pittilex79: noo18:33
Keybukcjwatson: I don't think it's any different to our dch behaviour18:33
cjwatsonyes, but personally I'm fine with that18:33
pittilex79: this would break everything18:33
cjwatsonit means that I keep useful patch files that are forwardable upstream as coherent units18:33
pitticnd: hm, not really; james_w might?18:33
cjwatsonand can be described with DEP-3 headers18:34
pitticody-somerville: hm, mind filing a bug with the details, which app crashed, etc.?18:34
Keybukcjwatson: right, what I mean is you might accidentally commit an intermediate step?18:34
cjwatsonI've found this invaluable in getting a handle on openssh's upstream delta18:34
* pitti -> off for supermarket/dinner, bbl18:34
KeybukI could commit the result of popping patches18:34
Keybukrather then the result of refreshing a patch partway down the stack18:34
cjwatsonmm, perhaps there should be some kind of pre-commit hook to prevent that18:34
Keybukright, that's along the lines I was thinking18:34
Keybukhave bzr check whether the package is sane18:35
cjwatsondifferent from dch> I think the difference is that dpkg already has a vendor mechanism, so it would be worth using it18:35
Keybukcjwatson: I don't disagree18:35
cjwatsonso that our derivatives automatically get debian-changes ubuntu-changes mint-changes or whatever18:35
KeybukI'm just thinking that in practice, where a package has debian-changes already18:35
Keybukwe really don't want to modify that patch18:35
Keybukthat's wrong18:35
Keybukwe want to add ubuntu-changes on top18:35
Keybukand in very much practice, our packages should have ubuntu-changes where there were none before18:35
cjwatsonI don't really have practical experience of this, since everything I've touched using 3.0 (quilt) has been using specifically named patches instead18:36
Keybukbecause otherwise Debian will whinge about us claiming they changed things that we really changed :p18:36
KeybukI guess it varies with workflow18:36
Keybukall my packages are directly based off trunk/release branches18:36
Keybukso I can pull/merge directly from HEAD, etc.18:36
cjwatsonfrex, ubuntu/openssh has 39 Debian patches, and then a "# Ubuntu additions" section at the end of debian/patches/series with two Ubuntu patches at the end18:36
Keybukso for me, I find that treating the ubuntu branch simply as a branch is the best way18:36
Keybukso the commits I commit to ubuntu are directly equivalent to the commits that I would commit to trunk anyway18:37
Keybukso are thus directly equivalent to the patches I'd send upstream18:37
Keybukin theory, I could run "git format-patch" over an ubuntu branch of a package I maintain, and mail the lot upstream18:37
cjwatsonI tend to 'quilt new foo.patch; quilt shell; bzr merge; exit; quilt refresh'18:37
Keybukexcept bzr doesn't have that command ;)18:37
cjwatsonbzr send --git18:37
Keybukcjwatson: nowhere near the same thing18:38
cjwatsonyeah, ok :)18:38
Keybukhuh - you add a merge as a patch?! :p18:38
cjwatsonsorry, reflex response18:38
cjwatsonI do that because it means I can tell apart things that aren't backports from upstream from things that are18:38
Keybukfunny isn't it18:38
Keybukwe've invented a brand new system18:38
cjwatsonand I can put a DEP-3 header at the top of the patch saying it's a merge from upstream and where it comes from and why18:38
Keybuka single way of doing bzr based source packages18:39
Keybukand the two of us already do them in wildly different ways <g>18:39
cody-somervillepitti, kk, will do18:40
Keybukdpkg-source: info: building plymouth using existing ./plymouth_0.8.1.orig.tar.gz18:40
Keybukdpkg-source: error: cannot read plymouth-0.8.1.orig.B9r5y0/debian/patches/debian-changes-0.8.1-1ubuntu3: No such file or directory18:40
Keybukcjwatson: ^18:40
cjwatsonoh, I forgot to change series, sorry18:40
Keybukanother bzr wishlist, bzr commit --amend ;)18:40
KeybukWFM now18:42
cjwatsonhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/man-db/lucid/annotate/head%3A/debian/patches/man-l-assertion.patch - I find this more useful documentation than a simple merge, FWIW18:42
cjwatsonparticularly given the lack of useful cherry-pick recording in zr18:42
Keybukbut surely that's the same text you'd put in the commit log?18:42
KeybukI guess again it depends on your POV :p18:45
cjwatsonKeybuk: it's more usefully exposed to people coming along and looking later - I had very clear feedback from a number of people about openssh that the commit log was too hard to wade through when they were trying to audit changes18:45
cjwatsonall the information was there, but it was hard to find18:45
james_wsorry, was at lunch18:45
Keybukcjwatson: patches in ubuntu for me are either backports from trunk, or too scraggy to go upstream yet18:46
Keybukbut I look at trunk first18:46
KeybukI 95% of the time work on trunk18:46
Keybukand get around to updating the packaging branch later18:46
Keybukeven with Plymouth, I do all my testing on plymouth upstream GIT, not the ubuntu package branch :p18:46
james_wthe importer aims to import the same as dpkg-source -x, but I realise that format 3.0 makes this bad in some cases18:46
james_wbut not doing it is also bad18:46
james_wcnd: so you apparently pushed in to the lucid project on LP18:47
james_wcnd: you need to push to ~chasedouglas/ubuntu/lucid/linux-firmware-nonfree/<some descriptive branch name>18:48
cndjames_w: ok, I'll give that a try18:48
cndjames_w: looks like that fixed it, thanks :)18:57
cjwatsonKeybuk: I expect that the convergence between our two ways of working will be via looms18:58
cjwatsonKeybuk: and some kind of per-thread rather than per-commit log, to generate the DEP-3 header18:59
cjwatsonbut I'm not up for using those in production yet18:59
KeybukI still think that "bzr loomify" should output something19:06
Keybuk$ bzr loomify19:06
KeybukWelcome to the age of the Great Guilds!19:07
Keybuk^ lifeless: you should make it so ;-)19:07
cjwatsonKeybuk: is there an upstream patch pending somewhere for the vga16fb renderer?19:07
Keybukcjwatson: no, not yet19:08
cjwatsonok, I'll just send this for frame-buffer then19:08
Keybukyup :)19:08
zulslangasek: can you have a look at #506985 and comment on it please? when you get a chance of course19:09
slangasekKeybuk: bug #551062 = 530779 - where does that leave us for lucid?  Should the upstart task be targeted to lucid, or do we need to remove / suppress the nih_warn() from mountall?19:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 551062 in plymouth "mountall: Could not connect to plymouth (dup-of: 530779)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55106219:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 530779 in upstart "init: does not wait for parent to exit when following forks" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53077919:31
slangasek(there's also the infinitesimal risk that the race catches just not the initial plymouth connection attempt, but also a subsequent one when mountall has something important to say)19:31
slangaseks/just not/not just/19:31
slangasekzul: looking19:31
zulslangasek: thanks19:32
slangasekKeybuk: oh; reading more closely, I see you're taking out the initial connect, ok - when is that landing?19:32
=== radoe_ is now known as radoe
cody-somervillenixternal, You wrote '4' instead of 'for'. How ghetto! :P19:36
sladenha. "A spiffy aubergine paint job won't sell cars whose clutch, brake and accelerator pedals have been shuffled about and mounted in the passenger-side footwell."19:36
LaserJockI don't know, maybe Toyota should try it19:37
LaserJock"we know your brakes and accelerators don't work properly, but it's aubergine!!"19:38
Keybukslangasek: tomorrow I think19:38
slangasek"clutch"?  how insulting, Ubuntu is clearly an automatic and *still* gets better gas mileage19:38
slangasekKeybuk: ok19:38
KeybukI think it's pretty hard for the real mountall-has-something-important to miss the connection being opened19:39
slangasekKeybuk: with the current architecture, I agree; when you've redone the main loop, I don't know :)19:40
slangasekzul: sorry, I was assuming I'd find an FFe here, and it's not :) what part do you want comments on?19:41
Keybukslangasek: that bit shouldn't change ;)19:41
zulslangasek: i was wondering how you handle it?19:42
slangasekKeybuk: do you want me to undupe 551062 and assign it to mountall so you can get the credit in the QA team's kudos report? :)19:42
slangasekzul: hm, at the moment I'm not sure how you're hitting this code path - karmic shipped with rabbitmq-server 1.6.0, which is supposed to be supported; hardy didn't ship it; 1.5.4 shipped with jaunty, but jaunty->lucid upgrades are never supported19:43
zulslangasek: i think the LOSA are installing it manually on the servers19:44
Keybukslangasek: not really ;)19:45
Keybukit's only another bug number to waste half an hour trying to look up before inevitably mistyping it in the changelog anyway <g>19:46
slangasekKeybuk: heh19:46
slangasekKeybuk: would be real easy to look up, it'd be assigned to you and targeted to beta2 :-P19:46
Keybukslangasek: I have 2,400 unread mails in my LP folder19:46
KeybukI daren't go in there19:46
Keybukas far as I know, there are dozens of bugs assigned to me and targeted19:46
KeybukI treat such things like I treat bank statements19:47
Keybukif I don't open them and look, then I sleep better at night19:47
slangasekzul: so in that case, I think a reasonable solution within the distro is to make sure the package complains loudly and the admin should fix it up by hand; I don't think the distro package should be trying to find a general solution for a very specific backport scenario19:48
zulslangasek: great thats what we thought as well19:49
slangasekKeybuk: surely it's more effective to open them and ask your teammates^W friends to take some bugs^W^W^W^W for a loan /before/ you're overdrawn :)19:50
Keybukyeah but then I have to pay them back later ;)19:51
KeybukI really don't look at LP much19:51
KeybukI write down bugs in a notebook, and work off that day-to-day19:51
KeybukI find new bugs by going through the bug list of packages I care about19:51
Keybukso I really don't pay much attention to the whole assigned to thing19:51
KeybukI used to19:52
Keybukbut then LP got a whole lot slower19:52
Keybukand mdz insisted we all be bug contacts for packages19:52
Keybukso now I just get too much e-mail to read19:52
KeybukI worked it out, if I actually read every mail from LP, I'd finish for the day without ever getting any work done19:52
* slangasek notes that https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.assignee=scott is quite quick to load (and quite short) :)19:53
Keybukslangasek: also I find ignoring things has a useful side-effect19:53
Keybukpeople then *talk to me* about their bugs directly :p19:53
Keybukwhat's even funnier about that list is that the only bug on it has apparently been fixed by someone other than me <g>19:54
slangasekKeybuk: yeah - can I upload that?  It's causing problems for kirkland in upgrade testing19:56
Keybukslangasek: you haven't even committed it yet fwict, despite what the bug status says19:56
Keybukoh, no, it is there19:56
Keybukbut yes, sure, upload away19:57
kirklandslangasek: cheers, dude, thanks!19:57
slangasekKeybuk: btw, at a glance it appears to me that plymouth now fails entirely on an initramfs-less system, due to relying on /dev/pts; any thoughts on resolving this?19:59
Keybukslangasek: it shouldn't fail - it should just not redirect console20:00
slangasekKeybuk: oh, then I think the fallback is broken20:00
slangasekbefore upgrading initramfs-tools, I saw plymouth fail in both the initramfs *and* the root20:01
Keybukplease debug and fix ;)20:02
slangasekyep, will look20:03
cjwatsonKeybuk: just to be clear, is the vga16fb flush_head fix on your plate, or on mine?20:14
Keybukcjwatson: oh, it can be on mine if you like20:14
cjwatsonI'm happy either way, just don't want it to get lost20:14
Keybukbut if you have the patch just commit to our branch20:14
cjwatsonok, I have the test case in front of me so I'll JFDI then20:15
cjwatson(this is all in aid of making sure we have init.d output on server, if you hadn't guessed)20:15
Keybukexcept for the lack of init.d output ;)20:15
sebnerjdstrand: thanks for you work on twiki and moin :)20:16
cjwatsonyeah, but you explained the bit that was involved there on Friday20:16
cjwatsonso I can at least advance-test it20:16
Keybukyeah, either adding console output to the rc.conf or changing the default20:16
jdstrandsebner: sure thing! :)20:16
jdstrandsebner: thanks for your work on them :)20:16
* sebner hugs jdstrand :)20:16
cjwatsonKeybuk: BTW, moving all this into flush_head isn't going to make it ridiculously slow or anything is it?20:17
Keybukit's just making sure that the VGA is in the right drawing mode20:17
cody-somervillemvo, Is there any way to tell apt to forget about conflicts and what not and just download everything?20:18
mvocody-somerville: like every package in the repository?20:18
cody-somervillemvo, No, just the packages requested and all the other packages it would normally download as dependencies or recommends.20:19
slangasekcjwatson, Keybuk: that doesn't happen to fix any of our vga16fb segfaults, does it?20:20
Keybukslangasek: that might be the segfault yes20:20
mvocody-somerville: you could just do "apt-get install -d 4g8 -o Dir::state::status=/tmp/empty-file"20:20
cjwatsonslangasek: it fixes *a* vga16fb segfault20:20
slangasekok :)20:20
cjwatsonslangasek: I couldn't accurately tie it down to the ones I saw in LP20:20
mvocody-somerville: then it will act as if you had a empty system20:21
cjwatsonslangasek: if you can, feel free to annotate20:21
slangasekcjwatson, Keybuk: also, is there an outcome to the 3.0 (quilt) workflow discussion that I should be aware of when working on this package in the future?20:21
cjwatsonit should be pretty clear, the segfault was in activate() when calling vga_*20:21
cody-somervillemvo, but it'll still die if you try to specify packages that conflict each other.20:21
Keybukslangasek: no, I think we fixed it20:21
slangasek"fixed it" - so I just do what I was doing before and everything is Happi?20:21
mvocody-somerville: well, you could dividie it into non-conflicting partitions? what is the use-case? a python-apt script can do with that as well20:22
slangasekKeybuk: ok, cool20:22
Keybukwell, cjwatson adding more quilt options20:24
Keybukso you should be safe to ignore the .pc thing20:24
Keybukthough I expect it'll get wildly out of date repeatedly20:24
Keybukbut that shouldn't matter too much, since the source uploads will be fine20:24
cjwatsonyeah, all I really did was keep importer-induced skew to a minimum20:25
cjwatsoncody-somerville: you could use 'aptitude download', if all you want is "give me the .debs damnit"20:26
cody-somervilleInteresting idea.20:27
mvooh yeah, aptitude download will work too, if you just need a single deb20:27
cody-somervilleI want dependencies and recommends to get downloaded automatically too.20:27
psusiso... what is replacing hal?21:07
sorenpsusi: Monkeys.21:08
psusilol... seriously... wasn't it responsible for say, auto mounting a usb stick and launching a nautilus window to browse it?21:08
psusiwhat does that now?21:08
psusinevermind.... reading about it now on the wiki... devicekit eh?  hrm...21:15
cndslangasek: I'm looking into bug 551527, where nouveau through display port hangs plymouth21:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 551527 in linux "Dualhead NVidia Mac Mini (3,1) does not boot on clean Lucid beta 1 install" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55152721:15
cndgot any ideas what could be going wrong?21:15
cndit could also be nouveau + external monitor, I'm not real sure21:16
slangasekcnd: is that bug #533135?21:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 533135 in plymouth "System fails to boot with plymouth installed (nouveau driver with >1 display)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53313521:16
cndslangasek: ahh, should have done a dupe search first...21:17
cndslangasek: anything I can do to help?21:17
slangasekcnd: sure, you can dive into the DRM driver and figure out what's going wrong :)21:18
cndheh, I was afraid of that :)21:18
slangasekthe plymouth DRM backend is only used on nouveau with multiple display outputs21:18
cndslangasek: how can I debug plymouth to figure out what it's doing?21:18
cndhmmm, ok21:19
slangasekthere are some debugging options you can set on the kernel commandline, but I don't know how useful any of them are going to be to you for this21:19
slangasekplymouth:debug, e.g.21:19
slangasekcnd: actually, assuming plymouth:debug tells you anything useful about DRM, adding plymouth:debug=file:/dev/plymouth-drm-debug.log to the kernel commandline is probably a good place to start21:22
cndslangasek: thanks, I'll look into that21:22
cndI'll also try the latest upstream nouveau, which will be a challenge in and of itself due to kernel->userspace abi changes :(21:23
gtlzalright, who broke gnome in lucid21:38
medexHow come something like this "sudo bash -s "echo bird | passwd root; su""  drops one to a root prompt?21:40
meanburrito920Does anyone here know how many slots Ubuntu has for GSoC students?21:54
tjaaltonseems like armel buildd's fail to generate -dbg packages21:54
jpdsmeanburrito920: Best person to talk to is dholbach.22:11
lifelesspersia: pnig22:23
Gaming4JCHey all, I want to know why wvdial was dropped from LiveCD and if we can get it back before Lucid launch.22:37
ubottuUbuntu bug 400573 in wvdial "[include in live-cd] wvdial (1.60.1+nmu2)" [Wishlist,New]22:37
Gaming4JC93 million Americans still use dial-up (recent survey at a webmaster site) and no one can connect on ubuntu without going on a package hunt in the repos from a windows box.22:38
Gaming4JCsuch a pity.22:38
beunoGaming4JC, I'm pretty sure finding a package is going to be the least of their problems if they have dial up22:39
beunooooops, sorry, thought this was on a different channel22:39
beunoignore me, please22:39
Gaming4JCI use dial-up and let me tell you, once you've removed those packages it's a complete pain. lol. :P22:39
beunoI thought this was in #ubuntuone22:40
beunoI'm tired   :)22:40
Gaming4JCah :)22:40
slangasekGaming4JC: it was dropped because there's no UI for it, so it's not useful to have it installed by default.  It might make sense to put it back in the package repo that ships on the CD so that users who need it (and can make heads or tails of it) can install it from there22:42
Gaming4JCthat would be the least you could do. :)22:43
Gaming4JCAlso, gnome-ppp is a great gui - I've no idea why it's not on the repo either22:43
slangasekthat's for the desktop team to say; though it's a little late in the cycle to be evaluating new UI components for release-worthiness22:43
LaserJockI'm guessing the least they could do is remove wvdial from the archives altogether, hello tarball :-)22:43
slangasekactually, the *least* I could do would be to ignore this discussion entirely, but that wouldn't be very helpful :)22:44
beunoslangasek, that ship has sailed22:44
slangasekbeuno: not necessarily, I could ignore the discussion going forward :-)22:45
* beuno senses an infinite loop approaching22:46
Gaming4JCLaserjock: I presume they have plans on that. :P22:46
slangasekcjwatson: ^^ do you see any reason not to put wvdial in the ship-live seed?  (Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an analogous component in platform to add this to)22:52
cjwatsonit sounds exactly the sort of thing that's meant to live in that category22:52
CaesarThere's something all shagged with the GNOME packages right now, right?22:53
cjwatson"stuff you need to get online"22:53
CaesarI'm seeing gnome-panel being uninstallable, but I'm failing to see the good reason yet22:53
slangasekcjwatson: yah.  Only concern is that wvdial + deps is ~920k22:54
* slangasek scopes out where we are wrt langpack seeding22:55
Gaming4JConly 920 oh so precious kb. :)22:55
slangasekGaming4JC: it's a CD, after all; space is not an infinite resource22:56
slangasekGaming4JC: we *do* include wvdial on the DVD22:56
Caesarslangasek: are CDs (not DVDs) still the primary unit of concern?22:56
CaesarThis whole offline sneakernet thing seems so last decade anyway22:56
slangasekCaesar: it appears to be so for Gaming4JC, else I don't think he would be inquiring :)22:56
slangasekCaesar: anyway, if you're on dial-up, I'm doubly-sure you don't want to download a DVD ISO22:57
Caesarslangasek: yeah. I guess there's still people without infrastructure to net boot22:57
Gaming4JCtotally agree. :D22:57
CaesarThere needs to be some sort of WAN PXE boot22:57
slangasek(the size difference between CD and DVD does have a non-negligible impact on our milestone validation)22:57
DktrKranzslangasek: hi! if you plan to do some archive-admin work, mind adding python-multiprocessing to sync-blacklist, so we know for sure we won't get it in Lucid + 1? TIA22:59
slangasekGaming4JC: ultimately, it would be far better if we could replace wvdial, with its entire set of NIH library dependencies, with a network-manager component that does the job; we don't seem to have such a thing in the archive today22:59
slangasekDktrKranz: noted22:59
* Caesar glances over at libnih22:59
slangasekCaesar: it's so ironic it's hip22:59
Gaming4JCslangasek: Yes, that would be more logical. However, gnome-network-manger has several bug reports filed against it for not supporting dial-up anymore either as you probably know.23:00
slangasekCaesar: anyway, the whole upstart package is smaller than libwvstreams4.6-extras :)23:00
* Gaming4JC considers this unbelievable... 23:00
Caesarslangasek: fair enough23:01
slangasekGaming4JC: to be honest, my solution to the last problem I had with dial-up was to talk my dad into getting DSL23:01
slangasekGaming4JC: and that was with gutsy - so no, I'm not current wrt bug reports on gnome-network-manager23:01
Gaming4JCslangasek: I'd love to. Sadly, where I live we have no mobile, broadband, or dsl access.23:02
Gaming4JCI gave up after asking my local government who also said "we can't do anything".23:02
slangasekah, clearly you need to put in a bid for Google Fiber23:03
Gaming4JCoh and just ask my neighbors about Huesnet, it's pretty epic when I'm still online and they aren't.  ^^23:03
Gaming4JCGoogle Fiber? :D23:03
* Gaming4JC googles23:03
Gaming4JCoff-topic: THAT LOOKS SWEEEETTTT23:06
* Gaming4JC signs up :D23:06
* Gaming4JC is sad to find... the deadline is up23:06
=== sconklin is now known as sconklin-gone
slangasekthat, and I hear the application process involves either a) debasing yourself on Youtube, or b) getting your mayor to shamelessly rename your community after Google for a day... :)23:07
Gaming4JC"We'll collect responses until March 26, and will announce our target communities later this year. Stay tuned."23:09
Gaming4JCIs that typical or what <_<23:09
Gaming4JCHmm another question, any chance of getting "dexux" package into the online repo? :)23:15
slangasekGaming4JC: the numbers seem to work out; doing a test build now, if it fits as expected then wvdial will be on the CD for beta223:16
Gaming4JCslangasek: Thanks, if it does you're a life saver. :D23:16
slangasekGaming4JC: dexux> you should file a bug against ubuntu in Launchpad and tag it 'needs-packaging'23:18
Gaming4JCslangasek: Okie dokie. :)23:18
slangasekRiddell, nixternal: does Kubuntu have any replacement for wvdial's functionality on the desktop, or would we ideally seed it in ship-live over there as well?23:18
slangasekah, liveCD build snagged on the gnome installability issue, which I shall now investigate23:19
nixternalcody-somerville: yeah, I saw that earlier after I sent out the email....Hey, I am from Chicago, we are a bit ghetto here :)23:19
nixternalslangasek: i don't know if kde still has a wvdial frontend/functionality...haven't used wvdial since...ummm...the 90s maybe :)23:20
* nixternal looks23:20
slangaseknixternal: well, it's not currently using wvdial /on/ the CD, but there might be a replacement I'm unfamiliar with23:21
Gaming4JCKDE use k-ppp, I think that's the a frontend for wvdial but I haven't used it much to know. Also, k-ppp was removed recently as well...23:21
nixternalyeah, that was it...ok, so it is still around then23:22
slangasekCaesar: so I assume your gnome installability problem is on amd64?23:22
cjwatsonkppp is still in the archive for lucid23:22
slangasekcjwatson: can you bump the build score for gnome-panel/amd64?23:22
nixternalyeah, kppp is installed out of the box with kubuntu23:22
cjwatsonit does not appear to depend on wvdial23:22
cjwatsonslangasek: done23:23
* Gaming4JC might switch to Kubuntu... if it comes with working kppp23:23
Gaming4JCUbuntu is so much nicer though ^_^23:24
slangasekDktrKranz: blah, so why does python-multiprocessing keep getting reuploaded to Debian and when is it going away?23:29
slangasekDktrKranz: blacklisted23:30
Caesarslangasek: yes, amd6423:35
Caesar(we only tend to care about amd64 these days)23:35
CaesarAha, I see23:36
CaesarSo I need to wait for the next archive run?23:37
CaesarIs there somewhere I can get visibility into the autobuilder-equivalents, for future enlightenment?23:37
cjwatsonit should all be visible - which bit?23:38
cjwatsonhttps://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel had links to build records, in this case23:38
* Caesar looks23:39
cjwatsonor  rmadison -u ubuntu  is useful23:39
CaesarYeah, I used rmadison after slangasek mentioned amd6423:39
cjwatsonand https://launchpad.net/builders/ has a buildd activity overview23:39
=== MacSlow|capoeira is now known as MacSlo
=== MacSlo is now known as MacSlow
CaesarI mean I'd naively assume from what I saw with rmadison that the next archive run would solve my problem, but I wanted to know how to be sure23:40
cjwatsonanything uploaded (unless it needs to go through NEW) before the top of the hour will be in ACCEPTED for the publisher run at :0323:40
cjwatsonand should generally be world-visible by :45 or so23:41
CaesarVery cool23:41
CaesarSo the archive changes hourly?23:41
jpdsIt gets published hourly.23:42
cjwatsonthis applies except in the hour of 0400 (and possibly 0500) UTC, when it tends to be busy generating Contents files instead23:42
CaesarWe really need to do something about our internal mirroring :-(23:42
jpds[Mirrors are generally asked to sync every 6 hours].23:42
Caesarjpds: right23:43
CaesarBut if our last 6 hourly sync was bogus, we have a long time until it gets de-bogusified23:43
jpdsCaesar: How are you mirroring? rsync?23:46
Caesarjpds: currently HTTP, but I want to get it swapped over to rsync in the next couple of days23:48
lifelessoh oh oh I smell beta tester23:49
CaesarFYI it looks like lithium.canonical.com doesn't have its rsync configured the same way as drescher, prat and jackass. #ubuntu-mirrors for that?23:53
elmothe configs are identical AFAICT23:55
elmowhat are you seeing?23:55
Caesarelmo: no banner from lithium23:56

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