[00:00] <DarkwingDuck> I'm about to order a couple of Kubuntu ones
[00:00] <DarkwingDuck> the Kubuntu stress ball if VERY nice
[00:00] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: you could like blog about how you need a new mug and how you are going to akamdey and then I am sure one gets mugs at akademy ;)
[00:00] <nixternal> oi oi
[00:00] <apachelogger> yo nixternal
[00:00] <Tm_T> mugs or hugs
[00:00] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: roger :D
[00:00] <apachelogger> nixternal: ping
[00:00] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ping even :)
[00:00] <nixternal> hey, I gotta roll, so if there is an item i need to be a part of, can we do it now?
[00:01] <Riddell> good evening friends
[00:01] <rgreening> 'elo
[00:01] <Nightrose> meep
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> yo
[00:01] <Riddell> agenda at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[00:01] <apachelogger> cool, quorum
[00:01] <apachelogger> I think we should start with membership
[00:01] <Riddell> membership is the traditional place to start
[00:01]  * rgreening luvs word that start with Q
[00:01] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck, shtylman: who wants to go first?
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: like Dan Quayle?
[00:02] <nixternal> I am +100000 for both DarkwingDuck and shtylman
[00:02]  * rgreening needs to get Kubuntu-dev!
[00:02] <paultag_> nixternal: +1
[00:02] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: doesn't matter
[00:02] <Nightrose> DarkwingDuck: you start! :D
[00:02] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: care to introduce yourself?
[00:02] <apachelogger> for reference: https://edge.launchpad.net/~darkwingduck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DarkwingDuck
[00:03] <DarkwingDuck> I am David Wonderly. I've been working on Kubuntu-Docs and with the netbook guys for about 7 months now. Was just added for commit access in the docs
[00:03] <nixternal> also, fyi, I just uploaded KOffice 2.1.2 and l10n for it, about a day or 2 early <- apachelogger your KOfficeUserReview thing, it is simple, no, you can't replace oo.o with koffice just yet, and upstream advises against it still
[00:03] <DarkwingDuck> I'm married with 3 kids and currently just moved to Mississippi from San Diego. I'm active duty in the US Navy and they are quite supportive of my work here
[00:03] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: KOfficeUserReview is a spec for next cycle, iirc
[00:03] <apachelogger> nixternal: you did not read the page :P
[00:03] <DarkwingDuck>  https://edge.launchpad.net/~darkwingduck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DarkwingDuck
[00:04] <nixternal> apachelogger: don't have time to read it, so I just looked at the description
[00:04] <JontheEchidna> back on topic!
[00:04] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[00:04] <Nightrose> DarkwingDuck: can you tell a bit more about your netbook work?
[00:04] <DarkwingDuck> Testing and bug running with ScottK along with writing the Docs for it
[00:04] <Nightrose> sounds great
[00:05] <DarkwingDuck> I've tested it on a netbook as well as my ThinkPad X41 tablet
[00:05]  * ScottK definitely gives DarkwingDuck a +1
[00:05] <JontheEchidna> DarkwingDuck: Can I hold you responsible for wasting a few weekends watching Darkwing Duck episodes?
[00:05] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: does tabletting work?
[00:05] <JontheEchidna> *for me wasting
[00:06] <DarkwingDuck> JontheEchidna: Weekends? n00b :P
[00:06] <Riddell> DarkwingDuck: what is the IRC Focus Group ?
[00:06] <paultag_> o/
[00:06] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: Yes actually it works wonders
[00:06] <apachelogger> sweet
[00:06] <nixternal> KC, I have to go, I am highly in favor of both DarkwingDuck and shtylman for Kubuntu membership, and for the logo, I am hoping the KC does me proud and picks the current logo with the blue circle thing
[00:06] <Nightrose> ok considering doc work is always needed, netbook efforts are needed, ScottK gives you a +1 and the nick pretty much demands it: +1
[00:06] <nixternal> back in a while
[00:06] <paultag_> Riddell: I am the lead for that particular team -- if DarkwingDuck will allow me :)
[00:06] <DarkwingDuck> Riddell: the IRC FG in the BeginnersTeam moderates the BT channels
[00:06] <Riddell> thanks nixternal
[00:06] <DarkwingDuck> paultag_: go ahead
[00:07] <paultag_> I know my opinion is not very wheighty in the Kubuntu community, but I endorse DarkwingDuck 1000%. I have worked with him on the Beginners Team,  and he does top notch work. There is not a day where I have doubted the quality of his work, nor his judgement on any of my teams
[00:07] <DarkwingDuck> Nightrose: Let's Get Dangerous ;)
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> :D
[00:07] <Nightrose> haha
[00:08] <DarkwingDuck> Any other questions?
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> I'm good
[00:08] <rgreening> +1 from me. Anyone who can doc and put up with nix a
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> +1
[00:08] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: quick answer: python or gator?
[00:08] <rgreening> t the same time deserves it :P
[00:08] <izdubar> DarkwingDuck, is a great addition to any group. He has a focus on solution-oriented problem solving. He also likes doing things with minimal drama.
[00:08] <lex79> +1
[00:08] <neversfelde> +1
[00:08] <Riddell> +1 from me too, nice amount of support there
[00:08] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: PERL :P
[00:08] <apachelogger> works for me
[00:08] <Riddell> welcome to membership DarkwingDuck
[00:08] <Tm_T> +1 definately, docs++
[00:08] <Riddell> shtylman: about?
[00:08] <apachelogger> ruby would be the correct answer
[00:08] <apachelogger> +1
[00:09] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: congrats and welcome
[00:09] <DarkwingDuck> Thank you Riddle and everyone else for all the support over past 7 months
[00:09] <shtylman> Riddell: ?
[00:09] <DarkwingDuck> Thanks :)
[00:09] <paultag_> 'grats!!!
[00:09] <Nightrose> shtylman: your turn :)
[00:09] <Riddell> shtylman: please introduce yourself and your work in Kubuntu
[00:09] <izdubar> Right on.
[00:09] <apachelogger> shtylman: you wanted to become member? :P
[00:09] <shtylman> did I?
[00:09] <shtylman> I didn't realise I had to do public speaking
[00:10] <apachelogger> ^^
[00:10] <apachelogger> for reference: https://edge.launchpad.net/~shtylman https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RomanShtylman
[00:10] <shtylman> well.. here goes
[00:10] <shtylman> my name is Roman Shtylman and I am a Kubuntu user
[00:10] <shtylman> :)
[00:10] <shtylman> I am a software developer
[00:10]  * rgreening though he was a member! haha
[00:10] <shtylman> and that is what I do for kubuntu
[00:11] <ryanakca> rgreening: Same :)
[00:11] <ScottK> Oh dear, shtylman is got to be a +1.
[00:11] <shtylman> my day job is software development and my night job is kubuntu :)
[00:11] <apachelogger> rgreening: always the same with you, you are not paying attention :P
[00:11] <rgreening> shtylman == ubiquity GOD!
[00:11] <apachelogger> shtylman: when do you sleep?
[00:11] <shtylman> so yea... I work on ubiquity and little things here and there
[00:11] <shtylman> apachelogger: sleep... hmm
[00:11] <lex79> apachelogger: lol
[00:11] <apachelogger> ah
[00:11] <apachelogger> +1
[00:11] <shtylman> what is this sleep you speak of
[00:11] <JontheEchidna> +100000 for ubiquity love
[00:11] <Riddell> little things like OpenOffice
[00:11] <apachelogger> <3 shtylman
[00:11] <shtylman> yea
[00:12] <Tm_T> +1 for not sleeping
[00:12] <apachelogger> :D
[00:12] <yuriy_work> +5 for shtylman :)
[00:12] <lex79> +100
[00:12] <JontheEchidna> plus another +100 for OOo
[00:12] <shtylman> I will deff continue my kubuntu support
[00:12] <neversfelde> +q
[00:12] <shtylman> it is even my work computer :)
[00:12] <neversfelde> äh 1
[00:12] <rgreening> =i++ from me
[00:12] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ^
[00:13] <Nightrose> shtylman: can you tell a bit about your future plans for kubuntu?
[00:13] <shtylman> basically... I love development... and love making new things so thats what I try to do
[00:13] <shtylman> Nightrose: global domination?
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> muwaha
[00:13] <ryanakca> I don't have any say in the matter, but shtylman has always been quick with fixing any ubiquity bug I pointed out, so +1 from me :)
[00:13] <Nightrose> haha ok
[00:13] <shtylman> Nightrose: but really... plans for installer are the same as always
[00:13] <JontheEchidna> Without shtylman I think that the installer wouldn't have seen any development at all for the past 2 releases, seriously
[00:13] <Nightrose> ok looking at all the cheering you got and the fact that you took on OOo i have to give you a +1
[00:13] <shtylman> to keep in step with gtk ubiquity changes
[00:13] <rgreening> as long as he keeps OOO and ubiquity happy Im happy :P
[00:13] <shtylman> as well as keep tabs on the artwork issues as they happen
[00:14] <shtylman> I also talked about a live assistant... which I will reserect at some point again
[00:14] <shtylman> but that was a broader long term plan
[00:14] <apachelogger> I think Riddell didn't vote yet
[00:14] <Riddell> +1 from me too, I'm glad I finally managed to persude him to go for membership
[00:14] <Nightrose> hehe
[00:14] <apachelogger> shtylman: congrats and welcome
[00:14] <Riddell> welcome in shtylman
[00:15] <shtylman> basically... I like to think I will continue development and branch out for all the little kde related things we need when they come up :)
[00:15] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[00:15] <Nightrose> welcome DarkwingDuck and shtylman
[00:15] <shtylman> yay :) :)
[00:15] <shtylman> DarkwingDuck: congrats
[00:15] <DarkwingDuck> Thank you
[00:15] <DarkwingDuck> shtylman: congrats
[00:15] <neversfelde> congratulations DarkwingDuck and shtylman
[00:15] <DarkwingDuck> ;)
[00:15] <ryanakca> Congrats shtylman, DarkwingDuck
[00:16] <Riddell> next on the agenda is a discussion on the new logo
[00:16] <Riddell> artwork is a contentious issue so we may well not come to a clear resolution here but we can but try
[00:16] <neversfelde> which license will the new logo get, same as the old one?
[00:16] <Riddell> we're still waiting on the font rendering from the design team so only a standin k for now
[00:17] <Riddell> neversfelde: yes, creative commons copyright, trademark restrictions apply
[00:17] <JontheEchidna> anybody have a link to the suggestions handy?
[00:17] <Riddell> http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-logos.png
[00:17] <Riddell> that's what we came up with from discussions
[00:17] <yuriy_work> Riddell: to clarify the agenda -- the text part will use the ubuntu font, monochrome and we are waiting on a K.  we're deciding the icon and its placement?
[00:17] <neversfelde> so afaik, it is not allowed to change it and only add new things?
[00:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: does the k color change?
[00:17] <ryanakca> Riddell: Will #9 have the circle cut at the top or is that a cropping error?
[00:17] <Riddell> yuriy_work: right
[00:18] <shtylman> I don't like any of the ones with the leading logo
[00:18] <rgreening> I love the last one (#10) on the bottom. It's clean and clear
[00:18] <Riddell> apachelogger: k will match the rest of the characters in colour and style
[00:18] <apachelogger> k
[00:18] <shtylman> it feels unbalanced
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> I personally like the 1 and 2, no preference between those two though
[00:18] <apachelogger> +1 on what shtylman said
[00:18] <Riddell> my preference is also for 1 and 2
[00:18] <ryanakca> rgreening: I wish the gears were more distinct when they cut into the circle in #10
[00:18] <Riddell> which is what the Canonical design team gave us
[00:18] <apachelogger> for what it is worth: I find all of them worse than the current logo
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> the single cog may cause brand confusion w/ KDE, imo
[00:19] <Nightrose> yea 1,2 or one of the last two
[00:19] <rgreening> I think Ubuntu switched back to one more like #10
[00:19] <Tm_T> 2
[00:19] <shtylman> so... I have some comments :)
[00:19] <DarkwingDuck> I like 1, 2 and 10
[00:19] <shtylman> I do not like 3 or 4
[00:19] <ScottK> I like #8, but I vote for what shtylman likes.
[00:19] <yuriy_work> ok, here's my take, if we change the logo, it needs to meet the following relatively objective criteria: 1) Keep the Circle of Friends  2) Keep a gear to represent KDE  3) Work in small sizes  4)  work in monochrome
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> If the spacing was fixed, I'd like 10 too
[00:19] <lex79> #2 or #10 for me
[00:19] <shtylman> cause the gear looks like a spoke
[00:19] <Riddell> the problem there is the circle-of-gear-friends is smaller so at some scales it'll be hard to make out the gears
[00:19] <Nightrose> yuriy_work: yes sounds good
[00:19] <shtylman> but I can be persuaded on #3 if others like it
[00:20] <Riddell> that's why we have 1 for large scale and 2 for small scale
[00:20] <yuriy_work> I don't think ANY of the suggestions linked by Riddell follow those criteria.
[00:20] <shtylman> I also don't like the ones without a circle... like #4 or #6
[00:20] <shtylman> I think the containing circle is nice
[00:20] <ryanakca> I find the gears in #5 are nicer (smoother) that #3
[00:20] <neversfelde> so if it is not allowed to change the whole logo, it will be difficult to adopt it, if we choose a logo with the circle button at the end. As far as I remeber we had a lot of problems, while adding -de.org.
[00:20] <neversfelde> locos will get problems
[00:20] <shtylman> ryanakca: yea
[00:21] <yuriy_work> some of these do: http://fatbuttlarry.blogspot.com/2009/08/kubuntu-logo-mock-ups.html   in particular I like the first one "gear hands"
[00:21] <shtylman> #3 and #4 have bad gears
[00:21] <JontheEchidna> #8 is the best alternate gear, imo
[00:21] <yuriy_work> it keeps the CoF idea very well, has a gear, and doesn't have any small parts
[00:21] <Riddell> yuriy_work: you think #1 and #2 don't work at small sizes?  or some other worry?
[00:21] <shtylman> im a fan on #8 ... but I am based about that one :)
[00:21] <yuriy_work> Riddell: no better than the current logo, since it IS the current logo
[00:22] <ryanakca> Hmmm... Is there an organized voting system on this or is this just the "let's all say which ones we like in a haphazard moment" time?
[00:22] <JontheEchidna> heh
[00:22] <DarkwingDuck> What was the purpose of changing the logo?
[00:22] <shtylman> DarkwingDuck: doesn't work at small sizes
[00:22] <shtylman> thats one reason
[00:22] <Nightrose> ryanakca: seeing where we're standing and then fighting it out ;-)
[00:22]  * apachelogger doesnt like the gears TBH :P
[00:22] <JontheEchidna> also to keep up with the new Ubuntu branding, since we're a Kubuntu brand
[00:22] <Riddell> ryanakca: mostly getting opinions now
[00:22] <DarkwingDuck> So, any of the gear hands will not work...
[00:22] <JontheEchidna> *since we're an Ubuntu brand
[00:22] <DarkwingDuck> 1,2,9,10 wont work then... :/
[00:23] <lex79> can we use the logo also for Kickoff?
[00:23] <rgreening> Riddell: do you have anything better than the crappy png?
[00:23] <apachelogger> lex79: that is why we should keep scability in mind
[00:23] <rgreening> cause its rendered horribly
[00:23] <rgreening> :)
[00:23] <lex79> apachelogger: k
[00:23] <Riddell> rgreening: http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-logos.svg ?
[00:23] <Nightrose> yuriy_work: honestly they don't look very kubuntu to me :( except maybe 6
[00:23] <rgreening> and I think we are basing a lot of the opinions on the rendering
[00:23] <maco> agreed on #8
[00:24] <crimsun> I'd just like to add that if you're going to go with gears, the actual cogs need to be fairly distinct, else you may as well not use gears
[00:24] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: have you zoomed in? that could be your scaling issues
[00:24] <DarkwingDuck> 6 or 8
[00:24] <shtylman> crimsun: indeed
[00:24] <crimsun> there isn't any point in saying "look, cogs" when one has to squint
[00:24] <genii> Meh. I'm not crazy about any of those
[00:25] <neversfelde> is staying with the old logo an option?
[00:25] <Tm_T> gear teeth make things complicated
[00:25] <shtylman> neversfelde: thats #1
[00:25] <yuriy_work> neversfelde: that's pretty much option 10 the way i see it. assuming the cutouts are fixed
[00:25] <apachelogger> ^^
[00:25] <Riddell> neversfelde: we could but I think we'd look very old fashioned and get a lot of "nobody loves kubuntu" comments
[00:25] <shtylman> Riddell: can we start pruning those which we deff don't want?
[00:26] <JontheEchidna> we've been using the current logo since gutsy, iirc
[00:26] <ryanakca> My vote on the gears is #5.
[00:26] <apachelogger> on that note I would like to mention that I got loads of comments on my kubuntu is no stepchildren blog post that suggested kubuntu to change name alltogehter
[00:26]  * rgreening agrees with yuriy_work
[00:26] <Tm_T> apachelogger: nooo, Kubuntu is good name
[00:27] <ryanakca> I find that it is the smoothest one
[00:27] <shtylman> I agree.. I like kubuntu
[00:27] <neversfelde> Riddell: so I would like to mention again, that we should think about kubuntu locos, if we choose an option with the circle button at the end, they cannot change it for their needs
[00:27]  * claydoh votes for either 5 or 7
[00:27] <shtylman> #7 has something to it
[00:27] <Tm_T> neversfelde: same is with Ubuntu ?
[00:27] <yuriy_work> placement wise i think go with whatever Ubuntu is doing
[00:27] <shtylman> one of those... "cool" factors imho
[00:28] <neversfelde> Tm_T: I think so
[00:28] <apachelogger> Tm_T: it is more about having kubuntu derived from ubuntu
[00:28] <shtylman> yuriy_work: yes
[00:28] <apachelogger> thus naturally tying us to the brand in general
[00:28] <ryanakca> #7, you can't see the space between the gears in the middle when you zoom out
[00:28] <apachelogger> which ultimately is why we are here discussing a new logo anyway
[00:28] <Tm_T> apachelogger: and I like to keep that fact too, I find us being part of Ubuntu family
[00:28] <DarkwingDuck> brb, kids
[00:28] <apachelogger> *nod* just wanted to mention it :)
[00:28] <Tm_T> aye
[00:29] <Tm_T> DarkwingDuck: say hi from us
[00:29] <yuriy_work> but for the actual logo -- I think all the new suggestions (3-8) quite frankly suck.  I like the ones with the old logo, except that the old logo doesn't work at small sizes (which IMO isn't that big of an issue but we may want to take the opportunity to fix it)
[00:29] <shtylman> my vote current stands at #7 or #8
[00:29] <shtylman> I am against the last two
[00:30] <Tm_T> 2 with new gears
[00:31] <Nightrose> hmm my browser resizes the logo quite a bit and i find 1 acceptable at small sizes
[00:31] <neversfelde> the old one or a license change :)
[00:31] <Tm_T> Nightrose: that's same as 2 but just smaller, right?
[00:31] <Nightrose> yes
[00:32]  * ScottK is distracted with making dinner, but continues to agree with shtylman.
[00:32] <shtylman> Riddell: are there thoughts from the artwork team?
[00:32] <Riddell> ScottK: agree on which point?
[00:32] <Tm_T> I would like to get the circle + gears theme less noisy
[00:32] <Riddell> shtylman: which artwork team?
[00:32] <shtylman> does kwii have any suggestions?
[00:32] <Tm_T> Riddell: on everything it seems
[00:32] <rgreening> Actualy 2 and 8 are nice, though I think I'd rather the icon/gear before the Kubuntu
[00:32] <Nightrose> the problem with 7 imho is that it is too far from the CoF
[00:32] <shtylman> Riddell: artwork team being the people that made the ubuntu logo?
[00:32] <Riddell> shtylman: they want #1 and #2
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> I think I like #1/2 the best, but I also could be persuaded for #8, personally
[00:33] <Nightrose> jep
[00:33] <shtylman> Riddell: any reason?
[00:33]  * shtylman might feel compelled to persuaded JontheEchidna about #8 :)
[00:33] <Riddell> shtylman: because it matches the ubuntu logo I expect
[00:33] <shtylman> I see
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[00:34] <JontheEchidna> I'd be happy if the majority went to either 1/2 or to 8, basically
[00:34] <Nightrose> can we have a vote between 2 and 8?
[00:34] <ryanakca> Zoomed out to 25%, I find 1's gears unviewable, 2,9,10, the gears look like circles. #7 just looks like some kind of celtic knot. #5 and #8 are still clear though. Of course, that's by zooming out on the PNG in gwenview and not the SVG
[00:34] <shtylman> I think the logo is too big in #2
[00:34] <rgreening> I wish we had some better mockups in monochrome and folly colorized to base our decision on
[00:35] <rgreening> s/folly/fully/
[00:35] <Riddell> Nightrose: we can yes
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> ah, would the bootsplash image be monochrome? The background is already blue
[00:35] <Nightrose> ryanakca: is the unviewable gears a problem though?
[00:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I would make it less blue really
[00:35] <apachelogger> too much in your face right now IMHO
[00:35] <JontheEchidna> even if the gears are unviewable, it'll still look like a blue Ubuntu circle
[00:35] <shtylman> so I think a good question to ask is ... how small do we want to limit this too
[00:36] <shtylman> obviously we arn't gonna make it work for 8x8
[00:36] <rgreening> cause I assume black/grey lettering is not what we would use for the logo with a blue circle/gear and this makes my eyes bleed a little
[00:36] <shtylman> are we talking 22x22, 32x32?
[00:36] <shtylman> whats the cutoff point here
[00:36] <ryanakca> Nightrose: Well, if I'm printing promotional material, I don't want any fuzzy spots on the logo
[00:36] <neversfelde> do you think there is a way to get new logos for locos from the artwork team or to get canonical to accept a change of the new logo?
[00:36] <ScottK> Riddell: All of them.
[00:36] <ryanakca> Zooming the logo list to 25%, that gives me the size of logo I can imagine using on kubuntu.org
[00:37] <ryanakca> ... that's ~215px wide by however many tall.
[00:37] <Riddell> neversfelde: they won't be doing logos for every loco team, but they're happy to see people make variations
[00:37] <shtylman> I still think its between #7 and #8 ... from the options I see
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> Hmm, I think I do like #8 better. It's clear, KDE, pseudo-circle-of-gears, plus we could use it as a start button
[00:37] <shtylman> even at small sizes
[00:38] <ryanakca> Between #7 and #8, #8 is much clearer here
[00:38] <neversfelde> Riddell: ok
[00:38] <Nightrose> ok let's vote and see
[00:38] <Nightrose> who's for 2?
[00:38] <shtylman> before we vote
[00:38] <rgreening> -1 #7 +1 #8
[00:38] <shtylman> I think we need to trim away the ones we DONT want
[00:38] <genii> #8 is clearest here at all sizes
[00:38] <Nightrose> shtylman: it's trimmed down to 2 7 and 8
[00:39] <yuriy_work> i really don't think 3-8 are an option, and i'm surprised they were proposed by the artwork team, because they don't keep the CoF
[00:39] <shtylman> CoF ?
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> Cog of Friends
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> *circle
[00:39] <yuriy_work> heh
[00:39] <shtylman> oh
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> :P
[00:39] <shtylman> do they have to?
[00:39] <shtylman> xubuntu doesn't?
[00:39] <Riddell> yuriy_work: they're not proposed by canonical's design team, they're proposed by us
[00:39] <shtylman> #8 tries to a bit
[00:39] <JontheEchidna> Xubuntu has the circle + a mouse through it, iirc
[00:39] <yuriy_work> Riddell: oh
[00:40]  * shtylman is against #2 because the logo is too big
[00:40] <rgreening> I agree, 8 does match the CoF
[00:40] <yuriy_work> shtylman: they don't *have* to, I just think they should
[00:40] <shtylman> #7 could be a bit bigger
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, I think #8 is CoF-y enough
[00:40] <shtylman> yuriy_work: gotcha
[00:40]  * rgreening ammends my vote to only #8 :)
[00:40] <Nightrose> ok let's try this again - please say 2, 7 or 8 now :D
[00:40] <ryanakca> #8 is the best, between #2,7,8
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> #8
[00:40] <rgreening> 8
[00:40] <shtylman> Riddell: can we can a review with #7 having a bigger logo?
[00:41] <yuriy_work> 2
[00:41] <lex79> 2
[00:41] <shtylman> closer in size to #8
[00:41] <yuriy_work> is that where Ubuntu is placing it?
[00:41] <Nightrose> undecided 2 and 8
[00:41] <shtylman> iirc for #8 I used the ubuntu size... but I could be wrong
[00:41] <Riddell> 1/2 for me
[00:41] <Tm_T> same
[00:42] <Tm_T> just needs bit tidying
[00:42] <Riddell> shtylman: #1 matches the ubuntu size as does #7
[00:42] <neversfelde> yes, 1 or 2
[00:42] <ryanakca> Nightrose: I guess #7 got voted out
[00:42] <Nightrose> Riddell: can we give 2 and 8 to the design team for refining?
[00:42] <shtylman> Riddell: gotcha
[00:42] <Nightrose> Riddell: jep
[00:42] <Tm_T> Nightrose: good idea
[00:42] <Riddell> Nightrose: we can although that doesn't help in chosing between them :)
[00:42] <Tm_T> Nightrose: or even if they can merge them
[00:42] <yuriy_work> i think the smaller size in 1 looks a little more professional than 2
[00:42] <Nightrose> Riddell: :D
[00:42] <JontheEchidna> well, I'd like 7, except it's a bit too "busy" for the size it's at
[00:43]  * rgreening agrees
[00:43] <JontheEchidna> but #8 looks like it'd go better as a start button
[00:43]  * claydoh agrees with JontheEchidna , votes 8
[00:43] <shtylman> 1, 7, or 8
[00:43] <rgreening> #8 is non-busy and that works best with glow effects like we may want in the splash
[00:44] <Nightrose> ok we're getting a majority for 8 here :D
[00:44] <Nightrose> any strong objections to 8?
[00:44] <Tm_T> not enough CoF
[00:44] <Nightrose> it still has it though
[00:44] <shtylman> I have to run... but will be home later to hear the results of this :)
[00:44] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: have fun
[00:45] <Riddell> it throws away our current circle of gear friends, which is quite a big change
[00:45] <Nightrose> true
[00:45] <Riddell> means the jumper davmor2's wife spent 6 months knitting me is no use any more
[00:45] <Tm_T> and its not CoF really
[00:45] <Nightrose> ohnoes!
[00:45]  * Nightrose is getting a bad headache and should probably go to bed soon
[00:46] <Riddell> we could go with #8 for beta 2 and see what the feedback from the world is like
[00:46] <rgreening> time for a change!!!
[00:46] <rgreening> we are about change.. no?
[00:46] <JontheEchidna> Let's get dangerous!
[00:46] <rgreening> :P
[00:46] <Nightrose> rofl JontheEchidna
[00:46] <Riddell> nixternal: are you able to do us a plymouth splash with that logo?
[00:46] <ryanakca> Well, if we go with Nightrose's suggestion of having the design team refine them, mull it over and look at it again in a bit?
[00:46] <JontheEchidna> I'm in favor of a trial for beta2
[00:47] <Riddell> it can't be final for beta 2 anyway, no good "k" yet
[00:47] <maco> i think #8 will hold up at kickoff sizes better than 1&2
[00:47] <Nightrose> uhhhh
[00:47] <Nightrose> that will get us flack though
[00:47] <claydoh> heh we should have a rotating boot splash, so each boot we see a different one :D
[00:47] <Nightrose> the bad K
[00:47] <maco> attempted to say 10min ago but network fail: i think #8 will hold up at kickoff sizes better than 1&2
[00:48] <yuriy_work> Nightrose: we should make it look really obviously crappy
[00:48] <Nightrose> hehe might work yes
[00:48] <Nightrose> comic sans :D
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> maco: current consensus is to try #8 for beta2, and gauge reaction
[00:48] <maco> ok
[00:48] <Riddell> I'm still against changing the kickoff icon in the panel, but we should change the kubuntu logo in the top right of kickoff which is rubbish now
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> Should we use a different font in the bootsplash until the K is ready?
[00:49] <yuriy_work> oh right... that's supposed to be top right of kickoff.. (my panel's on the left)
[00:49] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: better than what we have now imho
[00:49] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: up to nixternal I think if he's making it
[00:50] <Riddell> let's move on before anyone else gets a headache
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> oh, I was wondering, how do we see the results of the feedback surveys?
[00:50] <Riddell> we poke nixternal I think
[00:50]  * apachelogger pokes nixternal
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> that'd be perfect for the new logo
[00:50] <maco> ah so the different k in the proposed logos wasnt "look! we're the distro with a *K*" it was "uh...we dont have a k yet...*substitute*"
[00:51] <Riddell> maco: right
[00:51] <Nightrose> hehe yes
[00:51] <JontheEchidna> right
[00:51] <Riddell> I seem to have an agenda item for "Liberation fonts"
[00:51] <JontheEchidna> maco: the only charc in the new font so far are "ubnt "
[00:51] <maco> JontheEchidna: *still*?
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> maco: something like that, not totally sure
[00:52] <Riddell> alas I'm not entirely clear what it's about
[00:52] <Riddell> Arne told me Ubuntu was switching to Liberation
[00:52] <apachelogger> probably switching default font from dejavu to liberation
[00:52] <Riddell> and would we like to do the same
[00:52] <Riddell> but if he's switching the fontconfig default font then that'll apply everywhere
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> I'm for it. Looks pretty good
[00:52]  * Nightrose would like to send that decision to nuno
[00:53] <Riddell> since our default font is "Sans Serif"
[00:53] <JontheEchidna> doesn't nuno praise liberation?
[00:53] <apachelogger> Nightrose: nuno likes liberation
[00:53] <Nightrose> ah good then
[00:53] <apachelogger> I talked to him about the font stuff some months ago
[00:53] <Nightrose> k
[00:53] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: according to our kdeglobals file in kubuntu-default-settings we use Deja Vu sans by default
[00:53] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: hmm
[00:53] <apachelogger> I also think that there is some patch in Qt that specifically goes for dejavu
[00:54] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's probably wrong
[00:54] <apachelogger> that thing in kds is because of some bug IIRC
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> aah, ook
[00:54] <yuriy_work> since the fun logo discussion is done, I guess i'll go home *waves*
[00:54] <Riddell> apachelogger: there's a patch in kdelibs from Debian but we drop it (freeflying says it breaks CJK)
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> -o
[00:54] <apachelogger> anyhow, that is implementation details
[00:54] <apachelogger> I am all for switching to liberation
[00:54] <apachelogger> dejavu is quite the crap if you ask me
[00:54] <JontheEchidna> +1
[00:54] <Riddell> liberation it is, if nuno likes it that's good enough for me
[00:55] <Riddell> ciao yuriy_work
[00:55] <Nightrose> same here
[00:55] <Riddell> apachelogger wishes to tell us about Kubuntu/KOfficeUserReview
[00:55] <Tm_T> Liberation is fine
[00:55] <JontheEchidna> granted, I personally prefer droid, but I wouldn't push that as default
[00:55] <apachelogger> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KOfficeUserReview
[00:55] <apachelogger> some time ago we came up with the idea of poking some of our users to evaluate KOffice and see where it is standing
[00:56] <apachelogger> resulting in feedback upstream can hold on to, and so that we know how far away KO is from replacing ooo
[00:57] <Tm_T> very good idea
[00:57] <Riddell> I hear nixternal is the man for surveys
[00:57] <apachelogger> yeah, I just want everyone to think a bit about this and maybe come up with ideas on how to about this specifically
[00:58] <apachelogger> I am quite sure that we will make the survey based on KO 2.2.0, so that should be sometime in may
[00:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'd say time it with KOffice 2.2 release
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> may is a busy month
[00:58] <JontheEchidna> GSoC + UDS
[00:58] <apachelogger> well, I suppose we should keep the survey open for at least a month
[00:59] <apachelogger> to make sure we get enough input
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[00:59] <apachelogger> also, I would think that it makes sense that each kubuntu member tries to do semi usability evaluations using their friends and families
[00:59] <apachelogger> so that we not only get feedback from geeks ;)
[01:00] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[01:00] <rgreening> sounds good
[01:00] <apachelogger> otherwise the wiki page pretty much states everything we came up with so far, so just have a look at it and think a bit about it
[01:00] <ryanakca> I'm sure I could convince my dad to participate :)
[01:00] <apachelogger> I'll start a thread on the ml sometime next week or so
[01:00] <apachelogger> thanks :)
[01:01] <JontheEchidna> so.. that's it, right?
[01:01] <ryanakca> Does anybody know of businesses or organizations that use Kubuntu?
[01:01] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna wants to talk about colors ^^
[01:01] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah
[01:01] <apachelogger> ryanakca: french governement does I think
[01:01] <JontheEchidna> almost forgot my own agenda item :P
[01:01] <ryanakca> I'd like to switch out some of the groups on the front page.
[01:01] <Riddell> one thing at a time
[01:01] <Riddell> JontheEchidna's item
[01:02] <ryanakca> Yes, sorry
[01:02] <JontheEchidna> bug 551117
[01:02] <Nightrose> sorry guys - i need to go to bed - headache is getting too bad
[01:02]  * Nightrose is generally in favour of upstreaming
[01:02] <JontheEchidna> I agree. Especially on laptops with lower-quality contrast capabilities, the current scheme is whiter than my stomach after a long winter
[01:02] <apachelogger> :(
[01:02] <Nightrose> so also for color scheme
[01:02] <Riddell> thanks Nightrose
[01:02] <apachelogger> Nightrose: nighty night :*
[01:02] <Nightrose> nini
[01:02] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: got any screenshots?
[01:03] <JontheEchidna> ah, for comparison?
[01:03] <freeflying> Still in meeting?
[01:03] <freeflying> :)
[01:03] <JontheEchidna> sec
[01:03]  * apachelogger notes that even on high contrast displays he finds the current colors worse than oxygen default
[01:03] <apachelogger> colors is amonst the first things I change after a new installation
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> upstream Oxygen default: http://imagebin.ca/view/M5ubJE.html
[01:04] <lex79> apachelogger: me too, and then I change the fonts ;)
[01:04] <apachelogger> yeah
[01:05] <Riddell> let's go with upstream
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> pasty white boy: http://imagebin.ca/view/HOPo2ll.html
[01:05] <Tm_T> +1 for upstream
[01:05] <neversfelde> +1 too
[01:05] <lex79> +1
[01:06] <Riddell> although I am mystified by their removal of the blue bars on active window decorations
[01:06] <rgreening> +1 here
[01:06] <Riddell> ryanakca had a question
[01:06] <ryanakca> +1 for upstream here too
[01:06] <ryanakca> 0:01:07 < ryanakca> Does anybody know of businesses or organizations that use Kubuntu?
[01:06] <Riddell> I do know of one very large Kubuntu rollout which isn't generally known
[01:07] <Riddell> Weta Digital, of Avatar and Lord of the Rings run it on all their computers
[01:07] <Riddell> and they have a lot of computers
[01:07] <JontheEchidna> sweet
[01:07] <Riddell> about half the computers in New Zealand I'm sure
[01:07] <ryanakca> Cool
[01:07] <rgreening> cool haha
[01:07] <Riddell> but they're secreative, I doubt you'll get a quote out of them
[01:07] <JontheEchidna> Do we have to get a quote from them to mention them as users?
[01:07] <ryanakca> Riddell: Any idea how many, or shall I just say "all"?
[01:07] <ryanakca> Or someone I can email to get a quote?
[01:08] <DarkwingDuck> what did I miss?
[01:08] <Riddell> ryanakca: dustin kirkland blogged about it a while ago
[01:08] <Riddell> not sure if he had a number there or not
[01:08] <ryanakca> 35000 core Ubuntu-based server farm
[01:09] <Riddell> ryanakca: but for a real quote, try talking to toscalix who did the kubuntu rollout in the canary islands
[01:09] <ryanakca> OK, thanks
[01:10] <ryanakca> Any others?
[01:10] <Riddell> ryanakca: might be good to replace "Mike" with a real person too
[01:10]  * ryanakca assumes ScottK uses Kubuntu for his business?
[01:10] <Riddell> Georgia is the other large rollout, all their schools run Kubuntu, but I don't have any contacts there
[01:10]  * txwikinger uses Kubuntu for his business
[01:11] <ryanakca> Riddell: Aye, I used my dad in case someone called us up on false advertising. I'll switch him up with the canary islands / Georgia / etc.
[01:11] <ryanakca> txwikinger: Cool, I'll ask you about it in a bit
[01:11] <Riddell> ryanakca: well it's nice to have an individual as well as a large rollout
[01:11] <txwikinger> Riddell: canary islands... cool
[01:12]  * txwikinger used to live there for a while
[01:12] <apachelogger> canary, that was back in the days when aseigo was using kubuntu, wanst it? ^^
[01:12] <Riddell> and keep poking developers to get some in the "Developer of the moment" spot
[01:12] <ryanakca> Riddell: I have a "And users like you" blurb to replace the individuals if you don't mind
[01:12] <ScottK> ryanakca: I do.
[01:12] <ryanakca> Anybody feel like kicking rgreening out of the Developer of the moment spot?
[01:12] <ryanakca> ScottK: Feel like answering a few questions after the meeting about it?
[01:12] <rgreening> haha
[01:13] <ryanakca> He's been there more than a moment :P
[01:13] <apachelogger> oh
[01:13] <txwikinger> aseigo is not using Kubuntu anymore?
[01:13] <rgreening> I made up for it by the pound
[01:13] <apachelogger> first let me print out kubuntu.org
[01:13] <apachelogger> I want a rgreening on my wall!
[01:13] <ScottK> ryanakca: Probably better later in the week.
[01:13] <apachelogger> :)
[01:13] <ryanakca> ScottK: OK
[01:14] <ryanakca> Riddell: Anyways, I think that's all, I'll prod the appropriate people.
[01:14] <Riddell> groovy, any other business?
[01:14] <JontheEchidna> All good here.
[01:14] <ryanakca> I'll also resend the "Developer of the moment" form to the list, since everybody is eager to fill it out :P
[01:14] <apachelogger> I just want to say that I love you all!
[01:14] <DarkwingDuck> love you too apachelogger
[01:15] <Riddell> group hug!
[01:15]  * Tm_T hides
[01:15] <DarkwingDuck> Just remember... it's simpler to get forgiveness then permission.
[01:15]  * apachelogger hugs everone, even the non-kubuntu people in here ^^
[01:15] <JontheEchidna> ^_^
[01:15]  * txwikinger thinks that apachelogger has very long arms to get around 180 people
[01:16]  * ryanakca grins, wishes kubotu could send cookies to everybody in #ubuntu-meeting and contemplates his homework pile
[01:16] <ryanakca> txwikinger: ;D
[01:16]  * apachelogger notes that this would only involve like changing one line ;)
[01:16] <apachelogger> well, I think we are all done with the meeting
[01:16] <ryanakca> Aye.
[01:16] <apachelogger> Thanks everyone for attending
[01:16] <DarkwingDuck> Thanks for the votes
[01:16] <Tm_T> thanks, good night
[01:17] <Riddell> thanks for the central Europeans for staying up late
[01:20]  * genii makes more coffee and washes the mugs for the next meeting scheduled
[01:21] <claydoh> you guys rock!
[16:00] <nixternal> cody-somerville, cjwatson, persia, geser, soren, stgraber - we can haz meeting?
[16:00] <cody-somerville> we can haz it!
[16:01] <cjwatson> hi
[16:01] <nixternal> howdy
[16:01] <cjwatson> soren SMSed me earlier today to apologise for not making it; he has a conflict
[16:01] <nixternal> roger that
[16:02]  * stgraber waves
[16:03] <nixternal> howdy stgraber
[16:03] <stgraber> I'll be around for the next 30min on my laptop, then the remaining 30min on my cell. I kind of have a time conflict every week on Tuesday at 15:00 UTC ...
[16:03] <nixternal> that makes 4 of us....persia can't be sleeping, it is only midnight in Japan
[16:04] <nixternal> shall we start this meeting then?
[16:06] <cjwatson> sure
[16:06] <cody-somerville> Do we have quorum?
[16:06] <cjwatson> you're the chair, Just Do It :-)
[16:06] <cjwatson> 4 = quorum
[16:06] <nixternal> #startmeeting
[16:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is nixternal.
[16:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:06] <nixternal> and let the meeting begin!
[16:07] <nixternal> did everyone vote via email that was supposed to vote after the last meeting?
[16:07] <nixternal> I am positive I did
[16:07] <nixternal> seems cjwatson and soren were the others along with me who were to vote via email
[16:07] <cjwatson> I did about ten minutes ago
[16:08] <nixternal> hehe
[16:08] <nixternal> [ACTION] Follow up: persia contacts Angel Abad about his application
[16:08] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Follow up: persia contacts Angel Abad about his application
[16:08] <nixternal> [TOPIC]Administrative Matters
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic: Administrative Matters
[16:08] <nixternal> do we have any admin matters this week?
[16:09] <cody-somerville> I have one to quickly bring up.
[16:09] <nixternal> rock and roll cody-somerville
[16:09] <cody-somerville> I mentioned this briefly in #ubuntu-devel but membership on the DMB effectively grants Ubuntu core-dev.
[16:09] <cody-somerville> cjwatson mentioned this was a bug so we should probably fix it.
[16:10] <nixternal> so everyone who is on the DMB is now a core-dev?
[16:10] <cody-somerville> Yes.
[16:10] <cody-somerville> DMB is a member of core-dev team.
[16:10] <nixternal> well that was easy...no sweating while mdz grills ya
[16:10] <cody-somerville> lol
[16:10]  * cjwatson reminds nixternal that the DMB grants core-dev now ;-)
[16:11] <cody-somerville> The solution is to make dmb the owner of ubuntu-core-dev instead of a member.
[16:11] <cjwatson> I believe Cody's suggestion was that the DMB should be the owner of teams but not a member
[16:11] <nixternal> heh, you would think I would have known that one :)
[16:11] <cjwatson> I have a follow-up question to that though
[16:11] <cjwatson> I think there are some other cases where the DMB is an administrator, and some other more closely aligned team is the owner
[16:11]  * geser waves
[16:12] <cody-somerville> Agreed.
[16:12] <cjwatson> so while I think we can make this change for ~ubuntu-core-dev, we might have to be careful about doing it across the board
[16:12] <cjwatson> at least it would require some coordination
[16:12] <cody-somerville> If no one disagrees, I can remove dmb from ubuntu-core-dev immediately since its already an owner.
[16:12] <cody-somerville> s/an/the/
[16:12] <cjwatson> I think that's fine - if it causes a problem of some kind, I can put it back
[16:13] <nixternal> +1 - I was just looking at LP
[16:13] <stgraber> +1
[16:13] <nixternal> [ACTION]Remove DMB from Core Dev team - make it the owner and not a member
[16:13] <MootBot> ACTION received: Remove DMB from Core Dev team - make it the owner and not a member
[16:13] <nixternal> dang, that was supposed to be agreed :)
[16:13] <nixternal> [AGREED]Remove DMB from Core Dev team - make it the owner and not a member
[16:13] <MootBot> AGREED received: Remove DMB from Core Dev team - make it the owner and not a member
[16:13] <cody-somerville> Done.
[16:13] <nixternal> rock on
[16:14] <nixternal> before we get on to applications, who wants to chair the next meeting?
[16:14] <james_w> I have one thing too
[16:14] <nixternal> alrighty, go james_w
[16:15] <james_w> I would like a contact address to be set for ~ubuntu-dev and the DMB is the admin
[16:15] <james_w> covered on ubuntu-devel@ in the thread "Default reviewer for Ubuntu merge proposals?"
[16:15] <nixternal> what contact address should it use?
[16:16] <james_w> doesn't have to be covered in the meeting, but if I could get someone to volunteer, or be told to find another way to do this then that would be great
[16:16] <james_w> ubuntu-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com
[16:16] <nixternal> everyone agree with james_w idea?
[16:16] <cjwatson> oh, I thought that had already been agreed
[16:17] <cjwatson> that being the point of changing ubuntu-core-dev's contact
[16:17] <nixternal> ~ubuntu-core-dev or ~ubuntu-dev
[16:17] <james_w> (yes it's not a good address to actually contact the team, but there's no separation in LP between contacting them and sending them every detail of the action in LP related to the team)
[16:17] <nixternal> gotcha
[16:18] <cjwatson> james_w: are core-reviews and reviews aliases now, or duplicate lists?
[16:18] <james_w> aliases
[16:18] <cjwatson> ok, in that case there was no dissent on the list and the infrastructure has been prepared so I think we should JFDI
[16:18] <nixternal> [AGREED]Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com
[16:18] <MootBot> AGREED received: Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com
[16:18] <cjwatson> I'll go ahead and do that now
[16:18] <james_w> thank you
[16:18] <nixternal> OK
[16:18] <nixternal> thanks cjwatson, I was about to do it too :)
[16:19] <cjwatson> james_w: sigh
[16:19] <nixternal> glad you spoke up before I did :)
[16:19] <cjwatson> james_w: so now we run into the bug where you need to run bits of SQL to disentangle a contact address from a team
[16:19] <cjwatson> ubuntu-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com is already registered in Launchpad and is associated with Ubuntu Core Development Team.
[16:19] <stgraber> nixternal: I'd volunteer as chair for next meeting though as I mentioned after the DST change it's now at a pretty bad time for me where I can only attend half of the meeting with a decent keyboard.
[16:19] <james_w> uh
[16:19] <cjwatson> james_w: you'll need to file a question on Launchpad to ask a LOSA to disentangle that - it's a known bug
[16:19] <nixternal> [ACTION]Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com - done by cjwatson
[16:19] <MootBot> ACTION received: Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com - done by cjwatson
[16:19] <james_w> cjwatson: will do, thanks
[16:19] <cjwatson> nixternal: not done, blocked
[16:19] <nixternal> err
[16:20] <nixternal> [ACTION]Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com - not done, blocked
[16:20] <MootBot> ACTION received: Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-review@lists.ubuntu.com - not done, blocked
[16:20] <cjwatson> and that's ubuntu-reviews@, but hopefully whoever parses the agenda will notice :)
[16:21] <nixternal> [ACTION]Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com - james_w to file a question on LP to ask a LOSA to disentagle the already registered address
[16:21] <MootBot> ACTION received: Set contact address for ~ubuntu-dev to ubuntu-reviews@lists.ubuntu.com - james_w to file a question on LP to ask a LOSA to disentagle the already registered address
[16:21] <nixternal> there, added the s :)
[16:23] <james_w> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/106006 fwiw
[16:23] <cody-somerville> Shall we continue?
[16:23] <nixternal> cody-somerville: yes
[16:23] <nixternal> any volunteers for the next chair? seem stgraber can only do half a meeting
[16:24] <nixternal> if not, we shorten our meeting :)
[16:24]  * soren wanders in, slightly confused that the meeting is going on right now
[16:24] <nixternal> hehe
[16:24] <soren> I thought this was supposed to be an hour ago?
[16:24] <cjwatson> soren: there was mail
[16:24] <soren> Ah.
[16:24] <nixternal> soren: by you wondering in, does that mean you will the next chair? :D
[16:25] <nixternal> should we set the meeting time an hour back, say 14:00 UTC?
[16:25] <soren> nixternal: I'll be traveling during next meeting, I'm afarid.
[16:25] <soren> afraid, even.
[16:25] <nixternal> 14:00 UTC would mean I really have to set my alarm :)
[16:25] <nixternal> 09:00 is way to early to be waking up :)
[16:26] <stgraber> 14:00 UTC would work perfectly for me and I'd be happy to chair that one then ;)
[16:26] <cody-somerville> Maybe we should defer picking the chair to the mailing list? I might be able to chair but don't want to commit at the moment.
[16:26] <nixternal> cody-somerville: I was thinking the same thing
[16:26] <soren> I have a meeting every day at..
[16:26] <nixternal> we can do that
[16:26] <soren> Err...
[16:26] <stgraber> nixternal: hehe, just need to move a bit eastern and you'd be good ;) it'd be 10am for me ;)
[16:26]  * soren struggles with the $TZ arithmetic
[16:26] <nixternal> [ACTION]Decide next chair person via e-mail - nixternal will do that
[16:26] <MootBot> ACTION received: Decide next chair person via e-mail - nixternal will do that
[16:27] <nixternal> ok, application time it seems, unless there is any other admin stuff
[16:27] <soren> 1430 UTC, it must be.
[16:27] <cjwatson> let's please move on, we're nearly half-way through the meeting
[16:27] <nixternal> looks like we have 2 according to the agenda
[16:27] <soren> So I'd only ever be able to do the first 30 minutes of the meeting if it starts at 1400.
[16:27] <nixternal> ogasawara: you about?
[16:27]  * ogasawara waves
[16:28] <soren> Oh, sorry, I thought we were wrapping up with all the talk about meeting times.
[16:28] <geser> soren: can you email you vote for cyphermox's application? your vote is the last missing and needed for the result
[16:28] <nixternal> [TOPIC]Leann Ogasawara Per Package Upload Application
[16:28] <MootBot> New Topic: Leann Ogasawara Per Package Upload Application
[16:28] <nixternal> ogasawara: care to introduce yourself quickly?
[16:28] <ogasawara> nixternal: sure
[16:29] <ogasawara> hi guys.  Leann Ogasawara here.  Member of the Canonical kernel team.  I've most recently been involved with security updates for the kernel but looking to take on the ubuntu-m kernel maintainership.
[16:29] <ogasawara> which is why I'm hoping to get upload rights :)
[16:30] <cody-somerville> When did you make the transition to the kernel team?
[16:30] <geser> I think it's the first time I see GPG signed endorsements in an application :)
[16:30] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: right after the new year
[16:30]  * stgraber is switching to the n900 for the remaining part of the meeting
[16:31] <nixternal> geser: I was thinking the same exact thing
[16:31]  * stgraber-n900 waves
[16:31] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: well the paper work was finalized after the new year.  I'd sorta moved a bit before that.
[16:32] <cody-somerville> ogasawara, You have 5 uploads of linux type packages attributed to you, all for karmic. Why haven't you made any uploads to lucid yet?
[16:32] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: mainly because that's been apw's responsibility at the moment
[16:33] <cody-somerville> How many kernel uploads have you contributed to?
[16:34] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: I'd have to say with the CVE work it's been at least over 20 as it involves not on the linux package, but the meta's and lbm, lum, etc for all supported releases.
[16:34] <ogasawara> s/not on/not only/
[16:34] <cody-somerville> By ubuntu-m, do you mean ubuntu-mobile or something else?
[16:34] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: Lucid+1
[16:34] <cody-somerville> Ah.
[16:35] <nixternal> hrmm, I come up with a question and see it has already been answered in the app :)
[16:35] <cody-somerville> ogasawara, Who is the current maintainer?
[16:35] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: for Lucid, it's apw
[16:36] <stgraber-n900> +1
[16:36] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: I'll be working closely with him to make the transition from Lucid to Lucid+1 and I've already started on the git tree prep work
[16:36] <apw> yeah we usually have one maintainer per series kerenl while it is in development phase ... this is a limitation of our rebase based update between series
[16:37] <nixternal> ogasawara: seeing as I can't read the build logs for the PPA builds, can you explain the build failures on some of the packages you have comitted?
[16:37] <ogasawara> nixternal: the most recent is for the 2.6.34-rc2 Lucid+1 kernel
[16:37] <ogasawara> nixternal: and it's actually the linux_doc package of all things that is failing
[16:38] <ogasawara> nixternal: I'm planning to find out why after this meeting
[16:38] <nixternal> i don't see a failure for 2.6.34 but for Jaunty's linux-meta 2.6.28.18.23
[16:39] <ogasawara> hrm, jaunty meta failing? could likely be the ABI
[16:39] <ogasawara> but I'd need to see the log to know for sure
[16:39] <cody-somerville> ogasawara, It appears you're requesting upload permissions for packages you've not uploaded before. Do you have experience working with all of those packages? If so, where and what kind?
[16:39] <nixternal> looks like it occurred 2010-01-27 in the Private PPA for Ubuntu Security Team
[16:40] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: that's just the kernel package set, FWIW
[16:40] <cjwatson> I wouldn't expect people necessarily to have uploaded every single package in a set before asking for access to that set
[16:41] <cjwatson> in fact, with most sets, I'd be quite surprised if they had
[16:41] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: I unfortunately haven't uploaded every single package in that list, but I've touched on a good majority (like all the linux-*)
[16:41]  * soren hasn't exactly uploaded every package in main (much less universe) :)
[16:41] <cody-somerville> ah, wasn't aware this was a package set.
[16:41] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: and linux-firmware I haven't touched as well
[16:42] <nixternal> soren: well you need to get to it then :)
[16:42] <ogasawara> cody-somerville: and as usual it involved the CVE work
[16:42] <soren> nixternal: I'm confident it's in everybody's best interest if I keep my hands off of, say, Kubuntu :)
[16:42] <nixternal> good point
[16:43] <nixternal> probably the same goes for me though :)
[16:43] <nixternal> I think I am ready to vote, any more questions?
[16:43] <cjwatson> none from me
[16:43] <cody-somerville> I find this a difficult application because of the lack of traditional indicators.
[16:44] <stgraber-n900> none here
[16:44]  * soren has no questions and is ready to vote
[16:44] <geser> no questions
[16:44] <nixternal> [VOTE]Leann Ogasawara Per Package Upload for Linux Kernel Packages
[16:44] <MootBot> Please vote on: Leann Ogasawara Per Package Upload for Linux Kernel Packages.
[16:44] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[16:44] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[16:44] <nixternal> +1
[16:44] <MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[16:44] <geser> +1
[16:44] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[16:45] <stgraber-n900> +1
[16:45] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber-n900. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[16:45] <soren> +1
[16:45] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[16:45] <cjwatson> +1 - I've worked with ogasawara before and have no qualms
[16:45] <cody-somerville> +0 - I'm going to abstain.
[16:45] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[16:45] <MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[16:46] <nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
[16:46] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
[16:46] <soren> This silly keyboard almost made me vote -1 :)
[16:46] <maco> awesome!
[16:46] <nixternal> lol
[16:46] <nixternal> groovy, congrats ogasawara \o/
[16:46] <ogasawara> thanks guys!
[16:46] <cody-somerville> ogasawara, Congratulations! :)
[16:46] <soren> ogasawara: Thank /you/!
[16:46] <apw> yay ogasawara
[16:46] <maco> ogasawara: \o/
[16:46] <cjwatson> implemented in LP
[16:46] <nixternal> cjwatson: rock on!
[16:47] <ogasawara> sweet!
[16:47] <nixternal> hrmm
[16:47] <stgraber-n900> congrats !
[16:47] <nixternal> I just called in the core-dev app dude
[16:47] <nixternal> there he is
[16:47] <JontheEchidna> o/
[16:48] <nixternal> [TOPIC]Jonathan Thomas Core Developer Application
[16:48] <MootBot> New Topic: Jonathan Thomas Core Developer Application
[16:48] <nixternal> jon the enchilada
[16:48] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: care to quickly introduce yourself?
[16:48] <JontheEchidna> sure
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> I'm a Kubuntu contributor. I do KDE packaging most every KDE release, as well as take care of bugs and such for the KDE packages
[16:49] <JontheEchidna> Need links to my application?
[16:50] <nixternal> we got it :)
[16:50] <cjwatson> we have it on our agenda, thanks
[16:50] <cjwatson> from your application: "the powers that be are opposed to making any changes to the package set that a Kubuntu Dev can upload to" - FWIW, speaking as probably the most relevant "power that be", this is a very very misleading statement
[16:50] <nixternal> yeah, I should have probably tossed in the links via MootBot
[16:50] <cjwatson> I described the actual state of affairs in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-November/029623.html
[16:50] <nixternal> [LINK]https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JonathanThomas/CoreDevApplication
[16:50] <MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/JonathanThomas/CoreDevApplication
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> cjwatson: Ah, I was basing that off of what ScottK said
[16:50] <cjwatson> I have *never* said that I was opposed to making any changes in that package set - what I said was that it was difficult to add core things like qt to it right now
[16:51] <cjwatson> largely because of software inadequacies
[16:51] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, I feel for ya. Software inadeqaucies suck
[16:52] <cjwatson> we can go through the application anyway, but I want it clearly understood that it isn't intended for Kubuntu uploaders to be permanently unable to upload (say) kdebase-workspace
[16:52]  * rgreening looks forward to updated kubuntu-dev package set in future
[16:52] <JontheEchidna> But as it stands, the package set is limiting  my usefulness, so I think that being a core-dev would be an appropriate fix
[16:52] <cjwatson> well, let's review that on its merits then
[16:52] <Riddell> I fully support JontheEchidna's application, he's a first rate packager with a good knowledge of what needs to be done and when
[16:52] <rgreening> and we need to add additional persons who can upload when Riddell is not around
[16:53] <rgreening> :)
[16:53] <nixternal> oh lord, here come all of those whacky kubuntu folks
[16:53] <rgreening> ;)
[16:53] <JontheEchidna> I will change my app to properly reflect the current kubuntu-dev upload rights right now
[16:54] <maco> nixternal: pointy clicky windows user!
[16:54] <nixternal> as it seems I am bad at leaving endorsements on people's applications, or jon the enchilada doesn't like me, I support his app, I know his plans, and the only thing he can break is kubuntu, which is now apachelogger's fault if that occurs...he is a good packager, i know he is testing his stuff now because he doesn't want to hear me complain in #kubuntu-devel about this or that :)
[16:55] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Being a core developer is more than just being a good packager. How often do you work with developers outside of the Kubuntu community?
[16:55] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: by being core dev, you are getting access to what? I can't remember off hand, Qt and kdelibs are the 2 big ones right? were there any other ones as well?
[16:56] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: KDE is the major upstream I work with. Just the other week I submitted a bugfix for the Plasma Netbook shell after consultation with Marco Martin, who works on that component
[16:56] <JontheEchidna> I also co-maintain the shared-desktop-ontologies with the Debian Qt KDE team
[16:56] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, How often do you work with other Ubuntu developers on Ubuntu that has nothing to do with Kubuntu or KDE?
[16:57] <nixternal> there are other people outside of Kubuntu or KDE? :p
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> heh
[16:57] <rgreening> ouch
[16:57] <nixternal> this damn basement!
[16:57] <maco> haha
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: Not too much really. I know I submitted an acpid patch once, and some core-dev-ish person sponsored it.
[16:58]  * soren has a hard stop in 1½ minute
[16:58] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, If the kubuntu package set covered all the packages you need, would you apply for core dev?
[16:59] <geser> JontheEchidna: would you upload this patch yourself if you were core-dev at that time?
[16:59] <cody-somerville> *needed
[16:59] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: by being a core-dev, what benefits can you bring outside of the Kubuntu community?
[16:59] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, What is your opinion on this blog post: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/kubuntu-is-not-ubuntu/ ?
[16:59] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: Probably not, for your first question.
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> geser: The patch was a fairly straight-forward one-liner (a missing include). For anything bigger I would have consulted with the maintainer
[17:00] <nixternal> guess that kind of answers my question too then :(
[17:00] <cjwatson> if I'm actioned to do so by the DMB, I'm prepared to see what I can do to add support for specific exceptions to the seed-based rules for generating package sets
[17:01] <nixternal> cjwatson: I can [ACTION] ya :)
[17:01] <cjwatson> I hadn't planned to do so for lucid because I have a ton of other things to do, but if it's blocking people to the extent that they're prepared to apply for core-dev to workaround it, I guess I should change my mind
[17:01] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: Ah, I would like to direct you to the comment I made in that post: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/kubuntu-is-not-ubuntu/#comment-68
[17:01] <cody-somerville> Would PPU rights be a suitable work around if you don't have time cjwatson?
[17:02] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: I think exceptions in package set generation might actually be less effort
[17:02] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, Do you agree with apachelogger's statement that "Kubuntu is not Ubuntu"?
[17:03] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: Well, in that the Kubuntu derivative of Ubuntu Linux is not the same as the main Ubuntu desktop, yes. I do still feel that it is part of the Ubuntu family
[17:03] <nixternal> cody-somerville: I think "Kubuntu is not Ubuntu" is a bit vague without reading into what apachelogger said. That statement along could be answered yes or no without any further justification and be correct
[17:04] <JontheEchidna> Here's a list of packages that Kubuntu-dev would need to have for it to be useful to me (may not be complete): qt4-x11, akonadi, soprano, libattica/attica, phonon-backends, kde4libs, kdebase-runtime, kdebase-workspace
[17:05] <JontheEchidna> ^these are all updated upstream at or around new KDE releases
[17:05] <nixternal> DMB: what do we want to do here, process the core-dev application or fix it so that kubuntu-dev has access to the packages not previously covered?
[17:06] <cjwatson> I think we should process the core-dev application on its merits, and the package set fixes would be a fallback position
[17:06] <cody-somerville> JontheEchidna, The reason I ask is because I'm a firm believer that 'Kubuntu is Ubuntu' and I think this is an important understanding that needs to exist between developers, especially core developers, so that we all work together in harmony instead of inadvertently working against each other.
[17:06] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: apachelogger is a core developer; are you saying we should expel him? ;-)
[17:06] <geser> I prefer fixing the package sets permissions and use core-dev as a callback
[17:07] <JontheEchidna> cody-somerville: For that meaning, I agree. We should all be one big family.
[17:07] <geser> s/callback/fallback/
[17:07] <nixternal> hehe
[17:07] <cjwatson> (I think it's odd to bring up "do you agree with this other core developer" as a question in a core-dev application to which the expected answer is "no")
[17:07] <JontheEchidna> What I think he was saying was that there isn't a definied level of commerical support that we are entitled to receive from Canonical
[17:07] <JontheEchidna> I do agree with that
[17:09] <cody-somerville> I think what apachelogger meant to say was that Kubuntu is not Canonical. This is why I wanted to get clarification from JontheEchidna to ensure the issue wasn't segregation within the Ubuntu community.
[17:09] <ScottK> cody-somerville: The problem is the term Ubuntu is overloaded and depending on what meaning you pick, it's either true or not.
[17:09] <cjwatson> JontheEchidna: your endorsements are all from Kubuntu folks, although that's certainly understandable.  If you had asked for comments from non-Kubuntu folks, whom would you have asked?  That is, whom do you think you've worked with most outside Kubuntu?
[17:09] <JontheEchidna> cjwatson: I've contributed to jockey, software-properties and language-selector, so probably mvo or pitti
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> though that was more in a coding sense than a packaging sense
[17:10] <JontheEchidna> and KDE code at that
[17:11] <cjwatson> well, yeah, KDE code is spread out through all sorts of packages
[17:12] <JontheEchidna> As a core-dev I would sponsor packages in the sponsor queue that fell under my skill set to review
[17:12] <cjwatson> I have no further questions
[17:13] <nixternal> everyone ready to vote?
[17:13] <cjwatson> yes
[17:13] <cody-somerville> Are we going to vote on core-dev or are we going to investigate the seed exceptions for JontheEchidna first instead?
[17:14] <cjwatson> I think we should vote on core-dev anyway; exceptions will take longer, and are moot (for this application anyway) if we think that he is suitable for core-dev in any case
[17:14] <nixternal> geser, stgraber-n900, soren: any further questions?
[17:14] <geser> no
[17:14] <stgraber-n900> nope
[17:14] <soren> no
[17:14] <nixternal> [VOTE]Jonathan Thomas Core Developer Application
[17:14] <MootBot> Please vote on: Jonathan Thomas Core Developer Application.
[17:14] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[17:14] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[17:15] <nixternal> +1
[17:15] <MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[17:16] <cjwatson> +1 - I was unsure at first, but I spent some time looking over JontheEchidna's changes to non-KDE packages and they're the same type of thing that make it useful for Riddell to be a core developer - extensions of KDE frontends in core packages, that sort of thing - and I think his breadth of experience is suitable at this point
[17:16] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[17:17] <soren> +1. Sorry, I'm slow, I'm in a meeting right now.
[17:17] <cjwatson> soren: I think you need a space after the voting characters in order for mootbot to parse it
[17:17] <soren> MootBot: fascist
[17:17] <soren> +1
[17:17] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:17] <geser> +0  - I see fixing the package sets the better solution, but believe JontheEchidna would be a responsible core-dev
[17:17] <MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:17] <cody-somerville> +0 - For the same reasons as geser.
[17:17] <MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:18] <stgraber-n900> +0 same as geser
[17:18] <MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber-n900. 3 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 3
[17:18] <nixternal> [ENDVOTE]
[17:18] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 3
[17:19] <geser> hmm, what does result mean?
[17:19] <cody-somerville> It means we need to defer to ML I think.
[17:19] <nixternal> i am kind of confused, as we were voting on a core developer application, and 3 made it a vote on solution instead of the fact at hand
[17:20] <cjwatson> I think it means persia's vote governs
[17:20] <nixternal> but yes, it needs to go to the ml so persia can vote
[17:20] <soren> Really? It's a +3.
[17:20] <soren> Does one need +4 to "win"?
[17:20] <maco> soren: 3/7 is not a majority...
[17:21] <JontheEchidna> just as a note, I have to go to lunch really soon here...
[17:21] <soren> maco: I understand. It just seems odd that the fact that people abstain rather than vote against makes no difference.
[17:21] <nixternal> right, if persia was to vote +0 or -1, the vote is still positive
[17:22] <cjwatson> a vote against would make it more difficult to reach +4
[17:22] <soren> cjwatson: Understood as well. I just wasn't aware that it had to be +4.
[17:22] <nixternal> roshambo?
[17:22] <soren> If so, what's the point of being able to abstain?
[17:22] <soren> nixternal: Over TCP? Sounds like fun.
[17:22] <Riddell> isn't it a quorum of three?  I've not heard of a majority needing to be positive
[17:22] <cjwatson> at some point we should codify all this as I think we make it up as we go along too much.  For now, let's defer until persia's vote, and let JontheEchidna go to lunch
[17:23] <nixternal> cjwatson: +1
[17:23] <DarkwingDuck> I thought to Abstain a vote was not to vote. Thus allowing the 4 remaining to do the voting. Instead of it being 3/7 it is not 3/4
[17:23] <JontheEchidna> Thanks. I gotta go now.
[17:23] <DarkwingDuck> s/not/now
[17:24] <cjwatson> DarkwingDuck: unfortunately, we never established a sufficiently precise set of rules; we ought to, but in the meantime there appear to be varying interpretations among the voting body
[17:24] <nixternal> [ACTION]Jonathan Thomas' Core Developer Application - take it to the mailing list as persia needs to vote - currently 3 for, 3 abstain
[17:24] <MootBot> ACTION received: Jonathan Thomas' Core Developer Application - take it to the mailing list as persia needs to vote - currently 3 for, 3 abstain
[17:24] <nixternal> [ACTION]Any other business
[17:24] <MootBot> ACTION received: Any other business
[17:24] <geser> yes
[17:24] <nixternal> do we have any other business that needs to be taken care of?
[17:24] <DarkwingDuck> cjwatson: ahh, Okay.
[17:24] <cjwatson> nevertheless, if persia votes other than +1, I'll make sure to get the seed exception stuff done
[17:25] <geser> nixternal: you can now recount the votes for cyphermox
[17:25] <cjwatson> so that either way JontheEchidna can get his work done
[17:25] <geser> all have voted now
[17:25] <nixternal> geser: do you have the count off hand?
[17:26] <geser> one moment
[17:26] <nixternal> geser: I count +1
[17:26] <maco> crimsun says you need at least $QUORUM positive votes
[17:26] <maco> so if quorum is 3, then +3 is enough
[17:26] <geser> 2x +1, 1x -1 and 4x 0
[17:27] <nixternal> geser: hrmm, so what does that mean?
[17:27] <nixternal> hahaha
[17:27] <nixternal> does he get it or no
[17:27] <geser> nixternal: you are the chair :)
[17:27] <cjwatson> that seems far too weak for acceptance to me
[17:28] <cjwatson> but, well, I'm not the chair :)
[17:28] <nixternal> cjwatson: yeah, I was thinking the same thing, however +1 is a positive vote, oh this is fun
[17:28] <nixternal> great, I either get to make or break someones day
[17:28] <cjwatson> if you're really stuck, appeal to sabdfl for a ruling
[17:28] <cyphermox> doesn't sound like a pass to me ;)
[17:29] <nixternal> I am going to have to say, with the comments left in abstention and the vote against, I would have to say no at this time
[17:29] <nixternal> anyone want to email him and let him know?
[17:29] <geser> nixternal: you can tell cyphermox directly, he is here
[17:30] <nixternal> oh, cyphermox don't take this as a bad thing, i think after touching some more packages, and getting your hands a bit more dirty, you will be golden...i would say you should apply again probably the month after lucid+1 opens, that way there you can touch more packages and fix the things people either voted +0 or -1 said
[17:30] <cyphermox> indeed
[17:31] <cyphermox> figured as much, hence why I didn't harass persia more about letting me know of the results
[17:31] <nixternal> groovy, sorry for breaking the bad news, but it really isn't bad news, it is just a "hey, come back again soon, we need ya!"
[17:31] <cyphermox> yep
[17:31] <nixternal> any other business?
[17:32] <nixternal> meeting adjourned in 10 seconds....
[17:32] <nixternal> going once
[17:32] <nixternal> #endmeeting
[17:32] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:32.
[17:32] <nixternal> thanks everyone!
[17:33] <nixternal> I will summarize the meeting and get it in the team reports, as well as mail out the log so persia can catch up, though he is in here now and can reaad back log as well
[17:33] <stgraber-n900> thanks, see you in two weeks !
[17:35] <nixternal> thanks! have a great rest of the day everyone!
[17:36] <geser> you too
[17:41] <nixternal> come on you silly MootBot, update the logs already
[17:59] <JFo> o/
[17:59]  * jjohansen waves
[18:00] <kamalm> o/
[18:00]  * ogasawara waves
[18:00]  * apw looks vague and useless
[18:00]  * JFo slaps apw
[18:00]  * smb waits confused
[18:00] <JFo> :)
[18:00] <bjf> just a sec, i'm here
[18:01] <bjf> #startmeeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:01] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:01] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[18:02] <bjf> #
[18:02] <bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[18:02] <bjf> #
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: JFo to send out regression bug day announcements on monday
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: JFo to send out regression bug day announcements on monday
[18:02] <JFo> e-mail went out last week for the schedule
[18:02] <JFo> sent to all bug lists that normal bug days go to
[18:02] <JFo> ..
[18:02] <bjf> so we can consider this one done?
[18:02] <JFo> yessir
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: JFo to do a wiki page on regression bug days
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: JFo to do a wiki page on regression bug days
[18:02] <JFo> wiki page for the Bug Day is located here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelBugDay
[18:03] <JFo> I'll be removing the last 3 dates as final freeze is on the 17th iirc
[18:03] <JFo> ..
[18:03] <bjf> done as well, nice
[18:03] <JFo> yessir :)
[18:03] <bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
[18:03] <JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (13 bugs, 6 blueprints)
[18:03] <JFo> [18:03] <JFo> Beta 2 Milestoned Bugs (93 bugs against all packages (down 15))
[18:03] <JFo>  * 13 linux kernel bugs (no change)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug (no change)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs (no change)
[18:03] <JFo> [18:03] <JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (300 bugs against all packages (no change))
[18:03] <JFo>  * 32 linux kernel bugs (up 2)
[18:04] <JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs  (no change)
[18:04] <JFo>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug (no change)
[18:04] <JFo>  * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs (down 1)
[18:04] <JFo> [18:04] <JFo> Milestoned Features -
[18:04] <JFo>  * 0 blueprints
[18:04] <JFo>     
[18:04] <JFo> [18:04] <JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:123 (up 4)
[18:04] <JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
[18:04] <JFo> Breakdown by status:
[18:04] <JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
[18:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
[18:04] <JFo> ..
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
[18:05] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
[18:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling
[18:06] <JFo>  * Only outstanding item for beta 2 still open: [leannogasawara] apport -- sub-system directed reporting [amber]:INPROGRESS
[18:06] <JFo> all other tasks complete
[18:06] <JFo> ..
[18:06] <JFo> err
[18:06] <JFo> all other beta 2 tasks
[18:06] <JFo> ..
[18:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
[18:06] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
[18:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
[18:07] <apw> PATA and SATA pull out is done and some debian installer fallout sorted out (thanks smb), and the review of the builtin sub-systems complete.
[18:07] <apw> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
[18:07] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
[18:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
[18:07] <sconklin> I've just released a test kernel which addresses the flickering problem with some Intel graphics devices.
[18:07] <sconklin> There are five bugs open against this: http://bit.ly/aiKuuL
[18:07] <sconklin> ..
[18:07] <apw> We have some flickering issue outstanding which look to be resolved with
[18:07] <apw> a powersaving patch which is in testing.  We also have one further twitching
[18:07] <apw> issue which should have test kernels today.  Otherwise we are continuing
[18:07] <apw> to debug issues as they appear.
[18:07] <apw> ..
[18:07] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
[18:07] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
[18:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
[18:08] <jjohansen> Looking at Bug #458299, Bug #529288, Bug #544764, Bug #549428, which all seem to be inter-related or even possibly symptoms of the same bug
[18:08] <jjohansen> ..
[18:08] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
[18:08] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
[18:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
[18:08] <apw> Looks like the remaining ureadahead work will get postponed to Lucid+1 as
[18:08] <apw> we the userspace bits are not likely to make Lucid.  That likely will close
[18:08] <apw> off the blueprint.
[18:08] <apw> ..
[18:09] <apw> (we can try and drop it from the meeting next week)
[18:09] <bjf> apw, ack
[18:09] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
[18:09] <bjf> Did a bunch of arsenal work, blasted several hundred alsa-driver bugs with automated
[18:09] <bjf> comments.
[18:09] <bjf> ..
[18:09] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
[18:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
[18:10] <cnd> Pushed a new set of packages out
[18:10] <cnd> and a CFT
[18:10] <cnd> no news since
[18:10] <cnd> ..
[18:10] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
[18:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
[18:10] <jjohansen> Did lots of testing for Bug #540378, Bug #527208, haven't been able to trip either so we are looking good for EC2.
[18:10] <jjohansen> ..
[18:11] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
[18:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
[18:11] <apw> Lucid is at stable 2.6.32.10+drm33.1.  We are prepping to the Beta-2 freeze
[18:11] <apw> on Thursday, and expect to upload kernels for that early Wednesday.  Anything
[18:11] <apw> we need in should be up for review _today_.
[18:11] <apw> ..
[18:11] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
[18:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
[18:11] <smb> Hardy:       2.6.24-27.68  (security)
[18:11] <smb>              2.6.24-27.69  (proposed)[ 6]  1/ 3 verifications done (+1)
[18:11] <smb> Intrepid:    2.6.27-17.46  (security)
[18:11] <smb> Jaunty:      2.6.28-18.60  (security)
[18:11] <smb> Karmic:      2.6.31-20.58  (security)
[18:11] <smb>              2.6.31-21.59  (proposed)[ 6]  2/19 verifications done (+2)
[18:11] <smb>  - LBM       2.6.31-20.22  (security)
[18:11] <smb>              2.6.31-21.23  (proposed)[ 6]  0/ 2 verifications done
[18:11] <smb>  - mvl-dove  2.6.31-212.26 (security)
[18:12] <smb>              2.6.31-213.27 (proposed)[ 6]
[18:12] <smb>  - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-109.25 (security)
[18:12] <smb>              2.6.31-110.26 (proposed)[ 6]  0/ 1 verifications done
[18:12] <smb>                                            1/ 1 failed! -> #507416
[18:12] <smb>              2.6.31-111.27 (uploaded)
[18:12] <smb>  - ec2       2.6.31-109.25 (security)
[18:12] <smb>              2.6.31-110.26 (proposed)[ 6]
[18:12] <smb> Karmic ec2 and mvl-dove have no open bug reports but were rebased to the
[18:12] <smb> version of master in proposed. Asked for quick re-test.
[18:12] <smb> Karmic fsl-imx51 needs to set the status right. An update for it has been
[18:12] <smb> uploaded today (consisting of previous and new changelog).
[18:12] <smb> ..
[18:12] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:12] <JFo> Incoming Bugs
[18:12] <JFo> 438/568 Lucid Bugs (up 130)
[18:12] <JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
[18:12] <JFo> [18:12] <JFo>   * 128/166 lucid bugs
[18:12] <JFo> [18:12] <JFo>   * 12 karmic bugs
[18:13] <JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
[18:13] <JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
[18:13] <JFo>   * 1 hardy bug
[18:13] <JFo> [18:13] <JFo>   * 53 karmic bugs
[18:13] <JFo>   * 21 jaunty bugs
[18:13] <JFo>   * 11 intrepid bugs
[18:13] <JFo>   * 4 hardy bugs
[18:13] <JFo> [18:13] <JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
[18:13] <JFo> please note the big bump to lucid regressions
[18:13] <JFo> ..
[18:13]  * apw queries
[18:13] <bjf> apw, go
[18:13] <apw> whats the 128/166 mean?
[18:14] <JFo> last week to this week, sorry I should have pulled out the last week's number
[18:14] <apw> and i presume the bug jump is post beta-1
[18:14] <JFo> it is
[18:14] <apw> so in a way its good
[18:14] <apw> ..
[18:14] <JFo> ..
[18:15] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:15] <JFo> Today is another Kernel Team 'regression-' bug day. Thanks for working on these last week. The next Kernel Regression Bug Day will be on Thursday.
[18:15] <JFo> Thursday of this week that is
[18:15] <JFo> ..
[18:15] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:15] <apw> .
[18:16] <bjf> apw, go
[18:16] <apw> sconklin, is that patch going to be ready for review today?  the pll one?
[18:16] <sconklin> I can go ahead and send it if you want - I've smoke tested it but I don't have affected hardware
[18:16] <sconklin> no verification that it works
[18:17] <apw> sconklin, wahts the h/w affected?
[18:17] <cnd> sconklin: what hw do you need?
[18:17] <sconklin> one sec
[18:17] <sconklin> 915GM and 945GM or some subset thereof
[18:18] <cnd> sconklin: I have a pinetrail if that is affected
[18:18] <dhillon-v10> sconklin: I have a 945GM on this machine, so I may be able to help testing it :)
[18:18] <apw> sconklin, just bear in mind the freeze for b-2 is basicaly my morning tommororw
[18:18] <apw> and after b-2 we are going to be hard to get stuff past
[18:18] <sconklin> dhillon-v10: excellent - have you had screen flickering?
[18:19] <dhillon-v10> sconklin: not really :) should I be experiencing some?
[18:19] <sconklin> http://people.canonical.com/~sconklin/test-i915/
[18:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~sconklin/test-i915/
[18:19] <sconklin> well, that's the bug this fixes
[18:20] <sconklin> I'll go ahead and post it to the list - it's been accepted upstream so I feel pretty ok about it
[18:20] <apw> sconklin, thanks
[18:20] <sconklin> np
[18:20] <apw> ..
[18:20] <bjf> anyone else?
[18:20] <kamalm> .
[18:20] <bjf> kamalm, go
[18:20] <kamalm> I am confirmed for the April CELF Embedded Linux Conf. in San Francisco and have requested an invitation for the Collab Conf. to follow.  I will meet some of you there :-)
[18:20] <kamalm> ..
[18:21] <apw> cool
[18:21] <cnd> looking forward to it :)
[18:21] <bjf> nice
[18:21] <bjf> anyone else?
[18:21] <bjf> thanks everyone
[18:21] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:21] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:21.
[18:21] <apw> bjf ta
[18:21] <cnd> thanks bjf
[18:21] <JFo> thanks bjf
[18:21] <kamalm> bjf: thanks
[18:22] <psurbhi> bjf, thanks :)