[14:57]  * nealmcb o/
[15:00] <ttx> o/
[15:00] <smoser> \o
[15:00] <hggdh> ~o~
[15:00] <nealmcb> much easier now that it is DST here :)
[15:00] <ttx> mathiaz, kirkland: ?
[15:01] <kirkland> o/
[15:01] <mathiaz>  /o
[15:01] <jjohansen> \o
[15:01] <kirkland> ttx: right here
[15:01] <ttx> nealmcb: hey, long time no see
[15:01] <ttx> kirkland: good morning Texas !
[15:01] <nealmcb> ttx indeed - nice to be here
[15:01] <ttx> so, zul is having a dentist appointment and will probably miss the start of this
[15:01] <ttx> and jib is in a plane to... Poland.
[15:02] <ttx> So let's get started !
[15:02] <ttx> #startmeeting
[15:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:02. The chair is ttx.
[15:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:02] <ttx> Welcome to the Ubuntu Server team meeting
[15:02] <ttx> Agenda is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[15:02] <ttx> Today's scribe is: mathiaz !
[15:02] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[15:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[15:03] <ttx> Only one action, mathiaz to discuss with cjwatson about ubuntu-server upload team
[15:03] <mathiaz> ttx: not done
[15:03] <mathiaz> ttx: replace cjwatson with persia
[15:03] <ttx> mathiaz: maybe we shouldn't have it as an ACTION todo before the next meeting ?
[15:03] <mathiaz> ttx: ok
[15:04] <ttx> if you think you won't have time to complete it by next week, I don't see the point :)
[15:04] <ttx> mathiaz: Keep it warm in your GTD ?
[15:04] <mathiaz> ttx: it is
[15:04] <mathiaz> ttx: just lots other stuff there as well
[15:04] <ttx> [TOPIC] Beta2 status
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Beta2 status
[15:05] <ttx> So tomorrow, Beta2Freeze will be upon us
[15:05] <ttx> which means today is probably the last moment to get your non-exceptional fixes in
[15:05] <ttx> Starting tomorrow, they will require a BetaFreezeException.
[15:06] <ttx> Remaining beta2-targeted bugs:
[15:06] <ttx> bug 292971 (mathiaz)
[15:06] <mathiaz> ttx: that will probably require a BetaFreezeException
[15:06] <ttx> mathiaz: ack
[15:06] <mathiaz> ttx: as I don't plan to work on it before tomorrow
[15:07] <mathiaz> (tomorrow is the second MySQL bug zap day)
[15:07] <ttx> bug 493593 (zul)
[15:07] <mathiaz> arg - s/tomorrow/today/
[15:07] <ttx> and bug 408402 (zul)
[15:07] <ttx> Those are MIR bugs that still need to progress on some deps
[15:08] <ttx> A recent search turned out a few bugs milestoned to beta2 but not targeted to lucid
[15:08] <ttx> LP downtime prevented me from triaging them
[15:09] <ttx> I think at least one of them will fall into our plate:
[15:09] <ttx> bug 532733 (kirkland)
[15:09] <kirkland> ttx: that probably won't be mine
[15:09] <kirkland> ttx: that'll be lool or ogra
[15:09] <ttx> ah
[15:09] <ttx> ok
[15:09] <kirkland> ttx: i'm happy to help them
[15:09] <kirkland> ttx: but it's very specific to their use case
[15:10] <ttx> ok, I'll ping you if there is anything left on that list that we need to care for before Freeze or Release
[15:10] <ttx> Looking at Beta2-targeted work items
[15:10] <ttx> on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
[15:10] <ttx> I think all the work items that needed to be completed before the Freeze were done
[15:11] <ttx> with maybe the exception of:
[15:11] <ttx> puppet/uec-ec2: integrate upstream patches for testsuite
[15:11] <ttx> id-mgt-ref-env: apockage latest sssd
[15:11] <mathiaz> ttx: I may have time to do that
[15:11] <mathiaz> ttx: (ie puppet patches)
[15:12] <mathiaz> ttx: upstream closed all the bugs yesterday stating there is a patch available
[15:12] <ttx> mathiaz: ah, good news
[15:12] <mathiaz> ttx: if I don't get it done by beta2 freeze, I'll postpone it to final
[15:12] <ttx> mathiaz: package sssd -> postponed ?
[15:12] <mathiaz> ttx: as fixing the test suite is not beta2 critical
[15:13] <mathiaz> ttx: sssd yes - If I don't have the time to do it
[15:13] <mathiaz> ttx: today
[15:13] <ttx> ok
[15:13] <ttx> Otherwise I think we are on track for Beta2, if you think you aren't, please shout now.
[15:13] <ttx> kirkland: note that I added a libvirt 0.7.7 compatibility test work item to the euca spec
[15:13] <ttx> to reflect the ongoing discussion with jdstrand
[15:14] <kirkland> ttx: i'm meeting up with jdstrand on thursday to work on libvirt
[15:14] <ttx> (can be done post-Freeze)
[15:14] <ttx> kirkland: cool !
[15:14] <kirkland> ttx: yeah, planning on spending a full day on libvirt
[15:14] <ScottK> New for Beta 2 we now have RC2 of clamav 0.96.  Unless something major comes up this will be their last RC before they release, so if anyone cares about clamav, now's a good time for testing (packages for earlier releases in the ubuntu-clamav PPA).
[15:14] <kirkland> ttx: if anyone else wants to help with libvirt testing this week, sync up with me and jdstrand ;-)
[15:15] <ttx> ScottK: ack
[15:15] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[15:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[15:15] <ttx> hggdh: hi !
[15:15] <hggdh> hi, life is good. A question
[15:16] <hggdh> stress and stability tests for UEC -- mathiaz's tests are enough?
[15:16] <hggdh> If so, I am done with B1
[15:16] <mathiaz> hggdh: do you mean the multi_config tests?
[15:16] <hggdh> yes
[15:16] <ttx> hggdh: I think so... unless kirkland or mathiaz have hidden tests up their sleeves
[15:16] <mathiaz> hggdh: ie starting 20 instances and make sure they all work?
[15:17] <hggdh> mathiaz: I ran with 20, 40, 100, 300
[15:17]  * kirkland high fives hggdh 
[15:17]  * hggdh blushes
[15:17] <mathiaz> hggdh: great - that should do it for stress/scalability tests
[15:17] <nealmcb> :)
[15:17] <kirkland> hggdh: if you got 300 instances running, you've been me :-)
[15:17] <kirkland> beaten
[15:17] <mathiaz> hggdh: have you gone through all the topologies?
[15:17] <hggdh> 2 to go through
[15:18] <hggdh> so I am (yet) not done
[15:18] <ttx> Should we plan to run the multi-network topology by hand ?
[15:18] <mathiaz> hggdh: multi-network being one of them?
[15:18] <mathiaz> ttx: for the time being yes
[15:18] <ttx> ok
[15:19] <hggdh> mathiaz: yes. multi-network is higjly hand-driven
[15:19] <mathiaz> ttx: I may be able to deploy it on the UEC test rig
[15:19] <ttx> kirkland: you managed to run a CC with 2 NICs on your setup ?
[15:19] <kirkland> ttx: i have not
[15:20] <ttx> kirkland: I suggest you go and buy a USB Gb NIC
[15:20] <ttx> if that's the blocker
[15:20] <kirkland> ttx: okay, so I should focus on testing multi-network at this point?
[15:20] <ttx> kirkland: I wouldn't say "focus", but having the ability to run that test would be good
[15:21] <ttx> kirkland: otherwise it sounds like I'm the only one to test that.
[15:21] <kirkland> ttx: well, it's a time-consuming effort, so if it's something i need to work on, it will need to be my "focus"
[15:21] <ttx> kirkland: libvirt has more priority
[15:21] <kirkland> ttx: i have the hardware to do so, I believe
[15:21] <kirkland> ttx: okay, thanks, that's what I needed
[15:21] <ttx> hggdh: I had a question for you about Beta2 ISO testcases. Any way we can preview what you plan to have for beta2, so that we can fix testcases and report issues ?
[15:22] <ttx> hggdh: in particular, I mentioned having tests for UEC install topologies in the ISo tracker for amd64
[15:22] <ttx> hggdh: is that done, any way to preview it ?
[15:23] <hggdh> ttx, no changes from what is already there, no time
[15:23] <ttx> hggdh: is the plan to change those before beta2 ?
[15:23] <hggdh> got my hands full figuring out how uec runs
[15:23] <ttx> hggdh: do you need our help ?
[15:24] <ttx> hggdh: could someone else working on the tracker (ara ?) help ?
[15:24] <hggdh> right now I am finally -- I think -- getting it
[15:24] <ttx> hggdh: if the cases are created, I can certainly document them.
[15:24] <hggdh> ttx will do them today. This is why I also asked if the stress tests were done for B1
[15:24] <ttx> ok
[15:25] <ttx> hggdh: keep me posted...
[15:25] <ttx> anything else for QA ?
[15:25] <hggdh> no, not right now
[15:25] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[15:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[15:25] <ttx> hggdh: thanks
[15:25] <ttx> jjohansen: hi
[15:25] <jjohansen> hi
[15:26] <jjohansen> fixes for Bug #540378, Bug #527208 have gone into the beta2 kernel
[15:27] <ttx> jjohansen: great ! any reason why the bugs are not marked fixed yet ? You need to upload them ?
[15:27] <jjohansen> no promise that it will fix all soft lockups as they are caused by a variety of things but they shouldn't happen near as often
[15:27] <jjohansen> ttx: hrrm, I have to check into that, they were just sucked in yesterday
[15:28] <leoquant> 2/part
[15:28] <ttx> jjohansen: if they are in the pipe, I'm happy with it
[15:28] <ttx> anything else from/to kernel ?
[15:29] <jjohansen> I can't think of anything on my end
[15:29] <ttx> ok, thanks !
[15:29] <ttx> [TOPIC] Server Papercuts status for beta2
[15:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Papercuts status for beta2
[15:29] <ttx> So we are nearing the end of the Server papercuts effort
[15:29] <ttx> as a papercut is not a valid BetaFreezeException motivation
[15:30] <ttx> Status at: https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/lucid-beta-2
[15:30] <ttx> We have 8 bugs fixed (the inprogress one will move to fixreleased as soon as LP unfreezes)
[15:30] <ttx> 1 invalid, 2 left open
[15:31] <ttx> feel free to try to fix the 2 last "confirmed" ones if you have the time
[15:31] <ttx> We'll discuss at UDS-M how successful it was and if we should do it again, even on non-LTS cycles
[15:32] <ttx> I think it failed to motivate new contrributors, but still had a positive effect overrall
[15:32] <ttx> Comments on that ?
[15:33] <hggdh> ttx: we should discuss on UDS-M how to motivate them contributors
[15:33] <kirkland> ttx: +1 for another discussion at UDS
[15:33] <nijaba> ttx: I take it we don't accept new papercuts now?
[15:33] <ttx> hggdh: yes. it's a more global "server community" discussion, I suspect
[15:33] <kirkland> ttx: we clearly need to investigate how to motivate our community
[15:33] <ttx> nijaba: we won't consider any new ones
[15:34] <nijaba> ttx: thanks for confirming
[15:34] <ttx> nijaba: for lucid
[15:34] <kirkland> ttx: i have a similar feeling about the bug-zapping effort
[15:34] <ttx> nijaba: nominating them could be useful if we decide to pursue the effort for M
[15:34] <ttx> good transition !
[15:34] <ttx> [TOPIC] Bugzapping status (kirkland)
[15:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bugzapping status (kirkland)
[15:34] <kirkland> ttx: we really smoked eucalyptus, euca2ools, cloud-utils, and cloud-init bugs last week
[15:35] <kirkland> ttx: was a really successful, focused week of bug fixing
[15:35] <ttx> so it was a "cloud" smoke
[15:35] <kirkland> ttx: yeah, like Lost
[15:35]  * kirkland is going to shave his head like John Locke
[15:35] <kirkland> :-)
[15:35] <ttx> kirkland: did you have external contributors to this one ?
[15:35] <kirkland> ttx: this week, as I said, I'm planning on spending at least all day Thursday on Libvirt
[15:35] <kirkland> ttx: no :-(
[15:36] <kirkland> ttx: but we did focus on euca* cloud* and we do have a better UEC because of the intense focus, I believe
[15:36] <ttx> mathiaz: did you get some external help on the bugday portion of the mysql bugzap ?
[15:36] <mathiaz> ttx: pedro and zul helped in triagging bugs
[15:37]  * ttx remembers having two external people helping for the samba bugday part of the samba bugzapping
[15:38] <ttx> kirkland: do you plan to run something for week 23 ?
[15:38] <ttx> (next week)
[15:38] <kirkland> ttx: i don't think so
[15:39] <kirkland> ttx: unless you or someone else has a suggestion
[15:39] <ttx> kirkland: freezes are not the best moment to do so anyway
[15:39] <kirkland> ttx: i just don't think it's generated the participation that we're hoping
[15:39] <kirkland> ttx: though it has stabilized the packages we need to be stable
[15:39] <ttx> ok.
[15:39] <kirkland> ttx: i think my time will be better spent crushing beta2 blockers
[15:39] <kirkland> ttx: okay by you?
[15:40] <ttx> kirkland: yes, and catching the overlooked critical bug in a sea of bug reports
[15:40] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
[15:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review (mathiaz)
[15:40] <ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review
[15:41] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[15:41] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[15:41] <mathiaz> ^^ anything SRU worth on this list?
[15:42]  * ttx wonders why the openldap upgrade bugs don't show up in the list
[15:42] <mathiaz> ttx: the list is generated on Sunday night IIRC
[15:42] <ttx> ah
[15:42] <ttx> that will be next week topic, then :)
[15:43] <mathiaz> ttx: yes
[15:43] <ttx> nothing from me, then ;)
[15:43] <mathiaz> there are two bugs nominated for karmic:
[15:43] <mathiaz> bug 392190
[15:43] <mathiaz> bug 502490
[15:44] <ttx> first one needs to be fixed in Lucid first
[15:44] <ttx> smoser: what's your opinion on the second one, any value in backporting as a karmic SRU ?
[15:45] <smoser> hmm....
[15:45] <smoser> i could go either way.
[15:45] <smoser> i dont think its terribly, terribly important.
[15:45] <smoser> as there are many work arounds, like using sources.list.d
[15:45] <mathiaz> ok - I'll decline both bugs then
[15:46] <ttx> mathiaz: you're done ?
[15:46] <mathiaz> yes
[15:46] <ttx> [TOPIC] Information about server survey (nijaba)
[15:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  Information about server survey (nijaba)
[15:46] <ttx> nijaba: o/
[15:46] <nijaba> ttx: that was for the meeting that was cancelled
[15:47] <ttx> and it doesn't make sense anymore ?
[15:47] <nijaba> since that I guess you've seen my email in the ml
[15:47] <ttx> ok :)
[15:47] <ttx> nijaba: so we rock more, right ?
[15:47] <nijaba> it was juste to annoucne that the full results are available to anyone in the community that might need it
[15:47] <nijaba> ttx: we rock HARD
[15:47] <nijaba> :)
[15:48] <ttx> ok, let's rock even harder
[15:49] <ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[15:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[15:49] <hggdh> ttx: question: should I keep on testing UEC on daily?
[15:49] <ttx> hggdh: if that can be done at a lesser cost, that would be great to spot regressions
[15:50] <ttx> hggdh: if it's fully automated and doesn't require your constant attention, I'd say yes
[15:50] <ScottK> ttx: I think we should have a session at UDS on what we want 12.04 to look like, so we have an idea of longer term stuff we need to start on now.
[15:50] <hggdh> I think *now* it is less cost, the most difficult was to understand the setup and UEC itself
[15:50] <ttx> ScottK: that's a very good point.
[15:50] <mathiaz> hggdh: note that daily are not always functional
[15:51] <ttx> Discuss anything that would span multiple releases, as well as what needs to be done for the next 6 months
[15:52] <ttx> hggdh: what needs to be done is the post-milestone validation and the pre-milestone candidate testing. Anything else (like testing all dailies) is bonus points
[15:52] <ttx> (what needs to be done is tracked in the spec)
[15:53] <ttx> ok, let's wrap up, if nobody else has any comment
[15:54] <ttx> Announce next meeting date and time : same time, same place, next week.
[15:54] <ttx> I gather DST makes this time slightly more convenient ?
[15:54] <Daviey> (less)
[15:54] <ttx> (equal)
[15:54] <kirkland> ttx: more!
[15:55] <mathiaz> more would even be better
[15:55] <ttx> mathiaz: sleepy head
[15:55] <Daviey> 15:00 UTC ++
[15:56] <ttx> Try to pay lots of beers to jib at UDS to make him change time
[15:56] <ttx> Daviey: ^
[15:56] <ttx> #endmeeting
[15:56] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:56.
[15:56] <Daviey> ttx: wilco :)
[15:56] <ttx> thanks everyone !
[15:58]  * ttx gets busy updating his LP queue
[17:56]  * ara waves
[17:57]  * davmor2 waves back
[17:57]  * marjo waves
[17:58]  * fader_ leans against the wall and tries to look nonchalant.
[17:58]  * cyphermox waves
[17:58]  * bladernr_ looks more nonchalant than fader
[17:59]  * charlie-tca waves, too
[17:59]  * sbeattie waves and then grabs coffee quick.
[17:59] <davmor2> fader_: that's the wall I just painted it's still wet
[17:59] <marjo> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is marjo.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <fader_> davmor2: That's just camouflage for me then
[18:00] <marjo> hi folks
[18:00] <marjo> Agenda:
[18:00] <marjo>     * Introduce Mathieu Trudel (cyphermox)
[18:00] <marjo>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:00] <marjo>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
[18:01] <marjo> #topic Introduce Mathieu Trudel
[18:01] <cyphermox> that's my cue?
[18:01] <marjo> [TOPIC] Introduce Mathieu Trudel
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Introduce Mathieu Trudel
[18:01] <marjo> cyphermox yes
[18:01] <cyphermox> so hi everyone! My name is Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre, and people usually just call me Matt
[18:01] <sbeattie> welcome cyphermox!
[18:01] <cyphermox> I've started at Canonical on Monday in hardware certification, working with Marc
[18:02] <marjo> Mathieu joined Canonical this week as HW Certification Engineer
[18:02] <fader_> cyphermox: Welcome!
[18:02] <ara> cyphermox, welcome!
[18:02] <bladernr_> cyphermox:  Welcome!
[18:02] <charlie-tca> cyphermox: welcome
[18:03] <cyphermox> before that I've been doing lots of work on NetworkManager specifically, as well as on other projects in Ubuntu, a lot of them in universe (goal: joining the MOTU team), or in collaboration with jcastro
[18:03] <cyphermox> thanks!
[18:03] <marjo> cyphermox: welcome again
[18:03] <davmor2> cyphermox: welcome to the madhouse
[18:03] <marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:03] <cyphermox> I'm also the debian maintainer for acct, concordance, congruity, ethos, and hopefully soon emerillon :)
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:04] <sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-03-24):
[18:04] <sbeattie> * karmic: 3 new packages in -proposed (devicekit-disks, linux, tzdata) and 6 packages pushed to -updates (devicekit-disks(twice), gst-plugins-bad0.10, linux-firmware-nonfree, rrdtool, tzdata)
[18:04] <sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (linux-firmware, tzdata) and 1 package pushed to -updates (tzdata)
[18:04] <sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (tzdata) and 1 package pushed to -updates (tzdata)
[18:04] <sbeattie> * hardy: 2 new packages in -proposed (linux, tzdata) and 2 packages pushed to -updates (tzdata, zabbix)
[18:04] <sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (langpack-locales) and 1 package pushed to -updates (langpack-locales)
[18:04] <sbeattie> Thanks to MichaL, AlexR, Νίκος Αλεξανδρής, Rodrigo Campos, Rasmus, Michael Goetze, Soos Gergely, and Matthew L. Dailey for testing SRUs this week.
[18:04] <sbeattie> Unless there's any questions, that's all I've got on the SRU front.
[18:04] <pedro_> (sorry i'm having some connection problems... damn isp)
[18:05] <marjo> pedro_ please watch your language!
[18:05] <marjo> darn isp
[18:06] <marjo> sbeattie: thx
[18:06] <marjo> [TOPIC] Bug Day status -- pvillavi
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status -- pvillavi
[18:07] <marjo> since pedro's having problems, let's get back to him later
[18:07] <marjo> [TOPIC] New topics for today?
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  New topics for today?
[18:08] <marjo> reminder: Lucid Beta 2 is next Thursday, 8 April
[18:08] <cr3> Checkbox 0.9.1 candidate has been up for update in Lucid for a while, hopefully will be uploaded today
[18:09] <marjo> cr3: thx
[18:09] <cr3> hggdh: ^^^ that's the version that'll fix the problem detecting your hard drive
[18:10] <marjo> folks: any other topics for today?
[18:11] <bladernr_> cr3:  bug number?  I may have run into that myself this morning
[18:11] <hggdh> cr3: cool
[18:11] <sbeattie> cr3: are all the open lucid issues for checkbox addressed in 0.9.1?
[18:12] <sbeattie> (e.g. vbox lack of chassis info issue)
[18:12] <cr3> bladernr_: bug #549714
[18:12] <bladernr_> cr3:  thanks
[18:12] <cr3> sbeattie: yes, bug #537435 is also fixed in the above version
[18:13] <cr3> sbeattie: once that's uploaded, I'll have another look over the pending bugs. I expect to have another version 0.9.2 after the weekend
[18:13] <marjo> pedro_ are you up & reliable?
[18:14] <pedro_> marjo, yeah seems so
[18:14] <sbeattie> cr3: okay. I was having trouble running the qa-regression-testing stuff under checkbox, but I'm not sure I'm fully up to date with your tip.
[18:14] <marjo> go for it quick!
[18:14] <pedro_> so if you haven't talked about bug days we had one last week about Ubuntu Translations
[18:15] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100325
[18:15] <pedro_> ~50 bugs were triaged, thanks a lot to dpm, kamusin and qense for helping out that day!
[18:16] <pedro_> Tomorrow we're celebrating one based on Nautilus with an special focus on Samba issues so if you use nautilus for access any smb share please test and file bugs about it
[18:16] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100401
[18:16] <pedro_> there's plenty of bugs to be triaged so if you want to help just join us tomorrow at #ubuntu-bugs
[18:17] <pedro_> that's all from here
[18:17] <pedro_> ( am i still online? )
[18:17] <marjo> pedro_ thx
[18:17] <pedro_> \o/
[18:17] <hggdh> heh
[18:18] <marjo> any more new topics for today?
[18:18] <marjo> if not, i propose we adjourn the meeting
[18:18] <marjo> going once
[18:18] <marjo> going twice
[18:18] <marjo> meeting adjourned
[18:18] <marjo> thx everyone!
[18:19] <fader_> Thanks all
[18:19] <marjo> #endmeeting
[18:19] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:19.
[18:19] <pedro_> thanks and sorry again
[18:19] <marjo> pedro_ no worries
[18:19] <marjo> cr3: stuff happens
[19:21] <balto_> hello everyone
[19:29] <balto_> nick rex
[20:01] <highvoltage> hi everyone
[20:01] <mhall119> hi
[20:01] <bencrisford> fancy seeing you here :)
[20:02]  * stgraber waves
[20:02] <mgariepy> hi everyone !
[20:02] <bencrisford> mgariepy: hi! :)
[20:02] <Lns> hello!
[20:03] <highvoltage> agenda, as always is on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
[20:03] <alkisg> Hi people
[20:04] <stgraber> on Revolution Linux's side, highvoltage did all the work this week ;) so you won't hear much from me at this meeting.
[20:04] <highvoltage> I'm just finishing a quick upload before I start (something I want to show you)
[20:05] <highvoltage> this is what our ubiquity-slideshow will look like: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/edubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow/
[20:05] <mhall119> does anyone have a link to a Plymouth theme how-to?
[20:05] <stgraber> highvoltage: Would be great if you or I could record that demo I made on Monday at the Stand up and upload that somewhere (youtube or similar)
[20:05] <highvoltage> the ubuntu logos will be replaced by edubuntu logos once we ehave them
[20:05] <highvoltage> stgraber: good idea! noted
[20:05] <ScottK> We got the official "K" for Kubuntu yesterday, so there's hope.
[20:06] <stgraber> ScottK: yep, saw that last night, hoping to get the "E" and "d" soon ;)
[20:06] <mhall119> wait, is someone still making all the letters for the font?
[20:06] <highvoltage> ScottK: I saw on planet ubuntu! and it did indeed give me hope :)
[20:06] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:06] <mhall119> wow, I thought it was done
[20:06] <highvoltage> mhall119: yep
[20:06] <bencrisford> highvoltage: i was working on some web buttons to advertise edubuntu..  i dont know if they're any good
[20:06] <ScottK> When they published, the only letters done were Ubunt.
[20:07] <mhall119> heh
[20:07] <bencrisford> they're .gifs in case thats a problem :/, the ubuntu ones are flash i think?
[20:07] <Lns> highvoltage: the slideshow .. does it have controls to go back/forth?
[20:07] <highvoltage> bencrisford: upload them somewhere or paste them on a wiki page and send a link to the list! perhaps we or at least someone could use them!
[20:07] <bencrisford> highvoltage: already hav done ;) http://i42.tinypic.com/mctf28.gif
[20:07] <highvoltage> Lns: nope, it just cycles through, it's possible to add back and forward buttons with javascript though
[20:07] <Lns> highvoltage: i didn't know there was more than 1 slide until i went back to the page ;)
[20:07] <highvoltage> bencrisford: cool
[20:08] <Lns> looks really nice though so far
[20:08] <mhall119> Lns: neither did I
[20:08] <bencrisford> nor me
[20:08] <Lns> hmm, s/dark/gray matter ?
[20:08] <mhall119> yeah
[20:08] <highvoltage> Lns: ah right! I've been watching too many cosmology documentaries lately!
[20:08] <highvoltage> I'll change that
[20:08] <Lns> hahahaha =) nice
[20:08] <stgraber> ;)
[20:09] <mhall119> it's all that LHC stuff
[20:09] <Lns> seriously
[20:09] <highvoltage> besides that, our artwork is pretty much shaping up, we never made lots of concious decisions around artwork
[20:09] <highvoltage> but where there was doubt I just used white with a red border (like in the radiance theme)
[20:10] <highvoltage> and green like we have in the trees
[20:10] <highvoltage> for background colours (like in plymouth) I just picked it from the light colours on the wallpaper
[20:10] <mhall119> highvoltage: I need to learn how to make a plymouth theme, any good resources?
[20:10] <highvoltage> overall I think our artwork will work ok and it kind of looks like it was designed to all look like that and fit together :)
[20:11] <highvoltage> I'll probably make an Edubuntu branding page like the Ubuntu one, then we can propose changes and improvements for the future on that as well
[20:11] <highvoltage> mhall119: the simplest is probably to grab the source package for the lubuntu or xubuntu plymouth themes and look what they did,
[20:11] <mhall119> ok
[20:11] <mhall119> is XSplash still used in 10.04?
[20:12] <highvoltage> mhall119: you don't have to compile the themes like with usplash, so they're quite self-explanatory
[20:12] <mhall119> ok
[20:12] <highvoltage> mhall119: unfortunately there's not much in terms of official docs for plymouth yet (as far as I know)
[20:12] <mhall119> thanks anyway
[20:12] <highvoltage> mhall119: no usplash is history
[20:12] <mhall119> but XSplash is still around, yes?
[20:13] <stgraber> nope
[20:13] <stgraber> xsplash is history as well
[20:13] <highvoltage> I uploaded a new artwork package that contains a script that will add "install LTSP" and "install Netbook interface" icons in the desktop, so that you could install that after the main installation if you want
[20:13] <highvoltage> I'm having some trouble with the ltsp part, a bug with installing ldm-server keeps byting me but it doesn't seem to affect anyone else
[20:14] <highvoltage> if anyone could download the next daily build and help figure that out, it would be great
[20:14] <Lns> highvoltage: what's the issue?
[20:14] <stgraber> that's hoping the next daily will actually build
[20:14] <stgraber> last night's failed due to langpack and gnome being slightly broken
[20:15] <highvoltage> Lns: well, the bug had something to do with inetd misbehavingI think, but it's been resolved, upon installation, it just hangs, and strace repeats the following about every second or so:
[20:15] <highvoltage> pselect6(25, [0 24], NULL, NULL, {1, 0}, {[], 8}) = 0 (Timeout)
[20:15] <highvoltage> waitpid(8292, 0xbfa77bb0, WNOHANG)      = 0
[20:16] <Lns> highvoltage: alkisg and i both have had that issue. if you restart openbsd-inetd it'll keep installing ldm-server...so you're not alone :) it's in normal ubuntu as well
[20:16] <highvoltage> (and I'm not even sure what that means except for the opvious timeout and hang description)
[20:16] <highvoltage> Lns: but it's been fixed recently?
[20:16] <Lns> highvoltage: stgraber fixed it i think..? or thought he did
[20:16] <Lns> i forget what the outcome was after i spoke about it in the chan
[20:17] <highvoltage> stgraber said that he fixed it... so he did :)
[20:17] <Lns> ok
[20:18] <highvoltage> stgraber: could we ask that a new daily build could be triggered so that we can test if it currently breaks? or is it currently an ubuntu-wide problem?
[20:19] <stgraber> highvoltage: ubuntu-wide
[20:19] <stgraber> highvoltage: I had to wait until this morning (EDT) before I could install a standard ubuntu desktop
[20:19] <stgraber> and currently empathy is breaking on upgrade
[20:19] <highvoltage> stgraber: ouch. well at least that means it gets priority :)
[20:20] <highvoltage> I have nothing further for technical...
[20:21] <highvoltage> mgariepy: ooh, except that I just realised that we should mention the edubuntu menu editor in the installer slideshow, I'll add that to the next revision
[20:21] <mgariepy> ok good ;) thanks.
[20:22] <stgraber> highvoltage: Is sabayon mentioned ?
[20:22] <mhall119> yes
[20:22] <highvoltage> stgraber: it is indeed, it's mentioned in the administration slide
[20:22] <stgraber> great
[20:22] <highvoltage> stgraber: that's where I plan to mention the menu editor as well
[20:22] <stgraber> I only briefly looking at the slideshow a day ago when actually installing edubuntu ;)
[20:22] <Lns> sabayon has come a very long way, i tested it out yesterday on 10.04 and it works damn well so far
[20:22] <highvoltage> if there's time I'll probably add one or two more slides, I think it would be nice to have a tux4kids slide as well
[20:23] <highvoltage> Lns: yeah sbalneav put a lot of energy into it
[20:23] <Lns> yes he did!
[20:23] <highvoltage> stgraber: heh, I guess very few people will actually ever look at the slideshow :)
[20:24] <Lns> highvoltage: while you mention tux4kids, i'm on their list and they're having a lot of discussion regarding GSoC and mentors, contributors..if anyone is interested now would be the time to help those projects out
[20:24] <stgraber> highvoltage: you'd be surprised. I guess most people installing it for the first time will read it.
[20:24] <Lns> there's a lot of improvement that could be made especially in the touch typing program. It's a great program, but it could use a lot of work for lessons, progress tracking, you know..school stuff that's needed
[20:24] <highvoltage> stgraber: cool :)
[20:25] <highvoltage> Lns: that's been a request pretty much since the first edubuntu release, we should perhaps prioritise it for 10.10 and do a concerted effort to get some educators involved in that
[20:26] <Lns> that would be awesome
[20:26] <Lns> linux still needs a quality touch typing program
[20:26] <Lns> that fits the standards of school requirements
[20:26] <highvoltage> bencrisford: you added marketing team to the agenda?
[20:27] <bencrisford> highvoltage: yes :) i did
[20:27] <highvoltage> I'd like to hear more about it since we don't really have a marketing team atm :)
[20:28] <bencrisford> highvoltage: so i just say my piece? :)
[20:28] <highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, it's an open meeting
[20:28] <bencrisford> okey doke :)
[20:29] <bencrisford> well, edubuntu doesnt seem to have a marketing team, it has an advocacy team...
[20:29] <bencrisford> but that seems to have been dead for a long time
[20:29] <bencrisford> i think that this is something that needs fixing fast
[20:29] <bencrisford> its not just users that we need to find
[20:29] <bencrisford> its contributors
[20:29] <highvoltage> indeed, with the eduntu revival of the last year or so we haven't put any effort into reviving that part yet
[20:30] <bencrisford> if you goto http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs
[20:30] <bencrisford> there are over 300 i think
[20:30] <bencrisford> some of them date back to gutsy or earlier!
[20:30] <highvoltage> mostly because there are very few people who have time for that currently
[20:30] <bencrisford> we really need bug triagers and fixers
[20:31] <Lns> yikes 72 alone for gimp..
[20:31] <highvoltage> bencrisford: so you're saying that we should do a campaign to gain more triagers and fixers?
[20:31] <bencrisford> Lns: but that is gimp in ubuntu as well..
[20:31] <Lns> ah
[20:31] <bencrisford> highvoltage: yes, in the short term, in the long term marketing in general
[20:31] <bencrisford> to get users
[20:31] <highvoltage> Lns: yep, those bugs are in the packages which are common to ubuntu/kubuntu/xubuntu/edubuntu/lubuntu/etc
[20:32] <bencrisford> on the bug front, i was thinking we could send a message out to the bugs list asking everyone to try and triage x amount of bugs
[20:32] <highvoltage> bencrisford: I like that you want to focus one one specific part at first
[20:32] <bencrisford> it would be sorted in no time
[20:32] <mhall119> has anyone from Edubuntu been interviewed for Ubuntu User of FCM yet?
[20:32] <bencrisford> highvoltage: well we need contributors in order to do more things.. :P
[20:32] <highvoltage> bencrisford: we had a bug day in February, I think more people would've participated if we could have built more hype around it
[20:33] <bencrisford> highvoltage: exactly, im sad i missed that :(
[20:33] <bencrisford> but i think its a bit worrying when theres bugs in gutsy packages that havent been looked at since they were reported!
[20:33] <bencrisford> there are nearly 150 pepole on #ubuntu-bugs at this one moment
[20:33] <highvoltage> bencrisford: perhaps if you have some time, would you be willing to co-host a bug day with sbalneav and also do the spread-the-word work for it?
[20:33] <bencrisford> of all of them helped triage 2 bugs, then it would be sorted
[20:34] <bencrisford> highvoltage: sounds good, i have 2 weeks off starting tonight, im away for part of it, but im home for at least a week with nothing to do
[20:35] <highvoltage> bencrisford: hmm, yes perhaps you could pull #ubuntu-bugs in on our bug day too, we didn't try doing that before
[20:35] <bencrisford> yeah :)
[20:35] <mhall119> they are asking for people to lead Open Week sessions, an edubuntu and/or ltsp session would be a good idea
[20:35] <bencrisford> mhall119: this was another thing i was going to mention :)
[20:36] <mhall119> and we can probably talk akgraner or pendulum into running an interview with one of the Edubuntu leads
[20:36] <bencrisford> sounds good
[20:36] <highvoltage> stgraber: I'm a bit fuzzy on the policy, after the beta2 release the archives will be open for bug fix uploads again right?
[20:37] <stgraber> until RC freeze yes
[20:37] <stgraber> you should be able to upload between the 8th and the 15th
[20:37] <stgraber> then we're frozzen for good
[20:38] <highvoltage> bencrisford: that then means that we can only do a bug day next week (Tuesday or Wednesday'ish). later than that and we probably wouldn't be able to upload any fixes any more
[20:38] <mhall119> highvoltage: we could for 10.10
[20:38] <bencrisford> highvoltage: im not sure im around wednesday
[20:38] <highvoltage> mhall119: indeed, I'm of course refering to 10.04 specifically
[20:39] <bencrisford> highvoltage: monday/tuesday-ish sounds better to me
[20:39] <highvoltage> bencrisford: yep, it would also give little time to announce it
[20:39] <highvoltage> bencrisford: think about it and let us know tomorrow morning
[20:40] <bencrisford> monday im not home, but ill have my laptop...
[20:40] <bencrisford> tuesday i think im home
[20:40] <highvoltage> bencrisford: a bug day early next week might do wonders giving edubuntu just that last bit of polish before release
[20:40] <bencrisford> highvoltage: yeah
[20:41] <highvoltage> bencrisford: "#
[20:41] <highvoltage> # Joint projects with other teams, ubuntu students perhaps? "
[20:41] <highvoltage> I think you added that one too?
[20:41] <bencrisford> yeah
[20:41] <bencrisford> that was something i was kind of planning when i was around in november
[20:41] <bencrisford> im not sure its a good idea anymore with the students team
[20:41] <mhall119> highvoltage: did you see nali's email about cross-pollination?
[20:41] <bencrisford> seems to be a bit dead, but with other teams it could be productive
[20:42] <Lns> bencrisford: what do you mean 'joint projects' specifically?
[20:42] <highvoltage> mhall119: I have a bunch of e-mails marked as "looks interesting" which I plan to read later... and that's one of them :)
[20:43] <mhall119> highvoltage: it seems relevant to this
[20:43] <bencrisford> Lns: when i put it down i was thinking of marketing i think
[20:43] <highvoltage> mhall119: hmm, or at least I thought so, on what list was that?
[20:43] <bencrisford> having the students team advertising a distro for students seemed a good idea at the time
[20:43] <mhall119> loco contacts I think
[20:43] <bencrisford> but like i say, the team seems inactive
[20:44] <Lns> I totally agree that collaborating and introducing ourselves to related educational projects is a must for our survival and prosperity
[20:44] <bencrisford> i also used to have contact with the belgian loco, they used a poster i made for spreadubuntu a while back
[20:44] <Lns> there are tons of school projects we could look into, local for each one of us and national/international
[20:45] <Lns> I was just thinking this morning if there was something like a "Teachers for Open Source" collective
[20:45] <highvoltage> Lns: the ideas are always there but when it comes to doing everyone usually dissappears :)
[20:45] <Lns> we need to present ourselves to the ones who matter and have real influence in education
[20:45] <Lns> highvoltage: I'm willing to start a group like this...I just need to research how to do it most effectively =)
[20:45] <mhall119> education is going to be hesitant until there is someone or something "officially" behind edubuntu
[20:46] <highvoltage> Lns: awesome :)
[20:46] <Lns> mhall119: catch 22
[20:46] <bencrisford> highvoltage: im not planning on disappearing :P
[20:46] <bencrisford> again...
[20:46] <Lns> haha
[20:46] <mhall119> Lns: I meant in terms of support
[20:46] <highvoltage> Lns: well that also ties to some of what bencrisford and mhall119 said earlier so we basically already have a team there :)
[20:46] <Lns> the more grassroots involvement we have with education, the faster it will catch on
[20:46] <Lns> highvoltage: the students for ubuntu?
[20:47] <mhall119> suppose I'm a school admin, and I want to roll out Edubuntu, whom should I contact?
[20:47] <Lns> mhall119: that's a different idea i think
[20:47] <highvoltage> Lns: well, you Lns mhall119 and bencrisford to begin with :)
[20:47] <highvoltage> mhall119: well, I thought that we made it reasonably clear that they wouldn't have to contact anyone if they'd want to roll it out
[20:47] <mhall119> highvoltage: ad-hoc collections of volunteers aren't reliable
[20:48] <Lns> we need advocacy and enlightenment to educators, they aren't techies .. before they roll out edubuntu, them and their staffs are going to say "wtf is edubuntu?"
[20:48] <bencrisford> what are we going to do about the lp advocacy team?  because it looks a bit neglected
[20:48] <mhall119> highvoltage: they don't have to, but they will want to, because they will have questions
[20:48] <highvoltage> mhall119: indeed, you have alternate suggestions?
[20:48] <mhall119> highvoltage: none that I like at the moment
[20:48] <highvoltage> mhall119: :)
[20:48] <bencrisford> 31 applied members, applications dating back to 06...
[20:48] <mhall119> short of corronating someone here as "THE Edubuntu lead"
[20:48] <Lns> mhall119: well they can call ME for one, my business is installing linux/ltsp/edubuntu networks in schools =)
[20:49] <Lns> so is stgraber
[20:49] <mhall119> Lns: but neither of you are the "official" contacts for Edubuntu
[20:49] <Lns> and can-o-spam in #ltsp among many others
[20:49] <highvoltage> mhall119: I know, and you're entirely right, but it's kind of hard to solve it on a global scale. even if we do have a single edubuntu contact, it's not going to solve the problem
[20:49] <mhall119> you're just two guys who do stuff with it, as far as schools are concerned
[20:49] <Lns> mhall119: sure I am, I'm on the EC
[20:50] <bencrisford> does there need to be an official contact? if we encouraged people to seek support via irc, they could talk to any developer
[20:50] <mhall119> Lns: is the EC discussed in any Edubuntu literature aimed at schools?
[20:50] <Lns> schools want someone they know, preferably someone local, that's trusted in their community.
[20:50] <stgraber> the Edubuntu release contacts are highvoltage and myself. Official contact for Edubuntu matters is the EC. Though that's mostly for the development side of things.
[20:50] <Lns> the "official" thing isn't as much of an issue, or hasn't been for me at least.
[20:50] <highvoltage> mhall119: I understand where you're coming from on this, and I'm with you, but for the sake of taking it through, what would such a school typically contact such a representative of Edubuntu for?
[20:50] <bencrisford> well, not all edubuntu devs can be trusted in every local community Lns
[20:50] <mhall119> Lns: I agree, but even still they want to know that someone is piloting the ship
[20:51] <highvoltage> mhall119: I'd guess that most of them would want some kind of official support or perhaps even some form of real-life out-there meeting
[20:51] <mhall119> highvoltage: it's not even that they would contact anyone
[20:51] <Lns> bencrisford: of course, that's where the bits of each community come in.
[20:51] <mhall119> but they would feel better about deploying if they knew who they should contact if they have a problem
[20:51] <Lns> mhall119: of course.
[20:52] <mhall119> if that's an individual, or the EC, I don't think it matters
[20:52] <bencrisford> i see this as all coming back to needing contributors..  if there was one of us in most national locos, that would make things alot easier
[20:52] <Lns> you need an expert with it, no matter if they're "official" or not.
[20:52] <bencrisford> and for support people could go through locos
[20:52] <mhall119> Lns: no you don't, you just need someone to take up your issue and get your a resolution
[20:52] <Lns> we need to start from the ground up and build a solid community-based foundation
[20:52] <highvoltage> well, our canonical^W official contact address is the edubuntu-devel mailing list and for support the edubuntu-users list
[20:53] <mhall119> does the EC have it's own mailing list?
[20:53] <Lns> do schools call microsoft when they have problems with windows?
[20:53] <mhall119> Lns: they can
[20:53] <Lns> but they don't
[20:53] <mhall119> but they can, and that makes them feel safer about using Microsoft's products
[20:53] <highvoltage> mhall119: nope, we've never had a reason to have one
[20:53] <bencrisford> Lns: no, because msoft would just make things worse...
[20:53] <Lns> mhall119: i disagree... they feel safe because "everyone uses it"
[20:54] <mhall119> Lns: that too, yes
[20:54] <mhall119> but look at the proprietary educations tools they use
[20:54] <highvoltage> mhall119: but even if we did, what difference would it make? imagine if everyone who ever wanted to install Ubuntu would want to talk to the CC about it first?
[20:54] <mhall119> more often, nobody else is using it
[20:54] <Lns> mhall119: you're getting off point :)
[20:54] <bencrisford> would it be possible, so set up a moderated support team, and when somebody emailed the address, the emails were evenly distributed between members?
[20:54] <mhall119> highvoltage: individuals don't have to CYA
[20:54] <mhall119> school admins do
[20:55] <mhall119> I'm just saying, if we are going to market Edubuntu, it needs to have more behind it than an ad-hoc group of developers
[20:55] <Lns> mhall119: agreed
[20:55] <bencrisford> mhall119: which is why we are focusing on contributors first
[20:55] <highvoltage> mhall119: ok, I see
[20:56] <mhall119> bencrisford: yes, and I agree with that approach
[20:56] <Lns> IMHO a solid user/admin community behind it, especially with school involvement, is what we need.
[20:56] <bencrisford> there is no sense spending so much time on this, when there is a release in under a month, and everyone present here seems to be out entire following :P
[20:56] <highvoltage> mhall119: similar projects exist without it though, such as k12ltsp for example. I think "need" may be a strong word in that case, but besides that I agree
[20:56] <bencrisford> we need to focus on contributors leading up to release, we need to focus on marketing after the release, and then go on to QA
[20:57] <mhall119> highvoltage: maybe it's a strong word, but I don't see much rollout of k12ltsp either
[20:57] <highvoltage> well, we're almost out of time. is there anything else we /need/ to discuss before taking it over to #edubuntu?
[20:57] <Lns> mhall119: there's much more out there than you realize
[20:57] <mhall119> I have one
[20:57] <mhall119> I started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppTemplate
[20:58] <mhall119> to create standardized wiki pages for each of Edubuntu's programs
[20:58] <mhall119> including games and admin tools
[20:58] <Lns> *applause* :) love that idea mhall119
[20:58] <mhall119> I'd like to get feedback on the template before I start using to to make actual pages
[20:59] <mhall119> then I'll probably pre-populate them with info from their respective packages
[20:59] <mhall119> I had originally intended to do this as part of UGJ, but things came up
[21:00] <Lns> mhall119: i have a small list of apps, links to project pages and short descriptions at the bottom of http://blog2.logicalnetworking.net/?page_id=269
[21:00] <mhall119> highvoltage: where's the seed file for edubuntu 10.04?
[21:00] <Lns> maybe we can use info from that to populate the wiki pages
[21:01] <mhall119> Lns: probably, are those all in Edubuntu?
[21:01] <highvoltage> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.lucid
[21:01] <Lns> mhall119: probably not default install, but they're available to install yes
[21:01] <Lns> err, besides typingmaster
[21:01] <mhall119> Lns: I'm focusing only on the edubuntu packages for this
[21:02] <Lns> mhall119: default install packages?
[21:02] <mhall119> or those in the edubuntu- metapackages
[21:03] <mhall119> I know people often ask what games edubuntu includes
[21:04] <mhall119> this way we can have them all on a list on the wiki, with links to more info on each one
[21:04] <highvoltage> for 10.10 I guess we should also revisit our age groups and categories and perhaps have some new (additional) meta-packages if needed
[21:04] <Lns> wasn't there an exaustive list on edubuntu.org?
[21:04] <highvoltage> Lns: not with all the details that mhall119 is after
[21:04] <mhall119> highvoltage: well I hope to collect age recommendations as part of this
[21:05] <highvoltage> mhall119: I installed Ubuntu in 2 prison environments before...
[21:05] <mhall119> um.....ok
[21:05] <highvoltage> mhall119: and some of the primary school software turned out to be really useful for adults with really low literacy rates
[21:06] <mhall119> true
[21:06] <mhall119> age isn't always going to be accurate to an individual
[21:06] <Lns> jailbuntu?
[21:06] <highvoltage> mhall119: so sometimes software that looks really suited for kids could be really useful for some kinds of adult basic education as well
[21:06] <mhall119> my son is 6, but he's intellectually above that
[21:07] <Lns> highvoltage: of course but we've got to fit our own image of educational based ubuntu
[21:07] <highvoltage> with you as a father, I can believe that :)
[21:07] <mhall119> but in that case, I know to look for 8-10 recommendations for him
[21:07] <mhall119> highvoltage: I wish I were as smart as him at 6
[21:07] <mhall119> at any rate, I know it won't be accurate, but it will be reliable enough on average to be useful
[21:07] <Lns> if we could get real world teachers/parents to give input on the programs, that would be most accurate
[21:08] <highvoltage> mhall119: *nod* just something I thought I'd mention to keep in mind perhaps
[21:08] <mhall119> Lns: that's why I included a User Comments section
[21:08] <bencrisford> when different languages are used on tuxtype its effective for practising mfl i found
[21:08] <bencrisford> its similar to the games we used to play in french at school :P
[21:08] <highvoltage> we're 8 minutes over, shall we move to #edubuntu?
[21:08] <mhall119> so someone can say "I know this says it's for kids, but I installed it in a prison and it really worked well for the adults"
[21:08] <bencrisford> highvoltage: probably should, before we get told off
[21:09] <highvoltage> bencrisford: heh, doesn't seem like we're running over another meeting at least
[21:10] <bencrisford> highvoltage: no :P fortunately, but we should probably
[21:10] <highvoltage> ok, meeting adjourned! Thanks everyone, next weekly meeting is same time and place.
[21:11] <bencrisford> cant wait :) :P
[21:11] <Lns> highvoltage: you forgot the *bong*
[21:12]  * Lns likes hearing the *bong* at the end of meetings
[21:13] <highvoltage> *bong*
[21:13] <Lns> haha thx
[21:13] <bencrisford> :)