=== joerg is now known as Guest82406 [15:05] hi [15:05] I recently set up hP 5145 thin clients with a 8.04 LTS edubuntu server [15:06] however the LCD screens are 1366x788 widescreen [15:06] however the thin client is not able to pick up the right resolution even when the X_Mode_0 setting in the lts.conf is set to 1366x768 [15:07] any idea on how to get the thin client to come up with the right resolution ? [15:08] mssms: do you know what display driver it is using? [15:12] how do I find out ? [15:16] and I thought the new widescreens would be better for the kids :-) [15:18] looks like folks are busy ... gotta go now ... will be back in a couple of hours to bug folks here :-) [16:50] * bencrisford has finally got his pgp working under lucid... [17:13] argh, bug 536975 is driving me insane [17:13] Launchpad bug 536975 in qcad "Qcad menu entry lacks a category in lucid 10.04" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/536975 [17:14] i can fiddle around in qcad.desktop make sure its ok with desktop-file-validate, spend ages running dpkg, to find it wont work :'( [18:21] Is there any work on developing Edubuntu curriculum ? [18:21] JackLD: what do you mean exactly? [18:22] Well, I've helped set up a couple of computer labs, Edubuntu based. And after everyone gets used to the system, then they want to use it in a guided manner. [18:22] Nairobi [18:23] JackLD: well edubuntu itself doesnt actually "teach" it just provides a platform for running educational software more successfully [18:24] i have to go, ill be back soon [18:24] sorry :/ [18:26] That's right. It doesn't teach itself. But, is there any curriculum that is based on an Edubuntu framework ? [18:44] JackLD: back, sorry about that [18:44] im not sure.. [18:45] by curriculum you mean like courses for different subjects? [18:49] Something like this? http://www.linux-for-education.org/ [18:56] alkisg: isnt that just tutorials for using edu-distros? [18:56] bencrisford: not sure, I haven't read through them [18:57] nubae has speaking highly of that site.. [18:57] alkisg: it seems to be teaching about using edubuntu, and its opensuse conterpart and others [18:57] i understood JackLD as wanting a curriculum for learning all sorts of different subjects [18:58] i might have interpreted wrong though :P [18:58] i do that alot... [19:16] Sorry, stepped away and didn't say anything. my bad. [19:17] I looked at LinuxForEducation, but the need is for kids who are low on education. [19:17] Can you give an example of what you're looking for? [19:17] Isn't there school curriculum (of some sort) that is coordinated with Edubuntu ? [19:17] K-12 [19:18] I don't know of any curriculum associated with any OS [19:19] I only know of specific courses... [19:19] Yeah. I'm not sure I'm asking the right question. Here's the problem: I build a computer lab, but there isn't any tasks for the kids to accomplish. [19:20] It's like the computer lab is an "educational" entertainment center. [19:20] is this an official school? [19:20] Usually the teachers decide for the tasks to teach [19:20] alkisg: to a certain extent [19:20] there is a national curriculum [19:20] right, I don't know the word to express that. [19:20] ^^^ that one, thanks [19:21] so the government decides that kids need to be educated on, say.. convection currents in their science class, so the school teaches it [19:21] No. It's a children's residence (100 kids, aids orphans) [19:21] JackLD: so there will be no teachers around? [19:21] JackLD: you can try http://frogandowl.org - #frogandowl [19:21] Adult supervision is about it. [19:21] JackLD: imo, i think it would be pretty great if there was a curriculum to go with edubuntu [19:22] but there isnt currently one [19:22] what would be good is if included in the documentation was tasks [19:22] you guys should join up with frog and owl - sbalneav is part of it too, we're trying to rally more people behind the initiative [19:22] Doesn't that seem odd ? [19:23] I'm looking at Frog and Owl, why do you think it's worth the effort ? [19:23] Oh, it's pretty raw. Nothing much in it. [19:24] JackLD: it's a fairly new project. you have to start somewhere =) [19:24] Lns: looks pretty neat [19:24] it's worth the effort if you want to help shape the project! [19:24] you're obviously interested in helping children get quality education [19:24] Agreed. I just want to know a little more. You know what, I'll contact them and see what they say. [19:24] hop onto #frogandowl [19:25] heh, no pun intended [19:25] Well, I think the real impact of FOSS is going to come from FOSS curriculum. [19:25] hop. I get it. [19:25] JackLD: in scenarios like yours, it definately will be [19:25] not everyone can afford to spend lots of money on tools like expensive education software, when there are more important things to pay for [19:26] Agreed. Thanks ! Oops. I have to go. Thanks [19:26] The thing is, teachers come up with curriculum on their own most of the time. There just needs to be a facility to share them. It would be so easy to get something going. You just need supporters [19:26] It doesn't have to cost money [19:27] Lns: well, thats the thing, teachers dont have to, the curriculum is done by the government, well the teachers choose how to teach it i guess [19:27] to an extent, yes [19:27] i think national curriculums are bad :/ [19:27] they are needed for exams obviously [19:27] bencrisford: teachers agree i'm sure [19:27] but how much do the people who make them up actually know about learning [19:28] they just want to come up with neat, pointless ideas so they get their christmas bonus [19:28] how much do the F/OSS programmers actually know about coding? ;) [19:28] meh [19:28] you're generalizing all teachers [19:28] im not criticizing teachers! [19:28] teachers are awesome :P [19:28] with a shared system you can find quality stuff because the more people look/add/modify it, the better it becomes [19:29] i am generalizing the curriculum writers though [19:29] give me an example of a curriculum [19:29] straight from the writer/creator [19:29] well the government makes the national curriculum [19:29] which dictates everything students have to study [19:29] in each age group [19:30] ok [19:30] so it gives generalized subjects they must learn about [19:30] so the nc for science in the uk at gcse (high school) level, will say students must learn about products from oil [19:31] well, it isnt the government at gcse i dont think, its the exam boards, but its approved by the government and the exam boards are closely linked to the government..? [19:31] its complicated :P [19:31] Tell me more =) [19:31] I need to learn about this stuff hehe [19:32] i just know what ive picked up from my mum, who teaches... [19:32] and from my teachers... [19:32] but the teachers are given guidelines for what they need to teach [19:32] thats the idea behind it [19:32] and then if they teach all the stuff, the kids do good in the exams [19:32] if they dont, then the kids dont do well, and they get the sack :) [19:33] the system seems to be thought out well [19:33] and it should work well [19:33] but what seems to happen is we only get taught stuff that comes up in exams [19:33] well what you're saying is extremely generalized [19:33] it leaves a lot of room for creativity [19:33] which spoils the point [19:33] right [19:33] Lns: yes, it does [19:33] that's the clincher...memorizing dates, names, key points...stuff that isn't easy to remember for most I'd guess [19:33] but if you have an exam and a few months to learn all the stuff.. then you cant afford to do stuff that isnt in the exam [19:35] and in subjects like science, it leaves so many areas unexplored [19:36] bencrisford: yeah... are private schools tied to these curriculums too? [19:36] Lns: yes, well at a higher level anyway [19:37] in sort of primary (elementary) school, it is less strict i imagine [19:37] interesting [19:37] you have no (at least fewer) exams to prepare for [19:38] i think its quite narrow in maths, because when you move on to middle/high school you need a basic understanding of many topics [19:38] also in science and english [19:38] so it would basically take an act of god/nature to change the requirements of national exams/tests, standards, etc... [19:38] Lns: erm, curriculums do change [19:39] i think [19:39] but when I was going through school there were only a few "state exams" we had to do iirc [19:39] Lns: more like an act of congress/parlament [19:39] mhall119: same thing ;) [19:39] mhall119: not even sure it gets to parliament, just to the education minister probably [19:39] or whatever the equivelent is for your country [19:40] in south africa there are many schools who refuse to move to linux because a lot of their curriculum-aligned windows software won't run on it [19:40] in my country, Congress can legislate almost anything they want [19:40] mhall119: and they do! :p [19:40] mhall119: parliament could change the curriculum, but the curriculum doesnt need to be changed by pariliament :) [19:40] like all labaradors are dogs, but not all dogs are labaradors [19:40] kind of anyway :P [19:41] I don't get it [19:41] are you saying they're dogs? [19:41] highvoltage: same in the U.S. basically [19:41] if pariliament wanted to change something like that, they could, but it doesnt have to be them that changes it [19:41] it could be the education ministry [19:41] ok [19:41] i think it works that way [19:41] I get that [19:41] but the whole laborador thing threw me off [19:41] the labarador thing is something we use in the uk :P [19:41] like an analogy [19:41] ah [19:42] we use cats and lions [19:42] in the USA [19:42] :P [19:42] highvoltage: basically a tie between the educational software makers' capitalistic ideals/motives and the governments/interests that they lobby for [19:42] we also abuse the words "biscuit" and "jam" [19:42] mhall119: where are you from in the U.S. ?? haha [19:42] Lns: Florida [19:42] the parts of it that are technically "in the south" [19:43] mhall119: chalk and cheese is another of our favourites [19:43] where we do eat biscuits and jam, and drink tea [19:43] much different than out in california [19:43] Lns: much [19:43] L.A. was so foreign to me [19:44] tea? on films you always wind us up about us drinking too much tea... [19:44] bencrisford: iced tea [19:44] without milk [19:44] mhall119: oh :P i have had that abroad [19:44] but i have never seen it in the uk [19:44] because that's just an affront against nature [19:44] mhall119: L.A. is foreign to everyone outside of L.A. ;) [19:45] well i know it exists [19:45] Lns: fair enough [19:45] but i dont know where to get it [19:45] it's just the only part of California I've been in [19:45] bencrisford: you can make iced tea, you know [19:45] iced tea is very popular out here [19:45] mhall119: is it just cold tea? [19:45] bencrisford: not exactly, no [19:45] oh :/ :P [19:46] i dont really drink tea [19:46] first you brew some really strong tea, then if you're really southern (I'm not) you mix in sugar [19:46] but apart from that i fit the british stereotype [19:46] it's cold tea with lots of sugar! [19:46] then you dilute it in cold water and serve over ice [19:46] or high fructose corn syrup ;) [19:46] mhall119: cool [19:47] I was born in south Florida, which isn't really "southern", and was raised on unsweet iced tea [19:47] ill try making some tommorrow [19:47] just don't put milk in it [19:47] im on the coffee now, cos i dont want to fall asleep on my keyboard before the meeting [19:47] yeah, I've become addicted to coffee too [19:48] ahh, coffee. The accepted addiction ;) [19:48] but iced tea is still my casual drink of choice [19:48] mhall119: i drink my coffee far too strong now.. i started out on coffee very weak [19:48] then i had it a bit stronger cos there wasnt much milk [19:48] Lns: there was a movement to ban coffee, but it's proponents got too tired by mid-morning [19:48] the next time i made a weak one i just couldnt taste it [19:48] mhall119: haha [19:48] mhall119: hahahaha [19:48] cuban coffee is really really good [19:49] it's so crazy out here, starbucks on literally every corner, sometimes 2 in a small shopping center [19:49] as strong as espresso, but slighly sweet [19:49] i went through an espresso phaze, and now im hooked on strong black coffee [19:49] Lns: that's not just California [19:49] espresso and sugar just dont mix for me [19:49] cuban coffee has a caramel sweetness, not sugary [19:49] I try to limit myself to coffee about 2-3 times a week [19:49] someone told me it was like coffee-syrup, so i tried... but it was just.. not nice [19:49] i'm extremely sensitive to caffeine [19:49] it's about as thick and smooth as hot chocolate [19:50] it doest affect me too much [19:50] Lns: I do that too [19:50] only s/week/day/ [19:50] keeps me awake, but dont do anything else [19:50] hehe [19:50] Edubuntu meeting in 10 minutes [19:50] * Lns sounds the sirens [19:50] I had to stop drinking coffee after lunch time though, so I could sleep through the night [19:50] i have a strong, black one to wake me up, but by the time im home is too late or i wont sleep [19:50] ever try switching from coffee to tea? [19:50] yes [19:51] it worked well for me for a while [19:51] by accident [19:51] i just felt like a cup of tea [19:51] i cant explain it.. [19:51] =p [19:51] prolly cos i was so cold [19:51] was very snowy [19:51] and for about a week i was having 5 cups a day [19:51] then i realised that coffee was stronger and controlled my caffeine addiction with less cups [19:51] you know what makes tea really good? [19:52] coffee [19:52] coffee? [19:52] lol [19:52] haha i cant say ive ever tried mixing them [19:52] I actually put finely ground coffee in my BBQ rub, it's really tasty [19:52] hahahah [19:52] i put coffee grounds on my TOOTHBRUSH! [19:53] I use the toothbrush to remove them [19:53] just kidding. maybe. [19:53] Lns: hahahaha [19:53] toothpaste and coffee actually mix... [19:53] i normally drink my coffee after brushing my teeth [19:53] and i quite like the "hint of mint" that comes with it [19:53] irish creme will do that too [19:54] 186 people in ubuntu-meeting.. something tells me there not all there for our session :P [19:55] most of us stay there 24/7 [19:55] well i only attend edubuntu ones [19:55] i used to attend others, when i was really active [19:56] I'm just lazy and never /part [19:56] meeting in 5 minutes #ubuntu-meeting [19:56] now I've got to go buy a soda, all this talk of caffinated beverages [19:57] get some red bull [19:57] :P [19:57] hell no [19:58] lol [19:58] i hate the feeling you get when you're caffeine levels suddenly deteriorate and you realise how tired you are [19:59] Edubuntu meeting starting in about one minute [20:00] highvoltage: :) [21:10] anyway, I know all this information probably exists somewhere, but not all in the same place [21:10] oops, I meant to be there, but I forgot I'm in a different time zone than usual [21:10] HedgeMage: we can send you minutes/log :) [21:11] highvoltage: is there any way to programatically add pages to the wiki? [21:11] hi HedgeMage =) [21:11] without simulating http request/response thatis [21:11] i mentioned frog and owl earlier to everyone here [21:13] mhall119: short answer: yes [21:13] long answer? [21:13] mhall119: few letters longer answer: I haven't done it yet and I'm not exactly sure, but I know it can be done [21:14] mhall119: at the very least you could creat pages by doing the http posts directly [21:14] do you know how it would be done? [21:15] bitbucket.org lets you manage your wiki as an hg repository, thatn's extremely helpful [21:15] mhall119: I might come up with something way to elaborate and unecessary, perhaps someone in #ubuntu-doc would know if there's alreeady a script for that [21:15] hi, Lns [21:15] mhall119: if not, let me know and I'll also look into it [21:15] HedgeMage: howdy! [21:16] bencrisford: if there are minutes lying around it'd be nice [21:16] highvoltage: hey there [21:16] highvoltage: if not, I'll just generate the markup and upload them by hand [21:16] not such a big teal [21:16] deal [21:16] HedgeMage: i have the raw logs [21:16] i could turn them into minutes [21:16] but if I could bzr branch the edubuntu wiki, add files and bzr push it back up, that would be sweet [21:16] HedgeMage: I sent some notes to the list as well, not sure if you're currently subscribed [21:17] (the edubuntu-devel list, that is) [21:17] highvoltage, stgraber: akgraner said she'd do an interview with someone about edubuntu [21:17] highvoltage: Web site update: theme is starting to look good, remaining forum work is dependent on getting that email account set up for it (though I may give up and throw one on my server in the mean time -- it's just a pain to move from one to the other) [21:17] highvoltage: not currently subscribed, but I'll check the archives, thanks [21:18] HedgeMage: would be nice if you could put it on your server for now [21:18] highvoltage: how does one go about hosting a bug day? should i talk to bdmurray? [21:18] Will do [21:18] HedgeMage: kubuntu got their logo today, so ours is probably close [21:18] highvoltage: Figures...I'll finish this then it'll arrive ;P [21:19] HedgeMage: I have some ideas for colors and some css that you could apply based on the current edubuntu artwork that has been coming together in a kind of ad-hoc way [21:19] HedgeMage: :) [21:19] HedgeMage: "this?" where can we see? [21:20] highvoltage: give me a minute to check on LF then I'll upload when I'm back at the computer -- still need to finish block and menu styling, but page layout and header are done, as well as the back-end code for Fusion/Skinr compatibility (which I'll explain when I'm back) [21:21] HedgeMage: ok great! thanks! [21:22] highvoltage: where do i start for organising a bug day? [21:26] highvoltage: I'm back. While that uploads (slowly...I'm travelling and the bandwidth is so-so) I'll explain the Fusion/Skinr thing. [21:27] highvoltage: One of my key concerns in putting together the new edubuntu.org is maintainability. Volunteer turnover and available volunteer time are huge issues for a smallish project whose main focus isn't the web site. [21:29] highvoltage: In addition to choosing modules that are well maintained and supported, with clean upgrade paths between versions, automating some maintenance tasks that don't really require human attention, etc. I've spent time on making sure that someone without my expertise can help keep the site looking fresh and up-to-date: [21:31] highvoltage: This includes WYSIWYG editing, pathauto to handle alias creation, some menu system improvements, the forum/ML integration, and Fusion/Skinr, a combination which allows some prepared theming things to be handled in a point-and-click fashion from the Drupal UI... [21:33] highvoltage: So, if you need a feature block on the front page when I'm not around, you (as back-up administrator) could click-and-drag it off the list to the "above content" region, then hit it's config, set it to 40% the width of the content area, and apply one of a number of pre-written styles to it to draw the reader's eye, all without ever typing any code. [21:36] highvoltage: It takes longer to code on the front-end, but is much more maintainable in the long run, I think. :) [21:36] HedgeMage: ok, I'm glad that you're thinking of this, we'll sort out that at least 2 people will have filesystem-level access (I think we may have already even, I'll check up) [21:36] HedgeMage: I think we already have a bunch of admin users, but it could be much better co-ordinated [21:36] * HedgeMage nods [21:37] HedgeMage: how is your schedule for the next two weeks? will you still be traveling? [21:38] highvoltage: I get home this weekend, then I'm home until the 17th, then I'm at DrupalCon in SF until the following Friday, then I'm home again. [21:38] bencrisford: I would say that the first steps is, plan what we're going to do (even if it's just 2-3 bullet points) and then announce it to the list(s), blog about it, etc [21:39] highvoltage: ok sounds good [21:39] it would get so much more publicity if you or another one of the members amongst us posted it to planet [21:39] HedgeMage: ok, I think we should perhaps set a few hours aside at some point where we get the web-team together and put some plans down in terms of maintainability [21:40] bencrisford: I'll certainly do it! just tell me what I should write, or if you blog about it first I could just link to you [21:40] highvoltage: ok :), ill see what i can do tonight, because i have tonight and tommorrow morning, then im busy till sunday [21:40] and after wednesday next week im gone till the following monday [21:42] highvoltage: That sounds like a plan, though I'd rather not schedule it while I'm on the road -- things can be unpredictable :) [21:42] * bencrisford just set up email on his phone, and has found its quite annoying when ever few seconds its ding-ing [21:42] lol bencrisford [21:42] i blame bugmail [21:42] HedgeMage: *nod* at least it's not release-critical, and we have until the 29th of April until release [21:42] :P [21:43] HedgeMage: would still be ideal to have the site up by the release [21:44] highvoltage: np -- we could do something next week, any night except Tuesday or Thursday, or during the business day if we can keep it under an hour. [21:44] (I'm EDT when at home, for reference) [21:44] HedgeMage: ok [21:44] ok, I'm about 2-3 hours ahead of EDT most of the time [21:45] highvoltage: who else is involved with the webstuff besides you and I and vikram? [21:46] HedgeMage: I haven't been involved in ages, officially it was Philip's baby... but since he actually had a real life baby he couldn't spend any time on it [21:46] HedgeMage: let me get the access list... [21:47] "4 years 2 weeks" [21:47] wow, that is an old drupal site : [21:47] :) [21:48] highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Organizing - where would i be without the wiki :P [21:49] heh [21:49] HedgeMage: hmm, looking at the list itt's basically just myself and stgraber that's really still involved, we'll do some rebooting of the team when we set some time for the site stuff [21:49] ok [21:49] bencrisford: great! [21:49] bencrisford: yes I forgot about that [21:50] highvoltage: so i email edubuntu-devel, edubuntu-bugs and then have a chat via email/irc with the ubuntu bugsquashers and see if we cant organise some collaboration? [21:50] then ill work on spreading the word, blogging, etc :) [21:51] because the bugs that affect the edubuntu packages also affect the same packages if used in ubuntu, so they're their bugs as well [21:53] bencrisford: yep! [21:53] okey dokey :) [21:54] highvoltage: what are we going to do about the advocacy team.. there are 31 applications dating back as far as 2006 and as recent as 2010... [21:55] bencrisford: what we've done in other similar teams is reject all of them with an explanation and also inviting them to re-apply if they're still interested [21:55] highvoltage: ok [21:56] once lucid is released and things are a little less hectic, could we set up a ppa for the team [21:56] for sharing/uploading marketing material [21:56] Current web demo now up @ http://edubuntu.frogandowl.org/ [21:56] bencrisford: well, ppa's are for packages specifically [21:56] bencrisford: but we could set up a bzr branch for that in LP [21:57] highvoltage: i guess thats what i meant by ppa, i dont know why i say half the things i say somethimes :/ [21:57] JackLD: hi [21:57] hey, back at ya [21:57] HedgeMage: that looks awesome :) [21:57] HedgeMage: nice! are you going to populate the database today as well! [21:58] oops, meant a question mark there [21:58] JackLD: so, i have been thinking a little about what you were saying before [21:58] highvoltage: It depends on how sleepy I am tonight...this is LF's spring break trip, and he has me hopping! [21:58] highvoltage: I will endeavor to do so, but no promises. [21:59] OK, I was thinking I needed to write up a case study [21:59] HedgeMage: that's good enought for me :) [21:59] highvoltage: Speaking of which, I have to get going -- certain burgers were promised to certain munchkins ;) [21:59] highvoltage: see you later! [21:59] HedgeMage: I'll never stand between anyone and burgers, have fun! [21:59] hehe, thanks :) [22:00] HedgeMage: before you go... if you have 10 seconds... [22:00] JackLD: well, it would be a nice thing to have, but in edubuntu there are roughly 30-50 packages, so to write excersizes/lessons that are going to keep kids occupied for long for every package.. [22:00] it would take alot of work [22:00] HedgeMage: Lady Gaga says in her new music video "You know what they say, once you kill a cow, you gotta make a burger", I found it quite amusing :) [22:01] It would take work - - but I have an example. My computer lab was so successful at the orphanage, that the equipment . . [22:02] was replaced with laptop. The original equipment (PIII Dell Optiplexs with 384 M of RAM) were repurposed to a village, about 4 hours away. A village with no electricity. They run a generator to get the workstations up and running. [22:03] But there is no way that we can get someone savvy in all the things that can be accomplished on Edubuntu. So, the kids sort of pick and choose their way around. [22:04] JackLD: keep following frog and owl, its a shame i cant think of anything to suggest that you can use straight away though, because it sounds like you're doing great work down there [22:05] JackLD: all i can suggest is setting the kids tasks when they're on the computers [22:05] Well I'm in DC. I want to go back this summer. I'll look harder at Frog and Owl. Thanks. [22:05] if they're all doing the same thing you can help them easier and they can help each other [22:05] tuxtype would support that quite easily [22:05] so tell them to do a certain game with a certain word list [22:06] Tuxtype is great. But, after a week of it, then what ? I don't want to just do busy work. [22:06] JackLD: i understand, it would be so much easier if something existed that could help you [22:06] but im not sure it currently does [22:07] Thanks Ben, much appreciated. I'm going to head out. ltr [22:08] highvoltage: its when someone comes on and tells you they've been using edubuntu to educate aids orphans when you really remember why you do this stuff :) [22:10] bencrisford: yeah, that's the kind of thing you never get tired of hearing :) [22:16] highvoltage: are we going with next tuesday for the bug day? [22:17] bencrisford: yep, that sounds good [22:21] http://www.freetech4teachers.com/ - might be useful information here [22:22] Lns: Is that for JackLD? [22:23] for anyone [22:25] oh ok [22:32] I'm off to sleep, goodnight everyone [22:37] Lns: http://pastebin.com/npvNQnju - how does that look as an email to send out to bugsquad and edubuntu-devel? [22:37] i wanted to be as polite to bugs as i could without begging :p [22:39] Sounds good to me =) [22:39] ok, i wanted to check with someone important first :) [22:39] i feel confident enough to hit send now [22:39] thanks [22:39] :P [22:40] lol [22:40] I'm not very important here [22:40] I'm mostly just a cheerleader [22:41]