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* jcastro taps on the mike20:58
jcastro2 minutes!20:58
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=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Current Session: Adopt an Upstream - Instructor: jcastro || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
jcastrook, I'll give it a few more minutes for the last minute stragglers21:01
jcastrowave if you plan on participating in this class please!21:01
jcastrook let's get started21:04
jcastrothis session is Adopt an Upstream/Package21:05
jcastroI'm Jorge Castro21:05
jcastroby day I work at Canonical on the Ubuntu community team21:05
jcastroby night I fight crime. ( Just kidding )21:05
jcastroThis session is going to be for people who are interested in strengthening our relationship with upstream projects by means of doing bug work21:05
jcastroSo let's start off with the basics, what exactly is an "upstream"21:06
jcastroif you think about it like a river it makes sense21:06
jcastrothere are projects out there like GNOME, KDE, Firefox, gwibber, openoffice, etc. that are independent software projects21:06
jcastrowhat a distribution does is put all those together, add some polish, and ship it as an os that we call "Ubuntu"21:07
jcastroso, these projects are what we call upstreams21:07
jcastrofor many of these we derive the packaging from Debian, so in a way Debian is also an upstream to us.21:07
jcastroand for derivatives that build off of ubuntu, they're downstream from us, and we're their upstream21:08
jcastroso it's like a big river21:08
jcastrosometimes these relationships get complicated, so for most users they might not understand where the software comes from21:08
jcastroso when we get bugs they might not be something Ubuntu can fix21:08
jcastrobut since we distribute this software, it's our responsibility to make sure that user bugs and things are reported, especially if those bugs contain a patch.21:09
jcastroFor major projects we have instructions on how to "forward" these bug reports.21:09
jcastrohowever, we have lots of users21:10
jcastroand upstreams usually have finite resources21:10
jcastroso what we need in abundance are people who are skilled enough to filter out the bad bugs, and ensure that upstreams are getting the high quality bug reports.21:10
jcastroWe purposely don't do anything like automatically forwarding bugs, because that would get out of control quickl;y21:11
jcastrowe need an actual human being to check each bug report and make sure it doesn't suck before considering forwarding it upstream21:11
jcastroso, we created a program for people to be able to say "I want to do this!"21:11
jcastroso we created Adopt a Package21:11
jcastroThis is basically when someone says "I care about this program, and I want to help fix it."21:12
jcastroSo on this page we list programs that could use the help21:12
jcastroLet me show you an example of one.21:12
jcastrothis is a program that has been getting love lately21:12
jcastroand yet there are still 61 bugs in the "new" state21:13
jcastrothat means there are 61 opportunities to either confirm a bug, mark it a duplicate, or maybe it's not a bug at all21:13
jcastronow if we look at this graph21:13
jcastrowe can see that the amount of triaged bugs is going up21:14
jcastrobut we can probably do a better job taking care of the "new" bugs.21:14
jcastroSo as you can see here this is a package that people have started to take care.21:14
jcastroSo really, what's required to "adopt" a package21:14
jcastroWell, the one fundamental thing you really need is to care about it21:15
jcastroI usually tell people to pick a program they're passionate about21:15
jcastrobe it your pet mp3 player or something else21:15
jcastrothen really you can just dive in the open bug reports.21:15
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jcastromany of these are low hanging fruit21:15
jcastrofor example as we get towards beta many people will start reporting bugs21:15
jcastrobut might not have enough information to be useful21:15
jcastroso just by asking people to use apport or to add more detail in the bug report can be useful.21:16
jcastroRemember that the more information we can have in a bug, the better21:16
jcastroso if we can have people just adding more information that can save time later on when a developer is trying to solve the problem21:16
jcastroalso, as we get later in the betas people tend to report more duplicates21:17
jcastroone can spend days just marking duplicates, so that is something you can do.21:17
jcastrowhen you get a good quality bug report and it's been triaged21:17
jcastrosometimes a developer will mention that it's probably a bug in the upstream software21:18
jcastrobut they might not link it to the upstream bug report21:18
jcastroanother possible place to help bugs is when they have patches attached21:18
jcastroon any person, project, or package in launchpad you can add a +patches to the URL21:18
jcastroand it will show you any patches that people might have attached to a bug.21:19
jcastromany packages have tons of old patches that might be sitting there throughout the years or months21:19
jcastroso keeping an eye on the +patches for a package is something that can be done21:19
jcastrosometimes it might be old or doesn't apply21:19
jcastroor sometimes it just needs some testing21:20
jcastroand in some cases asking the person to push the patch upstream can be helpful21:20
jcastroremember that while it's nice to fix it in ubuntu it needs to go back to the original project!21:20
jcastrothis is a good idea for a number of reasons21:20
jcastroa) It's just the right thing to do to help improve their software21:20
jcastrob) Less maintenance and delta from upstream is always a good thing21:20
jcastroc) Sending it upstream fixes it for everyone long term instead of for one release of ubuntu21:21
jcastroAny questions so far?21:21
jcastroqense: anything to add?21:21
jcastroone thing I like to do, when watching the +patches view21:22
jcastrois taking note of that "age" column21:22
jcastroif someone has taken the time to write a patch for something21:22
jcastroand it's been sitting there for months and no one has responded, then that's pretty rude!21:22
jcastroso I usually try to remind a maintainer if a patch has been rotting in lp21:22
jcastromany maintainers have tons of things to do21:23
jcastroso if someone does that filtering for them that gets the important things filtered from the chaff, then that's more time they can spend to help make ubuntu better,21:24
jcastroany questions so far? That's basically it21:24
jcastroas always, feel free to ask someone in #ubuntu-bugs if you have questions on how to be a better adopter21:25
jcastroand thanks for your time!21:26
charlie-tcaQuestion: does this apply only to packages in main?21:28
leftyfboh, I thought the questions were asked in the other room21:28
leftyfbI don't think this went well21:29
jcastroah sorry21:29
jcastrolet's start over with the questions21:29
charlie-tcathey were21:29
jcastroleftyfb | who do we get to push patches and how?21:29
jcastroso usually this might be a maintainer21:29
jcastrobut it can also be a team21:30
jcastroso for example, let's say you're looking at patches in gqibber21:30
jcastroer, gwibber21:30
jcastroso in this case I would ping the maintainer, ken-vandine21:30
jcastrobut, we know that gwibber is on the desktop by default now21:31
jcastroso we can probably poke the team21:31
jcastroso let's say ken get's hit by a bus and doesn't respond21:31
jcastro(poor ken)21:31
jcastroin that case we could ping someone on the ubuntu desktop team, by either using their mailing list or irc channel21:31
jcastrocharlie-tca | QUESTION: are we only applying this to packages in main?21:31
jcastrothis actually applies to everything in the archive21:31
jcastroin fact, it's those odd packages in universe that not many people use that usually need the most help!21:32
jcastrothis happens to me sometimes21:32
jcastroI'll meet someone and they'll say "no one cares about my cli mp3 player written in lisp!"21:32
jcastrobut when you show people how to forward bugs to the right place they usually figure it  out21:33
jcastroactually, now that you asked that it brings up another possible place to collaborate, debian.21:33
jcastrowhen you push a patch upstream this benefits debian as well21:33
jcastrohowever with certain fixes21:33
jcastrolike packaging fixes, it makes sense to ensure that that fix gets to debian21:34
jcastroin fact you'll see many sponsors ask if the patch has been sent to debian as part of the sponsorship process.21:34
jcastrowhich is a good thing21:34
jcastroso we can use tools like "submittodebian" for things like this21:34
jcastrowhen we do that we tag the bugs21:35
jcastroso in this report you can see that we've forwarded 1557 bugs to debian21:35
jcastro1265 have some form of patch attached21:35
jcastroso as you can see we can do some good there by keeping debian in the loop for patches21:36
jcastrohowever for some packages it may just be appropriate to send it upstream and debian/ubuntu just pick it up the next sync21:36
jcastroany other questions?21:36
leftyfbsorry one more21:38
jcastrohah, I've been looking for a reason to use the ultimate debian database for something21:38
charlie-tcayes, I looked at claws-mail. There is a developer from claws-mail subscribed to the bugs. It is still a candidate for adoptapackage?21:38
leftyfbwhat if it's in Fenian and sourceforge?21:38
jcastrodon't be sorry I am here to please!21:38
leftyfbsubmit to both?21:38
jcastrowhich project?21:38
jcastroI submit to whichever one upstream uses most.21:38
jcastroif you're unsure I fire off an email to a developer21:39
jcastrobecause sometimes they have different requirements21:39
jcastrofor example, some want patches submitted a certain way21:39
leftyfbthe sf project seems to be dead21:39
jcastrosome want patches in bugzilla, and some want them on a mailing list instead.21:39
jcastroheh, no surprise there!21:39
jcastrosubmit it to where upstream is looking the most.21:39
jcastrothis can change too, it's not totally uncommon when I might mail someone and ask21:40
jcastroand it ends up they abandoned that bug tracker or something21:40
leftyfbFenian being the upstream right ?21:40
leftyfbdeviant sorry21:40
leftyfbiPhone and driving :)21:40
jcastrohah, I am looking for it now21:40
jcastrohmm, all the data in the package points to SF21:41
leftyfbright but emmet told me upstream is debian I think21:42
jcastroso probably abandoned upstream?21:42
leftyfbno clue21:42
jcastroyeah, the last release says 2006 on the tarball21:43
jcastroheh, this appears to be one of those cases where you might wake up one day and be the upstream. :p21:43
jcastrocharlie-tca: yeah21:44
jcastrocharlie-tca: usually if an upstream cares enough to watch distro bugs then he probably needs help doing it21:44
jcastrocharlie-tca: usually just asking him for help can be fruitful there.21:44
charlie-tcaworks for me, I guess I'll grab that one then21:44
jcastroyou can split up things, especially for large packages21:44
jcastroor maybe you can tackle a certain class of bugs for him or something21:45
jcastrocharlie-tca: the "idea" I try to convey to upstreams is, when they have a problem that they have "our guy over at ubuntu"21:45
jcastrocharlie-tca: sometimes it could be as simple as just answering questions for them21:45
charlie-tcaIt's just a handful of bugs for claws-mail. I will get with him on them.21:46
jcastroabout things like the release schedule21:46
leftyfbok, now i'm on a real computer :)21:46
jcastroor "I have a security fix I need to get out to my users, where do I go?"21:46
jcastroand then you point them to the security page or something21:46
charlie-tcaA lot of the non-main packages seem to just sit, with the bugs getting missed completely21:47
jcastrowith alot of those smaller upstreams it's a good idea to remind them when freezes are21:47
jcastrobecause sometimes they are in debian too21:47
leftyfbok, so jcastro  ... how would one find out who is the upsteam? By looking at apt-cache policy for the package? In gstm's case it says sourceforge. Should we then be just checking debian just in case? And in this case, hasn't been touched since 2006 so the upstream is???  Now part of ubuntu since all further development has been done with us?21:47
jcastroso I tell them like "hey, freeze is on this date, so if you want to get a release in for Lucid you should probably target around this date"21:47
jcastroleftyfb: ok, so this is what I do21:48
jcastroapt-get source gstm21:48
jcastrothen cd into that dir21:49
jcastroin there most programs have an AUTHORS file and a ChangeLog file21:49
jcastrois what I see in the authors21:49
jcastrothe ChangeLog file in the root is usually the upstream changelog21:50
jcastrothe debian/changelog will be the person that put it in debian/ubuntu21:50
ClassBotThere are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.21:50
jcastroleftyfb: so, I've done this a bunch of times21:50
jcastroand let me share with you what I think will happen21:51
jcastroyou'll email those two guys and they'll say "oh yeah, I remember when I worked on that, people still use that? awesome!"21:51
jcastroand then you'll ask what's up with a new release or something21:51
jcastroand next thing you know, you are the upstream maintainer for gstm!21:51
leftyfbOriginal-Maintainer: Ryan Niebur <ryanryan52@gmail.com>21:52
leftyfbwhat about that from apt-cache show21:52
leftyfbhow does he fit in?21:52
jcastrothat's likely the guy who put it in Debian and now maintains it21:52
jcastrohe probably contacted the two guys from AUTHORS21:52
leftyfbso I should be contacting him first?21:52
jcastroI would say something like21:52
jcastro"hey I saw you in the maintainers field, are you just maintaining this in debian or are you doing upstream work?"21:53
jcastro"and if so, is the SF project dead or what?"21:53
leftyfbok, makes sense21:53
jcastrothere are plenty of packages maintained like that in debian21:54
jcastroso in that case you could just file the bugs directly in the debian BTS21:54
jcastroif he's not looking at the SF bugs then the homepage field in the package needs to be updated21:54
ClassBotThere are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.21:55
jcastrocharlie-tca: I see claws has a ppa too21:56
charlie-tcaI'm learning21:56
leftyfbstill a lot to learn with all this21:57
jcastroyeah sometimes they need help setting up PPA21:57
leftyfbbut i'd love to get the package all cleaned up and up to date21:57
jcastroleftyfb: you can always just ask questions21:57
jcastrobut if you can have a good relationship with the debian guy that's always ideal21:58
leftyfb#ubuntu-bugs <~~ in there?21:58
jcastrowhen I am not around you can always ping qense21:58
jcastrook I need to eat dinner, any last questions!21:59
jcastrogood thing I looked in -chat, sorry about missing it the first time!21:59
jcastroI was like "man bummer, no one came to my class", lol21:59
charlie-tcaheh, Thank you very much for doing this22:00
miguljcastro, thanks for this session22:00
migulstill learning...22:00
jcastrodon't worry, with openweek coming up in a few weeks we'll do it again22:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi

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