[00:00] I'm about to order a couple of Kubuntu ones [00:00] the Kubuntu stress ball if VERY nice [00:00] DarkwingDuck: you could like blog about how you need a new mug and how you are going to akamdey and then I am sure one gets mugs at akademy ;) [00:00] oi oi [00:00] yo nixternal [00:00] mugs or hugs [00:00] apachelogger: roger :D [00:00] nixternal: ping [00:00] Nightrose: ping even :) [00:00] hey, I gotta roll, so if there is an item i need to be a part of, can we do it now? [00:01] good evening friends [00:01] 'elo [00:01] meep [00:01] yo [00:01] agenda at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings [00:01] cool, quorum [00:01] I think we should start with membership [00:01] membership is the traditional place to start [00:01] * rgreening luvs word that start with Q [00:01] DarkwingDuck, shtylman: who wants to go first? [00:01] rgreening: like Dan Quayle? [00:02] I am +100000 for both DarkwingDuck and shtylman [00:02] * rgreening needs to get Kubuntu-dev! [00:02] nixternal: +1 [00:02] Riddell: doesn't matter [00:02] DarkwingDuck: you start! :D [00:02] DarkwingDuck: care to introduce yourself? [00:02] for reference: https://edge.launchpad.net/~darkwingduck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DarkwingDuck [00:03] I am David Wonderly. I've been working on Kubuntu-Docs and with the netbook guys for about 7 months now. Was just added for commit access in the docs [00:03] also, fyi, I just uploaded KOffice 2.1.2 and l10n for it, about a day or 2 early <- apachelogger your KOfficeUserReview thing, it is simple, no, you can't replace oo.o with koffice just yet, and upstream advises against it still [00:03] I'm married with 3 kids and currently just moved to Mississippi from San Diego. I'm active duty in the US Navy and they are quite supportive of my work here [00:03] nixternal: KOfficeUserReview is a spec for next cycle, iirc [00:03] nixternal: you did not read the page :P [00:03] https://edge.launchpad.net/~darkwingduck https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DarkwingDuck [00:04] apachelogger: don't have time to read it, so I just looked at the description [00:04] back on topic! [00:04] ;) [00:04] DarkwingDuck: can you tell a bit more about your netbook work? [00:04] Testing and bug running with ScottK along with writing the Docs for it [00:04] sounds great [00:05] I've tested it on a netbook as well as my ThinkPad X41 tablet [00:05] * ScottK definitely gives DarkwingDuck a +1 [00:05] DarkwingDuck: Can I hold you responsible for wasting a few weekends watching Darkwing Duck episodes? [00:05] DarkwingDuck: does tabletting work? [00:05] *for me wasting [00:06] JontheEchidna: Weekends? n00b :P [00:06] DarkwingDuck: what is the IRC Focus Group ? [00:06] o/ [00:06] apachelogger: Yes actually it works wonders [00:06] sweet [00:06] KC, I have to go, I am highly in favor of both DarkwingDuck and shtylman for Kubuntu membership, and for the logo, I am hoping the KC does me proud and picks the current logo with the blue circle thing [00:06] ok considering doc work is always needed, netbook efforts are needed, ScottK gives you a +1 and the nick pretty much demands it: +1 [00:06] back in a while [00:06] Riddell: I am the lead for that particular team -- if DarkwingDuck will allow me :) [00:06] Riddell: the IRC FG in the BeginnersTeam moderates the BT channels [00:06] thanks nixternal [00:06] paultag_: go ahead [00:07] I know my opinion is not very wheighty in the Kubuntu community, but I endorse DarkwingDuck 1000%. I have worked with him on the Beginners Team, and he does top notch work. There is not a day where I have doubted the quality of his work, nor his judgement on any of my teams [00:07] Nightrose: Let's Get Dangerous ;) [00:07] :D [00:07] haha [00:08] Any other questions? [00:08] I'm good [00:08] +1 from me. Anyone who can doc and put up with nix a [00:08] +1 [00:08] DarkwingDuck: quick answer: python or gator? [00:08] t the same time deserves it :P [00:08] DarkwingDuck, is a great addition to any group. He has a focus on solution-oriented problem solving. He also likes doing things with minimal drama. [00:08] +1 [00:08] +1 [00:08] +1 from me too, nice amount of support there [00:08] apachelogger: PERL :P [00:08] works for me [00:08] welcome to membership DarkwingDuck [00:08] +1 definately, docs++ [00:08] shtylman: about? [00:08] ruby would be the correct answer [00:08] +1 [00:09] DarkwingDuck: congrats and welcome [00:09] Thank you Riddle and everyone else for all the support over past 7 months [00:09] Riddell: ? [00:09] Thanks :) [00:09] 'grats!!! [00:09] shtylman: your turn :) [00:09] shtylman: please introduce yourself and your work in Kubuntu [00:09] Right on. [00:09] shtylman: you wanted to become member? :P [00:09] did I? [00:09] I didn't realise I had to do public speaking [00:10] ^^ [00:10] for reference: https://edge.launchpad.net/~shtylman https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RomanShtylman [00:10] well.. here goes [00:10] my name is Roman Shtylman and I am a Kubuntu user [00:10] :) [00:10] I am a software developer [00:10] * rgreening though he was a member! haha [00:10] and that is what I do for kubuntu [00:11] rgreening: Same :) [00:11] Oh dear, shtylman is got to be a +1. [00:11] my day job is software development and my night job is kubuntu :) [00:11] rgreening: always the same with you, you are not paying attention :P [00:11] shtylman == ubiquity GOD! [00:11] shtylman: when do you sleep? [00:11] so yea... I work on ubiquity and little things here and there [00:11] apachelogger: sleep... hmm [00:11] apachelogger: lol [00:11] ah [00:11] +1 [00:11] what is this sleep you speak of [00:11] +100000 for ubiquity love [00:11] little things like OpenOffice [00:11] <3 shtylman [00:11] yea [00:12] +1 for not sleeping [00:12] :D [00:12] +5 for shtylman :) [00:12] +100 [00:12] plus another +100 for OOo [00:12] I will deff continue my kubuntu support [00:12] +q [00:12] it is even my work computer :) [00:12] äh 1 [00:12] =i++ from me [00:12] Nightrose: ^ [00:13] shtylman: can you tell a bit about your future plans for kubuntu? [00:13] basically... I love development... and love making new things so thats what I try to do [00:13] Nightrose: global domination? [00:13] muwaha [00:13] I don't have any say in the matter, but shtylman has always been quick with fixing any ubiquity bug I pointed out, so +1 from me :) [00:13] haha ok [00:13] Nightrose: but really... plans for installer are the same as always [00:13] Without shtylman I think that the installer wouldn't have seen any development at all for the past 2 releases, seriously [00:13] ok looking at all the cheering you got and the fact that you took on OOo i have to give you a +1 [00:13] to keep in step with gtk ubiquity changes [00:13] as long as he keeps OOO and ubiquity happy Im happy :P [00:13] as well as keep tabs on the artwork issues as they happen [00:14] I also talked about a live assistant... which I will reserect at some point again [00:14] but that was a broader long term plan [00:14] I think Riddell didn't vote yet [00:14] +1 from me too, I'm glad I finally managed to persude him to go for membership [00:14] hehe [00:14] shtylman: congrats and welcome [00:14] welcome in shtylman [00:15] basically... I like to think I will continue development and branch out for all the little kde related things we need when they come up :) [00:15] \o/ [00:15] welcome DarkwingDuck and shtylman [00:15] yay :) :) [00:15] DarkwingDuck: congrats [00:15] Thank you [00:15] shtylman: congrats [00:15] congratulations DarkwingDuck and shtylman [00:15] ;) [00:15] Congrats shtylman, DarkwingDuck [00:16] next on the agenda is a discussion on the new logo [00:16] artwork is a contentious issue so we may well not come to a clear resolution here but we can but try [00:16] which license will the new logo get, same as the old one? [00:16] we're still waiting on the font rendering from the design team so only a standin k for now [00:17] neversfelde: yes, creative commons copyright, trademark restrictions apply [00:17] anybody have a link to the suggestions handy? [00:17] http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-logos.png [00:17] that's what we came up with from discussions [00:17] Riddell: to clarify the agenda -- the text part will use the ubuntu font, monochrome and we are waiting on a K. we're deciding the icon and its placement? [00:17] so afaik, it is not allowed to change it and only add new things? [00:17] Riddell: does the k color change? [00:17] Riddell: Will #9 have the circle cut at the top or is that a cropping error? [00:17] yuriy_work: right [00:18] I don't like any of the ones with the leading logo [00:18] I love the last one (#10) on the bottom. It's clean and clear [00:18] apachelogger: k will match the rest of the characters in colour and style [00:18] k [00:18] it feels unbalanced [00:18] I personally like the 1 and 2, no preference between those two though [00:18] +1 on what shtylman said [00:18] my preference is also for 1 and 2 [00:18] rgreening: I wish the gears were more distinct when they cut into the circle in #10 [00:18] which is what the Canonical design team gave us [00:18] for what it is worth: I find all of them worse than the current logo [00:19] the single cog may cause brand confusion w/ KDE, imo [00:19] yea 1,2 or one of the last two [00:19] I think Ubuntu switched back to one more like #10 [00:19] 2 [00:19] so... I have some comments :) [00:19] I like 1, 2 and 10 [00:19] I do not like 3 or 4 [00:19] I like #8, but I vote for what shtylman likes. [00:19] ok, here's my take, if we change the logo, it needs to meet the following relatively objective criteria: 1) Keep the Circle of Friends 2) Keep a gear to represent KDE 3) Work in small sizes 4) work in monochrome [00:19] If the spacing was fixed, I'd like 10 too [00:19] #2 or #10 for me [00:19] cause the gear looks like a spoke [00:19] the problem there is the circle-of-gear-friends is smaller so at some scales it'll be hard to make out the gears [00:19] yuriy_work: yes sounds good [00:19] but I can be persuaded on #3 if others like it [00:20] that's why we have 1 for large scale and 2 for small scale [00:20] I don't think ANY of the suggestions linked by Riddell follow those criteria. [00:20] I also don't like the ones without a circle... like #4 or #6 [00:20] I think the containing circle is nice [00:20] I find the gears in #5 are nicer (smoother) that #3 [00:20] so if it is not allowed to change the whole logo, it will be difficult to adopt it, if we choose a logo with the circle button at the end. As far as I remeber we had a lot of problems, while adding -de.org. [00:20] locos will get problems [00:20] ryanakca: yea [00:21] some of these do: http://fatbuttlarry.blogspot.com/2009/08/kubuntu-logo-mock-ups.html in particular I like the first one "gear hands" [00:21] #3 and #4 have bad gears [00:21] #8 is the best alternate gear, imo [00:21] it keeps the CoF idea very well, has a gear, and doesn't have any small parts [00:21] yuriy_work: you think #1 and #2 don't work at small sizes? or some other worry? [00:21] im a fan on #8 ... but I am based about that one :) [00:21] Riddell: no better than the current logo, since it IS the current logo [00:22] Hmmm... Is there an organized voting system on this or is this just the "let's all say which ones we like in a haphazard moment" time? [00:22] heh [00:22] What was the purpose of changing the logo? [00:22] DarkwingDuck: doesn't work at small sizes [00:22] thats one reason [00:22] ryanakca: seeing where we're standing and then fighting it out ;-) [00:22] * apachelogger doesnt like the gears TBH :P [00:22] also to keep up with the new Ubuntu branding, since we're a Kubuntu brand [00:22] ryanakca: mostly getting opinions now [00:22] So, any of the gear hands will not work... [00:22] *since we're an Ubuntu brand [00:22] 1,2,9,10 wont work then... :/ [00:23] can we use the logo also for Kickoff? [00:23] Riddell: do you have anything better than the crappy png? [00:23] lex79: that is why we should keep scability in mind [00:23] cause its rendered horribly [00:23] :) [00:23] apachelogger: k [00:23] rgreening: http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/kubuntu-logos.svg ? [00:23] yuriy_work: honestly they don't look very kubuntu to me :( except maybe 6 [00:23] and I think we are basing a lot of the opinions on the rendering [00:23] agreed on #8 [00:24] I'd just like to add that if you're going to go with gears, the actual cogs need to be fairly distinct, else you may as well not use gears [00:24] rgreening: have you zoomed in? that could be your scaling issues [00:24] 6 or 8 [00:24] crimsun: indeed [00:24] there isn't any point in saying "look, cogs" when one has to squint [00:24] Meh. I'm not crazy about any of those [00:25] is staying with the old logo an option? [00:25] gear teeth make things complicated [00:25] neversfelde: thats #1 [00:25] neversfelde: that's pretty much option 10 the way i see it. assuming the cutouts are fixed [00:25] ^^ [00:25] neversfelde: we could but I think we'd look very old fashioned and get a lot of "nobody loves kubuntu" comments [00:25] Riddell: can we start pruning those which we deff don't want? [00:26] we've been using the current logo since gutsy, iirc [00:26] My vote on the gears is #5. [00:26] on that note I would like to mention that I got loads of comments on my kubuntu is no stepchildren blog post that suggested kubuntu to change name alltogehter [00:26] * rgreening agrees with yuriy_work [00:26] apachelogger: nooo, Kubuntu is good name [00:27] I find that it is the smoothest one [00:27] I agree.. I like kubuntu [00:27] Riddell: so I would like to mention again, that we should think about kubuntu locos, if we choose an option with the circle button at the end, they cannot change it for their needs [00:27] * claydoh votes for either 5 or 7 [00:27] #7 has something to it [00:27] neversfelde: same is with Ubuntu ? [00:27] placement wise i think go with whatever Ubuntu is doing [00:27] one of those... "cool" factors imho [00:28] Tm_T: I think so [00:28] Tm_T: it is more about having kubuntu derived from ubuntu [00:28] yuriy_work: yes [00:28] thus naturally tying us to the brand in general [00:28] #7, you can't see the space between the gears in the middle when you zoom out [00:28] which ultimately is why we are here discussing a new logo anyway [00:28] apachelogger: and I like to keep that fact too, I find us being part of Ubuntu family [00:28] brb, kids [00:28] *nod* just wanted to mention it :) [00:28] aye [00:29] DarkwingDuck: say hi from us [00:29] but for the actual logo -- I think all the new suggestions (3-8) quite frankly suck. I like the ones with the old logo, except that the old logo doesn't work at small sizes (which IMO isn't that big of an issue but we may want to take the opportunity to fix it) [00:29] my vote current stands at #7 or #8 [00:29] I am against the last two [00:30] 2 with new gears [00:31] hmm my browser resizes the logo quite a bit and i find 1 acceptable at small sizes [00:31] the old one or a license change :) [00:31] Nightrose: that's same as 2 but just smaller, right? [00:31] yes [00:32] * ScottK is distracted with making dinner, but continues to agree with shtylman. [00:32] Riddell: are there thoughts from the artwork team? [00:32] ScottK: agree on which point? [00:32] I would like to get the circle + gears theme less noisy [00:32] shtylman: which artwork team? [00:32] does kwii have any suggestions? [00:32] Riddell: on everything it seems [00:32] Actualy 2 and 8 are nice, though I think I'd rather the icon/gear before the Kubuntu [00:32] the problem with 7 imho is that it is too far from the CoF [00:32] Riddell: artwork team being the people that made the ubuntu logo? [00:32] shtylman: they want #1 and #2 [00:33] I think I like #1/2 the best, but I also could be persuaded for #8, personally [00:33] jep [00:33] Riddell: any reason? [00:33] * shtylman might feel compelled to persuaded JontheEchidna about #8 :) [00:33] shtylman: because it matches the ubuntu logo I expect [00:33] I see [00:33] ;) === claydoh_ is now known as claydoh [00:34] I'd be happy if the majority went to either 1/2 or to 8, basically [00:34] can we have a vote between 2 and 8? [00:34] Zoomed out to 25%, I find 1's gears unviewable, 2,9,10, the gears look like circles. #7 just looks like some kind of celtic knot. #5 and #8 are still clear though. Of course, that's by zooming out on the PNG in gwenview and not the SVG [00:34] I think the logo is too big in #2 [00:34] I wish we had some better mockups in monochrome and folly colorized to base our decision on [00:35] s/folly/fully/ [00:35] Nightrose: we can yes [00:35] ah, would the bootsplash image be monochrome? The background is already blue [00:35] ryanakca: is the unviewable gears a problem though? [00:35] JontheEchidna: I would make it less blue really [00:35] too much in your face right now IMHO [00:35] even if the gears are unviewable, it'll still look like a blue Ubuntu circle [00:35] so I think a good question to ask is ... how small do we want to limit this too [00:36] obviously we arn't gonna make it work for 8x8 [00:36] cause I assume black/grey lettering is not what we would use for the logo with a blue circle/gear and this makes my eyes bleed a little [00:36] are we talking 22x22, 32x32? [00:36] whats the cutoff point here [00:36] Nightrose: Well, if I'm printing promotional material, I don't want any fuzzy spots on the logo [00:36] do you think there is a way to get new logos for locos from the artwork team or to get canonical to accept a change of the new logo? [00:36] Riddell: All of them. [00:36] Zooming the logo list to 25%, that gives me the size of logo I can imagine using on kubuntu.org [00:37] ... that's ~215px wide by however many tall. [00:37] neversfelde: they won't be doing logos for every loco team, but they're happy to see people make variations [00:37] I still think its between #7 and #8 ... from the options I see [00:37] Hmm, I think I do like #8 better. It's clear, KDE, pseudo-circle-of-gears, plus we could use it as a start button [00:37] even at small sizes [00:38] Between #7 and #8, #8 is much clearer here [00:38] Riddell: ok [00:38] ok let's vote and see [00:38] who's for 2? [00:38] before we vote [00:38] -1 #7 +1 #8 [00:38] I think we need to trim away the ones we DONT want [00:38] #8 is clearest here at all sizes [00:38] shtylman: it's trimmed down to 2 7 and 8 [00:39] i really don't think 3-8 are an option, and i'm surprised they were proposed by the artwork team, because they don't keep the CoF [00:39] CoF ? [00:39] Cog of Friends [00:39] *circle [00:39] heh [00:39] oh [00:39] :P [00:39] do they have to? [00:39] xubuntu doesn't? [00:39] yuriy_work: they're not proposed by canonical's design team, they're proposed by us [00:39] #8 tries to a bit [00:39] Xubuntu has the circle + a mouse through it, iirc [00:39] Riddell: oh [00:40] * shtylman is against #2 because the logo is too big [00:40] I agree, 8 does match the CoF [00:40] shtylman: they don't *have* to, I just think they should [00:40] #7 could be a bit bigger [00:40] Yeah, I think #8 is CoF-y enough [00:40] yuriy_work: gotcha [00:40] * rgreening ammends my vote to only #8 :) [00:40] ok let's try this again - please say 2, 7 or 8 now :D [00:40] #8 is the best, between #2,7,8 [00:40] #8 [00:40] 8 [00:40] Riddell: can we can a review with #7 having a bigger logo? [00:41] 2 [00:41] 2 [00:41] closer in size to #8 [00:41] is that where Ubuntu is placing it? [00:41] undecided 2 and 8 [00:41] iirc for #8 I used the ubuntu size... but I could be wrong [00:41] 1/2 for me [00:41] same [00:42] just needs bit tidying [00:42] shtylman: #1 matches the ubuntu size as does #7 [00:42] yes, 1 or 2 [00:42] Nightrose: I guess #7 got voted out [00:42] Riddell: can we give 2 and 8 to the design team for refining? [00:42] Riddell: gotcha [00:42] Riddell: jep [00:42] Nightrose: good idea [00:42] Nightrose: we can although that doesn't help in chosing between them :) [00:42] Nightrose: or even if they can merge them [00:42] i think the smaller size in 1 looks a little more professional than 2 [00:42] Riddell: :D [00:42] well, I'd like 7, except it's a bit too "busy" for the size it's at [00:43] * rgreening agrees [00:43] but #8 looks like it'd go better as a start button [00:43] * claydoh agrees with JontheEchidna , votes 8 [00:43] 1, 7, or 8 [00:43] #8 is non-busy and that works best with glow effects like we may want in the splash [00:44] ok we're getting a majority for 8 here :D [00:44] any strong objections to 8? [00:44] not enough CoF [00:44] it still has it though [00:44] I have to run... but will be home later to hear the results of this :) [00:44] shtylman: have fun [00:45] it throws away our current circle of gear friends, which is quite a big change [00:45] true [00:45] means the jumper davmor2's wife spent 6 months knitting me is no use any more [00:45] and its not CoF really [00:45] ohnoes! [00:45] * Nightrose is getting a bad headache and should probably go to bed soon [00:46] we could go with #8 for beta 2 and see what the feedback from the world is like [00:46] time for a change!!! [00:46] we are about change.. no? [00:46] Let's get dangerous! [00:46] :P [00:46] rofl JontheEchidna [00:46] nixternal: are you able to do us a plymouth splash with that logo? [00:46] Well, if we go with Nightrose's suggestion of having the design team refine them, mull it over and look at it again in a bit? [00:46] I'm in favor of a trial for beta2 [00:47] it can't be final for beta 2 anyway, no good "k" yet [00:47] i think #8 will hold up at kickoff sizes better than 1&2 [00:47] uhhhh [00:47] that will get us flack though [00:47] heh we should have a rotating boot splash, so each boot we see a different one :D [00:47] the bad K [00:47] attempted to say 10min ago but network fail: i think #8 will hold up at kickoff sizes better than 1&2 [00:48] Nightrose: we should make it look really obviously crappy [00:48] hehe might work yes [00:48] comic sans :D [00:48] maco: current consensus is to try #8 for beta2, and gauge reaction [00:48] ok [00:48] I'm still against changing the kickoff icon in the panel, but we should change the kubuntu logo in the top right of kickoff which is rubbish now [00:48] Should we use a different font in the bootsplash until the K is ready? [00:49] oh right... that's supposed to be top right of kickoff.. (my panel's on the left) [00:49]