[01:04] <cached> Hi, Was what I said so horrible to get perma ban?
[01:04] <Tm_T> cached: you are not permanently banned, it's just that you haven't discussed about it yet (:
[01:04] <cached> Can we discuss about it?
[01:05] <Tm_T> sorry but I'm not familiar with the case
[01:05] <cached> who do i need to speak too?
[01:06] <cached> topyli: are you there?
[01:06] <Tm_T> he should be sleeping, and apparently is
[01:06] <cached> Then who can helpme?
[01:07] <cached> Last time I waited for someone to help I got kicked by topyli
[01:07] <cached> And I was just waiting on some help
[01:07] <cached> like 10 min ago
[01:08] <cached> I am pretty sure I have discussed this with someone and got my privs back
[01:09] <cached> then somereason I'm banned again after I havent logged in for a while
[01:48] <cached> hello?
[02:11] <cached> zzzz
[02:13] <genii> cached: The op responsible for your ban currently is not available to review. Please return later and try again.
[02:14] <cached> May I ask who the OP is?
[02:14] <genii> cached: topyli
[02:14] <cached> waaaaaaaat?
[02:15] <cached> alright, can I wait for him to show up?
[02:15] <cached> Or could you tell me a good time to check back?
[02:17] <genii> cached: Their timezone is now at 4:17am. So possibly soonest to try would be 5-6 hours but probably later than that
[02:18] <cached> ok thx for your help
[02:19] <genii> Ah I see now the original ban was for -ot by elky and that topyli marked the logs about -ops
[02:20]  * genii makes more coffee
[03:17] <genii> Gnite all
[03:17] <Flannel> night genii
[06:12] <jussi01> Morning all
[07:00] <cached> how can i apply for cloak plz
[07:01] <Flannel> cached: What sort of cloak?
[07:01] <cached> someone hacked my box changed my pw and disable my nic
[07:01] <cached> so my IP isnt broadcast
[07:01] <cached> because tor is banned
[07:02] <Flannel> cached: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
[07:02] <cached> Would you please direct me to the url?
[07:02] <cached> ty
[07:03] <cached> So can you turn it on for me?
[07:04] <Flannel> cached: That's #freenode and/or staffers, not this channel
[07:06] <cached> alright, thx again
[07:19] <jussi01> genii:I know you are asleep, but when you wake up, fyi, you are able to deal with anyones ban, unless so marked in th BT.
[07:22] <elky> jussi01, doesn't mean they're obliged to.
[07:23] <elky> and making people say "but i don't want to" to people is asking for conflicts
[07:24] <jussi01> elky: of course not. However his comment makes on thingk he was not aware of the current guideline.
[07:24] <jussi01> [04:15:55] <genii> cached: The op responsible for your ban currently is not available to review. Please return later and try again.
[07:25] <elky> jussi01, how would you prefer he had said that, without saying "but i don't want to"
[07:26] <jussi01> elky: Im not saying he cant say that, just making sure he is aware of that he is _able_ to do it.
[07:59] <dholbach> good morning
[08:45] <rww> Hola. folkkors is being offtopic and enter-ful in #ubuntu.
[08:45] <rww> ... and just left as I said that. Never mind :\
[11:35] <nikolam> why i still can not join #ubuntu
[11:35] <nikolam> explanation was that I said go away to the op. while i was talking only to him, to to others
[11:35] <nikolam> And now is another day and i still can not access #ubuntu
[11:36] <nikolam> one mistake goes to another but beside that, when my mistake was gone now and ops one needs to be corected.
[11:37] <nikolam> sorry for my english, btw
[11:38] <topyli> nikolam, your english is just fine
[11:38] <nikolam> thanks topyli
[11:38] <topyli> i'm not an operator on #ubuntu, and i did not follow your issue here closely at all, but i seem to remember that the issue was not completed
[11:39] <nikolam> well, only issue is i can not acces channel
[11:39] <nikolam> reasoning was only one word. after years of nicely coegsisting on ubuntu
[11:40] <nikolam> it needs to be fixed or problem is not at my side if it continues
[11:42] <nikolam> topyli, since you are only one that responded, do you think i should stay for a while on #ubuntu-ops or , after saying this, wait offline to be fixed (since this is op-only channel)
[11:44] <nikolam> ok, going away
[11:45] <TheSheep> It has to be resolved by the operator who set the ban, so I'd advise you to come back later and talk to mneptok. However, I'm sure that "it's your fault, now fix it" won't be accepted, you need to think what really happened.
[11:45] <bazhang> whoops
[11:45] <TheSheep> damn, took too long to juggle the words :/
[11:45] <topyli> damn, took too long reading the logs
[11:45] <topyli> TheSheep, btw, other ops can remove bans too
[11:45] <bazhang> he told mneptok to go away when asked to stop with the away message iirc
[11:46] <topyli> i'm now somewhat up to date with the original #ubuntu situation, studying -ops :)
[11:47] <TheSheep> basically he complains that he was "spammed"
[11:47] <bazhang> and he has two years of good karma
[11:48] <topyli> apparently we again spent a lot of energy here last night on a relatively simple matter :)
[11:49] <TheSheep> well, relatively good, he's always been a little rude, but I suppose it goes with age
[11:49] <topyli> i would support lifting the ban, even though it looks like nikolam doesn't quite understand there was a real reason for it
[11:50] <Tm_T> he refuses to listen, and as long as he refuses to sit down for a moment and listen...
[11:51] <TheSheep> Tm_T: that may go on for eternity
[11:51] <topyli> yeah he does need to be back once more and receive the advice instead of rejecting it
[11:51] <Tm_T> TheSheep: that's his choice
[11:52] <TheSheep> Tm_T: "choice" assumes knowledge about situation
[11:52] <Tm_T> TheSheep: ah, but if he refuses to listen when we try to tell the situation... the refusal is his choice, so the rest is too
[11:53] <Tm_T> I know this sounds harsh
[11:53] <bazhang> If he is unbanned without seeing how it was not spam, and he needs to follow the channel rules, then I feel that its not wise to unban at this point
[11:54] <TheSheep> I wish there was a different way of making people think than putting a wall in front of their face...
[11:54] <Tm_T> TheSheep: me too, I often try to find some friendly way to do things
[11:55] <Tm_T> but when they refuse to listen, there's not much one can do
[11:58] <bazhang> catalyzing is a superb strategy. it does take two to work things out though
[11:59] <Tm_T> indeed
[11:59] <Tm_T> who knows where bazhang would be now if he wasnt handled with care back then
[11:59] <bazhang> tried it tons of times with the guadalinex kids, all to no avail: they completely ignore my PMs
[11:59] <bazhang> Tm_T, very true :)
[12:00] <Tm_T> same might be with me too
[12:00] <Tm_T> first impression is nothing in IRC it seems
[12:05] <Tm_T> ...says the one with bad first impression
[12:05] <Tm_T> +s
[12:07] <topyli> oh, btw the guadalinex xchat defaults have now been fixed, launchpad told me so today :)
[12:07] <Tm_T> hooray
[12:07] <Tm_T> so as soon as they roll in the new package...
[12:08] <topyli> yeah, they said they'll push it in an update, we don't need to wait for a new distro version
[12:08] <Tm_T> ye
[12:08] <Tm_T> makes sense, it's just small patch in one package
[12:10] <topyli> yep
[13:08] <jussi01> o/
[14:12] <genii> jussi01: Ok, good to know.
[14:12]  * genii makes a pot of coffee
[14:31] <ikonia> is my connection being rubbish again or are we having a lot of netsplits ?
[14:32] <Tm_T> haven't seen any splits no
[14:32] <ikonia> Hmmm must be my connection
[14:37] <elky> I haven't seen you drop off either
[14:37] <elky> about 12hrs ago was the latest I see
[14:38] <ikonia> that's not good though
[14:38] <ikonia> should be rock solid
[14:38] <ikonia> speaking to ISP
[14:46]  * genii ponders the word "complete" in !ubuntu
[15:24] <ertugrul> hello
[15:24] <ertugrul> could i talk with a director of admins?
[15:24] <TheSheep> a what?
[15:25] <ertugrul> about Turkey channel admin _paco_
[15:25] <TheSheep> see /topic
[15:26] <ertugrul> he doesnt speak good with users
[15:26] <ertugrul> always bad, agrasivve verbs...
[15:26] <ertugrul> nearly 11 hours i am working with a trouble
[15:27] <ertugrul> with network manager
[15:37] <genii> ertugrul: #ubuntu-irc channel for issues you may have with operators of Ubuntu channels which are for support in specific language please
[18:53] <ubot3> In #ubuntu-us-wi, douglasawh-work said: ubot3: that is sweet
[18:55] <mneptok> ubot3: stop dispensing donuts
[18:55] <ubot3> mneptok: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[18:56] <mneptok> ubot3: Error: I am only a meatsack, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[18:56] <ubot3> mneptok: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[19:17] <nikolam> why I am still banned on #ubuntu
[19:17] <nikolam> is that some 24 hour thing or what
[19:17] <nikolam> itts not wuite right
[19:17] <nikolam> and it was terribly wrong
[19:18] <Myrtti> you hadn't finished discussing your situation on the channel
[19:18] <Myrtti> we do not remove bans automatically - you need do discuss them with us
[19:18] <nikolam> what situation
[19:19] <Myrtti> being banned.
[19:19] <nikolam> explanation was that i said Once: go away. After several people started sending me messages
[19:19] <nikolam> and it should be removed now
[19:19] <nikolam> You are not serious to get permanent ban for one word?
[19:20] <nikolam> What kind of meessed up thinking is that???
[19:20] <Myrtti> no ban is permanent. But we do not remove them automatically either.
[19:20] <maco> you're not banned permanently
[19:20] <mneptok> nikolam: you said "go away" to me twice. and to other people a few times.
[19:20] <maco> if it was permanent you wouldnt be being told "discuss it and we'll remove it"
[19:20] <nikolam> once only once
[19:20] <nikolam> and to you only
[19:21] <nikolam> and didnt know you are an op eather
[19:21] <nikolam> and now we 2 days explain ONE word to you
[19:21] <mneptok> nikolam: and that is not the big issue. the major issue is that people were informing you of the channel rules, and you completely dismissed them.
[19:21] <nikolam> you are So much important
[19:21] <nikolam> And I am on channel for 2 years or more
[19:21] <nikolam> and i was saying to all, I do not need patronising
[19:22] <nikolam> and they continued
[19:22] <maco> so you should know the rules by now
[19:22] <mneptok> then you sould know that using /nick instead of /away is against the channel policies.
[19:22] <Myrtti> I've been on the channel for 5 years or so. It still doesn't give me a pardon to do whatever I want there
[19:22] <nikolam> mneptok, that was new to me
[19:22] <nikolam> since i changed nick in first time in several months
[19:22] <nikolam> i banned for one word
[19:22] <mneptok> nikolam: and so why, when people were trying to educate you as to proper procedures, did you tell them to "go away" and accuse them of spamming you?
[19:23] <maco> my impression was that the ban was for your *attitude* not your words
[19:23] <nikolam> 1st thing I said to channel is taht BOT is sending annoying messages
[19:23] <nikolam> I never recieved in Life messages from bot
[19:23] <nikolam> I think banning is retribution for expressed thinking about bot
[19:24] <nikolam> First answer I recieved was : no, you are.
[19:24] <nikolam> So that is quite ok
[19:24] <nikolam> right?
[19:24] <mneptok> your thinking is flawed. you were banned for being dismissive, accusatory, and acting against the CoC and channel guidelines.
[19:25] <nikolam> I am after one day simly sick of this conversation, please remove ban because it was wrong to do so.
[19:25] <nikolam> mneptok, well I undersand you reasoning now
[19:25] <nikolam> why dont you remove such thing then Now
[19:25] <mneptok> if you see no problem with your actions, that is certainly your right. it is our right to keep the ban in place until you demonstrate that you understand that being informed of channel policy, be it by a bot or by humans, is not "spamming"
[19:25] <nikolam> Why?
[19:25] <nikolam> KEEP tha ban in place???????
[19:26] <nikolam> For what reason???
[19:26] <mneptok> and that reacting by accusing people trying to help you is not acceptable.
[19:26] <nikolam> mneptok, you are not right
[19:26] <nikolam> It was yesterday man
[19:26] <nikolam> and you are actively now abusing me.
[19:26] <nikolam> you keep ban for no reason now.
[19:27] <nikolam> If you had reason yesterday and you explained why
[19:27] <nikolam> why you are continuing with it
[19:27] <mneptok> i just told you why.
[19:27] <nikolam> why, because you think I think you are wrong
[19:27] <nikolam> I think you reacted over line
[19:28] <mneptok> you're certainly free to believe that.
[19:28] <nikolam> Most thing unapropriate here is your reaction
[19:28] <nikolam> to ONE word.
[19:28] <nikolam> its very much ashame what things have gone into
[19:28] <mneptok> 12:21 <+mneptok> nikolam: and that is not the big issue. the major issue is that people were informing you of the channel rules, and you completely dismissed them.
[19:28] <mneptok> not "one word"
[19:29] <nikolam> I did not tell that, you was telling that
[19:29] <mneptok> correct. i banned you. and i know why i did.
[19:29] <mneptok> it was not just for "go away"
[19:29] <nikolam> And WHY mneptok you Love to argue about this instead of resolvin issue?
[19:30] <nikolam> mneptok, well, when that ban, goes away?
[19:30] <nikolam> After what time?
[19:30] <mneptok> i'm trying to resolve it. i have told you why you were banned. and what you need to do to get the ban removed.
[19:30] <nikolam> What I need to do to get it removed?
[19:30] <mneptok> if you see no problem with your actions, that is certainly your right. it is our right to keep the ban in place until you demonstrate that you understand that being informed of channel policy, be it by a bot or by humans, is not "spamming"
[19:31] <mneptok> also, i'd like you to read the CoC and IRC guidelines and agree to abide by them
[19:31] <mneptok> !CoC
[19:31] <mneptok> !guidelines
[19:31] <nikolam> I understand that being informed is channel policy.
[19:31] <nikolam> Ok, satisfied?
[19:32] <mneptok> please read those and agree to abide by them.
[19:32] <mneptok> especially the thirds point in the IRC Guidelines
[19:32] <mneptok> *third
[19:33] <nikolam> Just to repeat. i was on #ubuntu for few Years now and never had even contact with an op.
[19:34] <nikolam> Ok, but what to do when multiple people start telling you things you already know
[19:34] <nikolam> and recieving dozen of messages at once
[19:36] <nikolam> I have read it. mneptok
[19:37] <nikolam> What now?
[19:38] <nikolam> (I also have long-living launchpad account from 2006/7 i think, with same text signed)
[19:38] <mneptok> you already knew that changing nicks for /away was against the Guidelines?
[19:38] <nikolam> i did not know that
[19:38] <nikolam> that was very much new to me
[19:38] <mneptok> then people were telling you about a policy you did NOT know about.
[19:38] <mneptok> i certainly was.
[19:39] <nikolam> its relatively new policy?
[19:39] <mneptok> no.
[19:39] <mneptok> that has been a policy for years
[19:39] <nikolam> well that is because i almost never was changing names..
[19:40] <nikolam> and i think i do not remember when i was actually changing it last time but yesterday
[19:40] <mneptok> and that's fine. and when people tell you the policy, dismissing them and telling them to "go away" is not considerate, and is not respectful.
[19:41] <mneptok> do you think it's considerate or respectful to talk to people as you did yesterday?
[19:41] <nikolam> Ok, mneptok will we stop this conversation now resolved, it ha been very much hard for me to talk all this about this issue. uhh.
[19:41] <nikolam> No it was not
[19:41] <mneptok> that's very good to hear.
[19:41] <nikolam> it was not to tell them that
[19:42] <mneptok> now, you say you have signed the Code Of Conduct via Launchpad.
[19:42] <mneptok> please read the first 2 items in the Code Of Conduct
[19:42] <mneptok> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
[19:42] <mneptok> now do you understand why you were banned?
[19:43] <nikolam> yes I understand. And I understand someone could just point it to me briefly. And I would not react so defensively.
[19:44] <nikolam> I also think, beside that I understand reasons, that banning was overreacting.
[19:45] <nikolam> I very much see myself as productive and always there for help
[19:45] <nikolam> We have our Loco where we solve newcomers questions and problems every day
[19:45] <mneptok> i have removed the ban
[19:45] <nikolam> And I am almost all day at my loco
[19:45] <nikolam> thanks mneptok
[19:45] <mneptok> thank you for reading those pages, and thank you for thinking carefully about what was the real cause of the issue.
[19:46] <nikolam> And we just are trying to make somethink of it locally
[19:46] <mneptok> are you near Belgrade?
[19:46] <nikolam> And I am even on ubuntu channel for say, historical reasons anyway
[19:46] <nikolam> yes I am
[19:47] <mneptok> there is an active group there
[19:47] <mneptok> as well as a Canonical employee
[19:48] <nikolam> I know i am almost from start there
[19:48] <nikolam> there were some activities last year too
[19:48] <nikolam> some companies use ubuntu in their intranet exclusively, etc etc
[19:49] <nikolam> But I thing one thing maybe is missing is Wider pressure to the market
[19:49] <mneptok> good good.
[19:49] <mneptok> we should not discuss that for too long on this channel.
[19:49] <nikolam> Since sending cds is good thing.. for those who know about that
[19:49] <mneptok> is there anything else you need from us?
[19:49] <mneptok> try joining #ubuntu to make sure the ban is lifted, please
[19:50] <nikolam> well, people come to chat. Ok, will try it.
[19:50] <nikolam> think it works. And mo too much bot messages, i hope ;)
[19:51] <mneptok> OK, good to know
[19:51] <nikolam> ok, will part now from ops
[19:51] <mneptok> we have a no-idle policy in -ops, so if you do not need anything else, we ask people to leave
[19:51] <nikolam> bye
[19:51] <mneptok> Живео!
[19:51] <nikolam> cu
[19:51] <maco> dobrodoshli?
[19:51] <nikolam> :)
[19:51] <maco> whats that?
[19:51] <nikolam> its serbian for welcome :)
[19:52] <nikolam> bye
[19:52] <maco> ah
[19:52] <mneptok> "cheers" "to your health" etc etc
[19:53] <mneptok> OK, shower time.
[19:53]  * mneptok smells of pickles and the grave
[19:53] <maco> i'll have to remember that word
[19:53] <maco> i just know "zdrave. kako si ti?"
[19:54] <maco> oh and "bijelo dugme" and "divlje jagode" ;-)
[19:54] <maco> but yeah typing in latin letters cuz i learned from a bosnian and ive forgotten how to touchtype in cyrillic
[21:59] <rww> Hola op people. Could someone with #ubuntu+1 access take a look at the scrollback for the last few minutes and change the topic if appropriate, please? Apparently Lucid's going through some happy fun gnome dependency breakage right now.
[22:42] <jpds> rww: Woo, awesome.
[22:42] <jpds> rww: Do you have a bug # for it?
[22:44] <rww> jpds: Nope. yofel in #ubuntu+1 was the one who mentioned it, you might want to ask them.
[23:00] <Tm_T> yummy, coffee and cola drink mixed
[23:03] <jrib> eww, coffee. eww, cola
[23:04] <jrib> .