[00:00] glad to see someone picked up on bzr commit --fixes :) [00:02] dutchie: :) [00:03] now I get to scroll back through 8 hours of irc logs and see if I missed anything interesting. :) [00:03] * dutchie thinks quickshot could do with its own channel [00:03] dutchie: re: the rosetta issues.. we've just given up on that, basically? [00:04] until writing freeze [00:04] it probably could these days. [00:04] well, I meant the issue with the translations not being marked fuzzy or whatever. [00:04] the bug got commented on earlier [00:04] I can't remember why [00:05] Someone remarked on it just complaining that it hasn't been fixed and it's been broken for years. they also asked if there were better tools to use than rosetta (that would handle the string comparison better) [00:06] ah, have you got a link handy? [00:06] ah, nm [00:06] bug 535371 [00:06] Launchpad bug 535371 in ubuntu-manual "Translations keep disappearing" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/535371 [00:08] it's a difficult problem [00:09] it might make more sense to declare the manual as open for translations only after the writing freeze [00:09] then we could work without the translators breathing down our necks === dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | STRING FREEZE in less than 24 hours | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | TODO LIST: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F === dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | STRING FREEZE in less than 24 hours | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | TODO LIST: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F [00:11] bloody superfluous spaces [00:13] * dutchie heads to bed [00:13] night [00:13] dutchie: g'night. [00:29] are any of the quickshot guys still around? [00:41] Hi. [00:41] Need me, godbyk? [00:43] * Red_HamsterX wanders off to eat. [02:09] * godbyk signs [02:09] * godbyk sighs [02:09] * godbyk gives hand-sign to his isp [02:09] stupid internet connection. [02:10] Red_HamsterX: still around? [02:11] Hi. [02:19] My connection dropped. Sorry about that. [02:19] Here's what I attempted to say earlier: [02:20] Hey, Red_HamsterX. Per your earlier discussion about unifying the hostnames for the screenshots. I think it's a good idea. [02:20] You don't need to change the hostname, though -- just change the prompt itself. [02:22] argh! [02:22] ? [02:23] Unifying hostnames? [02:23] Oh, oyu mean the Bash prompts? [02:23] Prefix with a p1 export? [02:23] assignment* [02:24] PS1* [02:25] connection dropped again. [02:25] FML [02:25] Red_HamsterX: what messages of mine did you get? (if any) [02:25] Red_HamsterX: yes [02:25] Red_HamsterX: use $PS1 instead of actually changing the hostname. [02:26] I got everything through "argh!" [02:26] Setting PS1 while launching gnome-terminal doesn't seem to be working... [02:26] I think it's re-reading bash_rc or something. [02:27] PS1='quickshot@quickshot:~$' gnome-terminal [02:27] That's what I tried. [02:28] It updated the working context, but it did nothing to the child. [02:28] (So pre-emptively setting it on launch wouldn't work) [02:28] Even exporting it is failing. [02:28] gnome-terminal rereads .bashrc or .bash_profile (I forget which one). [02:29] But as long as you're creating the user, you can set the .bashrc to contain whatever you like [02:29] I suppose we could edit that directly as part of the installation/on-load process. [02:29] Yeah. Just >> the string. [02:29] I'll try that. [02:29] echo "export PS1='quickshot@quickshot:~$'" >> .bashrc [02:29] during login or something [02:29] We're definitely going to need to excise all the Ubuntu-specific stuff from this thing when we start rebuilding it. [02:30] * Red_HamsterX hates tightly coupled designs. [02:33] Yep. Seem to working as expected. [02:33] Great idea, godbyk. :) [02:33] cool [02:34] only took me two hours to get it out. :-) [02:35] Call your ISP and say you need to speak with network operations regarding spam or something, then start complaining. [02:35] You'll almost certainly reach someone capable. [02:36] I'm guessing it's a problem in the cable. (It's a cable ISP.) [02:36] I had a tech out here last week and he replaced some splitters with barrel connectors, but didn't test the signal strength afterward because he'd already taken his meter back to the truck. [02:36] Doesn't matter. Escalate it to someone who doesn't normally hear about these things. [02:36] I figured, okay, we'll see if that fixes it. [02:36] Well, it didn't [02:37] So now I'm going to have to have a tech come out again and actually test the line all the way through this time. [02:37] My signal strength is pretty weak here, too. :( [02:37] When the Internet is up, the speeds are good. [02:37] If I connect the TV on the other side of this room, I lose access every hour oir so. [02:37] In fact, let me test the speed real quick. [02:39] download is about 7 mb and upload is about 1 mb. [02:39] and it's the evening when most people will be on. (cable is a shared medium) [02:39] DOCSIS 2 or 3? [02:39] * Red_HamsterX flaunts relevant knowledge. [02:39] no idea what that means. :) [02:40] last time I worked at an isp it was dial-up and just starting to roll out wireless. :-) [02:40] It's an IP-over-Coax standard. [02:40] I see that.. (reading the wikipedia article). [02:41] is there a way to find out easily? [02:41] I don't own the modem, so can't do much there, I'm afraid. [02:41] Dunno. [02:41] It doesn't really matter. [02:41] bummer. [02:41] The company is Mediacom. [02:41] I was just bringing it up because you mentioned that cable is shared. [02:41] I'm a prideful geek. =P [02:41] aha. :) [02:41] http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/firepower-prompt.jpg [02:42] We should so do that! [02:42] lol [02:42] sure! as soon as it's the default prompt in ubuntu. ;-) [02:43] I seem to fodly remember creating custom prompts forever ago. [02:43] fondly* [02:43] I'm glad those days are gone. [02:43] I used to do it on DOS a lot. Haven't done it on linux, really. [02:43] I just force the color prompt. [02:43] I had a three-line monstrosity that stopped just short of telling me the weather. [02:44] Probably to compensate for the fact that I was using Fluxbox at the time. [02:44] And therefore had no useful information anywhere else. [02:44] Red_HamsterX: you should set the prompt to 'quickshot@quickshot-computer' or whatever example form is used in the manual. [02:44] I'll need to ask ubuntujenkins what he's using on the LiveCD. [02:45] Though that does seem better than 'quickshot@quickshot'. [02:46] Since it actually says "This one's a hostname!" [02:47] exactly. [02:57] brb [03:20] Have this manual team considered making any other manuals, or will you be busy even just updating the ubuntu manual when it's out? [03:20] Your work is extra ordinary. [04:18] lack of Internet seriously sucks. [04:23] lol === \vish is now known as vish [04:28] Have this manual team considered making any other manuals, or will you be busy even just updating the ubuntu manual when it's out? Your work is extra ordinary. [04:35] donri: We will look at writing other manuals after Lucid. [04:44] Maybe topic-oriented manuals centered around Ubuntu. "Photo editing in Ubuntu" (gimp) "Programming in Ubuntu" (Python, PyGTK) ... [04:45] But probably prioritize topics lacking quality documentation. [04:45] (Free content documentation.) [04:52] Alternatively, "Getting started with GIMP 2.6"; but it seems easier to focus on Ubuntu (not spending a chapter about installation on various systems). [04:52] (Familiar screenshots.) [06:13] Hey, IlyaHaykinson. How goes it? [06:13] My Internet connection is total crap again today. [06:13] I'm trying to edit and commit as quickly as possible. Driving me nuts. [06:14] doing ok. [06:14] amending the proofreading script with some other things i know about that are wrong [06:14] looking at a spellchecker [06:15] awesome [06:16] IlyaHaykinson: aspell -t should work [06:16] I've been just running spell-check from within vim when I have a file open. [06:16] sure. but so would a nice little python wrapper for all of those [06:16] feel free to totally rewrite that proofreading script if you want. [06:16] I just hacked it together really quickly to check a couple things. It's horribly inefficient and limited in what it can do right now. [06:17] IlyaHaykinson: Oh, and if you come across all-caps acronyms, wrap them in \acronym. Like \acronym{GUI}, \acronym{GNOME}, etc. [06:17] ah, sure. [06:17] godbyk: I don't understand what I'm supposed to do with the PDF you sent me [06:18] what pdf? [06:18] oh. [06:18] it has a lot of yellow stuff blanking out loads of things [06:18] those are the edits and remarks from meho_r. [06:18] yeah, you'll have to load it in acronread to see the annotations properly. [06:18] oh [06:18] evince/poppler don't support them well yet, apparently. [06:18] do I need to install acronread? [06:19] yep [06:19] Hi guys [06:19] acronread or acroread? [06:19] acroread [06:19] sorry [06:19] Sorry for inconvenience [06:19] I can't get that on Lucid, remember [06:19] it's not packaged for Lucid yet [06:19] typing quickly tonight for fear the internet will go down any second. :) [06:19] humphreybc, you can use wine? [06:19] meho_r: no worries. it works great for me in acroread and it's easy to follow. [06:20] ok [06:20] godbyk: perhaps you can just do the implementation then [06:20] I have some more things to go through in chapter 4 [06:20] humphreybc: if it hasn't been done already, we should probably start culling out the unfinished bits that won't make it into the final version. [06:20] plus I have to start sorting out all the announcements and whatnot [06:20] humphreybc: sure. [06:21] humphreybc: I agree with IlyaHaykinson's email, btw. We should branch after the writing freeze and let the translators work on the frozen branch while the authors, editors, etc. continue improving the main branch for the next edition. [06:21] yep [06:21] anyone know how to branch? [06:22] are you sure that's possible in launchpad? [06:22] i.e. the ability to work on a non-head branch/ [06:22] for translations etc [06:22] i figured we'd have to branch for the _new_ version, but if we can branch off the first edition that would be great. [06:23] we could create a new series [06:23] and copy what we have in the main branch across [06:23] maybe [06:23] oh, no need to copy explicitly [06:23] bzr should be able to do that. [06:24] it's more a question of how launchpad treats branches [06:24] actually, you can try it with the website first. [06:24] it's a separate project, right? [06:24] yeah [06:24] I'll let you guys work out the technical details. Just fill me in on how I'm supposed to do whatever I'm supposed to do. :-) [06:24] ok [06:25] * humphreybc is running out of steam, the writing freeze can't come soon enough =S [06:26] I'm running out of energy, too, but I wish the writing freeze were another couple weeks away. :-) [06:26] lol [06:26] Still a *ton* of editing to do! [06:27] yeah [06:27] prologue to 3 are okay, 3 is okay, 4 is a disaster but i'll fix it, 5 isn't that great but jamin's going to fix it, 6, 7, 8 and 9 I have no idea but it sounds like you guys are working on them [06:28] I just edited 9. [06:28] chapter 9 is just weird. [06:28] lol [06:28] dutchie wrote most of it :P [06:28] it's not really about learning more about ubuntu. it's about linux distributions. [06:29] yeah [06:29] it should be fleshed out some more. [06:29] that's why I changed the name to Learning More [06:29] I was expecting it to be a guide to other resources for getting more information or help. [06:29] but it wasn't that at all. [06:29] that stuff should be there [06:30] yeah, it's not. :) [06:31] i'm going to re-write the last section of that chapter now [06:31] okey doke. [06:31] don't make any mistakes! [06:31] i'll try not to :P [06:32] I'm going to incorporate meho_r's work (prologue through part of chapter 2) [06:32] okay... [06:32] what are the main changes? [06:32] (the prologue thru chapter 2 I've already gone through) [06:33] consistency [06:33] formattings [06:33] ah, well that's alright then [06:33] etc. [06:33] cool [06:42] Okay give me some more places to get help, so far I have (in this order), the in-built help, community documentation, ubuntu forums, launchpad answers, IRC help in #ubuntu [06:42] what else? [06:42] I was thinking of doing the Official Ubuntu Book, Keir Thomas' Pocket Guide [06:46] godbyk, there isn't enough difference between sections and subsections [06:47] humphreybc: It's on my list. [06:47] cool, thanks [06:47] I'm trying hard to push the formatting stuff off until after the writing freeze. [06:47] that's all good [06:48] just as long as it's on your list :D [06:53] my long, long list. :) [06:54] Should I mention the Official Ubuntu Book as a source for extra help? [06:54] or Keir Thomas' pocket guide? [06:54] they're both kinda out of date [06:58] Your call. [06:58] I'd limit our recommendations to things that are up to date and will actually be helpful. [06:58] yeah [06:59] I'm not going to include them [06:59] I'm just pushing my new stuff now, have a look [06:59] 'kay [07:00] Change "OS X" to "Mac OS X" everywhere. [07:00] k [07:01] But don't mass-replace "Mac OS X" into "Mac Mac OS X" everywhere. ;) [07:01] lol\ [07:01] heh.. right. [07:05] doing good guys :) [07:05] godbyk: have a look at that stuff I wrote and let me know what you think [07:05] * humphreybc is going to cook some dinner, be back in about 30 minutes [07:14] godbyk, should I use different colors for formatting stuff like bolds, italics, spaces etc. so you may skip them at this moment? [07:15] meho_r: Sure. If you're going to color things, try to do it semantically. So one color means it's the first time a word is being defined, another color means the word is being emphasized, etc. [07:15] That could be a lot of colors then :D [07:16] meho_r: Also, you don't need to flag the acronyms anymore. I'm going to take care of all of those at once pretty soon. [07:16] Anyone need me to look at anything Quickshot-related before I go to sleep? [07:16] godbyk, so you decided which one to use? [07:16] small caps or all caps? [07:16] heh, spellchecker is helping [07:16] meho_r: I think I'm going to use small caps. [07:16] let me commit it [07:17] godbyk, OK. Just don't forget MB, GHz, CD :-P [07:17] meho_r: Yeah, MHz and GHz will have to remain as-is. Plus, they're not really acronyms. But MB and CD will get small-capped. [07:18] I'm going to also lave the mixed-case words like OpenSUSE as-is. [07:18] OldStyle numbers look weird when followed my AllCaps MHz : [07:18] meho_r: yeah, but it's a pretty rare occurrence. [07:19] godbyk: can you pull, run the pkgs/install-pkgs.sh script and make sure the python-enchant gets installed? [07:19] and then ./spellcheck.py|less [07:19] IlyaHaykinson: sure [07:19] 'mb' I can kinda see, but why are you lower-casing 'CD'? [07:19] godbyk, do you have "conventions" list finished? [07:19] Red_HamsterX: not lower-casing, but in small-caps. [07:20] meho_r: Not finished by any means. What there is can be found in Help/godbyk/latex-handout/, though. [07:20] Like the CSS property of a similar name? [07:20] property/attribute/whatever [07:20] Eh. I'm sure you know what you're doing. [07:21] Red_HamsterX: if you pull and compile the pdf, look at chapter 9 for 'GNU', 'GNOME', and the like. [07:25] IlyaHaykinson: did you push? [07:25] er, heh. maybe that's the problem, eh? :) [07:25] one sec [07:26] texlive sure takes a while to install... [07:27] Red_HamsterX: yeah, it's a big download and install. [07:28] ! LaTeX Error: File `xkeyval.sty' not found. [07:28] Red_HamsterX: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [07:28] Did I forget to installa package? [07:28] Red_HamsterX: in the pkgs/ dir, run the install-pkgs.sh script [07:29] Ah. I probably should have searched before assuming I knew what I was doing. [07:31] ok, pushed.. it's not great (lots of false positives), but helps find some errors if you're patient [07:36] IlyaHaykinson: spell-checker works pretty handily! [07:40] nod. script can use quite a bit of fixing up at some point, to a) make it use a word list, instead of having all that exception stuff in code, b) use a better tokenizer so that we're not splitting de-selected as de and selected [07:40] and need a ton of add'l exceptions [07:41] but, well, it's a start [07:41] yeah. [07:41] most of those exceptions will get added to the word list in our style guide to show the proper spelling, too. [07:42] nod [07:43] time to rock the glossary [07:43] nisshh: I keep adding more TODOs for the glossary. :) [07:43] ok, ill have a look [07:44] godbyk: have you fixed the issue with smallcaps and the \gls command? [07:44] IlyaHaykinson: I thought it used to be UNIX. Is it Unix now? [07:44] nisshh: I'm not sure. Point me at an example of it and I'll take a look. [07:45] there is no example in the tex right now, it caused a make error so i had to remove it [07:46] godbyk: but if say i change this: \small-caps{GNOME} [07:46] nisshh: Where was that place? I'll try it here. [07:46] godbyk: UNIX only when talking about -the- UNIX [07:46] to this: small-caps{\gls{GNOME}} [07:46] then theres a make error [07:46] otherwise, "Unix" is common to mean "UNIX-like" [07:47] godbyk: it was in the prologue i think [07:47] nisshh: Okay, let me take a look at it. [07:47] IlyaHaykinson: Fair enough. [07:48] godbyk: ok, ill link other entries in the mean time [07:48] nisshh: Try this: For the glossary entries that are acronyms, wrap the contents of the name argument in \acronym. [07:48] For instance: \newglossaryentry{GNOME}{name={\acronym{GNOME}}, description={Blah blah blah.}} [07:48] See if that works. [07:48] godbyk: ok [07:49] Then you don't need to use \smallcaps{\gls{GNOME}} and it's more correct anyway. [07:49] godbyk: so i can remove the \smallcaps{} command and just have \gls{GNOME}? [07:50] nisshh: Yep. [07:50] Use \acronym instead of \smallcaps in the \newglossaryentry, too. [07:50] (New command. :)) [07:51] * humphreybc is back [07:52] godbyk: i never used \smallcaps in \newglossaryentry [07:52] godbyk: someone put it in the chapter tex [07:53] nisshh: I know. I just wanted to point out that you should use \acronym instead of \smallcaps now. \smallcaps was the original command. I just created the \acronym command today. [07:54] ah, right i just saw that they had all been converted [07:54] compiling it now [07:58] what happens when you choose "Guided partitioning" [07:58] ? [07:59] humphreybc: doesnt it say? [07:59] in the installer [07:59] no idea [08:00] i have a vague memory of there being an option called "Guided - Use Entire Disk [08:00] : [08:00] and "Guided - Choose between them at boot [08:01] nvm [08:01] Migration assistant? [08:01] Unless someone can tell me about it, it's going to be cut [08:02] too late, it's gone [08:02] noooooooo! [08:02] :) [08:03] godbyk: \acronym works great! [08:03] nisshh: awesome! [08:03] that'll simplify it then. [08:04] yea [08:05] lol im trying to convert 3.8k songs from mp3 to ogg, compile the manual, browse the net, install a game and edit tex, all on a 7 year old p4 [08:05] we've been burning through the revisions recently [08:05] and its not slow [08:05] it was up to like 550 only a few days ago, and now i'm just pushing 662! [08:06] mp3 to vorbis results in worse quality than either mp3 or original vorbis. [08:06] humphreybc: good feeling isnt it! [08:06] donri: not noticable by ear, just on paper it is [08:06] I have OCD. [08:07] why are you converting them to ogg? [08:07] donri: should save me around 5gigs+ of disk space [08:07] Of course, I also have OCD about using mp3. :( [08:08] more once i get another 80gigs of music off a friend [08:09] estimated 2 1/2 days remaining to convert all of them lol [08:09] its right now i wish i had a 6 core cpu [08:11] hey godbyk, how's that nomenclature going? [08:11] Seirously? [08:11] yeah :) [08:11] I just got done typing a short list for it. [08:11] :) [08:11] cool, it's V important [08:11] I'm going to finish meho_r's edits and then I'll get back to it. [08:11] good man [08:11] It is important, but I can't really do it until I'm done fiddling with the formatting. [08:11] Right now I think there's way too much bold. [08:12] Yeah [08:12] Also, everything is so inconsistent. Half the time people didn't use the actual commands. [08:12] So I'm trying to fix that, too. [08:12] godbyk: wow, really? [08:12] Apparently people like to just bold and italicize things randomly. :) [08:12] meh [08:12] yup [08:13] I mean, they usually have some reason for doing it, but it's not necessarily consistent with anyone else's actions. [08:13] That's why I asked about convention part. It should have been done first IMHO [08:13] meho_r: Some of it was. [08:13] it'll be better for next release, don't worry [08:13] :) [08:13] it's not the end of the world :) [08:13] But people ran into cases where they needed a new semantic command and didn't bother to have me create one. They just used the bold/italic/whatever command directly. [08:14] uh, yuck [08:14] Too many edits? [08:14] Too many people? [08:14] I'm thinking there will have to be a second edition -- just for me. :) [08:14] :) [08:14] meho_r: That, and there was no guide up-front about a lot of the situations. [08:15] And no one brought up the questions. They just did whatever came to mind first and didn't check with what others were doing. [08:15] godbyk: USB needs the \acronym command? [08:15] That's going to be one of the first things I work on when we get this first edition pushed out: a style guide. [08:15] humphreybc: yep [08:15] brb [08:15] cool [08:15] godbyk, I'll send you next couple of pages in a min. [08:16] one thing we should do is point all new budding authors to that style guide once godbyk fixes it up [08:16] yeah [08:16] well the plan in the future is to have some sort of latex GUI app with buttons that people can hit to enter commands [08:17] kinda like word when you highlight some text and then hit italics [08:17] it'll be a WYSIWYG editor [08:17] so they wouldn't see the command, but they'd see it become italics [08:17] back [08:18] meho_r: thanks. I'm just starting on your installation chapter edits. [08:18] * godbyk thinks humphreybc is dreaming big [08:18] humphreybc: wow, that will take a while to develop [08:18] :) [08:18] * nisshh agrees with godbyk [08:19] i'm sure we can do it [08:22] I think I would prefer to use inline icons instead of some of the textual descriptions (for, say, the session menu, etc.). But that may have to wait until a second edition. [08:23] Can you tell me how large the source is? (I have monthly bandwidth limit and considering to get involved directly in future) [08:23] gah.. humphreybc, could you possible have used the word "CD" more times in the installation chapter? ;-) [08:23] * godbyk is adding \acronym [08:24] lol [08:24] hehe [08:24] "CD means a CD disk." [08:24] hehe [08:24] I think it's actually "disc" [08:24] "Built with NT technology." [08:24] so there's like HDD = Hard disk drive [08:24]